Stupid Question: Is CA PQL and TDM/CTF PQL involved in this one?

your question is stupid

yes it is

I just want to know, not trying to flame around here guys : d

why do you choose playing pql over cpm ?

Vig1lante my bad..
its only CA PQL

@ SIHdW3W
we play vampiric pql
i use to play cpma back in the day and for me vampiric pql is the next step
it involves more teamplay and constant action.

There is a reply button, in the comments right top corner.

vamp xD

wow

i found the best part to be when there is 1v2/3 that 1 fucker +backs and spams nades+rockets for 2 minutes. And when i chose not to do that some faggots started to cry for me for not +backing

lol CA

tone your ego down

My ego has nothing to do with CA being lol.

wharts VQPL?

*VPQL

*What's

And the V in VPQL stands for 'vampiric'

ah shit. that's the worst gamemode ever.

*.

can someone explain me exactly why some people are saying that CPM is superior to PQL ?

From what i've seen, PQL seems a lot of fun, and very close to CPM, so i'm wondering.

Vampiric CA @ PQL is so nice, I tried it once. Usually I play vampiric eyetoeye with 350hp and 300ap :D, never tried PQL on it tho.

PQL movement is almost CPM movement, but feels worse (at least imo)
PQL doesn't have double jumps iirc, which is a really important part of CPM
The weapon balance is completely different in CPM
And IMO the worst part, there are no dedicated PQL maps.

really, all you need to do is jump around on cpm22 a bit and then jump around on aero with pql physics and you'll understand

correction, I just checked and double jumps do exist in PQL, but as far as I can tell you can't do the signature 180 stair jumps you can do in CPM, but that might just be me being unfamiliar with PQL

As you corrected, PQL does have double jumps, referred to as Chain Jumps in QL. And while the stair jumps aren't always performed in the same manner, PQL has its own variant of the 180 stair jumps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITbPdkRJg_E&noredirect=1

As for no dedicated PQL maps, yes and no. There is a slew of CPM maps in QL:

Aerowalk
Dismemberment
Foolish Legacy
Phrantic
Realm of Steel Rats
Solid
Toxicity
Use and Abuse
Wicked

Yes, granted PQL's movement and balance is not the same as CPM, but for the most part these maps play great in PQL. Aerowalk is uncomfortable for some because it is a bit better tuned for CPM or VQ3 than PQL, but the rest great imho.

Also a lot of the newer maps in QL were introduced with PQL in-mind, both tested for PQL play as well as specific tricks added.

Although in the end if you're a CPM fan, PQL by no means attempts to out do ProMode. You'll find it inferior and like all good CPM players you'll want to keep playing CPMA and promoting that community (Play More Promode!)! But PQL does hope to capture a bit of that playstyle to help introduce the masses to the concept.

Someday I see PQL evolving a bit further, distancing itself even more from CPM, and eventually may turn into a type of 'Turbo' mode for Quake.

What you said about the maps is exactly what I meant. There are CPM maps in QL, but PQL isn't CPM and imo the maps play way, way better in CPM, because that's what they're actually made for. If someone made a map specifically for the PQL movement and ruleset (tiered armor is a big game changer), then maybe it could start standing on its own, rather than being a (inferior) CPM-clone.

edit: also, does pql use qw mega or vq3 mega? I forgot

but PQL isn't CPM and imo the maps play way, way better in CPM, because that's what they're actually made for

SyncError said "Also a lot of the newer maps in QL were introduced with PQL in-mind, both tested for PQL play as well as specific tricks added."

Which means that the CPM maps in QL also play great in PQL. Also "Yes, granted PQL's movement and balance is not the same as CPM, but for the most part these maps play great in PQL."

So tell me why you think that the maps play way better in CPM ? Give some arguments :D

(tiered armor is a big game changer)

what do you mean by tiered armors ? You mean like the protection ratio ? like 0.44 for green and 0.66 for red ? Or is it something completely different ?

Cause afaik, PQL has tiered armors (like you can't pick up a green armor if you already have red).

PQL movement is almost CPM movement, but feels worse (at least imo)

#care to elaborate ? :D

The weapon balance is completely different in CPM

Are you sure ? Rail does 80dmg just like in CPM, also the shotgun is VERY close to the CPM shotgun. Rockets are faster, just like in CPM. Shaft only does 7-7-7 instead of the 8-8-8 of vq3.
Tbh I think that the current QL weapon balance just fits PQL very well, because QL has pretty much perfect weapon balance.

