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New HW thread
Forums > Hardware Forum
HeatoN Mouse (595 comments)
( Forum: HW)
Posted by GreenMeanie @ 03:18 CDT, 15 July 2010 - iMsg
http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?option=com...p;Itemid=2

The new HeatoN mouse.
Edited by GreenMeanie at 03:23 CDT, 15 July 2010 - 190999 Hits
2%

<< prev HW thread || next HW thread >>


<< Comment #1 @ 03:39 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr 
Looks pretty nice (ignoring the BS marketing).

Many people will cry about the angle snapping (aka prediction/correction).
<< Comment #4 @ 04:16 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By QW tbone  - Reply to #1
Where does it say this?
<< Comment #16 @ 07:01 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #4
Nowhere but they use the Avago ADNS-3080 sensor (Mx518) which has angle snapping and if they would have got a special version without angle snapping from Avgo Zowie would certainly advertise it.
<< Comment #21 @ 07:29 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By QW tbone  - Reply to #16
Hmmm ha!

Disappoint. Add it to the fire.
<< Comment #57 @ 13:59 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #16
the angle snapping sounds like a "feature" from logitech in the driver or firmware and not like a sensor problem.
<< Comment #58 @ 14:07 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #57
It's not a problem, it's a "feature", (helping drawing straight lines) which many don't like, of the sensor.

With Logitechs version of the A9500 sensor in the G9x and G500 you can adjust that feature.
Edited by Bullveyr at 14:08 CDT, 15 July 2010
<< Comment #59 @ 14:16 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #58
do you know roughly how angle snapping works? is it added after the optical flow algorithm determines the movement delta or is it done with the algorithm?
<< Comment #68 @ 01:44 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #59
I would say it's done after the algorithm but I don't know for sure.
I mean you have to know delta x/y to decide if you have to "snap the angle" or not.
<< Comment #96 @ 12:44 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #68
I could imagine it in the code aswell, like in pseudo code

if delta x > 4
and if delta y < 2
then set delta y = 0

which brings me to another question. The flow algorithm, is it basically the same for every optical mouse or is it adjusted for the needs of a specific mouse, like with a gaming mouse it is adjusted to achieve high-speed tracking?
<< Comment #107 @ 07:31 CDT, 17 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #96
Possibly.

I don't know much about the algoritm but I would guess there isn't much difference between a low cost office sensor from Avago and their flagships, which have for example higher fps and much more processing power.
<< Comment #60 @ 14:49 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #58
it is only a sensor... without features! the companies add the "features" like angle bullshitting and accel....
<< Comment #69 @ 01:48 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #60
ofc sensors can have features like angle snapping or adjustable lift-off distance, back in the days most companies didn't even know that the sensors they bought had angle snapping
<< Comment #75 @ 05:52 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #69
if there is no information in the datasheet from the 3080 about angle snapping. so i am sure it is a feature from logitech.

but how do u know that the 3080 is in the Zowie EC1, who give u this information?
<< Comment #84 @ 08:48 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #75
1. Dunno why Avago never put the angle snapping in their data sheets (but they don't talk about their tracking algoritm either) but it's a known fact that it's in the sensor and not an added feature from Logitech, Razer or MS.
And as I said, Logitech wasn't really aware of that.

2. Nobody told me but I know the specs of different sensors and 40ips/6500fp/15g is the A3080.
<< Comment #87 @ 10:01 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #84
based on the datasheet the sensor has 400 and 1600 cpi. so for me it looks like the datasheed show all nativ features from the sensor. a modification from zowie or logitch result in 500/1000/2000 cpi or angle snapping.

for there are two ways to manage this. the company do this mod at its own or they ask avago to do this.

the tracking algorism it self doesnt matter for this. we dont realy know how many dpi the sensor has. what we know it has 30*30 pixel no matter what the give out at the end (400/500/800/1000/1600/2000cpi). so there is only a mulitplicator like sensitivity->value.

they can do it with the driver... but in_mouse 2 would pass this. they can do it with an extra chip behind the tracking algorism. or the mod the algorism. but again. logitech or zowie would know about angle snapping or cpi changes.
<< Comment #117 @ 04:09 CDT, 19 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #87
CPI doesn't really matter to find out which sensor a mouse uses because it's the only spec the mouse manufacturer has influence on (besides simply lying).
Either with simple interpolation, which is basically lying, or by using a 3rd party lens which Zowie is doing.
A negative effect of using a 3rd party lens to get higher CPI (allthought that's not the reason why Zowie isn't using the usuall lens) is a lower max. tracking speed.
Good examples are the NZXT Avatar and the Razer Viper.
So there is a good chance that the EC-Series has a little bit lower max. tracking speed than usually expected from the A3080.

There are dozens of mice with the A3080 and every single one has angle snapping, that should tell you something. ;)

Theoretically as a manufacturer you could ask Avago for an A3080 without angle snapping, just as Razer did, but most likely they wouldn't do it for such a small company like Zowie, and ofc it would cost something.
As I said before, if Zowie would have gotten a A3080 without angle snapping they would advertise it.

The mouse manufacturer can't mod a sensor which has angle snapping because they don't have access to the algorithm/srom and even if they would manage to get access somehow Avago wouldn't sell you sensors anymore because they simply don't allow it.

Allthough the sensor array (30*30 pixels in case of thze A3080) is a factor for how much CPI a sensor "has" there are also the lens and afaik the FPS as factors.
There is no simple "mulitplicator like sensitivity->value".

There are only 2 mice with a sensor without angle snapping which give the user the option to add some angle snapping, the Ikari Laser and the Xai.
(I don't count the G500/G9x because in those cases it's afaik an exclusive sensor feature).
They don't use an extra chip to calculate the added angle snapping, they use the existing MCU in the mouse (you need a MCU in the mouse), just one with enough processing power and memory.
<< Comment #118 @ 05:33 CDT, 19 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #117
if u have the ccd and the lens it will be result in one nativ cpi setup.
we dont know what it is. it can be that the standard A3080 with the sandard lens (1:1) has 400 dpi, but we dont know it. it can be 100 (1:10 lens) or 1000 (1:100 lens) nobody know it and there is no way to test it. but one thing is a fakt. there cant be 3 nativ dpi settings. so there must be a multiplikator like sensitivity-> value!

so if zowie use a other lens lets say 1.25:1 it will result in 500 nativ dpi. and the 1000 and 2000 dpi setting is only a interpolation with a multiplicator. and yes if both run on the same FPS, the sensor with 500dpi has a lower max tracking speed. thats the reason why roboterfreaks use mousesensors for his roboter and they can track speed up to 200km/h with an other lens.

but that has nothing to do with the angle snapping.fakt is its only a feature that u can turn on and of. not the lens, not the ccd, not the MCU prodruce it nativly. its part of "code" and u can put it in or leave it out.

its the same like adding accel. :klick:

Conclusion
This suggested switching method is intended to help mouse manufacturers and designers to overcome the over-sensitivity of the mouse cursor while under the maximum resolution setting. However, there may be more alternatives in terms of the speed threshold selection and number of switching stages which designers can adjust to optimize user experience accordingly. It is also recommended to implement a microcontroller function to enable or disable this algorithm set easily.

this means to me: the mouse manufacturers and designers can add feature like accel and angle snapping. its not forced by avago.
<< Comment #119 @ 07:46 CDT, 19 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #118
I admit I don't really know what the sensor does if you set it to a differnet cpi value but that doesn't really matter because the whole cpi part was just to show that the cpi aren't really important for "guessing" the sensor as long as you know the other, more important specs.

Ofc you can do everything you want with the delta x/y the sensor sends to the MCU (interpolation, acceleration, angle snapping, ..) but that doesn't help you when the sensor has angle snapping hard coded into its core.
It's a known fact that the A3080 has angle snapping and that you can't just switch it on/off, Avago doesn't give you the option.

Feel free to believe that every manufacturer with a A3080 mouse choosed a version with angle snapping on or does it themself via driver/MCU, it's still wrong but ok.

It's useless to discuss if a fact is correct or not, even if I wouldn't have a "source in the business" (former SteelSeries R&D Manager) the fact that every single mouse with the A3080 sensor out there has angle snapping would be enough for me.
<< Comment #120 @ 08:24 CDT, 19 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #119
a sensor has to report distance not more or less. if i go in a shop and want to buy coca cola... if the shop only have pepsi its up to me to buy it or just go to a other shop. so it is in avagos interesst to deliver exaxtly that sensor that i request and if they cant i go to STMicroelectronics or phillips.

but in the end we dont know what kind of sensor and code works in the EC 1 so we have to wait. but i think it is wrog to say the sensor has angle snapping curz we dont know the exact code and the settings.
<< Comment #121 @ 08:49 CDT, 19 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #120
I'm not saying that I find Avagos behavior good but it's there decision to say no to a small manufacturer like Zowie (they wouldn't say no to Logitech), it's not like their engineers don't have other things to do.

To say it with your analogy:
If you go to a shop, which sells 1.000.000 bottles of Pepsi per month, and you want to buy 10 bottles of Coca Cola allthough they don't sell Coca Cola, the most likely will not stock Coca Cola just for you, especially if the think that Coca Cola can't compete with Pepsi.

Who knows, maybe they said yes and Zowie just didn't want to pay the extra money.

Wanna bet that it's the A3080 and has angle snapping? ^^
<< Comment #122 @ 09:05 CDT, 19 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #121
i understand ur example and its ok if disable angle snapping would need new code - like and fix for a bug. but angle snapping is a feature addet to the code. so u have costs like zero for deleting the rows from the "code". so u only need to flash the MCU with the new firmware and u have a sensor without this "feature". and this is what avago can do or they give the new firmware to zowie and they flash it for her own.

in the end for me there is no reason for angle snapping in the EC 1.
<< Comment #123 @ 09:13 CDT, 19 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #122
Dunno if it would be that simple.

It's also possible that Avago says: "If you want a sensor without angle snapping you have to buy our flag ship laser sensor, which ofc costs more"

Avago clearly concentrates on laser sensors (more potential), the pretty old A3080 is still there flagship optical sensor, they haven't released a gaming grade optical sensor after the A3080.
<< Comment #124 @ 10:19 CDT, 19 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #123
we (gamer) dont need a lasersensors that perform well on shit - we need a sensor that perform well on a mousepad ;)

LED works well on mousepads so there is no reason for laser.

on paper a 16*16 LED sensor with 41000fps can track up to 10m/s. dont ask me why they dont produce a sensor with this settings.
<< Comment #125 @ 12:46 CDT, 19 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #124
Dunno, costs are maybe a factor and it's certainly not that simple, just look at the sensors from PixArt, ST or Cypress (the Philips twin-eye works totally different, so I don't count it), they can't really compete with Avago at the high-end range.

And ofc Avago wants to release new and better sensor in the future, which they can sell at a higher price.
The A9500 currently uses about 25% of its processing power, so the next thing we will see from them are better sensors which still basically share the same hardware.
But they are also working on a sensor with a 64*64 pixel sensor array.

PS: What exactly do you mean with "on paper"?
Edited by Bullveyr at 12:48 CDT, 19 July 2010
<< Comment #126 @ 13:13 CDT, 19 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #125
first: i dont know why avago sensors work better than others. hardware is basicly the same so its the "software" that make the difference. i think there algorism works just better than others.

working on a 64*64 array makes no sense at all. its like playing quake in 600*800 or HD on both u can hit the same LG ;) so its doesnt improve moventtracking overall. changing lens result in same effect like changing FOV. at the end it is possible that the sensor makes pictures from the atoms in a mousepad. does it help tracking movement? NO.

its realy simple to understand how the sensor works. u see in picture B on the left side a big withe dot over 3*3 pixel. in picture A the dot is more in the middle. u dont need more overall pixel to detect this dot and his movement. and if the sensor makes more frames per sec the dot makes a smaler "jump" like only one pixel to right. so its like i sayed. FPS is what we need. not more pixel or a lens to see atoms.

and btw.. the sensor of the wmo is from ST 22*22px ;)
Edited by r4pe at 13:18 CDT, 19 July 2010
<< Comment #127 @ 04:01 CDT, 20 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #126
No worries, I know very well how an image correlation mouse sensor works, that ST made the WMO/IME/IMO sensor and that it has a 22*22 pixel sensor array (their current sensors still have and they suck :D) but its max. tracking speed is far from impressive.

In the real world it's not as simple as the theory of operation may sound.

It's just like a car engine, the theory of operation is pretty simple but making a good engine that can compete on the market is much more complex, "we just need a bigger engine displacement" doesn't simply do the job.

Taking as many pictures as possible is a good thing and the FPS will increase (the next A9500 based sensor will have higher FPS, just as Logitechs version allready has) but the quality of those pictures is also a very important factor.

If you have read the data sheets you may know what SQUAL (signal quality) is, it's the number of the valid features in the current frame, the higher the better ofc.
What you want are high contrast pictures with as many valid information as possible.
To achieve that, especially at high movement speeds, you need a good IAS, proper ilumination, a high quality lens and ofc bigger pictures (sensor array) also help.
Then you need a DSP with enough processing power and a good algorithm/code.
All those things you have to make for a competitive price.

The A9500 is pretty much the most expensive sensor used in mice, optical sensors or the twin-eye are cheaper, and costs about 4$.
It wouldn't help you if you made a way better sensor which would cost, lets say, 20$ because pretty much nobody would buy it.

The guys from Avago know much more about that stuff than we both do, so when they are working on a 64*64 pixel array sensor they most likely have a good reason for that. ;)

Oh and look at those 2 pictures closly, "the big white dot over 3*3 pixel" isn't exactly the same in both pictures which makes it harder for the sensor to determine the movement, a "better" picture would help.;)
<< Comment #128 @ 05:17 CDT, 20 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #127
i like to hold things simple.

a display has arround 100dpi. so i dont need a mouse with 3000.

400dpi is 0.0635mm and 800 is 0.03175. i think as an human i have a limit and i cant perfrom movementsteps under his. so there is realy no need to smaler the px in the sensor. creating a 64*64 is ok and can increase the max speed limit. but at the end the "3*3 dot" can "jump" a higher distance. thats only a way to save fps.

the realy intresting thing that i read out from the datasheets is that they chance wavelenght and volt for the laser or LED at higher fps.

lets make a switch to photographie. there u have timings how long the lens is open.. i the night u have it longer open than on daylight.
higher fps means - less protons can reachs the pixelcell and that can fuck up the picture.

so it can be that we already hit the physical limit for FPS. than is the only way to reach higher max speed and much bigger array. like 128*128 but i think than the algorism run in trouble. curz u have so many dots on the picture that it is hard to say "this dot here on the left side is the from the picture befor on the right side" i hope u can understand what i try to say ;)

but... dont forget about the mousescore and the performance from the mx300/500 chips. they have at 1000hz all what a gamer need. and that is what i cant understand. why do they produce new stuff that cant hit the performance from the older sensor? i think it must be realy easy to rebuild exactly same sensor and let it run on default 1000hz. what is if zowie allready did this and only change multiplicator for cpi?
Edited by r4pe at 05:18 CDT, 20 July 2010
<< Comment #130 @ 07:44 CDT, 20 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #128
Allthough I'm on the side that many people actually would need way less CPI than they think you shouldn't underestimate your hand.
It's not a problem for me to click on a certain pixel on my screen if I set my mouse to, lets say, 2000 CPI but that must not mean that much for every day FPS-Gaming. ;)

I doubt that we have reached the FPS limit, I mean we are talking about low resolution greyscale pictures, and as I said, the DSP of the A9500 has enough processing power for more than 40K FPS, imho it wouldn't make sense if you couldn't reach that high FPS.

Ofc a bigger array means more rendering per frame but at the end it comes down to the max. megapixels/s.

The MX300/500 sensor was exclusive for Logitech and it's out of production.
Yes, we have very good sensors (from a low sense POV) for many years but a newly released gaming mouse with only 400 CPI just wouldn't sell very well.

And allthough the performance of that sensor is/was good enough for pretty much everyone, the A9500 still has a higher max. tracking speed, not that you really need >5m/s.
I like my Xai, it feels very accurate for me, I don't have any problems on various cloth pads and I can easily manage the little pos. accel.

If a Sensor Manufacturer claims a sensor has a certain amount of CPI, the sensor really has it, it's not just interpolated lower CPI.

Zowei wouldn't be the first company which simply interpolates the CPI (high CPI sell better) but it would be plain stupid because it's easy to notice and they would loose a lot of credibility.
In other words, it would be hard for them to ever see me as a customer again. ;)

Don't get me wrong, we're on the same side, I would also prefer the companys more caring about performance and flawless operation than about CPI.
<< Comment #131 @ 08:50 CDT, 20 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By t2 tourist  - Reply to #130
so after writing all that, what did you guys conclude?
<< Comment #132 @ 08:53 CDT, 20 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #131
Who said we're finished? :D
<< Comment #133 @ 08:58 CDT, 20 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By t2 tourist  - Reply to #132
keep me informed
<< Comment #134 @ 10:17 CDT, 20 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #130
i think we have reached the fps limit. i read an artikle and they said increase or lowering the FPS doesent improve the the sensor much. but on the paper it is the only way to improve the performence on the specific array size. so what the reason for it?

i think the picure quallity decrease on higher fps based on the therory that not enought protons reach the photodiode (pixel) in this shot timeframe. but u need a good pixel quality to see the optical flow.

dont forget its not like a photo. that u compare each image with the next. the algorism compare pixel per pixel.

and if there is no limit for the FPS than is "no need" for increasing the array size.

u can read this. its realy nice. they try to figure out what is better higher fps or dpi...
<< Comment #138 @ 02:45 CDT, 21 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #134
As I said before it's not that simple.
It just doesn't work the "with so much FPS with that array size we can expect this performance"-way.

For all those theories (FPS is more important, no it's array size, both wrong, megapixels/s is all that matters) I can give you an example that "proves" otherwise.

I mean, you have read various data sheets, which should show you that optical sensors are a complicated little piece of hardware. ;)

And don't forget that as a manufacturer you have to ask yourself when designing a new sensor, what is more usefull for an acceptable price (cost-benefit analysis).

I will ask my contact what Avago says about the FPS limit, allthough it's more likely a "how much light we can provide" limit.
<< Comment #139 @ 03:45 CDT, 21 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #138
in theorie it is just simple like that and the limit is also just simple.

why sending money in bigger arrays and laser technology if u can just raise the FPS?
<< Comment #140 @ 04:15 CDT, 21 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #139
You are guessing that they hit a limit but you have not enough information or knowledge to say where this limit exactly is, neither do I (atm).

Who says more FPS is cheaper than a bigger sensor array?
Who says a bigger sensor array doesn't have other benefits?
Who says they are not doing both.

;)

There were reasons for developing laser sensors and the technology has its benfits (please don't start an optical/laser disscussion :D).

PS: btw MS BlueTrack has up to 13.000 FPS and afaik a 24x24 pixel array.
<< Comment #141 @ 04:57 CDT, 21 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #140
the problem with the high FPS is that u get noise in the image. more FPS = more noise

blue light has an other wavelenght so the image has less noise. laser is the best way to hide the noise problem i think. dont forget eyesafty...

but in the end the algorism need good images and if they are to "noisy" the algorism start to fail ;)

next thing to avoid the noise issue is a other surface. but this means the mouse will run only on specific mousepads.

newer mouses only runs better curz they use 30*30 at ~ same framerates like the older one with less pixel.

new "features" like dynamic FPSrates on specific speeds are workarounds to make sure the mouse will work on many surfaces as possible, but they dont help to increase the maximal performens.
<< Comment #142 @ 05:29 CDT, 21 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #141
Again, you assume that noise is allready a big problem and as I said before there are many factors which influence the image quality.

Dunno if blue light results in lower noise.

Eyesafty is ofc an important factor.
The laser also shouldn't melt your mousepad. :D

Dynamic FPS isn't something knew and you don't know if the mouse manufacturers actually use it.

Actually we don't need more performance (in the sense of higher max. ips), BlueTrack, A9500, A3080, S3668, S3888 and twin-eye are pretty much impossible to get them skip.
We need flawless sensors, which work well on as many surfaces as possible, are precise with low LOD and have enough CPI that the masses will buy them.

I have the feeling that you want to simplify a complex subject just because that way it sounds easier. ;)
<< Comment #144 @ 06:20 CDT, 21 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #142
i never seen my wmo skipping so thats not the point. i talk about perfekt control up to 4m/sec. thats all what we need. NO positiv or negativ accel and anglesnapping.

shape is a different story and the job from the mousedesigner.
<< Comment #94 @ 11:30 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Norway Erk  - Reply to #16
Isn't the angle-snapping in the firmware for the mouse? Razer was able to remove virtually all the angle-snapping on the DA through firmware updates, so would expect that it is possible to get a version from avago without the angle-snapping.

Fixed 1000hz is a deal killer for me though, as 1000hz has never been stable on any of my computers and occasionally gives missed button input in Q3 and similar. Would also need drivers that would allow for sensitivity adjustments in games that don't give a proper sensitivity settings options (hello Mass effect 2, Singularity, F.E.A.R., F.E.A.R. 2, Borderlands etc.)
Edited by Erk at 11:30 CDT, 16 July 2010
<< Comment #108 @ 07:34 CDT, 17 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #94
Yep it's in the firmware/srom for the sensor and you can get one without angle snapping (kust like Razer) but most likely not a small company like Zowie, for Logitech I guess it wouldn't be a problem.
<< Comment #110 @ 02:05 CDT, 18 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #108
Asked them if the ec series had prediction but didn't get a reply... Would be a total joke if heaton himself couldn't tell the difference
<< Comment #137 @ 16:37 CDT, 20 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #110
Again, if they had no correction they would advertise it (unless the name was steelseries).

Anyone can see correction while painting lines in ms paint, but to feel the difference in-game is a lot harder. Heaton would of course I will commit myself to that, he is one of the best and played with low sens no accel, he would feel the difference for sure.
<< Comment #146 @ 15:23 CDT, 21 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #137
Duno, not all companies are marketing whores, well i have a source that will be getting a sample this week maybe the next i'll ask him to test and post the result here? If zowie screwed this up i'll be so dissapointed, want to replace my worn out 3.0 very badly
<< Comment #148 @ 19:43 CDT, 21 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By australia-nsw end0rphine  - Reply to #146
Please do! :D
<< Comment #149 @ 04:02 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #148
Got the answer, it has prediction, what a turnoff =/
<< Comment #150 @ 04:04 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
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By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #149
no surprise
<< Comment #151 @ 04:14 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #150
Geee, i kinda lost interest with the mouse, why cant they use the Da sensor with a red led instead? Time for a petition? Lmao
<< Comment #152 @ 04:23 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #151
DA sensor is exclusive for Razer.
Either Avago did not give them the A3080 without angle snapping, Zowie didn't want to pay the extra price or they didn't even care and didn't ask.

