feelingShit: :)
feelingShit: so you're really done for tonight ?
alborz: hmm
alborz: Yeah I think so man
feelingShit: ok
alborz: Lots of tough games today
alborz: relaxing is good for the brain too ;D
feelingShit: yep :)
feelingShit: well then next time maybe, if i still do thunder :D
feelingShit: btw
feelingShit: what your mouse and sens ?
alborz: G403 logitech, 19,8cm/360
feelingShit: palm grip ?
alborz: Claw
feelingShit: wtf
feelingShit: claw on g403, how comes ? :D
alborz: Forced myself
feelingShit: why not G Pro from logitech ?
alborz: even got holes on side of my G403 from squeezing it too hard, foto on esr
feelingShit: you're a pure claw player or the back of your hand touches the bottom of the mouse ?
feelingShit est devenu Hrtls.
alborz: back of hand touches mouse
alborz: Palm/claw hybrid I think
Hrtls: your hand is rather large ?
alborz: 19,5cm
alborz: But I am not satisfied with the G403 shape
alborz: I just aim good with it, but it hurts me
alborz: Thinking about getting an old G9 or IME 1.1
alborz: Something that fills my palm up more and allows proper clawing
Hrtls: i have the pretty much perfect mouse for your hand size and grip style
Hrtls: ZA11
alborz: Yes but that one has 3310 sensor
alborz: The reason I hit so well is the 3366
alborz: Only reason
Hrtls: you tried 3310 ?
alborz: I was on a G400s before
Hrtls: g400s is not 3310 :D
alborz: Thought it was
Hrtls: 3366 is just 3310 with some customizations
Hrtls: nop g400s is definitely not 3310 :D
alborz: ah ok
Hrtls: you lack money ? if not then really try the ZA11, if you don't like it, sell it or send it back
Hrtls: because
Hrtls: ZA11 is as much as big as IE 3.0 / Deathadder
Hrtls: but it's ambidextrous
Hrtls: and it's optimize for large hand with claw + palm hybrid grip
Hrtls: optimized
alborz: I would enjoy a ZA12 or 13 too I think
alborz: but it has side buttons on the right side
Hrtls: i have the ZA11, i don't hold it the way it's supposed to be hold (i'm fingertip grip) but got used to it and it's very comfy
alborz: EC2-a also looks nice
alborz: been thinking about getting that one for a long time now
Hrtls: might be a little to small for your hand
Hrtls: EC1-A is exactly like IE 3.0
alborz: loved the IE 3.0
Hrtls: but
alborz: best mouse ever made ;)
Hrtls: IE 3.0 and EC1-A or even DeathAdder are mainly meant for pure palm grip
Hrtls: ofc you can hold them
Hrtls: the way you want
Hrtls: but it's much more comfy if you use palm grip only
Hrtls: fingers and hand not hurting after a long session of gaming
Hrtls: if you palm
Hrtls: but if you palm + claw, i'm not sure
Hrtls: might be just a little bit uncomfy after long practice session
Hrtls: so that's why i really recommend you to try the ZA11
Hrtls: the shape is meant for claw + palm hybrid grip style
alborz: There is no place to test them out, that's the thing that sucks
Hrtls: and the mouse is pretty just as large as IE 3.0/EC1-A/DeathAdder
Hrtls: yeah
Hrtls: so like i said if you don't lack money, just get it :D and if you don't like it you can still resell it etc ^^
alborz: need to sell G Pro first
alborz: I like the G303 too
alborz: but it's a bit too small for me
alborz: G403 is perfect but lacks butt
alborz: ZA series look amazing but expensive to take gamble without feeling them out
alborz: Ninox Venator also something nice
alborz: http://ninox.co/products/venator
Hrtls: yep :)
alborz: mix between g403 and za series
Hrtls: yeah but bst's mice are often not very reliable
Hrtls: and build quality is nowhere near zowie or mionix
alborz: Mionix has a nice line-up too
alborz: but also sidebuttons on right side which will suck
alborz: Might just buy Scream One and be done with it :D
Hrtls: side buttons on right side is no issue imho, cause usually they are placed pretty high on the side, and with your grip style you won't even touch them
alborz: But I already play good with G403 man
