Which abilities are crucial to be a good TDM player? What's the difference when you compare it to 1on1?

Juven1le: The ability to destroy the four green men running around on the map. *smiles*

bab: The ability to hide and watch Juven1le destroy the four green men running around the map.

:)

haha

why no mention of Jaz =/ wasnt he in their team?

for the love of god please dont mix up ctf and tdm teams

cheater boys don't wanna talk about the bro that got caught

+1

"because he's like a new toxjq."

new tox? lmao what a joke

ye if possible then krysa would be the new toxic imho

watched few demos of this guy. he plays bad, but score somehow always +40 :)) maybe he just look bad. gl.

then start tdm, dont look bad like him and rape metsu?

my words are good about him :)
He just doesn't look IMPRESIVE, but somehow he managed to get SICK +NET.

then name me an active tdm player that u think is more impressive (and why that is) than the keyplayer of the best tdm team with nice nets and very agressive, yet flexible gameplay that suits the offensive style of team metsu

not trying to troll you.. but i find zeroql & juven1le awesome to watch and am interested why you think otherwise

lol, you're so in love ! :)

do you think its the right moment for me to confess? <3

ok fuck it.. ofc i was exaggerating to troll guard. why would i even claim otherwise

videoexample isthebest example

half reason and 4k

forgot fnatic

they'r more a bunch of duellers ain't they?
maybe linkin is a great ctf player but I think deus is the only pure-tdm player
the others are just, way skilled, duel players

didnt linkin recently say that he prefers tdm over ctf?

purri

krysa

linkje

??

not close enough

Definitely not close enough.

After all, each one of those listed are only good enough to carry their team over half the times they play

see.. zeriton agrees

Don't think you got the post

actually you didnt get mine dude

atleast 10 players LOOKS better from gameplay, but with such +net you can count on one hand.

in tdm there is net ( heavily linked with the weapon/armor/powerups you eat) and damage delivered/talen.

I prefer to rely on this stat than the net sometimes

While failing to realise its essentially the same stat.

Obviously people who eat more armor and or guns/powerups will deal more dmg since they can afford to move out and search for enemies ..

also, apparently "damage dealt" is the damage you could have potentially dealt with the shots you fired, whereas "damage taken" is the damage you have actually taken.

No, it's actual damage delivered.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2035164

essentially the same stat ?

Say, a player like spartie often shows a negative net while having a very good damage given/taken ratio, and dying a couple times isn't that damageful if you were able to potentially take out a lot of health from the enemies stacks...

the proverbial exception

hence why I said 'sometimes' in my initial post.

qed

Ah the ever working way to avoid saying you might actually be wrong
i see

yeah

:DD

Which abilities are crucial to be a good TDM player? What's the difference when you compare it to 1on1?

- Juven1le: I put up my hacks, and it does everything for me

Down to earth guy despite his impressive performances at almost every official game. Good luck to metsu, one of the only teams not to take gaming so serious and yet reach the top. Always nice to see teams playing for fun with such an irreproachable behavior.

FAKE

FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE
FAKE FAKE FAKE
FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE
FAKE FAKE FAKE
FAKE FAKE FAKE
FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE

looks to me like a desperate try to improve juveniles image.

"WROLOLOL I PLAYED 1800 TDM GAMES, PROBLEM?!"

hmmm.... 1,692 at quakelive.... well...

i hope juvenile will not be jaz 2.0

since when does juvenile has a bad image? just because some people randomly started to bring him up in the jaz thread? please (check the comments in the interview i died in october for example, not one negative mention of anything)
maybe there is something i am unaware of but so far i had the impression that most people were rather impressed by his play and thats it, no drama, just someone having fun playing tdm and being good at it. and he is going to play on lan soon anyway.

and why do mention the "I got around 1.800 TDM games"? (not even asking why you decided to make it look stupid). whats wrong with mentioning that you played a lot when being asked about his game?

and what exaclty seems deperate in this interview?

what is see is people randomly jumping on the bandwagon of a few envious fools tbh

sounds like your reciting the walter saga ;)

although he was absolutely awesome at hyping it all up :D

[...] i died in october for example, not one negative mention of anything

RIP Nukm, 1986-2010.

