ESR - User: butcher

My own judgment fails to produce a result on whether the decision is correct or not, I would like to listen to other people's judgment about this.

is she right?

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13286 Hits

<< Comment #1 @ 05:21 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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cumrag

not my trouble

<< Comment #2 @ 06:55 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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xou

Why would she be wrong?

<< Comment #3 @ 08:28 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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voodoochopstiks

She's very brave and unselfish, very mature behaviour. It's definitely her choice, I hope she does well without the heart transplant.

<< Comment #5 @ 08:51 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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Bob - Reply to #3

Edited by Bob at 01:02 UTC, 28 June 2024

<< Comment #6 @ 09:59 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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voodoochopstiks - Reply to #5

Well, like she said, it's a dangerous operation and there's a big line for heart transplants, it could go to someone else, and she could get Leukemia again. I'm sure she had to go against quite a few people who thought she should have the heart transplant, parents and that child protection officer etc.

Good of her to stand up for herself.

<< Comment #86 @ 20:48 UTC, 24 November 2008 >>

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supersexyleetmegaruler - Reply to #3

thought the same thing

<< Comment #4 @ 08:50 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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Bob

Edited by Bob at 01:02 UTC, 28 June 2024

<< Comment #7 @ 11:10 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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Jamerio '

I hope this gives some perspective to the millions of stupid emo teens that plague the planet.

<< Comment #8 @ 13:17 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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hnns

that's pretty stupid.. and incredibly selfish.

<< Comment #79 @ 03:19 UTC, 24 November 2008 >>

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netrex - Reply to #8

Selfish? Can you explain what's selfish about it?

<< Comment #80 @ 13:29 UTC, 24 November 2008 >>

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hnns - Reply to #79

because she's just an ignorant little girl and it is selfish to her family to take a position that the actual doctors felt so strongly about that they considered going to court about?

<< Comment #81 @ 13:31 UTC, 24 November 2008 >>

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becks - Reply to #80

so the doctors and the family were selfish?

<< Comment #82 @ 13:55 UTC, 24 November 2008 >>

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hnns - Reply to #81

no, the girl is.

<< Comment #83 @ 14:03 UTC, 24 November 2008 >>

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becks - Reply to #82

I disagree.

she does it for herself and another patient and his / her family (who has most likely better chances of recovering)

The parents do it for their child (of course) but also for themselves to not lose her and also so they know they did everything possible. Even if the procedure might be a torture for the child.

Same goes for the doctors, they don't want to risk losing their patient and they want to tr everything possible too.

So imo out of those three groups the child is the least selfish.

<< Comment #87 @ 20:52 UTC, 24 November 2008 >>

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supersexyleetmegaruler - Reply to #82

NO U

<< Comment #84 @ 16:28 UTC, 24 November 2008 >>

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netrex - Reply to #80

She is the one in real pain and who has to suffer through it. Choosing to go on just so now one else will be sad about it is not fair for her.

<< Comment #9 @ 14:44 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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forcing the procedure on her would be an infringement upon her rights. it's completely immoral to override her decision, which only effects her and no one else.

<< Comment #12 @ 16:35 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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becks - Reply to #9

in this case I tend to agree.
But generally speaking going against a child wishes is immoral.

As a friend of mine put it:

You don't expect a 8 year old child to make an educated decision about which clothes it wants t wear during a blizzard.

<< Comment #14 @ 18:09 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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Lo - Reply to #12

that's true, but this girl is, in my opinion, experienced enough with illness to be able to make this decision herself.

<< Comment #15 @ 18:37 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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becks - Reply to #14

as I said, this time at least from what you can tell from an article yes.

but it's not a general infringement on her rights!

<< Comment #16 @ 19:29 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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Lo - Reply to #15

i'm speaking on principle, when i said rights. wasn't talking about law.

<< Comment #23 @ 04:11 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #15

Of course it is. I don't understand why it wouldn't be.

<< Comment #26 @ 10:51 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #23

Wow, you crave to be picky about everything, huh?

<< Comment #21 @ 03:26 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #12

That's a pretty stupid 8-year-old.

<< Comment #24 @ 10:32 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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becks - Reply to #21

you don't know much about kids, do you?

<< Comment #28 @ 11:29 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #24

I don't get your friends' point or the connection. What are the presumptions? That a typical second grader lives locked inside a vault in diapers, with no human contact / parents and has no biological sense of cold/hot?

<< Comment #29 @ 11:43 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #28

At least that's how i grew up. Dunno why it should be wrong for anyone else?!

<< Comment #33 @ 11:57 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #29

Is there a point to this?

<< Comment #37 @ 12:56 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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becks - Reply to #28

my friend has three kids. Oldest is 14 by now.

and if you actually had contact with children you would know that they base most of their decision o how they feel like and not logical arguments. And if they do think it makes sense it doesn't mean it really does.

