1) wait
2) ???
3) PROFIT!

too late:

http://www.stromverbrauchinfo.de/grafik/crt_monitor_gross.jpg

i hope its not as suitable for gaming as all the other gaming mice/headphones/keyboards etc. are

What?

he means "gaming" hardware is not good at all.

Yes it is.

Ofcourse not all gaming hardware is good, but some of it is of high quality.

no it's not it's all over priced and poorly made.
in most cases anyway.

Overpriced sure, but still good.

The SteelSeries 7G for example, excellent keyboard, but way overpriced.

Or the mx518, good mouse not just for gaming.

ss 7g uses mx black cherry switches, which are beyond terrible for typing (the main use of any kb) so it is not a decent kb even when comparing it with regular rubber domes (way better for typing, not an important difference for gaming).
Actually that keyboard is not overpriced at all considering its features, but everyone goes with ss 6gv2 now.

mx518 is a fine mouse but still is not the most used by pros or by anyone who knows better.

on any case those 2 examples don't make a general tendency. Gaming hardware is not only always overpriced, but also (almost) always terrible.

I'd say the mx black cherry switches are a personal thing, some like to type on it some don't,

But the mx518 is used by a lot of top players in some games, and I know several people that use it that DON'T play games.

As you've said, the mx518 is a fine mouse, it's sure as hell better than a lot of the other 'gaming mice'.

<- mx518 since its release (actually I started with mx 500!) I would love to have that crt though that boenk posted!

I love typing on my cherry black switches :D

Disagree, with your statement about the fact that domes are better than blacks.

Any mechanical will feel better than a rubber, that is fact. I own a SL-**** compaq, which has single dome sliders and I own a cherry G84, which is meant to be one of the best rubber dome keyboard out there. After using a black switched for a few hours, I want one.

Personally, i'm going to go for brown when i buy my nexy board, I still whack out my Model M to use while typing long essays though.

They involve CS players... which are pros, but still - itīs CounterStrike. Where are the ones who really care a lot about their technical equipment? Where is a representative pro player from the Quake community?

cs players are just as serious about hardware as quake players.

check the picture with those "pros"

think again

Ironically those 'pros' haven't played a competitive game in at least 2 years...


Ok, I take that back, the black guy played as a stand-in for 2 matches recently

Yes, thatīs true. But letīs do an analogy with real sports.

Letīs say CounterStrike is like basketball and QuakeLive is maybe soccer. Professionals from both sports in general want to have the best equipment possible. E.g. the best shoe. It has to withstand the stress of use, not too heavy, maybe have a fancy design. But the focus on what exactly has to be improved on the technological side varies, depending on the use.

CounterStrike is a relatively slow game, which has itīs stressful moments of action, but these are just for small moments. I can watch the monitor and well, wait and try not to fall asleep when suddenly action happens but uh, itīs already over.

QuakeLive is a fast paced game, where you have almost always action. Now you could also differentiate between the gametypes and positions someone has during the game. But thatīs not the point.

There are many other games which are graphic intense, require fast processing computer hardware and reliable durable computer interfaces.

As a competitive gamer, you will get on a level, that you might notice the drop of FPS, and in a dogfight, so itīs better to have always stable FPS to see everything happen and not to miss a thing. Maybe you remember the games in which a FPS drop will definitely change your mouse behaviour. That should be avoided.

Afaik, CS players play with 100FPS, thus 100 Hz are enough. Correct me here if Iīm wrong.


But itīs a shame not to have some representative players from a fast paced game, such as QuakeLive, or others, which could push the limit of the hardware specs and also possibly the human reflexes on a new level.


Or am I wrong, and are the following persons on the picture representatives of the gaming community affiliated and experienced with our kind of game?



Iīm worried, that this will be a "good" monitor, but not the best we could get.

Big pile of crap. Actually you need to aim more precisely and quicker in 1.6 then in quake in certain situations. So yeah 1.6 pros usually should know what good hardware should be made off.

I don't agree on that

Arguements? You do need quicker aim in cs because 1-3 bullets usually kill you so you are either on the head with your ch or you ain't. Furthermore is the quake hitbox only one big one and not devided in different parts like in cs which are way smaller hence harder to hit.
There is a reason why every cs player ranted at the tfts back then when the first tournaments used them as their monitors. There is no big difference. You just think there is one ;)

CS movement is slower, therefore you aren't whipping your mouse around nearly as much like you are in an extremely fast game like quake where you are hitting people moving at really high velocities almost all the time. Not to say reaction time isn't just as important, but it's definitely more quick turns more often in a game like quake or even ut. And you have a lot more time to line your shots up in CS based on sound and predictions as well.

