http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1725081

;)

I bet those players won't use it anyway in a long run. I'm curious how much did they pay them to talk that blablabla bullshit ;]

They paid them nothing, the players have to do stuff like this, it's part of a sponsorship deal.

and the sponsorship deal means... money.

Money for the team, not the individual players. Steelseries is already paying them X amount of dollars, and the team advertises back. It's ridiculous to think that Steelseries would need to pay them MORE money for something they should already be getting.

These players did it because they were told to. They weren't paid for it.

wat. they were paid for it through their sponsorchip deal, so they got money for it.

On the other hand, maybe the mouse is really good, and they didn't even lie.

yeah and justin timberlake fucking loves pepsi, man, he'd like to take a bath in it he loves that shit so much

You're right, my optimism was misleaded on this one. The kinzu at least is all hype, the specs can't keep up at all. What a big dissapointment. Also what kind of retards work for those companies? I could make the best mouse of all times with the first try if I had the opportunity to design one from scratch...I mean how hard is it? Choose a fucking optical sensor that doesn't suck, fuck CPI, don't fuck up the shape, and that's it.

"These players did it because they were told to. They weren't paid for it. "

And they did what they were told because..... wait for it....

They're paid to.
It's not that complicated. They didn't get a "bonus" for saying this stuff about their sponsor, but they got paid for it. It's as simple as that. If they DIDN'T say it, chances are they WOULDN'T get paid... so yeah.


edit: "They paid them nothing, the players have to do stuff like this, it's part of a sponsorship deal. "

My head asplode

They don't get paid MORE money for doing this. Steelseries gives X amount of dollars and hardware to teams, which then the teams split accordingly.

Steelseries isn't giving them MORE money for this. If the players are getting salary (some are, some aren't) then their salary isn't going higher because of doing this. They aren't getting more money either.

What you're not getting is all these endorsements come with being paid members of their respective teams and are just some of their obligations as representatives of their teams (note: obligations). So, in a way, yes, they're getting paid more money to do it because Steelseries provides those teams that pay these players with additional means -- means which those teams would otherwise not have -- to pay the players their salaries.

Economics. Learn them someday, please, honestly. Because having a good idea of how money distribution works is really, really important going into the real world.

No they don't get additional funds from something like this. Teams barely do anything as it is in terms of advertising, so I guarantee you if Steelseries is giving EG X amount of dollars per year, it's not going to increase from three members talking about their new mice.

Maybe you don't understand what an ROI is, that's fine. Don't go assuming I don't know shit, if you want to be an asshole about it then go fuck yourself.

I'm being an asshole about it?

Being an asshole about it involves me calling you a fucking idiot for not getting the point, as I'm sure everyone who's repeating themselves right now wants to say. But I'm not doing that, and I won't as long as you don't get touchy about this subject which I'm trying to kindly explain to you.

What I'm saying is, because the contracts which they agreed to obligate them to do it, they are getting paid more for it. If you want an explanation of how this works, scroll up and read the last thing I said to you, because I don't know if I could be any clearer about this. It's practically the same thing as why Tiger Woods endorses Nike, except it comes with being a paid member of their team rather than as a separate agreement.

this

You STILL don't get it.

They're already getting money from Steelseries for the sponsorship.

Just because they do this video doesn't mean they get MORE money for doing it. It's already in the contract for members of gaming teams to do things like this. Yes, some of them get salary. Do they get MORE money for doing this video? No.

Once again, ROI.

Sigh...

Question: What do you think Steelseries expects in return for this money that they've "already" given EG?

Uhhh, promotion of their products, which they've given, which Steelseries already PAID them for BEFORE it even happened.

Steelseries gives a team X amount of dollars per year.

Just because they do a video like this doesn't mean Steelseries is going to give them X + MORE.

Your last post just pretty much proved my point.

On the contrary. You actually just agreed with what everybody's been trying to tell you. No one's saying Steelseries pays them more than they already do to make these videos.

So are you just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing? I don't get it...

