Rossiya! Only +forward! Never +back!

Welcome to Ukraine, nacist scum!

Oh, why didn't I see this topic earlier, I've a lot to say...

ukranian asks esr users...

so???

NATO is grabbing Russian butt, but Russia is not enchanted.

you sure NATO is doing something apart from nothing? :D

.

Thanks for your input.

Wait for image approval ;)

its really wrong if you think crimea is not russian territory, its like if say usa broke up and hawai or alaska was taken over by another country.

Kaliningrad is not russian territory

so, what does it have to do with crimea. ussr gave up huge lands in favor of pleasing usa orders of surrender in cold war.

ussr is gone, stop raping its corpse

ussr wasnt a collection of countries, it was all russia. many factories and important military objects were left outside. crimea is prime example, its an important strategic object that serves for security of all russia, mainly for keeping caucasus safe.

>ussr wasnt a collection of countries, it was all russia

When christianization of Kievan Rus was occurred - there was only croaking toads at place of Moscow, you know

So feel free to burn your imperial chauvinism handbook

kievan rus was bruned down like 1000 years ago.

So you are agreed with croaking toads? =)

Anyway, most of the people from Russia now has finno-ugric roots, just accept that

i am just going with lesser evil at this point. ukraine is part of russia, half of people want to be part of russia.

>ukraine is part of russia, half of people want to be part of russia

does anyone know about that? =)

have you ever heard about ukrainian government that was ruled by ukranians?

did you ever heard about russian government that was ruled not by imperialistic schizoids?

you are the one thats screwed if you think usa thinks better than russia how to rule your country.

you are right: no soviet russia directed by putler, now everyone is better that that

but you have to understand why usa doesnt like strong russia, usa did this to keep russia weak, not to help ukranians. they dont care if this results in a civil war, they are far away from this mess.

man, just one thing: russia has only strong weapons, nothing more, it is even loosed 1st rank in gas export (USA now 1st)
All technologies belongs to the 'west'. Еxample: one of the 'newest' lithography equipment (130-nm) was bought some years ago from AMD - while newest equipment works with 22-nm process. Russia doesn't have high-precision machine-tools at all. Almost every russian scientist dreaming to get 'green card' and go to USA, away from total inferiority and poverty. I can continue to the infinity.

you are still naively thinking that usa will treat all the former ussr people as equals when they really have no use for anyone except 1 percent of the skilled workers, the rest are slaves like the ones that used from africa not so long ago.

this is not about 1% people, this is about how to stop new hitler with his 'new order'

to measure how 'strong' russia now - just go to shop and count russian-made goods, I'm sure that you will be 'surprised' even with food

so you are saying usa is anti-hilter with all its wars that it fights across the globe.

Open your eyes: rest of the world is anti-hitler, you are alone with your small dictator

russia is on defense, there was no war that russia fought as invader since 1991, there simply isnt any resources in the army to act agressively, russia is very concerned that ukranian government is going to be used by nato to attack russia in the near future (many cases in world history of west attacking russia, including proxy wars during cold war), which is why this conflict in donbass region is going on,

No, you: "Russia could be excluded from G8"
Relax and enjoy new North Korea life =)

since when i have to enjoy anything at all, i can move anywhere i want like any normal citizen.

sure, you can move, for now
sure, you can buy modern gadgets, for now
sure, you can think that you are free, for now

So, say goodbye to visa/mastercard, also say goodbye to foreign internet-shopping, more 'improvements' will come soon

But you can proudly say hello to USSR =)

Heh funny... what do you think is worse... having less contracts and money got from banks to use their cards or for people loosing one way to spend money? Actually those sanctions are really sweet - the more our "1337" bank accounts are blocked - the more money will stay within the country but not offshore.
Russia is finno-ugric roots?)) Reading Yarosh bullshit? It is, but around 15-20%. Man you are 30... I mean when I visited Ukraine for the first time in 1988 it was way more developed - I'm saying for Lviv and Crimea which I can compare seeing with my own eyes... after 1988 I visit Crimea on my own every year since 2002 and there is almost no development... or you consider shops and internet as an industry? For 20 years Ukraine was just gradually loosing if not destroing the industry created in USSR and you flaming it - are you just blind or dumb? what are you protecting - a bunch of oligarch families which are getting a limelight one after another and claiming they are the ones who think of people, I can understand the overall disappointment by Ukranian policy, but its paranoya to blame Russia for all sins (atleast economic and political), you can for Crimea but what do you expect from Russia when you go into EU trade association and NATO? Understanding that its a Ukranian people choice? In theory I can understand suicides but atleast when a body doesn't fall from 100th floor up on my head.

>Actually those sanctions are really sweet

Actually this is a very light sanctions, for now

>or for people loosing one way to spend money?

nobody wants your blood money

>after 1988 I visit Crimea on my own every year since 2002 and there is almost no development

you know why? because pro-russian government ruled there for last 23 years, now we have radically new one and they (crimean politics) simply afraid to be jailed for their last-years 'work'

>For 20 years Ukraine was just gradually loosing if not destroing the industry created in USSR and you flaming it

those industrialization cost of million people life, don't worship that

>but its paranoya to blame Russia for all sins

there is few dedicated sins (occupation,trade war), blaming for all sins is your paranoia

>what do you expect from Russia when you go into EU trade association and NATO

EU trade is our sovereign choice, GTFO.
Also, nobody wanted in NATO until occupation - this is a fact, but now even Finland want - this is completely latest Russia' 'achievement'

>Actually this is a very light sanctions, for now
I dont think EU or USA would like to loose money just to show Russia its place or to maintain the image of Ukranian friend... imo sanctions will remain cosmetic to show that measures are taken

>nobody wants your blood money
I disagree, because current economic model is based on consumption so economy is measured mostly on GDP and it needs markets with people spending money... EU sure wants Ukranian 45 mln people to sell stuff, but not to loose trade flow with Russia either

>because pro-russian government ruled there for last 23 years
If it was so the referendum would have happened in early 90s, like during Meshkov who wanted to do it in 1994 and was dismissed soon after and banned from entering Ukraine. If it was pro-Russian already why Aksenov was appointed?

>those industrialization cost of million people life, don't worship that
I dont, but is it really better to destroy it and live with something like agriculture and some car assembling business.

>occupation,trade war... EU trade is our sovereign choice, GTFO.
It is your sovereign choice, which strikes Russia directly economicwise... then why dont you respect Russian sovereign choice to determine gas prices, customs procedures on the same terms as with EU (WTO), construct alternative pipelines, aviation construction facilities which were bought in Ukraine, refuse to give credits etc...

I mean no offence, I just cant understand how it'll work... from what I see - Ukraine has a big trade balance deficit already which is covered by credits with interest rate (it means it earns less money then it spends). Current debt for credit interests - 4 bln, gas debt - 2 bln, for current gas and oil supply - 10 bln, penalty for unused gas under Timoshenko contracts - 10 bln, december euro bonds - 3 bln... Cover with what? 1 bln from USA, 20 bln from world bank which is probably will be given gradually in 20 years? Ah and btw Ukraine needs money not only to pay for debts but to live for and to meet EU requirements to have a possibility to enter EU which is estimated 120-400 bln...

I'd rather see this kind of forecast - after joining EU trade zone, most trade conditions with Russia would lost benefits - the manufacturers would die or try to reorganize, but EU doesnt need Ukranian goods except for cheap metal mostly. So no money for gas, around 20% of unemployed people etc, I even doubt sufficient credits...
Then eastern regions without any invasion or push from Russian side will arise and be happy to join cruel dictate of Russia or claim economic independance with boarders saved... If government would use force to stop people by killing some - then even west will have to support Russian moves to stop it, mark my word. Still I hope for some other magic way and it'll stay somehow as it is.

>I dont think EU or USA would like to loose money

They don't want to lose territory even more, so choice is obvious

>I disagree

Sure, but problem is that putler think in the same way so ^^^^

>If it was pro-Russian already why Aksenov was appointed?

This 'war' was planned on 2015, but Maidan ruined timeline, our military forces was specially corrupted for last 4 years. Aksenov has gangster nickname 'Goblin', he is a good marionette, nothing more

>I dont, but is it really better to destroy it and live with something like agriculture and some car assembling business.

Agree with you, I don't like old unprofitable chemistry factories that just pollutes air

>It is your sovereign choice, which strikes Russia directly economicwise...

fact is that Russia really strikes our economics in past year before signing any documents to force us to join in trade union -- by declaring some fake claims to Roshen, closing borders etc.

>then why dont you respect Russian sovereign choice to determine gas prices, customs procedures on the same terms as with EU (WTO), construct alternative pipelines, aviation construction facilities which were bought in Ukraine, refuse to give credits etc...

Russia already increased gas price so now its cheaper to buy it in EU lol

Also, don't count debit/credits now because we can and we will sue Russia for occupation, and we will win because its direct and obvious aggression. And total bill can easy exceed $ 100 billions

>Then eastern regions without any invasion or push from Russian side will arise and be happy to join cruel dictate of Russia or claim economic independance with boarders saved...

First: most of the eastern regions are very depressive and unprofitable (just like Crimea)
Second: they will look on Crimea for some short time and will never join to Russia
Third: there is no single law for that, also it is on continental part - so another 'crimea spring' will probably sink in blood

Well, we expressed enough our views so what can I say - we will see...

Concearning last point -
with first I agree but it doesnt change the probability of their will for economic independance or desire to join Russia even being depressive and unprofitable.
Second - we'll see, I think the effect will be opposite.
Third - 1. The very first law as for global human rights is self-determination, even far less legitimate case of Kosovo was adopted by US and EU (its almost the same if Turkish people in Germany would claim to give them a part of Germany to live independently).
At first there is no a single law for rada to dismiss a president.
Its up to Ukraine to explain the eastern regions in a peaceful way the benefits of the new way etc

1) there is no single law that allows that, i.e. it will be totally isolated like Crimea now. Or get ready to lose Kaliningrad or St.Peterburg for example.
2) most of the so called pro-russian protesters came from Russia http://ipress.ua/ru/news/flag_rossyy_nad_hark...51452.html
3) there was ethnic kills so not comparable with Crimea at all. But IMO ethnic kills will start now, but after so called 'referendum'
4) president withdrew from executing his constitutional duties, killed a lot of people, escaped to Russia, stoled few $ billions from our economics. Rada is fully legitimate after his escape - every government instance confirming that now.

1. I dont quite understand what you mean, if Kaliningrad was populated by Germans and wanted to rejoin with de by referendum - then yes they could... otherwise whats your point?
2. Wheres the proof for "most"... and please dont give .ua links atleast I try not to prove something with russian media.
3. I compare eastern regions with Crimea only in terms of probability of massive denial of new government.
4. Kills 20.02 should be investigated first. Escape, kills, steals can be reasons but its still not the law... the law is referendum and elections, or elections in case assasination what could happen if he didn't escape. Confirm legitimacy)) ok e.g. give a drunkard 10 bucks he will confirm that he is an alien from mars. Anyone can confirm anything if he has personal interest in outcome.

Planned bump. You still need answers to your questions now?

Are you speaking about Russian "plan" to conquer Ukraine which is probably the only thing ukranian media try to show nowadays? Or about the "fact" that eastern protestors are all from Russia?

Time will remove quotes, it is good that you found answers by yourself

Well I keep tracking ukranian media universe, I like sci-fi

Here is the truth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbQKwjLJQn8
Here is an example of bullshit that you eat every day: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=64441402...mp;theater

Take second blue pill, Neo, to be sure

Well, again what are you trying to prove?
First video says what? Those are russians? Right sector or who? It says nothing, the date says nothing - the content may be whatever your media want - russian agents kill civilians, alkaeda terrorists attack, right sector kill people near Donetsk... whatever...

The second video - do you see such things for the first time when government try to hide mistakes or real reasons? Every country does that with accidental military intercources, airplane crushes, etc...

Ukranian media is liberal and fair? Where are the investigations and news about kills in february both protestors and berkut? Around 170 died... is it not that important as searching for russian agents?...Shitty Avakov presentation and thats it?

While you and your media searching for russian agents and discussing Putin plan to conquer the Universe, ukranian economy if falling down so fast and government does so nothing... except for blaming Russia and begging for credits, maybe its better to pay attention to that? Or its not that fascinating?


If you like ukranian (Valtsman and Firtash) media, and enjoy Valtsman as president ... whats the problem? Live you happy life and leave our media alone.

http://tyzhden.ua/News/103674
http://rus.newsru.ua/ukraine/03mar2014/vitko.html
http://newzz.in.ua/main/1148910061-russkie-ch...kryma.html
http://gazeta.ua/ru/articles/politics/_smi-u-...ult/533557
http://elive.com.ua/atomnyj-avianosec-dzhordz...rnoe-more/
http://ru.tsn.ua/politika/pereodetye-v-ukrain...52934.html
http://www.unian.net/politics/896097-v-kryimu...voysk.html
http://ru.tsn.ua/politika/zaderzhannyy-rossiy...56073.html
http://www.unian.net/politics/895781-letchiko...ntsam.html
http://ru.tsn.ua/politika/v-smi-poyavilsya-pl...56615.html
http://www.e-news.in.ua/info/5694-kak-vrut-uk...analy.html

>First video says what? Those are russians? Right sector or who? It says nothing, the date says nothing - the content may be whatever your media want - russian agents kill civilians, alkaeda terrorists attack, right sector kill people near Donetsk... whatever...

Sure, it was Right Sector, your goebbels-tv can't be wrong. For rest people, who still has some brains: http://www.poltava.pl.ua/news/27588/

>The second video - do you see such things for the first time when government try to hide mistakes or real reasons? Every country does that with accidental military intercources, airplane crushes, etc...

Sure, it was a 'mistake', just like that: http://oleglurie-new.livejournal.com/164037.html

>Ukranian media is liberal and fair? Where are the investigations and news about kills in february both protestors and berkut?

So you really think that our media should perform investigation instead of corresponding experts?

>http:

Did you understand difference between lie, fact and rumors? Your media is a whole propaganda shit stream. Also, did you know that there is, for example, no live politic shows in sovietrussia at all? I even can tell you why: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbPceHNIKsM

>If you like ukranian (Valtsman and Firtash) media, and enjoy Valtsman as president ... whats the problem? Live you happy life and leave our media alone.

It is really fun to read your propaganda-based opinion about events that I can see directly from my window in some cases.

