ESR - New gaming mouse development

<< Comment #3 @ 00:51 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1

Jitter - there will be a prototype which I will test, if people let me know what the main mouse mats are to test, I'll buy them.

Prediction - Off

LOD - 1.5mm - 2mm (aiming for 1.5mm)

Cost - not sure yet, £20-£25, something like that, maybe cheaper. I should have more a more accurate price soon.

BTW, the switches I was going to go with Omron D2F-01F. But can use pretty much any, if people have a preference.

<< Comment #5 @ 01:00 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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Xen_Crypt - Reply to #3

sounds l33t :)

<< Comment #6 @ 01:02 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #3

if people let me know what the main mouse mats are to test

icemat, qck variants, goliathus speed, puretrak talent, and artisan hien hard (I believe this is their most popular mat).

<< Comment #11 @ 01:57 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #6

Ok shouldn't be a problem. I also have:
Qpad CT
Roccat Taito
Mantis control (no longer made but I think its the same as the goliathus control but with a different design?)

Edited by »bst at 01:57 CDT, 26 October 2011

<< Comment #271 @ 10:58 CST, 31 December 2011 >>

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horf - Reply to #11

allsop raindrop , SS SX.

<< Comment #2 @ 00:48 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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0x5f3759df

Buttons are usually the last thing I worry about when considering a mouse, really. If anything I prefer no side buttons.

I'm assuming you've found some OEM shell? I'd really like to see pictures of it.

<< Comment #7 @ 01:17 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2

See OP, sorry one of them is a bit blurry.

<< Comment #8 @ 01:45 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #7

wow, looks great!

<< Comment #10 @ 01:53 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #8

Thanks, glad you like it :)

<< Comment #1991 @ 02:23 CST, 20 February 2013 >>

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MaximilianKohler - Reply to #2

I need side buttons. They're very useful and I don't consider buying mice with only 3 buttons.

It looks like their cheaper mouse(velocity) has 3 buttons and the aurora has 5 so they're pleasing everyone.

<< Comment #4 @ 00:54 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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KittenIgnition

I like side buttons as long as they're placed properly. The mouse I have isn't too bad, but because of the way I grip my mouse, sometimes when I'm doing some crazy shit in CPM, I press mouse4, which is my PTT in Ventrilo. It's a lot better than when I was forced to use ctrl, though.

As long as mouse4 is placed properly, and there's good drivers/utilities for the damn thing, I'm all for it.

<< Comment #9 @ 01:50 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #4

Ok, cheers. I have the same opinion about side buttons, hate it when they get in the way, or when they're so far out of the way that you end up having to be some kind of hand contortionist to press them xD

<< Comment #13 @ 03:04 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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Anonymous (82.120.162.151)

- 50g weight without cord, 80g with cord
- exact centre sensor position
- nice quality
- cord is not stiff, its nice and flexible
- scrollwheel feels good

my tought even if you don't care i think i have good knowledge about mice so here you go :

- sides button would increase mouse weight.
- it would be better if mouse skates were perfect circles (and not stuff like wmo) WITH NO SHARP EDGES AND AT LEAST 0.8mm thick, max 1.2mm thick.
- Don 't waste to much energy/time trying to find the best mouse cord, the best you could do is a totaly naked wmo cord sticked with glue.
- Scroolwheel of wmo is very good IF you delet the armored rubber plastic that is on it.
- position the sensor like the wmo.
- side shape of the mouse should be at least |_| or \_/ .
- LOD is a problem only if it is realy super high 5mm+

- CPI is a matter of sensor, but if you want it to perform good everywhere i think 1000 dpi is the minimum, according to phoon.us/mouse playing 1920x1200 at sensi 5 p/y 0,022 and fov 90 you need over 830 CPI. Just saying but for me 450 would be way enough. Depends what is your audience target. SO here come the big deal. CPI switch, no CPI switch etc, button switch/driver switch... reliability if you go for CPI switch etc etc

Good luck =)

<< Comment #16 @ 03:41 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #13

Thanks! Any opinions/ideas are appreciated. I agree with most of what you say :)

<< Comment #12 @ 02:47 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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end0rphine

Looks kinda like a WMO. Looks interesting.

<< Comment #14 @ 03:17 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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illwill_

nice to see someone taking initiative. i prefer side buttons but shape and sensor are more important

Edited by illwill_ at 03:18 CDT, 26 October 2011

<< Comment #15 @ 03:26 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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Six16

Side buttons are a must for me, DA & Copperhead placement was good.

Shape looks fine, like a cross between the DA & Pilot & WMO.

I don't like the look of the mousewheel though :S

Edited by Six16 at 03:28 CDT, 26 October 2011

<< Comment #25 @ 05:43 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #15

Yeah, mouse wheel isn't a looker, but it works nice :)

<< Comment #17 @ 03:43 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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Conditioned

Posted this recently. Got someone to code firmwares? If not, maybe Razer or Steelseries (or CM with experience of 3090) might sell that service to you.

http://www.overclock.net/mice/1143062-mousema...st15321533

This would obv. be an expensive mouse and that seems out of your scope. Still most of my suggestions should still be applicable.

Edited by Conditioned at 03:45 CDT, 26 October 2011

<< Comment #20 @ 04:23 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #17

Pretty good ideas, it would cost a lot to make a mouse like that though. But a lot of the things in the list aren't too hard. Its just the interchangeable shells and the PCI-E card which would start getting expensive. From what I have learned from the factories, it'd cost about $16,000+ to make, without the PCI-E card. It would come with a couple of shells. Some things like the selectable mouse feet probably wouldn't be worth the hassle though. Also getting it to weigh 90g, when it will need all that plastic, would be really hard, unless you mean without the cord, then not so bad.

<< Comment #18 @ 04:02 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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u3a6

i think you should have an option for side buttons, because some people like it, some doesn't.
I think you need to have that marked as a custom service to the client, feed them with pre baked models that can be tweaked as such the customer desire.
Braided chord would give it a classy touch.
Shape looks great!

<< Comment #21 @ 04:42 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #18

If a mouse mold already has side buttons, its not hard to release two versions, one with side buttons, one without. Since this one doesn't have side buttons, its really hard to add them (pretty much have to mold new parts = $$$$)

I do have another sample which would be able to do that, but it needs a fair amount of tweaking. I was thinking of doing that if this one worked out well.

Braided cord. Hmm, I thought people didn't like them? I've seen some people where they've used the mouse bungie and its ripped the hell out of the braided cords Oo But I agree, it does look a lot classier, and not a problem to add it.

Edited by »bst at 04:43 CDT, 26 October 2011

<< Comment #23 @ 04:48 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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u3a6 - Reply to #21

humm, braided chords on mouse bungee, that could give some trouble, yes.

also i posted smth up there, but i think it stays better here:

- it would be better if mouse skates were perfect circles (and not stuff like wmo) WITH NO SHARP EDGES AND AT LEAST 0.8mm thick, max 1.2mm thick.

I agree with the statement about the sharp edges and thickness.
I think perfect circles would work best for an hard mouse pad.
Friction force only depends on the friction coefficient and the normal force to the contact. Small circular mouse feet wouldnt be good for soft mouse pads because, depending on the force you apply on the mouse, it could create a high contact pressure between the bodies, causing more deformation on the mouse pad surface, thus dissipating more energy and creating higher drag, also would shorten your mouse pad life. Something a little bigger than the wmo mousefeet would be my best bet. The secret lays on the mouse pad/mouse skatez mechanical properties, Elasticity Modulus and Poisson ratio.

EDIT: yes new molds = shit ton of €€€, it would be feasible by cutting the holes via milling operation, but that would have its costs too...

Edited by uuuaaaaaa at 04:53 CDT, 26 October 2011

<< Comment #24 @ 05:40 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #23

At the moment I'm just asking them to make the mouse feet 1mm thick, with rounded edges, it should be alright for this mouse.

The little guides which go around the feet are still part of the mold and changing the size of the feet (unless they get smaller) could be hard.

But thanks for the info about the mouse feet friction, I see what you mean. Its something I'll keep an eye out for.

<< Comment #26 @ 05:43 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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u3a6 - Reply to #24

Make sure the mouse feet are made of real PTFE, not some PP or ABS that they claim to be PTFE :P

<< Comment #27 @ 05:52 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #26

Yep :) Part of the spec list already:
5) 1mm thick PTFE mouse feet, with smooth/rounded edges

Heres the full list (I've deleted some confidential/unimportant things though):

1) Plug and Play (no drivers needed)
2) DPI select button, with colour LED on the mouse wheel to indicate DPI change - off / blue / red / purple
3) Omron D2F-01F main button switches
4) 500hz USB polling rate, possible to change USB rate with HIDUSBF if needed.
5) 1mm thick PTFE mouse feet, with smooth/rounded edges
6) 1.5mm - 2mm LOD, aim for 1.5mm [...]
7) Drift control / angle snapping turned off (or set to minimum) in the IC.
8) Transparent mouse wheel (for DPI LED) and black tinted transparent base
9) Top part of mouse shell painted with 'soft rubber feel' coating
[...]
11) USB plug painted a bright colour, so people know which port the mouse is plugged into (optional... not important)
12) Everything else except the IC = the same as the sample

With Avago ADNS-3090 IC and DPI steps: 400/800/1800/3500

<< Comment #39 @ 12:03 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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Anonymous (151.188.18.83) - Reply to #27

Here's just my opinion on it:

-If this mouse is going to be directed towards hardcore gamers then you shouldn't paint the USB plug a bright color as I'm sure they know where to put it and a bright color would look stupid in comparison to a black mouse
-Implementing side buttons would be a good idea but you should make sure to use Omron D2FC-f-7n switches
-Additionally regarding the side buttons, ambidextrous is a bad idea as a right handed user is probably never going to use the buttons on the right side or is even able to and vice versa for left handed users. About 10 percent of the population is left handed so I suppose you could make 10 percent of your mouses for left handed users. Additionally adding more buttons which will never be used will unnecessarily increase the weight.
-Having a DPI change button right next to the mouse wheel isn't a good idea at all imo since it could be accidentally hit easily. Additionally hardcore gamers aren't going to change their dpi/mouse hz after they've found values they're comfortable with. My suggestion is to do what the abyssus did and put 2 switches on the bottom to toggle between different dpi values and hz values. For the hz values you should have options for 125/500/1000 hz (or maybe even just 500 and 1000 if 1000 isn't stable).
-The colored scroll wheel indicating DPI is completely unnecessary imo since it would get annoying as illustrated by the annoyance of some Deathadder 3g users and it would be unneeded if dpi switches were put on the bottom of the mouse
-Make sure not to make the mouse feet too big as people with a high sensitivity won't have enough control, especially if they have a hardpad.
-#4 would be irrelevant if you had the hz switch on the bottom
-Make sure to use an optical mouse wheel encoder as ttc mechanical encoders are not nearly as accurate.
-Make sure that the rubber coating is of a high quality and a uni formal thickness over the mouse as you don't want what happens to the DA 3.5G BE to happen (rubber tends to come off after a couple months, or even sooner)
-Possibly use a texture similar to the Zowie EC1 over entired mouse instead of the rubber as apparently it works very well at preventing sweaty hands (which is the whole purpose of the design lol)

I hope I've been helpful :)

<< Comment #44 @ 12:36 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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Anonymous (82.120.162.151) - Reply to #39

i agree, try to be as simple as possible.

Also the best option to get the lightest mouse is to set CPI switch via firmware and then when saved, the CPI remains same = plug and play.

50g weight will be a challenge i think but this would be one of it's quality.

<< Comment #43 @ 12:36 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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Anonymous (82.120.162.151) - Reply to #39

also 1000hz all the way, no need 500hz switch.

<< Comment #115 @ 17:11 CDT, 1 November 2011 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #43

1000hz is overkill and results in unstable hz, while slowing your pc down and taking too much power out of a single usb port, no matter how good the pc is.
That matters a lot if you play in a laptop for example, which is what every tournament uses.

Actually, 500hz is unnecessary for most sensors but w/e. 125/500/1000 switch

Edited by -=AvengeR=- at 17:13 CDT, 1 November 2011

<< Comment #57 @ 04:25 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #39

1- Ok, I thought it might be a nice touch, doesn't really cost anything. Theres just been times when I've gone round the back of my pc and every single usb plug is black, and its hard to tell whats plugged in where. A lot of the mouse companies mold their own usb plug, but the next best thing is to make it another colour. But tbh unless its really cheap and easy to do, it won't happen anyway :)

2- Thanks for the part number!

3- Ok, thanks

4 - I agree with you but I'll have to ask how hard it is to make a hole in the bottom of the mouse. Tbh its probably not a big enough concern if it costs a lot. I know exactly what you mean though and it would be nice. I can get quite a stiff button for the DPI change, which would stop the DPI changing from a light tap. For the USB hz, I may go with what someone else mentioned, a small downloadable exe on our website which will allow the user to set their desired Hz in the firmware. Depending on how far it can be taken, there might also be an option to set the DPI and remap/disable the DPI button, and to disable the mouse wheel light.

5- See above

6- Ok, I think the feet on this mouse are ok. but yeah its something I'll keep in mind for any mouse.

7- Ok

8- Alright, I'll ask, but this mouse wheel is nice, I didn't want to mess it up.

9- Yeah, will be testing that.

10- Ok, from what I know, the zowie EC which is for sweaty hands is the white one, and its just glossy white plastic isn't it? Oo

<< Comment #64 @ 09:59 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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Anonymous (151.188.18.83) - Reply to #57

My apologies, my information was a bit off. The difference between the EC1 & the EC2 is their size and the difference in coating is dependent on the chosen color, in which the choices are black and white. The black coating is a rubbery finish which increases grip while the white finish has a "popular smooth coating which reduces sweaty palms". A good combination for surface materials would be to have smooth rubber on the side, just like the Deathadder, while the top of the mouse could be similar to the EC white's material.

<< Comment #114 @ 14:15 CDT, 30 October 2011 >>

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bemyslave - Reply to #57

Actually the part about accidentally hitting dpi button is bullshit.
A4tech mouses have that button and I have never in 2 years hit that. It just doesnt happen at all.

<< Comment #2262 @ 20:08 CDT, 7 June 2013 >>

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MaximilianKohler - Reply to #114

I agree. The logitech mice have their dpi buttons there too and they're fine.

<< Comment #839 @ 04:32 CST, 10 March 2012 >>

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QW_PLAYER - Reply to #39

I don't know where you take your ideas from, but D2FC-f-7n is I think the crapiest switch that you can buy. I did exchange them myself in Deathadder (after 5 months of regular 2 hour a day playing, multiclick phenomena LOL) and replaced with old buttons from old logitech (old model). When I looked into PDFs it occured that simply these buttons from old mouse are for higher current but with the same force needed to press them, with golden contacts inside.

<< Comment #840 @ 05:04 CST, 10 March 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #839

He wants to see how it fares since the Japanese omrons are very expensive.

<< Comment #843 @ 13:06 CST, 10 March 2012 >>

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QW_PLAYER - Reply to #840

he should use good buttons, 400 dpi sensor, ability to run 500 hz or best set is as deafult, smaller hausing (look at my tread about WMO in hama http://esreality.com/post/2235523/wmo-sensor-in-hama-housing/ ), side buttons that you can hide ( I would not use them, I use finger grip ). This way what he is doing mouse will be expensive. And no compromises , simple as possible, like WMO that was not intended to be gaming mouse.

Edited by QW_PLAYER at 15:14 CST, 10 March 2012

<< Comment #845 @ 16:22 CST, 10 March 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #843

When I say expensive I mean this: http://www.esreality.com/post/2219235/#pid2219235

<< Comment #117 @ 20:46 CDT, 1 November 2011 >>

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Corrupt^ - Reply to #27

Make the steps 450/900/1800/3500 if necessary. Rather have the first 2 like that then having issues like some manufacturers.

<< Comment #285 @ 21:20 CST, 2 January 2012 >>

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ia - Reply to #27

"Although its shape is ambidextrous, its mostly designed for right handed users due to the side buttons being on the left only. However, if you use it left handed, the side buttons shouldn't get in the way significantly."

Putting buttons only on the left side means the mouse is designed for right handers, and as a left handed user I'd probably not switch from the wmo or abyssus. Symmetrical placement on both sides is ok, no side buttons to hit accidentally is better. If you'd like left handed quake player to test the mouse, mail one to Amsterdam and I'm happy to oblige.

As a side note, it appears some reviewers of razer mice on amazon are unaware that adjusting sensitivity is possible without changing dpi.

Edited by ia at 21:24 CST, 2 January 2012

<< Comment #19 @ 04:21 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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InDepther

get real

<< Comment #22 @ 04:46 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #19

Whats the problem? I'm not doing this by myself, the brand will be part of a long established company which is well used to this kind of business.

<< Comment #29 @ 05:59 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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Xen_Crypt - Reply to #22

fatality? :p

<< Comment #36 @ 07:29 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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matuka - Reply to #29

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzhZwrF6J6M

<< Comment #68 @ 12:22 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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Jalle - Reply to #36

"It's holiday, It's holiday, It's holiday ..."

<< Comment #69 @ 13:05 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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matuka - Reply to #68

"Tawdy, Tawdy, Tawdy"...

<< Comment #28 @ 05:58 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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tourist

a cross between WMO, IE3.0 and razer. pretty awesome tbh. will never sell.

<< Comment #35 @ 07:28 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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matuka - Reply to #28

EVERYONE ON ESR IS INTERESTED, BUT IT WILL NEVER SELL?

<< Comment #38 @ 11:24 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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tourist - Reply to #35

it will sell if hit has: 1. shiny lights, 2. 6000000dpi laser, 3. big company marketing
afaict it has neither

<< Comment #30 @ 06:40 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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melechesh '

side buttons are e-fucking-ssential!

<< Comment #31 @ 06:57 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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hyper_

Personally I think side buttons aren't needed and they add weight, so 3 button is my preferance (use WMO)

Good luck if you are actually going to produce this. I'd buy one if it had no problems.

<< Comment #32 @ 07:13 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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vedic

Side buttons are only an issue in certain games that have a lot of actions, and in general browsing. I dodge the browsing bullet by using firegestures, but I generally switch mice based on which game I am going to play.

RTS gamers favor claw grip, which makes the center button mostly useless. There isn't really a need for more than 2 mouse buttons in SC/SC2 anyway. Most of the mice that try to market as gaming mice (for SC2 or WoW or such) are just gimmicks. =P

Edited by vedic at 07:32 CDT, 26 October 2011

<< Comment #33 @ 07:16 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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fishbone_

It seems nice !

From my point of view, here is the market for now (I took the most popular mice):
small hands & palm grip : WMO, Xai, kinzu, MX300/G1
small hands & claw : abyssus, salmosa, WMO, kinzu, MX300/G1
small hands & finger : WMO, Xai, kinzu...
medium hands & palm : MX518/G400
medium hands & claw : MX518/G400(?) (IO1.1 maybe, didn't test this one ?)
medium hands & finger : WMO, Xai, Kinzu...
big hands & palm grip : IE3.0, DA
big hands & claw grip : MX518/G400(?)
big hands & finger : WMO, Xai, kinzu...

From what I see, there is no mouse for medium/big and claw grip, mostly because the side of the mice (WMO, Xai, kinzu, abyssus...) are too small to put the ring/pinky or because there is prediction (MX518/G400).

<< Comment #1989 @ 02:22 CST, 20 February 2013 >>

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MaximilianKohler - Reply to #33

No, I have large hands(6'8") and use palm grip for FPS and claw/finger for RTS. The DA shape is bad for me. I currently use the 3.0 because the sensor is more accurate than the DA, but I have to tape stuff on it to be able to grip it:
http://s.sk-gaming.com/image/album/893533/db7770e734021a0c.jpg
http://s.sk-gaming.com/image/album/893533/9dcccdd6a9f21a0d.jpg

The 518/g400 shape is the best for me to palm grip but bad for RTS/claw/finger grip. Same with the IE 1.1 but the 1.1 has worse grip than the 518/g400.

Xai(and all other steelseries mice) gave me trouble for palm grip. Partly because the front of the mice is so low to the ground so there's no room for the ring finger there unless you have really small hands. The slight contour of the mouse on the right side also hindered grip and made my hand cramp.

I LOVED the rubber side grips of the first razer mice, ie: copperhead. They were good for palm grip & claw/finger grip. Just the laser was glitchy and very low malfunction speed.

Edited by MaximilianKohler at 23:16 CST, 20 February 2013

<< Comment #34 @ 07:26 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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matuka

Personally I find myself really putting pressure onto the left-hand side of my mouse with my thumb. I use a Wheel Mouse Optical so theres no buttons there that I can press. And I prefer doing this. I do this with my MX518 too since the buttons are above the thumb-grip. I'd prefer to keep it like this rather than have two big fuck off buttons there in place like the Deathadder (Mind you my thoughts on that may change sometime soon).

Edited by Matuka at 07:27 CDT, 26 October 2011

<< Comment #37 @ 07:33 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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wolf1e

I always miss the side buttons since i switched to abyssus

<< Comment #40 @ 12:12 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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Naghokez

Side buttons are a must-have for me.

<< Comment #42 @ 12:36 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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Anonymous (82.120.162.151) - Reply to #40

well it s not for CS or QL pros.

<< Comment #41 @ 12:25 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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faerie_

Not that I want to ruin it all, but if in the quake scene, the shit mice/200grams things with 12 leds and a 7853 dpi superdiatronical optilaser sensor are an oddity, the sc scene is a fucking mess full of retards who use züber high dpi shit mice, tweak their driver sens, tweak the windows sens and then tweak the ingame sens before going " oh fuck yeah, that 3000dpi mouse ( that is effectively working as a 717 dpi mouse after 2 passes of discarding inputs and a third one to multiply them by 3) is so much better and I don't need a lamp on my desk anymore, it's awesome "

If that would be your intended customer base, you're in deep trouble with such a "straight" design.

<< Comment #52 @ 03:01 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #41

I agree, thats why I have asked for a tinted transparent base and light on the scroll wheel. The base actually extends up the sides so it would look a little bit like the WMO which has the transparent sides. I think it will look quite classy.

Personally I don't care about lights as long as they don't blind me or reflect in the monitor. But most people will expect it to have something about it instead of just plain black, and theres only so much that can be done. So I'll work to keep the lights subdued but still 'pretty'.

<< Comment #45 @ 12:41 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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ins

rarely any sc2 player uses side buttons ( and those retarded mice with 50 side-buttons are forbidden in tourneys anyway )

i like that mouse, if i could change color i'd use it! :DD

<< Comment #2241 @ 16:16 CDT, 23 May 2013 >>

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Taric.A - Reply to #45

I use them on SC2 as a Zerg with my Deathadder 2013. They're perfect since I bind them as Control Group 9 and 10 for Hatcheries and Queen injects.

That way I can focus on 1-8 for combat units specifically. Here is my setup:

1 - Zergling Ultralisk
2 - Battle Queen/ Hydralisk
3 - Roach<> Corrupter/Mutalisk
4 - Mutalisk/Broodlord
5 - Infestor/Viper
6 - Baneling
7 - Swarm Host
8 - Overlord/Seer
Mouse Button 4,5 - Inject Queens, Hatcheries

So they have their uses :)

Edited by Tarik.Alobeid at 16:19 CDT, 23 May 2013

<< Comment #46 @ 17:39 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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Skylit

Sounds and looks great.

As for selling well, you really need the marketing and support behind a brand. I had the same idea as well as funding, but I choose to back out after realizing that a mouse like that would only really sell to those interest in sensor quality and performance. Brand recognition, lights, and shit tons of Dee pee eye seems to be the path of success in this day and age. Im not saying it's impossible, but you're going to really have to push your brand or start out with a pretty low price without even factoring in the warranty and what not.

Sensor wise, the 3090 is probably the most expensive optical sensor you can buy in bulk. While the actual tracking is solid, it doesn't seem to perform well (as far as max IPS goes) out of the box. (lower LOD seems to worsen the max performance)

I would recommend the much much cheaper and newer ADNS-3050, but I'm really unsure about the sensor itself as I've only tried Logitech's custom 3055. Tracking performance of the 3055 wasn't the best (Sensitive and jittery at higher CPI settings on most cloth pads), but it does have fairly good max IPS performance (130~). They had the scalable lift off set to where it's around 3mm on most surfaces. Hopefully the custom lens is to blame :P

Edited by Skylit at 17:46 CDT, 26 October 2011

<< Comment #47 @ 19:00 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #46

Not all is well in mouseland :(

<< Comment #53 @ 03:35 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #46

Thanks for the post.

I won't be buying 10,000 of these mice or anything like that at first, I don't intend to smash the market or anything, but just to offer a nice mouse to those who want it, and just to make sure when people do try it, it doesn't have any big problems which makes the brand look bad.

I haven't asked for a price on the 3050 sensor, but I did ask for the pixart 3305 (zowie mico sensor), which I know is a good price, and I can offer the 1600dpi version later which has a higher IPS capability. Personally I'd probably like the 3050, but it does need more dpi, like you say, not because it really needs it, but because people think they do. Sadly.

<< Comment #48 @ 19:24 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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By

megaman3

looks pretty good. My concerns are build quality, since it looks WMO-ish (very cheap plastic which retains sweat), and the target group.

There are plenty of tested gaming mice which have the same or similar characteristics that you posted, and after what happened with puretrack no one will risk trying a new product if the company is not razer, logitech or steelseries.
I mean, it's already very hard to technically top an abyssus, salmosa, logitech mini optical or a WMO, but it's almost impossible to achieve a better reputation than those.

I haven't searched the market like you most probably did, but my suggestion is that there isn't a single modern mouse made both for office use and gaming.
Here you have 2 options: a 2.0 IME, which at its release date (2000) had that "premium" look and feel for both uses, or a 2.0 WMO, dirty cheap but that coincidentally works for gaming due to its sensor, shape and weight.

In any case, the main target should be office use so it actually sells. Also it should be as simple as it gets, and it shouldn't cost more than $40/$20.

Nowadays if you want a nice mouse for work you'll end buying an expensive microsoft mouse, which continued that "premium" concept they introduced but wireless and with laser sensors, and for gaming an abyssus or other shiny and childish mouse.
That stereotype is not needed really. Actually a good selling point for gamers would be that it looks....adult, which is not the same as sober or plain black; especially for SC2.

now on topic, lol: if you go for the more expensive/premium office option it must have 5 buttons. If you prefer the cheap one, 3 buttons is fine.
And yes, focus on SC2 on the gaming aspect.

and if you want to just earn money, which you should like we all do, just sell $5 mice.

Edited by -=AvengeR=- at 20:14 CDT, 26 October 2011

<< Comment #54 @ 03:44 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #48

Nice idea, but the problem is most retail websites split their gaming mice and office/home mice into two different sections, which isn't a huge problem, but also I think (like you said) a lot of office/home users want wireless.

BTW build quality is good, its so simple I don't see it falling apart any time soon. The PCB will use high quality switches etc. As for sweaty or dry hands etc, the shape is naturally quite grippy anyway, so I don't think its going to be a huge problem.

This may be the other mouse which could be released later:
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8495/mb2yk.jpg

Its not ready yet (molds haven't been made), but it looks nice and is 5 buttons. It also looks quite 'adult' without looking boring, so I'm quite looking forward to seeing what its going to be like.

Edited by »bst at 03:56 CDT, 27 October 2011

<< Comment #49 @ 22:57 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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jstn

I've always thought it would be really great if a company were to make a totally modular gaming mouse. Something where you could buy the bottom piece (basically just a flat plastic sled with mouse feet on it (preferably clones of some other mouse's feet, so that it would be easy to find replacements)), and then have an option of a few different top shells, sensors, and switches. I guess you would have to be a hell of an engineer though to design something like that without it costing a fortune to manufacture or being very limited in choices.

As for side buttons, I don't care either way as long as they don't add significant weight and they are well-placed. I don't use them personally, but it doesn't factor into my buying decisions that much.

<< Comment #55 @ 03:48 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #49

Cool, its possible to do that ofc, but is more like something logitech would do, since IIRC they have their own factories etc. I suppose they kind of done it already with the G9(x). Also its hard to make it lightweight like that. So probably not going to happen any time soon, if at all, unfortunately.

<< Comment #50 @ 23:02 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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jstn

Also, if you go through with this: For the love of God, please don't put the screws underneath the mouse feet. I don't know why companies do that shit, but it drives me nuts. Every time I've taken apart a mouse I feel like I'm trying to be a fucking brain surgeon getting the feet off without ruining them and having to waste 10 bucks on a new set.

Plus they never feel right again once they've been pulled off.

Edited by jstn at 23:03 CDT, 26 October 2011

<< Comment #51 @ 23:57 CDT, 26 October 2011 >>

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faerie_ - Reply to #50

having to waste 10 bucks on a new set.

There's your answer.

Edited by faerie_ at 23:57 CDT, 26 October 2011

<< Comment #56 @ 03:52 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #50

First - This mouse only has one screw and its not under the mouse feet.

Second - I don't know why you would want to open this mouse, there won't be any weights inside it to remove, its already going to be light weight. I suppose you could cut the LEDs off or something if you didn't like them (they'll be set to 'off' for 400dpi though), but ofc it would void your warranty.

<< Comment #60 @ 07:30 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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horf - Reply to #56

I would want it heavier....

<< Comment #77 @ 15:02 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #60

you're special

<< Comment #79 @ 16:32 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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horf - Reply to #77

that's what all my math teachers said since middle school.

Edited by Rauvz at 16:33 CDT, 27 October 2011

<< Comment #61 @ 07:47 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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Anonymous (89.69.98.232)

My ideas (sorry for my english):
-mouse skates similar to those of xai but all 3 identical shape
-two cords in box, one braided and one not , could be easly changed but it means that you allow to open mouse without voiding warranty.
-dpi change like in zowie mico-hold 2main buttons and scroll up/down.
-2 switches underneath(similar to abyssyus) but to adjust force needed to press two main buttons.
-mouse can have symmetrical body and still have side buttons: make holes on both sides, sidebuttons pcb can be rotated 180* or taken out and give two seals to cover unused holes. This way mouse is for right handed, lefties and for people who dont want side buttons.

If you dont want to allow to open mouse without voiding warranty then give braided cord and side buttons on left side as default and people who whant to change it gonna need to fck the warranty, i dont care about it as most pros i think anyway.

<< Comment #58 @ 04:33 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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McFly

Personally, I absolutely need at least two side/thumb buttons.

Good luck with your project. Very interesting.

<< Comment #59 @ 04:50 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #58

Thanks :)

<< Comment #62 @ 08:06 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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Tobbe

Side-buttons for claw, yes

Placement:
Left side button:
3/4ths forward, to clear for a 45 degree (and 90 obviously) angled thumb grip. It's also good if a flat out thumb can JUST fit below it.

Right side button: Bear with me here.. (my own custom mouse solution is #1).

#1 Retract ring-finger to click.
High up and at 6/10th forward or middle, in the path of/mid-under ring-finger. It MUST be flush (or near no protrusion) against the upper mouse surface and placed just below a sharp-ish tipping point/ridge to the side (IE not so visible in topviews) so not to press it by accident (the pressure point being mostly in the fingertip helps out too). The lower side of the button can protrude more.
Also it's better (than my setup) if the button would be around 2+cm wide, to suit all ring-finger position styles.

or..

#2. Slide ring-finger back to click.
Simply low in the middle between ring and little finger (but this restricts the ring-fingers claw resting position to only the forward area.

[edit: clarified text]

Edited by Tobbe at 12:06 CDT, 27 October 2011

<< Comment #63 @ 09:25 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #62

You might like this design, then. I'm trying to negotiate a deal so I can get molds made, what do you guys think, is it too close to the WMO design?:

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/4049/bst1.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5101/bst1white.jpg

Edited by »bst at 10:19 CDT, 27 October 2011

<< Comment #65 @ 11:04 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #63

MAYBE they work fine but.. those buttons looks too much on the ROOF side. I would argue the best way to avoid unintentional clicks is with the buttons high, but still JUST below a "sharpish" bend/tipping point. IE not so much visible in a top view.

The mouse under-side edge MIGHT be too rounded also (causes accidental claw finger under mouse).
Also for clawing, narrowish back ends are good for pinky :P (not that it looked too bad, but any more bulge would be bad).

(edited/clarified last post)

Edited by Tobbe at 11:50 CDT, 27 October 2011

<< Comment #81 @ 16:51 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #65

Ok, Thanks!

The side buttons should be ok, the top down view might be a little wrong. I drew the buttons onto a WMO with a pencil, and erased it/re-drew it until it was nice. I suppose they're a bit like the IMO side buttons (with a bit more space underneath for the thumb).

The recess on the sides is 2.5mm in at its most, it tapers down from just under the side buttons, like this \_/, just to give it a bit more grip, so it doesn't go in really far.

Edited by »bst at 16:53 CDT, 27 October 2011

<< Comment #66 @ 11:47 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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rexob - Reply to #63

That looks great to me. Any guess as to when any of these will be available to buy?

<< Comment #67 @ 12:01 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #66

Not really sure, they can make them quite fast, but depends how the prototypes turn out. I want to get them out as soon as possible, but won't be doing a rush job on anything. If I go with the 3 button mouse its probably about 2 months, maybe 1 if I'm lucky. If I go with a custom mold then its going to be more like 3 months, or maybe longer. Thats just a guess so its not written in stone, might be faster, might be slower :)

<< Comment #80 @ 16:37 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #67

Close to WMO shape, ill buy it. Entirely new shape that has interesting design, ill buy it.

<< Comment #84 @ 02:26 CDT, 28 October 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #63

Is the second picture glossy white?

<< Comment #86 @ 05:17 CDT, 28 October 2011 >>

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tourist - Reply to #63

that looks much better flash wise, especially the white version. I'd definitely buy it.

<< Comment #156 @ 10:29 CST, 10 November 2011 >>

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Something - Reply to #63

This looks absolutely perfect.

The only concern I have with this type of shell is the activation of mouse1/2. I have had mice in the past with this top part of the shell being one piece, where you cannot actuate the switch where your finger naturally rests. The Xai/Kinzu for me are like that. The logitech mx series I think are much better designed in that regard.

So if you could place the mouse 1/2 microswitches further back, or take a look at how logitech have implemented the shell flex/microswitch arrangement, that would be cool for players like me that hold that mouse quite far back with a finger tip grip.

I hope this venture works out for you man :)

<< Comment #158 @ 10:56 CST, 10 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #156

I think it comes down to the central cut and how far back it goes, combined with how far the cavity underneath goes back as well. I'll definitely keep it in mind :) Cheers m8

<< Comment #70 @ 13:31 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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horf

more of a mx300 shape please + more weight.

<< Comment #87 @ 05:18 CDT, 28 October 2011 >>

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tourist - Reply to #70

more weight?

<< Comment #89 @ 07:58 CDT, 28 October 2011 >>

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horf - Reply to #87

115-145g , 50g is just way too light for my taste at least.

<< Comment #71 @ 13:40 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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rax-

Interesting.

I agree with Rauvz though mx300 shape and more weight!

<< Comment #76 @ 14:26 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #71

Can get one of these, they have more of an mx300 shape:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1698/xx1z.jpg
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/881/xx2gn.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8109/xx3s.jpg

Its going to be lightweight though :) You could fill it with blu-tak and coins, that would make it heavy with even weight ;)

<< Comment #72 @ 13:53 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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T1E

don't listen to rauvz, he's the only person ever who wants a 300g mouse

<< Comment #74 @ 14:02 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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faerie_ - Reply to #72

And I'm probably the only one who'd like a wmo sized ie3.0 ( if not a touch bigger )

<< Comment #78 @ 16:32 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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horf - Reply to #72

135g is enough at that size to be honest I tried to put some clay in my salmosa the other day and found my mouse 2 button heavily grounded even though I greased it 9 months ago.
was like FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.
was a good thing I found an ikari for 10~ euros weight is ok a touch heavier would be nice for the size but I don't like the shape.

I basically want a very small mouse but one that is heavy for it's size and the mx 300 shape seems near perfect, this in turn would allow me to do precise finger tip adjustments to mix with my wrist and arm movement.

also are everybody's hands wrists that weak I thought mine were quite weak.

and on another note: Steelseries's mousewheel mechanism feels epic.

Edited by Rauvz at 16:52 CDT, 27 October 2011

<< Comment #73 @ 14:01 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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Bullveyr

Good luck, you'll need it. :)

<< Comment #75 @ 14:20 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #73

What makes you say that? Not saying I think you're wrong, just curious.

<< Comment #83 @ 02:04 CDT, 28 October 2011 >>

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Bullveyr - Reply to #75

I know a little about this business, mainly because I know someone who does this for a living.

<< Comment #82 @ 17:05 CDT, 27 October 2011 >>

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cumrag

I prefer the wmo shape over the mx 300.

Well, the mx 300 shape isn't bad, but the buttons could be more like the wmo, not small.

Edited by comrade at 17:05 CDT, 27 October 2011

<< Comment #85 @ 05:10 CDT, 28 October 2011 >>

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Tobbe

Those shapes looks better.(#76)
With the smaller available vertical side space the buttons also needs to narrow vertically to around 3-4mm. (And again not protruding much at the buttons up-edge.. but drop or wedge like, in an under-hang).

Concerning fingertip-aim a smaller mouse is good, some mice butts your palm WAY too soon. I think I'm average in handsize (not boy hands) currently got length 120mm but think a few less (3-5) could be good. In height, flatter is better.. no more than 39mm.. (currently I got 36.5mm)

I'll stop now. X)

Edited by Tobbe at 05:41 CDT, 28 October 2011

<< Comment #88 @ 06:45 CDT, 28 October 2011 >>

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doped

ime3.0 shape like, 400dpi, good build quality, and i'll order one :)

<< Comment #90 @ 08:59 CDT, 28 October 2011 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #88

same. Just a bit smaller than IE3.0 tbh :)
Or a WMO but bigger, just to put my ring and little finger correctly.

Edited by fishbone_ at 09:01 CDT, 28 October 2011

<< Comment #91 @ 18:08 CDT, 29 October 2011 >>

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»bst

Update: I've got the prices back from the factory for the 3 button mouse, and theres 3 basic choices:

1) Avago 3090 sensor (CM Spawn / Valor sensor) = RRP: 30 GBP / 35 EUR / 48 USD
2) Avago 3050 sensor (similar to logitech G100) = RRP: 20 GBP / 23 EUR / 33 USD
3) Pixart 3305 sensor (Mico / Kova sensor) = RRP: 18 GBP / 21 EUR / 30 USD

They're just rough prices but pretty accurate. Theres room for shops to sell them a bit less if they want.

I think the Avago 3050 would be pretty good tbh, seeing as its a lot cheaper than the 3090 and can handle up to 160 IPS vs the 3090's maximum of 60 IPS. Its just the max DPI which is lacking, 2000 vs 3500.

I'm getting some more samples which have side buttons (still ambidextrous), the prices will be similar.

Heres some better concept pics of the 3 button mouse, the sensor LED would be infrared, so you can turn off all other leds for no light. I've been using the mouse for a few days now and find it very comfortable :>

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7096/3b1t.jpg
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7770/3b2.jpg

Edited by »bst at 18:14 CDT, 29 October 2011

<< Comment #92 @ 18:15 CDT, 29 October 2011 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #91

my money, take all of it!!!

e: for curiosity's sake.. what color are the leds? blue only?

Edited by rushhh at 18:17 CDT, 29 October 2011

<< Comment #94 @ 18:45 CDT, 29 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #92

hehe :D

My idea was the LED colour is dependant on the DPI, and the colour choices are:
500dpi = off / 1000dpi = blue / 1500dpi = red / 2000dpi = purple

Or in an exe file you can tell the firmware to turn them off completely. Maybe I can make it so you can choose what DPI = what colour as well, they can even do it so you can choose from about 25 colours but will have to see (I don't want it to get too complicated or expensive).

<< Comment #96 @ 18:53 CDT, 29 October 2011 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #94

that'd be sick if you could do it through drivers or firmware or something lol. /me suggests a white led option (not clear, but an actual white glow) if its possible and doesn't put shit out of the price range.

<< Comment #97 @ 19:18 CDT, 29 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #96

The plan is to have an exe file which has some options in it, so you can load that up, change settings on the mouse, and the mouse remembers them (instead of needing drivers).

On one of the samples theres a blue led and a red one, which mix together to make purple. On another sample where you can choose lots of colours, it has a single LED which has 4 prongs, (ground + RGB I guess). So yeah I will use the more advanced LED if possible, and then white should be no problem (I thought white would be cool as well :)).

<< Comment #101 @ 22:04 CDT, 29 October 2011 >>

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Anonymous (99.146.22.176) - Reply to #92

That looks pretty damn awesome. If i have one suggestion it would be about the button it looks too big, maybe something like the mx518 dpi buttons.

<< Comment #103 @ 23:26 CDT, 29 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #101

I probably drew it a bit bigger than it is, because I had to guess it, if you look at the photo in the original post, it shows the real size of the dpi button. Also it will be harder to push than the average button, so its not easy to press by accident. Changing the size of it is harder than it sounds unfortunately.

<< Comment #93 @ 18:25 CDT, 29 October 2011 >>

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matuka - Reply to #91

I'M THROWING MY MONEY AT THE SCREEN BUT IT'S NOT TAKING IT!!

16%

<< Comment #95 @ 18:46 CDT, 29 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #93

lol nice :D

<< Comment #98 @ 21:13 CDT, 29 October 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #91

What's the material on the sides made of?

<< Comment #99 @ 21:40 CDT, 29 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #98

Its just normal grainy plastic atm (but transparent and dark tinted), the mouse has a slight \_/ shape to it though so I don't notice any issues with grip.

I could get them to do the rubber coat the sides (like it is on the top), but the sides and bottom are one piece, so it would mean the base of the mouse is coated as well, so I don't think it would be very nice.

One of the samples I'm getting is sort of like an ambidextrous roccat kone, and has rubbery sides. It also has side buttons. If I can I'll do both mice eventually. Anyway heres a pic:
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2075/bstb.jpg

<< Comment #104 @ 23:33 CDT, 29 October 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #99

It looks like a very solid mouse, and will place on my wishlist if you can ship overseas :P

But the shape of the 5 button mouse, I'm alittle wary of. The shape is very similar to the puretrak valor, and some, including myself, find the shape abit uncomfortable. If your custom molded 5 button mouse is too expensive economically to manufacture, I understand, but don't let your dream die!

<< Comment #105 @ 00:00 CDT, 30 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #104

Cool, glad you like it.

With regard to shipping overseas, theres a few options:

1) You could order from the main website, it'd be around 15 AUD to Australia.

2) If you tell me a retailer you like I'll see if I can get them to stock some.

3) In some countries (where theres demand) we can send products direct from the factory to a pick and pack warehouse, which would send out orders from our website, so the postage would be cheap (though this wouldn't be available instantly and pretty much goes hand in hand with having at least one good retailer in that country).

As for the shape of the sample, I have another pic of it, I don't think its going to be much like the valor (for a start its ambidextrous), but its not always easy to tell from the pics, anyway heres the other pic:
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2046/bsta.jpg
I'm pretty pedantic about comfort so if its not nice I won't sell it. I'll give it a good test when I get it :)
Btw, what was it that makes the valor uncomfortable?

Edited by »bst at 00:14 CDT, 30 October 2011

<< Comment #106 @ 01:56 CDT, 30 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #104

Theres also this shape, which I think is nice. The only thing is, its also sold as a wireless mouse, so it has a hatch on the back where you can put batteries in (but its screwed shut from the inside on the wired version). Its alright though, it doesn't make it heavy and the sensor is still central. It weighs 75g without the cord and 100g with it. The grip and comfort on it is very nice, and the buttons are well placed.

My concept pictures are a bit crap atm - the side buttons are a bit wrong (they don't stick up like that), but should give a good idea of how it'd look:
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7313/xv1q.jpg
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2281/xv2q.jpg

Heres some photos of the actual sample I got:
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9016/1003784.jpg
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8461/1003785z.jpg
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4462/1003789v.jpg
(btw, size = LxWxH 120mm x 60mm x 37mm)

Edited by »bst at 02:05 CDT, 30 October 2011

<< Comment #107 @ 02:40 CDT, 30 October 2011 >>

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retire - Reply to #106

Personally I don't like that shape.

http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/7708/1003778y.jpg

This from the original post seems best. Could you show it next to a WMO, and a kinzu/abyssus or deathadder if possible?

This shape with no prediction, neg/positive accel and low LOD would be certainly worth buying.

edit: Oh and to make it perfect, put wmo-shape feet so that hyperglides can be used with it :)

Edited by vandra at 02:43 CDT, 30 October 2011

<< Comment #110 @ 05:17 CDT, 30 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #107

Sorry, I don't have a kinzu/aby/da but heres a pic with the measurements, and another next to the wmo and a diamondback:

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2396/1003781s.jpg
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/2153/s1003792.jpg
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/3562/s1003795.jpg
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/1756/s1003796.jpg

The feet are exactly the same size as the ms explorer 4.0, so you could use hyperglides for that, although, I might contact them and see if I can do a deal where I can buy a bunch and have them sent to the factory or something, so they're standard. if people want them.. not sure how easy that'll be but worth a try ;)

Edited by »bst at 05:21 CDT, 30 October 2011

<< Comment #1990 @ 02:23 CST, 20 February 2013 >>

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MaximilianKohler - Reply to #106

That rubber side grip looks like it would feel amazing.

The side button on the left looks like you would have to take your thumb off the mouse to hit it - which is bad thing. The one on the right seems like you could just squeeze down with your ring finger and hit it fine which is better.

<< Comment #100 @ 21:49 CDT, 29 October 2011 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #91

The 3050 has a 4000 CPI option according to the spec sheet, but I'm thinking it's just interpolation of the stated max of 2000 CPI. That isn't really a bad thing considering anyone silly enough to use 4k CPI is likely not to care about sensor quality or performance.

Native CPi settings inherit to the sensor are 250/500/750/1000/1250/1500/1750/2000 IIRC.

19x19 pixel array @ around 6700~ FPS

G100's 3055 is based off the 3050, but it's really unclear how this sensor performs unless a few of us get our hands on a real 3050 (aka CM Xornet). I have a feeling the G100 was rushed and the custom lens might not be helping.

I-rocks got their 3090 to perform up to around 150 IPS @ 1800 CPI. This means that the sensor has tons of potential, but unless you have engineers willing to tweak it, it might be one of the harder sensors to over come.

correction can be enabled or disabled.
30x30 pixel array @ 6468~ fps

The Pixart sensor is an iffy choice.

-It may have light amounts of correction, but those coming from WMO's might not be 100% comfortable with this sensor.

-Not really sure if it's inherit, but there seems to be a " jump bug" that the sensor exhibits under fast motion. while It wasn't that bad with medium sens, those with low sens might be fairly annoyed when they swipe and feel the sensor jump and move around 10 pixels to the right. It's a random bug~

If you want 3200 CPI, you're going to have to use a 1.0x lens.
Is that a problem? Kinda. Sensor will only perform up to 68 IPS.

You're limited to the 0.5x lens and 1600 CPI if you want 130 IPS tracking.

Light correction
32x32 pixel array @ 3600 FPS.

Edited by Skylit at 06:32 CDT, 30 October 2011

<< Comment #102 @ 23:15 CDT, 29 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #100

Thanks! Some interesting info there.

I saw the 4000dpi option when I looked at the 3050 datasheet, and thought the same thing. At the time I thought its probably not worth adding, as it might be terrible, but at the same time I can see people dismissing a good mouse just because its 'only' 2000dpi (btw I know I use the term DPI when it should be CPI, but I'm just used to it xD). Still thinking about it really. If I do it won't be misleading, it'll say "4000 DPI - interpolated". I suppose its possible that even though its interpolated, it could perform quite similar to a real 4000dpi mouse, because every time I've tried that level of dpi, it was always pretty crap anyway :D

I think I will leave the 3090 for now, unless people really want it, simply because I want to keep the price down and keep it simple. Its a fair bit extra to pay when all it really offers is an extra 1,500dpi, which in the real world isn't that useful. I suppose its something for later if the first mouse is a good enough success.

I thought the pixart sensor would be a 'good enough' alternative to the 3090, but now you've said that irocks got the 3090 up to 150ips, it seems not :) (and I didn't know about that jump bug). Given the 3050 comes out at such a similar price, I can't see much point in it anymore, except a cheap way to get 3200dpi. In the end I think the 3050 should be better in every other regard.

Thanks again for the info.

Edited by »bst at 23:18 CDT, 29 October 2011

<< Comment #108 @ 04:43 CDT, 30 October 2011 >>

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McFly - Reply to #91

AFAIK prediction cannot be disabled in the 3050?

Just saying.... 'cos many will not buy a mouse if it has prediction (even very little of it).

<< Comment #109 @ 04:46 CDT, 30 October 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #108

It can, says in the datasheet

Edit: hmm, just skimmed through it and can't see it, maybe I've missed it, or I read it somewhere else Oo

Where did you see that it can't be turned off?

Edited by »bst at 04:59 CDT, 30 October 2011

<< Comment #113 @ 10:51 CDT, 30 October 2011 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #108

I personally think all mice have some form of correction. Intelli/wmo users just want a sensor that feels similar to the ST MLT 04. :P

The 3050 is one of Avago's newer sensors, but I can't really claim that it's on the same level or degree since I've never used the official open source version.

Logitech's 3055 wasn't no MLT 04, but it was either slightly lower or rivaling the pixart.

@ bst.

Aside from the higher CPI, the 3090 can take larger pictures (30x30), process images well over 2x faster, and run at a comparable 6400+ FPS frame rate. I can't really tell you how that translates to actual feel of the sensor, but it's better on paper :D

The major problem the 3090 faces is that it defaults on 3500 and 1800 CPI. This means you would have to go through the hassle of trying to create solid lower steps while aiming for fairly decent tracking rates. Lift off distance might be a trade off at that point.

tl;dr Seems like too much of a hassle for a first mouse.

Edited by Skylit at 11:13 CDT, 30 October 2011

<< Comment #111 @ 06:27 CDT, 30 October 2011 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #91

Looking very nice. I'd be willing to test aka buy it :)

<< Comment #112 @ 06:36 CDT, 30 October 2011 >>

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lizahd

how can you get chassis for mice? :8

<< Comment #121 @ 12:33 CDT, 5 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #112

Mouse factory... ;D theres lots of them.

<< Comment #116 @ 19:55 CDT, 1 November 2011 >>

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uNhoLeee

wow.. looks like something i wouldnt even waste damaging my wall with.

<< Comment #120 @ 12:26 CDT, 5 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #116

Well, what do you like? Share with me and you might find something you always wanted in the final product, or a future one.

<< Comment #118 @ 11:18 CDT, 5 November 2011 >>

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genra

when around do you plan to bring it on the european market? lets say before June or later?

Edited by genra at 11:18 CDT, 5 November 2011

<< Comment #119 @ 12:23 CDT, 5 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #118

Pretty sure it'll be quite a way before june, depends what I do...
If I get a mouse out of the brochure it'll be way faster, just 2-3 months I reckon. If I go with a new mold it'll be slower, it'll take a couple of months to make the mold, then another 2-3 months to actually get the finished product (stock). So a new mold is more like march/april time.

I don't know what way I will go yet, but as soon as I know I'll post an update :)

<< Comment #122 @ 14:58 CDT, 5 November 2011 >>

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function9

I've been looking at this because of the shape: http://www.icon7.com/euen/ProductDetail_Z300.html
too bad it's got a "gaming-grade laser".

Edited by function9 at 14:58 CDT, 5 November 2011

<< Comment #123 @ 15:31 CDT, 5 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #122

I've got that mouse, made by V7 though, gigabyte had it too, not sure what factory makes it atm though.
You can try it pretty cheap:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/peripheral...11-7e.html (maybe you can get it pretty cheap in the US too)
The shape is pretty nice, but yeah, crappy sensor. It would be nice to palm but the front of the mouse where the tip of my ring finger goes is a bit annoying (it doesn't curve round smoothly, after a while it'd probably start to get annoying).

The design I'm doing atm is a bit like it, sort of like the WMO but without the flared rear (basically the rear of the WMO feels a bit slippery to me). The rear of the one you posted is nicer imo.

Edited by »bst at 15:33 CDT, 5 November 2011

<< Comment #124 @ 15:53 CDT, 5 November 2011 >>

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Bullveyr - Reply to #122

similar to the HP HDX Laser Mouse

<< Comment #125 @ 18:59 CDT, 5 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #124

Ah yeah, I remembered wrong, the HP one was the other one I saw, not Gigabyte :D

<< Comment #126 @ 19:09 CDT, 5 November 2011 >>

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matuka

Just to let you know my opinions.

Theres no other design than the one you have posted that I believe looks better than the Comment #92 one. I just love the design, it's got the side lights of a krait (which I have always taken into fancy), the ambidextrous look of what a MS IME 3.0 COULD look like, and the dark nice tan that looks superb. The curve seems almost perfect for a palm gripper compared to the other designs.

<< Comment #130 @ 18:40 CST, 6 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #126

When I palm grip it (so theres no gap between the back of the mouse and my palm), my fingers hang over the edge of the buttons by about 5mm, doesn't really bother me, but does that put you off?

<< Comment #134 @ 11:11 CST, 7 November 2011 >>

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matuka - Reply to #130

I usually have a gap between my palm and the curve, but for some people that do that, I suppose it's more comfortable than doing it with the wmo (least 1cm-2cm hanging off, mind you my fingers/thumbs are quite long).

Also now that I've actually tried that on my WMO, it feels a lot more comfier. :D

<< Comment #127 @ 21:59 CDT, 5 November 2011 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.47.48)

So what are you gonna do?

adding dpi switch button, blu LEDs, side buttons +, grip coating ?

You should stck with the major idea you had /

spiplicity
light
reliable

<< Comment #128 @ 00:24 CDT, 6 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #127

The original 3 button mouse I posted will never have side buttons, that would be on an entirely new mouse.

But yes it will have the DPI button (which you can disable or remap to browser back or forward (most likely)), LEDs which you can switch off, and grip coating.

Also, no drivers, just a small program which configures some basic things on the mouse mentioned above.

I know it leaves more room for error, but imo not a huge amount, and it doesn't really affect the price much at all, and it will still be light.

I've seen the grip coating on other samples and its good, I've put it through some tests and it holds up really well. But then again its not really a big deal to order some without that coating for people who prefer it.

<< Comment #129 @ 07:12 CST, 6 November 2011 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.47.48) - Reply to #128

ok, but in my opinion it s an error to add LED specialy with the market you are aiming for, same for DPI switch, no one will use it in a hurry during a fight. Drivers could do the switch and then save it, the mouse would then be set up driverless.

<< Comment #131 @ 18:43 CST, 6 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #129

Ok I can see what you're saying, and tbh agree, just don't see the harm in it as long as its not in the way (since some people would probably like the extra button bind). If its annoying when I get the sample I'll go with what you say :)

<< Comment #132 @ 22:23 CST, 6 November 2011 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.43.120) - Reply to #131

What kind of material did you planed to mould the mice with? Do you have choice in the range of exsisting plastics?

To achieve 40g or less you'll need some robust light and very thin plastic.

<< Comment #133 @ 23:04 CST, 6 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #132

I was going to go with the same material its made of at the moment, it seems fine, nice and strong, no sharp edges or creaking/rattling.

Its 50g at the moment without the cord, its bound to get a little bit heavier with a different PCB, but not by much. Its still going to be one of the lightest mice available.

I don't think theres much they can do to make the plastic thinner, as its determined by the mold.

<< Comment #135 @ 03:03 CST, 8 November 2011 >>

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»bst

Couple of new samples arrived yesterday, been giving them a test.

One of them is really nice imo, the shape is really great, like a more ergonomic wmo. I think its the best mouse sample I've had so far.

Heres some pics, I've edited a couple of them with photoshop, and some are original, theres some comparison shots with the WMO as well:

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/8203/bstmt1.jpg
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/5663/bstmt1orig.jpg
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/6506/bstmt2.jpg
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8294/bstmt3.jpg
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4342/bstmt4.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4435/bstmt5.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1530/bstmt6.jpg

More info:

- Weight is good at 70g without cable, it'll need an MCU so will go up a little bit, probably looking at 80g at the most.

- Quality is really nice without any weird stuff (like gripping the sides of some mice can cause the side buttons to click, this doesn't do anything like that).

- Mouse wheel feels nice, its a TTC one with 24 distinct detents, feels like the ALPs one (or better even) so probably won't change it.

- The side buttons are in a really nice place which give enough room for my thumb, without being too far away or awkward to reach. Its easy to press the one I want.

- It has a symmetrical shape, and the thumb recess feels really nice on both sides, feels totally natural. Its also really nice because the thumb recess gives a little ledge which my little finger (pinky) sits on, so it doesn't drag on the mouse mat. Its easily one of the most, if not the most comfortable mouse I've ever held.

- I played a couple of ffa games on QL and it performed really well imo. Even though its using the budget sensor, I still got 44% lg and 58% rg. Ok - it was against scrubs - but I've only played 5 games in the last 3 weeks and its my first time with this mouse. So I think it done well, the shape certainly didn't hold me back, actually it felt really stable and easy to hit precise shots. Its pretty much my favourite mouse shape ever.

So with that in mind, unless over the next week or so it gets annoying in some way (can't see it happening), I'm probably gonna go with this mouse. I think I'm on the same 'page' as most people here, from the comments I've read, so I think most people are going to like it.

Later I'll do more shapes ofc, but I think this is the best one to start with, I think it appeals to more people than the 3 button mouse - its the safer choice.

Of course it'll have FULL omonomonom (omron ;/) switches, the gold plated ones D2F-01F. Mouse wheel might not tho because they're a bit easy to click.

Anyway thanks for reading all that, just didnt want to leave anything out. Any questions/comments feel free... :)

Edited by »bst at 06:15 CST, 10 November 2011

<< Comment #136 @ 11:14 CST, 8 November 2011 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.105.4) - Reply to #135

damn too heavy :(/

indeed at first shape looks wierd but side by side picture show the size is liek the wmo so, have to test it.

<< Comment #141 @ 23:52 CST, 8 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #136

I think its more comfortable than a WMO, for me anyway. It has more grip and because of that it feels much lighter than 70g, picking it up is like picking up almost nothing. The main thing is, compared to the wmo it feels a lot nicer at the back and on the side where the pinky goes.

Theres no reason I can't get the other model as well, but later (or maybe if I can, at the same time). It'll probably have the same sensor and everything else, so won't take long to do.

<< Comment #137 @ 12:23 CST, 8 November 2011 >>

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matuka - Reply to #135

I'm really liking it so far actually, sounds like quite a nice mouse. Also just for specifics, what sensor is it using?

<< Comment #140 @ 23:37 CST, 8 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #137

It'll use the 3050 sensor, with prediction off etc. The sample has a pixart sensor, can't remember which but its not a good one :)

The sensor hole is pretty good on this, LOD is the same as a WMO, so shouldnt have to mess around with the sensor lens or anything.

<< Comment #138 @ 13:04 CST, 8 November 2011 >>

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WTFProoF?! - Reply to #135

Me does not aprove the shape, it's too strange for me. Use first sample or the one you used in #63 (as long as it is not too expensive however I would be ready to pay up to 60€ for a good mouse).

<< Comment #142 @ 00:12 CST, 9 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #138

see http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2179287#pid2179287

But yeah the only part which some people might not like is the flared base, but depends how you hold it. If you try and hold it at the base where its wide, then its not so good (but tbh some people might still like it). But if you grip it in the recesses above it, its fine. Its not like the roccat kova where you can really feel the back where it flares out, it feels a lot more natural, but the photos sort of make it look like it sticks out further than it really does.

I suppose its a bit like this mouse:
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/_base_v1//p...etails.jpg
But with a smooth recess on both sides.

<< Comment #146 @ 13:11 CST, 9 November 2011 >>

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WTFProoF?! - Reply to #142

Popular mouse #1

Popular mouse #2

Popular mouse #3

Your Sample

You get the difference? It doesn't look good and does not have the simple slim and comfortable form the other have. This one does have a simple slim and comfortable form and it doesn't look ugly like the one above.

Edited by WTFProoF?! at 13:12 CST, 9 November 2011

<< Comment #148 @ 22:36 CST, 9 November 2011 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.43.132) - Reply to #146

so true :l

<< Comment #149 @ 01:34 CST, 10 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #146

I think its just the photos, I have all those mice here (nearly 30 different ones in total) and this one is one of the most comfortable for me. Funnily enough, the WMO and IMO shapes feel awkward by comparison, not the other way round. I'm not trying to argue it or anything, just saying that photos can be very deceptive, and different people appreciate different things.

Actually I think the WMO and IMO mice are most popular due to their price and sensor. Not that the shapes are bad at all, but that they are good enough to allow gamers to use a mouse which has a cheap cost and good sensor performance. The biggest issue I have with the IMO and WMO is the grip, they feel like they're going to fall out of my hand at times, especially after a few games when my hand starts to get a bit sweaty. So instead of just copying those designs, I want to try to improve upon them.

I actually have a design which is an evolution of the mouse I posted in #63 (http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2173880#pid2173880). But given its a brand new design I can't really post it yet. I also have some new ergonomic designs which are completely new to the gaming scene, but again they are brand new and no one else has done it yet, so I can only reveal them when (or, if) things have moved on a lot more.

I've bought loads of mice I thought would be comfortable, only to find theres something about them which was impossible to see in the photos that ruins them. After that, it really is clear to me that its very difficult to know how a mouse is going to feel just from looking at it. Even a couple of mm here and there, a gradient, an edge where the plastic joins, which can be almost invisible in photos, can make or break a mouse.

Anyway, having said that, I think both mice (#137 & #92) are really good. They're not the same thing, so I'll try and get both - its just a question of money and negotiation. They'll basically both be the same mouse inside, but different shapes for different people. I think its kind of cool to start with 2 mice anyway, and since they're so similar, 99% of the things on one of them can just be transferred to the other. So right now I am going to ask for prototypes of both mice with all the final changes, if they're good then will really try to get both :)

<< Comment #150 @ 02:08 CST, 10 November 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #149

I personally think 92 looks very very good. I don't mind if it has lights or decorative aesthetics (I acknowledge that sells well), as long as you don't compromise the hardcore features.

Edited by end0rphine at 02:10 CST, 10 November 2011

<< Comment #139 @ 15:44 CST, 8 November 2011 >>

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horf - Reply to #135

100gm PLEASE PLEASE I BEG OF YOU!

I'LL PUT CLAY AND METAL IN AFTER TOO!

<< Comment #143 @ 00:15 CST, 9 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #139

lol :D
Sorry mate you're the minority I think :(

The only thing I can do is, if at some point I do the custom mold, then I will try to get a weight system in it which doesn't mess up the weight distribution and doesn't add too much weight to the mouse when its not used.

<< Comment #144 @ 01:29 CST, 9 November 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #143

Put weights in and Rauvz dies. Do you want that on your conscience? :D

<< Comment #145 @ 02:59 CST, 9 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #144

I think I have a pretty good idea how to do it without pissing people off who don't want it though ;D

<< Comment #147 @ 21:20 CST, 9 November 2011 >>

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horf - Reply to #144

?
I WOULD LOVE WEIGHTS, LOVE THEM I TELL YOU!!

EDIT: I finally got it, you were threatening to kill me ......

Edited by Rauvz at 22:59 CST, 9 November 2011

<< Comment #151 @ 05:25 CST, 10 November 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #147

I lol'ed

Dont take it personally, but I must use you as leverage :D

<< Comment #153 @ 07:48 CST, 10 November 2011 >>

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horf - Reply to #151

:D

<< Comment #189 @ 04:29 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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tourist - Reply to #135

that's mx310 shell nigger stay away from that shit as far as you can

<< Comment #1988 @ 02:22 CST, 20 February 2013 >>

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MaximilianKohler - Reply to #135

That shape looks really nice. Seems like it would be fine/good for both claw grip and palm grip.

<< Comment #152 @ 06:12 CST, 10 November 2011 >>

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»bst

TBH I am having second thoughts about the 3 button mouse again... purely because I think the middle bit is too thin, at 50mm. I still like it, but I see it as pretty risky. I had some other people try it and they said the same thing. I just think its something for later, when I can take more risks.

Going to go with this instead:
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4558/tg5b1.jpg

Its only 5 grams heavier than the 3 button mouse, and I think the shape is nicer, its a straighter shape, more like a cross between the diamondback and wmo.

Along with the one above #137 - I've got a few people to try the mice now, and everyone said its their favourite shape.

I'm ordering the prototypes today. I don't want people to think I haven't listened, because I have, they're going to be really nice mice because of this thread and everyone's help and comments. But in the end I'm the only one who has the mice in front of me, so I'm the only one who really knows how they feel when they're held. I don't want to release that 3 button mouse based on peoples opinions of a photo, I feel that if I done that, I'd be almost tricking people into buying it, and then saying "well its your fault you thought it looked nice" if it doesn't live up to people's expectations. Hope everyone understands.

Edited by »bst at 06:14 CST, 10 November 2011

<< Comment #154 @ 10:13 CST, 10 November 2011 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.43.132) - Reply to #152

looks like my thumb is gonna go directly on thoose side buttons :s

<< Comment #155 @ 10:16 CST, 10 November 2011 >>

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Derp - Reply to #154

You should probably ask your doctor to take a look at that enormous thumb of yours.

<< Comment #159 @ 13:31 CST, 10 November 2011 >>

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genra - Reply to #155

its just about the style you hold a mouse. me too, my thumb is usually exactly where those buttons are.

i wish someone would exactly copy the wmo in shape, size, weight and material and just put a different sensor and switches in it. you cant have it perfect, but with the wmo shape i know what i have got.

Edited by genra at 13:35 CST, 10 November 2011

<< Comment #161 @ 13:56 CST, 10 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #159

Oh, ok. Its probably not a big deal for them to remove the buttons, and its fine by me since the other one has side buttons.

So I will ask, and it will be a lot like a wmo then.

<< Comment #163 @ 14:32 CST, 10 November 2011 >>

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genra - Reply to #161

Deo volente
Thank you Sir

Edited by genra at 14:34 CST, 10 November 2011

<< Comment #165 @ 09:23 CST, 11 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #163

Sorry, found out it can't be done :/
The side buttons aren't very uncomfortable though, so i have a couple of ideas if you really don't like the side buttons:
1) if you open the mouse and put super glue on the switches, they'll stay rigid
2) the side button and dpi switches are on a separate little pcb which you can unplug, if you remove it then the side buttons won't click

Pic of insides:
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5829/pb110017m.jpg

Edited by »bst at 10:04 CST, 11 November 2011

<< Comment #167 @ 11:22 CST, 11 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #165

Btw, I posted this before but maybe people didn't see it, its like the 1st 3 button mouse I posted but with straighter sides and no dpi button (you'd have to use a program to set the dpi in the mouse's memory):
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4610/xx2go.jpg

<< Comment #157 @ 10:48 CST, 10 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #154

Theres just over 2cm of space underneath them.

<< Comment #160 @ 13:36 CST, 10 November 2011 >>

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winz - Reply to #152

Are you saying the one at #92 isn't going to happen? :<

I dunno about others but that looked the most promising to me. Simple, efficient, that's what I'm looking for.

<< Comment #162 @ 14:12 CST, 10 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #160

See http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2180019#pid2180019

I just sent the email so I should know in the morning.

Theres barely any difference in the simplicity of it, and its pretty much the same weight (can't tell any difference when I pick them up).

But no I don't mean it won't ever happen, I'll get some eventually, reason being that it will be a very nice mouse for people with smaller hands, so its going to be in the lineup at some point.

<< Comment #164 @ 00:24 CST, 11 November 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #152

Can you show us more angled shots of it? It looks great tbh. Finally someone who knows what a good shape is.

Edited by end0rphine at 00:28 CST, 11 November 2011

<< Comment #166 @ 10:04 CST, 11 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #164

Here you go, bear in mind its the raw sample :)
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9249/pb110011yh.jpg
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/3554/pb110015c.jpg
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8246/pb110019.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2287/pb110020.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7806/pb110022l.jpg
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/1079/pb110023.jpg

Pic of the base (the white squares are just 1mm teflon so I know how it feels):
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/272/pb110028.jpg

Edited by »bst at 19:05 CST, 7 December 2011

<< Comment #170 @ 15:59 CST, 11 November 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #166

Finally remembered, looks similar to a logitech g1 :D

<< Comment #168 @ 12:17 CST, 11 November 2011 >>

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team pacquiao

i think side buttons are useless if your a hardcore fps gamer.

Perfect Mouse imo:
optical sensor - no prediction - low lod - good perfect control/malfunction speeds.
500hz polling (no point in 125 and 1000.)
Driverless setup
weight 60-80 grams
cord similar to ime 3.0
take inspiration from already popular shapes (3.0, wmo, deathadder)
omrom switches and good buildy quality/materials.
400-800-1800 steps or something similar.
good mouse feet.

as for mousepads the most popular is Qck heavy and Puretrak talent

<< Comment #169 @ 13:57 CST, 11 November 2011 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #168

cord similar to ime 3.0

Are you mad ? IE3.0 cord is too thick imo. DA's one is ok

<< Comment #171 @ 17:35 CST, 11 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #168

Agree with everything, except:

- 1000hz is the default, you can set it to 125/250/500/1000

- Its driverless in the sense that the mouse has on-board memory, so once you choose your settings you can take it to other PCs and it remembers them (and you don't need the drivers ever again). It has button assignment/macros/full RGB & brightness led control etc, all stored on the mouse.

- I found a cord which is non-rigid, its really cool, never seen one like it before, I've had it coiled up for a couple of weeks and when I uncoil it, I can straighten it out and it just flops down instead of retaining the coiled shape and sticking up in the air, bashing things, and all that annoying shit. So basically it won't be like the IME 3.0 cord.

- DPI on the first 2 mice will be 250 / 500 / 750 / 1000 / 1500 / 1750 / 2000. These are default DPI choices of the avago 3050 sensor (its best to stick to them). However if you want you can also fine tune the sens of the mouse in much smaller steps, but its calculated.

<< Comment #859 @ 17:02 CDT, 13 March 2012 >>

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c1 - Reply to #168

I have ie 3.0 and a DA. Deathadder shape is just uncomfortable for long playing periods while IE 3.0 is the most comfortable mouse I've used. Nethertheless I prefer wmo because of finger grip.

<< Comment #172 @ 18:49 CST, 11 November 2011 >>

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»bst

Some more pics:
This is the cord I found, you can see how it sits flat and doesn't keep the packaging coil:

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8445/bstcord01.jpg
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9971/bstcord02.jpg

This is an updated pic of one of the mice, LEDs can be turned off or reduced in brightness (also you can set to any colour including white):
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/2075/bstb.jpg

Edited by »bst at 18:52 CST, 11 November 2011

<< Comment #173 @ 18:59 CST, 11 November 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #172

Anyone else think the raw transparent blue plastic on the base actually looks cool?

Edited by end0rphine at 05:51 CST, 12 November 2011

<< Comment #176 @ 11:25 CST, 15 November 2011 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.43.132) - Reply to #173

you care about the coolness? ok ...

<< Comment #178 @ 16:09 CST, 15 November 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #176

Two of the same mice, everything the same except for the appearance, ceteris paribus. You prefer the appearance of one over the other. Which are you going to pick?

<< Comment #177 @ 11:59 CST, 15 November 2011 >>

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matuka - Reply to #173

Looks pretty nice.

<< Comment #174 @ 19:38 CST, 14 November 2011 >>

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winz

Please, keep us updated on when it's gonna be on the market! :)

<< Comment #175 @ 07:35 CST, 15 November 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #174

As soon as I know I will :)

<< Comment #179 @ 04:27 CST, 1 December 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #175

You are my last hope bst now that the zowie am is pretty bad (so far).

<< Comment #180 @ 06:49 CST, 1 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #179

Ok ;)
I just paid the R&D cost for the mx300/g1 style mouse, just going with that atm. So its definitely happening now.

<< Comment #183 @ 08:18 CST, 1 December 2011 >>

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w1sh~ - Reply to #179

Zowie AM "pretty bad so far", where are you getting this information from?

<< Comment #184 @ 09:11 CST, 1 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #183

Think hes referring to this:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1177120/zowie-am-g...y-a-review

<< Comment #181 @ 06:56 CST, 1 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.187.214) - Reply to #175

just make a wmo with a good sensor ffs = $$$

=)

<< Comment #182 @ 07:00 CST, 1 December 2011 >>

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horf - Reply to #181

no

<< Comment #194 @ 13:00 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #181

The one I'm doing isn't thaaat different to a wmo, especially if I do a version without side buttons as well. I have the mouse next to a wmo atm and I put my hand on one, then the other, the height and curve etc feels really similar.

<< Comment #201 @ 18:02 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.46.35) - Reply to #194

ye i ve seen the picture, it looks definitly good, but for the sides buttons maybe you could put one on each side instead of two in the same side. Just saying even if i don t care about side buttons.

But as i said already, CPI switch button + side buttons will surely make it heavier.

Also imo dont waste too much energy trying to find a good grip material, people will end up puting some grip stuff on it anyway since the translucid plastic is very glidy like on the wmo.

Sounds good so far, keep it real.

<< Comment #204 @ 18:11 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #201

60g too heavy for you?

<< Comment #205 @ 20:19 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #201

I would personally like to put buttons on the other side, but would mean remolding the whole mouse shell, or if I'm clever, just the top and a few other little bits. Tbh its not really worth it, I think I'd be better off just making a 100% new design later.

The first mouse isn't really meant to be the pinnacle of the brand, its the entry level model, but I think its good enough to compete in the current market at mid-ish level. Its just meant to be a solid mouse which does what it says on the box. Some people may love it, some may not, but I think I've done the best I can, hopefully 'enough' people will like it so the brand can step up a gear and release more mice.

I have to ask myself, how many people will love feature X, and how many people will it annoy? I have to go with the least annoying things (and letting go of some of my own personal desires). In all honesty I'd probably be better off sticking a crappy 6000dpi sensor in there, but as a quake player for nearly 15 years, it wouldn't be, as you say, keeping it real.

BTW the side buttons and dpi buttons don't add much to the weight really, probably around 5 grams.

<< Comment #185 @ 13:27 CST, 1 December 2011 >>

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w1sh~

Yeah just seen the thread myself. Had high hopes for the AM :(
You seem to be going down the right route though, good luck with it, I'm sure you will get a lot of sales if it does everything that you said :D

<< Comment #187 @ 22:03 CST, 1 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (68.63.48.193)

I hope this turns out good.. I have been looking for a mouse to replace my long used WMO, but would like a slightly higher DPI with a better sensor (this mouse is amazing, but you can feel the slight negative acceleration even with 1000hz polling)

I was planning on the Zowie AM but I am not so excited after the first review came in, and that doesn't even have much about the actual tracking of the sensor/lens and I do not like how the DPI choices are odd due to the custom lens.

Here is what I feel is the perfect mouse:

Sensor:
No positive/negative acceleration
No prediction/correction
Switchable DPI with common DPI settings
Switchable polling without having to hack USB

Button: Make sure the design won't have them double clicking when they get dust/dirt in them or have a lot of play/slack in the buttons after the mouse has been used for a while (all my previous Razer mice had this problem). Not too much pressure, not too light. If going with more than 3 buttons, the extra buttons have to be in almost perfect places which is hard because everybody will grip a mouse slightly different. So maybe a 3 button mouse to start with will be better than having a 5 button which people hate the side buttons on.

Wheel: Not too hard to spin, not too easy, same goes with pressing the wheel down, make sure there is not a lot of play in the wheel or after the mouse ages the wheel doesn't get sloppy like on the WMO.

Shape: WMO, Xai, Zowie AM (good shape, nothing fancy, Abyssus feels a bit weird, but still a decent shape)

Weight: I feel 75-85g without a cord is a great weight, if yours ends up at 50-60, i can always glue in some weights or something if I feel the mouse is too light for my taste

Feet: Good feet with a common shape so they can be easily replaced if needed. Don't cover any screw holes, etc with the mouse feet. Not too big, not too small (the Abyssus would constantly dig into my old thick QCK if i put just the slightest pressure on it due to the feet being so small)

Texture: Be careful with any paint/rubber coatings. Most of these mice peel in no time. Tons of people have really acidic sweat, etc and after no time the coatings can start to peel off or fade. I think a slight texture plastic like on WMO, etc is perfect. It just seems better than any of the rubber coatings/glossy sides.

Software:
Love your idea of a simple way to flash the memory on the mouse so you can customize it and never have to again, simple mouse wheel colors, etc are very nice if done correctly. Have the option to disable the led on any DPI setting. Also the choice of any of the available colors on any DPI as well. (somebody might not want to be forced to have a red LED due to them wanting to a certain DPI)

Price:
The cheaper the better as long as you are not sacrificing quality. $40-60 seems a good price, I bought a lot of WMO for $8 shipped, i just won't spend $100 on a mouse

Just figured I would chime in with any experiences i have with mice. I have used a lot over the years. I have played countless hours of games/FPS and a very aim heavy player with average of 42-45% LG and 55-65% rail in QL against good players.

Please let me know as soon as I can paypal you money to preorder one of these mice. I would also love to have some tracking test to verify that the sensor performs well in your shell, etc.

<< Comment #186 @ 21:36 CST, 1 December 2011 >>

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s7e

I hope this turns out good.. I have been looking for a mouse to replace my long used WMO, but would like a slightly higher DPI with a better sensor (this mouse is amazing, but you can feel the slight negative acceleration even with 1000hz polling)

I was planning on the Zowie AM but I am not so excited after the first review came in, and that doesn't even have much about the actual tracking of the sensor/lens and I do not like how the DPI choices are odd due to the custom lens.

Here is what I feel is the perfect mouse:

Sensor:
No positive/negative acceleration
No prediction/correction
Switchable DPI with common DPI settings
Switchable polling without having to hack USB

-extra:
Please make sure there are no problems with the sensor, high lift-off, jitter, etc. There are great sensors but some have known problems. Better tracking on one axis compared to the other, etc. Deathadder (Avago ADNS-S3888/Avago ADNS-S3668) sensors are amazing, but the early production Abyssus had major jitter problems without a way to flash the firmware. These small things can simply make a mouse unusable. The lower the lift-off the better. I don't think i know anybody that tracks without having the mouse on the pad. 1-2mm seems ideal.

Buttons:
Make sure the design won't have them double clicking when they get dust/dirt in them or have a lot of play/slack in the buttons after the mouse has been used for a while (all my previous Razer mice had this problem). Not too much pressure, not too light. If going with more than 3 buttons, the extra buttons have to be in almost perfect places which is hard because everybody will grip a mouse slightly different. So maybe a 3 button mouse to start with will be better than having a 5 button which people hate the side buttons on.

Wheel:
Not too hard to spin, not too easy, same goes with pressing the wheel down, make sure there is not a lot of play in the wheel or after the mouse ages the wheel doesn't get sloppy like on the WMO.

Shape:
WMO, Xai, Zowie AM (good shape, nothing fancy, Abyssus feels a bit weird, but still a decent shape) Look how many total people use that basic shape together, add up every Kinzu, WMO, Sensei, etc users and no other shape probably comes close when it comes to asymmetrical (with the other being mx518/Deathadder non-asymmetrical shape). Adding extra buttons basically changes the shape, that is why so many 5 button symmetrical mice have a lot of complaints about the placement of the extra buttons and bumping them by mistake or not even being able to reach them easily. Be very careful if you start with 5 buttons (which i would love if the shape is nice, maybe the xai/sensei), but for this reason maybe your first mouse should have 3 buttons.

Weight:
I feel 75-85g without a cord is a great weight, if yours ends up at 50-60, i can always glue in some weights or something if I feel the mouse is too light for my taste

Feet:
Good feet with a common shape so they can be easily replaced if needed. Don't cover any screw holes, etc with the mouse feet. Not too big, not too small (the Abyssus would constantly dig into my old thick QCK if i put just the slightest pressure on it due to the feet being so small)

Texture:
Be careful with any paint/rubber coatings. Most of these mice peel in no time. Tons of people have really acidic sweat, etc and after no time the coatings can start to peel off or fade. I think a slight texture plastic like on WMO, etc is perfect. It just seems better than any of the rubber coatings/glossy sides.

Software:
Love your idea of a simple way to flash the memory on the mouse so you can customize it and never have to again, simple mouse wheel colors, etc are very nice if done correctly. Have the option to disable the led on any DPI setting. Also the choice of any of the available colors on any DPI as well. (somebody might not want to be forced to have a red LED due to them wanting to use a certain DPI)

Price:
The cheaper the better as long as you are not sacrificing quality. $40-60 seems a good price, I bought a lot of WMO for $8 shipped, i just won't spend $100 on a mouse

Just figured I would chime in with any experiences i have with mice. I have used a lot over the years. I have played countless hours of games/FPS and a very aim heavy player with average of 42-45% LG and 55-65% rail in QL against good players.

Please let me know as soon as I can paypal you money to preorder one of these mice. I would also love to have some tracking test to verify that the sensor performs well in your shell, etc.

Edited by s7e at 22:07 CST, 1 December 2011

<< Comment #190 @ 09:38 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #186

Thanks for your comments! I agree with pretty much everything, just to clarify some things:

Shape: It feels a little bit smaller than the WMO at the back (because it doesnt flare out), and the front is a bit lower, but overall its pretty similar (the width is the same if you exclude the flared back of the WMO). Its mostly like the G1/mx300 shape. Also it has a subtle \_/ kind of shape on the sides which gives a lot of natural grip.

Buttons: All the buttons except the DPI button use Omron D2F-01F which should be good, high quality and nice feeling. You can get them in 2 versions, so I'm trying the light ones first and if they're too light I'll try the heavier ones.
As for side buttons, I think they're ok, but I have designed a part which can be molded to remove them, so I might do both with and without.

Wheel: I've ordered the TTC 24 detent, it feels the same as the ALPs one, which afaik is on the deathadder and Kova+. Part of the R&D is testing the mouse wheel with a special machine which simulates years of use, so I will ask for one of the samples I get to be simulated a few years old, to see how it holds up. However theres not a great deal of choice, and I think I got the best one available.

Weight: Final weight is going to be approx 70g or maybe a bit more, I can't say for sure yet, but should be around that number. I really doubt it will be more than 85g.

Feet: They are MS explorer 4.0 shape, 1mm height with smooth rounded edges, 100% teflon, with no screws underneath. I'll also try and get extra feet packaged with it.

Texture: The sides and base of the mouse are the same as the WMO (grainy plastic), but the top is the rubber coating. I can't get the grainy top atm. The best I can do is release another version with a glossy top, maybe later or at the same time as the rubber one. But yeah, afaik the main area where the rubber coating is a problem is usually the sides, so hopefully won't be too many issues with the rubber top.

Software: Basically the LED light and DPI change aren't linked at all. You simply choose whatever colour/brightness/pulse or turn the LEDs off in the software. This is already done on another sample I have, it works nice. Also it will have an infra red sensor LED, so when you turn off the lights, there will be no visible light coming from the mouse.

Tracking: The factory has special machines which can test the tracking speed, along with a load of other strange looking machines which test all sorts of things ;D

<< Comment #192 @ 11:25 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.46.35) - Reply to #190

shape should be

\ /
/_\

or

| |
|_|

<< Comment #193 @ 11:45 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #192

or \o/

<< Comment #195 @ 13:59 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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thuNDa - Reply to #190

Since when are there different D2F-01F available?
If you mean the D2F-01FL to be lighter, then thats because they use a lever on top of the plunger.
Then there would be the D2F-01 which require twice as much force and should be a no-go for mainbuttons.

<< Comment #197 @ 15:09 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #195

Oh ok, but yeah, I was talking about D2F-01, I haven't tried them before though.

Edit: just to clarify -
The prototypes are being made with D2F-01F for main and side buttons

But what I meant in that post was that I could try D2F-01 if the D2F-01F are way too sensitive. But since you say they're a no-go for main buttons, I would have to look at something else (maybe D2FC-F-7N). But tbh I think the D2F-01F will be just fine... But maybe D2F-01 would be nice for side buttons.

Also I find that some mice with D2FC-F-7N are too easy to press just because of the way the buttons are shaped/made on the mouse, and on others they can be harder to press, so in the end I just have to try things out until I get it right. I think I am quite sure what most people want from it though, so I know what I'm looking for.

Edited by »bst at 15:40 CST, 2 December 2011

<< Comment #188 @ 04:11 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (85.23.14.115)

Looks very promising, you have a shot in making a legendary mouse like wmo that will be bought for many years to come. I will definately be keeping eye on this project. Please take your time to perfect it and dont release it before its really done.

Perfect mouse for me has

- no prediction
- no accel
- no angle snapping
- good perfect control speed
- sensor in the middle of the mouse
- light weight
- atleast 500hz polling rate
- no glossy sides (deathadder :I)

And couple other things to consider
- Get a few community members to test it that know what they are doing
- Test the perfect control speeds etc with reliable equipment
- Test the mouse with multiple mousemats

<< Comment #191 @ 09:52 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #188

Ok, see http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2191611#pid2191611

Other than that - I will try and get the mouse out to some high skilled and knowledgable people before release (I have some ideas about this), and ofc test with many mouse mats.

<< Comment #203 @ 18:02 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.46.35) - Reply to #188

sensor position like the wmo is better, just a bit on the front, this way you have a easyer time with the wrist

<< Comment #196 @ 15:05 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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ashy

Just one question/request: why have you chosen to use, in the mouse1/2 buttons, concavities instead of a convex shape (similar to the WMO one)?

I mean, the curve of the buttons in the part closer to the cord.
From my experience, that shape may lead often to very responsive buttons (like in the deadadder/IME), which may scare fingertip-grip users.

Please make sure the force that needs to be applied isn't too low, I think the best comparison would be an MX510/518.

<< Comment #198 @ 15:20 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #196

If you are talking about the mouse in the first post, I'm not doing it anymore (I'll update the post soon), its going to be this:
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4558/tg5b1.jpg

I don't think the force will be mega-low, because the 1&2 buttons are part of the same plastic that extends down the back of the mouse (even though it doesn't look like it), which makes them need a bit more force to press than the separate buttons like on the mouse in the first post.

Edited by »bst at 15:21 CST, 2 December 2011

<< Comment #199 @ 15:42 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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ashy - Reply to #198

again, just out of curiosity, why did you choose this shape of "long mouse1/2 buttons" (like the copperhead) instead of shorter buttons, like the IME/WMO?

I personally would have chosen the latter, despite not being able to give any particular reason for doing so

<< Comment #200 @ 16:14 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #199

There isn't really any reason, they just happen to be like that on the shape I thought was best, from the selection I had to choose from.

Theres a lot to choose from out there (though most are useless, or plain rip-offs of other gaming mice), but it also comes down to the factory. I'm using quite a large factory which has a lot of mice to choose from, with their own mold making and good R&D facilities, also very good quality control and ability to meet high demand if needed. Also their sales team and engineers are very quick to respond and understand what I want straight away. They also have enough pull with suppliers so I don't have to pay loads more for things like omron switches and a decent pcb etc.

If things go well then I can look back on this thread when I design new molds, and have a lot more control over these things. In the end though its hard to please everyone with just one mouse, but this one just seems to be a solid design which will help to build the brand.

<< Comment #202 @ 18:02 CST, 2 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.46.35) - Reply to #199

the wmo butons are not small at all if you open it you can clearly see where it s sticked to the other elements.

<< Comment #206 @ 02:17 CST, 3 December 2011 >>

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By

s7e

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4558/tg5b1.jpg

and

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8246/pb110019.jpg
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4238/pb110013.jpg

are the same model/mold?

What will the end colors/textures be like on the above model?
It isn't possible to get entire mouse the textured plastic?
Which parts will be rubber if rubber?/Will you offer a non rubber version?

Is it not possible to also get a mold that is a knock off of the WMO that is similar full rough plastic texture? Wouldn't it share all the same parts that you would be using on the mold you decided on? I doubt you would have problems selling them if it is a WMO with a good sensor/switches. I am sure it is cheaper to get a single mold, but if it isn't much more to get another mold if they both share all the other same parts you would be using (cord, feet, sensor, buttons, software, etc)

You seem to have almost everything to have these mice done. I will gladly pay for the mouse and be an early tester for you. I was very close to trying to modify my WMO to hold a deathadder sensor and this will save me a lot of troubles. Let me know if you will be doing early testers. I will be looking forward to this mouse and the Zowie AM (sorta)

<< Comment #207 @ 11:54 CST, 3 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #206

- are the same model/mold? yes

- What will the end colors/textures be like on the above model?
Like the top picture - rubber coating on top (in all areas where its grey), textured tinted transparent plastic on sides and bottom, normal black plastic for the side buttons and dpi button.

- It isn't possible to get entire mouse the textured plastic?
Not really, it can be glossy on top, but a textured top means modifying the mold.

- Which parts will be rubber if rubber?/Will you offer a non rubber version?
At first its probably just going to be the rubber coated version, if people want a glossy one then I'll do it as well. But later I'll do a form where people can register interest, this will give me a good idea how many to order on the first batch, and what versions people want. There won't be any pre-orders, but if you register interest then you will be emailed news when the mouse is due and when it comes out.

- Is it not possible to also get a mold that is a knock off of the WMO that is similar full rough plastic texture?
I think its best to start with one mouse shell atm, I don't want to over extend myself. Yeah I can get an exact replica of the WMO and put in good switches and sensor etc, but its from another factory, and I'm not sure microsoft would be too happy about it :)

tbh theres probably not going to be a great deal of early testers, maybe even none, except myself ofc. The factory will test the technical aspects like max speed etc. (actually they test tons of things, you should see their lab, its pretty crazy looking with all sorts of custom machines), and give reports (and I will test it as well, on many different mouse mats), and I know what to look for in the prototype. I mean shape wise things aren't going to change hardly at all. I don't really see what other people are going to test that I can't test myself. My aim is basically at pro level anyway, and I've played for nearly 15 years, experienced the best mice etc...

This isn't so different to what all the other mouse companies do, I mean they get the general idea from the pros (in the case of the AM, it was probably something along the lines of - "make it like the xai and make it lighter with an optical sensor etc"), and make the mold, but once thats done, its done - molds are very difficult and expensive to change. The changes made after the prototype are small and technical. Whats more, its not cheap to get a prototype, so once thats paid its pretty much going to happen anyway, unless I want to chuck money down the drain ;) So what I am saying is the pre-testing of the shape of the mouse is basically done, and the only things that are left are technical and quality (ie, jitter, mouse button sensitivity, little things on the PCB and software, rubber coating etc). Being a total perfectionist myself and not afraid to push the factory hard, I think it'll be fine :)

<< Comment #208 @ 17:09 CST, 3 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.46.35) - Reply to #207

make pics of the labs would be awesome for us non professional of this industry =)

<< Comment #209 @ 19:08 CST, 3 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #208

Ok heres some ;)

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2843/cabletest.jpg
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/7137/humiditytest.jpg
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/5792/ledtester.jpg
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3618/mousebuttontester.jpg
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7184/scrollwheeltest.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4816/trackingspeedtester.jpg

Tbh I find the injection molding is far more technically impressive, but the labs look the strangest xD Btw those pics are pretty old, from their last premesis, say 6-8 years ago, so I doubt they use those exact same ones anymore.

If you want to see how molds are made take a look at this vid:
http://youtu.be/kf5dmjOM-RE
You can see why they're so expensive Oo (sorry if the vid is pretty boring btw)

Heres some of the injection mold machines at the factory:
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5002/ijmachine.jpg

Heres a random one from youtube at work:
http://youtu.be/orgRePvA1EY

Heres some PCB manufacturing:
http://youtu.be/YJS_Jqw3Sy0

Edited by »bst at 19:17 CST, 3 December 2011

<< Comment #214 @ 02:09 CST, 5 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.46.35) - Reply to #209

felt so hypnotic at 4am, almost looked like an amon tobin song

anyway thats cool pics thx.

<< Comment #210 @ 22:14 CST, 3 December 2011 >>

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By

s7e

Can they not use the same plastic on top the for the entire top? You said a glossy version instead of rubber, why not just two textures (one for bottom/sides, one for top)? Or is the plastic on top that isnt rubber a glossy plastic?

Edited by s7e at 22:15 CST, 3 December 2011

<< Comment #211 @ 23:18 CST, 3 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #210

Ok just to clarify, the whole top part is made of three main pieces which if not coated in rubber are glossy. So it can be all glossy, all rubber coated, or a combo. The sample I got from the factory was the combo type:
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4238/pb110013.jpg

But I won't be doing that version :)

The glossy part in that photo is one large piece, and the rubber coated parts (the main 1&2 buttons and the bit behind them), are separate. They clip into the larger glossy section.

Then you have the bottom part of the mouse, which is one piece, it forms the base of the mouse and extends up the sides.

So the two different types will have the same bottom part, but the top three parts will be coated in rubber, or all glossy.

Edited by »bst at 23:19 CST, 3 December 2011

<< Comment #212 @ 03:37 CST, 4 December 2011 >>

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s7e

Ok so full rubber top? what is this texture like? Similar as on deathadder/abyssus?

Do you have an eta you are hoping to have the mouse finished?

<< Comment #213 @ 16:49 CST, 4 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #212

Yeah its like that.

Not sure of an ETA yet, probably around mid feb is a safe date for me to predict, but maybe a lot sooner... depends how many revisions it needs.

<< Comment #215 @ 07:43 CST, 5 December 2011 >>

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Tobbe

OK can you give the size of it?
(My picture calculations says a nice LHW of 115x38x57 mm =)

<< Comment #216 @ 08:05 CST, 5 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #215

hehe very close, the factory gives the size as:
117.5 x 38 x 61

Which is probably correct, I measure it about the same, but with a ruler its not so accurate... I need one of those digital vernier calipers.

<< Comment #217 @ 04:19 CST, 6 December 2011 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #216

Haha cool.. OK thanks.. I like :)

<< Comment #218 @ 05:20 CST, 6 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #217

Cool :)

<< Comment #219 @ 05:50 CST, 6 December 2011 >>

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veryOP

wow, this is shaping up to be really cool, if it's really 50g i'll buy 10

<< Comment #220 @ 12:54 CST, 7 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.25.34) - Reply to #219

he said around 70-85 no ?

<< Comment #221 @ 13:04 CST, 7 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #219

The first mouse was 50g, which at some point I'll probably still do.

The one thats being released first though is a bit heavier, the sample is about 60-65g (hard to be precise because the cord is soldered into the pcb on this one, which it won't be in the final ver btw), but the sample doesn't have the right sensor, so the pcb needs changing. So I can't give an exact weight atm until I get the new version, thats why I say 70-85g, I doubt it will be as heavy as 85g though. And if it can be made lighter, I will.

<< Comment #226 @ 21:22 CST, 7 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.152.62) - Reply to #221

good to hear this. In your opinion as an exemple, isnt the DA pcb heavy?

The mx518 was heavy iirc.

<< Comment #228 @ 22:02 CST, 7 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #226

I don't know if the DA pcb is heavy, haven't got one here. I'll just wait and see what they do, they know I want it to be as light as possible, so it shouldn't be too bad.

<< Comment #222 @ 15:52 CST, 7 December 2011 >>

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Thirst

It would be great if the dimensions could be at or under 115mm in length, and 36 in height, with it's weight being as light as the Razer Abyssus. Also copy a nice shape similar to the Logitech G100 or Steelseries Kinzu.

<< Comment #223 @ 16:20 CST, 7 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (213.112.133.152)

Would it be possible to make some kind of replacement kit for ms mice which enables you to change the internals of the mouse and keep the shell?

I know I know no market.....

<< Comment #224 @ 19:01 CST, 7 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #223

Hmm would be pretty difficult and expensive to do that, mostly because they use a different kind of sensor/lens setup. Unfortunately the Avago sensors & lenses won't just drop in. If they did I would have considered it.

<< Comment #225 @ 19:02 CST, 7 December 2011 >>

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»bst

1st post updated

<< Comment #227 @ 21:36 CST, 7 December 2011 >>

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Shuki - Reply to #225

So this is the one you've committed to?

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9249/pb110011yh.jpg

If so looks decent. Don't like the one at the bottom, but I think that's part of the "old post".

If it is the mouse linked above, what stage are you at in marketing this?

<< Comment #229 @ 22:15 CST, 7 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #227

Yeah thats the one I'm committed to. The one at the bottom may be made later but not atm.

Right now the engineers are working on the prototype, I sent the money for the R&D late last week, but takes a while to get there so they only received the money yesterday (and they started right away). It will take them a couple of weeks or so to get it done. But I will keep this topic updated with any news.

If its all good when I get the prototype, it'll go straight into production. But if I have to make any changes, then I'll want to see another prototype with the changes. Delivery from China usually takes about 5 days or less, so every time I have to do it, it means an extra 5 days + the time it takes them to make the changes, but if they're just small changes it won't take long.

They're generally pretty quick. But bear in mind I have a fair bit of work to get done on the website and things like that as well (though thats already coming along pretty well, seeing as theres just one product on it!).

<< Comment #244 @ 08:09 CST, 10 December 2011 >>

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Shuki - Reply to #229

Well everything looks great from what you've mentioned. As long as the sensor doesn't have any issues, I definitely see you selling a fair few.

Edited by Shuki at 08:10 CST, 10 December 2011

<< Comment #230 @ 01:19 CST, 8 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.152.62)

i just noticed that when looking at the top picture (http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/4161/pb110013q.jpg) next to the wmo the side shape is not streight or concave but is like the opposite, a bit like the abyssus, which is an ergononomic heresy design :/

See, wmo have streight sides in the Y axis which people like and kinzu have a light concave shape in the Y axis, which is extraordinary ergonomic. It just fit perfectly in the hand no matter what size your hand is.

I hope this helps.

<< Comment #233 @ 17:38 CST, 8 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #230

The shape isn't really like that, its got a straight side, I think its just the lens on the camera which makes it look convex.

If you look at the pic of the base you can see it:
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/272/pb110028.jpg

<< Comment #247 @ 20:01 CST, 10 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.152.62) - Reply to #233

you are right it is due to the camera lens and or angle/distance which makes it ronded, but still if you want the best shape you should concider trying to make the sides shape just a little bit curved, exactly like kinzu.

<< Comment #251 @ 17:41 CST, 12 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.152.62) - Reply to #233

well as mentioned befor, if you make the sides shape like the kinzu you might seen lots of well known players buying it, ie: linkin winz etc

<< Comment #252 @ 00:27 CST, 13 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #251

Ok, but it would mean a new mouse really, so its noted, but can't happen atm.

<< Comment #234 @ 17:53 CST, 8 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #230

I took a better pic:
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/4711/1003820p.jpg

<< Comment #231 @ 03:44 CST, 8 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (89.69.98.232)

I think semi tansparent sides are ugly...

Would there be risk of bricking your mouse when changing settings/firmware? if yes then maybe try something like dual bios.

IMO cord should be thin and stiff, great example is one in old a4tech gaming mice http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/8501/dscn2202.jpg . There is one disadvantage - it breaks easly but i loved it anyway, felt wireless,
keep in mind - FCC came back and said that our cable was not "shielded" enough in compliance to their new USB3.0 standards
from: http://www.overclock.net/t/930742/puretrak-va...t_13873440

I hope side buttons PCB is going to stay detachable like in your picture.

<< Comment #235 @ 17:58 CST, 8 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #231

Ok thanks for the info, I'll look into both things.

Btw the cord will have a ferrite bead, which stops interference, but I'll ask about the USB 3.0 standards.

<< Comment #232 @ 17:37 CST, 8 December 2011 >>

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horf

OI MAKE ME ONE WITH A STEEL SHELL !

<< Comment #236 @ 18:00 CST, 8 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #232

xD

<< Comment #237 @ 06:16 CST, 9 December 2011 >>

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wolf1e

make a jitter free abyssus
/thread

Edited by wolf1e at 06:16 CST, 9 December 2011

<< Comment #238 @ 11:30 CST, 9 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.152.62) - Reply to #237

as if the only problems of the abyssus was the jittering samples.

aby shape is horide, so does it s LOD.

<< Comment #239 @ 18:55 CST, 9 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (98.114.20.44)

So when are they available for purchase?

<< Comment #240 @ 00:01 CST, 10 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #239

I hope the first mouse will be available by late feb or early march, I think thats a realistic date, it just depends how smoothly everything goes. The prototype will be done much sooner, but there are still many things to do afterwards.

Given its the first mouse there could be unexpected delays, as theres much more things to do than for a 2nd mouse, and although I could try and rush it out, I would rather do it properly first time round. Bear in mind its not just a mouse, but a whole new business.

But as things progress I will keep updating and when I can be sure of a final release date, I will let everyone know :)

<< Comment #241 @ 00:20 CST, 10 December 2011 >>

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Xen_Crypt - Reply to #240

how many mice would you have to sell to make a profit?

<< Comment #242 @ 03:31 CST, 10 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #241

Depends on a lot of things, like where its sold, how things go over the next few months, what decisions are made etc. I don't really want to say tbh (just like I wouldn't say how much the mouse costs, or where I'm getting it made), but lets just say the highest projected amount isn't that high, and there shouldn't be problems making profit in the first year.

The reason why I think that, aside from the research thats been done, is because a lot of costs have been saved by using things which the factory already has sorted out, and are experienced with themselves, so the R&D costs etc are pretty low. A lot of whats going into this mouse comes from their top end gaming mouse (which I didn't like the shape of, or the 9500 sensor, but otherwise is really good, its been connected up to a PC for a few months now with heavy use, and no issues at all). It also helps using a large and long established factory who have everything in place with regards to inspections, warranty, quality control, testing, R&D, programming, high capacity production, and having good relations with suppliers.

On top of that the skills needed for other areas which are mostly business related (pr/accounts/management/shipping & packing/website and graphic design etc), are already available in the parent company, which keeps costs low, since I don't have to immediately employ people or spend time doing things which other people can do. It also means if it sadly did end up not being profitable, it won't go bust, warranties will still be honoured and the website will stay up. The company has been running for nearly 50 years so its not in the habit of letting people down :)

I know I didn't answer your question directly, but I hope I've shown a lot of thought and preparation has been put into this.

<< Comment #243 @ 04:01 CST, 10 December 2011 >>

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Xen_Crypt - Reply to #242

ty for a better answer than i ever expected :)

<< Comment #245 @ 12:13 CST, 10 December 2011 >>

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winz - Reply to #242

HAS

<< Comment #246 @ 13:01 CST, 10 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (88.73.124.38)

shape : wingman gaming mouse style

buttons: 1 thumb button + 3 normal buttons
wheel: soft and solid scrollwheel
sensor: unskipable sensor with low liftoff and glass compatibility
software: no prediction / no accel / 500 hz 450/800 dpi
tapes: teflon glide tapes(WHITE), 3 with same shape and 2mm
cable: very low weight and flexible cable
weight: about 60-85 gr

done!

<< Comment #282 @ 19:44 CST, 2 January 2012 >>

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Pirx - Reply to #246

hey, i'd love to see someone bringing back this one.

<< Comment #248 @ 14:40 CST, 12 December 2011 >>

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Glockateer

Nice work, I'll be watching this.

<< Comment #249 @ 15:08 CST, 12 December 2011 >>

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per1klez

This entire thread reminds me of car club morons thinking they can design a better car than the manufacturer or improve upon it by lowering the front end of their shitty racer, installing a muffler/rear spoiler/cooler rims.