What I'm saying is, because the contracts which they agreed to obligate them to do it, they are getting paid more for it.

So you're flip flopping?

Sigh...

Just...forget it. You really don't get it.

No I get it, you just have no idea how these contracts work =D

canada. pushing stupidity limits every day.

:D

I have no problem with that because I know I'm right =D

EG has a contract with SS that has SS pay EG X amount of dollars.

In return EG advertises SS products and their players promote SS products by using them, appearing in promotional videos and so on.

The players have a contract with EG which forces them to appear in promotional videos of EG's sponsors, say nice things about EG and its sponsors. In return the players get paid trips to LANs, accomodation and sometimes a salary. Then if they actualy win something, a % of the winnings.

Replace EG with any MGC. Replace SS with any sponsor.

Correct, exactly what I've been saying the entire time.

Why are you saying that as if you weren't the one arguing semantics in the first place? That's why everyone thinks you're an idiot.

It's abundantly clear now why you voted "dense" on the "Is Gillz a troll" poll.....

Come in when the argument is over, good idea!

errr....

<< Comment #8 @ 15:15 CDT, 5 August 2009 >>


??????

Anyway, done?

Yeah.
Yeah, I'm done.

I already said that.

"They didn't get a "bonus" for saying this stuff about their sponsor, but they got paid for it."

Getting more money is irrelevant. They say nice things because if they publicly said bad things their sponsors would drop them. This means less $ for both ss and the player.

Regardless the mouse looks pretty solid, but it's obvious from many of their descriptions that they don't really know how to promote it and are trying to be nice.

We'll see at the next events. They might be able to use it in competition, but they might not until it's publicly released.

ikari optical is really nice :O

probably the best mouse i've ever used.

im pretty sure you're not sponsered by Steelseries, so im curious as to why you made such a statement.
also, it's pretty much common knowledge that unless you're using a WMO/3.0, you like men

It's tracking is rock solid. It's really smooth. The buttons (which I care a lot about are very responsive QUICK) The funky ass shape is for some reason the most comfortable for me.

I used the ms3.0 for years, the mx510/518, G5, too many razer to list.. but the ikari just has it all for me :D

so you saying you wanna touch dicks or something?

I would not say no?

spoken like a true gentleman

Is there any definitive answer on whether the Kinzu has prediction/correction yet?

I think I answered it several times:

No, the Kinzu doesn't have angle snapping (aka prediction/acceleartion), but you can't turn it on with FreeMove like you can do witj the Ikari Laser or Xai.

LOL.. the new thing to cry about is prediction!??! Man how did people to be so freakin awsome those years with it.

seriously, all this rage about stuff no one cared for/noticed before is getting INTENSE.
according to my calculations, without prediction and the soon-to-be eliminated hand-fatigue, we'll see players' skills grow EXPONENTIALLY!!!!!

ROFL!!!

its more like the prediction wasnt present in older mice (like the IMO/WMO), so back then we didnt have to complain about it

lol gimme a break. How long has prediction been around? Sooo many good players used mice with it. Now all of a sudden its this huge deal.

what is prediction anyway?

Because like Lunatic said, older mice that most players still use (IE3.0/1.1, WMO) never had prediction, and prediction sucks, especially in FPS games. You want a mouse to pick up every little movement that your hand makes, not assume you are moving the mouse in a perfectly straight line when in fact you are adjusting height too.

are you not listening? It's been around. Pro's have used it. Apparently it really isn't that big of a deal. It doesn't really effect anything unless you're some nerd with placebo. OH HEY IT GOT PREDICTION DAT WHY IM PLAYING BAD! IT NOT PICKING UP ALL MY MOVEMENTS!

Depends which mice you've used before it probably. I didn't think it would be a big deal (hence why I bought a G1 knowing it would have prediction recently), but going from a 3.0 which I've used since like 2000ish or something I could notice a difference in-game :/

By the way, just because "pros have used it" doesn't mean it isn't nicer to play without it. I don't give a flying fuck what mice "pros" play with.

