boring poll

death to everyone who votes 2 lowest options o/

3*

ssssssst
heh

poormode community to the rescue!

Spare some change, brah?

i dunno
i hope they bring something new or alter some components that might encourage players who have played quake3 in the past to switch over- i understand there's no chance of a major overhaul of the game, but y'know, quake 3 already exists.
so yeh, lets hope it isn't a carbon copy of q3 :) otherwise i can't see many people downloading AND continuing to play the game :(

it'll suck but I guess it's good

"Quake sux, Kwari ftw"

lol

CPM > vq3 !
Instant switch and air control FTW ! :D

yeah ! my trolly poll !

You def need an option like "If it is cq3 or evolved vq3 gameplay il support it"

Some poor options in poll alright. I'm looking forward to Quake: Live anyway.

Never really played vQ3 online (new enough to Q3) but loving CPMA!

ez.

CPM movements owns vq3 anyway

If quake live kills the CPM movement, i'll leave q3..!

what? :D

yea the CPM movement, if this isn't in Quake Live anymore i'll quit...

what? :D

It never had CPM movement as far as I know...

It's pity that we lost you.

No sarcasm.

can you stop reply to my post ?

What? :D

Stopped.

ashr voted: Quake sux, Kwari ftw

CPM movements owns vq3 anyway & War§ow anyone?

What a stupid poll, Quake Live isn't even out yet :)

my original poll header was "It seems Quake Live could basicaly be a vQ3 copy", so blame Sujoy \o/ (oh he wrote it at the end of the main post, didn't see, my bad)
anyway QL has beta testers, beta testers have tongues, and afaik they say QL basically is vQ3

didn't know anyone was beta testing it already or that they said anything, any links?

some posts on esr (the guy is in guantanamo now) and personally some talking on irc
but hey, QL could have changed a lot since, I dunno I'm not beta testing it so far

War§ow anyone?

yep :)

I really hope I am wrong but I do not think Deathmatch FPS games are going anywhere but the graveyard.

when do we res?

Hope ESR site will last at least 20 years from now - then we all will be able to see how we were wrong...

Deathmatch seems bizarrely popular on consoles (ie Halo 3/Gears of War). Which is weird, but possibly because they haven't gone through a long enough cycle of DM games to get bored of them and move onto CS/BF style 'tactical' games.

Edit: Oh and might also be because a huge proportion of console servers seem to be peer to peer...DM is about the only game mode that works when you can only have six or so people.

im losing my interest in QL if something doesn't happen really soon

voted warsow anyone?

QL will be a vq3 copy, but you guys dont understand what id is trying to do with this game.

QL is aimed at the current generation of Online FPS players. They are trying to rebuild brand recognition amongst this new generation of players, so that their 'next gen' Arena DM game can be successful. They are essentially repackaging Q3 in order to hype the brand aswell as test a new business model i guess. Its cheap and smart so well played id, but this game really isnt for those experienced with quake...

I think they will bury quake into a "cheap game" image by doing so (and by "cheap" I don't mean not expensive)

I don't think there will be many newcomers. Not many people outside the quake community seem to know about the game.
But it could be changed

honestly, aside from the armor fuckup vq3 ITSELF isn't "bad" - it's just bad for SKILLED players.
given that QL is by definition aimed at low-skill players (because otherwise they'd already BE playing some form of q3) there's probably 6 months or so of "life" in it even if it IS just "vq3 online".

Are you allowed to say things like this when you're an id employee?

what.

cpm.
or wsw.

I want the option "Quake Live, as all DM/skill or fast paced games, will be a failure"

go cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with a herring before

mind the point of the poll isn't to know if you expect a failure or a successful game number-of-players-wise, it's about what you think of the game if it's basically vq3 old hat for free

You know, the thing is that I don't see much of Quake Live hype in any other website. I think only Quakers are aware of Quake Live's existence.

i see many sites posting about quake live when i google it

?

Google shows a small bump in news volume when they announced the beta signups and a sharp jump in searches followed by a decline straight back down.

id released only a couple of screens, plus there are no ads, and the game isn't in beta yet.

not that i expect much hype on the release day but you are not making any sense

The buzz everyone is expecting isn't there. There isn't much news outside of placed that would have it anyway.

well, last time i checked, id's PR guy wasn't arrogant enough to generate news out of his arse. unlike most of his fellow colleagues.