E.g. When I was around seven or eight I decided it would be smart to put on my school clothes before going to bed. Would save time in the morning :P

How about this: We ask nicky, she's got kids ;)

<< Comment #43 @ 14:56 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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Nicky - Reply to #37

kids do what is easy for them at the time, they dont think of the consequences of their actions.

if this was me in this position i wouldn't want my child to be put under the pressure of having to make such a huge decision at that ago. IMO it should be the parents that choose the outcome, after all its the parents that know the child best and have her interests at heart not the doctors and not the courts

<< Comment #61 @ 17:28 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #43

May I ask you what would of been your opinion had the child wanted the operation, but not her parents?

<< Comment #65 @ 18:44 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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Nicky - Reply to #61

then then parents need a good talking to. bugs me when ppl refuse stuff on religious grounds etc

<< Comment #44 @ 15:09 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #37

Contrary to your belief I actually have experienced childhood. What you described about intuitive decisions, in my experience, can easily be applied to most adults aswell. Should government or someone else have the right to interfere in their cases aswell?

<< Comment #52 @ 16:05 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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becks - Reply to #44

I'm more and more believing you still are in your childhood.

<< Comment #56 @ 16:55 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #52

I childishly dream about freedom, equality and human rights :/

<< Comment #59 @ 17:12 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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becks - Reply to #56

you were the one who didn't want immigration, yet you pretend to believe in equality.

sounds childish to me, yes

<< Comment #63 @ 17:39 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #59

After basically writing an article about it for you how I would want to start a new immigration program that would integrate through freemarkets having the greatest benefit for all parties.

If you talk about the humanitarian immigration - How is it equality that we single out 4-5000 people out 190 million and give them all the luxuries while everyone else leaves there to suffer, while turning our backs to the reason of their suffering?

<< Comment #25 @ 10:47 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #21

And you're a pretty stupid 18-25 year old.

<< Comment #30 @ 11:46 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #25

I wasn't talking to you, helper monkey.

<< Comment #31 @ 11:50 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #30

yeah, as if becks needs help to tear your stupid theoretical assumptions about childhood apart.

<< Comment #32 @ 11:56 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #31

Theoretical assumptions?

<< Comment #34 @ 11:58 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #32

indeed.

<< Comment #35 @ 12:03 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #34

So let me get this straight - there is no empiric evidence for the wild crazy theory that a typical 8-year-old (a person that has travelled to school and back for 1,5-2,5 years or so with all it's seasons) might know what to wear during cold winter?

Edited by Vernon Schillinger at 12:07 UTC, 13 November 2008

<< Comment #36 @ 12:07 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #35

you're such a thick cunt, you leave me speechless.

<< Comment #38 @ 12:59 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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becks - Reply to #35

oh wow you really are inexact.

the point was never whether a child might know that. It was whether you should never question it, even if the chioce is red sandals and a Peter Pan costume.

<< Comment #45 @ 15:11 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #38

There is a difference between If one is physically/intellectually capable
of executing these tasks and whether they are willing to.

For a reference, society expects 7-year-olds (may vary) to be accountable for their own actions
in the court of law.

<< Comment #50 @ 15:40 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #45

where? in what countries?

Edited by [mash] at 15:40 UTC, 13 November 2008

<< Comment #51 @ 16:04 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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becks - Reply to #45

There is a difference between If one is physically/intellectually capable
of executing these tasks and whether they are willing to.

yes great and where exactly did I imply intellectual ability??? Are you even able to stay ontopic??

[q]For a reference, society expects 7-year-olds (may vary) to be accountable for their own actions
in the court of law.

again not even close to what i was saying.
A) In this country it's 18 (in some cases 21) for full accountability.
B) This applies if the actions hurt someon else. not when the child is neglient of itself.

I bet you recite poems in a math exam...

<< Comment #55 @ 16:53 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #51

At Scotland it's the mentioned 8, I vividly remember my class about the law stuff in Finland where it was 7, but the punishment may have a major difference to adults. I can't find it with any quick keywords I tried. For law people, and of course for you because you gonna make a scene of it to cover your complete retardness about human development, it makes a world of difference. For the sake of argument it doesn't change fact that the law makes these people to distinguish right from wrong.

http://www.youngscot.org/channels/law/?ss=131...amp;ID=429

<< Comment #58 @ 17:11 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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becks - Reply to #55

"retardness about human developmen"

and another attempt at switching the topic.

discussions with you are becoming incredibly boring...

<< Comment #60 @ 17:23 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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becks - Reply to #55

oh and btw, "found guilty" is not the same as either punished and/or "held accountable"

<< Comment #41 @ 14:38 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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voodoochopstiks - Reply to #35

This is obviously a symptom of paedophilia. Overrating kids rationality -> Just like thinking kids can love you.

Hi Paedo.

<< Comment #42 @ 14:55 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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becks - Reply to #41

hahaha

<< Comment #46 @ 15:12 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #41

Weren't you the one supporting gay marriage? Just a thought...

<< Comment #48 @ 15:22 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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voodoochopstiks - Reply to #46

? Please continue.

<< Comment #49 @ 15:31 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #48

Obviously a symptom.

<< Comment #54 @ 16:47 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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voodoochopstiks - Reply to #49

Of respecting the right of bi & homosexuals?