Should probably leave all the intricasies to the boys upstairs or just do what noctis did and shut the fuck up.

<< Comment #250 @ 17:41 CST, 12 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.152.62) - Reply to #249

what ntcs did?

<< Comment #258 @ 18:12 CST, 16 December 2011 >>

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per1klez - Reply to #250

Made his own ghetto rigged mouse because it was his personal preference of a shell. Opposed to people who think they can create the single most perfect mouse for a game, when in reality its 99% preference. If there was one single type of mouse that was best for a specific game, then you wouldn't see pros easily swapping mice for sponsors all the time and still maintaining their results.

<< Comment #253 @ 06:39 CST, 13 December 2011 >>

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thuNDa - Reply to #249

If this reminds you to what you say, then u r the moron.

<< Comment #254 @ 12:01 CST, 13 December 2011 >>

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per1klez - Reply to #253

[ + ] for funny broken english

<< Comment #272 @ 11:29 CST, 31 December 2011 >>

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jstn - Reply to #249

Yeah, nobody make anything new -- that's stupid.

<< Comment #286 @ 04:24 CST, 3 January 2012 >>

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crea* - Reply to #249

The level of engineering doesn't get much more professional then what he did, looking from all angles at the product, getting input from gamers and finally setting his priorities for a gaming mouse suited for hardcore gamers, that's more than some 'pro engineers' can say for themselfes (Steelseries).

<< Comment #255 @ 14:37 CST, 16 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (85.89.182.94)

Well after two huge letdowns of Zowie AM and Steelseries Kana/KinzuV2 you still have a decent amount of users looking for a good mouse.
I wish you all the best!

<< Comment #256 @ 16:47 CST, 16 December 2011 >>

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thuNDa - Reply to #255

whats the huge letdown with the zowie AM?
mainbuttons interfering only when u hold the mouse weirdly.

EDIT: and it seems that the button problem occur only on the GS version.

Edited by thuNDa at 07:01 CST, 17 December 2011

<< Comment #257 @ 17:55 CST, 16 December 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #256

Could be the hard switches they used and some complain about the shape - hard to grip since it's like /__\

<< Comment #259 @ 16:15 CST, 17 December 2011 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #257

Shape is preference. It can't fit everyone. The AM does not look like a "huge letdown" in terms of performance. Quite the opposite in fact (assuming the button problem is specific to the GS version and that Zowie can sort it out - the accept returns already if you have this problem and your warranty isn't void if you try to fix it carefully I think).

<< Comment #260 @ 16:46 CST, 17 December 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #259

Yeh its not bad actually. I dont have any problems on my GS, abit small but I just got it 2 days ago so still in the process of getting used to. Really wish they used softer switches though.. Every time I game, I get slight cramps from pounding the mouse buttons.

<< Comment #261 @ 05:51 CST, 18 December 2011 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #260

Yeah, I'll have to see for myself. (Just ordered it directly from Zowie).

Maybe they will ease up a bit over time. Happened to every mouse and switch I've used to far.

<< Comment #262 @ 05:37 CST, 24 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (108.45.113.69)

Any news on when this is going into production?

<< Comment #263 @ 14:52 CST, 24 December 2011 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #262

Around February if all goes smooth.

<< Comment #267 @ 05:49 CST, 30 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #262

Around end of February / early March I reckon, this is my first mouse though so its hard to be really precise at this stage. But as soon as I can give a proper release date I will.

<< Comment #362 @ 09:19 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #267

I'm buying son, get a cool box though, make it look $$$$

<< Comment #264 @ 16:40 CST, 24 December 2011 >>

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azxx

looking good so far.

what are you gonna call it? lol

<< Comment #265 @ 16:53 CST, 24 December 2011 >>

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toop - Reply to #264

nonsensi

<< Comment #266 @ 05:39 CST, 30 December 2011 >>

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»bst - Reply to #264

Thanks, not sure what I'm going to call it yet Oo

<< Comment #268 @ 06:02 CST, 30 December 2011 >>

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horf - Reply to #266

he should call it reesha cause it's freaking light.

Edited by Rauvz at 07:16 CST, 30 December 2011

<< Comment #269 @ 12:43 CST, 30 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (92.37.122.215)

Congrats on the project, hope it turns out well!

The only thing that's bugging me is that you're talking about using a mechanical type wheel encoder.
I hope you reconsider. Pretty much every mouse with a mechanical encoder I used would start skipping and "bouncing back" occasionally.. the two MX518s I used were the worst. But the same was happening to a lesser degree with a Deathadder and some other mice.

OTOH I've been using an Ikari Optical for more than two years now. Not even _one_ single skip or bounce back from the mousewheel. I've been told it's because it uses an optical encoder. IDC, but it works fantastic and for me this is crucial in game, since I have "wheel up" for the primary weapon and "wheel down" for the secondary.

<< Comment #270 @ 21:26 CST, 30 December 2011 >>

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Anonymous (108.45.113.69) - Reply to #269

^this

I dread the optical encoder in my DA 3.5G BE, I can never bind anything on it to mwheelup since if I do then it occasionally activates at random whenever I use mwheeldown which annoys the hell out of me. The best mouse wheel imo is on the Zowie EC series (I have an EC1 blue), it's a lot louder than the DA's near silent mouse wheel but it has flawless registry and is a lot nicer to use imo due to it's tactile response.

<< Comment #290 @ 11:57 CST, 3 January 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #270

Your DA and all DA's have mechanical encoders.

Zowie EC = Optical.

Edited by Skylit at 11:58 CST, 3 January 2012

<< Comment #273 @ 00:43 CST, 2 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #269

Ok, thanks for the info. The reason why I went with mechanical is because I heard there were some problems with the optical encoders just as much as the mechanical ones, so decided to go with the best mechanical one I could find. Its a bit different to the DA one tbh, its more distinct, so I am thinking because of that it shouldn't suffer as badly with 'false scrolls' as other mechanical encoders. It ticks all the boxes really, the only unknown atm is how well it does over time.

Heres a post on overclock.net which explains some problems with the Zowie EC scroll wheel: http://www.overclock.net/t/857997/my-zowie-ec2-experience

The scroll wheel will be tested, with a machine which puts it through thousands of cycles (simulating years of use), so I'll be looking for the problem. If it shows up I'll look more into the optical encoders.

<< Comment #291 @ 11:58 CST, 3 January 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #273

They have them backwards.

<< Comment #293 @ 13:39 CST, 3 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #291

Ah thats good then :D cheers.

<< Comment #289 @ 11:57 CST, 3 January 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #269

... Mx518 uses an Optical encoder. Ikari optical uses an ALPS mechanical.

<< Comment #274 @ 01:30 CST, 2 January 2012 >>

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»bst

Heres a preview of the mouse drivers, if anyone has any suggestions feel free to comment :) I can do most of this myself so open to most ideas, such as layout, graphics, wording etc. (basically I'm doing the skins). If you have any suggestions that change the actual options on the drivers, I'll ask the factory what can be done.

Also I'll do the translations for the different languages, so if anyone would like to tell me what they think the words should be translated to, that would be a big help, because it always looks lame when things are badly translated :>

Btw:

- The photo of the mouse will be different, its just a concept atm.

- I am going to ask the factory what can be done about the LED colours, personally I don't mind it but since it has an RGB LED it could probably do a lot more colours if the interface was better.

- The 3000 and 4000 DPI settings aren't native to the 3050 sensor but I thought I'd offer them anyway, it doesn't affect the lower DPI performance and could be useful for some people.

- The logo isn't on them yet :)

Anyway here they are:
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/8706/pg1n.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2071/pg2t.jpg
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4701/pg3s.jpg

<< Comment #275 @ 06:21 CST, 2 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.61.120) - Reply to #274

i disagree on LEDs and CPI button. Also extra buttons on the sides is a bad idea because when in action you dont want to move the thumb holding the mouse, better place would be somewhere near scrool wheel.

<< Comment #277 @ 10:36 CST, 2 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (69.116.187.141) - Reply to #274

The Windows Sensitivity should be 1 - 11 no?

<< Comment #278 @ 13:15 CST, 2 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #277

Yeah thats true, although a lot of drivers tend to use 1-10 (so 5=6), they just knock off the lowest sensitivity so it ranges from 2-11, and they call it 1-10. I'll ask if they can change it to 1-11 :)

<< Comment #300 @ 18:12 CST, 7 January 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #274

i keep throwing my money at my monitor but it's not working! :[

<< Comment #302 @ 19:45 CST, 7 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #300

Shame, I would love it if that worked xD

<< Comment #276 @ 09:19 CST, 2 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (92.37.126.232)

Personally I don't care about any LEDs. It seems like useless cr@p. But if you want to add them and they don't interfere, fine.

Regarding DPI switching: I like how Steelseries does this, where you can set a "low" and "high" DPI in the settings, and then switch just between these two. It's not a big deal for me, I only switch DPI when editing pictures, but perhaps it would be a nice option to have.

I hope that the driver won't have to be installed to use the mouse, with some process running in the background. I'd rather see it all saved on the mouse itself.

Regarding buttons, I disagree with the Anon before me: I think thumb buttons are a well established feature that a lot of people are used to. But they need to be implemented so that they don't get accidentally pressed when moving and lifting up the mouse.

<< Comment #279 @ 13:23 CST, 2 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #276

With the DPI switching, I don't know if I can do incremental DPI settings, like 1,2,3,4... etc. But what you can do is tick the box under, for example, 750 and 3000, and the DPI button only switches between those two.

The driver isn't needed at all, you can install the driver, set the settings, then uninstall it, and the mouse remembers the settings. Then you can take it to another PC and it still remembers them. But you don't ever have to install the drivers if you're happy enough with the default settings.

I've been using the mouse for quite a while now and don't have any trouble with the side buttons at all, but it is one of those things where its impossible to please everyone, but I think most people will be happy with them.

<< Comment #280 @ 16:31 CST, 2 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.184.129) - Reply to #279

i m not gonna insinte anymore and not trying to look like a sadic but i ll tell in just once more :P

puting extra buttons is kind of ok but if it s to do it like other brands that are doing it wrong and put it in the sides (thumb) then what is the dif btw your mouse and other brands? I mean what is then the target audience?

I though you were trying to make something outstanding and smart ;<

<< Comment #281 @ 18:44 CST, 2 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #280

Well I tried some mice with the extra buttons in the centre of the mouse, but they were all really awkward, not that the idea is bad but from what there was to choose from, there wasn't anything good enough imo (wasn't just the buttons but the shape and other things).

Atm I don't have the budget/authorisation to do my own design so this is the best I could find. Still from looking at this thread I think I got 99% of what people want. So the target audience is right here, people like this, the ones who want side buttons anyway ;)

If anyones suggestion isn't in this mouse, I'm not ignoring them or anything, but this is just one mouse, I have really listened to everything people have said, but theres just only so much I can do on one mouse. I guess if some people don't like it then all I can say is keep an eye out for what I do in the future.

<< Comment #283 @ 20:23 CST, 2 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.184.129) - Reply to #281

Very good answer, ty.

<< Comment #284 @ 20:31 CST, 2 January 2012 >>

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By

Oaki_Duke

gonna be honest, I've only read a little bit of the OP and looked at pictures, so idk anything that's been discussed in this thread, but is this available anywhere?

<< Comment #292 @ 12:39 CST, 3 January 2012 >>

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jstn - Reply to #284

"Around end of February / early March I reckon, this is my first mouse though so its hard to be really precise at this stage. But as soon as I can give a proper release date I will."

Edited by jstn at 12:40 CST, 3 January 2012

<< Comment #287 @ 04:27 CST, 3 January 2012 >>

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By

crea*

Don't forget to slap the 'ESR seal of approval' on once it's finished :x

<< Comment #288 @ 10:28 CST, 3 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (151.188.213.229) - Reply to #287

this x1000, preferably on the bottom.

<< Comment #294 @ 07:44 CST, 5 January 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (62.177.200.138)

I want one! :D

<< Comment #295 @ 09:23 CST, 7 January 2012 >>

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By

avinin1

So far it sounds very intersting, hopes for you and us that it will turn out to be great success.

About shipping - how much it will costs to ship the mouse to israel?

About the name - I suggest you to name the mouse by yours, but in acronym - just like zowie gear did with both EC (Emil Christensen) and AM (Abdisamad Mohamed) - most creative idea instead of giving your mouse fancy and stupid marketing names. :)

GL&HF

<< Comment #296 @ 12:49 CST, 7 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (173.79.201.5) - Reply to #295

this, and what would the company name be?

<< Comment #298 @ 12:58 CST, 7 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #296

I don't know that either yet :/ I really really got to come up with one. I've been through loads of names. Just got to pick one really :/ its way harder than I thought, but then I am pretty crap with coming up with names tbh :(

<< Comment #308 @ 10:58 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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kapca - Reply to #298

name it GL&HF :)

<< Comment #312 @ 11:10 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #308

lol :D

<< Comment #317 @ 13:40 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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azxx - Reply to #298

you could just use something with 'bst' haha

<< Comment #297 @ 12:56 CST, 7 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #295

Thanks for your nice comments :)

I'll find out about the shipping charge, depends what you want though, normal mail or courier like UPS?

You know what I thought.... I thought the EC meant ErgonomiC and AM meant AMbidextrous, lol, and ofc mico is like micro Oo Oh well now I know, hehe.

I could just give them model numbers like Logitech does, or call it something like 'Xiphos' which is "a double-edged, single-hand sword used by the ancient Greeks", ie something that is kind of fitting for a lightweight gaming mouse.

<< Comment #299 @ 17:54 CST, 7 January 2012 >>

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pTOLEmy - Reply to #297

Really looking forward to this mouse! Where can i order! :>? Wouldn't mind paying in advance

<< Comment #301 @ 19:32 CST, 7 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #299

Me too xD I've been using it for quite a while now, but with the standard pcb with some random pixart sensor and cheap switches, its not terrible but I can't wait until I can use it with decent internals :D

I'm working on a pre-order system atm. Hopefully I should get the prototype at around the 16th Jan, the PCB is pretty much done now (can 5 days to deliver though). Just hope the prototype doesn't need many changes. Then it has to go through testing for certification.

So probably pre-orders around the start of feb if things go well, as I should know the exact release date and price by then. Bit of a guess though... being the first time its really hard to predict how long things take. But everything will get much clearer when I have the prototype.

Gotta say though I don't want to rush it and mess things up. I don't want people being disappointed with things that could have been avoided with a bit of patience and planning. So pre-orders won't happen until I'm 100% happy with its performance, and 100% sure its on track for the release date.

<< Comment #304 @ 20:49 CST, 7 January 2012 >>

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pTOLEmy - Reply to #301

I consider this as a project. So even if the mouse fails, i won't be disappointed. Ive got so many mice laying around, you'd almost think i am collecting them.

<< Comment #363 @ 09:29 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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Bob - Reply to #304

.

Edited by Bob at 20:55 CDT, 27 June 2024

<< Comment #303 @ 20:33 CST, 7 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #301

Sounds great, the way its meant to be done. Sad not many actually do this though..

<< Comment #306 @ 09:41 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #301

You'll likely have a problem with the 3050 then as messing with the lift off algorithm will throw off the max capable tracking speed. What MCU are you choosing? How skilled are the people programing your firmware?

I would also like to mention that after testing a few mice with this sensor, I can't say that I like it (granted each firmware has it's own problems) Tracking quality or "precision" becomes worse and worse once you hit over 1000 CPI line. Sensor is truly entry level =x

Edited by Skylit at 09:50 CST, 8 January 2012

<< Comment #310 @ 11:00 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #306

Well I'll see what its like when I get it, if it is really bad then it shouldn't be too much hassle to change to the pixart 3305 with the 0.5x lens, I know its not everyones favourite sensor but I never had a big issue with it. I just figured the 3050 was worth a go.

MCU is http://www.holtek.com/english/docum/computer/82a525r.htm

The programmers for the firmware seem pretty skilled to me, they're in-house, I've tried their gaming mice and they're fine.

BTW what mice have you tried with the 3050 sensor? I've got a Xornet and seems ok, fair enough it doesn't like extremely fast movements, but for sens 3 at 500 dpi seemed fine. However as far as I know, CM didn't get the most out of the 3090 sensor, so wouldn't surprise me if they didn't get the most out of the 3050 either.

<< Comment #318 @ 13:59 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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footloose - Reply to #310

I've read some complaints about that Xornet's sensor in the Overclock.net forums.

Couldn't you use some sensor which is known to track well, like the Deathadder's? (I think the original DA was supposed to have the best sensor, but I didn't do any tests myself.)

Of course I'll wait to see how the final product turns out before making any judgments.

<< Comment #320 @ 15:16 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #318

TBH, all sensors on the market seem to have have one problem or another. Neither Deathadder sensors are available, only the avago 3090 (which afaik is based on the DA sensor), which is a good sensor but its also a bit scary because its not an easy one to work with. Its also in the Abyssus and look at the trouble that has had. Also its not much cheaper than the top of the range 9500 sensor in the Sensei.

The Xornet sensor (also in the logitech G100) has some pretty good specs on the Avago site. 160 IPS max tracking speed is insane really. So I think it has some potential, and worth a try.

A pretty easy sensor to go with is the Pixart sensor from the Steelseries Kana / Zowie Mico / Roccat Pyra & Kova+. Its got some mild prediction and not as good tracking as the 3090, but it does have good tracking speed, afaik its also 160 IPS.

Theres also the Avago 3060 sensor from the Zowie EC mice. But it has some really noticable prediction. However its got excellent tracking. So it might be a candidate if I can somehow get the prediction turned off.

Then there is the Avago 9500 laser sensor (in the Xai and Sensei to name just two), not sure about that one, not many seem to like it, and its the most expensive.

But yeah, just have to wait and see how it turns out.

<< Comment #316 @ 12:55 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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jstn - Reply to #297

Whatever you decide to call it, put something like Mark IV or Version 3.21b on the end of the name just to troll everybody.

<< Comment #305 @ 08:44 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (194.117.188.126)

Do you have an RRS feed I can subscribe to, to follow updates?

And I seriously wouldn't mind buying an alpha prototype version and help test it. Unreported bugs can only be fixed by accident and all that. Given enough eyeballs all bugs are shallow.

<< Comment #307 @ 10:29 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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pTOLEmy - Reply to #305

same!

<< Comment #311 @ 11:05 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #305

Don't have an RSS feed atm, but the 1st post has all the latest info and gets updated when theres anything new happening. I'll look into it though.

I can pretty much test most things by myself, but when I've got it to the stage where I think its finished, then I will consider sending it out to some people and see if they can find anything else that should be addressed.

<< Comment #309 @ 11:00 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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bmes_

why is there 300 posts about a 3 button mouse

<< Comment #315 @ 11:35 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #309

I guess because people like talking about mice ;)

<< Comment #336 @ 09:42 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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crea* - Reply to #309

Why is there a post pointing out 300 posts in a topic called "new gaming mouse development" in the hardware forum of a gaming website?

<< Comment #313 @ 11:14 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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Ffleri

Perfect shape is more like wmo/kinzu/xai (IMHO kinzu's shape is just perfect choice. It can fit any hands and grip style.).
How much will it cost? I really hope for no more than 50$.

Edited by Ffleri at 11:19 CST, 8 January 2012

<< Comment #314 @ 11:34 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #313

Its pretty much exactly the same dimensions and shape as the kinzu, just doesn't widen at the back.

Price is TBA, though there will probably be a discount for pre-orders, and am thinking of a way to reward people who posted in this thread too.

Edited by »bst at 11:34 CST, 8 January 2012

<< Comment #323 @ 18:22 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #314

S T E E L S H E L L
T
E
E
L
S
H
E
L
L

\o/

<< Comment #326 @ 06:41 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #314

Could you post any size measurments?

Would like to compare it next to old diamondback from razer..

<< Comment #327 @ 07:10 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #326

L 117.5 x W 61 x H 38 mm

<< Comment #329 @ 07:46 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #327

nice so this is basiclly even smaller than wmo?

<< Comment #331 @ 08:36 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #329

Yeah but not by a huge amount, just a bit shorter and doesn't flare out at the back. Look in the 1st post, theres some comparison shots next to a WMO.

<< Comment #348 @ 12:18 CST, 10 January 2012 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #331

Hard to jude out from pics.. but its cool.I got both mouses at home, and wmo feels bigger compared to dback.And looking by size spec of ur mouse its even smaller than dback!!Looking forward to release might try it out.

<< Comment #351 @ 13:45 CST, 10 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #348

They're all really similar tbh, but yeah my mouse is the smaller of them all, the biggest difference is the length, which is about 1cm shorter than both the diamondback and wmo.

I have cut the rubber sides of my diamondback with a razer (:p), so its level with the thumb buttons, I didn't really like how wide it was at the front. So it feels very similar then, except the length, and also the sides are straighter on mine.

I think the mouse its most similar to is the G1/MX300/G100, just a bit higher.

<< Comment #343 @ 10:13 CST, 10 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.99.24.145) - Reply to #314

Great project!

The wide back is needed for palm users and is what makes the ms3.0 and kinzu so good shapewise.

Have you tried the zowie AM?

Havent found any better sensor: no accel, no correction, low liftoff. Closest I found to ms3.0 with better max speed.

<< Comment #352 @ 14:03 CST, 10 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #343

I dunno, I'm a palmer and it feels fine to me, never get any aches from using it, and I've been using it every day for a couple of months now. Although I'm a fingertip user in windows, but works well like that too.

Actually I don't really like the flared back....and I don't get it. if you hold your hand out and bring your thumb in like you're gripping an invisible mouse, it gets narrower at the back not wider Oo

Yeah if this 3050 sensor turns out not to be so good, it'll be changed to the 3090 sensor which is in the Zowie AM. I could also use the 1.25x lens so its similar... not sure atm, would be interesting to try a few different lenses with that sensor and see what happens.

I also asked the factory to have a word with Avago about the 3060 sensor and turning off the prediction, this could keep the cost down and its a very nice sensor (smooth tracking and nice max speeds). But thats a long shot. If it works though it'd be like the Zowie EC sensor without prediction.

Edited by »bst at 14:10 CST, 10 January 2012

<< Comment #361 @ 09:18 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #314

Hey, can you make it come with a customizable wireweight or sell wireweights? I fucking hate razer bungie and shit, but i loved z4's wireweights, fucking thing disappeared though :(

<< Comment #365 @ 09:52 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #361

Let me know what you want from one and I'll look into it, personally I use blu-tak lol. But yeah wire weights are much more stylish :)

<< Comment #319 @ 14:38 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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sempron21

This mouse looks great! :D I'm hanging on to my crappy HP mouse and this will be my first decent mouse ever.

<< Comment #321 @ 15:17 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #319

Thanks, hope I can make you happy with it :)

<< Comment #322 @ 17:44 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.109.111)

chaneg thread title =)

<< Comment #325 @ 05:48 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #322

Done ;)

<< Comment #324 @ 19:45 CST, 8 January 2012 >>

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toggl

Looking forward to it

<< Comment #328 @ 07:14 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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ischju

So is there an actual picture of how the mouse looks like right now?

<< Comment #330 @ 08:34 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #328

Yeah in the 1st post under "Original OEM sample".

<< Comment #332 @ 08:40 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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ischju - Reply to #330

Probably been said before but I like the fact that the mouse is a bit higher than the ms 1.1a or 3.0?! (if that is indeed the mouse in the picture) I feel I could benefit from that having changed from the mx518 to the ms 1.1a.

Edited by ischju at 08:41 CST, 9 January 2012

<< Comment #333 @ 09:19 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #332

It is a bit higher than the WMO if you mean that by 1.1a, but only by about 1mm or so.

Edit: Heres a comparison pic:
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/1079/pb110023.jpg
Actually looks a bit lower in that pic, probably just the angle Oo
If I rest a ruler on top of them both though, it drops down on the side of the WMO.

Edited by »bst at 09:21 CST, 9 January 2012

<< Comment #334 @ 09:23 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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ischju - Reply to #333

okay, good to know!

<< Comment #335 @ 09:24 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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Nzr0 '

I thought high DPI was the cause of LOD problems. Never heard anyone with a sub 1000 DPI mouse having them. Have you tested for that yet?

I like the shape you're at right now as it has that back end of the WMO cut off and it looks more or less like a G1/mx300.

<< Comment #337 @ 10:26 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #335

Can't test the LOD yet as I don't have the prototype, but its definitely going to be tested. When I get the prototype I have a starting point, so I can tweak it in whatever direction it needs.

<< Comment #338 @ 10:34 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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footloose

I hate the slippery plastic sides on the Deathadder. I hope you consider some rubberized coating for the sides or at least plastic with a better grip.

But I think your primary focus should be getting the sensor, buttons and scrollwheel to perform properly. Then you might sell the mouse with a few different shells, because eventually the shape/ergonomics is a more subjective preference.

<< Comment #339 @ 10:35 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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Demiurge - Reply to #338

I hate the slippery plastic sides on the Deathadder.

I was very disappointed about that when I got mine, and never used it for gaming.

<< Comment #340 @ 10:50 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #338

I think the sides are the best thing about this mouse, I never lose grip when gaming with it. The plastic is quite grippy and because its like a \_/ shape it doesn't 'want' to slide out of my hand. Its really nice, I don't have to think about the grip at all... unlike with lots of mice I used in the past, where I always had to make sure I washed my hands all the time because the slightest bit of grease or sweat would make it slide out of my hands.

<< Comment #344 @ 10:50 CST, 10 January 2012 >>

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toop - Reply to #340

\_/ shape means like copperhead? Its hard to hold it.
Plane |_| sides are much better.

<< Comment #345 @ 11:09 CST, 10 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #344

No its much more subtle of an angle than the copperhead. Its almost impossible to tell it has it when you look at it. Its almost like |_| but comes in at the bottom by 1mm each side at a guess.

<< Comment #356 @ 21:51 CST, 10 January 2012 >>

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cumrag - Reply to #340

make the mouse feel like a Microsoft 1.1SE

<< Comment #341 @ 19:18 CST, 9 January 2012 >>

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By

KittenIgnition

Give me one for my birthday on January 14 :)

Or you can give me one later... it's ok with me!

<< Comment #342 @ 10:09 CST, 10 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #341

Nice try m8 :)))

<< Comment #354 @ 19:23 CST, 10 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #342

:(

It really is on the 14th, but I'll be OK just pre-ordering it for the discount 8D

<< Comment #349 @ 13:15 CST, 10 January 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #341

hey, mines the 16th. i want one too!

<< Comment #346 @ 11:24 CST, 10 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (217.71.103.18)

the shape looks very good, BUT 500dpi it's a big mistake. Go with 400/800/whatever

<< Comment #347 @ 12:07 CST, 10 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (151.188.213.229) - Reply to #346

Why? just adjust your in game sens...

<< Comment #357 @ 23:51 CST, 10 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (24.33.245.204) - Reply to #347

That what people ask for years now! Extra Light, staight side, 400/800dpi, no light. Basicaly an update wmo with 5buttons(don't really care since i don't use in game like most of player) but for browsing its good.

<< Comment #358 @ 07:49 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (151.188.213.229) - Reply to #357

You seem to be the only one I've encountered that cares about a 100 DPI difference (which can be easily compensated for).

<< Comment #360 @ 09:18 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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c3d - Reply to #358

I don't really care, I only know there is no good sensor. So people will try to match wmo setting and then complain about accelerate or nano skip, don t feel right etc...
Lot of fps (>9000) and a good firmware @400/800/1600

<< Comment #372 @ 14:17 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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T1E - Reply to #360

wmo doesn't have 400 dpi anyway

Edited by T1E at 14:18 CST, 11 January 2012

<< Comment #359 @ 08:04 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #346

I think its best to stick with Avago's DPI options because using different ones could introduce some problems bigger than needing to change sens.

All the sensors are a bit different, people are just used to 400 dpi etc. because those were more popular in the first sensors like the WMOs. But 500 isn't that far away from 400, and 750 isnt that far away from 800 etc.

There is a sensitivity option in the drivers so you can get the same sens as 400 dpi if you really want.. just measure your cm/360 with a 400dpi mouse and then adjust the sens in the drivers of the new mouse so its the same.

Edited by »bst at 08:07 CST, 11 January 2012

<< Comment #378 @ 18:09 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #359

the mouse should remember these settings so they can be used without drivers.

<< Comment #384 @ 19:12 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #378

They will (and do, on a different sample I have which uses the same drivers and mcu). Also when people switch DPI, the sensitivity will be lowered across them all. So for example, if you set the sens to 80% (you can only lower it), and have the DPI button set to 500 dpi and 1000 dpi, it will be converted to 400 DPI and 800 DPI.

<< Comment #350 @ 13:41 CST, 10 January 2012 >>

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w0nk0

so whens this coming out?

<< Comment #353 @ 14:15 CST, 10 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #350

All I can really say is "as soon as I can", I don't want to rush anything, I want it to be good from the moment its released. If things go smoothly then not too long, about 2 months. If I have to change the sensor then it'll be longer.

<< Comment #355 @ 21:02 CST, 10 January 2012 >>

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veryOP - Reply to #353

any chance i could buy a test version so i can test it out before release?

<< Comment #364 @ 09:42 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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By

Bob

.

Edited by Bob at 20:56 CDT, 27 June 2024

<< Comment #366 @ 10:16 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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Ffleri

IMO the shape is good, but the design is crap. I would prefer one material all over the mouse. This glossy things are awful, it should be more simple, black design.

EDIT: And also if u will use some lights on this mouse (wich isn't a good idea too (I just love simplicity), please add an option to turn them off. Sometimes they're annoying.

Edited by Ffleri at 10:24 CST, 11 January 2012

<< Comment #367 @ 10:47 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #366

From the 1st post:

Concept photos (these are very rough):
- next to a wmo:
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/4161/pb110013q.jpg
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8306/pb110015a.jpg
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4564/pb110016.jpg
- different concept drawing with full rubber scroll wheel
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4558/tg5b1.jpg

- Top part of shell: rubber coated (same as deathadder top coating)
- Base of shell and bottom part of the sides: Black tinted (50%) transparent plastic with grainy texture

- LED control, many colours to choose from (uses RGB LED), along with brightness, pulse options (pulse speed + on/off), and option to disable all LED light.

Edited by »bst at 10:48 CST, 11 January 2012

<< Comment #369 @ 12:27 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (217.71.103.18) - Reply to #367

which one do you prefer?

<< Comment #370 @ 12:57 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #369

Scroll wheel? I prefer full rubber one and a bit bigger than the sample. But it hasn't bothered me in-game. Think it will cost over $1000 to change. But then it means I can make a 4 button version as well (because one of the main parts of the mouse which has the side button hole needs a new mold to allow a bigger scroll wheel hole). I'm letting the factory focus on the sensor/pcb and other bits atm, it won't take long to make the mold if I want to do it at the end, and the different scroll wheel is already available and compatible with the new pcb.

<< Comment #377 @ 16:52 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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c3d - Reply to #370

Question was more like compare to a wmo, which one do you prefer? Sensor excluded.

<< Comment #380 @ 18:46 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #377

Hmm thats a really hard question, they feel really similar. Overall though I'm going to say mine, because it feels like I've got a better grip on it. The WMO also irritates my pinky because it rests right on the bit where the two bits of plastic join (you can actually see in the photos where I've put blu-tak in there because it was annoying me lol). The thing the WMO has over mine, is the scroll wheel feels like its in a better position, but I just modded mine to see what its like with a larger rounded and rubber scroll wheel and after that it feels fine, so yeah mine... I don't know if its part of the criteria but I also prefer 6 buttons over 3.

In the end though they feel really similar for the most part.

<< Comment #387 @ 21:05 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (24.33.245.204) - Reply to #380

Thanks for this good answer. Btw the design is really good. I'm in!

<< Comment #390 @ 21:16 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #387

Cool, thanks :)

<< Comment #613 @ 16:18 CST, 25 January 2012 >>

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lesterchaos - Reply to #380

nm

Edited by redrock at 00:23 CST, 1 March 2013

<< Comment #614 @ 21:03 CST, 25 January 2012 >>

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Lorfa - Reply to #613

So in your fingertip or claw grip you "grip" the buttons? That's kinda strange..

<< Comment #376 @ 16:49 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #367

I really really think you should have them look like the concept pic

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4558/tg5b1.jpg

This bottom part, looks blue/mechanical. Looks fucking SWEET.

Just sexy.

I'd totally buy it

<< Comment #385 @ 19:20 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #376

Thanks, that bottom part is from a Razer Diamondback :) its just hard to get the transparent with LED look, in photoshop. It will look fairly similar to that though. I done some new ones a while back but didn't post them yet, still not perfect (can't simulate some things realistically so didn't bother) but at least you can see some different colours ;)

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4558/tg5b1.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8013/tg5b2.jpg
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/314/tg5b3.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7793/tg5b4.jpg
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/786/tg5b5.jpg

Edited by »bst at 19:23 CST, 11 January 2012

<< Comment #395 @ 05:42 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #385

Have you checked out E-blues products?

All that japanese shit has great designs except they might not know what gamers specifically want.

So i'd fucking copy their shit, and just readjust some stuff so they cant sue you, then add all the good suggestions on esreality and think up a sexy name and BING done son.

Check these pics..

http://www.e-blue.jp/2011/individual%20produc...ype-m.html

http://www.e-blue.jp/2011/individual%20product/Cobra%20jr.html

SO DAMN SEXY

<< Comment #398 @ 07:14 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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Ffleri - Reply to #395

loled hardly @ this guns, knives next to the mouse :D

actually I really like this pic/design: http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4558/tg5b1.jpg, side leds aren't that bad, I wish it was white.

I will really consider buying this mouse :)

Edited by Ffleri at 07:17 CST, 12 January 2012

<< Comment #405 @ 09:12 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #395

I know those mice look nice, but I don't really like the position of the side buttons... not sure what the quality is like either. I tried a mouse like that before and it had problems with the main buttons staying stuck down after they were clicked, which put me off :(

But still I think my mouse will look sexy, and going to have a sexy website too :)

<< Comment #411 @ 10:27 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #405

You should name it ' The Aurora'

since it can change lights n shit, and sounds awesome.

<< Comment #412 @ 10:30 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #411

Nice idea, thanks. I thought about Chameleon as well for the same reason hehe, think Aurora sounds cooler though :)

<< Comment #419 @ 17:05 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #412

Hirbaa

<< Comment #420 @ 17:21 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #419

haha nice xD

<< Comment #422 @ 17:46 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #420

it means chameleon ( just in case you didn't know) :D

<< Comment #427 @ 18:50 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #422

Hehe yeah, I saw this: http://www.amazon.com/Al-Hirbaa-Haira-Mixed-U...9776171060

xD

<< Comment #431 @ 01:13 CST, 13 January 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #427

A proper translation would be clueless chameleon but mixed up works too I guess :D

<< Comment #368 @ 11:46 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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tzawk

FINALLY a mouse with a near identical shape to my G3. With no right side button either. Love it! i've been waiting for a mouse to come out to replace my old G3 with and looks like this might be it.

Though i prefer a scroll wheel with rounded edges, but that's not a big deal. Materials/coating overall seems fine as well. It would be awesome if the sides/base were a grainy rubber material like the g3, but again, no big deal.

Kuddos on the mouse and gl.

<< Comment #371 @ 13:28 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #368

Thanks :)

See http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2208547#pid2208547 about the scroll wheel.

Might be able to add a rubber side grip in the package, so people have the choice to stick it on or not. Its something I have to talk to the factory about. It'd probably just be a bit of rubber with strong sticky back, which you can attach to the mouse. It wouldn't be really thick or anything, just a thin bit that sticks to both sides. I suppose its a bit ghetto but better than nothing ;D

Edited by »bst at 13:29 CST, 11 January 2012

<< Comment #374 @ 15:04 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #368

Decided to give the rubber sides a try, could only find some red rubber though :D

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/3865/1003830q.jpg
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/6738/1003833f.jpg
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/6909/1003832.jpg

They'd probably just be in black if I include them with the mouse.
Bit rough round the edges atm, and probably a bit thicker than they need to be. But feel alright :>

Edited by »bst at 15:05 CST, 11 January 2012

<< Comment #388 @ 21:05 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.109.111) - Reply to #374

where did you get that? ME NEED!

<< Comment #389 @ 21:11 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #388

It cut them out from a swimming cap, like this:
http://www.hatsideas.com/wp-content/uploads/2...g-Caps.jpg

I cut a strip out and stuck it to some double sided tape, then drew around templates and cut them out.

<< Comment #393 @ 02:00 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #389

i used the tennis racquet grip tape for my DA once, best material ever

<< Comment #403 @ 09:00 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #393

Aye I used that on my IMO 1.1 before ;) If I do it I'll try and make sure the rubber is extra grippy like that.

<< Comment #381 @ 18:48 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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tzawk - Reply to #374

In the end, i'd be fine with whatever scroll wheel you choose. i'm just more used to rounded ones is all.

Providing the rubber side grips would be very generous. It's more than what other companies are offering. Even if the final result is a bit ghetto looking, it wouldn't be that bad seeing as how it would just be an added optional bonus (as long as it doesnt drive the final price up too much anyway).

Agree, black is definitely the way to go XD.

Also, you may already know this, but keep in mind that you wont be able to please everybody.. dont let yourself get discouraged and just keep at it. ;)

<< Comment #383 @ 19:03 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #381

Thanks :) Yeah can't please everyone :)

Edited by »bst at 19:05 CST, 11 January 2012

<< Comment #373 @ 14:18 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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T1E

lol your mouse looks like your duel map now

<< Comment #375 @ 15:07 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #373

lol true. At least I have control over this actually becoming available though ;D

<< Comment #379 @ 18:38 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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Something

Looks cool :)

What price do you think it will retail at?

Also, what name(s) are you giving your product/brand?

<< Comment #382 @ 19:01 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #379

Price is TBA, its going to be as low as I can get it though. Its not going to be crazy money or 'expensive'. I don't think its going to be mega cheap either, the RRP is probably going to be somewhere inside 30-40 GBP inc VAT. Though you might find retailers will sell it for less. Depends if you pre-order or not though, being on ESR helps too (both of them can get you a discount) ;) so lots of factors regarding the price, but I'm going to really try with it. I want it to be affordable.

Don't know about the name yet. I've basically got a list I keep adding to, and domain name availability etc, and will choose one soon heh.

<< Comment #391 @ 01:50 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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Lorfa - Reply to #382

I got to this thread very late or I would have made some suggestions. I love the idea, but the biggest problem I have is the weight. I think to truly better the wmo you would need to reduce the weight considerably.

If you can think of some last minute solution (I'm assuming the mouse is already very far along in the process) to reduce the weight it would make it that much better.

<< Comment #392 @ 01:51 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #391

65g too heavy for you?

Answer: Gym.

Besides, the WMO is like 80g, so..

Edited by end0rphine at 01:53 CST, 12 January 2012

<< Comment #396 @ 06:12 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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Lorfa - Reply to #392

65g too heavy for you?

Actually yes. The salmosa is lighter than that actually.

Weight = friction, and imo it's an impediment to precise mouse operation. My wrist/elbow/arm already move smoothly, they don't need extra weight to steady them. Greater weight and friction makes it more difficult to make small movements and a lighter weight is conducive to operating the mouse at a greater variety of speeds.

<< Comment #399 @ 07:29 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #396

Again, gym.
Weight is really only a factor of how your body tolerates eccentric and concentric stretches. Do some plyometrics and strengthen motor recruitment with isometrics since if 65g is too heavy for you...

Edited by end0rphine at 07:33 CST, 12 January 2012

<< Comment #400 @ 08:31 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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Lorfa - Reply to #399

If you don't like light mice that's your opinion. It is easy to increase the weight of a mouse, but difficult to lighten it.

Weight is really only a factor of how your body tolerates eccentric and concentric stretches.

It is not "really only a factor", it is a factor, one of many.

Arm size/strength/weight != less friction from pad/mouse weight.

It has to do with impeding vs. not impeding the hand's natural motion.

Don't you find it odd that av3k uses a salmosa?

Edited by Lorfa at 08:33 CST, 12 January 2012

<< Comment #401 @ 08:52 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #400

I know what friction is, obviously this can't be changed
but what you're after really is ease of movement, hence the overcoming of an opposing force with another
Strength or recruitment of neurological components to contract muscles helps by way of isometric and plyometric exercises. It will give you a larger threshold of force to apply as well as help twitch muscles. Yes it is more difficult to lighten a mouse, but it's easier to gain strength.

<< Comment #428 @ 18:52 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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Lorfa - Reply to #401

I know what friction is, obviously this can't be changed

Yes it can. Both static and kinetic friction.

but what you're after really is ease of movement, hence the overcoming of an opposing force with another
Strength or recruitment of neurological components to contract muscles helps by way of isometric and plyometric exercises.

Using big words to say "get stronger, mouse lighter".

I think it is a much better strategy to decrease the necessary force than to increase the force exerted. Even if there are difficulties in getting a light mouse.

Just run this simple experiment, put your hand on your pad and just make some normal mouse motions and imagine you are playing your favorite fps game. Doesn't it feel natural? Don't you think you could hitscan really well that way? I do. No matter how strong you are you aren't going to achieve this feeling without the lightest possible instrument.

It will give you a larger threshold of force to apply as well as help twitch muscles.

This could be the case, but I'm not convinced. A stronger arm/hand/wrist should be able to move the mouse at a faster speed more easily, but not necessarily help you to move it at more slower speeds precisely. You can only add so much muscle to a precise articulation. Think of a really tiny female asian surgeon vs. an enormous buff guy surgeon. Which one has the greater precision? Not necessarily either.

Yes it is more difficult to lighten a mouse, but it's easier to gain strength.

Maybe so but I don't think these two actually have the same effect.

<< Comment #430 @ 20:09 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #428

Well personally I have been able to shift things a lot easier since hypertrophy training (not size), but I haven't really had problems moving the mouse to very minute movements - I guess my sensitivity is low enough. However I do use my whole arm, I'm guessing you use fingertip grip? I'll concede it's better to stick with what works for you in that regard.

Btw, "get stronger, mouse lighter" is abit of an oversimplification as strength training also emphasizes strengthening central nervous system motor functions and coordination, which is what that line meant.

Friction: re: obviously cannot be changed by strength training alone but yes can be changed with different contact materials.

<< Comment #407 @ 10:09 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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vedic - Reply to #396

What is the weight on a salmosa?

<< Comment #409 @ 10:21 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #407

55 grams without cable iirc

<< Comment #1003 @ 20:48 CDT, 17 April 2012 >>

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dek - Reply to #396

clicked wrong for + was gonna click reply... actually, u actually think the smoothness of the movement between the targets matters... you are so wrong buddy, what matters is the speed and the accuracy of the shots, not whats in between.

<< Comment #1004 @ 20:51 CDT, 17 April 2012 >>

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dek - Reply to #1003

light mouse matters for nimbleness, it increases speed, not about friction.

<< Comment #1005 @ 21:01 CDT, 17 April 2012 >>

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dek - Reply to #1004

while all these new gaming mice put in all this tech to beat new barriers of dpi and high resolution sensors, which is all bs for quake and fps in general, what matters is that the sensor can jump to 1 point to another in the fastest amount of time and that its presice and accurate. this is why the wmo sensor still is the best, its not about tracking speed as much as it is as being fast from a to b. all those sensors with dpi switches and adjustable polling rate just messes with the electronics and slows everything down... there used to be a time when there was problems when they implemented wheels on mice, it had some effect with the polling rate at first until they patched it and moved it over to usb... the best ball mouse was the 2 button ms mouse. the one without the wheel. if you are trying to replicate the wmo performance you have to take that into account, you cant be trying to build up a new type and get it close to it by having a sensor you think is ok on the paper. you have to build a shell for a sensor and not the other way around if you are going to try to make something better than it, im afraid you wont succeed with it and it will just be another mouse on the market, its basically how every other mouse is built, im happy for you if you manage to beat those other 50USD+ gaming mice on the market and that it brings something more to it... it wont be another wmo thats for sure, i have tried about every other mouse on the market and as soon as i get into adjustable dpi the mouse just cant keep up with the speed of the wmo, the wmo isnt great for its tracking powers or its smoothenss or weight, its that its accurate and fast, together with its shape and actual weight next to it it just becomes great.

<< Comment #1006 @ 21:15 CDT, 17 April 2012 >>

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dek - Reply to #1005

you have to get an electronic engineer to calculate how shit works so he can tell you straight on how it all works, most mice on the market are produced to sell with all its bells and whistles because thats what people believe in and think is what gives good performance for them, but the account of the greatness of the wmo is trashed, you are here and probably a gamer yourself, the wmo just works, but there is a reason, i believe it is about the least amount of parts, even the 3 button sidewinder did not have any mousehweel, maybe thats why it was great, i mean, when a mouse sensor acts how you think then you will automatically accepts its shape and weight no matter how it is, to me, all those super smooth mice doesnt bring me nothing when they aint got the speed, it has something to do with what you actually see and what you actually feel, its not about how great the sensor is between point a and b like i explained earlier, its about the shots and how fast it gets there, even if its jumps and flicks to the position you want doesnt matter as long as it gives up the shot in the right spot to place you wanted to hit, in the least amount of time. forget about tech on paper.

<< Comment #1007 @ 21:42 CDT, 17 April 2012 >>

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Lorfa - Reply to #1004

light mouse matters for nimbleness, it increases speed, not about friction.

Dry friction:

Ff=µFn

Ff is the force of friction exerted by each surface on the other. It is parallel to the surface, in a direction opposite to the net applied force.

µ is the coefficient of friction, which is an empirical property of the contacting materials

Fn is the Normal Force exerted by each surface on the other, directed perpendicular (normal) to the surface.

In the case of an object resting on a table, weight becomes the normal force.

Normal force Fn = weight = m*g

m is the mass (kg)
g is gravity, the local acceleration of free fall (m/s^2)

weight is in kg * (m/s)^2, also known as a Newton.

The greater the weight the greater the force of friction.

<< Comment #1008 @ 22:42 CDT, 17 April 2012 >>

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dek - Reply to #1007

we are controlling a peripheral after all lorfa, your theory and physics explanation goes in the way of sensing your way with your hand with no gear attached to it, there comes a place where you have no weight and next to no friction where you have no CONTROL over the peripheral you are controlling... you dont seem to get that, control means a great deal and the feedback of the gear you are holding in your hand, and its like i said, its not about everything between the shot that matters, its the shot and how you get there. i hate low friction for one, gives me no control and i dont care about how smooth and gazzillion of frames with superslick movement i have between the action, its the speed and control in how i get there that matters for me. and again, its a preference, i know alot of people are reliable of having super smooth movement with their lubed up mousefeet so they have confidence in that they dont have any friction to mess with their shots, i think they are missing the whole point and tactical play that quake requires in the first place. it gets to a place that you dont have to see anything, you just flick your mouse and get stuck on the right pixel and click your button, as fast as humanly possible. screw low friction and super smooth playback. you end up whining bot as soon as the guy hits you from impossible curves when you are trying to control your mouse on your super slick surface trying to track him down and align your shots.

<< Comment #1009 @ 22:44 CDT, 17 April 2012 >>

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dek - Reply to #1008

...with no control.

Edited by dek at 22:49 CDT, 17 April 2012

<< Comment #1010 @ 23:07 CDT, 17 April 2012 >>

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Lorfa - Reply to #1008

Friction is a hindrance to my control. My hand motion is already precise.

It's about removing the 'distance' from mind to game.

<< Comment #1011 @ 00:15 CDT, 18 April 2012 >>

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dek - Reply to #1010

friction is control

<< Comment #1353 @ 09:57 CDT, 3 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (76.105.193.129) - Reply to #1011

imo friction and weight serves the purpose of lowering "noise".

if your hand jitters ever so slightly and you don't like that, then added friction is good. it drowns out all this unintentional movement, and the cursor will only respond when you exert more force on the mouse (which should be intentional movements).

ideally i agree with lorfa's logic that friction and weight should be at a minimum for most precision/control. when people talk about friction being more appropriate for accuracy or control i think they should not be using phrases like "precision" or "accuracy", but more something like "steadiness".

however this doesn't mean that increased weight and/or friction is bad and that people who disagree are wrong. there is a certain amount of variance people are going to have. a *very* important factor to consider IMO is the actuation force required for the buttons -- the higher the force used to register a click, the more difficult it is going to be for the hand to keep the mouse where it is/where it is supposed to be. i actually think the desire for additional weight or friction comes from this more than it comes from people preferring more friction to simply move the mouse around. i really think most commercial mice (gaming or otherwise) have way too much force required for the mouse buttons (this is extra bad for me because i prefer a very short mouse, which means i will hold most mice "shallow" decreasing the leverage i'd have on the button...). i also think a contributing factor is low level nerve problems (carpal tunnel, etc), as the decreased nerve conduction does not just mean less strength but also less sensitivity, meaning that the increased sensation of a heavy mouse and the force required to move it would be more 'understandable'.

ultimately i think it is important for both precision/control and your health to use the lowest friction/resistance items you can acclimate yourself to or get your hands on. your fingers wouldn't get more dexterous if you taped pennies to them, would they?

<< Comment #1964 @ 09:27 CST, 31 January 2013 >>

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TheCat - Reply to #1008

Clearly you've never played more than an hour with low friction. That slippery feeling disappears quickly and the end result is you'll feel way more in control than before.

<< Comment #394 @ 05:12 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (89.69.98.232) - Reply to #391

You probably will be able to detach side buttons PCB with microswiches etc. and save ~5g :)

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5829/pb110017m.jpg

<< Comment #402 @ 08:57 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #391

Well I am getting a price on re-molding one of the parts of the mouse, which will allow a 4 button version, which will make it lighter because of no side buttons. The only other option is to make it 3 button, which would reduce weight even more, but mean no way to switch DPI (except in the software).

<< Comment #410 @ 10:27 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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vedic - Reply to #402

Do you have an estimate on weight for each scenario?

<< Comment #414 @ 10:55 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #410

If I take the side buttons off and the PCB out it weighs about 58g, hard to tell with the cable attached (mine will have a removable cable so can get more accurate weight then).

If I just do two versions, a 4 button and 6 button, then on the 4 button the top PCB can be DIY removed really easy if anyone wants it a bit lighter (its already removable in on this oem sample).

I just have to wait and see what the weight is, but I don't think adding an LED and a mcu is going to increase the weight that much.

<< Comment #421 @ 17:39 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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Lorfa - Reply to #414

This is very interesting. What would you say contributes most to the mouse weight?

Where is most of this weight located?

<< Comment #425 @ 18:33 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #421

Heaviest thing is the shell, then the main pcb, then the top pcb which has 3 switches on and a cable coming from it, then the side buttons, then the scroll wheel.

<< Comment #429 @ 18:58 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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Lorfa - Reply to #425

Wow, thanks for the response. Fascinating.

<< Comment #434 @ 19:41 CST, 13 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #429

Thought I'd mention, if you hate friction, try claw grip if you don't already, it produces a lot less friction than palming (because of the weight of you hand resting on the mouse).

<< Comment #386 @ 19:23 CST, 11 January 2012 >>

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veryOP

for the love of god, please, braided cord

<< Comment #397 @ 06:59 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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Something - Reply to #386

For the love of god, please, NO.

16%

<< Comment #404 @ 09:05 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #386

The cord I'm using is really good, a braided cord would be much more rigid and fray etc. So I really don't want to change it, even though braided cords do look more classy :D

<< Comment #406 @ 10:00 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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Demiurge - Reply to #404

yeah, if you're going to functionality over looks, better be consistent...

are you starting off with a Chinese OEM template and just modifying as you go? how many are you planning on making for the first batch, how are you going to sell them?

<< Comment #408 @ 10:19 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #406

Yep.

1) yes
2) probably 1000
3) On our own website store and in retailers, its got CE and FCC so can be sold in Europe and US retailers

Edited by »bst at 10:19 CST, 12 January 2012

<< Comment #413 @ 10:32 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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Six16 - Reply to #408

What about the warranty and repairs?

<< Comment #415 @ 11:01 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #413

I haven't discussed the warranty in depth with the factory yet, but in its terms will be very similar to the other popular mouse manufacturers.

The length of the warranty will be at least a year.

Edited by »bst at 18:47 CST, 12 January 2012

<< Comment #424 @ 18:22 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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kapca - Reply to #415

Just a friendly advice:
Never post publicly about your stuffz referring to your 'competition'; like anything is gonna be "very similar to r*****'s......" ;)

Edited by kapca at 18:49 CST, 12 January 2012

<< Comment #426 @ 18:47 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #424

Ok, thanks, I've changed it now :)

<< Comment #443 @ 06:19 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #408

Sweden would be good. :P

<< Comment #444 @ 06:57 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #443

Feel free to recommend any shops you'd like to see it in :)

<< Comment #497 @ 08:44 CST, 17 January 2012 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #444

Local computer retailers.
www.Microshop.se (2 shops), ..but the one in the city Umeå. :) (stocks many brands).
www.emsbutiken.com (1 shop)

BIG all-round local retailers:
www.Elgiganten.se (70 shops)
www.kjell.com (electronics only 57 shops)
www.Mediamarkt.se (europe wide 500 shops) also many brands (not visible on web yet).

Big web
www.komplett.se

Edited by Tobbe at 07:28 CST, 18 January 2012

<< Comment #501 @ 15:39 CST, 17 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #497

Thanks mate, noted!

<< Comment #504 @ 06:59 CST, 18 January 2012 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #501

added mediamarkt.

<< Comment #505 @ 08:00 CST, 18 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #504

Cool, thx :)

<< Comment #1965 @ 09:30 CST, 31 January 2013 >>

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TheCat - Reply to #444

One of the most popular gaming-centric shops is MaxFPS.se. Among other things, they're the only retailer I know of in Sweden who sell hyperglides.

<< Comment #416 @ 11:05 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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vedic

Are any other mice using these main button switches? How are they compared to your average razer mouse button? A huge advantage of Razer mice is that you can press the button equally well no matter where you press - is it comparable?

<< Comment #417 @ 12:27 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #416

It comes down to the design of the shell more than the switches, with regards to how much force is needed in different places.

If you push behind the line which is level with the DPI button, then the buttons won't engage (like the WMO where the line is on that), and just after that line towards the front of the mouse (up to about 3mm) its a little bit harder to press. But beyond that its the same (or very very similar) force required all over. Hope that makes sense :D

The D2F-01F has a very similar feel to the D2FC-F-7N as far as I know, I read something Thunda wrote about them once. I think the only major difference is they're higher quality (longer lasting) and made in Japan instead of China. They're not used on many mice, because they're more expensive.. There was a Kinzu ("red pro" version) which had them, it wasn't available in Europe/US afaik. You can see a pic of them here: http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/803343/211...-Box-.html

<< Comment #446 @ 09:32 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #416

I dont get your point. I can press anywhere on my wmo buttons and it will click.

<< Comment #467 @ 17:40 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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vedic - Reply to #446

Not all mice work that way. Razer mice require the same force to click anywhere, and many mice will be unclickable in some spots, or will require more force. Does your mouse work the same right near the base? At the very tip? Near the sides? If you have multiple mice, try it on all of them.

<< Comment #468 @ 17:48 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #467

ye I didnt read the first tiem. some definitely don't like mx518 and such.

<< Comment #418 @ 13:05 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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By

dansen

finally a worthy successor to my mx300 that died 2 years ago.

<< Comment #423 @ 18:19 CST, 12 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.109.111) - Reply to #418

w&s !

<< Comment #449 @ 11:00 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #418

I've ordered a Logitech RX250 which is the same shape as the G1 etc, I'll let you know how it compares in shape and take some pics for you when I get it :)

<< Comment #432 @ 05:35 CST, 13 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (71.163.19.98)

Seriously I just want this clear bottom and everything
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4558/tg5b1.jpg

<< Comment #433 @ 10:16 CST, 13 January 2012 >>

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»bst

Some news about including the optional attachable rubber side stickers (see: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2208597#pid2208597 ), and the mold change for the new scroll wheel and 4 button version:
"1.First we will make a handmade sample for your reference about the amended mold, if you think it is ok we will open mold for you! I will send the sample to you today or tomorrow!
2.About the side rubber we can do it for you, it is very easy!"

Its nice to hear something is very easy xD
I asked for the rubber in transparent and black btw.

Edited by »bst at 10:17 CST, 13 January 2012

<< Comment #438 @ 00:29 CST, 14 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (24.33.245.204) - Reply to #433

2. don't. keep it simple please. we beg for a real mouse successor of wmo. not another full bs rgb, dpi on the fly etc. keep it real.

<< Comment #439 @ 01:56 CST, 14 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #438

They're optional though, if you want more grip you can stick them on, if not just leave them in the box or throw them in the bin :D

Having an RGB LED increases the weight by like 0.1g, why not have it? Some people love that stuff. You can turn it off if you don't like it :)

DPI on the fly is just a function you can assign to a button, again its optional.

Edited by »bst at 02:04 CST, 14 January 2012

<< Comment #437 @ 00:28 CST, 14 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (90.61.237.58) - Reply to #433

just wanna share with you that i tested DA today and idd my thumb get on it pretty masively, i mean there is no space to put ur thumb on the sides appart if you put it at least half on the side buttons.

I though you wanted to creat an extreme performances mouse now i m a bit comfused

<< Comment #440 @ 02:03 CST, 14 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #437

Ok I'll explain better:
The mold change means there would be an improved scroll wheel and two versions of the mouse - one with side buttons (6 button mouse), and one without side buttons (4 button mouse).

The rubber sides are mostly for claw grip players, you can stick them on if you want to or leave them off.

<< Comment #435 @ 20:37 CST, 13 January 2012 >>

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function9 - Reply to #433

For the right price, just about anything is easy. :p

<< Comment #436 @ 22:27 CST, 13 January 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #433

you are a sick nerd baller

<< Comment #441 @ 02:11 CST, 14 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #436

Thanks :D

<< Comment #442 @ 06:55 CST, 14 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (24.33.245.204)

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4558/tg5b1.jpg
This is more than good! focus on the sensor part now!
(and the weight)
Please.

<< Comment #445 @ 08:31 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst

Just got the sample, literally 10 mins ago.

Tested it in quake, I think this sensor is fine so far, I can't get it to malfunction at all, even swiping it like a maniac (at sens 0.5, 1000 dpi). So think theres no harm in sticking with it, pending further testing anyway :)

I was a bit concerned about the 3050 sensor, because I tried a different mouse (xornet) with it in and it malfunctioned at fairly fast speeds, so I really don't know what they done wrong, because it seems like a really nice sensor in this mouse.

I'll put some pics up later on :)

Edited by »bst at 09:04 CST, 16 January 2012

<< Comment #450 @ 11:12 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #445

You should promote it kind of like 'Created by the master Quakers at ESREALITY'

Precision | Comfort | Speed

The greatest aimers in history have given their input in designing the next generation of pro gamer mouse.

Then show a clip of a nigga doing a 180 flick rail shot that is like pixel hitting and then close with fatality giving a thumbs up( steal that bitches photo or w/e)

then u done it easy.

After that host some 1v1 tournaments like zotac/jeesports and give the mouse to the winners.

Obviously if they like the mouse they will play on it. Imagine u trick strenx + other top quakers to use the mouse and they give good feedback.

ez son

<< Comment #451 @ 11:34 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #450

Yeah I want to do exactly that! :D its a good plan I think :)

<< Comment #447 @ 09:37 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #445

you should have a closed beta stage where you distribute several mice to good players and have them use it for a month or so before any sort of production start. these kinds of 10 min impressions aren't worth shit.

<< Comment #448 @ 09:50 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #447

Yeah I agree :)

Heres the pics, bear in mind some of it like the scroll wheel and scroll wheel hole are hand made atm. Also it was kind of rushed out because its the Chinese new year holiday starting now, for the next 12 days, so its an alpha / prototype and shouldn't be looked at as the final product :)

I can't change the LED settings atm because I don't have drivers, so its really limited in options atm, also the DPI button doesn't seem to be bound so its stuck at 1000DPI atm. They only really sent me this sample to test the new mold shape so theres things that aren't finished yet.

With lights:
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/776/p1160121.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3380/p1160111s.jpg

Without lights:
http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/3306/p1160110d.jpg
-----

Edited by »bst at 09:57 CST, 16 January 2012

<< Comment #457 @ 15:56 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #448

nice and all but I don't really see the edge this mouse has over the competition. it doesn't emulate any popular shape and it has the same sensor as few other mice out there. why exactly should I buy this instead of say zowie AM or abyssus?

<< Comment #459 @ 16:16 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #457

A lot of people like this size and shape because they used the mx300/g1/g3. Its also very similar to a WMO shape except the flared rear. Those are some of the most popular mice ever.

It will be cheaper and lighter than a Zowie AM (you could equally ask, that after this is out, why would you buy a Zowie AM? What will you get extra except more weight and more price?)

Neither Zowie AM or Abyssus have software config with onboard memory to store those settings from PC to PC. They only have basic config options in the form of switches on the mouse etc.

Its just another choice for people, if you happen to like the shape and the features, then buy it :) You can see in this thread that everything has been well thought out, so its not going to be any worse, performance wise, than the competition.

I don't expect everyone is going to like it and its going to blow everyone out of the water, I just think 'enough' people are going to like it to make it worthwhile. But yeah, maybe I'm wrong, that just part of the risk.

Thanks for your question, if you have any more feel free!

Edited by »bst at 16:23 CST, 16 January 2012

21%

<< Comment #464 @ 17:12 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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jstn - Reply to #459

You're very good at pointing out the benefits of your product without devolving into an obnoxious pitch-man. You'll go far. :)

<< Comment #466 @ 17:39 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #464

Thanks for the compliment and nice prediction, I really hope you are psychic :))))

<< Comment #492 @ 05:07 CST, 17 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #459

is that even the same mouse on the pictures?

because http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/3306/p1160110d.jpg does look a lot like mx300, the one on the pic you posted does not(http://www.esreality.com/files/placeimages/20...60121b.jpg). probably just the angle but the rear end looks different and it doesn't instantly connect with my notion of an mx300 shape, which is something I think is important when considering the average person's buying process.

Edited by tourist at 05:10 CST, 17 January 2012

<< Comment #493 @ 05:14 CST, 17 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #492

Looks like an mx300 to me. The shadows might be putting you off though.

<< Comment #494 @ 05:45 CST, 17 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #493

look at
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3380/p1160111s.jpg
http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/3306/p1160110d.jpg
and tell me thats the same mouse

<< Comment #495 @ 06:58 CST, 17 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #494

They look the same to me. It's definitely the angle of the photo though that might make one of the pics look to have a wider, elevated base.

Edited by end0rphine at 06:59 CST, 17 January 2012

<< Comment #496 @ 08:32 CST, 17 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #495

fucking angles.. how do they work

<< Comment #513 @ 08:27 CST, 20 January 2012 >>

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tbone - Reply to #494

Do you have serious spatial awareness problems? Would hate to see you drive.

<< Comment #515 @ 11:05 CST, 20 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #513

for the visually impaired:

p.s. no wonder you consider driving such a gargantuan task

Edited by tourist at 11:05 CST, 20 January 2012

<< Comment #560 @ 11:02 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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crea* - Reply to #515

it's the same mouse from a slightly different angle

<< Comment #565 @ 12:58 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #560

no it's not.

<< Comment #566 @ 14:14 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #565

Its just because different zoom levels are used, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_(photography)

<< Comment #567 @ 18:18 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #566

no.

<< Comment #568 @ 18:40 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #567

Calling bst a liar?

<< Comment #577 @ 05:17 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #568

yes.

<< Comment #502 @ 15:41 CST, 17 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #492

They are the same mouse :) As end0rphine says, its just the shadows, angles, camera lens, etc that causes it. I'll take some better pics soon.

<< Comment #507 @ 17:34 CST, 18 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #502

just use the smaller shell kthx

<< Comment #508 @ 02:50 CST, 19 January 2012 >>

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stripy ' - Reply to #459

very nice answer [+]

<< Comment #534 @ 08:10 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #508

yea especially when you post the pics of two different shells.

<< Comment #694 @ 14:14 CST, 1 February 2012 >>

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Twisp. - Reply to #534

It isnt, compare the size of the dots(on the mouspad) to the size of the mouse on both pictures.

<< Comment #695 @ 14:30 CST, 1 February 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #694

why ruin tho

<< Comment #458 @ 16:02 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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duumed - Reply to #448

looking good

<< Comment #460 @ 16:21 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #458

Thanks :D

<< Comment #476 @ 19:16 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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winz - Reply to #448

If you are doing that closed beta stage anytime soon, I'd be happy to do it, even if that means paying for it. Can't wait to try it out.

<< Comment #483 @ 20:22 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #476

Everyone who has asked I will definitely keep note of for when the time comes :) I wish I could tell you more but I haven't got all of the information myself, so don't want to land myself in it by making promises I can't keep.

<< Comment #490 @ 00:16 CST, 17 January 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #483

me too :>

<< Comment #498 @ 08:45 CST, 17 January 2012 >>

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Lorfa - Reply to #483

No doubt you will have plenty, but I'll put my vote in. I've got a box full of mice and I'm fascinated by the technical aspect of making a mouse. I often fantasize about making a mouse myself.

<< Comment #557 @ 09:44 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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Bob - Reply to #448

.

Edited by Bob at 20:56 CDT, 27 June 2024

<< Comment #558 @ 10:47 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #557

Nope, its in China.

<< Comment #563 @ 12:20 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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Bob - Reply to #558

.

Edited by Bob at 20:56 CDT, 27 June 2024

<< Comment #564 @ 12:34 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #563

Its assembled in the factory, when I get it, its in a box and fully made. Not going to say where they are :)

<< Comment #571 @ 00:46 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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Bob - Reply to #564

.

Edited by Bob at 20:56 CDT, 27 June 2024

<< Comment #579 @ 07:43 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #571

Because then it wouldn't be that hard to find out the factory.

<< Comment #586 @ 10:59 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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Bob - Reply to #579

.

Edited by Bob at 20:56 CDT, 27 June 2024

<< Comment #588 @ 11:23 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #586

Well, I am in Essex in the UK. But I don't want to say what city the factory is in China, because I don't want anyone knowing exactly where they're made, because it can cause problems.

<< Comment #591 @ 13:17 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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Bullveyr - Reply to #588

For someone "from the business" it wouldn't be that hard to find out, not that it matters. ;)

<< Comment #592 @ 13:21 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #591

Yeah I know, but I'm just not going to make it easier :)

<< Comment #452 @ 11:39 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst

I just tested the speed of sensor with Enotus mouse test, while running quake live (using raw input), shooting some bots and moving the mouse as fast as I could. Result was 4m/s, maybe I can get more out of it, but thats basically the 160 IPS limit avago stated so, I am very happy with that!

Pic:
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/4954/mousetest.jpg

Edit: Btw this was on a Puretrak Talent, will test other pads soon.

Edited by »bst at 14:03 CST, 16 January 2012

<< Comment #461 @ 16:51 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #452

Hows the LOD?

<< Comment #462 @ 17:09 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #461

The LOD is pretty high atm, about 4mm, but theres a few ways it can be lowered by the factory. I just didn't want to mess with it too much on the first one. I'm just using the tape trick atm, thats what I got the 4m/s score with as well, so doesn't seem to affect performance. But its alright, it won't be released with a high lod :)

<< Comment #453 @ 15:06 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (208.54.35.225)

http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/3306/p1160110d.jpg
It s a beauty!
Did you weight it yet?

<< Comment #454 @ 15:16 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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Ffleri - Reply to #453

Yeah, without lights it's really nice! But anyways I think cord should be more full, not that stripes...

Just pointing that an old school, simple mice are the best looking mice that exist.

<< Comment #455 @ 15:21 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #454

Thanks. Btw that cord is just made like that, I think the stripes are part of what makes it less rigid, so its not really there for style, but for function :)

<< Comment #473 @ 19:12 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #455

the mouse looks pretty baller but could use an insignia on the palm part also

something slick and colorful to let people know it is not just a generic mouse, but a brand of awesome that they are buying.

And don't try to rip off like razer or anybody, make it fresh and interesting to look at. Pricing good stuff cheaply only works for food and garbage stuff, for electronics people tend to buy the brandname product unless you have enough style in your product to make ppl go 'oh snap this looks boss, ill get this instead'

(this is how i bought a fucked up mp3 player instead of apple, way back when, mofos)

Your company has to scream 'up and coming juggernaut, don't fuck with me, you'll want to buy stock in my shit soon'

BTW your mouse looks big and boss and with the lines.. you could incidentally call it 'The Juggernaut' by Aurora (company name) or vice versa

good luck mang

<< Comment #479 @ 19:53 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #473

I made a logo, its sort of an armoured/mech owl face that looks evil, like hes going to sink his claws into your chest and rip your face off in one peck. Like this: http://youtu.be/WJJX2-hehcc

I like owls, they're known to be wise, they don't take any shit, they're ultra cool, and they're amazing hunters (of mice). They do everything like a boss! ;) Does anyone NOT like owls?

Look at them!
http://youtu.be/6RuZ9ZXvUts
http://youtu.be/BvohRf-f5ZM
http://youtu.be/cMMdi6PDf_w
http://youtu.be/PUUAVX7b5Ts
http://youtu.be/6TCrDX_6n3o
http://youtu.be/Ajc6xr6mNeY
http://youtu.be/gFwgblszf6s

Btw, thanks for all your ideas, I really like them, you got a great imagination :)

Edited by »bst at 20:24 CST, 16 January 2012

<< Comment #506 @ 08:06 CST, 18 January 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #479

OWLS <3

M I K H L A B
I
K
H
L
A
B

B O O M A
O
O
M
A

<< Comment #650 @ 18:37 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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Harps - Reply to #479

It's a shame Razer already have a product named Talon! Although continuing on the owl theme, my suggestion in the hat would be to name the mouse Strix, after the genus of owl.

The replies you've posted here have been great to read, very informative. Best wishes on making this a success.

Edited by Harps at 18:46 CST, 30 January 2012

<< Comment #667 @ 10:35 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #650

Thanks for the nice comment, and the name suggestion :)

<< Comment #456 @ 15:46 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #453

Yeah its 65g give or take (scales read between 64-66):
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7481/weightc.jpg

<< Comment #463 @ 17:12 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (89.69.98.232)

Test this mouse on many different mouse pads. Also remember that with 1mm feet sensor will eventually have to operate out of focus cuz its only + - 0.2mm margin, i mean try to test it with and without feet.

Any signs of jitter on higher DPIs?

Like it so far :)

<< Comment #465 @ 17:32 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #463

Yeah thats very true, the mouse feet should be 0.5mm, but that introduces a fair amount of friction as they aren't thick enough to stop the bottom of the mouse from making contact with the mouse mat. So its a trade off.

I will include some 0.5mm feet in the box though, if people want to change to them, along with replacement 1mm and 0.5mm feet.

Heres a shot in paint with 1mm feet:
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/746/painttest.jpg
I think thats not bad for 1000DPI, but I will try the 0.5mm feet soon. Just want to play a bit more with this mouse before I mess with the feet, as I am really enjoying it atm xD I played for over 2 months with the OEM sample with budget sensor and huge prediction just to make sure the shape is nice, so I've really missed a nice sensor lol

I can't try higher DPIs at the moment, its stuck on 1000DPI, because the software to change DPI isn't finished yet (this sample was given to me early to approve a mold change, so its actually probably best described as pre-alpha). 1000 DPI is the default DPI of the 3050 sensor btw.

Edited by »bst at 17:42 CST, 16 January 2012

<< Comment #469 @ 18:06 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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By

z4t01

if the sensor performs at least as well as my abyssus, i'd like to get this mouse. it looks good, and i'd like to support this BST guy because i like what he's doing.

you should certainly include my name in the list of beta testers. i don't play quake live much anymore, but i am damn good at quakeworld and i really love getting free stuff. :D

<< Comment #482 @ 20:08 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #469

Thanks mate. Not sure how I'm going to select the beta testers yet, but yeah they will have to have some kind of good history/reputation/skill/knowledge etc. There aren't going to be a huge amount of beta testers, so everything counts. To sum it up, an ideal beta tester has something about them which preferably exceeds my knowledge or skill, be it in gaming or in technical know how, and also be of good trustworthy personality (and preferably known by me at least to some degree). Its nothing personal or anything, just a flow chart of best practice really. I'm sure I could miss a lot of decent beta testers this way. but it also is the best way to ensure only good ones get in.

<< Comment #484 @ 20:29 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #482

Clearly I'm the best candidate, as I know more than you about everything, and am also your best friend.

<< Comment #486 @ 20:38 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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By

»bst - Reply to #484

Is this opposites day or something? :)

<< Comment #488 @ 20:49 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #486

Maybe :o

<< Comment #491 @ 01:04 CST, 17 January 2012 >>

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By

toggl - Reply to #486

I SHOOT 45 LG EVERYDAY

CAN I TEST PLZ

<< Comment #500 @ 11:26 CST, 17 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #491

Fuck uff D:<

<< Comment #489 @ 22:54 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #482

I nominate Derp and Skylit of overclock mouse forums.

<< Comment #470 @ 18:36 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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By

function9

It's not a big deal, but I know you mentioned about a remold for a 4 button version. So, would it be possible to get the top shell so it's one piece/without those grooves? Or are they only redoing that top side piece where the buttons would be?

<< Comment #472 @ 19:11 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.52.90) - Reply to #470

+ put the extra buttons around scrolwheel, not on the sides plzzz

<< Comment #475 @ 19:16 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #472

Just in case you don't know, the 4 button version doesn't have any buttons on the sides. Like the smoothing out of the shell, its a lot of work to add extra buttons on the top. The 4 button one basically removes the two side buttons and leaves the DPI button thats already there on top (which you can bind to anything you want).

<< Comment #474 @ 19:12 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #470

Not really, ofc anything is possible, but it would be a lot of work. Its hard to explain really, but the way it works kind of relies on how its put together. This pic should explain it better than I can (the part in the middle is one piece, which is the part which is being adjusted):
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7515/p1170145e.jpg

Edited by »bst at 19:17 CST, 16 January 2012

<< Comment #487 @ 20:41 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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By

function9 - Reply to #474

Ah, thanks for the pic. Yeah the way it's put together would be a lot of work to change it to one piece. Wasn't sure previously if those were indeed separate parts or not. No worries though! :D

<< Comment #471 @ 19:05 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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By

KittenIgnition

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ0QlSCvt0s

It's not working :@

<< Comment #477 @ 19:21 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #471

lol :DDD
Put it in the vents at the back, it turns into a nice room heater!!!! ;)

Edited by »bst at 19:23 CST, 16 January 2012

<< Comment #478 @ 19:28 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #477

Not worth $30 :(

<< Comment #480 @ 19:55 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #478

It might be if you film it and it goes viral, and you get loads of ad money, and end up in the news and stuff. Alright maybe not :<

<< Comment #481 @ 20:05 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #480

Yeah, exactly :(

Anyway, you should let me pay now/in a couple days, and then test each version!

<< Comment #485 @ 20:35 CST, 16 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #481

See: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2210530#pid2210530
:)

<< Comment #499 @ 10:38 CST, 17 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.52.90) - Reply to #471

awesome x)

<< Comment #503 @ 16:41 CST, 17 January 2012 >>

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Plaisi - Reply to #471

"NOTHING IS HAPPENIIIING"

<< Comment #509 @ 13:30 CST, 19 January 2012 >>

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By

pet_cia_mole

If everything goes according to plan, how long will your mouse be available for the consumers?

<< Comment #510 @ 19:42 CST, 19 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #509

For all eternity.

<< Comment #511 @ 22:17 CST, 19 January 2012 >>

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pet_cia_mole - Reply to #510

:-3

<< Comment #512 @ 07:16 CST, 20 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #509

It will be available for as long as it sells well enough, so if it goes to plan, then it will be available for years.

<< Comment #519 @ 16:29 CST, 20 January 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #512

damn, my old mouse is dying, could really use a prototype sex machine mouse as a replacement, just need someone to send me one

i wonder who

*winks*

<< Comment #514 @ 10:56 CST, 20 January 2012 >>

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By

cookye

do want

<< Comment #516 @ 12:22 CST, 20 January 2012 >>

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By

Nuked User

* N U K E D *

<< Comment #523 @ 21:04 CST, 20 January 2012 >>

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spamerio - Reply to #516

a lot of ip addresses out in the open in this thread, just what I was looking for!

<< Comment #527 @ 03:29 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #516

I bought a Logitech RX250 (same shape as mx300) the other day to compare it with, I'll take some comparison shots soon. They feel really similar.

Edit: forgot to say I have a QCK+ which as far as I know has the same surface as the QCK heavy, so yes it will be tested on that surface :)

Edited by »bst at 03:37 CST, 21 January 2012

<< Comment #517 @ 12:51 CST, 20 January 2012 >>

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By

KittenIgnition

http://kitteh.maverickservers.com/images/DSCI0986.JPG

hee hee

Just thought I'd follow up my money throwing thing with a shitty picture like this 8D

Balance left: $6.28

<< Comment #532 @ 04:05 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #517

Lol :D
Btw, what aren't you sure about? Got curious seeing that note paper with the writing on xD

<< Comment #535 @ 11:06 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #532

When was I not sure about something?

<< Comment #537 @ 19:08 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #535

I'm talking about the note in the top right of that pic ;D being nosy :D lol

<< Comment #538 @ 19:28 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #537

LOOL

A while ago, I had an idea for abusing FOV in QL and Q3, but it was before I got my iPod, so I wrote it on a piece of paper and ended up losing it on my desk. I still haven't tested my theory :P

<< Comment #541 @ 20:07 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #538

I might be able to help pm me .( I script way too much )

<< Comment #542 @ 21:41 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #541

Naw, it's simple enough for me to do on my own, I'm just too lazy to.

<< Comment #551 @ 01:45 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #542

can you at least tell me what it is?

<< Comment #554 @ 07:50 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #551

It's a way to increase your vertical fov.

<< Comment #569 @ 19:25 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #554

o.o

<< Comment #570 @ 19:27 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #569

Yeah, it's really weird.

<< Comment #1536 @ 00:41 CDT, 12 September 2012 >>

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archalias - Reply to #570

So, what kind of MINI Cooper do you drive? LOL

<< Comment #1541 @ 11:44 CDT, 12 September 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1536

wut

<< Comment #518 @ 14:59 CST, 20 January 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (213.164.121.57)

I wonder how is this mouse for fingertip grip? I guess it should be OK, my only concern is that it seems kind of "long". And with fingertip grip I like to grip the mouse with my thumb from one side, so I'm wondering if smooth side will allow for good grip or my thumb will slide around.

For fingertip grip I like mice that are:

- light and really small
- short (so the back of the mouse doesn't touch my palm as I move it).
- high enough, with side buttons above the thumb grip (since fingertip grip users hold it with their thumbs); actually, your prototype seems to meet this very well.
- preferably a thumb grip on the side, with a indentation in the surface so your thumb can be secured there.

Does anyone here like the look of this shape?...

http://www.lilireviews.com/wp-content/uploads...ret-05.jpg
http://www.lilireviews.com/wp-content/uploads...ret-11.jpg
http://www.revoltec.net/revoltec.net/data/med...e137_m.jpg

I'm probably buying your product regardless (provided it can be delivered here), but maybe if it goes well you'll release a "mini" gaming mouse sometime :)

<< Comment #520 @ 17:29 CST, 20 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #518

eww puretrak valor shape. Very bad.

<< Comment #526 @ 03:28 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #518

I find this mouse quite nice for fingertip, the back is quite nice for it (kind of hard to explain why, its just not very obstructive).
Btw, there will probably be some rubber side grips either already stuck on or in the box so you can stick them on :)

<< Comment #521 @ 19:15 CST, 20 January 2012 >>

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By

megaman3

my only concern is that it might be too tall, considering that you say it's taller than a WMO.

<< Comment #528 @ 03:40 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #521

Can't remember where I said that, can you link me to it please?
I think I remember saying it was about 1mm taller at most. But I was referring to the maximum height. But I think this mouse feels a little lower than the WMO, because it has more of a curved top. But I am talking such small measurements, in a blind test its hard to tell any difference in the height.

<< Comment #522 @ 19:20 CST, 20 January 2012 >>

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By

megaman3

also, why should we get this instead of an abyssus? It's basically the same thing for the same price, made by a known company in which warranties are not a problem, it's comfortable and performs well.

that mouse is not close to perfection by any means (build quality, sensor problems after a while even if cleaned, stupid led light going straight into your eye, no 400dpi nor 500hz option), but it'll be though to surpass.

there are plenty of alternatives in the form of other gaming and desktop mice so what's your selling point?

also, do you think it'll be better than the WMO?. I don't think that mouse will be topped considering it's price, reliability (can out live us if you fix cord problems that appear after more than 8 years of usage) and performance in fast paced fps games. IMHO it can only be topped by using better quality materials.

Edited by -=AvengeR=- at 19:33 CST, 20 January 2012

<< Comment #529 @ 03:55 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #522

See: http://www.esreality.com/?a=editpost&id=2210469

Also to add to that, some people don't like the way the abyssus main buttons aren't enclosed on the sides, as the harder they grip, the harder it is to press the buttons. Thats what I've heard some people say anyway.

Better is too subjective really, I prefer my mouse over the WMO and abyssus any day :) But like I said in the other post, I don't think it will be any worse, and will have more options and features.

<< Comment #533 @ 06:43 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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Ffleri - Reply to #522

It's lighter, it doesn't have sensor jitters, shape is better.

<< Comment #524 @ 00:04 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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By

z4t01

the shape is irrelevant to the sensor quality for me. if this mouse will perform better than my abyssus i will use it.

<< Comment #531 @ 04:04 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #524

In what way would you consider better? (just for clarification)

<< Comment #525 @ 01:21 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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By

gisele

I still use an MX300. Your mouse kinda turns me on (I am always in the market for a back-up mouse)...but the weight. =\

I really don't see the difference between your mouse and Kinzu. MX300 is MX300 because its heavy, you can slam the shit out of it, and your accuracy never fails (well, not because of the mouse anyway ;)

Great effort, and your enthusiasm about the product is quite fetching...so, can I pay extra for a heavier version? Please? ;)))

<< Comment #530 @ 04:03 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #525

I don't think the Kinzu sensor is as good as the sensor on this mouse (avago 3050), I got 4.15m/s max speed the other day, and that was pretty much because I couldn't move it any faster than that, lol.

Tbh theres not a huge difference between the Razer Krait and the Kinzu, and the Krait is ancient. Yeah there are differences but when it comes down to it, not massive ones. But the Kinzu still sells... :) Same with the Salmosa and Abyssus etc etc.

There is a slot for weights inside the mouse, which can be screwed in, they were in the first sample I got. They are 30 grams in total, which makes the mouse about 95 grams. I can probably sell them on the website for not much, but will void your warranty if you install them, but you know the drill :)

<< Comment #540 @ 20:05 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #530

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 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<< Comment #543 @ 21:47 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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By

gisele - Reply to #530

I don't, actually. I gave my Kinzu (not a fan of their products) and G3 (too light as well) away. Rather not play engineer irl, when I can just wait and buy a mouse that fits.

Thanks for the detailed response. I will stick with purchasing g100 from Asia, gl with your mouse endeavours!

P.S. - If you have an MX300 in your possession, is it for sale? :)))

Also, any plans to display/show your mice at Qcon?

Edited by gisele at 22:28 CST, 21 January 2012

<< Comment #549 @ 01:00 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #543

Sorry I don't have an MX300, I have an RX250 which is the same shape (but its not a good gaming mouse).

Not planning on going to Quakecon atm, maybe later :)

<< Comment #550 @ 01:34 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #543

kinzu still going strong and raping cpm newbs!

<< Comment #556 @ 09:31 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #530

The Kinzu's sensor might not have been all that bad if steelseries took the firmware seriously.

What surfaces besides the talent have you tried your mouse on? Enotus isn't really the best testing methodology for this specific sensor.

Also, would you mind posting tracking pics? @1000/2000?

<< Comment #559 @ 10:55 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #556

See: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2210491#pid2210491

I've tested it on qck+, taito, qpad ct, mantis control as well.

Do you know any good programs I can use to test it besides enotus? I saw one that used a music creation program or something like that, looked a bit more in depth.

<< Comment #546 @ 00:32 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.52.90) - Reply to #525

id definitly rob ur mx300 !!

<< Comment #561 @ 11:07 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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crea* - Reply to #525

mx300 has a removable weight inside so it can be either heavy or lightweight

<< Comment #536 @ 18:42 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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lesterchaos

bst, when will this mouse be available for purchase (don't need exact date, just an estimate)?

<< Comment #539 @ 19:29 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #536

Fucking read, plz. I read the whole thread, and you're lucky I'm here to tell you that it's in the last TWENTY FUCKING POSTS. Seriously...

<< Comment #544 @ 22:23 CST, 21 January 2012 >>

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gisele

Or instead of being a complete douche, you could just tell him.

"Around end of February / early March I reckon, this is my first mouse though so its hard to be really precise at this stage. But as soon as I can give a proper release date I will."

<< Comment #545 @ 00:32 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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lesterchaos - Reply to #544

Thanks gisele! I'm glad to hear that the release won't be too distant.

and to KittenIgnition: I'll read the thread when I have time. No need to be angry.

<< Comment #547 @ 00:39 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #545

I think we just feel guilty that bst has taken so much time to respond to every question, especially when the question has been asked numerous times already.

<< Comment #548 @ 00:54 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #547

Its my own fault though really, I should have put it in the 1st post :D
Edit: have done that now ;)

Edited by »bst at 00:57 CST, 22 January 2012

<< Comment #555 @ 08:12 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #544

1. learn to reply lol!
2. he needs to learn to read
3. i am a douche live with it!

<< Comment #552 @ 05:59 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (124.185.12.95)

What about the G9 scroll wheel? I always liked the feature where it would endlessly scroll until you put your finger on it again.

<< Comment #553 @ 07:01 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #552

Can't be done, it won't fit, also I think its only available to logitech, sorry.

<< Comment #562 @ 11:10 CST, 22 January 2012 >>

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crea* - Reply to #552

true that's one major plus with the G9(x)! you know of any other mice using such a mousewheel?

Edited by crea* at 11:11 CST, 22 January 2012

<< Comment #574 @ 02:05 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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wtb!! =]

could you attach a picture of the bottom side of the latest version of the mouse, so we can see the placement of the sensor/lens?
(apologies if it has been posted before, i went through the whole thread and couldnt find it.)

thank you!

<< Comment #580 @ 08:15 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #574

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6949/p1230165m.jpg

<< Comment #582 @ 08:23 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #580

:3

<< Comment #612 @ 09:28 CST, 25 January 2012 >>

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azxx - Reply to #580

are those mouse feet similar to the MS 3.0/1.1/WMO? if they're not, that's something to consider since it'll make replacing them much easier.

<< Comment #668 @ 10:38 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #612

I don't think they are like any feet, the closest match though is IME 4.0. But there will be replacement feet in the box too, and I'll try and sell them separately as well.

<< Comment #689 @ 11:46 CST, 1 February 2012 >>

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azxx - Reply to #668

won't it be easier for you if they are similar to the feet I mentioned instead? especially since they're so widely available from many companies.

<< Comment #690 @ 12:22 CST, 1 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #689

Not really, if I was starting it from a brand new design, then yeah I would use a common mouse feet size, but atm that part is already designed and the mold is made, so its expensive to change it. Its a lot easier to add to plastic, but to remove it is hard (and that would be needed).

Heres a pic of a random mouse mold so you know what I mean:
http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/256901311/co...e_mold.jpg

So adding plastic is easy, you just carve away at the bit where you want more, but you can see the metal for the mouse feet are raised, so you can only make them smaller (by cutting away at them), and in this case they need to be enlarged, so it means adding metal, which is really unreliable due to the high pressures involved, so its best to make a whole new mold, which costs a lot of money = not worth it for mouse feet.

<< Comment #573 @ 02:05 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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bfsan

I would like ot add a few things:

1. Please let the buttons extend all the way to the edges, like the wmo.

2. Let the buttons be VERY easy to press down.

3. Remove all extra stuff from the mouse that adds weight. No side buttons, etc.

4. Remove anything that can be removed to reduce weight (sorry for repeating it)

5. Make the mouse as small as possible

<< Comment #576 @ 05:09 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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toop - Reply to #573

'5. Make the mouse as small as possible'

http://www.photoshoppix.com/modules/coppermin..._mouse.jpg

<< Comment #578 @ 06:49 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (124.185.12.95) - Reply to #573

I don't think adding side buttons, LED and a logo is a bad idea like some people have said. This guy is trying to sell his mouse for the mass market so these things are useful. He also already said he might release a different version of the mouse with no side buttons.

<< Comment #583 @ 08:27 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #573

1. Some people don't like that, because the harder you grip the sides (and depending where you grip), it can cause the buttons to be harder to push, because of fingers in the way and/or pushing on the side of the buttons.

2. They are :) (but not so easy that it causes accidental presses)

3 & 4. Working on that, though there isn't much that can be done to make it significantly lighter. There should be a version without side buttons though.

5. I think its a nice size atm, should suit many different sized hands and grip (its not so easy to change anyway, would mean a whole new mold).

<< Comment #767 @ 08:32 CST, 16 February 2012 >>

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bfsan - Reply to #583

I wrote:
>Please let the buttons extend all the way to the edges, like the wmo.

Bst replied:
>Some people don't like that, because the harder you grip the sides (and depending where you grip), it can
>cause the buttons to be harder to push, because of fingers in the way and/or pushing on the side of the buttons.

On the wmo/intelli it is as easy to click at the extreme side of the button, as it is when you press the middle of the button.

I have experienced that when I use a mouse, where the buttons do not extend all the way to the edge, that I press the edge, and nothing happens. That's worse than having another finger in the way ... which has NEVER happened to me anyway.

Edited by bfsan at 09:31 CST, 17 February 2012

<< Comment #770 @ 08:56 CST, 16 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #767

Ok I see what you mean, but its not going to change, sorry :(

At least the front of the buttons extends all the way to the edge :D I find it annoying when theres a ridge at the front, but the sides I quite like there to be a ridge. Can't please everyone with one mouse unfortunately.

By the way, in the top right of my post is the reply button, its best to use it, it keeps discussions together so they're easier to follow.

Edited by »bst at 08:57 CST, 16 February 2012

<< Comment #771 @ 10:24 CST, 16 February 2012 >>

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Anonymous (62.143.14.82) - Reply to #770

hey, what about a option to disable / enable mouse prediction?

yeah i know most esr ppl hate prediction, but for some games is a good function ( RtCW/ET )

<< Comment #775 @ 01:30 CST, 17 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #771

I'll look into it :D

<< Comment #780 @ 09:34 CST, 17 February 2012 >>

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bfsan - Reply to #770

bst wrote:
>By the way, in the top right of my post is the reply button, its best to
>use it, it keeps discussions together so they're easier to follow.

Sorry, no javascript here.

It is not possible to edit the reply to field, so I have to post, then change the field. I tried enabling the input with the web-developer console and then submitting, but that didnt help either. And my first posts didnt show up immediately so I could fix it.

If you look at my posts, you will see that I have fixed them all wrt linking.

Edited by bfsan at 09:36 CST, 17 February 2012

<< Comment #784 @ 12:07 CST, 17 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #780

Ah ok, makes sense :)
Sorry I thought you just hadn't noticed it.

<< Comment #597 @ 06:40 CST, 24 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #573

yea the sidebuttons really add a ton of weight. numbnuts.

Edited by tourist at 06:41 CST, 24 January 2012

<< Comment #572 @ 02:04 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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bfsan

And I forgot:

Please make it possible to move the mouse at least as fast as you can move the wmo / intelli 3.0

<< Comment #575 @ 02:28 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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tbone - Reply to #572

gj reading the thread.

<< Comment #581 @ 08:18 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #572

Heres another speed test showing 4.15m/s:
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/358/mousetest2.jpg

<< Comment #584 @ 09:14 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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Derp - Reply to #581

Have you already included a paint image demonstrating the tracking quality at each CPI setting? If not then please do so if you have time.

I apologize if you already have, ESR's forum design and replies aren't exactly user friendly.

<< Comment #585 @ 09:17 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #584

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/746/painttest.jpg
Just at 1000dpi atm

<< Comment #605 @ 01:58 CST, 25 January 2012 >>

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Lorfa - Reply to #585

Probably should save as bmp or tga or some other more lossless format. Otherwise the .jpg like adds these "halos" to the lines, makes it more difficult to see how straight/not-straight the line is.

<< Comment #587 @ 11:11 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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crea* - Reply to #581

but did you really set exact 1000 dpi? you can also check that with enotus by measuring 10 cm and NOT let go of the left mouse button (I do that a few times and take the average to minimize measuring fault).

Backround is, if you let go of left mouse button, enotus will round very horribly :/ Then the max. tracking speed is also wrong by that error margin.
I had a look at the python source code once (available on authors page) in an attempt to maybe fix the rounding but it was more or less gibberish to me.

I am still hoping some programmer will fix it some day

<< Comment #589 @ 11:39 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #587

Ok, this time I measured 1000 DPI exactly (so it went to 1000 DPI without releasing the left mouse button, so there was no rounding).
Also I tried harder to move the mouse even faster.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/204/mousetest3.jpg

I found out that when I measure it with the ruler it comes out to about 990 DPI and then it rounds to 1000. But the above test was done by moving the mouse until it hit 1000 DPI without a ruler.

Edited by »bst at 11:39 CST, 23 January 2012

<< Comment #593 @ 17:42 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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crea* - Reply to #589

problem is enotus rounds in steps of 200 iirc, the only way to make the program exact would be to rewrite/correct that part...

anyways with 10 dpi less the error is probably pretty low, so very nice results.

Edited by crea* at 18:03 CST, 23 January 2012

<< Comment #609 @ 08:53 CST, 25 January 2012 >>

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Lorfa - Reply to #593

200 or 20?

<< Comment #610 @ 09:10 CST, 25 January 2012 >>

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crea* - Reply to #609

200. So the maximum error is 99 dpi, but I don't think the rounding is necessary at least not that big a margin.

<< Comment #616 @ 12:44 CST, 28 January 2012 >>

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nexu - Reply to #581

I'm not using a wmo or intelli 3.0. But I'm using a DeathAdder 3G 1800dpi (v3) @ 1800dpi/1000hz polling/default driver sensitivity.

And I'm hitting 6.3 m/s doing my usual 360 degree swipe over the mouse pad (Goliathus Alpha speed).
This generally means I cannot use a proper sensitivity for me (to snap on targets and track them) if the game is using WM_MOUSEMOVE input method. Even at low DPI settings (450dpi) I keep getting negative acceleration doing a simple 180 turn. I need Raw input support to avoid blatantly noticeable negative acceleration.

Would the mouse you're designing remedy this problem for me?

Btw, how about making the physical side button configuration of the mouse hardware wise customizable? One without any side buttons, one with a single side button and one with 2 side buttons. I really like having the 2 side buttons for my thumb on the DA. But I can imagine some players rather not have them.

<< Comment #617 @ 14:18 CST, 28 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #616

No I don't think it would remedy it for you, because I think you're going beyond the limits of WM_MOUSEMOVE. I don't think any mouse can fix it for you, as far as I know, it happens because the windows mouse pointer hits the edge of the screen (even though you can't see it) when you move the mouse really fast, which is what causes the negative accel.

Its hard to do the thing with the side buttons you mentioned, on this mouse, but if I ever do a new mold then I will look into a cartridge based side button solution. So when you buy the mouse you have blank cartridges and cartridges with buttons in, so you can plug in buttons where you want.

<< Comment #619 @ 23:55 CST, 28 January 2012 >>

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nexu - Reply to #617

I couldn't find any mentioning of speed limitation on the msdn site about WM_MOUSEMOVE. But testing it on the desktop, using both high and low DPI settings and lowest sensitivity, I can see I get negative acceleration moving at in-game speed twitch (luckily I never need such speed while on the desktop).
But I'm starting to wonder or that's negative acceleration or simply malfunction speed of the DA mouse (4.4 m/s according to ESR).

---quote---
Its hard to do the thing with the side buttons you mentioned, on this mouse, but if I ever do a new mold then I will look into a cartridge based side button solution. So when you buy the mouse you have blank cartridges and cartridges with buttons in, so you can plug in buttons where you want.
---/quote---
Yes, that's more or less what I was thinking about. Albeit I'm not sure how much actual demand would be for such mouse, but at least it should for once and for all solve the problem for users that find their side buttons either too big or too small, or simply don't want them period, but still like the performance of the particular mouse.
At the very least it would be an unique feature - I don't know of any mouse which you can transform it physically into a 3- or 4- or 5- button mouse.
The 'cartridge' definitely should be firmly mounted at the very least; to prevent any 'lose' component in the mouse during intense gaming session. Perhaps some kind of solution with a magnetic clip to reduce material fatigue (e.g. plastic or metal) while providing a solid mount and "easy" removal over long period of time?

<< Comment #620 @ 00:48 CST, 29 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #616

I want to see a video of you doing 6+ m/s swipes please.

16%

<< Comment #621 @ 02:32 CST, 29 January 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #620

this x99999999999

<< Comment #626 @ 17:59 CST, 29 January 2012 >>

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nexu - Reply to #620

I would do it if i had a video camera.... maybe i can use a webcam for it.

<< Comment #693 @ 13:57 CST, 1 February 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #620

ditto

<< Comment #590 @ 12:56 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (188.114.149.12)

If you are going to make more mice, do please.. please.. make a Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 shape (no deathadder is not the same shape.) but with better sensor, scroll and materials, Surely people would buy this as long as you give them a 450/900/xxx/ DPI option

<< Comment #598 @ 06:46 CST, 24 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #590

http://www.zowiegear.com/products?page=shop.p...egory_id=1

<< Comment #600 @ 12:09 CST, 24 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (188.114.149.12) - Reply to #598

You seem to be rather blind my good friend.

That shape is nowhere close to the ime 3.0, its close to the DA however..
Also, them glossy sides, shitty sensor shitty switches

So.. no

<< Comment #601 @ 13:16 CST, 24 January 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #600

mx518 sensor, switches.. who cares ie.3 ones aren't that good either and no, it's definitely closer to IE than to DA.

<< Comment #603 @ 00:19 CST, 25 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (188.114.149.12) - Reply to #601

No, it aint, im sorry you need glasses :(

Also, no it dosent use the Mx518 sensor, or lens for that matter.

<< Comment #691 @ 13:52 CST, 1 February 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #603

hum ok, I held it in my hand and it seemed fine. better shape than DA in any case.

<< Comment #594 @ 17:43 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (86.217.6.5)

Out of 42 anti virus softwares 27 detects Enotus mouse test as a dangerous malware/trojan. Not gonna use it. Periode.

https://www.virustotal.com/file/d797bd6315e41.../analysis/

<< Comment #595 @ 18:06 CST, 23 January 2012 >>

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crea* - Reply to #594

that's because it is a self extracting archive. Does any of those plenty scanners give a name to the 'threat'? no, generic derp.

I have used it hundereds of times and my pc is virus-free until now

<< Comment #596 @ 05:57 CST, 24 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (86.217.6.5) - Reply to #595

http://www.overclock.net/t/1051802/virus-free-enotus-mouse-test

then let people download it in an already unziped state.
???
profit

<< Comment #599 @ 08:56 CST, 24 January 2012 >>

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crea* - Reply to #596

yup that's better, hf with it

<< Comment #602 @ 19:58 CST, 24 January 2012 >>

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bfsan

Thank you for the thread bst. And the effort.

If you make the mouse very small (or an additional very small version), then I will be able to play using only my fingers and wrist.

If you make a very small version, I will buy the bigger one too, just to support you :)

<< Comment #615 @ 21:29 CST, 27 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (79.132.186.105) - Reply to #602

I second this, I also like small, lightweight mice. The size most people consider "laptop mice", but wired. Great for fingertip grip.

Abyssus feels good in my hand but I really miss side buttons...

<< Comment #604 @ 00:20 CST, 25 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (173.224.119.174)

I m a women and i never found any gaming mouse to fit my small hands, i for now prefer to play with mini-mouse for laptop.

A friend of mein even moded a mini-mouse to put parts of another mouse inside it.

Do you know any mouse that would be smaller than a kinzu?
thx.

-JeezL

<< Comment #606 @ 02:20 CST, 25 January 2012 >>

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gisele - Reply to #604

I can think of something smaller, you should try looking in the kitchen.

<< Comment #607 @ 02:34 CST, 25 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #606

Ah jeez I can't say it.

Look in gisele's ....

drawer :D

bound to have a zowie mico or razer abyssus. Those are both some of the smaller gaming mice available. Also the salmosa is very small.

This mouse seems to be relatively small though.

<< Comment #625 @ 17:45 CST, 29 January 2012 >>

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gisele - Reply to #606

Pretty sure you belong in kitchen as well, Six16.

<< Comment #608 @ 05:05 CST, 25 January 2012 >>

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Ffleri - Reply to #604

salmosa asian edition

<< Comment #633 @ 02:17 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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vedic - Reply to #608

The regular salmosa should be more than small enough.

<< Comment #611 @ 09:19 CST, 25 January 2012 >>

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crea* - Reply to #604

also CM Storm Spawn is fairly small

<< Comment #618 @ 14:24 CST, 28 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #604

What Ffleri said, Razer Salmosa Asian edition is probably the smallest mouse, and has a pretty good sensor as well.

CM storm Spawn is quite a short mouse, but its also a wide mouse, so that might be annoying for you.

I used a roccat pyra for a while, its not bad, the scroll wheel is a bit too hard to push, but other than that its worth a try, its quite comfortable even though its small, and its good quality.

Theres also the Razer Orochi, which you can use in wired mode. I'm not sure how good it is though as I've never tried it before, I don't think it will be as good as any of the above though. But if you like the shape then it may be ok :)

Edited by »bst at 14:29 CST, 28 January 2012

<< Comment #623 @ 02:47 CST, 29 January 2012 >>

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terrorhead - Reply to #604

Logitech G300, CM Storm Spawn

<< Comment #622 @ 02:46 CST, 29 January 2012 >>

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terrorhead

Can you disable/program the DPI button?

<< Comment #627 @ 00:01 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #622

Yes, theres a program which you can use to store settings on the mouse. It installs so it looks like a driver, but really its just a config program, you can uninstall it after you've chosen your binds/settings etc and the mouse will remember them (and you can plug it into another PC and it will keep the settings).

<< Comment #647 @ 17:19 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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terrorhead - Reply to #627

Cool. That means I'll probably buy it :D

<< Comment #624 @ 05:25 CST, 29 January 2012 >>

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dem0n

Funny I only discover this thread now, but I've been reading a bit through the thread and I couldn't find an answer to one of my biggest concerns with mouses:

I use a wmo for years now and it's the best thing that has ever happend to my aim. But you see I use the wheel in order to switch weapons (all of them, except the gauntlet obviously). Therefore I need my mousewheel to have the same feeling has the wmo wheel has, or it's a pain in the ass.

What can you tell me about how your mouse compares with the wmo wheel ? (In terms understandable by an amateur please ;) )

Thanks !

<< Comment #629 @ 00:29 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #624

My WMO wheel is very easy to turn from step to step, so in comparison the WMO one doesn't feel as 'secure' in comparison. It could be because its old though. The mouse wheel on the mouse I'm developing feels more distinct for each step, but its not stiff to turn, and the distance between each step feels the same as the WMO. Its also a lot quieter than my WMO wheel. I've played with the mouse for 2 weeks now, and haven't had a single problem with the mouse wheel in terms of false/accidental turns or 'overshooting'.

