Both PM players are nursing a semi already.

talk shit get hit

the Warsow community has his hand down his pants too.

I love the particle effects in the explosions. This is how i imagined QL 2.0 or Q5:Arena so to speak would look like. Of course, this needs a lot of work. I hope the Weapons and player models dont end up making the game feel too "Warsowy" so to speak. I love, love the feeling of nice heavyness of Q3, it's perfect, as opossed to the "clumpsy heavyness" effect of Q4. On the other hand, Warsow feels way too light. Q3 hit the sweet spot there. For example, the sounds on here are too lame, too light on the Warsowy side. Hopefully someone gets what I mean.

Also please, gore (gibs) and players leaning left right back upwards when moving faster like in Q3. In Q4 they made their torsos static and it lacked that coolness factor to it.

Well, *I* get what you mean about heavyness and since I'm part of the development team, that would do yeah?

The feeling you're after will come with further development. All the sounds are placeholders and we haven't started on all the subtle little effects that will make characters (and weapons) feel like they have some decent weight.

Gibs are our current task and are already looking pretty good -- they don't suffer from "player vanishes and is replaced with chunks of meat" problem of Q3. Body parts actually break away from the body.

The leaning is planned when we do our next pass on the animations but it will be subtle -- we don't want to lean players too far out of the hitbox.

But it looks amazing when you are going fast as fuck with a rocket boost in the wall and what not. In defrag movies specially, when you are flying at 1200+ ups the model starts leaning in a very cool way, i dont know if carmack intended it this way but it looks like some matrix shit when you go fast.

Im glad the sounds will be nice and brutal (as opposed to too light (warsow) or WAY too brutal like QW) like in Q3. Also looking forward to some nice gibs. I want to see FFA maps with massive 128 player battles in the server all full of gibs, like when i was a noob enjoying Q3 for the first time but next gen.

ALSO add motion blur in the actual models. I mean, yeah when you move the mouse fast and you get a motion blur effect in the whole screen, thats cool, but, if you get the players having that nice blurryness when they move fast like after being hit by rocket splash and they jump and what not, that's really cool. This is seen specially nicely done in Crysis. When you explode a grenade inside a house or something, you will see the parts flying up in a super nice way with motion blur depending on the speed of the objects. This is some dramatic shit. Or like dodging the rockets when they fly near you. This also reminds me of how you need TO ADD DOPPLER SOUND EFFECT. This was one of the coolest parts of Q3 that, how not? Q4 lacked as well.

PS: Add a way to change to any random nickname you want INGAME, so you can come up with funny stupid nicknames and have fun with friends like in good ol "non-account-tied" times of gaming, but have your "real nickname" (the one you registered with your account) in small font under your ingame name so you can be sure no one is namefaking (like someone playing as cooller when it's not cooller and whatnot)
Also do not put the annoying flood protection thing the way it's set in QL. Let us spam a bit of fun like in Q3 times.

And I have to say although feedback is I'm sure appreciated I don't want these new fps games to be by and large like quake 3. That's my absolute biggest fear with many of these upcoming fps games. I would hate it if veteran players would hold down delvelopers because their said game isn't enough like quake 3.

If you want quake 3, then it exist out there. Play it. Don't expect it to be like that in new FPS games. I notice this is a theme in many of your post in regards to new arena fps games in development.

Just play quake 3 if that is the experience you want. It's lame to go in each thread and state that each new arena fps need sto have this and that from quake 3.

The biggest sin of all is to make a highly derivative game that doesn't have it's own game play , movement and mechanics that make it stand out. Again, as this can't be stressed enough. If you want q3, then play q3. It exist. It's out there and people can already buy it.

Dude what did I said? I said take the best of Q3 and put it Reflex to make it better. How is this bad?

Your comment is out of context there. He wants just one certain feature of the game that has no influence in gameplay whatsoever.

I agree with nemecel on this: that lean looks awesome in defrag, so might as well add it at least only to the defrag type of the game.


With that said, even in the case of important aspects it's always a good idea to take a peek at other games, especially current. In other words, Q3 was quite right in some aspects, so we can take some lessons from there, just like they should with other contemporary games across all genres.

That doesn't necessarily mean making Reflex a clone. For example we certainly don't want it to become CS:GO in terms of gameplay, since for that there's CS:GO itself and some aspects wouldn't make sense without the integrity of the product, but they do lots of things right that should be stolen - take inspiration from.