<< Comment #57 @ 16:56 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #54

Yet I'm not respecting the rights of children?

<< Comment #64 @ 18:28 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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voodoochopstiks - Reply to #57

Bi/homosexuals aren't insane. Children are.

<< Comment #66 @ 18:59 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #64

Bi/homosexuals aren't insane. Children are.

You're lying...

...I bet there's some insane swedes.

<< Comment #74 @ 00:27 UTC, 19 November 2008 >>

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voodoochopstiks - Reply to #66

? Dun get :(

<< Comment #67 @ 19:05 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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mammon - Reply to #46

I am taking the Stallman (GNU guy) stance on gay marriage. Allowing it would piss off exactly the type of people I detest with a passion (conservatives and religious nuts) so I just have to support it. Not sure about them adopting kids tho, cant quite avoid the bias in raising them.

<< Comment #69 @ 20:10 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #67

Yeah but disallowing it might turn the majority against them. The less hip-cool image for brainless young people they have, the more they're digging their own grave. Something to think about. I personally would love to see the whole middle-eastern cult to ski to a fuck from this country and the whole western civilisation.

http://www.pimpmybible.com/

<< Comment #39 @ 13:06 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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becks - Reply to #31

no no, it's alright.

I like to leave the easy stuff to my disciples ;P

<< Comment #40 @ 13:18 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #39

i wonder what he'll come up with to disprove the fact that children are unreasonable.

<< Comment #47 @ 15:13 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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DamianLillard - Reply to #40

Or disprove flying teapot orbiting the mars.

<< Comment #77 @ 01:18 UTC, 24 November 2008 >>

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tourist - Reply to #40

childern may be unreasonable but they're not brainless. a child can have a very good idea about things, often time better than the adult. If this girl spent more than half of her life in hospital I say she has a pretty damn good idea what it's about. agreed?

<< Comment #78 @ 01:37 UTC, 24 November 2008 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #77

agreed.

Edited by [mash] at 01:38 UTC, 24 November 2008

<< Comment #10 @ 15:22 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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skint '

and how exactly were they planning to do the op if the it had gone to court and hospital won? hold her down and pull her heart out?? kinda barbaric

<< Comment #13 @ 17:26 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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jonte - Reply to #10

they could slip her a mickey

<< Comment #11 @ 15:49 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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Kaloos

It's her decision and it's a good one : plz DIE litlle girl :D

<< Comment #17 @ 20:44 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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voodoochopstiks - Reply to #11

. . .......

<< Comment #18 @ 21:17 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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Kaloos - Reply to #17

Hey i'm just joking :p

Seriously i think that her parents are pretty irresponsible and that they should force her to do this operation ...

<< Comment #20 @ 03:04 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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baron Railgun - Reply to #18

fuck off

<< Comment #53 @ 16:19 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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Kaloos - Reply to #20

why h8 ?

<< Comment #62 @ 17:34 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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baron Railgun - Reply to #53

better h8 than hi5
both not my trouble, anyway

<< Comment #19 @ 21:25 UTC, 12 November 2008 >>

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timmah

Needs moar House imo

<< Comment #22 @ 04:03 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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ddk - Reply to #19

yea too bad she has a diagnosis already .. :P

<< Comment #27 @ 10:53 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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Raist - Reply to #22

But you know how it always goes with House.

If a patient is diagnosed before being admitted to House. X doctor who made that diagnose is wrong.

SO GO HOUSE

<< Comment #70 @ 22:59 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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Reyn1r - Reply to #27

GO,

It's lupus.

<< Comment #73 @ 16:49 UTC, 17 November 2008 >>

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timmah - Reply to #70

You are wrong, it is MS

Edited by timmah at 16:50 UTC, 17 November 2008

<< Comment #75 @ 02:17 UTC, 19 November 2008 >>

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Ignignokt - Reply to #73

It's always lupus.

<< Comment #76 @ 15:23 UTC, 23 November 2008 >>

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rahzei - Reply to #75

Wrong, Vitamin D deficiency

<< Comment #68 @ 19:34 UTC, 13 November 2008 >>

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Shrike

surely she can get a trip to disnleyland out of this ... or was that her plan all along ?

<< Comment #71 @ 04:48 UTC, 14 November 2008 >>

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erok

Considering there's a good chance she will further complicate her health and chance of survival by going through with the operation...I don't see why it's a big deal if she chooses not to go through with it. I think she is old enough to make a decision like this, especially considering the amount of experience she already has with health care. Since the heart has a better chance of saving someone else in need rather than herself, I think it's rather respectable she chooses to give it to someone else.

<< Comment #72 @ 10:43 UTC, 17 November 2008 >>

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AHXNXA

what if she will be a serial killer when she grows up?!?!¤?¤! i think very good he die now :p

<< Comment #85 @ 19:36 UTC, 24 November 2008 >>

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pizz

life is made of choices, she made her own choice and i think she is a very brave girl. I'm guessing she just can't fucking take it anymore and dying from a heart attack ain't the worst thing isit?

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