:D

*did

People have been suspecting Juven1le of cheating for quite a while now, I remember accusations/suspicions in closed circles from before I took a pause from QL, which was around August 2010.

Not that I'm saying he does or doesn't, just recollecting.

Say me who Foppa didn't suspect in cheating?..

interesting, well i dont judge about what people discuss in closed circles but it should stay private until people investigate and come up with something solid to back it up and go public.
cause a witch hunt where people throw shit around, put hidden accusations and references without any reasoning into every comment is bad for everyone, not just juven1le, it hurts his team, tdm and the whole community. (not about you, just a general statement)

If I look at all the previous cheating scandals, Div1 players generally don't openly talk about someone cheating until they have some sort of specific footage to show that looks highly suspicious. But because they do share suspicions with one another, I'm guessing the rumors water down to some random people who eventually say it out loud because "they heard someone say he cheats". It's like a telephone game.

He's gonna be on LAN soon @DH Summer..should clear the air I guess :)

damn whiners. catch him if he cheats but until then just shut your mouth up and enjoy his performance.

meh will this ever stop :X

20:30:14 @noctan | Juven1le IS the best player in the world atm

you just hit a new low

Actually, mick05 hit a new low by locking the comments on that thread :P

i'd say faking comments is lower

24:59:14 +NOCTIS_ | I think DM6 should be brought back to duel

*tdm

??

whats so hard to understand, i never said what fooki wrote

Gotcha!

LoL what about that pb guy`????

Yeah, he looks really suspicious

hi juvenile

hi dlx

:))

ye, very odd tracking and fixed LG %acc ( :):):):) )

look at smogii !

zeroql about bab:
"bab is really emotional sometimes. He's my new flash. I don't want to lose him."

^^

during the first Nations Cup I was nervous when we had to play UK. After many more games I installed my hacks I just don't pay attention anymore.

1800 games to get good at this mode lol

If your not an oldschooler and even if you are, thats the amount needed to have a chance at becoming EC quality :)>

he is trolling and juven1le was prolly better after 20 games than he will ever be, so ....

yeah he must be soooooo talented

lmao

no offence, but you have really small, if any, talent in quake.

No offence but im too old to care mate

Im just saying that 1800 duels would not be enough to compete at high lvl and this only prooves that team modes in quake are ez

1800 tdm games = 3600 duel games

my willy = 9999999999.9 duel games

if u count time spend yeah but again 3600 duels are nothing

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/statistics/razerburnedd

600 duels and he won some zotacs.

are u rly that dumb?

oh look

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/statistics/Cypher

1000 duels and he is the most amazing player in the world whoaaa

now thats some talent!

3600 duels are nothing

so you're comparing cypher -- who's been playing Quake for years -- too burnedd, who didn't touch any quake games before QL and is 15?

good job. :D

u either dont understand or dont want to understand

//

or maybe you're unable to express yourself?

with some talent and dedication, burnedd managed to win against (semi-)pros with less than 3600 duels experience, while you have played 3800 and won... shit?

Also, cypher definitely has played more than 4000 duels, so I don't see how that's a fitting comparison.

seriously man ;D that cypher comment was sarcrastic heeheh u 1st grade that u dont understand sarcasm/irony or what?

first of all i played 2,5k duels not 3,8k

and please tell me do u actually believe that burnedd never played quake before and managed to beat pros online with them 3,5k duels played? come on...

#59 talked about 3800 duels and you didn't object.

ofcourse, the thought occured to me that the cypher thing could be intented as irony, but this would only mean that you've run out of proper arguments.