I used pros as reference to it not really having any meaning. You just think you could feel it and notice because you're a stupid ass cunt.


fyi I used the ms3.0 for YEARS.

So in other words you have no response to what I just said, and instead call me a 'stupid ass cunt' for noticing a clearly fucking noticeable effect (just go into pbrush, why exactly would you think this wouldn't effect in-game?). I'm beginning to doubt you even know what the fuck it is.

Anyway you clearly have no fucking idea what you're talking about and are just another NJ guido Internet tough guy (nice pic broski).

haha always go to the pic cuz u scared?


Anyways if you have to go to fucking PAINT TO "NOTICE" it then you're a stupid fucking cunt. Trust me you're a placebo'd fuckface.

It's just more blatant because you can visually see the effect with the line you draw. Would you honestly prefer prediction over the EXACT SAME mouse with no prediction?

Ask yourself this, before someone mention prediction would you even freaking notice? no nobody did. The fact you have to open paint because you can't notice it in game says it all.

Can you read? You can notice it in game, it's just easier to see in pbrush because there's a fucking visual line trailing your goddamn mouse movement. Why do you think 90+% of top players still use one of 3.0/IMO1.1/WMO anyway, the three fucking mice without prediction? Shape is something, but the lack of prediction is definitely one of the things that makes these sensors feel better.

Don't even know why I'm arguing with some fucking random I've never even heard of about this anyway.

Rofl. Ya you notice it in game but have to use paint to really notice it.

you are an official moron now

ok mr.paint

ya call names. People usually tend to go that route when they get frustrated by the truth.

I just have to comment on this discussion right now. You are both right. Prediction is bad (because it does not translate mouse movement 1:1 but rather does something else), but not that bad (the human brain can accustomize to almost everything, that doesn't mean prediction is no problem; technically it is. but it won't matter if you use such a mouse for a long time).

But if I had to choose, I would prefer a mouse without prediction of course. Unless I had used one with it for a long time, then it might be wise not to change anything and get the same mouse or a similar one.

I rail 60 and lg 50 so what the fuck is the problem for anyone else?

Apparently my mouse has prediction. Im a gd freak of nature.

I'm a lefty but use my mouse with the right, you have nothing on me.

what? Im a lefty and use my mouse with right too :o

Srsly? What are the odds...

LOL only left handed for writing eating drinking brushing teeth. Right is pretty much everything else.

masturbate mostly with left too

My stronger side is my left so I use it more often, but I do a fair amount of things with my right. I think that's not so bad, the fine motor skills get trained more equal.

am writing with my left hand only ,,, but i cant do anything else with my lefty hand , i tried before to use the mouse with my left hand but i couldn't ,

even in game i tried to change player hand from right to left but i felt am playing different game .

are you fuckin drunk?

the ms 3.0 has no prediction.

The D.A. does, and I noticed it right away, in game.

im sure you did.

After going from a Salmosa (used it for 6 months) and going to a 3.0 (currently using it) I'd say the prediction does affect quick rail flickshots. I found that I was hitting more flick rails, most likely because the 3.0 has no prediction.

I had the same mentality that prediction didn't effect anything, but after experiencing it, I'm fairly sure it does.

Placebo'd.

that just doesnt prove shit. What about the weight, mousepad, grip?

I had used the 3.0 before for about a year, then switched to the Salmosa, and back. So, I was already used to the shape and everything. I kept my same sensitivity.

It's hard to explain, but flick rails just seemed to hit more on the 3.0 then the Salmosa.

What is this "prediction"? Which mouses have that?

NZXT Avatar - very strong prediction. Its almost impossible not to draw straight lines in paint with this mouse. Its also almost impossible to draw a circle.

MX518 - A little bit of prediction but much much better than Avatar

Lachesis - No prediction

Diamondback - maybe a little can't remember

DeathAdder - maybe a little can't remember

What about WMO/IMO/IE3.0 ?

Ok just read above, they have no prediction.

Do you know how strong the G1's prediction is?

No never used G1 sorry.

