http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...post176339

You have poor reading comprehension

Sarcasm is lost I guess.. :(

But if one thing is clear from the 'Rage' failure.. it's that id software is failing everywhere :)

How long will it take now until Bethesda/Zenimax shut down QL?

Depends on how much it actually costs them. Zenimax is a pretty ruthless company, though. If they get it in their heads to cut QL off, they won't hesitate, and considering the continuing decline of it, i wouldn't be an optimist.

My hope is that the costs of running QL aren't actually significant enough to pull the plug, and they'll allow id to run it as a sort of "pet project". With Rage being a failure, id can still look towards the dormant Quake/Doom fanbase and QL could still, even after all the broken promises and mishandlings, become a conduit for a successful comeback sequel. Maybe it's a pipe dream, though.

It's a massive unless advertised on TV as the next big thing and how you can be cool and win prizes and travel the world playing the most skilled game ever.

I'd like you to the source of this being said, but, I recall quite clearly that Id never, ever joined up with Zenimax in the pursuit of anything but a partnership of sorts, and as a result of which they (Id) would be in total control of their own products.

If this is in any way true, I wouldn't believe Zenimax - atleast not at this early a point in their partnership - would pull the plug on it.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24183

id was most certainly purchased by Zenimax. Every time a company purchases another company, they always say that things are going to stay the same.

How long will it take for Bethesda/Zenimax to disavow from id Software? Raise your glasses for the soon obsolete id Software.

That would be the next logical step after shutting down QL...

quite frankly, it serves them right. a failure like rage is a prime example of how a company loses touch with a gaming community when it cuts itself off from it almost entirely.

Quake 4
Brink
Rage


Has there been a decent game out of that studio for a while yet?

Does Fallout 3 count?

Are you mixing up Publisher and Studio here?

Quake 4 - Raven Soft
Brink - Splash Damage
RAGE - id Software
Fallout - Bethesda Game Studios

ZeniMax has nothing to do with the developement of any of this games. Bethesda Games Studios and id Software only "belong" to ZeniMax and ZeniMax/Bethesda published RAGE (like Activision Inc. published Quake 4 in the past) but they were not actively involved in programming/production of RAGE. Again Bethesda published Brink that was developed by Splash Damage but they did do jack shit in terms of development of the game.

Yeah you're right. Did a derp :(

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1...id-titles/

But I want doom 4 :(

if Doom4 is to be similar to Doom3: Clearly NO!

Doom 3 mp was good

What I hated the most on DOOM3 was the default sounds. I loved the Trent Reznor sounds on the alpha but the original sounds are just so dull.

it's high time they fire those muppets at id. leave carmack to do engine shit and engine shit alone, get bethesda script writers, moddelers, mappers and everyone else.

Please no.

I'd rather see Raven take a stab at Doom 4 over Bethesda, yeah, Raven.

Yeah, but imagine how lifelike and amazingly deep the characters and their animations would be if Bethesda made Doom 4. :D

???

I was sarcastically expressing my distaste for Bethesda's NPCs and their animations, which could use a lot of work. In my experience, many share this opinion.

I hope you fuckin' was or else I'll come down there and beat you up myself.

mappers? u gotta be kidding:
http://images.gamersyde.com/image_rage-12131-1716_0001.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sirmildredpierce/2997953803/

"Hurrrr durrrr, I base developers' skills on the engine that they use, old or new, and with no regard to that engine's capabilities and limitations. Durrrrrr."

it's not the engine, it is the maps
u listening or u looking at the women in red? forget the lights, just observe the brusehs
have you tried to remake maps made by id soft. in other engines? I did
look at a simple door for example on how it's made by id soft. and how the creators of fallout 3 make it

fallout 3 maps are mostly simple brushes with a lot of substract, to emulate partially destroyed houses, bridges, etc, while id soft. maps are full of details, and it is not the engine (see doom3 maps i.e., same story, a regular doom3 map beats by far any fallout 3 map)

Yeah but idsoftware take 6 years per game most of which is polishing their art.

Also the detail you talk about are probably put in by artists, not mappers/level designers.

What are the chances that id wouldn't mess up Doom 4 anyway? I would much prefer no Doom 4, than a horrible abortion of a Doom 4. From a financial perspective at least, it could be time for id to go. They made some great games in the past (obviously), but now I get he impression that they are a liability.

Given the recent comments made by leading people in id software I'd say there is an approximate 900% chance of Doom 4 sucking ass.

can't be worse than doom3, quake4 or rage, but maybe it'll take even more time to develop, and by that time doom4 will be sub par.