Edit:
Ok, just watched this and burned says at the age of 14, that he started playing quake 2.5 years ago, thus he probably was 12 back then.

After 5 months playing against bots, he played some OSP duels (probable age: 13), took a break for one year and came back to QL at the age of 14.

he talkeg about GAMES not DUELS and i dont care about anon retard comments sry

open your eyes mate this is all plain bs

ofc u can get good at dueling in one or two years by doing only this 8hours a day and this is what burnedd obviously did

u have to be very naive to believe he had close games vs strenx after 3800 duels played

ofc u can get good at dueling in one or two years by doing only this 8hours a day and this is what burnedd obviously did

u have to be very naive to believe he had close games vs strenx after 3800 duels played

so you're telling me that burnedd played a lot (3600 duels) for ~ one year, thereby became good enough to play close games against strenx BUT on the other hand, 3600 duels aren't enough to become this good?

Sorry, now you've lost me.

hahahah sorry but u re not very smart

u know what aliasing is?

do u realise some ppl play with their main nicknames only from time to time BECAUSE they want to look like very talented to their opponents? "like oh look i had a month break form quake and im even better now!!!"

do i have to paint this for you?

so being smart implies making assumptions about people aliasing without proof?

burnedd has won his first zotac in January, 2010 and started playing in June 2009.

That's half a year for praccing.

Even if we assume that he played the crazy amount of an average 4 hours of pure duels per day with some aliases, that's 180 x 4 = 640 hours = ~3700 duels.

...

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/statistics/burnedd

these 2800 don't count?

ah ok, I wondered whether he changed his account or got a new one. But "razerburnedd" was already registered in August 2009, so I figured 'what the hell'.

Anyway, 2800 + 600 = 3400 matches in total

This is still below the 3600 which should be less than "nothing" according to 7herm. ;)

600 hours of experience and practice is nothing, huh? Watch out guys, we're dealing with an expert, here.

afaik u need like 10k hours to get good at something mate

Yeah, like solitaire or cartwheels.

yep

top-level violinists have practiced 10k hours (Ericsson et al, 1993).
I don't think that's comparable to quake.

Although quite likely, there's no study on expert performance in first-person shooter games. ;)

Also quite interesting:

Chase and Ericsson (1982) have shown that with extensive practice (more than 200 hours) it's possible to improve one's memory performance for chess positions by more than 1,000%.

This _could_ be comparable to stuff like enemy awareness and prediction in quake.

Ive heard the 10k number concerning youth footballers aswell.

It's a general rule people came up with, that is 10k hours to get good (your max) at anything. You be the decider if it's true or not.

well you have played 3864 games and you are still shit..

im playing duels mate not some ez point and shoot modes like tdm

If it's so easy:

#tdmpickup
!add tdm

lawl. can you still pass through doors with a head that big? or maybe that's why you're stuck in your bedroom and played 3800 games :)

;)

good read

only thing i know about juve is he played ctf before and tdm with evo, and now the always bitter mute says how is it possible for div3 guy to become top tier player in 4 months. :D

mute's words, not mine. he's starting the witch hunt again! :D

might have something to do with the 1800 games, but who knows, maybe cheating is just so much fun that he found new motivation to play so much, sounds likely!

The always bitter mute should also have told you that his tdm team played close matches and lost a couple of times to that so called div 3 team (that at least managed to _attend_ the last EC), that juv played in those matches and that even only by those matches we did against faces, there was a steady learning curve in juv's play.

It was I who found this unpolished diamond, Juven1le, on a public tdm server and brought him into competitive TDM. Yes, evo isn't a high skilled team BUT I and others in my team have plenty of experience from Q3 TDM.
Please stfu with your cheater bs and consider this:

1.) The learning curve you get when someone with decent knowledge introduces you to the game is very different to the one the oldschoolers had when they started -- from scratch and without help, in a new game.