For me angle snapping isn't a that big deal, so I most likely will give the EC2 a chance.
<< Comment #153 @ 05:28 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #152
I was interested with the ec2, but I'm very accustom with the 3.0 so i dont think i can live with prediction, duno if the mice has onboard memory maybe a firmware fix will be possible? Unlikely this will happen thou I'm hoping.

Ps. Bull what do you call the chip(memory) that they use to store firmwares in?
<< Comment #154 @ 05:36 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #153
Do you mean the srom for the sensor or the MCU?

I doubt that the MCU has enough memory for a firmware update because for such a "simple" mouse there is just no need for that.
Edited by Bullveyr at 05:37 CDT, 22 July 2010
<< Comment #159 @ 10:26 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #154
So for example the DA hava a srom while somthing like the 518 doesnt, i think i get it now. I doubt that zowie's ec series have a srom
<< Comment #162 @ 13:35 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #159
Nono, the every sensor has a srom (you could call it the "software" of the sensor, actually it's an ASCII text file) but you don't have direct access to the sensor, only threw the MCU.
So simplified you first have to load this "software" on the MCU and then from the MCU to the sensor but that doesn't really work if you haven't got enough memory on the MCU for the "software".

Quote from the ADNS-3080 data sheet

"A micro-controller (MCU) with sufficent memory may be used"

But they are very small, only 2K bytes on the A3080 and 3K bytes on the A9500.
<< Comment #219 @ 13:32 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #146
So no definitive confirmation yet but it seems your guess was right it in fact doesn't have angle snapping! =)
<< Comment #157 @ 06:12 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By India Cyn1c  - Reply to #1
I stopped looking as soon as I saw the glossy sides. When will people realize that nothing beats the Kinzu in terms of texture. They need to kill the gloss coz it makes the thumb slip on the sides.
<< Comment #167 @ 15:11 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By t2 tourist  - Reply to #157
no
<< Comment #172 @ 04:48 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By PerpetualWar PerpetualWar  - Reply to #167
yes
<< Comment #2 @ 03:51 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
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By United Kingdom ZeritoN 
Just a deathadder aint it?

edit: seems like they've got the right idea though:

Most gamers prefer cloth mouse pads today, when using a mouse on a cloth surface, the movements will destroy the structure of the fibers bit by bit and static electricity caused by the friction between mouse feet and cloth will cause particles to stick to the lens very easily. This happens for both optical and laser lens, but the laser lens is more sensitive, resulting in a very unstable tracking when particles are gathered at the lens. The optical lens is not as annoyed by the absorption of particles and will continue to function flawlessly, as it pretty much ignores the particles.

Comparing the disadvantages of laser and optical, it is quite clear that the optical technology is still the best solution for gaming at any level
Edited by Zer1toN at 03:53 CDT, 15 July 2010
<< Comment #3 @ 04:10 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #2
Ya i thought it was just another DA when i saw the pictures.
But it looks like they have done everything right.

1000hz plug in and play
Optical sensor
1.5mm LOD
DPI switch out of the way
Different sizes + different coatings.
side buttons
good shape

my only problem i could point out would be that odd DPI settings
500/1,000/2,000 DPI adjustment .
I think reviews will knock it thought because it doesn't have a laser sensor,lights and isn't 5600dpi.
Edited by GreenMeanie at 04:15 CDT, 15 July 2010
<< Comment #5 @ 04:17 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By QW tbone  - Reply to #3
Why would you care if it's 500 or 1000 dpi instead of 400 or 800? Most people still think they have 450dpi on their ms mice.
<< Comment #6 @ 04:22 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United Kingdom ZeritoN  - Reply to #3
To be honest, I really liked my old DA3.G. Was very trusty and I've always considered going back to it since the sensor was so flawless, but since I've got back used to the old WMO/Xai profile, every time I try out the DA again I can't work with it.

I reckon it'll be pretty popular if they set it at decent price, advertise it and make sure they don't bugger up a lot of things like other companies have.

edit: looking back at it, wouldn't surprise me at all if the EC1 is shaped like a deathadder and EC2 like a 3.0
Edited by Zer1toN at 04:23 CDT, 15 July 2010
<< Comment #7 @ 04:53 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #6
if they sell it for £35 i reckon it will be big seller if the sensor doesn't have + or - accel and doesn't skip.
Edited by GreenMeanie at 04:56 CDT, 15 July 2010
<< Comment #8 @ 04:58 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
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By Ukraine Mitritch 
MS 3.0 still > *
<< Comment #56 @ 13:51 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By ezQuake f0cus  - Reply to #8
correct
<< Comment #9 @ 05:11 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
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By Belgium Trance 
this looks promising. It all sounds good so far, can't wait for some reviews.
<< Comment #10 @ 05:43 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
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By Lithuania GUArd 
i hope size will be same big as ie3, if yes , im sure ill take it after 10 years using wmo / ie3 / mx518.

ps. where is nothing about WEIGHT, it's so imporant.

ps. this product will impact lot about ZOWIE, if this mouse will be ok, they will have big [+] from gamers. becoz make clothe pad @ qck clone , is easy.
Edited by GUArd at 06:01 CDT, 15 July 2010
2%
<< Comment #12 @ 06:23 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Sweden Anonymous (83.251.103.88)  - Reply to #10
Dimensions (Length/Height/Width) given from the manufacture:

EC1: 128 x 43 x 62~70 mm / 5 x 1.7 x 2.44~2.76 inch
EC2: 120 x 40 x 58~65 mm / 4.72 x 1.57 x 2.28~2.56 inch

WMO: 124 x 39.6 x 66.6
3.0: 132 x 43 x 69
DA: 128 x 42.5 x 70
8%
<< Comment #13 @ 06:39 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Lithuania GUArd  - Reply to #12
ty :)
intresting about weight :/
<< Comment #155 @ 05:48 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #10
Alot of people don't actually know that the person wo designed the qck is @ zowie now, actually most people from zowie are previous SS employees
<< Comment #158 @ 06:19 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #155
qck?
<< Comment #160 @ 11:16 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United Kingdom ZeritoN  - Reply to #155
What's to design on the qck?!

Bit of rubber... bit of cloth


SORTED
<< Comment #182 @ 09:45 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By hemostick's grenade j0sh_  - Reply to #160
glue?
<< Comment #11 @ 05:46 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm 
Omg what a fail again

So they took deathadder, changed the lens for 0,3mm less lod and fucked up dpi even more 500 wtf, left the same fucked up shape instead of copying rzr mambas but hey! Now we got it in 2 sizes and colors lol. Default 1000hz? Awesum :|

Perfect mouse:
- wmo/salmosa/abyssus or ie3.0/mamba shape
- mx500 sensor without prediction
- 125/500hz and 400/800 dpi switches on the bottom
- NO FUCKING LEDS
- and no glossy finish it has to be grippy


Did i miss sth?

Is it rly that fucking hard?
<< Comment #14 @ 06:44 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Sweden oreozz  - Reply to #11
use math to fix the dpi

1000hz is better

glossy doesnt necessarily mean bad grip
<< Comment #17 @ 07:03 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #14
Deathadder shape=bad grip

^this+glossy finish= fail

And why they force me to recalculate everything each time just use standard fucking 400/800/1600/3200/6400/12800/15400dpi! LOL
<< Comment #40 @ 10:16 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Lithuania GUArd  - Reply to #17
deathadder is nice mouse, but as i know it have some problems yes? and it weight more then ie3?

ie3 for me best mouse, becoz its weight low, big , good size and not bad sensor.
<< Comment #15 @ 06:55 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By QW tbone  - Reply to #11
- EC1 looks like it is the same shape as the ms3.0, which is fine.
- If 1000hz works and it's plug and play, then there is no reason to have 500hz or 125hz
- Why would you care if the dpi is 500/1000/2000? There is no logical reason as to why you would consider 400 better than 500, or 800 better than 1000.

There are no LEDs on this, and there is a choice of glossy or grippy. Personally I would like the glossy one since my hands sweat a lot and would need to clean it often.

Apart from the assumed prediction (which it doesn't say anything about) There doesn't appear to be a problem with this mouse and the things you are ranting about are just weird. It sounds like you have some subjective idea of how things should be.
Edited by tB0nE at 06:55 CDT, 15 July 2010
<< Comment #23 @ 08:01 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #15
Omg
<< Comment #48 @ 11:06 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Belgium Trance  - Reply to #23
ahahahha I'm starting to think you have some kind of obsession with mices :D Everytime there's a talk about them you come in bashing them all then praising only ms 3.0, or whatever the one you're in love with is.

Chillax and give these new guys a chance by at least waiting for some proper reviews of this mouse.
Edited by Trance at 11:06 CDT, 15 July 2010
<< Comment #50 @ 11:31 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #48
the point is there re no mice to love while its very simple to produce one and thats the problem

Im not praising any specific mouse i just bash whats bad and in da its i.e. Its shape (i use one myself atm
<< Comment #20 @ 07:24 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #11
Perfect mouse:
- i dont think they could of get any closer to the Mamba shape without copyright infringement or the Zowie version could be even better we will have to wait and see.
- They use the same sensor as the MX518 apparently so no problem there.
- 125/500hz and 400/800 dpi switches on the bottom / I agree but their is a DPi switch on the bottom
- NO FUCKING LEDS - their isn't any LED's on the mouse
- Their is a glossy and Grippy version just your personal preference
also their is 2 different sizes for each.
Edited by GreenMeanie at 07:24 CDT, 15 July 2010
<< Comment #24 @ 08:02 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #20
Omg

Copyright? R u blind? This is just an uglier deathadder. Could ve been mamba as well. Do u at least know whats so good in mamba shape what deathadders lacks?
Edited by 7herm at 08:08 CDT, 15 July 2010
<< Comment #29 @ 08:21 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #24
i was just comparing what you said to this new HeatoN mouse.
and no i haven't used a Mamba because i don't want to that much on a gaming product also the fact its wireless what is a big no no in my books :D
i'm not disagreeing with you I 100% agree with all of them points but i was just saying this new HeatoN mouse ticks most of them from what it says on the Tech Specs.
Edited by GreenMeanie at 08:23 CDT, 15 July 2010
<< Comment #38 @ 09:47 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Lithuania GUArd  - Reply to #24
what is bad in DA and good in mamba?
i just asking, intresting.
for me mamba looks super, but it shit mouse i guess.
<< Comment #39 @ 10:02 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #38
Ye its a bad mouse but if u carefully look how its shaped on the right side u will notice it has something similar to mx500 or ie3.0 - a place for your ring finger so u dont have to struggle for a proper grip as it is with da...

Imperator has similar thing

I would post u a picture but its impossible from the iphone so u must google it
<< Comment #44 @ 10:39 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Seychelles im a tree  - Reply to #39
a place for your ring finger so u dont have to struggle for a proper grip as it is with da...

what the fuck is wrong with your hands
<< Comment #47 @ 11:05 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By t2 tourist  - Reply to #39
it's not a place for ring finger per se, rather the angle at which the side of the DA slopes. it should go straight down at a 90 deg angle relative to the surface, instead it's sloped which makes it hard to grip and rsi friendly.
<< Comment #51 @ 11:32 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #47
Yep
<< Comment #33 @ 09:19 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By t2 tourist  - Reply to #20
their iz a british flag next to you're nickaem. accidant?
<< Comment #35 @ 09:20 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #33
?
<< Comment #36 @ 09:22 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By t2 tourist  - Reply to #35
wat your saying
<< Comment #32 @ 09:00 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #11
Perfect mouse:

- 800 dpi
- max perfect tracking >= 4.5m/s
- long (2m +) and thin but durable cable (like razer's)
- no technical flaws
- durable build
- different shapes

I would like the shapes wmo like, wingman gaming like, salmosa/logi pilot wheel like, logi mouseman wheel like

I would like different materials and/or coatings to chose from, first choice would be GLOSSY, because it has much better sticking friction in most cases.
<< Comment #34 @ 09:19 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Seychelles zealot  - Reply to #32
* 800-1000dpi
* 500-1000hz usb
* low weight
* max perfect tracking up to ~2m/s
* low lift-off-distance
* non slippery case
* teflon feet
* no prediction
* no technical issues (neg/pos accel, shit built quality)

shapes: wmo/ ms3.0/ pilot/ wgm

well... it's never going to happen :p
Edited by zealot at 10:56 CDT, 15 July 2010
4%
<< Comment #37 @ 09:39 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #34
WGM... now that shape was legendary imo.... there is no mouse shaped like that today, short but wide
<< Comment #43 @ 10:25 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Seychelles zealot  - Reply to #37
i never tried the g9 shape, some people say it's somewhat similar. i'm still sad there was never an optical version of the wgm :<
<< Comment #54 @ 12:29 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #43
I would think you did, because g9 and g9x are the same shape(s). I'm already looking for a g9x used because as you said it is close to the WGM but I don't want to pay more then 30€ for a mouse... no luck yet :)
<< Comment #63 @ 16:13 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Seychelles zealot  - Reply to #54
with 'trying' i meant owning and playing with either the g9 or the g9x for a while. just touching it in a shop doesn't count .) it's a shame they're so expensive.

btw the dreadful fatal1ty mouse had a shape somewhat close to the wgm too.
<< Comment #72 @ 05:20 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Unset azxx  - Reply to #63
i've actually seen 2 old but packed pieces of the WGM at a local computer store. this was over a month ago, but i think they'll still be around; no one's gonna be interested lol
<< Comment #93 @ 11:29 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Seychelles zealot  - Reply to #72
i have one lying around somewhere too :)
<< Comment #62 @ 16:11 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America mental  - Reply to #37
Yes it was. By the time mine stopped working (the frigging rollers were toast :( ), they didn't make it anymore. Give me that mouse with a sensor similar to what's in the mx300/500. Could call it "Ponyboy", cause it'd be golden.
<< Comment #263 @ 05:34 CDT, 7 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland Glymbol  - Reply to #32
What you desribed is more or less A4Tech AK-47 except stiff cord.
<< Comment #264 @ 06:02 CDT, 7 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #263
Looks nice, very plain I like that. But I can't get one in europe so I will never know if it is that good.
<< Comment #46 @ 10:48 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Nobles3 Drexciyian  - Reply to #11
Black - rubber
white = glossy
<< Comment #18 @ 07:12 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America revocelot 
I don't like this:

500/1,000/2,000 DPI adjustment

It needs the standard 400/800 dpi. What the hell?
<< Comment #26 @ 08:08 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #18
There is no use for a standard really.

For OS you can use the mouse speed slider, for games you can use dinput or raw input, then measure cm/360 or calculate the new sens:

new sens = old sens * old dpi / new dpi
<< Comment #19 @ 07:19 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By lvlup2 lolvc 
People will never learn, so close but yet so far, pretty much like the XAI.

- 2 shapes with 4 different sizes? Somebody please remind me where my nearest Zowie store is. I hate to say it but the g9x got it better.

- Mouse feet are too large

- I'd still rather they use the 1800dpi 3g sensor from the deathadder with a less translucent prism to significantly reduce the current lift-off distance. Infact, i'd rather Razer re-release their deathadder with a less translucent prism, but who am i kidding.

Maybe one day some company will hire a super nerd like me. Me along with injx (to tell me when i'm wrong).. the gaming peripheral world be ruled!
Edited by nvc at 07:39 CDT, 15 July 2010
<< Comment #22 @ 07:41 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #19
They are the same but they made a small version and a larger version. with the option of Plastic or Rubber.

So
The bigger version of the mouse Rubber / Plastic version
EC1: 128 x 43 x 62~70 mm / 5 x 1.7 x 2.44~2.76 inch

Smaller version Rubber / Plastic
EC2: 120 x 40 x 58~65 mm / 4.72 x 1.57 x 2.28~2.56 inch
Edited by GreenMeanie at 07:41 CDT, 15 July 2010
<< Comment #25 @ 08:04 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #19
^this

And im curious how would u describe the perfect mouse? My description is a few posts up
<< Comment #42 @ 10:20 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Unset azxx  - Reply to #19
ermmm, it's not 2 shapes with 4 different sizes. it's 2 sizes with 2 colors each.
<< Comment #45 @ 10:47 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Seychelles im a tree  - Reply to #19
i would never buy something made by you
<< Comment #53 @ 12:25 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By lvlup2 lolvc  - Reply to #45
Good, don't want bad NTF players using my peripherals.
<< Comment #65 @ 18:13 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Seychelles im a tree  - Reply to #53
ntf is a bad game for bad players but when i do occasionally delve into the cesspit of delusional shitpools that are #cpmpickup ntf games i tend to sit on faces
<< Comment #80 @ 06:51 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany Anonymous (89.183.2.214)  - Reply to #19
The Prototype of the perfect mouse, already exists.
I own it :P

If it had professional build quality, it would be indeed perfect.

i posted it already some day , but never got attention. :(

http://img42.imageshack.us/g/img0203r.jpg/
<< Comment #83 @ 07:55 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By t2 tourist  - Reply to #80
I see some shit razer mouse.
<< Comment #85 @ 08:49 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #83
:D

It's DA with a normal red LED (--> lower lift-off distance) and better grip for the sides. ;)
<< Comment #92 @ 11:02 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By lvlup2 lolvc  - Reply to #85
i changed the LED and the mouse wouldn't work? I had to put the old LED back in.
<< Comment #105 @ 05:41 CDT, 17 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany Anonymous (89.183.21.60)  - Reply to #92
it has to be an ultra bright red led or somethin.
I cut in the sides and filled them with liquid rubber.
<< Comment #135 @ 12:52 CDT, 20 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By A2 tzawk  - Reply to #105
how did you cut the sides? dremel tool?

looks great btw :D
<< Comment #143 @ 05:30 CDT, 21 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany thuNDa  - Reply to #135
indeed, i used some cheaper fake dremel with engraving thingy.
But that took ages.
<< Comment #145 @ 11:15 CDT, 21 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By A2 tzawk  - Reply to #143
oh, ok. I was thinking about doing the same thing, but wasnt sure if i would be able to pull it off. I was mainly worried about how thick or thin the plastic was and accidentally puncturing all the way through. How deep did you make it?
<< Comment #156 @ 05:56 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany thuNDa  - Reply to #145
just 1-2mm, due to the weakness of the tool, it wasnt too hard to prevent it from going through.
<< Comment #101 @ 03:12 CDT, 17 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By t2 tourist  - Reply to #85
did you actually shave that ledge off or is that a rubber sticker?
<< Comment #27 @ 08:11 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Sweden Anonymous (82.99.24.145) 
Perfect for me if the weight is about kinzu's. Even salmosa feels too heavy sometimes when sens is 50+ cm/ 360.
<< Comment #28 @ 08:19 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America Defeat 
Seems like a pretty solid mouse.
<< Comment #30 @ 08:32 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By rah GreenMeanie 
ZOWIE GEAR
The MSRP is 59,90 EUR. Availability is mid August. :)
source from their facebook.

TBH that price has put me off getting it, i think i will just stick with my MX518

i am disappoint, i was hoping is was going more like 30-40 Euros.
may as well just go for the original DA.
Edited by GreenMeanie at 11:55 CDT, 15 July 2010
<< Comment #31 @ 08:45 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea* 
I have high hopes for this mouse and the Zowie company in general. Everything they say sounds very nice so far, now if they can just deliver it will be epic win.
<< Comment #41 @ 10:18 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Unset azxx 
Zowie have done great work till now, and from the info available this does seem to be on the right track. the price really needs to be right, otherwise they'll have a relatively tough time. i also can't help but notice the design which they should've done better with. it looks like mixing the Deathadder/Kinzu/Xai together.
something else i think they should do is that all 4 types of the mouse should be the same price, as this will 'force' a buyer to go for preference and choice. otherwise buyers may lean towards a certain type which is cheapest, which beats the objective behind having these 4 types.
<< Comment #49 @ 11:20 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Bulgaria Nzr0 
lmao@500/1000/2000 DPI whine

I hope they keep changing it every time just to rage the "exact sensitivity" kids.
4%
<< Comment #52 @ 11:35 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #49
ure missing the point mr tard
<< Comment #55 @ 13:13 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Unset azxx  - Reply to #49
lol
<< Comment #61 @ 15:50 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 4 oneroomdisco 
I don't understand the DPI problem.

Can't people do math?
<< Comment #66 @ 18:13 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Seychelles im a tree  - Reply to #61
ESReality
<< Comment #67 @ 18:52 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United Kingdom ZeritoN  - Reply to #66
Is an anagram of Laser Yeti


ARE YOU TELLING US SOMETHING?!
<< Comment #109 @ 15:06 CDT, 17 July 2010 >>
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By Seychelles zealot  - Reply to #67
With expressions and I'm guessin
19 years is a youthful lesson
Fallin skies babe, open eyes babe
Can't you see what lays inside babe?
<< Comment #64 @ 17:22 CDT, 15 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe 
400/800 is like a standard. 500/100 not. thats all and result in sensi changes.
<< Comment #70 @ 04:14 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By United Kingdom Anonymous (82.46.94.135) 
Why not just know your sensitivity by cm/360 then this would never be a concern.
<< Comment #76 @ 06:13 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 InDepther  - Reply to #70
this
<< Comment #81 @ 07:06 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By Transparent cumrag  - Reply to #70
might be difficult for those who use accel, i guess
<< Comment #71 @ 04:51 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By ESR-Logo-Blue shady8701 
wtf is a heat-on mouse???
<< Comment #86 @ 09:17 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By United Kingdom Zensuji  - Reply to #71
Its a new feature for those winter months
<< Comment #73 @ 05:37 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By United States of America davis 
Quite literally a deathadder rip in terms of shape and look.

To quite a ridiculous degree to be honest.
<< Comment #74 @ 05:42 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By United Kingdom ZeritoN  - Reply to #73
That's what Zowie's other mice are (just rebranded 1.1s) so it's fair to see why they've basically just rebranded a DA
<< Comment #77 @ 06:28 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By United States of America davis  - Reply to #74
I see..
<< Comment #78 @ 06:37 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By United Kingdom ZeritoN  - Reply to #77
Nothing wrong with that though. Some companies start out by refining other good models. 1.1 and Deathadder are both great but with slight 'faults' that these other companies rectify (like coating, skates etc)

Steelseries started by modding 1.1 and 3.0's so can see where Zowie is going with this
<< Comment #79 @ 06:43 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By United States of America davis  - Reply to #78
Yeah, I miss my first DeathAdder, whatever sensor they have in the 3500dpi one causes 450dpi to skip all over the place. :/ A regression over a progression but it is what it is - Razer fucking up their best mouse ;)


The first iterations of the DA were fantastic, though. I may check out this mouse though as I love the feel and shape of the da.
<< Comment #82 @ 07:13 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By United Kingdom ZeritoN  - Reply to #79
For old times sake I just plugged in my old DA3.0G and messed around and geeze, why the fuck did I switch from this thing? Tracking is flawless, shape is nice, sides are irritating but meh

Might go back to it for a while :P
<< Comment #97 @ 13:51 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By United States of America davis  - Reply to #82
Yeah, I had the same one but I used it so much that it eventually wore out on me ;(. They are prettty damn nice mice.
<< Comment #104 @ 03:56 CDT, 17 July 2010 >>
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By PerpetualWar PerpetualWar  - Reply to #82
I modded mine for the same reason being slippery on the sides:

http://brainwashed-team.com/showphoto.php?photo_id=9
http://brainwashed-team.com/showphoto.php?photo_id=8

Fischer anti-slip on the sides and Hyperglidez feet. Now its as perfect as it gets (for me at least ;)
<< Comment #103 @ 03:47 CDT, 17 July 2010 >>
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By PerpetualWar PerpetualWar  - Reply to #73
idd
<< Comment #88 @ 10:17 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By 005 flowrush 
"EC1 and EC2 pure white, has the popular smooth coating which reduces sweaty palms."

lol what? Since when did a smooth glossy coating reduce sweat? If anything it creates a slip-n-slide.
<< Comment #89 @ 10:22 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By United Kingdom ZeritoN  - Reply to #88
Depends on material really. Sides of DA's are gloss and slip like fuck but 3.0 are gloss and never slip for me
<< Comment #90 @ 10:31 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By United States of America Coke15  - Reply to #89
Yes the sides of the deathadder are an absolute nightmare. And it looks like the heaton mouse still didn't learn the lesson.

