lol name

they like to point out the obvious

talking about the obvious: You're covering some too ey? Or maybe you leave your phoquing biber burg, get the german TDM scene going and attend!

i wont be active again. i only play random duels now.

random vs random :(

amen to that my brother! :D

Well that's an issue :(

Maybe make each cup on a different day? Not everyone is available on tuesday ...

i agree..

sigh. I didn't post my proposal for nothing. Too late now. Besides, I want the same bazillion teams to play actively in each cup, so I didn't want to ask them to be avaiable on random days of the week. Tuesday it is. Please make it, somehow!

Well, i posted a comment in that proposal post.. That i can't play on tuesdays, i'm one of the few active TDM'ers.. But i can not play on tuesdays every week, only from 22

its not that i dont give u props for this idea.. i do actually but i have soccertraining every tuesday

my clan cant play on tuesday.
Ssince i am sure we could play on another day that's why i asked :)

wire anticheat support pls, we can play cups on n+1 site.

Not possible due to QL being a browser game.

nice, any plans for ctf?
maybe a monday cup? :)

Could be, though WE NEED MORE ADMINS.

nice event, depressing name

Not depressing at all. It's to point out that the new, active generation of players has the chance to get the cool cups back. All it needs is activity/stability. Kind of what frs said: http://www.esreality.com/post/2227998/#pid2227998

oh i don't disagree at all with the reason behind the cup, just saying it could have been named with something more uplifting :)

it sounds a bit like "we are dying please play the game", which is true and depressing, but usually a bad marketing method.

rl situation would be like entering a fair for your product and name your stand "we are going bankcrupt need sales!"

Works for me! :D

Well here's the news: Especially in community driven projects a marketing method called friggin HONESTY can actually work.

If a company is so desperate they try to sell you something as simple as a toothbrush or a gaming gaming keyboard by making it look as if they found the blueprints in Roswell, and if you buy that... more power to you! That's not how I roll. This community can be fine if it stops being shit, and this whole thing is to make them aware of that.

(Didn't mean to say you're shit, just explaining my intention here)

So how can I view teams that have signed up so far? ESL site is just as good as the community, eh? :D

I figured that having links for the attendents on the cup site would be a bit redundant once the first cup is over and the teams are in the rankings.
So you do it the "hard" way (lol): You click either one of the three links next to a cup and no matter where you end up then, you hit the "Members" button in that light grey navigation bar that tries to hide on top of the site. ;)

It's a "tabs bar" actually and I would call it that if its design wasn't so wrong.

Go to ESL Quakelive (Main-Page) -> Tournament Page (Click the banner) -> Click on the Cup Div 1 and 2 (at upcoming events) -> Members (i think, have the site in german, don't know what it is exactly in english) (4th Tab, lower bar)

nice but I dont get it, teams sign up in div1/div2 on their own, they even can play in both ?

Teams can only play in one division. It could be that you sign up for DIV2 and get seeded in DIV1, depending on the amount of teams and who signs up.

Let your common sense work and sign up in the division where you think you belong ^-^, but as mentioned, it could be that some teams are switched at the start of the tournament.

Great stuff. I'd like to see some TDM in the EMS.

I'm ready! :>

Wait, you're giving points for places 5-8 in a single elimination bracket of 16 teams?

Basically you're giving out the points at seeding stage.

The usual retardation that's the cancer of all online tournaments since the start of QL. "You're a bad team? Great, join this tournament because we need someone to get raped by a 10x better team in round 1!"

Usually the teams that get seeded last in one tournament, don't come back to play in next one. Remember 2010 with teams like PageUp Gaming or something? Those guys still play Quake, just don't enter cups after experiencing how they're played.

Read more columns here on ESR, some good thoughts about drafts and map pools on main page right as we speak! There were columns about different tournament structures too (round-robin+playoffs, double elimination, swiss system).

inb4 "it's one day cup, SE is fastest"

The series resembles the qualification cups for the TDM 4v4 EMS we had (If you got the intention behind this whole thing, you don't ask why).
There are two divisions so it's in a professional format but like EMS and EMS Amateur series if you will.
I hope teams will understand that this is to get cool events back, buck up and attend. I'm sure there will be exciting matches also in div 2 with low skilled teams.