In terms of position of the wheel, it feels to me like its about 5mm closer to the back of the mouse compared with the WMO, and it sits about 1.5-2mm higher above the main buttons, at its highest point.

<< Comment #634 @ 02:42 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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dem0n - Reply to #629

Alright nice.

Thanks for the answer, I'll deffo give your mouse a shot ;)

<< Comment #628 @ 00:27 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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nexu

How about a 4GB integrated flash memory storage to keep your driver programs and game configs on there?

<< Comment #630 @ 00:36 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #628

Good idea, I'll ask, not sure how possible it is though. Doesn't *sound* that difficult... :D

<< Comment #631 @ 01:18 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #628

4GB? That seems rather excessive o.o

<< Comment #632 @ 01:39 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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nexu - Reply to #631

Was kinda thinking about storing stuff like demos too ;P ...or in fact, could drop Prism and QuakeLive on it to (or in my case urt). But yeah, it doesn't have to be that much.
I just find it a bit useless when mouse manufacturers put on-board memory in the mouse. But you can't actually do anything useful with it other than storing mouse macro stuff.... which you'll probably only need to do once.

<< Comment #635 @ 06:46 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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hyper_ - Reply to #632

Having enough space to store a game and it's configs is a nice idea actually :p Would be nice.

<< Comment #636 @ 07:00 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #631

And expensive too. The better approach is to appeal both gaming and office-use markets, so pricing and simplicity are a major concern here.

Also it isn't a must really. These days everyone carries pendrives, ipods, cellphones or some sort of storage device.

offtopic (he reads every post anyway): I just read the OP and it says the mouse will be using 1000hz out of the box. Don't know if there will be a hz switch, but 1000hz is just too much as a default setting. For example, it won't work on certain laptops or even some desktop PCs that are using any usb wireless device.

Edited by -=AvengeR=- at 07:04 CST, 30 January 2012

<< Comment #637 @ 08:36 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #636

Ok, I'll set 500hz as the default rate :)
You can change it, but only if you can get into the drivers, so wouldn't be much use if the mouse didn't work at 1000hz.

<< Comment #652 @ 21:07 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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lesterchaos - Reply to #637

I prefer if it's 1000hz out of the box. If someone wants 500hz they can change it with program. And what does usb wireless has to do with your mouse? The mouse changes the polling rate only on the USB port that it is connected to.

<< Comment #659 @ 07:11 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #652

it has to do with the overall power usage of usb ports, which matters if you are using a laptop and/or usb devices that take a lot of power (wireless, 1000hz keyboards, a gazillion things using all usb ports actively and so on).
It's just to prevent people returning to product because it isn't recognized, doesn't work because of all the said lack of power, or is not functioning at a constant 1000hz.

also we all know that nowadays 1000hz is just a marketing stunt as it only provides 1ms less latency than when using 500hz, which is not noticeable by any means (consider that clicking alone means about 10-20ms delay just on the hardware side, then there's screen delay, game lag and other factors), and it takes a lot of usb power and cpu usage for nothing really.

Edited by -=AvengeR=- at 07:16 CST, 31 January 2012

<< Comment #638 @ 09:04 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #636

Yeah, the price was my number one concern. As long as it doesn't make the price skyrocket to "normal" high-end gaming mice numbers, then it's not too big a deal.

4GB is definitely excessive, but only a few MB for macros etc. is also pretty lame. Maybe something like 256mb? :D That way, you could store all your mouse settings, configs, and some demos as well, with room to spare (unless you like carrying around hundreds of demos).

<< Comment #639 @ 09:27 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #638

Well this is what I asked them, because 4gb seemed excessive to me as well, but yeah if its not expensive then more storage like 4gb probably won't hurt:

"A gamer just asked me a question, he asked: Is it possible to put a flash memory drive onto the PCB, so that gamers can store their files on it? So when the mouse is plugged in, a drive will appear on the computer like a USB stick. It doesn't have to be big storage, about 1GB (but maybe even 100MB is enough). I don't know if its possible but I think its a good idea, because gamers always take their game files with them when they go to tournaments."

<< Comment #640 @ 09:35 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #639

:)

Now, instead of putting my configs and demos on a flash drive, all I need is my mouse! Even though I never leave my house ANYWAY!

<< Comment #641 @ 09:43 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #639

I recall my g9 was recognised as a 32kb drive the second or third time I plugged it in.

<< Comment #643 @ 15:38 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #639

Won't this add weight? Don't do it.

<< Comment #644 @ 15:43 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #643

DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT !

<< Comment #646 @ 16:53 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #643

Yeah if it adds more than 2-3 grams weight and makes the cable thicker then its not going to happen tbh, its a bit of a gimmick so I will only add it if it doesn't have any noticeable effect.

<< Comment #648 @ 18:04 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #646

A couple grams would be negligible, at least for me. I prefer heavy mice, though.

I would rather a couple extra grams and 256mb of storage (or however much you can get for a reasonable price) than... not.

<< Comment #654 @ 21:09 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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lesterchaos - Reply to #643

I agree. Don't do it. Just use your flash drive.

<< Comment #655 @ 21:10 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #654

Agreed.

People were asking for no bs on a mouse, then this crops up. Seriously flash drives are cheap and easy to acquire. Why have one in a mouse. Everyone I know has a flash drive. A regular flash drive can also be used for more than one purpose as well. Will you be carrying around a mouse to host university presentations on? no I have a flash drive.

Edited by end0rphine at 21:13 CST, 30 January 2012

<< Comment #656 @ 22:12 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #655

BUT THEY ADD WEIGHT!

<< Comment #657 @ 22:13 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #656

True. Rauvz does love his weights

<< Comment #658 @ 22:29 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #657

<3

<< Comment #663 @ 10:27 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #655

If a 1-gram, $1 addition annoys you, then there must be something wrong... with you.

He asked what the effects would be of adding this, so stop saying "no" and wait for the results.

<< Comment #677 @ 18:31 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #663

I'm sorry did I even mention weight in my post? No. I'm talking about the usefulness of a flash chip that size on a mouse. Either his margins will go down or the price will go up since a 4gb flash chip is more expensive than a 32 mb one. If you do not have a flash drive at this point there is something wrong.. with you.

Edited by end0rphine at 18:43 CST, 31 January 2012

<< Comment #678 @ 19:58 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #677

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2216277#pid2216277

Nobody wants 4GB of flash, at least not realistically.

<< Comment #679 @ 20:36 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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Harps - Reply to #678

'In 1984 PC columnist John C. Dvorak dismissively commented on the newly-released computer with a mouse: "There is no evidence that people want to use these things" ' (Wikipedia, 2012)

<< Comment #680 @ 20:54 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #679

SHUT
FACE

<< Comment #682 @ 23:58 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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fau - Reply to #679

In comparision with keyboard it was certainly a big step backwards in terms of usability and efficiency :)

<< Comment #666 @ 10:34 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #655

If its just a tiny little chip than can be added, which doesn't pose any technical risks, and isn't expensive or heavy, then I don't see much harm in adding it. That pretty much goes for anything, if it doesn't meet that criteria.

<< Comment #688 @ 06:35 CST, 1 February 2012 >>

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nexu - Reply to #666

That's what i thought about it too. NAND Flash memory seems to be fairly low price these days, especially when acquired in bulk (e.g.: ordered from China).
If it's technically not to complex nor does adds significant amount of weight. It seems to me like an useful additional "bonus" feature. This could even made more useful by including software that helps the gamers to synchronize their demos/screenshot files on the computer with the Flash memory storage on the Mouse, so this could be done with a few mouse click. Perhaps you could even 'partition' part of the NAND Flash memory to be used to store the mouse profiles.

You mentioned that the mouse weight at ~70 grams, with the basic prototype weighting at 62 grams. So if the additional Flash memory + IC's adds 8 grams to the mouse. Doesn't seems like a big deal to me as the popular Death Adder comes at 112 grams. As does most of other gaming mouse comes at about 80 - 120 grams.

It seems to me that some people just want to complain about something. As NAND Flash memory are incredible light weight. Samsung has even developed a 64 gigabyte NAND Flash that weight about 0.6 gram for smart phones.
The pricing issue however is a valid concern.

Edited by nexu at 06:37 CST, 1 February 2012

<< Comment #649 @ 18:28 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #639

i'd rather make some switch on the bottom like on abyssus to switch mouse<->usb drive modes

<< Comment #642 @ 15:17 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (87.151.142.183)

Are those sides glossy?
They totally look like that, even though you described them as grainy textured.

So far Im pretty interested, but glossy sides are a no go...
it must be either all rubberized or matt finished.

I also have some questions about the ADNS-3050.
The only mouse I know off that uses that sensor is the cm xornet, which according to overlock users has poor tracking quality and very low max tracking speed.
is it a general problem with the sensor or did cm screw it up?

<< Comment #645 @ 16:50 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #642

The sides are grainy/matt, not glossy. Actually I sent this to the factory yesterday to see what they think, so it has rubber inserts in the side. But not sure how possible it is atm:
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/8591/1crubbersides1.jpg
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9766/1crubbersides2.jpg
Although even if I don't go with that, the sides aren't slippery at all really, the main reason I sent them that was to make the mouse more compatible with more styles of grip.

I have a Xornet and my mouse has a way higher tracking speed, I can hit malfunction speed on the Xornet pretty easy, but on my mouse I haven't been able to. So its not a problem with the sensor itself, but more how its set up. Apparently the Xornet likes lighter coloured mouse mats, and performs well with them, though again I think its more to do with how its set up than with the 3050 sensor.

Tracking quality is fine imo, when compared with other gaming mice, but I think a lot of gaming mice don't have amazing tracking quality. Yesterday I sent a detailed list of things to do to the factory (rubber sides was just one of them), and part of it was to do with looking into improving the tracking quality, so I'll see what they say about it soon :)

<< Comment #653 @ 21:08 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (87.151.142.183) - Reply to #645

I would definitely prefer rubber sides or really grainy plastic like logitech uses on their g700 and on the "fingergrip-shell" on the g9x.
It's the most extreme grainy finish I have touched on a mouse and I love it...but rubber and normal matt plastic are okay as well!

I just cant stand glossy finish, not because it's slippery, far from it.it's the opposite, it's sticky and dirt combined with sweat residue dries on it, leaving a ugly "thumbprint" on the mouse and a dirty feeling when I touch it.

I am still concerned, even though you reassured that the sides arent glossy, they certainly look "more glossy" than what I would like to see :D
Your mousepad even reflects on it.(but thats probably because of the camera flash, no?!)

<< Comment #662 @ 10:19 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #653

Just to confirm, there is NO glossy parts on the mouse :)
The grainy texture is like on the WMO top part.

<< Comment #651 @ 19:32 CST, 30 January 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #645

so a a firmware update could fix the xornet?

<< Comment #665 @ 10:31 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #651

I don't know O_o well I have an idea, but not sure if it can be fixed with firmware.

<< Comment #681 @ 23:43 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #665

Well I'm thinking of buying a xornet and spawn along with your mouse :D and the spawn and xornet both have very mixed reviews.

<< Comment #683 @ 01:38 CST, 1 February 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #681

Instead of those, buy 2 more of this mouse.

<< Comment #684 @ 01:51 CST, 1 February 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #683

I was gonna do that anyway :D

<< Comment #686 @ 05:11 CST, 1 February 2012 >>

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slunge - Reply to #681

im interested in using this mouse too - and have recently bought a xornet (like less than a month ago).

im a high sens claw player and have no issues at all with the xornet

<< Comment #687 @ 05:25 CST, 1 February 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #686

erm I play a relatively medium sens 15cm/360 but I flick faster than most 35cm/360+ players while playing .round 1.7-2.1 meters per second so could you please test it on enotus for me :D?

<< Comment #660 @ 08:26 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #645

I won't add the rubber, and I want the inward angle and no sharp edges there.
So.. will I have to carve away the "new plastic" then? (not a problem.. for ME).

Edited by Tobbe at 08:32 CST, 31 January 2012

<< Comment #664 @ 10:27 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #660

If its like that then the rubber is fitted in the factory. But yeah you could remove the rubber and grind away the extra plastic if you wanted to.

I'm just finding out if its possible, its not a final decision.

The way I see it, it suits more grips with the straighter sides, and the rubber gives extra grip to make up for them being straighter.

I dunno I thought people would like it :D but if its not a popular choice then it won't be done.

<< Comment #661 @ 09:47 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (208.54.35.226) - Reply to #645

Looks like the wmo will be around for another decade. :(

<< Comment #669 @ 10:56 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #645

nonononononoooooooooo!

<< Comment #670 @ 12:18 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #669

Whats wrong with it?

<< Comment #671 @ 12:58 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #670

I think you're taking the "prefer rubber sides" thing a bit too far. The original idea with just rubber cut outs that you can put on/remove seemed fine as is, obv for people who want it. I think changing the "core" of the mouse to better accommodate this specific preference isn't worth it.

my 2 cents, i could be totally and utterly wrong but I think it's better to keep that "fix" much more simple.

<< Comment #672 @ 13:04 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (86.217.3.222) - Reply to #671

in the end, it s up to him, why do you even bother? x)

<< Comment #673 @ 13:19 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #672

I asked him though.
I want to know what people think :)

<< Comment #674 @ 13:31 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #671

Ok thanks.

The idea behind it was to make the sides straight, it wasn't anything to do with the rubber sides at first (I was going to keep them optional), but then I thought - no one has really complained about having rubber sides, and its better if they're inserts instead of stuck on, so thats why I ended up with that design.

But its like a couple of other things, its heavily dependent on if the factory will even do it, not to mention how easy it is etc, its just an idea I wanted to see if they were open to :)

<< Comment #675 @ 14:39 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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Anonymous (188.24.98.237) - Reply to #645

The rubber would provide more grip, but is more grip needed? A nice textured plastic is enough.
And my main problem is that the rubber would wear out...woudnt it?

<< Comment #676 @ 15:59 CST, 31 January 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #675

It probably doesn't *really* need it for grip, but if I make the side straight with just plastic, then the plastic gets thicker, and then I think it affects how it cools from the mold. So if I use the rubber insert, all the plastic can stay at the same kind of thickness as the rest of the mouse.

The rubber shouldn't wear out because its not a coating, but a piece of rubber.

<< Comment #685 @ 02:37 CST, 1 February 2012 >>

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Tobbe

- Has a subtle angled shape to the sides eg: \_/

I highly doubt rubber on flat sides is as lift friendly as a direct opposing force, basic physics.. I dare say most good gripers has this shape. (my other concerns are wear down and smelly fingers).
Not saying it's a BIG deal, overstating it's importance but.. Subtle angle (rubber or not).. please keep it.

Edited by Tobbe at 03:27 CST, 1 February 2012

<< Comment #692 @ 13:56 CST, 1 February 2012 >>

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tourist - Reply to #685

I actually find this harder to hold properly. when I apply some force my fingers tend to change position and I have to reset my grip. abyssus has this and it's nowhere near as comfortable shape for me as the WMO.

<< Comment #696 @ 15:14 CST, 1 February 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #692

the abyssus sides are really quite slanted in comparison to the wmo. this mouse looks much more like the kinzu sides which are just slightly more inwards than the wmo.

<< Comment #697 @ 16:25 CST, 1 February 2012 >>

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lesterchaos - Reply to #696

mx300 has the best shape of them all

<< Comment #698 @ 18:25 CST, 1 February 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #697

I agree :]

<< Comment #699 @ 05:30 CST, 2 February 2012 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #692

Rush said it...

Never used abyssus , but it's sides slant heavily (definitely in the front). pic 3. 4.
In well equipped stores you find several bad mice with this (gripper) problem (hard grip+high slant = fingers move).

But as is, this mouse seems about right.

Edited by Tobbe at 05:39 CST, 2 February 2012

<< Comment #700 @ 09:04 CST, 3 February 2012 >>

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Anonymous (124.185.12.95)

For super hardcore gamers i think a ps2 + usb cord would be good since usb = 500/1000hz and ps2 has no delay mouse clicks.

<< Comment #701 @ 09:28 CST, 3 February 2012 >>

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zealot - Reply to #700

not true and not a good idea, true for keyboards though.

<< Comment #702 @ 23:12 CST, 3 February 2012 >>

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Anonymous (124.185.12.95) - Reply to #701

How is it a mouse click different from pressing the keyboard? it is constantly being refresh at 500hz or w/e you set it at whereas a ps/2 cable has no delay.

<< Comment #703 @ 00:58 CST, 4 February 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #702

Isn't ps/2 125hz default and unchangeable?

<< Comment #704 @ 02:03 CST, 4 February 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #703

100hz and iirc the was a program called ps2 rate that got it to 200hz ( more than enough for smooth mouse movement )

<< Comment #709 @ 08:13 CST, 4 February 2012 >>

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zealot - Reply to #702

no, the point is ps/2 is interrupt based while usb does polling, which is actually better for mice (constant input vs. single keystrokes).

<< Comment #712 @ 19:42 CST, 4 February 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #709

PS/2 Mice are polled at 100 or 200hz in windows
(Maximum OS limitation)

The main benefit of PS/2 is stability. USB isn't as consistent as PS/2, but has the benefits of lower latency.

Kinda wish other input methods were developed as I don't think USB is the most optimal choice, but it does reign supreme when it comes to compatibility.

<< Comment #713 @ 20:36 CST, 4 February 2012 >>

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toop - Reply to #712

Yes PS/2 were good in those days.
Now everything is USB and soon everything will be usb3.0.
PS/2 will go in couple of years like floppy disks are gone.

Most Mobo manufacturers now do not make floppy drive connectors anymore soon Ps/2 will go too.

<< Comment #720 @ 05:36 CST, 5 February 2012 >>

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zealot - Reply to #712

...but ps/2 and usb do not poll the same way, which is the reason we adopted usb for mice, right?

ok, my knowledge on the subject is very limited, my experience with mice, different ports and gaming is not. are you suggesting we should use ps/2 for mice again because that seems a little weird to me? :d
iirc ps/2 at 200hz still can not compete against 500hz+ usb for gaming mice from what i know and remember playing with.

<< Comment #723 @ 16:29 CST, 5 February 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #720

Well its a dated protocol.

USB was adapted for good reasons, but that's not to say that PS/2 is completely inferior. A PS/2 Mouse configured properly will reamin more consistent and keep "hz" better than that of a USB one with slower motion.

The down side is of course latency. The USB mouse can respond quicker since you can scale up to 500+hz. At that point it's 5ms (200hz) vs 2ms/1ms (500/1000hz).

<< Comment #705 @ 02:05 CST, 4 February 2012 >>

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end0rphine

bst heard you're gonna release the mouse this week.

<< Comment #706 @ 05:25 CST, 4 February 2012 >>

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pshych0 - Reply to #705

How great would that be ? :)

<< Comment #707 @ 06:38 CST, 4 February 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #706

It would be most good. Most good.

<< Comment #710 @ 17:07 CST, 4 February 2012 >>

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winz - Reply to #705

If only :<(

<< Comment #711 @ 18:20 CST, 4 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #705

Would be hard since the Chinese new year holiday only just finished :( :D

The factory is just working on a few bits atm, for the 2nd sample, which if they do a good job and everything I asked, will be ready for beta testing.

Some things they are working on:
- In the first sample they just used some D2FC-F-7N switches, and other switches by "HB" for the side buttons and "Zhij" for the scroll wheel and DPI button. But the next sample will have:
Main buttons: Omron D2F-01F
Side buttons: Omron D2F-01F-A ("A" just means they fit on the PCB at a right angle)
DPI Button: Zhij (I think it works quite nice there)
Scroll wheel button: They're trying to fit a tactile switch, but may be Omron D2FC-F-7N or TTC 159.

- Sensor: The tracking isn't bad at all, but I asked them to work on improving it anyway (showed them some paint comparisons), and to get the LOD to 1-2mm.

- I asked them to reduce the tint a bit since the LED is a bit dim even on full brightness.

- Will come with the optional rubber sides (not the molded version), they will be transparent, tinted 25% black.

- Mouse feet were made thicker with a material which wasn't teflon, it was like sticker/material/ 0.5mm teflon. So this time its all teflon.

Thats pretty much it aside from really minor things like codes on the PCB and some circuit improvements which make no real difference, just tidier.

No molding is going to be done yet so the beta test mice will still have a hand made scroll wheel hole, lets me get beta testing started sooner, and find out what people think about the shape (if I mold something before beta testing, I can't change it if its not liked, so best to do it after).

I asked about the flash chip and they said they "can't do it". I'm sure they 'could' to a certain extent, but what they mean by that is, it will come with a whole load of technical problems and expense to work through, and maybe some unavoidable things which will ruin some things on the mouse. So I'm not going to go any further with it, theres enough things to do atm :)

Depending on how long the beta testing takes to reach a final decision on everything, I can then find out how long everything will take, and then I can get a much more accurate release date, and open the website for pre-orders.

<< Comment #708 @ 07:44 CST, 4 February 2012 >>

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z4t01

my abyssus mouse1 button literally just started to stick on me today. cost me the last point in a duel when my rocket wouldn't go.

i'm looking forward to this BST dudes mouse. i will def. buy from the first stock if he allows it!

<< Comment #714 @ 22:10 CST, 4 February 2012 >>

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Freiya

A very admirable approach, I'm really interested in it.

I'm not a professional by any means, but I'm in FPS-gaming for about 15 years, so I believe I have some experience and I tried all of the major gaming mice out there so far.

I'll give you some extra input from my point of view, and you'll decide on using it or not.

So the perfect mouse for >me< is (I know some of the points are already covered):

-weights ~70 g or even less (the lighter, the better)
-shape of something like WMO - or MX 300 (a bit longer and a bit higher than the Logitech)
-3 buttons overall
-rubberized top coating
-grainy (or rubberized, but grainy is better) sides
-optical / infra sensor - 1600 cpi is more than enough, a possible 800 cpi mode (or even a 400) is quite nice
-if the sensor REALLY maintains at least a >flawless< 1,5 - 2 m/s of perfect control
-~8000 FPS
-15-20 G
-the lower the LOD, the better (~1-1,5 mm)
-driverless
-no prediction
-no positive or negative accel
-no interpolation
-16 bit data path
-Always-On mode ( I know it's a default thing but I mentioned it)
- >>japanese<< Omron switches all-around
-Razer-like teflon feet (in terms of quality)
-stable 500 Hz polling rate
-no useless LCDs, weights, X-mas trees whatsoever
-a 2 m long, Logitech MX 510-like cable (maybe a bit lighter) with protection at the part, where the cable is entering the mouse to prevent the potential damage of the wires after excessive usage
-very good build quality, lasts at least 5+ years (the more, the better)
-I'm definitely not all for looks, but a Diamondback-like wheel-glowing and fainter side-glowing can be quite moody on lonely nights
-if the chassis is available in a nice yellow / black color, that's just a nifty extra :)
-if the bottom of the mouse is semi-transparent plastic (like IM 1.1a or IME 3.0), it's really heavens :)

BTW if the project is ready, I'm wondering about the price and the availability of shipping to Hungary.

Edited by nYmPhets at 23:05 CST, 4 February 2012

<< Comment #716 @ 01:06 CST, 5 February 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #714

Seems this mouse is perfect for you then. Buy 5 of them now.

Edited by end0rphine at 01:06 CST, 5 February 2012

<< Comment #717 @ 03:48 CST, 5 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #714

Cool, its going to be almost exactly that, just some small differences like there is a DPI button, so it won't be 3 button but 4 (thats the version without side buttons). No big differences though.

Its not quite ready yet ;) When the website comes online, all the shipping charges and price for the mouse will be on there. That will happen after beta testing is finished.

Edited by »bst at 02:26 CST, 6 February 2012

<< Comment #724 @ 17:51 CST, 5 February 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #717

Did I miss you saying you weren't going to have a side button? Or are you making the two versions?

I'm confused and disappointed :(

<< Comment #726 @ 02:27 CST, 6 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #724

Sorry, should have been clearer. I've edited my post now :) theres a 4 button version without side buttons and a 6 button version which has side buttons.

<< Comment #727 @ 02:55 CST, 6 February 2012 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #726

OOOH good .. was worried there.

<< Comment #715 @ 22:10 CST, 4 February 2012 >>

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By

TT1

WOW! just got a pm on tl about this mouse, ive been looking for the perfect midd-sized palm grippable/ambidextrous mouse since forever, i wasnt been able to find a combination between a well shaped ambi mouse w/ a good sensor, without any prediction/accel + a good LOD(ive gone throught at least 6 mice this month alone)

from your description this looks like my dream mouse, would i be able to get a hold of a one of ur beta mice so i can test it out? im a professional SC2 player so i put in alot of time practicing

Edited by TT1 at 22:13 CST, 4 February 2012

<< Comment #721 @ 05:51 CST, 5 February 2012 >>

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croaton - Reply to #715

Someone hook this guy up.

TT1 = PR

<< Comment #718 @ 04:26 CST, 5 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #715

I'm glad you like it, I hope it lives up to your expectations :)

I am looking for SC2 beta testers, especially professional players such as yourself.

Here is a rough idea of how choosing the beta testers is going to work (just so everyone knows, because I didn't say yet):
I have a list of people interested in beta testing the mouse, in different categories. Theres not going to be a lot of beta mice made, so it will come down to spreading the mice between people who are good at technically testing the mouse and have technical knowledge, then good players of different games such as Quake and SC2 (those are the main games the mouse is aimed at, but doesn't mean it beta testing is limited to players of only those games, it doesn't hurt to have a dota or lol (etc) player too).

The list is larger than the amount of beta mice are made, so I have to choose based on a good recorded history of gaming and reputation. I will e-mail and/or PM (on ESR) the chosen beta testers with info.

At the moment I can't say who will be a beta tester, hope everyone understands, it just keeps things more simple, I don't want to make promises to anyone that I have to break for some reason.

I have added you to the list TT1 :) If you don't check ESR often, then please PM me your email address so I can put that on there too.

Edited by »bst at 07:33 CST, 5 February 2012

<< Comment #719 @ 04:49 CST, 5 February 2012 >>

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»bst

To everyone interested in beta testing, please email [email protected] or PM me on ESR the following :
- Your nickname and real name
- Email address
- Brief description of games played / achievements / technical knowledge / passion for mice, etc. Whatever you feel is relevant to beta testing the mouse.

And I will add you to the list of potential beta testers. Please see http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2218341#pid2218341 to see some info on how beta testing will work. Thanks!

<< Comment #722 @ 13:27 CST, 5 February 2012 >>

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Freiya - Reply to #719

Mail has been sent. ^^

<< Comment #725 @ 22:38 CST, 5 February 2012 >>

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winz - Reply to #719

Mail sent aswell!

<< Comment #728 @ 05:31 CST, 6 February 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (82.120.162.200) - Reply to #725

big nerd detected

<< Comment #732 @ 11:43 CST, 6 February 2012 >>

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winz - Reply to #728

Yes, so? What's the point of your post? Showing how stupid you are? Good job buddy.

Edited by winz at 11:51 CST, 6 February 2012

<< Comment #733 @ 13:04 CST, 6 February 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.120.162.200) - Reply to #732

mad nerd detected

<< Comment #731 @ 08:54 CST, 6 February 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (82.143.224.132) - Reply to #719

I sent a mail

-HaiiYaa

<< Comment #743 @ 21:30 CST, 9 February 2012 >>

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By

Sriracha - Reply to #731

This guy out of anyone here is the one who deserves a mouse the most.

<< Comment #730 @ 08:54 CST, 6 February 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (87.99.52.125)

I hope that this mouse is not too short
photo of your hand on the mouse would be good :P

<< Comment #734 @ 03:03 CST, 7 February 2012 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #730

Read 1st post maybe? XD
- Size: (LxWxH) 117.5 (mm)

<< Comment #736 @ 09:19 CST, 7 February 2012 >>

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Anonymous (87.99.52.125) - Reply to #734

all my mouses are longer...;d

<< Comment #729 @ 08:22 CST, 6 February 2012 >>

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By

z4t01

sent a mail :)

<< Comment #735 @ 08:44 CST, 7 February 2012 >>

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»bst

Ahhh I just got the prices for the Omron D2F-01F, the price they gave me for the mouse was supposed to include them, but now they're saying those switches cost 4x the price of D2FC-F-7N :(

So for the beta I will just go with the D2FC-F-7N (10M) for the main buttons, and I'm asking for Kailh MI126703R for the side buttons
(because omron don't make right angle D2FC-F-7N, but Kailh is has nice quality).

If theres any problems in beta testing with the D2FC-F-7N then I will change the main buttons to D2F-01F but its not really worth it for the side buttons imo.

<< Comment #737 @ 10:18 CST, 7 February 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #735

D2F's and D2FC switches are said to be the same (factory wise). The D2F switches being sorted out in JP for "best quality".

The "click feeling" is heavily reliant on your shell design.

Edited by Skylit at 10:19 CST, 7 February 2012

<< Comment #738 @ 11:44 CST, 7 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #737

Thanks :D Yeah they are almost the same as far as I know - the same 'click' independent of the mouse shell, but I think D2Fs have the gold plated internals and D2FC doesn't.

They have the same specs as D2F but I don't think they're made in the same factory if that is what you meant, I think the D2FC are made in China.

But yeah basically no difference to the feel, and shouldn't affect quality hardly at all.

Edited by »bst at 11:46 CST, 7 February 2012

<< Comment #739 @ 15:58 CST, 7 February 2012 >>

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Freiya - Reply to #738

Putting the "feeling" aside, japanese switches last much longer.
That's one of the "extras" which manufacturers should put into their mice (instead of pulsating microwave ovens and coffee machines). The reason that they don't, is perhaps that almost nobody would care - even if it makes a difference.
I think it's quite a quality upgrade for a mouse.
How much would it raise the cost per unit?

Edited by nYmPhets at 02:41 CST, 8 February 2012

<< Comment #740 @ 17:06 CST, 7 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #739

I agree with you completely, its a big price increase though, nearly 40% of the original price added on :/ I dunno... I've got time to think about it. It won't matter too much in the beta testing, seeing as they have the same kind of feeling.

<< Comment #742 @ 06:20 CST, 8 February 2012 >>

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Freiya - Reply to #740

40%?? It's weird.
In Hungary, it's about ~1.25$ for a switch like that and you can buy it in 10-packs. Even if you use them just for the main two buttons, would mean a +~2.5 $ price change - which is IMO more than worth it. :S

Edited by nYmPhets at 16:29 CST, 8 February 2012

<< Comment #741 @ 01:00 CST, 8 February 2012 >>

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sonic

I was thinking about buying one of these fancy new darthbladder meeces to replace my trusty (skippy) mx518.
I love "home engineering" type stuff, some of the biggest advancements in tech (in the area I'm involved in, nothing to do with gaming) have come from "backyard" engineers.

I reckon the 518 can last till March.

<< Comment #752 @ 06:06 CST, 12 February 2012 >>

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kapca - Reply to #741

:O it has a shitty cabling indeed, but never skipped for me, not even once.

<< Comment #744 @ 02:53 CST, 10 February 2012 >>

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bfsan

If the mouse is less than 25 G (like intelli/wmo), then I am not gonna buy it. Every mouse I've tested that is 20G or less, simply can't handle the flicks.

Sorry if this is posted elsewhere, but it is not easy to search for 'G' in a large thread like this.

Is the mouse less than 25G?

<< Comment #745 @ 03:33 CST, 10 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #744

Specs say "up to 23G". Which mouse have you used that has over 25G? Oo I haven't noticed any problems with flicks at all btw (and I have really looked for them) :D

<< Comment #747 @ 08:54 CST, 10 February 2012 >>

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bfsan - Reply to #745

>Specs say "up to 23G". Which mouse have you used that has
>over 25G? Oo I haven't noticed any problems with flicks at all
>btw (and I have really looked for them) :D

Not over 25 G but up to 25 G (according to specs for intelli 3.0/wmo 1.1). If it's 20 G it's not enough. Who knows, maybe 23 G is enough.

I tested the Xai, and it can do 30 G, I tought 'wauw' at last a mouse that rivals the intelli/wmo. It performed perfectly, until I tested it in quake for two weeks - I noticed that I missed most of the shots where I flicked or shot while turning / moving the mouse. So I am back to the intelli / wmo.

Edited by bfsan at 09:32 CST, 15 February 2012

<< Comment #746 @ 08:54 CST, 10 February 2012 >>

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bfsan - Reply to #745

If it's 23 G I will buy your mouse, just to support you. But 20 G is not enough for flicks - for the way I flick.

Edited by bfsan at 09:33 CST, 15 February 2012

<< Comment #748 @ 11:33 CST, 10 February 2012 >>

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Anonymous (89.69.98.232) - Reply to #744

Sorry for being rude but what you say is BS.

Even 10G is enough. = 98.1m/s2 acceleration!
You should check perfect control speed.
With wmo its only 1.5 m/s and then you get negative accel.

Xai and other mice with avago adns-9500 have acceleration problems so...

<< Comment #749 @ 04:13 CST, 11 February 2012 >>

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bfsan - Reply to #748

#761 wrote:
>Sorry for being rude but what you say is BS.
>Even 10G is enough. = 98.1m/s2 acceleration

It is based on actual testing of the mice, in-game while flicking, and it may be a combination of the max G, and other factors - drivers.

Please take your 10G (or 20G) mouse and make in almost instantaneous orthogonal turn. Then post your video here. Position your camera so we can see both the mouse and your screen. Repeat this for a complete reverse flick. And please use a low sensitivity.

Edited by bfsan at 09:35 CST, 15 February 2012

<< Comment #750 @ 04:34 CST, 11 February 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #749

What are we actually looking for here? Is the mouse supposed to explode?

Edited by end0rphine at 04:35 CST, 11 February 2012

<< Comment #754 @ 12:14 CST, 12 February 2012 >>

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Anonymous (86.217.66.88) - Reply to #750

proly pos or neg accel or even worth, looking down or up. U that retarded that you cant imagine?

kk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgbWWTanmQk

<< Comment #757 @ 16:53 CST, 12 February 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #754

I'm sorry but he is specifically talking about G's, not speed or in the case of your video, malfunction/perfect control. If he had problems with the 9500 sensor, albeit a sensor with accel issues, it has a very high malfunction rate and perfect control, therefore I want to know what he means when going above '20g'. Please refrain from verbal abuse next time.

<< Comment #759 @ 17:50 CST, 12 February 2012 >>

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bfsan - Reply to #750

The Habu Mouse has a maximum supported acceleration of 20 G. If you take the Habu Mouse and do a flick, you get ... I don't know what to call it ... 120 percent negative acceleration.

But I do recall that I could flick with the mx518, and it only has a max acceleration of 15G. So I guess I don't know what is causing this. I may be wrong about the max acceleration thing, or the mice specifications are wrong.

Edited by bfsan at 04:45 CST, 14 February 2012

<< Comment #760 @ 18:08 CST, 12 February 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #759

I think you may be looking at the wrong specification. You should be looking at IPS or the perfect control speed. The habu sensor has a 45 IPS which is approx 1.1 m/s which is VERY low. That, or user reviews which state perfect/malfunction. bst has tested this sensor for approx 4 m/s at 1000 DPI.

Edited by end0rphine at 19:19 CST, 12 February 2012

<< Comment #761 @ 19:27 CST, 12 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #759

I think it basically works like this:

IPS or m/s = max speed
Acceleration = how fast it can reach that max speed

So for acceleration, maybe think of it like a car that can do 150mph but takes 15 seconds to get there.

I think it would be best demonstrated with a mouse which has a max speed of 4m/s but an accel of 1g, then you would have to slowly increase the speed of the mouse before you could reach 4m/s, instead of being able to get there straight away.

I don't really know how to interpret 23g of accel, but I think its so high that you wouldn't really notice anything, and so you can pretty much get the most out of the sensor near-enough immediately (in other words you might have to be a cyborg to notice any effect).

Edited by »bst at 19:29 CST, 12 February 2012

<< Comment #762 @ 04:40 CST, 14 February 2012 >>

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bfsan - Reply to #761

Thank you for for the input bst.

If the other mice can only move their max G for a fraction of an inch, then I'd call it false marketing. I would expect it to support the acceleration for at least 10 inches / 30 cm.

Edited by bfsan at 04:46 CST, 14 February 2012

<< Comment #773 @ 10:25 CST, 16 February 2012 >>

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Anonymous (89.69.98.232) - Reply to #761

>I don't really know how to interpret 23g of accel

http://www.overclock.net/t/1167599/20g-acceleration#post_15685165

And a video for bfsan (i've found it on youtube).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wikIO80R4b8&am...nXwyLZNXWN
turn on cc for comments.

<< Comment #777 @ 01:31 CST, 17 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #773

Interesting, Thanks!

<< Comment #751 @ 05:53 CST, 12 February 2012 >>

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lemming#13

I don't like the LED scroll wheel, I don't dig the many DPI settings and the software. But it still looks very good on paper. If your beta testers give good feedback I will give it a try :)

GL with your new product.

<< Comment #755 @ 15:58 CST, 12 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #751

Just see the software as something you can use to set the mouse up the way you like, so you can turn off the led scroll wheel, set it to one dpi and remap the dpi button, then uninstall the software and enjoy the mouse :)

<< Comment #756 @ 16:34 CST, 12 February 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #755

If it works sure. I would have like the product to be as simple as possible for 2 reasons:

- less room for error (you sure all these DPI settings *work* 100%?)
- only necessary features (3 DPI steps are enough range, the rest can be done within the game)

<< Comment #758 @ 17:08 CST, 12 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #756

The DPI choices come from the default choices in the Avago 3050 sensor, so they aren't interpolated. Its not like the Avago 3090 which only has 2 default choices (1800 and 3500). So with the 3090 sensor, the 450 dpi setting for example can come from using a lower sensitivity on 1800 dpi x 0.25 = 450.

But with the 3050 sensor, you have:
250, 500, 750, 1000, 1250, 1500, 1750, 2000
All available to choose from in the sensor, so the 500 dpi setting for example is already there, it doesn't have to be lowered from, for example, 2000 dpi.

The 3000 and 4000 dpi settings come from the 2000 DPI setting, with some filtering done by the MCU, a bit like some other recent mice which offer higher DPI than is offered by the sensor. Really thats just there for some games where you sometimes need the speed to turn a turret quickly etc.

You can set the DPI steps on the DPI button by ticking the DPI value in the software, so if you tick 500 and 1000, thats all the button will cycle through. Also (if you want to), you can set the sensitivity slider to 80%, and it will change those DPI levels to 400 and 800 dpi.

Btw heres a picture of the DPI selection in the software:
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2071/pg2t.jpg
(btw its an older pic, the settings under 'mouse sensitivity' should say 10%, 20% etc).

Edited by »bst at 17:10 CST, 12 February 2012

<< Comment #763 @ 10:05 CST, 14 February 2012 >>

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Anonymous (86.217.66.88) - Reply to #758

i wonder how physicaly can the sensor change his accuracy/dpi without an interpolation. To od it without interp like in a camera, you need a motor to change the focus of the lens, so wtf?

<< Comment #793 @ 14:07 CST, 18 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #763

Well its pretty complicated, I'm still learning about it atm.

I don't really know how it works in the sensor, but from what I understand, when Avago makes the sensor and sets the DPI steps, its done really thoroughly, to rule out any errors or unwanted behaviour.

So although it may still be interpolated in the end, its better left to Avago, who spend a lot of time and money to get it right. From what I've learned so far, the coding can be quite complex, in order to iron out any problems. Also I think there may be more control at the sensor level, than at the MCU level, there may be things that can be done there that can't be corrected by the MCU.

I think thats why there can be a lot of difference between different mice using the 3090 sensor, because the DPI steps offered by the sensor are only 1800 and 3500, so each manufacturer has different ways of creating more DPI steps from it.

<< Comment #753 @ 10:32 CST, 12 February 2012 >>

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By

pyron83

You got mail! :D

<< Comment #764 @ 19:18 CST, 14 February 2012 >>

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lesterchaos

bst, is it possible for the mouse to have 125hz polling rate in case I want to use it for some games or is that not possible? I see in the mouse program there is only 250, 500 and 1000hz.

<< Comment #792 @ 13:59 CST, 18 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #764

I will ask for it :D Shouldn't be a problem.

<< Comment #765 @ 08:19 CST, 16 February 2012 >>

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bfsan

I wondered if it would be possible to set/change max IPS in the configuration program for the mouse.

I don't know how it works, but I imagine that some mice keep moving the mouse curor at the max IPS when the max IPS of the mouse is exceeded, and others just start to move the mouse cursor erratically (like the habu and plenty of other mice do).

Could also be nice if you can limit the max G, so you can play around with this too.

That way you can use the mouse to find out how fast you can actually move your hand/arm. And if the mouse still works, when the mouse movement exceeds the selected max IPS, then you can set it to work 'as you are used to'.

Edited by bfsan at 08:22 CST, 16 February 2012

<< Comment #769 @ 08:45 CST, 16 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #765

Sorry, I don't really know what you mean O_o

<< Comment #781 @ 09:41 CST, 17 February 2012 >>

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bfsan - Reply to #769

I mean:

Make it possible to set the max speed the mouse can be moved / Make it possible to lower the max speed.

Make it possible to lower the max acceleration that the mouse is capable of.

Edited by bfsan at 09:41 CST, 17 February 2012

<< Comment #783 @ 12:07 CST, 17 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #781

Ok I see, but I don't understand why would you want to do that?

<< Comment #786 @ 13:05 CST, 17 February 2012 >>

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bfsan - Reply to #783

Because, having a mouse that always moves with your selected maxspeed, even when you move the mouse faster than this, would be of use (to me).

Edited by bfsan at 13:06 CST, 17 February 2012

<< Comment #787 @ 14:24 CST, 17 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #786

I think what you mean is something like cl_mousesenscap in quake live? It doesn't really have much to do with IPS and Max Acceleration, those are more about the capability of the sensor (if you limited those, the sensor would stop tracking completely when you went over their limit).

It works like this, if what you want is adjustable acceleration, with a sensitivity cap/limit, eg:
sensitivity: 5
acceleration: 0.5
sensitivity limit: 10

The drivers don't support it at the moment, but I will look into it. It might not make it into the release version though, but later I will look into updating the drivers with it :)

<< Comment #791 @ 13:19 CST, 18 February 2012 >>

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bfsan - Reply to #787

>I think what you mean is something like cl_mousesenscap in quake live?

No. I do not use acceleration. I play with mouse acceleration turned off in the OS and in-game.

>It doesn't really have much to do with IPS and Max Acceleration, those are more about the capability of the
>sensor (if you limited those, the sensor would stop tracking completely when you went over their limit).

But your sensor can move 4 m/s. So if you add an option to set the limit to say 1 m/s, then the mouse should move 1m/s whenever you move it between 1 m/s and 4 m/s. Do you understand what I mean? The 1 m/s is just an example value.

Never mind the option of limiting the max G, but a limit to the max speed would be nice. But it is not a priority, and I agree that you shouldn't spend time on it, before you have finished and sold your first mice.

I guess it's a good idea to enable acceleration when the mouse speed exceeds a certain max-speed-value though, like in quake live. But I wouldn't use it - others do though.

The following suggestion has nothing to do with the max speed above, but is a comment on the maxsenscap thing. What I would like, is for acceleration to kick in after you have moved the mouse a certain distance, independent of the speed with which you move your mouse. It would require that the mouse software detects when you lift your mouse OR when you change the direction in which you move the mouse. If you reposition or change direction of movement, then you have moved the mouse 0 cm. Then when you start moving it, the mouse software detects the distance you move the mouse, and the acceleration should kick in at the specified tresshold (fx 20 cm or whatever you set it to). This would be usefull. If it was implemented, then I would start using acceleration.

Edited by bfsan at 13:58 CST, 18 February 2012

<< Comment #794 @ 14:18 CST, 18 February 2012 >>

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azxx - Reply to #791

>But your sensor can move 4 m/s. So if you add an option to set the limit to say 1 m/s, then the mouse should move 1m/s whenever you move it between 1 m/s and 4 m/s.

but why would you want to do that?

<< Comment #801 @ 09:21 CST, 19 February 2012 >>

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bfsan - Reply to #794

Because I think it will be easier to time flicks, if the mouse moves with a constant max speed - for me anyways.

Check this link:

http://www.esreality.com/?a=longpost&id=1265679&page=4

Here you can see that when you move the WMO between 1 m/s and 2 m/s, the WMO moves at a constant speed of approx 1 m/s, at 125 Hz.

And this:

http://www.esreality.com/?a=longpost&id=1265679&page=14

Here you can see why I have no trouble flicking with the MX518.

Edited by bfsan at 05:06 CST, 20 February 2012

<< Comment #795 @ 15:22 CST, 18 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #791

I think I know what you mean now.

Is this right?:
If you set the limit to 1m/s, then even if you move the mouse at 4m/s, the cursor won't speed up, it will behave as if you're moving the mouse at 1m/s. So its more like a speedcap than a senscap.

I never heard of it before but I think its interesting :D

Your second idea will probably be a lot harder to do, but I can see what you mean.

I will keep both the ideas in mind for when I have more time to do driver stuff, maybe the first idea won't be too hard to implement, but not sure atm.

Edited by »bst at 15:24 CST, 18 February 2012

<< Comment #800 @ 09:19 CST, 19 February 2012 >>

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bfsan - Reply to #795

>Is this right?:
correct.

If you need help with driver/software development, then reply with an email and I will post you.

Edited by bfsan at 04:35 CST, 20 February 2012

<< Comment #774 @ 11:52 CST, 16 February 2012 >>

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2ShellBonus - Reply to #765

Instead of this gimmick, just put a cursor tracking software that logs the speed of the cursor.

Then with math calculate the speed in m/s

<< Comment #766 @ 08:24 CST, 16 February 2012 >>

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bfsan

Will you be releasing the source code for the mouse driver and mouse configuration programs?

<< Comment #768 @ 08:40 CST, 16 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #766

Nope

<< Comment #772 @ 10:24 CST, 16 February 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (93.231.166.202)

is there a way to preorder ? cause im much likely going to buy this, since its by far the most promising mouse i've seen in quite some time ;)

<< Comment #776 @ 01:30 CST, 17 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #772

There will be after beta testing is finished :)

<< Comment #778 @ 02:37 CST, 17 February 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #776

Is it finished?

<< Comment #779 @ 09:01 CST, 17 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #778

Beta testing? No.. hasn't even started yet :(

<< Comment #788 @ 17:23 CST, 17 February 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #779

:(

<< Comment #782 @ 10:10 CST, 17 February 2012 >>

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By

Khenra

I'm very excited about this mouse. Who will be manufacturing it, once the testing phase is complete?

<< Comment #785 @ 12:08 CST, 17 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #782

It will be made by the same factory in China which is making the prototype mice atm :D

<< Comment #789 @ 17:51 CST, 17 February 2012 >>

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lesterchaos - Reply to #785

can you answer my question about the polling rate (comment #777)? I'm sure it will be useful for some... if it's no bother of course.

<< Comment #790 @ 20:07 CST, 17 February 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.120.38.96) - Reply to #789

what about #776 ?

<< Comment #796 @ 15:46 CST, 18 February 2012 >>

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»bst

Thought I would see if I could move the mouse a bit faster with enotus mouse test xD
http://www.erasem.com/images/mousetest4.jpg
4.85m/s / 190 IPS
I think I can go faster, just takes me a bit of space to build up the speed :( going to clear my desk and see if I can get it over 5m/s now.

Update: woot xD 5.11 m/s / 201 IPS:
http://www.erasem.com/images/mousetest5.jpg

Edited by »bst at 15:59 CST, 18 February 2012

<< Comment #797 @ 15:52 CST, 18 February 2012 >>

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maltyplaya - Reply to #796

I want to see a flick rail at 4.85 metres per second!

<< Comment #798 @ 16:05 CST, 18 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #797

lol yeah, me too :D

<< Comment #806 @ 13:02 CST, 23 February 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #796

The higher you get with this, the more likely it becomes that something is just not right...

<< Comment #799 @ 21:26 CST, 18 February 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.120.38.96)

if LOD < 1.5mm me buying it !

<< Comment #802 @ 18:17 CST, 19 February 2012 >>

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By

bfsan

And how does the mouse perform on an artisan mouse pad? kai.g3? Shiden-kai? Please include people with these pads in your group of beta testers.

Ask beta testers which pads they will test the mouse with.

<< Comment #803 @ 19:43 CST, 19 February 2012 >>

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By

cumrag

possible release date?

<< Comment #804 @ 04:01 CST, 20 February 2012 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #803

Release date is hopefully in march

And I hope too, I'm looking forward to test the final version of this mouse, it seems very promising !

Edited by fishbone_ at 04:01 CST, 20 February 2012

<< Comment #805 @ 05:13 CST, 20 February 2012 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.47.239) - Reply to #804

it seems too promissing in my opinion

wait & see

<< Comment #807 @ 11:06 CST, 27 February 2012 >>

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By

winz

Any news on the beta testing? Did it start?

Edited by winz at 09:42 CST, 28 February 2012

<< Comment #809 @ 13:36 CST, 29 February 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #807

Sorry mate, not yet, the new version of the mouse is coming to me this week, just took a while to get done. It will be happening very soon now though.

In the mean time heres a pic of the PCB the factory sent me:
http://www.erasem.com/images/DSC00936.jpg

Edited by »bst at 13:37 CST, 29 February 2012

<< Comment #810 @ 15:44 CST, 29 February 2012 >>

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winz - Reply to #809

Nice, good to know.

Please keep us updated! :)

<< Comment #905 @ 15:32 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #809

How many cm is that back part behind the PCB?

It looks like a nice bit to cut off to facilitate finger tip movement :D.

<< Comment #906 @ 16:02 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #905

lol :D
About 3cm!

<< Comment #907 @ 16:03 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #906

Great too bad doing that would shave off more weight but I guess I can lower my sens and deal with it.

<< Comment #910 @ 16:18 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #907

You will also have to glue the top of the shell to the bottom, because the screw in that pic holds the back part of the mouse together :p

Edited by »bst at 16:18 CDT, 27 March 2012

<< Comment #911 @ 16:21 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #910

Yeah I know , I'm more worried about applying mouse feet and keeping the level with the ones in the grooves in the front.

<< Comment #808 @ 02:57 CST, 29 February 2012 >>

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By

end0rphine

How are you bst?

<< Comment #812 @ 11:23 CST, 3 March 2012 >>

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By

Acclaim

Very interested. Will be following development keenly!

Any word on the prototype's LOD?

<< Comment #811 @ 11:21 CST, 3 March 2012 >>

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By

asdator

w8ting for the pictures of the new version ;)) on the market right now i really cant find anything good which can substitute G1/MX300. GL with the project :)

<< Comment #813 @ 22:24 CST, 6 March 2012 >>

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»bst

I got the beta test version of the mouse yesterday, they done pretty much everything I asked, I think its a really nice mouse :)

They made the LOD about 2.1mm, it feels fine to me, hardly any different from when I was using the tape trick before. Also I haven't noticed any side effect from it so far.

The Scroll wheel, DPI,and side button switches are Huano, they feel good to me. But I think I will get them to change the mouse wheel one for an Omron switch.

I made a gallery here, I took a lot of photos so everyone can see it in full detail:
http://www.erasem.com/gallery/
(btw erasem.com is just a temporary website).

Soon I will get the factory to send me the beta test samples and I will contact the selected beta testers :)

Sorry its taking longer than I expected, I am trying to make it happen as fast as I can, but don't want to rush it either :)

<< Comment #814 @ 07:21 CST, 7 March 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.45.38) - Reply to #813

2.1mm is way too much for an hypothetical perfect 1337 mouse. I hope you can fix it.

<< Comment #818 @ 13:15 CST, 7 March 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #813

Why Huano switches now?

<< Comment #820 @ 14:32 CST, 7 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #818

I just wanted to try them, I think they're really nice as side buttons tbh, they seem to have a bit more tactile feedback than the omrons, and slightly more positive sound, which I like because sometimes there can be that moment of doubt if you got a sucessful click or not. Also since side buttons are only usually clicked in one off moments, and don't have anything resting on them, they don't need 5+ million click lifespan like the main buttons, so theres more types (like Huano) to choose from.

I could get the omrons but they are way more expensive, because they have to use the japanese versions (top of the line), and it just feels like a waste on side buttons, where its not needed.

So unless its really hated in beta testing then I will probably stick with the Huano switches for the dpi and side buttons, and I'm not so sure an omron switch on the mouse wheel is the best idea either but will try it :) The one thing I do think is that the mouse 1 and 2 buttons could be better off as the japanese versions of the omron switches (if I were to spend money on switches that is where I would do it first).

Edited by »bst at 14:40 CST, 7 March 2012

<< Comment #822 @ 15:22 CST, 7 March 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #820

Well I think I agree with the Huano switches for side buttons. On my Zowie AM, the side buttons are crisp and give more feedback than regular omrons while requiring abit more force, which is good since you don't wanna be accidentally hitting it when resting your thumb on it or something..

<< Comment #825 @ 10:37 CST, 8 March 2012 >>

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Anonymous (151.188.213.229) - Reply to #822

Actually a lot of people use their mouse side buttons for push to talk, I probably press the side button on my G400 5-10 times a minute while scrimming cod4 or just conversing.

<< Comment #826 @ 11:49 CST, 8 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #825

These Huanos are nice imo, Huano don't just make one switch ofc :D

I'll try and explain what these ones are like:
- They make a duller sound than the omrons - less of a metalic sound
- They need a little bit more force to get going (but not much)
- They have more of a tactile feel

They are still easy to press and pretty quiet, they just feel a bit more 'reassuring'. As for lifespan they are rated at 5 million clicks iirc.

<< Comment #831 @ 15:21 CST, 8 March 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #826

Yeh that's kinda what I was trying to get at. It feels reassuring, deliberate. Feels nice, not so much for m1 and m2, but it works well for side buttons.

<< Comment #819 @ 13:32 CST, 7 March 2012 >>

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Harps - Reply to #813

Thanks for updating us on the current status of development. In the gallery I see there isn't a full rubber scroll wheel (as in the concept drawing or prototype photos), which scroll wheel will feature in the final product?

<< Comment #823 @ 16:46 CST, 7 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #819

Sorry I should have explained:
The mouse in the new photos uses a standard scroll wheel (only difference is transparent plastic) - its already done, so is the simplest and fastest solution (I think it looks nicer as well). The full rubber scroll wheel takes a lot more work and time, so I am planning on the beta test mice to have the standard scroll wheel, to get some feedback on if it should be changed or not.

<< Comment #821 @ 14:47 CST, 7 March 2012 >>

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Freiya - Reply to #813

Really promising, but 2.1 mm sounds a bit much.
The performance-factor is still unknown (for me), but on the outer shell, it looks good.

<< Comment #815 @ 10:50 CST, 7 March 2012 >>

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Anonymous (85.157.237.205)

Looking good ! LOD seems fine too, you dont wanna reduce it too much because i hate what they did with Zowie AM when they made LOD so low that the mouse is not to tracking on some surfaces.

<< Comment #817 @ 11:49 CST, 7 March 2012 >>

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Anonymous (94.174.57.104)

2mm sounds good to me. Will pick one up when they are up for sale. Good work

<< Comment #816 @ 11:29 CST, 7 March 2012 >>

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By

Bored

looks nice! do you think we will be able to buy it before the summer?

<< Comment #824 @ 18:18 CST, 7 March 2012 >>

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Anonymous (86.130.244.215)

huano switches really are terrible, please dont use them for side buttons.

<< Comment #830 @ 14:39 CST, 8 March 2012 >>

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tzawk - Reply to #824

What flaw(s) do huano switches have that makes them so terrible?

<< Comment #827 @ 12:02 CST, 8 March 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.45.38)

Hmm, looks interresting but why taking such a rusty shape? This shape is not realy evolved in my eyes. Some discret curves like the one on my kinzu are appreciated and would be more attractive for consumers. Some sexy curves in a few words.

<< Comment #828 @ 12:12 CST, 8 March 2012 >>

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w0nk0

out of curiosity how much do the stupid lights affect cost/pricing? also can will u do a version without them?

<< Comment #829 @ 13:21 CST, 8 March 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #828

there's only one led afaik and it can be disabled easily.

<< Comment #832 @ 15:37 CST, 8 March 2012 >>

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By

terrorhead

I want to buy 2 or 3.

<< Comment #833 @ 00:08 CST, 9 March 2012 >>

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By

z4t01

cmon man! i just had to buy another abyssus :( i hope ur mouse will be available soon.. need to buy!

<< Comment #834 @ 01:38 CST, 9 March 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #833

What went wrong with your other abyssus? I'm just trying to profile as much problems about it to see whether I could risk getting one.

<< Comment #848 @ 17:26 CST, 10 March 2012 >>

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z4t01 - Reply to #834

LMB sticks/fails after 6mo hardcore usage

<< Comment #1280 @ 06:41 CDT, 30 July 2012 >>

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iKs - Reply to #848

happens to me :(

<< Comment #835 @ 02:42 CST, 9 March 2012 >>

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function9

I don't know if it would save much as far as weight or price is concerned. But if you're still going with a version with no side buttons, would it be possible to make it without the LED? Have the one with side buttons and light the "high end" version and the one w/out buttons and lights the "low end" version.

Edited by function9 at 02:42 CST, 9 March 2012

<< Comment #836 @ 03:33 CST, 9 March 2012 >>

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yoyoman

Were you the one who made the thread complaining about all the crappy mouses on the market and thinking about creating a new mouse? If so I underestimated you :)

<< Comment #837 @ 04:11 CST, 9 March 2012 >>

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aerial

Leds are kind of weird. Is there anyone interested in this mouse who would not buy it because it has no leds? If you go for this mouse, you certainly know what you want (flawless light mouse). I would vote for version without leds just to show mainstream companies what esr thinks about leds in mice.

Another thing that can be worrying is the durability of rubber coating. Razer already proved that it can wear out pretty fast even on expensive mice, and what will be quality of it on such cheap mouse shell? I guess only time will show.

<< Comment #842 @ 06:27 CST, 10 March 2012 >>

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bfsan - Reply to #837

Aerial wrote:
>Another thing that can be worrying is the durability of rubber
>coating. Razer already proved that it can wear out pretty fast

Rubber is a big con. I don't like any of the mice I've tested that had rubber coating. Dirt sticks to it, and it is easily damaged.

Edited by bfsan at 06:27 CST, 10 March 2012

<< Comment #846 @ 16:39 CST, 10 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #837

The problem with LEDs in mice is just lack of control, the more you can control them, they become a non-issue imo.

Rubber coating - I think theres only two options with this mouse, rubber coating on top or glossy on top (it only has the grainy plastic texture on the sides).

If people want the glossy top then I'll try and do a version with it.

<< Comment #838 @ 05:37 CST, 9 March 2012 >>

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By

Tobbe

*LED weight = ~0.1gr.
*LED cost = ~0.1£ (if you buy many)
*LED ON/OFF= Yes

Can we stop fuzzing? X)

<< Comment #841 @ 05:45 CST, 10 March 2012 >>

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Omlas1

I think leds are unneccessary because the costumers will be the ones who cant find a decent enough mouse from the current market selection, but i have no problem with it as long as it can be turned off or if its light not that harsh as in some of the Razer mice.

<< Comment #844 @ 16:21 CST, 10 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #841

I think the LED is a really cool feature on the mouse tbh. At first I didn't care about it but now I quite like it, mostly because everything it does is almost for free, it doesn't harm anything else (like weight/cost).

One of the things I like is the option to change the brightness, so I can put a bit of colour into the mouse but without blinding or distracting me.

Also it can do some things, like for example, for people who switch DPI, I am thinking of making it so you can assign different LED configurations to each dpi step.

So if you are on 500 dpi it can be a dim red glow, but if you press the dpi button and swtich to 2000dpi, it can change to a bright fast yellow pulse (or whatever you want). So then you can tell quickly what dpi step you're on by just looking at the mouse (or just the mousewheel).

I know thats nothing revolutionary or anything but its nice to have for relatively free :D

Also yes, you can turn off the LED completely, the sensor for the LED is infra red, so there is 100% no light coming from the mouse when the LED is set to off.

<< Comment #847 @ 17:10 CST, 10 March 2012 >>

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winz - Reply to #844

Don't mind those people complaining of LEDs tbh, I think they just complain for the sake of.. complaining, It's the same as the ones who complain about prediction without even knowing what it really is.

They are just exaggerating that "issue" to ridiculous proportions, I don't even get how it could be a problem in the first place to be honest. It has absolutely no negative impact on the mouse itself even without having the option to turn it off..

Well at least it shows how much you care about the project and that can't be a bad thing. :)

Edited by winz at 19:07 CST, 10 March 2012

<< Comment #851 @ 06:50 CDT, 11 March 2012 >>

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Omlas1 - Reply to #847

Its all good if it can be turned off... Was only a bit of a concern for me because i usually sleep with pc being turned on and prefer a dark room instead of a disco'd one, this was pretty much the reason why i had to switch from the Diamondback salamander to the 3G version back than..

<< Comment #853 @ 10:16 CDT, 11 March 2012 >>

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winz - Reply to #851

Oh yea true that can be annoying. Just put your pants over it and sleep naked! :>

<< Comment #855 @ 16:22 CDT, 11 March 2012 >>

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By

Something - Reply to #853

Black electrical/insulation tape?!

<< Comment #849 @ 17:29 CST, 10 March 2012 >>

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By

z4t01

I JUST WANT TO BUY THIS MOUSE ALREADY. holy crap man whens the release!

<< Comment #850 @ 17:39 CST, 10 March 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #849

end of line ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->

<< Comment #852 @ 07:32 CDT, 11 March 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df

may we finally get an estimated price? without esr discount, hehe |]*

i'm probably going to buy like 5, so I need to know how much to start putting away for my shopping spree

<< Comment #864 @ 17:19 CDT, 19 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #852

Its still a bit early to get an exact price, because theres still a few things that might change it, like the beta test, and depending on the packaging I choose etc.

Also I don't really know what margins retailers work on for gaming mice. But I do have a rough wholesale price, so its not too bad, I will just have to ask retailers what they want from it. Some people say 15% or so which would be great, but I have a suspicion that gaming mice are a bit higher, seeing as they're more of an accessory.

I have made it so that the top end price (if the retailers want a really huge margin) will be about 55USD/35GBP/40EUR. So if they do only want something like 15% it will be a lot cheaper. So really I am hoping to get it around the Xornet price (25GBP), probably a little higher though, since we're a much smaller company :)

<< Comment #865 @ 17:23 CDT, 19 March 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #864

ok, sounds great ^^

<< Comment #854 @ 14:16 CDT, 11 March 2012 >>

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By

o.Qv

hurry !!!!!! my mouse just broke, now i gotta live with some crap from my office til you're done T_T

<< Comment #871 @ 18:29 CDT, 19 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #854

Lol :D
Going as fast as I can!

<< Comment #856 @ 22:38 CDT, 11 March 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (69.139.46.168)

with the g1 i had an annoying issue that when i would hould it the mouse would tilt back which would lift the front up.. does this mouse do the same thing I see the feet are positioned about the same. Basically im just saying I would move the feet a bit farther back if it does.

<< Comment #857 @ 15:55 CDT, 12 March 2012 >>

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By

c1

hey bst can u tell us how much time it will take untill final release? 1-2 years?
I would really like to buy the final mouse so I can finally replace my wmo

ps: I like the rubbered sides of the cm spawn because it gives a perfect grip even with sweaty hands. Maybe you can add sth like this to your mouse.

Edited by c1 at 16:28 CDT, 12 March 2012

<< Comment #868 @ 17:45 CDT, 19 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #857

Much sooner than 1-2 years hehe ;)
I just don't know how the beta testing will go atm so its hard to say.
If the beta testers like the mouse and don't require any huge changes, then it probably won't take long, and I will know the final spec for the mouse, from there all I have to do is get it certified and place an order :)

<< Comment #858 @ 08:11 CDT, 13 March 2012 >>

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By

bfsan

The mouse shown in #91 is what I would prefer.

<< Comment #869 @ 18:02 CDT, 19 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #858

Might do that one.
I can put this same setup (sensor etc) into a few different shells if people like it.
Its not really a huge deal tbh, the main thing is money, as long as the mice sell (especially the first one), then I can add new designs pretty fast, as long as it uses the same setup as the first one.

<< Comment #860 @ 17:17 CDT, 13 March 2012 >>

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Nivit

Been following this from the start.

Being obsest with mice all my nerd life.

Started with the legendary ballmice mouseman wheel, after that I bought every new mouse.
Remember shelling out over 100$for the Boomslang (ballmice).

After that I bought almost every new mouse on the market tro try.

To date my favorite shape is the Logitech G3, the design of it is also the best of any mice to date. Sadly the sensor was subpar.

I used basicly every single mouse on the market from the first ball mouse and to date.

Still searching for my dream mouse, I got over 20 mousepads aswell. Mice + mousepads are my weird fetish ;O

A Logitech G3 with 1 extra sidebutton and better sensor, but nothing will beat that shape and feel (yeah I have mx300,G1 etc)

Always buy new mice that looks promising but end up being a dissapointment.

Latest purchase was Kana + Kinzu v2 Pro.
Kana failed with horrible feet (replaced them thought instantly) and horrible TTC switches, pixart bugs got fixed however.

Kinzu v2 Pro for the omron, but the malfunction speed is retarded and its not usable for any lowsens gamer.

This is my demands for a good mouse:
* Low LOD on multiple surfaces, not just on a Black hardpad like 9HD

* Omron Switches ATLEAST on M1,M2, with good travel distance. MX518/G400, DA are all good. Xai is abit to stiff, sensei also quite good for example.
No TTC, its the worst thing possible, huga.
Huano is not liked by most and not by me either. Way to stiff.

* A sensor that is good at both low dpi and higher (400-1800 in my world)
Take the kinzu v2 pro, jitters like mad at higher dpi etc.
High perfect control and malfunction.
No acceleration like avago a9500

*2 Sidebuttons but only on left side, so tired of ambidextrous mice catering to the left handed ;)

* Prediction free (Although I break this rule myself with my logitech mice)

* Good buildquality with no sharp edges (I can basicly sever my arm with the kanas sharp edges)

*Centered sensor placement, stop moving the sensor people!

*For me a 800-1000dpi native non interpolated dpi is a must, because its my main dpi.
Also the reason all my older 400dpi mice are retired ;(

This mouse looks good, im not gonna lie.

And I will buy one for sure once they are on sale.

But I wont get my hopes up until its in my hand, because that might lead to yet another :( moment!

<< Comment #870 @ 18:27 CDT, 19 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #860

I think you will like the mouse from your descriptions.

I use it at 1000dpi and its fine :)

At 2000 dpi I can draw tiny little circles precisely (I am also a graphic designer so I appreciate precision in photoshop etc). I don't really like 2000 dpi since its too fast for me, but it seems alright if anyone wants to use it.

Heres a paint test from 2000 DPI: http://erasem.com/gallery/albums/userpics/100...t-2000.jpg

<< Comment #861 @ 17:32 CDT, 13 March 2012 >>

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By

Nivit

I am abit worried about the mousefeet though.
Small mousefeet like MX300,G1 etc tend to sink into quite some clothpads making the friction bad.

Again something along the lines of Logitech G3 feet is to me better.
Damn I really miss my G3 ;/

Is to to much to ask for a exakt copy of logitech G3 but with better sensor, hell skip the extra sidebutton. Just gimme my G3 with better sensor and I will die happy ;/ (After I got several orgasms from the mouse that is)

<< Comment #862 @ 18:25 CDT, 13 March 2012 >>

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Anonymous (83.204.227.188) - Reply to #861

"I am abit worried about the mousefeet though.
Small mousefeet like MX300,G1 etc tend to sink into quite some clothpads making the friction bad."

that is totaly true, i feel like the abyssus have perfect feet for that mater, it doesnt sink at all in the mousepad if you put pressure on it.

<< Comment #867 @ 17:40 CDT, 19 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #861

I know what you mean.

The feet on this mouse are pretty good though, they feel much larger than they are, somehow. So unless you press it into the pad *really* hard, theres no problems.

<< Comment #863 @ 10:11 CDT, 19 March 2012 >>

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By

Ramla777

Any recent updates on this?

<< Comment #866 @ 17:32 CDT, 19 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #863

Beta test versions of the mouse should be ready by the end of the week. They only take a couple of days to arrive so then I can send them out :) So I will be sending out emails soon, to the beta testers, asking their addresses.

Gotta admit its taking waaaay longer than I thought, but at least I know how long things take now. And the good thing is if people like this sensor etc I can put it into more mice and it won't take anywhere near as long.

<< Comment #873 @ 18:43 CDT, 19 March 2012 >>

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dogja - Reply to #866

can i be a beta tester :D ive used many mice

<< Comment #875 @ 19:40 CDT, 19 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #873

Hmm well, the beta testers have pretty much been chosen now.

If in the next few days I get a:
- pro player
- technical genius
- someone with good industry knowledge

Then I will make room for them. But there are already enough people in the beta testing who own or have used a lot of mice, so unfortunately you are a bit too late :( I really appreciate the offer though.

Having said that do send in an email to [email protected] because then I can contact you in future if you wanted to beta test any future mice :) or maybe someone will pull out and I can send one to you instead.

Heres some info from the OP:
------
- Beta testing
------
To everyone interested in beta testing, please email [email protected] or PM me on ESR the following :
- Your nickname and real name
- Email address
- Brief description of games played / achievements / technical knowledge / passion for mice, etc. Whatever you feel is relevant to beta testing the mouse.

And I will add you to the list of potential beta testers. Please see http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2218341#pid2218341 to see some info on how beta testing will work. Thanks!

<< Comment #876 @ 03:01 CDT, 20 March 2012 >>

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Ramla777 - Reply to #875

I emailed you but in case it got overlooked no harm in trying again.
www.youtube.com/user/Ramla777
I review pretty much every mouse. I play counter-strike on a pro level and quake near the top tier.
I know a lot about how mice work.

<< Comment #877 @ 05:48 CDT, 20 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #876

Yep, I've got it :)
I really should have sent confirmation emails but its a bit late now, however I will email everyone soon to let them know if they are in the beta test (or not), so no one is left guessing if their email got through.

<< Comment #872 @ 18:43 CDT, 19 March 2012 >>

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By

i'm definitely going to order one, but still.. when is the approximate release date? 1 month, 2 months? =]

<< Comment #874 @ 19:21 CDT, 19 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #872

Its so hard to guess, because I don't know how long some things will take, but this is how its going (from now until end):
- beta test mice are being made
- receieve mice
- send mice out
- beta testing start
- beta testing end
- implement any changes from beta testing (if necessary)
- receive new sample (if necessary)
- when all final, send for certifications (FCC/CE etc)
- launch website and allow pre-orders
- Make first order and wait for them to be made and arrive

Theres also a load of other bits which I didn't put in the list but still need doing at the same time.

So for example, since I don't know if the beta testers will need any changes, or how long exactly certification will take, its really hard to predict.

I thought it would be ready by about now, and tbh, it kind of is, I could release it now, I could skip straight to certification etc. But I think the beta testing is worth it.

So all I can really say about the release date is, its not a long way off, but I can say it will be longer than 1 month. After the beta testing I will have a much much better idea of price and release date :)

<< Comment #878 @ 07:13 CDT, 20 March 2012 >>

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»bst

1st post updated with some news and info about beta testing:
http://www.esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gam...velopment/

<< Comment #879 @ 10:22 CDT, 21 March 2012 >>

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bfsan

Will the mouse be available without the rubber coating when released? I really disliked the rubber coating on the death adder.

<< Comment #880 @ 12:41 CDT, 21 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #879

I can do it with a glossy top, but thats the only other option (can't do a grainy top atm). Not sure if I will do it or not.

I might be able to offer it in pre-orders, or later as a special edition,, and if it sells well, then I'll make it part of the range. I don't want to go too far with all the different versions though, especially at first.

<< Comment #884 @ 14:08 CDT, 24 March 2012 >>

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bfsan - Reply to #879

I think the IME/WMO 3.0/1.1 have a 'perfect design' . I do not like rubber coating nor grainy surfaces on mice, because they collect dirt. And rubber is easily damaged. You should see my death adder that has only been used for 2 weeks - compare it to my IMEs and WMOs that has been used for 2 years+ each.

Edited by bfsan at 14:18 CDT, 24 March 2012

<< Comment #881 @ 18:32 CDT, 21 March 2012 >>

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Anonymous (88.195.219.8)

I think you done great job trough here at this moment, but i want to tell you the most important thing what you should do differently than other mice product providers. Big word "Quality" keep switches on 1st grade guality and watchout D2FC-F-7N China switches, those broke very fast and same propably can happen to 10M switches as well.
so Rather japan than china on that part.

I beleave high price would not be a problem to anyone if the mouse is just worth it.

Scrollwheel axle should be metal, otherwise it brokes too quickly.

And then check the pieces what presses microswitches, there is many situations where those tap's wears out and cause again broken mice so maby metal plate would stop this happen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIR3MfrD7Gc

durability is more prize and i am ready to buy more expensive item if it last last and last :)

And now when all important part is done we can come to my own favorites and prefers, i really would like to see 2 more buttons on rightside of mouse ^^

Thanks for reading and all good for you and your mouse creating :)

Tom

<< Comment #890 @ 07:05 CDT, 25 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #881

Thanks for your ideas.

I'm not convinced about the metal however. The problem is that metal parts in those areas would need to be glued, so you would be relying on the strength and consistency of glue, rather than one complete piece of precision molded plastic. It could introduce variations and inconsistencies in fitment measurements, some of which have to be exact, down to 0.1mm. For the switches, its just not easily done, unless its designed as part of it from the ground up (there just isn't any room to add metal now, as the switches are already at their lowest point). Even then, it can still introduce inconsistencies between the feeling of buttons 1 & 2 (due to the fact that humans would be attaching them).

You can see some photos of the internals in the gallery:
http://www.erasem.com/gallery/
http://www.erasem.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/P3070275.jpg

The mouse uses high quality ABS plastic, and you can see in the gallery that the stalks for the switches are a solid 'chunk' of plastic, not just a little strip, so should last a very long time.

I think the final product will use D2F-01F on the main mouse buttons (1 & 2). I can't 100% promise it atm, but its likely, I am working on it. I really want D2F-01F too!

<< Comment #882 @ 06:14 CDT, 24 March 2012 >>

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lemming#13

Hurry up man :)

I want a good G1 replacement after soooooooo long!

<< Comment #883 @ 12:48 CDT, 24 March 2012 >>

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Anonymous (41.142.218.68)

Hey!

I'm not sure that's really important, but if you want to make your mice lighter, just get rid of the dpi button.
Noone cares about changing dpi on the fly (at least i don't lol), as long as you can change it in the drivers.

other people might have different opinions though. I don't know, just IMO'ing :)

Anyway, keep up the good work!
I am soooo looking forward to it :D

Rjven

<< Comment #886 @ 14:14 CDT, 24 March 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #883

Such a small amount of weight is nothing. It's like taking the brakes off of your bike to make it 1/5kg lighter: it's not worth the compromise. As long as the DPI button is remappable, it's useful; and I'm pretty sure it can be remapped.

<< Comment #887 @ 18:08 CDT, 24 March 2012 >>

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lesterchaos - Reply to #883

nm

Edited by redrock at 00:39 CST, 1 March 2013

<< Comment #888 @ 18:25 CDT, 24 March 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #887

Makes me wish you could independently set sensitivities for everything in battlefield 3. I heard you CAN, but you have to manually do it for every position in the cfg file or something.

<< Comment #889 @ 06:01 CDT, 25 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #883

I'm not going to get rid of the DPI button, but I can see what you mean. This is why the top PCB cable uses a plug to attach to the main PCB, instead of direct solder. So that means if people want to remove more weight, they can open the mouse and remove the top PCB without needing to break anything.

Btw, yes you can re-bind it to whatever you like. so it doesn't have to be a DPI button :)

<< Comment #885 @ 14:12 CDT, 24 March 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition

A one-month delay is nice for me; it's a chance to stop being a little bitch and get some money so I can actually buy this mouse.. and a mousepad.

<< Comment #891 @ 07:08 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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»bst

Damn it.

I'm getting really confused over switches.

At the moment the beta mice are ready to go but they have left the switches until last, so I can decide on them.

But they told me that D2F-01F has an operating life of only 1 million clicks, which makes it way less quality than D2FC-F-7N. I didn't believe it but looking at the specs of D2F-01F from Omron themselves, it really is rated at 1 million.

You can see it here:
Durability (see note 4) Mechanical: 1,000,000 operations min. (60 operations/min)
http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2f.pdf
However, looking at another datasheet for the same switch, it includes more information on page '33'. If the switch is installed so that there is 0.1mm overtravel, it has a maximum operating life of 4 million clicks, going down to 0.2 gives an operating life of under 2 million clicks, and 0.3mm gives a result of approx 650,000 clicks. So the best you can get out of it seems to be 4 million clicks. Here is the pdf:
http://www.components.omron.com/components/we...1007DD56F/$file/D2F_1110.pdf

Naturally I want to compare Omron's datasheet of the D2FC-F-7N and D2FC-F-7N(10M) with the D2F-01F datasheet, to see if there is a different method of rating them, but I can't find ANYTHING about the D2FC-F-7N.

Theres also another switch from Omron which I found, which apparently is very high quality and a better feel for fast clicks (ie pistol in CS):
D2F-F37(S)
or
D2F-F-3-7
But again, can I find out anything about this switch? Nope.

And of course, the chinese are in bed atm, so for every email I send I have to wait a day to get a response. So I try to find out all the info myself, and damn its such a ballache.

Stupid switches, why can't there just be a definitive switch of excellence ;)

Not sure why I wrote this really, except to let off some steam, but if anyone knows the BEST switch, let me know please... as fast as you can! :)

Edited by »bst at 09:53 CDT, 27 March 2012

<< Comment #892 @ 07:22 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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symphonic1985

We might need some Korean guys to find where Starcraft players have modded their switches and decided on the absolute best. Based on mechanical keyboards, I bet that there has been a lot of mouse modding too.

I think that the shell makes a huge huge difference though. CM Spawn has an awesome feeling click and is just using the standard D2FC-F-7N. Feels much nicer than all my other mice with this switch.

<< Comment #893 @ 08:20 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #892

Hmm your post made me realise something.

The lifetime of the switch could also be affected by the shell, when the button travels too far and causes the internal components of the switch to bend. Although it seems obvious, its not really a large amount... I wouldn't be surprised if there are mice out there whos switches fail a lot sooner than they should, just because of the shell. From that, could come certain myths about what is the 'best' switch, due to people not taking the shell into consideration.

As for feeling, fortunately my mouse feels very similar to the spawn buttons, except towards the back of the mouse it stiffens up a bit, because it uses a slightly different way of attaching to the shell than the spawn. Though this may work to its advantage where switch lifetime is concerned, due to less pressure on the switch from the fingers resting on the buttons (especially after the 2nd knuckle). However, I think its a case of what you prefer, since it can be more comfortable and responsive to be able click the buttons beyond the 2nd knuckle.

The main thing which gives a good button feeling when clicking very fast, is the button travel. If it goes too far, it results in a mushy feeling and 'missed' clicks when clicking fast (you can raise your finger for the next click, only to find the switch didn't deactivate, because you didn't raise your finger enough). So the shell should be made so that the button stops travelling at the correct point. This also has the added benefit of protecting the switch from too much travel.

This is how the spawn and my mouse behave, once you have clicked the button, it won't travel any further, and when you release the button, it instantly disengages. It might seem quite simple, but I have some mice in my collection which travel a surprisingly long distance after the button is clicked, and their "fast clicking" performance is a lot less consistent.

tl:dr:
1- Low button resistance on the shell, combined with exactly matched button travel to the switch specifications gives the best feeling for fast clicking, and protects the switch against excessive damage
2- Higher button resistance at the rear of the button, combined with the above (1), results in longer switch life due to less pressure placed on the switch from fingers resting on the shell's buttons (when the buttons aren't even being clicked).
- You make your choice which you require / prefer :)
- My mouse is like number 2, spawn is like number 1.

Edited by »bst at 08:38 CDT, 27 March 2012

<< Comment #894 @ 09:11 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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»bst

In light of what I have been finding out, I am going to ask for the 10M version of D2FC-F-7N for the beta samples.

At least that version is actually rated at 10 million clicks by Omron themselves, instead of D2F-01F which is rated at 1 million.

When the factory spoke to Omron about it, they said D2F-01F isn't any longer recommended for mice, not that its bad, but D2FC-F-7N series is the recommended switch which was designed with mice in mind. The D2F-01F is more multi-perpose. This is what I have been told, anyway.

One of the reasons why D2F-01F may feel more responsive in mice, when D2FC-F-7N is replaced with them, is because there seems to be a difference in height for the actual plastic pin which activates the switch. So, what basically happens is, about 0.25mm extra height, causes the mouse button to require less travel to activate the switch.

I think that is most likely why people like the D2F-01F, although when its used in that way, the lifespan is probably shortened quite a lot. Also it says "Japan" on it instead of "China", and has gold plated internal components as opposed to copper components. It sounds good, but is it? I'm not so sure any more.

I am more than happy to spend the money on D2F-01F if they are in fact better, but don't want to do it now there is a good chance they could be worse.

The only other one I am going to ask them to look into, is:
D2F-F37(S)
or
D2F-F-3-7
These are Japanese versions, so maybe the 'real' ultra-high quality switches people are after. The only mouse I know that uses it isn't a mouse, its called a 'roller mouse', seen here: http://ergo.contour-design.com/

<< Comment #895 @ 10:19 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #894

I found out some more info:
- D2F-F37 is the newer replacement version of D2F-F-3-7
- Its has a softer feeling than D2FC-F-7N, its more similar to D2F-01F, with more 'rebound' force.
- Another name for them is Omron Nissan Red Dot. Sounds cool xD

Here are some photos:
Bottom left:
http://i1.sinaimg.cn/IT/cr/2012/0319/1372621447.jpg
http://image.tianjimedia.com/uploadImages/201...1108-6.jpg
The older version:
http://img01.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploaded/i1/T1...10x310.jpg

Edited by »bst at 11:09 CDT, 27 March 2012

<< Comment #897 @ 11:58 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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satan_cutter - Reply to #895

OMRON JAPAN <3

Anyways if you want ultra, turbo, mega lasting switches take a look at zippy switches, they have some rated at 20.000.000 (yes, million) clicks. I haven't tried them yet in a mouse, but i had one logitech mouse with zippy switches, and they were pretty nice.

However, your conclusion that the shell influences button life and "feel" is right on the money. Most mice today, imho, are diseased by having a upper shell only from one piece of plastic. This causes a bad effect, when a button is pressed, the pressure isn't transfered completely vertically, which is a problem. Instead, the pressure line becomes a curve (you can figure out the rest). From the look of things, your mouse shouldn't be plagued by this.

me trolling: sent you a mail before, crossing my fingers i get to beta test:)

<< Comment #902 @ 14:17 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #897

Thanks, yeah, I saw Zippy switches today, I had never heard of them before, so didn't know what their life was. They sound good, 20M would be great. How do they feel and sound? Anything like Omrons?

The buttons on this mouse are one piece of plastic, but all mouse buttons that I've seen are attached to the top shell in some way, and so they all pivot on an axis. But even so, I know what you mean :). The thing that helps with this mouse, is the indentation line which allows the button to be pressed easier than if it didn't have it. Its something I'm aware of, but can't really do much about it atm. Maybe in the future I'll design a new one (or help a factory to design one which I'll buy), which has true vertical button presses, it would be attached to the base of the mouse shell rather than the top part of the shell.

<< Comment #914 @ 17:30 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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zealot - Reply to #902

all, am i missing the point? :)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41RWTBHQNNL.jpg
http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/periphera.../front.JPG
http://www.dansdata.com/images/logitechmx/mxs440.jpg

<< Comment #896 @ 11:58 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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Anonymous (93.138.101.230) - Reply to #895

OMRON JAPAN <3

Anyways if you want ultra, turbo, mega lasting switches take a look at zippy switches, they have some rated at 20.000.000 (yes, million) clicks. I haven't tried them yet in a mouse, but i had one logitech mouse with zippy switches, and they were pretty nice.

However, your conclusion that the shell influences button life and "feel" is right on the money. Most mice today, imho, are diseased by having a upper shell only from one piece of plastic. This causes a bad effect, when a button is pressed, the pressure isn't transfered completely vertically, which is a problem. Instead, the pressure line becomes a curve (you can figure out the rest).

me trolling: sent you a mail before, crossing my fingers i get to beta test.

<< Comment #899 @ 13:31 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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thuNDa - Reply to #894

it's true that the d2f-01f are some micrometers higher, but that doesn't cause the feel of more responsiveness.
The responsiveness comes from the activation point inside of the switch, which sits higher than the one from the d2fc's.

In fact the d2f-01f usually don't fit in mice which formerly had d2fc-f-7n.
When you just swap them, the d2f-01f switch will be pressed down from the shell right after ssembling the thing together.
Even with the "plunger" from the d2fc switches, they are still too high.

the d2f-01f's are problematic in another way too, which result from the actually higher responsiveness.
When the button is still some 0,1micro!!!meter too close, the button- releasing results in some annoying resonance in the mouseshell.

Edited by thuNDa at 13:32 CDT, 27 March 2012

<< Comment #901 @ 13:48 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #899

Yeah I found that out when I fitted D2F-01F into a roccat pyra, I had to shave off some of the button stalk.

I thought though, that since I had taken it from an old MS mouse, maybe it had a slightly different configuration, or that maybe I hadn't soldered it on well enough. The reason I thought it was because when comparing the D2F-01F with TTC 159, the measurements looked identical, and I thought the TTC 159 was the same dimensions as the D2FC-F-7N (which I have still yet to find a datasheet). I also noticed the Kinzu v1 Pro edition has D2F-01F, so I thought all the switches were interchangeable.

Its so annoying that datasheets are so hard to find, I mean don't Omron want to sell their switches? xD

<< Comment #904 @ 15:05 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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thuNDa - Reply to #901

AFAIK, the d2fc and d2f-01f had the same dimensions in datasheet actually.
only the tolerances were different.
I can't remember were i found it, but i think it was scanned in, so it was probably from some retailer.

<< Comment #898 @ 12:10 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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lemming#13

Go for the quality switches here. This is your first mouse and you are targeting a niche market. In other words I seriously hope you aren't trying to make a mass product right off the bat (and hope you never will coming to a mouse for gamers).

Your only way into this is quality. If that means 5 bucks more on the end product - thats fine for us I think.

<< Comment #900 @ 13:38 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #898

I agree, quality is the most important thing, along with the feeling, which includes the shape/weight and feeling of the buttons (no point in it lasting ages if it feels terrible Oo)

The whole mouse really is designed with the idea of forgetting its in your hand, so you're not constantly adjusting it or feeling like its the stop gap before the one you really want comes out.

The only thing thats really mainstream is the LED, but I only added it since it doesn't harm the niche appeal, I think it will be kind of useful for some people too.

<< Comment #908 @ 16:05 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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Ffleri - Reply to #900

Actually the LED as for now is the only feature I really don't like abut this mouse, so...

<< Comment #909 @ 16:15 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #908

What is it about it that you dislike?

<< Comment #916 @ 19:04 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #909

It adds .2 grams, so it must go!!

<< Comment #928 @ 08:36 CDT, 29 March 2012 >>

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Ffleri - Reply to #909

It's too new school. :)

<< Comment #913 @ 17:07 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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Anonymous (85.157.237.205)

D2F-F37 sounds good!

<< Comment #912 @ 17:07 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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By

I actually think the best switches I've felt are the D2FC-3M in the PureTrak Valor, but I think they're only rated for 1M clicks.

<< Comment #915 @ 18:18 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #912

Yeh those felt nice. Those were the only redeeming feature in that mouse sadly. What a shame. Oh and the cord was good too.

Edited by end0rphine at 18:19 CDT, 27 March 2012

<< Comment #903 @ 14:22 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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»bst

I found some more switches:
D2FC-FNT
D2FC-F-7F
Will have to check them out.. maybe buy all of these switches and use the really old sample as a reference to try out all the different ones and see how they feel.. its the only way really.

Right now I'm just going to go ahead with D2FC-F-7N for the beta test models, its just going to delay it too much to keep looking at switches. At least I can get opinions on how it is, and which direction would be best to go in.

<< Comment #917 @ 19:16 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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Anonymous (98.114.246.2)

You should really go with the AVAGO ADNS-3090 which is also used in the new g400(those with product ID higher than LZ13333):
Here's a review of the new sensor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX8vlwQ8A-c

http://www.avagotech.com/pages/en/navigation_...adns-3090/

And fact is dpi shouldn't be a concern when trying to sell a product.
You're catering to an educated customer base that what you have going for you. This is what sets your product pitch apart from all the other mice out there.
You need to capitalize on that. Don't go for a sensor with high dpi just because you think you can market it better.

<< Comment #918 @ 19:49 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #917

Current G400s are labeled S3095, not A3090, though you're technically right as the same architecture has been updated and used in many mice. (different numbers of course)

The whole product ID thing is misunderstood. The sensor was not changed, thought the SROM has been updated or should I say replaced with an angle snapping "OFF" variant.

A sensor isn't going to determine IPS performance nor cursor quality without other contributing factors such as lens mcu and led.

<< Comment #919 @ 20:33 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #918

So tracking quality (i.e jitter and what-not) has more to do with the lens, MCU and SROM?

Edited by end0rphine at 20:33 CDT, 27 March 2012

<< Comment #921 @ 22:06 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #919

From what I learned, its the whole package...
Like if you have a PC with a great CPU, but crap graphics card.
- Lens is like overclocking or downclocking, raising the DPI through the lens can reduce LOD but introduce jitter and lower the max tracking speed, lowering the DPI can increase max tracking speed.
- An insufficient MCU can limit tracking speed and quality, the MCU is used for a lot of things, it can be used to lower LOD, control LED colours, save data on its memory etc. As sensor data passes through the MCU, it can be modified.
- SROM is basically just the options available in the sensor, eg: sensor LED brightness, angle snapping, etc. As the name suggests it read only, you can't make new options there, thats what the MCU is for, you can only adjust settings that are already set by Avago. But some manufacturers like Razer and Logitech can ask Avago to load a custom SROM.
- LED differences are in the wavelength, consistancy, quality and brightness, which can affect LOD and tracking speed and quality.

I'm sure skylit will correct me on a few of those, but afaik thats basically it.

<< Comment #923 @ 22:38 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #917

Theres a chance beta testers are going to get 2 versions, the 3050 version and the 3090 version. Its still not confirmed 100% yet, I should know more tomorrow.

The only main difference between the 3090 version is it has different DPI steps, and it tracks better (but not really any faster) at higher DPI:

Avago 3050 DPI steps: 500/1000/1500/2000
Avago 3090 DPI steps: 800/1600/3200/4000

Other than that, both mice are set up the same. Price wise the avago 3090 version would be around 10 USD more.

You can also program both versions of the mice with the software, to set any DPI in steps of 50.

Edited by »bst at 22:40 CDT, 27 March 2012

<< Comment #924 @ 22:49 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #923

I would ask about a possible 400 reg.

<< Comment #925 @ 22:59 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #924

Ok, thanks :D

<< Comment #920 @ 21:50 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.111.213)

Try the mouse with Outerspace's Max IPS logger plz

<< Comment #922 @ 22:26 CDT, 27 March 2012 >>

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By

Skylit

Typically a higher sensor megapixel/s rating (cmos size x FPS) will determine how strong or weak a sensor is when scaling between both CPI and Polling values.

"Better" sensors can go farther without being subject to what's referred to as "ripple" according to Logitech.

There are multiple reasons as to why certain mice "jitter" though.

Edited by Skylit at 22:27 CDT, 27 March 2012

<< Comment #926 @ 21:40 CDT, 28 March 2012 >>

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By

jamalz

BST got an idea for ya, you're gonna do an OWL on the top(or side) logo amirite? do like see through plastic for the owl eyes, so the LED glows through them, so it looks baller as fuck. and make the rest of the logo cut out stencil style with metal lining or something awesome.

all of esreality will be on that mouse quick cuz we know whats up, but casuals love STYLE, so you gotta appease them brah.

make it look $$$$$$$

<< Comment #933 @ 20:23 CDT, 29 March 2012 >>

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Lorfa - Reply to #926

Kind of ironic that a 'mouse' would have an owl picture on it :-P

<< Comment #936 @ 05:13 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #933

Or a cat, or a snake xD

<< Comment #927 @ 22:37 CDT, 28 March 2012 >>

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By

veryOP

have the beta tester already been chosen?

<< Comment #929 @ 08:47 CDT, 29 March 2012 >>

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By

megaman3

ESReality or Cooller sticker.

<< Comment #930 @ 16:34 CDT, 29 March 2012 >>

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megaman3

btw you should really take a look at this
http://www.i-rocks.com/Product_detail.aspx?CL...CT_ID=1246
http://www.esreality.com/post/2243301/re-i-rocks-ir-7572-mouse/

<< Comment #934 @ 01:46 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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DeadJenkins - Reply to #930

It's just such a shame that the prediction is on.

<< Comment #931 @ 17:39 CDT, 29 March 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #930

Found your mouse bst hahaha
http://www.i-rocks.com/Product_detail.aspx?CL...CT_ID=1214

<< Comment #932 @ 18:02 CDT, 29 March 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #931

yeah it's the same oem shell

<< Comment #935 @ 02:59 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #931

I hadn't noticed that before, lol :D
Its the same kind of design, but not the same shell (there are differences all over).

<< Comment #937 @ 06:23 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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Anonymous (138.130.231.120) - Reply to #935

bullshit

look at it.

that is THE EXACT SAME SHELL you are using.

-_-

the buttons have a slightly different concave (maybe, hard to tell)

otherwise its identical.

<< Comment #938 @ 06:35 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #937

Wouldn't have it any other way.

<< Comment #939 @ 07:04 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #937

Nah, its not, its exactly what I said - same kind of design, but a different shell, made in a different factory. If you look at the pics you can see it, even though the differences aren't huge, it proves its not the exact same shell since it requires a 100% new mold to make those changes.

Edited by »bst at 07:06 CDT, 30 March 2012

<< Comment #940 @ 08:46 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #939

Nah, we just found you work for i-rocks.

<< Comment #941 @ 08:58 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #940

i-lol'd :)

Edited by »bst at 09:01 CDT, 30 March 2012

<< Comment #942 @ 09:01 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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oneroomdisco - Reply to #940

It's an OEM shell

<< Comment #943 @ 09:54 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #942

Actually its not, either irocks copied my factory, or the other way round. So I have to do some investigating now to find out what happened.

If my factory copied irocks, and it turns out to be an issue, then I may have to make some design changes. Not to the shape, but to how it looks, like the stripe running down the back or something.

So when ppl say I am lying about the shell being the same, I wish I was, because I cba to go through all this when I have enough to do :p

Edited by »bst at 09:56 CDT, 30 March 2012

<< Comment #944 @ 10:01 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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oneroomdisco - Reply to #943

Those people have no idea what they're talking about so I wouldn't worry too much. Sucks that it happened, just bad luck.

<< Comment #945 @ 10:16 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #944

Yeah, I don't think its a really big deal tbh, just annoying, because I thought it was unique ;) (or at least unique in the gaming scene).

<< Comment #946 @ 10:30 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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oneroomdisco - Reply to #945

Honestly i-rocks isn't really that popular. It will still be new to 95% of the people that see it. If it was a Razer shell or something then it would be different.

<< Comment #949 @ 10:49 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #946

Yeah I suppose, seems to be quite popular in Korea, but other than that its pretty dead in the west.

<< Comment #947 @ 10:39 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #945

most probably they copied your design. For example i-rocks might have asked the factory about any new shells or interesting projects to make, and they just ripped you off.

Edited by -=AvengeR=- at 10:40 CDT, 30 March 2012

<< Comment #948 @ 10:48 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #947

Yeah, could be.

The factory I use has been around for over 15 years, and has about 300 mouse designs (slightly more than irocks lol), and 99% of them are unique, thats what attracted me to them in the first place. So it wouldn't surprise me, it happens all the time in China.

Anyway I have emailed the factory to find out more. Should get a reply on monday.

<< Comment #950 @ 11:00 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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oneroomdisco - Reply to #948

Is that factory's shell catalogue public? I'd like to take a look if I could.

<< Comment #951 @ 11:04 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #950

Sorry, nothing personal, but I don't want to share what factory I'm using with anyone.

<< Comment #952 @ 11:05 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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oneroomdisco - Reply to #951

No worries!

<< Comment #953 @ 16:27 CDT, 30 March 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #944

It's a joke bro.

<< Comment #954 @ 19:04 CDT, 1 April 2012 >>

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»bst

Some news:
Emails are going out tomorrow (mon 02 April) to let everyone know who is in the beta test :) Sorry it took a while.

Also found some switches with rated quality of minimum of 20 million clicks! Its too late to fit them in the beta samples for the A3050 version, but might be in the A3090 beta samples.

<< Comment #955 @ 21:22 CDT, 1 April 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #954

Have you personally tested the 3090 versions? Just curious what you think of it.

<< Comment #957 @ 09:19 CDT, 2 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #955

Not yet, the beta test samples will be the first. Although this factory is really good imo, they should be really nice! But if there are any issues I will have them fixed before the final version.

They know all about jitter/lod/tracking speed/tracking quality, I've been taking to them about it for ages now and they know how picky I am :)

<< Comment #956 @ 04:35 CDT, 2 April 2012 >>

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SwarmDMX - Reply to #954

OMG! - I haven't received a beta tester email :( WAAAAA!!!
Oh well - you lucky guys that did better do a good job :)

<< Comment #958 @ 09:19 CDT, 2 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #956

Check your email again ;)

<< Comment #959 @ 16:27 CDT, 2 April 2012 >>

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SwarmDMX - Reply to #958

Yay! Thx man - looking forward to testing this out - can't wait!
:D

<< Comment #971 @ 20:39 CDT, 5 April 2012 >>

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toggl - Reply to #958

In my email it said I had until April 9th to sign up on the site, but on here it says beta testing signups stop march 23rd?

:[

Edit: Oh! Only the application process is done by March 23rd. I'm dumb

Edited by toggl at 20:53 CDT, 5 April 2012

<< Comment #972 @ 22:26 CDT, 5 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #971

Yes thats it, sorry for any confusion!

Edited by »bst at 22:27 CDT, 5 April 2012

<< Comment #960 @ 21:06 CDT, 3 April 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition

http://www.erasem.com/images/dpi_mode_explain.jpg

Website and help file buttons are mislabeled.

<< Comment #961 @ 22:05 CDT, 3 April 2012 >>

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lesterchaos - Reply to #960

bst, can you explain the smooth filtering setting?

<< Comment #963 @ 07:32 CDT, 4 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #961

If you play quake, its like m_filter, its mostly for if you use more DPI than the sensor natively supports (it doesn't really do anything otherwise). It averages mouse movement, so if you set x2 dpi, then it won't skip pixels. Its a bit like what steelseries have on the sensei, the MCU filters the tracking. It does of course cause a tiny bit of lag with mouse movement though, thats why its optional.

Those driver shots weren't meant to be public, because they're a little old now and still being worked on, but doesn't really matter :>

Edited by »bst at 07:38 CDT, 4 April 2012

<< Comment #964 @ 13:03 CDT, 4 April 2012 >>

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lesterchaos - Reply to #963

If you decide to have mouse smoothing please allow us to turn it off in the software.

<< Comment #965 @ 13:49 CDT, 4 April 2012 >>

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thuNDa - Reply to #964

http://www.erasem.com/images/dpi_mode_explain.jpg

<< Comment #967 @ 18:24 CDT, 4 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #964

Yep I agree, and already is optional, just tick the tickbox if you want it, or leave it unticked if you don't.

<< Comment #966 @ 14:09 CDT, 4 April 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #963

I thought they might not be, but then again, they were right there in the base directory so you obviously weren't trying super hard to hide them :)

<< Comment #968 @ 18:28 CDT, 4 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #966

Yeah, it doesn't really matter :D

<< Comment #962 @ 07:28 CDT, 4 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #960

Yeah I know, hehe ;) Its been sorted. Thanks for spotting it though!

<< Comment #969 @ 20:43 CDT, 4 April 2012 >>

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blackmesatech

Looking forward to this in so many ways.

<< Comment #970 @ 04:59 CDT, 5 April 2012 >>

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Puzzler

Where to buy? 8)

<< Comment #973 @ 16:17 CDT, 6 April 2012 >>

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NuFon

So what shell have you desided on now. :)
Because the one I think you have decided seams to have buttons on the left side only and is still ambidextrous. Oo
You could make a design as the kana or the intelli 1.1, with the oversized button on each side, that would be pretty good for those who like side buttons and those who use it for their daily browsing.
The people who don't use side sidebuttons can still live with it considering you put them on sorta the topside of the mouse and they are somewhat "hard" to press, but not too hard to make the rest of the guys who use them complain.
Sensor wise I think the sensor in the g400v2 and the DA is the least faulty sensors on the market or that's what OCN has given me the picture of. But the 3050 is cheaper and still pretty good if you can get the firmware fixed. :)
Now on to the scrollwheel, I personally don't like the feel of the mechanical wheel with tiny bumps in it. I prefer a mechanical wheel with more indentation or the even cheaper optical wheel used by logitech which last for ever. :D
And my personal request is to not make it too big in the back, I sometimes get a discomfort there because of mice being either too heavy or touching me wile gaming in the back. :D
Sorry for so much to read. :)

<< Comment #974 @ 18:31 CDT, 6 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #973

Thanks, shell is like in the gallery: http://www.erasem.com/gallery/
But when its beta tested, I'll see if people think something should be changed or not.

The thing is with the buttons, is, although it kind of looks a bit strange being ambidextrous and only having side buttons on the left, I think a lot of people like that setup. I mean right handed people who like the ambidextrous shape, but don't really want or need buttons on the right side. Though I know people like the IMO1.1 style too (including me, I used one for years and really liked the right side button), but there wasn't anything out there like it. So its something for the future maybe :)

The beta test is for 2 types of sensor, the 3050 and also the 3090 (basically the same sensor as the G400v2 and DA). So will see what happens with them. Btw, there are quite a few people from OCN on the beta test - Skylit, Bullveyr. Derp, Haiiyaa, h8m3, Ramla777.

Its hard to explain the scrollwheel, but I think it feels good, its quite smooth and quiet, but also has distinct indents too.

Can't really say much about the back of the mouse as it depends so much on how its held, and the size of your hands, but I wouldn't call it big.

<< Comment #975 @ 21:10 CDT, 6 April 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #974

What are the differences between the 3090 and 3050? There are almost 1000 posts in this thread and I really don't want to look for a discussion on the topic.

<< Comment #976 @ 21:45 CDT, 6 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #975

Theres a lot of technical differences, but In a nutshell the 3050 is really great for low-mid sens players, its really perfect imo. The 3090 is the same at lower dpi, but the tracking quality is better at higher dpi, and also it can go to 4000 dpi vs the 3050 which can go to 2000dpi. The 3050 is a bit cheaper than the 3090, so if you don't need the 3090 then you can save money by getting the 3050.