Your hand is only resting on the top, the gripping happens on the sides. If razer took that rubber shit that is on the top of the deathadder and put it on the sides then it would be 10 times better.

Or they could just make it like the kinzu where the entire mouse has a nice grippy rubber surface.

Did anyone get the weight yet?
Edited by Auld at 10:32 CDT, 16 July 2010
<< Comment #95 @ 12:03 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #90
yes, that was the first what i was thinking too. rubber on top+glossy on the side=fail!
<< Comment #99 @ 23:51 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By 005 flowrush  - Reply to #89
I have the 3.0 and it isn't what I consider 'glossy'. The sides do not shine and reflect and it's a different kind of plastic that definitely grips decent, compared to say the DA, which even the newer one (which I own) is a slip-n-slide. It's sad to see so many new mice these days and either they have a good sensor but grip bad or have a good grip (like many of these 3rd party mice) but have a shitty sensor.
<< Comment #173 @ 04:51 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By PerpetualWar PerpetualWar  - Reply to #89
3.0 don`t have glossy sides afaik... I used it before and it was perfect regarding materials... DA on the other hand is really glossy and ultimately slippery.
<< Comment #175 @ 05:28 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By United Kingdom ZeritoN  - Reply to #173
Yeah the top of the 3.0 is the gloss bit but it's not slippery and is no way near as bad as the deathadder's sides
<< Comment #180 @ 09:13 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By PerpetualWar PerpetualWar  - Reply to #175
yeah DA is heavier and has slippery sides which makes it hard to hold and control... that`s the biggest problem with it for me, although I managed to fix it :)

3.0 is the perfect shape for me, but side buttons are much better for me on DA thats why I`m still using it, otherwise I would return to 3.0 immediately ;)
<< Comment #91 @ 10:36 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By Greece chickenfluGR  - Reply to #88
that's my exact same experience, that zowie 1.1 + G-RF combo must the worst 80euros i have ever spent, the pad's surface started absorbing water after 2-3 months of use and the mouse itself was soooo hard to grip when your hands were a little bit sweaty. cogenes mouse bag looks cool tho :p
<< Comment #98 @ 17:35 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By Transparent cumrag  - Reply to #88
the ms 1.1se had a glossy finish, and actually i had no problems with the grip.
<< Comment #100 @ 23:53 CDT, 16 July 2010 >>
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By 005 flowrush  - Reply to #98
i think it also depends on if you have sweaty hands or not. I'm one of the one's that does get oily hands, unless I'm playing in 70 degree's or less room.
<< Comment #106 @ 07:13 CDT, 17 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #100
I think you hit the nail on the head here. It depends what type of skin you have, sweaty, oily, dry all require a different coating for perfect grip I think.
<< Comment #102 @ 03:26 CDT, 17 July 2010 >>
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By Australia Anonymous (61.68.126.190)  - Reply to #98
I thought people loved it because of the glossy grip?
<< Comment #111 @ 07:30 CDT, 18 July 2010 >>
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By fnatic3 kAi^ 
ZOWIE I DUN WANT IT
<< Comment #112 @ 10:40 CDT, 18 July 2010 >>
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By anonymous Anonymous (109.61.48.106) 
I can't understand how these big companies still couldn't come up with the perfect mouse (not only Zowie but Razer, SS and so on..). Of course the shape is the hardest thing to make perfect but the hardware could have been done already (maybe the massive amount of stupid people who are amazed by "5600dpi pinpoint accuracy" don't really put pressure on them to make it). There are so many smart guys even here who knows how mice really work and what is important and good hardware wise, yet these companies still make stupid mistakes.
I use a 3.0 at the moment (had DA before but it broke and didn't want to spend that much on the new "improved" version). Someone mentioned the shape problem with the DeathAdder that your ring finger doesn't have a good space on it. I just want to say it is very user dependant. After a few years of playing games (I'm that brave to count them :D) I just noticed how people hold their mice. I have to say I was shocked to realise that I press mouse2 button with my ring finger so my middle finger always rest on the wheel (I never copied the playstyle or anything from others maybe that's why i just realised this but it's still weird). I wonder does anyone hold his mouse like me?:P
<< Comment #113 @ 11:20 CDT, 18 July 2010 >>
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By cpm_biohaz_2 stunt.us  - Reply to #112
i think czm did
<< Comment #164 @ 13:40 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
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By Sweden oreozz  - Reply to #113
tox as well
<< Comment #165 @ 13:40 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
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By Sweden oreozz  - Reply to #164
and draven
<< Comment #166 @ 13:40 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
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By Sweden oreozz  - Reply to #165
and maybe avek?
<< Comment #115 @ 02:19 CDT, 19 July 2010 >>
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By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #112
Only a minority holds the mouse that way.

It's not simply about making a good or perfect mouse but about making a mouse you can sell.

What "we" think is the perfect mouse might be hard to sell to the masses, otherwise the mouse will cost too much so that not even "we" would buy it.
<< Comment #116 @ 03:36 CDT, 19 July 2010 >>
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By United Kingdom ZeritoN  - Reply to #112
Fair few people play like that, Fatal1ty, Stermy etc
<< Comment #129 @ 05:21 CDT, 20 July 2010 >>
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By blank koekie  - Reply to #112
Me too haha!
Thought I was the only one that did this :)
<< Comment #147 @ 15:38 CDT, 21 July 2010 >>
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By hemostick's grenade j0sh_  - Reply to #112
Yeah I hold my mouse that way as well in order to be able to switch weapons without having to take my finger away from my shoot or jump buttons (mouse 1 & 2).
<< Comment #114 @ 23:36 CDT, 18 July 2010 >>
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By 010 clitsucker 
I also rest my middle fucking finger on the scrollwheel :P
<< Comment #136 @ 12:52 CDT, 20 July 2010 >>
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By A2 tzawk 
tzawk
<< Comment #161 @ 12:03 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
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By QW tbone 
This site:

http://geekfeat.com/2010/07/zowie-ec-series-g...announced/

Says it doesn't have prediction. I think we have a winner. When can I buy it?
<< Comment #163 @ 13:38 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
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By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #161
So now we have one mail from Zowie that says no prediction and another one that says they have prediction.

EC1: 97 grams
EC2: 93 grams

I hoped they would be lighter.
<< Comment #195 @ 17:23 CDT, 25 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #163
the info from the link is that they use a A3060 i think this is the sensor from the mx300... so if this true.. this mouse can be realy great.
<< Comment #197 @ 02:15 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #195
Yea, I read that.

The MX300 had the A2020 (exclusive to Logitech) not the A3060.

A3060 and A3080 share the same hardware, just a different srom.

Afaik the Ikari Optical (only mouse with the A3060 that pops in my head right now) actually loads the A3080 srom (firmware) if you set it to 1600 CPI, that's why there is a lag when changing CPI.
Don't ask me why.
<< Comment #199 @ 06:24 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #197
cant find any datasheets to the "A2020?" sensor. and if u look :here: it looks for me that the MX300 use a kind of prototyp from the A3060. thats the reason why i say in the mx300 works a A3060.

but if u want u can check out the datasheets on the avago site with sensors around the number "2020" but this sensors dont have 30*30pixel and dont hit the framerates or other specs.

2020 is a virtual name. i think they opened a mx300 and on the chip was not a number like Axxxx. curz it was logitech exclusive. so there stand something from logitech on the sensor. next thing u can do is looking for other number arround he sensor. the lens has the number 2120 or something like this. so what do a smart guy? he says oh the lens is called 2120 so i call the sensor "2020?".
<< Comment #200 @ 07:08 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #199
http://brooksbots.com/Extrasensory.htm

It's in the text and you can see it in the last picture. ;)

Ofc you cant find a public data sheet for an exclusive sensor, for the same reasons why you won't find a S3668 data sheet.
<< Comment #201 @ 07:29 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #200
right. on the chip stays A2020. so this can be a "codename". the A3060 and A3080 wasnt out at this time. i still stay on my theory that the A2020 is a older version from the 3060. 30*30px, 20pin, looks like a 3060 and only the cpi and max fps are little bit diffent.
<< Comment #202 @ 08:03 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #201
Sry but if a sensor is labeled as A2020 it's an ADNS-2020, just as an A3080 is an ADNS-3080 and an A9500 is an ADNS-9500.

Ofc Avago doesn't make a new design for every sensor and most off the time a new sensor is based on the older generations with quiet similar hardware.
But that doesn't make the A2020 "a kind of prototyp" of the A3060, it's just the A3060s predecessor where they afair first used a 30*30 array.
<< Comment #203 @ 08:42 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #202
i dont know if u dont want understand me or what is wrong.
A2020 compare to other sensors should be a 16*16 1500fps chip.

so the A2020 is ofcurse a "fakename". the real name should be arround "A3059".

2nd: u was the guy that says it shloud be a 3080 in the mouse only based on the data that zowie provide in there new´s. and u say the mouse MUST have angle snapping based on ur therory that all 3080 sensor has anglesnapping "build in".

now zowie says they use a 3060 and there is no anglesanpping.

ok, 3060 and 3080 are pretty much the same... and the A2020 is in hardware pretty much the same too. so i dont get ur point.

"A2020" is a bullshit name. use ur brain.

the sensor in the zowie mouse can do the same job like the sensor from the mx300 or mx518 and only the changes from avago and zowies lens can improve or fuck up the new mouse.
<< Comment #207 @ 09:26 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #203
Calm down.

You say A2020 is a "fake name" just because that would fit in your theory.
Avago can name their sensor just like they want.
Btw, Avago introduced the A3060 about 2 years after the MX300/500.

I said that from the specs I'm pretty sure they use the A3080 (your fault that you didm't wanna bet :D), which has angle snapping "from the shelf" and every other mouse using the A3080 had angle snapping.
I never said it's impossible to get a angle snapping free optical sensor from Avago, just that it's most likely not so easy for a small company like Zowie.
Razer is much bigger and they got one (also for the Copperhead/A6010) and Logitech would also easily get one if they wanted.
I still find it odd that Zowie doesn't advertise the no angle snapping thingy because you don't get it for free.
Maybe they just wanted guys like us disscussing this topic, gives them free attention.
I wouldn't be surprised if the EC loads "an" A3080 srom/firmware if you set it to 2000 CPI.
<< Comment #213 @ 10:44 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #207

You say A2020 is a "fake name" just because that would fit in your theory.
Avago can name their sensor just like they want.
they do... like i sayed it should be a A3059 ;)


Btw, Avago introduced the A3060 about 2 years after the MX300/500.


like i sayed "prototype" and the A3060 is "non exclusiv for logitech"


I said that from the specs I'm pretty sure they use the A3080 (your fault that you didm't wanna bet :D), which has angle snapping "from the shelf" and every other mouse using the A3080 had angle snapping.


and i say the A2020 is pretty much the same like the 3060.

I never said it's impossible to get a angle snapping free optical sensor from Avago, just that it's most likely not so easy for a small company like Zowie.
Razer is much bigger and they got one (also for the Copperhead/A6010) and Logitech would also easily get one if they wanted.
like i sayed. it a feature. and u only have to delete some lines in the code and u have one without prediction. the companysize dont matter.


I still find it odd that Zowie doesn't advertise the no angle snapping thingy because you don't get it for free.
Maybe they just wanted guys like us disscussing this topic, gives them free attention.
I wouldn't be surprised if the EC loads "an" A3080 srom/firmware if you set it to 2000 CPI.

its all the time the same answere: deleting some lines in the code and u dont have prediction at all.

and u can only advertise a new feature, but not disable a feature. even if it was bad. its like a paradox. but companies normaly dont care such a thing ;) but i would not advertise it too.
<< Comment #250 @ 07:33 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #213
Lets forget the A2020/S2020/A3060 thing, we have different opinions on that and neither of us has evidence simply because there isn't public info about exclusive sensors. ;)

I don't know if it's simply "deleting some lines of code", I seriously doubt it, but neither do you.
By the way, you can download the SROM from Avago.

If you are right, company size doesn't matter and everyone can do it, allthough I would wonder why nobody has done it before.
If I'm right (and of course I think that's the case :D) company size is an important factor. ;)

SS and Razer did advertise it.
Normally you would expect them to advertise the things what makes their product special and what makes it good, regardless if it's something new, to show what their mice can do.
I see angle snapping as something many people care about, especially their target audience.
<< Comment #252 @ 07:44 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #250
u are right. i download the file earlyer but i cant realy open it. curz its not a normal text file.

and yes i think anglesnapping is an algorism = some lines code - that u can easy delete.

if it is a bug than is it an other story.

i dont know why the companies dont request sensor without anglesnapping. can be that they like it ;)
<< Comment #254 @ 08:10 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #252
It's an "ASCII text file with each 2-character
byte (hexadecimal representation) on a single line".

Not long ago most of them didn't even know about angle snapping.
<< Comment #257 @ 08:35 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #254
the question is: is it a feature or a bug?
<< Comment #258 @ 08:44 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #257
Feature
<< Comment #260 @ 09:56 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #252
my guess is that angle snapping is a by-product of a modified optical flow algorithm. On the other hand with the deathadder you still have high max tracking without angle snapping
<< Comment #259 @ 09:53 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #250
If I understand correctly the srom contains compiled code (prefix .s19 looks like a compiled assembler file) so it is no use to look at it?! Or maybe there is another way I don't know of
<< Comment #261 @ 11:30 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #259
Dunno, if have no clue about coding. :D
<< Comment #168 @ 22:09 CDT, 22 July 2010 >>
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By Malaysia somiao 
The hell my source says it has prediction? Maybe my source is wrong? He didn't knew a thing about prediction but can do perfect straight lines, but if so why didn't they clarify it when i asked them about it?
Anyway if this is the way it turns out i'll be very pleased, knew heaton won't disappoint =D
<< Comment #171 @ 04:15 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By QW tbone  - Reply to #168
Hmmm, :(
<< Comment #169 @ 03:09 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By australia-nsw end0rphine 
How do I preorder? :O
<< Comment #170 @ 03:19 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By rah GreenMeanie 
+ optical
+ low LOD
+ plastic or rubber coating
+ different sizes
+ good shape (DA)
+ mwheel is unbreakable
+ 1000hz plug n play
+ DPI switch out of the way
:D
- MSRP 59,90 EUR
:(
<< Comment #174 @ 05:13 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By Belgium Trance  - Reply to #170
Cmon, it's not like you live in Afghanistan.

I want one of these so badly. They sound too good to be true, but it's worth a try.
<< Comment #176 @ 06:07 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #174
yes it has epic features and i will probably pick myself one up.
but c'mon it's a mouse with a optical sensor it should cost that much to make i just think they are exploiting the fact razer and steelseries have been able to get away with the high price tags and just copying them and also an extra 10 euros because it says HeatoN.

If the mouse was 40 euros and all that its cracked up to be Zowie would be awesome and final teach all the other gaming companies pc gamers dont want over 9000dpi,flashing light and DPI switch in a retarded place.
<< Comment #177 @ 07:10 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By Belgium Trance  - Reply to #176
All that is true, but when gamers pay over 60-70 eur sometimes for some more than retarded mices, it is only normal they have a similar MSRP for a mouse that brings almost everything a true gamer wants/needs (unless proven wrong by actual tests).
<< Comment #178 @ 08:48 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #177
we will have to wait and see :)
<< Comment #179 @ 09:01 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By QW tbone  - Reply to #176
Imagine microsoft starts making WMO's with 800dpi, at £10 a pop.
<< Comment #181 @ 09:17 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By QW tbone  - Reply to #179
On that theme, how is the Microsoft Comfort Optical Mouse 3000?
<< Comment #185 @ 10:31 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By Unset azxx  - Reply to #181
decent shape, 1000dpi sensor can go bonkers sometimes, tilt wheel kills it.
<< Comment #183 @ 09:55 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By United Kingdom Thorin 
HeatoN's mouse during his whole CS career: IE 3.0
This mouse looks like: IE 3.0
Most of the people in this thread's reaction: IT'S OBVIOUSLY COPIED OFF THE DEATHADDER INNIT
5%
<< Comment #184 @ 10:25 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By lvlup2 lolvc  - Reply to #183
haha +++++++++++++
<< Comment #187 @ 14:36 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By United Kingdom ZeritoN  - Reply to #183
Same dimensions
Same scroll wheel
Same side buttons
Same gloss sides
Same dpi switch on underside
Same rubber coating ontop on the black ones


It's got nearly nothing in common with the 3.0 except the same things the deathadder does... Which is ironically, what it's modeled on


Derp?
<< Comment #243 @ 22:45 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By lvlup2 lolvc  - Reply to #187
deathadder is a 3.0 copy...
<< Comment #247 @ 04:02 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By United Kingdom ZeritoN  - Reply to #243
Yeah... but it's still different in dimensions and the little bits like scrolls wheel, buttons and sensor... All of which is the same on this one :|
<< Comment #186 @ 11:11 CDT, 23 July 2010 >>
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By cpm_biohaz_2 stunt.us 
whats wrong with prediction?
<< Comment #188 @ 11:21 CDT, 25 July 2010 >>
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By Malaysia somiao 
New info, it has lights, on the mwheel, purple, blue, red, EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!
<< Comment #189 @ 11:48 CDT, 25 July 2010 >>
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By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #188
source?
<< Comment #190 @ 11:55 CDT, 25 July 2010 >>
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By Poland aerial 
I don't get why people want low dpi for their "perfect mouse". Too hard to change sens to get same distance/360? Too low dpi is a flaw, because if you are high senser mouse becomes useless, you will skip pixels (2d) if you increase sensitivity. 2k dpi should be enough for all highsensers, but 800 for example is too low (not to mention 400).
<< Comment #191 @ 12:10 CDT, 25 July 2010 >>
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By 005 flowrush  - Reply to #190
Maybe because not all people NEED more dpi? The best players in the world have used and still use 400 dpi mice, end of story. Calling it a flaw and saying it's useless if you're a high senser (hi Rapha) just makes you look even more of a fool who doesn't know what he's talking about.
<< Comment #192 @ 13:03 CDT, 25 July 2010 >>
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By Poland aerial 
Take 400 dpi mouse, increase sensitivity, and try to draw a circle, or stright line, it skips pixels. I know it is doesn't work that way in fps games, but there is also 2d environment, high dpi mouse would be perfect for both. There is no harm if mouse has higher dpi, and it makes difference if dpi is low.

Useless was an exaggeration, usually gamers are used to old mice, so they are using them because of shape. You can still win using them, but it doesn't make them better. I was referring to situation when I use mouse not only for gaming but also to work, and i need pixel precision in 2d (+ i don't want doormat size mousepad and lifting my mouse 3x to move cursor from opposite edge of screen).

Btw, as for wmo (or other low dpi mouse) vs high sens quake. What would be cm/360 sens to actually see inaccurate movement in game? Because it will happen eventually, there is border value (and if it matters for a progamer is another story).
Edited by aerial at 13:07 CDT, 25 July 2010
<< Comment #198 @ 05:50 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Poland Anonymous (87.206.50.203)  - Reply to #192
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1682180#pid1682180
for 1024x768+fov90+pitch/yaw 0.022 sens would be 5.0866
with DPI 400
I = 20.428
above that sens you would skip px
<< Comment #204 @ 08:51 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #198
its bullshit in fps based games... curz the math is in pixel and resolution.

but ingame the resolution dont matter. its all about degree.

if u move ur mouse 400 counts to the right the game makes on sensi 1, m_yaw/pitch 1 a 400 degree turn to right.

so all what u could skip is degree but thats bullshit ;)

curz a 400dpi mouse make 400 counts per inch = 400degree per inch

a 800 dpi mouse make 800 counts per inch = 800 degree per inch.

yaw ptich and sensi tweaks this. so that 1 count is not 1degree. its the "finetune" that let u "dont" let skip degree. and in the real world u will ever skip degree. even it is 0.00000000000001 degree.
Edited by r4pe at 08:57 CDT, 26 July 2010
<< Comment #208 @ 09:36 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Poland Anonymous (87.206.50.203)  - Reply to #204
it's all about representing 3D scene od 2D plane, that's why injx calculated tan[ F / 2 ]
http://www.funender.com/quake/files/injx/injxsketch.jpg
<< Comment #211 @ 10:21 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #208
this is only a model far away from the realworld. like a model from a atom.

a monitor or LCD has a nativ resolution from around 100 dpi or a little lower. the wmo has 4 times more. so there cant be any pixelskipping.

now set multiplicator like yaw, pitch and sensi and a multiplicator in the mouse for the cpi can fuck up this nativ settup from mouse vs monitor dpi.

example:

u have a 1:1 monitor for 400 dpi. so the displaysize is 1inch*1inch and has 400*400pixel and u have 2 mouses, one with 400 and one with 800 nativ cpi/dpi.

this works so:

if u move the 400cpi mouse 1 inch the "cursor" move one inch on screen. 1pxel = 1count

with the 800cpi mouse u only have to move a half inch what result in 400 counts to move the cursor 1 inch. 1pixel = 1count.

this means there cant be any pixelskipping and a higher dpi mouse has not more precision on screen!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
it would be a difference if the 800cpi mouse would work like 1/2pixel = 1 count. or the display has 800dpi. but this is only a model and u cant compare it to the realy world.

every monitor is arround 100dpi and every count from the mouse is 1 pixel(in 2d) or 1 degree (in d3) on screen. (if its not u have multiplicators like sensi yaw and pitch)

i hope that clears up my point of view.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

next thing fov 90 is the vertical viewangle.... so u have to do the math with the hight from the screenresolution. 1024*768 means that u do it with 768!!!! and not with 1024.

the horizontal viewangle on a 4:3 screen with cvar fov 90 is 106.26degree! that u can use for 1024.
Edited by r4pe at 11:06 CDT, 26 July 2010
<< Comment #214 @ 11:34 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #211
Uhm, I think you somehow forgot about sensitivity... You can work out the 'ideal' sensitivity where it is as you say, every count mouse movement is translated to 1 pixel on screen. But with sensitivities higher than that the mouse obviously loses accuracy, up to a point where the mouse is not accurate enough for the screen resolution.

