Anyone interested in watching the game over QTV, or playing Quakeworld, can download a complete modern Quakeworld package at nQuake.com.

A copy of pak1.pak is also desirable.

i would have won if admin didnt kick me out because of a personal grudge

awesome, I'll watch this!

Did 96 people actually play, or was that the signup number?

Hah, it's a fair cop.

96 was the initial signup number, 13 qualifier games weren't played, but a few extra stepped in, so I guess the number is more like 88.

That's still a pretty good turnout.

wow at the number of active qw players...

Still less than #edl ! But still a good number :)

well edl is another format than aerowalkage, usual "duelmania" gets more players

That's true; The last 5-map knockout duel tournament had to be capped at 256 players. :)

Where are them demos?

http://challenge-tv.com/demos/game/2/quakeworld

To whet your appetite, here are the demos from the lower bracket final between Kingpin and the Russian giant, Bulat .

This match was reeeally close; So close that Bulat ended up with greater frag difference over the course of the 4 maps.

any vods?

hard to produce vods from the future

Because it's so incredibly easy to get hold of a full, working copy of Quakeworld (see the first reply), and because QW MVDs make for much better viewing than VODs, we don't really bother with choppy, streaming videos. I've only seen them produced from a handful of matches.

That's fine for the enthusiast, but no good for a spectator. The game could benefit a lot from VODs.

I suppose you're right. I wouldn't be watching any StarCraft if it weren't for VODs.

Nexuiz has a feature that auto records and auto uploads matches to Youtube. This type of feature would be great for other games.

here is some vods from challenges1
http://www.own3d.tv/videos/?search=milton&...ter=Search

nice dude, finally VODs with the standard nQuake cfg and a decent brightskin.

hud size is a bit smaller and image a bit dark, but it's still better than those "for serious playing" configs that make the game look weird for non-QWers

thanks for posting the VODs

Why is it, that the players are always holding the SG even though they have other weapons (RL, LG)? Is that an effect of the demo or something?

Its a script so they automatically switch to the weapon of choice, fires, and then switches back to SG (which works since there is no delay on weapon switching). This in order to not let the opponent get the weapon drop from them upon death.

Yeah, but it's not such a big deal in duels. It's mainly to introduce an element of restraint and to increase the value of weapons as a resource in the insanely complicated 4on4 team deathmatch mode.

It also allows for a more interesting mechanic where you can bind a key to produce and fire a weapon instantly, allowing for some interesting weapon combinations and also increasing the speed of the game.

The script in itself doesn't introduce anything, it's just an advantage for the player since he is much less likely to drop his weapon.

I'm not sure about the reasoning behind the weapon stay in duels though, it feels like it just removes another factor in what is a fairly simplistic gametype to begin with.

Well, it removes a source of ammunition, meaning, for example, you can't just sit at DM6 red armour all day long or you'll be out of rockets very quickly. Also, it makes it easier for players not in control of the map to stage a comeback. Making it possible to deny someone a weapon just by standing over it would make the game impossible.

Imagine DM4 if you could deny the enemy a lightning gun! Whenever you had to go for armour, you could just pick up lg, pop out for armour, then come back to an enemy you know is toothless.

Let's face it, you don't stand much of a chance in qw without armour, but without armour and a weapon? That's a lost cause. Quakeworld is already a game about domination, and limiting a resource for the losing player (which is all that would do) would only push it too far.

I suppose it is a way to counter the limited map design.

It's nothing to do with the map design. It's an advantage to the losing player and a disadvantage to the winning player no matter what map you are playing. It may be an additional "factor", but it's one that would harm the gametype by limiting the options of the unarmed player, someone who's already at a huge disadvantage.

Just because something works in whatever your game of choice is, doesn't mean it's suitable for every game.

DM4 is a good example of the simplistic map design. It's one tiny room that gives access to everything on the map.

Don't get me wrong, I think Q1 is a great game. I played from the first shareware release until many years later, however, it doesn't mean the game isn't without flaws.

no need to defend the best game ever, now let's wait a couple of hours untill the final start B)

Can anybody produce a VOD of this match!? :O

I'm sure. But seriously, it might not happen so if you want to watch it install nQuake and get the demopack, it's not to hard.

What I don't get is why you'd settle for a (in comparison) low quality vod if you can EASILY watch a high res demo.