<< Comment #977 @ 22:05 CDT, 6 April 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #976

Then I guess I should get the 3090 for my 6cm/360 ;)

<< Comment #984 @ 06:13 CDT, 8 April 2012 >>

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Puzzler - Reply to #976

But the CM Storm Spawn uses a 3090 and I recognized a extremly bad issue with it. Described in the other thread "flawless sensors etc"

<< Comment #985 @ 06:46 CDT, 8 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #984

Hmm but that can happen if the mouse is rotated a bit so its not perfectly straight when you move it left to right and vice versa, it would do exactly that.

I noticed a similar thing with the xornet - if I try and write letters with the xornet, it comes out reverse-italic, just because I'm not used to the shape and how to orientate the mouse.

What happens if you move the mouse using the scroll wheel as a vertical axis reference from which to determine the horizontal axis with a right angle?

Edited by »bst at 06:51 CDT, 8 April 2012

<< Comment #986 @ 08:21 CDT, 8 April 2012 >>

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Puzzler - Reply to #985

I investigated this issue 10k times. I absolutely exactly move the mouse horizontal from one end of the pad to the other.

to the left to right it always goes up, from right to left it always goes down. Its such fucked up, that I am back to WMO now.

And I had this issue with Razer Lachesis back in the days too, when it was just released.

And I cant understand why I am the only person who recognize thi issue. -.-

<< Comment #990 @ 02:54 CDT, 9 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #986

I will be looking for it, and if I can replicate it, then I will try and have it fixed :)

<< Comment #980 @ 07:48 CDT, 7 April 2012 >>

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Thirst

I don't know if the top side dpi button is easy to press but it would be nice if it was easy to click with just the slide of the finger to the side like the g100.

http://imgur.com/QowQA

The picture doesn't exactly show how easy it is to access but its easier than hitting the middle mouse button.

<< Comment #983 @ 04:24 CDT, 8 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #980

I think I know what you mean, just raised a bit so you can slide your finger across and it registers. At the moment its not like that, it needs more of a deliberate action. Not sure how easy it will be to change it, but I will ask. I think if I make it a sort of ^ shape (but stretched horizontally if that makes sense, so it kind of fits between your fingers), it will be the best of both worlds, easy to press when you want to, but not in the way when you don't want to.

<< Comment #979 @ 07:47 CDT, 7 April 2012 >>

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NuFon

What grip is this mouse going to be best for?
I've never actully owned a WMO. :P
Because if it's big fingertippers got a problem and if it's too small palmers will get a problem aswell. Hoping it will be a fingertipper though.
Because most of the fingertip grippers I know are using a ridiculous amount of sensetivity and then it's a must to go with the 3090 sensor. (I'm a low sens fingertipper myself.)
The big companies have failed to make a good fingertip mouse, with a decent sensor lately.
If you can make a succesful fingertip mouse the market can't actully compete, because none of the huge brands can't make a small fingertip mice, because they are focusing on kids buying things that are shiny. :)
Please make it big enough the claw, but still small enough to fingertip atleast. :P
The market has enough good palm mice, aka the G400 and the DA.

<< Comment #981 @ 08:03 CDT, 7 April 2012 >>

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random99 - Reply to #979

Why don't you read the first post?

- Shape similar to logitech G1/MX300
- Size: (LxWxH) 117.5 x 61 x 38 mm

This should be perfect finger/claw grip mouse. \o/

<< Comment #978 @ 07:47 CDT, 7 April 2012 >>

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resis

Hello,

when can we expect the release of this mouse?

Is low LOD a focus, or secondary?

<< Comment #982 @ 04:17 CDT, 8 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #978

If everything goes smoothly then I hope for June release date. But seeing its my first time bringing a gaming mouse to market, or anything much like it, its really hard to predict :( (like, I don't know if there will be some delay with certification etc).

Low lod is a focus, but not too low, 1.5 - 2mm seems to be the sweet spot for good mouse mat compatibility, and 2mm is where it is for the 3050 version at the moment, I don't know about the 3090 version yet because I haven't got them yet, but should be the same or maybe a bit less.

Edited by »bst at 04:54 CDT, 8 April 2012

<< Comment #987 @ 09:39 CDT, 8 April 2012 >>

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rockz ' - Reply to #982

how much money did u spent to create this mouse?

<< Comment #988 @ 00:47 CDT, 9 April 2012 >>

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resis - Reply to #987

@rockz, that is not the kind of a question to ask I think, but I'd like to know how much we have to give for it. And how is it going to be distributed? Only on your site, or big fashion (Amazon, etc).

I wonder, the top shell has those two grooves, looks like it is made of three parts. Is it functional, or just design? These things make mice harder to clean and to keep clean. The less parts the casing is made of the better, usually.

The button on the top (between the keys, behind the wheel), is it a dpi switcher?

Is the mouse going to be ambidextrous? I see the sidebuttons only on the left side in the pictures.

Otherwise the mosue looks great and professional. Looks comfortable. I find that slim rear more comfortable compared to the WMO/Steelseries mice rear.

<< Comment #989 @ 02:23 CDT, 9 April 2012 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #988

I know big.. but try searching a bit at least.. please. :)
(all those questions are answered..sorry tiresome). EDIT:1st was valid (thought you meant the ones towards the buttons.. sorry :)

Edited by Tobbe at 03:24 CDT, 9 April 2012

<< Comment #992 @ 03:00 CDT, 9 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #988

1) shell - I agree but theres nothing I can do about it, if I get to design one in future, it won't be like that
2) Its a dpi switcher by default, but can be re-bound to anything
3) It has an ambidextrous shape but is meant for right handed people, there is a version without side buttons too, which is real ambidextrous

<< Comment #995 @ 14:19 CDT, 9 April 2012 >>

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random99 - Reply to #992

Will version without side button be available at the same time as version with buttons or will it come later?

<< Comment #991 @ 02:57 CDT, 9 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #987

I'm not going to say, besides its not finished yet so it wouldn't necessarily be accurate anyway ;)

<< Comment #993 @ 03:08 CDT, 9 April 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #982

JUNE??? :(

<< Comment #994 @ 08:06 CDT, 9 April 2012 >>

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By

slylol2010

This looks great can't wait to give this thing a go.

<< Comment #996 @ 13:05 CDT, 13 April 2012 >>

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lemming#13

Are we going to hear from your beta testers soon or don't you want them to give open feedback before the mouse is released?

<< Comment #997 @ 14:37 CDT, 13 April 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #996

I don't see why he wouldn't want the feedback to be open unless he expected it to be bad. We already know practically every single thing about the mouse, down to the PCB and sensor, so there isn't anything to hide.

So I assume the feedback will be available to everyone.

<< Comment #1015 @ 13:38 CDT, 22 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #996

Well the beta test forum is private, just to keep it tidy. But the beta testers are free to talk about it on here or wherever they like. They don't have the mice yet, since the 3090 version was a last minute decision (they will get both versions together), so when they have the mice I am sure you will hear about them :D

<< Comment #999 @ 07:01 CDT, 15 April 2012 >>

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By

Just take my money already bst
Where can we throw it at?

<< Comment #1001 @ 17:01 CDT, 16 April 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #999

Well, I've learned through trial and error that your monitor isn't the place to throw it. Process of elimination!

<< Comment #998 @ 07:01 CDT, 15 April 2012 >>

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By

Does that mouse have a name yet? Or shall we just call it BST Godhand mouse?

<< Comment #1000 @ 15:32 CDT, 16 April 2012 >>

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aerial - Reply to #998

maybe NMO new mouse optical

<< Comment #1020 @ 10:56 CDT, 24 April 2012 >>

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c1 - Reply to #1000

how about EMO esr mouse optical or elite mouse optical
or AMO advanced mouse optical

Edited by c1 at 11:03 CDT, 24 April 2012

<< Comment #1002 @ 18:15 CDT, 17 April 2012 >>

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Anonymous (65.31.210.158)

I just came upon this today. The pictures at the top represent the mouse I've been waiting for... This is almost exactly what I have pictured in my mind for at least 7 years.

Something similar to the Logitech Pilot Mouse that I used 10 years ago. Only with a modern optical sensor that can at least do 800 or 1000 DPI well, two left-side small buttons, lightweight, slight \_/ shape to the body, dpi button to switch higher for certain game situations, etc.

It appears you've nailed it, and if it works well i'll probably buy 6 to be safe.

<< Comment #1012 @ 02:26 CDT, 22 April 2012 >>

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Ramla777

bumping this to see if there are any updates and to find out if t he 3090's ever came in

<< Comment #1014 @ 13:32 CDT, 22 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1012

I heard from the factory on friday, they are still running tests on the 3090 version, shouldn't be that much longer though. I'll try and get more info in the next couple of days.

<< Comment #1016 @ 14:20 CDT, 22 April 2012 >>

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random99 - Reply to #1014

Yay! \o/ I really hope everything goes fine and final version comes with 3090 because since I tried 3055 (Logitech's customized version of 3050) I have become conviced 3050 could very easy be cause of failure of this nice project. In other words: it seems 3050 sucks.

Edited by nex.hr at 14:20 CDT, 22 April 2012

<< Comment #1017 @ 22:00 CDT, 23 April 2012 >>

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lesterchaos - Reply to #1016

I'd like to see the 3090 in this mouse as well. I just hope bst can include a 4000 dpi (even if it's not native) for those tank maneuvers.

<< Comment #1018 @ 05:38 CDT, 24 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1017

4000 dpi is a native setting on the 3090 sensor since a few months ago since Avago updated the SROM, the native DPI steps are now:
800/1600/3200/4000
(they used to be 1850 / 3500 or something like that)
But if you use the software you can choose in steps of 50, so eg you can have 400 if you like.

<< Comment #1022 @ 13:08 CDT, 24 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1017

Also in the software, when you choose a custom DPI, I might make it like the 3050 version, where you can double the max DPI, so on the 3090 it would be 8000, it doesn't really hurt anything to do that, so might as well have it.

<< Comment #1013 @ 10:20 CDT, 22 April 2012 >>

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By

^^ this

<< Comment #1019 @ 07:50 CDT, 24 April 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (188.165.201.115)

Hello bst, three questions:

1. How stiff will the normal buttons be? I'm a Diamondback 3G user and the buttons can almost be pressed with blowing at it. As a very high sens player I can't shoot on a mouse with harder buttons as that fucks up with aim too much (more pressure = difference . That's the only reason I'm still playing on a mouse without functional mouse wheel (any Razer basically?)

Yes, it's not uncommon to press mouse2 (+zoom here) accidentally. I don't want a mouse without this problem. I want a new mouse with this problem. Don't try to fix this problem in your mouse. Please? :(

2. I love Roccat for what they did with driverless mouse. I'd play on the Kova if the hard buttons wouldn't make it unusable for me. You promise profiles that will make the mouse work without drivers, but I do need to load them somehow onto the mouse...

As a Linux user, I have only 5 (out of 7) buttons available on my Razer and can't switch the freaking light off. Will it be the same with your mouse? As I said, with the Roccat all of that is a button combo.

Alternatively, if I set the additional top button to act as button 6 (if possible) on a friend's Windows box with your drivers, will it comply with normal USB standard to work when I take the mouse back home?

3. Mouse wheel position on the pictures seems a bit too far back, or is that only my perception?

I'm a fingertip gripper using thumb+pinky to hold the mouse, pointing and ring finger on left/right buttons and middle finger (which is the longest!) on the wheel. I've heard this isn't common which I don't understand, but if so, can this mouse support my mousing style? Oh yeah, I have long fingers.

Yes, it should be possible to just have whole hand more to the back, but then the main buttons need more force to be pressed, which, as I've explained previously, is the worst problem that can happen to a mouse. So I would want to press the main buttons as far to the front as possible, to need less force.

Wow, this post came out long.

<< Comment #1021 @ 12:59 CDT, 24 April 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1019

1. If I divide the button up into 6 equal parts, with 1 being at the very front and 6 being at theback, you can see the force it needs to press:
1= 15g
2= 15g
3= 20g
4= 35g
5= 50g
6= 105g

At the 'extreme' back of the button near where the line is, it becomes a lot harder to push, as that is where it joins, but its about a 2mm area.

Its just a really rough idea, I just pushed the button on the corner of some postage scales until they clicked.

For comparison, the Xornet I have starts out with 30g at the front and 120g at the back (in between it raises in force in a similar way to mine). In practice I can't really notice a huge difference between the two.

Overall it needs only a light touch, not the lightest in the world, but to me it feels just right, I don't think I'd want it much lighter or heavier.

Also another important thing is how far the buttons can be pressed down. The case should stop the button just after the click, since theres no reason for it to go further. It can cause some problems if its not right:
a) More difficult to do rapid clicks in succession
b) Mushy feeling
c) More potential damage caused to the switches, shortening their lifespan
Happy to say my mouse doesn't have that problem.

2. I haven't actually tested the drivers on Linux yet, I will do it soon. But it should be fine, although you will have to use a windows PC to set it up. The mouse doesn't need the software installed to remember the settings, so I don't see why it wouldn't remember settings when you plug it into a Linux PC. In essence all the roccat is doing when holding down the buttons, is changing settings in the MCU in the same way mine does with the software, so its the same thing (the mice you would get problems with are the ones that need drivers installed on the actual pc to use the features).

3. The mouse wheel is a bit far back, not hugely, but it does feel further back than a WMO for example, by about 2-3mm or so... something like that anyway. I use fingertip in windows and it feels like its in a really good place for that grip. In quake I palm it, and I think it may be nicer if it was a bit more forward, but overall it hasn't bothered me in a big way.

I honestly don't know how it will work for you, I tried to hold it in the way you do, and it feels quite nice, I never used that grip much before, but it felt pretty natural, and didn't have any problems with the scroll wheel. The light weight really helps too. But its just so hard to say if its going to work for you, even though I held it in a similar way, it might feel completely different for you.

Edited by »bst at 12:59 CDT, 24 April 2012

<< Comment #1025 @ 06:07 CDT, 25 April 2012 >>

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Anonymous (188.165.201.115) - Reply to #1021

1. Thanks, I never touched a Xornet myself, but if your mouse is two times "softer" than a random other gaming mouse, it's a very good sign already :)

Happy to hear there are anti-wear and pro-good-feeling measures in place as well!

2. If I need to use friend's Windows computer only once, then that's ok.

Also for IRC anti-Linux trolls: at work I have a Windows workstation but without admin rights, so it's the same problem with my Razer.

(Yes, QL can trivially be made portable and played without "installing" anything)

Please test the small button in mouse6 function on Linux when you get to it, thanks! :) Can't wait to have more buttons available!

3. Guess we'll see if it works for my fingers! Thanks for confirming my observation :)

<< Comment #1023 @ 16:36 CDT, 24 April 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1019

If I hold my mouse like that, I have no control and press mouse1 whenever I try to use the scroll wheel :(

<< Comment #1024 @ 06:07 CDT, 25 April 2012 >>

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Anonymous (89.90.99.114) - Reply to #1023

depends on the mouse too. It feels natural with an abyssus because every fingers just fall in good place without effort, not so much with a wmo where the fuckyou finger can sometime click or scroll without your consent if you are not careful. You have to always lift it a little bit.
I think it's better to hold the mouse that way for guys with long fingers like OP and me because otherwise pinky tends to get stuck under mouse when you move it to the right.

<< Comment #1026 @ 08:15 CDT, 25 April 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1024

fuckyou finger

:D

<< Comment #1027 @ 08:25 CDT, 25 April 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1026

roflmao

<< Comment #1028 @ 10:08 CDT, 25 April 2012 >>

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bfsan - Reply to #1024

Don't mean to troll, so no offense, but...

>otherwise pinky tends to get stuck under mouse when you move it to the right.

How is that even possible? I have seen this mentioned a couple of times on the net, and it is a mystery to me how this can occur.

>with a wmo the fuckyou finger can sometime click or scroll without your consent

I don't understand this either. I can only judge from my own mouse usage, so maybe the agility of ones fingers are a lot more different from person to person than I imagine.

Edited by bfsan at 10:12 CDT, 25 April 2012

<< Comment #1029 @ 02:58 CDT, 26 April 2012 >>

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Anonymous (89.159.129.212) - Reply to #1028

maybe you hold your mouse like you drink your tea: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4mmI0BNxamM/ThXGnYU.../pinky.jpg
and it's no problem for you :D

There is just not enough place on the mouse. As simple as that.
If only 2 fingers on top, pinky is pushed to the right and you have to force it against the mouse or it fall naturally. (or you have to use the mouse dem0n-style)

yeah for the other point idk. That's maybe just the wmo scroll that is too sensible? I just know that I can't let the middle fall I always have to lift it a bit. Also clicking with ring finger makes middle slightly move.

<< Comment #1030 @ 07:21 CDT, 26 April 2012 >>

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dek

duno about u guys but i shoot and scroll with my pointing finger, middle finger on 2nd mousebutton, ring finger to lift the mouse and pinky for feel and traction, who the hells runs the mouse over their fingers... maybe missing some muscles in it?

<< Comment #1031 @ 02:49 CDT, 28 April 2012 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #1030

If the side-bottom edge is LARGELY rounded or angled in, it happens. For me anyway with some brand before. (I grip like dek +pinky grip/feel).

<< Comment #1032 @ 19:54 CDT, 1 May 2012 >>

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By

Release still set to June? Diablo 3 is out soon, my hand is craving a new claw grip mouse. BST take my monies already!

<< Comment #1033 @ 11:36 CDT, 2 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (62.183.155.183)

Hey Bst,

I've been following your mouse development for a long time.

I'd like to ask you one thing, could you please future-proof your mouse and make it use USB 3.0?

We're getting native support in win8, and some newer mobos already. They might even add native support in win 7 sp2 thats soon due.

using for reference :
http://www.overclock.net/t/1251156/an-overvie...technology

USB 3.0 brings many new enhancements over the old usb 2.0

"A Special Note on Future USB Specifications
The USB 3.0 specification dramatically changes the way that a host and HID-devices communicate. The basic data flow and transfer concepts are preserved, while some packets or specifications have been integrated or removed entirely. A few notable changes in dataflow should be mentioned.

A dual simplex connection is now being used which allows packets to leave and arrive simultaneously; these transfers are also no longer serial in nature (where packets must finish before the next begins). SOP packets have been replaced by isochronous timestamp packets (ITPs), while token packets have also been removed (IN is replaced by the handshake packet, while OUT has been incorporated into the data packet). SuperSpeed USB also supports continuous bursting for all types of functional data transfers, unlike USB 2.0. Also note that in the USB 3.0 specification continuous device polling has been eliminated and has been replaced by asynchronous notices.

This last note is of particular importance as each device now sends data when it is recorded; it is still host controlled, but in a different way that no longer limits packet sizes. A SuperSpeed interrupt can move up to three maximum sized packets per service interval (125µs, formerly known as a micro-frame), meaning that the maximum theoretical rate at which data can be received by the host is every 41.6µs, the equivalent of a 24000Hz polling rate in USB 2.0 terms*. The size of a service interval (125µs) represents the minimum theoretical rate of data transmission, or what would roughly equate to a 8000Hz polling rate in USB 2.0 terms*."

I'm not too sure how much this would add to your pricing, etc, but if it's minimal, I wouldn't personally mind.

Usb 3.0 is compatible with previous versions too, so people with usb 2,0 / usb 1.0 can still use it.

I'm really looking forward to your mouse and gonna order many of them if it won't have any major flaws, I just hope it will be able to work as USB 3.0 does, taking advantage of that new tech. I will probably order it anyway, just a wish :)

Thanks!

<< Comment #1034 @ 12:18 CDT, 2 May 2012 >>

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SwarmDMX - Reply to #1033

Future proofing is not a bad idea - after all I hope the mouse would last a few years, and I could see USB 2.0 being phased out over that time.

But as far as performance goes, I have a hard time telling the difference between 500hz polling (2ms input lag) and 1000hz (1ms). So if you are saying that 8000hz polling would be possible on USB 3.0 then that would be 0.125ms input lag i.e. virtually none at all - but could anyone really tell the difference?

Neverthelsss, I'd buy the USB 3.0 mouse everytime lol :D

<< Comment #1038 @ 18:43 CDT, 2 May 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1033

I don't see any MCUs yet which take advantage of USB 3 Oo Even the new ARM Cortex ones. So I think its something for the future. It does look good though :)

<< Comment #1047 @ 02:13 CDT, 4 May 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #1038

You'll hit a Windows Limitation regardless.

Way too premature to implement.

<< Comment #1036 @ 14:01 CDT, 2 May 2012 >>

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8000Hz would be too CPU hungry tbh. 1000Hz is more than fine.
From what I've gotten, the mouse is almost ready, no need to delay more for USB3, it prob won't change a thing, performance wise. Maybe in a few years, when USB3 is the norm. But right now, it's not needed. Just marketing crap.

<< Comment #1035 @ 14:00 CDT, 2 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (62.183.155.183)

If I understand it correctly, there won't be any polling at all, it will be completely interrupt based, and the interrupts can move up to 3 max sized packets per 0.125 ms, so delay between data will have 0.046 - 0.125 ms delay.

Plus, packets can arrive and leave simultaneously and they don't need to finish completely before new one is sended. :)

<< Comment #1037 @ 14:53 CDT, 2 May 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df

wtb update

<< Comment #1039 @ 19:17 CDT, 2 May 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1037

The factory is being really picky over the 3090 version, so its been delayed until a couple of weeks away. You could say its my fault, as its my pickyness which causes them to be so picky, lol.

I know its taking a while, but it simply takes as long as it takes, to make it perfect. So although it takes a while, its a good thing, too many things are rushed these days, I don't want to do it like that.

People may get annoyed by delays, but I think its nothing compared to how people will feel if they get a product which isn't as good as they hoped! And this sensor set up will most likely go into other shapes, so its really important to get it right first time.

Hope everyone understands, its all in the open, unlike when its behind closed doors, you get to see all the delays, which normally no one would know about. Normally a company would announce their mouse when they are really sure about its release date.

I still think the release date will fall inside June, but like I said before, its just so hard to predict, I wish I had gone with the 3090 sensor in the beginning and it would be done now, but nothing I can do about it now :<

<< Comment #1041 @ 19:21 CDT, 2 May 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #1039

thank you for the update. I'm very saddened that it's been delayed but getting this right will most likely make or break everything so I understand.

I just want my flawless mx300 replacement :'(

<< Comment #1043 @ 00:50 CDT, 3 May 2012 >>

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Xen_Crypt - Reply to #1039

you can't predict the release date, because the mouse doesn't have prediction xD

<< Comment #1046 @ 12:46 CDT, 3 May 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1039

This this the correct way to do it.

Much appreciated!

<< Comment #1040 @ 19:18 CDT, 2 May 2012 >>

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jamalz

yo bst while your at it, start designing a mousepad (make it have a clip holder for your mouse cord, or a bungee built into the sumbitch'

<< Comment #1042 @ 19:22 CDT, 2 May 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #1040

YES

<< Comment #1044 @ 03:53 CDT, 3 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (88.168.207.34) - Reply to #1042

seconded

<< Comment #1045 @ 07:26 CDT, 3 May 2012 >>

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Plaisi - Reply to #1040

a 60x45cm one :<

<< Comment #1048 @ 06:33 CDT, 4 May 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1040

Too busy atm, but I will do it, I already found some mouse pad factories :)
Not sure about the built in bungee/clip, I have got an idea for a separate product though.

<< Comment #1049 @ 08:15 CDT, 4 May 2012 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #1048

If you make a cloth pad. Please do NOT sell it rolled up.

Steelseries has rectified themselves with their game picture qck, which are flat packed cloths (probably just because they want to show the picture though).... but I want them BLACK and flat packed, and can't find any.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPTy6m-Ce30 unboxing

edit: slim one and "heavy" ~5mm cloth too. ^^
/off topic

Edited by Tobbe at 08:44 CDT, 4 May 2012

<< Comment #1050 @ 08:35 CDT, 4 May 2012 >>

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random99 - Reply to #1049

I have Qck Heavy that's absolutely driving me crazy. I left it few weeks under 5 kilos of weight and damn thing is still not flat. :/

<< Comment #1051 @ 08:41 CDT, 4 May 2012 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #1050

Yeah I also tried the heavy one.. used it...tried to weight a month ... and used a few weeks after.. had to throw it. :S (good feel on it too :S)

<< Comment #1052 @ 09:16 CDT, 4 May 2012 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #1051

Artisan mousepads !

<< Comment #1057 @ 14:02 CDT, 4 May 2012 >>

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croaton - Reply to #1052

How would I procure one, I've been trying for some while.

<< Comment #1060 @ 02:44 CDT, 6 May 2012 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #1057

On their official site !
http://www.artisan-jp.com/all_eng.html

<< Comment #1066 @ 03:28 CDT, 7 May 2012 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #1060

I actually heard of it but I'm reluctant.. it should be wider available, even the main form.
There certainly is a market, and there is still no "heavy" cloths in this packaging.

Edited by Tobbe at 03:36 CDT, 7 May 2012

<< Comment #1067 @ 06:14 CDT, 7 May 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1066

I want to get in contact with them and look into seeing if they will make some pads for me, or I can resell some of theirs over here. I think I'd prefer that instead of doing my own, for the time being anyway. Just got to see how open they are to it.

<< Comment #1089 @ 11:09 CDT, 10 May 2012 >>

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Harps - Reply to #1067

having a reseller of Artisan mousepads in Europe would be amazing! I have wanted a shiden-kai mid (large) for a while now, but can't understand anything on their website!

<< Comment #1054 @ 10:17 CDT, 4 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (199.48.147.46) - Reply to #1048

I don't know what surface is best. I like the smoothness of glass/metal/plastic. Although, I do prefer the comfort of thicker and transportable cloth pads. I haven't tried a Qpad CT -- I wonder if that is the overall ideal combination.

One of the most important things is not to have any graphics on the pad unless it is small and off to the edge. Also one consistent texture/pattern.

With a Razer DeathAdder BE any change of contrast or texture throws off the mouses' tracking. Oddly black cloth seems to be the most reflective surface for that sensor, which increases lift-off distance, the horror.

<< Comment #1053 @ 10:17 CDT, 4 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (199.48.147.46)

The Avago 3050 sounds good. The max CPI isn't all that important for FPS games unless playing at high resolution and prefer high sensitivity. I personally like 1800 CPI or less, as my CS sensitivity would be very low. If it was higher I would run out of adjustment like in other games.

I don't want any forced prediction. No negative acceleration or positive. High IPS and low lift-off of 1-2mm. Would that be the 3050 or 3090? The paper specs of the 3090 would sell more mice, but don't we have enough under-performing high CPI mice out there?

I had a Razer DiamondBack Plasma which was a S3668, the same as the original DeathAdder, I think. I liked it but it suffered with negative acceleration on the pad I was using and I believe it had prediction. If your mouse is better in every way than the DB Plasma I will buy it.

The DA 3.5G is great with the exception of its pickiness with surfaces. The lift-off is way to high for me. If its buttons are the same as the DB Plasma I won't be surprised when I need to replace the mouse in the not so distant future. Is the DA 3.5G's sensor a "modified" 3090?

You guys would know more about the science of the 3050 and 3090, but I feel that a CPI of 1500 or 1800 are the ideal max CPI. A 2000 CPI should be enough for almost every competitive gamer. Those COD kids will love a 4000+ CPI sensor, obviously.

<< Comment #1055 @ 11:13 CDT, 4 May 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #1053

A3050 takes smaller pictures. It's a weaker sensor when it comes to actual quality of the tracking. Specifically, it's more apparent over the 1000 CPI range of this sensor when you factor multiple polling rates and what not.

A3050 only has one srom available. Im pretty sure Avago released this sensor without an angle snapping option.

A3090 has the option of either on, off, or both if you're able to load both variants to the same controller.

High IPS is doable with a decent controller and firmware combo, but I wouldn't count on lift off distance being that low in conjunction with high tracking speeds. It's possible, but likely something that will take awhile to get down. (Unless BST wants to have the factory experiment swapping hardware)

A3090 is more like a slightly modified S3888.

<< Comment #1058 @ 19:30 CDT, 4 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (217.115.137.222) - Reply to #1055

Would a weaker tracking sensor be less prone to erratic behavior on mouse pads with graphics?

The DeathAdder's sensor seems sensitive to changes in color or texture of surfaces. Even if it is small debris. Is that a trade-off to get the higher IPS? Which in return increases lift-off distance? The DA doesn't use a lens like the Zowies'? Would having a certain lens and shell design allow for a high IPS while having a low LOD?

I rather have a lower max CPI to get a mouse that works well on black cloth surfaces and has a small LOD on said surface. Didn't the original 3G Razer have a chip that also detected visible red light which made the LOD lower? Why not do that?

I would like to see physical switches for CPI and polling rates on the underside. So you don't need drivers or be reliant on the memory to hold your setting like the DA (the button on the bottom is nearly useless). I know this would only be useful for people who take their mouse places, don't have access to install drivers or just hate to have them installed in the first place.

<< Comment #1056 @ 12:27 CDT, 4 May 2012 >>

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horf

put anti cs and cod software

<< Comment #1059 @ 22:02 CDT, 4 May 2012 >>

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terrorhead

I want

<< Comment #1061 @ 22:35 CDT, 6 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (173.254.216.67)

I was looking at Avago's diagrams for their sensors. When I was doing that it is obvious why the Razer DeathAdder has a higher lift off distance. The older DA had a processor that picked up visible red light. So with that the sensor would register light differently. Giving you a lower LOD. With the newer PCB and modified sensor it registers only IR light, which made the sensor work "better". Increasing the LOD.

Zowie took the Avago sensor (supposedly the same as DA) lowered the CPI and had a custom lens made to decrease their LOD. Otherwise the LOD would be the same as the DA 3.5G. I say this because if you take some opaque tape and use it to obstruct the area where the lens directs the LED's light the LOD decreases to about 1.2mm. The same as the Zowie EC and AM.

So Zowies' lens obstructs passage of light to lower LOD. That means if you used the same type of lens you can have a lower LOD. Maybe Zowies' lens will fit a DA. This might lower the perfect control speed though.

This is speculation on my part, but I feel I am more right than wrong.

I think the best thing to do is focus on the performance of the 1800 CPI @ 1000HZ step using a lens that brings down the LOD and still has great perfect control. As this step is the most universal. Then try to make a 4** CPI @ 500HZ work as good as possible for the lower sensitivity players. The 800 and 3500 steps are irrelevant.

<< Comment #1062 @ 22:45 CDT, 6 May 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1061

A lens doesn't obstruct light, it refracts and, redirecting the light at a tangential angle to decrease the height at which it is picked up by the sensor.

<< Comment #1065 @ 01:40 CDT, 7 May 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #1061

The difference actually comes from the PCB design opposed to sensor modification, micro controller, lens.. etc.

-Like you've stated, the original OEM's PCB does good with both red and IR waves.
-The new and or current OEM's does better with IR waves and has a slightly higher lift off distance regardless of hardware similarities.

Sensor wasn't modified or changed since DA launched. (We'll I suppose it was when you consider srom and firmware differences from 3G>3.5G. But that doesn't explain the the lift off increase from two separate PCB models using the same hardware and firmware Aka 3G s3668 v2 + v3.)

Funny thing. Zowie uses Razers original OEM, but with a custom lens opposed to Avago's offering. You're right about the sensors though. A3060, A3080, A3090, S3888, S3668, S3095.. etc. should all the be same on hardware level and differ by SROM. I wouldn't call native lift off the same as the original 3.5G DA, but it should be close or at least considered high by many of you here. (A different type of LED or color can also change this significantly)

Zowie's lens wont fit the DA. Different design :D Lower perfect control speed might be correct though. Zowie's original magnification used with the A3060 is higher than Avagos 1.0x :)

PS: A3090 has a newer srom with multiple CPI choices. 800-1600-3200-4000 and defaults @ ~400.

<< Comment #1069 @ 06:17 CDT, 7 May 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1065

What is it exactly, about the PCB design, that gives a lower LOD? Oo

<< Comment #1072 @ 15:43 CDT, 7 May 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #1069

I don't know at this point. Circuit design can influence tracking though.

<< Comment #1070 @ 08:22 CDT, 7 May 2012 >>

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thuNDa - Reply to #1065

But that doesn't explain the the lift off increase from two separate PCB models using the same hardware and firmware Aka 3G s3668 v2 + v3.)

I'm still not convinced, that this was generally true.

I had one of the low LOD 3G rev.2(stopped tracking complety at the height of 2 CD's on a QcK), but i also had rev.2's which had a comparable LOD like the rev.3's.

What was visible on the low LOD rev.2, compared to a rev.3 i had that time, was the weaker light of the IR-LED on the rev.2.

<< Comment #1071 @ 14:55 CDT, 7 May 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #1070

I'd assume it's a change in LED then. Interesting.

Edited by Skylit at 14:57 CDT, 7 May 2012

<< Comment #1073 @ 01:57 CDT, 8 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (176.9.106.116) - Reply to #1071

Which would be more inline with "my" theory – the way light is used with the sensor determines overall performance.

Like others said, I'm starting to think too, is that the DeathAdder is a 3090 sensor with custom changes done, thus new name.

If you look at Avago's lenses one appears clearer than the other. So wouldn't the "dirtier" lens reduce the light passage thereby decreasing LOD? With the DA I take one piece of clear tape and place it over the area that the lens directs the light and then I use permanent marker to tint the tape. With one layer of tape the LOD doesn't decrease noticeably if at all. When you add another layer of tinted tape the LOD decreases to under 2.4mm. So maybe using a red LED or a lower powered IR LED would give you great perfect control speed but a LOD under 3mm. I think that will be the case because Zowie changed their lens which seems to decreased their tracking performance.

So the focus likely should be on the LED over the lens. Whether that is using a red LED, a processor that registers visible and IR or IR only with a lowered powered IR LED.

Most of the mice on the market (if not all) are OEM with companies' personal changes done to firmware and slightly different surrounding components based on cost (for the most part). There are about 6 mice out there with the same sensor but with different performance because of the companies' marketing strategy and profit margin expectations.

<< Comment #1076 @ 06:21 CDT, 8 May 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #1073

Like I've stated A3090, A3080, A3060, S3888, S3668, S3095 etc.. should all share the same physical hardware. They differ by SROM. (3x9x may have some limitations flash wise, dont ask)

A3090 came out after S3888 btw. Your theory works backwards though :P

And yes, that is correct. A majority of the market is OEM'd with specific companies (which I won't list off here in good faith). Theres a few that are not such as Logitech or I-Rocks, but they do or are the OEM for other companies. Heh.

Edited by Skylit at 06:23 CDT, 8 May 2012

<< Comment #1074 @ 04:19 CDT, 8 May 2012 >>

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acid_reptile - Reply to #1061

In my opinion the distance from the shape to the mousepad shouldn't be to smal (like on the zowie AM). I did quite a few mousemods in the past and think that smallest change in mousefeed size can make the sensor feel much better. I even think that every mousepad has its on perfect distance (for every DPI and even pollingrate) Perfect solution would be changeable lift-off (not auto lift-off like on the xai for example)

<< Comment #1084 @ 14:31 CDT, 9 May 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1074

in fact it can easily be done with avago 3090, you can get SQUAL(surface quality, values from 0 to 164) in realtime and choose limits of cursor lock/unlock in mouse driver which will be flashed on MCU so once you start lifting the mouse and the surface quality drops under 70 for example(cause the surface becomes less focused, less light etc) the sensor movement starts being ignored by MCU and once you put it on the mousepad again and squal goes above 90 for example the movement is counted again. These limits are usually set to some fixed values in different mice. For example they were slightly adjusted in DA to lower the lod and different firmwares for CM storm also got those values different so all have different LOD, however no single mouse got it adjustable by user.
I'm participating in one enthusiast mouse project, where it's adjustable though(also the LED intensity to adjust LOD even more and other stuff) http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11777259/210057.png I believe that bst could implement such changeable SQUAL limits later if there would really be any demand to change LOD, and it doesnt require any hardware change so that wouldnt really delay the mouse release.

Edited by h8m3 at 15:43 CDT, 9 May 2012

<< Comment #1086 @ 01:33 CDT, 10 May 2012 >>

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Bullveyr - Reply to #1084

Afaik Dharmapoints LOD adjustment works that way but I don't know how well it actually works there.

<< Comment #1063 @ 23:07 CDT, 6 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (62.197.40.155)

So what is the mouses' body going to be? A universal shape or a right hand ergonomic shape?

I am a palm grip player so I think I would like the right hand ergonomic shape over a universal shape.

http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/9272/oemrighthandpalmer.jpg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8576/zowieamuniversal.png

I had a DiamondBack and I could use it well but I didn't love it. The DeathAdder doesn't feel like they tried hard enough to cater to the right hand palmer – it's okay. I'm going to try out a Zowie EC1 eVo and see if I like it better than the DA shape. I always wanted to try out a Logitech but never have…

<< Comment #1064 @ 23:41 CDT, 6 May 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1063

Universal shape, similar to this shape. http://cfile9.uf.tistory.com/image/172CB9244C7048B743D87A

<< Comment #1068 @ 06:16 CDT, 7 May 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1063

Take a look at the gallery:
http://www.erasem.com/gallery/

<< Comment #1078 @ 05:50 CDT, 9 May 2012 >>

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teioh - Reply to #1068

Looking really good. Can't wait to try it out :)

<< Comment #1081 @ 10:17 CDT, 9 May 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1078

Cheers m8 :)

<< Comment #1075 @ 04:38 CDT, 8 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (80.33.169.229)

¿Do you have a Logitech Mx300, G1 or G3 to make a side by side picture with your mouse?

<< Comment #1080 @ 10:16 CDT, 9 May 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1075

I've got an RX250 which is the same shape as the mx300 etc, I'll post some comparison pics soon

<< Comment #1083 @ 13:05 CDT, 9 May 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1080

comparison pics added: http://erasem.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=2

<< Comment #1085 @ 21:30 CDT, 9 May 2012 >>

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acid_reptile - Reply to #1083

Nice to see that the shape is way more similiar to the mx300/G1/G3 than the G100.

<< Comment #1090 @ 17:22 CDT, 10 May 2012 >>

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random99 - Reply to #1085

Yeah, I don't really get all the people saying G100 is identical to MX300/G1 because it obviously isn't.

<< Comment #1092 @ 14:16 CDT, 11 May 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1083

This shape will be perfect for me. Get it done already ;)

<< Comment #1077 @ 07:51 CDT, 8 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (68.108.85.33)

Do you think down the road youll release a glossy/grainy finish (similar to the 1.1 se) ?

<< Comment #1079 @ 10:15 CDT, 9 May 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1077

Maybe at some point, its already grainy on the sides, and the top without the rubber paint is glossy. So wouldn't be that hard to do.

<< Comment #1082 @ 10:56 CDT, 9 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (91.156.239.247)

Have the beta testers got their mice yet?

<< Comment #1088 @ 07:57 CDT, 10 May 2012 >>

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toggl - Reply to #1082

No

<< Comment #1091 @ 19:04 CDT, 10 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.158) - Reply to #1082

I would like to test the beta mouse…Though I'm not an engineering guy or software developer – I am very observant and constructively critical.

<< Comment #1087 @ 07:18 CDT, 10 May 2012 >>

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eMbAh

looks awesome, when will it be available??

<< Comment #1093 @ 15:48 CDT, 11 May 2012 >>

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zoot

Really looking forward to seeing this mouse go in to production. I'll be one of the first making my order. Can I get limited edition printed on the mouse and some fun stickers? please oh please oh please??

:)

<< Comment #1094 @ 15:59 CDT, 11 May 2012 >>

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random99

Can I get version without fucking side buttons, pretty please? :)

<< Comment #1095 @ 20:46 CDT, 12 May 2012 >>

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o.Qv

Next step would be releasing a really good mousepad, which isnt as hard to get as the artisan ones ! <3

<< Comment #1096 @ 05:18 CDT, 13 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.59) - Reply to #1095

I just bought two Artisan mouse pads. Just waiting on the delivery. Bought the Shiden Kai and the Hayabusa. Might buy the Hien and Hayate too.

<< Comment #1097 @ 12:55 CDT, 13 May 2012 >>

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croaton - Reply to #1096

Haha, same here. Ordered Hayate, Hayabusa and Hien the other day..

I hope they're good ^^

<< Comment #1098 @ 18:30 CDT, 13 May 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1097

Where'd you get the Hayabusa? Artisan pages says it' still out of stock.

<< Comment #1099 @ 22:41 CDT, 13 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.61) - Reply to #1098

They must have sold out when you blinked. They likely give priority to retailers. We might have bought the last ones.

Just Amaz… I don't know how that site works in your country, whether the ship to you or not, both JP and US have some.

<< Comment #1100 @ 01:33 CDT, 14 May 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1099

You're right they seem to stock retailers like amazon first which is.. strange. thanks for the headsup

<< Comment #1102 @ 11:13 CDT, 15 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.140) - Reply to #1100

I received my mouse pads. I have two opinions of them.

First, the Artisan Shiden Kai Mid is my style of pad. I like its very low friction and it decreases the DeathAdders' lift off distance slightly. Whether that is because of the color of the pad or the surface. I had to lower my sensitivity. I might even have to lower my CPI.

Second, the Hayabusa. I have to warn you DO NOT buy it if you have a DeathAdder! I would say not to buy it all. The horizontal direction is fine. However the vertical direction makes the mouse jitter/bug out. I tested it with two different model mice and it did it on both. Much more so on the no prediction DeathAdder. Again do NOT buy this pad it is flawed. I am sending it back for a Hien or Hayate. Hopefully those don't have the same issue.

So the Shiden Kai I love and the Hayabusa I hate.

<< Comment #1103 @ 11:33 CDT, 15 May 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1102

that's your fault for not knowing the DA malfuctions with certain surfaces, not theirs.

<< Comment #1106 @ 14:28 CDT, 15 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.141) - Reply to #1103

Like i said, I tried a non DeathAdder mouse and it did the same thing. The vertical pattern causes the mouse to jitter. It is because the pattern is sewn in a prevailing vertical. So it acts sort of like a channel causing the cursor to jump when you are not 100% following the pattern.

I doubt most mice would work. It is just inherent to the combination of sensor and surface.

Most people do not even have a Hayabusa. I haven't heard or read anything about it not working with certain mice. So it isn't my fault that I didn't know if the surface (didn't exist to recently) would cause "malfunctions".

<< Comment #1101 @ 03:34 CDT, 14 May 2012 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #1097

I have the Hayabusa, and It seems that it only works with infrared sensor.
It doesn't work with Microsoft (WMO, IMO 1.1 and MS3.0) and Logitech (G400, MX518) mice... The sensor jitters along the vertical axis.

By the way, the Hien is the best pad I've ever tried so far.

Edited by fishbone_ at 03:35 CDT, 14 May 2012

<< Comment #1105 @ 14:28 CDT, 15 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.141) - Reply to #1101

Which infrared sensor?

The Hien doesn't have this issue like the Hayabusa? So it would be safe to get that? It would be cool to have a near frictionless mouse pad and a higher friction surface.

<< Comment #1107 @ 14:44 CDT, 15 May 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1105

yeah, hien is a safe bet

<< Comment #1104 @ 12:32 CDT, 15 May 2012 >>

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coME OOOOOOOOONN bst, what's taking so long? =) just tell them to finish it already! =)

when will the first test reports come out?

<< Comment #1109 @ 05:53 CDT, 16 May 2012 >>

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SwarmDMX - Reply to #1104

Calm down - BST clearly seems to know what he's doing and the whole point of this project is to get it right rather than rushing through yet another flawed mouse. The more time taken at this stage the less grief later.

<< Comment #1112 @ 09:46 CDT, 18 May 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1104

I'm really going as fast as I can (I talk to the factory every day doing all sorts of things), I can't predict how long it takes to develop a new sensor much better than any of you guys, theres a lot that goes into it (mostly tests), especially if you want to do a good job :D

All I can do is have the factory tell me ETAs, but thats all they are unfortunately, estimated. I don't think its going to be much longer though, all they're doing atm is linking the drivers up to it. The drivers are pretty cool, heres a pic of the drivers for the A3090 version:

http://erasem.com/images/driver_explain-A3090.jpg

(You can set it in DPI increments of 50 with a max setting of 6000 dpi. Or use the default settings: 800/1600/3200/4000)

<< Comment #1117 @ 13:41 CDT, 20 May 2012 >>

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c1 - Reply to #1112

i never liked driver with too much colors. intellipoint driver are kept simple and it looks professional.

<< Comment #1118 @ 03:05 CDT, 21 May 2012 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #1117

Yes custom menus always gives me the .."Hey! cool gamer kid here -Check out my cool non-system standard"... feeling.

Edited by Tobbe at 03:16 CDT, 21 May 2012

<< Comment #1122 @ 17:54 CDT, 21 May 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #1112

ya those drivers are trying to look fancy but it comes off as like a geocities shit webpage that nubs design, sorry brah

gotta make it sleek and sexy, not blocky and colorful like a fucking 7 yaer old kid drew some shit

<< Comment #1108 @ 03:38 CDT, 16 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (72.186.9.120)

you guys are going to have to wait a lot longer than you think. he still needs to go through certifications from the FCC/CE etc etc etc depending on what countries he plans on selling to. this alone takes about 6 months providing he doesn't go broke in the process.......

i work for an electronics company bst and if there is anything i can give you for advice on is to MAKE SURE you get a certification note from the countries you're certing in. make sure it's from the actual country and not some company claiming that the product is compliant otherwise you'll face a good $25,000 fine or just a denied of importing notice rending your product useless if you can't even sell it.

<< Comment #1110 @ 09:17 CDT, 16 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.62) - Reply to #1108

Then he should start now on a mechanical keyboard with Cherry's red switches, LED back light, tenkeyless, PS/2 NKRO, detachable cable, Costar stabilizers and PBT keys.

<< Comment #1111 @ 09:34 CDT, 18 May 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1108

Really, you think 6 months? Oo
I already know what the CE and FCC costs will be, don't think I'm gonna go broke lol. But thanks, I know what you mean about making sure its all legit.

<< Comment #1113 @ 03:02 CDT, 19 May 2012 >>

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Ramla777

Any updates?

<< Comment #1114 @ 10:50 CDT, 19 May 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1113

I'm finding out more on monday, at the moment they are making sure its going to work with the drivers, I'll let you know as soon as I get more info.

<< Comment #1115 @ 15:40 CDT, 19 May 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #1114

6 months is a huge time to wait, try to get Artisan mousepads to resell in the mean time, get HIEN TO ME IMMEDIATELY.

This is my genius idea, you try to combine your company mouse with artisan and take over the gaming world.

You start with yourself on your website (MUST BE A BALLER WEBSITE), introduce what you do, who you are, what you play and then explain that you've built a mouse for gamers by actual gamers of the fastest hardest gaming era ever, QUAKE players. (can include CS players) You've gotta mention mice and mousepads that you've liked during your past, and most ppl will agree with your choices and that will lead them to want to try your vision of a mouse.

You then introduce Artisan as japanese technology, as we all know them japs do things the right way.( nintendo/sony/honda)
And then explain that how their mousepads have captured your eyes as a long time fast paced FPS player.

Also have DKT/STRENX/RAPHA/ do some tests of the mousepads/mice and have interviews with them on your site. (you can try to get some other pro players by sending out free mousepads/mice to them to test.) SC2 for precision rts movements would help, but u dont have many buttons on ur mouse =/

What's especially important is to show a video from BEHIND someone good playing quake. with the mousepad/mouse combo. You show casual faggots how twitchy and fast paced quake looks (high qual settings for this) and what the players are doing looks way more impressive and accurate with your mousepad/mouse.

Also, contact http://www.slicksurf.com/ . The guy who sells these mouseskates, his skates are fucking high quality son and super cheap. i've tried hyperglidez and all others but this nig makes them GOOD and lasting.

So resell artisan and check slicksurf mouse skates and if you deem them as good as I do, resell that too, and you'll be shitting $$$$

Still like the name Aurora for your colorful mouse, sounds badass. The owl logo is also badass, cuz owls eyes glow in the dark, and nerds like us play in the dark. also owls fucking eat snakes (razers logo)

You can have a badass owl on ur webpage carrying away a 3 headed snake, as a bitchslap to razer letting them know whats coming.

shit son, if you get rich don't forget about poor jamalz, nawmeen?

<< Comment #1116 @ 15:56 CDT, 19 May 2012 >>

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veryOP - Reply to #1115

nobody cares about you celestial

<< Comment #2184 @ 02:00 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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gienon - Reply to #1116

Actually, I think his posts are more substantial and fun to read than the ESR average by miles.

<< Comment #1160 @ 23:07 CDT, 19 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1115

Well I am already doing or planning on doing most of those things, great minds think alike haha ;)

I don't know how accurate 6 months is.. I mean the mouse is designed to comply with FCC and CE specifications, using components which already comply, and the people doing it have done many before it, so its not like its a whole new thing. There might be some tweaks needed here and there, but I don't expect anything big.

I think Aurora is a nice name, I haven't really got a name for the mice yet Oo, but the company name is Ninox, and I think "Ninox Aurora" sounds good (everythings going to look like its part of the Ninox genus... lol).

I didn't know about slicksurf though, thanks for the link, maybe I can get them put on the mice as standard as well... I will talk to them :)

<< Comment #1119 @ 15:40 CDT, 21 May 2012 >>

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Electricman

I don't like small mice like Logitech G1, I have big hands, I and many others, like the shape of Logitech MX500 (MX518, G400), Razer DeathAdder shape is also not bad. So I think you should develop two mice :)
To Scroll wheel you need to use an optical encoder is much more durable than mechanical.
I think the side buttons should be larger as the IME 3.0
Well, the price, I think should not be higher than 35-40 euros.

Edited by Electricman at 15:43 CDT, 21 May 2012

<< Comment #1120 @ 16:21 CDT, 21 May 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1119

what's wrong with using g400/DA/zowie EC1/2? This mouse is being developed cause there's no light good mouse on the market, while there're lots of decent bigger ones

<< Comment #1121 @ 17:52 CDT, 21 May 2012 >>

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Electricman - Reply to #1120

Logitech G400 has no onboard memory, Razer - very low quality, Zowie have no drivers.
Logitech g400 would be excellent mouse if: add on-board memory, make a fully rubberized surface, increase size of side buttons, reduce LOD, slightly reduce weight.

<< Comment #1123 @ 20:44 CDT, 21 May 2012 >>

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toop - Reply to #1121

Zowie is good too at 450 dpi and light weight with rubberised top and side?
Whats wrong using G400 with 400 dpi @1000hz plug and play?
Why do you need shitty onboard memory anyway? LOD is not that bad on G400.

Weight is the biggest issue on people here that's why they want this mouse and simple shape with good sensor thats all we need playa.

People play fine with G400 Deathadder and WMO you will never have a mouse that you will like. You just need to make one for yourself.

<< Comment #1125 @ 05:36 CDT, 22 May 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1121

Zowie does not need any drivers. And there is nothing wrong with that specific aspect. Why'd you want drivers installed on your system? Software to set stuff - ok. But drivers for mice are a thing of the past.

<< Comment #1129 @ 16:39 CDT, 22 May 2012 >>

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Shuki - Reply to #1120

Razer krait, abyssus, Zowie mico, logitech g1?

<< Comment #1130 @ 23:27 CDT, 22 May 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #1129

gl finding krait, gl finding abyssus without jitter. other two suck if you use anything other than high sens

<< Comment #1133 @ 19:25 CDT, 24 May 2012 >>

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Shuki - Reply to #1130

Zowie mico is fine, Krait is easily obtainable from South Korea. Never used the G1 myself but meh still plenty of choice!

<< Comment #1135 @ 13:24 CDT, 27 May 2012 >>

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random99 - Reply to #1130

G1 has higher both perfect control and malfunction speed than WMO.

<< Comment #1124 @ 02:37 CDT, 22 May 2012 >>

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By

any news? :]

<< Comment #1126 @ 07:35 CDT, 22 May 2012 >>

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SwarmDMX - Reply to #1124

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?...

<< Comment #1127 @ 10:40 CDT, 22 May 2012 >>

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tourist

I'll wait for Severity Edition

<< Comment #1128 @ 13:00 CDT, 22 May 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1127

:D

<< Comment #1131 @ 05:56 CDT, 24 May 2012 >>

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Anonymous (89.46.162.38)

Hey mate, I've been following this thread for a while now and I just want to say that you're my hero, making the perfect mouse is what every mice making company is afraid of, there will always be something missing because that's what they want, for us gamers not to stop buying their products, but if your turns out to be the best, my friend, those companies will fall so hard there will be tunnels to the center of the earth every where.
That being said, do you have any feedback for the eagerly-awaiting?

Thx.

<< Comment #1132 @ 12:23 CDT, 24 May 2012 >>

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acid_reptile - Reply to #1131

making the perfect mouse is what every mice making company is afraid of

True story.

<< Comment #1141 @ 12:24 CDT, 3 June 2012 >>

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cx - Reply to #1131

take a look at table-tennis ... that racket is so simple from its form ...
yet there are still numerous producers materials, etc. ... everyone has his own style ... the perfect mouse will never exist ...

<< Comment #1134 @ 23:19 CDT, 25 May 2012 >>

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jamalz

hrmmm i'm what they call the idea man, i got tons of great ideas in my head but no way to make them a reality, i can't code fuck, i don't have any money to invest and niggas naturally don't trust me cuz i look devious as fuck, like ima take yo money n run away, naw'meen?

but ima help you out BST cuz im chill n shit.

you got a new mouse being manufactured for FPS quake players(mainly) which has amazing specs and feedback.

look what is coming out soon man. SHOOTMANIA STORM. a new fps from popular trackmania guys,

this is obviously the correct play to get in touch with them and try to negotiate a deal, by supplying them a mouse to test (and subsequent mice for prizes/give aways) and see how they react to it and the players of their game will try it to see if they like it or not. Of course they will and it will help promote both products (the mouse and their game)

you can get their SHOOTMANIA storm logo and shit on top of your mouse name or corporate name and they can use ur mouse as the official gaming mouse (cuz u supply them for cheap) and do giveaway prizes for top players in the fucking game every month.

this way you both win and hit the ground running when you come out at the same time. also the game has STERMY/STRENX and other quake pros that you can ship ur new mouse to and have them test it and play with it in tournaments, this is the FASTEST, EASIEST way to get ur mouse hyped and out there.

Go through SHOOTMANIA STORM, and you will be a rich man.

(don't forget jamalz tho mofo or ima come wit my gat to ya house, ya herd?)

<< Comment #1159 @ 22:30 CDT, 19 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1134

Hi m8, I think thats a cool idea if I had been going for a while, but as a new company I think its a bit too much. I want to start small and get a good foundation, then when I am sure I can handle it, move onto those kinds of things.

I am going to sponsor some tourneys though, with cash and mice for prizes.

<< Comment #1164 @ 06:11 CDT, 20 June 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #1159

I just want ur mouse, hurry up man, take my money!

<< Comment #1136 @ 11:04 CDT, 31 May 2012 >>

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By

Rjven

any news?

<< Comment #1137 @ 13:41 CDT, 31 May 2012 >>

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By

croaton

Are we there yet?

<< Comment #1138 @ 02:37 CDT, 1 June 2012 >>

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By

5perm

Every thought about pressure sensitive buttons?

http://youtu.be/uPy4Rml0-A4

The Dualshock ps2 controls uses them. Maybe the shootmania guys could use them for there game.

<< Comment #1140 @ 04:39 CDT, 3 June 2012 >>

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kale - Reply to #1138

Hey,

I would guess stuff like that could be useful for photoshop, but I think these type of "real" pressure sensitive are quite expensive. Similar stuff is used in many keyboard instruments, and the ones with pressure sensitive trigger for each key costs 10 times more than a regular MIDI keyboard controller ( +-5000 euros instead of 500 )

I would say that ribbon controller below thumb buttons would work much better, and I think those are cheaper too, but still quite weird feature. :D

<< Comment #1142 @ 09:27 CDT, 6 June 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1138

not many applications support that.

Also all ps3 buttons are pressure sensitive. Probably you won't find that fact over the interwebz because literally no one cares about them, besides some Microsoft research that ended up in nothing "yet".

<< Comment #1139 @ 03:57 CDT, 1 June 2012 >>

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resis

Can't wait.

<< Comment #1143 @ 03:59 CDT, 8 June 2012 >>

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Anonymous (62.216.115.102)

http://www.esreality.com/post/2262317/#pid2262317

News were bad.

<< Comment #1144 @ 06:59 CDT, 10 June 2012 >>

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o.Qv

Hey Mr.bst... its time to feed the waiting horde some info !

<< Comment #1145 @ 08:12 CDT, 10 June 2012 >>

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random99

http://www.overclock.net/t/1240739/bsts-gamin...t_17439253

<< Comment #1146 @ 10:17 CDT, 10 June 2012 >>

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By

Puzzler

Just wanted to let BST know that here ist still waiting money for that mouse!!! Work harder...faster....whatever...!!!!

<< Comment #1147 @ 15:11 CDT, 10 June 2012 >>

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lemming#13

Just check out #1166. All's good.

<< Comment #1148 @ 18:20 CDT, 12 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1147

Yeah everything is fine, there just hasn't been much to say until now The sensor and PCB for the 3090 version is done, so its not going to be much longer at all now.

Sorry I forgot to get back to you Ramla, although I didn't really get any news myself until just recently.

To be fair to them it hasn't really taken any longer than the 3050 version, but I don't know why they gave me the optimistic ETAs at the start Oo

<< Comment #1151 @ 15:19 CDT, 19 June 2012 >>

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Anonymous (84.251.133.193) - Reply to #1148

Are you going to make version with side buttons on both sides? Like true ambidextrous mouse.

<< Comment #1153 @ 17:17 CDT, 19 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1151

Sorry, not on this mouse, but there is a version without side buttons, which is the true ambidextrous version.

<< Comment #1156 @ 19:18 CDT, 19 June 2012 >>

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Anonymous (84.251.133.193) - Reply to #1153

You had concept of WMO -like mouse, which (i think) has 2 extra buttons on both sides. (http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/4049/bst1.jpg)
Have you made any plans about this one yet?

Btw, are you shipping these mouses from UK? I guess ordering to finland, is not that complicated then :P

<< Comment #1158 @ 22:11 CDT, 19 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1156

Mice like that depend on how well the current mouse sells, because it takes a lot more money to develop a new shell. If I can do a new shell then I have some ideas for useful features, some which I don't think have been done yet, and some which I think are big improvements over the designs that currently exist.

I'm more interested in the OEM shells at the moment though, because theres a lot of good ones to choose from, and they don't need time to make molds or worry about anything in that area, since they're already being produced.

The plan for 2012 is to release:
1) The current mouse with Avago 3090
2) A cheaper mouse with Avago 3050
3) A mouse mat and some other small mouse accessories (a mouse mat will probably come in between 1 and 2 though)

Then I think that will be a nice small range for mice. After that, in 2013, theres a lot to choose from:
- OEM keyboard with cherry switches
- more OEM mice
- new mouse design
- headset / headphones

I want to do all of them ;), but not sure which I would do first, though the headphones are lowest priority.

Hope that gives you a better idea of the sort of plans I have and the timescale for it all.

<< Comment #1161 @ 04:49 CDT, 20 June 2012 >>

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Anonymous (84.251.133.193) - Reply to #1158

Thanks for the answer. No need to ask unnecessary questions from now on. Damn, might buy this one just to support you. Also mechanical keyboard would be cool, if you make it stand out from the crowd, 20 key NKRO, nice led system etc. I hope this thing is success :)

<< Comment #1149 @ 14:36 CDT, 15 June 2012 >>

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By

Gabriel_Ruan

Pre-orders tomorrow? :3

<< Comment #1154 @ 17:18 CDT, 19 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1149

I wish :D

Pre-orders won't be open until at least 2 weeks into beta testing, so I know what kind of price it will be (just in case there are any things which need changing that affect the price).

<< Comment #1150 @ 03:02 CDT, 19 June 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (79.177.233.44)

Hey bsts
I have few questions
1.IM from Israel , will i be able to order your products?
2.How long shipment usualy takes?
3.What about warranty?
4.As a low sens player that used many mice right now i feel my old 1.8 DA is the best Track feeling ,wich mice i should buy from u?3090/3050? i usualy use 400-500 dpi and 500hz.
5.do you know how well the mouse will work think QCK pads?

if there is a way i can order you mices to israel...let ,me know i will help advertise them in our big forums to help other kids dont waste there money !

my email is [email protected]
i got sick of spending my money on "HIGH END MICES" that work like shit!
OLD DA so far my best purchase

thanks bsts!

<< Comment #1152 @ 16:54 CDT, 19 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1150

1. Yes (from our main website). Most countries are fine, although Russia can be a bit tricky, but should still be fine.

2. It depends what delivery service you choose, but usually a courier will deliver within about 5 working days, and normal mail can take up to 3 weeks. I don't have exact prices for the courier delivery to Israel atm, but I know its expensive - about £25-30 (when you go through the checkout it will let you know). Standard delivery will be a lot cheaper.

3. The warranty atm is going to be 1 year, the standard procedure is you would have to send the mouse back to the UK (or maybe USA) for replacement. I understand though that that can take a while. The best thing I can suggest is to buy two mice if you worried about it and can afford to*. I would like to make it easier in future, so that people don't have to send their mice back for obvious faults (like a video upload support system), but it won't be possible straight away. Also, the warehouse system I use can be expanded to America and Asia regions, so there are more locations where you can return your mouse to (and also get cheaper delivery when you buy one).

* I hope it doesn't sound bad to say 'buy two mice', but I think its a good idea, since you get a much better warranty process, twice the rated lifetime of the components, a spare on standby in case of accidents, and for about the same price as one single "expensive" mouse.

4. I don't have the 3090 version yet (its coming in a few days), so can't say which one is the best, but the 3050 version is very good at 500 DPI. Atm the lowest DPI on the 3090 version is 800 DPI, but it is possible to add a 400 DPI option if I remove one of the other DPI steps (it has by default (native DPI steps): 800/1600/3200/4000 so one of them has to be removed to make room for 400 DPI). Also in both versions you can choose DPI in steps of 50 in the drivers (its pretty much the same effect as lowering the sensitivity in drivers to simulate lower DPI, but with about 120 steps instead of the usual 10).

5. The 3050 version works fine on the black QCK+ that I have, LOD is about 2mm and the max tracking speed is just as high as I managed to get on the puretrak talent pad (about 5m/s).

Just some more general info:
I have 8 different versions of the mice I can do...
1) 3050 version, with side buttons, rubber top
2) 3050 version, with side buttons, glossy top
3) 3050 version, without side buttons, rubber top
4) 3050 version, without side buttons, glossy top

5) 3090 version, with side buttons, rubber top
6) 3090 version, with side buttons, glossy top
7) 3090 version, without side buttons, rubber top
8) 3090 version, without side buttons, glossy top

I really only want to do the 3090 version (5,6,7,8) at first, numbers 5 and 6 may come a bit sooner than 7 and 8 though. I have no problems putting the 400 dpi option on it for low sens players. Then I can put all 4 up for pre-order and its a nice easy to manage lineup.

The 3050 version is something that may or may not happen in this mouse, at least straight away. I am still doing the drivers for it though, so its going to be available for me to put into this and other mouse shapes etc. The reason why I don't want to do it straight away, is because I think 8 SKUs on one mouse shell might be a hard sell for some retailers, and generally more confusing for everyone (including me), for it to be released like that.

I may save the 3050 version for this shell:
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7096/3b1t.jpg
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7770/3b2.jpg
That shell is really good value, and with the 3050 sensor being good value too, I think it will make a really good combination for price:performance. But there are also other shapes as well :>

Edited by »bst at 17:01 CDT, 19 June 2012

<< Comment #1155 @ 17:33 CDT, 19 June 2012 >>

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By

random99 - Reply to #1152

5) 3090 version, with side buttons, rubber top
6) 3090 version, with side buttons, glossy top
7) 3090 version, without side buttons, rubber top
8) 3090 version, without side buttons, glossy top

I really only want to do the 3090 version (5,6,7,8) at first, numbers 5 and 6 may come a bit sooner than 7 and 8 though.

Oh, crap. Give me number 8 now!!!!!1111111

Edited by nex.hr at 17:34 CDT, 19 June 2012

<< Comment #1157 @ 19:26 CDT, 19 June 2012 >>

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By

0x5f3759df - Reply to #1155

s/8/7

<< Comment #1163 @ 06:11 CDT, 20 June 2012 >>

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By

tifu - Reply to #1157

have whatever you want, just leave 5 to me!

<< Comment #1162 @ 04:49 CDT, 20 June 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (82.81.0.192)

Hey bsts thanks for the big answer
so your planing to make only 3090 versions ,it will be awesome to have 400-450dpi cause i realy like low sens and cant play with higer dpis...
1.if u make 400DPI on the 3090 it will affect the sensor/make problems?
2.with the 3090 there will be no accel/prediction at all ? right?
3.why the 3050 may or may not happen ? is that cause 3090 better sensor?wich one of them will be better for a LOW DPI/SENS player like me?
4.from what you already know... wich kind of pads will work best with the mices you make?cause i want to be ready when i get the mouse!
5.i heared there also few things that had to be good in a mouse
something like LOD and prefect speed? can you explain it abit?
6.is there a realse date soon ?^_^ i cant wait!

thanks for answers

<< Comment #1184 @ 16:01 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1162

1. I know 400 DPI is an important setting, so one way or another you will be able to use 400 DPI with it, and will be tested by the beta testers to make sure there are no problems.

2. I haven't used the 3090 version yet, but yes thats the plan - no accel. I asked for prediction to be optional, how well that will work I'm not sure yet, but if it doesn't work then it will be without prediction.

3. The 3090 and 3050 should be really similar when it comes to low sens. The reason why I am thinking of only doing this shell with the 3090 sensor, is because I can do 4 different shells with it (see: http://www.esreality.com/post/2279512/re-new-...pid2277451), but if I also do the 3050 in the same shell with the same options, then I have to have 8 different types of mouse in the same shell, which I think is way too much. So I think the 3050 is better for a new shell. Also the 3050 is a cheaper sensor, and I can make a really good value mouse with it if I use a different shell. I like the idea of doing the 3050 version for low-mid sens players who are on a budget.

4. I don't know about the 3090 yet, but the 3050 works really nice on Steelseries QCK, Roccat Taito, and Puretrak Talent. There will be more feedback soon.

5. LOD = lift off distance, which is just a measurement of how far away the mouse can be from the tracking surface before it stops tracking. Perfect speed means how fast can you move the mouse before it starts to produce errors, like negative accel or even worse, when it malfunctions and you end up looking at the sky or the floor. The 3050 is really nice in both areas imo, the LOD is about 2.2mm and the perfect control is really high, I haven't hit any noticeable negative accel, and it hasn't hit malfuntion speed at all.

6. I can't predict a release date until after the beta testers have used the mice and the specifications are all agreed upon, then I have to have the mice certified for CE and FCC home and office use, which has to be booked in but hopefully it won't be a long wait, although thats the last thing which is difficult to predict, after that they have to be made, which is a lot more predictable than the development stage, so at that point I will have a release date. But I will keep everyone updated on how each stage is going.

<< Comment #1188 @ 19:16 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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Anonymous (217.190.127.73) - Reply to #1184

"3. I like the idea of doing the 3050 version for low-mid sens players who are on a budget."

Like the CM Storm Xornet.

<< Comment #1190 @ 19:56 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1188

Yeah, sort of, but last time I used my Xornet I would say its more of a mid sens mouse than a low sens mouse. But yeah its the same sort of idea.

<< Comment #1165 @ 13:17 CDT, 20 June 2012 >>

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By

4000 is unnecessary. My vote is for 400 dpi if it's native and not interpolated.

<< Comment #1167 @ 13:30 CDT, 20 June 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1165

what matters is if the sensor works flawlessly or not, not dpi

<< Comment #1166 @ 13:27 CDT, 20 June 2012 >>

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By

megaman3

do a cooller/ESR version with fancy stickers

<< Comment #1168 @ 13:40 CDT, 20 June 2012 >>

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By

azxx

yeah definitely leave out 4000dpi and add 400dpi instead. make sure 400dpi works properly though.

<< Comment #1169 @ 16:40 CDT, 20 June 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.81.0.192)

we need 400dpi!

<< Comment #1170 @ 18:59 CDT, 20 June 2012 >>

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Anonymous (72.186.9.120)

400dpi won't happen with the 3050 or the 3090. the malfunction rate is way to low at that level for the 3050 and the 3090 will produce negative acceleration below 700-800dpi (zowie AM, valor, etc)

<< Comment #1171 @ 20:12 CDT, 20 June 2012 >>

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petejones - Reply to #1170

are you nuts? im using the 450 dpi setting on the AM with absolutely no problems. either of those sensors can be set up to work at 400..

<< Comment #1227 @ 08:07 CDT, 10 July 2012 >>

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Bluder - Reply to #1171

yeah same whit my Zowie AM, works great...

<< Comment #1173 @ 21:11 CDT, 20 June 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1170

This is incorrect.

And I don't need proof cause I'm just stating the obvious.

<< Comment #1174 @ 07:56 CDT, 21 June 2012 >>

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petejones - Reply to #1173

well it's certainly not incorrect that the zowie AM tracks fine at 400 dpi albeit being the option with the lowest malfunction speed (which still isn't bad)

<< Comment #1176 @ 09:10 CDT, 21 June 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1174

That's a problem with the lens, not the sensor. I'm using a savu and it tracks perfectly at 400 DPI.

<< Comment #1183 @ 15:20 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1170

Theres no problem using 400 DPI on the 3090, but you have to sacrifice one of the native DPI steps.

The 3050 has a 500 DPI step, which is close enough to 400. Theres no negative accel on that setting.

On both mice you can set 400 DPI by lowering the sensitivity. For example with the 3090 you can set it up so that the "custom DPI" uses 4000 DPI as its foundation, and set the sensitivity to 0.1 (10%). Thats how it works behind the scenes, but in the drivers you choose "custom" and then you can choose DPI in steps of 50. How well that works I will have to find out. If it works nicely then I won't bother with the native 400 DPI step. I think for 400 DPI it may work nice, because its a fairly simple sum, if it was being calculated from something like 3200 DPI then I would be less confident.

Edited by »bst at 15:25 CDT, 22 June 2012

<< Comment #1200 @ 06:19 CDT, 24 June 2012 >>

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petejones - Reply to #1183

what do you mean by sacrifice one of the native dpi steps? would that have any effect on the mouses tracking at all? and is using the 3050 at 500 DPI better than using the 3090 at 400 DPI? the reason why it matters is that even if you can replicate the same sens in the game, the DPI serves as a hard senscap and changing it would affect accel in a way that can't be compensated for (even with cl_mousesenscap). either way its not a huge deal though.

<< Comment #1405 @ 04:11 CDT, 14 August 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #1183

Are you sure you want it set up like that? There are multiple ways to approach this, but i'm not willing to discuss in public.

<< Comment #1407 @ 11:03 CDT, 14 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1405

I'm not doing 400 DPI like that anymore, but the other feature will still be there. But if you have a better way of doing it please do pm me about it :)

<< Comment #1404 @ 04:05 CDT, 14 August 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #1170

Incorrect. A lot of A3050/A3090 mice were rushed or had shit firmware.

Malfunction rate isn't limited to the sensor hardware alone.

Edited by Skylit at 04:07 CDT, 14 August 2012

<< Comment #1172 @ 20:45 CDT, 20 June 2012 >>

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By

toop

800 Dpi is fine if you can halves it like Logitech do on G400 and throw half of counts away and make it 400.
Or if you can built some sensitivity settings like on Razer mice. That can be helpful too reducing to 5th notch and use it as 400 dpi. It can be complicated too.
800 will be fine for most of us.
Those who are wants to use 4000 dpi are either mad or stupid to buy this mouse because they can buy 12000 dpi mouse elsewhere.

<< Comment #1175 @ 07:56 CDT, 21 June 2012 >>

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Anonymous (79.180.227.6)

i just plugged in my MX518 800DPI
and its feels just right!
realy good
so forget about the 400DPI if its going to hurt/make problems with the sensors
just make 800dpi! and prefect sensor without ACEL/PREDICTION

thanks from israel!
we want order it already!!!!!

<< Comment #1177 @ 17:54 CDT, 21 June 2012 >>

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By

ergot

maybe include acceleration in the advanced driver settings and an acceloffset command like QL's so i can have the same settings across all games

<< Comment #1178 @ 13:42 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.73.101.209) - Reply to #1177

This

<< Comment #1182 @ 15:14 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1177

I will try to do something like that in the future (personally I really want it too). Should just be able to do it with a driver update, so its not too hard to work on it after the mouse is released.

<< Comment #1209 @ 03:03 CDT, 26 June 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1182

All my mice have very basic, very minor hardware accel. I can't play any game without it D:

Edited by KittenIgnition at 03:04 CDT, 26 June 2012

<< Comment #1186 @ 16:03 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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mew - Reply to #1177

This would be so incredible. If it was possible to have the Quake 3 acceleration in every game and it was always the same I would probably use it.

<< Comment #1179 @ 13:42 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.73.101.209)

Hey BST, have you decided yet whether or not you're gonna add that flash memory? I'm realy hoping you will, it would realy make it perfect for me. I'm always losing my usb-sticks.

<< Comment #1180 @ 14:38 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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fau - Reply to #1179

Tape them to mouse cable -> problem solved

<< Comment #1181 @ 15:11 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1179

I asked the factory and they said it can't be done (at least, not easily or without affecting other things), so I'm not going to bother with it on this one.

<< Comment #1185 @ 16:02 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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mew

1. How do I give you my money?
2. Is it still possible to be a tester?

I've been using MX300/G1/G3/G100 ever since MX300 was released. Currently on my second G100 after the sensor in the first one failed.

I wonder, is the button on the top of the mouse, I guess it's the DPI button? Is it pressable or rollable? I've grown accustomed to using the DPI button in the MX300 style mice on the top. I use it a LOT in almost every game I play as a normal button for in-game actions.

Edited by mew at 16:13 CDT, 22 June 2012

<< Comment #1191 @ 20:11 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1185

1. You can't yet :( there will be an online shop for it after the beta test though.
2. Sorry, all the places are filled atm

Yeah the top button is a DPI button, but you can re-bind it to anything.

Its fairly easy to press it, but it doesn't stick up out of the casing, so just rolling your finger over it doesn't work, you have to actually push it (with some ways of holding the mouse, and depending on your hand size, it will be fine to roll over, but mostly you'd have to push it). But you can push it with the bit just after your knuckle and it will click. I wouldn't want to rely on it for any really desperate moments, but for a casual kind of bind it'll work fine. Though tbh I never use it, so maybe if I got used to it, it'd be fine... :/

Edited by »bst at 20:16 CDT, 22 June 2012

<< Comment #1192 @ 21:22 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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mew - Reply to #1191

Yes, I don't use the left mouse button for shooting in games, so my index finger is free to use the bottom part of the first joint after the knuckle to press the button on the top. That's very good news if it's actually usable as well.

Keep up the good work, the mouse looks very promising.

<< Comment #1187 @ 16:15 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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»bst

A little update: I heard from the factory and its been delayed by about another week, but the list of things I told them to do is really extensive, and I believe it is the first time they've developed the 3090 (and the 3050), so I can't be too mad at them, though I did tell them I was disappointed (don't want to be too soft ;)).

The cool thing is that the drivers will be ready at the same time, so the beta testers don't have to wait for them, so in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't make a massive difference. They get the packaging as well, so the beta mice are really as close as it gets to the final product now.

<< Comment #1189 @ 19:17 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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Anonymous (174.84.243.250) - Reply to #1187

Make sure they put 400dpi. The world want a new wmo and will compare your mouse to the champ. 400/800/99999/99999

<< Comment #1193 @ 21:26 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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mew - Reply to #1187

http://www.erasem.com/gallery/albums/userpics...070254.jpg

Are the feet of the finished mouse going to be like in this picture? Are you against the bigger feet as in Logitech G3 or G100?

http://www.modders-inc.com/modules/NDReviews/...itechG3%20(5).jpg

Edited by mew at 21:28 CDT, 22 June 2012

<< Comment #1194 @ 22:50 CDT, 22 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1193

Its just how they are, being an OEM shell. I don't have anything against larger feet, its just that if I want to change them, I have to have a new mold made for the bottom part of the mouse, which costs a few thousand dollars. Given that they haven't caused me any problems it doesn't seem worth it.

Btw, just in case you haven't seen it yet, if you click on the 'comparisons' gallery, theres some pics in there next to a logitech RX250 (same shape as MX300):
http://www.erasem.com/gallery/

Edited by »bst at 23:01 CDT, 22 June 2012

<< Comment #1195 @ 00:23 CDT, 23 June 2012 >>

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mew - Reply to #1194

That makes sense. Yeah, I guess if the quality of the feet themselves is good enough the size doesn't really matter. And you can always buy new feet anyway.

<< Comment #1196 @ 01:35 CDT, 23 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1195

The feet atm are 1mm thick, but only the top layer of 0.5mm is 100% teflon, underneath them is another material (to make them 1mm). They're nice overall, like hyperglides.

I am talking to another company atm which can make 1mm feet with 100% teflon, but will probably need custom tooling. I don't know how much it will cost yet, but if its not too much I'll do it.

<< Comment #1201 @ 16:08 CDT, 24 June 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.141) - Reply to #1196

The size of the feet should be small because the larger they are the more friction the mouse will have. Obviously the more surface area the more resistance to movement and higher static friction.

What matters is if they are placed in the right location and have the right material with the proper thickness. If they are not the right thickness the mouse will "bottom out" more on soft mouse pads,

It is also a good idea to be able to open the mouse without having to remove the feet. That way when the mouse gets dirty, for instance, you can clean it without needing a new set of feet.

What I am curious about is if thick feet will cause sensor issues or would it just decrease lift off distance?

<< Comment #1203 @ 19:07 CDT, 24 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1201

I know thats true about surface area and friction, but the feet on some mice are large and still feel just as slick as small feet, sometimes even more. Maybe its because they distribute the weight better? I think a lot of friction comes from the edges of the feet too, the rounder the better.

I agree about it being better with no screws under the mouse feet, thats how it is on this mouse. I can't guarantee it for every mouse though, because its not the kind of thing that would stop me from using a shell if it were really good in other areas. But yeah I try to avoid it.

Theres an optimal operating range specified in the sensor datasheets, to be in the range I should use 0.5mm feet, but personally I haven't noticed any difference at all with 1mm feet.

<< Comment #1210 @ 04:43 CDT, 26 June 2012 >>

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McFly - Reply to #1201

That is NOT true.

Larger feet = less friction.

As long as you keep the feet free of sharp edges, basic thermodynamics tells us large feet would give less friction.

I also know this from experience.

<< Comment #1197 @ 13:25 CDT, 23 June 2012 >>

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mew

Have to agree. The fact that a single person is doing all the design choices while consulting community experts is so much more productive than a group of "industry veterans" who haven't gone through countless mice in search for the perfect one.

This definitely has the potential to be far ahead of all the present top gaming mice, let's hope everything goes smoothly.

<< Comment #1199 @ 22:14 CDT, 23 June 2012 >>

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Earthsea - Reply to #1197

I completely agree. [ + ]

<< Comment #1198 @ 22:13 CDT, 23 June 2012 >>

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Earthsea

I am very much looking forward to this (yes, I actually just spent the past half hour reading through a lot of this thread).

Good on you bst for taking community input and working with the community for your mouse. I hope that it succeeds and potentially surpasses a lot of the "gaming" mice currently on the market.

Best of luck!

<< Comment #1202 @ 18:56 CDT, 24 June 2012 >>

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mew

Bst, have you considered doing a Kickstarter campaign to get a little bit of extra funding for the project? I am certain you could get a good few thousand at least, if your presentation is solid.

<< Comment #1204 @ 19:18 CDT, 24 June 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1202

I think it looks cool m8, thanks. There is a problem though, I'm from the UK so I don't think I can do it yet :( :
Am I eligible to start a Kickstarter project?
To be eligible to start a Kickstarter project, you need to satisfy the requirements of Amazon Payments:
Be a US resident and at least 18 years of age with a social security number (or EIN), a US bank account, US address, US state-issued ID (driver’s license), and major US credit or debit card.

<< Comment #1205 @ 13:20 CDT, 25 June 2012 >>

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mew - Reply to #1204

Aww that sucks. Wonder if it's possible to get someone to be a "representative" or something who's from the states and have him do it in name for you.

<< Comment #1206 @ 15:22 CDT, 25 June 2012 >>

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Anonymous (72.186.9.120) - Reply to #1205

1 word: taxes. it won't be pretty for the "rep" involved once the IRS catches up to potentially a few thousand dollars gets flowing.

<< Comment #1207 @ 15:37 CDT, 25 June 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1204

paypal donations then. Won't do as well but it's something.

Edited by megaman3 at 15:37 CDT, 25 June 2012

<< Comment #1208 @ 18:57 CDT, 25 June 2012 >>

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mew - Reply to #1207

Yes, that would be the next best thing I guess.

<< Comment #1211 @ 06:35 CDT, 26 June 2012 >>

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Anonymous (193.144.83.71) - Reply to #1204

http://craftybird.hubpages.com/hub/Alternatives-to-Kickstarter

<< Comment #1213 @ 07:50 CDT, 26 June 2012 >>

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Six16 - Reply to #1204

Why not do like megaman says, use Paypal and start taking pre-orders or donations.

<< Comment #1214 @ 13:33 CDT, 26 June 2012 >>

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croaton - Reply to #1204

No need to use Paypal, just give us your account number, IBAN and SWIFT-code

<< Comment #1212 @ 07:10 CDT, 26 June 2012 >>

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By

nemecel

12345

<< Comment #1215 @ 15:10 CDT, 27 June 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (81.226.172.15)

Any updates? Have the beta-testing started yet?

<< Comment #1216 @ 12:16 CDT, 1 July 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (89.155.192.166)

I would like too to know if there are any updates.

<< Comment #1217 @ 10:58 CDT, 3 July 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (94.171.190.2)

The WMO has a fat arse, imo, the shape of this looks real nice. Updates?

<< Comment #1218 @ 11:21 CDT, 3 July 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.242.218)

Could you make a Gaming monitor too? :)

<< Comment #1235 @ 18:13 CDT, 19 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1218

Probably not any time soon, its too expensive to meet the factories minimum order atm, especailly if I make changes.

<< Comment #1219 @ 03:22 CDT, 7 July 2012 >>

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»bst

Some small updates:
The 3090 version will have a native 400 DPI option now, I wanted to get it changed before the beta test, since it was really important to some people.

I also asked them to make it so the 3050 version can be ran in all of its native steps of 250 DPI, from 250-2000 DPI. Theres been a few little things like that.

I'll update the main post soon and it will outline what will be on the beta mice, and the options in the drivers etc.

Most other things for the mouse are done, like the driver graphics, packaging, etc.

The website is nearly done but I am doing it myself, so along with doing the packaging and drivers its taken a while for me to do. But I'm hoping in about a week it'll be practically finished as I have most of next week to work on it.

Other than that just waiting as paitiently as I can for the development to be over and the beta testing can start!

17%

<< Comment #1220 @ 04:21 CDT, 7 July 2012 >>

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By

terrorhead - Reply to #1219

Good news and thanks for the update.

<< Comment #1221 @ 04:59 CDT, 7 July 2012 >>

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By

TronicGgG - Reply to #1219

You are my hero.

<< Comment #1222 @ 05:31 CDT, 7 July 2012 >>

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SwarmDMX - Reply to #1219

Yay! Can hardly wait :D

<< Comment #1224 @ 17:54 CDT, 7 July 2012 >>

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gienon - Reply to #1219

I've just bought 3 WMOs, but I will buy that mouse even if I have to starve for a week.

<< Comment #1223 @ 15:45 CDT, 7 July 2012 >>

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By

Gabriel_Ruan

Does the mouse accomodate MS 1.1 shaped mouse feet? They appear similar.

<< Comment #1230 @ 17:42 CDT, 19 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1223

No, but if you are asking because you'd want to change the feet, I don't think you will want to, because the mouse will come fitted with some really nice ones. I'm not using the standard factory ones anymore, they're being made by a company which specialises in gaming mouse feet. I will announce who they're made by soon :)

<< Comment #1225 @ 03:39 CDT, 10 July 2012 >>

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By

Glockateer

I can't wait to see how this turns out. Have you tested turning on/off jitter correction? This might be a good thing to be able to toggle in the firmware through drivers.

<< Comment #1231 @ 17:49 CDT, 19 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1225

Hmmm not sure what you mean by jitter correction?

<< Comment #1243 @ 03:14 CDT, 21 July 2012 >>

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Glockateer - Reply to #1231

It is basically the result of higher dpi sensors to smooth out jumps in the tracking. This probably wouldn't have as big of an impact on the 3050/3090 in particular but just something I thought might be worth trying if it came up while configuring firmware. Kind of ironic how higher dpi actually makes less precision. The high end of this is shown easily in the amount of smoothing the ADNS-9800 sensor has.

A good LED would make a bigger difference in getting that perfect feel, though.

Edited by Glockateer at 03:19 CDT, 21 July 2012

<< Comment #1265 @ 09:48 CDT, 26 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1243

Sorry I didn't get back to you about this sooner.

If its part of the actual sensor, then I don't think I can do anything about it, because as far as I know, it will be read-only.

If you look at the driver shots you can see there is an optional smoothing tickbox, which will help correct any jitter at high DPI (especially DPI which exceeds the maximum native specs), but it actually adds smoothing over the standard sensor's smoothing, so its not absolutely perfect, but just an option for those who'd like it. I think thats the best I can really do atm, but I will look into it.

<< Comment #1226 @ 07:54 CDT, 10 July 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (207.253.3.4)

Bst... KickStart and UK :)
http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/09/kickstarter-comes-to-the-UK/

On the other side, I don't think it's the best path for your project.
Kickstart will take a % on every income you get.

If you need investors/angels after that, It can be hard to mixte investor with kickstarter.

but if you need it to release that mouse, go for it !
Bonker

<< Comment #1232 @ 17:52 CDT, 19 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1226

Yeah, I already have investors, so its a bit tricky. Its a really nice idea though. Theres some others which just loan you the money and don't take any percentage of the company... sort of like an alternative for people instead of putting it in a bank. Thats probably more along the lines of what I'd go for if I need it at any point.

<< Comment #1228 @ 07:12 CDT, 17 July 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (81.226.172.15)

How is it going with the homepage and the mouse, any updates? :)

I can't wait, going to buy this as a present to a friend and getting one myself ofc

<< Comment #1233 @ 18:10 CDT, 19 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1228

Thanks, thats really nice to hear :)

Theres not really any huge updates, just waiting mostly. Theres things happening all the time, but its not really 'update' material.

My hard disk with my OS on died a few days ago, so I had to recover all the data, took ages :/ so got held back a bit on the website :( going turbo mode on it now though. The site runs on Magento, and the site theme is pretty much done, so just adding pages now.

I will update the main post soon, with more info, just want to get confirmation on a few things. Should be in the next couple of days. But it probably won't have much in there that people don't already know. There will be some pretty cool things though :)

<< Comment #1229 @ 17:32 CDT, 17 July 2012 >>

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By

Yeah, the wait is killing me too!

<< Comment #1234 @ 18:10 CDT, 19 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1229

Me too! xD

<< Comment #1236 @ 00:23 CDT, 20 July 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (90.61.172.54)

i realy hope the LOD on your mouse will be as low as possible, just like on thw wmo. Tested dozens of mouse and none had an LOD low enough. Goog luck sir.

<< Comment #1237 @ 01:48 CDT, 20 July 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1236

You tested the Zowie mice? Any lower than those mice and they won't track.

<< Comment #1238 @ 02:48 CDT, 20 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1236

The 3050 version has a LOD of about 2mm, and if you want it lower you can use the tape fix and it goes down to 1mm. Its better that way, because 1mm can cause problems with tracking on some surfaces. Its not really a problem for the WMO, but its a different kind of sensor. The Avago sensors I'm using normally have a LOD of about 4-6mm or so as standard, thats why a lot of gaming mice have really high LOD.

<< Comment #1239 @ 06:29 CDT, 20 July 2012 >>

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»bst

Update! ;)

Because the 3090 versions are taking a while, I am having the 3050 versions of the mouse sent to me today. They'll take a few days to get here, then I can send them out to the beta testers. Also some of the beta testers are getting some OEM samples of shells which the 3050 sensor can go into, to see what they think of the shapes.

its not the 3090 beta test, this mouse is the budget mouse, to be released later, but at the moment it uses the 3090 shell, and switches etc, so there will be feedback on a lot of aspects of the mouse, which will apply to the 3090 version too.

Its kind of backwards, because the release date of the 3050 version is later than the 3090 version, but the 3050 version is being beta tested first Oo. Bit strange I know!

Edited by »bst at 06:30 CDT, 20 July 2012

<< Comment #1240 @ 08:25 CDT, 20 July 2012 >>

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By

megaman3

are you using a good, lightweight cord right?

<< Comment #1241 @ 14:52 CDT, 20 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1240

Yeah, you can see how it behaves compared to a normal cord below, its a lot less rigid than normal rubber cords:

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9971/bstcord02.jpg
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8445/bstcord01.jpg

<< Comment #1242 @ 15:28 CDT, 20 July 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1241

I'm throwing money to the screen but nothing happens

Edited by megaman3 at 15:36 CDT, 20 July 2012

<< Comment #1244 @ 03:55 CDT, 21 July 2012 >>

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JDMYO

I want! :)
When is this available? :o 65g is light! The sensor sounds good :)

<< Comment #1246 @ 03:25 CDT, 22 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1244

Before Xmas is the best I can say atm. I wanted it to be ready way sooner, but just hasn't turned out that way ;<

<< Comment #1245 @ 02:38 CDT, 22 July 2012 >>

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JDMYO

Sorry to be a pain but I've tried skimming through all this thread to find all the 'final design' information and I've not been too successful. Would you mind giving me/us a quick run down of these mice with spec and stats please?

I'm extremely interested in buying one as soon as possible :) I've used alot of mice over my gaming years since the early days of Quake to the present day of Quake Live. Currently been swapping between WMO, Abyssus and Kinzuadder - mostly prefering the Abyssus but I've never been 100% about it. I have fairly big hands and I claw grip so I'd be interested in trying out this mouse when it's available - especially because of how strong you say the sensor performs :)
Keep up the good work! :)

<< Comment #1247 @ 03:35 CDT, 22 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1245

Its ok, you're not a pain at all, the thread has become really confusing. I had to try and think of a way to explain everything clearly, so I can update the first post with all the info. Also some things have been changing pretty quick, so its not possible to give a 'final' spec list, but more like a list of goals and and achievements. I'll try and get it done today, will probably be quite late though.

Edited by »bst at 03:36 CDT, 22 July 2012

<< Comment #1248 @ 04:13 CDT, 22 July 2012 >>

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ZipZingZang

I'm going to be in the US for much of the holiday season and in to March. Is there any chance this will be available to order or buy in the US?

A few mates of mine in the US are interested in this mouse but we all agree; International shipping sucks =(

<< Comment #1249 @ 04:47 CDT, 22 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1248

I'm working on it atm, I recently asked someone if they wanted to be the American distributor, but if that doesn't happen I will send stock to the US so the shipping charge is cheaper.

<< Comment #1250 @ 07:00 CDT, 25 July 2012 >>

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Ffleri

"They'll have the transparent sides and customisable lighting."- meh... Just do it oldchool style man! At least that second version. Who needs that lights etc. I know I can turn it off, but anyway simple, minimalistic style is the way to go.

<< Comment #1258 @ 02:34 CDT, 26 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1250

Well its been talked about quite a bit before, but the LED adds near enough nothing to the weight or cost, so I don't really see any harm in it. Even the simple WMO has an LED in it for its "tail" (albeit not an RGB one) and transparent sides on the white ones too. Thing is, if I take it away, then people who want it have no way to have it, but if I put it in, people who don't like it can disable it easily, so the way I see it, putting it in disappoints less people in the end.

<< Comment #1251 @ 07:04 CDT, 25 July 2012 >>

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nogaydar

I would love to have a middle button independent of the scroll wheel. Personally, I just don't care how it looks, I'm not going to look at it, my hand is going to be over it, but the aurora looks nice.

I suppose that in this picture:

http://erasem.com/images/esr/ninox_aurora_buttons.jpg

Scroll up or down are in the scroll wheel aren't they?, The photo may be a little confusing by those of us that want a middle button independent of the scroll wheel and are pron to wishful thinking.

Sry for my English.

<< Comment #1256 @ 01:31 CDT, 26 July 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1251

The mouse has:

-mouse1 (left mouse button)
-mouse2 (right mouse button)
-mouse3 (middle mouse button; scroll wheel BUTTON)
-mwheelup (scroll wheel...)
-mwheeldown (scroll down)
-mouse4 (front-side button)
-mouse5 (back-side button)
-mouse6 (the button on the middle of the mouse; by default it switches between your DPI modes).

I'm not sure if that answers your question; I couldn't really tell.

Edited by KittenIgnition at 12:37 CDT, 27 July 2012

<< Comment #1260 @ 06:16 CDT, 26 July 2012 >>

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nogaydar - Reply to #1256

Yes, that answer my question. I'm going to buy it anyway. :)

<< Comment #1267 @ 12:36 CDT, 27 July 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1260

Me too <3

<< Comment #1257 @ 02:25 CDT, 26 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1251

Yes, scroll up and scroll down are in the wheel. KittenIgnition is right about the buttons :)

<< Comment #1252 @ 13:12 CDT, 25 July 2012 >>

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By

Glymbol

I know there are already customizable DPI settings but it would be nice if you include all 20 Windows MouseSensitivity steps at drivers page 3, including ones not selectable at Control Panel.

Edited by Glymbol at 02:09 CDT, 27 July 2012

<< Comment #1253 @ 13:57 CDT, 25 July 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (95.115.119.49)

You are on a good way. I don't have to criticize anything

<< Comment #1254 @ 14:30 CDT, 25 July 2012 >>

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nogaydar

If there is a website please inform us. I would like to reserve at least 1 of these babies.

<< Comment #1264 @ 09:33 CDT, 26 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1254

There will be one :) I'll announce it when its ready.

<< Comment #1255 @ 01:26 CDT, 26 July 2012 >>

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By

KittenIgnition

Nice rewritten post.

I want to pre-order this mouse, or something of that ilk. I have/will have money to buy it for a little while, but I'll probably spend it on chocolate bars or ear buds after a week D:

<< Comment #1259 @ 05:52 CDT, 26 July 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (131.191.45.176)

been waiting ever since as a lurker and i'm so impressed, saving my money for this and not any other mouse

<< Comment #1261 @ 07:04 CDT, 26 July 2012 >>

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By

resis

Screw Razer Taipan (and Zowie AM for that matter). I need that Aurora.

<< Comment #1262 @ 08:06 CDT, 26 July 2012 >>

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By

zealot

this coming along very well, great to see. also thanks for re-doing the op, but it's still horribly for finding info quickly simply because it is so huge. use [hide] tags!

i'm oblivious to this, but isn't there a way for you to become a seller on amazon.co.uk and amazon.com? do they ship electronics to, say canada and germany?

<< Comment #1263 @ 09:28 CDT, 26 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1262

I thought about using the hide tags, tbh its not really finished yet, I was going to experiment a bit more with it :)

Yeah, theres no harm putting it on Amazon, its pretty straight forward and can use their fulfilment service. Literally just put it on and it almost takes care of itself, pretty sure they ship electronics to almost anywhere, but it needs to be distributed among their various warehouses, and different locations have different requirements to adhere to. But its not so big of a deal, bit like ebay but more automated. Its more of a sideline thing though, I wouldn't use it as my main 'outlet', I'd use my own website. But I'll always use a form of order fulfilment, its a lot easier and the delivery charges are much lower due to their huge accounts with couriers.

There is a slight limitation on where I can sell the mice from. Its being certified for FCC (USA) and CE (UK/Europe), so it can only be sold from those locations, eg. it can't be sold in a Canadian shop (would need IC certification). I can add certification later, but its pretty expensive, so starting with FCC and CE should be fine for now.

<< Comment #1268 @ 12:40 CDT, 27 July 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1263

I can still buy it from Canada though, right? D:

<< Comment #1270 @ 14:37 CDT, 27 July 2012 >>

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ZipZingZang - Reply to #1268

He said he plans to have an outlet/distribution in the USA so that would be good for Canada people. I just want to make sure it's available in the US when I'm there cause I'm buying 3 once it's released! =D

<< Comment #1276 @ 22:38 CDT, 28 July 2012 >>

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toop - Reply to #1263

Sell it Via amazon.co.uk
I could buy it on the same day ;)

<< Comment #1266 @ 06:56 CDT, 27 July 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (68.108.85.33)

This mouse will prob be hard to adjust to at first from using a 3.0 and Da for about 8 years now due to it being a lot smaller

<< Comment #1269 @ 14:36 CDT, 27 July 2012 >>

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ZipZingZang - Reply to #1266

any mouse is hard to adjust to when you first get it... especially one with a different shape D:

<< Comment #1271 @ 21:41 CDT, 27 July 2012 >>

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By

mew

Damn you bst, I think I'm going to have to buy them both just to make sure I get the better one. :D

<< Comment #1272 @ 02:57 CDT, 28 July 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (85.228.56.234)

easy shipping to sweden please! i will buy 3 at once.

<< Comment #1273 @ 04:26 CDT, 28 July 2012 >>

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By

Tobbe - Reply to #1272

With luck you'll find it in Swedish retail (don't know when though).

See post #446

<< Comment #1274 @ 07:50 CDT, 28 July 2012 >>

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croaton - Reply to #1273

But retail means more middle-men.
Which means it costs more..

I just want to pay via VISA on bst's website and have it shipped to me...

<< Comment #1275 @ 11:10 CDT, 28 July 2012 >>

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Anonymous (85.228.56.234) - Reply to #1273

Inet, Dustin, Komplett, NetonNet!

<< Comment #1277 @ 01:21 CDT, 29 July 2012 >>

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By

end0rphine

Are you still considering a glossy shell or will that be put on hold?

<< Comment #1279 @ 05:11 CDT, 30 July 2012 >>

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Anonymous (68.108.85.33) - Reply to #1277

what endorphine said, same design glossy top and rubber sides kinda like a kinzu v2 and im sold! :P

<< Comment #1284 @ 16:42 CDT, 30 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1279

Sorry, the glossy version won't have any rubber on it, it can't be put on the sides like the Kinzu because the sides are part of the base. The grip is fine without rubber though imo, I really do like rubber grip, but never missed it on this mouse, the grip is really nice already.

<< Comment #1283 @ 16:37 CDT, 30 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1277

I'm still going to do the glossy shell.

<< Comment #1278 @ 13:17 CDT, 29 July 2012 >>

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By

Teen Queen '

Make this happen, I need a new mouse \o/

<< Comment #1281 @ 06:59 CDT, 30 July 2012 >>

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By

MandoO

would be VERY nice if I can buy it in

<< Comment #1282 @ 13:25 CDT, 30 July 2012 >>

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nogaydar - Reply to #1281

Agera, I love your videos, don't change.

<< Comment #1291 @ 01:03 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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MandoO - Reply to #1282

change what? (:

<< Comment #1294 @ 05:45 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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nogaydar - Reply to #1291

Don't change yourself, weird spanish to English translation meaning appreciation and respect for you.

<< Comment #1295 @ 07:28 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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MandoO - Reply to #1294

ahh ok thank you very much (:

<< Comment #1285 @ 18:29 CDT, 30 July 2012 >>

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»bst

I updated the main post, cleaned it up a little, and added the specs for the mouse feet:
- PureTrak PerfectGlide | HD
-- 100% Teflon Material
-- Provides Fastest Glide Available
-- 1.2mm Thickness for Greater Life Expectancy
-- Powerful 3M Backing Glue

<< Comment #1290 @ 22:04 CDT, 30 July 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #1285

shit son, you better be able to sell this mouse in canada or i'ma rage at you, amazon.com does not ship to canada.

so fuckin use amazon.ca or ncix or something !

<< Comment #1300 @ 12:40 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1290

+1

This post has a purpose.

<< Comment #1312 @ 00:33 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1290

I'm not using Amazon.com for the main way of sending the mice, it'd just be another extra way people can get them.

<< Comment #1286 @ 20:52 CDT, 30 July 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1285

nice, is it some custom shape or compatible with microsoft skates for example?

<< Comment #1288 @ 21:47 CDT, 30 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1286

Its the same shape and size as before, just not using the factory skates anymore. They're like MS skates, just a bit smaller. Heres a pic with them sitting on top of some IME 3.0 skates:
www.erasem.com/images/P6211192.jpg

<< Comment #1287 @ 21:04 CDT, 30 July 2012 >>

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ZipZingZang - Reply to #1285

Yes yes yessss!!!!

<< Comment #1289 @ 22:04 CDT, 30 July 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (90.44.109.107) - Reply to #1285

thats actualy a very bad news but let me explain why :

PureTrack HD mouse skates are bad because they are too thick (should never exceed 1mm man, even 0.8 is very big, 1.2 is just insane for the user and for the mouse captor/lens tracking quality),

And more importantly they are very sharp, its a very very bad quality. I have bought about every mouse skates possible over the years and thoose ones were the biggest disapointment for me since i ordered a big pack to sell them.

Again i cant stress it enough to tell you how super sharp the edges are. Thickness is also an issue.

I hope you concidered not using oval skates but perfect circles ones since you aim to create a top notch mouse.

Also PureTrack skates are not cheap at all! For a ridiculous pice of tiny plastic...

GL anyway.

<< Comment #1292 @ 02:14 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1289

Ok I am talking about those concerns with them atm. The skates haven't been made yet, so it should still be possible to make changes.

I've been using the mouse with 1mm feet and so far its been absolutely fine, so I didn't think 1.2mm would make much difference, however I have asked them if they'll change to 1mm. I've also asked them to round the edges of the mouse feet, even if its just slightly.

Having said that, I always used to make my own mouse skates by cutting them out of a sheet of teflon, they were a bit sharp at first, catching the mouse mat a bit, but after a few hours of gaming they self-rounded their own edges, teflon is a pretty soft material so it doesn't take long at all.

The thing is PureTrak can make these skates nice and fast (14 days lead time), so I don't want to delay things any further, they're used to making a lot of the skates so I think overall they are the best option atm.

The rest isn't really an issue imo - oval skates are no worse than round skates in my experience, and the price of the mouse is not affected by using the PureTrak skates over the factory skates. Also replacements skates will be available on the Ninox web site, I'll do them as low price as I can.

Edited by »bst at 02:28 CDT, 31 July 2012

<< Comment #1296 @ 11:07 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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Anonymous (173.104.214.28) - Reply to #1289

i dont agree with this at all. i too have tried every other skate out there including cheap china skates from ebay and still like the puretrak HD skates better out of all of them.

main reason? they're just as fast as hyperglides once broken in and they last AT LEAST a year cause they're so thick.

you sound like someone who just installed them and expected them to be blazing fast when it's a KNOWN fact they take just a little time 2 break in. round the edges yourself if it's such a concern too instead of just throwing them away or downing them. it's a specialty product that deserves to be looked at different. the logic you have on the 1.2mm being too high for the lens/tracking quality is a little nuts too. i have the HD skates on 2 deathadders and a g400 and everything works just fine with a fast glide.

leave the skates oval too bst. the 1.1 is the most used mouse in the history of gaming and you never see someone complaining "MAN I JUST WISH THEY HAD PERFECT CIRCLE SKATES" and the HD skates was a good choice since its trusted and a lotta people use them.

i'm happy for the latest news and you have already secured a preorder from me.

