See, the biggest problem is that you speak like females NEED to play. So what if they're a minority? It just goes to show that the female audience isn't as interested in a game like Quake as the male audience is. This isn't a problem that needs to be solved, it's only natural. What's next, trying to get more males interested in barbie? Gonna push for professional female football players? Just because there isn't an equal share of people from both genders, doesn't mean there needs to be.

The males aren't the ones who poke fun at females pulling only in the top 32, it's the females. You hear it from a couple people and suddenly it's the whole gender at fault. The only misconception is the view that females THINK the male players have. It's funny because idiocy like this is only CREATING the stereotype of female gamers that you think exists. Nice.

There shouldn't be a "female" community any more than there should be a "male" one. Get over yourselves and learn to be average. I reply here since I'm not a coward.

The males aren't the ones who poke fun at females pulling only in the top 32, it's the females.

You may notice she didn't say it was the males, she said "In this community many think that females are not good enough". That would include the females just as much as it may the males. It isn't about males not believing in a females abilities, as much as an overall perception by both males and females that as long as there isn't a female in the top 10 that maybe females don't have what it takes. That doesn't make it true of course. It just stresses how a good role model can alter opinion. Once there is a female in the top 10, they can act as a symbol that gives those females trying to make it hope.

Lastly, its not about creating interest where there is none. Females may always remain in the minority due to as you say average general interest. I think what is being addressed here is providing encouragement to those who are interested but do not fully participate out of fear that its futile.

This sort of thing is something that everyone trying to compete feels at some time on some level and its those who have the confidence to keep at it and practice hard who get somewhere. For some it may just be a fear that they lack the skill, for some women it may be a misguided fear that they don't stand a chance based on the fact that females aren't currently taking home oversized checks in mixed gender tournaments. Positive influences and support should always be welcomed and if the FPA is interested in helping out a few people I don't see how its a negative thing for that sub-community to exist.

Do you really think half of the top Quake players are in their current position because of "role models"? Think Cooller was like "ZOMG FATALONETY IS TEH BESTEST, IMA GROW UP 2B HIM"? There are just as many (if not MORE, due to the sheer number) guys with the same confidence problems. As was stated, the number of female gamers in the pool is very small. There are plenty of MALE gamers who aren't at the top because of lack of practice/confidence/etc. However, just because the few female players in the pool fall into that category does not mean that girls need special treatment.

Female gamers don't need help, gamers do. You say it's not negative, but it's just another small community split that an already small community doesn't need. The further things are apart, the less support we have. All this effort could be going into advertising and community promotion instead of a project that (I'm willing to bet my savings account) will not bring a female into the top 5.

Do I really think half of the top Quake players are in their current position because of "role models"? Very nearly, yes. Of course many are there without ever having looked up at someone else, but I can name quite a few that have -- including several that sit in the top spots today (from both personal accounts and interviews which I could most likely reference). Are role models required? No. Do people tend to admire those who previously have been successful? Yes, of course.

Concerning the males who lack confidence, of course I feel they are out there (and those issues deserve to be addressed as much as the females'). Confidence is a wide issue, and a lack of confidence can spur from several highly different things. You may assume I don't intend to try to help everyone overcome their confidence issues. I just think different problems often require different approaches. An example of another confidence issue is one that I already brought up, skill level. Players of a lower skill can progress overtime. But its difficult to improve if you're playing someone too far above your skill level.

This is a widely discussed issue and most people understand both the problem and its solutions fairly well. That being the need for improvements in the matchmaking process so that players of equal skill level can play eachother both for the sake of having enjoyable games as well as making improvements by playing competitors whose skill level is just slightly above yours opposed to out of your league. What the FPA is doing here is comparable. They are providing an internal community to help a group of people progress and address something such as confidence. This is no different than what an amature league would do for mid-ranked players seeking to "go pro".

There's a difference between helping the confidence of players and helping the confidence of female players. For one, you're not helping the females, you're just singling them out and creating strife on forums. "Matchmaking" with like-skilled players is not the way to get better. I didn't learn by playing my newb friends, I learned by getting my ass handed to me over and over. The problem is that kids these days are nothing but whiners and wusspots. They get served and ragequit, never to return.