...so?

there is nothing astonishing to show (so far), hence lack of hype and 1000's of articles

...so? Did you even read what I originally wrote?

i did. there will be some sort of hype outside our community when it gets released

Thanks for pointing that out when I said nothing about it.

good morning

i need a beta invite, in exange i can provide cigs and midget girls

The learning curve in q3 is too big for newbies, or rather most q3 players have been playing it for years and new players don't even get a look in. It needs match making, which ql has! \o/

The learning curve in tennis is too big for newbies, or rather most tennis players have been playing it for years and new players don't even get a look in.

I don't play tennis with random people that could be 10 times worse than me or 100 times better. I only play with friends.

That's generally a limitation of real sports, and is actually a good thing that internet games allow that. It just helps to know you're playing someone that good. There's nothing preventing people playing Quake only against friends in exactly the same way as at a sports club, but in internet games you can swim out of the lagoon into the deeper waters where sharks dwell.

That's what Quake Live is trying to address? Adding actual persistent stats and matchmaking that makes sense. So, if it works out alright, the newbies will never have to get tossed in the deep end and can stay in noobville for as long as they like.

its not a q3 copy, it IS q3.

The winning combo that can attract some new players while keeping seasoneds playing, in my humble opinion, would be (im not talking about the matchmaking, update support, etc that everybody agrees)

+Quake3 vq3 @ 125fps fixed physics
+Import crouchsliding from Quake4 to add depth of movement for seasoned players
+Nerf the rail a little bit, dont know how maybe proportional distance damage, 90hp, little longer reload time, etc
+Add at least 4 1v1 maps, 2 tdm and 2 ctf. But not stupid maps, get lukin, swelt or other great mappers to make them.
+Add some advanced gfx options for graphic whores
+something else i will add in the form of an edit

Try

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1478234

http://www.promode.org/

cpm physics are fundamentaly different from vq3, you like it or not, but its very different. By adding crouchsliding to vq3 you add depth of movement and accel while nerfing the posibility of cpm fans to argue that its slower move-wise, add that to the physic model that has always been the most played one during more than 8 years of existence of the game, and you have a winning combo. Ofc if whiners PTFG instead of spamming forums about their little whishes while splitting the community turning us nearly irrelevant. You get what you deserve, and sadly extinction is our most probably destiny cause everybody is thinking in their little advantages instead of searching the big picture. Like countries with internal wars, when you have to battle vs someone from outside, you realize you should have been closer inside, cause now your future could be pretty f%ked up. We automatically lose the right to whine tomorrow when all our kids will play is "guitar hero 6" and "halo 2020: noob combat" and "Sims: universe".

you didn't quite understand my point

crouch sliding is the ultimate in gimmicky gameplay additions.

vq3 of course

It's a tie now! Who will break it? D=

HAHAHAHAGAHAHAHAHAGAGHGHgAHAHAHAHAHA

cpm movement kicks the shit out of vq3 anyday

Vice versa makes sense!
I know that strafe jumps and RJ are not realistic even, but cpma movement just goes way too far. It is totally unrealistic. Why need to touch ground anymore at all?

For me: vq3/osp-125-fps-movement (NOT the crippled "vq3" movement in cpma!) > cpma.

For you: Microsoft Flight Simulator > cpma.

who the fuck cares about realism in games ?

Why don't stick with pong graphics for tennis games?

now thats an epic fail as a reply for my question.

In the first place your question was a fail. I shouldn't tried to answer it. :/

no, it wasnt.

Just think of the same argument coming from someone who plays a realism shooter. "WTF Q3 YOU RUN AT 100MPH? WHO NEEDS VEHICLES LOL?!!1 AND YOU DON'T DIE FROM XPLOSINS!! THAT'S JUST TOO FAR" There is no such thing as moderate unrealism and your argument is pretty silly.

since when did realism even have any remote relevance in a game like quake 3? for christs sake. your jumping around with rocketlaunchers, railguns, etc. while going through portals and falling far enough to easily break your legs...

+ hunter's tits don't even bounce... yet...

to the Quake Zero sandbox thread!

Sorry mate, you have to wait for Quake 5 for this...

i just can't believe the stupidity of all the germans in the q3 scene.

read: vq3/osp-scene.