<< Comment #1303 @ 16:01 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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Anonymous (90.2.24.190) - Reply to #1296

You are a liar. And i didnt even stated another issue with thoose "gamer skates" from puretrack. The surface in contact with the mousepad is not super flat and smooth with the puretrack skates!! It was cut very badly and the surface is filled with stripes showing the tool used to cut them. Yes you heard, thats right!

Let me see if any long date user from ESR who have tested thoose 1.2mm skates from puretrack agree with you.

Also, teflon is one of the most ridige plastic so dont tell me 5 hrs of gaming is enough to round them specialy when it was cut with super bad tools. Ans specialy if you are using a CLOTH mousepad.

I'm not gonna explain anything more to you since you are obv trying to lie to us. Was just pointing something at BST.

Again, GL with your project.

<< Comment #1304 @ 16:42 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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ZipZingZang - Reply to #1303

Well, I too have used the HD's from PureTrak on my Deathadder & Sensei and love them. I've had them on my Deathadder for around a year now and they must have around 80% life on them at the present moment. They do take a bit to break in but for me it was around 3 days... maybe 4. Also, I didn't have any of the tooling problems you're describing. Fitment was exact for me and surface of the skates were smooth with no dips or jagged edges.

I was blowing through Hyperglides every 4 months or so this is a big upgrade for me especially since it around 3 weeks for them to come to me.

And not to pour more petrol on the fire but PTFE has one of the lowest yield strength ratings of any plastic or their counter parts. In other words, it's a soft plastic lol.

By the way, http://www.overclock.net/t/1241739/puretrak-p...-u-s-e-56k - this is what brought me on to HD's... guess he must work for PureTrak too!? =)

Edited by ZipZingZang at 16:46 CDT, 31 July 2012

<< Comment #1316 @ 02:36 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #1304

(173.104.214.28) anonymous = zipzingzang

tell me admin is it true?

<< Comment #1321 @ 05:20 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (90.2.24.190) - Reply to #1316

rofl x) also : account created 6 Jul 2012...

<< Comment #1328 @ 08:19 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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McFly - Reply to #1316

I'm beginning to think you are right about your suspicion about him somehow being involved with Puretrak.

Every thread I read where a Puretrak product is mentioned, I see this guy defending their products and hyping the pads/feet.

I even bought the Talent, based on his 'advice'.
;(

<< Comment #1335 @ 11:56 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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ZipZingZang - Reply to #1328

You people are absolutely ridiculous. An eThug troll constantly claiming I work for PureTrak and a french rando overly bashing a company he probably has never purchased anything from. Something funny? I think so. And by all means 'admin', ask them if my IP matches the Anonymous posters because that's a flat out no.

And I'm a native of Overclock and the BST mouse thread brought me here. I used to have an account way back in the day but it was purged. That and the account my email was attached to was long gone. Sorry but get over it trolls.

Here's a thought... I only comment/give feedback on the items own. G400, PURETRAK TALENT, SteelSeries 9HD, and a Deathadder. All of which I post about on here when I see people talking about it. Yeah... next comment will be that I'm on the payroll for all of those companies.

It's the same 3-5 people bashing them so why can I defend them seeing as I find their product to be one of the best I've ever used? I give useful advice based on my opinion. I don't read what SOMEONE ELSE says and then go around spamming the same thing without owning the product.

and McFly.... don't even jump on their bandwagon. end0rphine gave you the same recommendation on the talent along with several other people. They all must work for puretrak too? do a search on here as well as overclock and you'll see more people than you can count recommending their products. but if you look close enough... it's the same 3-5 people overwhelming bashing them as if they punch someone's mother on live tele.

<< Comment #1325 @ 06:26 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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McFly - Reply to #1304

What kind of a mouse mat are you using since you can burn through Hyperglides like that?

I've had my Hyperglides on for about 6 years on the mouse I use every day. And I've even used it on an Icemat for over a year alone. The skates are still not showing any sign of wear...

<< Comment #1309 @ 18:55 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #1303

scrape the feet on the table first for a bit, sheesh.

<< Comment #1302 @ 16:00 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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Anonymous (90.2.24.190) - Reply to #1296

Also its funny you use the name hyperglides in your post since i didnt. But yes, Hyperglides mouse skates are the best by far, and everyone who tested them will tell it. I bet you work for puretrack... try harder !

<< Comment #1297 @ 12:14 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1285

I'm missing the "rounded edges" part? Are these thing sharp-edged so they will cut into any cloth pad initially?

Also, coming from the Valor fiasco...I don't know if you want to marked the name "Puretrak" much. The Talent is a good pad. And thats about it for that company....

<< Comment #1301 @ 13:21 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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Anonymous (184.233.27.252) - Reply to #1297

right... cause they're so thick they are cut without rounded edges. here is the response someone posted from overclock that they got from puretrak

"Hello *********,

Thank you for contacting PureTrak! Due to the thickness of the skate and the way our tooling is designed, it's close to impossible to round the edge of the skate as that is usually done when the die casts the skate during production. When we attempted to round the skate during production, most of the skates had a "bowed" effect making it basically useless for after market application. With that said though... our PerfectGlide | HD line is our most popular line and our customers are finding that it takes only a few short hours of gaming for the skates to naturally round themselves. If natural rounding isn't occurring or you simply just want to skip this break in period, taking the edge of your finger nail/desk and about 30 seconds of your time rounds it as well.

I hope this helps! As always, if you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us at anytime. Thanks!"

and the valor "fiasco" wasnt really a fiasco other than a group of people blowing up issues out of control way more than it should. i personally blame puretrak (and nick) for getting too close to the demands of the people asking for things that will never be satisfied in the first place. which i'm scared to death that bst will find himself in the same position regardless if this mouse is perfect or not.

i was one of the first people who preordered a valor and found it to be a good mouse for a first shot. not perfect but a good shot. rubber coating, grip, switches and the 1000dpi setting are damn close to perfect that i could ask or have used on previous mice. you have to understand that there were only about 50 people that got bad valors out of several thousand i presume. sadly for puretrak those were the "loudest people" but i doubt it hurt their reputation. more importantly, i doubt that company is surviving off a $25 mouse pad. ive seen quite a few valors at LANs, people using them on streams, and being sold on other sites. oh and that korean kid just won a 15k SC2 tournament using a valor.

why am I typing all this? well... if the community can just listen to this, for bst and other company's sake, i think we'll all be better off: expecting the world from people who are doing this for the first time and then throwing the book at them for not coming through on certain unexpected aspects is not only unfair but very immature and only preventing the advancement of what you guys actually want in the stuff you buy. tell me the last time a razer or SS rep was listening directly to your demands the same way bst has? more importantly everyone has their own opinion on what is "perfect". buying a mouse, not liking the grip, then coming on a forum claiming it's a shit mouse with terrible this and terrible this is not really helpful. i've watched countless people bash perfectly good mice which i've ended up buying and loving. balance between opinion and fact is something i think people struggle with a lot on here and other gaming boards.....

neway, bst... i'm looking forward to your mouse and WILL give you my opinion on what i like and don't like when i get it. plus dont get caught up in the hyped drama you may find yourself in once your mouse is released. just expect the worst on being thrown to the lions cuz you may get it.

<< Comment #1322 @ 05:20 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (90.2.24.190) - Reply to #1301

hi Mr PurteTrack http://iplocation.truevue.org/184.233.27.252.html

<< Comment #1306 @ 17:30 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1301

Sending me a broken Valor, not responding to my RMA calls = ripping off customers. Those idiots didn't even put any form of stuffing in the paket leaving the small valor box hurtling about for ~10.000 km. Very clever :) But aside from that, from what I gathered from others during that time, there was nothing working with this mouse out of the box, period. ~50 people as you claim will not have gotten a broken mouse, damaged by whatever. The mouse had huge acceleration, especially on 1000DPI - not to mention that the DPI steps were off by ~200, it skipped at medium ( <1m/sec) speed etc. etc. The weight compartment was hard to get open, so hard in fact that many broke their mice trying to get it open. On the bottom the mousefeet sometimes came off because there bottom wasn't flat where the feet were. And all this after Nick spend so much time describing...sry...marketing it as the next big thing (which bst doesn't by the way). Puretrak has no quality control whatsoever in my eyes. It showed with the Valor in particular and shows with how different the Talent pad can look like (I own 3). The community asked for firmware updates for weeks, nothing came of it. Then everyone on ESR, overclock and whatnot who had the mouse gave up.

So plz, lets not mention their name again mmh k? :)

<< Comment #1307 @ 18:13 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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ZipZingZang - Reply to #1306

I don't own a Valor but a couple of my mates do. They bought the bundle thing PureTrak did with Sennheiser and they seem to like it. None of the complaints you listed tbh.

By the way, the different "shades" of the Talent pads are their adjustments to improve tracking with new age sensors... specifically laser sensors. It's been covered many times. I wondered the same when my 3 year old Talent looked much darker than my mates who just got his.

<< Comment #1333 @ 11:50 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1307

I'm not talkin about shade of color. I'm talking about different thickness and size (width).

<< Comment #1336 @ 11:58 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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ZipZingZang - Reply to #1307

so return it and get a new one? one word: WARRANTY. everything I've read shows they pay for shipping to & from them and give you a new one without question..... even if you're out of the warranty time

<< Comment #1351 @ 14:46 CDT, 2 August 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1336

You haven't read my first sentence did you? Besides, having this to RMA because of bad quallity STILL IS bad quality. So...thx for kind of proving my point

<< Comment #1318 @ 05:10 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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Derp - Reply to #1297

The valor situation qualified as a fiasco when Puretrak failed to release a fixed firmware. Oh and the fact that their solution to their mice rocking back and forth was to double up a teflon foot on the right side so that instead of rocking it was permanently leaning to one side...

I don't see BST's mouse encountering a similar situation because he is actually going to beta test these mice. The valor was shipped out with so many flaws that I don't think it was ever tested.

Edited by Derp at 05:11 CDT, 1 August 2012

<< Comment #1334 @ 11:54 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1318

Right. To be clear: I will not, and would never urge someone, to stay clear of bsts mouse just because of the Puretrak glides. If they end up being bad, they can be replaced. Thats not a big issue. Still, I'm sure there are other manufacturers out there with skates that are of the same quality and are cheaper. So its a thing I want bst to consider.

<< Comment #1586 @ 05:41 CDT, 3 October 2012 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #1285

Can u make testings on QCK HEAVY? I want to make the transitiom from WMO to one of your mouses (maybe Velocity because I hate side buttons and I want a WMO clone with better technology basically) but I would't like that I find out the mouse has some problems depending on what surface you use it at like Abyssus.

<< Comment #1593 @ 04:17 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1586

The Velocity has been extensively tested on the QCK+ which I believe has exactly the same surface as the heavy, and its one of the best pads to use with the mouse. But overall it doesn't seem to be picky about the surface. The only one I had a bad report on was the Icemat.

The Aurora has yet to be beta tested, so maybe some of the testers will find some pads it doesn't like. I've tested it on the Talent at 1600 DPI and it got over 4m/s, and the tracking quality is good, I haven't tested it on the QCK yet but will do soon. I can't change the DPI from 1600 on this sample I have, as its an early version, so I'm waiting for the new samples so I can test it more extensively.

<< Comment #1600 @ 06:34 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #1593

Nice, because I want a WMO clone and hate side buttons, so im buying 3 Velocity as soon as it releases. How many days would it take to arrive to France?

<< Comment #1293 @ 03:46 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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Imagran

What is the perfect cintrol speed o Aurora? Because you show top speed of velocyt but not aurora....

<< Comment #1326 @ 06:49 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #1293

The 3090 version has not been tested yet.

<< Comment #1298 @ 12:14 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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megaman3

Now that we are talking about mice, does anyone know if someone (probably chinese or korean) still sells modded WMOs (not ime or ime3.0) with their stock cable replaced for a decent one?
We all know that's by far the worst aspect of that mouse because it gets on the way every single time, gets crooked somehow, heavy, etc. and there's simply no definitive solution besides changing it.

Personally I don't care about glossy finish and all that, but if the mouse comes with the cable (more like plastic thing covering them) already replaced then I'll get it anyway. Sensor and shape has to be stock though.

Google and esr came up with this:
http://search.taobao.com/search?q=%BC%AB%B6%A...p;search=y

Also no idea what it says about changing its buttons. Probably less latency or something (otherwise using cherry switches on a mouse would be retarded).

edit: translated each sentence and it says "2: line with the Logitech line (almost does not appear to power outages than the original wiring)", but by looking at the pictures it seems like it's the same plastic cover and they just replaced the actual cables.
I know the cables itself (inside) are prone to cutting after like 10 years, but I only care about that hideous plastic cover (outside) getting replaced with something decent.
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.1...9494625744

Edited by megaman3 at 13:53 CDT, 31 July 2012

<< Comment #1299 @ 12:21 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1298

offtopic: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.1...5833751331

Those yes/no pictures are...weird. Probably distinguishing between which have a 1.1 sensor and which don't, but differences are very, very subtle (if any) and I thought black wmo = 1.1.

Anyone knows chinese? lol. Not even google translate pulled the trick

edit: autoreply: translated each sentence (yep) and it's a guide to differentiate original and fakes (yep asia), not sensor. In short, if it says "usb mouse" it's a copy.

Who would have thought they even pirated that.

Edited by megaman3 at 12:34 CDT, 31 July 2012

<< Comment #1310 @ 19:12 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1299

Don't you need a chinese bank account?

<< Comment #1587 @ 05:47 CDT, 3 October 2012 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #1299

Did you manage to get a legit modded wmo from there? would love one with decent cable.

<< Comment #1305 @ 17:07 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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resis

Please no! Not sharp skates! Tell me that wasn't serious.

<< Comment #1314 @ 00:53 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1305

I don't think its anywhere near as bad as some people are saying, I did research them and I saw about the 'sharp' edges, although to be fair I never saw it saying sharp, just that they weren't rounded. Anyway the general consensus seemed to be that once worn in they were amazing, so thats why I didn't see much of a problem with it. They are still going to be way longer lasting than the factory skates, and also they can be made fast so theres no delay waiting for the mouse feet to be made.

But I didn't think the backlash would be so much, so leave it with me and I'll keep everyone updated. Like I said earlier I'll try and get them rounded.

<< Comment #1315 @ 02:12 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1314

It isn't as bad as people say. I think people just want perfect, which is what this mouse looks to some.
Anyway skates take about a couple of days to break in. Afterwards, they're just like hyperglides.

<< Comment #1320 @ 05:20 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (90.2.24.190) - Reply to #1315

"It isn't as bad as people say"

Man have you tested it yourself F.F.S. ?

Ok i have tested dozens of mouse skates and there was some normal/random ones, and some craps ones too, but thoose are just a fucking joke. I mean you have to see it realy... how can they even sell such a defective product.

<< Comment #1323 @ 05:48 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1320

Have you still got them, or did you take any pics? Because I never heard someone slate them so bad before Oo

Also who are you? Its hard to act on an anonymous comment.

Edited by »bst at 05:56 CDT, 1 August 2012

<< Comment #1327 @ 07:59 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (90.2.24.190) - Reply to #1323

Yes of course. I still have them since i cant sell product like that. I will take pictures in high resolution tomorrow.

<< Comment #1329 @ 09:09 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1327

register an account lol. Better than chatting with 90.2.24.190.

Btw I have no idea about mouse skates lol. Best thing I've ever tried are the new ime3.0 ones, which I found awesome.

edit: And also consider durability. Stock feet simply can't last less than a year.

Edited by megaman3 at 10:50 CDT, 1 August 2012

<< Comment #1330 @ 10:25 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1327

Ok thanks.
Btw, how comes you didn't just send them back? Oo

<< Comment #1346 @ 16:56 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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resis - Reply to #1330

I trust you making the right decision, bst, but also I know you must make the right business decision. So it's up to you.

I have experience only with stock mouse feet (never bought any custom ones). I always disliked the ones with "sharp" edges.
The Mionix Naos 5000 was terrible, but they were really sharp. First time I saw them for real I raised my eyebrows. I mean how should that work? It didn't very well.
CM Spawn and Roccat Savu are not that bad. Glide was fine, but the round feet of the Zowie AM and thet slightly rounded Deathadder/Diamondback feet were always the better feet by feel and performance.

I don't need feet that are completely round, you know? The edges should be just slighly rounded so they don't make any sound tearing on the cloth pad, nor lessen the glide.

If the PureTrak guys tell me I have to wear them in for a couple of days first, than it makes me raise my eyebrows, but if you think these feet are good quality and worth it, than I'm willing to accept that. Wearing them in is not that bad on the long term, but it would be nice if PureTrak could make the edges slightly rounder rightaway.

<< Comment #1349 @ 02:14 CDT, 2 August 2012 >>

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McFly - Reply to #1346

Puretrak cannot tell anybody that you have to wear down the new feet for 'a few days'. That's rubbish.

How can they know how many minutes (if any) a gamer plays daily? What game do you play? How much do you physically move your move during play? I play with 12cm @ 360 degrees. I would wear down the feet much slower than someone who plays @ 50cm.
And much more importantly: which surface? A soft clothpad should take much longer to wear down the new feet than, say, an Icemat.

I had some mice born with kinda sharp edges on their feet.
After a week or two, I just ordered Hyperglides and got it over with. They work from day one.

Also, bst should keep in mind when he relases the mouse, there will be lots of reviewers (some amateurs).
These people will review the product right out of the box. If the mouse moves badly due to sharp feet, guess what? They won't all remember to tell their viewers/readers that the feet should be worn in first.
They'll just slam the mouse for having shitty feet, nothing more.

<< Comment #1357 @ 17:27 CDT, 3 August 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #1314

take mouse pad off table do long swipes until you don't here the initial scraping sound that's how I fixed the feet ms 1.1 feet on my abyssus,

<< Comment #1308 @ 18:16 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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ZipZingZang

Hey bst, I can't find this but do you know the warranty on both models? 1 year?

<< Comment #1313 @ 00:35 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1308

Yes 1 year, and also I plan to let people send in evidence of any faults, with photo / video, rather than having to send it back. I still have to iron out details with that though so might not be available initially but it is definitely planned to be like that as soon as I can do it.

<< Comment #1311 @ 20:26 CDT, 31 July 2012 >>

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yoyoman

Should switch to hyperglides

<< Comment #1331 @ 10:28 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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McFly - Reply to #1311

This.

In my experince, Hyperglides have been the best skates - and extremely durable.
Plus, they work from day one. You don't have to 'grind' them in, like you have to with some others.

<< Comment #1317 @ 03:41 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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u3a6

Have not visited this in a while. You have some really nice products good sir! I might buy the "expensive" one when my abyssus dies ;)

<< Comment #1319 @ 05:20 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (217.190.105.153)

I read that the Puretrak HD skates are not the fastest. They offer a mix of speed and control.

1 year warrant hm.
at least we have 2 year "Gewährleistung" in Germany in which you must prove that the fault was at production time.

<< Comment #1324 @ 05:52 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1319

Thats how the normal Puretrak skates are described, they use a mixture of materials to achieve it, but the HD ones are 100% teflon so are geared more towards speed.

Edited by »bst at 05:53 CDT, 1 August 2012

<< Comment #1332 @ 10:48 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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vampy2k5 - Reply to #1324

I had the HD ones and they are crap in my opinion.

They do not offer the feel of teflon mouse skates.

I had many different teflon skatez, from of course different company'
s.

Overall the HD skates are the worst from all teflon skates i ever had.

<< Comment #1337 @ 12:01 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1324

I'd recommend you switch to hyperglides, too

<< Comment #1338 @ 12:42 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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»bst

Well, everyone just let me know your opinions about the skates, good / bad / don't mind. The more feedback I get (and fast) the better. So don't hold back, just say what you honestly want, thats the whole spirit of this project afterall.

Edited by »bst at 12:43 CDT, 1 August 2012

<< Comment #1339 @ 12:59 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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MandoO - Reply to #1338

H Y P E R G L I D E S
Y
P
E
R
G
L
I
D
E
S

<< Comment #1340 @ 13:06 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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anon - Reply to #1338

just ignore the vocal minority yo.

<< Comment #1341 @ 13:14 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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croaton - Reply to #1338

Indifferent, if they're bad I'll change them.

<< Comment #1355 @ 10:12 CDT, 3 August 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1341

But wouldn't it be more convenient if you didn't have to change them?

<< Comment #1350 @ 04:01 CDT, 2 August 2012 >>

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zealot - Reply to #1338

don't care, if they're bad i'll change them.

<< Comment #1354 @ 10:11 CDT, 3 August 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1350

But wouldn't it be more convenient if you didn't have to change them?

<< Comment #1372 @ 16:51 CDT, 6 August 2012 >>

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oneroomdisco - Reply to #1338

I've been a repeat customer of hyperglides, the steelseries feet were too slippery for me, I've yet to try the puretrack ones. I hear complains about the puretrack feet a lot, not so much when it comes to the hyperglides.

<< Comment #1342 @ 13:52 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (217.190.105.153)

either Hyperglides
or takasta glides http://www.itaktech.com/mouse-feet.html

<< Comment #1343 @ 14:58 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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nogaydar - Reply to #1342

Are they really good? material? 0,18mm!!!!???... I bought two already...

Edited by nogaydar at 15:02 CDT, 1 August 2012

<< Comment #1344 @ 15:43 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (217.190.105.153) - Reply to #1343

Well, I don't have the takasta glides order yet.
Judge by yourself

Video by the maker of the skates http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0D8_H32uX8

On the bottom of that shop the first two comments confirm the good glide.
http://takasta.wordpress.com/buy/

They are not as well know as hyperglise or corepad glides yet.

<< Comment #1356 @ 17:12 CDT, 3 August 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #1344

They're made by hotlinegames. He just resells.

<< Comment #1345 @ 15:56 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (217.190.105.153) - Reply to #1343

There are some 0,5mm versions too
http://www.itaktech.com/mouse-feet.html?thickeness=0.5mm

According to his blog they are Teflon (anything else wouldn't be as good, I think)
http://takasta.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/feet-for-mice-wtf/

<< Comment #1347 @ 19:25 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1342

You think Hotline skates are better than Puretrak HD?

They're the same essentially. HDs are just thicker.

<< Comment #1348 @ 23:25 CDT, 1 August 2012 >>

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resis

bst, can you somehow take comparison pictures of the Aurora vs. Xai (side by side / bottom to bottom pics comparing shape and dimensions)?

Well, Aurora vs. Diamondback would be great, but I doubt you have any chance of owning a Diamondback.

<< Comment #1352 @ 15:22 CDT, 2 August 2012 >>

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vampy2k5 - Reply to #1348

I like corepad teflon skates, hyperglides and takasta are good too but with a little downside (sharp edges).

<< Comment #1359 @ 16:59 CDT, 4 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1348

Sorry I don't have a Xai, but its a pretty similar size, not quite as flat (the aurora "top curve" is more like a WMO).
I do have a diamondback though :)

See the last 4 pics in this album:
http://erasem.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=2&page=2

<< Comment #1358 @ 16:07 CDT, 4 August 2012 >>

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»bst

Some new pics of the velocity beta samples and the sample packaging, I have them now and they'll be sent out on Monday :) I think the testers should have them before Friday, as long as they don't get held up in customs!

Box is a bit darker than it should be (also ithe info on it is wrong atm), but I think its coming along nice: http://erasem.com/images/P8020015.jpg
Pic of the logo, it will be a glowing one in the final edition: http://erasem.com/images/P8020006.jpg

Not really much to show, the PCB colour has changed to blue.. but not really worth showing... just an update really to let everyone know.

<< Comment #1365 @ 00:10 CDT, 5 August 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #1358

looks pretty good man, wheres website?

website has got to look baller. if you go on e-bay and check mice, you'll see a fuckton of shit mice, even some with good design but you just KNOW they are all fucking crap quality.

if you want people to take your ass seriously, you need a sick website and need reviews from random fucks all over the internet AND pro players to use your mouse.

so my nig, you gotta plan that shit ahead and get ready for some advertising on your mice. (send some to 2GD to give out as prizes for his new zotac etc, send some to YOUTUBE fags that have TONS of followers like total biscuit and others to do some free reviews of your mouse)

easy win man.

<< Comment #1366 @ 00:45 CDT, 5 August 2012 >>

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By

end0rphine - Reply to #1365

Day[9] would be good I think. SC2 would love this mouse.

<< Comment #1360 @ 18:05 CDT, 4 August 2012 >>

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By

Thanks for the update! I can't wait!

<< Comment #1361 @ 19:21 CDT, 4 August 2012 >>

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By

resis

Thanks for the pictures, bst. Diamondback has the perfect length for me. Shame Aurora is one cm shorter, because that last cm is where I like to place my finger tips on the Diamondback (claw grip with just slightly bent fingers), but should still be fine. It's personal preference afterall, so the Aurora should be fine as it is.

The other two shells that you say the testers should decide on for the actual Velocity shell. Are they similar in shape to the Aurora, or is any of them longer? If yes and they have side buttons, than the Velocity could be for me.
I hear the A3050 sensor is limitted to lower dpi, while A3090 is good with higher dpi, too. Is that the only thing that sets them appart, or are there other things that make the A3090 the better sensor (which I hear is said about them)? I am 400 - 450dpi user and prefer pure black cloth, and do not intend to change that. So am I good with the Velocity then?

I like the packaging, small box and nice simplistic design. Is that the Velocity with Aurora shell? So the testers get to test the Velocuty sensor and Aurora shell in one piece? Are they also receiving the A3090 version?

<< Comment #1363 @ 20:15 CDT, 4 August 2012 >>

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resis - Reply to #1361

Also, can we have some pictures of the glossy shell version of the Aurora at some point?

<< Comment #1362 @ 20:15 CDT, 4 August 2012 >>

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resis - Reply to #1361

I cannot edit posts (need Admin approval untill it is posted) and keep forgetting to complete them...

So the logo will be glowing you say (which reminds me of Transformers kinf of, hehe, but looks good). Will it have an individual led, which can be turned off, or will it be the backlighting of the one led that illuminates the wheel?

<< Comment #1364 @ 00:09 CDT, 5 August 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1362

lol really does look like the transformers logo. Cannot be unseen.

<< Comment #1368 @ 04:59 CDT, 5 August 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1364

Looks like an owl-transformer to me. But I like it :)

<< Comment #1367 @ 03:30 CDT, 5 August 2012 >>

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By

KittenIgnition

The logo reminds me of Megaman.

<< Comment #1374 @ 17:01 CDT, 6 August 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1367

:3

<< Comment #1369 @ 07:45 CDT, 5 August 2012 >>

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By

Thunderbringer

My firt thought after looking at the logo was psygnosis.

<< Comment #1370 @ 11:49 CDT, 6 August 2012 >>

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c1

omg this just takes too long...

<< Comment #1371 @ 16:07 CDT, 6 August 2012 >>

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By

resis

Hmm, what are the terms for becoming a beta tester? I did not think about it before, but now I wonder if I shouldn't try this.

I guess the beta testers that were selected have some knowledge of the subject matter (technical specifics). I can't say that I have, so it would be about testing how it feels and acts in-game and stuff. If that's not enough for a tester, than never mind me. I'm sure you have some good and capable folks on the beta test list.

In any case, good luck with the beta test phase. I hope there will not be much to improve and it gets available for purchase sooner.

<< Comment #1375 @ 17:58 CDT, 6 August 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1371

Beta testing entries ended March 3 I think. There is no way to become one anymore; the betas have been made and shipped (or will be shipped soon).

The requirements were that you PM bst about it, with all your relevant info (address, country etc.), and an explanation why you should be a beta tester. Most of the people who got it are experienced mouse experts or really high-skilled gamers who know what kind of mouse is good for their playstyle.

Edited by KittenIgnition at 17:59 CDT, 6 August 2012

<< Comment #1376 @ 19:25 CDT, 6 August 2012 >>

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resis - Reply to #1375

I thought so, so never mind me. Thanks for the clarification.

<< Comment #1373 @ 16:53 CDT, 6 August 2012 >>

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By

oneroomdisco

This is coming along so nicely, I'm happy you're able to do it :D

<< Comment #1377 @ 20:56 CDT, 6 August 2012 >>

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By

Lorfa

If I buy this mouse, can I eat the box it comes in?

<< Comment #1378 @ 09:32 CDT, 7 August 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (84.248.101.60)

Quantic SaSe was looking for a new lightweight mouse if you are still looking for sc2 pro players to test the mouse.

<< Comment #1379 @ 10:02 CDT, 7 August 2012 >>

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By

ins

i want aurora so bad : (

<< Comment #1380 @ 14:35 CDT, 8 August 2012 >>

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By

megaman3

posting this just to get plusses

15%

<< Comment #1381 @ 15:01 CDT, 8 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1380

:)

<< Comment #1387 @ 16:50 CDT, 9 August 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1380

Seems pretty high sens, but ok. Do you like the mouse? Plz post a quick review if you can.

<< Comment #1388 @ 17:04 CDT, 9 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1387

See here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1240739/bsts-gamin...t_17892418

<< Comment #1389 @ 17:11 CDT, 9 August 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1388

tl;dr: make a 3-button version

<< Comment #1382 @ 17:02 CDT, 8 August 2012 >>

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By

So jealous!

<< Comment #1383 @ 18:54 CDT, 8 August 2012 >>

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By

resis

Plz post sexy undressing... ermm, I mean unboxing vids.

<< Comment #1384 @ 23:57 CDT, 8 August 2012 >>

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function9

I know later models will depend on the success of these first two models, but are you still keeping this shell;
http://www.esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gam...pid2173880
in mind for a later model?

<< Comment #1385 @ 09:21 CDT, 9 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1384

Yeah definately.

<< Comment #1386 @ 11:23 CDT, 9 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (85.198.212.115)

I want to order this can you give me some info and website or other link

<< Comment #1390 @ 15:43 CDT, 11 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (92.205.111.157)

I hope you are aware of the high-cpu load issue with ts2/vent of the cm spawn which uses the 3090.
The cm sentinel (3050) dont have this issue as I know. So maybe its sensor related?

<< Comment #1391 @ 16:08 CDT, 11 August 2012 >>

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ZipZingZang - Reply to #1390

It's an issue with the firmware/software that's conflicting... just with the Spawn

<< Comment #1392 @ 22:04 CDT, 11 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (92.205.111.157)

all points stated are quite promising
i hope you can keep everthing in term of quality and of the sensor

does the mouse save dpi/usb hz settings? no drivers would make it perfect for LAN since LAN is a driver mess... on the other hand myself rarely visits any LAN

<< Comment #1394 @ 23:04 CDT, 11 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1392

Well I called the software 'drivers', but its not like graphics card drivers where you need them installed, the software is really just an interface - a way of accessing the options already inside the mouse. They're a mirror of whats in the mouse, so you change your settings, hit apply, and it essentially flashes the mouse with the new settings.

So you can load up the interface, choose whatever settings you like, then the mouse remembers everything, so taking it to other PCs (like at a LAN), or uninstalling the software interface afterwards, isn't a problem.

<< Comment #1393 @ 22:34 CDT, 11 August 2012 >>

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pitchbend

may i ask you for a quick summary? its like a good quality mouse that is cheap right?

would like to buy it if its good quality not depending on lights...

<< Comment #1395 @ 23:28 CDT, 11 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1393

Sensor performance, high quality, comfort, convenience, control, and value for money are the central features of the mouse.

The fact that the mice have lights is really incidental, as they have a functional purpose (they indicate modes). They also appeal to those who appreciate the aesthetic side of them, and are also optional and customisable. They aren't necessarily a central feature of the mouse, but they raise the value of the mouse for those who desire them. Those who don't are free to turn them off :)

<< Comment #1396 @ 03:34 CDT, 12 August 2012 >>

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GreenEnemy

Is there a risk of bricking the mouse when applying settings?
Does warranty apply to this kind of damage? and who pays for shipping in this case?

<< Comment #1397 @ 05:45 CDT, 12 August 2012 >>

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stiffnipple - Reply to #1396

shipping price to sweden?

Edited by stiffnipple at 07:38 CDT, 12 August 2012

<< Comment #1398 @ 06:21 CDT, 12 August 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1396

First applying settings via the software does not change / flash the firmware. Only when flashing the firmware you'd risk bricking the mouse. This cannot happen when you change the sensitivity via the software. If bst will release new firmware versions, to fix some stuff maybe, then I'm sure he'd RMA your mouse if anything goes wrong.

<< Comment #1400 @ 08:58 CDT, 12 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1396

No you can't brick the mouse by changing settings.
Warranty details aren't finalised yet, sorry. At first it'll probably just be the normal RMA, you have to send the mouse back, then you get sent a new one for free. But I do want to make it better than that. There will also be multiple locations where you can return the mouse to, so shipping rates are cheaper. But it is hard to do everything for release, I plan for it to gradually get better and better.

<< Comment #1399 @ 07:39 CDT, 12 August 2012 >>

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pitchbend

where can i buy the mouse/sign up for the betatest? :)

<< Comment #1401 @ 09:01 CDT, 12 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1399

The beta test signups are closed atm, they will re-open again when theres a new product. But if you would like to apply anyway, send an email to [email protected] , I'll look through them when the next beta test happens.

Can't buy the mouse yet because its not finished/finalised :)

<< Comment #1402 @ 03:13 CDT, 13 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (178.49.182.86)

Bst, are you gonna release any accessories with initial Aurora release? (like mouse bungees etc.). I suppose you're using the pre-production sample without one and with job you did on the cord i not even sure if i will need one. :)

<< Comment #1406 @ 08:44 CDT, 14 August 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1402

those things are awful. Source: personal experience

<< Comment #1403 @ 22:28 CDT, 13 August 2012 >>

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By

abso

cant wait go check the mouse out as well. my abyssus is rly pissing me off atm

Edited by abso at 22:28 CDT, 13 August 2012

<< Comment #1408 @ 15:45 CDT, 15 August 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition

OK, you fuckers somehow let this thread get to the second page, so I'm going to bring it back with a pretty important question (for me).

I just got ahold of the Thermaltake eSports Black mouse, and for a gaming mouse it's pretty shit. It's huge and unwieldy, but what scares me is that when I press a button, the mouse moves (quite a bit, too). This is the first official gaming mouse I've ever even touched, so I need to know if this is common, and how hard it is to press down the keys on this mouse. The reason it moves is because I have to press so damn hard, while all my other mice have incredibly low pressure requirements...

tl;dr how hard is it to press the buttons on this mouse?

<< Comment #1409 @ 16:43 CDT, 15 August 2012 >>

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ZipZingZang - Reply to #1408

Bold move for a first gaming mouse. Should of went with something like a Deathadder or G400 to start

<< Comment #1411 @ 17:24 CDT, 15 August 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1409

I, uh... found it... in a closet...

<< Comment #1410 @ 16:50 CDT, 15 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1408

Not hard at all, takes about 20-50g of force to press them depending where you press (at the front it takes a lighter touch than the back). Both mice use Omron D2FC which is one of the lightest clicking switches you can get.

Something people should know is that when you order switches, they come with a range of operating force (OF). On standard Omron D2FC that range is 45-75g, then you need a good supplier who will sort them into a narrower range and in pairs (so the L+R buttons feel the same).

So you might find some Auroras have easier to press buttons than others, but that can't be avoided, theres only so much that can be done to narrow the OF range down.

The Velocity beta test mice all came with D2FC-F-7N, and the OF is fairly mixed, because the sample room worked off surplus stock that time, which I don't like but its the same in almost any industry (eg shoe factories usually use offcuts of leather to make samples). I did get two mice with the proper switches and OF range though (D2FC-F-7N(10M)), which btw have the same feeling as the normal D2FC-F-7N, but last longer. They feel really nice, so I was a bit disappointed that the beta testers didn't get to see them. The factory tells me that the Aurora samples have the proper switches in all of them, so that should be good. But the beta testers like the buttons a lot anyway, so I wasn't that bothered. The worst was the scroll wheel button which is a Huano, sometimes it was really nice and light, and some were too stiff, so the final versions will be centred on the much lighter variant.

The Aurora samples are being sent this week, so will have them soon, I don't know a great deal about it except the factory said "they were able to do everything I asked", so hopefully they really mean that and they're going to be really good :) But I wouldn't be surprised if it needs a few tweaks and being samples they're bound to have some niggles!

Edited by »bst at 16:50 CDT, 15 August 2012

<< Comment #1412 @ 17:28 CDT, 15 August 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1410

How far do they have to be pressed? This one is massive (it feels like more than .5cm), and that's a lot of why I have trouble clicking. That, and I was using a piece of paper as a mousepad as opposed to a mousepad. I'm still not using a mousepad, but this plank of wood is a lot better :/

Anyway, I'm awesome, and will be buying the mouse + a real mousepad when it comes out, just so I feel the difference even more.

<< Comment #1413 @ 18:31 CDT, 15 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1412

About 0.5mm. Theres no gap between the top of the switch and the bottom of the button, and the button doesn't over extend the switch when its pressed down (so there isn't a mushy feeling). and it also disengages as soon as you lift the button so its easy to click rapidly.

Edit: actually to engage the click its about 0.1mm, roughly 0.5mm is just how far it goes down in total when it clicks

Edited by »bst at 18:44 CDT, 15 August 2012

<< Comment #1414 @ 20:31 CDT, 15 August 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1413

K that's perfect. Thanks. Best mouse in ever. <3

<< Comment #1417 @ 16:15 CDT, 16 August 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1414

is he going to do a wmo+cooller sticker now?

<< Comment #1424 @ 18:21 CDT, 17 August 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1417

One can hope...

<< Comment #1415 @ 14:32 CDT, 16 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (67.137.98.146)

Purely performance wise, can you sum up the differences between the two mice (and what it means).

I.e. they have different sensors, what that equates to practically

<< Comment #1416 @ 15:28 CDT, 16 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1415

It pretty much just comes down to higher tracking quality at higher DPI, the 3090 sensor has better tracking quality at above 1000 DPI than the 3050, and it goes up to 4000 DPI instead of 2000 DPI. Everything else is really similar. The only other difference is that the Aurora (3090 sensor) has side buttons but the Velocity (3050 sensor) doesn't.

<< Comment #1418 @ 18:16 CDT, 16 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (67.137.98.146)

So does the 3050 have better tracking at lower DPI, or is it the same?

<< Comment #1419 @ 19:11 CDT, 16 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1418

The same really, the 3090 may be a tiny bit better, but they're both good so in the real world theres not really any difference.

<< Comment #1420 @ 19:44 CDT, 16 August 2012 >>

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resis - Reply to #1418

Basically the 3090 is better in any possible way, only the 3050 is cheaper and should be of great interest to those looking for a cheap, but quality gaming mouse.

<< Comment #1421 @ 20:21 CDT, 16 August 2012 >>

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Fudge.

can i be a beta tester

<< Comment #1422 @ 23:00 CDT, 16 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1421

Sorry, its all full up!

<< Comment #1423 @ 23:04 CDT, 16 August 2012 >>

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Fudge. - Reply to #1422

:(

<< Comment #1425 @ 19:03 CDT, 17 August 2012 >>

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mefajpE^

»bst
»s
»t

<< Comment #1426 @ 04:41 CDT, 18 August 2012 >>

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By

Harps

To highlight again what crea* said above:

Don't forget to slap the 'ESR seal of approval' on once it's finished :x

Somehow PureTrak have done this:
http://www.puretrak.com/products/item/6
http://www.esreality.com/files/placeimages/20...mended.jpg

(although i'm not sure if they've just mistaken it for the opinion of user ZipZingZang.)

EDIT: It seems PureTrak have taken the ESR seal of approval off the page image now, lol.

Edited by Harps at 15:02 CST, 14 December 2012

<< Comment #1427 @ 16:08 CDT, 20 August 2012 >>

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By

Have the Aurora betas been mailed out yet?

<< Comment #1428 @ 01:25 CDT, 21 August 2012 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #1427

afaik, no not yet. But bst will receive/send them soon !

Edited by fishbone_ at 01:27 CDT, 21 August 2012

<< Comment #1429 @ 12:18 CDT, 21 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1427

Not yet, they could send them out right now, but I'm just getting some final checks done.

In the Velocity samples they didn't have as high tracking speed as the first samples I got before, so I'm making sure the Aurora isn't affected in the same way. The tracking speeds are still really good but if they can be higher then of course I want them higher :)

<< Comment #1430 @ 03:02 CDT, 22 August 2012 >>

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Thirst - Reply to #1429

<3 I wish more companies would care about their product as much as you. I hope you will forever be this thorough with quality.

<< Comment #1431 @ 05:10 CDT, 22 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1430

Thanks, I'm glad you appreciate it :)
Quality and attention to detail is really important to me, its the main reason I started this. In the future I only intend to improve on what I've done, I don't want to ever take a step back.

<< Comment #1432 @ 12:25 CDT, 22 August 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1431

I hope some Razer or Steelseries Rep reads this. Twice.

Edited by nYshak at 12:26 CDT, 22 August 2012

<< Comment #1435 @ 22:10 CDT, 22 August 2012 >>

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ZipZingZang - Reply to #1432

I doubt they will and even if they do, they most likely do not care as much as they used to. They have bigger fish to fry in all honesty with plenty of vendors buying thousands of units from them in a single order.

They're going where the money is and that's with the kids that like flashing lights and trendy designs.

<< Comment #1433 @ 13:39 CDT, 22 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (70.116.11.40) - Reply to #1429

How did they not have the same tracking speed?

<< Comment #1436 @ 22:46 CDT, 22 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1433

Its not known atm, its just something in the process where they make the PCB design more efficient, see here for more info:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1240739/bsts-gamin...t_18000429

<< Comment #1434 @ 16:14 CDT, 22 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (67.137.98.146)

How long are you realistically planning on keeping with this?

Is this a hobby, a secondary income, or something you're looking to make your primary income?

I need to know if I need to stock up on them in case you disappear. :(

<< Comment #1437 @ 23:34 CDT, 22 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1434

I want to make a living from it for as long as I can, I have lots of things I want to do with the company :) I just want to make things people really want, and involve the community as much as possible.

<< Comment #1438 @ 20:29 CDT, 23 August 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1437

any other on-going projects? Obviously you are not developing 2 mice 24/7

<< Comment #1439 @ 01:36 CDT, 25 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1438

Well I am doing pretty much everything in the company, so that takes quite a bit of time. Also I do a bit of work for the investors, since I was an employee there in the first place, but I don't do that much, I can work on Ninox as much as I need.

A lot of what takes time is just research, both for new products and just general industry research. So I have a lot thats ready for me to do. But I think the next thing which might come in between the Aurora and Velocity mice, is a large mouse mat. Its just a simple black one with a small logo in the top left (I don't know about you but I don't like logos at the bottom of the mat because they get in the way).

<< Comment #1441 @ 04:12 CDT, 25 August 2012 >>

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Glymbol - Reply to #1439

The mouse pad is a very good idea. Just basic black cloth pad, about 3mm thick with rubber foam at the bottom would be great + large dimensions and reasonable price of course :) .

<< Comment #1442 @ 05:33 CDT, 25 August 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1439

Are you trying to create a special type of surface for your pad? What makes it special?

<< Comment #1445 @ 03:43 CDT, 26 August 2012 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #1439

Ah cloths.. current situation is so frustratingly stupid, so I'll say it again.. #1070

<< Comment #1446 @ 04:02 CDT, 26 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1445

Yep, thats well noted :)
Flat ftw!

<< Comment #1449 @ 06:54 CDT, 26 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.243.29.22) - Reply to #1446

In the current market of mousepad there is no large sized hard mousepad, would you concider making one? Something similar to a icemat but 45x50 and thiner? Maybe with another material?

Regarding your clothpad project, what would differe from yours and all the others? Would it work better than the qck with abyssus etc...

<< Comment #1450 @ 07:22 CDT, 26 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1449

Maybe, I'll look into it some time, right now this mouse pad will be fairly simple, but I'm looking into materials which have really low friction (and ofc test it with various mice). In the future I'll do something more involved. The reason I can do this now is because it doesn't take a huge amount of R&D, and has a pretty low minimum order quantity, so its not a really big expense (compared to a keyboard or another mouse). So its kind of an experiment to see if I can get a nice pad made, but even if its like the others out there I'll still do it just to have another product in the lineup.

<< Comment #1452 @ 10:33 CDT, 26 August 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1450

Take a close look at the foam the japanese manufacturer Artisan is using. Normally the foam used beneath the actual surface has pockets of air in it (holes if you will) that make it flexible. Artisan uses rubber without this. This creates a very consistent glide. The only downside I see is that Artisan pads can't be rolled up.

In essence they supply "hard" cloth pads that can still be quite soft, depending on the rubber base used. A basic black cloth pad with that sort of rubber base in 50x45cm or something would be _really_ nice.

And: there's nothing like that on the market as Artisan pads are smaller.

<< Comment #1453 @ 10:50 CDT, 26 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1452

Aye I was looking at those :) I noticed the rubber base, yeah it looks nice. I think they still have bubbles in them though? Just really tiny ones.

I don't think it'll be a problem to do that, but I only just emailed a factory about it last week so its in early stages. But yeah I want to do little changes like that.

I have a normal office mouse mat here which has a really amazing rubber base, its just solid rubber, but it feels really really good, and it sticks to the desk like no other pad I've used. So yeah its good; the benefits of a hard pad without the scratchy noise and wear on the skates.

<< Comment #1454 @ 11:03 CDT, 26 August 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1453

Exactly. There ain't no reason to try and create a special kind of surface like some of the Artisan pads have. You know, the glass coating and stuff. That would just increase the price too much. But the rubber base of your average mousepad can be improved upon easily.

Not so many people go to LANs any more so not being able to roll it up should not be a big issue. And you're planning to ship them flat anyway :)

Win win?

<< Comment #1455 @ 11:12 CDT, 26 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1454

Yeah, it should be cool :)

I agree about the surface, well I want to try a few different types, but no need for anything special. Those Artisan pads are way more expensive than I want to do.

<< Comment #1456 @ 11:16 CDT, 26 August 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1455

Some cost more then your mice will :D

Edited by nYshak at 11:16 CDT, 26 August 2012

<< Comment #1458 @ 12:14 CDT, 26 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.243.29.22) - Reply to #1453

few months ago i was hunting for clouth material that i could stick to the top of an glass mousemate. I didn,t found any atm. But it would be great if you make a real hard base with cloth on it. Because rubber base, even solid without air bubbles would still be not as hard as a sheet of metal or glass.

<< Comment #1457 @ 11:41 CDT, 26 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.243.29.22) - Reply to #1452

you could then concider a hard mousepad with cloth on top which would be realy awesome,

<< Comment #1464 @ 05:46 CDT, 27 August 2012 >>

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Anonymous (72.208.67.217) - Reply to #1450

Some people like pads with friction (I do). Might want to look into higher friction pads.

<< Comment #1451 @ 09:42 CDT, 26 August 2012 >>

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By

end0rphine - Reply to #1449

Qpad heaton.

<< Comment #1462 @ 04:49 CDT, 27 August 2012 >>

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By

tzz - Reply to #1439

Make a keyboard like the noppoo choc mini with an ISO layout and I'll throw money at you. I've actually thought a few times about trying to do it myself, but I wouldn't know where to start.

<< Comment #1440 @ 02:05 CDT, 25 August 2012 >>

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By

Musicofmelkor

any chance that youll be experimenting with mouse feet soon?
liquid metal, aluminum, ceramic, etc?

<< Comment #1447 @ 04:03 CDT, 26 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1440

Not atm, but in the future maybe. Just going to stick with PTFE for the moment.

<< Comment #1459 @ 15:04 CDT, 26 August 2012 >>

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Musicofmelkor - Reply to #1447

cool!
btw, glass feet are another good option and i bet they'd be pretty cheap to make as well.

<< Comment #1443 @ 12:00 CDT, 25 August 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (82.243.29.22)

i had no time during holidays to make photos of the PureTrack skates which are very bad! But i will.

Btw aluminium would be potentialy unbreakable but would not work with glass pads

<< Comment #1444 @ 13:06 CDT, 25 August 2012 >>

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By

xoji

Who's testing the mice that actually plays Quake at a high level?

<< Comment #1448 @ 04:05 CDT, 26 August 2012 >>

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By

»bst - Reply to #1444

These are all the quake players in the test (some just play quake and other games too, some are more known for playing quake): l1nkin, gerppa, winz, fishbone, tobes, noctis, ptolemy, nvc, frs, matton, trex, swarmDMX, Gillz, h8m3, range.

Edited by »bst at 04:08 CDT, 26 August 2012

<< Comment #1460 @ 16:55 CDT, 26 August 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1448

If only I got to test it :'(

Would have been awesome.

<< Comment #1461 @ 04:41 CDT, 27 August 2012 >>

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azxx - Reply to #1448

do you mean there are players from other games testing it too? can you say who they are?

<< Comment #1463 @ 05:15 CDT, 27 August 2012 >>

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veryOP - Reply to #1448

Range? too bad, you gave the mouse to a tierslummer hacker

<< Comment #1465 @ 11:43 CDT, 28 August 2012 >>

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By

toggl - Reply to #1463

I love you too

<< Comment #1466 @ 07:18 CDT, 29 August 2012 >>

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By

Are the custom DPIs interpolated?

<< Comment #1467 @ 09:48 CDT, 29 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1466

Yes, it works off the nearest lowest native DPI, eg, 600 DPI is 75% of 800 DPI. I've only been able to test it to a really limited amount but it works really well so far.

<< Comment #1468 @ 18:46 CDT, 30 August 2012 >>

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skydro - Reply to #1467

how is native DPI defined? what's the actual resolution of the camera for 3090 and 3050 sensors?

<< Comment #1469 @ 20:04 CDT, 30 August 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1468

I can't remember what the exact resolution for the sensors is, its something like 20x20 on the 3050 and 32x32 on the 3090. They both operate at a similar FPS of around 6000. So the 3090 is better suited to higher DPI levels than the 3050, it can see more detail (process more pixels) per second, eg: (32x32)x6000=6MP/s.

Native DPI is just part of the software which is provided by Avago (which is loaded onto the sensor), it defines the fundamental sensitivity of the sensor. Any other sensitivity change (eg in the mouse drivers or in a game) ultimately works off of the native DPI. When I say native DPI in my post above, I'm just differentiating between it and the custom DPI.

This is basically the levels of sensitivity if you're playing quake (assuming you're using raw mouse input):
native DPI (800) -> custom DPI (scales the native DPI 75% to 600 DPI) -> Quake sensitivity/accel

If you don't use the custom DPI then it looks like this:
native DPI (800) -> Quake sensitivity/accel

The custom DPI has the same effect as the native DPI, eg. cl_mouseaccel values will behave correctly in quake, its just that because its adding on another level of sensitivity adjustment, it can cause some performance hit. Its not much, but suffice to say it just isn't as 'pure' as using only the native DPI.

Higher DPI is usually more unstable (lower tracking quality), and also usually has lower max tracking speed, so its best to use the lowest DPI which serves your perpose.

3950 native DPI:
250/500/750/1000/1250/1500/1750/2000

3090 native DPI:
800/1600/3200/4000

<< Comment #1492 @ 15:24 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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TronicGgG - Reply to #1469

no native 400 for 3090?

<< Comment #1493 @ 15:41 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1492

Nope. There will be a 400 DPI option on the Aurora though. Theres a couple of ways you can get it and works really well.

<< Comment #1591 @ 11:27 CDT, 7 October 2012 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #1469

3050 = 19x19 @ 6666 = 2.4 mp/s
3090 = 30x30 @ 6469 = 5.8 mp/s

PS 3050 doesn't really have a native 750. ;)

<< Comment #1470 @ 05:44 CDT, 31 August 2012 >>

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By

Seems like I'd rather have the 3050 sensor since it has more native dpi steps, and I wouldn't use above 2000 anyway.

<< Comment #1471 @ 09:27 CDT, 1 September 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (201.86.160.108)

Where to buy those mice? I really want one but can't find it anywhere.

<< Comment #1472 @ 12:51 CDT, 1 September 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (95.115.120.179) - Reply to #1471

It isn't available yet.
You might have to one some month.

<< Comment #1473 @ 08:35 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (188.80.208.168)

The price increased so much since the beggining. First you said the 3090 sensor version would cost 35 euros, now it might go to 50 euros.

I thought you were creating a good mouse for a competitive price but now you see the possibilities of making big money and you are walking away from the porpuse that innitialy was the reason so many people supported you :(

<< Comment #1474 @ 08:42 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1473

quality costs money. If you want a good cheap mouse you can always get a WMO, but by the looks of it bst's mice will be even better than the holy grail....which wouldn't be cheap if sold.

or do you prefer something like a razer abyssus, that will fall apart and jitter in 3 months.

Edited by megaman3 at 08:47 CDT, 3 September 2012

<< Comment #1475 @ 09:01 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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stripy ' - Reply to #1474

not just quality but quantity. Since he can't order like 1mil units, the price he pays is much higher then what well know brands pay.

<< Comment #1476 @ 09:07 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1475

that too (and other factors) but it's the principle.
The reason why "we" support him is not that it was going to cost $40, like many other gaming mice already on the market. Reason is the product is going to be awesome and directly focused on delivering instead of straight up ripping off customers like everyone does.
Sure he could sell more if it was a "new wmo" (aimed at office use for $20, cheap plastic that also performs well), but he preferred it costing it more so it was better than that.

Literally no one has made something like this and they complain about it costing the same as other gaming mice. I wonder if he complains every time he goes to the supermarket or to the doctor.

Edited by megaman3 at 09:11 CDT, 3 September 2012

<< Comment #1477 @ 10:35 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1473

I think its still a really good price, and I'm not greedy, those prices you are talking about are from nearly a year ago, with a different shell, and were estimates. Of course I have to make some profit, for example to develop other products, if I make it too cheap then theres no money in the business to do anything.

<< Comment #1495 @ 16:13 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1473

The Velocity won't be $50...the Aurora will. The original mouse discussed here will be the Velocity. bst just decided to do the more expensive one first. The Aurora will feature the 3090 sensor and side buttons. If you don't need all that you're free to enjoy the cheaper Velocity and its supposed 5m/sec perfect control speed. HF.

<< Comment #1478 @ 11:48 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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By

nys0

I just registered becuase i dont wait for the admin to validate my post.

I was just expressing my opinio. This way bst is only going to sell less than 100 units, because for that price you can buy a Zowie AM or a Razer Deathadder, both have pretty flawless sensors, good sensors and better coating matterials. This way BST Aurora cant be competitive.

Bst i think you are slowly becoming like razer. Your mouse is nothing more than the others being sold outhere like zowie am, puretrak valor, coolermaster spawn,...

The mouse you are creating is just another ordinary alternative to the other mouse avaible on the market. The Aurora is just like the other mouses but just with a different housing.

The costumization you did on that sensor is good but is still on par with the other alternatives.

I was really liked what you were doing with this project. Initially you were really working the community and trying to help it but now you are just taking corporative decisions that only hurt the pocket of the community and this pocket hasnt so many money as you think.

PS: you guys should ask yourselfs why the number of people posting on this topic as decreased and why almost all active users are kids so much and dont bother answering because you guys already know the question.

<< Comment #1479 @ 11:52 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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T1E - Reply to #1478

first 10 posts still need admin-approval

<< Comment #1481 @ 12:23 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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veryOP - Reply to #1478

$50 is nothing, absolutely nothing in 2012, now save those $50 you would have spent on this mouse and go spend them on clubbing and some cocaine too

Edited by veryOP at 12:23 CDT, 3 September 2012

<< Comment #1484 @ 13:00 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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nys0 - Reply to #1481

50 euros is a considerably amount of money in europe. I had 7 friends really interested in this mouse too, they were hardly waiting for it to be realeased but when they knew the new price chat, they immediatly dropped the idea.

Almost all of them work in the peripherals developing area too and they said that 35 euros for the aurora was a competitive price for the specs but at the same time allowed to gve the developer a really good share of profits, but when the 50 euros price was announced they said it was kind of a jk because the price was really hyped.

<< Comment #1486 @ 13:29 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1484

I don't know where you got 50 Euros from, I might have said it somewhere but its more like 43-45 euros anyway (at the current exchange rate).

But basically the price increased from £30 gbp to £35 gbp after I got the new shell and had more chance to work out the price. So its a £5 increase, its not much.

<< Comment #1482 @ 12:33 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1478

By the looks of it BST's Aurora will roflstomp the zowie AM and the deathadder.
While Aurora's sensor (firmware and drivers too) is better that's not even the thing that matters the most really. What matters the most is the whole package, everything counts: housing (shape), materials, weight, cord, feet, lots of testing (which is crucial and with the failure rate of other mice it seems like most big companies simply don't do that), etc.

There are plenty of so called flawless sensors (or with minor flaws), but very few flawless mice. For example the deathadder and the abyssus aren't, yet the wmo is even when it is dirty cheap and with a worse sensor (assuming those 2 razer are working)

btw to reply you click the....reply button, and you edit with the....edit button.

Edited by megaman3 at 12:39 CDT, 3 September 2012

<< Comment #1490 @ 14:57 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #1478

the biggest part of this is that the mouses shell is nearly identical to the mx300.. which TONS of people have been waiting for a replacement for many, many years.

also, putting the valor and spawn up there with the AM and aurora is just dumb..

<< Comment #1491 @ 14:57 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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resis - Reply to #1478

@nys0 :

You should dig into the data of mice like Zowie AM and Deathadder and then compare to the Aurora. While the Aurora is not on the market yet and we can not really compare, but by the data the Aurora will cost less than AM and more or less same as the Deathadder (if not less) and will surpass both in performance, options and features.
So what's your argument?

As I said, the Aurora is not on the market yet, so I try not to hype, or be hyped about it too much, but the fact that the mouse it tested by independent (volunteered) pro-gamers makes me see things in a positive light.
How can you compare the situation to Razer, if we never knew who actually beta tested their mice, what was their goal and such? We know these things about the Aurora.

The other recent quality A3090 mouse on the market is the Roccat Savu and it costs a fortune.
Also, there will be the Velocity that is supposed to be a budget gaming mouse, probably aimed at people such as yourself and your friends. You got some options to choose from there.

<< Comment #1480 @ 12:14 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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By

nys0

Off-topic: Ok, i didn know. And I forgot to check my spelling mistakes.

<< Comment #1485 @ 13:00 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (83.204.148.73)

inb4 ESR community gets washed off.

<< Comment #1483 @ 13:00 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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By

Finwens

I just can't wait for this mouse. I bought a Deathadder and regret it so much. Poor build quality and bad shape for claw grip.

Anyway, will you ship to Brazil?

<< Comment #1488 @ 14:53 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1483

Yeah, Brazil isn't a problem :)

<< Comment #1494 @ 15:53 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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Finwens - Reply to #1488

And when is the launch date? Will it be this year?

<< Comment #1499 @ 17:47 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1494

Yeah should be this year, I don't have a really firm release date atm though.

<< Comment #1500 @ 17:58 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1499

xmas release just confirmed. 5 versions: regular, glossy, pink, brazilian flag, cooller edition. ESR mentioned on the box.

Edited by megaman3 at 18:01 CDT, 3 September 2012

<< Comment #1501 @ 18:06 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #1499

How will I manage to get these in kuwait, will it be on amazon US and UK?

<< Comment #1519 @ 12:18 CDT, 7 September 2012 >>

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teioh - Reply to #1488

You are a legend :)

<< Comment #1502 @ 18:33 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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caiosaka - Reply to #1483

LOL I'm from brazil too :D
And I'm waiting to see the reaction about this mouse :O
in which state do you live?

<< Comment #1487 @ 14:39 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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By

cumrag

Have you considered making the shell similar to the Microsoft Intellimouse Optical 1.1 Special Edition (smooth/glossy)? I would prefer this over the regular texture of a WMO or horrible rubber coating of Deathadder. The smoothness of the surface makes for a better grip due to amount of surface area that is in contact with the skin.

<< Comment #1489 @ 14:53 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1487

Yes, there will be a glossy version.

<< Comment #1496 @ 17:15 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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ZipZingZang

I don't think comparing bst to other companies is a fair match. bst is one person with a group of beta testers doing everything from the start. If word spreads enough, he'll be lucky to sell 5000. Razer, on a bad launch, sells close to 25000

btw... 30 British pounds sterling = 47.6760 US dollars which is close to $50 which is MORE than a DA by close to $20.

<< Comment #1497 @ 17:38 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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nvc - Reply to #1496

where can i buy a deathadder for $27.6760? I'd stock up on several.

<< Comment #1503 @ 20:43 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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ZipZingZang - Reply to #1497

I guess I should of mentioned refurbes when stating the above price. I have two DA's (work/home) that have been 100% since I got them and they're about 2 years old

razer is notorious for their refurbs being better than the new ones which is what pushed me to buy a refurb

<< Comment #1509 @ 06:43 CDT, 4 September 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1503

refurbs obviously don't count. It's like comparing new cars with used ones.

<< Comment #1498 @ 17:46 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1496

Well thats not really true if you look at RRPs:
UK:
Aurora: £35
G400: £35
DA: £55

US:
Aurora: $55
G400: $50
DA: $60

But yeah, since the DA and G400 sell in much higher volume, the retailers can more easily sell them for less, its not something I can really do much about ;D But I just thought I'd show that its not that my RRPs are any higher.

<< Comment #1504 @ 21:52 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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By

resis

Any chance for holding down the DPI button and use the scrollwheel to go up and down the DPI's (in the 50dpi steps)? I find it is extremely useful with my Diamondback (changing sensitivity with sidebutton 7 + wheel). Would be cool if you'd see the set DPI displayed on the screen also, like the bar with the Diamondback.

<< Comment #1513 @ 20:23 CDT, 6 September 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1504

That's actually a really cool idea. Awkward to do on the fly, but still great for tweaking during light downtime ingame, if you care enough ingame that is.

<< Comment #1514 @ 00:01 CDT, 7 September 2012 >>

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resis - Reply to #1513

Just now I played Arx Fatalis. In-game mouse sens 1 is too slow and 2 too fast, so I hold mouse button 7 on my Diamondback and scroll down a couple of times until mouse speed feels right in the game, and when I quit I scroll up to my default speed setting. And it's not the first game where this turned out to be useful.

<< Comment #1515 @ 07:49 CDT, 7 September 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1504

I will ask :) I can see how its a useful feature.

I guess it doesn't work if you don't have the drivers installed?

<< Comment #1532 @ 03:20 CDT, 11 September 2012 >>

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Anonymous (217.211.67.138) - Reply to #1515

Is there any information when these are ready for sale?

I have small hands long finger to palm is 18cm, my Zowie AM is too long (125mm), it is 58mm wide in thinnest spot and 65mm wide at bottom.

I don't like the dimensions of the AM but this Aurora is there information on final dimensions?

<< Comment #1599 @ 06:23 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1532

Dimensions are: 117.5 x 61 x 38mm

See here for more info about the release date:
http://www.esreality.com/post/2327263/#pid2327521

<< Comment #1505 @ 23:13 CDT, 3 September 2012 >>

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Anonymous (86.217.9.207)

Won't spend 50 freaking euros on a mouse. That's way too expensive people don't realise.

<< Comment #1508 @ 06:42 CDT, 4 September 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1505

don't buy it then, but you'll end up buying an abyssus that will break or start malfunctioning in some months, and then buying bst's anyway

<< Comment #1517 @ 08:01 CDT, 7 September 2012 >>

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GuiGeek - Reply to #1508

While what you say is true, 50€ is still a big amount.
But given the feedback at the moment, it seems worth is that's for sure.

<< Comment #1506 @ 03:15 CDT, 4 September 2012 >>

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Tobbe

The SO CALLED high-end gaming mouse: x)
sensei fnatic ed. --> 70-91£

Edited by Tobbe at 05:19 CDT, 4 September 2012

<< Comment #1511 @ 04:39 CDT, 5 September 2012 >>

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By

raumschiffkomandant - Reply to #1506

GO RAZER

<< Comment #1507 @ 05:31 CDT, 4 September 2012 >>

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By

Glymbol

I think the price of G400 would be good.

<< Comment #1510 @ 09:42 CDT, 4 September 2012 >>

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By

nogaydar

I think 100€ for this mouse is cheap.

<< Comment #1512 @ 09:46 CDT, 6 September 2012 >>

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By

stiffnipple

CMON HURRY I WANT THIS SO BADLY!

Edited by stiffnipple at 13:24 CDT, 6 September 2012

<< Comment #1516 @ 07:57 CDT, 7 September 2012 >>

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GuiGeek - Reply to #1512

This. I just heard about it now and I want it! GIEB D:

<< Comment #1518 @ 08:05 CDT, 7 September 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1512

problem is I'm waiting for Velocity :/

I think I'll end up buying both rofl, probably 2 of the latter

Edited by megaman3 at 08:06 CDT, 7 September 2012

<< Comment #1520 @ 16:12 CDT, 7 September 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1518

Yeah me too. Gotta stock up on a good (better?) G1/G3 replacement. Who wants to be sitting there with a broken mouse after 5 years _again_, with no replacement to be had? ;)

<< Comment #1521 @ 16:32 CDT, 7 September 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #1520

idd. def buying at least 2

<< Comment #1522 @ 08:46 CDT, 8 September 2012 >>

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By

yoyoman

Now i know this would be overkill and i'm not saying it needs to be implemented but i'm curious. I heard ps/2 is quicker to respond than a usb when pressing on a keyboard e.g. ps/2 interrupt based keyboard > 1000hz USB keyboard. My idea is that we have 2 cables for the mouse, one for mouse movement which will be using the usb and the other for just mouse clicks using ps/2. So would using a ps/2 cable just for mouse clicks be quicker to respond than a usb?

Also i read somewhere usb 3.0 will be interrupt based so if this is true in the future we could do this with just one cable. btw a lot of what i'm talking about now is me talking through my ass because i'm not so knowledgeable on the subject but i would like to be informed.

<< Comment #1523 @ 11:48 CDT, 8 September 2012 >>

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stiffnipple - Reply to #1522

wat.

<< Comment #1524 @ 14:08 CDT, 8 September 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1522

no

<< Comment #1527 @ 22:12 CDT, 9 September 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #1522

no, just no.

it's funny how people think 1-2ms really is huge when reaction times are over 150ms

<< Comment #1528 @ 04:31 CDT, 10 September 2012 >>

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terrorhead - Reply to #1522

Edited by terrorhead at 04:42 CDT, 10 September 2012

<< Comment #1534 @ 04:42 CDT, 11 September 2012 >>

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zealot - Reply to #1522

forget about the other replies, you don't want/need ps/2 for mice since you are not only using it for clicks only but constant movement :d

<< Comment #1538 @ 03:11 CDT, 12 September 2012 >>

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yoyoman - Reply to #1534

ok thx, i remember reading somewhere tox uses spacebar for +attack because it responds quicker than a mouse and i thought this might be the reason why. Guess i shouldn't believe everything i read on the inter... what's this,a free ipad!?

Edited by yoyoman at 03:16 CDT, 12 September 2012

<< Comment #1540 @ 10:43 CDT, 12 September 2012 >>

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zealot - Reply to #1538

+attack on spacebar isn't a bad idea, try shooting during the countdown before a match in ql and you will most probably see yourself flinching :) i could never get used to that setup though.

<< Comment #1543 @ 20:56 CDT, 13 September 2012 >>

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yoyoman - Reply to #1540

http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&...pid2143358
This is where i got my information from. Also i wasn't saying that this feature needs to be implemented, I was just curious if it was would a ps/2 theoretically respond quicker than a usb for mouse clicks. Even if i was saying it needs to be implemented its more reasonable then the people saying the leds need to be removed which adds like 5g extra weight.

Edited by yoyoman at 20:57 CDT, 13 September 2012

<< Comment #1544 @ 05:11 CDT, 14 September 2012 >>

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zealot - Reply to #1543

yea, but did you understand my other post? :p apparently not.

keyboard input is unlike mouse input, which is constant, therefore ps/2 for keyboards makes sense. you are not using your mouse for clicks mostly, but movement, you want polling in that case.

you also didn't understand that if you want ps/2, you can already use it right now. i'm sure you have one of those converters lying around somewhere, there is no need to implement another cable in a mouse to get ps/2. when you do this, you will also understand why you want usb, not ps/2, for your mouse. this will take about 30 secs of quake for you to realize :p

<< Comment #1546 @ 08:40 CDT, 14 September 2012 >>

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yoyoman - Reply to #1544

I mean running both ps/2 and usb for the mouse at the same time. One for Mouse movement (usb) and another one for mouse clicks (ps/2).. I know it would be overkill running a ps/2 and usb cable at the same time and all im trying to figure out is if there was a such thing would it theoretically respond quicker?

<< Comment #1547 @ 09:46 CDT, 14 September 2012 >>

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zealot - Reply to #1546

are you for real?

<< Comment #1549 @ 21:14 CDT, 14 September 2012 >>

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yoyoman - Reply to #1547

ahh fuck i give up. I've explained myself a billion times but u guys don't bother to read past the first line. Not once did i say this needs to be implemented. I'm just curious if there was such a thing would it respond quicker for mouse clicks?

Edited by yoyoman at 21:17 CDT, 14 September 2012

<< Comment #1550 @ 21:28 CDT, 14 September 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1549

I wasn't aware of any lag when clicking m1 button though. Are you getting some sort of lag?

<< Comment #1552 @ 05:16 CDT, 15 September 2012 >>

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By

yoyoman - Reply to #1550

This post here - http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&...pid2143358 says ps/2 keyboard doesn't use polling but is interrupt based so has no delay whereas a mouse thats uses a usb uses polling so it has some delay.

What i'm trying to ask is does a ps/2 keyboard press respond quicker than a usb mouse click?

EDIT:also before anyone says it i am specifically talking about mouse clicks, not mouse movement. Also i know about keyboards and mouse and how they both have different switches and also the fact that your fingers might be faster at clicking on a mouse compared to a keyboard but ignoring all that which one responds quicker?

Edited by yoyoman at 05:19 CDT, 15 September 2012

<< Comment #1553 @ 08:15 CDT, 15 September 2012 >>

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By

megaman3 - Reply to #1552

10ms less won't make you win dreamhack

<< Comment #1554 @ 10:29 CDT, 15 September 2012 >>

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By

zealot - Reply to #1552

you're overdoing theoryquake.

imagine for one second how utterly annoying TWO cables would be. the one we have to use right now is the biggest annoyance with gaming hardware already (in my eyes) and you deliberately want to add another one :?

...and if you want to bind +attack to your keyboard... do it! don't ask us if it's theoretically better, try it out yourself.

Edited by zealot at 10:31 CDT, 15 September 2012

<< Comment #1572 @ 21:14 CDT, 26 September 2012 >>

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Anonymous (153.18.112.4) - Reply to #1554

I can tell you its theoretically worse. Even if you had some sort of super keyboard that didnt have a buffer your off-hand reactions are worse than your main hand.

<< Comment #1576 @ 09:46 CDT, 27 September 2012 >>

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zealot - Reply to #1572

i don't think so tbh, it's pressing down a huge button (space bar), who cares if it's not my main hand. i used to play piano for a few years and i've been playing football most of my life, the off/main part is visible in skill not reaction time.

<< Comment #1560 @ 04:03 CDT, 17 September 2012 >>

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By

Something - Reply to #1552

I understand exactly what you are trying to put across; unlike the others who choose to mock at any potential for ridicule, I'll try and answer your question with regards to using interrupts over general polling for which is quicker at registering your click.

Unfortunately, the answer is much more complicated in the theory/practice, and is very difficult to get a correct answer without reading through scores of data sheets, and having a long chat with my computer science colleagues about the software side of things I'm afraid.

History:

Interrupts:
Back in the day, when PIC's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIC_microcontroller) where the best things around, making the most out of the (very) limited processing power and capabilities of these devices was of the essence. Interrupts were created to assist in this goal.

So, instead of the PIC constantly polling or "asking" another device what its output status was; it would get on with doing something else with its limited processing power until the other device's output state changed; this is when the "interrupt" occurs.

Depending on what family of PIC's we're talking about here; you can either configure the other device (mouse button) to send the relevant "interrupt" code to the PIC (later designs), or the PIC could be configured to accept a certain voltage level threshold to be considered as an interrupt signal. The PIC then drops whatever it was doing, and gets on with processing the signal that the interrupt signifies (mouse button being depressed in this case) That is the gist of how an interrupt actually works, missing out quite a few details but with an ok overview (not going to bring up buffers yet).

So, interrupts were created so that these basic "computers on a chip" were not wasting clock cycles checking an input pin to find that nothing had changed. Since the clock speeds of these devices are/were really rather slow, you could be wasting a *LOT* of time doing nothing, when the PIC could be doing something else As such, interrupts were a really, really handy thing to have as they significantly reduced the number of wasted clock cycles on things such as polling (other things as well ofc). As such, interrupts were conceived very early on in PIC design.

Polling:
Polling is much more simple in theory. Basically, there are 3 parts to the whole process:

Device (Mouse) -> Devices output Buffer (8bits for a WMO, 16bits for a diamonback etc) - > input pin/port.

So, the mouse takes a reading from its sensor, processes it, computes the trajectory (x,y) and loads this information into the buffer. It also checks the state of all its buttons (mouse1,2,3,4,5,scroll wheel) whether they are 1 (depressed) or 0 (released) and inputs this information into the buffer. This information is then stored in the buffer for the computer to poll the device (aka read the buffer). The computer then processes this information (shoot/jump, change weapon etc).

Now, two things can happen here depending on how fast the polling rate is, how large the buffer is, and how fast the mouse hardware is capable of updating the buffer.

If the polling rate is high enough that it can read the buffer faster than the mouse can update the buffer, then you're all good and won't get any bad information.

If the polling rate is too low then the buffer will be getting re-written with new information faster than it's being read by the computer; which means the computer is not seeing all of the mouse movements/button depressions being made. The same problem occurs if the buffer is too small as with too low a polling rate; the computer is missing out on some of the information.

So the ratio between polling rate and mouse buffer size is very important. An example of buffer size limitations (and how you can get around them can be seen here):

http://www.esreality.com/?a=longpost&id=1265679&page=4

This is also why there are two ps/2 ports. The keyboard port operates on interrupts, the mouse on polling, and why they are not interchangeable :)

I realise that all of this information is not directly relevant to your question, however, I'm trying to give you a bit of background to the reasons for the existence of interrupts and polling in order to be able to answer your question as fully as I can.

/End of History

To answering your question:

In basic theory, interrupt is the more elegant and less resource hungry method. Polling is akin to a brute force method when it comes to detecting button pushes. However since ps/2 ports are now a legacy device; they will probably be slower than an overclocked usb port simply polling the mouse for button clicks. Lets say a new port standard was designed that made interrupts a priority; it would be surprisingly fast in comparison to 1000hz on usb :)

One would have to look into the chips used on most motherboards and understand the operation of said chip to accurately calculate the time it takes for the interrupt to be processed and registered. For button presses on the keyboard port, one simply CANNOT say "ps/2 can do 250hz, usb can do 1000hz therefore usb is superior". Regarding as to which methods information is processed quicker within direct input etc, I don't know as I'm not a software engineer :(

Conclusion tl/dr:
In pure theory, the interrupt method IS quicker, but in reality due to it not being such a high priority anymore (wasted clock cycles really aren't as much of a concern these days), a 1000hz polling rate capable usb port is most likely your best bet.

I hope this answers your question.

<< Comment #1561 @ 07:52 CDT, 17 September 2012 >>

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By

yoyoman - Reply to #1560

Thank you for your long insightful post :)

<< Comment #1573 @ 21:14 CDT, 26 September 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (153.18.112.4) - Reply to #1549

The mouse @1kHz is one of the fastest responding devices on the computer if you are going on a lag hunt its probably smart to start somewhere else.

<< Comment #1548 @ 09:53 CDT, 14 September 2012 >>

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By

megaman3 - Reply to #1546

rofl

<< Comment #1574 @ 21:15 CDT, 26 September 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (153.18.112.4) - Reply to #1540

Bad idea, keyboards have a few ms buffer to make sure the key is properly depressed.

<< Comment #1577 @ 09:48 CDT, 27 September 2012 >>

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By

zealot - Reply to #1574

what? no, it's a simple (mechanical) switch, on/off.

<< Comment #1525 @ 11:06 CDT, 9 September 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (81.226.172.15)

So when is the homepage coming along? You said like this week about 1 month ago

<< Comment #1526 @ 21:04 CDT, 9 September 2012 >>

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By

KittenIgnition

Is there any way I can get an e-mail as soon as I can finally buy this mouse? I don't go on ESR enough, and when I do, this is literally the only thread I check.

<< Comment #1529 @ 12:26 CDT, 10 September 2012 >>

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Anonymous (67.137.98.146) - Reply to #1526

Is there any way I can get an e-mail as soon as I can finally buy this mouse? I don't go on ESR enough, and when I do, this is literally the only thread I check.

<< Comment #1530 @ 13:58 CDT, 10 September 2012 >>

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By

croaton - Reply to #1526

Bookmark the thread and click the bookmark a couple of times every day. It's what I do

<< Comment #1531 @ 17:54 CDT, 10 September 2012 >>

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By

KittenIgnition - Reply to #1530

I want to be notified though; I want to do as little work as I can. No work, if at all possible.

<< Comment #1533 @ 04:17 CDT, 11 September 2012 >>

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By

gienon - Reply to #1531

Will you mind if I also pay for your mouse?

<< Comment #1535 @ 08:39 CDT, 11 September 2012 >>

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By

resis - Reply to #1533

Is there a warez site where I can download the mouse already?

:D

<< Comment #1537 @ 03:10 CDT, 12 September 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (90.44.5.157)

i think the most important in a mouse is the shape.

10%

<< Comment #1551 @ 04:11 CDT, 15 September 2012 >>

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By

crea* - Reply to #1537

you probably mean if the performance is good. because a mouse with bad performance but good shape is worthless

<< Comment #1559 @ 00:42 CDT, 17 September 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (90.44.5.157) - Reply to #1551

even if the performances are average (kinzu etc) the shape is still the most important factor.

<< Comment #1539 @ 03:12 CDT, 12 September 2012 >>

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By

yoyoman

Is it possible to strip the cord like the wmo?

<< Comment #1542 @ 07:55 CDT, 13 September 2012 >>

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By

asdator

hey bst can u make a few picture of the mouses next to g1/g3 ? :}

<< Comment #1555 @ 11:39 CDT, 15 September 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1542

Yep take a look at the link below for comparison photos. Its not a G1/3 mouse but an RX250 which has the same shape as a G1/3:
http://www.erasem.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=2

<< Comment #1545 @ 05:48 CDT, 14 September 2012 >>

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By

teioh

Release the mouse and take my money and vagina and penis.

<< Comment #1556 @ 03:54 CDT, 16 September 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (141.0.8.155)

You should see if you could have a tinted prism for the LED. To reduce the lift distance by defusing the light. If that is technically possible. Or something that does the similar thing without modifying the lens.

I add some tinted tape on mine to reduce the lift off under 1.2mm.

<< Comment #1557 @ 05:16 CDT, 16 September 2012 >>

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By

stiffnipple

no way. 2 ms is perfect.

<< Comment #1558 @ 00:42 CDT, 17 September 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (141.0.8.140)

BST is the scroll wheel the same as the Diamondback? If so can you get me a scroll wheel?

<< Comment #1562 @ 00:36 CDT, 19 September 2012 >>

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By

end0rphine

Hi BST,

Wishing you success on your project. First time seeing this mouse and was hoping it'd be out before Call of duty black ops 2 releases in the 13th of November. I hope to be able to play very well in that game since previous CODs were really demanding for me, especially MW3, so I figured a game with that skill ceiling would need a very good mouse to accompany it. Hope it takes me to MLG! :D Best of luck.

Edited by end0rphine at 00:38 CDT, 19 September 2012

<< Comment #1567 @ 10:09 CDT, 19 September 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (82.120.166.19) - Reply to #1562

troll lvl : noob

<< Comment #1563 @ 01:46 CDT, 19 September 2012 >>

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By

Angelnish

Wow, looks quite promising!

<< Comment #1564 @ 01:46 CDT, 19 September 2012 >>

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By

Angelnish

Wow, looks quite promising!

<< Comment #1565 @ 08:12 CDT, 19 September 2012 >>

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By

McFly

Do we have a projected release date yet at this point?

<< Comment #1566 @ 10:09 CDT, 19 September 2012 >>

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By

quakeisalive

GJ on the mouse! Imo you are a smart man who knows he can't please everyone and also your mouse shell / leds shows you know where the money is at when designing a mouse. Also you didn't include any of that expensive crap such as sensors with the unnecessary 5000+ dpi, you only bought the most neccessary stuff.. Atm it seems like the perfect mouse for me and i can't imagine anyone doing a better job.

Edited by quakeisalive at 07:06 CDT, 20 September 2012

<< Comment #1568 @ 02:13 CDT, 20 September 2012 >>

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By

raumschiffkomandant - Reply to #1566

agreed and [+]'ed

<< Comment #1569 @ 19:35 CDT, 25 September 2012 >>

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By

McFly

bst, can't you give us an update on projected release date?

<< Comment #1570 @ 00:41 CDT, 26 September 2012 >>

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By

kale - Reply to #1569

+1 :D, my zebra coloured ime 3.0 needs to retire

<< Comment #1571 @ 09:06 CDT, 26 September 2012 >>

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By

McFly - Reply to #1570

Yeah, man. I'm so desperate for a new mouse, I'm looking into laser mice even. :x

<< Comment #1575 @ 22:22 CDT, 26 September 2012 >>

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By

end0rphine - Reply to #1571

lol I'm currently looking into other mice and mousepads at the moment now as well.

<< Comment #1578 @ 18:27 CDT, 2 October 2012 >>

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By

Teen Queen ' - Reply to #1571

Holy shit, that must be really desperate

<< Comment #1594 @ 04:49 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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By

Nzr0 ' - Reply to #1578

Only depends on sensitivity. I have played with a G3 on <15cm/360 and never once was able to make it skip(in cpm with a hell of a lot flicking).

Edited by Nzr0 at 04:50 CDT, 8 October 2012

<< Comment #1579 @ 19:11 CDT, 2 October 2012 >>

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By

nemecel

Me too! what is the best WMO replacement, Aurora or Velocity? and why

(using a QCK heavy if thats relevant)

Edited by nemecel at 19:12 CDT, 2 October 2012

<< Comment #1580 @ 20:17 CDT, 2 October 2012 >>

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ergot - Reply to #1579

Velocity doesn't have side buttons like the WMO and will be cheaper, the sensor difference is negligible.

Aurora is supposed to be shaped like the MX300, but BST said it's also similar to the WMO except for how the back flares out. Velocity shell #1 looks more so like the WMO.

<< Comment #1581 @ 20:28 CDT, 2 October 2012 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #1580

I see. Will wait for some direct comparasions when both are out. Im going to buy a couple of WMO's anyway, you never know.

How much will it take for the Velocity to be released compared to the Aurora? What shell will be used? #1 looks simple and similar to WMO. #2 I dont like. Looks like some sort of insect.

If the sensor is negligible why he makes it different? Who would take advantage of that?

I play at 1280x960, as far as I know i don't need more than 400dpi and WMO has that plus no prediction already. How do I benefit from Aurora/Velocity? what is superior to the WMO?

And I hope you can disable these annoying "real-time DPI buttons" because last thing you need is missclicking one of these ingame.

Edited by nemecel at 20:29 CDT, 2 October 2012

<< Comment #1582 @ 21:26 CDT, 2 October 2012 >>

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ergot - Reply to #1581

i dont think you'll be waiting that long, just buy one WMO.

the 3090 (Aurora) tracks better at higher DPIs and also goes to 4000 DPI which is probably nice if you have a big monitor and a high sensitivity. the 3050 (Velocity) is good for someone that uses a low/medium sensitivity, but the Aurora will do just as well there.

the WMO has a control rate of 1.55m/s @ 1000hz so you get negative acceleration at low or even medium sensitivities. that's one reason why all the pros that use a WMO have both high acceleration and sensitivity settings.

Velocity has been tested at 5.1m/s and the Aurora/Velocity have much better switches/wheel/cord/feet/drivers than any other mouse on the market.

<< Comment #1584 @ 05:34 CDT, 3 October 2012 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #1582

But I play at 1280x960 like I said (I don't care about hardcore mouse performance on any other game but quake)

Also I play at 500hz cos I heard 1000hz is overkill and can damage motherboards/the mouse itself.

Edited by nemecel at 05:34 CDT, 3 October 2012

<< Comment #1592 @ 12:33 CDT, 7 October 2012 >>

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Teen Queen ' - Reply to #1584

Also I play at 500hz cos I heard 1000hz is overkill and can damage motherboards/the mouse itself.

Oh god oh god oh god.

The misinformation is killing me

<< Comment #1585 @ 05:36 CDT, 3 October 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1582

The main difference is in the side buttons. Yes, the Aurora will have higher DPI but most hardcore games won't use that. So as long as tracking quality, perfect control / max speed will be the same the main difference are the side buttons. And the price :)

<< Comment #1583 @ 03:46 CDT, 3 October 2012 >>

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By

raumschiffkomandant - Reply to #1579

g400 or hopefully an abyssus (just coz its cheap and bst didnt released yet)

<< Comment #1588 @ 11:17 CDT, 3 October 2012 >>

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By

cumrag

can't wait to buy one or both...

<< Comment #1589 @ 12:51 CDT, 6 October 2012 >>

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By

BST, please give us an update! I need my fix! :)

<< Comment #1590 @ 13:03 CDT, 6 October 2012 >>

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By

nogaydar

give us the website, I want to drool there rather than here.

<< Comment #1595 @ 05:02 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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»bst

Sorry there hasn't been an update in a while!

I'l try and answer everyones questions in this post.

1) The release date is going to be really close to Xmas, hopefully before. But this is what I know:

- FCC/CE testing takes about 30 days (its required by law)
- Making the mice also takes about 30 days

With any luck I will have the beta samples by the end of this week, the drivers are 99% finished now, theres just a few little things left to do.

2) Website

I had to get back into it, a while back I had a hdd crash and it just messed with my head, I'm not a web designer but more of a graphic designer, so its been pretty hard to learn how to set up Magento and all the extra things I wanted to add, so the break from it didn't do me good because I forgot a lot of things. Its really close to being finished now though, thats why things have been a bit quiet as I've been focussing on it.

I've got a screenshot of it here: http://ninox.org/images/nnx-wp.png (sorry it doesn't show much, but you can see its coming along at least!).

So I think about 2-3 weeks before its up, and it should be fully working so that pre-orders can be placed, and theres a newsletter built in as well for those who wanted it.. (I know, its a bit late now, lol).

3) The Velocity
I don't know when it'll be released yet, sorry! But maybe something like March, don't hold me to it though, it could be sooner, could be later... depends how things go.
But here is a mock up of how it'll look:
http://ninox.org/images/P9140113.jpg

4) Mouse feet
Puretrak sent me some of their mouse feet (IME 3.0 ones). I've been using them for about 2 weeks now and I really like them. They are a bit less slippery than the g400 I have, but I actually like it... theres no "stickyness" when beginning movement, but its not too slippery that it feels like theres no control.

So personally I wouldn't need any changes... but Puretrak said they can make them a little differently (with slightly different tooling materials) and the edges will slightly rounded, so I'll do that. They're just experimenting with them atm.

Edited by »bst at 05:03 CDT, 8 October 2012

<< Comment #1596 @ 05:06 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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By

end0rphine - Reply to #1595

Looks like it'll be a christmas present to myself. Forever alone :(

<< Comment #1597 @ 05:44 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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By

Teen Queen ' - Reply to #1595

Thanks for the update

<< Comment #1598 @ 06:04 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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By

McFly - Reply to #1595

Rounded edges is definitely a must-have.

It's what makes Hyperglides so good.

<< Comment #1601 @ 06:46 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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By

nogaydar - Reply to #1595

i love u mate.

<< Comment #1602 @ 07:14 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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By

ergot - Reply to #1595

given how many people here are partial to the shape of the WMO, why didn't you go with http://www.erasem.com/images/esr/ninox_velocity_shell_1b.jpg for the velocity? it looks almost the same as the aurora now.

<< Comment #1603 @ 07:19 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1602

yep. Perfectly flat and not rounded sides are of the essence.

<< Comment #1604 @ 07:35 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1602

The beta testers preferred the shape of it, and it has a button on top which is useful. Thats pretty much what it came down to. I know what you mean though, they do look fairly similar, but theres always some kind of drawback. Hopefully in the future I'll be able to do some larger mice which look different.

<< Comment #1620 @ 12:19 CDT, 9 October 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1604

By the way: Why didn't you use the same shell for the Aurora and Velocity? Side buttons?

<< Comment #1621 @ 13:09 CDT, 9 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1620

It wasn't because of the side buttons, I can have the side buttons on the Aurora removed pretty easily (easier than transferring the Velocity PCB to a new shell).

I just didn't think it was a good idea for the Aurora shell to have too many different variants, you know, one with side buttons, one without, one with the 3090 sensor, one with the 3050, one with a glossy finish, one with a rubber finish, then different colours, and so on. This way I can do more with two shells and its less confusing overall.

<< Comment #1619 @ 18:12 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1602

this shape isn't any wmo-alike, it's much smaller(even smaller than kinzu)

<< Comment #1608 @ 10:07 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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By

jamalz - Reply to #1595

DAT VELOCITY.

LOOKS ABSOLUTELY MONEY, SON.

SHIT, this looking baller.

<< Comment #1606 @ 09:59 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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gienon - Reply to #1595

I've clicked the shit out of the Pre-Order button and nothing happened ;/////

<< Comment #1605 @ 08:48 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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By

faerie_

Can we hope for a 3.0 clone somewhere in the future if you don't go bust ? :p

<< Comment #1607 @ 10:05 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1605

Maybe, I don't know, maybe a 4.0 instead? Zowie already has the EC which is very similar to a 3.0 afaik? Also I read in a lot of places that the shape of the 4.0 is a bit nicer than the 3.0, and that the 4.0 was ruined mostly by a few things like the scroll wheel and sensor... in other words the 4.0 could be "better" than the 3.0 if done well. But I'm open to suggestions.

But yes I do plan to make new molds if it goes well, and theres some ideas which I can put into them which I wasn't able to with these current mice.

<< Comment #1609 @ 10:10 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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faerie_ - Reply to #1607

well, the problem is that for the price of an ec I can still buy 2 3.0 from ebay. So it's not exactly a smart move, especially considering I'm more interested in the smaller version than the actual 3.0sized one - I'd still be using a wmo if it didn't give me cramps because of the straight sides.

<< Comment #1610 @ 12:09 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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Anonymous (174.89.211.171) - Reply to #1607

How much does it cost to make new shapes as opposed to reusing existing ones?

<< Comment #1612 @ 13:48 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1610

It depends on quite a few things, but to make a new shape costs over $10,000 usually, so you need to sell a lot or its not worth it.

It costs about $2,000 to put something like the Aurora PCB into another pre-existing shape, so its quite a bit cheaper. Again it depends on a few things, but not as many as a new shape.

<< Comment #1611 @ 12:51 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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By

lemming#13 - Reply to #1607

Dunno. While me personally I like the shape of the IE 4.0, one reason the 3.0 stuck with many people is its size. Its the biggest mouse out there, palmgrip ofc. Its bigger than a Deathadder and an EC1 by quite a bit. EC2 doesn't even come close. Yes yes, its only in the mm still but whatever. I do believe that the size of it is what makes it a legend to some - combined with the good tracking ofc.

<< Comment #1613 @ 14:48 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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faerie_ - Reply to #1611

Small hands, clawgrip.
The deathadder feels bigger ( or rather more cuboid/straight ) making it awkward to hold. It's not the size, it's t he shape.

<< Comment #1614 @ 15:20 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1613

Both, the DA and the IE are palm-grip shapewise. The IE is still bigger. So...it's the size not the shape? Whatever.

<< Comment #1615 @ 15:40 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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faerie_ - Reply to #1614

They're both whatever is the most comfortable for the person holding it. Have you see how some people palm a wmo sideways ? I couldn't hold a da comfortably at all, no matter what the grip was because, despite being smaller than a 3.0, the straigth edges and glossy sides just felt like shit to me. I could probably play with a brick if I was scuplted like a 3.0.

<< Comment #1618 @ 17:50 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1615

Does it matter? I just mentioned that the IE, overall, is bigger than a DA. In the end we both argue that sticking to the IE shell will be better than trying to make another DA-shaped or DA-sized mouse. If that is due to size (me) or shape (you) doesn't make a difference.

<< Comment #1635 @ 11:34 CDT, 11 October 2012 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #1607

I want a 1.1 clone.

<< Comment #1636 @ 12:41 CDT, 11 October 2012 >>

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By

teioh - Reply to #1635

Ditto, except bigger mousefeet.

<< Comment #1616 @ 16:50 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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By

MarktheC

Re Driver Settings > Other > Windows Pointer Speed slider:

Windows allows (internally) other settings than just 1/11 thru 6/11: There are +/- 0.5 fractional settings available, with a corresponding 'between' sensitivity.
(The Control Panel slider can't display or set these middle settings, but you can set them in the registry.)

I do know of at least one person who has set and uses a '+0.5' sensitivity.

It might be useful if the Aurora & Velocity mouse drivers allowed setting these +/- fractional settings in it's UI?

Here are the (internal) Control Panel pointer speed slider positions, and their corresponding sensitivity factors:

Slider Sens Factor (EPP off)
1/11 × 0.03125
2/11 × 0.0625
'2.5'/11 × 0.125
3/11 × 0.25
'3.5'/11 × 0.375
4/11 × 0.5
'4.5'/11 × 0.625
5/11 × 0.75
'5.5'/11 × 0.875
6/11 × 1
'6.5'/11 × 1.25
7/11 × 1.5
'7.5'/11 × 1.75
8/11 × 2
'8.5'/11 × 2.25
9/11 × 2.5
'9.5'/11 × 2.75
10/11 × 3
'10.5'/11 × 3.25
11/11 × 3.5

Using the slider you have, that would add extra selectable positions at -3.5, -2.5, -1.5, -0.5, +0.5, +1.5, +2.5, +3.5, +4.5.
(Note: there is no -4.5 available.)

Edited by MarktheC at 16:54 CDT, 8 October 2012

<< Comment #1617 @ 17:29 CDT, 8 October 2012 >>

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By

nogaydar - Reply to #1616

I would see more useful if the mouse drivers would give the option to install the markc acceleration pach in correspondence with the windows sensitivity that has been choosen. Anyway, probably both things are asking a little bit too much.

<< Comment #1622 @ 13:16 CDT, 9 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1616

Thanks for letting me know, shouldn't be too hard to add it. I won't ask for it just yet, I don't want to risk more delay of the beta samples any further, but I'll see if it can be done during the test, along with anything else the beta testers notice.

<< Comment #1623 @ 11:10 CDT, 10 October 2012 >>

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Anonymous (202.156.9.10) - Reply to #1622

Is there a way I can pre-order these things?

<< Comment #1630 @ 01:10 CDT, 11 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1623

Not yet, will be a little while yet - when the websites up. See http://www.esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gam...pid2327521

The pre-orders might not be available as soon as the website is opened, but there will be a notification list you can sign up to. It won't be much longer after the site it opened though.

<< Comment #1624 @ 13:56 CDT, 10 October 2012 >>

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By

JDMYO

I asked this a few months ago but I don't think anything has been posted yet:-
Can we have a finalised description with specs ans pics so that all the correct info of each mouse is easily accessible in one small space :)
Thanks - can't wait to buy this!

<< Comment #1625 @ 14:46 CDT, 10 October 2012 >>

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By

0x5f3759df - Reply to #1624

er, read the main post?

<< Comment #1626 @ 14:48 CDT, 10 October 2012 >>

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JDMYO - Reply to #1625

Isn't it out of date? :o

<< Comment #1628 @ 15:21 CDT, 10 October 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #1626

afaik nothing has really changed since he updated it.

all the posts after the update are related to the velocity, website, and drivers

<< Comment #1629 @ 15:31 CDT, 10 October 2012 >>

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JDMYO - Reply to #1628

Ah, ok thanks - I must have seen it pre-update :)

<< Comment #1627 @ 14:53 CDT, 10 October 2012 >>

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By

Deadlynoob

Yo bst, I heard they were looking for a mouse for the mass drop subreddit on reddit and someone mentioned esr and bst's new mouse development. Maybe you can get in touch with the person in charge of mass buy and get your mouse on the market. http://www.reddit.com/r/massdrop for more details

<< Comment #1631 @ 01:10 CDT, 11 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1627

Thanks, looks interesting, I'll look into it!

<< Comment #1632 @ 06:33 CDT, 11 October 2012 >>

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By

croaton

"The company name is "Ninox", which is a genus of Owl, and is meant to convey the idea of a stealthy intelligent hunter which can see in the dark"

Sorry mate, owls are dumb as fuck

<< Comment #1633 @ 07:48 CDT, 11 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1632

Lol, well I was going to use the word 'wise', since thats what owls symbolise (at least in some parts of the world), but intelligent just seemed to fit better in the sentence. But yeah... xD

<< Comment #1658 @ 23:24 CDT, 15 October 2012 >>

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SyncError - Reply to #1633

And owls are symbols of death in many Native American cultures, which gives a nice duel meaning here.

<< Comment #1662 @ 18:07 CDT, 19 October 2012 >>

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Teen Queen ' - Reply to #1658

I sincerely hope this was a pun.
If so, props.

<< Comment #1663 @ 20:49 CDT, 19 October 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1662

he simply meant that QL duels are dead

Edited by h8m3 at 20:49 CDT, 19 October 2012

<< Comment #1638 @ 17:33 CDT, 12 October 2012 >>

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Anonymous (12.49.217.147) - Reply to #1632

I second this. Please reconsider you branding. I strongly believe you can come up with a better brand name and model names as those borrowed from the owl family.

<< Comment #1639 @ 19:13 CDT, 12 October 2012 >>

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nogaydar - Reply to #1638

I dont give a damm about the brand. Brand name is for the people that dont know what they are buying.

<< Comment #1644 @ 02:11 CDT, 13 October 2012 >>

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Anonymous (94.21.185.78) - Reply to #1638

obviously, it should be rebranded to "sK1LLfüHReR" while the model names changes to AimSatan666 and N00BSODOMIZERxXx420xXx

<< Comment #1640 @ 21:56 CDT, 12 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1638

Second it? He didn't say I should change the branding, he was just being funny :)

Its well known that owls are symbolic of intelligence (and many other positive things), its really not much to do with the biological truth of the creatures, but their symbolism and mythology.

You can read it differently too. NIN is a homage to Quake 1. The OX symbolises power and strength.

I could go on, but I'll just end by saying a lot of brand names are a bit strange if you think about it, like for example "Reebok". It stops sounding strange once it becomes more well known.

<< Comment #1641 @ 22:39 CDT, 12 October 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1640

Or steelseries. Sounds like a kitchen cutlery brand.

<< Comment #1634 @ 09:54 CDT, 11 October 2012 >>

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»bst

Oh yeah, I forgot to say, the warranty has been changed to 2 years instead of 1.

Also since quite a few people said they wanted to buy more than one mouse, I've been thinking about giving a reward for it, something like an extended warranty maybe. But I'm interested to see what people would like, so if you have any ideas then feel free to suggest them.

<< Comment #1637 @ 19:08 CDT, 11 October 2012 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #1634

two for the price of one lolz

Edited by KittenIgnition at 19:09 CDT, 11 October 2012

<< Comment #1643 @ 02:11 CDT, 13 October 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #1634

extra mouse skatez - perhaps discounts on your mousepad (make one goddamnit)

<< Comment #1642 @ 00:16 CDT, 13 October 2012 >>

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By

GuiGeek - Reply to #1634

Free mouseskates?

<< Comment #1649 @ 07:52 CDT, 13 October 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1642

yeah, 2 extra sets of mousefeet sounds nice

<< Comment #1645 @ 04:24 CDT, 13 October 2012 >>

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JDMYO

I can't decide weather to wait for the Aurora or buy a Zowie AM... I need to replace my Abyssus - the sensor's pissing me off, I don't have any confidence in it any more. I Just can't decide which I should go for. My main worry with both mice is that they're too small for me, I have large hands. I love the size of the WMO but all in all, the Zowie AM and the Aurora are the only two mice out there (soon) that are appealing to me to replace my Abyssus. The Aurora is lighter and is putting out the best performance stats with the silly high tracking speeds but I have a feeling the AM will feel slightly bigger to hold having flat sides, being longer and not tapering off towards the back. Obviously the dimensions are very very similar but for 'these' reasons I think the AM will feel bigger.
What to do? What to do?! :)

<< Comment #1646 @ 05:35 CDT, 13 October 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1645

buy both

<< Comment #1647 @ 07:33 CDT, 13 October 2012 >>

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JDMYO - Reply to #1646

:) a few years ago, I would have but now I have my own house - money's tight so I need to choose :)

<< Comment #1648 @ 07:47 CDT, 13 October 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1647

:(

I think the length of the aurora is pretty similar to the abyssus. How do you like the shape of the abyssus?

<< Comment #1650 @ 16:21 CDT, 13 October 2012 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #1645

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sxk2tkyb9pl2il2/fNykze4Hu8
Comparison with a lot of mice and also with the AM.
Thanks Trex for that (I hope he wouldn't mind that I share his link here)

<< Comment #1651 @ 01:30 CDT, 14 October 2012 >>

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B4ZE - Reply to #1650

Nice pics man ty!

<< Comment #1652 @ 02:20 CDT, 14 October 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1651

also http://imgur.com/a/z2vPZ

<< Comment #1656 @ 20:36 CDT, 15 October 2012 >>

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By

0x5f3759df - Reply to #1652

which model artisan is that

<< Comment #1657 @ 22:19 CDT, 15 October 2012 >>

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By

h8m3 - Reply to #1656

one year old hien hard navy blue

<< Comment #1694 @ 11:21 CDT, 28 October 2012 >>

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hfcobra - Reply to #1652

You forgot to weigh the Abyssus. Would you mind adding that to the images? I have never seen so many mice weighed with the same scale in one place by one person. It would be nice to have a correct comparison for once without just looking up different people weighing them and most likely having varying amounts of the cord on the scale.

With just one person doing it and doing it the same every time then it will be easy to compare the mice knowing that you most likely weighed them all in the same way. :)

Edited by hfcobra at 11:38 CDT, 28 October 2012

<< Comment #1696 @ 12:36 CDT, 28 October 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1694

yeah i could do it later including more mice, just couldnt be bothered assembling my abyssus back when i weighted these mice

<< Comment #1697 @ 15:05 CDT, 28 October 2012 >>

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hfcobra - Reply to #1696

Thank you! I like my Zowie AM at the moment but I would like something that is a little lighter with buttons that are a bit easier to press with a little less travel. The Abyssus feels a little too light and the buttons are far too squishy. I think that with the way the buttons are made on the Aurora it will be much better feeling than the ones on the Abyssus. So basically the Aurora seems like the perfect mouse for me, might be a tad light, but I'll get used to it. :)

I just want to see exactly how light it is compared to something that is a little closer to it's preached weight than the AM. It would be easier to imagine how it will feel when I use it.

Also, have you modified the AM that you own in any way? I was wondering since Zowie says it weighs 88g but your scale says 79g.