Hrtls: and look, i use fingertip with my ZA11, i hit the right side buttons pretty often, but got used to it, it's a non-issue, actually it even feels "softer" for my fingers when i press them cause i tend to tense my fingers a lot :D
Hrtls: yeah
Hrtls: i was just telling you :)
Hrtls: imho with 15cm/360° + ZA11 you would be untouchable :D
Hrtls: but that's just my opinion/suggestion, you know :D
alborz: It would take a toll on my long range game
alborz: Not that you play bad though
Hrtls: i use 13cm, long range is perfectly fine :D
Hrtls: it's just that
Hrtls: you have to do smaller movements than on 20cm+
Hrtls: you tend to move your whole arm less also
Hrtls: and you react faster
alborz: yep
alborz: High sens has its charm
alborz: But I play with my own settings for years now
alborz: feel 20cm is just sweet spot for everything
Hrtls: 15cm is just in the middle between high and medium(your current sens) :D
alborz: Sometimes it's a bit too low, sometimes bit too high but most of the time it just feels right
Hrtls: obviously i'm not in a position to force you to change your sens :D but imho if you're bored and want to try something new/different, then play with 15cm for 2 or 3 hours
Hrtls: and see by yourself if it's shit or not :)
Hrtls: i personally
Hrtls: tried
Hrtls: all kind of sens
Hrtls: and dpi steps
Hrtls: 45cm 32cm 26cm 23.1cm 13cm 11.3cm
Hrtls: 13cm is best, really :D
alborz: for you ;D
Hrtls: yes :)
Hrtls: and latrommi :D
alborz: We were owning him and his crew back in 2014 in face-it cups
Hrtls: and my friend biggy (top 90 @ overwatch and better than GaRpY @ HLDM, sick QW player aswell)
Hrtls: well
Hrtls: you know why latrommi is not THAT hard ?
Hrtls: cause he has accel on top of his 13cm
Hrtls: fuck accel :D
Hrtls: it's shit, except for rl
alborz: Not everything is sens and config. It's skill, reactiontime and decisionmaking too
Hrtls: yep exactly
Hrtls: but imho
Hrtls: actually
Hrtls: back in the day
Hrtls: i used to think it was all about the perfect visual config
Hrtls: but i was wrong obviously
Hrtls: config doesn't matter much
Hrtls: but imho things that matters the most are FOV sensitivity & crosshair
Hrtls: crosshair is just a matter of which one you're more comfy with
Hrtls: sensitivity is a matter of getting used to it, but i still really do think that when you get used to a sens between 10cm and 15cm, in any fast-paced games you'll have an edge over low sens players, cause the wrist reacts faster than the arm, and your mouse movements are shorter, which means faster, and it's not like ultra uncontrolable sens like agent @ 5cm/360°, so it's just the sweet spot
Hrtls: so to summarize, get the crosshair that you feel most comfy with, get a sens between 10cm and 15cm (can even be just 10cm or 15cm), choose your fov depending on your playstyle (higher fov for rl and awareness) lower fov for pure hitscans weapons
alborz: I found out that 19,8 is fast enough for rockets, even close range, low enough for long range lg, fast enough for mid and close, and overal sens is good for railing. You see me play :D
alborz: But I agree playing with wrist feels awesome compared to arm
Hrtls: how did you find out that ? :D afaik you never tried a sens below 18cm right ?
alborz: I did try 15 and I liked it a lot
Hrtls: nice
alborz: for a couple of games
Hrtls: try it for 2-3 hours :D
alborz: I always affirm a lot about what you say
alborz: It's not that I disagree. And how I found this sens? When playing 1v1's vs liliq I found out that anything lower than 19.8 made me too slow to flick/react to liliq's dodges
alborz: and close combat
alborz: this is the minimum to be able to hit the right rockets at the right time
alborz: while being strong with hitscan
alborz: And I'm very hitscan heavy
alborz: I love close combat, but most dmg gets done in mid-range
alborz: and against top its mostl mid to long range anyways and need to hit rails to finish rounds
Hrtls: 15cm is np for mid-range actually :D or maybe you experienced otherwise ?
