write this after your vo0 game?

Heard he got beat quite badly, still doesn't change the fact that ql is a piece of shit.

is vo0 praccing?

I wouldn't know m8

the scores look bad but the man was purposely running into him with no weapons :p

Was rape again, the next day

DMOES OMG?

No, during lol

delay the spawn?

1st vid is rofl also they sayed that changed ql respawn system to a BETTER one.. crying
2nd vid is a rofl too
3rd u r walter and also cheaters cant claim
gg

haha, you're pretty skilled to produce this stuff(the spawn), pretty funny stuff, hope they fix it :(

.

u dont get it do u

.

He was just pointing out that it didn't get much better after all.

I enjoy the element of spawn rape but that's definitely over the top. Should just go back to Q3's system imo. Now I know that many people stilll find that too easy to abuse so make it based on location of death/corpse at least.
Ah well, has been talked over a million times..

gold

That was even worse than qw. You'll never get shit like this with ktx spawn system or even older spawn systems. LOL.

A dm2 duel comes to mind (with reppie I think) with one of the guys respawning like 8 times in a row at low YA.

Yeah I remember. There are 2 spawns at low ya and 2 at ng/water. So 4 spawns. It was nothing like this video. I don't think you can spawn at the same spot twice.

looks fine to me :>

pro skillz :D

Hooney mode

this happens once in a million times. usually its 2 in a row tops.

the "stair" thing is apperently a big problem for the engiene.. i talked to ix about it when i was active in cpm scene, apperently its possible to change it but then you get through walls damage like the good old days ;)

I'm new to quake so i dont know much about the old days, but could you or someone shed some light on through wall damage and why it was removed?

To me it sounds like a great feature and also very useful for preventing camping with a rail gun behind a wall and other lame shit like that.

try to get some old Quake3 T4 demo's - if you allow damage through surfaces you negate positional height advantage. I.E. it's better to be on the platform below, where you can spam rockets into the roof, than to have the traditionally stronger higher ground.

And that's the point, aren't you bored with the "traditional map strategy" ?

thruwalls gives lots more possibilities and funny things like blind frags which actually requires decent map knowledge.
It also helps preventing rail campers from hiding themselves too much.
First one who argues about "realism" of rocket explosions in Quake... may God strike you dead :>

Think carefully about what the implications would be of changing the upper ground from the strong position to the lower ground. Noteable areas: ZTN gl vs rg, ZTN bottom YA vs RL, DM6 RA vs bridge, DM13 RA, t9 MH, all of t7. Why do you think items are usually placed low on maps?

usually... traditional... meh :>

At least damage through stairs should be fixed as it is very frustrating. In that 2nd vid, walter is coming from the very upper ground yet his rocket does not register as a hit.

Total thruwalls is just a matter of opinion after all. To me, there is one positive side that outbalance any other negative ones : boost RL usage in a hitscan dominated game :°

RL is fine tbh.

Fast projectile (for the vq3/ql pace), large splash & high dmgs (100 afaik, which means
75-80 pretty often, with splash). RL is for close (to mid) range & spam, it's not meant
to counter rail @ long range for example. If you're a rocket whore, then you have to "use
your brain" to get close, and if you're too lazy to "think" to set up a trap or whatever,
then take the plasma and +forward with spam+dodges. I have to agree that it won't
work @ ztn for example, but that's not cuz of the RL, that's cuz of the way it's played nowadays
+ the fact that it's really easy to hide, escape + pixel rail @ ztn.
But still, if you look at rapha for example, you can clearly see that his LG isn't top notch
(if you compare to cypher's one) but his rox are one of the best you could find for a top
player (equivalent to cypher's ones imo ;D).
Really it depends on the situation & maps. It's not like in QW for example were rox are
clearly the best choice in almost any situations (with LG and maybe nades). I think it's
a good thing, cuz as much as i like QW, i think it's a bit too much +forward only for my
taste (and i didn't say "okay let's +brainless+forward with rox for 50 mn to win", don't get
me wrong). Sure QL could be less +back&pixel rail only, but still, i think that you can
find pretty much every style of playing. Soz, making RL dmg through floors wouldn't be
a good idea in this game.