Edited by hfcobra at 15:09 CDT, 28 October 2012

<< Comment #1698 @ 15:19 CDT, 28 October 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1697

i'll reweight them all since i didnt zero the weights between different mice and noticed that it was -8g or smth in the end, but i didnt bother reweighting them after that. Also these kitchen scales are quite old and bad for precise +/-1g measuring, and it's fairly hard to measure the mouse without cord impact so it could be +/- quite a few grams but I'll try to make it more accurate 2nd time

<< Comment #1722 @ 18:17 CDT, 3 November 2012 >>

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hfcobra - Reply to #1698

Do you have a link to the newly weighed mice or are you going to add it to the imgur link that you provide already?

<< Comment #1724 @ 19:05 CDT, 3 November 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1722

I'll add it this week when i have time

<< Comment #1653 @ 09:46 CDT, 14 October 2012 >>

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JDMYO - Reply to #1650

Hm, I think maybe the Aurora is the one for me - the AM looks too thin in the middle and up front where I would hold it. Just hope the tapered back of the Aurora is gunna be ok for me.
So I'll wait for the Aurora - so when can we have it?! :) when? WHEN!? :)

<< Comment #1666 @ 19:54 CDT, 21 October 2012 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #1650

Wait, what shell is that? Velocity or Aurora?

Looks to small compared to the WMO which is already a small mouse. Looks like it's time to stack up in a couple of WMO's..

<< Comment #1654 @ 13:28 CDT, 15 October 2012 >>

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By

lemming#13

57gr only for the Velocity. That's really amazing, I hope this stays with the final shell. Still, me personally I'm going for the Aurora. Side buttons....

<< Comment #1664 @ 23:15 CDT, 19 October 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #1654

The shell needs some spiffy coating/painting or something to attract scrub casuals or velocity won't make it.

<< Comment #1665 @ 23:31 CDT, 19 October 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1664

Lights aren't enough? Don't wanna mutilate this beauty too much.

Edited by end0rphine at 23:31 CDT, 19 October 2012

<< Comment #1655 @ 20:25 CDT, 15 October 2012 >>

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»bst

Hmm just realised I never posted a paint test pic of the Aurora sample I have, so here it is:
http://i.imgur.com/zSE8E.png
The tracking is really good imo, the little blips on it are caused by me not being used to 1600 dpi and slipping a little.

<< Comment #1659 @ 23:37 CDT, 15 October 2012 >>

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By

Xen_Crypt - Reply to #1655

mmmmm

<< Comment #1660 @ 00:08 CDT, 16 October 2012 >>

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By

hazrd

So much teasing going on here.

Edited by hazrd at 00:09 CDT, 16 October 2012

<< Comment #1661 @ 16:29 CDT, 19 October 2012 >>

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By

croaton

I would love to see some stats from ESR about this thread.

<< Comment #1667 @ 19:59 CDT, 21 October 2012 >>

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nemecel

bst if I pay you some extra money, could you build a custom mouse that it's basically the sensor of the Velocity with the WMO case? Sorry I was hoping that at least one of the 2 mouses would have a classic and simple look but they look too small compared to the WMO and almost as gay as these razer mice in design. I want old ass school looking office mouse like WMO.

<< Comment #1668 @ 11:27 CDT, 22 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1667

I'm going to do larger mice in the future, sorry but I can't do one offs (not for a reasonable price anyway). The Aurora isn't much smaller than a WMO, btw :)

<< Comment #1676 @ 14:20 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #1668

So who is the mouse that feels/looks more like the WMO, the Velocity or the Aurora? because I hate sidebuttons.

<< Comment #1679 @ 16:21 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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croaton - Reply to #1668

Could you give us a number for "custom" mice.

Say I could find 30 people wanting your mouse with a WMO-shell, how much would it run me/us?

You have the contacts you know!

<< Comment #1680 @ 17:19 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1679

When the 3090 sensor development is complete, I will put it into larger mice like the WMO. It won't take nearly as long as the Aurora because all the difficult R&D will be done, so its better to wait for that, because making 30 entails almost as much work. Also there is a minimum order quantity, usually at least 1000. It might be possible to lower the MOQ but it'd be something like $200 per mouse, and thats making it with some OEM knock-off WMO shell, which probably wouldn't be the best quality :/

<< Comment #1672 @ 09:29 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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zealot - Reply to #1667

the mx300 was an old school looking office mouse, just of higher built quality than the wmo/3.0 :}

bst's mice seem to closely resemble the mx300 (which originally is the logitech pilot shape), you never tried one of those, pilot/mx300/g1/g3?

<< Comment #1673 @ 09:46 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1672

Would you use the aurora or the velocity at the office? Nope, therefore not a old school looking office mouse.

I don't really care about that really, though it'd undoubtedly get better sales if it could attract both markets. What it's a must for me is that it has to have a perfect side grip, flat sides (wmo) and enough room for my thumb (abyssus sort of fails on this last aspect).
It also has to be comfortable enough for absurdly long periods of hardcore sweaty videogaming, which I'm not very confident about with the aurora. For example the wmo could improve a bit (smaller at the bottom, hideous cable) though in general terms its shape and weight is way better than most, which is probably the main reason why we all love it.

Edited by megaman3 at 09:52 CDT, 23 October 2012

<< Comment #1674 @ 09:49 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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zealot - Reply to #1673

i was under the impression he was mostly whining about the shape not design.

<< Comment #1677 @ 14:21 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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By

nemecel - Reply to #1672

Nope, but I had a mx500. I've considered getting a mx300 but I may end up buying a wmo again since im not liking the bst mouse shapes at all, I hate that razer crap and I hate side buttons. Also by getting a mouse of the same sensor I dont need to change sensitivty.

Edited by nemecel at 14:21 CDT, 23 October 2012

<< Comment #1669 @ 11:50 CDT, 22 October 2012 >>

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By

Have you received the Aurora beta samples yet?

<< Comment #1671 @ 08:36 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1669

Not yet, apparently is going to be this week, but I've heard that for the past 3 weeks -_-

I just want to get the beta test mice, then I'll have a lot more confidence to put up pre-orders etc. So everything is kind of waiting for it.

In all honestly though I'm not too bothered about it, even though I keep on at them, I'm happy that they are being so thorough with it. Ofc I wish it was faster, but not at the cost of quality.

Btw, when they developed the 3050 sensor, they had already developed it before so had a lot of experience to build on, but they haven't worked with the 3090 at all before I asked for it, thats the main reason its taken much longer than the 3050 version.

<< Comment #1678 @ 14:35 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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smari - Reply to #1671

I thought the beta test started quite some time ago?
I remember seeing nvc's vids testing your mouse on amphi.

<< Comment #1681 @ 17:21 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1678

That was the Velocity with the 3050 sensor, and it was using the Aurora shell.

<< Comment #1670 @ 01:20 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (91.4.87.37)

when can we buy it ?

<< Comment #1691 @ 14:22 CDT, 26 October 2012 >>

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By

Teen Queen ' - Reply to #1670

soon.

<< Comment #1675 @ 12:54 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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By

How long is the beta test going to be for the Aurora? It seems like there's no way it's coming out this year.

<< Comment #1682 @ 17:37 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1675

Not that long, because the shell and switches have already been tested in the 3050 beta test, so I just want to get an idea of what people think of the sensor (on different surfaces etc), if its all good then the only thing that stands between manufacturing is the certification for CE and FCC. But yes I'm sorry to say its actual release is more likely January now, because of the further delays with the sensor R&D, but if I rush that then the whole thing is pointless, hope everyone understands that! But it will definitely be available to pre-order before xmas.

I know the waiting is frustrating but I really want everything to be great, the ordering and delivery process, the mouse, and the support. Its like the holy trinity to me ;)

<< Comment #1683 @ 18:29 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1682

and how much to the velocity?

My concern with that one is that it might be a bit too small, but having 3 buttons it means it's the wmo replacement.

Edited by megaman3 at 18:29 CDT, 23 October 2012

<< Comment #1685 @ 19:44 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1683

Really shortly afterwards, works going to resume on it as soon as the Aurora is being certified, so maybe a month and a bit after, depends how it goes.

<< Comment #1687 @ 20:09 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #1682

My birthday is the 16th of January. I'm expecting to have an Aurora by then! :P

<< Comment #1707 @ 06:35 CDT, 30 October 2012 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #1682

Can I pust pics from the current Aurora AND Velocity shapes and it'ts measurements? It's not clear at all after so many different shapes and incorrect naming of the shapes during betatest.

<< Comment #1708 @ 06:42 CDT, 30 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1707

Take a look at the original post, the links at the bottom show the different specs of the Aurora and Velocity.

The Velocity is using shell 2 now.

<< Comment #1709 @ 13:31 CDT, 30 October 2012 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #1708

Why? The first one looked more solid and wmo-ish. And why it has to be smaller? Smaller size than the WMO and it starts to be useless for fps unless you have korean hands.

<< Comment #1710 @ 13:45 CDT, 30 October 2012 >>

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By

megaman3 - Reply to #1709

then get the other one (aurora)

<< Comment #1711 @ 19:07 CDT, 30 October 2012 >>

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By

nemecel - Reply to #1710

I hate side buttons.

<< Comment #1713 @ 06:50 CDT, 31 October 2012 >>

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By

megaman3 - Reply to #1711

don't use them. Unbind them in-game and for windows if you want to (though they are the best thing ever for browsing and desktop usage).

If I wasn't picky I would use the ime instead of a wmo (5 buttons and more grip)m but I like flat sides.

Edited by megaman3 at 07:23 CDT, 31 October 2012

<< Comment #1714 @ 06:55 CDT, 31 October 2012 >>

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toggl - Reply to #1711

There is a space for your thumb to sit, without ever touching the side buttons. I don't see a good reason for side button hate though.

<< Comment #1717 @ 08:22 CDT, 31 October 2012 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #1714

It's enough to drive me insane if I touch the for a second with my thumb. It stresses me out ingame.

How is the size/grip compared to the wmo? I use fringer grip.

Anyone who has tried it (the Aurora since the Velocity is ridiculously small) needed to change their sens when moving from wmo to Aurora? (as in ingame sens)

Edited by nemecel at 08:22 CDT, 31 October 2012

<< Comment #1712 @ 21:26 CDT, 30 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1709

I thought that too from the photo, but its not that much like a wmo when you hold it, actually the 2nd shell is closer imo. Also the 2nd shell can have a DPI button on top which the other one can't.

Btw, the side buttons on the Aurora aren't intrusive, at least none of the beta testers said they were and I don't find them to be.

<< Comment #1684 @ 18:56 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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By

jamalz

fucking got massive blue balls bst, wtf brah

<< Comment #1686 @ 19:47 CDT, 23 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1684

Sorry, I never meant for anyones balls to get blue, I only wanted a kind of tinge of blue at the most :(((

Edited by »bst at 19:48 CDT, 23 October 2012

<< Comment #1689 @ 16:25 CDT, 25 October 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1686

If you tickle long enough it becomes quite the torture ;)

<< Comment #1688 @ 16:35 CDT, 24 October 2012 >>

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By

resis

Tha wait is killing me, but I was 1000% sure it would not be before christmas/new-year, because it never is.

<< Comment #1690 @ 13:31 CDT, 26 October 2012 >>

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By

hfcobra

Please be sure that the Aurora is going to be tested on a Hayate. I would be crushed if I bought one and it did not track properly on my favorite mousepad. :(

Thanks for working so hard on this! You just don't see that often. :)

<< Comment #1692 @ 06:09 CDT, 28 October 2012 >>

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hfcobra - Reply to #1690

Also, just wondering to anyone who has tried the mouse. How does the cable compare to the cable on the Zowie AM? I really like how flexible the cable on the AM is and I have never run into any other mouse that has a cable quite like the AM's. I hope that the cable on the Aurora is similar or maybe even more flexible than the AM's. :)

<< Comment #1693 @ 07:50 CDT, 28 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1690

I'll see if one of the beta testers has a Hayate and ask them to test on it :)
Thanks :)

<< Comment #1695 @ 11:21 CDT, 28 October 2012 >>

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hfcobra - Reply to #1693

Thank you. :)

<< Comment #1701 @ 15:44 CDT, 28 October 2012 >>

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By

I'm pretty sure one of the testers on OCN has an Artisan Hayate--most likely either HaiiYaa or HerpDerp.

<< Comment #1699 @ 15:29 CDT, 28 October 2012 >>

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By

Ffleri

Will it finally be released or rather not?
...
...
...
When will I be able to click that "buy" button and order your mouse?

<< Comment #1700 @ 15:40 CDT, 28 October 2012 >>

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Teen Queen ' - Reply to #1699

before Christmas.

Edited by Anhedonique at 15:42 CDT, 28 October 2012

<< Comment #1702 @ 17:47 CDT, 28 October 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1700

Maybe after Christmas

<< Comment #1703 @ 18:11 CDT, 28 October 2012 >>

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By

BST already said it's probably going to be January.

<< Comment #1704 @ 23:10 CDT, 28 October 2012 >>

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resis - Reply to #1703

But I still hope before.

<< Comment #1705 @ 23:37 CDT, 28 October 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1704

You know what they say about hope.

<< Comment #1706 @ 13:35 CDT, 29 October 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1705

Hope is a die hard?

<< Comment #1715 @ 07:16 CDT, 31 October 2012 >>

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By

»bst

Update:

The drivers/firmware has been finished, and the PCBs are being made for the beta test atm (the shells are already made), so not going to be much longer at all. Also because it took so long a new MCU came out which is faster, so its been upgraded a bit too :)

<< Comment #1716 @ 07:21 CDT, 31 October 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1715

Just wanted to ask, what sort of rubber are you going to be using? I usually like glossy, however if the rubber is actually useful (like the rubber on the Xai) instead of the crap rubber on the Zowie series then I'll go rubber. How does it feel? Is it actually grippy instead of the extremely smooth surface of the Zowie series (if you're not sure what I'm talking about, imagine a surface that is extremely smooth with barely any friction, and no matter how moist your hand gets, the mouse won't stick to your hand)?

<< Comment #1718 @ 09:25 CDT, 31 October 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1716

Its kind of like the Kinzu I have, maybe a little less grippy but not much. I asked if it could be more grippy but the factory said they can't, I'll ask again before they are made though. But its not really slippery or anything like that (I don't have a Zowie mouse though so can't directly compare it).

Edited by »bst at 09:25 CDT, 31 October 2012

<< Comment #1719 @ 16:34 CDT, 31 October 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.156) - Reply to #1715

I have a Zowie white edition and a Deathadder black edition. The Deathadder's coating is slippery for me and the Zowies' paint is not.

So if the rubber is like the Deathadder's side coating (likely) then it will not have much grip. But the sides are grainy plastic so it is irrelevant. Also it is a lighter mouse which also plays a part.

Now if I had a beta sample I could actually give a legitimate comment. Everything I said is based on experience with other mice.

BST if you need anymore competitive FPS players (played CS since 1.0) to beta test the new samples message me [PopUps] at Overclock.

<< Comment #1720 @ 09:58 CDT, 2 November 2012 >>

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»bst

I have set up a newsletter for those that would like the latest updates by email.

Its just a temporary one for the Ninox Aurora, it will announce everything people need to know about the Aurora development all the way up until its released:
https://tinyletter.com/ninox

When the Aurora is released, that newsletter will stop, the last newsletter will direct you to the website where there will be a more general newsletter, which will also cover the Velocity development, and everything else, going into the future.

<< Comment #1721 @ 23:10 CDT, 2 November 2012 >>

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Deadlynoob

Just so you know the massdrop reddit is getting interested in this mouse. Every topic that ask what mouse the community wants a massdrop on has a bst mouse suggestion in the comment section. Hurry up and get this out before another gaming mouse goes on that subreddit and all of its users jump on board to buy competition's gaming mouse. Maybe sell to the massdrop as a pre-release test to see how well it does and work out the kinks afterwards since that ship is about to leave.

<< Comment #1723 @ 18:38 CDT, 3 November 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1721

If it is that popular this could use an indiegogo fundraiser. I know it's backed up by a company (ninox) but it's free money, whether to it or to bst.

Edited by megaman3 at 18:38 CDT, 3 November 2012

<< Comment #1725 @ 19:05 CDT, 3 November 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1721

Are you asking BST to pull a Puretrak?

<< Comment #1726 @ 19:21 CDT, 3 November 2012 >>

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Teen Queen ' - Reply to #1721

I'd rather wait for a fully functional product than getting a half-assed release

<< Comment #1727 @ 03:08 CST, 4 November 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1721

I appreciate your suggestion, and its really nice to see it being popular on there, but its just not ready until its ready, theres not really any such thing as a pre-release, not a good one anyway :(

<< Comment #1728 @ 10:12 CST, 4 November 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1727

You da man. Finish it. Polish it. Profit. Not the other way around.

<< Comment #1729 @ 11:36 CST, 4 November 2012 >>

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resis - Reply to #1727

Pluck it when it's ripe.

<< Comment #1730 @ 12:00 CST, 4 November 2012 >>

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Deadlynoob - Reply to #1727

Okay fair enough, I'm just saying there's a market for it right now. A huge number of people are actually looking to get a gaming mouse and they got their eye set on this(myself included). Please release it before Christmas and spend some time marketing it for Christmas sales since that's when 50% of the mice will be purchased during the year. It is just like how in the real retail world 90% of the profits are earned during Christmas times.

<< Comment #1731 @ 12:19 CST, 4 November 2012 >>

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resis - Reply to #1730

A Christmas release would be good busniess, but if it's impossible, than you have to accept the missed opportunity. Seven weeks seem a short time, considering the beta testing probably didn't even start yet.
Wonder what the odds for a release next month are.

Edited by resis at 15:05 CST, 4 November 2012

<< Comment #1732 @ 15:53 CST, 4 November 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1731

Pre-orders will definitely be open before Christmas, so at least people can reserve one, but its been too long in development to be released before Christmas, it takes 2 months after the design is final, to certify and make the mice.

I'll put it in for certification asap, because the components aren't going to change, since the switches etc have already been beta tested, and the MCU is fine. But I will give a few days of beta testing just to make sure. The beta testing will mostly be for tweaking the firmware for release, which can happen at the same time as the certification is happening.

Btw I tried the drivers the other day. I was warned by the factory that they weren't fully compatible with my old alpha version of the mouse and that they would break it, but I used them anyway :p They broke the mouse after about 15 mins :( Anyway I got to see the tracking at a lot of DPI steps. Only thing is I started a new paint file and tried some other settings, and thats when the mouse died :( I wish I had saved the pic I done originally, because the tracking was excellent. Also I can confirm there is a 400 DPI step, and the tracking is absolutely flawless. I didn't get a chance to test the max speeds but I did test 1600 DPI before I got the drivers, it was over 4m/s, so should be fine!

<< Comment #1733 @ 16:34 CST, 4 November 2012 >>

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resis - Reply to #1732

By the way, do you remember the question whether it was possible to hold down the dpi button and scroll the wheel to scroll up and down the dpi with the 50dpi steps?

Not asking. Just felt like needed to remind about that idea.

Otherwise thanks for the input.

<< Comment #1740 @ 13:30 CST, 13 November 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1733

Sorry I forgot to reply to you. yes I remember, I think its a cool idea :) There might be a chance to do it, but if not then I will try and do it in an update.

<< Comment #1734 @ 17:34 CST, 9 November 2012 >>

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By

OvO

the wise owl still uses WMO

<< Comment #1735 @ 13:02 CST, 11 November 2012 >>

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Anonymous (67.80.27.250) - Reply to #1734

will you be trying to this mouse?

<< Comment #1736 @ 22:06 CST, 12 November 2012 >>

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By

B4ZE

I think regarding playing video games, the biggest improvement in gear should realy be monitors. If you happend to have some contact in the monitor industrie you might wanna check what is possible to improve and what in this sector is actualy possible. I am convinced that if there was compagnies selling 240hz (or even much more) monitors for no more than 500$ there could be a realy big market for it (at least much bigger than trying to sell branded gaming mouse ofc). I think we all dreamed about 1000hz flat monitors. Keep us updated anyway the mouse looks promising and the ergonomy sound a bit better than my wmo so i will probably grab one of thoose.

<< Comment #1738 @ 09:58 CST, 13 November 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.75)

Why does the 3050 get more CPI steps than the 3090?

<< Comment #1739 @ 13:23 CST, 13 November 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1738

It just has more default sensor steps, but you can choose custom DPI of 100-6000 in steps of 50 with the Aurora drivers.

<< Comment #1737 @ 05:50 CST, 13 November 2012 >>

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By

!nFerNo

1Ghz monitors if monitors now usually have 60Hz or 120 if you are lucky?

edit: reply fail :>

Edited by !nFerNo at 05:22 CST, 5 December 2012

<< Comment #1741 @ 15:21 CST, 13 November 2012 >>

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How many of the 3050's dpi steps are native, non-interpolated?

<< Comment #1742 @ 05:31 CST, 17 November 2012 >>

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Anonymous (64.56.240.68)

I really hope the designer doesn't underestimate the importance of good mouse feet.
Hyperglide feet for the 1.1 / 3.0 are the best I've ever used.
Large surface feet... I'm not a big fan.
Anyways, I feel like the feet should be fairly thick, very hard, and definitely rounded in all areas (any sharp corners end up catching on the mousepad depending on how you pickup and move the mouse).
Just my thoughts but I think it needs to be said because for many years all manufacturers have been screwing this up.

<< Comment #1773 @ 13:07 CST, 9 December 2012 >>

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crea* - Reply to #1742

As long as it is top grade teflon, the glider area does not matter at least on hard pads, as teflon is a unique material with the property of sticking friction = gliding friction. BUT, on cloth pads the sinking into the pad also has to be considered. there, more space equals less sinking in, thus less friction.

also, bigger feet wear out slower, making them superior in every way.

<< Comment #1743 @ 18:11 CST, 22 November 2012 >>

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By

Anonymous (85.228.222.139)

What are the chances for this mouse you posted

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7096/3b1t.jpg
http://www.esreality.com/files/placeimages/2011/84702-3b2.jpg

to be released with side buttons? The shells I've seen so far just seem small and unergonomic but a shell like this would be an instant buy

<< Comment #1744 @ 23:43 CST, 22 November 2012 >>

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Anonymous (70.193.13.33)

Been looking for a replacement for my trusty Diamondback, as I'm a claw grip style player.

Can you compare the two since you said you have a Diamondback?

Thanks!

<< Comment #1745 @ 03:52 CST, 23 November 2012 >>

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By

Eviili

15e cheapchink mouz profi gejming JAJAJA!!

http://cenopoisk.ru/uploads/catalog/mouse/mus...108149.jpg

gembird musg1, theres also uk/nl distributers so go on fetch dogs!

http://www.gmb.nl/egmb/default.aspx?op=produc...mp;id=5456

Edited by Eviili at 03:59 CST, 23 November 2012

<< Comment #1746 @ 19:24 CST, 24 November 2012 >>

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Anonymous (79.242.81.33)

Those mouses will rock.

I've been searching for a good one for so long..

Hope i can find one of your mouses in some time back at my table killing some guys with it in game (;

So, keep going dude - your doing great job!

<< Comment #1747 @ 22:14 CST, 24 November 2012 >>

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By

jamalz

update bst?

did you sell your design to steelseries or just run out of money?

fuck son, going to buy a kana if you don't hurry up

<< Comment #1748 @ 08:30 CST, 25 November 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1747

there's a bst clone posted on this thread, if you want something better than the kana and that isn't a 14 year old microsoft.

<< Comment #1749 @ 19:42 CST, 1 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (62.183.155.183)

Hey bst,

Could it be possible to make the 400 cpi step native on Aurora by any chance? If it's a quick fix/can be done.

This would make this mouse the best option for older games like cs 1.6 and other games with WM_MOUSEMOVE/GetCursorPos.

Thanks!

<< Comment #1750 @ 08:11 CST, 2 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (78.28.19.169) - Reply to #1749

Yeah, it's perfect idea :D I'm interested what will say bst.
Peace

<< Comment #1751 @ 08:50 CST, 2 December 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1749

- DPI steps: 400 / 800 / 1600 / 3200 / 4000

<< Comment #1752 @ 08:21 CST, 3 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.78) - Reply to #1749

People are not going to play 1.6 anymore. Just saying.

I use 450 CPI and 1 sensitivity in 1.6. It is fine at that. I don't see why you would want it slower. Even if you use a CRT at 640x480 you wouldn't have a problem with games that use WM_MouseMove.

Isn't the newer versions of the Intellimouse 450 too? I haven't had one in years.

I would actually like to have native 500 CPI and 1000 CPI for today's games. To bad only the 3050 has that.

Anyway the 3090 has native 400 CPI.

<< Comment #1756 @ 05:08 CST, 5 December 2012 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #1752

sry but native resolutions are 1800/3500

<< Comment #1757 @ 07:02 CST, 5 December 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1756

with newer srom it's 800 / 1600 / 3200 / 4000 and 400 being optional to use instead of any of those 4

<< Comment #1753 @ 16:11 CST, 3 December 2012 >>

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resis

I will probably use 500 cpi, too.

<< Comment #1754 @ 02:58 CST, 5 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.75)

BST can the 3050 do 9000 frames per second?

<< Comment #1755 @ 05:06 CST, 5 December 2012 >>

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Bullveyr - Reply to #1754

no, 6666 fps iirc

<< Comment #1758 @ 20:54 CST, 5 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (31.193.139.10)

is it still expected to be released before xmas?

<< Comment #1759 @ 21:06 CST, 5 December 2012 >>

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Teen Queen ' - Reply to #1758

no

<< Comment #1760 @ 04:24 CST, 8 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.157)

Are you testing the 3050 right now? Does the blue/purple LED cause any issues with the sensor?

Didn't the old Zowie EC have issues when you went to the blue and purple settings? Wasn't that because of the blue LED light causing the sensor to malfunction?

<< Comment #1761 @ 04:29 CST, 8 December 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1760

Nothing in that post is true.

<< Comment #1762 @ 23:32 CST, 8 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.139) - Reply to #1761

3050 with blue light effects not compatible? Will the multicolor LED cause issues when set to blue?

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/6840/3050.png

Original EC with issues when the blue LED is active.

http://www.overclock.net/t/857997/my-zowie-ec...t_11195850

I have an original EC and I can say that this is the case.

<< Comment #1763 @ 23:50 CST, 8 December 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1762

1. The EC has the 3060 sensor.

2. The multicolor LED has nothing to do with how the sensor functions. The light doesn't touch the bottom of the mouse. The LED referred to in your post is the, well the LED illuminating the sensor position (red or IR-LED). In a regular mouse, there are 2 (sometimes 3) LEDs - 1 for the wheel/logo, 1 for the DPI levels and 1 for the sensor. IIRC BST is using an IR-LED for this mouse, but I could swear I've seen a paint test from BST showing how it looks, and it looks fine.

The issue in that post is most likely some issue with that specific DPI step and their custom lens.

Edited by end0rphine at 01:49 CST, 9 December 2012

<< Comment #1764 @ 00:33 CST, 9 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1762

I haven't experienced any problems with it at all, neither have any of the beta testers. I've been using and testing the mouse almost every day for nearly a year now with the blue LED 99% of the time, so its something I would have noticed, especially when doing graphic design. Also its held up really well, its still just like like when it was new (just thought I'd slip that in there ;))

I can't find anything in the OCN thread you posted about the blue LED, I only found a bit where Derp thinks the type of IR LED for the sensor might cause jitter on the EC mouse, but its not anything conclusive. Btw, Derp is a beta tester, he is very impressed with the mouse.

What I can maybe do, if people are worried about it, is ask the factory to put a cover over the sensor and LED, like this: http://i.imgur.com/Xtxhg.jpg
That should stop most of the light from mixing with the sensor LED. But like I say it hasn't been a problem at all.

Edited by »bst at 00:35 CST, 9 December 2012

<< Comment #1772 @ 12:29 CST, 9 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.155) - Reply to #1764

Yeah I was referring to the light effects LED possibly causing an issue with the sensor when the blue light mixes with the sensors LED. Not that the sensors LED is blue or something like that.

Are you using the assembly clip with the sensor? Maybe that helps keep the effects LED light away from the sensor. The Zowie didn't have that. If you are using it maybe you can remove it and set the light effects to blue and see what happens.

I'm talking about the 3050 not the 3090. Isn't the 3060 basically the 3050 with angle snapping?

It would be nice I can talk to you another way other than here.

<< Comment #1774 @ 13:32 CST, 9 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1772

Nope not using the assembly clip atm.

The 3050 isn't the same as the 3060. The 3060 is part of the same family as the 3080 and 3090. The 3050 comes from the 5095 as far as I know. Confusing isn't it :D

I'm in the IRC channel #ninox on quakenet if you want to chat there some time.

<< Comment #1765 @ 01:18 CST, 9 December 2012 >>

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»bst

Btw sorry everyone for being a bit quiet! There wasn't really much to say since other people are answering questions really well for me ;D Thanks for that!

ATM there aren't really any complete updates I can give, when I do it'll be on here and the newsletter. Things are moving along now though, so I should be sending the first newsletter out next week with some cool things in it :) (not just about the Aurora!). A big part of the reason for the delays the last couple of months is because this time of year factories are swamped with work for Christmas etc, but now in December its not as bad any more.

Heres the link for the newsletter for anyone who missed it: https://tinyletter.com/ninox

<< Comment #1766 @ 03:23 CST, 9 December 2012 >>

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PerpetualWar - Reply to #1765

Really interested in this.

<< Comment #1775 @ 02:27 CST, 12 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (174.67.215.250) - Reply to #1765

I just signed up for the newsletter and I clicked the view previous newsletters button but it doesn't work.

How can I get an update for "when the mouse can be pre-ordered, along with new developments, previews and some sneak peeks into the beta testing."
~flashfir

Thanks for your work! I'll be buying your mouse as soon as it's available for preorder!

<< Comment #1776 @ 03:22 CST, 12 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1775

Thanks! I haven't sent the first newsletter yet, which is why there aren't any previous ones atm, but I am going to very soon. It hasn't really been up for that long, so there hasn't been much to say yet, but I have a few things on the go, so hopefully tomorrow I can at least show one thing (its not the actual mouse just yet, but it is related to it), then really shortly afterwards there will be something about the mouse :)

<< Comment #1767 @ 03:37 CST, 9 December 2012 >>

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PerpetualWar

I just hope side buttons will be useful (good positioning + buttons), and not there just for feature.

<< Comment #1768 @ 05:22 CST, 9 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1767

So far I haven't had any complaints from the beta testers about them, they seem to be well liked.

In QL I have walk bound to the one closer to the rear, which I find really easy to hold down without losing grip of the mouse, and the front one is bound to the LG. I use them all the time and find them really well positioned, never have any trouble pressing them or avoiding them. The little dimple in the middle is really useful for telling them apart, too. I have average sized hands and don't hold the mouse in any strange way, so I think they should be fine for most people.

<< Comment #1769 @ 05:41 CST, 9 December 2012 >>

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PerpetualWar - Reply to #1768

I use one side button for crouch and other one for medikit so its kinda used on a regular basis.

I have DA which has almost perfect positioned side buttons, imo. Used 3.0 before, just MOUSE1 broke unfortunately. Side buttons on 3.0 were unusable really.

My perfect mouse would be: shape, weight, size from 3.0 and sensor, side buttons, main buttons (harder then on 3.0) from DA 3G.

Edited by PerpetualWar at 05:41 CST, 9 December 2012

<< Comment #1770 @ 07:46 CST, 9 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (213.112.129.195) - Reply to #1769

Have to disagree

I used the ms 3.0 for 5+ years and one thing that always haunted me when trying other mice was their stiff sidebuttons. With the 3.0 the side buttons they are so easy to press that it doesnt affect the cursor position at all. Which is important if you have have rail on MOUSE5...

With many mice you need to use you hand as an opposing force to get the button clicked however with the 3.0 you have a small bulge sticking out on the button. This makes you able to slide your thumb up or down past the button and still press it and it doesnt affect you aim.

the 3.0 also seems to have a different weight distribution that makes it feel lighter than it actually is.

If the 3.0 had built in 500hz and 2000 dpi ( rts games ) i would never look back.

<< Comment #1771 @ 09:12 CST, 9 December 2012 >>

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PerpetualWar - Reply to #1770

Side buttons on DA are not that stiff as you make it to be... but what's more of a problem with it is not stiffness of the side buttons, but their positioning. DA have them exactly right where they need to be considering the shape, unlike 3.0.

Well imho.

<< Comment #1778 @ 18:29 CST, 12 December 2012 >>

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acid_reptile - Reply to #1768

where are the beta testers for the aurora? did i miss someting?

<< Comment #1779 @ 00:16 CST, 13 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1778

The Velocity PCB/sensor etc is in the Aurora shell for its beta test, and it has the same switches that will be used as well.

So the Velocity PCB/sensor has been really well tested, and the Aurora shell with switches. All thats left really is to test the Aurora sensor/PCB and software.

<< Comment #1780 @ 19:21 CST, 13 December 2012 >>

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acid_reptile - Reply to #1779

don't get me wrong. i would buy the aurora right away. but i thought u are sending them out to beta testers and then decide, if its the actual end product, before we can order it.

<< Comment #1781 @ 19:28 CST, 13 December 2012 >>

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acid_reptile - Reply to #1780

thats beeing said, im still interested in aurora reviews, as im not quite sure if i wanted a G1 with smaller buttons.. i would still give it a try, but im interested in what other mx300,G1/3 ppl would say, after playing with it.

<< Comment #1777 @ 08:33 CST, 12 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (178.202.139.122)

honestly i hate the side buttons of the DA because my thumb basically always covers them and i accidently click them. dont know if this is just because i have very big hands but it definitely is an issue for me.

<< Comment #1782 @ 13:33 CST, 14 December 2012 >>

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By

Sens

Considering the DA2013 is shipping out across Europe in a few weeks, how close are you now to completion? The waiting game gets a tiny bit tougher with the competition, although... £65 for a mouse, thats pushing what I'd spend. My god. £65.. Ok. Take your time.

<< Comment #1783 @ 17:27 CST, 14 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1782

Really close now, the factory sent one of the finished samples out to me yesterday, so I should get it in the next few days. Its the mouse they use in development, so I can get it a little bit sooner than the beta testers mice (they will get them shortly after).

If its all good I'll tell them to do the hardware certification, which they said will take about a month, and then another month to make the final retail versions. So with any luck we're looking at about 2 months time.

During those 2 months, the mouse will be beta tested, so the firmware and software can be tweaked if necessary. The good thing is the certification and manufacturing is separate to the software and firmware, so both can be done at the same time.

From what I saw with my old sample, and my brief test of the software, it looked really good, so I don't think theres going to be any major delays. The only thing I hope is the certification goes well, but the mouse has been built to pass, with common components, so it should do pretty easily.

<< Comment #1785 @ 18:15 CST, 14 December 2012 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #1783

just don't fuck it up. remember the very first impression of your gaming gear will make it or break it.

you can't promise to fix shit later, it will already be OVER for you.

Do it properly son, if the product is that good, dem niggas you lost from waiting too long will still come back to you eventually.

<< Comment #1787 @ 18:35 CST, 14 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1785

I hear you loud and clear :) Sage advice :)

<< Comment #1784 @ 18:15 CST, 14 December 2012 >>

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By

pussuw

This looks really promising. I hope the days of waiting for a replacement for my MX300 are over.

I read through most of the thread and I have to compliment you bst ,for keeping to a simple design. There are no good ambidextrous mice out on the market atm. All of the available designs have flaws, most of them unbearable.

Even though this mouse has been in development for quite a while, don't rush it. If the mouse is perfect, you will have a huge customer base in hardcore gamers, who want a perfect mouse.

I have two questions:
1) can this mouse be pre-ordered?
2) how does one qualify for beta testing? or have the candidates already been selected..?

<< Comment #1786 @ 18:34 CST, 14 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1784

Thanks :)
Yeah, I'm not going to give anything the go-ahead until I'm satisfied its at a really high standard.

Also the sensor/firmware/software will be used in some other future mice, so its always going to be worked on to improve it.

Answers:
1) In Janurary, while its being beta tested, because by then I will have the final price and a better idea of the ETA
2) Sorry, the candidates were selected a long time ago

<< Comment #1788 @ 20:06 CST, 15 December 2012 >>

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By

KittenIgnition

i luv u

<< Comment #1790 @ 23:30 CST, 19 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1788

<3

<< Comment #1800 @ 03:00 CST, 21 December 2012 >>

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horf - Reply to #1790

Send that poor kitten a free mouse and mat :3

<< Comment #1789 @ 23:29 CST, 19 December 2012 >>

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»bst

Got a little preview of the Aurora tracking quality, I was using old drivers for this and I should be getting the new ones soon, so its not really an official tracking test but at least you can see its on the right... track.. :)
http://ninox.org/images/ninox_aurora_as_rp_all.png

Done some speed tests but, again, I'm just sharing it so you know where its at, I'm not so happy with 4000 DPI, but I guess it doesn't matter much. But apparently with new drivers its better, so will post an update soon.
400-1600 DPI = around 4.7m/s
3200: 3.3 m/s
4000: 2.5 m/s

I will post some photos soon. I know its a bit lame but I really love the lighting, its extremely accurate to what you choose.

I'm so scared of breaking this mouse atm, I broke my last one from messing around with the wrong drivers, so I'm waiting for the new ones now and back to using the velocity. I'll post more soon :)

Edit: got a crappy pic, you can see I'm trying out half glossy half rubber. Its a bit dirty because its was used a lot in development.
http://ninox.org/images/PC190211.png

Edit: this is all pretty much outdated now, just got the new drivers, will test properly later on though, I have to go to bed (been up all night :/). Got a quick pic of 4000 DPI though: http://ninox.org/images/nxa-4000.jpg its much nicer than before imo.

Edited by »bst at 03:59 CST, 20 December 2012

<< Comment #1791 @ 00:10 CST, 20 December 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1789

tracking looks pretty solid, what's the surface?

<< Comment #1792 @ 00:14 CST, 20 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1791

Tracking was done on the ninox mat: http://www.esreality.com/post/2359234/ninox-m...pid2362815

Tracking speed was done on a Talent, the Ninox mat sample is a bit small for it.

Edited by »bst at 00:14 CST, 20 December 2012

<< Comment #1793 @ 23:32 CST, 20 December 2012 >>

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Like it overall, lightweight is essential
Side buttons protrude in an odd way though, how do they feel when u actuate them? I like their location but the shape worries me. They remind me of the ones on cm spawn which were not ideal.

<< Comment #1794 @ 23:39 CST, 20 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1793

Thanks.

Hmm the side buttons don't protrude hardly at all, maybe the photo makes them look a bit strange. They are nothing like the spawn ones, I have one, I know what you mean :) I love the side buttons on this mouse, tbh.

Edit:

Should add, the side buttons don't rattle and aren't loose in any way, and when you press them they just click, theres no mushyness. The little indent between the two buttons is really good for telling which button you're about to click as well.

Edited by »bst at 23:43 CST, 20 December 2012

<< Comment #1795 @ 00:08 CST, 21 December 2012 >>

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»bst

Heres some enotus mouse tests for the Aurora with the new drivers:
http://ninox.org/images/aurora_1000_400.png
http://ninox.org/images/aurora_1000_800.png
http://ninox.org/images/aurora_1000_1600.png

3200 DPI and 4000 DPI is still on 2/ms, I don't know why but I will ask. I don't think anyone really minds that much though? Afterall 3200/4000 is high sens so doesn't really need to handle high speeds.

All tests were done on a QcK+

Some more details:
- Lift off distance is confirmed at just under 2mm
- Drivers operate very nicely and are fast, on board memory working fine as well

Some more tracking tests:
http://ninox.org/images/Aurora_500hz_400dpi.png
http://ninox.org/images/Aurora_500hz_800dpi.png
http://ninox.org/images/Aurora_500hz_1600dpi.png
http://ninox.org/images/Aurora_500hz_3200dpi.png
http://ninox.org/images/Aurora_500hz_4000dpi.png

Edited by »bst at 02:47 CST, 21 December 2012

<< Comment #1796 @ 01:02 CST, 21 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (114.32.179.131) - Reply to #1795

what about the lift-off distance? still ~2mm?

<< Comment #1797 @ 01:28 CST, 21 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1796

Oh yeah, forgot about that, yep, it seems to be exactly 2mm, it stops tracking a little under 2 CDs (tested on a black pad).

<< Comment #1798 @ 02:14 CST, 21 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (178.49.182.86) - Reply to #1795

Still Win XP, bst? Why?

<< Comment #1799 @ 02:34 CST, 21 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1798

I had to use another PC because my main one is playing up :(

<< Comment #1801 @ 08:49 CST, 21 December 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1799

When you say "drivers" you still mean "software" right? Its not runnig in the background or anything?

<< Comment #1802 @ 09:14 CST, 21 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1801

Yeah, it will stay in the system tray, but its not doing anything.its just there for convenience. It'll load up when you plug the mouse in or restart your PC. But if you right click on the icon and click exit, it'll turn off. The mouse just uses the normal windows drivers, you can see it in the Enotus tests, where it says "HID Compliant Mouse" (I had the software installed when I ran those tests).

On the to-do list is to add an option to disable starting with windows, and starting when you plug the mouse in.

<< Comment #1804 @ 11:17 CST, 21 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (81.56.47.123) - Reply to #1795

Do you have any explaination as of why does it performes better with the 800 CPI step broheim ?

<< Comment #1809 @ 02:04 CST, 22 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1804

Its just where enotus rounds to the closest 200 DPI step, so if 800 DPI is really 820, and 400 is really 410, then 400 would show a lower max speed, even if in the real world its the same. Its normal for sensors not to be exact with their DPI step (they're just a guide, its better to say 400 than 410). I'll do some tests to find out the exact DPI values soon.

<< Comment #1806 @ 11:17 CST, 21 December 2012 >>

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Deadeye*

BST when you do accel test do you any Mouse fix? What about "Enhance Pointer Precision"? Just double checking :)

<< Comment #1803 @ 09:42 CST, 21 December 2012 >>

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lemming#13

OK, that icon there is nice for easy access to all settings. I like that.

<< Comment #1805 @ 11:17 CST, 21 December 2012 >>

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Deadeye*

BST when you do accel test do you use Mouse fix or something similar? o just windows default and EPP Off?

<< Comment #1807 @ 17:58 CST, 21 December 2012 >>

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Deadeye* - Reply to #1805

Sorry for double posts :/

<< Comment #1808 @ 01:06 CST, 22 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1805

I tested in Quake Live with raw mouse input, so it bypasses windows settings like EPP. I tried slow and fast swipes.

<< Comment #1810 @ 13:48 CST, 22 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (94.168.116.151)

Ninox I'm begging you. Please make a version of the aurora that is about the size of the zowie mico. Us fingertips users need a flawless mouse that isn't a Razer Abyssus.

<< Comment #1811 @ 16:24 CST, 22 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.141) - Reply to #1810

The mice are pretty small. They are not as small as the Mico. I would say they are medium sized. The current PCB size could be put in a smaller shell with no side buttons.

I personally think both shells are to small for me and the scroll wheel looks to far back for my style. I am sure after I get one I will feel the same way about it.

<< Comment #1812 @ 16:32 CST, 22 December 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1810

the velocity seems smaller than the aurora

<< Comment #1813 @ 17:41 CST, 22 December 2012 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1812

it's gonna be the same shape afaik(velocity is without side buttons though)

<< Comment #1814 @ 03:13 CST, 23 December 2012 >>

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The location of the side buttons seem a lot further away from the top of the mouse compared to most. It almost right in the middle of the mouse. This may not be ideal for people with smaller hands as they reach further up so their thumb is further up as well. Can I ask how large are your hands (in cm) and how does the location of the side buttons feel to you?

<< Comment #1815 @ 16:12 CST, 23 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1814

I think they are very good for most people (average sized hands), and its quite a broad average, so unless someone's hands were extremely large or small, there should be no problems at all. But it is hard to tell from photos, a lot of times things feel completely different to how they look. I found that out a lot of times when trying samples. There are a lot of mice which look great until I held them, and vice versa. Heres some more posts about the side buttons:
http://www.esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gam...pid2337883
http://www.esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gam...pid2337736
http://www.esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gam...pid2357193
http://www.esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gam...pid2363230

<< Comment #1816 @ 10:16 CST, 24 December 2012 >>

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Rjven

Already mentionned that on OCN.net but a m_accel, a mousesenscap and an acceloffset through the drivers would be cool! :P

Edited by Rjven at 10:18 CST, 24 December 2012

<< Comment #1817 @ 11:32 CST, 24 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1816

I'm not sure how big of a job it'd be, because the mouse doesn't use drivers, its all hardware based, so if you wanted to keep your accel in the on-board memory, the whole way the accel works has to be hardware based.

I could do some extra program like moudrv, but then it doesn't work so well across all games, doesn't store in the memory, and isn't as intuitive to use.

I think I have figured out how it would work on a hardware level, but just for an example, here is one of the results I get:
800 DPI, accel 0.15, speed 200 IPS = 20,000 DPI

I don't really know how the mouse would behave at something like 20,000 DPI, or how it would be done in the MCU. I mean I don't know if it would work as well as software based accel or not.

If anyone knows, feel free to chime in :D

But I will definitely look into it, its just that its unlikely it'll be on the final version, it may have to be done via a software and firmware update later in 2013. Thats assuming it works well ofc!

<< Comment #1818 @ 11:37 CST, 24 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1817

Btw I got 20,000 DPI in that example by doing:

D= DPI
I = Inches per second
Cms = Counts per ms
A = Accel value
AD = AccelDPI

D * I / 1000 = Cms

800 * 200 / 1000 = 160 counts / ms

D + (D * Cms * A) = AD

800 + (800 * 160 * 0.15) = 20000

Thats just for normal linear accel, it doesn't have any sens cap or accel offset in it.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree with that method, though Oo I haven't really looked into it that much yet.

Edit:
Here is a graphical representation which shows the different results depending on the counts per ms

Edited by »bst at 11:49 CST, 24 December 2012

<< Comment #1819 @ 11:52 CST, 24 December 2012 >>

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Rjven - Reply to #1817

Yeah, I didn't want to rush you! But that would be really nice hehe.
I gave moudrv a look, but there's no senscap :(

edit: thanks for the explanation!

Edited by Rjven at 11:53 CST, 24 December 2012

<< Comment #1820 @ 00:19 CST, 25 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (69.151.197.26)

If it's not too late and won't delay the release, could you add which dpis to cycle through in the software, i.e., if I don't ever plan to use 4000 dpi or 3200, could you make the software allow me to only cycle through 400, 800, and 1600 when the dpi button is pressed?

<< Comment #1821 @ 01:16 CST, 25 December 2012 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1820

Pretty sure BST mentioned that's already in.

<< Comment #1822 @ 05:08 CST, 25 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1820

Already done :)

http://www.esreality.com/files/placeimages/20..._modes.jpg

<< Comment #1824 @ 04:21 CST, 26 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (98.201.120.173) - Reply to #1822

Great, could you also make sure that you can bind control to a side button and have it hold until release for games like StarCraft II, e.g. if I want to hit the side mouse button and the 1 key simultaneously on the keyboard to set a hotkey. Some mice won't allow that, e.g., the CM Storm Spawn.

<< Comment #1826 @ 11:04 CST, 26 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1824

You can :)

<< Comment #1823 @ 14:41 CST, 25 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (212.175.132.126)

Hi bst.

This one seems like the perfect mouse i've been looking for. I will order for sure and maybe a few.

Can you make sure you can ship this to Turkey when available? It would be shame if i couldnt get my hands on one of these. (As some sellers don't ship to my country.) And would appreciate not expensive shipping costs too^^.

Regards.

<< Comment #1830 @ 16:42 CST, 26 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1823

Are you happy with ordering from Amazon? It'd be shipped from Germany. I mean you'd buy it on the Ninox shop but Amazon are the ones who ship it and hold the stock. I think you can use the super saver option so it shouldn't be too expensive.

<< Comment #1834 @ 04:18 CST, 27 December 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1830

Shipping via Amazon-DE. Could not be better <3

<< Comment #1825 @ 10:36 CST, 26 December 2012 >>

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megaman3

here's a question that probably has not been asked 10 times, is related to the product and company (shipping costs aren't) and is almost good:

why the 2 mice have different sensors if the first one is supposedly flawless?

<< Comment #1827 @ 11:57 CST, 26 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1825

The A3050 is flawless at 500 DPI, but tracking isn't as good at 1000+ DPI. But to be fair, I was being way too picky about it, its still extremely good. The bottom line is I didn't expect the A3090 to take as long as it has, so at the time I thought it was worth the small improvements. The factory had already worked on the A3050 so they had a base to work from, but with the A3090 its completely new to them, but they didn't tell me ANY of that until things started taking time. Its really annoying :p

<< Comment #1828 @ 12:09 CST, 26 December 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1827

So far the 3090 (sensor used on the aurora, 5 buttons, to be released in a couple of months) is a pseudo flawless sensor that's better than the 3050 (velocity sensor, 3 buttons, essentially a wmo v2 with a cooller sticker, to be released about 10 years after the aurora).

Question is if after some testing time the 3050 (velocity) doesn't turn to be as good as the 3090 (aurora) then why use the 3050 on the upcoming velocity instead of the "more flawless" 3090. Not only it's the most obvious thing ever to use the best sensor but also would make things simpler too (one sensor for them all) and the velocity won't be on the market before the aurora so there's time to make the call.

This is ofc assuming sensor pricing is similar and there are no contractual obligations yet (like having 5000 3050 sensors already laying around your house).

Edited by megaman3 at 12:17 CST, 26 December 2012

<< Comment #1829 @ 16:38 CST, 26 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1828

tbh you are right, it is easier to do this:

Aurora with 6 buttons and A3090
Aurora with 4 buttons and A3090 (maybe give it a different name)

Because two different shells and sensors mean two minimum order quantites, but I could probably combine those two above into one MOQ, so in the end it works out a smaller investment. Also certification, firmware, etc, are all combined into the same investment. I could do something like 66% 6 button and 33% 4 button.

I have been thinking about it :)

I do really like the Velocity shell with the A3050 though, because the price can be really low, but its still an excellent sensor. I like that its kind of the spirit of the WMO, great value for money (if you're a low senser.

<< Comment #1831 @ 17:06 CST, 26 December 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1829

As I wrote one year ago, what I want on a perfect mouse is essentially a mouse for quake since those are just well made office mice really, with their pros (comfortable 24/7) and cons (cheap quality), but with as better quality as possible (so no cons).

These are the details:
- "office looks" (not razer like)
- smaller and that weighs less than a wmo but not a laptop mouse. Lets say in between it and an abyssus (no huge curvature etc.),
- And here's the problem: I like flat sides (I have never ever liked the ime1.1, plus it weighs too much), no side buttons if possible and a "quality" look and feel.

With that said ("quake mouse") and considering that I want the top of the line, no "value for money" but just the best, should I get the aurora (5 buttons) or the velocity (3 buttons, probably the world will end before it is released)? Which one comes with the cooller sticker and p0rt sign of approval?

Edited by megaman3 at 17:18 CST, 26 December 2012

<< Comment #1832 @ 18:24 CST, 26 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1831

You'd probably prefer one of the velocity shells (flatter sides and lower profile), but I doubt by much because they're so similar, and I don't think the sensor would be too important to you, if you don't want to use more than 500 DPI. They are both so similar at low DPI, same LOD and max speeds, that I think it'd be hard to tell any difference at all.

Saying that, a 4 button Aurora is still very close to what you want, the sides taper in at the bottom of the mouse (like \_/), but not in a big way, they are almost flat. Overall there isn't a big difference between them.

Heres some comparison photos:
http://ninox.org/images/va/

http://erasem.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=2

Edited by »bst at 18:33 CST, 26 December 2012

<< Comment #1837 @ 06:20 CST, 27 December 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1832

I prefer using 800dpi because 400 is so 1999s.

<< Comment #1861 @ 17:58 CST, 29 December 2012 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #1837

Is there any reason to use 800 vs 400 if you play at 1280x960 res

<< Comment #1862 @ 18:10 CST, 29 December 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1861

400 is awful in desktop at 1990s resolutions.

<< Comment #1865 @ 18:52 CST, 29 December 2012 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #1862

But talking about Quake wise only

<< Comment #1875 @ 20:16 CST, 30 December 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1865

top players (and me) used or use 400 and it works. Thing is I like to keep settings simple so it has to be only one, and my whole gaming experience is with 400 and 800dpi.

the only thing I never ever change on "competitive" pc fps games is resolution in multiplayer (800x600). That simply cannot be touched.

<< Comment #1878 @ 21:44 CST, 30 December 2012 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #1875

lol, it's impossible for me to play with 800x600, I had to resort to 1280x960 (highest I could for 4:3 experience). I HATE how the pixels look "smoothed" in LCDs. I miss 800x600 on my 140hz samsung CRT so bad but thats life..

<< Comment #1859 @ 17:43 CST, 29 December 2012 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #1828

(velocity sensor, 3 buttons, essentially a wmo v2 with a cooller sticker, to be released about 10 years after the aurora).

would buy.

<< Comment #1833 @ 18:59 CST, 26 December 2012 >>

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nogaydar

"pseudo flawless "? "more flawless"?

<< Comment #1835 @ 04:26 CST, 27 December 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1833

Nothing in this world is perfect when it comes to technology. Depending on who you ask there will always be something "wrong" with a give product. If there was a sensor that tracked perfectly on all surfaces, on all dpi levels there would be no more market for bst ;)

Well, until Razer would get their dirty little hands on the sensor and ruin it for everyone that is hehe.

<< Comment #1836 @ 06:13 CST, 27 December 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1833

^ In other words technically there can't be a "perfect" optical or laser mouse sensor, and performance differs with each dpi setting (so some mice perform better at a specific dpi), mousepad, etc. Idea is having a big enough threshold that players can't reach the point when there's bad tracking, and at least one or two dpi in which tracking (etc.) is superb.

Have you noticed there are like at most 5 mice that are "flawless" (they aren't) but most of the rest are awful, particularly gaming mice?

Edited by megaman3 at 06:19 CST, 27 December 2012

<< Comment #1838 @ 06:39 CST, 27 December 2012 >>

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nogaydar - Reply to #1836

Thank you very much for both answers. That makes me have a couple more questions. Which is the perfect traking speed for the aurora? and which dpi should give the best result? I have read that avago sugests about 1800-2000 dpi for the 3090 or something like that, but the maximun speed its supposed to be around 400-800dpi. One last question. What are the natural dpi steps or settings (the ones that the 3090 with normal lenses is designed for)?

I know, many questions, probably some of them are based in some kind of incomplete information or understanding and maybe some of them can not be answered at this point, but if you could answer just one I would be very grateful. Thank you again nYshak and megaman3.

Edited by nogaydar at 06:42 CST, 27 December 2012

<< Comment #1839 @ 07:16 CST, 27 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1838

The highest tracking speed so far is 200 IPS (5.1 meters/s), at 800 DPI and below. 800 DPI and below is the best. The A3090 is designed with the native DPI steps of 800/1600/3200/4000. Earlier A3090 sensors are 1800 and 3500, but they are being phased out now.

Edited by »bst at 07:17 CST, 27 December 2012

<< Comment #1842 @ 16:54 CST, 27 December 2012 >>

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nogaydar - Reply to #1839

thank you!

<< Comment #1841 @ 16:01 CST, 27 December 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1836

Yep noticed that, and I think many on ESR have too. It's not surprising though is it? I mean, for a couple of years now, this industry has deverted from "perfecting" their product to marketing unnessecary things as the "must haves". 8000 DPI anyone? Who cares if your product can't manage decent speeds at 1000 DPI even as long as all the sheep out there go "ooohhhh MOAR DPI!!!!".

<< Comment #1840 @ 12:51 CST, 27 December 2012 >>

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Glyde

I like the idea of having an optional m_accel setting in the driver, because there are many games that doesn't have option for it. Even in windows a bit acceleration would be nice imo, "enhance pointer precision" sucks tho.

Anyway the Aurora looks promising, I'm looking forward to get my hand on it (RIP WMO). You're doing great job dude, keep it up.

<< Comment #1843 @ 18:24 CST, 27 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.78) - Reply to #1840

Why would you need acceleration with a 800+ CPI mouse that can do over 3m/s and has higher G capabilities?

<< Comment #1844 @ 21:09 CST, 27 December 2012 >>

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Glyde - Reply to #1843

Maybe because I need precision at high range, while being able to make quick turns? I use acceleration because it's my personal preference, not because of any hardware limitation. Having more options are always better. it's pointless to argue about it. Many of us would like this option I'm sure.

<< Comment #1845 @ 01:03 CST, 28 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.76) - Reply to #1844

I'm sure most people looking at this mouse are no looking for acceleration of any type. Therefore on the bottom of the list if it was going to be done. Only useful for 6 people in the entire word.

<< Comment #1849 @ 11:27 CST, 28 December 2012 >>

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zealot - Reply to #1845

I'm not sure if you're being serious, but accel is used by a lot more quakers than ...6.

<< Comment #1853 @ 04:55 CST, 29 December 2012 >>

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Lam ' - Reply to #1849

But using Quake's built-in settings.

Assuming you're an accel user: will you switch it off in QL and instead try to replicate in mouse driver settings?

The parent may be right: 6 people in the world are looking forward to _that_ ;)

<< Comment #1857 @ 15:07 CST, 29 December 2012 >>

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zealot - Reply to #1853

na, not in drivers, but if there would be a way to do it on the hardware level (which i thought is what these posts were about) that would be quite awesome. having my exact quake settings for desktop and any other game = win.

<< Comment #1883 @ 07:44 CST, 31 December 2012 >>

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iim - Reply to #1857

That's exactly what puts me off using accel, I play more than just QL and not every game can replicate the same settings (in fact fairly few). If customisable accel could be done in hardware, it'd be an amazing mouse.

<< Comment #1846 @ 08:28 CST, 28 December 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1844

Well, many options are not always better. In fact, more ofte than not more options can mean less focus on all of them and the result is a mediocre product that tries to accomplish everything and achieves nothing.

<< Comment #1851 @ 11:57 CST, 28 December 2012 >>

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Glyde - Reply to #1846

I take your point, but as bst mentioned above, he'd probably make this work with a software or firmware update, after releasing the product. And I meant from a user's perspective, it's better to have more customizability.

<< Comment #1852 @ 13:35 CST, 28 December 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1851

If that was true we'd all buy this:

http://www.notebooksbilliger.de/madcatz+cybor...e157b4f1a8

;)

I know what you mean though. Nothing wrong with a firmware update as long as it won't break anything and is reversible.

<< Comment #1847 @ 10:38 CST, 28 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1840

Thanks :)
About the m_accel: http://www.esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gam...pid2364292

For now, the best option is this: http://www.esreality.com/post/2299662/help-mo...pid2299728

You can use it with the Aurora.

<< Comment #1850 @ 11:57 CST, 28 December 2012 >>

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Deadeye* - Reply to #1847

Its not bad, but i'm guessing it will not work with Win8 and support i think it's already stooped for it

<< Comment #1848 @ 10:41 CST, 28 December 2012 >>

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By

Deadeye*

Come on BST release the mouse, stop torturing us :D

<< Comment #1854 @ 05:25 CST, 29 December 2012 >>

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By

Nzr0 '

This could've been answered already, but - what's the situation with the feet? Are they teflon out of the box? Do you share them with another mouse so you can get replacements from corepad and hyperglide?

<< Comment #1855 @ 08:10 CST, 29 December 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1854

Also is Puretrak still your supplier?

<< Comment #1856 @ 13:17 CST, 29 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1854

Puretrak are developing them, I'll be getting some samples in the new year. They've been working on rounding the edges of them. They are 1mm thick PTFE (aka teflon).

I think the closest size and shape feet on other mice is probably the IE4.0, but you could use any feet if you cut the ridges away on the bottom of the mouse, they don't really need them anyway. It takes less than 5 mins to shave them off with a sharp razor. But I think unless you really love some other feet, the Puretrak ones should be perfectly fine.

<< Comment #1858 @ 17:22 CST, 29 December 2012 >>

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Nzr0 ' - Reply to #1856

Stock up on some feet anyway. Some people are reluctant when it comes to DIY. Best case scenario is puretrak starts selling them because the mouse gets popular.

Edited by Nzr0 at 18:58 CST, 29 December 2012

<< Comment #1863 @ 18:41 CST, 29 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1858

Yeah, I have ordered retail packs of the feet too :)

<< Comment #1860 @ 17:46 CST, 29 December 2012 >>

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By

nemecel

So if you play at 4:3 resolutions, 1280x960 for example being the best resolution you can get in 4:3 format in QL for a 2233rz, and comming from a WMO@500hz, what can I exactly expect to be better? (with whatever mouse is shape wise the most similar to the WMO, I always forget if this is the Ninox or Aurora).

Edited by nemecel at 17:47 CST, 29 December 2012

<< Comment #1864 @ 18:46 CST, 29 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1860

Well the company name is Ninox, and the mouse coming out first is called Aurora.

Whats better, well, if you prefer the shape, then that. But objectively, its got a higher tracking speed than a WMO, and its easier to set the USB hz, doesn't have a scroll wheel bug, can do higher DPI, its a bit lighter, better quality switches, teflon feet, has 3 extra buttons, more flexible cord, etc. Its no worse than a WMO on anything (unless you hate the shape), but adds quite a few features.

Edited by »bst at 18:55 CST, 29 December 2012

10%

<< Comment #1867 @ 19:34 CST, 29 December 2012 >>

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Anonymous (82.25.89.208) - Reply to #1864

A bit lighter as in hardly noticeable?

<< Comment #1868 @ 01:36 CST, 30 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1867

Well, its about 10-15g lighter, so you can notice it, but not in a huge way.

<< Comment #1869 @ 05:42 CST, 30 December 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1868

For products that weigh around 100gr on average, 10-15gr less is a lot ;)

<< Comment #1876 @ 20:17 CST, 30 December 2012 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1867

having a better cable alone should make it noticeable, with the same mouse weight.

<< Comment #1866 @ 19:04 CST, 29 December 2012 >>

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By

generic nickname

stop being so nice, you only make people even more eager to give you money

release the goddamn thing already !

<< Comment #1870 @ 06:18 CST, 30 December 2012 >>

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By

Deadeye*

BST can i pay you just to get the beta sample? :D

<< Comment #1871 @ 06:20 CST, 30 December 2012 >>

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By

end0rphine - Reply to #1870

I'll pay too.

<< Comment #1872 @ 08:02 CST, 30 December 2012 >>

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By

Deadeye* - Reply to #1870

But seriously is it posible?

<< Comment #1873 @ 13:45 CST, 30 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1870

I sent emails out to the beta testers, to confirm their address and their interest, but some haven't replied yet. So maybe there will be some free spaces. I'll send them another email, if they don't reply in a week then I'll be looking for new testers.

Maybe I will put two up for auction, seems like a fair way to do it, gives people time to see it. Probably not what you want to hear though :/ Not sure about it atm though, have to think about it.

<< Comment #1877 @ 20:57 CST, 30 December 2012 >>

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croaton - Reply to #1873

Auction them off!

Oh god please do it. I'll pay way too much money,

<< Comment #1880 @ 03:07 CST, 31 December 2012 >>

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toggl - Reply to #1873

So glad I read this! I had forgotten to check that email address, but I have since replied with address, etc.

Thanks for the mouse, and thanks again for the next one!

<< Comment #1881 @ 03:54 CST, 31 December 2012 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1873

Idk. You'd want good feedback from beta testers. Just because someone is able to win the auction with $$$ does not mean he knows how to test well. In fact, if I spent money on the beta sample I'd be less inclined to test and give feedback. After all that's time and effort spent for something I *bougt* already...

<< Comment #1882 @ 04:12 CST, 31 December 2012 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1881

idd. Also a beta test sample isn't as good as a final product, maybe it has some collector value, but if there are improvements to the final version, you'd miss out, and also the process of making them isn't as good, because its a small amount they are more prone to all sorts of little problems, for various reasons (the factory is set up to make in bulk (all the machinery works best for bulk orders), and the suppliers are used to supplying in bulk (eg if you order 50 omrons you can't make the same kind of demands of consistency as when you order a few thousand). Also the sample room is usually supervised trainees, because they want the experienced people on the main production, also the QC isn't the same, etc etc etc ;D ).

Edited by »bst at 04:21 CST, 31 December 2012

<< Comment #1897 @ 21:09 CST, 2 January 2013 >>

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oneroomdisco - Reply to #1873

I replied back to you about an address change two months ago but no reply. where can i send an updated address?

<< Comment #1898 @ 23:13 CST, 2 January 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1897

IM'd :)

<< Comment #1874 @ 17:59 CST, 30 December 2012 >>

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By

Deadeye*

Does any one have size comparison with Zowie EC2?

<< Comment #1879 @ 02:34 CST, 31 December 2012 >>

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Tobbe

I want it in retail.. ...have some pity! XD

Edited by Tobbe at 02:35 CST, 31 December 2012

<< Comment #1884 @ 12:01 CST, 1 January 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (78.28.19.169)

Could someone tell me if ADNS-3050 sensor has prediction??
What's the difference between ADNS-3050/ADNS-3090?

<< Comment #1885 @ 12:33 CST, 1 January 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1884

3050 doesn't have prediction, the 3090 has the option of on or off. When the 3090 is off, it has a little less than the 3050.

The 3090 is technically better than the 3050 in pretty much every way, but in some cases its an even match, like at low DPI (around 500), its really hard to tell much difference at all, as long as the related hardware and firmware is good.

<< Comment #1886 @ 15:03 CST, 1 January 2013 >>

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Anonymous (78.28.19.169) - Reply to #1885

Thanks for yours answer. Hmm i dont care about dpi.
I have been useing ime 3.0, ofc i had other mices like deathadder 1800dpi but im always use 400dpi and i use to it. I heard a lot of positive opinions about 3090, but i 1st time see 3050 so i try to search best cons with will be good for me :)
Sorry for my english because i'm thinking i have done some mistakes.

<< Comment #1889 @ 04:09 CST, 2 January 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1886

The main thing to remember is the sensor model can tell you how good a mouse could be, but doesn't really tell you how good a mouse really is. So you have to look at good reviews, which test LOD, max speed, and tracking quality, to know if it works really well.

<< Comment #1891 @ 14:48 CST, 2 January 2013 >>

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Anonymous (78.28.19.169) - Reply to #1889

That's true i belive thats your mouse will be the best :D

<< Comment #1887 @ 03:33 CST, 2 January 2013 >>

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Anonymous (178.49.182.86)

Bst, any chances you could supply some replacement mouse cables? I'd like to get some. The only problem i see from photos is that Aurora/Velocity cables are 4 pinned, while most mice use 5 pinned cables.

<< Comment #1888 @ 04:03 CST, 2 January 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1887

Its a hard question to answer atm (I know it doesn't seem like a hard question ;)). But I know ppl want it, so I won't forget.

<< Comment #1890 @ 05:12 CST, 2 January 2013 >>

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GreenEnemy - Reply to #1888

Maybe give us more cables in a box, so anyone could chose according to his preference.
I personally like very thin cords and some people like thick braided and durable ones.

If not, then maybe in your next designs this could be done without opening the mouse, just like some wireless mice have (g700,sidewinder x8 etc). This could be new feature like adjustable weights and i believe this kind of things sell.

<< Comment #1892 @ 15:04 CST, 2 January 2013 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1890

agreed, i also like superthin plastic cables like 3+ years old razer mice had(which isn't really the case with this mouse), but some ppl like thicker rubber cables(cause rubber got no 'memory')

<< Comment #1893 @ 15:45 CST, 2 January 2013 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1892

While I can understand the urge to release the world's greatest toolbox, I can't help but fear that this would end in a worse product. Anything you can replace easily (note: without a srewdriver) must come with a connection. Connections rattle. The break easily. Look at Logitechs G9 effort. Yes you can change the shell of it. But after some months of intense use it starts to loosen and feels cheap. I think trying to please everyone with one mouse is misguided anyway. That's why we have palm-grip vs. claw-grip mice. Different audience, different products.

Transformers are for (bad) movies.

:)

<< Comment #1894 @ 16:03 CST, 2 January 2013 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1893

95% of mice got connectors to attach the cables, and they never break. I'm not asking for the connector a-la razer wireless mice have, just include 2 cables - 1 being as thin and light as possible and one rubber one like some people prefer or an ability to customize your mouse while buying .Since there's also a possibility of glossy version, an option to choose cable and glossy/nonglossy shell would be good

<< Comment #1895 @ 16:21 CST, 2 January 2013 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1894

Like I said, as long as you'd need a screwdriver to change the parts - fine. Everything else is rubbish.

<< Comment #1896 @ 18:32 CST, 2 January 2013 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #1895

of course, on ninox you don't even need to care about mousefeet when disassembling it unlike on most modern mice where screws are under the feet

<< Comment #1899 @ 00:02 CST, 3 January 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.78) - Reply to #1894

That could be just an after market purchase. This kind of feature would be useful to maybe six people on Earth; like mouse acceleration done by the drivers.

The only gimmicky feature that is useful for many people is a CPI button next to the mouse wheel.

<< Comment #1900 @ 10:38 CST, 4 January 2013 >>

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Anonymous (195.23.5.93)

how long before i can spend my money on this?

i just realized there's some beta testing going on. is it too late to join?

btw, i've been dreaming for an mx300 like mouse with side buttons for about 10 years. it seems to me that aurora might just be that! awesome!!

<< Comment #1903 @ 18:22 CST, 4 January 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1900

About 2 months time at least.

Its really too late to join the beta test. Its pretty much full, and theres hundreds of applications for it in my inbox for it.

Glad you like the mouse :)

<< Comment #1953 @ 04:02 CST, 25 January 2013 >>

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cprossu - Reply to #1903

Well I am glad I found the answer I was looking for, even if it's not what I wanted to hear.

Some great content here, loved seeing how it's evolved over the time that you initially started working on prototypes!

Keep up the good work, and I know as a low resolution gamer, the weak point for me has been where the mouse cord enters the mouse. I seem to get ~3 years on the cords they give with the original WMO's, but due to thinner cable I've killed 2 G400's (the last one in under 4 months). You guys can probably make a test which flexes this area at a higher speed than normal to replicate the kind of wear that place would see in normal gaming use over say 1-3 years.

Is your mouse going to be user serviceable without removing the glide pads or model label? I couldn't really tell from the internals shots I've seen thus far...

Although I hope the cable you chose is bulletproof more or less, I'd happily pay extra just to have another mouse cord or two in the box ready for anything that might happen down the line.

<< Comment #2019 @ 02:07 CST, 7 March 2013 >>

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filo - Reply to #1903

... its 2 months later. :)

<< Comment #1901 @ 12:20 CST, 4 January 2013 >>

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metalboy

I'm a little bit lost, i have several posts but tell me :

if i'm a user of mouse optical blue MS because of the flawless captor and because of its weight , should i be interested by one of the ninox mouses ?

<< Comment #1902 @ 18:17 CST, 4 January 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1901

It sounds to me like you should... :)

<< Comment #1924 @ 13:18 CST, 10 January 2013 >>

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metalboy - Reply to #1902

which model ?

<< Comment #1904 @ 19:10 CST, 4 January 2013 >>

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gotrandom

I'm from the US and I can not wait to get my hands on one of these! You mentioned at least 2 more months before release, how much later than that for USA release do you think?

I ask because I already know from the images/specs that this is the mouse for me, I always wanted an updated diamondback/mx300 at least something with the same shape with better button placement.

THIS MOUSE LOOKS LIKE MY ANSWER I HAVE BEEN DREAMING OF!

Seriously though, thank you for listening to everyone here and working your hardest at making us "the mouse".

Edited by gotrandom at 00:52 CST, 5 January 2013

<< Comment #1907 @ 11:32 CST, 5 January 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1904

Thanks, I'm glad you like it :)

Its being released in the US/Europe/UK at the same time, but any of these countries might have a small unforeseen delay, eg customs or shipping delay, but it wouldn't be a large amount of time.

<< Comment #1905 @ 10:06 CST, 5 January 2013 >>

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Anonymous (70.51.190.117)

Any chance of having a version (I'm interested in the Aurora) without the rubber coating? I've to see a rubber coated mouse that didn't wear out awfully (I think it's impossible for it not to wear out). The best ones lasted about three years for me. It's annoying because the mouse works perfectly still but looks pretty disgusting.

Fine textured plastic like logitech does on the main body of some of their mice would be awesome (g500, g600). Even glossy would be better in my opinion.

Looks to be an awesome product can't wait for it to come out!

<< Comment #1906 @ 10:43 CST, 5 January 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1905

There will be a glossy version, but its paint. Its really nice but I don't know if it will wear any better than the rubber version. Having said that, I've used one of these shells for a year with the rubber coating, and it hasn't worn away at all, still looks like new.

The sides, where you put your thumb etc, is usually where rubber wears away, because its usually under more pressure there, but on the Aurora it has grainy plastic there instead. So for the most part I think its ok.

I don't have much say over this area atm. If I get a chance to make a new shell, then I will be able to do whatever people like :)

<< Comment #1908 @ 14:32 CST, 5 January 2013 >>

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lapoune - Reply to #1906

I see thanks for the response. It's not a big problem I'll buy it anyway haha

<< Comment #1909 @ 14:51 CST, 5 January 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1908

Thanks :)

<< Comment #1910 @ 18:17 CST, 5 January 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (79.196.132.195)

when the mouse is released? can not wait.need new mouse

<< Comment #1911 @ 06:00 CST, 6 January 2013 >>

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By

lemming#13 - Reply to #1910

Q1-Q2 2013.

<< Comment #1914 @ 12:32 CST, 6 January 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1911

Yes, thats a good way to put it :)

<< Comment #1912 @ 10:52 CST, 6 January 2013 >>

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Dippa

Is there any way to get an e-mail or Skype contact or something? I'd like to write a story on the Ninox and it's development, if that's cool.

<< Comment #1913 @ 12:32 CST, 6 January 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1912

IM'd =)

<< Comment #1915 @ 18:26 CST, 6 January 2013 >>

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pierow

Can someone with the mouse comment on the scroll wheel? I like the scroll wheel on the deathadder because it has very little resistance and can register every scroll when spun fast so it is great for games with bunnyhopping or for people like myself that are used to those games and just use the scroll wheel for jumping in ql. I've always found this type of scroll wheel the best for general web browsing too.

<< Comment #1916 @ 05:34 CST, 7 January 2013 >>

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Anonymous (195.148.33.13)

I have a few questions. I hope you don't mind answering as I've read most of the commenst and didn't find answers.
1. How is the release going to be like? Is it going to be global or do I have to order it from Ninox straight from UK? And yes I am going to order if it it costs 50€ max.
2. On what mousepad it is most accurate on?

bst I love you <3

<< Comment #1917 @ 05:53 CST, 7 January 2013 >>

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zealot - Reply to #1916

no, you did not.

http://www.esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gam...pid2368714
http://www.esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gam...pid2210401
etc.

ctrl+f 'shipping' ctrl+f 'mousepad'?

<< Comment #1918 @ 10:42 CST, 7 January 2013 >>

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kryze

Ninox FTW!

<< Comment #1919 @ 19:16 CST, 8 January 2013 >>

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gotrandom

I am just now realizing, this is very similarly specced to the Roccat Savu just different shape, better build quality? (Hopefully) right?

<< Comment #1920 @ 02:46 CST, 9 January 2013 >>

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nogaydar - Reply to #1919

I suppose there are more differences, but for example the maximum perfect tracking speed in the savu is just 60inches per second, the aurora is announcing 200. For the people with low sensitivities that's huge. And the savu is not in the list of mouses with flawless sensors, I hope the aurora will.

There are other things, the aurora would weight less, 65g instead of 90g, and the cable is supposed to be more flexible, but those things are probably more of a matter of taste. Anyway I like light mouses, nowadays almost every mouse are very heavy.

Edited by nogaydar at 02:53 CST, 9 January 2013

<< Comment #1921 @ 14:45 CST, 9 January 2013 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1920

For low-sense a lighter mouse is always better.

<< Comment #1922 @ 15:14 CST, 9 January 2013 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #1920

60 IPS is an official specification provided by sensor manufacturer. The Savu as well as many mice well over exceed this base.

IPS speed is heavily reliant on surface. Even BST's mouse will not be able to track at claimed speeds on every surface it comes across. Hence why many brands these days have an "up to" claim.

Please dont take the "flawless sensor list" as fact. There's way too much thats simply misunderstood by gamers these days. Subjective faults, etc..

Edited by Skylit at 15:24 CST, 9 January 2013

<< Comment #1923 @ 00:57 CST, 10 January 2013 >>

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gotrandom - Reply to #1922

Glad to see that it's lighter, as far as the 60 inches savu tests (most often) higher than that. I do not have one personally (I'm using my Abyssus till this comes out lucked out and got a non-jitter one even though I got it rather early in it's development).

I currently have an 18" 360 so I have to be able to move my mouse fast and it being that light will help quite a bit. I believe that is even slightly lighter than my abyssus, I am very excited!

<< Comment #1925 @ 09:46 CST, 11 January 2013 >>

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croaton

Hi there! Another criteria that is often overlooked by other manufacturers.

Weight distribution should be uniform. Or balanced around where you grip with the fingers not on M1/M2.

Basically, the mouse should stay straight when lifted

<< Comment #1926 @ 03:41 CST, 12 January 2013 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #1925

Yes center, but I also think it's less of a problem with light gripers. I never used weights so I taped 28gr at the back.. quite the annoying fat ass. XD

<< Comment #1927 @ 19:38 CST, 12 January 2013 >>

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gotrandom

I'm a partner in an up and coming IT company out of New Jersey and one of our focuses and passions are enthusiast PCs. I can't wait to get my hands on an Aurora to test this thing out and maybe in future supply these with our gaming/enthusiast rigs that we build. I know you mentioned release is Earlish 2013 and I'm very excited to see what this mouse can do.

Would be awesome to be able to supply my customers with a great mouse that seems to have a perfect balance of FPS and RTS use.
I'm also excited to get one of these for myself; small mice are great for Photoshop work, and I used to be deep into E-Sports back in the earlier days of Counter-Strike 1.6 with my trusty MS 1.1 then later the Razer DiamondBack. (probably my favorite mouse and still to this day probably the most well built Razer product).

Seeing that this mouse pairs so well with the puretrak talent is great to hear as well as I am currently using that pad and also hope to be able to supply customers with their Pads/Mousefeet. (Which I have emailed them about already).

Thanks for working on this project. I'll be watching this forum a lot.

<< Comment #1928 @ 00:07 CST, 13 January 2013 >>

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Anonymous (69.81.52.122)

Really can't wait for this mouse, my MX518 is starting to hurt my hand so I'm holding out for this as a replacement.

<< Comment #1929 @ 05:45 CST, 13 January 2013 >>

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lemming#13

If this mouse will deliver as promised and seeing that this thread has close to 2000 posts already, I wonder if you really could put an "ESR approved" sticker on the box somehow. That would not boost sales I think, but still it would be awesome...

<< Comment #1930 @ 09:14 CST, 13 January 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1929

This is not the only site in which bst asked input.

<< Comment #1931 @ 09:23 CST, 13 January 2013 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1930

Sure, but this is THE site with the most bitchy bunch of "pros" who all know best. This is where products from razer and steel are slapped around the most. So a sticker saying "ESR approved WMO replacement" would just be hilarious to see :)

<< Comment #1932 @ 09:26 CST, 13 January 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1931

The Cooller seal of approval.

<< Comment #1940 @ 13:55 CST, 14 January 2013 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #1932

No, I don't want the world to end. Which clearly is what would happen. No no, we can't have that.

<< Comment #1934 @ 19:42 CST, 13 January 2013 >>

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Ffleri - Reply to #1929

yeah, would be cool. but nothing more, just cool ;)

<< Comment #1933 @ 19:24 CST, 13 January 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (124.169.225.219)

C'mon this has taken long enough!

<< Comment #1935 @ 00:07 CST, 14 January 2013 >>

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croaton - Reply to #1933

No it hasn't, because it isn't out yet.

<< Comment #1936 @ 05:52 CST, 14 January 2013 >>

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By

bst! How is the actuation (mouse1 mouse2) compared to, let's say, an Abyssus?

Abyssus requires very little force and has a short travel distance, which I like. Is it anything like it? (Omron switches alone aren't enough, the shell/buttons have a huge impact on the actuation).

Thanks

<< Comment #1937 @ 06:15 CST, 14 January 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #1936

I heard it's alittle softer than the zowie am. So working from the other side of the force actuation spectrum.

Edited by end0rphine at 06:15 CST, 14 January 2013

<< Comment #1938 @ 06:47 CST, 14 January 2013 >>

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Anonymous (88.168.207.34) - Reply to #1937

Only a little softer? Doesn't the AM use Huano switches (aka the hardest switches known to mankind)?

<< Comment #1939 @ 10:04 CST, 14 January 2013 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #1938

Probably hardest switch known to a general consumer... Far from hardest in terms of what the market offers.

I have 150g omron D2F's. They shit on Zowies Huano model in terms of stiffness. Granted it would be silly to use these in mice. ^^

Edited by Skylit at 10:10 CST, 14 January 2013

<< Comment #1950 @ 01:03 CST, 22 January 2013 >>

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Anonymous (88.168.207.34) - Reply to #1939

Yeah I was mostly kidding when I said that. I never owned an AM, only a Mico. Could you compare the actuation force and distance with any of the following mice: Mico/Spawn/Abyssus/Kova/Kinzu v2?

Thanks.

<< Comment #1941 @ 08:08 CST, 16 January 2013 >>

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Anonymous (58.7.181.244)

What is the ETA on this? I'm dying for this mouse...

<< Comment #1942 @ 03:09 CST, 18 January 2013 >>

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Sopsy

bst, have you planned anything special for the release like a giveaway of one retail mouse or a beta mouse? Also are you going to give some mice for professional reviewers?

<< Comment #1943 @ 03:14 CST, 18 January 2013 >>

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ProT ' - Reply to #1942

This, or organize a tournament to give some to the best players and start getting reviews for the promotion of the product.

<< Comment #1944 @ 07:51 CST, 18 January 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1943

Faceit sunday special event, 2k viewers, zoot and ddk advertising a mouse on camera every 5 seconds.

<< Comment #1945 @ 21:14 CST, 18 January 2013 >>

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ProT ' - Reply to #1944

Or something like that, yes. :)

<< Comment #1946 @ 04:44 CST, 19 January 2013 >>

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extaleR - Reply to #1943

http://www.razercpl.com/main.shtml?tournament
:-)

<< Comment #1947 @ 18:30 CST, 21 January 2013 >>

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KittenIgnition

Wasn't the ETA January? :(

I was hoping I'd be able to get someone to get me one for my poor ass's birthday, but my plans have been ruined.

Edited by KittenIgnition at 18:30 CST, 21 January 2013

<< Comment #1949 @ 01:03 CST, 22 January 2013 >>

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Anonymous (88.168.207.34) - Reply to #1947

The ETA was April... 2012. Delays, but it's for the better (still don't take TOO much time, needs a solid mouse for Defiance's release, which is in 2.5 months). Hopefully. :3

<< Comment #1948 @ 00:27 CST, 22 January 2013 >>

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JamesBarns

Oh man I am so psyched! Just can't wait to get my hands on one of them! My current mouse has a wheel that is horrible for gaming so I am just hoping to get one soon!
--------------
James
http://www.squidoo.com/top-gaming-mouse <-- Best Mice For Gaming

<< Comment #1951 @ 07:54 CST, 22 January 2013 >>

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tbone - Reply to #1948

Oh man, the mice on that list...

List with no WMO is no list at all...

<< Comment #1952 @ 09:16 CST, 22 January 2013 >>

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Sopsy - Reply to #1948

Is this list a cruel joke? Two nagas on the same list, g500 and g700 on the list, outdated mx518 on the list (should be replaced with a g400). People like you shouldn't be close enough to the aurora to taint its holy presence.

<< Comment #1970 @ 16:12 CST, 2 February 2013 >>

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ashy - Reply to #1948

#4 Mad Catz Cyborg PC Gaming Mouse

hahahah :D

<< Comment #1954 @ 11:29 CST, 25 January 2013 >>

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megaman3

how much is the button input lag? that's one of the wmo's "problems" (more like being extremely picky), because it is twice as much as others.

can't find that japanese website with graphs and everything though

<< Comment #1956 @ 16:50 CST, 25 January 2013 >>

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Anonymous (216.221.54.190) - Reply to #1954

http://www.esreality.com/files/placeimages/20...atency.gif

<< Comment #1957 @ 14:27 CST, 28 January 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.140) - Reply to #1956

How do you measure the latency?

<< Comment #1958 @ 15:04 CST, 28 January 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1956

yeah that one. I remember the 1.1 sensor mice were tested using 500hz, so 125hz is not an excuse for the large input lag (around 18) in comparison to other mice (5, 9).

<< Comment #1959 @ 13:09 CST, 29 January 2013 >>

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somiao - Reply to #1958

Link to original article please?

<< Comment #2008 @ 00:05 CST, 6 March 2013 >>

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Anonymous (66.36.136.233) - Reply to #1954

I believe this is measuring the mouse input lag. All the mouse are being compared to the G300.

The chart:
http://blog-imgs-50.fc2.com/r/a/f/rafaut/resp...120221.jpg

More information:
http://rafaut.blog46.fc2.com/blog-entry-114.html

<< Comment #2011 @ 04:53 CST, 6 March 2013 >>

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somiao - Reply to #2008

Already found it sometime ago, but thanks a lot man, appreciate it

<< Comment #1955 @ 14:08 CST, 25 January 2013 >>

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Hasn't been any updates from bst in a while, is everything on track?

<< Comment #1960 @ 17:02 CST, 29 January 2013 >>

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BST, have the new beta samples gone out yet? I really hope your mouse comes out before Heart of the Swarm.

<< Comment #1961 @ 21:31 CST, 29 January 2013 >>

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Anonymous (24.84.56.219)

Looking forward to news and preorders :)

Side buttons will be great after using my G100 for so long.

Thanks for all the work bst!

<< Comment #1962 @ 01:09 CST, 31 January 2013 >>

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gotrandom

It is slightly unsettling to have no updates from BST.

Could mean one of two things

1. Everything is going smooth so no updates/changes
2. Trying to fix a frustrating bug that is consuming all of his time.

Either way I am crazy excited for this mouse and would be willing to sell them through my local business if they match the hype.

<< Comment #1963 @ 09:11 CST, 31 January 2013 >>

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shoxr

When will this be out then? I can't wait to smash this piece of shit deathadder onto the concrete

Edited by shoxr at 09:12 CST, 31 January 2013

<< Comment #1966 @ 09:08 CST, 1 February 2013 >>

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stiffnipple - Reply to #1963

next christmas.

<< Comment #1968 @ 12:02 CST, 1 February 2013 >>

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Sopsy

Its my bday today and I again tried throwing money to my screen but it still didn't accept it even when I tried 70€. I'm kind of disappointed.

<< Comment #1967 @ 12:02 CST, 1 February 2013 >>

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Anonymous (87.204.67.24)

aurora looks awesome
BST can we have some update whats going on please

<< Comment #1969 @ 05:53 CST, 2 February 2013 >>

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azxx

be patient guys. it has been quite long (even i don't want to wait anymore) but it will take more time if it has to come out right.

<< Comment #1971 @ 05:45 CST, 4 February 2013 >>

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»bst

Sorry I haven't updated in a while! Its been a bit hard to explain whats going on, but in short there were a few things I wanted done for the beta test, so asked the factory to do it, but in improving some areas they broke another couple (I got another sample last week), so atm they are fixing them. They aren't really huge things, so shouldn't take much longer, but enough to make me want to fix them before the beta test (theres a level I want to attain before doing it, which it hasn't yet reached). But like I say the important things are fine, like DPI, max speed, LOD etc. The main reason I am holding off the beta test for what some people here may consider to be little things, is compatibility with different PCs/software/hardware, because even something small (seemingly unimportant) can cause problems. So I need the mouse to be at a certain level of development so that area can be tested reliably.

<< Comment #1974 @ 09:17 CST, 5 February 2013 >>

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stiffnipple - Reply to #1971

and i thought it was getting closer to the finale release date. oh well.

<< Comment #1982 @ 05:11 CST, 8 February 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.77) - Reply to #1974

Don't forget Chinese new year. It will be a lot longer.

Don't wait for the mouse, just move on with your life. Think about it when it is released. Like you would do with a video game.

<< Comment #1972 @ 07:04 CST, 5 February 2013 >>

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mew - Reply to #1971

It's good that you're thorough, hopefully they'll turn out well.

<< Comment #1973 @ 09:17 CST, 5 February 2013 >>

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Anonymous (68.192.168.44) - Reply to #1971

More power to you Master Lord bst. You're doing God's work.

<< Comment #1975 @ 12:17 CST, 5 February 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1971

http://esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gaming-...pid2377472

<< Comment #1976 @ 15:11 CST, 5 February 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1975

Sorry I forgot to reply to you earlier about that :/ The factory tells me its its under 1ms, I'm not sure how to verify it though

<< Comment #1984 @ 09:19 CST, 17 February 2013 >>

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Anonymous (93.206.255.9) - Reply to #1971

You mentioned different PCs/software/hardware.
I know it is a lot to ask, but is there a possibility for Mac support? It should work as a generic mouse nonetheless, but those configuration options (driver) would be really handy to have in OS X.

<< Comment #1986 @ 10:28 CST, 17 February 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1984

If the Aurora sells well, then I will make a new mouse with the 3090 sensor, which at the same time will improve the Aurora software. So at that point mac os support could happen, but at the moment I'm not sure of the difficulties involved so can't say for certain. I know its a pain but it does work fine as a driverless mouse, and you can still configure it in windows, and it'll remember your settings for when you plug it into a mac (eg, button binds, macros, DPI steps, led colours etc., are remembered).

<< Comment #1977 @ 05:35 CST, 6 February 2013 >>

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Caved in a bought a CM Storm Recon. Closest I could find to an Aurora. Knowing myself, I'll also buy an Aurora in a few months when it's out...

<< Comment #1985 @ 09:43 CST, 17 February 2013 >>

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Anonymous (93.206.255.9) - Reply to #1977

Do you like it?
I'm also thinking about getting this to overcome the wait for bst's Aurora.

<< Comment #1992 @ 16:22 CST, 25 February 2013 >>

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Anonymous (88.168.207.34) - Reply to #1985

No, it's too heavy and the right side extra buttons are annoying. "Technically" it's a great mouse, great specs, great build quality. Just too heavy.

<< Comment #1978 @ 06:20 CST, 6 February 2013 >>

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h8m3

2000th

<< Comment #1979 @ 07:54 CST, 6 February 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1978

wp :)

<< Comment #1980 @ 13:40 CST, 6 February 2013 >>

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Xen_Crypt - Reply to #1978

top left

<< Comment #1981 @ 16:23 CST, 6 February 2013 >>

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kryze

My project for Ninox, Razer Salmosa with Razer Orochi Mousewheel :D
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphoto...7632_n.jpg

<< Comment #1983 @ 07:19 CST, 13 February 2013 >>

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stiffnipple - Reply to #1981

nice paint skills.

Edited by stiffnipple at 03:49 CST, 14 February 2013

<< Comment #1987 @ 18:16 CST, 19 February 2013 >>

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resis

Can't wait for Christmas.

<< Comment #1993 @ 00:59 CST, 27 February 2013 >>

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Anonymous (93.197.106.86)

In my opinion its near perfect and could replace my g100.

But,
why not bigger teflon feets? 30-50% of the bottom side should be covered. To much pressure results into friction with the bottom of the housing. Maybe in 2nd generation or upgrade-teflon-feets-whatever. Any release date and price yet?

P.S.
Every gap gets dirty (especially on top) and feels not pleasant - less is more!

<< Comment #1995 @ 06:08 CST, 27 February 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1993

I would have done it if it were easy, but its expensive to change the shape of them, since they have to make a new mold for the bottom of the mouse. Its the same thing with the grooves in the top. I'll make a mouse with a 100% new mold as long as this one sells reasonably well :)

<< Comment #1996 @ 10:30 CST, 27 February 2013 >>

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wakefield - Reply to #1995

So what's the current status?

<< Comment #1997 @ 10:45 CST, 27 February 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #1996

Have a look here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1240739/bsts-gamin...t_19379862

<< Comment #1998 @ 11:18 CST, 27 February 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #1997

read all the comments after yours and practically all of them are noobs. Why do you keep them updated instead of the ESR gaming master race

<< Comment #1999 @ 11:37 CST, 27 February 2013 >>

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Teen Queen ' - Reply to #1998

Wrong.
Most of them are a lot more tech savvy than your ordinary ESR tard.

<< Comment #2003 @ 12:28 CST, 2 March 2013 >>

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Drexciyian - Reply to #1998

maybe cos he wants to sell to more than 5 people?

<< Comment #2007 @ 05:33 CST, 5 March 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2003

This thread is vastly more popular than the one there.

<< Comment #2000 @ 17:06 CST, 27 February 2013 >>

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wakefield - Reply to #1997

Thanks. So there's a box picture of Velocity out (looks great). Is there one of the Aurora?

<< Comment #2004 @ 13:30 CST, 2 March 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2000

Sorry I don't have one atm, its the same design as the velocity box though.

<< Comment #1994 @ 03:17 CST, 27 February 2013 >>

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Tobbe

+On the gap gunk.. but not a deal-breaker exactly. :)

<< Comment #2001 @ 19:34 CST, 27 February 2013 >>

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gienon

How would a shipment to Poland be arranged, bst?

<< Comment #2002 @ 12:12 CST, 2 March 2013 >>

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Anonymous (88.168.207.34) - Reply to #2001

By Kurwa Airways

22%

<< Comment #2010 @ 03:54 CST, 6 March 2013 >>

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Xsi - Reply to #2002

you made my day anon xD

<< Comment #2005 @ 13:50 CST, 2 March 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2001

If you select the German shop it will deliver it from Germany (Amazon.de). You should be able to choose between courier or normal post.

<< Comment #2006 @ 00:56 CST, 5 March 2013 >>

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Anonymous (83.31.119.78)

How fabulous

<< Comment #2009 @ 02:08 CST, 6 March 2013 >>

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abso

nice to see the mouse will be available on amazon! Do we have a date for preorder/release yet?

<< Comment #2012 @ 14:23 CST, 6 March 2013 >>

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KittenIgnition

WHERE IS MY MOUUUUSE

<< Comment #2013 @ 15:26 CST, 6 March 2013 >>

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Sopsy - Reply to #2012

I'm wondering the exact same thing. I wish bst would start taking preorders.

<< Comment #2014 @ 16:30 CST, 6 March 2013 >>

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Anonymous (178.3.62.163)

So far I see NO reason to take this over my perfectly shaped, cheap and almost flawless g400 with old mx518 style mouse feet.

convince me otherwise??

<< Comment #2016 @ 19:37 CST, 6 March 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #2014

It's almost half the weight?

<< Comment #2017 @ 22:25 CST, 6 March 2013 >>

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ergot - Reply to #2014

G400 is heavy, the cord wears out, and i've read problems with the scroll wheel.

if you like the shape then there isn't a reason since they're apples and oranges in that regard

<< Comment #2015 @ 18:04 CST, 6 March 2013 >>

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generic nickname

your mouse is too heavy, not suited to fingertips grip and is missing a fair few features compared to the aurora

update yourself

<< Comment #2018 @ 00:05 CST, 7 March 2013 >>

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Anonymous (92.76.67.253)

no sane player uses fingertip grip man... all good players aim with their arm not with their wrist having sensis of around 20-40cm/360.

the weight is an argument. dont have a comparisation though.

oh and the cord wont wear out that easily if you fix it properly to stay still above your mousepad.

<< Comment #2021 @ 12:47 CST, 8 March 2013 >>

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zealot - Reply to #2018

no sane player uses fingertip grip man... all good players aim with their arm not with their wrist having sensis of around 20-40cm/360.
no, far from it.

convince me otherwise??
why should we care? convince yourself or if you're happy with what you got, stick with it.

<< Comment #2022 @ 15:56 CST, 8 March 2013 >>

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Glyde - Reply to #2018

actually most of the pros prefer fingertip or claw grip. and you are completely wrong with your aiming theory. It's fine that you use your arm for turning and rockets, but aiming is better with wrist and there are situations where you have to use even your fingers to hit a rail or shaft from a long distance.

weight shouldn't be an argument. lighter is better, coz it's easy to increase weight if you prefer heavy mice, but you can't make it lighter. I've played with both light and heavy mice and I prefer light ones. Top players also use very light mice. There must be a reason why =)

<< Comment #2023 @ 16:00 CST, 8 March 2013 >>

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Teen Queen ' - Reply to #2018

I own a g400.

The cord is really not the best.

<< Comment #2024 @ 17:53 CST, 8 March 2013 >>

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Anonymous (88.70.119.51) - Reply to #2023

"convince yourself" this was more of a question to the creator ;) I wanted an argument from him why I should take his over the g400.

you guys are right the claw grip is necessary for fine aim movements.. I just do it subconsciously :P

the cord does not really matter though, mine is ok since november

<< Comment #2025 @ 18:16 CST, 8 March 2013 >>

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Teen Queen ' - Reply to #2024

Mine isn't, I had wmo and a 3.0 for a much, much longer time and the cord didn't start failing.

Rest assured the g400 is a superb mouse and I'm loving it so far, but honestly the cord is an issue if you aren't too careful with it.

<< Comment #2026 @ 08:41 CST, 9 March 2013 >>

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Anonymous (178.3.10.213) - Reply to #2025

I honestly cant decide whether to replace the coating with my old mx518's though. It was more prone to the grey stuff on the surface after you used it for hours (dried sweat etc?) but it sticked to your hand :P the g400 was a huge readjustment in that regard. felt way to slippery the first 1-2 weeks

<< Comment #2020 @ 02:12 CST, 7 March 2013 >>

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0x5f3759df

bst pls BibleThump

<< Comment #2027 @ 17:06 CDT, 18 March 2013 >>

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B4ZE

Any news?

<< Comment #2028 @ 18:34 CDT, 18 March 2013 >>

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wakefield - Reply to #2027

Not even in the overclock.net thread, where he posts more frequently than here. As much as I eagerly anticipate this project, and respect bst for his work, I'm getting progressively more inclined to agree with the criticism raised in this post: http://www.overclock.net/t/1240739/bsts-gamin...t_19535726

Edited by wakefield at 18:36 CDT, 18 March 2013

<< Comment #2029 @ 20:37 CDT, 18 March 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2027

There will be some news very soon, I'll post it on here, ocn and the newsletter. Should be in the next couple of days, there is something coming in the post ;)

<< Comment #2030 @ 21:00 CDT, 18 March 2013 >>

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B4ZE - Reply to #2029

satan :O

<< Comment #2031 @ 05:48 CDT, 23 March 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2030

}:]

<< Comment #2032 @ 05:57 CDT, 23 March 2013 >>

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»bst

I got some things I want to say soon, but I'm just waiting for some answers from the factory on some things. Its pretty cool though (well I think it is). I don't want to say just yet what it is because I want to make sure its all possible.

<< Comment #2034 @ 11:05 CDT, 23 March 2013 >>

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Sopsy - Reply to #2032

Something completely new on the mouse market?

<< Comment #2037 @ 03:08 CDT, 25 March 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2034

Not completely new but new-ish I suppose. Its just something that I think is the best thing to do. But its kind of lucky as well, because it should be very easy :D (thats what I'm waiting to hear back about, if indeed it is as easy as I think it is).

<< Comment #2033 @ 10:28 CDT, 23 March 2013 >>

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random99 - Reply to #2032

I hope it's not some new feature or something similarly useless. I want fucking release date!!!!1111 :D

<< Comment #2035 @ 03:57 CDT, 24 March 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.78)

I don't see what it could be other than releasing a batch in summer.

Couldn't you have already released the 3050 version instead of waiting for the 3090? Seem odd not to do that first.

<< Comment #2036 @ 02:58 CDT, 25 March 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2035

If I had known how long the A3090 sensor would take to develop I would have finished the A3050 one first. I was told much earlier ETAs than really happened, but it wasn't intentional or anything. To lauch a product takes quite a bit so I wanted to make sure I started with the best mouse I could. Just didn't work out being as quick as I hoped.

But yeah summer - somewhere in may/june/july I expect.

<< Comment #2038 @ 07:13 CDT, 25 March 2013 >>

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»bst

Ok here is the latest update!

First thing is the Aurora, I got another version of it last week, but it had a couple of small bugs, so at the moment I'm just finding out how long it'll take to fix them. They're not big bugs, so hope they can fix them quick (then it'll be technically finished aside from very minor tweaking).

That brings me on to the next thing which is about the Velocity mouse. I wanted to at least start working on the Velocity mouse around this time, but the factory can't do what I wanted to do at the moment because they're too busy (I had come up with a driverless A3050 mouse, was nice). But after some thought and some luck, I found that the Aurora PCB fits into the Velocity shell perfectly, so it makes sense to use the same hardware as the Aurora (A3090 sensor). This way I don't have to pay barely any development costs (probably none), and the certification is much easier and cheaper than doing two completely different PCBs. Also, everyone wants the A3090 sensor, even though I like the A3050 sensor (and haven't written it off), the A3090 is technically better in every way.

Here are the main differences of the Velocity when compared to the Aurora:
- A bit lighter than the Aurora (by approx 10g, so its 55-60 grams in total)
- No side buttons
- One "DPI" button on top
- Omron D2FC switch for the scroll wheel (it wasn't possible on the Aurora)

The rest is the same spec as the Aurora since it uses exactly the same PCB/sensor/software.

I will be getting some samples of them at the same time as the Aurora beta test, but nowhere near as many, because the Aurora is already a large beta test, which is testing the same hardware. So unfortunately there aren't any available for new beta testers.

I can't be really specific about the release date of these two mice but as a rough guide it should be around May/June/July time, depending on how fast things move. I am really sorry that its been so quiet and a much longer wait than anticipated, but things are moving along now.

Here are the designs for the two different shell coatings/materials of the Velocity, basically how they'll look. If anyone wants to make suggestions about it theres still time to tweak some things.

This photo is lower res but it shows the shape a little more accurately:

Heres some comparison shots between the Aurora and Velocity shells (note that sample is missing its DPI button):
http://ninox.org/images/va/PC260316.jpg
http://ninox.org/images/va/PC260318.jpg
http://ninox.org/images/va/PC260326.jpg
http://ninox.org/images/va/PC260328.jpg
http://ninox.org/images/va/PC260329.jpg

I promise I'll post an update as soon as I find out more, any questions or suggestions feel free to ask.

Edited by »bst at 07:17 CDT, 25 March 2013

39%

<< Comment #2039 @ 09:57 CDT, 25 March 2013 >>

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TheCat - Reply to #2038

I'm looking forward to getting a hold of this. The FK is nice and all, but god damn I hate those ridiculous DPI steps.

