when u say XP I am thinking operating system

http://www.acronymfinder.com/XP.html

i think about in-game experience, not the kinda level-up bs hes talking about.

same

Forum titles are limited to 40 characters :c

I would say, that popular mainstream games like Call of Duty and Battlefield made it a standard for modern FPS shooters. It's like Halo introducing regenerating shield/hp instead of throwing out medpacks/armors on the map like we were used from DooM/Quake. It's not something that can make a shit-game good, but it's certainly something that can attract more people and keep them interested in the game. It also depends on weather the XP system grant's you bonuses like new weapon-skins or achivements or if it actually gives you an advantage over the other players who didn't reach your xp-level yet, like better weapons, more hp/ap, faster reload, etc.

On a sidenote, QLRanks isn't a xp-system its a ELO Ranking, it's more like the Ladders in SCII/BLC/LoL and doesn't affect the game itself, where as an xp-system would be a vital part in the actual gameplay.

TL;DR : Yes XP-Systems have become a standard amongst most of the modern FPS and I think we will see them in future Quakes/DooMs too, hopefully they won't unbalance the actual gameplay like they do in CoD 5+.

Yup. Unfortunate and simply bizarre in my mind.

Its like hey people that play hockey if you play 2 seasons worth you can get better equipment or an illegally curved stick... kinda weird analogy but its the same kind of thing in my eyes and its really really stupid. Competitive FPS gaming is a thing of the past.

Competitive FPS gaming is a thing of the past.

I really wish this wasn't the case, but I can't find any counter-arguments.

:(

Thousands of players are competing in FPS games every day, what are you talking about? Being big in esports and money isn't what it is all about when it comes to competitive gaming. Though at least shootmania could be a candidate for future major esport events.

That hockey analogy could only have come from a Canadian. :p

Well i feel like im getting biased here for talking abou team fortress 2 competitive scene, but, the game kinda works like that in pubs you have achievments you earn new weapons etc etc

then in comp you only allowed to use mostly default weapons

at least it promotes people playing with friends and trying to get the new reskins and stuff (and yeah most of the new weapons are shit)

XP/Progression could actually turn out decent in Quake.

Let's say there's some alternate reality where Quake 5 is made. I think that this alternate reality Q5 could successfully make use of progression to ease people into the game. Say for levels 1-5 the matchmaker only puts you on maps with no RG or LG. It simplifies things a bit and avoids the issue of locking content. Instead of just not letting you unlock RG til level 5, you just never get to play a map that has RG until then. Technically there is still locked content, but everyone is equal because even a player who is past level 5 will still be without LG/RG on those maps.

And as for the "unlocks," obviously more maps would be unlocked as you level, but I believe all maps should be unlocked very early as locking maps is primarily to force players to play with a limited weaponset. After that unlocks could be playermodels, weapon skins, special sounds, logos, idk. Cosmetic stuff that is nice and gives you a new thing to look at but doesn't actually put a level 1 player at any disadvantage vs level 10

obviously, yes. this is why QL is such a failure. theres nothing motivating new players to stick around and continue playing. of course, it needs to be done right, which will never happen in the hands of the current development team behind it.

The easier accessible an FPS is, the more people will try it. If people can unlock certain things to make the game easier for them by putting time in = instant win. Why? It closes the skill gap between the 1337 and the newbs. No-one wants to put time in a game where he gets raped 60-0 by some guy in 15 minutes. Is it because people don't want to try anymore? It seems to me that more and more people tend to flow towards the path of least resistance. Just need time to get this and this weapon to beat this guy? Just do it.

Unless a new game rises which the public would see as the "ultimate fps", which would be a really highskilled and raw FPS game, I have given up hope for another good fps game which would be popular and competitive at the same time. :/

people are competitive and xp provides some kind of a competitive feeling since they cant beat some1 in-game they might as well have an edge by having something that the opponent doesnt have thus giving him a chance to win.

"oh look!! i have 10 000 points so I must be a better player than you, HA!"

It's just a huge dick-waddling into someone's e-face.

A game just having a "Win of the day" bonus is enough for my friends to keep going onto a game and play. They might not even play the game anymore, but they will still go on once to get their win of the day.

ppl played qw without selfdevelopment crap, they just felt it will happen someday, and they played better and better

We can see QL shifting towards this direction

What does this mean, what have I missed?

The implementation of awards -
Accumulate x frags.
Accumulate x hours of time played.
Accumulate 6 hours of gameplay in one day.
Play for 10 minutes, completing at least 1 game each day for 28 days
etc

It's far from, let's say, blacklight retribtion which has several RPG elements and also an online shop for virtual items. What I'm wondering is, how would quake 5 look like with all this FPS games implementing said elements.

It is crazy.

think it's just that giving people a sense of 'progression' and the idea that they are 'earning' something is an easier and very effective way of holding their interest, compared with creating a game that actually remains fun to play for its own sake.

It's not that crazy, people just seem to prefer social gaming (posting results on FB) rather than actual skill in videogames.

Giving them a sense of progression is what hooks people.