This ^^

http://www.cgmachine.com/images/portfolio/large/pl_orbbback.jpg

Dm6?

http://www.cgmachine.com/pages/p_orbb.html

Yup, shows a good example of what (if made) Quake 5 could look like.

If someone ever does make a Quake 5, I hope they get rid of those lame (imo) models and skins that hardly anyone uses. Lucy comes to mind. Orbb I am on the fence about. I know you can force them etc. but some of the sounds can be annoying and just having some of those cheapens the game for me.

I'm using Lucy.

Dude, that's freaking awesome.

Thanks, I know.

Epic fast reply. :D

<3

If someone ever does Quake 5 they shouldn't hire cunts like you. When I started playing Q3 as a kid, the orb model was really fun to watch around on a FFA arena. Every single model on Q3 had a personality. This stuff is crucial, just like eye candy, to get newbies. Every single person that has played Q3 has sometime commented "yeah, I used to hate that eye model (in a fun way)". Same with models like bones. I've found awesome that you could blow in a blood mess a walking neon skeleton in the air in Q3DM16.

These screenshots look awesome. This guy should be hired by ID for the next Quake. I can foresee how they are going to fail again like they did in Q4, with dull models, overloaded with details, looking "too real" (in the wrong way, not in the cool way). Just look at that rocketlauncher. It really looks like it's part of an arsenal designed for gladiators of outer space. The Q4 rocketlauncher is just a dull, brownish looking piece of crap out of a boring marine backpack or something. The Q3 rocket launcher is great. I hope ID doesn't try to "innovate" too much beyond the Q3 artwork because it's just perfect, they nailed it.

I would like a playable version of that. It's just going to be renders? Loving the DM6 screens too. The lights are awesome. The only thing im not digging is that "warning" white and black line. And the floor looks a bit over-loaded. Would like a more clean look to it.

That's cool, I can respect that.

dude , q4 weapon models are maybe 10 times better than the q3 one , just look how the q4 shaft and gl look sexy, q3 is the worst quake when it comes to design

It's just the matter of taste. For example, I find nothing in Q4 what looks good to me, let alone sexy. The whole thing just looks horrible. (but I have to admit I feel the same about Q3 when it's not picmipped.)
I like it clean and simple, exactly how the picmipped QL looks like now, the only thing I don't like are the "new" unpicmipped textures (e.g.:jumpads).

The same applies to the weapons. The retarded and childish LG animation in Q4 makes me "blhe" in less than 2 seconds.

edit: and while I highly respect the work of others, the style of those linked pictures are also look horrible to me, even if they are done well:(

Q4 is disgusting. Just like your taste.

one of the problems why these games fail is because theire too demanding, not everyone has the latest pc components..

That's not true for RAGE. It can run pretty decently on older Hardware. This game has other issues.

I dont want to run a game just "decently" when im playing I want it to be smooth or I dont play it at all.I have q2c 6600, 4gb ram and 9800gt nothing special, it was good back in the days when I bought it, but something tells me I couldnt run this game properly on my pc.. so why bother then!?

RAGE feels to me like it was designed for console then ported across to the PC platform as quickly as possible for a little extra revenue, even the gameplay feels designed for console like and if i actually switched my PS3 on for more than to watch a blu-ray, it would probably play and feel much better than it does on PC.

Being honest though, id software peaked with Quake 3 and anything/everything they have done since has met fierce critisism from those who had any involvement with anything prior to Quake 4.

imo they peaked with Q1.

True, Quake 3 owes a lot to OSP and the other modders out there who pretty much dragged it from the brink of failure.

indeed, we love Q3 because of the community made contents while Q1 was awesome out of the box:)

Yeah i can agree with that :-) Raise a drink to OSP i guess!

I drink to anything tbh:-)

I'll drink to that! :-D

Prosit!

Quake 1 was terrible for competitive play out of the box, hence QW was born.

True, but it was a great game at least, and both single and multiplayer was a lot of fun.

same happened with q2, and you can even say that with return to castle wolfenstein as well (splash damage developed wolf et)

Hope id learns its lesson, allowing and encouraging community-made content in rage, doom4, and most importantly quake live (even with q3 maps and mods support).