<< Comment #2040 @ 10:20 CDT, 25 March 2013 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #2038

Yes please, use the same sensor (the best one) and I will buy a couple Velocity. Finally a mouse that's worth the WMO replacement? No side buttons, similar size and great new solid sensor.
I just hope that shinny glossy plastic is not on the sides ruining the whole thing (sweat and slippery surface)

Edited by nemecel at 10:22 CDT, 25 March 2013

<< Comment #2051 @ 23:49 CDT, 25 March 2013 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #2040

velocity is smaller than WMO(well even aurora is a very bit smaller), i'd say it's a kinzu competitor with a much better sensor

i've updated my old album with a few more povs and mice (though i don't have a proper camera atm) http://imgur.com/a/z2vPZ
Don't look at the logo, this is what betatest is for ;o

Edited by h8m3 at 23:50 CDT, 25 March 2013

<< Comment #2052 @ 05:49 CDT, 26 March 2013 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #2051

Then this sucks. We need a WMO replacement and a smaller mouse is no an option. A mouse with side buttons is also not an option.

<< Comment #2054 @ 06:54 CDT, 26 March 2013 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #2052

tbh I never pressed side buttons on aurora accidentally(and i have a really agressive grip), they don't affect the grip at all and noone makes you bind anything on them so if you don't need them they dont matter at all :)

Edited by h8m3 at 06:57 CDT, 26 March 2013

<< Comment #2055 @ 07:59 CDT, 26 March 2013 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #2054

I cant have side buttons, its simply not an option. Drives me insane.

<< Comment #2058 @ 11:12 CDT, 26 March 2013 >>

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horf - Reply to #2055

I'm just going to assume you constantly and vigorously grope your mouse.....

<< Comment #2059 @ 11:49 CDT, 26 March 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2055

Good placement = they are practically not there.

Considering size I'll buy the aurora (5 buttons, a tad more expensive).....if it comes this semester.

Edited by megaman3 at 11:52 CDT, 26 March 2013

<< Comment #2096 @ 04:01 CDT, 4 April 2013 >>

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TheCat - Reply to #2059

Mmm, if anyone needs a reference to what's good side button placement and what's bad, compare the FK to the demonspawn that is the Kana. Both have buttons on both sides, but only one will make you want to throw the mouse at a brick wall.

<< Comment #2736 @ 15:07 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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wills0r - Reply to #2096

Not sure if it's how big my hands are or how I have to grip the mouse to get accuracy, but my thumb doesn't even touch the Kana side button. :|

<< Comment #2053 @ 05:49 CDT, 26 March 2013 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #2051

Then this sucks. We need a WMO replacement and a smaller mouse is not an option. A mouse with side buttons is also not an option.

Edited by nemecel at 05:49 CDT, 26 March 2013

<< Comment #2066 @ 13:14 CDT, 28 March 2013 >>

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zealot - Reply to #2053

'we', lol.

<< Comment #2067 @ 15:23 CDT, 28 March 2013 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #2066

I meant we as objectively intelectual individuals on the site (aka wmo users)

<< Comment #2068 @ 15:45 CDT, 28 March 2013 >>

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zealot - Reply to #2067

sure

<< Comment #2069 @ 20:47 CDT, 29 March 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2053

It doesn't take much to mod the Aurora PCB into the WMO shell, I done it in about 20 mins ;) You just need access to a dremel.

Its pretty cool because the sensor, main button switches, and scroll wheel are in exactly the right place and height, so its a really easy and 'complete' mod, everything works as it should.

I only got round to doing it tonight, so it was kind of good timing, what with it being like a resurrection ;)))

Edit: forgot to say - the weight is 80 grams.

Heres some photos:

Edited by »bst at 21:32 CDT, 29 March 2013

18%

<< Comment #2070 @ 20:59 CDT, 29 March 2013 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #2069

You could do a video tutorial in how to do that, would get a ton of views definitely. It's to risky to do it if you don't know what you are doing.

<< Comment #2073 @ 21:29 CDT, 29 March 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2070

I've got another WMO coming which I'll do the mod on again, and I'll do a guide at the same time :)

<< Comment #2086 @ 03:35 CDT, 2 April 2013 >>

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CENEk - Reply to #2073

Where do you get WMOs these days?

<< Comment #2071 @ 21:05 CDT, 29 March 2013 >>

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Teen Queen ' - Reply to #2069

I kinda want one badly.

<< Comment #2072 @ 21:12 CDT, 29 March 2013 >>

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wakefield - Reply to #2069

Sweet jesus. I just came.

<< Comment #2074 @ 21:40 CDT, 29 March 2013 >>

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Teen Queen ' - Reply to #2072

This is some hardcore mouse porn

<< Comment #2075 @ 21:51 CDT, 29 March 2013 >>

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Glockateer - Reply to #2069

Officially the sickest WMO mod. : D

<< Comment #2076 @ 22:24 CDT, 29 March 2013 >>

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0x5f3759df - Reply to #2069

this post will most likely end up giving you customers that were previously on the edge before.

looks awesome

<< Comment #2077 @ 23:04 CDT, 29 March 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #2069

Do you foresee selling a 'WMO' mouse with sidebuttons and better sensor in the near future?

<< Comment #2078 @ 23:21 CDT, 29 March 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2077

Yeah I would like to do that, and also keep the same PCB so if you buy an Aurora then you can then switch to the new shape just by swapping over the PCB from the Aurora. Also if I developed a better sensor for the new mouse then you could also put that into an Aurora if you preferred that shape.

<< Comment #2079 @ 00:02 CDT, 30 March 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #2078

That would be most good. Most good indeed.

<< Comment #2085 @ 03:34 CDT, 2 April 2013 >>

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CENEk - Reply to #2069

This is... SO sexy. I mean, come on. NSFW.

<< Comment #2105 @ 09:45 CDT, 9 April 2013 >>

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amalik - Reply to #2069

Considering this, can I just buy a PCB off you :P

<< Comment #2107 @ 12:17 CDT, 11 April 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2105

I haven't asked the factory about it yet but it should be ok.

<< Comment #2109 @ 12:58 CDT, 11 April 2013 >>

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amalik - Reply to #2107

I'm just joking, I'd just buy the mouse! I'd feel mean if I didn't give the full product the chance it deserves... to replace my dear beloved WMO. :P

<< Comment #2056 @ 08:11 CDT, 26 March 2013 >>

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Rjven - Reply to #2051

sweet collection of mice you got there! :)

<< Comment #2060 @ 11:50 CDT, 26 March 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2051

wmo with a stripped cable and wheel fixed \o/

<< Comment #2064 @ 12:45 CDT, 28 March 2013 >>

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Shuki - Reply to #2051

Have you got a Razer Krait? Would like to see a picture side by side with velocity. I have a feeling its slightly wider than the krait, but I really like the design.

<< Comment #2065 @ 12:49 CDT, 28 March 2013 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #2064

nah, i gave it away

<< Comment #2042 @ 10:36 CDT, 25 March 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2038

The whole project doesn't sound as good as it did 1 and a half years ago. Now that there are zowie mice that can be considered to be perfect and which anyone can buy right now (wmo and 3.0-ish replacements), logitech's g400 and making a mx300 replacement that actually works, and that sensor and shapes are available on other mice too.

What I want to say is you have to release this before everyone forgets about this.

Edited by megaman3 at 10:43 CDT, 25 March 2013

<< Comment #2045 @ 11:47 CDT, 25 March 2013 >>

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Anonymous (195.23.5.93) - Reply to #2042

true..

zowies are looking pretty solid as it is, and they are readily available on the market.

I was really looking forward for this, but the truth is I now own zowies, and I find those mice very very hard to beat, starting with the driver-less approach, going to form factor, and of course, overall performance. even the Huano switches everybody complains about feel pretty good imo..

<< Comment #2043 @ 11:24 CDT, 25 March 2013 >>

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mew - Reply to #2042

Agreed. As an old MX300 fan, I got very excited when Logitech came out with the new G100S. I'm going to have to get the G100S as well as both of the Ninox ones just to find out which one is the best. Then buy about 5 or so of that one.

The Zowie mice are quite a bit bigger than the MX300 shell, aren't they? Not really an option for people who like the small size of MX300 and its variants.

<< Comment #2080 @ 09:18 CDT, 30 March 2013 >>

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oreozz - Reply to #2043

mico is the closest to that style. was developed with sc2 players that all use to use a generic pilot shaped logitech mouse. sensor would likely not work with your style.

<< Comment #2048 @ 14:04 CDT, 25 March 2013 >>

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Glyde - Reply to #2042

True. But the Ninox mice are still superior to zowie mice in every aspect. Much lighter, better sensor, better switches, better shell(imo). I'd go for the FK, but here's the aurora and it keeps me waiting.

<< Comment #2049 @ 14:18 CDT, 25 March 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2048

Question is when. Most people won't buy a ninox after buying a zowie or a new logitech recently, me included.

<< Comment #2061 @ 18:15 CDT, 26 March 2013 >>

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Shuki - Reply to #2049

So basically you aren't going to buy it, so why are you trying to give input to the development?

<< Comment #2062 @ 18:33 CDT, 26 March 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2061

I won't buy it if it is not released this millennium. This thread was made one and a half years ago, and so far there's no dates or anything concrete yet.

<< Comment #2046 @ 12:50 CDT, 25 March 2013 >>

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Lam ' - Reply to #2038

The sides aren't smooth? :(

I don't know, maybe with low weight of the Aurora it won't bother me, but for perfect fingertip handling, smooth (aka glossy) sides were always necessary.

<< Comment #2047 @ 13:03 CDT, 25 March 2013 >>

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acid_reptile - Reply to #2046

Exactly my thoughts. I remember using transparent tape on the sides of my G3, only for that reason.

<< Comment #2063 @ 18:21 CDT, 27 March 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.60) - Reply to #2038

First, I hope that the scroll wheel isn't transparent rubber. I say this because after some time it turns a nasty yellow. You would know this since you have a Diamondback. It also can become sticky after it deteriorates.

Second, have you thought of having the "Velocity" text placed vertically instead of horizontally?

Third, I hope you stick with standard height feet and have the LOD at 2-2.5mm with those feet. That way tracking will be great and you can use taller feet to lower LOD if you want. Check the deviation chart for more info.

Fourth, what about defaulting out of the box to 400 @ 500Hz or 400 @ 1000Hz? Does the CPI button change the LED color when pressed? The default colors for the LED per step should go up in frequency. That is to say, 400 (red), 800 (orange), 1600 (yellow), 3200 (green), 4000 (blue).

Fifth, I hope the side buttons on the Aurora are rather light and the CPI button on both mice are very heavy.

Sixth, have you pondered having a white version of the Aurora? I think the entire mouse opaque white is better than having it in white with the current transparent configuration.

<< Comment #2041 @ 10:34 CDT, 25 March 2013 >>

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raumschiffkomandant

Which one is the bestest?! xD

<< Comment #2044 @ 11:26 CDT, 25 March 2013 >>

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Rjven - Reply to #2041

depends on your preferences. Side buttons, weight, DPI steps, price etc...

<< Comment #2050 @ 22:20 CDT, 25 March 2013 >>

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raumschiffkomandant - Reply to #2044

-i like side buttons as long as they are well-positioned
-Lightest
-i use 800 atm on my g400
-Affordable if possible

But most of all, solid sensor!

<< Comment #2057 @ 08:12 CDT, 26 March 2013 >>

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kevz - Reply to #2050

this is pretty much what im looking for aswell. currently on a cm xornet ^^

dpi buttons can be left off though, ive never had a single use for them and just accidently hit them once or twice a year.

<< Comment #2081 @ 03:50 CDT, 1 April 2013 >>

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Petru

Hi bst.
Can this mouse be shipped to Moldova with reasonable shipping price like max. 15$? Amazon shipps nothing here, like most online shops.

<< Comment #2082 @ 05:42 CDT, 1 April 2013 >>

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Ffleri - Reply to #2081

Error: The target user can't receive judgements
;(

<< Comment #2091 @ 12:43 CDT, 2 April 2013 >>

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Teen Queen ' - Reply to #2081

Shipped to moldova?

This mouse is made in Moldova.

<< Comment #2095 @ 17:27 CDT, 3 April 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2081

It should be fine. Royal Mail will deliver a mouse to you for £10.25 (about $15), its a 5 day service.

Have a look here: http://www.royalmail.com/price-finder

<< Comment #2083 @ 22:09 CDT, 1 April 2013 >>

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Anonymous (91.21.161.70)

this mouse is like duke nukem forever.
when it was announced and it the first few months/years everybody was like: yehaaa yeah amazing wow best mouse ever.

now its like: WHEN WILL THIS SHIT FINALLY BE RELEASED.

oh still same hardware but price increased. still nothing changed, still no release date. still no facts behind all the dust.

fuck this shit. i will buy a razer/zowie/logitech mouse and so should everybody else, that does not want to wait another fucking year.

<< Comment #2084 @ 02:25 CDT, 2 April 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #2083

I think BST's said this before, but this isn't like other mouse releases. BST announced the conception of a new mouse, not one that has been in the works for a year like other brands/companies. Thanks to that, we've had community input on what sort of things we would like to see. Conversely, we have to wait through production, sampling, modifications based on feedback and certification. I don't think BST is deliberately telling the factory to just pause and take a break, on the other hand maybe he isn't as strict as he should be in terms of laying down the whip. All in all, this is how mouse production, from R&D to factory mass production could possibly go; it's normal.

Edited by end0rphine at 02:26 CDT, 2 April 2013

<< Comment #2087 @ 03:54 CDT, 2 April 2013 >>

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B4ZE - Reply to #2084

He still got a point right there because in the end the most important thing in a mouse in the first place is the shape and BST's mouse have a quite normal and "already seen" shape, like the brand he listed. And adding features like decoration LED with 16 million colors and other stuff are quite the opposite of what we were thinking of from this project.

<< Comment #2090 @ 12:37 CDT, 2 April 2013 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #2087

Yet, nothing of the flashy stuff has delayed the mouse according to BST. There have been bugs, or the performance wasn't up to it with the beta samples he got. Plus, BST is only one person. There is no company behind this like Logitech or Razer where there a a multitude of people making stuff happen. BST has to build the mouse, the driver, the website etc. etc. all by himself. TBH, I'm not surprised this is taking so long.

Like he said himself, this was no official announcement yet. Do you know how long Razer, Logitech or Steel work on a product before they release just the tiniest of hints? Well, BST put this out right from the get go. So, no I don't think people have a point when they complain. They can however, chose to buy another product now instead of waiting for this.

<< Comment #2088 @ 04:02 CDT, 2 April 2013 >>

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tbone - Reply to #2083

Oh hi anon.

fuck off, go buy your other shitty mice.

<< Comment #2089 @ 04:42 CDT, 2 April 2013 >>

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By

slm

WMO-SHELL
M
O
-
S
H
E
L
L

<< Comment #2092 @ 14:52 CDT, 2 April 2013 >>

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raumschiffkomandant - Reply to #2089

indeed
n
d
e
e
d

<< Comment #2093 @ 01:07 CDT, 3 April 2013 >>

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slm

do ONE GOOD PCB and several replacementable shells: wmo-shell, ie3.0-shell, mx510-shell, mx300-shell. ????? PROFIT!

<< Comment #2094 @ 05:39 CDT, 3 April 2013 >>

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Anonymous (124.183.254.83)

YESSSSSSSSS!!!!

I am making a thread about this on the main forum.

GG to you, my friend!

<< Comment #2097 @ 08:36 CDT, 6 April 2013 >>

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end0rphine

Just curious BST, are there any molds from the factory you licensed that are similar or basically the same shell as the WMO? If there are, would that mean it would be easy to release said mouse after the aurora is completed?

<< Comment #2098 @ 22:48 CDT, 6 April 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.62) - Reply to #2097

There is no point to doing that unless it is for the Velocity.

Also there is no mouse that BST could sell that is almost, if not, exactly like a Microsoft mouse. That could get him a lawsuit. So you would end up with a mouse that does not satisfy your want of a WMO shape.

The best thing to do is to use a PCB that fits in the WMO. The problem is that it will not be perfect and you would need no buy WMOs to modify.

Unless you want to put up thousands to make a perfect fitting PCB and lens mold, it is just a pipe dream.

<< Comment #2099 @ 23:24 CDT, 6 April 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #2098

That's why I said similar. It's quite easy to get around a lawsuit when you just have to modify some dimensions or places. They don't have a trademark or patent on a shape where you put your hand on the mouse ;-) Where else do you think this 'mx300' like shell for the aurora came from? I was also asking if there was already a mold that is sold by the factory. If there ever *was* an indictment, the onus is on the factory, not BST.

"There is no point to doing that unless it is for the Velocity."

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Edited by end0rphine at 23:31 CDT, 6 April 2013

<< Comment #2104 @ 15:20 CDT, 8 April 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2097

I've found one which is similar, but its more like a combination of a WMO and Abyssus.

I only just found it so I haven't tried it yet, but I'm getting a sample of it soon (hopefully next week). It already has the A3090 sensor installed but it might need some tweaking. But overall it could come out around the same time, it just depends how good the sample is.

Unless some nice OEM shells show up, I will focus more on making a new mold for a WMO-type mouse, because at the moment there aren't any OEMs that are really close enough. But if the first mice don't sell well then ofc I probably won't be able to make a new mold, unless if I use kickstarter or something like that.

<< Comment #2119 @ 03:03 CDT, 15 April 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #2104

That's interesting to hear, thank for the reply. I'm personally waiting on the aurora (MX300 > WMO in my opinion) but I have a friend who can't use anything other than a WMO.

<< Comment #2100 @ 10:51 CDT, 7 April 2013 >>

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lemming#13

Didn't BST state somewhere, that he was thinking about different shells once the Aurora/Velocity are done? I mean, if these babies turn out great on the inside there is no reason not to create spin offs for different people. I'd think BST is smart enough to create the PCB in a way it fits into most shells.

It would be a question of success for the Aurora/Velocity and then one about demand for a new product. Given that Zowie basically did the same thing with the FK, why not?

<< Comment #2101 @ 11:15 CDT, 7 April 2013 >>

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B4ZE - Reply to #2100

I hope you are right because shape is the most important thing in a mouse and i have quite a few ideas i would like to suggest here.

<< Comment #2102 @ 00:08 CDT, 8 April 2013 >>

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Cooldog74

Yo bst please use the 3050 in the velocity. The cpi steps and max IPS seem to be much better and as a low sense player that just seems much better. Frankly the 60 of the 3090 just isn't enough for many of us. I know you're trying to get them out asap, but wasn't the point of making two mice to use a different sensor in each mouse? Just please go the extra mile with it.

Also, I know how completely insane this sounds, but if possible it'd be cool to have the pcb's about the same with just a different sensor, because the 3050 in the aurora shell is my dream mouse, and I'm sure the same goes for a lot of others as well (Or 3090 in velocity shell).

Aside from that, thanks for undertaking this massive project, so excited! (And sorry for everyone nipping at your heels about the mouse)

<< Comment #2103 @ 13:23 CDT, 8 April 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2102

I know on Avago's site they say its 60 IPS for the A3090 and 160 for the A3050, but in reality the A3090 performs better than the A3050.

I tested the tracking speed of the Aurora (A3090) with enotus here:
http://www.esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gam...pid2363237

5m/s is about 200 IPS, which is a bit higher compared to what I get from the A3050. (Enotus isn't the most accurate test ever, but it is accurate enough to get a very good idea, and its fine to use as a tool to compare other mice).

Thanks for the nice comments at the end, no need to apologise for people being interested ;) I just wish I had more time to talk to everyone at the moment :(

Edited by »bst at 13:24 CDT, 8 April 2013

<< Comment #2106 @ 08:15 CDT, 11 April 2013 >>

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Anonymous (76.89.116.108)

Hey BST, today is my birthday, do you think you could make the PCB ready for purchase please? Pleaseeeee? Pleaseeeeeeee? ;)

<< Comment #2108 @ 12:22 CDT, 11 April 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2106

Happy Bday :) I will put up pre-orders for them soon, juts need to find out how much cheaper they will be compared with the mouse, and how to pack them.

<< Comment #2110 @ 15:31 CDT, 11 April 2013 >>

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Sopsy - Reply to #2108

How about putting pre-orders up for the mouse itself? ;)

<< Comment #2114 @ 10:26 CDT, 13 April 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2110

I will, it would be at the same time :)

<< Comment #2112 @ 01:48 CDT, 13 April 2013 >>

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Anonymous (76.110.171.220)

holy shit i've been looking for a replacement for my logitech MX300 for -years-

been using this crummy alienware tactx mouse for a while and honestly it sucks

when will the aurora be ready for purchase?

<< Comment #2111 @ 01:48 CDT, 13 April 2013 >>

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Anonymous (84.175.255.140)

hey, every night before i go to bed i scroll down this page just for the lols cuz i want to know when this mouse will be released so badly :X
can u maybe give me like an even very unprecise time space when i can purchase it?

<< Comment #2113 @ 01:59 CDT, 13 April 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #2111

He has said May/June/July

<< Comment #2122 @ 04:27 CDT, 15 April 2013 >>

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Lam ' - Reply to #2113

He has also said February/March 2012.

<< Comment #2115 @ 16:32 CDT, 14 April 2013 >>

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resis

Bst, when people are excited about a new, upcoming game, they get some screenshots and later a gameplay video. We had screenshots already, we want a gameplay video now.

What if you made a video, like one of those high quality unboxing vids, where you move and turn the mouse around so we can see it like for real?

<< Comment #2116 @ 18:48 CDT, 14 April 2013 >>

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B4ZE - Reply to #2115

indeed!

<< Comment #2118 @ 20:07 CDT, 14 April 2013 >>

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Anonymous (86.144.70.231) - Reply to #2115

nVc did a beta test video on it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4onNlYmraTw

<< Comment #2117 @ 19:57 CDT, 14 April 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2115

Yeah I suppose theres no harm in it... I was going to do a nice one for the website. I have already recorded some in the past that I could upload, but it wasn't recorded on the best camera. I think I might have access to a better camera, I'll check tomorrow and maybe do a new video or upload the old ones I made.

Edited by »bst at 20:45 CDT, 14 April 2013

<< Comment #2120 @ 03:58 CDT, 15 April 2013 >>

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By

sonic

this is the mouse cooller was using yesterday

Edited by sonic at 03:59 CDT, 15 April 2013

<< Comment #2121 @ 04:15 CDT, 15 April 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #2120

Really? Where at?

<< Comment #2123 @ 07:25 CDT, 15 April 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2120

with the cooller sticker as well

<< Comment #2124 @ 16:52 CDT, 15 April 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.61) - Reply to #2120

Sounds like an assumption.

<< Comment #2170 @ 21:33 CDT, 7 May 2013 >>

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Demiurge - Reply to #2124

it's obviously a fact. when was internet ever wrong before?

<< Comment #2125 @ 05:48 CDT, 28 April 2013 >>

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petejones

Please throw us an update bst! Anything! What about the video?
P.S. Thank you for all the work you've done.

<< Comment #2126 @ 16:55 CDT, 28 April 2013 >>

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mew

Would really like to give you money, bst. Hopefully even get a mouse in return, what do you say?

Edited by mew at 16:56 CDT, 28 April 2013

<< Comment #2127 @ 17:37 CDT, 28 April 2013 >>

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By

Yeah a video would be nice, how's that may ETA looking?

<< Comment #2128 @ 08:52 CDT, 29 April 2013 >>

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By

aloy99

Will this be sold online with international shipping? :c

<< Comment #2129 @ 09:39 CDT, 29 April 2013 >>

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no_il

C'mon Bst, atleast give the community some updates please. It's been 8 months since nVc uploaded that beta test version, a version which many of us would have been more than happy to pay the 50$+- that your charging for, and even pay once again for the official mouse release. I don't mean to educate you on a how to run a business and have no right to do so, but more frequent updates would be appreciates until we have a product that we can get our hands on.

<< Comment #2131 @ 16:50 CDT, 29 April 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2129

in the mean time I could use a beta tester version here lol.

<< Comment #2132 @ 17:02 CDT, 29 April 2013 >>

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no_il - Reply to #2131

He could have sold 1000's of them already.

<< Comment #2171 @ 23:52 CDT, 7 May 2013 >>

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Vdo - Reply to #2132

Patience my friend.

<< Comment #2130 @ 15:01 CDT, 29 April 2013 >>

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petejones

You know, even if there's nothing good to announce, it's still wrong to leave hundreds of people hanging without even a basic weekly notice to tell us nothing happened or something small happened. This just looks like lazyness and it's not going to help your (and our) cause (getting your mouse the anticipation it deserves).

Edited by petejones at 16:41 CDT, 29 April 2013

<< Comment #2133 @ 18:26 CDT, 29 April 2013 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #2130

don't be a cunt

This guy is going ballsdeep into a whole new business, if he fucks it up nobody wins.

it'll be done when it's done and i'll still buy 3 of em. You fags can fuck off to zowie or whatever in the mean time.

<< Comment #2134 @ 18:56 CDT, 29 April 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2133

Way to look like a brain dead retard responding to a respectful comment. Bst should give updates here and there, even if there isn't much to report.

Edited by petejones at 01:47 CDT, 30 April 2013

<< Comment #2135 @ 23:50 CDT, 29 April 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #2134

'Should' is a tad over-extending I think. It's not like we're investors. It's in his best interests to, but no obligation to.

<< Comment #2136 @ 01:39 CDT, 30 April 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2135

I guess I agree, but c'mon. This community has been a big help with designing a mouse from the ground up to satisfy anyone from the hardcore technical player to the lazy casual. It's also the driving force for the hype around it. It's not a big deal, but I don't think it's too much to ask for updates a little more often. Still, I massively appreciate the work bst is doing to make the best computer mouse ever made.

Edited by petejones at 01:44 CDT, 30 April 2013

<< Comment #2137 @ 02:23 CDT, 30 April 2013 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #2136

the guy probably invested thousands of dollars of his own money, while you havent spent a dime, yet you think he is obliged to post updates to you or even consider him lazy...

<< Comment #2139 @ 03:28 CDT, 30 April 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2137

Another idiot who can't read. I never said obliged in any way. And he'll be making that thousands of dollars back for sure, especially if he fully uses the community at his disposal to get the word out about this mouse.

<< Comment #2140 @ 03:39 CDT, 30 April 2013 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #2139

Another idiot who thinks hes doing this for profit... he needs to sell hundreds if not thousands to get his money back, how much do you think he will get from esr!?You think everybody is going to buy his mouse, all of big mouths would want it for free but when it comes at spitting out the dollars the likes like you are first to stfu and hide.Like someone else told you, when its done, its done.. be patient dumbfuck.

<< Comment #2141 @ 04:32 CDT, 30 April 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2140

LOL. You seem pretty upset over a guy who wants to buy a mouse and has asked for more updates from the maker. Good job showing how stupid you are.

Edited by petejones at 04:33 CDT, 30 April 2013

<< Comment #2142 @ 04:53 CDT, 30 April 2013 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #2141

where exactly am I asking for more updates?Barely posted in this thread tho I do follow with interest.Im a happy user of dback since its release 03/04 nice try tho.

<< Comment #2143 @ 04:57 CDT, 30 April 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2142

I'm the one who wants updates. Please learn English before you read or post again.

<< Comment #2144 @ 05:01 CDT, 30 April 2013 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #2143

OKE, Mr.Petejones me go lernt englisch!

<< Comment #2138 @ 03:11 CDT, 30 April 2013 >>

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Tobbe

Too bad long unnecessary posts can't be filtered out. :| ..please refrain.

Edited by Tobbe at 03:22 CDT, 30 April 2013

<< Comment #2145 @ 06:46 CDT, 30 April 2013 >>

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Lacceh

this had potential, but it's taking too long unfortunately. I decided to buy a zowie despite of my reservations(large feet, stiff buttons, custom lens, price), and this might just be the end of the road on the journey of 'looking for the perfect mouse that fits you'.

I'm sure ninox will be great though... when it's done... eventually...

<< Comment #2146 @ 14:00 CDT, 30 April 2013 >>

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»bst

Ok, I will post an update... :p

Right now I'm not actually that busy any more, I was really busy designing new drivers for the past few weeks, which is why I was so quiet, but now I can't think of anything else I need to do, except activate the website and facebook page, and start to make more updates that people want. Mostly at the moment I'm waiting for the factory to update me on the mouse. Its the final version now, so what the beta testers get will be final, unless they really need something to be changed. The mouse and software has been tested with a lot of programs and on lots of test machines so fingers crossed it should all go well.

In the end I've had to scrap the custom DPI (50 DPI step increments) on the mouse, they couldn't manage to get it to the standard I wanted, so now the DPI steps available are: 400/800/1600/3200/4000

That was the last thing they were trying to complete, I gave them one last chance and I got a sample in late march, but it still wasn't good enough, so the custom DPI was cancelled. Some work had to be done to tidy things up after removing it, and some discussions had to take place, which takes up even more time, but now there aren't any major things to do.

Oh I tried to take a video of the mouse, but my camera is really bad, it makes the mouse sound different (clicks etc), and somehow the FPS interacts with the LED, making them look like they're flickering on and off (looks broken). Its not the kind of video I wanted to show, but I will take one with a better camera really soon, of all the mice. So if theres something you really want to see in the video, feel free to ask and I'll try to do it.

I've got some more things to post soon, just want to check something quick before I do.

20%

<< Comment #2147 @ 14:08 CDT, 30 April 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2146

Throwing money at the screen yet the mouse isn't here yet.

(I'd gladly beta test the final version though)

<< Comment #2152 @ 11:34 CDT, 1 May 2013 >>

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Shuki - Reply to #2147

At this stage I would pay to beta test the final version :D

<< Comment #2148 @ 17:02 CDT, 30 April 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2146

Thanks <3

<< Comment #2149 @ 20:19 CDT, 30 April 2013 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #2146

hey bst how about a glass type mousepad? Since steelseries l-2 was discontinued (icemat) there is a large gap needed to be filled.

If you can improve on the icemat (bigger pad), with a sick look and perhaps find a solution to the pad eating mousefeet (glass mousefeet or some shit)

then you could get a lot of customers coming over to you.

I know a lot of ppl hate fucking buying new mousepads. And glass lasts forever and looks baller (aluminum sucks)

also announce the name of your mousepad contest already

<< Comment #2150 @ 20:27 CDT, 30 April 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2149

Doesn't it destroy mouse feet that aren't made of plastic?

That mousepad is quite a looker though.

<< Comment #2155 @ 17:00 CDT, 1 May 2013 >>

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Derp - Reply to #2149

I would also be very interested in a pad like this. Over the last few years I think I have spent $200+ on pads that just end up wearing out in a few months so I wouldn't mind dropping $50+ on one final pad.

The I-2 is just too small, it would need to be a minimum of 16 inches wide. The glass "G pad" on ebay is also extremely small. They provide a set of odd looking feet that might be made of a material that prevents the feet from wearing on the hard glass.

It's sad that glass pads died off. It must be bad business to sell a pad that never wears out. Companies want you back every six months buying another pad.

<< Comment #2157 @ 17:15 CDT, 3 May 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.62) - Reply to #2155

Why are you rubbing them to death with your...?

<< Comment #2160 @ 06:50 CDT, 4 May 2013 >>

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yoyoman - Reply to #2155

have you tried the hayate? I hear they are smooth like icemats and you can buy in different sizes.

<< Comment #2161 @ 17:29 CDT, 4 May 2013 >>

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Derp - Reply to #2160

I'm not interested in a glass pad for it's glide, just the durability. I doubt any artisan pad has half the durability of a glass pad.

<< Comment #2153 @ 15:48 CDT, 1 May 2013 >>

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resis - Reply to #2146

Shame the 50dpi steps are gone, was really looking toward that feature, but am not mad as I was really surprised such thing would be even possible with current day optical sensor technology. Reality eventually catches up with you and I got experience with such things, hehe.

I guess we have to wait for technological advancements from the sensor manufacturers. I wait for the day they remove acceleration from laser sensors and make them work good on any surface, and opticals wont be necessary anymore.

<< Comment #2154 @ 16:58 CDT, 1 May 2013 >>

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pecka_ - Reply to #2146

make photos or videos of final shells with compare to dimensions of other mices.
like this http://i.imgur.com/KCnWK.jpg and http://i.imgur.com/Tsja6.jpg

<< Comment #2162 @ 03:03 CDT, 6 May 2013 >>

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evilmonkey - Reply to #2154

here are some pictures I took in case bst wanted to use them

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sxk2tkyb9pl2il2/fNykze4Hu8#/

<< Comment #2166 @ 12:26 CDT, 7 May 2013 >>

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Shuki - Reply to #2162

Do you have the velocity as well? Just wondering what it looks like next to a krait.

<< Comment #2158 @ 17:15 CDT, 3 May 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.62) - Reply to #2146

The 50 CPI incremental interpolation was a very bad idea any way. More a gimmick, you know a feature that sounds good, but wouldn't actually work well. Imagine the negative comments from users...

A good question is if the 400 step is actually a native step or scaled from another?

LED mice have lower performance with glass mouse pads. Glass pads require a lot of attention to detail when being designed. There is a lot of factors that can change performance with LED based sensors.

<< Comment #2163 @ 12:23 CDT, 7 May 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2158

400 is scaled from 800, feels fine though (I've tested it a lot and haven't noticed anything bad about it).

<< Comment #2151 @ 08:52 CDT, 1 May 2013 >>

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Shuki

Me

Me in two weeks

Edited by Shuki at 08:54 CDT, 1 May 2013

<< Comment #2164 @ 12:23 CDT, 7 May 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2151

lol :D

<< Comment #2156 @ 15:26 CDT, 2 May 2013 >>

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Anonymous (84.139.0.70)

2 words:
R
E
L
E
A
S
E
DATE ?!

<< Comment #2159 @ 05:44 CDT, 4 May 2013 >>

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Anonymous (184.79.97.176) - Reply to #2156

next Holiday Season

<< Comment #2165 @ 12:26 CDT, 7 May 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2156

Atm I think its going to be 1st August, give or take 15 days.

<< Comment #2167 @ 12:31 CDT, 7 May 2013 >>

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Shuki - Reply to #2165

Will the velocity be released at the same time as the aurora?

<< Comment #2168 @ 13:58 CDT, 7 May 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2167

Yes.

<< Comment #2175 @ 13:53 CDT, 8 May 2013 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #2165

I'll take that as a release date :)

<< Comment #2169 @ 21:15 CDT, 7 May 2013 >>

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no_il

can you enable mouse prediction through the drivers/firmware on either mice?

<< Comment #2172 @ 01:14 CDT, 8 May 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2169

No, unfortunately I found out the 4000 DPI version of the A3090 doesn't have that option. I think it was planned but then scrapped for some reason (its mentioned in the datasheet in some places).

Edited by »bst at 01:14 CDT, 8 May 2013

<< Comment #2173 @ 06:03 CDT, 8 May 2013 >>

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no_il - Reply to #2172

Are you sure about that? what about the early batches of the g400 for example? I would also want to know, since there is no thing as a mouse without any prediction/angle snapping, are you designing the mouse to have minimal prediction?

Edited by no_il at 06:07 CDT, 8 May 2013

<< Comment #2174 @ 10:03 CDT, 8 May 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2173

The old (3500 DPI) version of the A3090 had the option of prediction or not, but the new one doesn't. I can't lower the level of prediction, but its already very low.

<< Comment #2176 @ 17:37 CDT, 8 May 2013 >>

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no_il - Reply to #2174

Yea, I can understand considering the majority view mouse prediction as a flaw. Unfortunately for me, I prefer higher levels of mouse prediction/angle snapping, especially for hitscan weapons such as LG,etc.
I was really looking forward to finally having an ambidextrous optical mouse on which you could enable or even adjust the level of mouse prediction.

Perhaps by any chance do any of the older beta versions use the older version of the A3090? Could mouse prediction be enabled (or even be on by default) on of them? I would be very grateful if something could be worked out, I wouldn't mind paying extra for a custom mod either considering that if angle snapping was a feature this would probably be the ideal mouse for me.

Best of luck anyways.

Edited by no_il at 17:41 CDT, 8 May 2013

<< Comment #2177 @ 20:58 CDT, 8 May 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2176

I only ever used the 4000 DPI SROM, so unfortunately none of them can have angle snapping. Making a one-off with the old SROM would be very expensive for one mouse. I will look into it again in the future though, along with the other things people wanted.

<< Comment #2182 @ 20:44 CDT, 15 May 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.61) - Reply to #2177

I don't see why it would be expensive, it would be plain dumb.

Are you saying there is some angle snapping with the 4000 CPI SROM?

<< Comment #2187 @ 09:25 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2182

:)

Yeah, it does have some angle snapping, nowhere near as much as the 3500 DPI version though.

<< Comment #2178 @ 04:40 CDT, 10 May 2013 >>

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petejones

Any idea of when the website will be up? Would be cool even if the shop section was just "Coming Soon". Maybe an epic "About Me" section haha.

<< Comment #2179 @ 10:57 CDT, 11 May 2013 >>

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stiffnipple - Reply to #2178

Maybe next year.

<< Comment #2181 @ 03:38 CDT, 14 May 2013 >>

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jamalz

BST - whats the mouse feet gonna look like?
I think you should make them either standard shit - so you can order any feet from any place - corepad/steelseries/hyperglidez/slicksurf/qpad etc and they will fit because the feet is standard
(find 1 mouse that all of the brands have feet for and copy it for your mouse feet)

OR make your own mousefeet. Also I am interested in safetyglass/bullet proof glass as mousefeet

Would that shit wear out? And do you think icemat + glass mousefeet = uber never wear out shit?

let me know wassap

also get your website up so it can build hype.

<< Comment #2191 @ 11:08 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2181

They're the same shape as WMO feet but a bit smaller, so not a standard size unfortunately.

They're 0.5mm teflon with rounded edges, so feel like hyperglides (I changed from 1mm feet to help the sensor with focussing).

I will do a pack of 10 sets, for about $2-3, which should last ages, so don't need to worry about them wearing out too much.

But yeah I agree about making them standard shape/size. I would have done it if I could, but just wasn't possible. Something to think about when making a new shape... as long as it doesn't infringe for some reason.

Would be nice to experiment with different materials. Teflon does have the downside of being pretty soft. So yeah glass sounds good, and maybe a polished metal.

<< Comment #2194 @ 12:50 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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GreenEnemy - Reply to #2191

Near-Frictionless Carbon Films maybe =)

<< Comment #2180 @ 03:38 CDT, 14 May 2013 >>

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Anonymous (72.193.27.9)

this will be a great present for my grandson when he exists.

<< Comment #2183 @ 23:58 CDT, 15 May 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.61)

Anything about the Intellimouse Optical PCBs?

I know the original PCB can be fitted to the Wheel Mouse, but there are no side buttons.

The IMO wouldn't be that hard to do since the side buttons are on the switch board, unlike the Explorer 3, that is if you want to keep the original switches and scroll wheel.

The Explorer 3 would need a more involved PCB to make use of the side buttons.

<< Comment #2188 @ 09:41 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2183

I've got a couple of new WMOs coming. I ordered one a while ago but it was fake, so no point in modding it. But when I get the new ones I'll make a vid showing how to do it.

It is a lot harder to mod the IMO and IE3 to use the PCB, true... if people wanted some custom PCBs for them then maybe I could do it through kickstarter.

<< Comment #2185 @ 02:20 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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pussuw

I've asked this before, but when can I pre-order this ? And do you have an updated estimation on a release date, or is it still August 1st ?

By the way, for anyone interested and considering buying a Logitech G100s... Don't. The mouse is complete and utter crap:
Sensor skipping/malfunction at moderate speeds, high speeds don't register at all.
The mouse is heavy as shit, I think it has a weight inside (I think someone else verified this also).
The feet are horrible, its impossible to move the mouse on any hard surfaced mousepad, in fact, they're worse than the plastic feet on my G1.
Default DPI:s are 1000,1500,2500 (or something like that), and cannot be changed other than with the drivers, in 250 increments (no 400/800DPI).
Sensitivity keeps changing itself randomly, when using Logitech drivers and custom DPI:s (I think the mouse input is extrapolated by the Logitech Gaming Software itself on the PC side...)

The short version: Do not buy the G100s, it's way too big of an investment to try for 30minutes and then throw it out.

And for bst: Please keep us informed on how the project is going. Do not rush it, even though some people are pressuring you to do so. Finish it on your own terms and make no compromises, I personally have waited for years for a decent MX300 replacement, so a few months more will feel like nothing. You are my only hope for finding a mouse I can use for more than 30 minutes without losing my mind.

<< Comment #2186 @ 03:42 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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noctis - Reply to #2185

Are you using a hard plastic pad?
With my standard QCK heavy i haven't managed to hit the malfunction speed yet but haven't tried the sensor on hard pads or my icemat yet. It's possible that the sensor can't handle those (would hardly be the first..).

Yeah it has a weight inside, like pretty much every previous pilot shaped mouse from logitech has had but it is easy to remove. Only annoying part can be removing and reattaching the glides which covers the screw to open the mouse.
I haven't had the mouse randomly change the sensitivity yet but i have the drivers installed and disabled all but one sens profile, so its fixed at 1000dpi. I'm gonna try and uninstall the drivers once i'm home to see what happens.

All in all it is still the best mouse i have used in ages, but that's just my opinion.

<< Comment #2215 @ 02:40 CDT, 18 May 2013 >>

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pussuw - Reply to #2186

Indeed, I'm using a hard surfaced pad (SteelSeries 5L). The mice I've had, all worked better on this pad (G3 especially), so I kind of assumed that this would be a good benchmark. I have a QcK heavy somewhere laying around, maybe I'll try that for a while. The problem is, I don't like soft surface pads. I find controlling the mouse too difficult with them.

I know the weight is easy to remove. I had an Mx510 for a while and it had a weight inside, which was very easy to remove. On the G100s, you have to remove the glides to open the mouse, and removing them without ruining them is complicated if not outright impossible.

The sensitivity change is due to the nature of the mouse firmware. The default DPI levels will always work, even with the driver software. But if you put in e.g. 500DPI, extrapolation must happen somewhere in order to achieve that resolution (firmware minimum is 1000DPI).

I didn't give the mouse a fair chance by using other mousepads, since it has so many small flaws that cannot be fixed by changing a mousepad (the DPI issue being the biggest). Logitech has made a very good replacement mouse for the MX300, but I still won't use it. Its the small nuances that are the issue, and have always been. I'm using a G1 (800dpi version) for now, its the closest thing to a perfect mouse atm.

<< Comment #2189 @ 10:16 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2185

Can pre-order it really soon, I think today or tomorrow I will be getting a final sample which I can take photos of, and confirm it for the beta test. Also make a video of it which people have been waiting for. I wanted to have those things for the website/pre-orders, so everyone knows what they are ordering (and I don't have to keep re-doing things).

I don't think theres any need for more development on the mouse/sensor, as far as the performance/lod etc is concerned. I will probably work on a new firmware/sensor/mcu afterwards, if people wanted more features and options. But it makes sense to release it now, since it has the most important things people wanted.

<< Comment #2190 @ 10:35 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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mew - Reply to #2189

Did you work on the built in custom acceleration or was that just an idea?

<< Comment #2192 @ 11:22 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2190

It was just an idea, I did look into it, but it started to get complicated (to do a good job of it). Since it wasn't a priority it never got worked on. I want it for myself though so I won't forget about it. I have thought of doing it software side, because I could update the Aurora with it later, and software is much easier than trying to do it in the MCU.

<< Comment #2193 @ 11:29 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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mew - Reply to #2192

Cool. I'm also interested to see how well it would work.

<< Comment #2195 @ 13:51 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2192

I'm so horny for this right now. So just to clarify, you've achieved these features for the mouse?
-No acceleration.
-No or almost no prediction (If it's minimal, how much are we talking?).
-Perfect clicks (as good or "better" than WMO in terms of pressure needed and feedback).
-High malfunction speed (3-4 m/s and up).
-Reliably good shape (something similar to a proven shape).
-Sensor works perfectly at 1000hz.
-Low lod.
-Comfy mouse skates.

There's other features i'm looking forward to (like driver design and mouse buttons), but i'll assume that's all good. Do you definitely have these things in place though? If so, you've already made the best computer pointing tool ever.

Edited by petejones at 13:53 CDT, 16 May 2013

<< Comment #2199 @ 16:51 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2195

Yeah, those things are definitely in place.

What little prediction it has, is probably just there to keep the cursor stable for small movements. I don't think there are any mice that have zero prediction.

Btw if you want to see what the software is like, I've uploaded the user guide for it here.

<< Comment #2200 @ 16:58 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2199

Literally throwing money at the screen yet nothing happens.

<< Comment #2202 @ 17:58 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2199

wait... I know you wouldn't really do this but just to make sure because i'm not seeing the option... you can turn lights off right?
edit: whoops! I see now you can set the LED brightness to 0. Yay.

YOU HAVE DONE IT BST, NOW GIMME

Edited by petejones at 18:00 CDT, 16 May 2013

<< Comment #2216 @ 07:51 CDT, 18 May 2013 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #2199

What kind of encoder are you using for the mouse wheel again?

<< Comment #2196 @ 14:11 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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Shuki - Reply to #2189

Good to hear, my right mouse click actually broke today :(

<< Comment #2197 @ 16:16 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.62)

People think this mouse is going to be super duper awesome, it won't be. It could turn out to be a good mouse though.

A super awesome mouse needs to have its own custom sensor, mold, wheel and switches. These Ninox mice have nothing like that.

<< Comment #2198 @ 16:35 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2197

literally no one does what you described. Actually what you want is super rare on any tech product of whatever kind.

Edited by megaman3 at 16:36 CDT, 16 May 2013

<< Comment #2201 @ 17:55 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.139) - Reply to #2198

Razer is supplied unique sensors. Zowie has custom switches. Logitech has their own wheel design. Many companies have their own mold designs.

<< Comment #2204 @ 20:14 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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Anonymous (83.117.50.32) - Reply to #2201

Yes, it won't be a revolutionary product. However, proven parts will limit the risk of bugs and reliability, and will also lower the cost. Combine that with all the feedback that is put into this mouse and you could create one of the best mice out there.

<< Comment #2205 @ 20:21 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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Teen Queen ' - Reply to #2201

Razer isn't exactly known for using best sensors.

Zowie uses Huano switches which doesn't make them better in any way - if anything I've seen people switching to Omron because they didn't like the feel.

Holy shit, its own wheel design? Gotta buy more logi mice to get that nifty page scrolling technology in my hand!

tl;dr you're a fucking moron

Edited by Teen Queen at 20:22 CDT, 16 May 2013

<< Comment #2206 @ 01:16 CDT, 17 May 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.139) - Reply to #2205

It could be said if it wasn't for Razer you wouldn't have your 3090. Microsoft surely didn't want to support those sensors.

Huano switches are similar in design to the Chinese made Omrons.

People are used to Chinese Omron switches as they have been used in mice for like 10+ years. They don't want change, even if there is better switches out there. They have a very narrow perspective and they want to keep it that way.

Switches should be designed for the shell they will be used in. That is the best way to go about it. This is because the same model of switch does not feel the same in every mouse.

If you knew anything about mice you would know that a lot of these companies have been using the same stuff for about a decade. Parts that should have been improved on many times, but haven't been.

I find it moronic to advocate for using the same parts for another decade. I rather have better.

I am not a BST fanboy, but I will say he could bring out a good mouse. However, it isn't something I never seen before. That doesn't mean I won't buy a few.

<< Comment #2207 @ 01:52 CDT, 17 May 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #2206

Do you understand how much risk there is in investing in a completely new design/product? Can you not see that BST is not a 'big' company with enough funds or probable portfolio to mitigate that risk? He only has a mouse. Components picked by people who know what they want and are tried and tested. No matter how you put it, Omron is currently the most popular because it's just proven to be more comfortable in more situations than whatever Zowie and Huano are trying. Zippy are absolute crap as well, with no feedback and extremely light force actuation.

" I find it moronic to advocate for using the same parts for another decade. I rather have better."

Then suggest one. BST has been transparent from the very beginning. These components are what works. It all just works.

"However, it isn't something I never seen before"

Actually it is. That's why he's doing this. That's why it's so anticipated. Many companies have failed on the smallest nuances that are desired by this community.

<< Comment #2211 @ 16:34 CDT, 17 May 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.61) - Reply to #2207

I know BST is going the OEM route. This is why I said it won't be a super awesome mouse. How could it be when the shell is OEM? There are "better" components out there he could use, but he obviously doesn't have the money.

I not saying BST has to design his own sensor, switches, etc. What I am saying is this mouse is way over hyped for what it is. People may end up disappointed because of this hype. Let's be more realistic...

I can definitely see people complaining about the side buttons location, the wheel and its location, the crevice between the shell pieces, even the feel of the switches.

Why would people complain about the Chinese Omrons? Well, they are located in-front of the scroll wheel, this makes them feel stiffer, the shell (and the plastic used) could also make them feel even more so.

Maybe in 5 years BST can bring something a little more unique to the consumer. Hopefully, all these people saying this mouse is godlike will buy at least 4.

<< Comment #2219 @ 12:37 CDT, 18 May 2013 >>

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By

KittenIgnition - Reply to #2211

I know I'm going to buy at least two :P

<< Comment #2220 @ 14:03 CDT, 18 May 2013 >>

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By

nemecel - Reply to #2211

We just want a better wmo version to play some quake, who cares about anything else.

<< Comment #2221 @ 14:03 CDT, 18 May 2013 >>

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By

nemecel - Reply to #2211

We just want a better wmo version to play some quake, who cares about anything else.

<< Comment #2222 @ 17:39 CDT, 18 May 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (141.0.8.157) - Reply to #2221

Woops... You are already disappointed... Considering what you want. The shape of the mouse is vastly different and the 3090 does not feel/perform anything like the sensor in the Microsoft mice. Also the lowest native step is 800, whereas the Microsoft mice are in the 400 range.

<< Comment #2223 @ 17:43 CDT, 18 May 2013 >>

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By

nemecel - Reply to #2222

What are the differences? If's as solid or better, im sold. The only thing I hate about the wmo is the fact that sometimes in quake it keeps turning after a quick flick (I aim around flicking) or at micro movements it's not surgical enough.

I can always mod it and put the bst mouse hardware inside an old wmo that I dont use anymore like he did.

<< Comment #2227 @ 16:01 CDT, 19 May 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (141.0.8.157) - Reply to #2223

If the Microsoft sensor could perform at high speeds (before malfunctioning) and it could do 500/1000Hz own its own, I would rather use that sensor over the 3090. However, that is not the case.

If I am using a sensitivity that doesn't reach malfunction for the Microsoft mice, why would I use something else? When using a sensitivity that cannot be handled by the Microsoft mice the 3090 comes into play.

If you like the shape, more than you do the tracking, of the Wheel Mouse Optical, then using BST's PCB will be great for you.

To answer your question simply. The 3090 is better in some ways and in others it isn't as good.

<< Comment #2228 @ 17:12 CDT, 19 May 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2227

How is the microsoft sensor better in any way? The 3090/3050 have less prediction than the wmo, and malfunction speed on the wmo is so low that even some mid/high sens players might feel slight pos/neg accel. The lod can be even better/the same, and those sensors feel overall more "solid" than the wmo. I use a wmo mainly and like it, but it's sensor is definitely not as good as the AM's for example.

<< Comment #2208 @ 03:59 CDT, 17 May 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2206

There's never been a mouse with this set of features. There's never been a mouse that uses reliable and tested parts throughout the whole design. There's never been a mouse with a flawless sensor (Zowie's have low malfunction speed). If you think new switches need to be designed (even with that shell argument that doesn't even apply), you're stupid. If you think this mouse isn't revolutionary, you're stupid.

tl;dr you're not smart.

<< Comment #2210 @ 15:33 CDT, 17 May 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.61) - Reply to #2208

You obviously do not know how to read.

I said this mouse could be "good", but not "super awesome." Then I define what I mean by that. I also give examples of "custom" parts for reference.

You think I am hating on BST's mice when I am not. Your over zealous attitude is starting to earn you the label of "extreme fanboy."

So you consider the DeathAdder to have crappy switches, encoder and sensor?

<< Comment #2212 @ 16:53 CDT, 17 May 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2210

First of all, your definition of super awesome must be off because if this mouse is "good", then every other mouse out must be crap. All parts of the FPS community have been asking for a mouse with these features for years. NO company has achieved having all the things I listed above, despite the community asking for them specifically. The DeathAdder is crap for many reasons (no clue why you mentioned it).

And why would I care if you think i'm a "bst fanboy"?

tl;dr you're not smart.

Edited by petejones at 16:54 CDT, 17 May 2013

13%

<< Comment #2233 @ 03:30 CDT, 20 May 2013 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #2201

hi anon, all the arguments u are numbering can be answered with LARGE QUANTITIES.. ur comparing companies like Logitech,Razer etc. with several millions of private capital next to a random guy from esr, get a clue.

<< Comment #2203 @ 18:03 CDT, 16 May 2013 >>

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By

petejones - Reply to #2197

And then there's this moron.

<< Comment #2209 @ 14:07 CDT, 17 May 2013 >>

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By

STRON

I simply can't fucking wait.

I might have missed it, but how much is the shipping to Denmark?

--

STRON

Edited by STRON at 14:27 CDT, 17 May 2013

<< Comment #2213 @ 19:07 CDT, 17 May 2013 >>

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By

megaman3

ok I have an esr noob question: this says there are 2 new comments, but I can only click to read the very latest (bottom). Is there another button or way to read all new comments, without searching manually for the blue ones?

<< Comment #2214 @ 19:25 CDT, 17 May 2013 >>

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By

Teen Queen ' - Reply to #2213

In a thread with 2300 replies? Don't bother

It's probably someone spamming COOLLER or some other irrelevant shit.

<< Comment #2231 @ 18:44 CDT, 19 May 2013 >>

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By

naper - Reply to #2214

P O N I E S
O
N
I
E
S

<< Comment #2217 @ 08:11 CDT, 18 May 2013 >>

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By

koekie - Reply to #2213

Well, it's a bit cumbersome but under a post with new comments there's a link that say
"First unread comment: by date (#2177)"

Then you can click the >> arrows at the top of those comments to go to the next comment that was posted chronologically.

I prefer scrolling/hunting for blue ones since they give easier context for the replies.

14%

<< Comment #2238 @ 13:49 CDT, 23 May 2013 >>

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By

zealot - Reply to #2217

arrows save esr.

<< Comment #2218 @ 09:52 CDT, 18 May 2013 >>

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By

T1E - Reply to #2213

ctrl-f "#2216"
ctrl-f "#2217"
ctrl-f "#2215"

that's how I do it anyway

<< Comment #2224 @ 10:35 CDT, 19 May 2013 >>

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By

cumrag - Reply to #2218

noob

<< Comment #2226 @ 13:30 CDT, 19 May 2013 >>

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By

T1E - Reply to #2224

seems like it :D

<< Comment #2239 @ 13:50 CDT, 23 May 2013 >>

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By

zealot - Reply to #2218

omg :D

<< Comment #2225 @ 11:01 CDT, 19 May 2013 >>

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By

eMbAh

So.... Is it done soon?

<< Comment #2229 @ 18:41 CDT, 19 May 2013 >>

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By

boule3d

when will the mouse be released?

<< Comment #2230 @ 18:42 CDT, 19 May 2013 >>

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By

boule3d

btw, why are some computer not working with 1000hz as said in mouse drivers??? and how to fix it?

<< Comment #2232 @ 00:55 CDT, 20 May 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (141.0.9.59) - Reply to #2230

Buy a new computer. Get a better CPU and motherboard.

<< Comment #2234 @ 12:15 CDT, 20 May 2013 >>

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By

Sopsy - Reply to #2230

Why do you exactly want 1000hz? The difference between 500hz and 1000hz is nowhere as big as from 125/250hz to 500hz.

<< Comment #2235 @ 06:06 CDT, 22 May 2013 >>

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By

Tsubaki - Reply to #2234

theres still a difference

<< Comment #2236 @ 19:23 CDT, 22 May 2013 >>

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By

petejones

Did you manage to keep the 65g weight? How does it feel in comparison with a WMO? How do the switches feel in comparison with a WMO (from all hand positions)?

<< Comment #2237 @ 12:25 CDT, 23 May 2013 >>

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By

blueslobster

bst, could you please check your Private Messages on Overclock.net? :P

<< Comment #2240 @ 14:04 CDT, 23 May 2013 >>

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By

Ffleri

oh man, i even forgot about this already... like it's never gonna be released.

at first i was like i can wait for it whatever time it takes, but now i really want u to hurry, real

<< Comment #2242 @ 16:14 CDT, 26 May 2013 >>

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By

petejones

looks like a dry spell where bst doesnt say anything for a month...

<< Comment #2243 @ 16:53 CDT, 26 May 2013 >>

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By

Shuki - Reply to #2242

What does he need to say? He already said it will most likely be released in August give or take 15 days.

<< Comment #2246 @ 12:13 CDT, 30 May 2013 >>

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By

petejones - Reply to #2243

"I think today or tomorrow I will be getting a final sample which I can take photos of, and confirm it for the beta test. Also make a video of it which people have been waiting for. I wanted to have those things for the website/pre-orders, so everyone knows what they are ordering (and I don't have to keep re-doing things)." - bst 2 weeks ago

<< Comment #2244 @ 14:16 CDT, 29 May 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (115.64.146.129)

why no kickstarter or indiegogo page?

<< Comment #2245 @ 18:43 CDT, 29 May 2013 >>

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By

Tsubaki - Reply to #2244

cuz hardly anyone cares except small parts of quake/competitive gaming crowd

<< Comment #2247 @ 08:00 CDT, 1 June 2013 >>

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By

jamalz

Yo bst I got a special idea for ya.

remember when you come out with your mouse don't price it too low, casuals always think low price = junk

so it's gotta be $$$

however for us esreality/teamliquid/overclock.net/league of legends webforum(who the fuck knows what it is) users they can get a discount. when they enter in their user name for those gaming sites it verifies it somehow and gives a discount. (doesnt stack)

this means that your TARGET audience is going to come to you directly. Also means the gaming websites will be populated more and have a ton of buzz about your mouse that is targeted to gamers.

ppl will be making posts on all these gaming sites/reddit and so forth about the cool coupon.

Now your shit is LEGIT boss. Everyone coming at you from all gaming sites.

Make sure this shit is a limited time offer. (at least at first) so people need to spread the news.

This is how you enchant people to buy your brand and get recognized lightning quick.

<< Comment #2248 @ 09:00 CDT, 1 June 2013 >>

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By

ja ja ve ve - Reply to #2247

actually smart.

<< Comment #2249 @ 13:38 CDT, 1 June 2013 >>

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By

KittenIgnition - Reply to #2247

Actually genius.

<< Comment #2250 @ 13:46 CDT, 1 June 2013 >>

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By

Nzr0 ' - Reply to #2247

now I know you're a jew pretending to be black

nice idea

Edited by Nzr0 at 13:47 CDT, 1 June 2013

<< Comment #2251 @ 14:08 CDT, 1 June 2013 >>

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Teen Queen ' - Reply to #2247

See, this guy is on probation while hitsu is roaming free.

mods get to work.

<< Comment #2252 @ 14:32 CDT, 1 June 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2247

In-house online sales (ninox.com) are marginal compared to store (best buy) and big online retailer (amazon) sales, for every type of 'gamer'. That means it matters way more to compete against the big names price-wise (what you see in the store or list) than recondite internet discounts.

Also there are some particularities about this market, which are gamers are cheap though brand loyal people, with some degree of preferences, but for the vast majority prices are still of the essence. It's better to compete with the abyssus than against the deathadder 2013, and the 'hardcore gamers' (us) will buy the products anyway no matter a lunch money difference.

Puretrak essentially did what you propose. Can't say if it worked out or not, but certain thing is they aren't SS or Razer. They are more of a footnote than a headline.
It's best to follow successful examples that started on similar grounds and offer similar products, such as zowie (current) and logitech (years ago), in this and most cases what should be done is targeting a market as wide as possible -what you want is casuals, not what you propose-, and by reading your proposition I think you are not realizing more than half his sales are going to be outside the US, which is precisely where that business strategy is used on online shopping.

Edited by megaman3 at 15:02 CDT, 1 June 2013

<< Comment #2253 @ 16:03 CDT, 1 June 2013 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #2252

dood i already had him handle the 'real' casuals by naming the mouse 'aurora', having it make cute lights and see through bottom part that looks cool.

I mean it can be stylin for a normal person but it also functions as a gaming mouse.

by 'casuals' in my above post I mean random scrubs. I see these guys buying razer naga and orb weaver and garbage products for $$$ thinking it will making them god or something

shits fucking horrid but costs a ton, in their mind high price = high ownage

so gotta price it pretty well.

you know when i see shit like E-blue cobra that looks amazing but has a really low price? I think its gotta be a shit mouse and just pass on it. I mean if it was $40 I might be interested.

good things aren't cheap and cheap things are rarely good.

(don't forget my free mouse bst, hook a brotha up)

<< Comment #2254 @ 16:57 CDT, 1 June 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2253

cheap things sell more and are more attractive to casual gamers. The razer mamba is not what it's paying the bills.

<< Comment #2255 @ 07:08 CDT, 3 June 2013 >>

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By

ybl

could u make different shapes, like the g9x, where u can change the size of the mouse?

what about 3d printing?

<< Comment #2256 @ 11:33 CDT, 3 June 2013 >>

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By

Plaisi - Reply to #2255

>3d printing

<< Comment #2292 @ 19:13 CDT, 23 June 2013 >>

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By

»bst - Reply to #2256

Hahah n1 :D

<< Comment #2257 @ 15:04 CDT, 4 June 2013 >>

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By

Qiwen

It looks really like i-rocks 7810L. I have this mouse, perfect shape but
bad sensor. Expect your mouse!

<< Comment #2258 @ 14:08 CDT, 5 June 2013 >>

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By

oneroomdisco

eta?

<< Comment #2259 @ 22:32 CDT, 5 June 2013 >>

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By

pet_cia_mole

Fucking christ, WHEN WILL YOUR MICE BE AVAILABLE?

<< Comment #2260 @ 02:05 CDT, 6 June 2013 >>

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By

steffo - Reply to #2259

http://esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gaming-...pid2419136
http://esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gaming-...pid2426829
please learn to read before posting, thread is already huge.

Edited by steffo at 02:07 CDT, 6 June 2013

<< Comment #2261 @ 03:44 CDT, 6 June 2013 >>

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By

Rothaarig3

German: watch a german Website & HW Magazine visiting the Logitech factory & Innovation Center
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z39JddtdREo&hd=1

<< Comment #2263 @ 05:21 CDT, 9 June 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (90.2.101.38)

Basicaly after watching this and the link inside the thread http://www.esreality.com/post/2432628/logitec...bout-mice/ the feeling i had before about this project was more clear. I realised that optical mice are realy a very sofisticated and complex thing.

Basicaly what the user BST is trying to create is nothing more than something that already exist, assembling different parts together.

In a sens i had a bit too much expectations about all BST's project i guess. In a sens was expecting him to test and create some awesome and different new shape for the mouse, new sensor position that would give a better tracking and comfort... Taking in concideration the idea to create an insanely light mouse etc etc etc. If you look at profesional bicycle you will see the shapes are so diferent from random bikes, and the weight/material used are realy different. I would like to see in a near futur mice that ar designed realy for maximum efficiency which is absolutly not the case as of now. WMO mouse from 20 years ago is still better than 99% of the mice sold nowaday. And all the compagnies i saw during theese decades so many small to large compagnies pretending to make mice specificaly designed for max efficiency aka for gamers (for gamers by gamers hello steelseries and razer bullshit) but i am sorry i have to say this, there is nothing new in your project, that is disapointing.

BST admited himself he doesn't have access and knowledge to modify the SROM. The mouse shape he decided to use already exist.

All in all the final product will not be the mouse everyone is talking about in this forum. People are realy going to far here.

Still i am going to have an eye at it, not gonna buy that for sure. But if he decide to take a look at making some realy deeply thought shapes and test out sensor position then the futur miht be brighter.

Good luck to BST nontheless i think he is trying to make a decent product. Hope it doesn't turn out to be another deja vu.

<< Comment #2264 @ 16:46 CDT, 9 June 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2263

People like you are the funniest in this thread by far. Were WAY past you. We know his parts technically exist in other mice. But his sensor has been customized by the company he's making the mouse with to eliminate any tracking problem with it. Then he's taking everything else that is GOOD about current design. So whether your retarded self understands it or not, if it all works correctly, he'll have made the best mouse available right now (by far), and probably the best gaming mouse ever built thus far.

<< Comment #2267 @ 01:35 CDT, 10 June 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.156) - Reply to #2264

They are just messing with the firmware, that is nothing special, there is more to tracking than that.

Also the factory he is using has not made a 3090 before. Which means it can turn out to be crap. Having it take this long is an indicator of this.

You are just a fanboy of a product that isn't real. Delusional...

<< Comment #2268 @ 02:02 CDT, 10 June 2013 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #2267

Anon, ehelo)

1st ure french

2nd
What you fail to realise and the "gaming effective" companies is that peripheral such as mouse should strive for naturalness.You see these same companies that youre numbering like Razer,SS and what not, every now and then releasing a new product.It doesent matter how its shaped and what it is as long as its following in these specific time intervals.Because theire in the first place a profit company and after that, they need some more profit.. maybe theres some sad guy hidden in the end in their basement that actually puts these products together, but thats another story.You see a product is interesting only when it makes a sufficient money income.As soon as this income starts dropping there is a need for a new product that will boost up the company profit again on the level it was before.So the result are products aimed at 12y old kiddies that their moms buy anyways with 100x buttonz and flashy leds shaped like some STAR WARS piece of brick.To sum my thoughts up.. a mouse should be like a perfect sound reproduction, you do not add any additional distortion to it, you try to avoid passive components as much as possible to avoid coloration of the sound etc.With mouse you do the same, you do not change the natural shell of it, you do not put 10x buttons to it, you do not put the crap adjustable weight etcetc.
So you see how can you judge something that you havent tried in the first place french dumbfuck??

<< Comment #2269 @ 02:23 CDT, 10 June 2013 >>

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Anonymous (90.2.101.38) - Reply to #2268

yeah 1st he is french OMG!!!

poor guy.

<< Comment #2270 @ 02:34 CDT, 10 June 2013 >>

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By

megaman3 - Reply to #2269

So you see how can you judge something that you havent tried in the first place french dumbfuck??

<< Comment #2271 @ 03:30 CDT, 10 June 2013 >>

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By

winz - Reply to #2268

Yeah, it's pretty much as smart as judging someone based on where he is from, duh?

<< Comment #2273 @ 07:02 CDT, 10 June 2013 >>

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By

Eviili - Reply to #2271

baguettes and french fries are overrated, thx!

<< Comment #2274 @ 13:06 CDT, 10 June 2013 >>

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By

lemming#13 - Reply to #2273

Whenever I visited this thread I felt like this wasn't ESR. Almost. Wheww, glad this is over!

<< Comment #2272 @ 06:29 CDT, 10 June 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2267

rofl. do you think sensors are just made and produced without even testing it? do you honestly think that bst, a long time quake player, isn't at least aware of what qualities a sensor should have? do you think he would release it without the acceptance from professionals (gamers and hardware tweakers)? the fact that you think you're smarter than this whole thing is precisely what makes you stupid.

<< Comment #2265 @ 17:10 CDT, 9 June 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2263

Lets use your wmo example:
- Didn't feature a new awesome shape.
- Same sensor as in other three of their products.
- Very cheap materials, used in everything.
- Made for office usage, not "maximum gaming efficiency".
- Doesn't get more average than that.
= yet it still rocked.

You can still see this in what are considered to be the best mice for gaming on the market right now: the g400 uses a shape that has like 10 years, zowie and logitech use sensors that anyone can buy though are fined tuned by those companies (like bst's), they don't build nor design their materials (shape, sensor, feet) but buy them from companies that specialize on that and so on. Also, when you buy a bike for competing what you do is assembling parts, precisely bought and fine tuned to suit your needs.

What matters is how good the product is (for the price), not the philosophy behind it. Sure the frictionless mice project is new, but it sucks just as bad as extreme lightness does in mice. If the bought materials are good then there's absolutely no problem in using them.

What are you going to buy then? Literally everyone on the business does what you criticize, on all technology related products. That's how the chain of production works, especially nowadays that everything is outsourced and mass produced. Logitech is a final product company, not a mice sensor developer.
It's odd finding any final product (mice itself) that's really created 100% from scratch at the factory: I don't think there's anything like that in tech nowadays. Most probably there isn't a single mouse that is like that ever made, for any usage, and most probably you don't own anything that shares your views. Sorry but that's how the world works.

What makes this project special is that, by the time of the announcement, it truly was the first mouse aimed at competent gamers (not 12yo kids), built by competent gamers and tested extensively by them, all in a moment when there were zero mice that could be considered ideal (wmo, abyssus, old logitechs aren't). After these two years things have changed, now that there are two companies that offer mice that can be considered to be close to perfection and do focus at people that go beyond stickers and leds..
I'm writing this last paragraph so you see why people like this project: it was the wmo replacement before there was nothing comparable.

Edited by megaman3 at 17:40 CDT, 9 June 2013

<< Comment #2266 @ 00:05 CDT, 10 June 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (90.2.101.38) - Reply to #2265

I apreciate your answer greatly. I think you are right about all the points you stated. Btw i wissh if his compagnie grow he will try completly new shapes and sensor position :)

-Sphex.

<< Comment #2275 @ 17:20 CDT, 10 June 2013 >>

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By

Ffleri - Reply to #2265

it still rocks*

<< Comment #2276 @ 13:53 CDT, 15 June 2013 >>

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By

plopinou

Any news ? The last post from bst is from exactly 1 month ago.
A release for august the 1st seems a lot less likely when we were supposed to already have the website up and given feedback from the final sample (received 4 weeks ago).

Like a lot of other people, I've been silently following this topic for a long time, but those sudden disappearences are getting a bit irritating.

Well good luck in your initiative anyway.

<< Comment #2277 @ 00:33 CDT, 16 June 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2276

I really hope he shows up soon with something big... this is pretty disheartening.

<< Comment #2278 @ 02:07 CDT, 16 June 2013 >>

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By

jamalz - Reply to #2277

i've seen you play, no fucking magical mouse is going to help you play better because you're worse than cooloutac

just chill the fuck out

this isn't some random endeavor, he's not making 1 mouse and then going to disappear into obscurity, he's trying to build a company to go toe to toe with razer/steelseries, show up zowie/puretrak and satisfy all the gamers that are sick and tired of shitty 7000 DPI LASER mice with 20 buttons and shit.

he's got the hype BUILT.

HE NOW NEEDS TO PRODUCE.

If the product is fucking bad, 3 years hype is fucking gone. 3 years of expectations of an amazing product. 3 years of his work, 3 years of his money, 3 years of his time.

ALL GONE IN A BLINK OF AN EYE.

You fucking lazy scrubs need to back the fuck up, sit the fuck down, and wait patiently.

LET THE MAN HANDLE HIS BUSINESS.

<< Comment #2280 @ 02:24 CDT, 16 June 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2278

Damn you really destroyed me bro... you even called me bad.

Get a clue retard. Go back to playing checkers with the neighbors kid instead of acting like you know how to start a business. Let the smart people talk. I want this mouse for a variety of reasons, and if you think bst is perfectly justified for not saying anything at all (after he said he would), you're even more of a bst fanboy than me.
EDIT: btw you're pricing idea sucks.

p.s. i love you bst i'm just antsy.

Edited by petejones at 04:31 CDT, 16 June 2013

<< Comment #2282 @ 10:38 CDT, 16 June 2013 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #2280

you're a 'hanger on'. Like that turd that falls out of my ass but hangs on to my ass hair.

You didn't give any help to the mouse, just 'gimme gimme gimme'

fucking childish attitude.

You demand shit from him? He doesn't owe you a fucking thing son.

This is a fucking gaming website, you aren't a fucking investor or stock holder.

What in the fuck is your problem? I'd rather it be done good and properly than half assed.

Did you now know about puretrak valor? Shit was going exactly like BSTs mouse. Information from the community, super hype and then the end result is a garbage fucking mouse, rushed out because of people like you putting pressure on them to release it.

<< Comment #2283 @ 10:40 CDT, 16 June 2013 >>

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By

end0rphine - Reply to #2282

Don't mention puretrak valor. I still have mine. From the first shipment. That was a disaster.. A mouse that didn't have proper DPI steps...

<< Comment #2285 @ 19:54 CDT, 16 June 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2282

LOL. You don't even know what you're talking about anymore. Lay of the stuff bro, you're losing it.

<< Comment #2279 @ 02:07 CDT, 16 June 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (69.140.238.34)

Just found out about this recently and it sounds like my dream mouse. Hope the preorders can go up soon :)

<< Comment #2281 @ 07:33 CDT, 16 June 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (80.129.57.158)

they wont.
this will not be released in 2013!
trust me, remember those words.

and btw. running business? who the fuck would not try to post as much as possible, make advertisements, answer questions etc?
thats how you get customers. not the way bst does.

not even his shitty site is up yet...i mean...what the fuck?!
not even a fucking site with some pics and infos? U TRIPPIN MATE?

<< Comment #2284 @ 12:58 CDT, 16 June 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (95.154.230.254)

W M O
M
O

<< Comment #2286 @ 12:19 CDT, 17 June 2013 >>

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By

Tsubaki

could i put this pcb in a zowie-fk?
i hate the huano switches, dpi steps, lack of drivers and bad sidebuttons but the shape is amazing
i'd also like to attempt to make it lighter

<< Comment #2287 @ 10:54 CDT, 18 June 2013 >>

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By

Qiwen

Any news?

<< Comment #2288 @ 14:38 CDT, 20 June 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (80.129.57.158)

as i said... there will be no news.
bst is trying to sit this out again, is that what you should do when you want to make customers not haters?! i dont think so.

this mouse will not be released in 2013, and im sick of waiting for this idiot to come up with a new bla bla bla post and a new release date that will also be bullshit again.

bst you should just admit that and stop with this kind of "marketing"
be true to us and if you wanna run a company, then fucking inform ur future customers and act like a salesman and not like watevr this should look like now.

<< Comment #2289 @ 22:40 CDT, 20 June 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2288

you're kinda rude about it, but right.

Edited by petejones at 22:40 CDT, 20 June 2013

<< Comment #2295 @ 19:35 CDT, 23 June 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2288

Its harder than you think, its not like I have a bag of answers I can just reach in and grab one... The final stages of development were really tricky! Its hard to post news, when I myself am not sure what will happen. This is just the reality of a tiny company competing for time and effort of a factory which has customers which are huge. Its hard, really! To the point where its even hard to say _why_ its hard :(

Its been really rough, I know, but it done now, so I really doubt your prophecy will come true, and it will be released in 2013 :) Hope that makes you feel a bit better, and btw I am not offended by you, I understand how you feel because I've felt the same recently too.

<< Comment #2290 @ 17:26 CDT, 23 June 2013 >>

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By

mew

Bst, if you're still thinking about doing the Quake 3 mouse acceleration, I think you might be interested in this.

http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/5067/1

It's a software that adds Q3 acceleration in windows mouse input. I just tried it in CPMA and Battlefield 3, works perfectly with both games. Screwed up my Logitech drivers tho, but in a good way so it doesn't matter.

<< Comment #2293 @ 19:19 CDT, 23 June 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2290

Wow, how cool is that! Thanks for letting me know about it :)
I think I could add this pretty easily, after release (don't want it to slow things down now). Thanks again.

<< Comment #2298 @ 22:02 CDT, 23 June 2013 >>

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mew - Reply to #2293

The creator comments that mice that have built in drivers etc. seem to work fine, because there aren't drivers on the PC messing things up. Aurora has internal stuff after the initial install, right? So I would assume it works fine with it. This is pretty cool stuff indeed!

<< Comment #2299 @ 02:38 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2298

Yeah it should work fine, even with the software installed, the mouse still uses the standard windows driver.

I'm installing it now, I'll let you know how it goes :)

<< Comment #2301 @ 03:21 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2298

I've now tested it on the Aurora and it works perfectly :))

<< Comment #2314 @ 17:29 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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mew - Reply to #2301

Awesome!

<< Comment #2324 @ 04:32 CDT, 25 June 2013 >>

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By

pvh - Reply to #2290

Hey I'm the guy who wrote that accel driver thing. Been following this mouse development quite keenly since the start. If bst needs anything regarding this driver I am willing to help to the best of my limited ability

<< Comment #2325 @ 06:51 CDT, 25 June 2013 >>

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mew - Reply to #2324

That's great, man! Send him a private message here so he knows you're available. He said he was able to get it working with Ninox Aurora perfectly already.

<< Comment #2326 @ 07:15 CDT, 25 June 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2324

Thats really nice of you, thanks!
And thanks for making it too :)

<< Comment #2291 @ 19:10 CDT, 23 June 2013 >>

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»bst

Sorry I haven't updated in a long while, things were really up and down and I didn't know what to say, except it was delayed. TBH I got fed up with the whole thing, just like everyone else probably is, because I thought its never going to happen, or it wasn't going to be as good as I hoped. Hard to explain really, but it doesn't matter much anymore, because... dun dun dun... its finished!

Aside from a few gimmicks I wanted at the start, its everything I asked for, and what people wanted. So I've gone from being fed up to happy :)

I'm just making this a quick post so people know its going really well now. I'll post more really soon, and confirm all the specs. I should have some samples at the end of the month which will be sent out to some gamers/reviewers, so you can see it from a more independent perspective ;)

I'll just confirm some of the most important specs:
DPI steps and max speeds: 400 @ 5m/s, 800 @ 5m/s, 1600 @ 3.5m/s, 3200 @ 2m/s, 4000 @ 2m/s.
LOD: 1.5-2mm
Angle snapping: off

Of course they still have to be certified and made, but the software being finished is a big step.

Again I am truly sorry for not keeping regular updates, and if I have missed one of your PMs. I've been ridiculously busy and also like I said, fed up, because I haven't been able to give people straight answers.

I still need to find some things out, so I can give some reliable dates, thats why this is just a quick post, I'll do a much better (and more official) one as soon as I can.

Thanks to those still interested. And I understand some people are really angry with me. All I can say is sorry. But now the software is over with, things should go a _lot_ more smoothly!

51%

<< Comment #2294 @ 19:24 CDT, 23 June 2013 >>

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By

Teen Queen ' - Reply to #2291

Finally an update \o/

<< Comment #2296 @ 19:38 CDT, 23 June 2013 >>

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By

eMbAh - Reply to #2291

Nice

<< Comment #2297 @ 20:49 CDT, 23 June 2013 >>

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By

end0rphine - Reply to #2291

Holy shit..
It happened...

<< Comment #2300 @ 03:18 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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CENEk - Reply to #2291

When you do, please make a news post that can be majored, or at least a new thread, since this is becoming way too big.

A news post/new thread would give you a clean slate =)

edit: needless to say, I will buy your mouse as soon as I can!

Edited by CENEk at 03:20 CDT, 24 June 2013

<< Comment #2305 @ 04:28 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2300

Good idea, I'll do that :)
Thanks :)

<< Comment #2302 @ 04:05 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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ashy - Reply to #2291

wonderful news, thanks a lot for you work.

could you please estimate the time needed before i can buy one?

<< Comment #2303 @ 04:11 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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steffo - Reply to #2302

guess 1st august still stands.
http://esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gaming-...pid2419136

<< Comment #2304 @ 04:26 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2302

"I still need to find some things out, so I can give some reliable dates, thats why this is just a quick post"

I doubt it will be the 1st of August, because as usual the software changes took way longer than I wanted, even with talking to the factory about it every day. But it shouldn't be too far off. Up until this point no release date I have said is official, because the software development has been so unpredictable... its been guess work, but I am doing my best, now that the software is finished, to get a concrete release date. I'm really hoping this week I can get one and put up the pre-orders shortly after.

<< Comment #2353 @ 07:05 CDT, 18 July 2013 >>

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Qiwen - Reply to #2304

Do you get one almost 4 weeks later?

<< Comment #2306 @ 08:04 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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By

croaton - Reply to #2291

Sad that 1600 dpi only goes up to 3.5 m/s. I'm assuming this is max perfect control speed? How does it malfunction, does it stop or just slight neg accel?

Still getting one though :D

<< Comment #2307 @ 08:55 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2306

Its just some very slight negative accel, its hard to notice. I've never once had it properly malfunction (eg stop or suddenly look at the ceiling/floor), even if I move it as fast as I can at 4000 DPI. I don't think its possible to get any more performance from the A3090, this is just about the best it has to offer ;)

Edited by »bst at 09:01 CDT, 24 June 2013

<< Comment #2308 @ 10:12 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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Petru - Reply to #2306

No point to have more than 2m/s pcs with 1600 dpi or more.
With 1 sensitivity in-game its medium-high sens, you wont hit such high speeds.

<< Comment #2310 @ 13:02 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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croaton - Reply to #2308

Who are you to tell me what I do and don't!

:D

<< Comment #2315 @ 18:12 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.78) - Reply to #2306

Likely because of the MCU that was used. It could have been better.

I know that 2m/s is to low, 3m/s is decent, 4m/s is perfect.

I guess this mouse has become a 800/1600 CPI mouse. I would use it on 800 with 1000Hz if I were you.

I cannot say this mouse is better than most available 3090 mice today. I guess you can compare it to a Zowie and a G400.

I wonder if BST would do PCBs for the Intellimouse but with a better MCU. Probably not, because that would cost more to use different components... To bad...

I was expecting all the components and firmware to be great. That way he can just use that setup in many different PCBs/shells. Doesn't look like that happened...

Maybe in like 5 years when he makes enough money he can make a better mouse with his own mold. Unless someone else comes around in that amount of time and offers something special.... ;)

<< Comment #2316 @ 18:45 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2315

Wow, so pessimistic :)
- I've seen the A3090 used with much more powerful & expensive MCUs, it still hits the same bottleneck.
- The PCB fits inside a WMO pretty easily (already done it)
- I've already designed new shapes, it doesn't take that long to make a new mold, and overall its not really any problem at all.

Hope that makes you feel better!

<< Comment #2317 @ 18:50 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2316

The only sad part is the mouse is not going to be released for my birthday. Try to hit cooller's.

Edited by megaman3 at 18:50 CDT, 24 June 2013

<< Comment #2319 @ 20:31 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.78) - Reply to #2316

Before you make a new mold you should ask for user opinions about the design. When designers don't consult players they end up making silly shapes that are more for marketing.

There is more to the design -- not just shape.

From what I have seen, when you get a huge drop off at higher CPI steps is because the MCU cannot handle that many counts.

<< Comment #2323 @ 02:44 CDT, 25 June 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2319

What I have designed are function over form but still look really nice imo. I guess you're talking about balance, feel of the switches, positioning of switches, weight, etc. Trust me I don't want to release mice which look good but aren't. Like in an RPG, I adjust the sliders: maximum usability/comfort etc, then I take whats left and spend it on looks, instead of the other way round.

From what I have seen, when you get a huge drop off at higher CPI steps is because the MCU cannot handle that many counts.

How did you come to that conclusion?

From what I know, the A3090 is based on the A3060, which was an 800 DPI sensor, so its really stretching the technology. That is essentially why 4000 DPI has slower max tracking speeds, its using a different (more complex) tracking algorithm to attain it, so naturally gets different results. I don't think theres much you can do about it at the MCU level. You can get the most out of it with well written firmware, but you can't improve it there.

<< Comment #2309 @ 10:29 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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zb0t - Reply to #2291

Good to hear, also, don't be sorry about anything you don't owe anyone anything.

<< Comment #2311 @ 13:13 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2291

YAY, I knew i'd feel bad about complaining once you updated again... so excited!

Edited by petejones at 13:15 CDT, 24 June 2013

<< Comment #2339 @ 05:05 CDT, 27 June 2013 >>

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groparoo - Reply to #2291

I'll buy it as well! Good luck and keep calm bro, we trust you and great things worth waiting for ;)

<< Comment #2312 @ 13:46 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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Anonymous (84.139.39.39)

well thats finally some news atleast, though still absolutely no valid data tbfh.
"things going well" is kinda relative same goes for "soon".

JUST GIVE US A DATE OR ATLEAST A DATE RANGE!
like September 1.- 15th of October etc.

would maybe get some trust back.

as long as there is no valid data behind all the fog i still doubt that this is gonna be released in 2013. maybe december if we are lucky but thats it.

<< Comment #2313 @ 15:52 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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Teen Queen ' - Reply to #2312

A more thorough answer on release date here: http://www.esreality.com/post/2429650/n-a/#pid2439783

<< Comment #2318 @ 19:18 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #2313

I'm guessing he already read that before posting, but still demands a date.

<< Comment #2328 @ 09:26 CDT, 25 June 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2312

Haha I like how you talk as if your logic is perfect and is reality until your conditions are met. It's amusing.

Edited by petejones at 09:26 CDT, 25 June 2013

<< Comment #2320 @ 21:06 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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By

SightUp

How long is the mouse going to be?

<< Comment #2321 @ 21:35 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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ProT ' - Reply to #2320

Aurora: 117.5mm
Velocity: 118mm

<< Comment #2322 @ 23:04 CDT, 24 June 2013 >>

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SightUp

Darn. I will not be getting it. Way to small.

<< Comment #2330 @ 10:49 CDT, 25 June 2013 >>

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By

menancewhite

What are the chances of getting the Aurora with a different shell?

Here's my thoughts:

First, there's the indentations running along the body - what are they for, are they because the shell is in separate parts? Because as of now they only looks like dirtcatchers where stuff gets stuck and is a pain to keep clean.

Secondly, there's the "material" for the shell.
Glossy top shell: good grip when cleaned, but can quickly get greasy oh and skin and stuff from your hand tends to stick onto it which means that it'll need regular cleaning

Rubber Coat top shell: worse grip than glossy, but doesn't get dirty as quick but will wear our faster from heavy use. It's also a pain to clean if you don't have water or some sort of liquid around.

What I'd prefer is a paintless single piece semi-matte "sanded" top shell like on the WMO/IMO or current IBM/Lenovo office computer mouse.(will post a pic later) They feel good to run your hand over, doesn't wear out as fast and they don't get greasy/shitty as fast as the glossy top.

For the side, it should be glossy instead of sanded just for the max grip for the thumb/pinkie when lifting the mouse. Bottom doesn't really matter.

Oh and preferably without the fancy glowing LEDs and whatnot you could call it the pro edition, people might buy into that

<< Comment #2331 @ 11:12 CDT, 25 June 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2330

FUCK having glossy ANYWHERE on a mouse. The "sanded" style you're talking about that the WMO has is far better in every way. Also, rubber grips aren't all the same, and certainly can be good.
Just my two cents.

<< Comment #2335 @ 09:31 CDT, 26 June 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2330

- There will be more shells later, that use the same sensor as the Aurora, but the Aurora is the first one. Later shells won't have any indentations.

- I never had a problem with the indentations collecting dirt, and I haven't been trying not to :D Cleaning it is easy, I just use some multi-purpose office wipes, takes about 10 seconds.

- I'll look into a grainy top shell for new mice, but it is 'better' to make it glossy from a manufacturing point of view, because then it can also be painted or rubber coated, which is much harder to do if its grainy.

- LEDs can be turned off 100% in the software (the sensor LED is invisible (infra red), so its completely without visible light if you turn the LEDs off).

Thanks for your thoughts :)

<< Comment #2336 @ 12:14 CDT, 26 June 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2335

It would be cool to have a better type of rubber coating (something like the G400 but maybe grippier) so that you can just have coated and glossy versions to satisfy everyone. Though I personally wouldn't like that thick rubber coating everywhere like the AM and Deathadder. Kinda slippery on the fingers when fully dry. Aurora's current design might be perfect though.

<< Comment #2344 @ 15:46 CDT, 8 July 2013 >>

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menancewhite - Reply to #2335

good to know, I hope the shape is kept since I quite like the diamondback shape

also hoping that the thumb buttons arent too high up

<< Comment #2327 @ 08:09 CDT, 25 June 2013 >>

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By

petejones

What's the final weight for the Aurora?
and can you describe what the rubber coating feels like a bit? Is it thick like a Deathadder? or thin like a G400?

Edited by petejones at 11:31 CDT, 25 June 2013

<< Comment #2334 @ 09:07 CDT, 26 June 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2327

- 71 grams.
- I don't own a DA but I own a G400, its not like the G400, its "thicker". It also feels more dry, if that makes sense? It gets grippier with a bit of sweat (does for me anyway). The sides are grainy like a WMO.

<< Comment #2338 @ 00:43 CDT, 27 June 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2334

Did that problem where the side button gets clicked if the side of the mouse is pushed ever get fixed? Seemed like a sad thing to hurt the mouse :/

What does the shape feel like in comparison to a WMO (sorry if this has been asked already)?

<< Comment #2340 @ 15:20 CDT, 30 June 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.140) - Reply to #2338

It feels nothing like a WMO or IMO. More like a Diamondback.

<< Comment #2341 @ 16:59 CDT, 30 June 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2340

uh... have you used the mouse or a mouse with that exact shape? available ones are very obscure and it basically looks like a bigger mx300 (which i've never used). i kinda doubt its very much like a diamondback.

Edited by petejones at 17:03 CDT, 30 June 2013

<< Comment #2343 @ 05:34 CDT, 2 July 2013 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #2341

He could possibly be a beta tester. An old version was shipped out almost a year ago (?).

<< Comment #2329 @ 10:49 CDT, 25 June 2013 >>

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menancewhite

http://plonq.org/up/51c99bff07588.jpg
here's a pic of what I mentioned in the previous post

<< Comment #2332 @ 16:54 CDT, 25 June 2013 >>

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Anonymous (220.233.31.197)

I hope that the back of the box/marketing stuff gets excited about a mouse that does not malfunction at speed. In addition I hope it also says a little about the benefits of playing lower sens, and then tie the two together.

Because while this site is interested in the mouse, getting more mainstream people interested is surely better. None of the competing mice really do it. The lower end steelseries and zowie still rant about their DPI, number of buttons and whatnot, just like the high end razer gear. You can't compete on those points and you don’t want to anyway.

And getting more mainstream people interested includes reviewers on hardware sites. Most mice reviews are a waste of time, take this opportunity to educate them a little :D

Lets look at how the kana and Zowie AM.

---------------------
kana
- In size, features, and buttons the Kana is more than a Kinzu and not quite a Sensei.
- Scalable pointer speed up 3200 in increments of 400, 800, 1600 and 3200 CPI.*
- Mouse 1.1 is the SteelSeries Kana. You chose its design, now it’s ready to play.
- Ambidextrously placed side button on each side of the mouse.
- Scroll wheel LED intensity can be assigned to indicate which CPI profile is enabled.
- Improved durability and tangle-free via its double braided nylon cord.
- CPI toggle for on-the-fly high/low sensitivity adjustments.
- Program your buttons, optimize your sensitivity, and create unlimited profiles.

*This does not make sense, the increments are not 400/800/1600/3200. This would imply you can set the mouse to 1200 DPI which is not the case.
---------------------
Zowie AM
- Ambidextrous mouse developed by legendary CS-player Abdisamad ‘SpawN’ Mohamed
- Two thumb buttons on both sides to comfortably serve left- or right-handed users
- Easy to switch between left- and right-hand functionality, no drivers needed
- Optical encoder mouse wheel system for increased durability
- 450 / 1150 / 2300 DPI adjustment
- Adjustable USB report rate 125 / 500 / 1000 Hz
- ZOWIE custom-designed lens for a very low lift-off distance = 1.5 ~ 1.8mm
- Operating system: Win2000/XP/VISTA/7, Mac OS X v10.2 after
---------------------

The kana seems quite popular, at least here in Australia. It does not mention the real reasons why players like it. The only point that the AM hits is the low LOD. I think both these spec lists, along with the rest of the details on the brand sites are very blah.

Wtf is switching between left and right the third item on the list for the Zowie? Do we share mice off, what.
You could even go the route of calculating DPI vs sens vs resolution and calling those other brands out, as long as the mouse does what it says everything should be fine.

<< Comment #2333 @ 17:21 CDT, 25 June 2013 >>

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menancewhite - Reply to #2332

could just market it for the hipster appeal, for people who don't want to get any of the common "mainstream" mouse but sill get serious performance

I mean seriously, by now a4tech is king when it comes to having solid(and cheap looking) but extremely priceworthy game mouse (look any of their optical 7x ones). Just that tells us that only having actual good specs doesn't quite cut it all by itself.

<< Comment #2337 @ 13:36 CDT, 26 June 2013 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #2333

It will come down to how off far bsts breaking even point is. I hope he doesn't have to sell trillions of mice to achieve that goal, because frankly he won't. This project has to convice a niche market first (us hardcore gamers looking for performance) and then accumulate some great reviews along the way to sell more. For instance I don't think it will make a difference if he puts cool specs on the box or leaves it blank. Simply because there won't be any boxes sitting on the shelves of big retail sellers.

<< Comment #2342 @ 05:08 CDT, 2 July 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (91.221.254.6)

Hi DST! just read your great project
I just wanted to make an advise. Do NOT aim for a too low LOD (as zowie AM for instance) because a lot of players simply cannot use it.
Some people with fingergrip and low sense slightly lift the mice of during fast circular movements wich result (with zowie AM) in sensor to stop tracking :/ making it unusable.

Good luck, cheers

<< Comment #2347 @ 22:20 CDT, 9 July 2013 >>

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Tsubaki - Reply to #2342

its supposedly around 2mm so its not low enough to be annoying like zowie

<< Comment #2345 @ 09:53 CDT, 9 July 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (217.87.45.147)

When is release date? already tired of waiting

<< Comment #2346 @ 14:42 CDT, 9 July 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (141.0.8.139) - Reply to #2345

You have only been waiting for like 2 years.

<< Comment #2348 @ 17:36 CDT, 11 July 2013 >>

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By

rBn

waiting for reborn and ninox to get back in to gaming... i'm already old now, hopefully they'll both release before i die.

<< Comment #2349 @ 19:50 CDT, 12 July 2013 >>

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By

petejones

*UPDATE NEEDED*

It doesn't have to be major news dude... just something...

Edited by petejones at 14:17 CDT, 14 July 2013

<< Comment #2351 @ 03:53 CDT, 16 July 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.62) - Reply to #2349

He decided not to release the mouse. The reason is this guy named Pete S. Jones, he kept bothering him, he couldn't take it anymore. BST is just keeping the mice for himself and is using the donations to recoup his money.

<< Comment #2352 @ 13:20 CDT, 16 July 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2351

lol. You sound like a dick brother who's jelly that his mom is getting the other brother a gift.

<< Comment #2357 @ 11:05 CDT, 18 July 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2349

http://www.esreality.com/post/2451144/re-new-...pid2451144 :)

<< Comment #2350 @ 07:38 CDT, 14 July 2013 >>

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By

Qiwen

*UPDATE NEEDED*+1

<< Comment #2356 @ 11:04 CDT, 18 July 2013 >>

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By

»bst - Reply to #2350

http://www.esreality.com/post/2451144/re-new-...pid2451144 :)

<< Comment #2354 @ 09:51 CDT, 18 July 2013 >>

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»bst

Ok I have an update!:

At the end of last week I received some samples from the factory, they aren't 100% final versions, but the factory had made them already so it worked out faster to send them. They're the same in terms of sensor performance, tracking, LOD, etc, as the final versions (the differences are only in aesthetic things), so are fine for testing/reviewing.

I've sent some of them out already, so there should be some feedback from the testers pretty soon.

I should be getting the 100% final version next week, but I'm not getting as many samples, so only a small amount of those will be sent out.

This is just a quick update, I might make a new thread about it, because this one has become too large and its full of old information, it's already confusing enough :)

<< Comment #2365 @ 22:47 CDT, 19 July 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2354

Did that problem where the side button gets clicked if the side of the mouse is pushed ever get fixed? Also how hard are the switches? I've heard people saying they're only slightly softer than the AM's. Is that true? How does it compare to a WMO (which i consider the perfect switch)?

<< Comment #2367 @ 05:20 CDT, 20 July 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.77) - Reply to #2365

You must have not read the thread.

Whatever issue is inherent with the shell will be there. The shell also makes the switches feel stiffer.

<< Comment #2368 @ 12:02 CDT, 20 July 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2365

Side buttons:
Its technically still there, but its been improved a lot. I discovered that there were things that made it happen in the original beta test, such as the shells for that test had come from two different molds, and some were mismatched (top and bottom cases from two different molds). Also, if the side button switches were too light, it made the problem worse. So some people had the perfect situation to cause the problem, and others didn't, so there were some that reported it and others didn't notice it (even if they knew it was possible, it didn't affect them).

Since they've been using a single mold and heavier switches its been much better. You can still do it if you try hard, but it shouldn't happen by accident.

Front switches:
Its really hard for me to say, because I don't have a Zowie mouse. I have a WMO here and its almost feather touch, the Aurora needs a small amount more force, but not by much. I did specify lighter switches than in the original test, so will see how they do. I have tried an Aurora with very light switches, so it can go very light, but it was very hard to play with that, because it was so easy to accidentally click.

<< Comment #2370 @ 15:10 CDT, 20 July 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2368

Sounds fine to me. :)

Edited by petejones at 15:12 CDT, 20 July 2013

<< Comment #2355 @ 10:37 CDT, 18 July 2013 >>

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Anonymous (98.158.114.215)

If you decide to release the mouse, then at least have a good stock of it ready for shipment, before you take orders. Nothing worse than to wait 2 months for a backorder after waiting 2 years for a mouse.

I for one is gone buying a Zowie.

<< Comment #2358 @ 12:08 CDT, 18 July 2013 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #2355

zowie sucks bruv

<< Comment #2359 @ 13:29 CDT, 18 July 2013 >>

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Anonymous (98.158.114.142) - Reply to #2358

word? So you recommend for mid to low sens?

<< Comment #2360 @ 14:01 CDT, 18 July 2013 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #2359

hard question to answer, if going low sens (like 50cm/360)

I would personally want a mouse that is very light weight with a small body that has a perfect sensor (no prediction) with a low lod (NOT too fucking low, like zowie mice)

A lot of mice reviewed always have something fucked up about it. So I can't recommend anything for you yet.

If you can adjust to that low lod for zowie mice (custom sensor shit) then you will love their mice, If you can't adjust, then game over

If anyone knows a fix for it, i'd love to hear it

Edited by jamalz at 14:02 CDT, 18 July 2013

<< Comment #2361 @ 16:36 CDT, 18 July 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.139) - Reply to #2360

Red cloth mouse pad.

<< Comment #2362 @ 18:52 CDT, 18 July 2013 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #2361

I love you so much.

The dream is alive people. I have just tested and confirmed,

Artisan Hien RED soft + Zowie AM
= Fixed lod

This is a legendary combination sons.

UPDATE:

Tested mouse on Artisan Hien Black and still had lod issues, so I guess the RED part makes a difference (da fuck?)

This is one of the best combos now for quake gaming.
Any zowie mice with that custom sensor + artisan hien red and you are baller.

Edited by jamalz at 19:56 CDT, 18 July 2013

<< Comment #2363 @ 20:15 CDT, 18 July 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.157) - Reply to #2362

I know a little.

If you use a DeathAdder 3.5G on that red mouse pad it will lower LOD.

Great to have a red cloth mouse pad if you have those mice.

<< Comment #2364 @ 13:43 CDT, 19 July 2013 >>

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Anonymous (98.158.114.173) - Reply to #2362

heard FK is quite a lowrider. Got the extra feet over the existing or using just stock/different?

<< Comment #2369 @ 12:09 CDT, 20 July 2013 >>

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Tsubaki - Reply to #2362

too bad i dont like that mousepad :x
steelseries needs to make the qck heavy in red, they only have small red qcks

<< Comment #2372 @ 10:36 CDT, 21 July 2013 >>

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Anonymous (213.34.69.34) - Reply to #2369

Get a G-TF Speed? Fucking smooth pad. Just no rubber base. And that actually solved the tracking problems I had with my Talent in combination with the FK. The FK couldn't track over the little dents in the rubber base.

<< Comment #2366 @ 05:20 CDT, 20 July 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.77)

I use the stock feet for now. When I buy some Intellimouse feet I will use those.

<< Comment #2371 @ 15:51 CDT, 20 July 2013 >>

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h8m3

for anyone willing to get the mouse - http://www.esreality.com/post/2450523/125-fps...pid2451596 ;)

<< Comment #2373 @ 15:49 CDT, 25 July 2013 >>

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By

abso

so is the aurora going to be available next month?

<< Comment #2374 @ 03:38 CDT, 26 July 2013 >>

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cumrag - Reply to #2373

i doubt it.

<< Comment #2375 @ 09:16 CDT, 26 July 2013 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #2373

It should be.
I've received mine today, I'll try it at home tonight but for now, it's damn good, really good shape, lightweight and it sticks in your hand.

<< Comment #2376 @ 15:23 CDT, 26 July 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2375

YAY
Tell us about the switches?
How hard is it to recreate that minor side button issue?

<< Comment #2377 @ 17:02 CDT, 26 July 2013 >>

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Tsubaki - Reply to #2376

i hope it feels like d2f-01f
the intellimouse 1.0 had godly switch feeling

<< Comment #2378 @ 06:50 CDT, 27 July 2013 >>

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pussuw - Reply to #2375

- I'm so jealous. -

Kind of hard to believe it will be distributable next month, if he still hasn't received the finalized samples. Also, no pre-orders are up, as far as I know. It takes time for the factory to start mass producing, deliver times from Asia to Europe, setting up efficient delivery methods for the product etc.

I'd still like to know a realistic estimate when pre-orders will be up. After that it will be a few weeks up to a couple of months before delivery.

<< Comment #2379 @ 11:47 CDT, 28 July 2013 >>

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XpArTy

So now that the projected release date is drawing closer (and especially since there are a few of the Auroras out in the wild already), any word as to a solid release date or at least an estimate if it is to be delayed?

<< Comment #2380 @ 06:57 CDT, 29 July 2013 >>

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DizzyMage

I havn't been keeping up to date, but is ie 3.0 still considered to be the best?

<< Comment #2381 @ 10:42 CDT, 29 July 2013 >>

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fuku - Reply to #2380

Yea its still one of the best ever made. If your looking for a mouse with similar shape, I would recommend the Zowie EC1.

<< Comment #2382 @ 13:13 CDT, 29 July 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2381

zowie ec1 is the perfect mouse for those who like that type of shape, whereas the aurora will be the perfect mouse for those who like ambidextrous mice (the WMO is still the best in that segment for now).

<< Comment #2383 @ 07:30 CDT, 1 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (78.28.19.169)

Will it work on steelseries sx ?? Or other hard pads without any problems.

And ofc when that mice will be available!:D

<< Comment #2385 @ 06:16 CDT, 2 August 2013 >>

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SwarmDMX - Reply to #2383

1) Yes 2) bst will announce in his own time, but I hear it will be very soon.

<< Comment #2384 @ 19:47 CDT, 1 August 2013 >>

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petejones

I'd really love to see the verdict on this mouse... and also: "whennnnnnnnnnnnnnnn"

<< Comment #2386 @ 06:18 CDT, 2 August 2013 >>

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SwarmDMX - Reply to #2384

Verdict: A+++

<< Comment #2387 @ 10:59 CDT, 2 August 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2386

omg that's the second times someone said its amazing without any actual details. thats just mean.

<< Comment #2388 @ 11:10 CDT, 2 August 2013 >>

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SwarmDMX - Reply to #2387

I'm sure bst will provide tons of info when he's ready :)

<< Comment #2389 @ 12:14 CDT, 2 August 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2388

just one thing. tell me about the clicks. PLEASE?