I can give an example. If you have a sens of 5 cm/360 and 400 cpi, 5 cm on your pad are roughly divided by 800 steps, or counts (cpi - counts per inch, 1 inch = 2.54 cm). But the smallest entity you can turn on screen is one pixel. With a fov of 90 and a screen resolution of 800 pixels horizontally you have 4 times 800 pixels = 3200 pixels to turn 360°, but you only have an accuracy of 800 steps available from the mouse to turn 360°. So the smallest movement with your mouse will result in a movement of 4 pixels on screen. With 1600 dpi it would be 1 pixel.

I could have miscalculated somewhere but the principle still stands.
Edited by crea* at 11:41 CDT, 26 July 2010
<< Comment #216 @ 12:29 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #214
plz stay on my example...

1:1 display with 400pixel per inch, sensi 1, yaw/pitch 1 and two mouses (400 and 800cpi).

the easyest example now is setting sensi up to 400. than i have 1 count = 400 pixel and i have "pixelskipping" but this is bullshit.

and a 800cpi mouse dont change this problem, it makes it bigger curz u only need the half way to make a 400pixel "jump"/skip.

--------------
the 360 shit dont matter atm. curz the Smalest Possible Turn is:

SPT = 1count*m_yaw*sensi = degree (and not pixel)

and this has nothing to do with fov or the monitor resolution.
<< Comment #218 @ 13:04 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #216
With your example: you will move the 800 dpi mouse only half the way as a 400 dpi mouse to travel the imaginary 400 pix screen, which means it could possibly be twice as accurate, only the resolution is already covered by the 400 dpi mouse so there seems to be no difference.

Now look at my example to understand what pixel skipping actually means, a mouse setup where your mouse resolution isn't enough to cover the monitor resolution. That's the only case pixel skipping could even occur!
Edited by crea* at 13:08 CDT, 26 July 2010
<< Comment #220 @ 13:53 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #218
u dont understand the point ;)

With your example: you will move the 800 dpi mouse only half the way as a 400 dpi mouse to travel the imaginary 400 pix screen,
i wrote it ;)

which means it could possibly be twice as accurate, and if you divide the sens by 2 it is.

no. there is no more precision. curz one thing is fix: 1count = 1pixel.




Now look at my example to understand what pixel skipping actually means, a mouse setup where your mouse resolution isn't enough to cover the monitor resolution. That'S the only case pixel skipping could even occur!


again brainlag ;)

a display has arround 100dpi or lower, the wmo has 400dpi. u never hit this point!

in theorie u have on a 800 ppi screen with a 800 cpi mouse more "precision" compare to a 400 cpi mouse. but only if u call "precision" that u have to move smaler steps. curz at least here is 1count = 1 pixel too. and u only have to move the 400 dpi mouse more than the 800dpi mouse.

-----------------------------------

next thing. the gameengine locate ur position and ur viewangle at first. than based on this the renderer give out a image with the fov and resolution u set in cg_fov and r_mode. this is the next point that make "pixelskipping" impossible.

all what matter is the Smalest Possible Turn this must so smal that u dont have "tearing" on screen. what i mean is that the crosshair jumps (in degree). u can see this if u go ingame and set the yaw/pitch to 1 and sensi to 1 or 0.1 and moving the mouse only one "step". on a 400cpi mouse u need the double way than on a 800 cpi mouse but the jump on screen is the same.

i hope that u now understand what i am talking about.
<< Comment #223 @ 14:39 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By anonymous Anonymous (94.2.20.155)  - Reply to #220
I never understood why people dont just set their sensitivity to 1 and then just change the cpi to a number that feels good... obviously you need a xai or one that lets you tweak by low factors like 1cpi but that would surely provide the most accuracy and totally avoid any chance of pixel skipping?

unless I have missed something.
<< Comment #224 @ 14:52 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #223
Exact 1 to 1 translation or lower will gurantee pixel perfect accuracy so it's the same.
But there aren't many mice with exact cpi settings so your idea could be a lot harder to set up.
Edited by crea* at 14:56 CDT, 26 July 2010
<< Comment #226 @ 15:57 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #224
its not. u have yaw->value and sensi->value.. to do this. i think this is the reason that we have both and not only one ;) see my "crazy model."
<< Comment #228 @ 16:23 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #226
if you leave yaw alone, that's what I meant. you still can't get smaller steps then the screen resolution, and if you don't move in one pixel steps that's called pixel skipping, I don't know what you think it means.
Edited by crea* at 16:25 CDT, 26 July 2010
<< Comment #231 @ 16:34 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #228
pls... there is no "pixelskipping".

u only have degree steps.

next thing. the gameengine locate ur position and ur viewangle(axis) at first. than based on this the renderer give out a image with the fov and resolution u set in cg_fov and r_mode. this is the next point that make "pixelskipping" impossible.

all what matter is the Smalest Possible Turn this must so smal that u dont have "tearing" on screen. what i mean is that the crosshair jumps (in degree). u can see this if u go ingame and set the yaw/pitch to 1 and sensi to 1 or 0.1 and moving the mouse only one "step". on a 400cpi mouse u need the double way than on a 800 cpi mouse but the jump on screen is the same.

i hope that u now understand what i am talking about.
<< Comment #233 @ 17:19 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #231
*Edit:
Now I have an idea what you are saying, the idea of pixels on screen jumping is inaccurate, you mean angle jumping or skipping.

To better understand what I am getting at: imagine the 3d engine rendering the world in infinite small steps. Now the only two variables limiting the accuracy is a) the screen (smallest step one pixel) and b) the mouse (smallest step 1inch/cpi). Now you go from low sens to ultra high sens, with a set fov. now if you look exactly at the middle of the screen, at some point you will make jumps that are bigger then one pixel. That's the phenomenon I am talking about, you cannot deny that it happens.
Edited by crea* at 02:54 CDT, 27 July 2010
<< Comment #234 @ 18:13 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #233
they is no pixelskipping!

u are in the arena (ur model ;) )
and u look i a specific axis
now the renderer give u an image from what u should see.
the image is all the time based on the aspectratio (r_mode) and the fov based on (cg_fov 90) his means on a 4:3 screen u have a horizonal fov 106.26 degree and vertical 90 degree.

but the IMPORTENT factor is. the picture is based on u viewaxis!

to make it simple. the crosshaircenter is 0:0 on a X and Y axis. no matter what screensresolution. on screenresolution 800*600 u have a X axis from -400 to +400px and a Y axis from -300 to +300px.
so the image is around the centerpoint from ur field of view.

if u move the mouse u dont move +2 pixel or bullshit like this. ur field of view move around the vertical axis from ur modelbody in degree. the next image that u see on screen is again crosshaircenter 0:0 on a X and Y axis.

there cant be any "pixelskipping"

go ingame and check it out. set m_yaw 4 and sensi 1 and try around with yaw to 1,2,6,9 what ever and than u can change sensi.

yaw 10 sensi 1 = yaw 1 sensi 10

but yaw 4 sensi 1 u see the degreeskipping! that i talking about.
<< Comment #236 @ 19:01 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #234
Good, then let's not use this name. Let's say 'cpi induced inaccuracy'

Say with a set screen res and with a set fov and a set cpi (like it is when playing) your mouse will only have up to a certain sensitivity value (and I mean both sensitivity and yaw combined; or, one set yaw value) until your cursor starts doing bigger jumps. Lets say suddenly you do jumps of 4 pixels at a time AT THIS SET FOV. That's when higher dpi comes in very handy. You double the dpi, half the sens and suddenly you can do half the step size from before. IT'S A MIRACLE! I just tried exactly that.

Fov 90 means you look at 90 degrees, @800x600 that's 399 pixel left, 400 right if you have a crosshair the size of 1 pixel, or something like that. Of course the 3d perspective will warp the 2d image when moving, that's why you need to look exactly at the middle of the screen and watch the pixels next to the middle.

Whatever happens at other fov I can't tell right now but what matters is that your mouse dictates your highest sens at specific res, fov, cpi without jumping more then one pixel in the middle, where your 1 pixel crosshair is.

I'm done :)
<< Comment #240 @ 19:26 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #236
think about a dark room (not darkroom :p ) with only 1 white pixel in it.

u can set it so that the pixel is exactly on 1:1 on the X and Y axis. now move forward! the pixel will be bigger than 1 pixel on screen. and if u stay directly in front of the pixel the hole screen is white.

lol... its impossible to set the mouse to that what u think :p
<< Comment #245 @ 02:52 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #240
Good god wtf is this. Obviously you are confused, also you don't seem to pay enough attention to my posts to get the meaning, else you wouldn't write things like that.
<< Comment #235 @ 18:22 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #233
after ur edit:

I have to think about that tomorrow. Does that mean lower yaw/pitch is desired because like when zoomed you will move in smaller angle increments....?
i cant tell u something about zoomfov curz i dont know how it works. it can be that there is an algorism that affect the sensi.

but with the normal fov: if u lower the fov from 90 to 40 the sensi dont chance. but what u see is a smaler viewangle on the same screensize... its zoomed :D the sensi dont change at all. u can do the same 360 like on fov 90 or 130. but in this zoomed setting u see easyer the degreeskipping. 1 degree can be 500pixel on screen if u higher the fov 1 degree will be lower than 500 pixel.

thats how it works.


To better understand what I am getting at: imagine the 3d engine rendering the world in infinite small steps. Now the only two variables limiting the accuracy is a) the screen (smallest step one pixel) and b) the mouse (smallest step 1inch/cpi). Now you go from low sens to ultra high sens, with a set fov. now if you look exactly at the middle of the screen, at some point you will make jumps that are bigger then one pixel. That's the phenomenon I am talking about, you cannot deny that it happens.

u cant fix this! u can only fix this if u are in a room round room. like a vertical tube. and u have to stay in center. so that u have all the time the same distance to the walls no matter in which side u look.

than it is possible to sync the texturepixel, screenresolution and mousecounts via fov;r_mode and the sensisetting. but this is not the ingame world and if u move al fucks up. or like i like to say.. "its bullshit" ;)
Edited by r4pe at 18:31 CDT, 26 July 2010
<< Comment #237 @ 19:07 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #235
the first part you quoted was complete garbage on my part, my brain is melting from all the trying to explain better while slightly feeling kind of trolled... :p
<< Comment #238 @ 19:14 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #237
the 800 cpi mouse produce compare the a 400 cpi 2 time more counts.

1 count = 1 degree.

400 counts with yaw 1 and sensi 1 = 400 degree (400 steps 1:1)
800 counts with yaw 1 and sensi 0.5 = 400 degree too (800 steps 0,5:1)

u see something??

10 steps for 10 meter or 20 smaler steps for 10 meter. i told it the hole time ;)

but now we come down to nativ cpi from the mouse. the mouse can be only more accurat if the nativ cpi is realy 800. is the 800 only a mulitplicator the mouse is not more precise. and atm nobody tell us the realy array size from the wmo (22*22) and the A3060 (30*30). so we dont know the nativ cpi.
<< Comment #239 @ 19:19 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #238
1 count = 1 degree

why???? The rendering is only limited by the resolution. @fov90, res 1920:

1 count = 360/7680 degree = 0.0469 degree

n8
<< Comment #241 @ 19:31 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #239
ok for trolls ;)

http://www.notalent.org/sensitivity/sensitivity.htm

set 400 cpi and the other to 1 i think u will see it :p

and plz stop fucking me up with ur pixel resolution bullshit. it dont matter.
<< Comment #242 @ 19:51 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By QW faerie_  - Reply to #241
Guys, stop your shit and go read the journal [ or topic, I don't remember ] made by Memento Mori. There's tons of schemes and curves and shit and it's actually written in a decent english.
<< Comment #244 @ 02:45 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #242
Don't you worry about us wasting our time or writing in bad english, if anything this is good exercise. Anyways I'm done arguing.

Do you have a link to said post?
<< Comment #248 @ 07:07 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #239
i have some trouble with our "model".

1 count = 1 degree.

400 counts with yaw 1 and sensi 1 = 400 degree (400 steps 1:1)
800 counts with yaw 1 and sensi 0.5 = 400 degree too (800 steps 0,5:1)

i think this is right!

now i am a cool mousedesinger and know more cpi sells better.

nativ cpi from the mousesensor:

400 cpi = 400 counts with yaw 1 and sensi 1 = 400 degree (400 steps 1:1)
800 cpi = 800 counts with yaw 1 and sensi 0.5 = 400 degree (800 steps 0,5:1)
1600 cpi = 1600 counts with yaw 1 and sensi 0.25 = 400 degree 1600 steps 0.25:1

BUT i think the mousedesigner fuck us up and set only a multiplicator:

400 cpi = 400 counts with yaw 1 and sensi 1 = 400 degree (400 steps 1:1)
400 cpi * 2 = 800 counts with yaw 1 sensi 0.5 = 400 degree (400 steps 2:1)
400 cpi * 4 = 1600 counts with yaw 1 sensi 0.25 = 400 degree (400 steps 4:1)

so here u can see there will be no more precision. u can do the same only if u double the sensi from a 400 dpi mouse.
<< Comment #249 @ 07:18 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #248
imsg ;)
<< Comment #251 @ 07:36 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #248
Oh cmon, it's not like it isn't easy to check if the higher CPI of a certain mouse aren't simply interpolated.
<< Comment #253 @ 07:52 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #251
i checkt it few minutes ago with the mx518 and it look like the sensor works with nativ 1600 dpi.

now is the question: how they do this?

is the 30*30 array realy smaler or is it a different lens?
<< Comment #255 @ 08:21 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #253
CPI depends on many factors.

Maybe I can give you some info what the sensor actually does if you switch to another CPI value.
<< Comment #256 @ 08:32 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #255
maybe ;)

i was thinking that they only change a multiplicator.
<< Comment #265 @ 07:54 CDT, 7 August 2010 >>
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By Poland Glymbol  - Reply to #223
"I never understood why people dont just set their sensitivity to 1 and then just change the cpi to a number that feels good ... unless I have missed something."

Yes you have. Some games like CS 1.6 or Source have "bad" method of mouse handling. It causes negative acceleration with high CPI mouse and low resolution.

For example CS 1.6:
1.
resolution = 640x480
FPS = 100
mouse CPI = 400
sensitivity = 4.0
max horizontal speed = 2.03 m/s (on mousepad)
2.
resolution = 640x480
FPS = 100
mouse CPI = 1600
sensitivity = 1.0
max horizontal speed = 0.51 m/s

After axceeding this value, you will have same constant speed ingame regardless speed on mousepad (negative acceleration problem).
4%
<< Comment #222 @ 14:30 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #220
You most likely didn't get my point. If you change the screen res from 400 to 800 then there is twice the accuracy with the 800 cpi mouse or half with the 400 cpi mouse. Pixel skipping occurs at higher res together with low cpi and a high in_game sens.
I didn't talk about more accuracy at the same res, because that would make no sense.

Concerning pixel skipping, the smallest step you can possibly do is one pixel at a given res, That's why I talk about screen res in pixels. But if you set a higher screen res the turning will get more accurate. Then you need higher dpi then 400 for example.

I don't know what you're getting at with comparing screen res and mouse res. Not everyone wants to turn down his in-game sens so that no pixel skipping occurs, they will want to have the same sens even with a higher screen res.
If you already play 20+ cm/360 and only use 640 you are golden, but what about 1920 with 10cm/360°? Then you will have less accuracy compared to a higher dpi mouse because of pixel skipping. Look at my example again if it is still unclear what I'm saying.

Another example, the highest sens without pixelskipping at 400 cpi, screen res 1920, is 49cm/360 °, or sensitivity 2.1 ! That's really low, many players prefer a faster sens, that's when higher dpi are useful to maintain the highest possible accuracy which is one pixel at a time.

But I would say 2000 cpi are enough for everyone since there aren't many ultra-high sens players anymore.
Edited by crea* at 14:43 CDT, 26 July 2010
<< Comment #225 @ 15:54 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #222
sry curz this is bullshit.

the sensi is fix. no matter what resolution or fov u have.

20cm/360 on a 600er resolutions is the same on a HD resolution. u can change fov resolution how u want. at the end ingame u will see it is still 20cm/360°. so screen resolution is not the problem.

it sound crasy but i think lower yaw and increse sensi fix ur problem.
u smaler the Smalest Possible Turn and u have less "tearing".

my "model" for this is:
i can walk in 10 big steps 10 meter or i make 20 smal steps for the 10 meter. and it dont matter u can spactate it in 1m distance to me or 5km distance... my walkflow is much "smother" if i do 20 steps ;)



but pixelskipping is bullshit and dont exist :p
<< Comment #227 @ 16:19 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #225
Fov does affect sens. The sens will be the same with higher resolution but the steps will be smaller!
<< Comment #229 @ 16:28 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #227
NO! sry u are wrong again.

1count = 1 degree no mater what fov or screenresolution.

only m_yaw/pitch->value; sensitivity-> value; and accel->value; effect the "ingamesensitivity"

zoomfov can be a different story.
<< Comment #246 @ 02:57 CDT, 27 July 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #229
Hm true I was mistaken, in QL/q3 fov doesn't affect sens....I guess that was some other game, q1 maybe. That doesn't change the validity of anything else I said though.

1count = 1 degree no mater what fov or screenresolution.

This is so wrong. I should have stopped you right there with all your wrong assumptions based on almost nothing. I'm done.
<< Comment #215 @ 12:12 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Poland Anonymous (87.206.50.203)  - Reply to #211
you're right, it's just a model (only we have?)
with default windows sens and no mouse driver scalling m_yaw/m_pitch are elemental angles that 1 mouse tick rotates the scene we see and ingame sensitivity is simply a multiplicator of those values

so we should calculate m_yaw/m_pitch - values should be smaller than angle between lines connecting observer with edges of object (like enemy head) placed in maximum distance we encounter in particular game that would be represented by at least 1px at a given resolution
right?

without good knowlege of game engine that's impossible
and maybe mouse DPI would matter if m_yaw/m_pitch were really small :]

in conclusion: set all settings way they fits you and look at configs of best aimers :]
<< Comment #217 @ 12:31 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #215
u got it ;)
<< Comment #193 @ 15:31 CDT, 25 July 2010 >>
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By Malaysia somiao 
More info, 500dpi interval is suppose to be the best setting for the sensor in terms of lift off distance according to them, anyway i'm not in direct contact with them, but if there's any questions I'll try to forward it?
<< Comment #194 @ 15:41 CDT, 25 July 2010 >>
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By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #193
does the sensor actually work?
any skipping , positive or negative accel?
<< Comment #196 @ 19:02 CDT, 25 July 2010 >>
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By Belgium Trance  - Reply to #193
where do you keep taking these 'new infos' out of? I hope not your ass :(
<< Comment #205 @ 09:09 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Malaysia somiao 
Maybe i did do so? =D
http://img188.imageshack.us/i/zowie.jpg/
No skipping or accel issues, but dont take it too seriously cause only one person is testing it.
<< Comment #206 @ 09:25 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By sleepy lemming#13  - Reply to #205
That the EC1 in that pic?
<< Comment #209 @ 09:40 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By Seychelles zealot  - Reply to #205
xai / 3.0 / ec1?
<< Comment #212 @ 10:33 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By United Kingdom ZeritoN  - Reply to #209
kinzu / 1.1 / EC1

and just out of shot 3.0
Might be wrong bout it being a kinzu but I can't see side buttons so meh
Edited by ZeritoN at 10:34 CDT, 26 July 2010
<< Comment #221 @ 14:16 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Seychelles zealot  - Reply to #212
true, am embarassingly blind.
<< Comment #210 @ 10:07 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By australia-nsw end0rphine  - Reply to #205
How are the sides? Are they grippy or the same as the deathadder?
<< Comment #230 @ 16:33 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
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By QW faerie_ 
I hereby request our dear Memento Mori to repost the little article he wrote about sens, dpi and resolution cause I can't be arsed trying to explain stuff to people who either have an even more broken english than mine or simply don't understand shit about what they're talking about [ seen the first one, couldn't be arsed to read enough the find the second case ]
<< Comment #232 @ 16:48 CDT, 26 July 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By SC_Zerg [mash] 
got a mate who plays quake on his sofa with his laptop with the mouse on a blanket next to him.
<< Comment #262 @ 15:40 CDT, 5 August 2010 >>
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By anonymous Anonymous (79.191.187.135) 
@r4pe, u got some things wrong

first of all, the lens seems to be different and that the major influence on the counts, like if u do have taller mouse feet's the amount of counts in one inch will going to drop down

many companies used the trick with different lens to get more counts per inch

btw. from where u got the infos it they had used 3080?

anyway they cloud use 3060 witch is a lot faster than 3080 or uhh why not 3668? maybe not faster than 3060 but without axis snapping

anyway adns-3080 mounted in every mice had axis snapping, so it will be also in this mouse for about 99%

second thing is 1 count != 1 degree

amount of degrees in game is described as far i know by the amount of pixel in resolution, so u don't have 360 steps when u turning around but 3215,36 if the game run in 1024x768px
<< Comment #294 @ 04:44 CDT, 20 August 2010 >>
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By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #262
@r4pe, u got some things wrong
btw. from where u got the infos it they had used 3080?

-we have the infos from the avago website and the datasheets for the 3080 & 3060 sensors

second thing is 1 count != 1 degree

amount of degrees in game is described as far i know by the amount of pixel in resolution, so u don't have 360 steps when u turning around but 3215,36 if the game run in 1024x768px

in QL u have 1 count = 1 degree, so 360 counts = 360 degree

if u set yaw/pitch and sensi to 1 u will see it. by using yaw/pitch and sensi u can change the amount of degrees one count produce.

u can test ur settings in different r_modes and u will see the resolution dont effect ur sensi settings.
<< Comment #295 @ 05:15 CDT, 20 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #294
in QL u have 1 count = 1 degree, so 360 counts = 360 degree

No.
<< Comment #296 @ 05:19 CDT, 20 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #295
how u can say "no"? every sensiformula is based on this.

an easy proof for this is: http://www.notalent.org/sensitivity/sensitivity.htm

set sensitivity and yaw to 1. so u will see on a 400 "counts per inch" mouse u make 400 "Degrees Per Inch".
Edited by r4pe at 05:43 CDT, 20 August 2010
<< Comment #297 @ 06:32 CDT, 20 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #296
I have no idea what you're talking about, I said 'no' because that sentence is blatantly wrong.
I agree that the 3d engine turns in degrees, not pixels though.

What's the smallest step in degree the engine can draw?



I just tried to measure that somehow, I think there is a limit.

If you set yaw to a small number like 0.000001, pitch 0, sensi to 1, zoom in you will see that with vertical lines there is 'aliasing' (because the screen can only render with finite precision in form of the screen resolution).
Now if you move the mouse, the point where a vertical line gets displaced moves up or down. Strangely that displacement does not move in single pixels but in bigger steps. I tried lowering yaw even more but that did not change this step size.