The original Quake was pretty dull feature wise until the comunity added all the stuff aswell.

they peaked with doom 1 and quake 1

Perhaps, but I feel Q1 a bit "peakier":)

I think Doom 1 and 2 is where they peaked for single player and coop. Coop especially is great in the original Doom games. Q1 was the first real multiplayer DM on a large scale and then with QW it was the first game with great netcode for all connections. Doom 4 if done right (id probably will fuck it up) could be the greatest id game ever if the nail single player then have great coop and multiplayer too.

the problem with id is they create a technology,
and then they make a game that should make use of it.
But they should first design a game, and then create a technology that is suited to it.
Another problem is that carmack is the head of the id,
carmack is a techguy, but not a player.
Doom and Quake were revolutionary engine wise, and that is why they suceeded ...
nowadays there is more competition and game technology doesn't advance anymore so much, it has become very hard to make a revolutionary game ...
Singleplayer wise Doom and Quake are about equal imho, don't see why Doom should be better.
Doom also offered network play already over IP and serial cable,
the extension in Quake for the TCP/IP protocol was the obvious step when the internet became popular ...
there were also already other services that made it possible to play doom or duke3d on the internet with special software ...
Doom4 imho should get back to the roots creating masses of monsters, i.e. it should be possible to fight 20-30 monsters in one room, these technological restrictions that you only can fight 2-3 monsters per room make the game totally different experience ...
anyway most people here like you recover their opinion from the book masters of doom that I have read now too, and then state that they would have made up their oppinion themselves ...
but I myself experienced the first doom game and when it came out and waited too for quake to come out ... I've been there when these games were released and saw the player and mod-community grow ...
nowadays these new steps in technology are not anymore there and you really have now to make the greatest effort in making the gameplay-design ... a simple copy of Doom won't do the job ...
you have to make a new combination of existing elements while still keeping some of the old school flavour of the old title in terms of gameplay and atmosphere ...
anyway id has become a nobody now, and the Doom brand is also not really strong anymore, compared to Bf3, CoD, GoW, etc. they could as well create another game, because there are really many many shooters out there ... and id has also lost the edge technologywise ... I am not really sure if Carmack being the head of id will make the right gamedesign decision or will chose the right person to make the gamedesign, tim willits was definately a fail ... maybe they should get back to commander keen or something ... make more simple mobile games, because blockbuster titles of today don't seem to be their thing ...

I agree with a lot of that. Doom 3 and Rage were designed tech first, game second. The key elements of Doom single player to me are:

-insanely fast player speed, so you can out run any monster and run circles around hordes of them
-most monsters are weak and die fast
-crazy strong weapons
-monsters fight each other and roam around the levels and usually start spawned, not scripted events
-huge maps, almost maze like
-no sniper or rail guns so everyone is up close, personal, and dangerous

Totally disagree with Q1 and Doom 1 and 2 being equal in single player or coop. See this for the reason why, you can't do epic maps like this in any Quake -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncQf4CClZnk

agree, quake and doom are equally good in sp, but doom has a massive amount of monsters
that video is really insane ;-)

no sniper or rail guns so everyone is up close, personal, and dangerous

that's also a good point ...

still waiting for a shooter with doom gameplay mixed with artistic elements from doom/quake/blood against hell/fantasy creatures with only little technology and non-tech weapons from doom/blood :-)

Another problem is that carmack is the head of the id,

That hasn't been true since Quake 3. He stepped down to do tech work, since Quake 3 didn't sell well.

I don't really view it as a negative from the user perspective. Everyone says the game looks pretty great and is fun to play but that there's not really any story behind it, and therefore you kinda forget it after playing. I haven't played the game yet but this is probably what most people pretty much expected. Id just needs to actually hire some writers for once. Alternatively they could figure out how to have 200 enemies on screen at the same time again, but I'd vote mostly for option 1.

Also hope this makes them refocus on what they're good at: Cool graphics and fast multiplayer experience. Put a bunch of developers on quake, hire a few great screenwriters / writers for Doom 4 so they can get a fast, coherent and innovative plot. Not 1 person single-handedly saving the world from whatever. It's not like people are saying rage isnt fun to play. They're just saying the same story from commander keen is getting old.

Fast movement and 30 enemies chasing you wouldn't hurt either.

it's not really a writer what they need. A SP game needs an atmosphere what can "grab" the player's attention, and a special flow of the gameplay must be maintained, which keeps the player interested in progressing and going further and further.
In one word a good game needs to be directed just like how movies do.