Competitive TF2 is more popular because it has a way for the bad players to contribute without feeling like they are actually bad (medic).

if you were completely oblivious youd probably have more of an impact as a pyro than fucking up ubers on medic tbh

It is an easy way to reward people for playing which in turn will increase the frequency of them playing (even if the game itself is crap). Also if you focus on gaining XP, you can only win: make progression and increase your status in the community. Measuring progress as in winning games versus strong opponents can be way more frustrating, as every quake player should have experienced in his gaming career.

xp sucks, never use it or pay any attention to any weapon addon or extra running speed you get

better off just having a syndicate buy setup menu

Rewards are ok, but you should always have the option to just ignore all rewards, and such rewards should not affect gameplay. You should have everything unlocked if you paid for the game, or if the game is free to play.

there would be no point, the game might aswell just be the final boss

XP adds life to pub servers with announcer always saying something new, you dont actually earn any extras, you get them every couple of seconds in most games and you just dont care, then they dont get carried over to the next game, so it all starts again

Sickening!

depends how rewards are used, most games XP sucks serious ass

setup player like syndicate/BF, and have rewards and extras with large number of XP and rewards far and few between and carried over to the next map, it wouldnt be so bad

most rewards and unlocks are too obvious and you know you are going to receive them

games like quakewars that have arcade XP suck, you dont care about having 2 extra bullets in a pistol clip, and running speed, and a 1000 other small worthless things to add vocal life to a game

Having played the Firefall beta for a while, I feel pretty confident in explaining why people/noobs like XP and why that type of game seems to gain more players than "real" fps games.

1) Games with gear/xp give you an incentive to keep on playing to improve your power.

2) Once you have achieved more power you tend to keep playing since you can often totally dominate new players.

3) Even though you might not enjoy the game as much, you tend to justify keep playing, since you've already invested quite an amount of time in your character.


And to make it clear, XP in a "competitive eSport" which is what the makers of Firefall are going for, is pointless. Even the slightest difference in starting power is unfair and has no place in a competitive environment. The makers of Firefall keep saying that "it's only a few percent advantage" etc, but imagine if one football team was allowed to start with an additional player on the field. Statistically that's only 9% increase in power, but as everyone knows, one extra player is a huge difference.

Same in Firefall. There is a HUGE difference between having an epic sniper rifle that can oneshot people, and a normal sniper rifle that only gets people to 5% health.

Just googled up firefly. Are they seriously aiming to make this game competitive?

Yes. But there are plenty of things that just don't seem eSport-like. For instance, they just added randomness to the shots of one of the classes. In addition to that, they increased the randomness when firing while airborne. Increasing randomness kinda shows they don't really know what they are doing in regards to making the game competitive.

Also, something that's fun is that they are making a tiered matchmaking system "So that everyone gets to play against equal opponents gear/level-wise". When you think about that sentence, the whole principle of gear/levels gets really stupid.
They go to great length to minimize the gear/level difference, then why even have gear/level differences in the first place?

Then you add stuff like inbuilt semi-wallhack. You can press a button when targeting an enemy and then that enemy gets an icon above his head (think Impressive icon from quake). But the thing is, the ENTIRE enemy team can see that icon THROUGH ALL WALLS. So because someone pressed F two minutes ago, the entire enemy team can see exactly where you are. I THINK the idea of that wallhack "feature" is that you can relay CURRENT enemy positions to your team without writing anything. And if the icon disappeared when the enemy went out of LOS or after a few seconds, it would be fine. But currently you're basically a sitting duck, because someone on the opposing team spammed F two minutes ago.
The fact that the ability is spammable makes it even more stupid. There is really no reason not to spam F constantly, so I downloaded a keypress program that sent F each 20ms. That means that whenever I mouseover an enemy, intentionally or not, me and my entire team can see that enemy through walls.
Awesome.
And I don't know if it's a bug, but you can also use the ability on dead people before they respawn, and then you can see where they are instantly as they spawn.
Pretty retarded.

So, basically, it's a decent enough game, but it has some "features" that probably arent completely finished yet. But regardless, the company behind the game have made too many design decisions that are the exact opposite of making the game competitive.

Blacklight retribution has the same kind of "semi-wallhack", I don't even know how and why is it supposed to be used...

ET had XP and ET was awesome

xp in et worked differently though. the fundamental principle in modern fps games like bf3 or codN is to have extremely shallow gameplay with a low skill ceiling to attract a large audience and have leveling up and perk unlocking simulate improvement/gaining skill. its the same design principle popularized by world of warcraft, and its the cancer that is killing competitive fps.

thats fine, my point is that XP can be implemented in ways that are better than the ones that make us cringe. and even the ET style XP gives the same sense of progression. of course, when it resets it feels bad, but that is what xpsave is for xD

and look at tribes ascend, that is a competitive fps with some sort of XP system. seems to be working, they arnt dead yet xD

just wanted to add that the current awards system is awful. it feels completely out of touch with the actual game, and just seems like little to no effort has been put into it. an over the top XP system, imo, isnt necessarily a requirement to keep people playing, but obviously something, anything, motivational is.

so much more couldve been done with the awards system that they have put in place. same goes for a bunch of other things that feels like its just been pieced together on the web frontend.

QL awards are there to fill in the blank spot near the profile statistics.

Maybe in Quake Live every match you play gives you XP regardless and a bit more for winning. Then maybe it will unlock premium maps or game modes or even models and taunts etc haha.

EDIT: Though the way QL works this isn't even possible to implement anyway.

XP = ELO
there is your progress

ztn only is progress?????????

sure why not, it all in their mind.

well thats not very progressive

Elo doesn't grant you unfair advantages, like higher MG fire rate and such.