Can be workaround pretty easy. What I did in wsw was simply offsetting the impact point a small fraction of a unit along the impact plane normal. In stair cases this means the center of the explosion has a better angle to not be blocked by small obstructions as stair steps. The missing impact can theorically still happen if hitting on the very corner of the 2 sides of the step, but I've never seen it happening since this change.

It also makes that when a player is on a higher platform, and you shoot to the vertical side of that plat, near of the upper border, the splash can hit the player if he's also on the border.

well thats good news. too bad no one seems to care in q3/ql community :)

do it ! or stfu

? the players care, devs dont

thats what i meant

jal please do apply for iD :D

that's not "working around", it's just "pushing the brokenness around". we do something similiar ** in cpma, and osp, (and have done since the 1.17 days), and ql does as well.

you can't have it both ways. either a "wall" provides cover, or it doesn't.
the best you can manage is a "balanced" brokenness that makes eg the "stair" cases less common without making eg the "dm6 bridge" cases laughably bad, but even when the shots in those two cases are identical (say, 8u below the horizontal surface), players have different expectations of what "should" happen - ie they want to still get damage on the stairs, but throw tantrums if they get damaged on the bridge.

cpma is "precise" about it, and backsteps very little (sub-unit, like you say wsw does, though that claim doesn't fit AT ALL with "never seen it happening", since some trivial trig can prove that even on 8u steps it makes VERY little difference (assuming you hit the face of the step)). cpma's take on the cases where this is relevant is that either you have a non-trivial positional disadvantage (dm6 bridge) and shouldn't get freebies when the "right" answer is for you to aim better; or you have a small positional disadvantage (stairs) where, again, aiming better, or in most cases, simply aiming "smarter", will still get you hits - but again, your inferior strategic play should not be negated by the code being overly imprecise.

osp and old versions of cpma are MUCH looser about splash, and backstep by a pretty large amount. players "like" it on stairs, because it results in even mediocre shots counting as hits (see the rage from a few years ago when cpma tightened up on this :P). they like it a lot less when their PERCEPTION of the situation is different simply because the "block" they're on is much larger than a step, even if the SHOT is only barely "too low".

--

** the big difference is that you back off by the normal, rather than the trajectory. this is wrong, period, and produces horribly unintuitive "hits" when the shot is nearly parallel to the plane, eg dm6 bridge from below ya. of course, it's ALL wrong at the end of the day :P, but by-plane is inferior in both cases, making "stairs" hits, which you "want", less likely; and "bridge" hits, which you don't, more likely.

Not a single complaint in Warsow since the change, and that's years. My method works, and I challenge anyone to proove the opposite.

What you say was done since 1.17 was also done in Q2 gamecode, and also didn't work. Being "precise" with blocking explosion impacts is a nonsense. Explosions aren't precise. All we can do is tune the damage bleeding so it feels as good as possible.

EDIT: I want "side of bridge" hits, of course. They hit just right.

Can't you jsut makes the steps as slopes?

That would fix it right?
Who cares if they don't feel like steps, slopes are much nicer to play on anyway as they give you more control.

EDIT: I replied you as talking about wsw since you were replying me, but I guess you were refering to Q3, there the edit. I don't see the point of making them slopes (and it's mapper decission anyway) since the "fix" is a couple of lines, and the problem can occur even at decorative steps as it does at ztn mega.

> Not a single complaint in Warsow since the change

that's not even remotely the same thing as "actually works 100% of the time", for any definition of "works". it's better than doing nothing, sure. it's also provably worse in the stairs cases than either of the methods cpma has used, given the results you say you want - but it's better for how you want the bridge case to act, and if that's an acceptable trade for you then it's the right trade for you to make.