In q3's case they can take the idea of having a consistent stylistic theme, then satisfying to use weapons (id software as a company does shotguns really well), fitting trickjumps in maps (more like rocket jump spots that after a while players managed to pull off without the rockets), of having gibs, explosions and other means of having satisfaction when fragging.

I was basically responding to this because many of his other previous comments in regards to q3 nostalgia. In this same thread he said he wanted vq3 movement in this game for instance.. I would also add you to this list as well that are not willing to let go of nostalgia.

I've posted many times that it's high time to just stop copypasting Q3 and CPMA. I quite dislike QL (q3) and warsow (cpma) :P

Over the years we have learned that Q3 is our back up plan and that nostalgia does sell, but we have to let go at one point. Reflex (or Reborn) is the point, no matter that the team might take inspiration from some things other games do right. That point was going to be Severity, lol.

LOL. common, all your weapons and movement is already based on nostalgia for this game. Adding a feature like lean is quite insignificant in relation. You can't have it both ways.

"Not being like other games" has nothing to do with it -- the more a player leans, the more inaccurate the hitbox becomes (and we've already designed our characters to be nicely representative of the hitbox).

What shape are the hitboxes? Ever thought about fitting the hit box exactly to the model (so you could shoot between the legs for example)?

The hitboxes are just generic rectangles currently but when we do another pass on gameplay they'll be changed to a capsule shape -- that's the shape the hostile character has been designed around.

Doom used per poly collision detection iirc, q4 did also but not for multiplayer.
Problem is for multiplayer that makes different models have different advantages and makes it stray from twitch raw fps skill, also it's higher workload.
It could cause them to just end up making all the models too damn similar instead, less fun IMO.

Agreed. But it's not because I don't like Q3, it's actually because I love arena FPS games. I want it to success and if Q3 gameplay was to be successful, QL wouldn't of died.

Controversial maybe, but have you considered tilting the hitbox along with them?

leaning will be optional, right? i've never used lean on any of my quake games and don't want to start now ;p

3rd person models lean with speed, e.g. strafing. That's also what causes the 'superman' effect in defrag movies etc at very high speeds. So unless you use cg_playerlean 0 you do use it.

Personally I think quake3's lean animation is really a nice thing about quake. It lets your derive speed in a very subtle way, almost subconsciously. Theoretically it could let a player calculate velocity much faster than making a point to point judgement

A suggestion for gibbing would be to add oil splatter and whatnot. Completely child-safe gore. :p

The robots gibbing will be oil/electricity/sparks/fire but we also have human characters (just not in the game yet).

Nice, really looking forward to this.

Please make me a tester!!

The plasma sound is cool, very pew pew pew pew.

Please take me with him.

/me ties himself up to Rauvz.

I'M GOING WITH YOU TOO !

/me kicks Brainie

Vote failed.

Me aswell, I'm really enjoying this project.

I don't like the plasma, sounds like Doom 3 :(

The visibility of the enemy model is not as good as i imagined it would be. If i could have it my way i would tone down all the bright spots like shiny armor, light under shards even weapon light sometimes is overwhelming.

That said it is only my opinion this far, cuz there is no map artwork yet, so its hard to tell how bright something can be/should be.

Don't worry, the visibility of the enemy model isn't even close to our standard right now, so we're doing stuff about it.

You're right though, its hard to judge that stuff with no real environment art.

Is world builder capable of exporting "brushes" as OBJ? Would be cool for potential LDs to load playtested geometry made with your in-game editor and rebuild whole level in Blender with some serious visuals.

FFS it looks some smooth and efficient, in a way.

That's pretty. Pretty awesome.

Id like to get in to this action too ! \:D/ Where do i sign up ! ? :)

take my money, cool.

+ for ground/floor damage.

- for the fact that it won't stay.

Somewhere on our todo list is another pass of the way splash damage works where we'll stop it going through walls/floors but make sure that a 2inch step doesn't make you magically splash proof.

You could do damage through floors in early Q3. All these Q3Tourney4 games were to fun. You have to guess where is enemy above you and spam..

Floor damage for specific coloured floors/textures so players would try to avoid stepping on that shit and other players would know that the underside of a floor can be attacked.

could be like that. Or thickness of ground could metter.