alborz: No mid-range is alright
alborz: I didnt feel aiming worse with 15, maybe even better
alborz: atleaast from close it was very comfortable
alborz: like not needing to put effort into killing people
alborz: if they want to circle, you can circle
alborz: but I can circle with this sens too. its not like 19,8 is low.. it's mid-high
alborz: I might try it out for a while
alborz: Been thinking about it a lot
alborz: sens 3.5 @ 800 dpi
alborz: And yeah fov, I really want to higher my fov
alborz: to maybe 103 or 105/110
alborz: 98 is great for hitscan
alborz: but people can make me go confused hugging me
Hrtls: 1cm-5cm = ultra high sens; 6cm-9cm = very high sens; 10cm-15cm = high sens; 16cm-25cm = mid sens; 26cm-35cm = low sens; 36cm-45cm = very low sens; 46cm-60cm+ = ultra low sens
Hrtls: yeah
Hrtls: fov only depends on what you want to focus
Hrtls: higher fov more awareness and prolly better rockets at close range, but lower fov better for mid-long range and hitscans in general
alborz: yep
Hrtls: also higher fov gives you more "stable" rl aim, which is nice
alborz: Yes, just look @ liliq
Hrtls: yes
Hrtls: :)
alborz: his rockets ;DDDDDD
Hrtls: yes
Hrtls: he has very stable rl aim and on top of that very precise flicks
Hrtls: his very high fov definitely helps for that
alborz: Yes
alborz: Maybe just go mid sens, mid fov
alborz: like I am now
alborz: 20cm go from 98 to 103 fov
alborz: everything medium
alborz: I think that allows max potential for creating dynamic playstyle
Hrtls: yes you are right :D
alborz: You need to be balanced to beat todes for instance :D
Hrtls: not necessarily
Hrtls: look
Hrtls: for example
Hrtls: if you got
alborz: if u wanna rape pub just go fov130 or low fov and shit on people with 1 weapon :D
Hrtls: i mean
Hrtls: being balanced is nice ofc
Hrtls: but just doesn't suit me best at the end
Hrtls: i like having better hitscans but worst rockets
Hrtls: and my high sens kinda helps a bit with my low fov at close range
Hrtls: tbh
Hrtls: i don't care much about rl
Hrtls: i just want
Hrtls: best lg ever, one of the best rail
Hrtls: the rest doesn't matter much, cause it's not my playstyle :D
Hrtls: my rockets improved lately but i'm still nowhere near the best rl player ever
Hrtls: but i don't care much as long as i have best lg and very strong rail :D
Hrtls: and also
Hrtls: QC
Hrtls: is more hitscans heavy
Hrtls: than QL
Hrtls: dunno if it will stay like that, but i really hope so
Hrtls: cause it will definitely favors players like me xD (yeah i know i'm lame by saying that :D)
Hrtls: the only things i like about RL is rocketjumps and defrag tricks you can do with it, and ofc mid-air, but about the rest, i just hate this weapon :D and i hate even more the random bounces :D
alborz: lols heart
alborz: How can you hate the RL it's what Quake is about ;D
Hrtls: all the RL lovers don't know what is real RL, best RL is in QW :)
Hrtls: but yeah
Hrtls: often quake is associated with projectile weapons
Hrtls: which is pretty stupid (imho)
Hrtls: and i hope it will change a bit in 2017-2018 with QC, i hope QC will be more hitscans oriented
Hrtls: cause also
Hrtls: 144hz or 200hz CRT or 240hz help a lot for hitscans
Hrtls: but you can do just fine with rl even on 60hz
Hrtls: it's prolly the only weapon that doesn't requiere the "perfect" setup (monitor, high fps etc)
Hrtls: fps gaming is evolving
Hrtls: most FPS, even the fastest ones, now are more hitscans-heavy
alborz: Cmon heart. RL is a skill weapon
Hrtls: didn't say it doesn't requiere skill
Hrtls: :D
Hrtls: but it's another type of skill
alborz: Yes but it's a requirement
alborz: IT should stay
alborz: because it's quake
Hrtls: actually being good with rl is insanely hard BUT i'm pretty confident when i say that lg is less random than RL
Hrtls: yeah
Hrtls: it will stay anyway :)
Hrtls: i'm not saying like
alborz: you cant win vs good RL with random RL
Hrtls: "just remove RL from quake"
Hrtls: yes but look
Hrtls: with rl
Hrtls: direct hits, and random bounces
alborz: cant win against good RL with Good LG
Hrtls: are lucky sometimes
alborz: LG is nerved
alborz: RL more important
alborz: Yes that is true
Hrtls: while with a weapon like lg for example, it's constant tracking and dmg dealing, with faster prediction of opponent movements
alborz: it can be a lotto weapon
Hrtls: so it's less random than trying to hit a direct rocket with rl
Hrtls: but again
Hrtls: i'm not saying
alborz: I enjoy all the weapons
Hrtls: remove rl from quake
Hrtls: or make it useless
alborz: Also love the grenade launcher ;D
Hrtls: i just want
Hrtls: a good rl
Hrtls: that is strong
Hrtls: enough
Hrtls: but
Hrtls: slightly less effective than pure hitscans weapons
Hrtls: like it was with Q3