P.s.: When I started off in Q3, I was glad to have a chance to play the big blokes and actually learn something. They wouldn't practice against us. And the old school uber pros only attending when there's prize money to win and otherwise refusing to let others onto their level by actively playing and practicing against them is one of the reasons why this community is damaged.

Oh, we'd play against colwn or Reason just to have this match in stats.

But playing against some mid-skilled team (seed 1 of div2 in this AMC = middle of div2 in HoQ if everyone signs up) that will brutally rape you anyhow... no fun and no prestige either :(

Which is why I really hope even more noob teams sign up, so we get seeded 9th or something, to win a map maybe. Seeded single elimination is retarded, period.

But what you've mentioned (and frs in his great post) is very true. But do we really think that we can get tox, zik and others playing outside of the only cup with money that this is intended to cause? Those guys are a lost cause and should be banned from entering potential EMS if they didn't play in ENC or this AMC, really...

rofl. You make a good point about SE and tournaments in general. Which is why hoqleagues is so great, since every team gets to play a bunch of games. But to ban players because they only play when they're motivated? You just can't be serious..

Think for a moment about other cups as qualification for the big deal. Everyone works hard the whole season, but then it's like some others get wild cards, and then they drop out anyhow because they still can't be arsed playing for money. See last EMS. All the good players dropped and we've been given a Zotac-grade final in the end. Someone needs to bitch-slap them, really.

Wouldn't a draft cup have more success? This would give all players the chance to show up. The way it is you are trying to recruit teams that are supposedly still out there. Leaves out guys like me who just do not have a team atm.

But it wouldn't be so long lasting, if you have regular teams competing, it probalby generates a more regular thing. This is the perfect time to create new teams...

I personally like drafttournaments as a 1day or weekend cups to generate interest and perhaps get clanless players into a more structured enviroment (tactics) so perhaps they get a bit more motivated to join an existing team or perhaps start a new one.

But for a stable and healthy community we need real teams for the leagues.

Ofc, but you said it yourself: draft leagues can bring in new players. Thats the biggest issue we have right now. We need to get people who would like to try TDM interested and, more importantly, to participate. And as this cup should not be about "who wins" but instead about "how many people play" asking for teams to form beforehand is not ideal.

there was a draft tourney just some weeks back?

Didn't catch that one then. Was it a success?

Yes, I agree with this.

I think a 'dream draft' tournament would spark some interest as well, if done correctly. Similar to the CTF one we had some weeks ago. But in general the TDM activity seems quite good right now!

Hoq has 40 teams playing for nothing.
Since they have more time to play around, matches rarely don't get played.

Now an ESL league with prizes and with a cup ending it with division crossover for the ultimate cup would be a grand scheme.

You could get all clans playing HOQ actually playing another match a week which could be managed as a double match day. They would be happy to have an opportunity to win some prizes. At the end you do a mini cup for each division and then a mini cup covering teams from div1-2/ div3-4. So team that are best in div 2 have a chance to play some div1 teams.

This would attract broadcasters to cover some div2 teams for a change, learn about new and uprising teams etc.

grand plan, right :D

I know teams get cup dates up front so they can clear out their schedule. Sometimes it's not that simple so teams that rely on players like goooda and or want ischju to play really can't get organized or replace 1st lineup to cover.