I like the shape of it. I'll prolly end up buying it and trying it out. Razer DA weight is kinda annoying : \

I love it, another thread where Gillz shows us how stupid he is.

If by stupid you mean right.

=D

I am sure he means stupid.

[6:38pm] (REALISM): i didn't ask ANYTHING
[6:38pm] (REALISM): it's called RHETORIC
[6:38pm] (REALISM): dumb fuck
[6:38pm] ([51]`Gillz): RHETORICAL question has no answer
[6:38pm] ([51]`Gillz): you asked a real question

This prediction discussion is senseless same as the topic CRT vs. state of the art TFT...at least in this quake communuty.

CRT vs. non-120hz TFT's is no real discussion at all. Anyone with a clue knows that no regular (as in, not the new 120hz lcds) LCD comes anywhere close to 120hz+ CRTs?

awesome topic,
with the contract discussions and all,
we're all grateful for the revelations on the how all that stuff works
:D

its august where is the kinzu/xai!?

its remains august for another 21 days ;)
"coming soon"

this is bs!

NOW WHAT!! ITS NOT AUGUST ANYMORE!

yes indeed =(
the Steelseries.com shop offers the Kinzu since a few days, but I'm waiting for the Xai

No it doesn't, you can only pre-order. Delivery time: 3-5 weeks :/

Any update as to the release date of the Kinzu? Anyone got it yet? It says on Amazon: 11th september...

:<

lulz

Well, I found out... In the Netherlands the Kinzu will be released on the 10th of October, and in Germany on the 1st of October...

fyi cause some japanese reviewers of the Kinzu (prototype) aren't very happy with the mouse feet: Xai and Kinzu have different feet

Xai: glide
Kinzu: durability

links

http://blog.livedoor.jp/kumazon01/archives/65133769.html#top

Actually, I am fluent in Japanese...

Anyway, his review isn't very technical. He is a 3.0 user and one of his final conclusions was that this mouse could join the ranks of the 3.0 and 1.1; however, his review was nothing but critical of the mouse so I am confused as to how he concluded there.

Size:
Small, perhaps too small. Diamondback size (perfect for me then!).

Weight:
Very light and fast, felt great.

Buttons:
A little heavy to press.

Wheel button:
Too heavy to press quickly. For a War3 player I can understand this problem.

Feet:
He wasn't thrilled with the feet and changed to DHARMA SMOOTH FEET. From there he loved it.

Mousepad he used was Razer Goliathus Speed and XrayThunderPad.

Tracking:
In his tests, no tracking problems found. However, he has no data or images showing anything.

Software:
Easy to use and zero impact on CPU. Loved it.


And that's really all the relevant information. He's a War3 player so... take that as you will.

some more:

http://an-pan-man.com/archives/2009/08/28_2019.php#extended

http://e1ect.blog56.fc2.com/blog-entry-195.html

http://blog-imgs-29-origin.fc2.com/m/a/h/mahone0/SA350013.jpg

http://mahone0.blog45.fc2.com/blog-entry-60.html

and another 2 in chinese:

http://www.wuji.org.cn/bbs/thread-77835-1-3.html

http://www.wuji.org.cn/bbs/thread-77563-1-3.html

"Small, perhaps too small. Diamondback size (perfect for me then!)."

stopped reading here

Ribbed for her pleasure.

So does anyone have it yet? Be sure to post impressions..!

Thought the video of all the Pros would be enough :(

I would like to hear about the mouse from normal people who bought it and tried it, not from a Steelseries PR video. Someone should do an ESR review.

Was being sarcastic. Yes, that would indeed be better :)

THIS OUT YET ANYWHERE?!!?

Europe

http://www.wuji.org.cn/bbs/thread-77835-1-3.html
http://www.wuji.org.cn/bbs/thread-77563-1-3.html

Pics

Nice. Wouldn't mind Kinzu and G1/MX300 on a pic next to each other for size comparison

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3836796237_9056b92ea7_o.jpg

http://www.wuji.org.cn/bbs/thread-77563-1-3.html

More pictures there, a couple of the Kinzu and the MX300 beside each other.