Crap again. Have you ever played a serious 5v5 with timed goes? I doubt because if you actually had you would knew that quick turns are essential to prevent getting flashed and have a chance to do some dmg. I will post more tomorrow as I'm tired as hell and need some sleep :x

I said the same things a couple of months ago in a discussion about aiming, they simply do not know what they are talking about.

Both games require the same kind of hardware, CS players do not aim faster or more precise than quakers...
It's all upto the players reactiontime in both games.

needs more nvc

pics of zowies tits?

minimal input delay and minimal response time
what else do you need?

Sharp image?

well the image quality isnt really the most important aspect when you wanna have the focus of creating a monitor for gaming competitions imho

It is easier to distinguish players from surroundings when the image is sharp compared to a blurry image, especially at long range. If you try gaming on a CRT with blurry image compared to a CRT with sharp image, then you will perform better on the one with sharp image when refresh-rate and input lag (most CRTs have 0) is the same.

120 hz?

yeah okay, well i kinda assumed that they arent going for 60hz

Would be amazing if they can push the refresh rate even further though. 200 hz would be a blast 8)

only if they are real hz. There are even 600hz LCD and LED TV screens...all fake just like 120hz on those (google)

It's going to be an LED gaming monitor, so it will be thin, excellent picture and 120hz (possible 200hz. like the 3d tvs are).. Sounds good to me!

days neva finished, massa got me workin

http://www.zazzle.com/cotton_field_mousepad-144236963683678828

hahahah

gl in future

u mad? u negro?

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=917623

worst

Will most likely retail at $300 - $400

Which is understandable, but not at the cost of having to invest in a lame 3d vision video card.

If they can make a:
120hz monitor @1900x1200 w/16:10 aspect ratio
that performs like the 2233rz but with LEDbl and 0ms response which will run through Dsub (VGA), then I'll be impressed.

Not interested if I have to pay another $300-$400 for a video card with 1960's 3d effects for games that can only be run through dual dvi-d.

Its not possible to use VGA for such a high resolution + refreshrate

really? Because I can go pretty high on my iiyama.

http://tinyvga.com/vga-timing

1600x1200 seems to be the max the port can deliver for 100hz, according to this list.

If it's 120hz or above, decent colours, affordable, 16:10 and low response time then I'm all over it


Unfortunately, it probably won't

120hz or above
1ms or less
16:10
can easily switch to 4:3
24"
1920x1200
LED
around Ģ250

wish list.

You mean 24" and 1920x1200 :P

IPS panel would be nice too

TN usually has faster response time

interesting

It is well known that TN panels aren't the greatest at image quality, but very nice colors and viewing angles aren't really a priority in a gaming monitor. The main requirements in a gaming monitor are adequate colors, sharp image, fast pixel response time and low input lag. IPS panels in general has the highest pixel response time, which makes them less than ideal for gaming.

IPS is quite fast, your propably thinking of PVA.
http://www.digitalversus.com/dell-2209wa-p358_4862_88.html

"An averge 2 ms TN is at 0.8 for coloured ghosting-this eIPS does better!" (0.65)
That Dell also could do ~77hz and had no inputlag .

A great TN is far better though on response time.
http://www.digitalversus.com/viewsonic-vx2268wm-p358_6823_41.html
Keep in mind that the frames on vx2268vm is 0.4 at 120hz which has 8.33ms per frame compared to 13ms per frame.

Yes

BenQ XL2410T

http://www.benq.com/press/news.cfm?id=4276&am...;year=2010

Looks like it has nothing over the LG W2363D. 0ms input lag thru-mode made my purchase at least a few milliseconds sweeter.

but the benq one is LED
(again, idk much about lcd screens. Should I call it LED LCD or just LED?)