Once you've installed nquake, just back it up on external harddisk or cd, then whenever you've removed for whatever reason, you can put the folder back and watch the demo.

To make a vid and upload it takes soooooooo much more time then to just get nquake - it's ridiculous to even mention vods..... ever.

That mentality is exactly why Quake is in decline.

No, nquake is easier to setup then any other quake, and I've installed them all, at least a couple of times.

Moronic kids out here like yourself are the reason why Quake is in decline, because you are nothing but a bunch a spoiled brats who can't think straight. Your brain is in decline, if you compare our argumentation. Let's do that for a second:

Everything I said before is true: it's way easier to download and install nquake, it can be done in 5 minutes. Making a video and upload it is perhaps done in 10x5 minutes, under good conditions and if nothing goes wrong with uploading. And then you'll have just ONE vod, just ONE. And even if you got a decent quality vod, it's still PATHETIC in comparison with watching a demo on your monitor's high resolution.

What the fuck don't you understand about that?

There's a ton of QW vids on the internet already. If you watch those and think it's a cool game to watch, then you can get nquake and watch demos with it.

Now tell me why your argument is better then mine....

Now tell me why your argument is better then mine....

Gladly!

You use the straw man argument that the vod would be poor quality. That's the creator's fault - not the concept. There are not only plenty of high-quality streaming sites out there, but even easy to use sites like Youtube have HD support now.

Sure, it might take a second to install nquake, but what if I'm at work? School? Library? Friend's house? Just can't be bothered to install a game I don't play? By your logic, we wouldn't use things like newspapers, radio, and TV for sports.

You're completely ignoring the spectator side of the game, as if everyone who watches the game should also play it. If it weren't for the VOD feature of the GomTV Starcraft matches, I'm sure a lot less people would even bother keeping up with it. If your goal an increase in both players and spectators, you don't need to be making the entry into enjoying it a painful or out-of-the-way process.

I personally do have nquake, but I would much prefer having VODs so I don't have to keep it installed and deal with the unzip/cut/navigate/paste/run crap or the absolutely HORRIBLE menu system in ezquake. In fact, I hardly ever keep up with the scene, but I watched every single VOD that was posted here all the way through - as I'm sure many others did.

Quite frankly, you are wrong about this in every single possible way you can be wrong.

"you use the straw man argument that the vod would be poor quality. That's the creator's fault - not the concept. There are not only plenty of high-quality streaming sites out there, but even easy to use sites like Youtube have HD support now."

Again, the support might be there, but the time it takes for the average amateur to make a video and upload it succesfully is still unacceptable for most people who also have other things to do. We aren't dedicated sports professionals who are PAID to make media stuff to watch. It's your argumentation that is flawed, not mine if you really think about it.


"Sure, it might take a second to install nquake, but what if I'm at work? School? Library? Friend's house? Just can't be bothered to install a game I don't play? By your logic, we wouldn't use things like newspapers, radio, and TV for sports."

Again, that doesn't make any sense at all, because you got dedicated PROFESSIONALS who work at newspapers, radio and tv for sports, not some random people who have other things to do, like I said. You expect that these people make vods, just because you are at work or school. That's fucking nuts, as if I should make sure people like you can watch quake at any given time. How exactly is that my responsibility? This professional sports media bullshit you bring on is completely different from the qw demo watching situation we have. But you know what, if you sent me some cash, I'll make you a demo, how about that? Get me a contract, with a nice healthcare package etc and I'll make some demos.

You can watch the games when you get home, that should be enough. But ofcourse it's not enough, and that's what I meant with 'spoiled brats', because it's never enough. Just because certain professional media stuff is out there you expect to have that everywhere from everyone. That's not a fair nor realistic expectation.

Instead of expecting vods, you can also put nquake on a usb-stick and watch demos wherever you go. It will run from stick just fine on most pc's, even office pc's. I tested that myself at work.


"You're completely ignoring the spectator side of the game, as if everyone who watches the game should also play it. If it weren't for the VOD feature of the GomTV Starcraft matches, I'm sure a lot less people would even bother keeping up with it. If your goal an increase in both players and spectators, you don't need to be making the entry into enjoying it a painful or out-of-the-way process."

It's not my goal to increase players and spectators at all. I actually did make videos, but as far as I'm concerned, the cyberteen gamer community is nothing but a bunch of spoiled brats, like I said. I don't want to make vods for them because I don't like them enough.