Hmm, missed those, thanks.

Now that I've seen more pictures, I'm curious about trying it. Wouldn't mind replacing my 3.0, looks like this has a better grip.

=D

will prolly get one tomorrow when it appears in the local shop(oem version only though, hope it's not much different from the box version)

make me a short review then :) please :)

What's with the gigantic mouse feet?! I wonder if this is good or bad....

why won this mouse ever get released?!?!?!

Here in Germany Amazon says at october the 1st, but as I saw the feet I will wait for some reviews first

gigantic feet = more friction?

Depends on the material I guess. It's probably teflon or something with a similar friction coefficient, so on a cloth pad that could be good, if the feet won't sink into the pad as much as with small feet, giving less friction.

I'm getting really excited about this mouse! \o/ let's hope for the best _o_ \o_ /o/

no, i meant in general... physics and stuff i was never good at but still it should be: more space equals more friction. unless i'm an idiot and if so someone should correct me please :)

Yes, you are right.

That's why I was thinking about the pros for big feet, because the engineers from steelseries surely must have a good reason to go away from small feet to this. So I would guess this mouse is especially good for cloth pads.

But If the coating of the feet is made of something special, maybe the mouse performs better that way even on hard surfaces. At least big feet are more durable then small feet, that's also a plus.

Btw., do you still use metal gliders with your mouse? :)

no, no metal gliders anymore :p i went on to try different mouse/pad combos and they were better or equal in 'glide' and weigh about 1/2 of my custom made mx300. i play with a razer salmosa and a qck heavy now.

I got a Diamondback 3G but it sucks, I should have chosen the salmosa instead, best razer mouse with 3G sensor it seems, low weight and small shell, no fancy crap, I like the specs.

Whats wrong with DB 3G? I'm using it atm, I think its great.

I like lightweight mice, the DB with over 100 grams feels too heavy for me. Also I hold my mouse mainly with my fingertips, the shape feels so weird that I tend to hold the db only with thumb and pinky which makes the mouse feel even heavier and gives me pain in my hand.

Technically the 3G sensor is near perfect, but the shape doesn't fit me at all, which is surprising for me since it looked like an old pilot wheel ball mouse that I loved back in the days.

anyone go tit yet?

i havent got it yet but im sure i will never go tit about it :D

will get in 2 hours

tell me if the buttons are sensitive!

If you want it so badly search ebay, some guy is selling them.

whaaat? I dont think ill trust that.

So my small opinion after few minutes of testing it

First and prolly the main thing about this mouse:
The sensor is fucking weird shit:
- Enotus Mouse Test (http://h8m3.wippiespace.com/pack/MouseTest.exe) measured about 560dpi at 400dpi(!) setting while 770 at 800dpi...
- Max perfect control speed is less than 2m/s!!! :X Malfunction speed might a bit higher, but not much. The mouse just stops reading the surface completely after you exceed it so the cursor stops totally(well at least it doesnt jump) and that happens pretty often almost while every fast turn with my 35cm/360
all this makes kinzu A VERY BAD CHOICE for a med/low sens player including myself
- There still is correction... Drawing a flat line is like np 4 me. Much easier than with [email protected] and ofc with microsoft mice.
- There is random staircase effect at low dpi modes while moving it diagonally with different speed

Other than that:
-The mouse is fingergrip only. it's pretty hard to use clawgrip.
+no sidebuttons which could hinder gripping it
-no sidebuttons T_T
+scroll is oky
+buttons are not that sensitive as ikari had so they dont get pressed while placing your mouse on the opposite side of the pad turning ingame.
+oem mouse wire is just a simple wire as microsoft mice have but black so it doesnt get broken in a few weeks like ikari did.
-wire is still too thick for such a small mouse imo
+great liftoff distance. haven't measured, guess it's about 1-2 cd heights on different pads.

Conclusion
Not bad for fingergripping highsens player
Supershit for lowsens player

as for me brb moneyback :XD

Maaan... That makes me very unhappy. I had high hopes for the Kinzu (I'm a low sens player... which mouse do you use btw?)...

deathadder atm, waiting to try out xai

the buttons aren't as sensitive as the ikari optical? fuck it then!