Just remember one simple thing: propaganda always wins

You are funny really.
http://www.poltava.pl.ua/news/27588/
Tell me what proves in this article or in video - who makes shooting? You build up your guesses to the "facts" - it is a compilation of video, fotos and text. Yes I see the video with people and guns, yes I hear shots but dont see them, yes I see article with photos... Where are the facts that these people are Slaviansk defence forces?

Well I know that your media now is all about digging such facts, no one says that in Russia and any other country there are no criminals even in police.

Media could pay atleast some attention and maybe even investigate, when government does nothing, interviews with wounded berkut soldiers... something... now even the trees with bullets are cut on institutskaya street... they just ignore as if it didn't happen.

I know that there are live politic shows in ukraine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snz70jlmKKY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m3oy6oOMQ0

Propaganda about what? That ukranian media belong to oligarchs who use it in their interests?
http://finance.bigmir.net/news/economics/2874...FOGRAFIKA-

What is really fun - maidan is obviously the first political experience for you, because you dont understand geopolitics and history at all. Your idea is - catch small dirty pieces of facts and build your opinion using them and try to prove me something. If you watch wider on US, EU and Russia concearning who benefit from splitting Ukraine or its integrity, you would certainly have another opinion about Russia. I don't need russian or ukranian media to understand what's happening because there are hundreds of examples in the past which are copies of ukranian scenario.

Few weeks ago putler said that there is no russian military forces in Crimea, now SUDDENLY he saying opposite - so you still need some official-declared shit to believe in what you see? Its very easy to dig a tons of such facts, but I guess that you will just whine 'can't= believe-dat-iz-fotoshop'

Many berkut bastards escaped to Russia (same as president and few ministers) - why you don't want to extracting them to us? Rhetoric question =)

>Propaganda about what? That ukranian media belong to oligarchs who use it in their interests?

Firtash & Akpmetov are pro-russian. So there is no single line comparing to total russian 'odobriams!'. Also, we have Hromadske which is very popular now and you can't compare it with anything world-wide

>maidan is obviously the first political experience for you

You have fake extrasensory diploma

>I don't need russian or ukranian media to understand what's happening because there are hundreds of examples in the past which are copies of ukranian scenario.

Then you must remember one famous hitler speech and also what financial factor caused USSR collapse counting that USSR was less dependent on that factor than Russia today.
Also USA now actively selling their *i* futures - ask your near economist about masked letters and what will be after that 8-)

Ok, I see that its pointless to explain you similarities with Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria etc... let it be that Russia is going to conquer Ukraine with dead economy and huge debt probably to pay it back and invest there instead of our economy...sure it looks rational.

There was no USSR collapse... and no natural financial or economic factors... The most important factor was an outdated structure of party management which didnt bring new people and allowed a group of pro US politicians to get to power ... it was Jakovlev, Andropov, Gorbachev etc... who started deliberate destruction in early 80s. Only afrer that there was a disproportion in economy so US used it negotiated with Saudi Arabia exchanging oil prices on dollar credits... but still it wasn't crucial if some measures were taken. There was no collapse, it was destruction from inside, with a little help from outside.

>Ok, I see that its pointless to explain you similarities with Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria etc..

Don't tell anything about things you don't understand. For example, there was ethnic conflict in Yugoslavia - in what way you can compare it with Ukraine?

>let it be that Russia is going to conquer Ukraine with dead economy and huge debt probably to pay it back and invest there instead of our economy...sure it looks rational.

Lol =) How can you invest in Ukraine while your own province just sinking in shit? You already lose $150B (in terms of money not counting zero-level prestige) after Crimea occupation - guess who will pay for that? =)

>The most important factor was an outdated structure of party management which didnt bring new people and allowed a group of pro US politicians to get to power

Not counting part about 'US politicians' - you really think that modern Russia is better? Then I have bad news for you...

Sure etnic conflict is the main reason... like terrorists is the main reason in Iraq, chemical weapons in Syria, nuclear strikes in Iran, dictator in Libya... now I got it and US helped them, thanks for revelation

>Lol =) How can you invest in Ukraine while your own province just sinking in shit? You already lose $150B (in terms of money not counting zero-level prestige) after Crimea occupation - guess who will pay for that? =)

I just wonder what sources do you use for this economic evaluation? When did we lose 150B? The investment plan for Crimea is 2B, current social payments are 27m, while we have 500B reserves. Or you still think that Ukraine will sue Russia for Crimea and get 100B?

What do you mean by "better"? There are dozens of things that were better in USSR till 1980. Some things are better now, generally I really like the way we go... If you mean our export dependance on gas and oil - its not that easy as in late 80s. Feel free to share your bad news... I hear bad news every day, but I see good changes instead

>Sure etnic conflict is the main reason...

Read history

>I just wonder what sources do you use for this economic evaluation? When did we lose 150B? The investment plan for Crimea is 2B, current social payments are 27m, while we have 500B reserves. Or you still think that Ukraine will sue Russia for Crimea and get 100B?

Don't worry, we will sue, definitively, and win. If you not obey - we will just arrest and sell your airplanes, for example, there is a lot of totally legal ways to get money.

About $150B: here is just investments http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/zhu_s/17312967...iginal.png But you can still track 'patriotic' resources where everything is perfect, for now =)

>Some things are better now, generally I really like the way we go...

Now you are importing 2/3 of food, near 100% of consumer electronics, still can't build decent helicopter engines and even more: now you are using Altera (i.e. 'enemy') microchips in military helicopters, - it looks like you are just poorly informed about the way you really go =)

Arrest russian plane and sell? Man thats huge idea, aren't you head economist in UA government? Its the idea of their caliber

>About $150B
Just one index for you - positive trade balance and low federal debt = growing budget. http://www.cbr.ru/statistics/credit_statistic...=trade.htm
its lower than last year but far from being bad. When a country has something to sell, even with 0 investments it will still sell it.

We are importing so much food because of WTO, its a mistake, but it doesnt mean that we dont produce our. Sure we use asian electronics - its cheap, so why not, military PCs use asian components, but not more, schemes, assembly and soft is our, and for instance rockets use 100% russian electronics. US is 29% of world military sales, Russia is 27%. US use our space carrier rockets... Or you expect that a country should produce everything inside it?

>Arrest russian plane and sell? Man thats huge idea, aren't you head economist in UA government? Its the idea of their caliber

This is just one variant from many possible

>Just one index for you

Where is March data? I'm sure that April+ will be much 'positive' counting that many credit lines for your facilities now closed =)

>We are importing so much food because of WTO, its a mistake, but it doesnt mean that we dont produce our.

Sure you producing, 1/3 =)

>Or you expect that a country should produce everything inside it?

Iran was thinking similar 3 years ago, now look at them

>Where is March data? I'm sure that April+ will be much 'positive' counting that many credit lines for your facilities now closed =)

I know that its difficult to understand in your reality, but I HOPE that foreign credit lines will be less and less, and HOPE that sanctions will stimulate that - then we can finally nationalize our central bank and make ruble emissions without dollars. After that our companies will have Russian credits not at more than 8,5% but at 1% and less.

>Iran was thinking similar 3 years ago, now look at them

Maybe because they have embargo on trade? Dont you think so? I know that your theory is based on the idea that it happens naturally, but its not that difficult to google what Iran is allowed to sell and buy. If you think that its possible to isolate Russia without a blow up of Europe - then you are mistaken, even if EU decide to die just to make things worse for Russia, we can live off trading with China, India, Iran, Belarus, Kazakhstan etc... I know that sissy EU can cover US even with damage to their economy like bombing Serbia and then getting Euro slump, but its not infinite.

>I know that its difficult to understand in your reality, but I HOPE that foreign credit lines will be less and less, and HOPE that sanctions will stimulate that - then we can finally nationalize our central bank and make ruble emissions without dollars. After that our companies will have Russian credits not at more than 8,5% but at 1% and less.

Iran is a very good example of your 'hope', generally you are bad economist

>Maybe because they have embargo on trade?

Yes

>If you think that its possible to isolate Russia without a blow up of Europe - then you are mistaken, even if EU decide to die just to make things worse for Russia, we can live off trading with China, India, Iran, Belarus, Kazakhstan etc...

Maybe only russians estimate everything by money. There also very important thing you don't have anymore even in our eyes: reputation. Because now you are outlaws and occupants. Sure, you feel strong, but remember that this is not permanent state

Iran is a bad example - the scale is different, USSR is the only proper example but now its too different from soviet stagnation and now more countries are tired from being a dollar colony + dollar system is dying itself without a huge war, if US wont start something huge in 3-5 years - its over.

I know - USSR had good reputation when Gorbachev started his destruction, Russia had good reputation only in 90s when we gave US carte blanche giving them everything... When Putin came in and Russia got a bit stronger - the reputation goes down, its normal - why should they like stronger Russia?

Russians estimate by money? So you think USSR education is about money? First time ever I see such a "Russian" feature. Heh, maybe look what protestant is, watch endless US movies about stocks, how a person became "successful", watch what RNB clips show, what Federal Reserve System is etc...

>Iran is a bad example

Sure its bad, you don't want even to imagine such future =)

>Russians estimate by money?

Its obvious

>So you think USSR education is about money?

Do not compare whole USSR to your corrupted country. You already lose all its potential (same as Ukraine btw), almost nothing was left. Only corruption, lawlessness and high-level stupidity. We shifted our corrupted government because we can. While you can't. You killed out soldiers in Crimea, also some tatar guy. There was a lot of people under russian flags on Maidan. Now, after Crimea occupation, people crashing cars with russian numbers or even ukrainian cars with russian flags, I'm repeat - that all started only after Crimea occupation, so try to make some conclusions.

Well I already saw you impressions many times, when you will have some arguments to show - do please.

>We shifted our corrupted government because we can. While you can't.

Thanks god its not possible here now.

>Well I already saw you impressions many times, when you will have some arguments to show - do please.

Well, its so easy to point roskomnadzor even on this site, so I'm not sure that you will be able to hear/read anything 'bad' in future, catch the moment

>Thanks god its not possible here now.

s/god/putler/g

But generally I'm agree with you: that is geopolitics, and we don't want an will never be another federal region of Russia.

Crimea was already depressive and its starting to degrade even more now, no need to force anything from our side

No one needs Ukraine as federal region of Russia, afaik eastern regions want be a part of Ukraine but with a rights to choose economic direction themselves, russian language officially and to choose their government but not appointed oligarchs by Kiev.

Maybe I don't see how Crimea degrade, I know that it has temporary problems because its dependant on ukranian banking, water, energy and some business links

>No one needs Ukraine as federal region of Russia, afaik eastern regions want be a part of Ukraine but with a rights to choose economic direction themselves, russian language officially and to choose their government but not appointed oligarchs by Kiev.

http://ru-nsn.livejournal.com/4337069.html
http://censor.net.ua/photo_news/282007

Well, is that kind of source you use? Such a shit essay.. chekists))) killing in Volgograd our topol-m engineers - shit thats really rational and serves Putin interests))

Read atleast first comment to your article of more or less adequate man

Did you hear latest lavrov' speech? Pretty good source of lie

>Read atleast first comment to your article of more or less adequate man

I'm just getting tired to reply to your propaganda-based bullshit, I will try to explain you why it is:

>No one needs Ukraine as federal region of Russia, afaik eastern regions want be a part of Ukraine but with a rights to choose economic direction themselves, russian language officially and to choose their government but not appointed oligarchs by Kiev.

About 'language': I'm already answered that there is no problems with any language in our country so this is a pure speculations to direct from solving any real problems

About choose 'their government' and oligarchs: did you know that yanuchesku created one of the most corrupted and vertically-controlled (I hope you understand that term) government? how this connects with your point of view? did you know that he assigned additional rights to himself violating our laws? did you know that his son became $multi-millionaire in 3 years having just dentist education? did you hear about kurchenko who became $billionaire is 27 years by stealing budget money? did you hear about 'kopanki', 'Vradyivka', etc.? I'm sure you don't. So don't try to talk about things you just heard on your goebbels-tv
http://npubop.livejournal.com/1941873.html
http://irwi99.livejournal.com/929327.html

What lie in Lavrov speech?

>About choose 'their government' and oligarchs

"their" I mean region should elect the parliament and the head. Not appointment by Kiev. I don't know how this idea is linked to Janukovich system. These regions cant trade with EU efficiently so they need proper customs conditions with Russia. I don't know what you mean by depressing regions, maybe you are psychologist there, but about their importance for ukranian budget - check last lines http://treasury.gov.ua/main/uk/doccatalog/list?currDir=212666 document dod22.xls.

About Lavrov lie and goebbels-tv and your understanding of situation.

Well I know why Jacenuk speaks shit - he's not an idiot, he's just bought and serves not Ukraine for sure http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i310x4ka2U0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbOwfeoDX2o
Why most western media lie - they serve US interests, even EU cant act opposite, they don't have guts to do so
http://oko-planet.su/politik/politiklist/2395...abrya.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxx-iV1Se0
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04/09/35788...-draitser/

But why you tell the same its a mistery... so many facts go apart with your view http://russian.rt.com/article/28590#ixzz2zQpz7yHS even your link showed that eastern protestors are not russian, concearning their will to use russian military forces - thats a bad idea for sure, because it can cause an international war conflict...

If you think that its all about ukranian sovereignty, joining EU and US wishing development to Ukraine, then I can spent some more time proving opposite. Then maybe you need more info to understand what happens, you can spend some time watching this kind of stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bzzUQjqjGU
Otherwise please stop trolling me by Putin checkists killing topol-m engineers, russian army going to Kiev, US investing and improving Ukraine, EU dreaming about 45 mln new people to feed and employ... etc

Fun facts:
http://focus.ua/society/303963/ - ua hire criminals and traitors? whatsup
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/04/21/65nm/ - well its not that dead))

>What lie in Lavrov speech?

So you even don't know what your ministers talking about....

>their" I mean region should elect the parliament and the head. Not appointment by Kiev.

Looks like you did not read my questions at all. Because yanuchesku government moved right in opposite direction all 4 years. And everyone was 'happy', sure. Making some claims to new government which is about 1-2 month old and slightly moving in this direction (yep, that is surprise for you) - did you find such 'sudden' protest a bit idiotic? Maybe real reason is that some thieves just afraid punishment after stealing few $billions from budget?

>About Lavrov lie and goebbels-tv and your understanding of situation.

By 'your' you mean 'rest of the world'? Ah, then ok =)

Another good explanation: http://echo.msk.ru/pda/blog/azar_i/1304646-echo/
Also, good example of putler' internals: http://ru.tsn.ua/ukrayina/shahtery-prezirayut...61697.html

Wow the shittest news agencies ever...
>http://ru.tsn.ua/ukrayina/shahtery-prezirayut...61697.html

look how they work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi6zAilApzA 0.30 - 0.50

Putin said: some resorts are not suitable to rest at the moment, they didn't pass the inspection. When we asked how people rested here - they (Crimean representatives) answered - what an ordinary miner needs - to drink and then swim, he doesnt care then.