Must be a personaly insufficiency on your side.

so, you tell me i should believe in the stupidity?

what

You should consider, that maybe YOU are stupid, not the others.
That's prolly hard to keep, but not totally impossible. Especially when "all" others have to be stupid, to make you the only smart guy.

Hmm, good point.












Nah, j/k. I'm pretty sure german OSP/vq3'ers are pretty stupid. Especially the ones who post here.
See, you don't even understand the difference between CPMA and CPM. You're running your mouth about how bad CPMA/CPM is, yet you didn't even bother to try CPM. You say how bad the physic changes in CPMA are and your only argument is: "ZOMG, Y CHAENGE?!?11"
At least you try to sound like you know what you're talking about. That's something.

your only argument is: "ZOMG, Y CHAENGE?!?11"

Is that birthdate real in your profil?
Sorry, no time to chat with a tween thinking he is the middle of the earth and using childish leet speach. :/

i just summarized your arguments in one sentence. looks really stupid, doesn't it?

"You should consider, that maybe YOU are stupid, not the others."

Hold on to that thought when you consider the opinions of most other users here...

Take a look at the vote, smart guy. ;)

"the vote"?

I wasn't talking about anything specific in this case.

Oh, sorry. So I'll take it just as a shot for a cheap affront from behind. No problem.

vq3 movement kicks the shit out of cpm anyday

very creative

Yes, maybe a CS player would think this way. But Q3 is a fantasy shooter, so this kind of things are match with the game.
But just because something is not realistic, means it can be exaggerate without a limit?
With your argument physics making the ego fly thru the map would be superior to one where the ego has to jump?
Perfect Quake would be this kind of physics with the weapons from mod excessive then? I don't think so. Physics have to match in the "quake universe". And that's what fails with CPMA physics.
It's just a different game then.
Remeber, even 125-fps-movement and strafe jumping was a bug in the beginning. It's common now and that is fine for me.
id-software saw this the same way (as the majority quake players) and implemented strafe jumping in Q3. In some test versinons it was capped on two if I recall it correct.
With the 125-fps-bug they put pmove_fixed cvar in, which simulate it and almost every tourney and server cut it to com_maxfps-125-movement (NOT 333-fps-move. or even higher). What do this tell us?
125-fps-physic is like Q3 should be played and as it matches the "quake universe". its the upper limit and even more as the player and id could expect. Trying to push that limit even higher makes no sens, thats not Quake even more -- CPMA-movement is FAR beyond this.

CPM is all the best features of all the quake games. Q1/Q2/Q3 movement all combined with retweaked Q3 weapons. The movement isn't just there for fun, it also helps to balance the weapons and adds a myriad new strategies and tactics. There's a limit to how much meddling you can do before the tweaking has no influence on gameplay or to a point where the game no longer even closely resembles what it was, but CPM has only done modification to the point that would enhance the gameplay that is already there in VQ3.

Well, thats your opinion. I do not see it this way. I like vq3 and it gives me the most fun. Both, playing it and watching it.
And knowing that vq3 had (and have I think) a bigger player basis, I may not be the only 1. I know, that argument is week, bacause then CS would be the best FPS. But thats comparing different games. And -- as you see it -- CPMA is the better Quake. So comparing this two makes sens to me.
For me vq3 is the prefect setting. I can frag and be fragged, there are tons of moves I can do, decision I have to make in just a second ...
I see it that way: "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -- Antoine de Saint Exupéry RIP

VQ3 players already want to play CQ3 instead because VQ3 is broken and CPM players are about equal in number to VQ3 players. Though, if you also include Warsow which is nearly the same, advanced movement is more popular than VQ3 movement by far.

The strategy with VQ3 movement is much more limited. While CPM-style movement may allow you to fix mistakes much more quickly, it also allows you make tons of new ones. It sounds like you haven't given CPM enough of a chance and you should try to examine the gameplay a little more in-depth.

Though, if you also include Warsow which is nearly the same

Isn't it more like painkiller these days since the 0.4 release? the movement I mean :o

I think most people hated it more than anything and they still use the old movement.

No, the new movement is still more like QuakeWorld than like PK, just with simplified key presses.