> My method works, and I challenge anyone to proove the opposite.

please. a monkey could prove that there are cases where it doesn't, let alone someone as smart as you. if you cbf to do the math, just draw a few pictures.

it's obviously good enough for your needs, which is what matters, but don't confuse yourself (or pretend) that it's absolutely robust on stairs etc, especially when it isn't even the most robust scheme FOR those cases.

> All we can do is tune the damage bleeding so it feels as good as possible.

yes, that was pretty much my point... :)

we prefer "tighter" splash than you, but we like to emphasise positional advantage more than most games, so that's hardly surprising. your preference for "loose" splash is more "accessible" and rewards better pixel aim more than position. either is fine, it's just a matter of which suits your goals/players more.

As long as you consider standing on stairs a positional advantage you're correct. ;)

Side of bridge hits don't remove the positional advantage of being upwards. Don't confuse it with thrufloors, it's nothing like that. All it does is making the player more careful of avoiding rockets while showing on the edge (something he should be doing anyway). May reduce that advantage around a 5% of the total, not more.

one stair, no. many stairs, yes. :)

the breakpoint is actually pretty interesting. cpma is more likely to splash for height disadvantages up to 40, ie 5 "typical" steps, and for essentially all height advantanges. wsw is more likely to splash once the disadvantge is more than that. (it's really about the angles rather than the heights, but...)

our behavior is definitely the one WE want, but it may actually be the one you want as well. i think players are much more tolerant of not getting splash on cases like the bridge than they are of not getting splash on the "essentially-even" ground of a handful of steps. i dunno. still, it's worth (re)considering.

(you could even do something disgusting that would actually net you the "most likely to splash" version for both cases, but yeah, it'd be pretty foul. :P)

the main problem with the spawn system is, that the maps currently played were not designed for it. new maps which are designed with this specific spawn system in mind might work a lot better.

wtb this

whats wrong with the first vid? seems fine to me.

little wannabe troll

oh no! you figured me out! youre so smart!

the q3 spawn system is still the best.

for those that don't know how it worked, it was predictably random. for example,

should player 1 die in sector A, he can only respawn in sector B or C - and where his body landed was the dictator of which sector he died in. this of course prevents spawning in front of a guy, and just gives a likelihood that they will spawn in either B or C. this is a much better concept. of course there are potential draw backs on maps that are small and have multiple teleporters like hubaeroq3, but it was never so easy to abuse as the ql spawn system seems to be. the meta-game is damaged a lot more by the spawn furthest, if you ask any good hubaero player they will agree that the spawns don't break the map at all and the severity of it can often be avoided.

in q3, on dm6, as fights often occurred at mega - should player1 successfully defend and take the mega, instead of chasing up an easy kill at LG on player2 retreating to YA, instead player1 would go for the RA (don't you just hate it when they spawn too closely when you are in control?). this is because, should player2 die at LG, he could spawn pillars, or he could spawn on one of the RA spawns which is more likely as there are more spawn possibilities there. however, if you account the current spawn system in QL, player1 can kill player2 and force him to spawn back at YA by jumping to SG quickly. ezmode. it means that you have to pick your fights and manage the map better in the old spawn system.

although i'm not an active dueller in ql, i've never been a fan of the 'spawn furthest' system, i have still seen it many times before. it was in q4 for quite a while for example, anyone remember the phrantic abuse? stand at low YA and shoot rockets to the RLRA spawn, nice.