That is what your liberal media is about - shitty cuts, turning facts upside down.

>look how they work:

'mahnut tam pol-stakana i na plyazh' (c) putler

>That is what your liberal media is about - shitty cuts, turning facts upside down

Sure =) [img1]

English only.

>'mahnut tam pol-stakana i na plyazh'

Can you understand that these words were said by crimean representatives to russian sanitary comission? Or you are unable to listen?

Just like in this case: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wab2lQ4Dp_g
which now happens in Slayansk where so-called 'spontaneously organized self-defense forces' with russian weapons uses civils as live shield - otherwise they will be 'cleared' very, very fast, you know

Ukranian army uses ukranian weapons?))

Where are official facts of russian soldiers there? In Kharkiv 70 protestors were jailed a no a single russian passport... bad luck?

He said that russian troops are there? NO, so whats the point?

>Where are official facts of russian soldiers there?
>He said that russian troops are there? NO, so whats the point?

There was no 'official facts' of russian soldiers in Crimea before, until putler confirmed that so called referendum can't be made without them, oh... K.O. now unemployed =)

>In Kharkiv 70 protestors were jailed a no a single russian passport... bad luck?

Good luck: http://censor.net.ua/video_news/282059

If russians lie, whats the problem for the ukranian side to show some facts? Even in Geneva?

>Good luck: http://censor.net.ua/video_news/282059

And where is the proof?

Bump. Sure, can't provide directly but
http://censor.net.ua/video_news/283039
http://censor.net.ua/video_news/283023
Want some photos with his latest 'work' (corpses with eviscerated bowels)?

Ye 2nd Russian after Babai thats true, but still:

why your media claims that he is a member of Russian special force while its easy to find that he is retired colonel for 2 years and now a member of historic military reconstruction club and not even working - is that normal for a secret agent to have social pages etc?

> Want some photos with his latest 'work' (corpses with eviscerated bowels)?

If you have some corpses pictures with a comment "done by Strelok" - then no. If you have a proof that its done by him - then sure, do please.

Bump. Any questions?

Sup?

You still needs any evidences? Or some photo with dozen dead chechens is more than enough?

http://censor.net.ua/news/287833

Yes, I still dont see facts which prove that Russian special forces are fighting for the eastern army.

Nice fact - an article with info from some people who live in Chechnia. Really solid.

Look at Dnepr troops 3.12 on the left http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbwC1wJMwyU

Ethnic Ukranian? Mercs can be from anywhere, it does not mean you should blame the country they came from. UNA UNSO is acting against Russia in every conflict everywhere, should we accuse Ukraine for that?

http://npubop.livejournal.com/2067492.html

Stil have any questions?

https://twitter.com/Dbnmjr/status/475630193437327360/photo/1

I saw this. They served ordinary 2 years in 45th regiment recently. How you figure out that they are current special forces and not volunteers? Anyway, man dig it yourself plz, I'm solid at my opinion about what's happening. And now, when I see the current situation in eastern regions, going back to the topic - I'm happy how the things happened in Crimea. I could discuss the legal aspect of that situation previously, now I don't care - crimea decision was totally right in terms of people lives.

I have good link for you, hope it is not banned in your country: http://www.stopfake.org

Did you read the sources itself? Even you being able to read in English are not bother to read the source, overall this approach to bring fakes works really well in Ukraine I guess.

http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/UA/H...ne2014.pdf

There is no a single word about Russian special army forces in the report. Some Russian passports - and thats all, but it not the point of article.

Go on, "stop fake" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQBs5tnCia8

>There is no a single word about Russian special army forces in the report.

Your logic is so kiddy. Your president is lier, worldwide, this is a known fact. Also he controls most of the TV/Media, and this is another known fact. So ofc russia will never officially confirm intrusion. But this generally doesn't matter because there is a lot of evidences starting from russian special weapons ending to russian heavy machinery (even not counting any people or leaked info). Also it looks so nice when your TV declaring 'civil war' while corpses going back to Russia.
This is some kind of hints to you to understand the real reason of upcoming restrictions/sanctions opposite to your "the only and official" "ukrainian nazi eating kids and killing for russian language according to orders from USA", keep your mind

Not my logic. Report doesnt mention Russian special army forces, and the report is not Russian... Your logic and arguments are all about: as a source says... this is a known fact... there are some hints for you... there is an article... read this analitics... etc... You just like to think this way and thats it.
You can be sure that if a single solid fact of Russian army presense was proved - its all UA, USA, EU, UN need, they would altogether eat Russia immediately. The current situation is far from a secret operation to hide such facts for such a long time - there are simply no facts... sure your media wont say that 90% of eastern army are local ukranians.
The only reason of any economic sanctions lately - US or Fed wants that to control the power in region and nothing more. If they need an ally for a short period - like Iran now - they probably remove sanctions, if Iraq and Syria would be vanished by their terrorists - sanctions to Iran again. Maybe you think sanctions appear because someone protects Ukraine or its revenge for Crimea? Actually no one cares about Ukraine except Ukraine itself and Russia and btw your government doesnt care aswell.

>there are simply no facts

Intercepted russian MRLS is not solid enough for you? I'm starting feeling like an idiot...
There is a tons of facts, its just need some time to discover/confirm:
http://inforesist.org/ubegaya-iz-kramatorska-...-posobiya/ - can you comment non-published damage areas, for example? You are simply not ready for reality.

Btw did you know that those 2 killed russian 'journalists' which produced so many noise - they illegally crossed our border (just like many other bastards who still alive) and your government does nothing to prevent that?

Also, not miss general point: this is not EU/USA-Russia war, this is Ukraine-Russia war and you started that because you already occupied part of our territory using your military forces (your president confirmed that), re-read topic name to refresh your memory

Do these papers look like secret Russian documents? I think Russian secret documents have more double eagles on them and text in Russian colors... And I really appreciate your ability to distinguish Russian and Ukranian weapons which are produced by the same factories.

There are a lot of people everywhere who cross borders illegally and it does not mean they should be killed. The fact you are saying that some of those bastards are still alive is terrible. And by the way do you know the length of Russian borders so that you imagine how to protect it from each illegal person crossing?

Russia is not in this war even though your government with media want to put it this way. Sure they want to blame for all fuck ups and economic slump "Russian agression" its predictable. And lets be realistic if Russian regular army took part in that conflict - with all respect to Ukranian army, considering its current conditions - it had been finished for Ukraine several days after it started

>saying that some of those bastards are still alive is terrible

Sure, because those bastards still killing our soldiers and explode train bridges. Its obvious logic, people who live there will not try to destroy their own infrastructure, typical saboteurs:
http://inforesist.org/terroristy-vzorvali-zhd...m-poezdom/
If you don't know - they are outlaws in terms of war laws so can be eliminated without any warning, moreover: even not necessary to identify or correctly bury them according to military conventions

Also, let me provide some evidences that your government supports terrorists in case you miss that for some reason: http://www.unian.net/politics/928577-deti-sir...rainu.html
Obviously, this abduction was impossible without cooperation with russian government. Idea was to create a nice picture for TV 'children escaping from ukrainian fascists into friendly Russia' but fuckup happened

Another one, newsest: http://inforesist.org/mid-ukrainy-vyrazil-res...savchenko/
No comments

As you can see - I can easy provide a tons of real information in opposition to your demagogy

Can you give some facts that killed journalists are guilty for some ukranian army kills or bridge explosions?

As I can see you continue to provide articles "as our source informs" as real information... You may provide 1000 articles from inforesist, cenzor, tsn and other that kind of sources - plenty of them have no actual facts inside - I can write such "facts" dozens every day if necessary.

Inforesist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTuTX54PsLk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7WmQFdac2U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pcRwiSyUnY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhdcFQFxfnw

TSN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nMabQzhtpA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bacfhzkd9WE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHCzj_vGbmc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqlspGvVzBk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhwyUBBVxNw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBS2R6p7QOc

Other interesting fakes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzf2x1mLlbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyr_A2x6MQU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17G86XwDvYM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-vn-tyxSGQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaMX3rwqe6k

And whats the problem to bring actual facts? Several months of conflict. You media claims that thousands of terrorists are killed - so why not identify them, prove that they are currently at russian military service and make a video with faces, documents etc to check them easily in official registries? Your media claims that a lot of separatists surrendered to ukranian army - where are the videos with faces, documents? Military supplies, trucks with corpses back to Russia? Where are the videos if they saw that? ... Only shitty articles, words and some photos which quite often are taken from other conflicts... and a couple proved russian citizens who served in russian army some time ago.

First of all, those 'journalists' are illegal immigrants i.e. not journalists at all. Second one: they spreading lie and very-very often - a sign that there will be death/destruction soon to create 'nice' picture for russian tv

>Other interesting fakes

I don't care about rumors while you are trying to move from object, lets stay on that:
1) event about chilred - happened, Russia confirmed and returned them but after scandal/EU investigation started
2) event about our pilot - happened, Russia confirmed and jailed, another scandal

>so why not identify them, prove that they are currently at russian military service and make a video with faces

I'm already posted few photos before, you might simply do not want to accept that at all: http://el-murid.livejournal.com/1909919.html

Governmned agency RIA recruiting terrorists: http://ria.ru/world/20140620/1012905016.html
Also, good analytics: http://inforesist.org/iz-za-ukrainy-rossiyu-z...kkupaciya/

RIA is not recruiting terrorists. Eastern army maybe do hire mercs, or just threatening... Ukranian army has a lot of them aswell.

About the article - first of all its kind of subjuctive forecast that is too far from analitics. As you may guess I'm in total opposition to such a view. As a first point mentioned - even if german nazis didn't start the war - USSR would start to conquer Europe... Its typical anti-russian propaganda, that has no documental or any other grounds at all.

Ukraine is sovereign!!! Putin - get out!

Is is sovereign and he'll get out for sure but IMO - blame your new self declared leaders for mentioning russian language limitation and appoint their leaders in crimea which is not their privilege. Crimea - 60% russians and 90% russian language - have respect and have elections but not gangs taking and burning administration buildings. Peace

I'm living there in a big industrial city where many people speaking russian language including myself. I'm never experienced any troubles in any part of country including Lviv city.
So you talking that there is some problems in Crimea where most of the people speaking russian and there is no ukrainian schools (if I'm correct) at all? You talking about some dangerous protesters - did you saw any of them in Crimea even before? We lived fine during last 20+ years without any language laws, but some idiot introduced it, now we trying to turn it back how it was last 20+ years.
So this is a pure speculations you eating from all your TV channels/web.

About occupation: your government decision based on thing that there is some russian people killed in Crimea - which is a lie. Another (more probable) reason: you covering our defective dictator Yanukovich who stoled $10B+ and killed 90+ people, our new government is weak atm so putler trying to push him back in that way

I didn't say a word about any problems with speaking russian atm, but some regulations were announced - which is a concern.
I'm talking about Right sector behaviour across the Ukraine in general so how you can be sure that they won't bash Crimea if not take measures. There is Russian fleet with a limited number of people to protect it - which can be a concern as well.
I never heard anywhere about some russians killed as a reason for this measure. And after all Crimea government asked for protection.

Anyways my opinion is that it shouldn't be done in a current situation.

Nobody in Russia gives a fuck about your shitty president, hes running away just afraid of being killed.. but he is a president still and should be removed by elections or referendum.
What is happening now is another crooks self declared as a govenment. Tymoshenko is the same thief, therefore was jailed.

Anyways im sure forces will leave soon, and you'll elect good government. I care because my relatives are there, I visit Ukraine 4-5 times a year and if such western people as Jarosh will spread their shitty theories and affect the situation more - I believe it could be a problem.

Please, don't eat putler propaganda anymore.
RS is a nationalistic (not nazi or national-socialistic) organization, read carefully its (nationalistic) explanation, also read its Bandera interpretation (just 3 sentences) without any bias as much as you can. Visit Maidan with russian flag and no one will ever touch you, but may just for handshake or free tea. Without shouting offensive words - no one will harm you, never was and never will, this is a pure speculations, remember Euro-2012

Don't keep in mind, RS problem/advantage because its radical, but only for now - i.e. if there will be some stabilization they will loose support or became less radical as the rest of background.

Watch more Pervyj Kanal, moron

I have no TV sir, thx for proving me wrong with you indepth insight on the situation

"some regulations were announced - which is a concern"
announced but not accepted. Even if so they were going to cancel a law about regional languages which was accepted several years ago. Before that there was no such law and everything was ok! I speak Russian as my native and there is no concern here as you say it.

"Right sector behaviour across the Ukraine"
They have no power here and its not even a registered political party. I dont hear about any of th "behaviour" in my region. I doubt there are more nazis in Ukraine than in Russia. So thats bullshit. Russians stil cant get order in Caucasius but come here to protect us.

Once Russia invades Belarus then quake will truly be dominated by the mother land.

Until Rapha launches some Freedom Rockets™.

Nice one.

Haha, it gets better the more you think about it.

Russia is just doing its thing. To some extent Russia is totally in the right with the actions it has taken - in theory.

"To some extent", "in theory"... Any real arguments?

Well in the current situation the "protecting" our citizens whatnot is totally valid. And this is bad, very bad, in a sense that Russia actually acts on these kinds of things.
The Ukrainians fucked up and fucked up bad. The precedents, sort of, of things that happened in Ukraine and now the counter reaction by Russia are really bad.

The only thing to blame is democracy pretty much, everything else so far has been a direct consequence of it. There were elections, one bloke became the president and his party won over a necessary amount of seats in the parliament. That is it, that's how it has to be until the next election. Then people who do not like the bloke or what he is doing have another chance to "choose" their leader. In the meanwhile ... stfu and suffer if necessary. Majority rules absolutely. A significant amount of people chose otherwise by protesting, looting and pillaging (who, how and where is irrelevant). The west applauded which is the worst outcome of this whole ordeal in the long run. They backed a coup, which makes it pretty much ok to do the same thing in every "western democratic" state. The republicans can burn down DC now if they do not win the elections, same goes for the dems, because it's ok now.

What's happening now is that Russia is doing their thing on the pretense of protecting their citizens and fellow Russians in a state which overthrew its legally elected and law abidingly ruling leaders and now has a rogue government consisting of random members of an originally divided opposition with no clear message besides (we done like the bloke the majority of the population elected) and now clear plan on moving forward.