Just so you know, that mousetest.exe is awful. Just awful. Don't put the slightest faith in it.

why no faith lol, what's so awful about it? and i just used it to get the approximate values.
it's obvious that kinzu moves much faster at 400dpi than any other 400/450dpi mouse even without it
Same for speed cap - it's not better than 1st generation laser mice skipping at medium speeds, i used mousetest just to know it approximately
the tool is pretty nice for such approximate measurements tbh

And why it is so fucking awful? Do you have any facts to prove it?

How come you blindly trust that "mousetest.exe"? Do you have the source to that program? If not, do you know where I could find information (in english) about the program? I'm interested (while I don't have much clue about programming).

Here is what I found in a forum about this test:

There actually is a program to test mice. It's no good for testing DPI, but the meters a second benchmark works fine.

Did you try different surfaces with the malfunction speed test? Which pads did you test it with? Maybe the malfunction speed is tweakable by setting the mouse to lower CPI settings?!

source code: http://enotus.at.tut.by/Files/MouseTestSrc.zip made in Python
In fact it's pretty accurate, DPI counter is reliable, but
1) it rounds the measured DPI by 200 so either change the few lines and recompile or just dont release the mousebutton if you need just to measure DPI and dont need the most accurate max speed cap.
2) For every mouse the real DPI depends on many factors such as distance to the pad / pressure on the mouse, the pad itself(on some pads the mice skip faster, on some the cursor jumps while reaching the max speed, etc) + you cant move it exactly 4 inches. DPI is a conventional unit, so it may vary.
For measuring max speed it's pretty accurate aswell if used properly(The most accurate when the DPI is set exactly). Just
1) use a big pad so you don't need to move it with some kick ass huge acceleration to reach the speed since sensors also have an accel cap. Just rotate the pad by 45 degrees and move it smoothly.
2) move the mouse horizontally. Diagonal or some circle movement will always have bigger max speed.
3) On some mice cursors jump when they reach the speed cap. That will cause unconstant results while measuring.

Did you try different surfaces with the malfunction speed test? Which pads did you test it with? Maybe the malfunction speed is tweakable by setting the mouse to lower CPI settings?!

I wrote about the pads lower. That doesnt help at all
The same about changing CPI. couldnt reach 2m/s at any mode.
Btw the specs promise only 50IPS and that's 1.27m/s which is fucking low. I wonder why they didnt use ikari optical sensor which was AWESOME. Eventhough it had correction(aswell as kinzu) but it had perfect control speed more than 5m/s.

Thanks for clearing that up! So you seem to know your stuff very well. I will look into the source code, but python, hmm, I only know C and Java, I hope I understand a tiny bit if anything...

But one thing astounds me, do you really hit over 1,5m/s top spead that easy? I'm asking because many quakers use WMO, which has perfect control only up to 1,55 m/s according to Sujoy's mousescore. Mew must be nothing compared to you ;)

Yeah, 1,5m/s seems pretty high, even if you play with low sens.

Enotus gives out test readings that are higher than what sujoy measured.

The WMO according to Enotus does about 2m/sec.

Yeah I'm going with Sujoy's test on that one, I'm pretty sure he knew exactly what he was doing while I'm not so sure what the MouseTest prog does actually measure yet. It could be measuring the malfunction speed which is way higher then the perfect control speed, or something in between. As h8m3 said, "some mice cursors jump when they reach the speed cap. That will cause [inconsistent] results while measuring".

uhm, mousetest shows 1.6-1.7m/s if you measure properly as i wrote. dont move it diagonally or in circles, but horizontally :L

use m_pitch 0 ;)

what?

I tried the program a few times with the same mouse (WMO1.1a) and the results differ. On the first try it gave me 1,96 m/s for maximum speed (is that supposed to be malfunction speed or perfect control? it doesn't say...), the second try 1,59 m/s, the third try 1,66 m/s, all done at 500 Hz USB polling rate, so I doubt this program is very accurate in that regard.