LED-LCD. Based upon what I've seen in LED-LCD televisions you'll have to disable the LED backlight to get the fastest response in games anyway. The main benefit of LED backlights is better blacks, right? But the TN panels lack in overall color reproduction, so if you're that worried about image quality you probably shouldn't be buying this monitor in the first place

You pay a premium for a monitor that has better blacks but only when watching movies and the colors will still suck compared to the latest IPS panels. If they try and charge more than $400 for this monitor, it won't be worth it.

now that looks interesting... led + 120hz + 1080p = win.

connectivity values (D-sub; DVI-D-DL, HDMI)

d-sub is vga?

yes d-sub is vga.

.. News at 11

wow another 1920Ũ1080 @ 120hz

is it really that hard for the to make it 1920x1200?

yeah i dont get it either its only 120 extra pixelz

that's kinda compensated by the display modes key.

sounds promising, but I know it'll very very very expensive. On the other hand I really want to change my 19"crt beast

edit: Do pros still use 4:3 when playing on lcd screens at LANs? if so, how do to they configure it?
I'm a total noob regarding lcd advanced configurations so my wild guess would be gpu rescaling, but they play fullscreen without bars at the sides

real point is : use 1600*1200 ingame so that you can get native + borders in ql cause that bastard won't let you add black bars on a custom res, only on lower res.
Edit: and it depends on the player, most of them still play in 800*600 with black bars.

That's the thing about resolution. I'm so used to 800x600 that I really must use it all fps games, at least when playing multiplayer.

Dunno, I don't give a crap about the res as long as it's 4/3 and not utterly ugly ( hai 640 and lower ). I've been using 800 for months on the crt cause that's the only res I can get 120hz but I wouldn't spit on a 1600*1200 120hz screen.
I think most people still use 800 even though their crt can pump higher resolutions at 120hz cause that's a pretty safe bet. Most crts made since the late 90's can't at least pump out 800/120 or 1024/100.

Any pics of this thing as of yet? Can't find any.

also important. If I'm going to pay for an overpriced product it should better be good looking

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/med...10t-1l.jpg

ftp://files.benq-eu.com/spawn%20auf%20der%20gamescom%20.jpg

http://flatpanelshd.com/pictures/benqxl2410t-1.jpg

lol looks almost identical to mu current BenQ LCD

its not good looking, thats for sure....

349 Euros by the way ( http://www.alternate.de/html/product/Fernsehe...0T/574304/ )

it looks very well, just not on the those screenshots that have been posted

http://i-need-a-drink.de/wp-content/uploads/2...cf1894.jpg

Hm, that looks much better I agree.

I own the Samsung 2233rz already, but I might sell that one and get the BENQ for the higher resolution and height adjustment. If reviews are good.

: )

personally I would prefer this or the new LG monitor if it just had a lower resolution, like 1680x1050 (16:10). I have a CRT capable of 120 Hz, but due to really low available space, I was forced to buy a cheap LCD, but with very nice reviews. So I chose the BenQ G2220HD and I am quite satisfied, though it isn't that good for gaming. I don't like 75 Hz, input lag, all the ghosting nor 16:9. Also, I don't like how 720p fragmovies look on this monitor, due to resizing them into 1080p when playing them back, they really don't look great. But it is perfect for working in documents, browsing the web and stuff like that.

it's just gonna cost too much for me :\

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64L08FXDjvU

It shows how heaton and spawn contributed to some specific issues concerning cs. It might not be good at all for everyday use and quake.

I loved the button to put 19" 4:3 ratio, but as I said idk much about lcd screens so that feature could be in all these "gaming" screens.

On august 4th we announced that we had been working together with BenQ for the past year to develop a monitor which was optimized for competitive gaming. ZOWIE GEAR's legendary professional gamers, Emil 'HeatoN' Christensen and Abdisamad 'SpawN' Mohamed provided feedback and ideas for optimization of the monitor in the beginning of this cooperation. During the development of the monitor, SpawN and HeatoN have visited BenQ's facilities on several occasions to follow up on progress in the development, to optimize certain features and to test specific functionalities of this monitor.

Today, on Sunday, September 26th 2010, we are ready to announce the outcome of our cooperation.

We proudly present to you the BenQ XL2410T competitive gaming monitor!

The BenQ XL2410T is a 23,6" Widescreen LED monitor with a 1080p Full HD panel, so it can be used for PC-gaming, console-gaming as well as watching movies on.