Interesting. Your reasosing is quite valid, to some extent.
Why was I initially interested in what EU/USA folks think - to know how and where they get the info of what was and is happening in Ukraine. For example now I see that you believe it was a 'rogue' revolution, with looting, pillaging, and the goverment is rogue - which is ridiculous, as the parliament consists pretty much of same people now - and in 2 month there will be president election followed by parliamental elections. Where did you get that info, made your view on how things were done here?

The fact is that it has been a coup. There was a legitimate president, who won with a clear majority 4 years ago, not a large one but still. Fair and honest elections? Who knows both sides accused one another of foul play and there are never elections where the losing side doesn't have some complaints. The international observers however said that it was pretty much fair. The OSCE said the elections were "transparent and honest". That's it, that sets the playing field until the next elections, don't like it stfu ... try to do your opposition thing if you can, but other wise the majority rules absolutely. Everything else is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. In a democratic society it is not ok to overthrow a majority government as it is after all representing the majority of the people and whatnot. This did however happen in Ukraine. Everything has just been a reaction. The parliament ousted Yanukovych and replaced him with Turchynov. The legality of this has been in question however - the whole dual constitution thing going on and so on. But understandably there was no time to argue the legality of the whole goings-on during the turmoil that was happening on on the streets.
Nontheless a legally elected president was ousted. Just because he did not do what some people wanted. The west applauded, mainly because the legally elected president, representing the majority of the country, was not willing to do what the west wanted. Great, the west said, ... people who favour us go loot and pillage and whatnot until you get your way, we have you back.
In this case I am not emphasising the "us vs them" issue. The west has the same system, the west even said that Ukraine has the same governing system as the west itself has. Ergo backing a revolt against a legally elected government is totally ok now.

The UK might have a new PM soon who said he'll but the EU membership issue on the ballot. No matter the outcome the losing side now has the moral right to come and protest indefinitely by whatever means and do that until they get their way.


The opposition has not been a united front since day one. They were against the then in office president and were pro-EU, but otherwise they were a diverse bunch. What might happen after the new elections in the spring? Who is the one and only candidate who pleases everybody and I do mean everybody, otherwise ... well we've seen what's been happening for the past months. What if a not 100% pro-EU candidate wins? The people can and even should go back to the protests and start the circle again. What if a pro-Russia (very unlikely now) candidate wins? What will the pro-Russia people do if their candidate does not win? They can go back to the protests and demand what they want and do it until they get it or at least oust the ruling government in office at that point.

Pandora's box has been opened.

Ukraine will soon be....




:(

Khrushchev disapproves

your mom

hahah finally a reply. Here I was worried about the "fine art america" label in Russian thread. Just to be clear, you're saying my mom looks like Khrushchev not "your mom" i.e., I disagree that Krushchev disapproves of Putin's action?
p.s. nice q2 aero match several weeks ago. Caught the Jehar cast.

vs scoo?

Barton I think. You opened up a can on him toward the end.

I'd just like to hear our opinions from the world: what people know, what they think.

i like turtles

d'ya like turtle dicks? internet turtle dicks are quite alright, fine sir

I'd say that... look at yourself, your at others, look around you, you see the world. Well, look at the sky, do you see the stars? You ever been in a plane? Everything look so small from up there, don't you think? It's like we are all ants, so tiny tinyyyy. Well from up there you don't see borders separating countries, or lands, besides oceans and some mountains, lakes, rivers, but I mean, it's like one huge ball where you find animals, people, you know. And look again up there in the sky, what do we know? Well, not that much, even on earth what do we know? Well, not THAT much, I mean we don't even know most of the shits that's going on deep down in the ocean, scary... We are really nothing in the universe, but in the same time the universe is somehow within each one of us, right. Anyway here is the thing, you see, we are literally lost here, and we still know barely anything about the universe and our home, and what do we do? We kill each other, we make wars, we hate each other (racism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc), we destroy our own home (the Earth), we hurt ourselves.

So when I heard and read that Russia decided to go to Ukraine I just thought:

http://www.youtubemultiplier.com/531383c77b6c...kraine.php

Welcome to my country this summer, komrad! Get the visa and come to my Yalta summer house for shashlyk in a couple of months!

Russia sucks so much. Such a retarded 3rd world country. Ukraine sucks aswell but a little less. Can't see much positive in Russia apart from them being good in ql ::::Lllllll Glad they're fighting their own instead of somebody else, atleast for now!

Finland is next, my komrad! Gonna win 2018 Olympics Hockey Cup with a united team when we conquer you by that time! See you in my countryhouse somewhere near Helsinki to celebrate the victory!
Russia! Putin! Cooller!

))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

But.. When's it our time?

When these shitty finns make us lose vs you as they are used to

+ for Cooller

Planned by the USA since 20+ years. If the country splits the part joining europe will be used as a manpower reservoir for Germany mainly for shity works. Social dumping at it's finest. Thx oncle Sam.

West "pro europe" Ukraine is poor btw.


I've seen some nazi in the pro europe camp, showing hitler flags etc.

lol @ Ukraine.

Wow, what a stream of thoughts. Incredible. Starting from "Planned by the USA since 20+ years", then going on how EU will use Ukraine's labour force and finishing with "I saw hitler flags". You must be smart.

Are you trying to say that my statement is false?

We all saw the nazi flags on internet. Thoose are supporting the EU side.

Don't forget about gays and jews!

Yes, because we support Nazis in Europe...

What's your point? What i said remains true and you are clueless of why USA and europe uses everything even the nazi groups in Ukraine.

ahahah you made me laugh, thank you

this scatterbrain discourse is typical of your low-end Russian. always with the retarded conspiracy theories like pinning the obvious on the good ol' USA ("since 20+ years" ago, lol).

the shit their government does is always justified or the blame lies solely with some external party and they are the victims of course. it is known!

i didnt understood what you were tryin to say. I am not russian and i don give a fuck about russia. ok?

pff, but i wanted to say something about Russians anyway

FaceIt was just the start

"The West" seems to be fkin weak compared to Putin :/
But maybe... Putin is good for Russia. edit. From outside his internal politics seems to be not that bad, lower taxes etc. Ofc, there is probably less freedom in Russia (but never was) - Russia need 'hard hand', in other way russian oligarchs will rule the country. I dont like western EU propaganda of EU socialism, + homo, gender etc. too, btw. (i'm not racist or homophobic i just dont like propaganda)

If such things will happen in Poland, EUfaggots will not help us. As usual. And god damn, thats why I don't want NATO army in Poland. We don't need all of that shit. Fuck Russia and EU, and USA too.

Ofc is political thing, I blame governments (mine too), not people. Imo in every country, even in Rus or Ukraine are normal people too, except some retards (yes, we got them too, a lot)

polish government shouldn't do anything, every scenario is bad for us. For now it looks like they supported some nazi idiots (ARMED!) on ukraine. edit. and even now some ukrainian people blame us for it... still, general opinion is that ukrainians don't like us.

Imo nobody really want EU or Russia there. Eastern Ukraina is a bit scared of nazi western part (maybe is that propaganda too?), that's why now they want to be part of Russia.


who's fault of all this shit? I don't know. Maybe "The West", maybe Putin, or probably both. Or maybe ukrainian oligarchs who lost control.

once again, ukrainian sociaty will be fucked up by every 'player'.
A bit same thing is in Poland, but more softly :S

imo probably there will be even no 'first blood' between russia and ukraine. Russians will sit on Crimea until 30th March - referendum. People will choose Russia or will make separate country or smth, and that's it.

Crimea directly depends on gas, electricity, communications and even fresh water for agriculture from near regions - that's why it became a part of Ukraine. It's subsidized by define, it will turn into desert without fresh water. Russia must build gas pipes, power lines, etc. -> through 4.5km-wide Kerch Strait - which will cost many $billions+ years -- did you think that Russia will do that just to protect russian-speaking people from some imaginary enemies?

Just some associations from the past: Crimea - Austria+Sudetes, Ukraine - Poland, Putin - ... you know

Nah. "Protect of russian-speaking people" is just a tool in Putin hands.

But I'm not really sure what is the true goal of whole thing.
To test "The West" ? or just world domination?

Not sure about global, but current goal is to control Ukraine otherwise putin will lost control over Russia. He is really scared what happened there (i.e kicked out dictator yanukovich) not because of some imaginary 'terrorists' but because of people may start escaping from his cyrillic Northern Korea into much democratic country with almost identical culture, language etc.

And after these words you are speaking about media shit?)) Moar conspirology, moar true info from Right Sector and Bandera pages!!! Putler, Gulag, Dictator, North Korea, Empire, War, Russian slaves!!!

Putler images are funny western propaganda for me.

More funny, when german media talking about it ;)

btw. sochi 2014 vs western olimpic was looking like... cultural punch for "The West"... imo. But people still belive in soviet shit.

This is only opinion but based on some real facts. Facts that are hidden from most russians by total propaganda.
Also, its useless to explain what exactly Bandera declared because only his name causes unconditional urination/butthurt for most soviet russians.

Take a blue pill

The propaganda is everywhere. And everywhere is different.

Like "I'm Ukrainian" movie, probably sponsored by USrael. Even there are UPA flags...

For us, in Poland, there is only hate for Bandera.

and UPA flags are on almost every photo from Maidan.
It was looking bad for polish people.

You don't like Bandera flags now? Get ready for Stalin =)

Never liked it. Never liked Hitler or Stalin.
and I don't like Putin, still he got nothing to do with Hitler or Stalin. And Russia now is not 'soviet blablabla'

And it is not in my country business to got Strong Russia near of us. And imo EU by 'helping' ukraine... they pushed ukraine into Putin's arms.

Still thinking that government =/= people and I can still like some russians people etc.

PS. Germany or Russia apologise a bit about WW2. But never heard about apologise for "massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia" from Ukraina.

>Germany or Russia apologise a bit about WW2. But never heard about apologise for "massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia" from Ukraina.

This was war-time episode. Did you know that there was strike-back from Poland? Did you know that both underground forces that suddenly started this conflict - stopped it in the same way? Did you know than after that there was even collaboration in capturing Werbkowicy railroad station?

We already published all our secret archives related to this

Yes, I know about strike back.
Still is was 'strike back', and we don't support our 'nationalism' now.

war-time dont explain killing women and childrens or neighbours.
War is about soldier vs soldier, and even in this way they don't treat each other like that.

Ofc UPA was supported by Nazi.

And I don't really care about it. Poland should be just neutral now.

I'm not defending their crime. It was war-time crime, I can tell you about similar related to russian, german, japan soldiers for example.

UPA was supported by Nazi when they fought together with soviet union as major occupant, when Nazi started occupation - they start fought against Nazi, they always fought against occupation, not particular country, its very simple to understand

Nazis will keep them in occupation anyway ;)

But nothing is simple. Ofc also polish people did bad things. And when we look at history... Ukraine had hard situation, ruled by Poland or Russia, or it was a borderland for each. Also people there are a mix of them.

And ok, in some way I can understand, but a little. but I mean NOW, and how it looks for polish people when they see UPA flags. And let's be honest, in history polish and ukrainian people never really was 'brothers'. And for now, its possible that its wrong but probably there is no other way when we got strong neighbours like EU and Russia.

Polish and ukrainian people suffers because of EU, USA, Russian politics. At the end, nobody will care about us. We are buffer between EU and Russia. We are weak.

Poland joined EU and they bought everything here. We are a bit of 'slaves' and we should be happy that we can wash the dishes in UK or Germany. Generally speaking. Also EU is forcing us to shit things. And calling it "Union" is bullshit. Already in UK they talking "ok Poles, you did your job, so go back to your country"

We can't turn time back...
Many people killed 20.feb by snipers was members/activists of VO 'Svoboda', some of them had only wood shields or was killed while trying to rescue injured people... Not sure that anyone will ever force followers to change flag...

Those fuckers performed actual ethnic cleansing (including killing ~1000 Ukrainians who tried to hide Poles) and you're saying they fought against occupation? Do you even know who those psychos were? That Bandera guy cut people's heads off and you would suck his dick. Please...

Lets remember all excesses of Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth during last 300 years, its good time for such memories

"Last 300 years", mkay ;) (We've completely disappeared from the map in 18th century)

Anyways, I've never heard of Poland doing ethnic cleansing. Sure, we were fighting in wars and started some (we've even invaded Russia and took Moscow, only nation in history, suck it Germans and French!) But it's nothing like wiping out whole populations + some of our own. Really, incomparable.

There was some agreement between our governments related to this theme, stop speculating on that

Ahem.

That was a nice Russian gambit. But it doesn't count - you've burnt it all yourselves so there was nothing to conquer. Compare to getting destroyed by hussars in battle and living under Polish occupation for 2 years :)

>That Bandera guy cut people's heads off and you would suck his dick. Please...

Btw this is very good example how much powerful USSR/Russia propaganda, read his biography first

Why yanukovich is dictator? Didn't he win elections after tymoshenko government failed? So why dictator? Ofc is not a good guy, but 'orange revolution' are not good guys too.

Too many 'players' to understand it for me:
1. USA vs Russia about domination
2. EU/Germany which is hungry of Ukraine to make there "freedom" like they did in Poland
3. Ukrainian oligarchs who don't give a shit about ukrainian people. Probably they didn't like yanukovich too.

Imo Putin is not scared. He won in many cases in 2013 vs USA.
Obama is fkin weak.

>Why yanukovich is dictator?

'hand laws' + actions

>Didn't he win elections after tymoshenko government failed? So why dictator? Ofc is not a good guy, but 'orange revolution' are not good guys too.

'win elections' doesn't mean 'i can do anything after that', he loosed legitimacy after killing people and escaping from country

Again, don't miss the point: he won elections but lost legitimacy after his own obvious criminal actions

Still, it wasn't silent protest. It was armed revolution. Dunno who armed them. People was shooting to militia. etc. I'm not defending yanukovich... but is tymoshenko pure and not criminal? or anyone is clean there?... Klitschko? ... probably supported by some oligarch.

people DIED for NOTHING. Ukrainians will be fucked up again.


I doubt if there will be some kind of revolution in EU or USA they will not call it 'fight for freedom' but "fighting against bad anarchists".
This is how The West works.

>Still, it wasn't silent protest. It was armed revolution.
Nice sources you got there. Check this video out, how exactly people were "armed" - shields taken from militia and wooden bats. Particularly on that very day, vs snipers. Heartbreaking, people were shot like wild animals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg9fjOfPZyE

>but is tymoshenko pure and not criminal?
Nobody wants to see Tymoshenko "back" in any way here. Afaik, she was freed now because initially Yanukovitch put her in jail, despite the decision of some world court which was she was not found guilty. He just needed to make one opponent (strong one) less. And yes, most politicians could be called criminals, at least in our country.