BW will play if i get my guys back on a tdm server ;D

Amazing how many people have this outrageous idea that tournaments create interest or activity among players. It's like thinking that if you put an idiot into a science laboratory, he will somehow become a genius scientist.
Competitions do little more than reflect current interest of players, they don't affect anything at significant scale.
People are saying that it's a chance for new teams to come to Quake and whatever, but it's just ridiculous dreams in parallel universe. Just think about the whole process of formation of completely new team up to the point where it can compete on at least medium level with current TDM teams. Imagine that you're a noob, have some noob friends, and that you got somehow interested in TDM and want to play as a team. How would you start getting yourself in shape to play on level with existing teams? If you think it all through, you will realize that current QL TDM community has NO mechanisms of involving new players whatsoever, more than that, it's actually repulsing them, provide nothing more than obstacles and annoyances.
For example, how can you expect new teams to arise if all practice they can get is maybe few games a week in which they just get raped by oldschool players?
If you want activity in TDM scene, then TDM scene needs to promote activity. First you need to tell people what's so great about TDM, make them interested. Organize show matches, record them with team speak, make thorough analysis, emphasize best moments, show to people where is the coollness in TDM. Then make some top player lessons, let new players at least have understanding that TDM is not impossible, that strategies can be explained, show them that there are concrete aspects of gameplay that can be practiced and improved, and which can lead them to top competition level. Then there should be players always available for games on IRC channels, there should be top teams willing to coach and train new teams, etc, etc. All those things of course require hard work and probably years of time spent, but it's those things that have potential of creating a healthy active community in which then good competitions will emerge. It's just not possible to be lazy, skip all those years of hard work of whole TDM community together, start at the finish with those few cups and expect that it will magically give rebirth to TDM.
tl;dr: Good competitive scene will emerge only as a culmunation of YEARS of hard work of WHOLE tdm scene together, it's won't get you anywhere if you skip all that work and start with making cups right away.

great post, would plus it if I could but I can't?

also europe still gets 30-40 teams in that league? thats fucking awesome.. I would be ECSTATIC beyond words if NA had 4 teams nevermind 40... FOUR... I just miss playing Quake =/
(TDM is quake, faggots)

HoQ has 40 teams, eurocup will have around the same, both IGL one day cups have been full (while ctf and ca have not). right now #tdmpickup has 385 people on it and it basicly runs 24/7 without glitches and its growing. its only that the pro's dropped out after DHS/DHW/QCon, but the actual community is doing better than ever. just imagine where the scene would be if the sponsors have picked different teams or the sponsored teams stayed around

just imagine where the scene would be if the sponsors have picked different teams

I'm wondering whether these sponsorships were deals for that one LAN tournament only or whether they were supposed to continue after DHS. Do you have any info on this?

In any case, I only see four sponsored European teams at DHS:
Reason Gaming
Serious Gaming
DengiOnline.com
dignitas

All the others travelled with their own money (metsu, 4kings, TA, action, xt, ...) or sponsored themselves (colwn), didn't they?

Four sponsored teams really isn't that much, and even more so if some of these sponsorships were DHS-only deals.


Don't get me wrong. It is really disappointing that almost everyone out of those 4 sponsored teams isn't playing in team tournaments anymore. But I'm not so sure if this has such a big impact on the QL TDM sponsorship situation as a whole.

It mainly impacts the rest of the teams / motivation.

We should not focus on money for this game :)

How would you start getting yourself in shape to play on level with existing teams? If you think it all through, you will realize that current QL TDM community has NO mechanisms of involving new players whatsoever, more than that, it's actually repulsing them, provide nothing more than obstacles and annoyances.

let new players at least have understanding that TDM is not impossible, that strategies can be explained, show them that there are concrete aspects of gameplay that can be practiced and improved, and which can lead them to top competition level.

Then there should be players always available for games on IRC channels

not sure if trolling, you heard of #tdmpickup and lvlup?

not sure if trolling, you heard of #tdmpickup and lvlup?

Let's imagine that I have a team and we gathered all today for a practice day. We want to practice a particular map (let's say Deep Inside), and plan to play 15-20 games.
Explain please, how should we use these channels to accomplish our goal?

you need to be realistic about some things. you cant expect that to happen on a daily basis in a scene like this. however having a regular practise team isnt unheard of, and finding games isnt THAT hard

I am realistic. The level that I'm talking about is what you need for active competitions when teams do not just give up seeing that it's impossible to beat their opponents, but look forward to next tournaments to try and overthrow them. Currently, even most active teams cannot train enough to not be pwned by just random mix of former top players (i.e. colwn). New teams have probably even bigger gap with current scene and just have no chance of entering the competitive scene if they have no ability to practice in such heavy regime.

(...) we gathered all today for a practice day. We want to practice a particular map (let's say Deep Inside), and plan to play 15-20 games.