So I would guess that's because the engine has a step limit....I could be wrong ofc that's only wild guessing


Another weird thing, at very low pitch values the displacement wouldn't move at all with slow movements, only with fast movements...that's like some kind of weird acceleration, only that cl_mouseaccel was set to 0 so where does that come from....
Edited by crea* at 06:32 CDT, 20 August 2010
<< Comment #300 @ 07:09 CDT, 20 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #297
klick the link in my post, set sensi and yaw to 1 and watch the results. u can see counts per inch = degree per inch. thats what i am talking about.

so cpi * m_yaw * sensitivity = smalest step that u can perform in degree

this has nothing to do with the screenresolution.

lowering yaw to 0.0000001 makes no sens at all curz u have to move the mouse 10meter/360° so its useless to think about that.
<< Comment #301 @ 07:27 CDT, 20 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #300
I got your point, I even affirmed that. It's just that the sentence I quoted makes no sense, because it is wrong on its own. The smallest degree step is A LOT smaller then 1 degree of course. That example you repeat over and over makes no sense.

Please try to read my post a little more carefully. The point of lowering yaw was to determine the smallest step in degree you can do. I assume from what I found that there is a limit. that's the real limit of precision, not '1 count = 1 degree' that's nonsense.
<< Comment #302 @ 09:35 CDT, 20 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany r4pe  - Reply to #301
1 count = 1 degree is only for understanding what yaw and sensi do.

the screenresolution means nothing. its says only in wich resolution the picture is drawn from the envirement.

the only thing what is needet for "perfect presicion" is that u have a smooth "crosshair movement". but the crosshair dont move... its the envirement. btw the "picture" behind it that moves. and this dont move in pixel... it moves in degree, given by 1 count = 1 degree * yaw * sensi.

Please try to read my post a little more carefully. The point of lowering yaw was to determine the smallest step in degree you can do. I assume from what I found that there is a limit. that's the real limit of precision, not '1 count = 1 degree' that's nonsense.

this is bullshit. using a sensi wich is bigger than 1m/360 is useless in a game like quake.... so u have to acsept that u never have 100% precision. so it dont care if there is a cap or not. and thats why i ignored ur question.
Edited by r4pe at 09:39 CDT, 20 August 2010
<< Comment #266 @ 10:17 CDT, 7 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (94.6.197.197) 
Has anybody seen any 'hands on' reviews of this mouse yet? It is supposed to be out mid August yet as far as I can tell nobody has even been given a tester to review...
<< Comment #267 @ 23:22 CDT, 7 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao 
http://yfrog.com/mezowieec2j
This will have to do for now =D
Btw it has prediction, my "source" tested with the polling rate and claim its true 1000hz, doesn't fluctuate so i guess the effect of prediction is minimal
<< Comment #268 @ 06:46 CDT, 8 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #267
I guess you are refering to what Danny Ramkvist from Zowie answered in mails.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=126874

The thing is angle snapping (aka prediction/correction) and the polling rate don't really have anything to do with each other.

A low polling rate may looks like path correction when you draw in paint but it doesn't affect where the pointer lands in the end.
125Hz and 1000Hz still represent the same movement of you hand on the screen whereas angle snapping influences where the pointer lands.
<< Comment #269 @ 10:15 CDT, 8 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #268
Yes pretty much the same thing I've heard, so it doesn't changes the way our input(hand movement to in-screen) translate at all? They pretty much did nothing to tracking algorithm at all? But since input is true 1000hz i think the movement is updated more frequently hence should negate the effect of prediction, no?
So educate me on this, I'm quite ignorant about how sensors work
<< Comment #275 @ 03:06 CDT, 9 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #269
The sensor sends the movement data (delta x/y) to the MCU, usually more than 1000/s, and the MCU then sends it to the PC.
So the polling rate doesn't affect the communication between the sensor and the MCU.

Lets say your mouse runs at 125Hz and the current data send to the PC consists of delta x = 40 and delta y = 2.

With 1000Hz this data package would be split in 8 packages which could look like that.

x = 3 | x = 3 | x = 4 | x = 4 | x = 4 | x = 4 | x = 5 | x = 5
y = 0 | y = -1| y = -1 | y = -1| y = 0 | y = 1 | y = 2 | y = 2

In both cases overall x/y =40/2 and your cursor/crosshair will end up at the same position allthough in Paint with 1000Hz the line would look less straight, with a bump down and a bigger bump up, than the line with 125Hz.

Because angle snapping is done on a sensor level the sensor still reads x/y = 40/2 but may send 40/0 to the MCU (actually more like 20 times x/y = 2/0) and you would draw a perfect straight line.

So with angle snapping you would end up 2 pixels below the the point your hand movement represents.


A higher polling rate is smoother and more "precise" and looks less corrected, at least in Paint, but over a longer time period (long in the sense of 8ms) it doesn't affect the position of your crosshair and doesn't affect angle snapping.

PS: I guess I should make pics/graphs. :D
Edited by Bullveyr at 03:18 CDT, 9 August 2010
<< Comment #270 @ 10:32 CDT, 8 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By QUAKEWORLD terrorhead 
Hey guys is it bad if I use sensitivity 0.5 with raw input? Should I make it at least 1?
<< Comment #271 @ 11:01 CDT, 8 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By QW faerie_  - Reply to #270
erm...nooooo? [ wtf is that question ]
<< Comment #272 @ 11:06 CDT, 8 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By QUAKEWORLD terrorhead  - Reply to #271
"We highly recommend setting Windows Pointer Speed to the 6th notch (which is the default value in Windows) and setting your in-game sensitivity to 1 (1 equals no adjustment of your movements by the game)."


http://www.steelseries.com/us/products/mice/xai_laser/faq
<< Comment #273 @ 11:16 CDT, 8 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By QW faerie_  - Reply to #272
Complete and absolute utter bullshit.

Your mouse still sends xxx ticks per inch. it only gets transformed into whatever ticks for the engine depending on sens and yaw/pitch. sens 2 400 dpi = sens 0.5 1600 = 0.25 3200
Every decent game has internal calculations like that.
1%
<< Comment #274 @ 01:39 CDT, 9 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By QUAKEWORLD terrorhead  - Reply to #273
lol@Steelseries. I'll keep playing with 0.5 thx
<< Comment #276 @ 07:04 CDT, 11 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By australia-nsw end0rphine 
Really hope this mouse comes out soon. Nearing mid-August and not a single official preview or feed has appeared.
<< Comment #277 @ 16:16 CDT, 12 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Saint Kitts and Nevis hahahoha  - Reply to #276
its available already in zowie's china official retailer website, popgear.net
and actually there have been a couple of reviews of the mouse, its just that they happened to be in chinese so they werent brought here.
http://www.popgear.net/news/review/20100710_295.htm
google translate it if u want =D
<< Comment #278 @ 19:57 CDT, 12 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By australia-nsw end0rphine  - Reply to #277
Oh wow nice. I asked HeatoN on facebook concerning the release date and he said a worldwide release on the 25th of August :(
I'm gonna check out some chinese suppliers and see whether I can get this earlier :)
<< Comment #279 @ 01:18 CDT, 13 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America phoon 
just to make sure you guys know, 1000hz default on a mouse is not a good idea for anyone who is trying to maintain consistency on any computer (lan)

a computer's motherboard determines whether or not a 1000hz-capable mouse actually gets 1000hz consistently
<< Comment #280 @ 02:36 CDT, 13 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #279
This is true and I am baffled as well as to why any manufacturer wouldn't just copy razer's 125-500-1000hz switch setup...
<< Comment #281 @ 21:09 CDT, 13 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany aGeno 
here is a review


http://www.popgear.net/news/review/20100710_295.htm

and i think it has no prediction i think -.-
<< Comment #282 @ 04:26 CDT, 14 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #281
Thanks man,
i read most of it even thought it didn't make that much sense
seems good thought.
<< Comment #284 @ 07:09 CDT, 14 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (94.10.59.255)  - Reply to #281
Somebody already posted that link... I tried to google translate it but he kept talking about skin heads so I gave up.

Has anybody seen any english reviews?
<< Comment #285 @ 20:58 CDT, 14 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America Coke15  - Reply to #284
LOL I had the same experience with google translation. I can't understand just what the fuck the reviewer is trying to say. For an example:

"But 9HD SWIFT particles smaller than that at the same time lower the hardness of the material, so 9HD SWIFT control better than the touch, but the degree of slip slightly Johnson"

WTF?
3%
<< Comment #286 @ 22:03 CDT, 14 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By australia-nsw end0rphine  - Reply to #285
AHAHAHAHAHAHA imma check this review out
<< Comment #363 @ 09:00 CDT, 29 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Denmark Jalle  - Reply to #285
I lol'd so hard :D.
<< Comment #283 @ 04:47 CDT, 14 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Georgia BRUNS` 
any ideas how much this will retail for roughly? my deathadder is fucked and this looks like a good option!
<< Comment #290 @ 07:55 CDT, 15 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #283
i think 60euros
<< Comment #287 @ 05:36 CDT, 15 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (94.10.59.255) 
Here are some more 'reviews' ive found on the mouse, all in chinese though so good luck with thetranslation... some new pics atleast.

http://www.negitaku.org/news/13153/
http://www.coolpc.com.tw/phpBB2/viewtopic.php...t&sd=a
http://www.techbang.com.tw/posts/3161-cs-worl...ents-below
2%
<< Comment #288 @ 07:38 CDT, 15 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #287
The first link clearly shows the angle snapping.
<< Comment #293 @ 10:48 CDT, 16 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #288
I'll still be getting it for the awsome shape, but getting use to angle snapping, i dont think i can =/
<< Comment #298 @ 06:48 CDT, 20 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #293
really depends, some mice with prediction feel fine. Others, like the kinzu, feel terribad..
<< Comment #299 @ 06:54 CDT, 20 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #298
Kinzu is a HORRIBLE mouse from a technical point of view. pro gaming my ass.

The fact that some pro's still use it imo just proves that you can adapt to almost any setup, even if it is really flawed to begin with.
<< Comment #303 @ 09:42 CDT, 20 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United Kingdom ZeritoN  - Reply to #299
Also interesting to note that the players that do use it are heavy hit-scan
<< Comment #304 @ 09:46 CDT, 20 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #303
yeah it's pretty weird that strenx can LG that sick with it..
<< Comment #306 @ 11:34 CDT, 20 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #304
For an aimer like him it obviously isn't that hard to get used to some positive acceleration. I think it is weird he doesn't hit the malfunction speed because it is pretty low with the kinzu, around 2m/s. Maybe he uses accel now. Dahang does.
<< Comment #289 @ 07:53 CDT, 15 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma 
ugh, release it already.
<< Comment #291 @ 07:56 CDT, 15 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #289
its coming out on the 25th of Aug
<< Comment #292 @ 08:14 CDT, 15 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.10.123.112) 
Hi every1 I have also tried lots of gaming mice in last 3 years.
(Mx518/Ie3.0/Lachesis/Deathadder/Salmosa/Kinzu/Xai/Sindewinder X3/Copperhead/G9/G9x/ Pyra) LOL :D
I tried so many mousepads too. (Destructor/Mantis/Qck heavy/5L)

What I have found Optical is > Laser.
Lightweight rubber cord> braided cable.

The only 2 Laser mice I found were great which is copperhead and Lachesis. My aim goes where I want to aim. Optical always better. I am not going to explain why I didn't like other mice.

Right now I am using Logitech Optical M100 @500hz which is not gaming mouse but I can aim better on it :)) Tracks ok but have lots of control.

Since I was finding small, optical, lightweight, 500hz(stable) with nice grip and that has light prediction.
Since EC2 looks nice I might give a try when it will release so does many of us here!
<< Comment #305 @ 10:07 CDT, 20 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma 
EC2 is the biggest model?
<< Comment #308 @ 06:30 CDT, 22 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #305
Size Comparisons
Edited by GreenMeanie at 06:31 CDT, 22 August 2010
3%
<< Comment #309 @ 09:34 CDT, 22 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #308
thx
<< Comment #313 @ 04:44 CDT, 24 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United Kingdom Zensuji  - Reply to #308
Ec2 must be tiny if those are the ec1. Was thinking about getting the ec2 as I wanted something a touch smaller then the 3.0 but looks like the ec1 is a bout right for me. (big hands)
<< Comment #307 @ 06:25 CDT, 22 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United Kingdom Zensuji 
Nah ec2 is smallest. Ec1 is about DA size
<< Comment #310 @ 23:20 CDT, 22 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Sweden Snooc 
Any reviews in english for this yet?
<< Comment #311 @ 08:23 CDT, 23 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Unset azxx 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4AltnrR9aU
<< Comment #312 @ 04:18 CDT, 24 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Belgium Trance 
wtf is wrong with Zowie website?!
<< Comment #314 @ 17:54 CDT, 25 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France winz 
so, did anyone get one already ?
<< Comment #315 @ 18:01 CDT, 25 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria - Wien ffx 
My deathadder mousewheele broke, so I'm looking forward to a ec2 review. Fits perfect to my needs. Smaller and lighter than the deathadder (better for lg :P), sidebuttons and a decent shape!
Edited by ffx at 18:02 CDT, 25 August 2010
<< Comment #316 @ 18:01 CDT, 25 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France winz  - Reply to #315
don't you mean EC2 ?
<< Comment #318 @ 18:02 CDT, 25 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria - Wien ffx  - Reply to #316
Thx, fixed it :P
<< Comment #317 @ 18:01 CDT, 25 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America Coke15 
"Our new EC series releasing mid august!"

Now on the 25th we have no EC series available for purchase and their website doesn't even work. Zowie is definitely out to impress.
<< Comment #322 @ 02:42 CDT, 26 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #317
Caseking, a german shop and Zowies European distributor claims to have them in stock.

http://www.caseking.de
Edited by Bullveyr at 02:42 CDT, 26 August 2010
<< Comment #319 @ 20:13 CDT, 25 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By australia-nsw end0rphine 
It seems from recent press release, Zowie is focusing on the asian market... wtf?
<< Comment #320 @ 21:16 CDT, 25 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France winz  - Reply to #319
What press release are you talking about ? Their website is down for days :|
1%
<< Comment #321 @ 00:59 CDT, 26 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By australia-nsw end0rphine  - Reply to #320
Oh I meant the latest sourced from google and other search engines all turn up news and advertisements from zowie towards the asian market.
<< Comment #323 @ 13:32 CDT, 26 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (94.5.202.77) 
I 'predict' a riot :/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NiOiMNDQrQ
<< Comment #324 @ 15:18 CDT, 26 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America JustBeMadness  - Reply to #323
aww that sucks
<< Comment #325 @ 15:23 CDT, 26 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #323
loel

'mx518 in a different body'
<< Comment #326 @ 23:02 CDT, 26 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By australia-nsw end0rphine  - Reply to #323
Straightest lines I have ever seen...
<< Comment #327 @ 02:17 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #323
and all hope was lost.
<< Comment #328 @ 03:48 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France winz  - Reply to #327
Why do you say that? What's wrong with it?
<< Comment #330 @ 05:03 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #328
The vid shows very heavy 'prediction', or 'angle snapping'. It could possibly be fixed later but I would say the chances are slim for reasons bullveyr stated and considering the fact if they couldn't make the mouse prediction-less from the start they probably can't do it ever.
<< Comment #331 @ 05:13 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France winz  - Reply to #330
Oh yea, read the first comments again. Altho I don't realise to what extend it could be disturbing. A lot of people seems to complain about it without saying why exactly.
<< Comment #329 @ 04:05 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #323
Sometimes it sucks to be right from the beginning, allthough angle snapping isn't a really big problem for me.
<< Comment #332 @ 06:05 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #329
=/ =/ =/ =/ =/ =/ =/ =/ =/
WTF?!!!!!!! ALL HOPE WAS LOST!
<< Comment #333 @ 06:35 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #332
I feel strangely mocked....=[ =/ =0 =)(=(/)==)=)(=)(
<< Comment #334 @ 06:41 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #333
You got it wrongly, i'm dissapointed as hell...
Man we should start a thread about our ideal mouse, gather data and ask zowie to make us what we want, not what they think we want!
<< Comment #335 @ 12:43 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (76.238.247.158) 
check out this mouse, look familiar?
http://www.imouse.cc/ch/ProductView.asp?ID=53
<< Comment #336 @ 12:56 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #335
Ya Razer posted it on their facebook ages ago.
I LOL'd then I thought meh I don't actually care I hate razer.
<< Comment #337 @ 13:59 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Japan Anonymous (219.98.10.117) 
Hello from japan
Remember the guy who did those "speed tests"? He bought both the EC1/EC2 and did a quick short review, took it apart and confirmed it uses the Avago ADNS-3060 sensor.
He also found out an annoying issue with the mouse wheel where in some cases the wheel input would not be recognized.
If he were to turn the wheel "up-up-down-down" (1 click at a time), the mouse whould not recognize the first "down" and would result in a input of "up-up-down". This happend with both his EC1 and EC2, while another guy reported random wheel input drops with his EC2.
It could be an firmware bug or just an "bad batch" from the factory, but he did some tests and also said it could be the optical wheel sensor being out of alignment (btw the Razer Boomslang 2007 CE uses the same optical wheel mechanism). Anyway he said he'd wait until the problem was sorted out.

Overall he said he liked how the mouse was shaped (like the deathadder), enjoyed that the EC1/EC2 uses an optical wheel sensor (he uses the wheel a lot), was slightly disapointed it was using an outdated Avago 3060 sensor (but angle snapping isnt a large problem for him and he could live with that) , but was hugely disapointed with the mousewheel issue.
<< Comment #338 @ 15:08 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #337
Pics of the internals please ;)

I heard of the wheel problem from 2-3 other people whos overall opninion is pretty much the same.

The A3060 (at 2000 CPI they will load the A308ß srom I guess) might be outdated but it's low-sense performance is still very good.
<< Comment #339 @ 18:22 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France winz  - Reply to #338
You seem to know pretty much on the subject so I have a question for you since I didn't find any decent answer on the forum.

How good is the sensor of the Salmosa? I have an Abyssus atm which is.. utterly shit, I play with a fairly low sens and it keeps losing track when I do fast movements. It's very annoying.
I was considering getting the EC2 but since there are issues with the first versions (assuming they will correct that in the future) I was looking at other mice.

Any advice? Thanks in advance.
<< Comment #347 @ 03:32 CDT, 28 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Greece chickenfluGR  - Reply to #339
my abyssus gives me 1:1 tracking EVERY time, i also get no jitter on zowie G-RF ( but lots of random jitter in other mousepads of my collection like puretrak talent sharkoon 1337 XL everglide titan etc )
but no sign of negative acceleration, i move my slowly 40cm to the left then 40cm to the right QUICKLY and i get a perfect 360 everytime


Do you use bad settings maybe ? like 1800dpi while playing a w32 input game ( instead of direct input or raw input ) and low fps ?

Lift of distance is kinda high on zowie g-rf but i can live with that
<< Comment #352 @ 07:06 CDT, 28 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France winz  - Reply to #347
Yes I'm using 1800dpi but I've tried at 450 and it's the same problem so I did set it back to 1800.

It might be relative to the pad as some people said in other threads the abyssus jitters and loses track a lot on cloth pad. It doesn't jitter on my QcK but it indeed loses track when doing very fast movements.
Edited by *aAa*winz at 11:03 CDT, 28 August 2010
<< Comment #361 @ 06:42 CDT, 29 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By QW tbone  - Reply to #352
Yeah doesn't work very well on QcK unfortunately, I bought a goliathus speed and the tracking is perfect, but on my 2 qck pads it's quite horrible.
<< Comment #345 @ 03:11 CDT, 28 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Lithuania GUArd  - Reply to #338
so mouse have problems bugs?
What sensor it is? It will work better then ie3/wmo sensor?
Fuck , I wanted to order it, but they fucked up them self... realy are they dumb to release broken mouses..
<< Comment #346 @ 03:11 CDT, 28 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Lithuania GUArd  - Reply to #338
so mouse have problems bugs?
What sensor it is? It will work better then ie3/wmo sensor?
Fuck , I wanted to order it, but they fucked up them self... realy are they dumb to release broken mouses..
<< Comment #348 @ 03:49 CDT, 28 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #338
I have the pics, you still want them? =P
<< Comment #350 @ 06:23 CDT, 28 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #348
sure
<< Comment #353 @ 11:59 CDT, 28 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Japan Anonymous (219.98.10.117)  - Reply to #338
he said he didnt take any pics this time, sry bout that.

and an update on the "wheel issue" of his EC2. He said he seems to have "fixed" the problem by desoldering the IR detector of the optical wheel sensor and replacing it with one from another mouse ( he used one from an Intellimouse explorer). So he assumes its just a bad batch from the factory and once it's sorted out all should be good ( but then again where's the quality control?).
<< Comment #354 @ 12:55 CDT, 28 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #353
no problem

It's never good if the first batch has such a general problem.

I will probably wait for a statment from Zowie befor I'll get a EC2.
<< Comment #485 @ 14:09 CDT, 14 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 ischju  - Reply to #337
mousehweel bug is no problem in ql therefore i would not care :D
<< Comment #340 @ 20:46 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.3.147.136) 
o well you can try Salmosa it has prediction and high lift off distance.
I have it and I dont like it. Annoying shape and way too light for me (52 Grams).

I like to have prediction in my mouse and low weight about 80 grams
Soz I got roccat kova its nice small driverless but 500hz optical and has prediction. Soz try Kova or their new Pyra.

Pyra is small 400 to 1600 dpi and has no prediction! 1000hz per second but you cannot make it 500hz or 125hz and get wired version tho.

If you dont mind Optical or Laser there is Sidewinder X3 which is also a good mouse.

Dont buy Kinzu its shit mouse.

GL with your future purchases.

Toop
<< Comment #341 @ 20:56 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France winz  - Reply to #340
Well, I wouldn't mind having a laser mouse if it didn't keep losing track badly (tried only abyssus/xai tho). From what I've heard, it's technically worse than optical and my experiences proved it right.

About the kinzu: I tried it, and its sensor is pretty damn shit with its high hard coded accel, I definitely can't play with this.

When you say "prediction" you mean the accel right ?
So the Salmosa has accel in the sensor too ?
What is "high lift off distance" exactly ?

I'm sorry I'm very uninformed on the matter.

From what we can find here and there, pretty much all mice have huge flaws in their sensor. :| It becomes much harder to make a decision and buy a mouse after reading such thread.

Thanks for the answers and advices.
Edited by *aAa*winz at 20:59 CDT, 27 August 2010
<< Comment #342 @ 22:28 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America Coke15  - Reply to #341
When you say "prediction" you mean the accel right ?

It means that the sensor "helps" you draw straight lines. I don't care what anyone says but when a sensor makes decisions for YOUR movement you are losing precision.

The Kinzu has the heaviest prediction I have ever used, draw small circles and they come out almost square, its fucking horrible. the MX518 and the DC firmwared deathadder has prediction but to a much smaller degree which makes it usable IMO.