I'm not defending anyone.

But you can't estimate situation by 1 youtube movie. You can also find movies where militia don't do anything, just stand...

Some of reports was like:
"14 protesters killed
9 policeman killed
13 gunshot policeman wunds
79 policeman in hospitals"

Is it peaceful protest for you?
They were sponsored for sure.
If not there will never win.


If there will be riots in Poland now... we don't have anything to kill police, only hands.

>Is it peaceful protest for you?
Don't jump from one statement to another, let's not do it. You said they were armed, of course no one is denying peaceful protests ENDED as soon as first molotov's were thrown.

>They were sponsored for sure.
Lmao, did you see the video? Or any of other hundreds videos? Sponsored with what, helmets, self-made shields and bats (some had air rifles, or whatever they are called in english)? Or do you believe average Ukrainian is so poor that without financing he wouldn't afford a wooden bat and a helmet? Please tell me where did you get such info which shaped your view on the matter?

lol, it is impossible to hold such long time without a 'sponsor' , you need food, money etc. to do it. Every not sponsored protest failed and nobody is talking about it anymore...
I just mean they got some guns, not many. There is no need that every one should have it...

give some weapons to any 'nazi' in the world, maybe only few but still they will shoot to everything...


behind almost every ukrainian politician there is oligarch (if not it only means that nobade cares about such person).
och "smarty" maidan people, and maybe is accident that they made Serhija Taruta a ruler Donetsk? or Ihor Kolomoyskyi in Dnipropetrovsk? ya rly...

sorry to say, imo ukrainians were fooled, again.


Maybe Putin sponsored them to provoke situation
Maybe EU or USA for anti russian politics
Maybe oligarchs because they disliked yanukovich
and nobody really cares about citizens

"orange revolution" was sponsored too.

easy informations to find in press or expert oppinions. I just listened a lot points of view.

I'm sad about ukrainian people, and I'm against any violence but Poland shouldn't support them, we can only 'lose' there, especially when there is a lot of UPA flags over maidan. We don't need facist country as neighbour.

PS. Syria was sponsored too.

Alright, maybe I have too much faith in people sometimes, but lots, LOTS of people in Kiev supported the protesters - giving food and clothes.

>och "smarty" maidan people, and maybe is accident that they made Serhija Taruta a ruler Donetsk? or Ihor Kolomoyskyi in Dnipropetrovsk? ya rly...
This have a very obvious (at least for me) reason - the sentiment on the east side of Ukraine is very undecided, as many of people who live there speak Russian (as a first language) and primarily watch Russian news - where all they see is how Ukraine's new goverment will oppress the state of Russian language and that there are fascists waiting to kill Russian people (bandera etc.).
So giving such high posts in goverment to oligarchs is very wise move - these oligarchs are the last people who want changes (as in Russia taking over territories of Ukraine), they want unity of the country and of course they have a very big influence on the people - as half the people living there work for them.

At the start protesters was probably 'true', but next step 'big players' joined the game :/ and its sad that people was fooled (but polish people was also fooled in 89')

I read a lot of comments that russians speaking people on Ukraine about oppress. It seems to be true. And nobody should do such things. Russians or russian speaking people was there all the time. But imo they don't want to be part of Russia. They afraid of facists. Still they are a too in Putin's hands.

When they gave high posts to oligarchs east side became even more angry.

>I read a lot of comments that russians speaking people on Ukraine about oppress. It seems to be true.
That's why I said about Russian propaganda. Nobody opresses language usage here, half of Kiev speaks Russian.

>They afraid of facists. Still they are a too in Putin's hands.
Yep, fascist paranoia. Afraid of something that is (almost) not existant.

>When they gave high posts to oligarchs east side became even more angry.
Care to elaborate why? I haven't heard anything on this matter.

As I said propaganda is everywhere. It's hard to filter all of that informations.

Now its too late. "facist' true or not. People in east side are afraid about it. And Putin used this pretext...

I couldn't belive it, treated it like conspiracy theory but more and more I think this guy might be right...
http://youtu.be/tnA2fEhqq-I
there are english subtitles

When militia killing peaceful people using very special armor-piercing projectile that was designed to crash car engines and tells 'nah, we using only non-fatal rubber bullets', when militia specially aiming and shooting in eyes (counting foreign reporters), when militia throwing grenades in special way to tear off limbs and bleak bowel is some cases, when militia killing injured people that can't even move - it must and it will turn into armed revolution

just wanted to jump into your convo and spell out the fact that the know-it-all H1ghlander has a 'slight' tendency to act as if his views were a general knowledge or even universal truths among Poles. They are not. Sorry to interrupt...

Nobody got "universal truths", also you.
There are too many informations.

Maybe universal truth is that... most Poles are blind idiots, who trust their TV. Things are way more complicated. Didn't said that I understand it all.

Like everybody, I'm trying to understand whole thing from different point of views.

Ofc, I'm not an expert or anything.

Timoschenko supposedly has connections with Semion Mogilevich

This is just the continuation of the cold war in a more subtle geopolitical manner. It's the same that was happening in Libya and Syria. Now it is Ukraine's turn and ukrainian people's turn to suffer from this madness lead by the superpowers who don't really care about the suffering of the lowly people. Yes, they do care in a sense, because propaganda.

In the end all that matters is the world domination, it's a big chess game at a world level that has been going on for decades. I'm pretty sure Russia learned its lesson when they got fucked over by the Libyan civil war and reacted promptly to put a stop to the occidental propaganda around Syria just in time. Putin's and China's vetos plus Putin's call for an investigation around potential chemical weapons used by the Syrian government dropped the whole debate flat and we don't hear so much anymore from the Syrian conflict anymore in our news papers.

The next target was Ukraine. I'm pretty sure now that things will go more quiet around it now that the fuss has been made. I'm only curious what the next country is on the agenda right now.

Belgian colony sounds interesting! At least you wont look dull in another QL cup playoffs surrounded by 7 russians! Moreover you will finally have enough players in your own strong QL TDM/CTF national team without dumb wannabe 'union' benelux abuse!
See you right after we conquer Ukraine!
Russia! Putin! Cooller!

Beware, Raphang can assume some illegal railgun abuse, so he comes to your server without any "can I" and punish

classic kramer ))

Nothing is at it seems at the moment in Ukraine. To be honest this is the most idiotic political move I have seen pulled off in a long long time in the geopolitical sphere. The situation is so complex that no one is really thinking about it objectively.

First off, it is true that the Yankuvich was a corrupt to the core politician that used his influence to steal billion of dollars for self enrichment. It is true that the whole political system in the Soviet Union is a corrupt piece of shit. But Europe unfortunately its in the same bag.

In Ukraine since they lack any real production to push their economy and enrich their small elite, they instead focus on trading with raw natural resources and a limited industry for their income. The people have no real opportunity to advance their wealth status because the resources are in lock by the upper 1% while the small business opportunities are on the decline because of heavy taxes. This way people remain in survivor mode while the rich just sell their natural resources to buy anything they need.

Russia is exactly the same bag in that regard. The only difference is that Russia had indeed used their global position to develop something you could call an industry.

Now we go to the top douchebags the EU and USA technocrats. I'm talking about the banking thieves. The whole system that prints money out of thin air and then lends it out with interest. You know that building you call the Federal Reserve. They make money out of thin air and loan it with interest, and then push governments to impose taxes on the people to pay them back and so that they can eventually enslave everyone and transfer all the assets. There is no economic crisis today in the purest sense because the industry is all there.
This whole economical crisis debacle is just that pure bullshit. It is a transfer of wealth through money manipulation from the general public to the 0.001%.

Now lets talk about Ukraine. The situation in Ukraine is much more complex than it seems. The reason such instability is happening right now in Ukraine is because the American-European alliance need a war. The hijacking of all the assets at this point is pretty much complete, and the collapse is about to happen. If the collapse happens before the war it will be blamed on the banks and the whole paradigm could shift.
Instead you have guys like Soros, and the west shadow bankers fund a revolution in Ukraine to overthrow their government and break their constitution and put in a group of people who will be the sock puppets of the west.

Now Ukraine economically has absolutely no significance to the bankers. They will not invest a dime to help the "people". Europe is applying financial terrorism on its own citizens and you expect it to help a group of people that has no connection to them ethnically or economically? Think again.

The western jesuit controlled puppets have an agenda. And their agenda is to provoke Russia. It could have easily happened that the government would change hands in Ukraine and the new government to be lenient in its laws and agreements with Russia. This way there would be no problem.

Instead of being so adamant on becoming EUs puppet the new Ukrainian government should have enforced its true sovereignty and stay in the middle. To trade and keep economic ties with both Russia and EU according to its interests, not to take sides.

This way Russia would not feel threatened by EU and US. If Russia loses Ukraine completely, they lose their positioning and will get completely surrounded by the west. And in such a situation they would be without buffer zones and the west would control them like a little girl.

The Illuminati in USA and EU slowly but surely have transferred all its industry to China. They have enslaved and lowered the standards of living to a minimum to their people. They have turned everyone into debt slaves and accumulated all the real assets.

USA at this point has no real economy. They have a big army and a dollar that is attached to oil. But at this point in time that paradigm is shifting. US is starting to lose control over the influence of oil and slowly but surely the dollar will be detached from oil, it will no longer be the petrodollar. USA is losing its influence in both Libya and Afghanistan while China is moving in.

Because the USA now doesn't produce, the only reason the world needs to buy dollars is because its attached to oil. The moment the US dollar gets detached from oil is the moment China will take that worthless piece of paper and dump it in the stock market and the whole US economy will crash. China is doing real production to produce shit that the world needs and buying US dollars with it so that they can buy oil. US is just printing dollars and conquering oil reserves so that oil only gets sold with US dollars only. The moment they lose control over these oil fields is the moment USA becomes the middle man no one needs.

And no one in the world wants a monkey on their back, especially a fat one like the USA.

The paradigm is shifting and new players are emerging. While Russia, China, India cannot compete with USA militarily they can do so economically. If nothing happens and the US dollar gets detached from oil, China will simply dump their dollars and crash the Wests economy. And then since they are buying tons of gold, they will set up a "Wall Street" in China and the world will use their currency for world trade. Chinas currency will be based on gold and since China produces everything, their currency would become the trade currency.

USA and EU has on purpose destroyed their industry through the banking system. Now imagine if nothing happens and US dollars is no longer the petro dollar. Imagine a day when China would buy oil directly from Saudi Arabia without dollars. Why would they trade with USA? They wouldn't.

The problem here is how in that scenario would the USA be able to receive goods when no one will want its currency because they have nothing to offer. The dollar would become a worthless piece of paper and China would not send any goods and services to the USA. They would buy their oil directly from the middle east and Africa, and if US wanted stuff from China they would have to build a real industry, like the one they had ages ago before they deindustrialized themselves on purpose.

The only card the US and EU have at this point is war. They will use a world war to destroy their enemy, set up a world dominance and blame the economic collapse on it. The banking thieves will get away with all the wealth they have stolen, and once the reset button is hit, they will own everything and the people will own nothing.

This is their plan in action and theory. But just like they are digging the holes for their fellow man, they are one the ones who eventually will fall into it.

Haven't we learned anything from history. Throughout human history all the civilizations that crossed the lines and engaged in evil ended in destruction. From Babylon to Rome.

Humanity is in its decline both morally and spiritually. We are the reason this world is going down the pipes. And the sad part is we have no one to blame but ourselves.

"Well you may throw your rock and hide your hand
Workin' in the dark against your fellow man
But as sure as God made black and white
What's done in the dark will be brought to the light

You can run on for a long time
Run on for a long time
Run on for a long time
Sooner or later God'll cut you down
Sooner or later God'll cut you down" - Johnny Cash

Do you by any chance work in the finance area?

no, he doesnt, its obvious

Its the lyric from a Johnny Cash song, silly. Johnny was just bad at rhyming.

silly if i wanted to ask him about the johnny cash lyrics i would
its about the thing he wrote above it : D

Didn't read the whole thing, but first you basically say that if Russia loses Ukraine, they're fucked. But what Russia is doing now (or better to say what they might do - 'take away' Crimea by force) will lead only to one thing - Russia will lose Ukraine forever. Contradiction?

Take your meds and pull the plug ...

And in such a situation they would be without buffer zones and the west would control them like a little girl.

plussed exactly for that sentence.

i dont think anyone will control russia, its people already live very badly, you take that a little further and war is all they would have left to do

You've missed a hint on a famous polosat1y quote: "I will control you like a little girl girl"

This guy said it perfectly. Whole situations is basically west vs east, happening in the Ukraine right now. Since americans blew their chances with iran and syria, ukraine situation have been made like this, and russia had to act.

The stuff about economical switch was very nice read and completely makes sense.

Whoever thinks this is Ukraine vs Russia couldn't be more wrong. Ukraine is just a puppet in this case.

One major problem with one of your theses: "...and China would not send any goods and services to the USA..."

Reminds me of a quote -- can't remember the source -- "If you owe the bank $50,000, the bank owns you. If you owe the bank $500,000,000 YOU own the bank."

China got in bed with the US unwillingly after Nixon's foray there. They didn't want the Treasury bonds, but bought them anyway in a deal for fertilizers which they desperately needed for food production.

Contrary to popular opinion, most of the US debt is owned my US individuals. China(including Hong Kong) and Japan are about even in their holdings, 8.1% and 7% respectively.
China isn't about to let their principal customer of goods and services go under.

I'm really surprised by the not so extremely high levels of hate for Russsia in this thread.

Oddly enough, the anime thread has more hate comments.
I'm not complaining.

which thread is that? twitch plays pokemon?

dont worry i found it

Why should there be? It's completely normal behavior by mother Russia. I know you agree.

My thoughts exactly by the time i reached this comment

Russia will never let go of Ukraine for a few reasons.

First, in order to counter the American European alliance they are trying to set up their own trading block. This means Russia, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Belarus, Ukraine all will be part of it.

If a World War doesn't happen and once the US dollar collapses, this trading block that Russia is trying to set up will become like the EU of China. It will be a two block alliance. China will be like the USA was, and Russia's block will be mostly natural resources trading but with the possibility of developing a strong industry eventually.