I rather let the game die with some old fashion dignity then to put up with the whining expectation of vods.

And you say it's such a hassle to watch a demo, but when it's time to get some illegal movies or software from the internet, nothing is hassle enough for these spoiled brats, right? Take a look at how much time people spent on that kind of stuff, just because they can get it for free that way. Well, qw demos actually ARE free, so why not take a few seconds to watch a demo?

Again, the support might be there, but the time it takes for the average amateur to make a video and upload it succesfully is still unacceptable for most people who also have other things to do. We aren't dedicated sports professionals who are PAID to make media stuff to watch. It's your argumentation that is flawed, not mine if you really think about it.

You quoted the part where I attacked your attempt to attack the quality of a VOD - the issue you are complaining about here was covered at the end of the post. Please try to read what you're responding to.

Again, that doesn't make any sense at all, because you got dedicated PROFESSIONALS who work at newspapers, radio and tv for sports, not some random people who have other things to do, like I said. You expect that these people make vods, just because you are at work or school. That's fucking nuts, as if I should make sure people like you can watch quake at any given time. How exactly is that my responsibility? This professional sports media bullshit you bring on is completely different from the qw demo watching situation we have. But you know what, if you sent me some cash, I'll make you a demo, how about that? Get me a contract, with a nice healthcare package etc and I'll make some demos.

Radio/tv/newspaper don't make money from sales, but from advertising. So does this place called 'the internet.' Even still, it's not about responsibility, it's about motivation. You clearly don't have any because the game doesn't matter to you - so you don't matter in this discussion, either.

You can watch the games when you get home, that should be enough. But ofcourse it's not enough, and that's what I meant with 'spoiled brats', because it's never enough. Just because certain professional media stuff is out there you expect to have that everywhere from everyone. That's not a fair nor realistic expectation.

It's completely fair and realistic in the real world. Did you completely miss the DRM issue? People don't like using proprietary software/hardware to enjoy their content. For spectators, using nquake is completely unreasonable. One of the biggest reasons that your game is dying is because it's just not worth the hassle to deal with. Again, it's not about charity or responsibility - it's about the promotion of the game.

Instead of expecting vods, you can also put nquake on a usb-stick and watch demos wherever you go. It will run from stic

Better yet, put it on youtube and I could not only watch it on any computer, I could even watch it on my phone! You're trying to justify your reasoning to a hardcore player, not to a casual, a new player, or a spectator. As such, you completely fail.

It's not my goal to increase players and spectators at all. I actually did make videos, but as far as I'm concerned, the cyberteen gamer community is nothing but a bunch of spoiled brats, like I said. I don't want to make vods for them because I don't like them enough.

So why are you complaining so much about something that others can and clearly WILL do? It seems to bother you a lot that others would even do it, despite your non-participation stance. Your teenage angsty misanthropic tantrum is amusing, if not moronic. You're actually trying to argue that it's a bad thing simply because you are opposed to the current people in the community that you don't like. Do you even hear yourself? Did you read a single thing I said about bringing NEW players in, or even simply making it easier on someone who would like to watch the game, but doesn't want to play it?

I won't even ask for compensation for educating you on the subject, as I'm happy to school you for free. Maybe you could learn such kindness and pass it on to the QW community!

"You quoted the part where I attacked your attempt to attack the quality of a VOD - the issue you are complaining about here was covered at the end of the post. Please try to read what you're responding to."

I figured this was very relevant statement of yours because it's something I've seen in the gaming community for a long time - the comparison with pro, physical sports. If you refer to that stuff, then I don't see why I can't hook in on that.


"Radio/tv/newspaper don't make money from sales, but from advertising. So does this place called 'the internet.' Even still, it's not about responsibility, it's about motivation. You clearly don't have any because the game doesn't matter to you - so you don't matter in this discussion, either."

Like I said, I HAD motivation because I DID make some vidoes, including on youtube. But the more and more I understood the mindset of the current young gamers, the less I wanted to do be part of it.

I personally don't think that modern gaming is such a good thing for humanity at all and see how people can get lost in it. I don't want it to be taken seriously as a 'sport' therefore, because... gaming was never was supposed to be that if you ask me. That's just what some people, like fatality wanted it to be, but again, I think it's a bad development for humanity and I hope it never succeeds. So indeed, I'm not supporting it, I'll just watch a qw demo now and then for fun, cause I personally had lot's of fun with that game, which was the reason to play, for fun.