For every female with a confidence issue in the community, there are hundreds of guys. It just seems like a big deal for females because of the aforementioned ratio. I didn't say role models were useless, just that they're not the driving force behind motivation and confidence. Protip: a role model doesn't make you better, practice does. Confidence is certainly not the only factor that is keeping females out of pro gaming. Not everyone can afford to take time off of work, take the risk to go to a tournament, spend 8 hours a day practicing, etc... Again, the ratio just creates an illusion.

The risk/reward model of pro gaming is quite unfriendly. Piss poor advertising and terrible developer support doesn't help, either. Right now, it's a joke. The community as a whole is struggling and you're ignoring the real problems. Our lives are in your hands, and you have butterfingers.

Again as I said, You may assume I don't intend to try to help everyone overcome their confidence issues. Your assumption would be wrong. =p

Right now, it's a joke. The community as a whole is struggling and you're ignoring the real problems.

You're right, it currently is a "joke", but a lot more is being done about it than you might believe. I'm not ignoring the issues at all.

I didn't say you didn't, I was referring to the FPA. You were in defense of the FPA, and therefore the association stands. Things going on behind the scenes are no help. =/

Actually they are a great help! =) In fact, its those things that take so much effort and time that help the most, and those are often behind the scene efforts until they can be presented. Yes, they do not help *immediately*, but in the long run its those great changes that the community needs. Everyone knows that the FPS scene (especially DM / duel) needs major systems in place that do not currently exist for these games. My company and many of its community members are hard at work making a better future for our games and E-Sports.

As far as the FPA is concerned, I am a part of it and within the organization we've been speaking to FPS development studios and event organizers and have been working there behind the scenes as well to help provide input and assistance. Its easy for people to say that these behind the scenes actions don't help because they are not yet visible to them, but that's just poor speculation on their part.

We can only go on what we've seen in the past. It's easy to say "OH, WE'VE GOT THIS BADASS STUFF GOING ON WITH BELLS AND WHISTLES" without putting your money where your mouth is. If things are being worked on, there's no reason to keep it secret from the community. How can you even justify it? Hell, how can you justify how Q4 went out the door? That's the result of what goes on behind the scenes without community help. What does it get us? An arQon mod.

No matter what you have "in the works", the fact remains that the FPA is of no use to pro gaming and it's blatantly obvious.

Let's not bash the arQon mods now, I love 'em.

As do I, I'm just saying that all id has really done is make work for arQon.

Yeah well.

The real mystery was that didn´t id care at all about q4 multiplayer or were they completely oblivious to the crappy state in which it was relased.

I blame the fact that Carmack wasn't running the show.

Polos

polos takes good pictures

You should reply on the forum if you post it here.
It's a forum not a personal notice board.

Actually it's a journal.

Don't get clever with me Ruski!!

I'm sorry, I should have just said that "it's personal notice board"

I agree gaming needs girls to become mainstream. However, their progress onto the scene should be more natural. Any kind of positive discrimination will bring the exact opposite, more girls doing it for a quick buck/fame and more male gamers who think they are inferior.

If they would get up and actually try to get better @ FPS, instead of just beeing funny and play each other.
then, i think, no serious FPS-Fan would discriminate them.
we had the topic of little boys bashing women on teh internets ... that's another story ...

Now mostly in games like Quake and such were the amount of time invested in the game in order to aquire a skill level worthy of competition status leaves things like personal hygiene are left to afterthought, girls arent really excited about becoming pro.