It looks pretty good.

I don't know if the players just suck at aiming or if the damage is low but I liked how fights took a while to be decided.

In cpm duel (the matches ive seen) the damage is so ridic that you can win a fight by pure accident, like someone gets splashed by rockets while trying a combo (not even direct hits) and then hes dead.

That's kind of shit to watch. But here the guys are going at it and mixing it up, which was interesting. Unless that only happened b/c they are newb aimers.

The lg is fucking BRIGHT. And I don't like the axe. It should have glowing edges and be like a lightsaber axe because that shit is useless vs a fucking steel robot son

Also like plasma being a hitscan b/c air control and cpm movement is too fast for it to be a projectile


Can you steal the player names script from q3 osp? You could make some really cool names with blinking letters and shit. Quakelive ain't going to use it, just take it.

Aims will get better than whats in the movie and damages are pretty close to CPMA at the moment (although the way our splash damage falls off is different). If someone is getting killed by the outer parts of a rocket splash though, they're being noob and engaging in combat on 25h / 0a.

LG (well, Ion Cannon) already looks different in our nightly builds -- effects are just as much a work in progress as everything else in the game.

If you don't like the axe, that's fine because melee weapons are user selected cosmetics.

Plasma at the moment is like a slightly buffed Q3 MG but it hasn't had nearly enough playtesting so it might change.

I can remember making myself an animated name bind in Q1 but I think QW came along and added "Foo has renamed to Bar" messages and probably flood protection. Not sure if there's a technical reason it was prevented.

I'd like plasma to have some knockback and ability to fuck up someones jumping course/strafing movement. (cripple)

In q3 lg had cripple, which means your movement got fucked up if you got hit. I like lg more in quakelive because you can actually dodge it and its more fair.

But having plasma do cripple on movement for Reflex would be really useful and interesting.

Well using the default knockback scales, plasma was really fucking annoying to get peppered with because of the cripple, so I just turned knockback off (except you own, so you can plasma climb).

It will get a proper evaluation when we go through and fix all the knockback problems (knockback does almost nothing to people who are strafe jumping fast enough etc).

whatever jamalz says he wants - do the opposite ;p
i love the sounds/gfx, btw!


has ddk played reflex yet? i'd love for him to be an alpha tester

whatever makes it fun, i'm just tossing ideas at him and hoping for a good outcome

I've been lurking and trolling in esr for several years by now, and I think jamalz is the guy that knows the most about quake in this whole site. Actually he's one of the very few that talks about specific parts of duel gameplay.

Might agree with him or not, but he's certainly worth reading.

some of his suggestions have been laughable(see nvc thread)
he might know q3/ql, but he's clueless about cpm

Maybe, but still I think it would be a good idea to take input from 'experts' of particular games, filter what's good and what isn't for the project and there you go.

In q3/ql duel jamalz is the guy to read on this site, just like with cpm duel the guy to read is memphis. In QW tdm -the purest of them all- ddk is the boshy, though he rarely talks about it, and I can't recall if there's anyone here that talks specifics about Q3/QL tdm or ctf.

For TDM we'd have to aggro fox or purri but gag noctis I guess.

It's us sucking at aiming atm. The sensitivity in reflex differs from the sensitivity in quake and we only yesterday found a formula to match it, also the game doesn't run that stable on my PC yet, which will be fixed in the future though. After all it's still pre-alpha, so some stability issues are expected. I'm not the greatest aimer in general though, maybe average. Better people than me will hopefully contribute some videos soon as well.

I agree with low damage, it would be nice if they forced the game to be more strategical, and didn't allow situation where 1 random rocket decides the whole fight. LONG FIGHTS FTW!

but it's a BIG nooo for that osp names

Direct rocket spawn rape or gtfo

Polish this shit to the point where it melts your hands while holding it and you're good!

I have my doubts how this project will get funded.

successfully!

Who knows. We depend on reddit at this point.

What would be great is getting enough to pay someone to spare time on this for 6 months, arqoon for example. That was pretty much the only period when QL saw some development.

I second nemecal's comment. Otherwise :D!!!!

Pretty cool. Glad to hear all sounds are placeholders because there is not one good one there, with all due respect. Very underwhelming.

didnt watch for long (beyond the 0:41 floor bug)...needs bright skins to make it watchable...reminded me of the UT2004 demo on CTF-FaceClassic

It's a feature.