So the Salmosa has accel in the sensor too ?

No, the 3G sensor found in the salmosa and the older deathadder does not have any problems with positive acceleration like that piece of shit kinzu.


What is "high lift off distance" exactly ?

High lift off distance means exactly what you would think it would mean. If you lift and reposition your mouse the salmosa will keep tracking the surface while it is lifted in the air. This is a bad thing, a lower lift off distance is preferred to minimize unwanted movement while lifting and repositioning.
Edited by Auld at 22:32 CDT, 27 August 2010
3%
<< Comment #343 @ 22:52 CDT, 27 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France winz  - Reply to #342
Thanks for the answers, it's so much clearer now.

I agree an high lift off distance is a big problem, it's exactly why I can't use a WMO, it tends to have that pretty badly on my new QcK heavy, making it impossible to use since I'm a low sens player and have to make a lot of repositioning.

"the salmosa will keep tracking the surface while it is lifted in the air."

Is it necessarily because of mouse ? I used to play with a diamondback on an old QcK heavy, it was so old it was sticky and became pretty much unusable, so I ordered another pad (razer goliathus control) and on that pad my diamondback was still tracking even though it was lifted fairly high, something that was never the case with the QcK.
I'm just saying from my experience it seems to be relative to the pad to some point.
Edited by *aAa*winz at 22:58 CDT, 27 August 2010
<< Comment #349 @ 04:15 CDT, 28 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #343
because it is relative to the pad.

nevertheless, the wmo has a very low lift off distance so I don't know what you're talking about..

e: and you can optimize lift off distance with sticking new teflon feet over plastic or old teflon ones.
Edited by vib at 04:16 CDT, 28 August 2010
<< Comment #351 @ 06:59 CDT, 28 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France winz  - Reply to #349
"If you lift and reposition your mouse the salmosa will keep tracking the surface while it is lifted in the air."
"well you can try Salmosa it has prediction and high lift off distance."

That's why I was asking.

About the WMO: it really keeps tracking even when the mouse is not in contact with the QcK heavy but it seems fine on my other mousepad (Aqua3 XXL) for some reason.
Edited by *aAa*winz at 11:02 CDT, 28 August 2010
<< Comment #355 @ 13:58 CDT, 28 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #351
have you stacked your teflon feet over the original ones? from which brand do your mouse feet come?

I have stacked my teflon feet over the original ones and the lift off distance is extremely low, it is nearly impossible to track with it in the air.
<< Comment #356 @ 14:07 CDT, 28 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France winz  - Reply to #355
These are mine: http://www.steelseries.com/int/products/acces...nformation
<< Comment #357 @ 14:49 CDT, 28 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #356
so what, did you remove the original and than apply the new ones or stack the new ones over the old ones?
<< Comment #358 @ 17:12 CDT, 28 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France winz  - Reply to #357
Didn't remove the old ones.
<< Comment #360 @ 06:25 CDT, 29 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #358
weird, as already told I have a very low lift off distance. I can't pick up the mouse that little for it to still track.
<< Comment #344 @ 02:18 CDT, 28 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America Gunuko12 
http://www.zowiegear.dk/

Link to where to buy the mouse.
<< Comment #359 @ 06:03 CDT, 29 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma 
Ordered the EC1 black, will post a mini review in a few days.
<< Comment #368 @ 02:11 CDT, 30 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (178.29.77.115)  - Reply to #359
Also orderd mine a few days ago, should be here today! Really have high expectations on it since my friends who tried it out said it was by far the best mouse they have ever used., will also try to make a very short first impression review here!

//Drac
<< Comment #362 @ 08:28 CDT, 29 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (95.49.61.244) 
Ok... so which mouse do not have ''prediction'' etc.... ??!!
<< Comment #364 @ 13:58 CDT, 29 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #362
WMO, IMO, IME
<< Comment #369 @ 04:20 CDT, 30 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #364
+Death Adder, but I don't like the awkward shape and weight.
<< Comment #372 @ 11:26 CDT, 30 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #369
DA has prediction, but depending on the firmware you can nearly disable it, though it still won't behave as a native sensor without prediction.
<< Comment #375 @ 00:53 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #372
yeah I've installed those drivers, didn't notice much difference tbh.
<< Comment #379 @ 08:28 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #375
drivers/=/firmware
<< Comment #382 @ 11:44 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #379
I am oh so sorry, must be hard understanding people being so anal.
<< Comment #383 @ 12:05 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #382
was just a hint for you, as you might have installed the newest drivers, but not the firmware.
<< Comment #385 @ 13:09 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #383
ah, sorry. gotten too used to everyone on ESR being sarcastic i guess. but yeah i did get the firmware.
<< Comment #387 @ 14:12 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #385
No problem : ) but there definitely should be a big difference between your old firmware though.
<< Comment #389 @ 14:13 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #387
like, i noticed it was a bit different. Far from revolutionary or would affect gaming or anything tho. Wouldn't care if I somehow had to go back, let's put it that way.
<< Comment #365 @ 17:46 CDT, 29 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany Anonymous (80.137.105.7) 
so xai is still the best mouse of da world ?!?!?! O_o

:b
<< Comment #366 @ 18:07 CDT, 29 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #365
Xai was never the best mouse.
<< Comment #367 @ 18:14 CDT, 29 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France winz  - Reply to #366
I'll add that it's a shit one since it's a laser mouse.
<< Comment #370 @ 04:21 CDT, 30 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #365
randomly spazzing out cuz of dust is not something u would find in the worlds best mouse : (
<< Comment #371 @ 11:00 CDT, 30 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (95.49.60.224) 
Razer Deathadder Respawn ? would it be a good choice ?

Does it have prediction/acceleration ?
<< Comment #373 @ 11:39 CDT, 30 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #371
Does it have prediction/acceleration ?

"DA has prediction, but depending on the firmware you can nearly disable it, though it still won't behave as a native sensor without prediction."

Razer Deathadder Respawn ? would it be a good choice ?

No, the old one with the 3G sensor is much better. The Respawn one has the 3.5G sensor which jitters on a lot of mousepads. If you want a DA, go for the old one.
<< Comment #406 @ 06:40 CDT, 3 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #373
bullshit
<< Comment #409 @ 14:07 CDT, 3 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #406
what is bullshit about the truth? the 3.5 version might still be a good mouse, but pretty much everyone agress that the old one was better??!
<< Comment #411 @ 14:32 CDT, 3 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #409
stop this bullshittin already please
<< Comment #412 @ 16:35 CDT, 3 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #411
dude I have no idea whether you are a troll or not, but I think you are, so get the fuck out of my internet.
<< Comment #407 @ 07:31 CDT, 3 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.0.129.145)  - Reply to #373
cant get old DA :<
Looks like I have to get EC2
<< Comment #410 @ 14:10 CDT, 3 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #407
yeah EC2 seems to be a really decent choice, prediction doesn't bother me personally that much ( :
<< Comment #374 @ 14:48 CDT, 30 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland nonamed 
Any comments on EC1/EC2 ? Does anyone get it already ?
<< Comment #376 @ 00:53 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #374
getting it today or tomorrow
<< Comment #377 @ 05:38 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland nonamed 
from yesterday u can get EC1/EC2 in Poland (via official retailer of Zowie prod.) , what did I found price is lower than Zowie IO 1.1... O_o
<< Comment #378 @ 06:41 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (178.28.177.214) 
Got it this morning! First impression is so good! Normally i have a very hard time adjusting to a new mouse but i have to test all new ones! And this is actually the first one that ive felt better with even from the first try! Played some QL & Cod4 and i must say my aiming is better then before already! I use a Intelli 3.0 atm and didnt think that i would ever change from it but i think ive just found the replacement. Also i do not notice any correction or anything yet atleast! Will get back with more feedback after testing!



/Drac
<< Comment #380 @ 09:18 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By australia-nsw end0rphine  - Reply to #378
Which do you have? EC1 or EC2? Did you get it from the Denmark retailer?
<< Comment #381 @ 09:38 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.3.147.136) 
Aha Nice Drac.
I am also trying to get EC2 in UK but no online retailer sells it.
Show some pictures etc size comparison.
GL and happy gaming. :>

Toop
<< Comment #384 @ 12:12 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (178.28.219.137)  - Reply to #381
I got the EC1 Black, orderd it http://www.zowiegear.dk/ a few weeks ago and finally got it! Will try to have some pictures by later to night or tomorrow, and since i have quite a collection of mices here i think it would be interesting for people to se it in comparison just like you said :).

Oh and btw, im even more sold on it now! Just LOVE IT.


//Drac
<< Comment #388 @ 14:12 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #384
mine coming tomorrow :D:D:D
<< Comment #390 @ 22:14 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By australia-nsw end0rphine  - Reply to #384
Zowiegear.dk haven't replied to my emails as of late :( I'm worried about my order...
<< Comment #394 @ 04:42 CDT, 1 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #390
prolly cuz they're getting a million emails a day lately
<< Comment #386 @ 13:16 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland nonamed 
Please give us some info about mentioned prediction/acceleration & angle snapping... There were some issues with mouse wheel either... :/
<< Comment #391 @ 22:34 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America destrukt 
i have this mouse, i love it
<< Comment #393 @ 04:41 CDT, 1 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #391
dkt approves, it's a conspiracy.

is ur mwheel bugged?
Edited by koOma at 05:01 CDT, 1 September 2010
<< Comment #395 @ 11:07 CDT, 1 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America destrukt  - Reply to #393
no
<< Comment #396 @ 12:41 CDT, 1 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #395
\o/
<< Comment #397 @ 13:16 CDT, 1 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.200.197.119)  - Reply to #395
So youa are sayin if u scroll one step forward and then one step backwards your mouse registers the step backwards?
You would actually be the first guy that doesnt have this bug.
<< Comment #398 @ 19:28 CDT, 1 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (178.31.169.110)  - Reply to #397
I dont have it eighter. Maybe a problem with some early modells? (EC1 Black)
<< Comment #401 @ 16:58 CDT, 2 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America Anonymous (24.23.59.182)  - Reply to #393
he also loved the g9x when it came out...and then the razer mamba. we both know how those worked out
<< Comment #402 @ 21:28 CDT, 2 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America destrukt  - Reply to #401
actually i was under contract for Razer when i did the mamba testimonial. And to be honest, it is THE best wireless gaming mouse on the market.

the g9x is a great mouse, i've always thought that. in fact i used it at dreamhack and i recently used it until i got this mouse.

afaik, k1llsen uses g9x. he just won GamesCom.
Edited by destrukt at 21:28 CDT, 2 September 2010
<< Comment #399 @ 09:41 CDT, 2 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America JustBeMadness  - Reply to #391
hey dkt, can you tell us what you think of the mouse? a quick review would be great. ec1 or 2? black or white? this mouse looks like it could be really good. i think the ec2, at the size about the same as a wmo, is the smallest ergonomic mouse
<< Comment #403 @ 21:30 CDT, 2 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America destrukt  - Reply to #399
The mouse feels great. No jitter, chop, or bugginess with the eye. Its extremely smooth...

I use the ec2, its smaller than the ec1, i think its better, but that is just my opinion. if you want a deathadder sized mouse, the ec1 is for you.

I dont know how else to describe it, except it just works and the shape feels great. Its what you would EXPECT from a gaming mouse.
<< Comment #404 @ 00:29 CDT, 3 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By australia-nsw end0rphine  - Reply to #403
How big is your hand? (tip to bottom palm). These two sizes are honestly driving me crazy and makes me dread the arrival of my EC1.
<< Comment #405 @ 06:21 CDT, 3 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America JustBeMadness  - Reply to #403
thanks so much, man. that's my green light to order

i assume you'll be using it at comiccon? i'll be there to watch the action. gl :)
<< Comment #392 @ 23:11 CDT, 31 August 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Australia Python 
Create a new thread for reviews of it? pics etc?
<< Comment #400 @ 16:42 CDT, 2 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.3.147.136) 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEWegja6Yfg&translated=1

unboxing.
<< Comment #408 @ 09:32 CDT, 3 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany Anonymous (80.137.100.83) 
aha and what about the mousewheel bug now ? not every ec mouse has it ?
<< Comment #413 @ 16:51 CDT, 3 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 ischju  - Reply to #408
mousewheelbug can be fixed with this here:

set bind MWHEELDOWN "vstr shaft"
bind MWHEELUP "vstr kroketten"

set shaft "weapon 6; cg_drawgun 2;cg_crosshairsize 33;cg_drawcrosshair 7; cg_gunZ -8; cg_gunY 3; cg_gunX -10; vstr lgglreset; cg_crosshairhitstyle 0; cl_timenudge 0"

set kroketten "weapon 4; cg_drawgun 0; cg_crosshairsize 50; cg_drawcrosshair 2; cg_gunZ 0; cg_gunY 0; cg_gunX 0; vstr lgglreset; cg_crosshairhitstyle 0; cl_timenudge 0"

set lglock "vstr lgglreset; bind MWHEELDOWN vstr shaft"
set gllock "vstr lgglreset; bind MWHEELUP vstr kroketten"
set lgglreset "bind MWHEELDOWN vstr lglock; bind MWHEELUP vstr gllock"

thx to "crack".
<< Comment #414 @ 19:31 CDT, 3 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America Anonymous (24.23.59.182) 
i'm interested in this mouse but the dpi levels are retarded

500/1000/2000

u shitting me?
<< Comment #415 @ 08:58 CDT, 5 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland Anonymous (83.29.44.53)  - Reply to #414
serious problem!
<< Comment #416 @ 07:35 CDT, 6 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma 
Got the mine today, first impression is really good.

Build quality seems very solid, shape is like a mix between a 3.0 and DA and the weight is good (could be like 10g lighter but I'm def. not complaining. To me the DA felt awkward lifting, as if the weight distribution was off, this is not the case on the EC1.

No mwheel issues, sensor feels really nice (and I'm used to firmware updated DA) \o/.

If nothing changes this is the best mouse I've ever tried. FINALLY!
<< Comment #417 @ 11:25 CDT, 6 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.0.129.145)  - Reply to #416
Nice 1 I am trying to get EC2 in UK but cant find it anywhere.
Show some pics comparison predictions etc would be nice.
Hope you get stable 1000hz polling rate show some pics of mouserate.exe too.
Cheers
<< Comment #418 @ 13:47 CDT, 6 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #417
has prediction but it's way less of an issue than I thought. The paint pics already posted is pretty much what u get.

haven't bothered testing the polling rate as it feels very smooth and stable.
<< Comment #419 @ 19:38 CDT, 6 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Unset beta_male 
got my ec1 today. its about the same size as the xai or 1.1 but a bit taller and lighter than the xai it feels really nice and using mouse rate.exe im getting stable 1000hz. The only issue so far is i dont really like the stock dpi settings but apart from that its a great mouse.
<< Comment #420 @ 21:49 CDT, 6 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America Anonymous (24.23.59.182)  - Reply to #419
you can only choose between 500 1000 and 2000 right? i don't understand why they had to put these dpi levels in this. terrible idea.
<< Comment #423 @ 07:45 CDT, 7 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Sweden Anonymous (85.226.150.140)  - Reply to #420
That is because they wanted to have as low liftoff distance as possible, and the only way to do that was thoose dpi settings.


Also another cool think ive found out when i mailed Zowie was that you can change the USB hz too 500 if you wish withouth any programs.

Just hold in the front thumb-button when its unplugged, plug it in while still holding the button in untill the scroll lights up, and viola! You have 500hz wich i prefer alittle more!


Been using this mouse for 1week soon and this is by FAR the best mouse ever, hope you all will have a chance to get one!.


//Drac
4%
<< Comment #425 @ 09:02 CDT, 7 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #423
lol @ not documenting that
<< Comment #431 @ 14:46 CDT, 7 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Norway Erk  - Reply to #423
Tnx for the info. The 1000hz was only thing stopping me from getting an EC2 as 1000hz has a tendency to make Q3 skip mouse button inputs. Been waiting a long time for an angled mouse that isn't huge.
<< Comment #433 @ 19:28 CDT, 7 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France winz  - Reply to #431
angled mouse? you mean that has prediction? ever heard of Diamondback 3G and Salmosa ?
<< Comment #435 @ 10:31 CDT, 8 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Norway Erk  - Reply to #433
No I have never heard of a salmosa or diamondback that has a shape where the top is in an angle that is lower on the right side than the left side. Thanks for the tip though, I will definitely look for those mice the next time I want to buy a non-symmetrical mouse!!!!
Edited by Erk at 10:31 CDT, 8 September 2010
<< Comment #432 @ 16:26 CDT, 7 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.200.46.127)  - Reply to #423
Btw u can switch back to 100Hz by holding the rear thumb-button instead.

Very cool feature, a shame they dont advertise it...
<< Comment #421 @ 02:01 CDT, 7 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By quake3-keel jWorm 
Where can you purchase one in the U.S.?
<< Comment #422 @ 03:39 CDT, 7 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland nonamed 
Today I got both EC1 & EC2 , if you would like to see some pics let me know ...
<< Comment #424 @ 08:32 CDT, 7 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #422
yessss
<< Comment #430 @ 11:45 CDT, 7 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #422
no, I don't want to see pictures I just like the fact knowing you have a Zowie EC1 and 2.
<< Comment #426 @ 09:53 CDT, 7 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Half-Life Shaddap 
Dunno what to buy, it's this or the Xai :S
<< Comment #428 @ 10:02 CDT, 7 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #426
I've had both, would def. go for the EC1.
<< Comment #427 @ 09:58 CDT, 7 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By sleepy lemming#13 
To add my voice to the choir:

I have the EC2 (white) and love it despite the fact that I have a bugged mouse wheel. I emailed ZOWIE about this, but have not received an answer yet. Lucky me, I don't use MWHEELDOWN ingame, so I don't have a problem with this.

For those who do however, I woud advise to wait until we hear from ZOWIE whats going on. Since some here have the mouse with a good wheel I'd assume that this may be a bad charge. But who wants to buy one of those...
<< Comment #434 @ 09:28 CDT, 8 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Japan Anonymous (219.98.211.188)  - Reply to #427
I dont have the pics, but as I posted on #353 a guy took his flawed EC1 & fixed EC2 and used an oscilloscope to check the readings from the wheel sensor. According to him he found that, at least with his mice, the problems seemed to come from a flaw with either the sensor position or the sensor itself.

Why? before i go on, a good reference on how optical rotary encoders like the one used on the EC1/2's wheel sensor work
http://www.fpga4fun.com/QuadratureDecoder.html

as you can see in the graph the electrical signals are supposed to be out of phase, thats how the encoder knows which way the wheel is turned. But with his flawed EC1 and pre-fixed EC2, he found that when the MWHEELDOWN was not recognized ( the first MWHEELDOWN input after a MWHEELUP) the signal was not out of phase enough resulting in the "bug" (and the signal was not stable).

btw. he said he loves his fixed EC2 (the wheel problem is annoying if you use it in games or you switch browser tabs with your wheel), and listening to all the positive notes I'm looking forward on buying one, but I'll wait till any insight from ZOWIE especially since the distributor in my country is ****.
2%
<< Comment #436 @ 11:14 CDT, 8 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #434
can't be the sensor cuz my mwheel is fine.
<< Comment #429 @ 10:29 CDT, 7 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Half-Life Shaddap 
Some comparison photos.

http://www.pgl.ro/forum/threads/72928-Zowie-E...?p=1577454
<< Comment #437 @ 11:38 CDT, 8 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Half-Life Shaddap 
http://www.techpowerup.com/126874/ZOWIE_Annou..._Mice.html
Zowie on mouse prediction. Response to an email.

The question regarding mouse correction or prediction is very interesting, as there is no easy explanation. To give you the honest truth, it's not about whether or not a mouse has prediction. It's about the level of prediction it has, as all mice have some extent of prediction.

Most gamers today consider the mouse correction / prediction as a deed of pure evil which forces your mouse to make straight lines, even if you don't want to. Our mice does not force you to do anything, so in terms of the general understanding of the gaming community, our mice does not have any mouse correction. Your movement is your own.

However, to continue the story, if there was no prediction at all in a mouse, you would only get lines that look like this:



Please note that this is even if you drag your mouse completely straight.

Why is this? Well, take a look at the surface of your mousepad. It doesn't matter if it's plastic, cloth or something else, but what you are looking at will most likely be textured. When running your fingers across your mousepad, you can feel that it is uneven.

To get a stable experience when using a mouse, the sensor should only track on the even points of the surface, but as this is somewhat impossible, the sensor uses prediction to even out the gap in-between fibers and particles, so your experience is stable. We believe that this is the only thing prediction should be used for, and have therefore limited the prediction to be as low as possible. The term "prediction or not" was born with some manufacturers overdoing the prediction.

To give you a better understanding, I have created these images for you:
With a 125 Hz mouse, the tracking will look as in this image, with the red arrows being prediction:

As you can see from this image, the gap the sensor needs to predict to go from point A to B is very high.
There are sensors which naturally consider the prediction to be as low as possible, but most of them have other problems. There are other ways to achieve a minimum prediction. We use the Avago 3060 sensor because it is the most stable sensor available. The Avago 3060 is an older sensor, yet it still delivers the best overall performance during extensive use, making it the optimal sensor for a competitive gaming mouse. The Avago 3060 would normally be considered to have prediction, but our 1000 Hz evens out the prediction and makes the gap it needs to predict much smaller.

Look at this picture:



As you can see in this picture, the EC-mice updates 6 times faster than a normal 125 Hz mouse.

So the final answer to the question is:
Yes, the EC-mice do have prediction, but only the minimum level required in order to have a functional mouse. In terms of how gamers currently interprets the term "prediction". then the EC-series would not be considered to have prediction.

I hope our honesty will be appreciated in the community. Trying out the mice will truly show that we have taken all of these things into consideration, and that our mice allows for free movement.