;DD you should`ve gone for a full fake account ;D

*standing ovation*

Well I'm a girl and would like to consider myself a gamer. I enjoy it, but if it weren't for my boyfriend, whos an amazing Q3 player btw, I wouldn't have gotten into it. He insist that i could be as good as him one day but you see, and i speak for quite a few girls when i say this, gamers have a negative reputation. Now mostly in games like Quake and such were the amount of time invested in the game in order to aquire a skill level worthy of competition status leaves things like personal hygiene are left to afterthought, girls arent really excited about becoming pro. It's not that we think we're not as good, it's that we feel (and I'm not speaking for everyone) that we have other things we'd rather spend our time doing.
I think the idea of a girl league is very sweet, but it's a little sheltering. Vedic has the right idea, I'd play him to get better not the level 4 bot, and I've seen him play more than enough to know i wouldn't get a kill for a long, long time. I started me out a wasd player and impressed a few people, but its not something that I would spend all day doing, I'd rather be with my boyfriend, or my friends, I'm an artist I'd much rather do that than feel like I've wasted a day on the com.
So that may explain the fewer number of girlies in the field. Also when I play I don't like to announce my gender, If I beat a boy they may become upset, or worse they may go easy on me. It's no fun knowing you won because some one let you and a league for girls I think would be looked down apon reguardless of the skill level of its members.

Let´s see if this goes under flamebait.

I don´t really see the point in that post on one hand it`s full of clichès (sp?) like "smelly nerd - never showers" and on the other, like you yourself say, you`d rather be doing other stuff than playing a computer game, well is anyone forcing you, no.

Regardless of gender there are billions of people in the world who would rather go e.g jogging than fire up a quake game.

I still fail to see how it`s a good thing that women who play computer games is considered some kind of novelty?

It's like they created this women team to suck girls in, thinking that everything was was going to get better. There was nothing wrong with there not being girls in the game, they weren't being left out they simply weren't interested, I just posted why, and like I said befor I don't speak for all girls.

maybe you should have informed yourself a little more, cause about every second post someone from the fpa will post that they do not wish to push female only leagues or tournaments.


Oh, and personally I found it funny that your boyfriend is an awesome Quaker and you also think that playing well leads to a lack of personal hygiene...

exactly what i thought ...
another useless FPA-Thread

Try playing 5 days straight. You're not exactly Mr. Fresh when you get done.

Even though those times are somewhat over for me I usually did manage to sqeeze in a shower every day and brush my teeth and what not.
As for feeling fresh, well that's true but that does not have too much to
do with hygiene but rather getting fresh air and sunlight.
And if you are talking about bigger Lans, well you might have a point that some people don't manage to take a shower at all. But then have you ever been to a musci festival...

heh I was going to mention the music festival thing, it's ok for 50,000 people to slob for three and more days in mud and shit, yet lans are not acceptable?

of cuorse not. Festivals are like mainstream and lans are not!!!

Music festivals are fucking gross. Living in a tent for 3 days, drinking hard alcohol constantly, which nearly always leads to accidents of the vomit variety. Moshing in a muddy field with thousands of other people who have been through the same... Really, mainstream people can just sod off with their hygiene argument.

However, I have to agree (a bit) that gamers tend not to be very social and hence neglect their hygiene. But all "geeks" do, so it's not unique to gaming there. Still, stereotypes...

i like you ... do you want to make ... sexy time ?

lol

u shouldn't laugh at a flamebait, it's naughty!

me bad :P

borat is teh pwnener

your reasoning is flawed in several ways and this type of comparison has been made a number of times before in stuff like chess etc. Reading up is what you need to do to see beyond your made up 'misconception'

Talk about making a mountain out of the bottom of the sea (The deep parts!)

mid atlantic riff :(

rofl

please stop it before it's getting completely ridiculous, maybe you should re-read your own post and reconsider some of the stuff you think are issues or a 'misconception'. then read #12 (posted by a girl btw) again carefully, and you should realise that your journal and probably the whole FPA is just.. void.

I'm going to be mean and say I don't think there will be a female gamer in the top 10, at least in fps type games, for a long time, if ever, and I'm totally in favour of all female tournaments as long it's recognised that that they are necessary because they can't be competitive vs males.

It isn't enough to say there aren't enough female gamers to produce someone good. I'm sure there are, for instance, more female fps players than say Scottish fps players but there have been several world class players from Scotland but none that are female.

if at firsta girl don't succeeds, she stops doing it and tries something else.
from experience. Peace out!

ok Ms. Garrison