Second, Russia at this point in time is pretty much surrounded. Military bases with destructive weapons are all around them. From the Balkans to EU and Turkey there are US bases with missiles pointed directly at Russia. If they lose Ukraine they will be completely surrounded and will lose any hope of economic influence worldwide and also get completely out positioned if a war were to happen later on.

How do you think USA would react if Canada would allow Russia to make military bases with Nuclear weapons on its border?

And third, Russia and China both have heavy interest in Ukraine for both economical and defensive reasons. China will back up Russia in this case, and Russia will not back of Ukraine no matter what.

The situation is extremely dire at this point and this could escalate quickly. If Ukraine troops attack Russia, Russia will respond with strong might. EU and USA will respond heavily to Russia first in a political sense. They will kick both China and Russia out of UN. Once this happens gloves are off. US will attack Syria and Israel will attack Iran.
Iran in return will attack Saudi Arabia oil fields and destroy the infrastructure that USA build there, and closing the straight of Hormuz.

At this point China will be infuriated because of Iran being attacked. Iran is like the Saudi of China, They sell to China most of their natural resources and all of their oil pretty much. China will retaliate and attack an ally of US-Eu alliance being Japan. They will take the islands and also Taiwan.

At this point once the attack on the oil fields happen and 40 percent of the world oil gets locked up because of Straight of Hormuz, the economical collapse will be quick. Transportation will get blocked worldwide.

If Iran decides to retaliate strongly against Israel this will be the biggest problem. No matter how much defense Israel has at this point they will not be able to stop the onslaught of the Iranian missiles. Israel could respond with Nuclear weapons. And this would be the beginning of the end.

And this all could escalate from Ukraine. The Jesuit controlled agents tried to pull this off with Syria last year but it didn't happen. And now they used an approach that's much more dangerous and that can escalate much quicker.

Also remember that Iran will defend Syria if they get attacked. They have a defense alliance. China also has a deal to protect Iran if they will be attacked, and USA has the same for Japan.

The Crimea is Russia's only warm water port and it is vital for their power projection.

yep. important to know.

Whole Crimea case is hilarious for me :D

First off all, its always nice to see how weak and spineless the leaders of old europe are. exactly the same countries that could stop world war II :D Cowardly cockroaches, nothing more.

Secondly, i like Puting argumentation of securing own citizens more than USA "freedom and terrorists". Its nice you can take over a part of a country and still have logic reason to do it.

And last but not least: i think Poland should use the chance and take over our "polish" cities on Ukraine. They too busy with Crimea to defend Lviv.

>Secondly, i like Puting argumentation of securing own citizens more than USA "freedom and terrorists". Its nice you can take over a part of a country and still have logic reason to do it.

So you act like nazi, power-respecting-only scum now? Very nice indeed.

i said i like it more than usa way of arguing all their conflicts :b

and for me Putin is awesome. He knows what cards he holds, and how to use them. He would do great in any kind of enterprise as CEO, therefore i respect him.

Putin's awesomeness is bad for us :<

its bad for us as long as we decide to stick with spineless fegets or freedom sellers.

unfortunately, we should think about it before joining them :P

nah, taking shitload of euros was good, its just time to pack out things and say fuck you European Union of faggots.


it could shake our economy a bit, considering germany could halt product exchange, but on the other hand biggest market in the europe would be totally open for us. Vlad would guarantee it :D

We put there our euros too.
Our economy will raise without them too. If donations are cool thing, Africa should be the best place to live now ;p

...or maybe you mean that we should take control over business which their bought/stole from us ;>

we gained more than we were forced to put in, so yeah, it was good deal.

our politicians stole most of these funds :>

well maybe, but a lot of shit got rebuild in my commune for eu monies.

Bastiat is rolling in his grave.

its nice you like board games like 'risk'. you will be a fine general. hope to see you in a vanguard of that conflict with your sabre in hand, like a true sarmant that you are.

We are too weak to do it. And our politics dont have balls. And ukrainians in Lviv should vote for it by themselves. Probably they will choose us to be a part of EU.

It's not funny. At the end, they will ask us for help and to die for Europe ;) if you lnow that polish ball comic ;)

Maybe Germany should take back it's rightful lands too.

and which lands are we discussing?

Silesia that voted its want to be part of Poland? Or something different?

Stettin, Breslau?
Silesia, they already trying :S

in such way I think we should fuck up all and back to Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth borders.

Lel who cares? We send our fire departement to get what rightfully is ours. Like you asparagus cutters can do something about it. While we are at it we gonna take back Elsass and Bohemia too).
Austria will undoubtfully be looking for annexation on its own. They can't deny their true nature xaxaxa)). South Tirol won't be a problem either because between ourselfs who wants to be part of that farce in the South? Bunga, Bunga))

asparagus cutters was awesome :D

Did you have to say "pussy maggots?" I mean I understand the combination, but now I unwittingly have a literal disgusting image in my head. "Cowardly cockroaches" at least?

i edited for you, sowwy :<

my goodness, unexpected -- well "pussy maggot" is probably already in use for some all-chick, death metal, politics-bashing band.

dont try to look for pics.

omg, whyyyy

f*ck this...

Nice!

I'll just leave this here: http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/Ukraine_...d=37361918

(take note of the chronological timestamp of this news post, 2 days before the start of the riots)

I ONCE REMEMBER OUR OLIGARCHY SELLING TO US EUROPEANS THE IDEA OF THE EUROPEAN GOUVERNMENT TO COUNTER USA ECONOMY.

NOW THAT WE WILL HAVE TRANSATLANTIC TREATY LET'S SEE HOW THEY WILL SELL IT TO US.

Also for the Ukrainians i suggest you to google for Soros foundation.

I'M SORRY BUT AM I BARGING IN ON A POLITICALLY VOLATILE SUBJECT RIGHT NOW? BECAUSE IF I AM I AM VERY SORRY BUT I CAME TO ESR IN THE HOPES OF UNITING NATIONALITIES FOR THE GREATER GOOD

AND THIS, MY FRIENDS, IS NOT THE GREATER GOOD


PS.: UKRAINE, DON'T FIRE FIRST

This has been in the making for some time: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3a8833b6-a230-11e3-...z2ulUwsAaW

http://pando.com/2014/02/28/pierre-omidyar-co...ents-show/

Euros shitting their pants again. C'mon guys, chill.

...and Poland's like "we are prepared to counter russian aggression to Polish territory"
Russia's like "who gives a shit about poland?"
...and Obama like "lol ok ... Poland... we got your back"

http://imgur.com/gallery/qCXlb

Here is a quick read about the whole thing for those interested from a Ukrainian perspective(a 3 minute read).

Few points are missing. They are pretty relevant here:
1. Yanukovich wasn't properly impeached and is still de jure a president of Ukraine. Current rulers of Kiev are not elected through democratical vote of people, but self-proclaimed.
2. Kiev is in central Ukraine, so maidan protesters are mostly from western and central parts of a country. There's a little (or almost none) representation of Eastern Ukraine people in Kiev now.
3. There was a big tension between western and eastern people during the days of maidan. (no one likes Yanukovich btw)
4. Maidan protesters who came to power immediately started producing new laws, some of which were discriminating Russian speaking people of Ukraine. (law about russian language, about WW-2 monuments, some ultra-nationalistic stuff) People in the Eastern Ukraine went on to demonstrations in their own cities against those pro-Western "government" decisions and then Russia made a move. Those discrimination laws were vetoed, but Russian speaking people are no longer believe in their own well being under the new command of maidan.
5. Officially, there is no Russian army in Ukraine other than in or near Sevastopol base. It is told that a big part of armed people in Crimea are Berkut soldiers, who was escaped from Kiev. Yeah, I know, it's an open secret, but there's no official war moves by official Russian army. And looks like wouldn't be.
6. Many people of Crimea are really cheering for those soldiers. https://twitter.com/vezhlivo for example (scroll down, there's a lot of photos).
7. No one wants a war. Soldiers are just forbidding a move from Kiev to give people an opportunity to make their own decision about their future. The only question of future referendum is about more autonomy for Crimea from Kiev, but as a part of Ukraine. No one talks about future of Crimea as a part of Russia.
8. I think, the play for Russia here is to protect a Black Sea fleet base and people of russian ethnicity in the East. "The Russians don't leave their people behind" is a well-known saying.

BTW, I like how chill the discussion is here, with only some exceptions.

More propaganda in the twitter you linked, funny how in the all the photos it's either some hot women or children!

It is easy to dismissively call something that's not supporting your point of view a propaganda. It doesn't cancel the facts that are portrayed there.

Hot woman? :)

hot women, children and the elderly, thanks for strengthening my point

She's barely 40! :)

damn, polandball need to save EU feggots again :/
http://i.imgur.com/7Nzvvnk.png?1

source: http://www.reddit.com/r/polandball/

The UN - live: http://webtv.un.org/

edit: meh, over already.

West will probably take Urkraine , then the IMF will give them a few bilion ´´loan´´ to restore what was lost during this uprising and the IMF will have made another country into Dept Slaves.

who is next....

I agree, they should starve instead.

I am really overwhelmed by your keen but stupid remark

i like RussiaToday but she doesnt know at all why RUS had to secure that point so beein emotional like this with no substential knowledge especialy for a journalist is pathetic :(

This is really pathetic. She almost cried about the thing she knows nothing about.
womensmeme.jgp

Bait taken. Ah so is that a thing being pathetic for "crying" about violence and war? Is that how you knowledgeable people see the world? When sacrifices were made by men who hoped that next generations would shape the world better it wasn't meant for that...

There was a civil war in Ukraine, between ukranians and ukranians on Maidan. They killed each other. And she cries about rUsSiAnS ArE Ev1l! Not a single shot was made by russian troops in Cremea. They just standing there and protecting the region. They wont go deeper west. Nobody wants a war. Yes this speech was pathetic.

If you interpret it this way and want to manipulate a speech in order to look more appealing to some people here: sure.

She clearly said the people are the real losers, they are in the middle of what several nations are doing, and military interventions are never the answer: did you even watch and listen? If you are taking a few steps back before you even jump to conclusions you would have concluded that not only Russia is pointed in her speech. Yeah she made it look like Russia is the only true evil during these 74 seconds.

Smh.

Just listen exactly first 30 secs. And then just emotional blablabla. Are u an Oprah fan? How is this emotional shit important? She is american, who the fuck cares. West ukranians are not poor, they are dumb. They did't see the country will split? Back to the kitchen Abby <3

Well sir, in two lines you did spit so many faulty generalizations that Chaplin's grave had to open to let the poor man get your message erased by the sunlight. Also how do you want to discuss and make progress if you are starting to write things that nobody has said? Don't call her action pathetic if you're not even better.

Clearly you have nothing to say. The amount of pathos is too damn high.

What do you want anyone to say about "She is american, who the fuck cares" or "West ukranians are not poor, they are dumb" "They did't see the country will split? Back to the kitchen Abby <3"?

This is café-bar conversation level as we say over here, if this is what you're looking for go ahead...

Come back when you will understand that throwing generalizations around not only will never make you look smart, but it's a waste of time for yourself and everyone else.

Also this applies to many people here... it just shows that you guys had a very strong education huh?

Oh god, nevermind dude. You try to look smart so much, that you just became an asshole. Abby's opinion is just an opinion of a random young american woman. And you try to make a cult of her. Plus she knows nothing about Ukraine (0:25). I tried to point this moment to you. She is crying not because she cares about ukranians, she cries because she is terrified. She fears next WW. She think that it could happen, but it's a bs. Almost all women acting the same in some moments. I guess you don't have much experience with them. And i don't feel writing a wall of text to you about Ukraine. There are plenty of them already. Just try to study several sources and you will build your own opinion at last. Gl.

See, I'm the asshole but you've been the one who has been saying things that I've never said, and even she even said, read again my post above, all of this are your interpretation, these are not facts, you make conclusions out of nothing, you make conclusions about things that had nothing to do with what I either said or she said. I don't even support her, I knew that posting this video would make you and some users jump to non senses only.

She cries, she fears another WW? Well congrats for figuring it out from these 74 seconds. So what? It's "bullshit"? So many women act that way, thus I don't have much experience with them? So now I gotta try to study several sources to build my own opinion?

See, and you're saying I'm an asshole, do you even read what you're saying? Who's the one who's insulting here? You. Who's the one who started saying that someone doesn't know "shit" (although she said it herself I don't see the point to rub it more haha) thus that person's point of view is useless ("who the fuck cares"): you.

If talking normally with proper arguments without jumping directly to fallacies, faulty generalizations is trying "to look smart so much", then you are the problem here. Stick to the subject nobody needs your insults and off topic elements.

(Notice how I didn't curse one bit, something that would require way too much effort for you I guess, can't keep it gentle with you, so I as I said come back when you'll learn how to discuss because for now you only call for non necessary insults)

edit: if you need help or a tutorial on "how to discuss" here is a good tip, do you know the Godwin's Law? Well let's say the rule is to not mention anything about the Nazism to get a smooth conversation, and to have a proper conversation the rule is almost the same stick to the point and only that don't go around and use your insults to try "to win" your arguments because you want to act tough here, don't worry nobody here cares if you win that argument...

That‘s a dispute not a conversation. Dispute has no rules. You saying about sticking to the point, but you are far away from the subject yourself. You only focused on me.
"That‘s not what she said", "that‘s not what he said“, “US is in Iraq because they said they are bringing democracy", are you really that easy? My questions is "who is saying", "why is he saying", "how is he saying". Content is secondary. That‘s how i make a conclusion. And i‘m right. Because i don‘t trust her. You are both random people to me with no "weight" at all. That simple. Thereto you are bubbling like her, not knowing anything about this subject. Your argument are not even invalid, there are none of them. Your interpret of her speech is really laughable to me. Are you a little kid? You can‘t be that pure and innocent. Everybody lies.
"You can‘t insult people" Really? Thats internet, ok? I can call anyone a slut xD

You decided if it's a conversation or not, since you don't want to discuss normally, then don't complain about the form of my replies (cf your own posts above). Sure dispute has no rules, but between men, real discussions show who can argue and who can not. You use fallacies non stop, it's what people who are usually wrong do. I didn't say you are wrong (yet), I am saying you act like someone who is wrong. I focused on you, because you were wrong about something so simple. You had few elements in a 74 seconds video to gather, yet you are unable to understand its content. You keep going on writing things that nobody said, even in your last post.

Am I that easy? I don't know, try me?

You are right? Good. Glad you got the approval of a population. We are both random people to you? Well so are you. What's the problem? Why do you even say that?

I interpreted her speech? Since when? I did a paraphrase = look up the definition, it's absolutely the opposite of an interpretation. I quoted exactly what she said. So are you still right here?