That bathroom tile look on all maps is also a placeholder until you get real textures, right?

You know - Reflex is by CPMA fans for CPMA fans ;)

you should check out the cpma credits

C ATASTROPHIC
P OOR
M APPING
A TEXTURES

tbh I like the look of that. It's super clean, no distractions just a green faggot running around. I would play it like that.

Looks nice. Liking through floor damage. Agreed with jamalz that it'd be cool if there was a 'special' type of floor which could be damaged from underneath and you could place such floors in campy spots - i.e. like GL platfrom at ZTN in Q3/QL.

Liking the progress, keep it up.

I sent an FB message to Reflex this morning and they responded within 5 minutes. Damn, they're fast.
_____________________________________
My Message:

Hey ReflexFPS,
I'm here to ask a few questions regards to gameplay and network and it would be GREATLY appreciated if you could respond!
GAMEPLAY:
1. Will their be a matchmaking system?
2. Will their be a proper skilling/elo/related type system?
3. Do you guys think you will make a ladder system kinda like ESEA/FaceIt? (this would be VERY cool).
4. Do you guys think you can release a huge .txt file regarding all of the cvars that you would put in your "autoexec" and give definition on all of the CVARS so we can prepare to make our configs? I plan on making a config site, where you make your own config. I WAS making it for Quake 2.0 but after hearing those updates, I'm looking forward to Reflex now and would like to offer some support for it!
NETWORK:
1. Will the netcode be way better than Quake LIve's
--
Like I said if you can answer these questions it would be appreciated big time!

________________________________

Response from Reflex:

1. Yes, there will be a matchmaking system.
2. Yes, there will be a ranking system
3. We've got a ladder system planned that will allow you to see how players rank within your region (such as North America, Europe, Australia etc) but you'll also be able to drill down and see how players rank in your country/city.
4. We'll document the cvars eventually, but during early development they get added, removed and changed so frequently that it would be a huge time sink . We're also trying to avoid having Reflex be too config heavy -- we're designing the game so that it doesn't need extensive config tweaking before you can see players properly or play online lag free. We appreciate the support though!
5. The netcode will be considered "unfinished" until it is better than QuakeLive's

________________________________

\o/

Very excited for this.

Doesn't come as a shock that you didn't ask them about any sort of anti cheat measures :)

but a bit more on topic, this is what I'm most hyped out with this project - the devs seem to be aware of the community and the happening around it.

I realized after I posted it that I should've asked about anticheat, doing it now actually. I will edit this once they respond!

Response: http://i.gyazo.com/0ec7b13bc39c86de226b2c022ffd254f.png

fallen in love

These guys are legit. Better than what they are doing with QL and better than Reborn with the 3 different type of movements robot shit.
I still wish the movement was VQ3 like than CPMA but whatever.

If you want quake 3, then play quake 3.

What do you mean? I could say if you want CPMA then play CPMA? I mean map is cpm3a give me a fucking breako,

The game is made by CPMA enthusiasts, deal with it.

Point irrelevant.

Vague assumption.

Inconclusive statement.

Evasive maneuver.

Strawman argument.

Primigenius feces!

Eviscerate the Proletariat!

Potato

Pyk?

I think they should offer both options of having VQL and CPMA movements.

But making CPMA movement by default. But making the VQL movement also rankable.

Oh c'mon, lets leave VQL for QL ALONE!

Plssssssssssssssssssssss let me play it

I LOVE IT !

So, basically...this is CPMA with fancy graphics. :/ Gonna try it, but I would rather settle for QL with new engine.

So, time not hidden?

how do I get this into my life immediately

hay how do I play cpma widescreen without stretched crosshair and how 2 play at 144hz or 120hz without the game being choppy thx

using cnq3, haven't tried others yet

1. Custom xhair/hud element maybe, otherwise you can't.
2. It's locked to 125fps.

I think the crosshair size command takes width and height.. from memory, ch_crosshairsize 32x24 etc

Cool! cg_crosshairsize 24x32 worked! Now I just have this problem where it looks really choppy, sort of like I'm just seeing the actual server frames with no lerping or smoothing or anything. It's actually *much* worse at 120hz than 144hz. Solid 125 fps, and have the problem when I'm just running around the map offline even...