I think we kind of agree. Screenwriter, writer, director, etc. If it's going to be a streamlined experience and have a plot like a movie then it needs more than just cool graphics and fast gameplay. Also, the gameplay isn't as fast as it used to be.

on a sort of unrelated note, does there exist an fps game within an mmo framework? essentially teams/guilds which interact in an mmo environment with missions and shit with the base game remaining an fps (preferably dm style) game?

remember reading daemon which had a description of something similar based on ww2.

I think there have been one or two but they never really took off because it's too awkward of a format. What about Planetside?

That actually sounds awesome :)

There is an FPS game which actually runs inside the world of EVE-ONLINE, but I have no idea if it's already released or not.

It's called Dusk 514 or something, unreleased afaik.

Thanks. It's called "Dust 514", and not yet released indeed.

an fps running inside an mmo? now people use games to simulate the gameplay of other games inside their own games? Mother of God.

Tbh this whole thing sounds like if the guys are just weak on the story design and want to "fill" the gaps with some kind of a megalomaniac bla-bla about the whole thing is happening in the EVE universe, like if it would matter in a COD like dumb shooter:)

I can imagine how they could alter resources and weapons load-out based on what MMO player are sending them into the battle, and perhaps also the number of soldiers.. but there is no way you can balance the fps part enough (e.g: quitters, lags, number of player) to make the end result of the battle realistic and usable back in the MMO game.

yea tought the same too, basically a MMO-based game where you have to aim at your targets instead of just "selecting" them, weapons instead of spells, and thousands of people connected to the same server. Like quake on a map kilometers wide. The only gear would be the weapons you have.

Serious Sam 3 will be the game that has heaps of enemies on the screen!

remember doom 2, hell on earth!

Doom series works a lot better than SS because enemies are always spawned at map start and fight each other and will literally roam anywhere (except up stairs).

it would be pretty scary if they followed you up stairs

I am very eager for great MP stories (like esr forums aren't making enough stories already)

IF QL gets cut off then Fraglove better be prepared for that! It is not possible to kill Quake.

i think the most important thing post-QL is that the community sticks to one place. fraglove seems to be perfect for that (it includes cpma, defrag, osp etc).

however, imo, to attract new players, it really needs a rename so that people know that it's quake and not just a new shitty attempt at a new fast paced fps.

What the fuck is fraglove?

And how about using eDawn for everything aswell?

http://fraglove.com/index.php?a=browse

Oh I see. Thats really meh. I prefer q3 + EDAWN.

better use QL cracked

What are you talking about'?

ql dedicated server, there was a topic on esr recently

link to said post?

www.google.com/search?q=ql+dedicated+server+site%3Aesreality.com

moron

go play bf3 fatty

I have no interest in said game.

gameover id software, now you cannot build anymore on your fame of previous games

'The apparent source says that Zenimax and Bethesda made the decision based on the "the issues and reviews" surrounding RAGE's launch, which in their eyes has demonstrated "a serious lack of confidence in the project management at id".'

:o

Is Id actually making money at all? It took them 6 years to come up with a somewhat mediocre title. It wouldnt be the first prestigous studio to get shut-down over night. Their IP could be further recycled by other Zenimax studios.

probably not but apparently the people at zenimax dont' care, they're only interested in id's engines.

would be cool if someone makes an epic fraglove trailer to advertise the game.

can't get much better than The Contenders 2.

quake3 was, and would be NOTHING without modders.. most maps played are not id's either, so base game is basically the only thing left. Rage may not be what the time demands(haven't played it, i don't think 8400gs is gonna cut it) but it sure as hell is an upgrade from all their previous games, so why the hate. I'm glad they didn't follow in cod footsteps, and made their own game in stead of trying to copy someone else idea like all the other generic shooters. They even tried something completely new with rage, not done before, okay, not as new as doom or quake was in it's time, but still something not done before(maybe i'm wrong).
I'm still to try this game, maybe you're right, but i don't think they'd survive the media bash if they made a "bigger and better doom" still using the doom 2 engine, although i would have bought it, even if it was just a new 32-level expansion for doom 2... on second though, maybe i'm way off.

EDIT: i missed OT and why you think id is capable of making quakelive what you wan't it to be, when every other quake is what it is because of modders, not id. :/

Because in qlive they centralized it so it doesnt matter how good modders are, either the devs add stuff or things remain the way they are.

that, i know, but why keep up the hope when we can still play q3. Not in join a server right now, it's dead i know, but rhetorically.

if quakelive gets closed down, sure. Doubt it would happen before though.

Don't ask me why AFTER, it's just the way things are.