Yes I don't have any arguments about the Ukrainian situation. I mean I do, but I haven't even exposed anything yet, you didn't even ask me anything about it, there was no starting point. I replied to you at first because YOU started your non sense about that reporter in that video.

I'm not a little kid, yes everybody lies, yes it's the internet, yes you can call anyone a slut. But you see that's not the point. You missed it. And seeing that you did miss the point only tells me that you don't understand anything.

Wow, some solid graphomania.

Maybe ;), but I don't think.

I can't see any arguments in your posts. You tell him to read several sources and it does look like you are the one who only relays on one source (even if you think you read more). Truth is always somewhere in the middle, but it is Russian army invading country which it says is independent. How can you say that Russian soldiers are protecting people and order. If Ukraine is independent then why Ukrainian soldiers are not used for that task?

We are talking about exact video. Not about Ukraine or Russia.

btw. is anyone in Russia really watching "Russia Today" ?

Are you sure its not just a part of bigger cake? Maybe somebody just created 'independand' journalist in Russia ;)

Russia Today is not broadcasted in Russian language, so almost no one watches it here. It made for the west to provide another point of view, to be another source of information. I watch it from time to time when clicking through the channels, it is amusing.

Yes. And it's a cable channel not federal.

Wow, what a biased creature. Watch more Russian tv.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/russia-toda...ive-on-air

hah haha

Message from Editor-in-Chief of RT
Scroll to english version.

what about it?

Looks staged, as expected.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/0...y2ZfKL-P0d

she is keen

I'm with Ukrainian people.
Will post under the ukrainian flag as a sigh of solidarity with them.
And its not only about esr, I've took part in several anti-military events in Moscow and will attend every one of the upcoming.

But anything i do, could not help me to get rid of feeling that fucking shame.

Ukranian people? Which one? If you feel ashamed you better keep this flag. Russia is very big and we need to be strong and sometimes aggressive to keep our territories and influence. Unfortunately we are not a small european country, we can't afford to be weak. The whole world is anti-russian, we just used to it. Stop being a liberal pussy. I'm against war myself, but there wont be a war between ukranians and russians don't be ridiculous. You have double standartd my friend, look at what USA just did in Ukraine, Maidans blood is on their hands, don't forget. And it's not a propaganda, everyone knows that. There is no aggression in Cremea by the russians btw.

imo fault about Maidans blood is on both sides, and result of politics of both sides. Sadly, Nobody interests about ukrainians people. And maybe there is no goverment in the world where somebody care about people.

btw. That offer from Russia about 17 billions (or smth) could be the start of 'provocation', IF Russia really want Crimea.
and I'm not sure if fear about 'ukrainian facists' is really true.

and ofc there is no aggression when you got ukrainian army in your pocket ;)

but. I aggree with that maybe whole world is against Russia, but this is a bit how the world works. unfortunately.

imo we shouldnt treat it personally, we dont really have any influence about it ;)

Yeh, too much hate between regular people coz of politics. I'm tired myself. All i read in russian, german, english is just a shitty propaganda. Let's just stay positive.

"Strong" is invading friendly country with hundreds years of common history with you, which trusts you and even lets you have military bases on its territory, invading without ANY good reason at all? Where's not even admitted genocide of russians in Crimea, but a SINGLE documented murder? Fuck, where's a SINGLE admitted violation of rights?

That is not behavior of somebody strong, its pure concentrated weakness. And paranoia. And betrayal. A behavior of a paranoidal caveman.

If you welcome this fucked-up invasion that could lead to a full-scale bloodlust, i wish that you, and every one of your closest friends and relatives will be mobilized and went to the very foremost front of the upcoming war.

That would sound fair enough for "liberal pussy" like me.

I repeat, there will be no war. Don‘t be scared.

And, i beg your pardon, who are you to affirm that?

We (because our government acts on behalf of us all) already did EVERYTHING to start the war. We created all the conditions.
Its just the other side haven't started shooting at the yesterday's brothers yet.

And you better comfort your children, mister, not me, i have my own already.

Excuse me Sir, but as a French I think the behavior of my government, being the good doggy of the USA, have done at least as much as yours when it comes to encourage a war.

It's interesting to talk to a Russian that is against the Crimea business though. How would you define the weight of your point of view in Russia ? Are there a lot of people like you, or is it clearly a vast majority of Russian happy with Crimea becoming Russian again ?

See for yourself. This is from the March Against War that was on the last weekend in Moscow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbTWVBzQEH8&am...t=1h27m59s

Yes, we're minority now. But the one who has responsibility and acts, while the majority is faded and not gonna be on streets or do anything unless its about their own money.
And you dont need the tens of millions to change the regime. Hundreds of thousands is enough. If they are really, really, really angry and know that they're right.

Well... that's a part of the problem, why should a minority which is very determined take control over the silent majority ?

I'm not saying that I don't consider it legitimate, the majority should react if a minority tries to take control and if they do nothing well maybe they deserve to lose their comfort.

What do you actually criticize about Putin government ? What would you do differently ? I'm asking because I know nothing about the Russian political scene but I'd like to know more because I'm fed up with people opening their big mouthes while they don't know shit about anything.

Actually, all the big changes in world history were made by the active minority, forcing the inactive majority to transformation that has to happen. Because nothing ever changes by its own, all the systems, including political ones tend to stability and on the other hand, there is a massive force of inertia dictating people's behavior - its been calculated that in general, in any country, around 35% of people support the current regime NO MATTER WHAT. They're fond of Father's figure, afraid of changes, you name it. USSR would last forever, because most of 250 millions were okay with living in poverty while getting ready to war with them damned capitalists. Most of americans were okay with slavery and then segregation. And so on, so far.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Putin's electorat, nobody is stopping them from going out to the streets to stand for their believes, its just they DONT HAVE ANY. All the street events supporting Putin was organized exactly the same way how it was in USSR - you gather thousands of local officials, teachers and so on by force - simply promising troubles on job in case of not attending.

Putin's political system is a populist thievish autocracy, excellent for anyone participating in thievery, not bad to those jerking off to "Olympics" and "Cold War" new seasons in their tvs, devastating for the others. For the last 2 decades, due to good state of affairs about oil, trillions and trillions and trillions flooded through Russia all the way to... offshores. Without any trace at all, well, except palaces for elite bureaucrats, leaving my country with the scattering infrastructure of soviet 1960-1970's all around - the roads, the subways, the buildings, the communications, the energy system, the transport... like, EVERYTHING is falling apart while we're in a middle of a fucking golden age if you look at the numbers of oil incomes. The huge technogenic catastrophes are already happening - with the submarines (Kursk), hydroelectric power stations (Sayano-shushenskaya GES), trains, planes, ships, and it will be only worse.

At the same time populist regime is flirting with its core-supporters, these very 35%, all the time, acting like we're superpower as USSR was, holding an Olympics (which costed 50 billions), and annexing Crimea (which already costed tens of billions to our economy due to fall of fonds and will cost much much much more) while we simply do not have decent hospitals for our elders, schools, kindergartens and 30% of a country do not even have gas, in a 21 century, man.

And there is no legal way to change it, i've been a spectator on a last elections and many of my friends were - they're just faking it. They created the automized system, GOSVYBORY (STATE ELECTIONS), it works that way - after the "paper" stage you need to enter numbers of calculated votes in each of the election-district - then TADA! you can change it into everything you want - and then the famous numbers of 146% (!) of total voters appears.
http://rusdemotivator.ru/uploads/12-14-11/132...atelej.jpg
You could manipulate it the way you want.

So we simply got to do what we got to do. Brave Ukrainians have made it, now its our turn.

And what kind of system or society do you want to be similar to ? Do you want to create something special for Russia or copy an other country system ?

Besides, in France the government made gay marriage (and adopting) legal while thousands of hundreds people were against it and demonstrated about it.

Let's imagine these people make a Maidan-like move, blocking an important place in Paris, rioting, etc. asking for the law to be removed.

Would you consider it legit ? Who decides what is better and what is worse ?

I'm afraid we simply have to agree on disagreement, sir, the discussion seems quite pointless to me. I find your examples completely irrelevant.

What system? Fucking representative elective democracy, nobody ever proposed any better than that. The thing is current regime in Russia isn't representative, its a "taxation without a representation" model, isn't elective, the same fuckers in charge over 20 years, all last elections were just faked-up, and its de-facto autocracy, we do not have a single free media left here.

I'm talking about the people's right to riot against government, which actions led to a total destruction of civilization in my country (i live here, i see it everyday, everywhere), degradation of all social institutes, the extinction of population, lack of almost all civil rights and finally - to a war with all-time brothers Ukrainians, while the mofos in charge are feeling SICK of gold? This is mofo Kadyrov riding, and you know what? He's got the SMALLEST cortege amongst them bitches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws7wivahqg4

And you're talking about people rioting against TASTES of other people. Sure they will not do a SHIT significant about it, because they know its not a matter of life and death, nobody will risk his life for a something which isn't bigger than his life. As people do risk it for freedom.

And as you somehow haven't heard it already, i may tell you that it is a well known international principle that people have a right to revolution if its totally impossible to defend their vital civil rights in the legitimate ways. And i'm talking about the realization of that right and at the same time nobody's taking away somebody's else right to cheer and fight for the regime. I've repeated multiple times and i will repeat again - if somebody wants to go out in streets for Mr.Putin, nobody's stopping them. In the end, all we want to achieve is not a "tyranny of a minority" but a normal work of elective system. Where fuckers in charge will fucking go away if they suck in what they do, while working on us, the people.

I'm okay with the pointless discussion, but I'm not sure we'd disagree on a lot of things in the end, more the contrary because I can very much understand everything you say about corrupt politics covered in gold while ordinary people are poor and so on.

Still, people that demonstrated against gay mariage and adoption didn't do it because of gay people tastes, it was about what they consider, and still do, as a civilisation change, etc. I don't see how it is irrelevant. I just wanted to know if you considered every riot okay or if some were more important than others and you answered.

Besides, I don't know how something can be considered an "international principle"... these kind of things make no sense to me, revolutions are too complex. In France, we had a King and nobles, with Christianity as a moral base. Nowadays we have politics, which are quite similar to nobles actually, with free-masonery and laicity as a moral base, the fall of King and nobles has been good for bourgoisie, but they didn't do shit in the streets, poor people did.

I'm not saying it's good or bad, but revolutions can very much be encouraged by foreign interests. It's interests vs interests, that's all. And in the end, who's the strongest.

You know, in France we also have corruption, we also have ultra rich people being extremely influent in the media and politics, and they defend what THEY think the society should be (free market, free travel for people and goods, gay rights, whatever). All I see is that where I live, 20% of the population find the government and president are doing a good job, while it seems the percentage is much higher for Putin in Russia. That's what I find strange.

The way ordinary people live in France and Russia are not the same at all that's for sure, and I wish your country will devellop and your people will benefit more from resources and so on. Only, it's better if it's done for Russians by Russians.

If there are riots in Russia, that's for sure USA / EU will do everything they can to help rioters, but I'm not sure they'll do it for the greater good of the Russian people.

I liked talking with you even though it seems it wasn't the case for you. Have a nice day !

Okay, i admit i got a little too emotional, its a sensitive things for me, i thought you were trolling a little with mentioning all these parades of true heterosexuals. Nice talking to you too, i see you got some point, whether it completely correlates with mine or not.

Fair enough, I must admit that i agree with most that you've written in the last post.

I didn't said that some riots are better than others. Every riot is a result of huge amount of people being offended so deep that they dare to come out from the zone of comfort to the streets risking confront with their bare hands with the special forces and to found themselves afterwards in a hospital with half of their bones, including the facial ones, broken hard. Sure they have a damn good reason.

I just think not every riot will lead to a change of the regime because not every one could, for example, simply last for a 2 straight months in a streets in the coldest winter period, while its dreadfully freezing, against thousands of armored riot-police, being crippled every day and even murdered, like Ukrainians did. It must be your absolute supreme inner necessity, a matter of life and death. So the importance of the cause itself will determine whether its just a single riot or a start of something bigger.

What about the foreign influences - yes, they're definitely a quantity in an equation. But you have to prevent the conspiracy theories from seizing too much space inside your head, because you could suspect a plot everywhere, if you try well enough. An enemy of your enemy is not always your enemy. And even if it IS your enemy - sometimes there is not much of a choice, you just do what you must do, its a question of being honest to yourself, a question of still remaining a human being, it is you. The USSR must have been destroyed NO MATTER if it was in the interests of them damned capitalists, just because it was an ugly pure evil to its citizens, and nowadays Russia is quickly becoming exactly the same monster again.

How could we change the power legitimately here if there isn't a single alternative party in the parliament, elections are being manipulated, independent journalists are being killed and peaceful activist are being prisoned? We were absolutely sick with the corruption all these 20 years but nobody would google for a molotov recipe yet. Its a sad thing to say but we could live with the corruption, even that monstrous. If the majority likes to be treated like vassals - its their sacred right.
But a war is a last drop. Enough is enough.

I'm not a fan of revolutions, i feel sick of violence, i hate crowd, but i have kids that deserve a better country than that monster. And i prefer to force the fuckers to emigrate instead of doing it myself.

You are with eastern or western ukrainian people?

Whole thing is a bit smaller than showed in media, imo.
There is no even single shot there and everything looks quite calm.

From today news it looks like... Russia never wanted to really attack Ukraine.

Maybe it was test for the west and Russia now see how weak EU and USA are.

I didn't see anything from Russia like "prepare to war". The West media said it.

Due to international law, having your army troops on a territory of a sovereigh country equals declaration of a war. Any ukranian soldier or just a guy with molotov ALREADY has a moral and legal right to attack invaders. And the first violence could provoke rivers and lakes and oceans of blood. It would be a war de-facto, however russian officials would name it.

I'm with all ukrainian people. Everyone will suffer if the conflict enters hot phase.

USA sending their troops to other countries all the time and there is no problem...

There IS a problem with that.

But invading peaceful resort region of your own ally with no single good reason at all is not the solution of that problem. Thats a fucking parody of it.

Russia will never attack Ukraine, you're too hype. There is no real conflict. Actually I see some good points of that move - 1. West had to act fast as protection side and help (to maintain being "friends" atleast until signing EU free trade agreement) - they already giving money to Ukraine, which could take atleast more time without "conflict". 2. US admitted Russian reasons for that move, so they give atleast some respect - which is good to know.

Define "attack".

If you will find me in your house, uninvited, armed, would it look like an attack for you? Walking from room to room, playing with knife or a barrel in front of you, grabbing your things, changing your name to mine on your post-box? Talking with your wife and kids?