If you don't know then I'll just try some other engines, especially if some of them have a higher framerate cap. CPMA stuff has always been a mystery to me.

use dfengine or iodfengine. make shortcut add +set fs_game "cpma" in target line

and yes the crosshairsize takes it 10x20

cnq3 is shit

you on ATI or Nvidia?

r9

that might be why. I had two ATI cards and both handles openGL HORRIBLY, enough to where I changed cards just for that reason alone. A lot of OpenGL games would run at 60fps in windowed mode, but the game was 125fps. It boiled down to AMD/ATI have horrible drivers and compatibility with openGL.

I swear I've had ZERO issues with nvidia

Yeah this is my first AMD card, I'm an nvidia fanboy myself but my buddy gave me this card when he upgraded. It's a really nice card. I like it a lot more than I thought I would.

I just tried ioquake3 and I don't have the problem so it seems to be cnq3 specific. QL, Warsow, and all the other Quake 3's run really smoothly at 144hz.

The only problem I've had with this card is sometimes in Flatout 2 (hilarious game to play with your friends) a vertex of my car will be like in outer space but that's a pretty old and un-updated game and it doesn't bother me since my car is always changing shape =)

Anyway this shit is super off-topic lol thanks for the help guys <3

Edit: Catalyst 14.7

1) Rl model looks bad. It is not looking like a weapon its looking like red piece of pipe. sry. Models in ut3 and sketches in ut4 are best imho.
2) Will be some blood or ragdoll? Now nothing is going on when you make a frag.
3) As FX guy i dont like rail fx cause it is looks like fantasy trail not sci-fi. Rocket fx is small, small smoke, small rocket model etc you can make it x2 wider.
4) It is very good that you add some "new" weapons. I hope you not makeing a clone of cpm! GL

1. Q1 RL = best
2. They implemented GIBS already

Derp

Blood, gibs and ragdoll are all being worked on. All art is largely placeholder at the moment so don't worry about how it looks until we get to at least the Beta stage ;)

just watched most of the demo

first thoughts that came to my head

lack of wallclipping made the game less interesting than a regular cpm match.
graphics blew my mind


either bring back wallclipping

or

keep it off, but use a more QW like style of bunnyhopping/air control

please do something to make the gameplay more interesting

instead of that axe as a melee weapon why not make an animation for throwing your weapon then 2 fists pop up.. m1 for left punch m2 for right punch.. image the awsome low hp 1v1 you could have in CA... plenty of lols to be had. I'd donate $100 if this idea gets implemented and play this game for ever haha

fist duels to pick the server or map!!!
that would be awesome, but i dont want two buttons being used, m1 is enough.

another vote for using your fist ala hexen

[img1]

With all the weapon and surrounding glow, the enemy models should be brighter.

Also the sound effects are a weak spot at the moment, they sound bland and a little unfitting. They don't deliver any emotions, not exciting.

all art and sounds are currently place holder

I just realized how much emotion is build up by sounds... hope the sounds will replaced soon.

Now you know how Warsow players feel. Turns out, robots and lasers and shit = NOT REALLY THAT COOL ACTUALLY

The more i see of this game, the more i hope they will spend time and resources on earlier mentioned things like matchmaking etc to make this game a longterm succes! Cause this game is starting to look proper sexy!!

I would like to see how the netcode turns out though. Main reason I get annoyed at QL was the 'thru rails'.

somehow i like it. hope for some alpha keys spread over here :)

Can I ask a serious question?

What's the point of making total Quake rip-offs which will be worse than the original anyways?

Dude, never ask such questions on ESR. NEVER.

I just did.

no point

Registered: 5 Feb 2012 B(

Around here since 2006. So what?

I'm excited to see how new FPS will bring brand new maps !

http://esreality.com/post/2641199/reflex-s-ed...e-changer/

;)

was joking :)

My most played map is still ztn ya know ... ;)

looking good

The axe definitely needs a soundeffect when you hit the wall with it that can be heard thorughout the map, like in QW.

i lack the words to express how much this game gonna fail.

27 players. the cpm curse :D

Where the fuck you have been. Best commentator ever.

besides being on probation? :{D

weeding in a forsaken by god and time small polish village. i stayed with my family for some time there.

Can't wait for your comments on this "killing ql" drama on ESR regarding Steam Deployment :DDDD

Well I know that myself and a bunch of other vanilla players will be playing it so there will be at least 40 or so.