The problem is you can MAKE your opponent spawn somewhere which messes with the gameplay on some maps. Another argument is that this encourages even further that SLIPPERY SLOPE concept - not sure who/when that came about but it has some valid arguments. going on the dm6 argument that i just proposed, this means that your opponent literally gets no breathing room to work with as he will get slaughtered at the lg with no detriment to the other players control. arqon tried to enforce spawn furthest when vq3 was first going to be used instead of osp, then he realised how broken it was in vq3 and changed it back straight away more or less after a few people began to complain.

so in short in my opinion,

pros of the old spawn system are:
more map management/control skill required
down player gets a little more breathing room

cons:
none? i would be happy for someone to highlight some, this method has been tested to death and noone ever complained about it

pros of spawn furthest:
easy for newbs to duel as less skill is required
i can't think of anything else

cons:
less skill required/abuse possible

to quickly talk about my claim that the "down player gets more breathing room in the old system" i would like to elaborate on that quickly. the trade off on getting a guy to spawn on the OTHER SIDE of the map away from the item which you were too clumsy to make sure you could get, is that the player who spawns on the other side of the map will have a much harder time breaking control and you are guaranteed your item. this is because he has to spawn on the other side with no chance to do anything. this is worth much much more to the player in control than getting a spawn frag or two. when you try to get spawn frags in the old system you are trading off time, health, and the possibility that the enemy spawns on your item just so you can get a couple frags.

/end

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFejOeRJDOU ?

stupid i.D. softare!!!!!!

I think the stairs thing made me litterally punch my monitor a couple times (and my desktop/keyboard many more than that) :/

.

Who care ? it works only versus newbies.

Just bring back the Q3 spawn system, it was funner, more fair, and looks more exciting too; you usually had to move around the map, not this stand in one spot for long-range sniping shit like QL.

And get rid of ranged-damage for the LG. It's like the one thing that almost everyone agrees on whether they be newbies or oldschool veterans, and id just ignores it.

weak.

second thing happens all the fucking time. i used to get it around the shard area in dm6 both with cpma and ql

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPGDVI_ivaI


I don't understand why id software doesn't fix this problem.
They could at least remove the ledges/holes/pavingstones from the maps.

rofl 1

haha,yeah thats really annoying

worst one i've had is at the mega on ztn. there's a lip around the mega spawn itself, and a hit that should've been direct did no damage of course, and the guy killed me, screaming low hp - but np, takes mega.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p2U0VNCcSA#t=4m29s

it happens all the time

roflmaopimp

exactly as I wrote in my journal few days ago...
where are the "haha-you-are-whiner"s aka fags now, hm?

situation of this game is coz netcode and spawnsystem RLY HILARIOUS
I dont get it, the spawn system must be only few rows code where you count the spawn rules (and they already have the good one from vq3)... so the argument "they have no time" is SO GAY

blame the syncerror for no response

those people are all still here.

but, honestly, most didn't disagree with your basic points. But with the enourmously retarded way you wrote.
Like a raged little poodle.

/care about your feelings

bow to your sensei

My sensei is a raged poodle?

quake live seems to get be getting shitter by the month

they should give the position, from which the players new spawn is calculated a standard deviation. that way it would be a bit random, but not completely.

posts like this are pure exaggeration and buildup.

1: you pulled out the 1 of 50 times it happens in a row.
2: spawn raping newbs that dont delay spawns or sidestep out is hilarious

jep system makes it kinda impossible to control a map 100% by your own, without relinquishing a kill. for instance on t7 mh room kill -> ra spawn , dm6 ya kill -> ra spawn blabla.

but well, other spawn systems demand other bullshity decisions.

it should be 65% range determined like its now and 35% random like in good ol times.

rocket issue: betaaaaaaaaaa

Did anyone think that a new spawn system will just lead to the same stuff we have now?

In Quake 3 VQ3 we could force spawns by being in specific locations at the right time, and we'd have a good idea of where they were going to spawn based on experience.

In Quake Live we saw a new spawn system, and less spawn kills on certain maps. But, the same thing is slowly coming about. Take ZTN, you generally know where they're going to spawn, and most of the time you can force that spawn (Kill them at mega, slow walk to shards near rail, RJ up when you hear the spawn sound).

So, all we did was really just figure out the new system. If ANOTHER new spawn system gets implemented, then what's to stop us from doing the same thing? Give the good players a few months, we will find how to force spawns, know spawns, etc.

I think it's a battle that can't be won.