As for the discussion (which messed up, so I reply anywhere): I do think Q3 movement represents Quake better than QW movement. As I do think Q3 movement/gameplay is better suited for competition. DM gameplay design is a matter of where you put the accent. In CPMA (wsw too) the accent is put in reaction speeds and speed of movement, over aim and oponnent anticipation which Q3 accents. While the CPM/wsw design is crazier and funnier (at least for me), it fails when trying to represent the esential skills of a generic FPS gamer (imo), better done by Q3 gameplay.

Not to mention iD already chose Q3 gameplay back in the day, and it worked great.

Being new to Quake via Quake Live, I'm completely confused on all these game types being thrown around. CPM/CPMA/CQ3/OSP ?? Someone care to summerize quickly what they are for me. (sorry if it seems dumb but again I'm new to Quake).

CPMA - Challenge ProMode Arena = standard mod
vQ3 = standard quake3 gameplay
cQ3 = tweaked vQ3 gameplay
CPM = completely different gameplay

OSP = outdated mod.

"I know, that argument is week, bacause then CS would be the best FPS. But thats comparing different games."

"Physics have to match in the "quake universe". And that's what fails with CPMA physics. It's just a different game then."

Your points are not in agreement.

Let me try to clarify your post's points, and I am assuming you're replying to post #71:
"Q3 is a fantasy shooter (correct) so the physics should match the game" - you are saying the same thing twice, to wit: the milk must be milk.

"Something that is not realistic must still have sensible limits" - correct but you make no attempt to demonstrate when this limit is sensible and where exaggerated other than by the implication that 125 Hz physics is this correct value... you're only stating an opinion.

"With your argument physics making the ego fly thru the map would be superior to one where the ego has to jump?"

As far as I can see this is entirely your own strawman using your own analogy, you made the reference to not touching the ground and then to MS Flight Simulator.

"It's just a different game then."

Statement of the obvious, no reasoning to back up any implied relative worth.

"Remeber, even 125-fps-movement and strafe jumping was a bug in the beginning. It's common now and that is fine for me."

That one bug has been accepted is not a justification for accepting another, strafe jumping demonstrably makes the game better, there is variation in time from A to B based on skill and more interaction with the level layout. I think you'd have a hard time explaining why 125 FPS is better for gameplay aside from statements of opinion.

"id-software saw this the same way (as the majority quake players) and implemented strafe jumping in Q3. In some test versinons it was capped on two if I recall it correct."

id didn't see this the same way, Carmack wanted to remove or limit strafe jumping, hence the 2 jump limit. This complete lack of understanding as to the importance of strafe jumping should be a strong hint as to why you shouldn't take id settings or even derived bug values as gospel.

"With the 125-fps-bug they put pmove_fixed cvar in, which simulate it and almost every tourney and server cut it to com_maxfps-125-movement (NOT 333-fps-move. or even higher). What do this tell us?"

This limit was set by arQon although 125 FPS was 'standard' before that because it was the biggest available rounding error on the computers of the day. The limit was set when computers started reaching a stable 333 FPS and allowing bridge to rail in one jump from standing. Had computers been hitting 333 FPS from day 1 then this would be the standard or id would have fixed the rounding error completely. It tells you it's a somewhat arbitrary value that abuses a bug most effectively on the computers of the day. The default FPS value is 85 and the physics engine is designed around 85 FPS physics, as demonstrated by the jump pad destinations, what does this tell you?

"125-fps-physic is like Q3 should be played and as it matches the "quake universe"."

Completely baseless and by any sensible definition of the Quake universe (such as the maps) wrong.

"its the upper limit and even more as the player and id could expect."

Already covered why this is not an arguement in your favour.

"Trying to push that limit even higher makes no sens, thats not Quake even more -- CPMA-movement is FAR beyond this."

Strictly CPMA movements are less than this as they do not have the additional rounding error acceleration and reduced gravity effects of 125 FPS; however in terms of raw speed and ground acceleration you are correct if you mean CPM movement specifically. You've not explained why the way that CPM movement pushes the limits make no sense, they technically fit the maps better than the bugged 125 FPS movement.

Well, long post and I am now to tired to aswer it in detail.
For a short one: Call it tradition. It could all be different, right. But it developed as it did. And it has been aprooved in countless games by countless players.
Games are still exciting when good players meet, right? And I do also think skill can still be advanced.
I do not see the point in changing it. See also Starcraft.