Would it be a real attack already or i should actually start doing something with my knife and a barrel to a people you're obliged to defend?

And would the stories about some neighbour Sam doing that all the time comfy you?

I got your idea, but its not an accurate example. Because its not uninvited and all your images seem not quite right https://twitter.com/vezhlivo

But I agree that it hurts Kiev and can imagine that western Ukranians are just boiling.

https://twitter.com/vezhlivo
OMG, INVADERS, MURDERERS, RAPIST, SOVIETS, COMMUNISTS! - LOLZ

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bhq3VvWCcAAjzcc.jpg
hue hue hue

Define "uninvited".

Due to agreement, troops may be only located on their bases. Especially, after the country-host demanded multiply times to them to immediatly return to the bases.Otherwise, its occupation and equals declaring a war.
We're not even talking here about additional thousands of units, with no connection to Chernomorskiy fleet at all, that had been transported to Crimea all last days.

What about "vezhlivo" account, its a rare example of an accurate work of a PR-backing of our goverment's actions, but it doesnt turn clear violation of international laws into something else.

If your nephew likes me in your house, but you, host, want me out, do i have the right to stay? You're the host, not your nephew.

If you claim to do everything according to the law, then the current and still the only legit president Yanukovich signed the request to allocate forces not only Crimea government. As it was already said there were no referendum neither elections to give the necessary rights to new government. PR backing? You have some evidence of inapropriate behavior other than forces being present there? Anyway the topic is going to the end gradually, no point to pump it up

Man, fuck the politics, you know what i'm about.

The military invasion is a Bitch. It could lead to a thousands and thousands and thousands people killed. It always does.

So. The reason to that invasion should be GOOD AS HELL.
It must WORTH these potential thousands of lives. Like, saving the tens of thousands of minority from the inevitable genocide.

And where's the victims of ukranian antirussian "nazi regime" in Crimea? Where's a fucking single admitted violation of rights of minority?

It is WE now that provoke the bloodbath. Our government, from behalf of US all. We're the bustards now.

That's my only point.

Have some news for you:
1) Only Rada can sign such requests
2) yanuchesku 'suddenly' owned additional rights without any referendum
3) Everything is documenting now(incl. marauding by 'brave' russian soldiers) ,Russia will receive the bill later, after investigation, this is inevitable

I can take the fact that it could be unlawful, and maybe unnecessary, but marauding should be proved, I highly doubt it unless provocations took place.

And please do investigate things, all the things that happened and we'll see who the new government are, who is to blame for marauding etc...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8
http://ria.ru/world/20140305/998305265.html?utm_source=vk1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLxSlq_hJu8

About phone record: this is only opinion, nothing more.
About 'investigation': there are many experts (including from England) working now with bullet trails etc.
But if you take in mind experience of all previous deaths (i.e. militia always kills first) - it is not a big problem to find 'initiators'
Also, about 'ghost' russian army: http://censor.net.ua/news/274348 =)

Man on photo is leutenant - officer, they have another document of identity, and this "military ticket" they receive after demobilisation. Sorry thats a cheap, ignorant fake.

De facto initiators are protestors, initiators of shooting? Depends, plastic and rubber - police, metal pellets - protestors, who was killed first - I guess won't find out, the huge thing to investigate is sniping.

No really.. what's your position? This revolution is a chaotic natural thing when just ordinary people spontaneously got together, expressed their striving to EU, being shot by police and new government right from normal people took their seats?

>Man on photo is leutenant - officer, they have another document of identity, and this "military ticket" they receive after demobilisation. Sorry thats a cheap, ignorant fake.

Proof is on odnoklassniki, just search

>De facto initiators are protestors, initiators of shooting? Depends, plastic and rubber - police, metal pellets - protestors, who was killed first - I guess won't find out, the huge thing to investigate is sniping.

First kills investigation: http://starshinazapasa.livejournal.com/753201.html

>No really.. what's your position?

I'm just defending ordinary people

That material for kills is interesting, proves something for sure.

I'm more about other things, i'm not going to say that there are no Russian forces in Crimea, and no civil protestors died going against police.

My point is Ukraine always claims that it can't stant interference in their business, and sort it out themselves just gtfo Russia. But how about Nooland info about 5 bln on building a democracy, many EU and US politician visits to maidan, their phone talks about what president to set up, and simply just interfering http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPybIzkWSdc

More than that sniping 20.02 is highly possible provocation not from police side to get a final impulse to take over Yanukovich without any legal procedure.

Therefore people may be just deceived thinking about new good government and EU values... but getting another thieves with western interests, maybe even hands in blood for 20.02 and anti Russian policy. US interest - to split us apart like big countries and unions.. Small = weak. USSR, Jugoslavia etc... Now will solve middle east problem, then maybe Belarus etc

yanukovich was totally controlled by putin, but he was bad executor.

till 20.02 he had full control over militia and army, he just scared because it is his nature

now it is something like 'strike-back' because of (obviously ) lost region influence

Totally controlled? Why he didn't enter Customs Union then? He is just a Ukranian oligarch and thief, and was jailed in USSR in 1968 and 1970 for robbery and something like causing injuries - he grew in gangs ... ukranians elected him w/o bothering to look into his bio why? maybe because Timoshenko even is bigger thief? Now you'll elect other ones and if no success who is to blame? Putin ofc

>Totally controlled? Why he didn't enter Customs Union then?

Because it is not military task =)

He declared EU direction few years ago - sure, to get & steal credits. So called "trade war" was just a show to demonstrate his fake wavering and set people opinion to the 'right' direction.

Also just compare with putin tactics: make some illusion of discussion then hit more, make some illusion of discussion then hit more etc,

>Now you'll elect other ones and if no success who is to blame? Putin ofc

All what is now happening in Crimea is a pure sabotage from Russia, no need to touch rest of the country via this shit

Ok, what military tasks Ukraine had last years for Putin to control? The main thing is always economy to have something to steal.

Discussions concearnig gas prices or what? It cant happen to have benefits both from EU and RU cooperation what yanukovich wanted for a long time... economy is too different, boarders cant be opened to both directions.

The attitude towards Russia and Putin was the same before Crimea situation

too funny
http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-poli...net-worth/

after analyzing all tha shit I will blame the West about everything. They wanted tooo much, and Putin said them "enough".
From Russia point of view I bit understand why they did all of it.

And Im 100% sure now that Eastern Europe is alone and nobody care about it. so we need to be stronk by ourselves between EUfeggots and "Soviets"

So, we will develop god damn space hussars and we will fuck ya all ;]

Thanks for support! Hope there were more people like you and you were not jailed for your freedom of speech!

http://ponarseurasia.org/memo/will-ukraine-jo...toms-union

Putin needs the Ukraine. But the only thing he can offer the Ukraine for bowing down to his rule is cheap gas and the identification with proud Mother Russia. Many Ukraines are smart enough to see that this is not worth economic downfall and corruption.
Sure EU's interest in the Ukraine is itself significant and supports the idea that the protests have in part been fuelled by the west which gives Putin an argument of the movement being just infiltration from the west. Propaganda that capitalism is the source of all evil and the banks will make them slaves is playing in Putins hands. But when you look at the deals offered to the Ukrainians to trade more with the EU and on the other hand join Eurasian Union it looks like Putin is the one who wants to make them slaves, the deal with EU allows them much more freedom in dealing with their own issues, while supplying help to help rebuilding their economy.
Putin enforces strong Mother Russia pictures to legitimize his geopolitical superiority in the region, whereas when it comes to wealth and well-being of citizens can't offer them much, so Ukrainians decided against his rule. Now he enforces his Propaganda-machinery to win them back, but hopefully won't risk civil war..

1. Ukraine is independent country for 23 years, they are not even signed for CIS, its total paranoya. Stop blaming Russia for Ukranian aligarch families pillaging money and destroying economy.

2. Concearning economic benefits - without customs duties with EU sure at first people would be happy to have cheaper Audi and clothes... they dont care that most Ukranian industry will die because they won't have sufficient money to meet european requirements and then will be pushed away by more developed european manufacturers. Maybe except for metal export and few more positions.
Some Ukranians think that signing this shit will give freedome to get a job in EU and have no visa - it doesn't touch those things at all.

Trade union with Russia, Belorussia, Kazakhstan could help to rejoin and improve many vehicle factories including aviation, get a cheaper gas and oil... and form our econimic cluster which is not interesting for west for sure. Because of Ukranian government stupidity and strong western lobby we've already built our factories for aviation engines (we bought them in ukraine), construct alternative gas pipelines, etc - because of such stupid ideas about Russia wants to rule Ukraine.

Ok with EU choice if they want so much, Russia will loose good trade possibilities sure, but it could be way worse for Ukraine 27% of export, 30% of import with Russia will obviously decrease, expensive gas and oil and no working economy to pay for it.

Sure the Ukraine signed CIS -> http://www.usubc.org/site/member-news/cis-fre...into-force

That's also one of the reasons why joining the Eurasian Union isn't very attractive to them. Within the current framework of free-trade agreements they have everything they need (well, apart from cheap gas and "military protection"), joining the Eurasian Union would mean giving up building free-trade agreements with other countries on their own, but limiting the scope of their trade to Russia.

Ukraine did not sign CIS http://i.imgur.com/GPaYtL3.jpg

Its a free trade agreement that gives some benefits but its far from Customs Union of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan.

Right, so they didn't ratify it, although participating in it and having all the privileges of a member. But they did sign the CISFTA which I was referring to with the article above, stating that they don't need to give up their sovereignty to join Eurasian Union.

Russia trade is 52% to EU - sanctions would be quite harsh for both.

I mean privileges are different in those associacions, anyway its easy to calculate and make a decision for Ukraine... EU will give easy fast benefits for people, then the economy gradually dies and people leave country to work outside. Russia will suffer both from Ukraine going to EU and from EU sanctions but i doubt it happen because its mutually bad.

Personally I don't give two shits about ukranians or russians.
All I care about is the amount of shit that pours into my country from other countries, so make your own shitholes work instead of jumping ship and capsizing my shit, cos pretty soon there will be a civil war in the UK due to all these shitty foreigners and the useless BS they bring that made their own countries such a failure they would travel thousands of miles to live like pigs.

You needed these all foreigners. Ofc now, you dont want them anymore. As usual, history proved it. Without them you will be fucked up too, in the past.

Also EU made some coutries failure too.

You are such a racist douchebag. Why do you objectify people based on their income and education. By that standard you would hate yourself when you look in the mirror.

You are an uneducated, delusional, low income inferiority complex welsh kid who projects his self hatred to other people.
You come off as a bitter loser who failed to overcome his inferiority complex. From what I have seen from you posts I gathered a few assumptions about you and they are all sad. It seems you have been born in a family you would consider "trailer white trash". This reflected on you from an early age and made you feel you were nothing special. In order to beat that feeling throughout your life you tried to convince yourself that you are not like your keen, that you are different, that you can be something special.

But the way you think about "being special" and the way you judge people is the reason why you are in such a state of an endless loop of disappointment. Your parents are not trailer trash and neither are you. Whatever economic hardship they faced and the struggle that encompassed them over time limited their option and turned their reality into a bitter life. They might not have given you money or a good education, but they might have cared and loved u.

Education, money are not something that should define you. There could be a person with the biggest potential of skill but he is born in some poor place in India. He will never get a chance to showcase his skills. Is that kid "trailer trash"?

People all have gifts in different areas, no matter the ethnicity of place. While someone might be great at creating wealth they might have no singing capability. Now to a great singer he might be looked as inferior, but if that singer is poor to a wealthy person he could be the one looked as inferior.

What I'm saying is the value of people should not be based on such abilities but rather on the content of their character and the goodness of their heart.

People in this world have different skills and we should not judge each other based on our ability to make money. Some people have the ability to accumulate real wealth some don't, but all people under a stable economic system should be able to earn a healthy living.

But the saddest part of your post is the fact that you have no economic concept of why these foreigners in your country are not a really the threat or the reason why your country is going down the pipes.

The reason the system is going down is because of the banking system. Through money manipulation, debt interest, heavy taxes the banking families have transferred all their assets and brought the countries they control to their knees. People are in survivor mode and they want someone to blame. The perfect scapegoat in this scenario is to bring some immigrants in and install feelings of hate between the people and focus on their differences. This takes the heat of the banking families and their puppets in governments and corporations.

The same strategy was used in Rome before it collapsed.

Now even if no immigrants came over to UK the situation would be the same. Remember these people from wherever they came from they escaped the same system that is destroying the country they flee to. Their countries are the endgame result of these systems.

Divide and conquer is the most used strategy by the ruling elite and people still fall for it.

You're trying to show people a bit of light on human integrity here? It won't be easy, you only see hatred here, this from the same people who will tell you that you are ignorant.

"Why do you objectify people based on their income and education."

I never said anything of the sort, and your deluded anonymous (cowardly) rant is one of the many reasons why I don't want scummers like you over here.

Rage harder.

I am not from UK nor do I plan moving there. I visited London once few years back, nice place, enjoyed my time.

I am white guy born into a rich family. My rant was nothing but an objective view of you. I have been lurking this form for a while since I like watching quake and your sad existence is hard to escape.

I wanted to bring a dose of reality to your mass delusion so that you would maybe develop some self awareness, critical thinking and not be such a shackled person mentally.

But alas to no avail.

Anyhow good luck.

Lets stick to the facts.

You said... (among a load of other shit)

"Why do you objectify people based on their income and education"

In relation to me saying...


There was NOTHING in my reply that even warranted that response from you, its clear you're neither educated or self aware, if you were, you would not have allowed me to utterly destroy you so easily, but then at least we know why you hide behind an alias.

Tried your luck a 1000 times before and still licking your ass no doubt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_peSCECc4I&am...mp;t=2m45s

stop bashing others countries lol.

Just because you dont understand why your oligarchy uses social dumping to fuck you doesnt mean others don't.

time is ticking

It has nothing to do with British oligarchy .

it has to do with anonymous cunts in Brussels trying to create an EU superstate at the expense of national sovereignty THROUGHOUT europe.

Most people in the UK (inc the government) want out of the shitty system and it will happen too.

I can't wait for the EU superstate. Maybe then we'll be able to economically compete with China, USA and Russia. Who gives a fuck about some misguided sense of nationhood? It's an archaic idea from a time where long distance travel meant going on 20 miles on your donkey. The idea that there's no cultural unity in EU is bullshit, because on a global scale we're pretty much homogeneous. You know, GLOBAL scale. That's what you need to look at.