Wall of text incoming

1. This is something that's mainly caused by subtle and big differences in movement. For example. the chain jumps in PQL are very different from the double jumps in CPM (though you can do similar things with them), but the maps are made with double jumps in mind. Playing them in PQL can give those maps less flow, or make certain jumps impossible. The weapon balance also plays into this (I'll explain the exact differences later on). Like on phrantic/cpm24, the lg is already extremely important in CPM, but because it's much stronger in PQL, it would prolly completely dominate the gameplay. Another example would be the mega health in Use and Abuse/cpm3a. Exiting the mega room gives your opponent a lot of opportunity to deal unreturned damage (EFFICIENT ENGAGEMENT (c) diddyk), but in CPM - because it uses QW mega - the mega generally spawns less, so it's not that big of a deal. PQL uses vq3 mega, which means that either the situation will repeat itself every 35 seconds, or both players will avoid going for mega.
2. I was referring to what syncerror said about the new maps. A map that's made with the vql armor system in mind probably won't play that well in pql and vice-versa. For instance, the hektik port used in CPM has replaced a green armor with a yellow, which makes the game easier for the out of control player in CPM, but would prolly benefit the in control player in vql. Or take pukka/toxicity. A lot of people complain about how someone like raffer or ash can control every item in vql. In CPM, controlling both the yellows and the red would require the in control player to selfdamage and expose himself, or leaving the ya up, which is a risk ofc. And then there is the spawn system. Correct me if I'm wrong, but afaik PQL uses the VQL spawn system, while CPM uses a biased spawn system, where you're more likely to spawn in an advantageous position, but you can still spawn anywhere to make sure the system isn't exploitable like it was in OSP and is in VQL.
3. The chains jumps are not at all similar to double jumps. Double jumps give you extra altitude, but it still feels very reasonable and controlled, while chain jumps give you ridiculous altitudes (someone on esr once called them silly ninja jumps). The cj is different. I believe PQL pretty much uses the VQL cj, which is very, very different from the CPM cj (different execution and different speed). Most important though is the air acceleration gained from bunnyhopping. In CPM, it's really not that much compared to strafe jumping which makes bunnyhopping feel very controlled imo. In PQL it's pretty much ridiculous how easily you gain speed by just bunnyhopping. It makes sharp turns a bit awkward imo.
4. Shaft does 10dmg per hit on CPM, but has a lower fire rate. The result is a weapon that deals less dps but has greater knockback, making it a more defensive weapon. In general, you'll see far less lg usage in CPM than in VQL, even before pros started to use lg more and more. I believe rockets are slightly slower in CPM (1000ups afaik), but the most important difference is this:

Biased RL Damage
Motivation: Reward use of high-skill weaponry.
Splash damage from the RL now follows a Q1/Q2-like scheme (though nothing
like as ubernoobed) where ANY hit does a minimum of 15 damage, and the
damage/distance relationship is biased accordingly, i.e. a shot that does
50 damage in CPM will do ~60 damage in APM. Note that although the base
knockback factor remains the same as in CPM, knockback on splash hits
will also be higher since the base factor is scaled by damage. RL speed,
base damage, splash radius, and max splash damage remain unchanged.

Decreased Splash Vertical Knockback
Motivation: Ameliorate the higher RL knockback.
CPM's vertical knockback base is 150% of CQ3's. APM's is 133% of CQ3's,
or 89% of CPM's. Since an "average" RL hit in APM is ~20% stronger than
in CPM, players were thrown around too much. While this change reduces
the "lift" from a perfect RL shot by a small amount, when coupled with
the previous change it increases lift on an overall basis for the vast
majority of shots, and you can still juggle people very nicely. :P

(APM == modern CPM)
There's also a difference when it comes to plasma:

Increased PG Damage and Knockback, Reduced Speed
Motivation: Reward use of high-skill weaponry.
The PG's *direct hit* damage has been raised from 15 to 20. The splash
damage remains unchanged, and the splash radius is slightly reduced.
These changes promote the PG to "top tier" / "power trio" weapon status.
Knockback has been increased implicity along with damage, but only
slightly: it's now roughly that of the CPM LG.
The projectile's speed has been reduced from 2000 to 1800.
This keeps the weapon extremely dangerous at close range (where it's still
effectively a hitscan weapon) but reduces its utility as a mid-range spam
weapon since good players will be able to dodge it to some extent as was
possible in Doom; and greatly reduces its value for "pure spam" cases on
CTF and other large maps. Speaking of which...
The one significant issue with a strong PG lies not so much with the
weapon itself but with the behaviour of a certain class of player: the
tendency for newbies to simply spam it until they run out of ammo. While
not really a problem in skill games, it becomes a very obvious one in CA
and CTFS, as those gametypes not only have 99% of the newbie population
but also provide the weapon and ammo for free. Fortunately, such people
are far more likely to play RA3 or Threewave than CPMA. :P
Regardless, the ammo limit for the PG has been reduced to 100, which is
more than enough for DM or even TDM play.
The size of the plasma graphic has been reduced too, since I REALLY HATE
the way Q3 does them; and the shots themselves are in reality infinitely
small, contrary to their appearance (especially in VQ3).

Quotes are from arQon

tl;dr: PQL sucks in duel, the difference doesn't really matter in lolca

In regards to #3...

Slightly outdated information about the Chain Jumps. We updated their behavior (along with some other physics) in PQL back in February. They no longer create boost like that.

nice! also, what is vpql?

Vampiric PQL

i should have known that, its fun! but, is it mostly played in ca, or does it work well with other modes?

vpql is vampiric mode with pql settings and its the main mode that we (Rocketeers) play.
We also have a movie played in vpql mode you can find it here on esr http://www.esreality.com/post/2470370/the-roc...fragmovie/
you really have to work for ur frag in vpql because the enemy gains health as he dmg you, so dodge aim and movement and team-play are a big part of vpql.
we even have the honor of fox playing with us from time to time on rulex server (main vpql server) hosted by Rocketeers.
We hope to get the pql / vpql community up on his feet because its a beautiful thing.
So get over @ #pql and lets build the community together.