Starcraft changed several dozen times during it's creation.

You do not see the point in changing it? So, you think games should not be updated to improve the gameplay?
Also: CPMA IS NOT CPM.
If you fail in understanding this, you probably do not deserve to be discussed with.

I do not need an update, it functions just fine.
So it's not improoving anything, it is a regression.
What about changing Mona Lisa a bit to make her smile even better?
I know that about cpma and cpm. But I jcome in contact with this useless bastarded mod just every few month here on ES. Sorry, it's too minor, to invest the time to write it always correct.
I think with the context it's always clear what I refering to. If you don't get it, well then I should better invest my time in something else.
As a side note, both cpm with and without "a" < VQ3 ;)

it's a regression, because you don't like it. i get what you're trying to say. why don't you just stick with OSP and leave people who are interested in improving a game alone with your utter useless comments? nobody forces you to play a game, you don't like.

your Mona Lisa comparison is the dumbest shit i read today btw.

also you fail to understand, that if OSP would still be in development, it would look exactly like CPMA does.

Kid, did you read the topic? And did you understand it? I belief you now, that you think "all" german OSP players are stupid. At least you brought a smile on my face. So you was not totally sensless on this world ;)
But now I'm done with you. Bye!

awww. :-(

you started bashing CPMA for what it is. don't try to turn this around on me, "kid".

hf playing with bots in OSP. :)

"But just because something is not realistic, means it can be exaggerate without a limit?"

You said it all there, and i completely agree. For me the equilibrium between run and walk from q3 is more interesting than the continuous bunny whoring from cpm. At the end its just taste. vq3 for me, thanks.

TRY QUAKEWORLD NOOB THEN YOU LL KNOW THE REAL QUAKE UNIVERSE LOOOOL

Thats true, never played cpma regular.
I do not see the point. And I do not like nearly flying around the map.
Also I think its sensless to count other games to supporters of the cpma-movement. As I could do so even with all the mods based on vq3-movement, "vq3"-cpma, OpenArena ...
And at the peak of vq3, there allready was cpma -- but who played it?
Sure cpma gives you new options. But also prevent others.
For example: The fast weapon change makes fraging easier and running harder depending on the situation.
Well, flat out, as I said befor: vq3 is perfect, or nearly perfect for me, I will not give cpma a chance.
No need for me to change something as big as cpma do.
Ill stay with the original (or change to QL as it is nearly the same) There I had all the exciting moments, knowing the people, saw the popular players and follow theyr demos and tourneys.
cpma is just another game.
For you it's perfect, for me it's like changing a masterpiece of art.
It's perfect as it is with all it's limitations.
Allowing a boxer to use his feet opens new moves/strategies also. But I prefer boxing over kickboxing to watch on TV any time.

I do not see the point. And I do not like nearly flying around the map.

Strafe jumping isn't much different, actually. While the movement does open up a lot of new possibilities for vertical maneuvers, the core gameplay is still very much the same.

Also I think its sensless to count other games to supporters of the cpma-movement.

Warsow adopted it's movement system from CPM (which simply adopted it's movement from Q1/Q2/Q3) with other techniques as well. I'm simply trying to point out that there is certainly a market for this style of gameplay and it should be some indication as to what players want. If it were so much worse than VQ3, why have so many VQ3 players left for Warsow/CPM?

could do so even with all the mods based on vq3-movement, "vq3"-cpma, OpenArena

Actually, openarena is just a port. You can still play CPMA in it, as far as I remember.

And at the peak of vq3, there allready was cpma -- but who played it?

The general population hadn't seen the flaws with the game design until the promode team helped to advance the gameplay. While VQ3 hasn't changed at all in the past 10 years, CPM has been changing and evolving constantly to keep up with the players. As the mod improved, so did the number of players.

For example: The fast weapon change makes fraging easier and running harder depending on the situation.

This is completely untrue. While you can change weapons faster, the movement easily makes up for it. You really need to give it more time to see how it really works.

Well, flat out, as I said befor: vq3 is perfect, or nearly perfect for me, I will not give cpma a chance.