NA doesnt count, you muricans are so desperate for quake action you will play Tribes.

wait for Unborn than ;)

FFS ITS THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

than - when you compare things, eg: this movie is shittier thAn its first part

then - timey wimey stuff, eg: shut up and thEn go fuck yourself.



is it really so hard m8?

yea, because when I want to write for eg. "them" my auto correct makes it like "tchem" ;d

lol is auto correct in your device set to gibberish? :D

dunno :D
but its just lol

Auto dictionary switcher - 10/10 recommend

chrome fucked me up ;]

0/10 not gonna play.
played that game 10 years ago.

this "blip" sound for me sucks!
where are the kinda "aggression/obliterating" textures in the game? a bit kinda quakeworld? why these graphics look like LEGO ? why the image that shows the weapons on FOV are too similar?(I'm talking about the depiction of them)

Okay you CPMA junkies - here you have some closer look at pre-alpha Reflex. Bear in mind that almost all visuals and sounds are PLACEHOLDERS.

Damn, you guys are gonna scare them away from showing anything at all before it's finished.

They even went so far and added a huge text on the head up display so people won't make comments like that.

Boy were they wrong.

ok now i see, i think i haven't paid much attention from where i read it. I was just wondering about these features, if they were going to that direction and so on.

sorry about my distraction.

cheers!

http://esreality.com/post/2640805/a-reflex-du...pid2641425

Looks so stiff ,boring and shit......hf

So far looks like warsow without walljumps not much to say besides i dont like it. looking forward to see it shaping up though

using cpm maps even as placeholders turns me off so much tbh (using something like dm6 would do it equally as much)

that's insightful.

I agree, the dark zone would be a nicer map to look at.

Newborn, I have another fix for Reflex that will make people play it more. Ban CMSS before the game is released.

Newborn: are you going to include any existing (popular) maps into official release? I'm hoping the answer is no.

Not sure if they have copyrights to do it. I hope not :D Enough of ZTN shit.

cyka blyat

Can't stop the community to add whatever it wants. Unless you're QL.

Assuming there will be community :)

There will be a ZTN and hubwalk tho :D

why is this a problem?

Playing good maps is shit experience111

why give people 10+ years of experience by bringing in an old maps

i agree with you, but at the same time, there's a reason why these maps have been in heavy rotation for a decade. personally i could go either way, i just hate seeing comments like that one that don't justify why they shouldn't port classic maps over. it doesn't matter anyway, because the map editor is going to mean people will be producing an abundance of maps

The problem I see is that this can make this game just a replacement for CPMA. It is what we don't want. If the game pretends to be number one of modern fast paced shooters it has to bring something fresh. Having all new maps will make situation on the scene open from the start. New players are not starting with such handicap in comparison to old-schoolers.

Another thing. If you want to play old maps why do you need new game for it? Are you bored or disguised of old q3 engine graphics?

I know people will play whatever they want, but I hope tournament organizers will be wise enough to promote brand new arenas.

Making levels for such game is not easy task - you would need few guys like cityy working 24/7 for few months at least.

The problem I see is that this can make this game just a replacement for CPMA. It is what we don't want.

What's wrong with a replacement for CPMA? What's so bad about that? I thought most people here wanted something to replace our old quakes, but now all of a sudden don't?

If the game pretends to be number one of modern fast paced shooters it has to bring something fresh..

Well no. It already brings something fresh without having to create new maps (although new maps are being created already)

New players are not starting with such handicap in comparison to old-schoolers

Hence match making and ranking system. No old schooler is going to be paired up with a noob.

Another thing. If you want to play old maps why do you need new game for it? Are you bored or disguised of old q3 engine graphics?

I want to play maps both old and new. I don't need a new game for it. I can settle for cpma cpm or Reflex, and I will support both to the fullest extent. Old maps in a new engine/game isn't the same as old maps in an old game. Afaik, during the whole quakelive update, people were just crying how they should have just revamped and updated the graphics for quakelive. The same can be done with cpma, except they've actually changed the game and added new features to the game, things that both cpma and ql don't have.

What's wrong with a replacement for CPMA? What's so bad about that? I thought most people here wanted something to replace our old quakes, but now all of a sudden don't?