Yeah, playing one map for ~8 hours on one day is a completely relevant scenario. Seriously, WTF?

You know a way of learning/mastering a map that doesn't involve playing it a lot of times?

you ll have to play the 15 maps of your enemy team as well, so make it 30/40 maps \o/

No, but that's not the point.

You don't need to play a map dozens of times with the same people in order to master it. You can just as well play a map a lot of times in pickup games etc.
Aim / movement / positioning / strategies can be learned in many ways. The possibilites are there.

I don't think that e.g. the current top2 hoq tdm teams (NEU and mamut) have played any map more than 5 times with exactly the same line-up.


One more thing: Please, try to gather 4 people who want to play Deep Inside for 8 hours on a single day. I guess you'll eventually realize that this scenario isn't relevant.

Possibilities are there? Of course.
Are new players going to bother? Nope. It's just not friendly enough environment for them.
My scenario is obviously irrelevant currently, and it's because TDM in general is irrelevant now. But many people in TDM community have the ambition to propose TDM as a major competitive mode, and, well, I'm just simply pointing out that if they want that to be actually achieved, they have to work their asses off and, among other things I said in post above, make the scenario I describe relevant too.

It's just not friendly enough environment for them.

So eventually that's your only argument?

A vague and useless assumption that
a) you can't back up with facts
b) nobody can really prove right or wrong.

"Not friendly enough environment". What a joke.

Thanks for wasting my time. Now I remember why I put you on the ignore list some years ago. Because you're not contributing anything. Putting you back onto it. :)

(p4r4 posting as Anonymous)
I'm really, really sorry, of course I am wrong and TDM's popularity grows at insane rate, every day new teams appear and rise to contend against the best and overthrow former legendary teams. There is absolutely nothing needed to be done. (<--- sarcasm, just in case you have difficulty interpreting things).
I don't see where we have an argument. I say that it's not possible for team just to designate some days for training and practice according certain plan, you agree with me, so where's that argument?
You just have to realize, that the effort to bring TDM back to life has to come from TDM players themselves, not from potential newcomers, because you haven't presented those newcomers with any demonstration of how cool TDM is and with any means of getting a straightforward start with it. You simply have given no reason for new players to find ways of practicing TDM, even if there are some.
I also don't understand what you want me to back up with facts? The obvious thing that TDM is the most unpopular mode? Well, just count the number of TDM games in your QL browser and compare to other modes, duh. It's kinda ridiculous that you even request proof for that.

Not gonna read any of this. Learn how to format your text.

You see, you can't even bother yourself to read poorly formatted text and yet you expect that players not currently in TDM scene will magically start with so much dedication that they will make effort to search for tiniest possibilities of practicing TDM.

I think its more a problem of the seperation from hardcore who use irc, esreality and stuff like that, and the softcore who just login to quakelive.

I think the tdm community is doing great as they are but its not easy to know how to reach the softcore.

What would really benefit is intervention from id. I mean advertisement and links on the QL MAIN page for league signups and upcoming streams of events. Of course the other thing is for id to actually use the built in clan system for on site leagues/cups.

As for people getting raped. Well this just isn't true. All you need is enough signups and the skill distribution will naturally even out. We used to have leagues of 6 divisions. Even the team at bottom of division 6 would not get raped every game. Cups are not as good for new clans because they don't get to progress over the season and the they don't have the goal of getting promoted; the only goal is the impossible - to win the whole cup.

We'll play as well

clans are dull, unless its colwn vs reason. bye!!

have you ever been in a clan? or are you just one of those weird people that spectate and don't play?

related how

just trying to make sense of your strange statement

so wouldnt it be simpler to ask me why i think that, if u really are 'trying to make sense of your strange statement'

I'll simplify it even more for your feeble mind: was your statement from the pov of a fan/spectator or a quake player? Not that I even really give a shit, just always weirds me out when i hear people say clanning is boring... anyway go back to your streams weirdo :p

so in reality, your whole intention with this was to point out that im 'weird'. liar, i do believe your pants r on fiar

need help signing up. ur website sux.