Edited by petejones at 12:19 CDT, 2 August 2013

<< Comment #2390 @ 13:38 CDT, 2 August 2013 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #2389

The clicks are stiff (less than AM / FK but more than WMO or G100s for examples) but honestly they are ok, very fast actuation and reset, I really like the clicks because they feel very secure and well defined, no misclicks.

<< Comment #2391 @ 16:23 CDT, 2 August 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2390

are they closer to the AM or to the WMO? I'm very interested in this because the AM literally gave me tendinitis and the WMO fixed it. Thanks.

<< Comment #2394 @ 08:36 CDT, 3 August 2013 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #2391

somewhere between the two I think but they are lighter than the FK which is already easier to click than the AM.

<< Comment #2416 @ 07:57 CDT, 6 August 2013 >>

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Lam ' - Reply to #2390

What do you mean by "stiff"? I was asking about this before (I can't buy any mouse since 3 years because all of them have stiff buttons) and bst himself said they're soft like a WMO! I was so hyped and now this... FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU

<< Comment #2417 @ 08:21 CDT, 6 August 2013 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #2416

They are not like the WMO to my point of view. They are a little more harder to click. But the difference is not HUGE as I said. Everytime people keep thinking of large difference whenever you use comparative.
What mouse did you try ?

But to be honest, with the g100s, they are the two best mouse i've used so far. The FK is ok but the g100s and the Aurora are lighter, have a better shape, and a better sensor.

<< Comment #2392 @ 22:49 CDT, 2 August 2013 >>

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resis

For f##k sake! Release it already. :D

AM clicks are mean, FK are okay, but if Aurora has it even less stiff than FK than they must be good. I definitely don't want them mushy and too soft.

How is the wheel? I hope is scrolls easy, but has clear steps. CM Storm Recon has an awesome wheel, so do Roccat mice. The AM wheel is too stiff to scroll, real pain.

Sick of my Zowie mice, but others I tried weren't a fit. I gotta know how Aurora is or I'm gonna freak out. Need a proper mouse, right now.

<< Comment #2395 @ 08:45 CDT, 3 August 2013 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #2392

The wheel feels very secure with clear steps, I find the wheel to be very good overall.
It's quite hard to click on it by the way, and I find that it's too far back while i'm gaming (nearly a full palm grip).
Hum to give a comparison... I would say it's quite similar to the AM/FK wheel, maybe a tad more difficult to click.

<< Comment #2399 @ 01:40 CDT, 4 August 2013 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #2395

It's quite hard to click on it by the way, and I find that it's too far back while i'm gaming (nearly a full palm grip).

So its basically moved back just like with abyssus.Thats not good, whenever I used abyssus I found myself lifting entire mouse and hard bending fingers just so I could scroll/click the wheel button, very uncomfortable.

<< Comment #2407 @ 17:24 CDT, 4 August 2013 >>

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MaximilianKohler - Reply to #2395

Wow... that seems really problematic... the AM/FK wheel is already extremely hard to click... and the wheel being far back is really bad too... do you think these things will be able to be fixed before release?

<< Comment #2408 @ 17:41 CDT, 4 August 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2407

it shouldn't be a problem really, at least in theory. On fast paced games, the only usage of this mouse in which this could be an issue, no one relies on clicking mouse3 (except toxjq).

In practice, with the abyssus clicking and scrolling mouse3 wasn't an issue at all for me and I use it all the time (for taunting and 'use item'). Couldn't tell the difference from the wmo or any other mice I've used.

Edited by megaman3 at 17:59 CDT, 4 August 2013

<< Comment #2409 @ 17:54 CDT, 4 August 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2408

I mean, it's an imperfection, but a far smaller imperfection than the majority of mice on the market. Not a deal breaker at all.

Edited by petejones at 17:56 CDT, 4 August 2013

<< Comment #2410 @ 19:19 CDT, 4 August 2013 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #2407

well to be more precise the wheel is very close to abyssus one, totally fine imho

<< Comment #2412 @ 02:44 CDT, 5 August 2013 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #2407

I really like the FK Wheel, it's all preference to be honest.
For the position it's a matter of being used to it, it's the same "issue" with the g100s and now I'm fine with it.
Unfortunately the position won't be change for the release because BST will need a new mold which far too expensive for one modification.

<< Comment #2404 @ 13:51 CDT, 4 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.76) - Reply to #2392

The lighter the actuation force of the switch the more they will be mushy. The reset will be slower too.

The way mechanical scroll wheels are is similar. The lighter the scroll and the more notches on a wheel will decrease feedback. It becomes worse when the wheel starts to wear out.

You are asking for something that goes against reality.

If you don't want your Zowie mice, I will gladly accept your gift.

<< Comment #2405 @ 17:04 CDT, 4 August 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2404

If you want to know what I think is the mouse with the perfect switch feel as of now (you seem to have assumed you know it already), its the WMO.

<< Comment #2393 @ 23:50 CDT, 2 August 2013 >>

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xero- '

Did you end up switching to hyperglides?

<< Comment #2396 @ 10:02 CDT, 3 August 2013 >>

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lemming#13

Sounds good so far. Maybe some of the lucky beta testers could be so nice and upload some pics or a short video?

<< Comment #2397 @ 23:05 CDT, 3 August 2013 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #2396

just a teasing mod one guy made ;P

Edited by h8m3 at 23:06 CDT, 3 August 2013

34%

<< Comment #2398 @ 23:57 CDT, 3 August 2013 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #2397

Wow that is a beautiful mouse.

It would be better with a kitten, or maybe a DF bunny, instead of the QL logo. Everyone knows QL sucks :D

Edited by KittenIgnition at 00:01 CDT, 4 August 2013

<< Comment #2400 @ 03:51 CDT, 4 August 2013 >>

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Rjven - Reply to #2397

pukingrainbows.jpg

<< Comment #2401 @ 04:00 CDT, 4 August 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #2397

No matter how I look at it, the rear area looks different to the logitech's g100/100s where there is a small lump at the back before kinda curving inwards towards the bottom. Can you compare the rear parts? Is the rear of the aurora more kinda straight down or does it form a small lump before curving in? If that makes sense. If it doesn't make sense, dw :P

<< Comment #2402 @ 04:08 CDT, 4 August 2013 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #2401

Indeed the rear is different, there is no small bump like on the g100s, Actually I find the rear a bit more natural on the Aurora and it fit better in my hand.
The Aurora is also a bit longer and flatter than the g100s.

Edited by fishbone_ at 04:11 CDT, 4 August 2013

<< Comment #2403 @ 04:22 CDT, 4 August 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #2402

Awesome. Thanks for that.

<< Comment #2506 @ 12:19 CDT, 13 August 2013 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #2403

I made a small mistake, in fact the g100s is flatter, it's just bump at the rear and the wider shell of the g100s that got me into saying that the Aurora is flatter. I posted a link with comparison pics between the g100s and the Aurora (dropbox link)
Sorry for that.

<< Comment #2411 @ 20:00 CDT, 4 August 2013 >>

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resis - Reply to #2397

How does one make a mod like this? Did he remove the coating? Would make sense with the rubber version, but the glossy one?

In any case, that looks pretty awesome. I'd prefer this over the angular Ninox logo.

It would be even more badass if it was just the "Q" without the circle around it, but I guess Ninox has no affiliation with Quake Live, so it will remain a mod.

Now if the Aurora was available without the rear logo and you could make your own logo. That would be awesome. I'd make a door glyph from Thief. :D

Edited by resis at 20:01 CDT, 4 August 2013

<< Comment #2419 @ 11:15 CDT, 7 August 2013 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #2397

Thx. Looks cool. I've no problem with the original design though. The performance is what matters anyway, I could not care less if the thing was colored like a rainbow.

<< Comment #2528 @ 13:07 CDT, 21 August 2013 >>

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Vig1lante - Reply to #2397

Gonna be a collectors item

<< Comment #2406 @ 17:17 CDT, 4 August 2013 >>

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By

resis

MOAR PICS!!!

<< Comment #2413 @ 01:31 CDT, 6 August 2013 >>

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By

vrtx

MOAR UPDATES!!!! Real realease date please! And maybe throw in a website for us to drool on!

<< Comment #2414 @ 01:43 CDT, 6 August 2013 >>

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eMbAh - Reply to #2413

¦ ]

<< Comment #2415 @ 04:17 CDT, 6 August 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #2413

Yeh I was content with no updates on the thread for alittle while and putting the mouse at the back of my mind, but now this influx of new information has me wanting more :(

<< Comment #2418 @ 14:01 CDT, 6 August 2013 >>

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rBn - Reply to #2413

plz... -_-'

<< Comment #2420 @ 15:30 CDT, 7 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (93.174.93.145)

It's time to release this fkin shit already!

<< Comment #2421 @ 16:56 CDT, 7 August 2013 >>

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Fr0zzen

Is this going to be Mac compatible?

<< Comment #2423 @ 17:44 CDT, 7 August 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2421

You can use the mouse on a Mac, but the software (to change settings) can only be used on a PC. However the mouse will remember the settings if you take it from a PC to a Mac.

<< Comment #2427 @ 00:18 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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Fr0zzen - Reply to #2423

Are you going to release a mac software for this or is that out of the question?

<< Comment #2428 @ 01:24 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2427

Not at the moment, sorry. I would like to do it in the future though.

<< Comment #2431 @ 03:14 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #2427

this mouse doesn't really require software after initial user preferences(dpi profiles and usb rate)setup other than to change the led colors ;o

<< Comment #2445 @ 11:33 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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Fr0zzen - Reply to #2431

Changing colors of a mouse is the most important thing. Kappa

<< Comment #2422 @ 17:40 CDT, 7 August 2013 >>

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»bst

I got a sample of the release candidate today.

I asked for an older version of the mouse, which I wanted to use as the final version, because the latest version they made had some problems.

Instead of doing that though, they fixed all of the problems on the latest version, except one: 400 DPI is malfunctioning (it behaves like 800 DPI when moved slowly, but slows down to 400 DPI when the mouse is moved fast).

I really don't want to lose the 400 DPI step, so I'm going to try one last time just to get them to fix it. I'll try to come to some kind of arrangement/incentive tonight, to get them to do it faster, since its just one problem hopefully they can focus on it.

About the release date: I hoped to be able to give one now, because I hoped to have the final version in my hands. I think by now the best I can say is I'm aiming for within 2013. If I try to predict it too precisely, I think it just lets people down in the end.

I can give some milestones though, so people know where things are now:
1) Fixing the 400 DPI problem: how long will it take? / is there any way it can be done faster? / is it better to remove it?
2) Booking in for certification (CE/FCC etc) (usually takes 1 month)
3) Passed certification? If not go back one step. If yes go to next step.
4) Manufacturing (1 month)
5) Shipping to distribution hubs (1-3 weeks depending on delays at customs)
6) Delivery to your door (allow up to 1 week)

Right now its on the first step of this list, I expected to be at the 2nd step over 2 months ago, which is why I guessed the release date could be around now. But with this list you can kind of get an idea of when the mouse will be released, just by looking what step its on at the moment, so I hope it'll be more useful to people than a fixed date that can change.

I'll try and post an update later on, after I've talked to the factory about the 400 DPI step.

<< Comment #2424 @ 19:54 CDT, 7 August 2013 >>

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Shuki - Reply to #2422

400dpi is probably one of the most common dpi settings, so I think its pretty important for it to work properly.

13%

<< Comment #2425 @ 20:06 CDT, 7 August 2013 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #2422

Preoder !?!?!?!?

<< Comment #2426 @ 23:25 CDT, 7 August 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2422

400dpi is absolutely vital, particularly for quake/cs players. I'd certainly wait however long is necessary to have that.

Thanks for the update.

Edited by petejones at 23:26 CDT, 7 August 2013

<< Comment #2432 @ 04:12 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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pussuw - Reply to #2422

400DPI is the only relevant resolution. You can trash all the other DPI levels for all I care. Someone already stated that it is the most important step, for quake and cs players specifically. I will simply not buy the mouse if the 400DPI step is removed, it will basically be a G1 then, and I already have one of those.

<< Comment #2437 @ 08:59 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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zealot - Reply to #2432

why is 400dpi that important? i'm quite serious, see here for example http://konr.co.uk/mouse/ and test with 400dpi/ sens 5/ fov 100/ full hd.

another thing is that with m_cpi is don't even see the 'i'm used to this' argument left..

<< Comment #2438 @ 10:17 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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pussuw - Reply to #2437

I can't understand your point ?
At what figure am I supposed to look here.
I used the following values:
400DPI
2.0 sens
1920 resolution (I actually scale this to 640)
1 windows multiplier
m_yaw 0.022
m_accel 0
100fov

Results:
51,9 cm for a 360 turn, which makes sense since my pad is 380mm wide and swiping from side to side is a 270 turn.
Estimated useful DPI gave a value of 247.44, which is lower than 400DPI. Is this the figure that was supposed to tell me I need a higher DPI because I have a 1920 monitor now ?
Maximum speed was 6.1 m/s before neg. accel. hits.

Now if I don't want to change my windows sensitivity (which I most definitely don't want to do), I would have to lower my in game sensitivity, in case I used a higher DPI mouse (which I do at this point, unfortunately, and I don't like it...). All sensitivities below 2.0 don't work properly in cs. Try it for yourself, by setting 1.0 sens and moving the mouse as slow as you can. The game will not register the movement at all.

<< Comment #2441 @ 10:19 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2438

1.- With 400 dpi there will be skipping under certain conditions, even on desktop. It's not fine handicapping yourself or having to avoid certain settings.

2.- What matters the most is in what dpi step the particular mouse works best, which is something that happens with every single one that has configurable dpi steps. In this case it seems it will be 800, so that's what you should use with it. In others it's 450 (abyssus), 800 (mx5xx series) and so on.

3.- Also a mouse should perform ok in all possible DPIs, so buyers use whichever they like.

4.- With the current marketing on these products I'd say few people try 400dpi and go for the highest one instead. That means the dev focus should be there.

5.- If you prefer to use the default windows sens (I do too) then change the dpi settings when at desktop, with whichever method the particular mice has (button, switch at the bottom, drivers with keyboard combination or via clicking).

Because of all those points it isn't true that "400dpi is the only relevant dpi" If anything it's the least relevant of them all.

Edited by megaman3 at 10:32 CDT, 8 August 2013

<< Comment #2444 @ 11:11 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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pussuw - Reply to #2441

I'm not quite sure I understand what your point here is, so I'll assume it has something to do with the native resolution of a sensor.

Any resolution that is not the sensors native resolution must have some software compensation to achieve the desired resolution. If the desired resolution is lower than the actual resolution of the sensor, -losing/ignoring samples- (can't remember the correct term for this) must happen. If the resolution is greater than the actual resolution, interpolation/extrapolation -guessing/making up samples- must happen.

This is all managed by the MCU firmware, and the problem with 400DPI 'not working properly' is due to a software bug (most probably in the -ignoring of samples- (what is the correct term for this ffs :D) algorithm). I just cannot imagine this could be a hardware fault, since hes using standard Avago or Avago suggested parts ? Bst can correct me on this one if this is not the case.

ADNS-3090 native resolutions are 1800CPI and 3500CPI, not taking into account any processing overhead that might cause issues.

The resolution this particular mouse should work best at, is 1800CPI. Its just pure chance that 800DPI works well, and 400DPI does not.

Edited by pussuw at 03:18 CDT, 9 August 2013

<< Comment #2449 @ 13:32 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2444

Good post.

<< Comment #2453 @ 16:57 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #2444

switchable native resolutions of ADNS-3090 with the latest srom are 800-1600-3200-4000 and 400 being the resolution when you load the rom without initializing the res register

<< Comment #2454 @ 17:41 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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pussuw - Reply to #2453

Ok, I used the product datasheet as an example. I'm assuming the srom contains the image processing algorithms, and the resolution register is at the actual hardware. Since you know how the sensor actually works, how can i.e. 800DPI be considered 'native' if the hardware supports only 1800/3500? Or am I missing something here :P

<< Comment #2456 @ 20:18 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2454

See this:
http://ninox.org/files/AV02-3346EN+AN_5546+AD...an2012.pdf

To get 400 DPI the MCU discreetly ignores half of the movement counts at 800 DPI, it works well and feels the same as a normal DPI step (at least it did when it was working).
Its pretty much this:
800 DPI: 111111
400 DPI: 101010
At 0.5x DPI you can spread the ignored counts evenly so its discreet.

<< Comment #2459 @ 02:37 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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pussuw - Reply to #2456

Yes, so its how I pointed out in my previous post. 400DPI is achieved by losing/ignoring samples. I just did not know that the new SROM had options for different resolutions. I did not realize that the sensors firmware was 'patchable' (I have come across a radio chip that had this feature), so the information I read from the product datasheet is outdated.

Thank you for your response.

Edited by pussuw at 03:06 CDT, 9 August 2013

<< Comment #2490 @ 07:15 CDT, 11 August 2013 >>

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steffo - Reply to #2456

adding an LPF while downsampling would result in too much input lag?

<< Comment #2462 @ 02:37 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.142) - Reply to #2454

The native resolution for the 3090 sensor is 900 CPI. This is the only native, everything else is code based.

<< Comment #2556 @ 19:48 CDT, 29 August 2013 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #2462

Agilent/Avago/Pixart has never released a SROM with 900 CPI resolution.

The Matrix is 30*30 or 900, though the sensor architecture was specifically designed for 800 DPI. Evolution of the original A2020 model exclusive to Logitech.

<< Comment #2557 @ 19:50 CDT, 29 August 2013 >>

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Skylit - Reply to #2444

Both 1800 and 3500 are circumvented from native units of default matrix being 30*30 (900).

The sensor architecture or hardware itself was originally designed for 800 DPI.

<< Comment #2558 @ 19:53 CDT, 29 August 2013 >>

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XpArTy - Reply to #2557

I'll take two.

???

Edited by XpArTy at 19:54 CDT, 29 August 2013

<< Comment #2465 @ 10:38 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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zealot - Reply to #2438

no, i wasn't telling you to do anything, i was trying to make you realize you're not the only person out there and really shouldn't make 'this is the only thing that matters' posts regarding dpi :)

yeah, maybe you won't need higher dpi but quite some people's 'useful dpi value' will be quite higher now that most of us play in 1080p.

the other thing being that i still don't get what's so special about 400dpi, it was once introduced because it mimicked the mouse speed of certain ball mice, but that's about it. why should we stick with 400dpi?

<< Comment #2467 @ 12:15 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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pussuw - Reply to #2465

Well my post was a bit provocative, I admit. It was intentional though, and at least I got a response (yay).

To the point: the reason 400DPI is still the most common resolution used by gamers, is that low sensitivity is extremely difficult to achieve with high DPI mice, without lowering your windows sensitivity. I really do not want to lower it.

In modern games this is not a problem, since you can scale the sensitivity in-game, and the mouse movement sensing is much more sophisticated. But with CS for instance, going below 2.0 sens makes the mouse movement just strange. You can verify this by setting 1.0 sens and moving your mouse as slow as you can, the mouse movement will not register (this is most easily noticeable with awp double scope). It's the way CS detects mouse movement that does this.

<< Comment #2468 @ 12:43 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #2467

Define "gamers". I'm pretty sure that the majority of "gamers" have moved on to higher resolutions. I'd even go so far as to say that gamers still using 400 dpi are a a minority. Mostly "hardcore gamers".

I mean, 400 dpi should work if the mouse offers it, yes. But tbh, it won't ruin the aurora for a lot of people anymore.

<< Comment #2483 @ 05:26 CDT, 10 August 2013 >>

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pussuw - Reply to #2468

I know for a fact that almost all FPS progamers, and competitive players still use 400DPI (or 450 depending on the mouse). I don't count casuals as gamers. This mouse is not designed for casuals. This is designed for gamers. There is no sense trying to compete on the casual market with a mouse that has none of the 'awesome' marketing features all casual gaming mice have. Its good at where it counts, but casuals would never feel the difference.

Edited by pussuw at 05:35 CDT, 10 August 2013

<< Comment #2484 @ 11:48 CDT, 10 August 2013 >>

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zealot - Reply to #2483

1) who cares about counterstrike, it's esr. play a game where you don't need sens 0.01.
2) for me at x1080 something around 800-900dpi is comfortable as OS sens, 400dpi not so much.
3) a bunch of guys being conservative about their setups and now everyone else is suddenly a 'casual'. sure :p

<< Comment #2488 @ 05:53 CDT, 11 August 2013 >>

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pussuw - Reply to #2484

1) Its the only competitive FPS game that exists in 2013. Though CS:GO is crap, and I hate it, it's still the only FPS with a noticeable pro scene. Though I have to admit, its less relevant to have low DPI in this game, since the sensitivity scaling actually works at low sensitivities even.

2) I have 2x full hd displays, 400DPI is still fine. I have an 800DPI mouse atm and I scale it down with windows sens.

3) Only way of actually improving your play is to keep your setup consistent. This is not an opinion, its a fact.

<< Comment #2491 @ 07:37 CDT, 11 August 2013 >>

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zealot - Reply to #2488

1) we play quake here. CS will never be a point in an argument, but something to point at and laugh.

2) yes, ymmv. don't tell me i have to use 400dpi with full hd, though. i want no scaling of OS sens and some comfort at native resolution, if i then can use a mouse at its native dpi: even better.

3) sure, but mice with 400+ dpi have been around for ages and m_cpi has been around for some time aswell. if you can't adapt in 2-3 years you suck and it's not your setup that's at fault :)

<< Comment #2559 @ 20:02 CDT, 29 August 2013 >>

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MaximilianKohler - Reply to #2491

Why would you point and laugh at CS... many people play both games. The difference is that quake is 1v1 while CS is 5v5. Some people prefer the team game over solitary 1v1ing.

Edited by MaximilianKohler at 20:03 CDT, 29 August 2013

<< Comment #2562 @ 21:46 CDT, 29 August 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2559

The vast portion of quake games (lets say 80%) are team matches.

<< Comment #2565 @ 05:15 CDT, 30 August 2013 >>

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zealot - Reply to #2559

quake is not 1v1? i've never been into duel and i've been playing various versions of quake since '99. team modes have always been vastly more popular than duels.

<< Comment #2485 @ 11:50 CDT, 10 August 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2483

In every single product ever, where sells are at is on the 'casual' market. And even the most hardcore cs-only guys still would want to have a usable mouse on desktop in 2013: the 1.1 mice aren't.

Edited by megaman3 at 11:53 CDT, 10 August 2013

<< Comment #2489 @ 06:04 CDT, 11 August 2013 >>

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pussuw - Reply to #2485

You are absolutely right about the sells being on the casual market. I'm just not really optimistic on this mouse hitting large sales numbers on a market that already has a lot of competition, and the competition has more experience, more exposure, better ways of delivering the product, retail sales already set up etc etc.

What I'm trying to say I guess, there is no need for another Razer-like mouse, however there is a need for a more Zowie-like mouse, that is of the best possible quality, and provides what the minority of gamers need. The problem with Zowie is that they are very good mice, but they are not perfect, as pointed out by several other people on this thread.

<< Comment #2494 @ 19:41 CDT, 12 August 2013 >>

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Freiya - Reply to #2485

"the 1.1 mice aren't"

That's not true. Win 6/11, point. prec. off, MarkC fix, 3200 x 2400 (2x 1600x1200) diagonally was around 15 cm on the pad.

<< Comment #2496 @ 19:51 CDT, 12 August 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2494

skipping

<< Comment #2499 @ 21:31 CDT, 12 August 2013 >>

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Freiya - Reply to #2496

No, but a fact.

<< Comment #2429 @ 03:02 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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eMbAh - Reply to #2422

I just want 800 dpi and nothing else

<< Comment #2430 @ 03:11 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #2422

since it's just a firmware update and all hardware is fine why are you gonna wait? Go for certification and fix the firmware while manufacturing or after release

<< Comment #2452 @ 15:54 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #2430

Yeah well. I'm sure this is what a company like razer does. In the end the bug will be with the end consumer. bst just can't afford that.

<< Comment #2503 @ 03:06 CDT, 13 August 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2430

Ok it should be booked in for certification this week after the payment goes through.

<< Comment #2433 @ 05:48 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (198.144.116.238)

Use 800 dpi and lower your sens you lamers. It is already 2013 and the monitors have high resolution, why would you use 400 dpi on high resolutions.

If you want the 400 dpi speed in desktop just go on the control panel and put the slider to the fourth, for in game use 800 dpi and just cut your current sensitivity in half and that's it.

Stop delaying the project for everyone with your bullshit requests.

Bst should just stop listening to these fossilized nerds who still play on 800x600 crts.

There is literally no point to have the 400 dpi step except maybe for nerds playing who have crts with resolution of tetris and its too fast on desktop.

<< Comment #2435 @ 08:45 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (114.84.152.209) - Reply to #2433

If someone wants 400dpi and raw mouse input, they would be out of luck without that step. But I think that people are overly fixated on it because that was all the original gaming mouse could do. A lot of people seem to ignore that the resolution of the monitor also plays a role in the sensitivity. Back then most people were doing 1024x768, so actually stepping it up to 550dpi on a 1920x1080 would give the same real desktop and game sensitivity.

<< Comment #2436 @ 08:47 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #2435

Perhaps. But doesn't this only apply to cs 1.6? Quake seems to still be fine.

Edited by end0rphine at 10:46 CDT, 8 August 2013

<< Comment #2448 @ 13:27 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2436

Lots of people still use 400dpi, myself included. It simply can't be argued that its "useless" (as many a retard has already done) because of the way it interacts with Quake Live and CS. With my primary concern, Quake, having 400dpi is necessary because of the way it works with accel. The strength of accel is affected by the dpi (becoming a hard senscap) and makes it feel a certain way. With a higher dpi, its either impossible or extremely hard to get the same feeling. I don't play CS myself, but I do know for low sens guys on low resolution, 400dpi is important.

Edited by petejones at 13:29 CDT, 8 August 2013

<< Comment #2464 @ 05:17 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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horf - Reply to #2448

To me it was different mice that reacted very differently to accel, but very similarly without accel :/

<< Comment #2450 @ 13:45 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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Pill_ - Reply to #2435

In Quake, the resolution does not affect your real sensitivity, though apparently it does change the feel.
Here, http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html play around with this and you'll find out.

<< Comment #2457 @ 21:16 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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resis - Reply to #2433

It may be 2013, but I still mostly play games from a different era. Unfortunately not all of them have good mouse sensitivity options, which leaves me to adjust DPI on the mouse. 400dpi is quite the necessity for me then.

Also even some new games have too fast mouse speed settings, that you can't go low enough. 400dpi is also there useful.

<< Comment #2434 @ 07:56 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (173.165.161.185)

FML. Ninox, you are gonna screw around a miss this small window of opportunity you have, BST, thanks for having the patients to deal with all of this BS. I know it must be frustrating as hell.

<< Comment #2440 @ 10:19 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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pussuw - Reply to #2434

For his target customers, the window will be open infinitely. There is not a single -no compromises- mouse on the market atm. I have waited for this mouse for years now, even before it was announced. A few months more will do absolutely nothing, since there is no alternative. He doesn't have to deal with any BS from anyone. He is ultimately the man that specifies what the mouse will and will not have. And I'm pretty sure he doesn't want a mouse that is not perfect in every possible way. As I understand it, that's the whole point of this project...

<< Comment #2442 @ 10:36 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2440

Right now there are brilliant mice to choose, such as the G400 and Zowies.

And with mice and all peripherals there will always be compromises, not only in computers.

<< Comment #2446 @ 12:23 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #2442

The Aurora beats the Zowie AM and FK hands down.

<< Comment #2447 @ 12:27 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2446

Haven't tried it, but nowadays mice are solid. That wasn't the case when this thread was started (26 October 2011)

<< Comment #2458 @ 21:20 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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resis - Reply to #2447

I tried Roccat mice and have two Zowie's and am still dissatisfied with them.

I don't expect the Aurora to fulfill all my dreams, but it is the best candidate so far. I don't see anything else that may be an option, except to wait and see what a new CM Storm optical will be.

<< Comment #2495 @ 19:44 CDT, 12 August 2013 >>

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Freiya - Reply to #2447

There were solid mice in 2003 as well.

<< Comment #2460 @ 02:37 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.142) - Reply to #2446

The FK is one awesome mouse! There is three things I would change about it and one that I wouldn't mind if it changed. Updated firmware, regular lens, larger size. Maybe change the scroll wheel.

As it is out of the box it is one of the best. It isn't the best for a low sensitivity player with certain games though because of the high CPI.

<< Comment #2560 @ 20:26 CDT, 29 August 2013 >>

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MaximilianKohler - Reply to #2442

The G400 is palm grip only and Ramla777 says it has a shit scroll wheel.

Zowie AM has shit grip/shape and cramps the hand in palm grip because of it's thinness.

Zowie FK cramps hand in palm grip because of it's thinness. The weight seemed imbalanced towards the back in fingertip grip. The sensor seemed a little "floaty" when I needed precision on the desktop for things like selecting text.

There is not a single mouse that can be held in all 3 grips (palm, claw, finger tip) and has no issues with the build quality, sensor, shape, grip, etc..

<< Comment #2461 @ 02:37 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.142) - Reply to #2440

This mouse will be far from perfect.

The firmware is being written by people that don't know what they are doing when it comes to the 3090. There was problems with the higher CPI settings and now there is problems with the 400 setting. It may just end up as a 800/900 CPI mouse.

The mold is made by the factory. The scroll wheel position, side and main buttons are not very well designed.

It could be a solid medium sized, ambidextrous, 800/900 CPI mouse with typical internals. Also flashy light effects...

Kids are hyping this mouse up way too much! You are going to make BST look like a fool if you keep acting like this mouse is from Heaven. As if it is the next Intellimouse.

<< Comment #2466 @ 11:33 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2461

As I told you some time ago, the intellimouse suffered from the same so called flaws and it wasn't even a gaming mouse.

<< Comment #2474 @ 15:25 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2461

this idiot again.... this viewpoint is just pathetic. why even post in the thread if all you want to do is talk the mouse down to a bunch of people waiting for it. get something better to do (if you can).

<< Comment #2439 @ 10:18 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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megaman3

Fine, as long as it comes with a sticker.

<< Comment #2443 @ 10:58 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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zkyp

Fine, as long as it comes with a $GoLdPlaTed$ConNEcT0r$.

<< Comment #2455 @ 20:13 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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naper - Reply to #2443

If the usb is not gold-plated, my penis will be deflated.

<< Comment #2463 @ 04:33 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #2455

On my beta-test sample, it is. Happy ?

<< Comment #2469 @ 12:45 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #2463

You just gave some random dude a boner. Happy?

Edited by nYshak at 12:46 CDT, 9 August 2013

<< Comment #2470 @ 12:57 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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naper - Reply to #2463

I was just going for a Johnny Cochran style rhyme, not concerned about the connector. BUT I am happy you have a beta test sample, how is it so far?

<< Comment #2471 @ 13:48 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #2470

I'm writing a review right now, I'll post it tomorrow (or as soon as I finish it) !
But so far, it will be a hit for me. And I'll support BST and Ninox.

<< Comment #2472 @ 13:57 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2471

Pictures. Lots of them.

<< Comment #2473 @ 14:09 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #2472

I'll try to add pictures but I really doubt of that as the Wifi here is shit as fuck...
I only have the g100s and the Aurora with me.

<< Comment #2492 @ 08:48 CDT, 11 August 2013 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #2472

here you can see the Aurora next to the g100s : https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ewtngu6u1nrmt7v/00ytzlO9ky

Pics taken from my Galaxy S2... :/

<< Comment #2451 @ 15:30 CDT, 8 August 2013 >>

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alb

Fine, as long as there are atleast 3 or 4 more delays (or 50 :/), keeping everyone in suspense like forever.

<< Comment #2475 @ 15:26 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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fishbone_

Ok, after few days of back and forth between the Aurora and the g100s, I'll try to make a little review of this beta sample. English is not my mother tongue but I'll try to do my best.
Unfortunately I was able to use it in game for only 2 days because I'm in holidays now and I don't have a proper setup nor a good connection. I might not be able upload photos... Sorry about that.
First of all, the box is really well made and the mouse couldn't be more secure in it. Maybe it's even too much.
After 45 minutes, I finally have the mouse in my hand and the feeling is great out of the box, it's lightweight, beautiful and the grip... Man, the combinaison of the grainy plastic at the bottom and the rubber at the top is brillant. It has this \_/ shape that the FK has, but to a lesser extent.
So it makes the mouse to be one of the grippiest mouse I've had. The grainy plastic shares similarities with the WMO plastic but in a grippier way.
The rubber is good, it's a bit uneven on the surface but I think it will smooth out with the use.
I have fairy big hands and my grip is hybrid between palm and claw grip, I call it a relaxed claw grip. My two last fingers lay flat on the side of the mouse, I click with my index and middle finger with the first phalanx not with the tip of my fingers.
Overall the build quality feels cheaper than the g100s or the Zowie FK maybe because of the thinner plastic that make the mouse lightweight but I still find it to be really good. Far better than the Microsoft mice.

Shapewise it's a really good mouse, it reminds me the g100s but the rear is a bit different, it falls sooner and it doesn't have that small bump at the rear but the Aurora is longer, I feel the shape to be more natural than the g100s at the rear. For the front, it's the same story, the front is less high on the Aurora and that's why I prefer the g100s there, there is more room for my fingers.
The overall feeling is that the Aurora is longer and flatter than the g100s. Less bulkier than the WMO.
Even with big hands you can palm grip it easily.

The cord is flexible and feels right in my hand... But in game that's a different story to me, since I have the g100s, I tend to like thin and stiff cable more because it interacts a little to none in the movement, I can still feel the cable with the Aurora but I think that's a matter of being used to.
It had the thickness of the MS/zowie cable, it's a bit less flexible than the Zowie one but not by a large margin, if you like the Zowie cable, you'll like this one for sure, maybe even more.

The buttons now... I've already stated in the thread that the mouse1 and mouse2 are a bit stiffer than the WMO, but less than the FK, they are ok to my taste, they feel secure but soft at the same time, and has a good reset. I would say the right middle between the softness of the WMO and the secure feel of the FK. Unlike the FK, the actuation point happens really fast like on the g100s. I was surprise when I switched to the g100s from the FK, because at first I was shooting rockets far more too early compared to the FK. The travel distance of the mouse1/2 was clearly far too high on the FK. Weird...
The Aurora is a right handed mouse as it has mouse4 and mouse5 on the left side (lefty players, you can use it if you don't need the side buttons). The position is absolutely perfect for me, the 2 buttons lays down right under my thumb, the only complain I can make is that they are quite hard to press.
I remember some issues that side buttons can be activated by squeezing the side, but it's not the case anymore. I couldn't reproduce that with my model.

The scroll wheel has been debated too in the thread. For me, the actual position is a bit too far back for my actual grip (and won't be changed in the release). But I can be used to the position. I have the same "issue" on the g100s but now I'm fine.
The steps are clear and well defined, the m-wheel reminds me the FK's one. h8m3 stated that it's a bit more closer to the Abyssus. I find it quite similar to the g100s aswell. So no worries... Or maybe with the click ! It's a bit hard to click with my sample.

There is a mouse6 button which is the Switch mode between the DPI steps, it's not under the mouse like on the Zowies. It can be bothersome for some, but the position is ok for me, it doesn't interferes with my grip, the button stands right in the middle of the my index and middle finger.

The mouse feet are teflon, and weirdly enough, it doesn't glide like the lightning on my Hien... I was afraid at first because the mouse feet are smaller than the WMO, so less friction. Too bad that I can't use the hyperglides... But I know that BST is in touch with some factory to make some nice mouse feet. Maybe he can ask takasta on ebay that runs (or actually sells products from) Tiger Gaming, takasta can produce mouse feet that come from the same factory as Razer.
These are factory stock, and are fine. They are just a bit uneven, I can feel that all the feet don't have the same height and the mouse isn't perfectly flat on a table/hard mousepad, on a cloth pad, it's ok as the mouse digs a little in the cloth.

Last but not least, the sensor... It's the Avago 3090, the DPI steps are 800 / 1600 / 3200 / 4000 on my test sample. To use the 400 dpi step, I need to install the drivers but I didn't do it for now.
I did test the Aurora in game with several mousepads :
- Qck Heavy
- Artisan Hien Soft Red and Black
- Artisan Hayabusa XSoft Black
- Artisan Zero XSoft Black
- Razer Goliathus Speed

I've only used the 800 dpi step in game. They all feel great on windows, they don't jitter and are stable.
The LOD is low, and even too low on black mousepad... I had the issue that the sensor doesn't track as well on black mousepad as on my Hien Red.
So I've played mostly with my Hien Red, and it's really awesome, it's flawless right there, I feel that the sensor tracks really well on small and micro movements, the feeling is really different on the g100s. On the Logitech mouse, it's a bit slower in that department that makes the track more controlled but harder to master (I'll be fully used to it in few months maybe...). To say the least, it's similar than the Zowie FK for the most part. The small movements are exactly the same and I had a beastly LG with the FK, and for the flick shots, it's precise but not as precise as the g100s. Overall if you've used a 3090 before, you'll find the same feeling.
It's a clear upgrade from the WMO, similar to the FK, but I prefer the g100s sensor. It seems that the 3055 used in the g100s fits better my play style than the 3090 (32cm/360, using my arm for movement and my wirst to adjust and aim, I put my arm on the table like the Russians play style).

To summarize, the Aurora is a really great mouse, it has all what a hardcore gamer need, lightweight, really good shape with a good grip thanks to the rubber and the grainy plastic, soft and secure buttons, all that working together with a 3090 sensor from Avago that have been really polished which tracks really well. Only the LOD and the mouse wheel have been bothering me during my tests.

If you have any questions, or points that are not clear ask me !

10%

<< Comment #2476 @ 15:52 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2475

Could you comment more on the mouse cord? As you can google, I have a fixation with the shitty WMO cord.

<< Comment #2482 @ 05:02 CDT, 10 August 2013 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #2476

The cord is no way near the WMO cord, it's far more flexible and lighter. It doesn't have that "strain relief" that the FK cord has all over the USB cable, which make the cable a bit less flexible but lighter and less sensitive to big movements. I don't feel the cable as much as the FK or WMO cord.
It's quite nice that the cable straightens easily, it doesn't keep the bends that the packaging creates and you can mod the cable as you want.
I usually strip down the MS cord, here it won't be necessary.

I said that I prefer the g100s but that's only because of the sensor that suits better my play style, some may find the other way around. I find the shape better on the Aurora while it's quite similar.
The only 2 mice that I'll keep are the g100s and the Aurora. I'm selling all my other stuffs.

<< Comment #2477 @ 15:57 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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terrorhead - Reply to #2475

Thanks for the review.

<< Comment #2478 @ 16:37 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (86.217.2.77) - Reply to #2475

I just read your block of test, summary is = he think g100s is better.

<< Comment #2561 @ 20:50 CDT, 29 August 2013 >>

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MaximilianKohler - Reply to #2478

Only 3 buttons though :(

<< Comment #2513 @ 19:00 CDT, 14 August 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2475

so all in all... do you like the switches better than the g100s (and other mice)?

<< Comment #2515 @ 05:49 CDT, 15 August 2013 >>

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fishbone_ - Reply to #2513

Hum difficult to say but it's pretty much a perfect balance between soft click and good feedback. So ye I really like the switches as much as I like the g100s ones. No real winner here.
And compared to other mice (Microsoft and Zowies), I would say the Aurora is better. Not as mushy as the MS, and better feeling than the Zowies.

<< Comment #2527 @ 11:57 CDT, 21 August 2013 >>

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no_il - Reply to #2475

You'll really like this mouse then, 3050 inside an Aurora shell:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1420402/i-rocks-7810r

<< Comment #2479 @ 18:08 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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petejones

BST please fix LOD before release? that ultra low LOD on the AM is so annoying.

<< Comment #2480 @ 19:45 CDT, 9 August 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2479

I think it just needs thinner feet, from 1mm to 0.5mm. I had already switched to 0.5mm a while back but those samples were made when the spec was 1mm.

The 1mm feet take it out of the recommended tracking distance in the datasheet anyway (that was my original reason for changing them to 0.5mm). Also having used both, the glide feels better with 0.5mm.

I was a bit surprised to hear it though, because I used the mouse for quite a long time with 1mm feet and 2 different black pads and didn't have any problems at all.

I just tried a black Roccat Taito pad and 0.5mm feet: with 2 CDs under it, it won't move (unless I press down on it a bit). With 1 CD the tracking is smooth and I can lift it up and it will still track in the same way for about 1mm.

<< Comment #2481 @ 00:26 CDT, 10 August 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2480

How does that affect the durability of the skates? I'm not sure what the industry standard on thickness for mouse skates is but most aftermarket skates are 0.8mm... not sure how much that matters. But if it doesn't have that scratching like the DA because the mouse feet are too thin, I probably wouldn't care anyway.

<< Comment #2486 @ 01:46 CDT, 11 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.155) - Reply to #2481

It cuts it in half... duh! Kids these days...

I think the standard is 0.45mm. The ones that come on the Zowie mice are 0.4mm. The free feet in the Zowie box are 0.45mm and the after market feet are 0.6mm. I think the stock feet on the DeathAdder is 0.45mm. Most after market feet are 0.5mm or 0.6mm. Intellimouse feet are 0.8mm if I remember correctly.

The reason why the feet are thin is because you have to stay within the operating range of the sensor or bad things happen. You only get 0.1mm above or below the specification. Hence why after market feet are 0.5mm or 0.6mm.

Even with 1mm feet your mouse could scrape the pad if you are using a soft foam cloth pad.

A LOD of 1.8mm to 2.5mm is fine. With a standard lens it seems like anything but black lowers LOD. With the Zowie lens it seems like anything but black raises LOD. Looks like the focal length, diameter and angle of refraction is larger on the Zowie lens.

You are likely using a black pad. The worse kind of pad...

A CD can be 1.2-1.3mm thick.

<< Comment #2487 @ 04:00 CDT, 11 August 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2486

Are you implying that black mouse pads increase LOD? Because as far as I know its the opposite.

As far as aftermarket skates go, hyperglides are 0.8mm, so are puretraks, except for the HD ones which are 1.2mm. Those are the most popular as far as I know.

Interesting info about the feet of other mice though. Would have thought zowie's were thicker. I'm sure the aurora's will be fine.

Edited by petejones at 19:39 CDT, 11 August 2013

<< Comment #2493 @ 15:49 CDT, 12 August 2013 >>

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Tsubaki

bst, i dont know if its been mentioned but is it optimized for low click lag? so it wont have problems with clicking like the laggier mice below

http://www.esreality.com/files/placeimages/20...130518.jpg

http://www.esreality.com/files/placeimages/20...atency.gif

Edited by Tsubaki at 15:50 CDT, 12 August 2013

<< Comment #2501 @ 02:28 CDT, 13 August 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2493

I tested the Aurora vs a G400 (no angle snapping version) with the Bloody gaming mouse shooting speed test (http://www.bloody.tw/en/download.asp).

Using this test they seem to be very similar, sometimes Aurora wins, sometimes G400, but usually by a couple of ms, maximum 10ms (probably if I slip). I don't think its the most accurate test ever, but it should show if two mice are very different.

I put a raised part onto the buttons so that the edges of the shell wouldn't interfere with the test, and I bumped them together in quick succession (didn't 'press' them together slowly). Also both mice running at 1000hz.

Here is a screenshot, G400 is B, Aurora is A:
http://i.imgur.com/Bz7UNmC.jpg

I could do a better test where I solder a single switch to both mice, then they don't need to be bumped together and the results would be more accurate. But at least for now it shows that its not got any major problem with it.

<< Comment #2512 @ 23:41 CDT, 13 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.75) - Reply to #2493

How did they test this? What program? How do I know this is accurate?

<< Comment #2497 @ 19:55 CDT, 12 August 2013 >>

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By

Freiya

So there won't be a 3 button, purist Aurora?

<< Comment #2498 @ 20:33 CDT, 12 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.63.74) - Reply to #2497

with LED and over 9 millions colors customisable! Not even kidding it's in the datasheet.

Dream on. His goal was not to make the lightest mouse, nor to change sensor pos or make a new shape. Its just a g100s copy or whatever with different internals (and over 9 millions colors customisable!).

<< Comment #2500 @ 22:06 CDT, 12 August 2013 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #2498

What do you accomplish by hating on bst and his mouse? If you don't like it, go get a Deathadder and ignore this thread.

<< Comment #2508 @ 12:31 CDT, 13 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (82.124.63.74) - Reply to #2500

Definitly not hating, you are hating me. If it's too hard for you to hear the truth then you have a judgment problem.

<< Comment #2524 @ 12:32 CDT, 19 August 2013 >>

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xero- ' - Reply to #2508

Were you born a retard, or did you just have a terrible accident when you were growing up?

<< Comment #2502 @ 03:01 CDT, 13 August 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2497

lf I do a version without side buttons it'd be the Velocity mouse, its almost the same mouse in every other respect (PCB even fits perfectly (except scroll wheel encoder)). It would have a DPI button on top, but you can disable it or assign it to something else.

I think the factory will make me some Velocity mice when I order the Aurora, have to double check, but such similar mice shouldn't have a big problem with it. I talked about it with them before and they didn't seem to mind, but it was a while ago which is why I want to make sure. I would want to make them at the same time as the Aurora, because if I order them separately, they would probably want me to order a lot more in total.

<< Comment #2504 @ 11:25 CDT, 13 August 2013 >>

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Freiya - Reply to #2502

But Velocity is 3050. : (

<< Comment #2505 @ 12:13 CDT, 13 August 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2504

Its not, its the same as the Aurora - 3090 sensor. I need to update the first post :|

<< Comment #2507 @ 12:22 CDT, 13 August 2013 >>

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XpArTy - Reply to #2505

With the release date for the Aurora ever looming closer, I would say an update detailing all the final specs in a clear fashion for whoever stumbles upon this thread for the first time is really necessary. Some info for the Velocity would not go amiss, either. =)

<< Comment #2510 @ 13:32 CDT, 13 August 2013 >>

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naper - Reply to #2507

Agreed.

<< Comment #2509 @ 13:18 CDT, 13 August 2013 >>

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maza - Reply to #2505

tbh a whole new thread with an update on what's going on at the very moment could be a good idea, this thread is becoming inconvenient :B

<< Comment #2511 @ 15:12 CDT, 13 August 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2509

True, would be better to link to the new thread in the first post.

<< Comment #2514 @ 05:48 CDT, 15 August 2013 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #2511

Don't trip near the finish line muh nigga.

Keep heading straight on, full speed. Get that shit 100% perfect, don't quit until your name is known throughout the internet, until your bank account is rolling in $.

After the mouse, think about pad, after the pad, think about headphones + a new mouse.

Put those ideas in the vault, keep thinking, keep conceptualizing, put them in the vault.

When hard times come, crack the vault, make some hype, get paid.

RINSE AND REPEAT. NEVER STOP. NEVER FUCKING STOP.

<< Comment #2518 @ 06:23 CDT, 17 August 2013 >>

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Eviili - Reply to #2514

fuck brah, Warren Buffet shits his pants while reading your economiks strategy..

<< Comment #2519 @ 07:08 CDT, 17 August 2013 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #2518

warren buffet makes money for fun. seriously watch his biography, nigga has fun making money, not spending it

<< Comment #2516 @ 03:59 CDT, 17 August 2013 >>

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By

yoyoman

Where is the sensor located? is it a bit in the front like the wmo or the exact center? If you haven't seen the thread already this is why i like having the sensor a bit in the front - http://www.esreality.com/post/2410040/new-gam...-and-more/

<< Comment #2517 @ 06:03 CDT, 17 August 2013 >>

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XpArTy - Reply to #2516

Exact centre

<< Comment #2520 @ 14:08 CDT, 17 August 2013 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #2516

It's a very little bit closer to the front but less than on wmo

<< Comment #2521 @ 22:19 CDT, 18 August 2013 >>

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By

KittenIgnition

The most important thing about the mouse for me, aside from the general shape (which looks good from pics), is the placement of the switches for the mouse buttons.

What I want to know is: where are the switches placed? Are they closer to the front, or more towards the back? The mouse I'm using right now has them nearer to the back, but I place my fingers almost at the front edge of the buttons, which causes them to not properly depress quite often.

<< Comment #2522 @ 03:19 CDT, 19 August 2013 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #2521

Doesn't this answer it?
Aurora gallery: http://www.erasem.com/gallery/displayimage.ph...play_media

Please try searching next time. (took ~12 sec) :)

<< Comment #2523 @ 12:15 CDT, 19 August 2013 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #2522

im lazy. no.

<< Comment #2525 @ 15:08 CDT, 19 August 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (141.0.9.62)

Having the sensor further forward isn't good for palm grip players that use their arm for moving the mouse. For those that use their wrist it is better that it is further forward.

I fully palm and use my arm to move the mouse. So, I prefer it to be further back, as close to my wrist as possible. This takes away any deviation with sideways movement. Much like having angle snapping. Flick shots will be a lot easier. Obviously, one disadvantage of having it further back is balance...

If you use your wrist having it further forward gives you more range of movement without having to lift your arm or reset your mouse.

One design doesn't fit all users, unless it is in the middle, which is a compromise.

<< Comment #2526 @ 15:54 CDT, 19 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (90.44.1.93) - Reply to #2525

this is totaly bs. Forward sensor just means sensitivity will get drasticaly raised while having a much much better horizontal tracking.

What you need if you use a mouse with a forward sensor is to lower your sensitivity.

<< Comment #2529 @ 18:12 CDT, 21 August 2013 >>

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By

no_il

I feel kind of bad posting this but I'm sure it would surface soon enough anyways. I-rocks, a chinese gaming peripherals company has just released the I-rocks 7810R, which uses the same shell as the Aurora mouse but with the avago A3050 sensor.
http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1....8767928106
http://www.overclock.net/t/1420402/i-rocks-7810r

It is important to note that this mouse uses the avago A3050 sensor which is avago's entry level gaming sensor and thus is different from the more high end A3090 that is going to be used in the Aurora. Other popular gaming mice which use the A3050 are the new logitech g100s and the roccat lua among others. If you want to know more about the differences between the A3050 and the A3090 read fishbones's review of the Aurora a few posts up in which he goes into more detail and compares it to the logitech g100s and compares between the two sensors in more detail.

<< Comment #2530 @ 18:46 CDT, 21 August 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2529

It's already posted and the possible reasons are above (search "rocks").

In the end what we are looking for is a fine tuned mouse, which no one offers right now.

<< Comment #2531 @ 22:11 CDT, 21 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.157) - Reply to #2530

Don't worry the Kana v2 is coming out before BST's mouse. It should solve everything.

Oh, and, the DeathAdder 3G already did what everyone wants. It isn't ambidextrous though.

The Kana v2 is going to be so awesome. There is no way BST's mouse can compete with it. Only thing he has on that mouse is LED color customization. And, maybe, the cable.

<< Comment #2532 @ 02:00 CDT, 22 August 2013 >>

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SwarmDMX - Reply to #2531

The Aurora on pure dimensions, shape grip weight etc the Aurora is hands down the better mouse. I don't know what sensor the Kana v2 will use but there isn't any better sensor than the Avago 3090 on the market at the moment in my opinion so it won't be any better than the Aurora on that front. The Aurora LOD is also perfect and can't be improved really, so the Kana v2 can hardly improve on that front either. The Aurora has separate mouse buttons shell pieces (like the wmo) whilst the Kanas are the typically cheap all in one shell, so again the Aurora is better. I could go on, but the above should be enough to show that although I'm sure the Kana v2 will be very good, the Aurora has been designed with far greater attention to detail and is overall a much better mouse.

Edited by SwarmDMX at 03:03 CDT, 22 August 2013

<< Comment #2533 @ 03:00 CDT, 22 August 2013 >>

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Tobbe - Reply to #2532

Yeah Kana v2 looks to have bad pinky shape (rear bulges out). no go!
Needs tape trick (according to the review). giggle?

Edited by Tobbe at 03:05 CDT, 22 August 2013

<< Comment #2534 @ 04:41 CDT, 22 August 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2531

lol you don't even have any grounds or evidence to support your claims...
typical hater who wastes his time (which probably won't be spent better anyway) down talking things on the internet.

Edited by petejones at 04:48 CDT, 22 August 2013

<< Comment #2541 @ 15:37 CDT, 22 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.78) - Reply to #2534

Why don't you look it up? Link to the review at the bottom.

<< Comment #2543 @ 16:59 CDT, 22 August 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2541

I have. High LOD (tape fix or not), 1 side button on each side, crappy steelseries drivers, and higher weight. How will the kana v2 solve everything again?
Oh yeah, steelseries will release the grip on your manhood once you have paid them the money.

<< Comment #2563 @ 22:13 CDT, 29 August 2013 >>

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MaximilianKohler - Reply to #2543

I actually prefer the 1 button on each side rather than 2 side buttons on one side. I like to hit the right side button by squeezing my ring finger.

If my current mouse had this I could have used the right side button for push to talk instead of buying a USB foot pedal.

With 2 buttons on the thumb side I have to move my thumb to hit the button which changes my grip so it can't be done at the same time that you're trying to aim at someone.

Edited by MaximilianKohler at 22:14 CDT, 29 August 2013

<< Comment #2535 @ 05:30 CDT, 22 August 2013 >>

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Tsubaki - Reply to #2531

except the kana has jitter, a bad shape and ttc switches

<< Comment #2536 @ 05:44 CDT, 22 August 2013 >>

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By

Lam ' - Reply to #2535

And only one thumb button.

<< Comment #2564 @ 22:16 CDT, 29 August 2013 >>

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MaximilianKohler - Reply to #2536

Na, it's got one button on each side instead of both buttons on one side. I actually prefer this setup.

<< Comment #2591 @ 08:04 CDT, 10 September 2013 >>

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Lam ' - Reply to #2564

Doesn't change the fact that it has ONE thumb button. Unless you have two thumbs on both sides of one hand. Freak.

<< Comment #2618 @ 20:34 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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MaximilianKohler - Reply to #2591

Is it really that big of a deal for the 2nd button to be on the other side? What's the reason you prefer them both on the thumb side?

<< Comment #2538 @ 09:02 CDT, 22 August 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2531

No idea about the kana v2 as I don't live in the future, but the deathadder is unnecessarily complicated (a clan mate bought one and spend like an hour configuring it) and way too expensive for what it is.

<< Comment #2539 @ 15:19 CDT, 22 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.78) - Reply to #2538

It is already out in China.

<< Comment #2537 @ 08:10 CDT, 22 August 2013 >>

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Lam ' - Reply to #2529

Tempting: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/PARIS-STYLE-I-...50871.html

$37 including shipping (2 days of offer left), can't find the normal (not LoL team branded) version that's supposed to cost $10 less. Everyone there sells all versions at the same (higher) price.

(R in 7810R = Reborn confirmed!)

<< Comment #2546 @ 03:54 CDT, 23 August 2013 >>

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winz - Reply to #2529

It doesn't look like the same shape to be honest, it looks much wider.

<< Comment #2548 @ 05:53 CDT, 24 August 2013 >>

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aerobeing - Reply to #2546

According to this page it's 113x63x39: http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1....8767928106
http://img01.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i1/925366...366676.jpg

Couldn't find any mention of the weight though.

<< Comment #2540 @ 15:19 CDT, 22 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.78)

http://www.overclock.net/t/1419598/steelserie...kasta/0_20

<< Comment #2542 @ 15:54 CDT, 22 August 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2540

the sides look a bit short. I'd say what I liked the most about the wmo was the flat sides with tons of space, which isn't the case in abyssus' case for example.

<< Comment #2544 @ 17:05 CDT, 22 August 2013 >>

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ogdiabz - Reply to #2542

Yep, what I personally want is a steelseries sensei raw with an avago 3090 :\

<< Comment #2545 @ 02:13 CDT, 23 August 2013 >>

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By

end0rphine - Reply to #2544

I had a dream about a mouse like that once.

<< Comment #2547 @ 16:37 CDT, 23 August 2013 >>

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By

resis

News?

Edited by resis at 16:38 CDT, 23 August 2013

<< Comment #2549 @ 08:02 CDT, 25 August 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (109.144.131.181)

Is this ever coming out?

<< Comment #2550 @ 16:19 CDT, 25 August 2013 >>

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By

cumrag

i take back what i said about a glossy shell. i prefer the surface of the logitech g100s over the zowie ec2 white. the zowie gets too grimy with sweaty hands, but the logitech is a bit better in that regard while the grip is still OK.

<< Comment #2551 @ 14:45 CDT, 26 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.76) - Reply to #2550

That is only if your a dirty person.

<< Comment #2552 @ 18:35 CDT, 27 August 2013 >>

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By

aodrus

same shape?
http://www.monsterlabs.co.kr/shop/product_detail.html?pd_no=31

<< Comment #2553 @ 02:15 CDT, 28 August 2013 >>

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Anonymous (58.107.70.14) - Reply to #2552

lol it looks exactly the same wow.

<< Comment #2554 @ 04:40 CDT, 28 August 2013 >>

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By

acid_reptile - Reply to #2552

wtf

<< Comment #2555 @ 17:35 CDT, 28 August 2013 >>

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pvh - Reply to #2552

BST stated previously that he is using an OEM shell. Shame that mouse has a pixart sensor and weighs 92g.

<< Comment #2568 @ 18:54 CDT, 30 August 2013 >>

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By

resis - Reply to #2552

Every time I see that wheel so far at the back, I wanna rip my hair out. This is so annoying.

<< Comment #2566 @ 08:54 CDT, 30 August 2013 >>

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XpArTy

So any updates? How are the causes to the delay? Are they close to being remedied? Can you project the launch date? Any estimates? Any further delays? What's going on overall?

**EDIT**
In no way is my post intended to be negative in tone; genuine interest here. Just cant wait to be a part of the Ninox master race.

Edited by XpArTy at 21:14 CDT, 30 August 2013

<< Comment #2567 @ 16:20 CDT, 30 August 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (83.28.46.38)

up@
it's called rebrand dude

<< Comment #2569 @ 15:49 CDT, 31 August 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (78.251.197.186)

Forget about Ninox and grab yourself a TeamScorpion Zealot Jr off ebay, best fingertip grip mouse EVER.

<< Comment #2570 @ 16:14 CDT, 31 August 2013 >>

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terrorhead - Reply to #2569

no side buttons :(

<< Comment #2571 @ 16:28 CDT, 4 September 2013 >>

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By

o.Qv

Jesus plz feed some information .... wtf is this ?

<< Comment #2572 @ 13:05 CDT, 5 September 2013 >>

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lemming#13 - Reply to #2571

A one-man show. There is no fulltime marketing rep able to lurk around the web all the time, repeating himself.

Not to say, that a bit more info would not be appreciated, but it has been like this since bst started this and probably will stay like this until it is finally finished (whenever that may be).

<< Comment #2574 @ 13:34 CDT, 7 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2572

Most times I post information not long after I get it. I'm not too different to everyone here, I wait for news from the factory just like people wait for news from me :)

<< Comment #2573 @ 13:16 CDT, 7 September 2013 >>

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»bst

Some news:

The factory told me that the certification (needed for selling the mouse) should be finished in 2 weeks, and the problem with 400 DPI should be finished in 1 week.

So it looks like it will be out in time for Xmas, I will put up the pre-orders when they finish those two tasks, I don't want to take peoples money in-development, I could have done that a year ago and would have had a lot of unhappy customers now, which is the last thing I want :)

19%

<< Comment #2575 @ 14:10 CDT, 7 September 2013 >>

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terrorhead - Reply to #2573

Thx for the update. Keep up the good work :D

Edited by terrorhead at 14:11 CDT, 7 September 2013

<< Comment #2576 @ 14:23 CDT, 7 September 2013 >>

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XpArTy - Reply to #2573

If you get the cert in two weeks, how long after that until you think you'll start actually moving them?

<< Comment #2577 @ 16:19 CDT, 7 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2576

I hope I can get them delivered to people by Xmas, its going to be about 2 months.

<< Comment #2578 @ 10:50 CDT, 8 September 2013 >>

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By

th3l4st0ne

Sorry if I'm reiterating something that has been said already, but I'd like to ask a few questions:

1: What is the "official" US price for the mouse including shipping?

2: I've been gaming with a trackball for nearly 8 years and like having near-0 friction, how is the tracking on low-friction mousepads?

Also, I'm out of touch when it comes to the best pads, what would you recommend for a 800-1000dpi user?

Thanks in advance

<< Comment #2579 @ 11:18 CDT, 9 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2578

1 - 44.99 USD ( or 29.99 GBP / 34.99 EUR) inc tax.
2 - The tracking is good on any mouse mat really, hard/soft/cloth/ etc. I heard the Icemat (glass pads) don't work so well with this sensor.

There is really a lot out there to choose from, personally I like to keep it simple, I just use a smooth cloth pad - SS QcK, Roccat Taito, Puretrak talent etc. There is some other mats which are like a combination of cloth and plastic, like the Zowie ones - those are lower friction. But they aren't as comfortable and quiet as a soft pad, if that bothers you.

Really at 800 DPI it should track fine on lots of surfaces - I'm not sure what the lowest friction pad is out there at the moment, but as long as its not glass or reflective it should be good.

<< Comment #2580 @ 12:48 CDT, 9 September 2013 >>

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toop - Reply to #2579

Lowest friction cloth mousepad is Qpad CT.
Thanks for the update as well. BTW you will have tough time to compete vs steelseries Kana v2 if they both release at the same time.

<< Comment #2581 @ 13:34 CDT, 9 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2580

Hmmm not sure about that. I have a CT and thought the Talent was lower friction.

Could say that about the Kana, but then could also say if its competing, it gets mentioned in the same breath, so everywhere you see the Kana you see the Aurora by association. I am not too bothered, but yeah I wish I could have released it sooner. But I'm not going to hold back because that mouse is coming out.

<< Comment #2582 @ 14:32 CDT, 9 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (82.120.33.59) - Reply to #2581

What is the performances on icemat? I know g100 dowesnt work good on icemat. Also what other "hard mousepad" have you tested?

ty.

<< Comment #2584 @ 19:36 CDT, 9 September 2013 >>

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nvc - Reply to #2580

ye but the kana only has one side button, no idea why

<< Comment #2592 @ 08:09 CDT, 10 September 2013 >>

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Lam ' - Reply to #2584

Because otherwise even hardcore SS fans would never consider getting a Xai?

<< Comment #2594 @ 15:21 CDT, 11 September 2013 >>

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Tsubaki - Reply to #2592

Sensei
LOL

<< Comment #2621 @ 20:46 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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MaximilianKohler - Reply to #2584

It has 1 side button on both sides of the mouse. Like the IE 1.1.

<< Comment #2585 @ 19:57 CDT, 9 September 2013 >>

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By

dogja - Reply to #2579

i guess $45 isnt bad for the perfect gaming mouse

<< Comment #2583 @ 18:44 CDT, 9 September 2013 >>

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By

petejones

As development comes to a close, i'd recommend you whip up a new thread. :)

<< Comment #2586 @ 00:23 CDT, 10 September 2013 >>

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By

cumrag

why would these two mice take two years to make?

<< Comment #2587 @ 00:55 CDT, 10 September 2013 >>

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By

qlimo - Reply to #2586

Puretrak Valor part two.

<< Comment #2588 @ 07:26 CDT, 10 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2587

How dare you!

<< Comment #2589 @ 07:28 CDT, 10 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2586

Because it was a never ending battle to make it actually decent, instead of half assed.

<< Comment #2593 @ 10:52 CDT, 10 September 2013 >>

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Shuki - Reply to #2589

Are both the mice coming at the same time?

<< Comment #2596 @ 19:36 CDT, 11 September 2013 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #2593

I'm pretty sure he's said somewhere that the Velocity will be released a little later on.

<< Comment #2597 @ 20:32 CDT, 11 September 2013 >>

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XpArTy - Reply to #2596

bst also said that he might do a smaller order of the Velocity in tandem with the Aurora, so it's up in the air until the man himself confirms or denies it.

I'd actually be quite interested in the Velocity myself, it being the cheaper option and me being strapped for cash ATM. Guess time will tell =)

<< Comment #2598 @ 04:47 CDT, 12 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2597

I will find out pretty soon, next few days I hope. The factory told me last night that they finished the Aurora, and they are sending me one today to test. So if all goes well I can start talking to them about the Velocity.

If I can do it, it will use the exact same PCB as the Aurora, so it won't be cheaper like the A3050 version (which I don't know if I'll ever do). The only difference is the lack of 2 side buttons, which comes out at about £1...

<< Comment #2590 @ 07:47 CDT, 10 September 2013 >>

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vitrae

doesnt the kana v2 has millions of cd's of LOD, unlike ninox aurora? if so it doesnt even compare in my opinion, the sooner bst releases the mouse the sooner he'll be making the big bucks, as it will probably be the *most perfect* gaming mouse out there among the great mice.

<< Comment #2595 @ 15:23 CDT, 11 September 2013 >>

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Tsubaki - Reply to #2590

kana v2 is halfassed, they just wanted to sell a mouse with a 3090
jitter and lod issues are probably only half of it

<< Comment #2599 @ 21:55 CDT, 12 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.61) - Reply to #2595

They use the same sensor... Any issue the Kana has the Aurora can have, vice versa.

There is no jitter from what I heard. The LOD is typical of the sensor. Only honest complaint is about the shape.

<< Comment #2602 @ 19:37 CDT, 13 September 2013 >>

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Tsubaki - Reply to #2599

they use the same sensor but different lens, firmware, sensor placement, shape and other things

<< Comment #2610 @ 14:00 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.75) - Reply to #2602

I think you are confused.

The Kana v2 (as far as I know) uses a standard ADNS-3090 and lens with the latest SROM. The Aurora uses the same thing. The Kana v2's MCU firmware is different, it scales native SROM settings for more options, the Aurora scales only one setting.

Again the only thing that is different is the shape.

It looks like the Kana v2 may have better performance than the Aurora. Downsides are the shape and single side button per side.

<< Comment #2620 @ 20:42 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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MaximilianKohler - Reply to #2610

Why is the single button per side a "downside"? I actually prefer it like that so that I can hit the right side button just by squeezing my ring finger.

<< Comment #2636 @ 08:53 CDT, 17 September 2013 >>

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horf - Reply to #2620

some of us have 3 fingers on top and our pinky fingers supporting the mouse...

<< Comment #2669 @ 11:11 CDT, 20 September 2013 >>

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MaximilianKohler - Reply to #2636

If you're not already at a high level with that kind of grip, I suggest you change to only having 2 fingers on top. Your thumb is very strong so thumb vs pinky finger is very imbalanced, thumb vs pinky & ring is better.

<< Comment #2600 @ 05:29 CDT, 13 September 2013 >>

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Petru

Sensor should have had the smoothing/anti-ripple algorithm as low as possible so mouse is responsive. Who cares about very jittery 3200/4000dpi, when it adds like 8 or more ms delay.

Too late now.
Its not gonna be as responsive as MLT04(WMO) or A3060/3080 mice.

<< Comment #2601 @ 19:36 CDT, 13 September 2013 >>

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Tsubaki - Reply to #2600

is this true?
my zowie has same shitty lag :x wmo feels much better but has neg accel

<< Comment #2604 @ 05:10 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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Petru - Reply to #2601

All sensors have some amount of ripple correction, depends how much. Recent ones have higher amount as they push more and more dpi on old sensor architecture.

g400, cm recon are much less responsive than my mx518, tt azurues/mini, a4tech x 760h. I just cant change targets instantly, its slower.

<< Comment #2603 @ 02:26 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2600

I really hope this isn't true for the aurora... But if it is true, I really hope its not too late...

Edited by petejones at 02:28 CDT, 14 September 2013

<< Comment #2605 @ 09:17 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2600

Don't worry about latency, it was a priority from day one.

Look at fishbone's review, he noticed it compared to the G100S. For some reason he said he prefered the "smoothing" on the G100S.

I haven't tried a G100S personally, but all I can say is I love the immediacy of the Aurora, and the tracking is great too (actually he said it: it feels "too precise"). I think maybe smoothing can hide something about your aim that maybe would improve without it, but maybe I'm wrong about that and smoothing really is beneficial for some people - more of a psychological thing than a physical thing, maybe?

I guess I see it like a race car, if you're used to a road car it would feel too highly strung, easier to spin out and stall, but you will go round the track way faster when you get used to it.

Another thing that can cause latency is FW that is bloated. Anyway... I don't want to compare my mouse with others, always feel like I'm going to get in trouble for it, and also I do respect the other companies and people's preferences. Thats why I don't mention these things too much because it nearly always results in comparing other mice :/

<< Comment #2606 @ 10:10 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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By

megaman3 - Reply to #2605

news on stickers

<< Comment #2607 @ 11:07 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2606

Technological advancements in the adhesivistic paperatus department is top secret, sorry.

<< Comment #2609 @ 13:39 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.75) - Reply to #2607

What about the 3090 PCB for the Intellimouse Optical department?

<< Comment #2612 @ 15:43 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2609

Its just an Aurora PCB, so it doesn't need anything special. I'm not going to sell them separately, because:
- I want to do a WMO size mouse after the Aurora comes out anyway
- Its not really much cheaper, since the PCB is the most expensive part
- Its kind of a pain (for me), for not much gain (for you)

I'll post a video up on how to do it, its not hard as long as you have a Dremel tool. You could do it with other more basic tools but the dremel is really fast. The only reason I haven't done the vid yet is because I lost my Dremel, I need to go on a hunt for it :/

<< Comment #2613 @ 15:49 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2612

so you do have that smoothing algorithm to a minimum? because that description you just gave got me horny a little.

<< Comment #2614 @ 16:50 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2613

I don't think its right to say the smoothing is at a minimum. Its more correct to say its done in a clean and efficient way, so that it doesn't break a noticeable threshold. The same level of smoothing can be had in an efficient way or an absolutely terrible way. But of course the smoothing is on the low end, it'll always cause lag if its set too high, but it shouldn't be necessary to do that anyway.

Having said that I didn't program the FW, I only stress to the factory what is important, and test it. I am ridiculously picky and an aim whore, and I love my micro movements with the LG/PG and air rockets which really benefit from low latency. So I know when something feels off, for example the A9500 almost makes me feel sick with its floaty laggy feeling.. the Aurora is so far away from that its crazy.

Edited by »bst at 16:59 CDT, 14 September 2013

<< Comment #2619 @ 20:37 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2614

Thats what im talkin bout sonnn

Edited by petejones at 15:24 CDT, 16 September 2013

<< Comment #2625 @ 16:20 CDT, 15 September 2013 >>

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resis - Reply to #2614

Awesome. I'm not much of a competitive gamer myself, more into single player games, but I am very sensitive when it comes to flawed mouse behaviour. I need a very accurate mouse so that it feels right and in line with the hand eye coordination, I call it the "mouse experience"

Of course I'll play competitive games also, but I am looking for a mouse that does all of it good.

<< Comment #2615 @ 17:03 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.140) - Reply to #2612

You have put an Aurora PCB into an Intellimouse Optical? I have seen the pictures of the PCB in a Wheel Mouse Optical.

Being able to use a 3090 in the Intellimouse Optical's body is a huge gain. Having a 3090 in the Aurora body isn't, when you factor in the other 3090 mice out there. Comfort is arguably more important...

<< Comment #2617 @ 17:16 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2615

No, it only works with the WMO. You could maybe do it with the intellimouse, but it wouldn't be anywhere near as easy.

I used to use an Intellimouse optical, I loved it (for years). But I don't think its as nice as the Aurora shape. I would never go back, even if it had the A3090 sensor. So hopefully that tells you a little bit... :D

<< Comment #2622 @ 11:40 CDT, 15 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.59) - Reply to #2617

The Aurora shape is to small and the scroll wheel is to far back. The side buttons look like they are placed to high.

<< Comment #2623 @ 11:58 CDT, 15 September 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2622

Too far back if you have that freaky "flatten my hand over the mouse with my fingers hanging off" style maybe... just get an MS 3.0 or something.

Edited by petejones at 12:02 CDT, 15 September 2013

<< Comment #2628 @ 02:42 CDT, 16 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.158) - Reply to #2623

If you want a claw grip mouse why don't you get a Kana v2?

This mouse is almost 10mm shorter than a Diamondback, AM, FK, Sensei, Kana, Intelimouse, Wheel Mouse, etc.

<< Comment #2631 @ 07:02 CDT, 16 September 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2628

I don't have to get a Kana v2, the Aurora is already perfect for me. In reality, that full palm grip style isn't common, and most agree that "ergonomic" shaped mice like the DA and MS 3.0 are well suited for it. Don't expect a mouse that's trying to suit everyone's needs to comply to obscure standards that few people need.

<< Comment #2634 @ 12:33 CDT, 16 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.158) - Reply to #2631

Palm grip isn't the most common grip for FPS players? I didn't know it was so obscure. I guess all those people that loved using the WMO, IMO, IME 3, for a palm grip were weirdos.

Everyone uses a finger tip grip or claw grip?

<< Comment #2635 @ 15:23 CDT, 16 September 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2634

That's not exactly what i'm saying. Most people have some combination of all three without actually being any extreme. I, for example, use something between a finger grip and a claw, while a friend of mine uses a strange combination between palm and claw. A "pure" palm grip style (where all parts of the hand attempt to flatten onto the mouse) is somewhat uncommon, and most of the FPS players you're talking aren't doing exactly that.

And even if they did, I doubt they'd come to a forum talking about mouse wheel position like its an Achilles heel (as far as shape, i'm quite sure plenty of "palm grippers" would like it) when everything else about the mouse is great.

<< Comment #2624 @ 12:59 CDT, 15 September 2013 >>

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Petru - Reply to #2622

This is not 100% palm grip mouse, such wheel position is good for fingertip and claw grip.

<< Comment #2627 @ 02:42 CDT, 16 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.158) - Reply to #2624

The length does stop a nice full palm grip. It's to high to be a nice finger tip mouse. The shape doesn't look like it's the best for a claw grip.

The mouse looks like it's trying to be everything in one. We all know how that turns out.

<< Comment #2630 @ 04:04 CDT, 16 September 2013 >>

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XpArTy - Reply to #2627

So you already have the mouse and are able to comment about it? Nice.

<< Comment #2632 @ 09:10 CDT, 16 September 2013 >>

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zealot - Reply to #2627

the shape you are talking about is used in these logitech mice, among others: the original pilot, mx300, g1, g3, g100, g100s, but yeah... "it's trying to be everything in one and we all know how that turns out" :S

<< Comment #2633 @ 09:29 CDT, 16 September 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2627

Seems like the Velocity fits that style better, which uses the exact same components and fine tuning so go for that one.

though the best decision is to buy what comes with a sticker

Edited by megaman3 at 09:32 CDT, 16 September 2013

<< Comment #2608 @ 12:49 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #2600

you took '8 or more' out of your ass

<< Comment #2611 @ 14:04 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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XpArTy - Reply to #2608

Yeah, no shit.

What an asshole, if you ask me.

<< Comment #2616 @ 17:06 CDT, 14 September 2013 >>

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Lacceh - Reply to #2608

Ya, that's BS.

<< Comment #2626 @ 18:03 CDT, 15 September 2013 >>

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By

B4ZE

Hi BST.

I play on icemat, you previously said your mouse doesn't work well on icemat. Can we have more informations as to how good it performs on it? I know from my experience that icemat reduces mouse LOD. What in your opinion makes the mouse act worth on icemat?

<< Comment #2629 @ 02:42 CDT, 16 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.76) - Reply to #2626

It's because these sensors use a LED. There is nothing you can do, it's the way the world works.

<< Comment #2637 @ 12:13 CDT, 17 September 2013 >>

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»bst

Update:

The development stage is now over :D
I got a new sample today and everything is working perfectly (including 400 DPI). Feels great that I don't have to worry about the software or FW any more, and can be confident about its specifications, and that its going to satisfy people when they buy it.

Just waiting for the certification results now, it shouldn't be long, hopefully just a few days now. Then I'll promote it a lot more and ofc let people order them ;)

22%

<< Comment #2639 @ 16:48 CDT, 17 September 2013 >>

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Sopsy - Reply to #2637

MY BODY IS READY.

<< Comment #2640 @ 17:40 CDT, 17 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.60) - Reply to #2637

Is the 400 setting created by the MCU or the sensor?

<< Comment #2642 @ 18:22 CDT, 17 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2640

MCU, it gets it from 800 DPI.
If you think thats a bad thing, let me try to reassure you:
- Its not laggy (feels no different to 800 in that regard).
- It doesn't jitter
- It measures at precisely 400 DPI
- Theres no positive or negative accel
- It got 4.85m/s on enotus (cloth pad)

<< Comment #2643 @ 18:36 CDT, 17 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (80.223.82.218) - Reply to #2642

Can you tell the perfect control speeds for the other DPI steps as well? I'm personally most interested in the 800 DPI step.

<< Comment #2644 @ 18:42 CDT, 17 September 2013 >>

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Petru - Reply to #2643

http://www.esreality.com/post/2363237/re-new-...pid2363237

<< Comment #2646 @ 22:51 CDT, 17 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (212.85.184.5) - Reply to #2637

omg, omg! yeeeeeaaaAAAAH, it is ON! B)

<< Comment #2648 @ 00:11 CDT, 18 September 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2637

AND THEY SAID YOU COULDN'T GET IT DONE

<< Comment #2638 @ 12:23 CDT, 17 September 2013 >>

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By

krayzee

NOW ITS ON LIKE DONKEY KONG. btw will there be pictures and/or videos soon? pwetty pls

Edited by krayzee at 12:26 CDT, 17 September 2013

<< Comment #2641 @ 17:40 CDT, 17 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.60) - Reply to #2638

There is at least 69 pictures already. Why do you need a video of a mouse? I can understand if it was a video comparing the shape to other mice and the user's opinion about it.

<< Comment #2645 @ 19:10 CDT, 17 September 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2641

lol all this guy does is talk shit.

<< Comment #2650 @ 15:04 CDT, 18 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.77) - Reply to #2645

All you do is brown nose. Grow up already.

<< Comment #2653 @ 17:19 CDT, 18 September 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2650

Yup i'm brown nosing so I can get the BETTER version of the aurora. got me.

It's not like you don't try as hard as you can to disparage the project every time you post, while consistently being wrong...

Edited by petejones at 17:55 CDT, 18 September 2013

<< Comment #2658 @ 12:51 CDT, 19 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.76) - Reply to #2653

You are very funny, boy.

I am sure I know a lot more than you. Could I be wrong sometimes? Obviously, I can be. On the other hand, I strongly doubt you know enough to call people out.

You are like a PR manager.

<< Comment #2660 @ 14:08 CDT, 19 September 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2658

"I am sure I know a lot more than you."

Sure, bro.

<< Comment #2671 @ 19:54 CDT, 20 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (217.212.230.224) - Reply to #2660

Oh! You agree. As expected.

<< Comment #2673 @ 21:32 CDT, 20 September 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2671

lol... pathetic.

<< Comment #2647 @ 23:20 CDT, 17 September 2013 >>

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krayzee - Reply to #2641

Those pictures are like a year old, i want to see what the finished product looks like obviously. You explained the video part.

<< Comment #2649 @ 02:22 CDT, 18 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2638

There will be soon, theres still a couple of little things being done with the final look, thats the only reason I haven't taken photos yet.

<< Comment #2651 @ 15:13 CDT, 18 September 2013 >>

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naper - Reply to #2649

Website coming soon?

<< Comment #2652 @ 16:50 CDT, 18 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (95.244.240.55) - Reply to #2649

i think i'm in love with you <3

<< Comment #2654 @ 19:24 CDT, 18 September 2013 >>

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B4ZE

Enotus Mouse Test is not reliable, it detects my WMO at max speed 6.64 which would beat your mouse. In reality i doubt wmo can get so far.

<< Comment #2655 @ 19:28 CDT, 18 September 2013 >>

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h8m3 - Reply to #2654

it's reliable enough if you test it by slowly increasing the speed, moving it in single axis and obviously watching that it doesnt skip while testing

<< Comment #2656 @ 20:42 CDT, 18 September 2013 >>

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B4ZE - Reply to #2655

I tried again. After testing many times it often got 1.63 indeed. But then again it sometimes show erronous numbers, could easily fake thoose numbers just to make screenshots.

<< Comment #2657 @ 23:15 CDT, 18 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2656

Yeah ofc, you can fake it easily, no one ever said you couldn't :)
eg: here is a fake one I just made: http://i.imgur.com/gQsHemZ.jpg

But the results I get are consistent with the A3090's abilities. Back when I posted the 800 DPI result, I didn't know that was about the most you could theoretically get from the A3090 - if I was faking it, I could have easily 'overshot' and the lie/mistake would have been obvious.

Heres a real/normal test I just done with the Aurora at 800 DPI:
http://i.imgur.com/qgASwgs.jpg

Heres a test of a WMO using the same method I use with the Aurora:
http://i.imgur.com/oGPxUfz.jpg
(so you can see the same method gets accurate results on another mouse)

When I make a new thread I'll ask some of the beta testers to do the test. I will send out some of the new ones as well, so people know it didn't get worse all of a sudden ;)

Edited by »bst at 02:58 CDT, 19 September 2013

<< Comment #2659 @ 12:58 CDT, 19 September 2013 >>

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By

abso

so where/when can i buy this baby in germany?

<< Comment #2665 @ 00:22 CDT, 20 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2659

Pre-orders are only available on the Ninox website (but the stock will be in multiple locations, like Germany). It won't be long until you can pre-order it, I just want to see what happens with the certification, shouldn't be long until I find out about that, then I should have a good idea of the actual release date.

<< Comment #2662 @ 14:30 CDT, 19 September 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (84.238.88.67)

Any recommended mousepads with this mouse?

<< Comment #2666 @ 00:26 CDT, 20 September 2013 >>

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By

»bst - Reply to #2662

Just a standard cloth pad, like puretrak talent, QcK, is fine. Its what I've been using.

<< Comment #2661 @ 14:30 CDT, 19 September 2013 >>

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croaton

I have zero idea how distribution would work.

But if you need any form of leverage, remember we're here.

<< Comment #2667 @ 00:27 CDT, 20 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2661

Thanks :)

<< Comment #2663 @ 14:30 CDT, 19 September 2013 >>

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By

croaton

I have zero idea how distribution would work.

But if you need any form of leverage, remember we're here.

<< Comment #2664 @ 23:38 CDT, 19 September 2013 >>

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By

beefheart

Please make a new thread for the official pre-order launch! This is one unwieldy big bitch thread we got goin here

13%

<< Comment #2668 @ 11:01 CDT, 20 September 2013 >>

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By

Anonymous (86.63.252.44)

Shit my WMO is really dying fastly, i need this mouse now, looks like the perfect light weight and shape mouse, i don't think it's gonna survive until xmas, someone can recommend me a mouse in the same style as WMO, just need 400dpi, good sensor, good shape, no prediction and weight and good slides, not even need side buttons, expect this future mouse i can't find a good one with those spec :/

Great work for all this anyway, i look forward to it.

<< Comment #2670 @ 13:21 CDT, 20 September 2013 >>

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illwill_ - Reply to #2668

Why don't you just buy another WMO

<< Comment #2672 @ 19:54 CDT, 20 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (217.212.230.224) - Reply to #2670

Because people think there is a mouse out there that's better than the Microsoft mice. Which there isn't.

<< Comment #2674 @ 01:21 CDT, 21 September 2013 >>

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cumrag - Reply to #2670

they're no longer stocked by major retailers.

<< Comment #2675 @ 12:21 CDT, 21 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (86.63.252.44)

Well i think about buying a new WMO, change the feet, this would be already very good, the perfect thing would be to change the usb cable aswell, i got an ikari one maybe this can work, but i have to find a WMO that as an USB removable cable, apprently this exist but i don't know which one it is, i got the black and it's not removable, any information ?

The last problem would be the max 1.5m speed something then but thats pretty ok.

<< Comment #2676 @ 04:48 CDT, 25 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (67.194.44.201)

Heeyo, just chiming in to see there is an estimated date for pre-orders on this. Also just wanted to hear people's comparisons between the Zowie FK and the Aurora, kinds of like a pros/cons thing.

Any help would be appreciated!

<< Comment #2677 @ 07:57 CDT, 25 September 2013 >>

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vitrae - Reply to #2676

hello

i was in the same dilema about 1 month ago and decided to buy the zowie fk. I regreted it:

dpi are not accurate (1150 dpi feels like 1250 or smt) and at 450 dpi (wich is not exactly 450 dpi) theres like some *mouselag* reaction or slight delay. Some people will argue its not there but if you use a CRT you notice it right away. My g400 is much more responsive.
At 2300 dpi feels better but, ofc its not 2300 dpi its like MILLIONS of dpi and so it sucks by default.

The only good aspects of FK were shape, weight, LOD and glide on my qck heavy. Needless to say none of that mattered because the mouse is ruined by dpi alone. So I have to advise you to wait for bst's mouse, I lost all my trust in all brands and im doing ALL IN on Ninox. Tired of wasting money on other companies :)

GL

<< Comment #2678 @ 21:25 CDT, 25 September 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2677

This is basically my experience. Except not only Zowie, but also Razer, Steelseries, and Logitech.

<< Comment #2683 @ 13:36 CDT, 26 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.76) - Reply to #2678

Dishonest...

<< Comment #2685 @ 15:18 CDT, 26 September 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2683

who are you to say that? once again, just a shit troll (or idiot) talking shit...

<< Comment #2687 @ 18:06 CDT, 26 September 2013 >>

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tbone - Reply to #2677

450dpi on DA = ~620dpi on Zowie FK (Did measurements)

I have no idea why they say its 450dpi.

<< Comment #2694 @ 07:14 CDT, 30 September 2013 >>

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kevz - Reply to #2677

its called 'changing your sens ingame'.

and you shouldv known the FK uses a custom lens to alter LOD and DPI.

1150 here, tracks perfectly.

<< Comment #2679 @ 09:13 CDT, 26 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2676

I'm hoping pre-orders can be placed next week, I'm just working through a few final things at the moment (nothing big, just little tricky things which always take more time than they should, lol)

<< Comment #2689 @ 21:22 CDT, 28 September 2013 >>

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xero- ' - Reply to #2679

Can't wait! :D

<< Comment #2690 @ 23:20 CDT, 28 September 2013 >>

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pet_cia_mole - Reply to #2679

Next week? That's forever.

How many can I order? I wanna get four.

<< Comment #2691 @ 04:23 CDT, 29 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2690

Theres no limit, but depending on how many are ordered I might have to limit how many can be ordered in the 1st batch and then make a 2nd release date for the next batch.

<< Comment #2692 @ 19:26 CDT, 29 September 2013 >>

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toop - Reply to #2691

How long it will take to ship after preordering is done?
Any specific website can I preorder from or you are selling online retailers like amazon ebay etc

<< Comment #2696 @ 15:06 CDT, 3 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (98.197.41.87) - Reply to #2679

It's "next week" by the way.

<< Comment #2702 @ 16:13 CDT, 3 October 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2696

I know.... :D
As is usually the case I'm waiting for someone else to do something (to do with the delivery charges).

<< Comment #2715 @ 09:21 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (173.165.161.185) - Reply to #2702

Where's that preorder? Getting antsy.

<< Comment #2680 @ 10:05 CDT, 26 September 2013 >>

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RentoN

Awesome.
Are you shipping to europe aswell?

<< Comment #2681 @ 11:26 CDT, 26 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2680

Of course :)

<< Comment #2682 @ 13:22 CDT, 26 September 2013 >>

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RentoN

I meant like right from the start?
Or will the EU release be a bit later?

<< Comment #2684 @ 13:48 CDT, 26 September 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2682

The release date will be the same for the whole world.

The postage should be £6 but its something I am still confirming. But it will be the same price for everyone, and any amount.

<< Comment #2686 @ 17:26 CDT, 26 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (78.28.19.169)

Will u place last enotus test some vid with aurora before selling it?
And will be able to purchase some additional mousefeets to it? Or its the same size of mousefeets as ime 3.0 so i can buy them in my country.

<< Comment #2688 @ 05:02 CDT, 27 September 2013 >>

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Anonymous (78.28.19.169) - Reply to #2686

Ok i found answer about size of mousefeets :)

<< Comment #2693 @ 19:44 CDT, 29 September 2013 >>

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KittenIgnition

BST, is there any chance I could get a white version of the Aurora? :D

I'm going to get a super sexy white theme going with my setup, so a white mouse would be nice.

<< Comment #2701 @ 16:11 CDT, 3 October 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2693

Not at the moment sorry :(

<< Comment #2708 @ 00:02 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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KittenIgnition - Reply to #2701

Will it be possible in some future time, perhaps? I would pay top dollar for that.

<< Comment #2695 @ 14:53 CDT, 3 October 2013 >>

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nemecel

I havet checked out this thread for a while so: I want to replace my WMO. I want the same shape or the most identical one, I just want to be able to plug and play in 500 (or even 1000 if there are no problems) hz, I play at 1280x720 so I dont want fancy dpi stuff or anything. I just want to avoid the problems the WMO deliver (you need .reg files, you need to boot Win 7 in admin mode to install hidusf and boost it to 500hz...) its a pain in the ass.
Whats the better mouse for me to buy then?

<< Comment #2697 @ 15:08 CDT, 3 October 2013 >>

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megaman3 - Reply to #2695

but you are the WMO guy. Can't replace it, ever.

<< Comment #2698 @ 15:23 CDT, 3 October 2013 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #2697

I wish I could. I cant stand the shitty plastic cable, and all the stuff you have to do everytime you play in a computer that isn't yours. Other than that I love the mouse.

<< Comment #2699 @ 16:04 CDT, 3 October 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2695

The Aurora is coming first, actually I'm still a bit unsure about the Velocity, I'm kind of fed up with OEM shells and how they look so OEM, just from how it feels to market it, and having to accept another persons design. The thing is I still don't know how popular the Velocity would be, and it just doesn't seem to be "new" enough to warrant a kickstarter for it (I'd rather do that with entirely new shapes, would get a lot more attention).

You can put the Aurora PCB into the WMO with some mods, depends how much you need a WMO shape, it is very easy with a rotary tool though (eg dremel) and something to stick the PCB down. A small bit of DVD case glued to the scroll wheel switch keeps the wheel held in place. I have completely lost my dremel so I have to buy a new one :/ But I did get a decent video camera so I'll do a how-to soon.

Having said that, the Aurora feels quite similar to a WMO except the back doesn't flare out, which personally I prefer. Its a bit shorter too but not by much. Its mostly the height and width, and curve of the top is almost identical that makes it feel similar. The side buttons don't get in the way unless you hold your thumb up high.

<< Comment #2706 @ 19:12 CDT, 3 October 2013 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #2699

Unfortunately I hold my thump up high.. waiating for that how to. A service where one can send you an WMO and get the mod properly done would be cool too. Honeslty I just want the internals if they are better than the WMO, the cable aswell. The shape for me, I dont think i'll get used to another one.

<< Comment #2700 @ 16:10 CDT, 3 October 2013 >>

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megaman3

Would be great to have an official announcement on the first paragraph, so people don't expect the Velocity coming up and just buy the Aurora.

It has to be said though that the whole mouse is OEM anyway, with the shell used in another one and the sensor improvements will certainly be used by other companies (no ethics in China) , if it isn't used already.

<< Comment #2703 @ 16:55 CDT, 3 October 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2700

It doesn't make that much difference if I develop the FW, they could still take it if they wanted to. Its only OEM in the shell, the FW is specifically for my company.

They can take anything they want, technically. But overall, China doesn't want a bad reputation with things like that, so it has become easier to protect against these things. I expect some low-key usage of the sensor improvements, but nothing too major or released worldwide. They try to hide it, basically. You know like when you're a kid, your parents know you won't take lots of cookies from the jar because they'll know there were some missing, and that would only cause you problems, so of course you don't take lots, but you might take what you can get away with.

<< Comment #2704 @ 18:39 CDT, 3 October 2013 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #2703

dood, OEM shells fucking suck. It makes you look like chinese knockoff shit.

Sell the Aurora and when it gets enough hype + reviews, do a kickstarter (or with your cash, invest) in some new designs.

Really bring out a sick mousepad + mouse combo and SLASH that fucking price, so someone can get that combo really cheap. This will give massive hype.

people are bound to either love the mousepad or mouse - so someone at least will be using your gear. (make the mousepad baller)

And get the ninox website up man. GET IN THE GAME.

Also do an Aurora redesign, after your mouse takes off (maybe on the anniversary of the mouse launching) . So ppl that bought the generic shit will buy another one because it looks sick.

Edited by jamalz at 18:43 CDT, 3 October 2013

<< Comment #2705 @ 18:59 CDT, 3 October 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2704

I will, to all of that :D
I wish I could show my designs of new mice but its just too early.
I already chose the mouse mat winners (there was more than one).
It will happen soon!
And thanks for the motivating posts!

<< Comment #2707 @ 21:19 CDT, 3 October 2013 >>

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resis - Reply to #2705

I agree with mad dawg jamalz.

If Aurora and the accessories will hopefully turn into revenue, than go for a fully self designed mouse. There is still a market for a good mouse, despite the big brands, who are good at selling us sh#t.

<< Comment #2709 @ 02:45 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2705

There's only way to do that mousepad and make everybody like it man... design it like a qck. Solid black (along with other colors maybe), with a small ninox logo on the bottom left. If you can manage to get the perfect surface (i.e. something extremely smooth and washable like a talent), along with the right thickness (enough for wrist to be comfy) and the right size (there should be more than one size but if not, the size of a qck with a little extra width should work perfectly), not to mention price, you'll destroy the competition.

Edited by petejones at 02:47 CDT, 4 October 2013

<< Comment #2710 @ 04:43 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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end0rphine - Reply to #2709

you exactly described the talent...

<< Comment #2712 @ 06:49 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2710

The full sized talent has that bluish hexagon thing (and its also huge) and the puretrak stealth is a little too short. All the regular companies have mouse pads, but its more about the material and size/thickness. If he has a basic solid color scheme with a simple familiar logo design, he'll be able to at least allow everyone that likes his company to choose his over anyone else's. To go past that, he can simply have lots of designs/colors and sizes, and maybe even go into hard mats later on. However, he probably shouldn't go for styles that isolate his customers like that stupid green crap on razer mousepads IMO.

Edited by petejones at 06:52 CDT, 4 October 2013

<< Comment #2711 @ 05:58 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #2709

To be honest, i'd like a mousepad that either:

1. Had consistency (always the same feel) and NEVER wore out but worked on all pads. Like icemat except doesn't get dirty as quick and has a glide with more control.

or

2. Had a really unique feel and lasted 1 year but was cheap enough to double up on purchases or the feel of the mousepad would make people not care about buying multiples at one time.

A normal mousepad isn't going to cut it, razer has like 15 mousepads alone and they have like carrying cases and shit. Also puretrak is solid.

So bst's mousepad needs a hook (bundling them with the mouse is a nice hook)

Edited by jamalz at 05:59 CDT, 4 October 2013

<< Comment #2713 @ 06:51 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2711

Bundling sounds like a good idea... but I don't think he has to do something freaky as a "hook" to do well, but that's just me.

<< Comment #2751 @ 17:23 CDT, 11 October 2013 >>

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MaximilianKohler - Reply to #2711

http://www.amazon.com/HandStands-Super-Mouse-...B0009JCUX2

This is the only mousepad the vast majority of gamers need. I've tried every major (and many lesser known "gaming" mouse pads) "gaming" mouse pad and I'll never buy another one again. They're all a waste of money. The supermat is just as good if not better than all of them.

<< Comment #2714 @ 08:20 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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Petru - Reply to #2705

Mouse pad should have good durable cloth, like 6$ A4tech x7 500mp one, they last 6 months with consistent almost good as new glide, then start to get worse(still 10 times better than qck).
Not that cheap 20$ QCK cloth material that lasts 1.5 months, and mouse already glides bad after one month of usage.
With good grippy rubber that sticks to all table surfaces.

And thin 1mm version, so it feels like hard pad on good flat table,
rather than 5mm fragile princess with soft skin version.

<< Comment #2716 @ 10:35 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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»bst

1st post updated :)

<< Comment #2739 @ 18:53 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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Tsubaki - Reply to #2716

make a video with sensor in wmo modding

<< Comment #2717 @ 10:45 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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»bst

This is some small preview of the mouse mat idea I am going with:

Edited by »bst at 10:46 CDT, 4 October 2013

<< Comment #2718 @ 11:27 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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cumrag - Reply to #2717

keep logo. get rid of the name/color imo.

<< Comment #2719 @ 11:40 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.62) - Reply to #2718

How are people going to know what pad it is when they see people using it? They will know the company, not the actual pad.

<< Comment #2721 @ 12:13 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.9.62) - Reply to #2717

Top left corner is a great spot to place the logo. Maybe you should use a fancy font for the lettering.

You should have a black, (somewhat dark) blue, gray, red, and white colours made for testing. To see what the colours do to LOD, FPS and malfunction speed. Most mouse pad makers don't even think in that manner.

Having the texture consistent both vertically and horizontally is best. You don't want to have a weird feel when you do circular motions...

I don't like thick (4mm/+) mouse pads. 3mm seems like a good amount of thickness. Also 16-17in across is a nice size.

I would like a very smooth pad, but that can be detrimental to sensor performance. You have to find a weave that is smooth yet allows enough detail for the sensor to recognize.

<< Comment #2726 @ 13:05 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2721

Yeah, the font is just a place holder at the moment.

The black pad should give lower LOD, the red should be higher. Not sure how the blue and orange ones will behave but will test them. The tracking was really good on the black one - at 4000 DPI it performs really well, on some cloth pads it will jitter at that DPI step, so it proves the mouse likes to track on this surface. I also used it for about 6 months and it was fine, still like new.

The texture of the surface is nice, but they are always a bit different up and down. The weave is quite thick, sort of like lots of tiny balls instead of a totally flat surface. Its the kind of thing where my skin notices it, but the teflon feet glide over it very nicely. It has less of a sticky feel than a silky pad.

It is about 3mm thick. Definitely not over 4mm. Its just a bit thicker than a QCK+.

The main reason I chose this pad was because its from a reliable factory, which my mouse factory has been using for a while with their products, and also because it tracks so well with the Aurora sensor. I like the feel of the surface too. But its hard to please everyone, so the best I can really do at this point is just to test and describe it as well as I can and let people make their own decisions about it.

<< Comment #2730 @ 14:09 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.156) - Reply to #2726

Is the idea to offer a few functional colours (such as red, white and black) or to offer colours based on fashion (mice/keyboard colour matching)?

By the way. Your packaging for your mouse should have the cable rolled. As in, not having it packaged in the typical zig zag manner. The box should maintain the cable in a loose circle, like when you store a rope. I think Razer used to do that or still does. This will keep the cable straight out of the box.

<< Comment #2734 @ 14:29 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2730

Both really, but if the performance is below a certain point with a colour, I probably wouldn't run it.

But I'll try to do a scoring system in the product description, to give an idea how each colour performs.

I'll tell the factory about the cable rolling, thanks :D

<< Comment #2745 @ 14:43 CDT, 5 October 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2734

Most important question: how does the surface feel compared to the Talent/Qck?

Edited by petejones at 14:43 CDT, 5 October 2013

<< Comment #2747 @ 16:28 CDT, 5 October 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2745

It feels more like a QcK:
http://www.esreality.com/post/2487925/new-gam...pid2488111

<< Comment #2720 @ 12:09 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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generic nickname - Reply to #2717

dusk/dawn, awww yeah

<< Comment #2723 @ 12:27 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2720

Yes, you won both of them :) Congrats :)

Zoot won the Night one.

And Noon was something I came up with to fill the gap.

<< Comment #2732 @ 14:19 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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zoot - Reply to #2723

omgomgomg I won something!

:D :D :D

Very much looking forward to using it and displaying on stream for the world to see :P

<< Comment #2722 @ 12:16 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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azxx - Reply to #2717

you should consider functional colors that are known to contribute to tracking (black, white, red).

<< Comment #2725 @ 13:01 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (80.223.82.218) - Reply to #2717

What size are you thinking of for the mouse pad? Any chance of making it big, like 550 x 450 mm? If not, is there a chance a bigger mouse pad would be released in the future?

<< Comment #2727 @ 13:09 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2725

I was going to get this size first:

Width: 50cm
Height: 40cm
Depth: 3mm

Yeah if they prove popular then I'll do more with them, like bigger sizes. I want to keep it relatively simple for now though.

<< Comment #2729 @ 14:08 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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Petru - Reply to #2727

What packaging will you use: flat or rolled in a box(plastic like qck or cardboard?)?
If rolled in a box can the cloth be facing outside so theres no need to flatten the pad.

<< Comment #2735 @ 14:43 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2729

It'll be rolled so the cloth faces the outside of the box.

I thought about doing it flat, but if its not done right then it'll get crushed when its in the post.

<< Comment #2724 @ 12:47 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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endstufe - Reply to #2717

what will size and the prices be like?

<< Comment #2728 @ 13:14 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2724

I'll say the price soon, still negotiating atm :D
(but it won't be a really expensive one, it will be competitively priced)

Edited by »bst at 13:15 CDT, 4 October 2013

<< Comment #2731 @ 14:09 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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Anonymous (141.0.8.156) - Reply to #2728

Most companies charge a lot for mouse pads because they can make more profit on them than their mice. Maybe you will decide to do the same.

<< Comment #2733 @ 14:23 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2731

No I don't want to do that.

I prefer to keep the company lean so it doesn't have to.

<< Comment #2743 @ 22:06 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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endstufe - Reply to #2728

cool, sounds good. do you reckon they will also work well with zowie mice? I'm looking for a red pad to increase the LOD a little

<< Comment #2738 @ 15:28 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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xero- ' - Reply to #2717

Look great :)

<< Comment #2740 @ 19:58 CDT, 4 October 2013 >>

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jamalz - Reply to #2717

I really like the naming and colored pads.

Here's your tagline.

Ninox: Taming perfection

Edited by jamalz at 20:00 CDT, 4 October 2013

<< Comment #2744 @ 02:42 CDT, 5 October 2013 >>

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petejones - Reply to #2717

Awesome. I personally would prefer no text with logo and its position at the lower left, but still nice.

<< Comment #2746 @ 15:49 CDT, 5 October 2013 >>

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resis - Reply to #2717

I hate logos on top left. If pads have this I turn them around to have the logo at the right. Will turning the pad around have an impact on the sensor performance?

<< Comment #2748 @ 17:52 CDT, 5 October 2013 >>

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»bst - Reply to #2746

It won't affect performance.
But why do you hate it?

<< Comment #2749 @ 17:24 CDT, 6 October 2013 >>

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resis - Reply to #2748

It is kind of in the way. Both visually and technically.

Visually because a right bottom side logo is furthest out of your view and is less perceived. It's there, but doesn't get in your view.

Technically, because often logo imprints have a different texture to them and I can even feel how it feels different if the feet glide over the imprint and the cursor sometimes changes behaviour. I have the tendency to hold the arm/mouse closer to my body (which is the left side of the pad) and often move the mouse to the top left corner, while rarely to the right bottom.

Of course it depends on the mat quality, my Taito has a logo that doesn't feel nor perform different when I move my FK over it, so my opinion may be a bit subjective, but above all it is an aesthetical thing, a pad just looks cleaner with the logo at the right bottom, where I barely see or interact with it, while a logo at the left top is right in front of your eyes and is kind of distracting.