As you expected, the XL2410T has a fast refresh rate of 120 Hz. We are aware that some gamers has experienced problems with other monitors not being able to perform with the full 120 Hz in 640x480 and 800x600 resolutions. The XL2410T can perform with 120 Hz in 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768 and (1920x1080, DVI –only)! To ensure that enemies are clearly displayed without motion blur the monitor also has a quick response time of 2ms GTG (OverDrive) and a Dynamic Contrast Ratio of 10,000,000:1 which provides detailed images and clarity in both darkened and brightened situations.

That's very good you think. But still you want to know; what did we do to optimize to be able to call this monitor a "competitive gaming monitor"

Well, first of all we made sure that the monitor had a simple, yet sleek design, using natural black colors without reflecting lighting or the activities going on behind you.

Then we had a think about what we could do to adjust and optimize the coloring of the monitor for specific ingame situations where you can have a hard time seeing your opponents. SpawN and HeatoN wanted to optimize the coloring of the monitor completely to be better suitable for FPS-games and to provide a more comfortable and consistent experience, while creating a better balance between the performance and visual appearance. Instead we created a predefined setting called the "FPS mode" and two "User Modes" which allows the gamer to create dedicated and personalized settings - for other games or activities.

An example of one of the situations we wanted to change is rushing into a darker area of a map (i.e. "dark on dust2) and trying to spot an enemy, but the coloring of your monitor is too damn dark and you can't see the guy hiding in the corner; boom, you're dead. To prevent this, most gamers play with brightness and gamma levels of "3" but this is not really comfortable for the eyes and the game looks unnatural. The coloring of the "FPS mode" is optimized to provide the perfect balance between performance and visual appearance.

SpawN and HeatoN explained about their annoying experiences with having to play on many different monitors when competing at different events. If the monitor at a given event is only 19" and they have a 22" inch monitor at home, they would need to acquire and borrow a 19" monitor to get the best practice for the event. To prevent this for other gamers in the future, we have implemented a Display Mode function, which allows the gamer to swap between a variety of modes, Full; Aspect; Overscan; 1:1, 17", 19", 19" Widescreen and 22" Widescreen. With this function the gamer doesn't have to borrow or buy a new monitor to practice with the best conditions for their next event. Simply change the display mode and it's like playing on whatever!

This feature also makes the XL2410T the perfect monitor for gaming centres and competitive events where many different gamers are playing on the same machines. The gamers will be able to change the Display Mode to be like the monitor they are used to playing on

Next to the "Display Mode" button you will find the "Smart Scaling" button, which is a cool new feature implemented to adjust the picture size in original input to the limit of the screen. Used together with the Display Mode, users are able to define the resolution size of the monitor to be the exact picture size they wish to have

The stand of the monitor allows for height adjustment, so the user will easily be able to adjust the height of the monitor to be as comfortable for him (or her) as possible.

Last, but not least, the monitor has Picture By Picture which is a feature enabling the user to display two programs side-by-side on the screen. During tactical meetings, you can have your game running on one side and watch your girlfriend on cam in a different window. Or if you're the camper-type, you can be camping in a game while watching a movie. Wuhu

The monitor is 3D ready, authorized and certified by NVIDIA and has D-sub, DVI-D-DL and HDMI connectivity values. We understand that gamers use their PC's for more than just to game on, so it was important to have features for some extreme entertainment.

Find pictures at our Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=217550&id=130944813962

ENJOY!

Funny they don't say anything about 0 inputlag...
Looks very good though. I like a monitor without a glossy look.

dammit, I forgot to post it here ;)

beat ya to it :P

not bad, but I would prefer if it would be 16:10 : (

why? most movies are in 16:9, why the need to move to something different?

yeah movies, but for a gaming monitor I prefer 16:10 as it comes nearer to 4:3

I have a 1080p 16:9 (movie and browsing) screen already, which is, well, not the ideal for gaming, which is inter alia the proportions fault

e: oh and another point is that I'm using 1024x768 on my 22" LCD (native resolution: 1920x1080), wouldn't the same resolution be significantly sharper on a monitor with a lower native resolution? (i.e. 1680x1050)

You should be able to quickly switch to 4:3 with the BenQ if what they advertise turns out to be true.

I don't want nor do I like black borders style

Fair enough. But didn't we already discuss that most games give you more vision in 16:9 than in 16:10? Because you don't get true 16:10 just some upscaled 16:9 resolution. SC2 works that way for instance. In QL however the game should give you true 16:10 I think (correct me if I'm wrong).