Best regards,

Danny Ramkvist
Chief Marketing Officer
Edited by Kirsebaer at 11:42 CDT, 8 September 2010
1%
<< Comment #438 @ 02:02 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #437
As I allready explained in this thread this is wrong.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1933667#pid1933667
<< Comment #439 @ 05:38 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #438
ofc its wrong cos its just some bullshit for semi smart gamers

the whole mouse is wrong actually

rebranded deathadder with mx518 sensor = fucking joke
<< Comment #441 @ 09:32 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Romania Anonymous (193.231.196.6)  - Reply to #439
It doesn't have the MX518's sensor and it doesn't have exactly the DA's shape, it's more like Intelli 3.0.
Stop complaining about things you don't have. Buy one, then state your opinion.
You can put it on 500 hz polling rate if 1000 doesn't suite you.
And actually it's a very good mouse, slight prediction, otherwise it's pretty much perfect.
<< Comment #442 @ 10:21 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #441
u re either blind or just fuckign retarded

3.0 is completely different

this crap mouse = deathadder

i bet its made in the same chinese factory
<< Comment #458 @ 17:53 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Sweden Snooc  - Reply to #442
Everything is made in china.
<< Comment #528 @ 05:36 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #439
it's so much better than the DA.
<< Comment #531 @ 05:44 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #528
its worse actually lol
<< Comment #533 @ 05:49 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #531
No.
<< Comment #534 @ 06:09 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #533
u bought a shitter rebranded deathadder just face it, be a man
<< Comment #537 @ 09:29 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #534
u honestly dont like it? DA sux balls compared to the EC1 imo.
<< Comment #538 @ 10:26 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #537
yes i honestly dislike it because it has the same fucked up shape as deathadder (i recon zowie must have bought it from razer) but uglier

so why bother with rebranded deathadder with the worse sensor while u can get a regular one with no prediction?
<< Comment #542 @ 14:09 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #538
lol.
<< Comment #440 @ 09:32 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.8.234.189) 
Mx518 does not have/give constant 1000hz or even 500hz performance. Deathadder is too big for some gamers and heavier than Mx518. Mx518 has huge lift off distance and awkword shape.
EC2 is sure lighter mouse but not as light as Salmosa or Abyssus. As long as it performs good (I dont have mouse but willing to buy 1) there wont be problem for any games who likes light and small mice.
Besides optical will always perform better than Laser (Xai/G9x etc)
<< Comment #443 @ 10:23 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #440
actually g9x outperforms much all the other mice on the market including all the best opticals but whatever
<< Comment #445 @ 11:11 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Romania Anonymous (193.231.196.6)  - Reply to #443
Again talking from your dreams?
Buy a mouse, then speak of it. Don't talk from others reviews, pictures. Theres's a long way from the theory to the real thing. I saw a clip with the EC1 that supposed to show us the lift-off distance, and it was huge. But again, you couldn't see the actual mouse, had his hand placed over it all the time. Guess what? The lift-off on a Qpad Heaton is non existing. If you put a cd under it, stops tracking. On a Qpad UC needs 2 cd's. So much for trusting a video review...
And it doesn't matter where it's made, if the quality is good. Alot of things are done in China, but it doesn't mean all their quality is poor.
G9X has the same sensor found in Xai, Qpad 5K, G500, Mionix Naos, Ozone Smog, Speedlink Kudos,Gigabyte GM-M8000X. Of course, the proper implementation counts. Yes, the specifications are awesome, but it tracks badly on some pads where optical do just fine.
And when you pay 80$ for a G9X, and the coating from the bigger grip starts peeling off after 1 month, you're starting to question yourself about the quality of their products.
I have had about 90% of the gaming mouses you can ever think of. So please stop talking nonsense and be rude to people that just maybe they know what they are talking about.
<< Comment #447 @ 13:02 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland therm  - Reply to #445
where did i mentioned lod?

heaton crap mouse = deathadder with mx518 sensor

as i said before if u dont see this u must be either blind or just very fucking stupid
<< Comment #448 @ 13:32 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Romania Anonymous (193.231.196.6)  - Reply to #447
If you bothered to read the thread you would find out that it DOESN'T have the same sensor as MX518.
How old are you? 12? What fanboy mouse do YOU have?
Didn't get enough love when you where little? What is your problem?
Oh, I see, you're too broke to buy one. Wait, you are 12, your mom doesn't want you to have it, right? ;)
<< Comment #482 @ 11:05 CDT, 14 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By 005 flowrush  - Reply to #445
Just because it doesn't track the best on all pads doesn't really reduce it's greatness. It works amazing on all the cloth pads I've tried, which includes the Talent, Goliathus Speed and CM Storm Battlepad DP. If k1llsen is able to show amazing aim with it, people can't just write the mouse off simply because it is laser. Also I use the textured grip and had the mouse for atleast 6 months no without any sort of peeling you speak of.
Edited by flowrush at 11:06 CDT, 14 September 2010
<< Comment #444 @ 11:03 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #443
g9x has some flaws like high lift-off and jittering (which you could complain about and get a replacement), the wheel rattles, but most significant is pos. accel induced by the sensor which is not fixable.
Edited by crea* at 11:05 CDT, 9 September 2010
<< Comment #481 @ 10:59 CDT, 14 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By 005 flowrush  - Reply to #444
I have a g9x and I've never experienced this jitter you speak of. I also have the Abyssus and it has terrible jitter. However cypher uses that mouse and does wonders with it. In the case of playing in game, though the jitter isn't noticeable (probably has to do with the way games use angle's to count movements, not quite the same as you view the mouse on your desktop).
Edited by flowrush at 11:02 CDT, 14 September 2010
<< Comment #494 @ 02:33 CDT, 15 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #481
No
<< Comment #446 @ 12:47 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland nonamed 
I measured Lift-off distance of my EC1 & EC2 and it's ~1.54mm (using my electronic caliper) . on my S&S 5L. First I put a CD <- it was still tracking but I add a sheet of paper and then mouse stopped tracking...

I really like the shape of EC1 , EC2 is a bit small for my hands but still have a lot of fun using it .

PS. I had G9 for 2 years.. I your grip starts peeling you can order for free a new one via logitech... I had ordered a total of 4 wideload grips when I have been using my G9 , the same concern glide pads... You can order a new one without any problems, for FREE.. Logitech has great support and really cares about customers .
Edited by nonamed at 12:50 CDT, 9 September 2010
<< Comment #449 @ 13:32 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Romania Anonymous (193.231.196.6)  - Reply to #446
Yes, I know that they send you replacements, but that's not the ideea. Where's the build quality? Why my Qpad 5K is intact, after almost a year, and it has approximately the same coating.
<< Comment #451 @ 14:21 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland nonamed  - Reply to #449
I had my G9 and no problems with grip peeling off, so I guess this issue was not present in every model... but I simply ordered new grips just 'in case...' . After 2 yrs mouse looked like new one .
All in all in 'MY' opinion Logitech build quality is pretty good . Much better than Razer . I have many other Logitech devices - keyboards, headphones and can not say any bad word about its quality .
Edited by nonamed at 14:27 CDT, 9 September 2010
<< Comment #450 @ 13:37 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #446
Are you from Poland? The customer service there is terrible. They always tell the same, i.e. we don't have the parts now, but whenever we get them we will send them to you...
<< Comment #452 @ 15:06 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Japan Anonymous (219.98.211.188) 
The EC1 EC2 may be using an old sensor but it is a reliable one and just as long as you dont use it at high CPI you shouldnt have a problem (note: the old deathadder was using an Avago 3668, which basically was an upgraded IR version of the 3060/3080. I still think it was the best optical sensor and wished the EC1/EC2 used it if they could).

It also is using an optical wheel sensor, which is by FAR better than the cheap mechanical rotary encoders that wear out FAST(the mechanism is the same as on the Boomslang Collector's Edition 2007). Personally, I'm tired of the wheel failing and having to buy another mouse just for the wheel. Its also using Omron microswitches for the lett & right click buttons, the other button switches are from TTC. Even though it may not be using any new parts, in total this is a very well designed mouse.

But some have been experiencing an issue with the wheel ( others havent, dont know the reason for this) , so you cant go shooting at other manufacturers about the build quality. Just need to give them time and let them build up (or ruin) their reputation.
1%
<< Comment #529 @ 05:39 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #452
why is high CPI a problem?
<< Comment #454 @ 15:45 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (95.49.87.87) 
so this mouse is bad at 2000CPI ?? I am rather a high sens player at 1680x1050 res.
<< Comment #453 @ 15:45 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (95.49.87.87) 
Mouse wheel issues means what exactly ? Can not find any info about this prob.
<< Comment #455 @ 17:02 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By sleepy lemming#13 
Its said that the sensor might not give as good a performance on 2000 CPI than on 500. That does not mean you, as a high senser, will have any problems. Most likely you won't. Now if you were to play with 2000 CPI and a sens of say 40cm/360 for some reason then maybe, maybe you'll have probs. Still doubt it though.

As for the mouse wheel - check this very thread.
<< Comment #456 @ 17:38 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (95.49.87.87) 
Checked my EC1 & EC2 no issues with mwheel...
<< Comment #457 @ 17:39 CDT, 9 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By sleepy lemming#13  - Reply to #456
grats
<< Comment #459 @ 07:41 CDT, 10 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.12.16.143) 
I am buying this mouse tonight from Zowiegear.dk
Are you guys sure it has as good tracking as Deathadder or better?
I dont worry about prediction and I dont use mousewheel many times in game.
And can anyone plz let me know how long it takes to deliver from them to Denmark to UK?
Thanks in advance.
<< Comment #460 @ 11:20 CDT, 10 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Half-Life Shaddap  - Reply to #459
From the website

Delivery time and transportation
Delivery of goods from shop.zowiegear.com will be made by FedEx.
Delivery times in Denmark is usually 1-3 working days.
Delivery times in Scandinavia is usually 2-5 working days.
Delivery in other European countries and internationally is usually 3-8 days.
<< Comment #461 @ 12:16 CDT, 10 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America Gunuko12 
Now, that little trick to change the polling rate from 1000hz to 500hz (holding the front thumb button till the mouse turns on) does the mouse always stay at 500hz from there on, or do you have to do it every time you turn your computer on?
<< Comment #462 @ 14:11 CDT, 10 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #461
only once obviously
<< Comment #475 @ 11:40 CDT, 12 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #462
Actually it turns back to 1000Hz if you totally cut the power to the mouse.
<< Comment #463 @ 15:54 CDT, 10 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Half-Life Shaddap 
Got mine today and so far it's a really pleasant experience. I was a bit unsure on whether I should pick EC1 or EC2, but I'm really glad I didn't go for EC2. I think it's a mouse suited for asians/women/boys, so don't be afraid about the mouse being too large because the EC1 is a normal/slightly small mouse already.
<< Comment #464 @ 16:32 CDT, 10 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By lvlup2 lolvc  - Reply to #463
it's 6 percent smaller, not fucking 66%.
<< Comment #465 @ 17:00 CDT, 10 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Half-Life Shaddap  - Reply to #464
Well that doesn't sound like a lot. I read it was ~one inch shorter so that seemed like a big deal.
Edited by Kirsebaer at 17:00 CDT, 10 September 2010
<< Comment #466 @ 19:02 CDT, 10 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (109.128.145.6)  - Reply to #465
also got my ec1 today, and so far it seems a really great mouse, and I have many, incl g5, mx500, ie3, deathadder, abyssus, xai and ikari.

the shape is very similar to the IE3, with a grip I find even better. No problem with the tracking, its flawless except for the small prediction which really isnt annoying.
<< Comment #467 @ 00:47 CDT, 11 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Japan Anonymous (219.98.211.188) 
This japanese site has a review on the Zowie mice, and while you wont understand any of it ( translation sites are useless when translating japanese to english ), they do have some nice pics. They also have tested it on some pads so it should help too(ave. lift off distance was about 2mm)
http://www.4gamer.net/games/098/G009814/20100907059/
<< Comment #468 @ 07:56 CDT, 11 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Half-Life Shaddap 
I quick question, how do you assign the scroll wheel to be double click? Before I used a G1 and with Set point I could change all this, but without Set point and using the Windows 7 mouse settings, I can only change the amount of lines when I scroll.
<< Comment #470 @ 09:25 CDT, 11 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Half-Life Shaddap  - Reply to #468
Found a tiny program..http://www.highrez.co.uk/downloads/XMouseButtonControl.htm
1%
<< Comment #469 @ 08:42 CDT, 11 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By australia-nsw end0rphine 
Anyone else notice the price increase of shipping from zowiegear.dk? Anyone know if this means we get that packages earlier? Its fucking doubled...
<< Comment #471 @ 09:32 CDT, 11 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Netherlands Dav 
I got my EC2 Black today.
Same shape as the DeathAdder. Only slightly smaller and quite a bit lighter.
Buttons are nicely sensitive. The mousewheel is broken as fuck, just as described by others.
Sensor is better than the DA. I can live with the prediction.
The DA always felt a little choppy and slightly input laggy to me, even though the sensor was accurate. Zowie is very smooth and snappy.
<< Comment #472 @ 09:57 CDT, 11 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Half-Life Shaddap  - Reply to #471
How is yours broken? My scroll wheel works fine so just curious.
<< Comment #473 @ 10:20 CDT, 11 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Netherlands Dav  - Reply to #472
Often it drops an input when changing from scrolling one way to the other.
<< Comment #530 @ 05:42 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #471
The shape is way more comparable to IE3.0 than the DA. get it right noob!
<< Comment #474 @ 07:47 CDT, 12 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (94.4.165.131) 
Heres a video review of the mouse, he just talks about shape and stuff, he doesn't actually show any tracking though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCw7VERTUkc
<< Comment #476 @ 15:54 CDT, 13 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr 
After using a EC2 White over the weekend I would say it's a very good mouse but because of some minor issues it couldn't really convince me compared to the Xai.

Mine also has the wheel bug, nothing that really bothers me ingame.
<< Comment #477 @ 16:16 CDT, 13 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By t2 tourist  - Reply to #476
this is the part where I write 'such as?' and then you write half a page essay. gogogo
<< Comment #478 @ 23:28 CDT, 13 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #477
Lmao, still havent got mine =/
Least i get to read a half page essay, YAY!
<< Comment #479 @ 08:50 CDT, 14 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #477
First of all my EC2 also has that Wheel Bug but that doesn't bother me ingame, it doesn't interfere with how I use the dedicated weapon binds on the mouse wheel.

For my taste the wheel isn't stiff enough and it could have a better defined rasterization buth the wheel button feels pretty good.

The same goes for the main buttons, they could be stiffer, I just like the stiff buttons of the Xai, others maybe not.
The operating travel also feels a little bit long but compared to other gaming mice they are still good.

I really like the shape, it fits my Claw Grip very well and the grip is very good, damn sticky, something you may find uncomfortable (note: mine is the one without the rubber coating on the top).

Unfortunately with my Grip the thumb buttons are a too far at the back.
With the Xai my tumb holds the mouse right in the center under the 2 thumb buttons, with the EC2 my thumb holds the mouse more under the forward thumb button.
So I have to move my thumb more back to press the back thumb button which also caused some miss clicks, not optimal.
That also makes it a little back-heavy while lifting.
For my taste the side buttons also have to much travel.

Sensor works very well and does exactly what it's supposed to do (if angle snapping isn't an issue for you).
With Enotus Mouse Test I get a max. speed of slightly over 4m/s (1000 CPI, 500Hz on a Mionix Sargas), that's something you will not hit ingame.
With the standard lens the max. speed would possibly be a little higher but I doesn't really matter and I'm too lazy to look whe´re I put my Ikari Optical (same sensor with standard lens).

The LOD is as expected very low:

Talent: <1,2 mm (1 CD)
QcK heavy: <1,2 mm
Mionix Sargas: 1,5 mm

Wheight on my kitchen scale (cable lying parallel on a book right in front) is almost the same as the Xai:

Xai: 97g
EC2: 98g

Glide is fine and I find the cord pretty good but I still prefere the braided cord of the Xai which has less friction.


From an objective POV I findthe price too high.

As you can see it's mainly some minor things which are comparable to other gaming mice but which are imho simply better on the Xai.
I should also note that my Xai works very well, no problems on cloth and I can easily manage the small acceleration.

I hope that counts as a half page essay for you, at least it fills my whole screen. :D
(it's mainly a copy of a post I made in another forum)
Edited by Bullveyr at 08:51 CDT, 14 September 2010
5%
<< Comment #480 @ 10:41 CDT, 14 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By t2 tourist  - Reply to #479
1. cord - nonissue
2. wheel - nonissue
3. button stiffnes - nonissue
4. alternate buttons position - who cares

sounds like a perfect mouse to me
4%
<< Comment #486 @ 16:31 CDT, 14 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #480
Yea, simply minor preferences but I don't see what the EC can give you compared to your current Frankenmouse.
Sure you might prefer the shape/grip but you allready have a very low LOD mouse with less weight and a comparable sensor performance.
<< Comment #489 @ 17:03 CDT, 14 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By t2 tourist  - Reply to #486
I don't play with my frankenmouse, altho it's quite playable. wmo all the way bahbeee
<< Comment #491 @ 17:17 CDT, 14 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #489
:D
<< Comment #498 @ 21:08 CDT, 15 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France winz  - Reply to #480
Actually I find the shape very awkward but that might be because i'm playing with ambidextrous mice since always.
<< Comment #532 @ 05:45 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #480
it's better than the IE3.0, it IS the perfect mouse : )
<< Comment #483 @ 12:05 CDT, 14 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (94.11.232.37)  - Reply to #479
You can't really complain that the buttons are too far back... if you wanted it to be more like the xai you should have got the EC1...

So basically it is as good as the xai, but with a better sensor as there is no accel problem? I think i will get one.
<< Comment #487 @ 16:37 CDT, 14 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #483
I don't complain about, that's why I wrote it in a"neutral" way, but it's simply how it is, it's not like I'm saying "EC2 sucks because of the side buttons". ;)

I choose the EC2 over the the EC1 because I knew that a bigger ergonomic mouse isn't my thing.

From an objective POV there isn't something wrong with the EC (besides the wheel bug) and it's a very good mouse, still pretty much everything about a mouse besides the sensor performance is pretty subjective.
<< Comment #484 @ 13:41 CDT, 14 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Japan Anonymous (219.98.73.98)  - Reply to #479
thanks for your review. The wheel bug is more annoying during non-gaming situations, especially when you use the wheel to change tabs, etc. I'll just wait for Zowie to confirm the issue and then buy one. As for the price, though it may be a bit high for a simple mouse using an old optical sensor their not going to be selling a ton of these so the manufacturing costs arent coming down easily. I can live with it costing the same as a DA3.5G.

For the wheel being loose, if you dont mind throwing your warranty out the window, you could make it tighter by pulling on the spring inside the wheel(to make the tension higher).

Personally I dont understand why people make a big fuss about about the microscopic accel. the Avago 9500 laser sensors have (most wont notice it unless they try to look for it), but then again the optical sensor on these mice do perfectly what their supposed to do and thats what counts (wished they used the S3668, but that would make more DA clone :-p ). The only problem I had with the Xai was its was a bit too low for me and the stupid firmware....
<< Comment #488 @ 16:46 CDT, 14 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #484
According to Zowie a part of the batch is affected by the wheel bug but they dont really know why and unfortunately they don't have a bugged EC themself for testing.
You could tell that countryman of yours (I love that guy :D) that he should contact them, they might find his findings usefull.

Surely there are understandable reasons for the high price tag but as a customer you simpoly ask yourself what the mouse offers you for the price and at the end of the the day the EC is a pretty basic 5 button mouse.
Personally I don't have a problem with paying 60€ for my EC2.
<< Comment #490 @ 17:05 CDT, 14 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By t2 tourist  - Reply to #488
basic 5 button mouse? how many buttons does one neeed? what justifies a higher price on other more expensive mice? srsly...
<< Comment #492 @ 17:56 CDT, 14 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United Kingdom ZeritoN  - Reply to #490
I get pretty annoyed not using a 5 button mouse tbh.

Scroll wheel set to double click, side buttons for browser back/forward pages, tabs etc and team-binds/rocketjump scripts or whatever.
<< Comment #493 @ 02:31 CDT, 15 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #490
More Buttons, Macros with onboard memory, advanced software, profiles, weight tuning system.
I'm not saying that you need that stuff or that there is something wrong with a basic 5 Button Mouse but other mice just offer more features for the same or less money.

How many buttons you need or want is personell preference but for me the number of buttons I could easily reach and put usefull bindings on is ofc also limited.
5 buttons are enough for me allthough I wish the CPI button on the Xai would be bindable.
I don't play Quake where I would most likely be fine with a 3 button mouse but for most of the modern FPS I need at least one side button.

Because I suck my pinky isn't an option to press a key on the keyboard. :D
So I have to bind "sprint" on a mouse button to still be able to move in any direction at the same time.
Unfortunately most modern games aren't hip shooter and binding "iron sight" on the keyboard just doesn't work for me.
<< Comment #495 @ 17:42 CDT, 15 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By t2 tourist  - Reply to #493
I bind iron sights to C. I make 98% headshots that way.
<< Comment #496 @ 17:59 CDT, 15 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United Kingdom ZeritoN  - Reply to #495
Ironsights are for fags.


Be a man. Fire from the hip.
<< Comment #499 @ 02:27 CDT, 16 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #496
Tell that the game developers.
<< Comment #500 @ 02:27 CDT, 16 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #495
I wished that would work for me. :(
<< Comment #497 @ 17:59 CDT, 15 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By sleepy lemming#13 
The more I use this mouse the more I like it - despite the wheel bug which does not bother me ingame (lucky me). I agree with Bully on the price tag though. IF the wheel wasn't bugged you might say that the mouse offers a feature basically none other does at the moment. To be sure, for some this is already the case (as apparently not all EC mice are affected).

Also, regarding the weight distribution: when lifting the mouse in the middle with only two fingers I can't make it tilt to one side. So it has a very good center of gravity I think. I can't notice it being back-heavy at all ingame as well. But well, the human being is only so good at detecting stuff like that so who knows :)
<< Comment #501 @ 02:31 CDT, 16 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #497
The back-heaviness is just a minor issue when lifting the mouse, not really caused by a flawed weight distribution but by me holding the mouse.
<< Comment #502 @ 05:32 CDT, 16 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.3.221.109) 
Fedex delivery is due today for my EC2
Its 10 miles from here in their local facility since last night 2:30a.m.
And they dont even bother to load on van for delivery. wtf!!
Its 11 am now and I dont think they will deliver today. They are so slow and inefficient. grrrr
My parcel was resting 2 days in their Paris facility. Couldn't choose other carrier anyway. :<
<< Comment #504 @ 09:30 CDT, 16 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Sweden Anonymous (85.226.151.126)  - Reply to #502
Fedex was shit when they delivered my mouse aswell, took them 3days from they got it in my town untill they gave it too me.


Regarding the mouse, this is by far the best one ive ever used, and i do not have any scroll bug or anything. I used 3.0 before all the time and i could never see my self going back, doing so much better ingame now and my aim is actually starting to get really really good after getting this mouse!
<< Comment #505 @ 10:47 CDT, 16 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America T1E  - Reply to #504
hi HeatOn!
<< Comment #503 @ 08:53 CDT, 16 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr 
Because I wanted to know if some of the older mice were still using optical wheels or if they allready used a mechanical rotary encoder I did some googling:

Krait: optical
MX518: optical
Diamondback: mechanical

Then I searched for some newer mice.

G9x and G500 dont use a mechanical rotary encoder either.

EC Series feels way less special now. :p
<< Comment #506 @ 11:03 CDT, 16 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Lithuania GUArd  - Reply to #503
wheel is last thing i care in mouse.. I would love to try it for few days, to test prediction.
<< Comment #507 @ 11:12 CDT, 16 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.3.221.109) 
Finally received it. (EC2 black)
So far tracking, clicks feels nice. I can get more headshots in game. But still need to tune my sensitivity dpi until I find which one to suit.

Miner problems are below and not a big deal You can manage them easy.