Now you're just being obtuse. This is what causes the general CPM/VQ3 bitterness to begin with. If more people gave CPM the proper evaluation it deserved, we wouldn't have to argue about things like xerp and 125fps physics. It's no fun playing alone, and stubborn views on gameplay hurt the community as a whole. While VQ3 has it's shortcomings, the players are to blame for the decline.

very good

and
Warsow adopted it's movement system from CPM (which simply adopted it's movement from Q1/Q2/Q3) with other techniques as well. I'm simply trying to point out that there is certainly a market for this style of gameplay and it should be some indication as to what players want. If it were so much worse than VQ3, why have so many VQ3 players left for Warsow/CPM?


how many do paly CS although it has no movement at all?
so give up ur "o movement so good" arguments

Actually, CS does.

yes tell me how much movemnet and much aim?

Movement and aim are both unimportant in CS.

Playing the devils advocate, I like to quote you: "You really need to give it more time to see how it really works". ;)
I definitely like Q3 WAY more than CS (which I do not play, but did some times on LAN), and I also like to make fun about CS players. But saying that aiming and movement in CS is not important is (sorry) just straight BS.
The magic formula in-between freedom and rules makes a great game. See chess: Would it be better if all chess pieces could walk like the queen, would football be better, if all could use their hands?

Q3 _developed_ over the years, thats right. Like every game do which is played for a long time competitive.
Like tennis, where a jumped serve was not common in the early years. Today it's ordinary.
But cpma is not a grown development of the game Quake (3), it's a revolution. In other words: It's a different game. Which you and others may prefer. For me it's useless.

If you think movement or aim is important in CS, you simply do not know how to play.

yes important is only how short ur penis is- the shorter the better the player

Nice one. Spend longer thinking of your next insult.

100% agreed.
imho cs is "positional" game.

Actually aim matters just as much in the top tier equally skilled gameplay where enemies awareness and locational skills are at the highest level. No one can perfectly know where and when to be, and thats when having quick reflexes and accuracy counts.

It's certainly something that you need to improve if you're on the same level of strategy as your opponent, but strategy always comes first.

Because CS is slower movement, so the skill is more in positional play. Go play some powerhouse chess players and maybe you'll actually understand limited character movement does not define a game. It is rather, only one element that makes up the game's balance.

your posts are a joke

Thanks, one [+] for my little boy. ;)

cpma = mod
cpm = gameplay

nevermind

maybe you should wait till all the interesting stuff is implemented. :d

2 years after final release ?

i hope they have more under wraps

how about the stuff with which it gets hyped everywhere... (matchmaking, stats, rankings, community features etc.)

can you give us more infos pls :D ?

nope

Arent you breaking the NDA by saying that?

What did he said, please?
He killed his post. :(

Nothing precise really, nevermind.

he said he was already bored of trying the beta
and I say ql is gonna fail so fucking hard that q5 arena on idtech5 will never see the light of day.

Thank you! Is he a cpma fanboy? In that case I would reckon this statement as positive, or do he like VQ3? Which would make it negative.

you ask him, I'm under the law of weak troll nda

im not a fanboy of boredom that's for sure.
even Quake2 feels more interesting to me than zzzvq3.

Let me try to clarify your post's points, and I am assuming you're replying to post #71:
"Q3 is a fantasy shooter (correct) so the physics should match the game" - you are saying the same thing twice, to wit: the milk must be milk.

You quote me wrong there. I tried to say, that unrealistic movement fits to Q3, because it's not a realistic setting. But just it's not realistic means not, that _everything_ fits. Even a jedi knight can not fly like Superman. ;)

"Something that is not realistic must still have sensible limits" - correct but you make no attempt to demonstrate when this limit is sensible and where exaggerated other than by the implication that 125 Hz physics is this correct value... you're only stating an opinion.

It's more than that. It's a grown standard. It's a wide accepted limit, by id-soft (adding pmove, not removeing this bug, like they did with throu floor damage), servers and tourneys (capping it nearly everywhere at 125).

That one bug has been accepted is not a justification for accepting another, strafe jumping demonstrably makes the game better, there is variation in time from A to B based on skill and more interaction with the level layout. I think you'd have a hard time explaining why 125 FPS is better for gameplay aside from statements of opinion.