I strongly disagree with you. Making a game clone may end up with getting a cloned player base. If game designers do it just for fun and the rest of CPM friends then it's okay. But if they are willing to make good and popular FPS this is not the way to go. I assume you are CPM player so no matter what you will be happy to switch to Reflex. For me and most of QL players it's not enough. I played CPMA a lot in the past but I will not plaz Reflex if this will be just CPMA with new look&feel.

It is not just CPMA with new look&feel. It's CPMA with new look&feel, user friendly modding/mapping tools, matchmaking and potentially more capable in areas that doesn't have support in the old id tech. You play QL do you not? That is a clone of Quake3 with very little improvement in comparison. If that's enough to get you hooked, then you will without a doubt play Reflex and there's nothing you can do to stop yourself.

I have nothing against the game having physics and gameplay similar to CPM. I just wish it will bring new maps that will be better than the older ones. More adapted to current engine features and fun to play. I'm with Quake for too long to still play the same maps, but tons of people tend to be in stagnation. They are lazy to train new maps. I think it is better to go forward.

reflex development is focused in the engine right now, it's better to make new maps once all the editing tools are ready and optimized, the only reason you are watching old cpm maps is because we know how its supposed to work the gameplay in there.

Once the engine is made you'll have a shitload of new maps, don't worry, this project came up around December and tbh they are going pretty damn fast considering the small team.

I streamed latest build yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4vEqqG-SRo&a..._isOyL-SYg

That's what I hope for. From software developer perspective I understand why testing gameplay and physics on older maps is reasonable.

You really wont have to worry about new maps -- the editor seems to be getting people really excited.

Saboo, ninemil, memphis, povohat, mew, seekax and xero have all built maps. Here are some shots of a map me and our artist smashed out together over 2 nights that seems to be playing really well.

If we already have new maps coming from such a small group of testers, I don't think there will be a shortage of them when we see a more widespread release ;)

Very good. Thanks man :)

looks awesome, but the rockets feel really strange

not enough people have been making maps and lack of willingness to try newer maps is why they've stayed in rotation.

2-3 years? ago? (im getting old) ninex did a couple of 1 map cups on new maps. it seemed like a lot of people enjoyed it but after the tournaments ended nobody continued to play the maps. it was pretty infuriating to just see everyone give up after there was no more "reason" to try and figure out something that hadn't been played for eons

it's up to the community and tourney organisers to fix that problem really. an easy fix would be just to not include old maps in the official release, but that won't stop anyone from re-creating the maps in the map editor... which also calls into question copyright and intellectual property. i'm not to sure if the community would be able to recreate maps from the likes of hoony swelt hubster and other disappeared authors without obtaining permission for use in cash-prizepool tournaments.

personally i could go cold turkey and never play 22/3a/15/1a ever again if this game takes off. everyone wants new maps, but nearly no one is willing to create

you have a point, but overall i don't think the experience differential is the best argument against old maps.

if you have two equally skilled players, then the one with more map experience has an advantage, but if you're talking about a player with 10+ years of experience versus a relative newbie, map knowledge won't be the deciding factor in why the newbie gets destroyed.

but regardless, how long does it really take to learn a map sufficiently well? especially when playing against an experienced opponent you'll pick up on the right ways to play the map pretty quickly imho.

i think the best argument against using old maps is the fact that it's boring to see the same stuff we've seen for over a decade over and over again. new maps are interesting and have the potential to show us games and playstyles that we've never seen before.

I agree. To sum it up. Experience disadvantage may be reason for newbies to ignore the game, for veterans the argument is to play still same shit. I'm veteran so for me your argument is adequate and I will most probably don't play a game if there will be cpm1a or cpm3 in regular tournament map pool. However I don't mind trying them on some public server.

I agree. like aiken says I just hope we don't see a "REFLEX $100000 TOURNAMENT FT CPM1A/3A/15/22/24"

That argument was made for QL and ended up not being true at all. In the newer maps the same names were the best and there were no newcomers' upsets whatsoever.

because the only "pros" were the people who had been playing for eons anyways it ended up not mattering

I wasn't referencing pure competitive play by the way. I'm talking the pub servers, the weekend tournaments for fun etc. especially for a brand new game, a new IP, there is absolutely no advantage to having decade old maps be a staple of it imo

There will be new maps, and you can make your own! :)

Please no robot shit....

not sure if srs