Hrtls: when i started playing QL
Hrtls: i wanted
Hrtls: stronger rl than other weapons, because it's motherfucking QUAKE and i used to think quake = rl
Hrtls: so they did that
Hrtls: they nerfed rail, lg
Hrtls: re-nerfed lg after some years
Hrtls: made rockets faster
Hrtls: made smaller maps
Hrtls: with less space to dodge
Hrtls: so i was happy
Hrtls: but the more i play quake, for instance ql atm
Hrtls: the more i want it to evolve into something more hitscans-heavy
Hrtls: BUT
Hrtls: ofc with a strong enough RL to get some good mid-air with it etc
Hrtls: but tbh i'm just tired of rapha and cypher's +backing and spamming with rl
alborz: Well all this is very secondary if we look @ the Quake Champions current beta-state at the moment ;D
Hrtls: yeah
Hrtls: :)
Hrtls: i mean
Hrtls: i just want that
Hrtls: they keep the weapons settings as they are
alborz: Toxjq dominated Q4
alborz: dominated Q3
alborz: Also won a tournament on Quakecon over all quakes
Hrtls: toxjq dominated q3 tdm, not duel :D
Hrtls: toxjq rockets are stronger than his lg :D
alborz: Toxjq dominates duel too if he practices longer than 3 weeks at a time
alborz: b4 lan
alborz: Thing is, his hitscan is just immaculate
Hrtls: in q4 you could just croutch-slide into your opponent's face and rl the shit out of him, and also rail did 90dmg/hit, and toxjq rail was always one of the best
alborz: but so is his combat skill and positioning
alborz: But I have to go to bed. Let's talk tomorrow again
Hrtls: toxjq never won a major event @ QL, when the level of competition was the highest ever
alborz: Love how you're immersed into Quake
Hrtls: ah
Hrtls: actually
Hrtls: toxjq won tdm
Hrtls: so i was wrong :D
alborz: Beat rapha on LAN
Hrtls: yes also :)
alborz: beat everyone on LAN, that's the whole point. He just couldnt bring his best shape
Hrtls: but toxjq lg is not THAT strong, but on the other hand his rail is god-like, and he got very very good rockets
alborz: Yes
alborz: he's good @ tracking
alborz: people that are outpositioned
alborz: or unaware
Hrtls: cooller's dodges always destroyed toxjq lg's aim :D
Hrtls: yeah :)
alborz: <3 cooller
Hrtls: same :D
alborz: He's so terribly good
alborz est actuellement Hors-ligne.
alborz est hors-ligne pour le moment et recevra votre message à sa prochaine connexion.
Hrtls: he's ultra cocky but rather smart and he can adapt very fast to anything "on the fly"
Hrtls: and his dodges are <3
Hrtls: also
Hrtls: if you look at the history of id software's FPS
Hrtls: the pinnacle of RL-design was and is still Quake 1 (QW)
Hrtls: then with Q2 RL became slow as fuck, rail was introduced but with a delay for each shots (with insanely high dmg/hit tho, so kinda balanced the thing out), minigun was introduced instead of LG, with large spread and a delay between when you start pressing fire and it starts to shoot
Hrtls: so basically Q2's aim style was more "complex" than Q1/QW, you needed more "brain" and prediction to land good shots rather than pure "adrenaline and rampage" that you had with QW's gameplay
Hrtls: Q3 was just Q2 but with more reactive weapons, and more balanced gameplay, also LG was reintroduced and they added MG with small spread instead of the huge one that you got with the "minigun" in Q2
Hrtls: so Q3 was just an "evolution" of Q2, with some QW elements
Hrtls: but all versions of quake, from q1 to q4 always introduced major gameplay changes for each new version
Hrtls: it's just the same with QC compared to QL, and that's why most hardcore ESR veterans will prolly stick to QL because they are now playing Q3 for 20 years or something, and they can't adapt to changes, or are just too lazy for it
Hrtls: and just too old
Hrtls: :D
Hrtls: but for me, QC is the right evolution over QL, champions are fine to me, i don't have any complains about them, it's just a new gameplay element that you have to learn, i'm fine with it. Weapons balance and larger maps are fine for me aswell, stronger LG and MG/HMG aswell as stronger hitscans weapons when you zoom in are perfectly fine for me aswell. I like the fact that they seem to want that quake "evolves" again, and the major evolutions for this version of quake (i mean QC) is Champions, larger maps, new gametypes, and stronger hitscans weapons. I'm 110% fine with it :D
Hrtls: also, if you want true hardcore quake, QW is what you need, it's unmatched in term of "hardcoreness" and it surpasses Q3/QL in so many aspects when it comes to very oldschool and frantic gameplay
Hrtls: but i personally don't want 100% oldschool and frantic gameplay, i want something new, QC is what i was looking for
Hrtls: oka i'm done with my wall of text :D
Hrtls: hopefully you'll read it all when you'll be there :D
Hrtls: good night my friend HF! ;)