Well, that's an academic discussion, because it's already in the game since years. It makes the game fast (fast enough, not too fast). If just the cpma dictator didn't tried to force players of VQ3 to a regression in physic (accepting that which once was a bug now is a regular part of the game), we could have the paradise on earth, by unite a big majority of the VQ3 community on _ONE_ tourney mod. Instead he did split it even more. Sad this is!

id didn't see this the same way, Carmack wanted to remove or limit strafe jumping, hence the 2 jump limit. This complete lack of understanding as to the importance of strafe jumping should be a strong hint as to why you shouldn't take id settings or even derived bug values as gospel.

Well, that's what tests are for, isn't it? And even id recognized the need for it. Id's decisions are not the bible for me. I thought it was a mistake to remove throu floor damage from Q3.
I still think it can be fun and has something to do with skill, if it is added wisely on some spots of a map. Also to change some things (including physic) from PR to PR, because that split the community into parts still today.
Changing a running game is a _very_ sensitive thing to handle.
That's why cpma will never have the majority of the VQ3/OSP players and even the fake "VQ3"-cpma-mod do not the trick.

This limit was set by arQon although 125 FPS was 'standard' before that because it was the biggest available rounding error on the computers of the day. The limit was set when computers started reaching a stable 333 FPS and allowing bridge to rail in one jump from standing. Had computers been hitting 333 FPS from day 1 then this would be the standard or id would have fixed the rounding error completely. It tells you it's a somewhat arbitrary value that abuses a bug most effectively on the computers of the day. The default FPS value is 85 and the physics engine is designed around 85 FPS physics, as demonstrated by the jump pad destinations, what does this tell you?

It tells me, that you think you can see the future. ;)
If that would automatic become standard, which was archived from day one, 125-fps-move. would never had become standard.
And if become that standard, which is the upper limit at a time when a bug is in use, 333-fps-move. would be the standard for today. So what tells us the situation today, with the in fact standard of 125-fps-movement?
It tell us, we had at least 5 opportunities at that time:

a) delete the bug -- back to 85-fps-movement
b) cap it at 76 -- higher jumps than 85 but lower as 125
c) cap it at 125
d) cap it at 333
e) do nothing -- the sky is the limit

Option "c" is the survivel of the fittest. *Do not mess with the laws of nature!* ;)

dude... use reply

It's more than that. It's a grown standard. It's a wide accepted limit, by id-soft (adding pmove, not removeing this bug, like they did with throu floor damage), servers and tourneys (capping it nearly everywhere at 125).

Yeah, and the world used to be flat, too.

If just the cpma dictator didn't tried to force players of VQ3 to a regression in physic (accepting that which once was a bug now is a regular part of the game), we could have the paradise on earth, by unite a big majority of the VQ3 community on _ONE_ tourney mod. Instead he did split it even more. Sad this is!

Dictatorship means that you don't have a choice. You are free to play OSP or make your own mod. Obviously, if people would prefer to play VQ3 under CPMA, it has it's merits.

Id's decisions are not the bible for me. I thought it was a mistake to remove throu floor damage from Q3. I still think it can be fun and has something to do with skill, if it is added wisely on some spots of a map.

You give credit to thru-floors damage for tactical superiority, yet you argue that things that are "too unrealistic" are bad. Again, there is no such thing as moderate unrealism. The gameplay is what matters, not the semantics.

That's why cpma will never have the majority of the VQ3/OSP players and even the fake "VQ3"-cpma-mod do not the trick.

The majority of VQ3 players ARE using CPMA. Most of the players on OSP servers are bots.

You're only making VQ3 players look worse. Give up.

Dictatorship means that you don't have a choice

Where can I choose 125-fps-physics?
Locking the original OSP from development and killing the most popular physics IS dictatorship.

You give credit to thru-floors damage for tactical superiority, yet you argue that things that are "too unrealistic" are bad. Again, there is no such thing as moderate unrealism. The gameplay is what matters, not the semantics.

Throu-floors damage was -- like 125-physics -- part of the game at some time. Remember Blue and his games on T4?
Was used in tourneys, accepted as a feature by the community.
At that time -- where OSP was not in the hand of an dictator -- they choose to do exactly the right thing: Let players vote it off or on.
Maybe because it was not voteable in Q3 stand alone, it nearly extinct till today. But I can remember the community begging id-software to let it in the game.
For the reality aspect of it: I really thought it a step in the right direction of an destructible environment (which was a popular feature and often debated at this time) Throu-floors worked only on thin floors, only with heavy weapons -- this bug was very logic out of the box.
But life is not prefect. And even I think it was a bad decision by id-soft and a sad fact that it is nearly dead today, I take it as a non-survivor and for the sake of the purity and unity of the game and its community.