2.) The learning curve of someone who was literally born with a mouse in hand, who has played CS on a high level from early teen age on, who starts playing Quake already knowing about all the fps and hz stuff and how "it feels right" (you experienced players know what I'm talking about) is different to someone who starts gaming from scratch with QL TDM.

3.) Some call it luck, some call it talent but there is something that has an effect on who we are, what kind of player, what style, what decisions. And there are some people, with or without experience, who tend to generally make good ingame decisions.

4.) Last but not least, someone please make the effort to count all demos uploaded directly by the players on ESR, ESL, CB,... I am sure Juven1le will be the guy with most uploaded demos within the high skill ranks. If he has something to hide, he is reeeeally stupid, uploading demos, always inviting others to spec his praccies &ct.

Think. Think again. Watch dreamhack. Then talk.
Thank you!

you must be on a high level of retardation tho, i never accused him of anything, i just quoted/tried to quote mute's words.

yep I was talking about mutes statements that you referred to and to all the ppl who generally consider juv a cheater. wanted to clear up the situation.

I know you merely quoted, sorry if you feld addressed too much by my reply.

My reputation is awesome!!!

lol its ridiculous, we can see you play at least twice a week on stream and its obvious there are no hax involved

many of the accusations are just ego/emo rage

there are people out there who can tell from just one rail, be careful my friend

Looking forward to hearing from those people

Fat chance.

ba dum tshhhh.

0% insight 100% cheaterboy

hi mute.

We just need more "Anonymous"-comments with cheat-stuff, pls. tired...

Gotta say the extent he dominates is kinda strange but i guess it is not impossible for a " prodigy" to arise in ql.

50/50 on this one kinda

50/50? seriously?
because of what? because he got good?
dont you think on his site are a competitive background, hundreds of demos and vods, mates who saw him progress and soon to be lan play to back him up...

and i dont even wanna get on his side cause i have not checked his games or seen him play and progsss hat much but i hate he uneducated witchhunt that is going on. its bad for everyone, him, his team, sponsors looking into tdm, the atmosphere of this community... i just want people to be reasonable but i guess that is asking too much.
hope juven1le doesnt get frustrated by all this and keeps enjoying the game

*side ;)

Still, people should leave him be at least until DH.

in the end LAN is the only thing that matters for 2 reasons: hacks free and most people are online heroes only, so strangely they are worse under the best conditions possible. There's an obvious interaction between both so don't be surprised if he under performs.

now things would get tricky if he or any other suspicious guy doesn't attend.


*i have not seen a single video of him playing. I'm just contributing with more e-drama for the only big tdm lan in years.

under the best conditions possible.

lan = best connection (at least in theory, in practice there have been so many problems aswell) and equal conditions.... thats far from the "best conditions"
different monitor, table hight, etc and stuff like noise, camera flashes (and usually more pressure aswell) have a very different impact on players

He's obviously innocent untill proven guilty.

However around 10 years of experience at top level quake kinda made me sceptical towards new people coming from seemingly nowhere.

One has to ask the question, if he's this good at quake why did that talent not shine in cs (where it could have made him waaaay more money for his time)

I guess Juven1le needs to perform at DH to get rid of these cheating accusations. If toxjq never played on LAN you can bet people would consider him a cheater as well.

strenx cheats!!!!! :)

actually quite a few people used to say that before he did pretty well at lans

anyone have some youtube vids of juvenile in action. I cant be bothered to download his demos etc

check the ems, ec or esh vods

wait till after DH. I dominated cpm ctf for 6 years then they banned me accusing me of cheats.. still yet to see some proof :o)

Well I think that Juvenile is using wallhack switching it on and off. I am a human tho, and might be bad on this one, if thats the case and he performs on the same level on DH I will be sorry of course.

I have no solid proof, just the way I didnt have any in the yuka case.
It is extremly hard to prove that an experienced fps player is cheating, cause they know the dos and donts. I am not 100 percent sure, just had the weird feeling when playing against him. Thats all.