Let's come back to another point "(I'm using 1024x768 on my 22" LCD (native resolution: 1920x1080), wouldn't the same resolution be significantly sharper on a monitor with a lower native resolution? (i.e. 1680x1050)". What do you think about my hypothesis?

resizing/rescaling heavily depends on the individual panel/tft

check out prad.de, they do screen-by-screen rescaling quality tests

didn't know that : o )

but still, there's no way a 720p movies looks better on a native 1080p screen than it does on a native 1680x1050 screen

playing a 720p movie file on a 1080p display

well, here's the video player software or gpu doing the job, not the tft

but same thing is true: some tfts are better at playing back video (darker blacks, high static contrast, good color representation, little to no tearing, etc..., being able to use a multiple of the original videofile's fps, etc..)

with a high quality video renderer and viewing it at the same relative distance, it shouldn't make much difference.

(http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228 - never used the thing myself tho :D)

Hold on, those are two cases, I originally meant to relate to a game, so please relate to that instead.

And on a second thought, would it make change to change the resolution to 720p for watching 720p movies? : D

oh and that mad thing is really nice, is there something like software scaling from nvidia for games instead of the monitor algorithms? I shot a photo and the quality of the default software video renderer was better than when I set the monitor in control panel to 720p : /

Last, but not least, the monitor has Picture By Picture which is a feature enabling the user to display two programs side-by-side on the screen. During tactical meetings, you can have your game running on one side and watch your girlfriend on cam in a different window. Or if you're the camper-type, you can be camping in a game while watching a movie. Wuhu

!

Oh yeah lets produce moar ADD monkeys...

This is so funny, its like laser mouse tech, sound cool but it sucks. My refurbished LG F900P gives me the refresh, input lag and constrast that no LCD can to this day, and i payed u$s100 for it. Bye.

There is at least one LCD without input lag on the market today.
LG2363D. CRTs are great for gaming and all, but tbh gaming is all they are good for. 120hz LCD are getting there and I would prefer the LG - and hopefully the BenQ - over any old CRT.

confirmed for the lg that it has no input?

Getting there isnt enough for me. LCD still arent mach to good ole CRTs, period. We should push those lazy asses that want to rip off as much as possible, remember the price fixing discovered between LCD makers some years ago? Tecnology fixing is much harder to prove, butyou get the point. Gaming is full of little details, i love it.

lcd:
++space usage, especially when using multiple monitors, or you can just have a big 16:9 screen which you can't with crts
++looks much better (it's kind of a poor people thing to keep using crts).
+image quality
+way easier to carry it to lans than crts, by far.

++looks much better (it's kind of a poor people thing to keep using crts).
+image quality

???????????????????

AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHHA

CLUELESS

(I won't login from here, full of trojans lol)

The first one is about aesthetics (external).
You know it doesn't look well to remain using one of those beasts for anything, plus objectively LCDs are way more pleasant to the eye.
I even shouldn't be explaining myself about those 2 things; it's rather obvious. Maybe a language barrier thing?

and for the second point: I haven't seen a pro crt in years but I can't recall a crt that's looks better than a new good lcd screen.

yes, you have seen a 60 Hz 'pro' CRT

the only thing I can agree on is that most people don't have a clue about monitors and think you are poor if they see you playing with a CRT

you don't have a clue about the display quality of CRT screens as you dared to compare a TNT panel with a CRT

prad.de testet the LG vs. a CRT from Eizo using an new method: synced both monitors with a signal of black and white and then measured the time in between frames. Result: the LG follows the CRT frame by frame ie there is no inputlag.

You can find the test here: http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2010/tes...l#Inputlag (german only). Basically if they cannot measure a difference between the LG and the CRT you as a human sure can't either. Its all in your imagination. The LG at least "is there" already.

are there any other good reviews about 120hz screens?

and inputlag is not the only factor. Image quality, colors, etc matter as well.

awesome link (even before clicking it)
ty

What really bothers my about the 23" 16:9 1080p monitors is the small pixel size. My eyes get tired very quickly when reading on monitors like this.
I hope they will make bigger panels with full HD and 120Hz.

Just increase font size (e.g. web browsers have zoom in option) and it will do (actually looks much better than you normally see).
My notebook has a 15' 1080p screen, and I never find it hard to read.

http://gadgets.softpedia.com/news/Eyes-On-Wit...86-01.html

More pics.