"It's completely fair and realistic in the real world. Did you completely miss the DRM issue? People don't like using proprietary software/hardware to enjoy their content. For spectators, using nquake is completely unreasonable. One of the biggest reasons that your game is dying is because it's just not worth the hassle to deal with. Again, it's not about charity or responsibility - it's about the promotion of the game."

I don't even know what DRM is, pal, and I'm not ashamed for it either. I'm not into all that cyberslanged nonsense. DRM sounds like some wangsta rapper on drugs to me.

I hardly visit this site, it's only because a qw thingy was posted that made me land on this page and reply here. On top of that, I don't think the game is dying (at least not fast) because, last time I checked, you can still play it every day, at least in europe and there ARE new people coming in. But ofcourse, it can never be so popular as some other games out there. Not because of bad promotion, but because it's a hardcore game that is extremely hard to learn. Without practicing I can install Q4 right now and be top 3 on public servers at the UK Jolt server. I actually have done this, so I know it's true. It's like that, because I've played qw and have an advantage over non-qw players because it's such a fast hardcore game, much harder then other quakes. At first, even though I was an reasonable quaker who could make at least some kills in other quakes, I could only spawn and die in QuakeWorld. That's it. I then had to spectate for months and watch DEMOS to learn what the hell all this was about. That's why it's not that popular, because it's too hard for most people and too old fashion, including maps that aren't clipped out so you can get stuck easily and stairs instantly kill your straferun....which all sucks if you're not used to it (coming from q3 for instance). And there's more of these things I could write about, which would probably put off a lot of players.


"Better yet, put it on youtube and I could not only watch it on any computer, I could even watch it on my phone! You're trying to justify your reasoning to a hardcore player, not to a casual, a new player, or a spectator. As such, you completely fail."

Oh there we go again, 'so you can watch it on your phone'. I....no...I'm not even going to rant again. But let's just say that I think people would be better of if phones could only be used for making a call.

And I don't think in terms of 'win' or 'fail', I just have a different view on all this and think it's all going in the wrong direction with all this technology and expectations. Fuck cell phones, it only means that now people expect you to be available wherever you go.


"So why are you complaining so much about something that others can and clearly WILL do? It seems to bother you a lot that others would even do it, despite your non-participation stance. "

Why are you so confident about vods being made? That only happens now and then, certainly not for all matches. Perhaps 1% of all demos at challenge-tv have been 'vodded', probably less. And yes, I think people aren't worth the vod's and it's probably better for them if they are not constantly able to focus on a computer game wherever they go.


"Your teenage angsty misanthropic tantrum is amusing, if not moronic. You're actually trying to argue that it's a bad thing simply because you are opposed to the current people in the community that you don't like.
Do you even hear yourself? Did you read a single thing I said about bringing NEW players in, or even simply making it easier on someone who would like to watch the game, but doesn't want to play it?"

I think I'm pretty much spot on on that teenage, cyber-slanged, whining attitude here. In fact not just here, but over the globe. I can see what gaming, and modern technology for that matter, does to lot's of young people and I think it's going in the wrong direction. I think gaming in general has become too big and people put too much time into it and take it all way to seriously. I mean they even want game on their phones...what the hell.... Why would you want that? So you can play a game while taking a dump? Don't you see how sad that is and how our minds are more and more being controlled by technology addiction? What the hell is good about that? Don't even answer, cause you'll come up with some excuse because that's what you do, rather then to understand the importance of what I'm saying here. This whole materialistic, gaming, expectation-fueling thing is a bad, bad movement, and I don't want to be part of it.


"I won't even ask for compensation for educating you on the subject, as I'm happy to school you for free. Maybe you could learn such kindness and pass it on to the QW community!"

I have no kindness to whiners at this point indeed. Other people in the qw community would probably be more kind then I am at this point. That's the effect that such a community has on me - I'm a nice guy in real life, but this crap brings out the worst in me and I've generally seen competitive gaming brings out the worst in other people as well. The more gaming will be compared to pro sports, the worse the effect gaming will have on people, because the emphasis isn't placed on having fun anymore.

That was my final statement, and you better remember it, because you're all going to need it.