Yeah I tried it with a Salmosa and a Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0, and both gave really shit results.

how do they manage to make an optical mouse that skips in this day and age? I haven't seen a mouse like that in like 5 years, even razer crap doesn't skip these days... must've really put some effort in fucking this up.

@ h8m3

Regarding the sensor performance: On which mousepad did u test the Kinzu?

qck, titan, goliathus, qpad ct then i got bored
same shit everywhere

So Kinzu is pretty much fail. Lets see if Xai is better.

But the XAI is laser, so I highly doubt that =(

it shares its laser with the g9x which is supposed to be great actually.

nowadays laser>optical ;o

I assume it will be the same old story...

good sensor but bad shape/weight/buttons- so still fail except you <3 the IMO 1.1a

the xai could turn out well, but I really hate those buttons on the right side, they'll mess up my grip

stupid southpaws ruining it for us proper people

Any reviews of the xai yet?

kinzu has really bad negative accel.

I am returning it.

Did you set it to 500hz or 1000hz?

hmm seems like such a let down after so much anticipation. Is there any hope that these negatives aspects can be fixed/improved with some kind of firmware update? or is it pretty much crap no matter what?

looks like i'll just keep using wmo for now :D

neg accel/low malfunction threshhold are caused by a bad sensor

I doubt that all the firmware updates in the world could fix that

they could however probably remove the prediction

I'll get my Kinzu this weekend so I'm gonna tell u how it good or bad it is ;D

From what I'm seeing, it seems that instead of the optical catering to our needs, it seems to be made as an every day mouse.

The stats for the Kinzu are a lot worse then the Xai. You'd think it would be a good mouse considering it's opitcal, but from what I'm seeing, it's not.

Somet things I've seen, but have not confirmed for myself. Can someone answer these?

Negative Accel - Does it exist on 500 and 1000hz?
Prediction - Is it there?
Inches Per Second - The Kinzu is 50, anyone see that as a problem at a low sens?

I watched some videos of WCG USA and ESL China, and I've seen a few teams (EG, Fnatic) using the Kinzu/Xai. I couldn't tell if it was the Xai or Kinzu, but if they were using the Kinzu, I'm sure the IPS issue wouldn't exist. When playing CS on a low sens, you need a mouse to be able to read a high inches per second. I doubt they'd suffer performance just to advertise, which is why I think they're all using the Xai, since Steelseries cheaped out on the Kinzu.

I'll look into the return policy, but I'll try to get the Kinzu and test it out.

As of Chengdu CS1.6 tournament
f0rest one of the best players in the world uses the kinzu.
aswell as the top chinese favourite team tyloo two of them are using it i believe if u check pictures from the chengdu event.

it must be ok if they are using it :)

From what i heard from the wuji.org.cn forums, the neg accel seems to be some sort of hardware defect, something related to the supply off power to the mice, may explain why some claim it has neg accel and some say the opposite.

Well strange I only experienced neg accel by the common used dinput. However in_mouse -1 and the new raw input in QL solved the problem.

new raw input in ql? someone could make an round up of the different in_mouse and cl_mouseMode (or w/e it was) settings are. thanks

Damn this mouse feels like it has correction/prediction ON also feels like theres some positive acceleration.

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/7599/prediction.jpg

software 1.0.8
firmware 2.9.20

Yeah I had the feeling of positive acceleration also.

On the 400 dpi option, I had way, way more accel on than my value in quake live (0.2)......

Also, the stock feet are horrible, and I replaced them with steelseries ie 3.0/wmo etc feet to make the mouse bearable.

At least the malfunction speed is reasonably high.

Goes back to wmo...

+New Software 1.09 fixes all sensor problems

-The feet are alight if your using a hard mat
( feet are awful with QcK a lot of friction )

- MOUSE CORRECTION
( cant turn it off)

+New Software 1.09 fixes all sensor problems

not according to the guys in this thread

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1795039#pid1795039

ya i been thought this with another guy