Wheel is bit noisy and need extra pressure to click.
DPI should be selectable like 200-300-400..2000 etc.
Sidegrips get collects dust but its much better than Deathadders shiney grip at side.
Side buttons are deep travel which some might not like it and it could be more stiffer.
Sensor is dead center but looks like it fitted in an angle and sticks out a bit. If my mouse feet wears out it might touch to my mousepad.
Scrollwheel color is not as bright as Deathadder but nothing to worry about it.
No software to assign macros but they might release in future.
Polling rate is not as stable as DA but tracking feels smoother.
Rubbercord should be braided cable because they charged more than enough for mouse (60 euros).

Apart from these mouse sensor if far more accurate and well balanced light weight. LOD is low as hell.. stop tacking as soon as I lift mouse. Clicks are fantastic.
This will be my last mouse I think I wont buy any new mice until there will be another optical lightweight mouse.
<< Comment #508 @ 11:43 CDT, 16 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By t2 tourist  - Reply to #507
"Scrollwheel color is not as bright as Deathadder but nothing to worry about it."

phew, thanks for getting that out of the way.
<< Comment #510 @ 13:08 CDT, 16 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America Coke15  - Reply to #507
Braided cables are a bad thing. It is just another example of a company spending two cents to trick its customers into thinking that the product is of a higher quality. Do you really think it is expensive?

Braided cables are stiff as hell. Do you really want more cable drag? Thin and flexible rubber cords are a better choice.

I am VERY happy zowie left out the retarded shit like a braided cord, weight system, led light shows and a hyperscroll wheel.

I agree with you on the price and the DPI steps though.
<< Comment #511 @ 13:30 CDT, 16 September 2010 >>
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By djogedj h8m3  - Reply to #510
braided cable offers less friction though
1%
<< Comment #512 @ 13:31 CDT, 16 September 2010 >>
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By Poland vib  - Reply to #510
plus fucking one
<< Comment #513 @ 15:41 CDT, 16 September 2010 >>
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By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #507
You can't do much about the CPI without interpolation. ;)
<< Comment #514 @ 16:43 CDT, 16 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By sleepy lemming#13  - Reply to #507
"No software to assign macros but they might release in future."

Hell no. The hole point of the EC is to be a no BS mouse. No drivers, no macros, no software.
<< Comment #509 @ 12:38 CDT, 16 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.3.221.109) 
Yep paid 60 euros + shipping which is way more than new Deathadder.
Why shouldn't whine little bit. D
<< Comment #515 @ 01:51 CDT, 17 September 2010 >>
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By United States of America JustBeMadness 
i just got my EC2 white. i really like the mouse but i got two problems. one is just the wheel bug. the other is the polling rate. at both 500hz and 1000hz, the rate isn't stable, checked using mouserate.exe. at 500, you sometimse get 333hz or something like that. at 1000, sometmise i get125hz or something like 39hz. anyone else run in to this problem?
<< Comment #516 @ 06:20 CDT, 17 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.5.63.0)  - Reply to #515
Mine 1000hz is not stable its prob my motherboard.
500hz is not stable either I get like 566 hz
I just used HIDUSBF and patched USB at 500hz
Now it is more stable 499hz. :)
GL or you need reformat os etc.
<< Comment #517 @ 06:52 CDT, 17 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United Kingdom Anonymous (90.201.8.36) 
I just got my EC2 black this morning. I have been using the Xai before this.

I think the tracking feels better than the Xai, you do get the straight lines from angle snapping etc in paint, but it doesn't feel like it forces you to draw straight lines when you don't want to. Curves and circles all draw well too.

I prefer the shape to the Xai, I think the size of the EC2 is well matched to the xai, its slightly shorter but its also higher so it feels about the same size.

I think I have the wheel bug, when I scroll up a few lines and then try to go down 1 sometimes it doesn't register, It feels kind of like its stuck between clicks so it doesn't measure the first one on the way back down. I prefer the feel of the Xai wheel, the EC2 wheel doesn't feel as accurate or defined and the scroll feels 'cheaper'. The mousedown click feels good to me though.

I have a bit of an issue with the side buttons, my thumb rests on them in the same place as the xai, but they feel really flimsy and again 'cheaper'. If you rub your thumb up and down they wobble and don't feel like they are seated very well and the clicks don't feel as defined either. Sometimes I will try and click the second button with the middle of my thumb, but it will press both, I didn't have this issue with the Xai. It is probably something I can easily adapt to after using the mouse for longer.

The polling rate is very stable for me at 1000hz, probably the most stable I have seen, not tried 500hz because 1000hz feels great.

The shiny sides do feel like they will get a bit greasy, I don't have sweaty hands so this wont be an issue for me. I do prefer the rubberised sides on the Xai though.

The cord on the EC2 is slightly thinner and feels softer and more flexible, the cord has never been an issue for me on any mice though.

The weight of both mice feels about the same, and the centre of ballance feels good on both.

Overall I think the shape and tracking is better on the EC2 (on Qck Heavy), my DPI on my Xai was about 1004 so using 1000 on the EC2 is no problem. If you needed more accuracy in the DPI then the Xai would be better in that respect. I never had any real issues with tracking on the Xai, but the knowledge that the accel was there made it feel less accurate and it didn't look as smooth drawing shapes in paint. The buttons and wheel on the Xai were better, but nothing that I can't live with on the EC2.

As tracking and shape is my primary concern when it comes to a mouse I will definitely be using the EC2 from now on (unless I find something bad ive missed) and will take my Xai to work to replace my Mamba.

If anybody has any specific questions relating to the EC2 then I will try and answer them.
<< Comment #518 @ 06:57 CDT, 17 September 2010 >>
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By sleepy lemming#13  - Reply to #517
Yes thats the wheel bug. Honestly I know of more people with the bug than without. So for those who use the wheel for weapon selection and whatnot - stay away from the EC (for now, as I hope ZOWIE is going to fix that...)
<< Comment #519 @ 07:14 CDT, 17 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United Kingdom Anonymous (90.201.8.36)  - Reply to #518
Yeh, its not really a problem for me because I use up and down for specific weapons, so i just scroll a few clicks when switching anyway.
<< Comment #520 @ 08:34 CDT, 17 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #519
same here
Edited by Bullveyr at 08:35 CDT, 17 September 2010
<< Comment #521 @ 09:31 CDT, 17 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By sleepy lemming#13  - Reply to #519
Sure, still they need to fix this soon. I know some people would really dig the mouse if the wheel worked.
<< Comment #523 @ 11:23 CDT, 17 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Romania Anonymous (89.42.164.118) 
So .... bottom line is the sensor better or almost the same as 3.0/deathadder/mx518/1.1 ? Besides the scroll problem , would this be a better buy than the 3.0 that i allready own ?
<< Comment #524 @ 12:03 CDT, 17 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France pz  - Reply to #523
The sensor is as good as the ones in the four you mentioned imo, not better. I'm talking about feeling ingame, not specs.

My feeling with the EC2 is "3.0 tracking / mini DA shape".
<< Comment #525 @ 12:37 CDT, 17 September 2010 >>
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By sleepy lemming#13  - Reply to #523
The LOD is better because Zowie replaced the original lense from the Avago sensor.

Plus, you get 1000hz out of the box. Its up to you and your pocket money I guess.
<< Comment #522 @ 11:14 CDT, 17 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America JustBeMadness 
hey guys just thought you'd like to know, zowie just got back to me and they said they could replace my mouse with the wheelbug since they got a bug free batch :)
<< Comment #526 @ 00:39 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Unset beta_male  - Reply to #522
im guessing you have to ship it back to them and then theyll ship you a new one? not sure if thats worth the effort for something so minor (minor for me)
<< Comment #535 @ 06:47 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America JustBeMadness  - Reply to #526
yeah that's what they're gonna do. i think it's minor too but i live in the US and they have a facility in california so it should take less than a week to get there and come back, maybe week and a half so i'd rather just get a fully functional one
<< Comment #527 @ 05:11 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.5.63.0) 
I have some problem with mouse I cant explain it.
Tracking is good on desktop but in game I have to try hard to aim now.
Prediction doesn't feel in game but I do want prediction in game.
EC2 shape is nice but I do prefer ambidextrous mice.

6400fps I find less than 9000fps in my IME3.0 I know its not big difference but I can feel it just like people can find difference in 60hz vs 120hz lcd or 125hz vs 500hz vs 1000hz polling rate of mice. I think I prefer to have more fps sensors such as 7080fps mouse feels nicer than 6400. Its just me I guess. :))

I do like laser mice which has 7080fps laser sensor. I find them better than G9X latest sensors. I like Copperhead's sensor more than DAs sensor and I feel it is very natural just shape is weired cant hold for long time. So I got Sidewinder X3 which I was using before EC2. I will give another go to EC2 just in case I get used to shape prob.
<< Comment #536 @ 07:00 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
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By Quake 3 (black) crea*  - Reply to #527
don't throw around numbers as if you knew what they're implying. Just stay with how the mouse feels.

The '9000' fps of the ie3.0 means nothing on its own because the mouse still can only do 1.68m/sec max. tracking speed whereas the zowie or sensor you quoted ('6400fps') should do much more. Tracking is dependent on a variety of factors not only 'fps' that's a marketing gimmick like dpi.
2%
<< Comment #539 @ 12:24 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
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By anonymous Anonymous (92.5.63.0)  - Reply to #536
As I said mouse doesn't feel natural and I cant explain whats wrong. Mouse is too smooth in game. If you guys played L4D multiplayer. Mouse feels smoother than that in ET or RTCW or COD. Cant control easy thats all.

Mouse has weired prediction. Yes you can draw straight lines. But try drawing straight lines vertical. Test Mx518 Deathadder3G you can draw straight lines vertical and horizontal but in EC2 you can draw lines only horizontal. It has low or none prediction when you do try vertical straight lines. So mouse predicts weired thats all I want to say.

Yes prob its not just 6400fps but that is how I feel mouse in game. I dont need 8000dpi mice and marketing BS. I can play with 400 dpi mouse.
I tested with QCK heavy, mantis speed and Sleelseries 5L same result in all dpi settings.
<< Comment #540 @ 12:31 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By sleepy lemming#13  - Reply to #539
6400fps has nothing to do with DPI. The mouse runs @ 1000hz, maybe thats why it feels so smooth. The MX518 runs @ 125hz USB rate (unless you overclock the port manually).

There's nothing wrong with the sensor of the EC at all. So you either have a broken mouse or its just you. I assume the latter :).
<< Comment #541 @ 13:04 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
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By Poland vib  - Reply to #540
Dude, he just stated that he doesn't need 8000 DPI (400 DPI is enough for him) and that it is not just (if at all) the FPS. You are right about the pooling rate, most people play with 500 Hz so he might be used to that and now that he uses 1000 Hz it feels weird to him. My advice is: change the pooling rate to 500 Hz and see if it helps.

Also, no prediction at all ruins my aim in ET (same with RTCW), but that's just because you mostly only have to aim horizontally in ET. I think no prediction vertically should not be a problem at all.

Another advice is: just play around with that mouse for a bit longer while not thinking about the technical sides of it (like FPS and prediction) and see if you really don't like it or if it is just you.
<< Comment #543 @ 14:17 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By sleepy lemming#13  - Reply to #541
The mouse should not (and does not for me) feel different from a MX518 as long as you adjust your ingame sens to the CPI values of 500/1000 compared to 400/800 (MX518). Its the same sensor. So its the polling rate or him ;)
<< Comment #545 @ 16:28 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (94.0.198.72)  - Reply to #539
I can draw vertical straight lines just fine with this mouse, exactly the same as drawing horizontally. You sweep easier and faster horizontally than you do vertically, but perhaps your mouse is cream crackered...
<< Comment #544 @ 16:28 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.5.63.0) 
Yes it was polling rate problem. I capped polling rate with hidusbf because I was getting strange polling rate 566hz I got stable rate 499 with hidusbf but it didn't work better in game. Now I can draw vertical lines with no problem. Thank god for that. Tracking seems good now.

Simply hook in other usb port works better on 1000hz lol
Yes I used to play with 500hz with DA, X3 and Mx518

Appreciate all your help.
<< Comment #546 @ 17:11 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland vib  - Reply to #544
wtf someone help me understand this guy
<< Comment #547 @ 19:07 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
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By sleepy lemming#13  - Reply to #544
Did you set the mouse to 500hz by holding the upper thumb button while plugging it in?
<< Comment #548 @ 23:08 CDT, 18 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By anonymous Anonymous (92.5.63.0) 
Yes I did but it was strange polling rate 566hz.
So I tried Hidusbf and made it 500hz and it was stable 499hz.
And it messed my tracking. But now its ok 1000hz feels good.
<< Comment #549 @ 16:17 CDT, 19 September 2010 >>
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By Austria Bullveyr 
I moved back to the Xai but the EC2 is still a good mouse.
<< Comment #550 @ 06:41 CDT, 20 September 2010 >>
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By France winz  - Reply to #549
Looks like everyone moves back to their old mouse after using the EC2.
Why did you change back exactly?

There were 2 major things that bothered me with that mouse :

First : the mouse is too big, the shape is somehow awkward, even after a week I still had trouble with the shape while I can get easily used to the Abyssus in about an hour.

Second : The fucking wheel is way too sensitive. I hate the feeling of it and I actually have weapons bound on mwheelup/down while I zoom with mouse3 which leads to unwanted weapon switches. Very, very annoying.
Edited by *aAa*winz at 06:43 CDT, 20 September 2010
<< Comment #551 @ 07:10 CDT, 20 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #550
I have allready posted it in this thread.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1959206#pid1959206
<< Comment #552 @ 07:34 CDT, 20 September 2010 >>
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By anonymous Anonymous (92.5.63.0) 
Yep I think I will move back to Sidewinder X3 too.
I prefer ambidextrous mice. EC2 is little bit big and tall for me.
Tracking is gets bad on 500hz.
I dont use sidebuttons but they are deep travel.
No macros.
Its a nice mouse but it could have been little bit better.
<< Comment #555 @ 15:41 CDT, 20 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #552
Mine doesn't have tracking problems @500Hz.
Edited by Bullveyr at 15:42 CDT, 20 September 2010
<< Comment #553 @ 10:31 CDT, 20 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Germany Anonymous (80.137.101.116) 
intelli > all ;-)

but zowie did a good job for their first mice, like steelseries with xai last year
<< Comment #554 @ 11:58 CDT, 20 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By sleepy lemming#13 
I used the Xai before the EC and I'm not moving back (in fact I just ordered the black edition EC2 hehe *fingers crossed for no wheel bug*).

"Tracking is gets bad on 500hz"

Not really something you can critizise as they did not advertise this as a feature. The mouse is supposed to be used @ 1000hz and works just fine.
<< Comment #557 @ 04:09 CDT, 21 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By australia-nsw end0rphine  - Reply to #554
Originally had the EC1 White. Loved it so much, wanted to try the EC2 White. Loved that even more so. Problem is.. they both have the scroll wheel bug LOL
<< Comment #560 @ 04:36 CDT, 28 September 2010 >>
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By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #557
Does the white coating feels slippery?
<< Comment #561 @ 04:45 CDT, 28 September 2010 >>
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By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #560
not for me, in fact it's damn sticky
<< Comment #556 @ 02:00 CDT, 21 September 2010 >>
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By Unset beta_male 
same

ive permanently moved from my xai to ec1 now
<< Comment #559 @ 04:35 CDT, 28 September 2010 >>
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By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #556
Hmmm, you can get use from no prediction to prediction? To me it looks like i has damn heavy prediction?
<< Comment #562 @ 05:20 CDT, 28 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By sleepy lemming#13  - Reply to #559
People tend to overestimate the effect of prediction ingame. In Quake Live I don't notice it at all. Yes I can check it in Paint by drawing straight lines but in the game it makes no difference.
<< Comment #563 @ 05:25 CDT, 28 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #562
I dont think its overestimation, infact games with head shots are much severly affected, it feels like minute adjustment are harder to make, i dont know but maybe thats just me using the 3.0 too long =/
<< Comment #564 @ 10:18 CDT, 28 September 2010 >>
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By against me! toop  - Reply to #563
Thats what I find it difficult to aim in game. Mouse takes a lot of effort to aim someone head. Which I can do in a second with Mx518.
Mouse feels too smooth. But I can see you also find it difficult to aim with so its just not me.
Try polling rate at 500hz see if it gets worse.
<< Comment #565 @ 10:39 CDT, 28 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By France pz  - Reply to #564
518 has big prediction too
<< Comment #566 @ 12:52 CDT, 28 September 2010 >>
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By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #565
I was just trying to say that, in fact they have same sensors =.=
<< Comment #567 @ 04:26 CDT, 29 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Romania Anonymous (193.231.196.6)  - Reply to #566
No they don't...
MX518 has ADNS 3080, Zowie has 3060.
<< Comment #569 @ 05:58 CDT, 29 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By QUAKEWORLD terrorhead  - Reply to #567
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1916687#pid1916687
?
<< Comment #571 @ 07:10 CDT, 29 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Romania Anonymous (193.231.196.6)  - Reply to #569
Trust me...
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=...ostcount=8
<< Comment #572 @ 07:12 CDT, 29 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Austria Bullveyr  - Reply to #569
That post of mine was before it was offical that it has the A3060.

But there isn't much of a difference between A3060 and A3080 (same hardware) and Zowie most likely uses the A3080 SROM (firmware/software for the sensor) on 2000 CPI.
<< Comment #558 @ 07:53 CDT, 21 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By sleepy lemming#13 
Got my EC2 Black today. No wheel bug! Yay!!!
<< Comment #568 @ 05:37 CDT, 29 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma 
Still loving the EC1 : )
<< Comment #570 @ 07:10 CDT, 29 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Sweden Anonymous (82.99.24.145) 
Way to heavy but is sensor good.

Update the kinzu with this sensor and we have the perfect mouse.
<< Comment #575 @ 10:20 CDT, 30 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #570
+ Teflon feet + a bit wider = Perfect mouse
<< Comment #581 @ 13:22 CDT, 30 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By sleepy lemming#13  - Reply to #575
So its Xai with this sensor then.
Edited by nYshak at 13:23 CDT, 30 September 2010
<< Comment #582 @ 16:15 CDT, 30 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By rah GreenMeanie  - Reply to #581
basically look
<< Comment #573 @ 21:00 CDT, 29 September 2010 >>
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By United States of America JustBeMadness 
what dpi do you guys think is the best setting for this mouse?
<< Comment #574 @ 03:12 CDT, 30 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By sleepy lemming#13  - Reply to #573
Whatever floats your boat best I would say. 500 CPI is still enough even for high resolutions and some will prefer this over 1000. Me, I go with 1000 as this is more comfy while surfing/working. There may be little differences in max. speed or LOD depending on CPI, but they won't matter.
<< Comment #576 @ 11:40 CDT, 30 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By against me! toop 
Just took out my IME 3.0 from drawer. Tweaked polling rate to 500.
It is way more accurate than EC2 and Mx518 which I have been using.
I am now getting more accuracy in game. :)
Going to buy WMO and taflon feet.
Cheers.
<< Comment #577 @ 12:12 CDT, 30 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #576
I object the idea of no prediction = more accuracy, imho i think its a matter of habit instead, prediction = less sensitive to movements or adjustments made while no prediction = more sensitive to movement makes.
Some of the best fps players use mouse with prediction and still aim very well, forest etc...
But i can't see my self getting used to it tbh, anyhow i'll give it a try.
<< Comment #578 @ 13:00 CDT, 30 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By against me! toop  - Reply to #577
Its not prediction in mouse which gives me accuracy. I kinda like prediction in my mouse.
IME 3.0 has different feel in game than any mouse I have used. It tracks so good in game. Other non prediction mice I have such as Pyra Xai Lachesis doesn't track as good as in game and gives me smoother moments.
But I mind that I customize my mouse accelration with software. For example Threshold1 Threshold 2 etc. Which gives me smooth moments in game. Without modified enhanced pointer precision IME3.0 used to feels out of control to me.
<< Comment #579 @ 13:06 CDT, 30 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Malaysia somiao  - Reply to #578
I see, thats why i said its preference and habit, mainstream way says that accel = lost of accuracy yet u say it feels good, thats why i suggest to use whatever is comfortable and not look back =D
<< Comment #580 @ 13:20 CDT, 30 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By sleepy lemming#13  - Reply to #579
Yeah right it does not make sense to try and compare mice in terms of how they "feel". Stick to facts you can measure like LOD, max speed the sensor can operate etc.
<< Comment #583 @ 21:16 CDT, 30 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By United States of America illwill_ 
I tried this mouse (EC2), seemed nice but felt too sensitive for me at all DPI levels.
<< Comment #584 @ 21:20 CDT, 30 September 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By against me! toop  - Reply to #583
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1966396#pid1966396
Join the club.
<< Comment #585 @ 14:01 CDT, 23 October 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Poland Glymbol 
If EC is too pricey or shape isn't good, you could try A4Tech X-760H or X-710BH. They have the same ADNS-3060 sensor, and LOD is low due to hardware switch at the bottom, they call it anti-vibrate. Of course build and material quality isn't as good as Zowie, but price is 1/4 of EC1. Maximum speed is better too, it is close to 6 m/s (Enotus Mouse Test), of course 4 m/s is enough already :) Wheel works fine but isn't very durable. It's an option it if a little cheap feel (and bad smell for 3-4 days) don't bother you.
<< Comment #587 @ 15:59 CDT, 23 October 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By against me! toop  - Reply to #585
X-710BH looks nice but I cant get in any of you mentioned above.
<< Comment #586 @ 15:34 CDT, 23 October 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma 
imo, anyone who loved the 3.0 who wants a new mouse - try the EC1, wmo - EC2.
<< Comment #588 @ 05:23 CDT, 24 October 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By sleepy lemming#13  - Reply to #586
Why WMO? EC2 may have about the same size, but a completely different shape.
<< Comment #590 @ 08:21 CDT, 24 October 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #588
actually they are pretty similar.
<< Comment #589 @ 07:43 CDT, 24 October 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By cpm_biohaz_2 stunt.us 
lol you dumbasses going on about prediction are fucking retarded.
<< Comment #591 @ 08:22 CDT, 24 October 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By y h8 koOma  - Reply to #589
gotta admit I was a bit worried about it given all the shit it got here. A few weeks in u don't notice it the slightest anymore.
<< Comment #592 @ 06:06 CDT, 25 October 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By M pTOLEmy 
Pfff....tried the EC2 black for a month....but that angle snapping/prediction is horrible. I just cant get used to it.

Back to my 1.1a



I was so positive about ec2..but its just shit :/
<< Comment #593 @ 06:53 CDT, 25 October 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By against me! toop  - Reply to #592
+1
<< Comment #595 @ 11:14 CDT, 25 October 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By sleepy lemming#13  - Reply to #593
-1
<< Comment #594 @ 08:12 CDT, 25 October 2010 >>
(Link, Reply)
By Earth Heartlesss 
lmao @ paint

are you guys really using paint to check to precision of your mouse(s) ?
lmao

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