The majority of VQ3 players ARE using CPMA. Most of the players on OSP servers are bots

Well, maybe.
But not at FFA, which I like a lot for a relaxing time besides 1v1.
And not because of the physics.
And if you are honest to your self, you will know: The first day 125-physics are voteable on cpma-"vq3", the bastard-mixed-physics will be exterminated from the servers.

Edit: Linked this post to where it belongs (reply to 139)

Stick with what has worked and thats VQ3. If you want some far out gameplay experience play a different mod/game THX!

what worked with q3 actually was :
-having a good engine
-the game was made for multiplayer (not like other quake which are firstly solo player games)
-released when internet connections started becoming common, but the market was not yet submerged with tons of mp games : easy market

that's why q3 was successful compared to other quake (talking about multiplayer success), beside having a ok gameplay
I doubt releasing vq3 once again now could be a success again ; no actually I'm sure it will fail, hard

Seeing as how cpma vq3 isnt that hot, something new will have to be created. The only solution.

I think the same way. 100% agree.

umm... quake live is SUPPOSED to be a vq3 copy... or at least quake zero, unless they are different (don't think so; just name change)

just realized I've forgotten to had the best answer of all :

-fuck this copy of vq3, it will obviously bring q3 community major split

and
-woohoo double q3 community btw ql players base's explode exponentialy, I'm a believer on crack

I have to add this for my negative karma problems, sad story -my brother died that way

"-fuck this copy of vq3, it will obviously bring q3 community major split"

this hasn't happened already?

cpm and vq3 are mods, their communities still are on the same game

Vanilla q3 is... Quake 3 Arena :D, and CPMA (with cpm or vq3 gameplay) is the mod ;).

Or maybe I didn't get what you wanted to say xD.

anyway, the sad story is that cpm gameplay > q3 gameplay and ql gameplay = q3's one :(

It seems like you guys forgot what purpose QuakeLive serves: a betatest for ID's new way of playing a game (live ads, playing in browser, implented 'gtv').

If you expect something better than a 1999 Quake 3 with some extra maps...you will be dissapointed. No doubt it will be fun to play, at least for a short period of time, but..nah. This is not going to be what we want and wish for.

exactly... and their q5 is gonna be worst; on a bad engine for these types of games (like the d3 engine) on top of the fact that it won't run well on most computers which = less audience.

the quake franchise is done with. Quake3 is the pinnacle of DM the way its been played since doom, minus a few bad elements. There is no where else to go. The only way to have a new game of some substance is to redefine DM the way it's played from the ground up... otherwise you are just tinkering with the already near-perfect balance q3 has made for itself after over a decade of changes and tweaks to weapons, speed, etc. since Doom. It's why new games since who have messed with the formula come out less than stellar.

What DM really needs is a truly original game, or a q3 re-release. Unfortunately we all know ID is incompetent, and this 'q3 re-release' in the form of quake live will probably be much like that described in the above comment.

promode sucks.

no u

no u & promode

no u.

I hope we can get some fresh vq3 action out of QL with many new players. The cpm players stay with q3 and the endless discussions which game is better are over.

Btw is it possible anytime that cpm(or cpma whatever) could be released like nquake ?

I think they had been talking about CPMA-standalone for a long time now

Ye, but having their comunity whinning for a extremely minor change like the item icons... I don't think it will be posible to complete under those conditions.

They whine, but they live with it. At least for now...

Sure, but it makes you wonder what will happen when they start replacing all textures, all players models and all sounds. If the icons were a test, the feedback isn't precisely encouraging to work hard on the rest.

conclusion: play warsow

kwari has best female models ive seen in games sofar.

Quake Live should be good for bridging the gap between newbs and vets. If newbs play QL, start to really enjoy the game, they can then go through the IRC maze and constant snubbing by vets.

Still believe...

what

what the-

Kind of funny how much energy I put in this discussion in the hope for a secound life for genius Quake 3. And what was it good for? A crippled bastard, family friendly without gibs but with ads. What a joke.
At least the id-sellout to cell games and ZeniMax Media is a good redemption for me. Rott in hell, id and QL.

pity