I find it strange that there are more high skilled teamers who came to the same conclusion and they did that on their own. I dont have time to chichat about some danish guy cheating in a fast paced mod.

Besides this isnt personal, there are other danish people out there whom I dont like in particular but play superb and I never accused them with anything.

maybe the weird feeling originates from the fact that he reads you will and also plays better than you. seriously, these cheat accusations must stop. this is getting retarded, really.

did you say the same about jaz?

nope

First of all I dont give a shit about him or anyone else playing better in a game I dont play regulary. Second thing is everything you say in this topic can be treated as a joke, since you played with a cheater in a team for months (? ). To be honest you are like a disney character in my eyes making fun of yourself.

My weird feelings arise when people jump ahead of me from nowhere hitting me exact in the face tho they didnt hear or see me. Thats my opinion, and well it wont change till I see him performing on a lan.

good to know. let me be micky mouse then. btw unlike 1v1 i dont play vs my mates therefore it is really hard to judge whether some cheats in my team or not - also the ppl that were suspicious (even before he finally got caught) did not tell me anything because they thought i was on good terms with jaz (which i was). so, basically for me it was a surprise. juv, sides, tua nobody saw it coming. trust me. i dont even know why i try to defend myself. but u just believe what u do and be happy.

I'd pull these ears!

I think the world is flat, the universe is 100000 km wide and the government is controlled by ants.
I base this on nothing but a gut feeling and have no evidence what so ever. But we are many ppl. that believes this, so it must be true.

Like the rest of ESR I am expert in scientific / logical methods and can deduce my own conclusion without having anything substantial. Yeah I'm that good.

stop trying to change the subject, cheater boy

you my fine sir just proved my hypothesis.

He's right, ridiculing it makes you look more guilty

Although you probably aren't

lol when have ppl accused me? (except foppa and lvl guys who accuses everyone) this is getting kinda epic.
so when ridiculing ppls retarded logic I am guilty of cheating.
If I ridicule your broken logic does that make me guilty x 2?

"lol when have ppl accused me? (except foppa and lvl guys who accuses everyone) this is getting kinda epic."

Nobody on lvlup accused you so why are you suggesting otherwise, that's somewhat weird.

As for accusing "everyone" thats pretty laughable, name some.

"He's right, ridiculing it makes you look more guilty"

dunno about lvlup, but nvc was saying stuff about adam having a weird aim, its just high sens

A lot of high sens aim can look weird but that's hardly calling someone a cheat.

ye but he also said "he plays like jaz", i think there's a vod of it
edit: should be, it was the UK vs NL game

Hmm ok I don't remember that but I probably wasn't listening to the stream the whole time, can only recall him saying his LG was weird at some point.

CB EC game lvlup casted ?

I dont think does words ever came out of his mouth, only thing i remember being said was "his mouse movement looks so odd, i cant even watch his pov" (which is true)

"Plays like Jaz" meant the role adam_ was in afaik.

the "lvl" reference was perhaps the wrong reference to use.
But when playing CA, the cheat "announcement" from some UK based players, are used more then normal. But its still like 1% of the foppa accusations, so I might have over sold the sentence.

So lvl players from the UK.. ie me, vor, nvc? Never accused you.

It will either go like this

10 and more people will watch over his shoulder and giggle and comment on every mistake he is doing. He won't perform well under the pressure => LOLOLOLOL FUCKING CHEATA I KNEW IT

or

he plays a decent game => well this doesn't say that he isn't using haxxxxx online TROLOLOLO

He is fucked either way and I feel sry for him.
Most of the accusers can't stand the fact that someone got better in a short amount of time than themselfs and doesn't need 6 years of playing. Pathetic retards.

as hes supposedly an experienced LAN competitor from CS then hardly that kind of stuff will get to him?

Epic troll thread

Not so bad actually...

Threads failing to deliver lately indeed