amazin game from czm some great frags

CZM <3!!!!!!!!

Luniz!

to those that don't know, Raistlin is actually a pretty decent player. czm is just that good on this map right now.

Raistlin has always been more of a tdm and ctf player. Solid aim, tactics and teamwork, but not that dynamic in a 1v1 environment. Placed 4th in the 2v2 tournament at Quakecon this year actually. They probably would have placed 3rd if 2gd/blue hadn't decided to lose a round1 match thus screwing up the brackets. However, the 3rd and 4th place 2v2 teams never played each other, so I guess we'll never know!

of course, still it says a lot about the way czm won. It's not your typical 60-0 against some casual gamer.

what says more is the fact that contrary to what thump4 or whoever that was just said, raistlin has been doing nothing in q3 but duel (and maybe the occasional tdm pickup) for many many months...

I see. :)

and he doesn't even look at the top of his game. That's just insane.

raistlin isn't a newbie.he plays since qw.he made some simple mistakes in the first match and forgot timing in both matches.he doesn't play like a pro but he has some skills and agressive style.

ye but everybody looks like a noob vs czm :)

...anybody but walter *whistles*

:)

BAR COOLLER!

and you forgot smth: he's an unbelievable idiot!
whay did he come after czm into teleporter for the green armor every time?
there is an anti-railgun moving left-right trick, you know ?
after he just killed czm he moved towards the upper teleporter dodging many times- he thought czm will spawn with the railgun in his arms?
every time he respawned close to the jumpad he jumped into it going for the RL, I mean every time, wtf ?
:-|
czm isn't at his best imo

if he's not his best then this demo is not the one to show it, imo :>

will become more evident when he goes up against better players I guess

he used some dead angles in this match (RG positions), missed some jumps and had a no brain opponnent
I could look again at demo and see more but don't wanna spoil your enthusiasm :)
I'm curious how well he'll do against cooller as cooller look prepared on this map, must been practicing this map A LOT :D

cooller was losing to on lan to newbs on this map days before the tourney. also, czm does that to everyone on hub lately. i think your analysis is a bit inaccurate.

he still won't drop hub to anyone at this event.

I think czm will choose ztn instead aeroq against cooller :)
(at least I'd do that)

lol? why THE FUCK would he do that?

So that he wouldn't get a one map win almost for certain!

because ztalina is slavic, anything for a cooller victory! :D

=))
damn, you got me!

because cooller is confident with that map
but let's don't forget that czm has beaten cooller on ztn at E3 2005
cooller wouldn't expect czm to choose ztn, he's sure there will be the aeroq match

so...you'd pick cooller's famously strongest map?

no wonder you're not @ the cpl finals :\

Cooller's strongest map is most likely dm6 and not ztn :)

still ztn :\

oh no it's not.

Bump.

why, did you beat him on dm6 like you apparently beat any pro on dm6? zzz, LAN or didn't happen :<

I beat him every time but that's not the point. It's just not his strongest map :(

I think based on history this is what both are thinking when it comes to map picks.

CZM
Dm6 50/50 chance
ZTN 50/50 chance
HUB 100% sure win
Nodm9/dm13 50/50 chance

Cooller
Dm6 50/50 chance
ZTN 50/50 chance
HUB 100% loss
Nodm9/dm13 50/50 chance

Whichever way you look at it cooller picking hub is Suicide.
CZM has no weak maps. Unlike Cooller.

cooller looked pretty prepared on hub this time, well maybe it was not enough ;)
unlike czm which didn't train on his weak map (I still think ztn is a tricky map for him) I was pretty sure he was doing a lot of training on ztn, I was wrong...
so on ztn I'd say:
-30%czm
-70% cooller

on dm6:
-60% cooller
-40% ztn

on nodm9:
-60% cooller
-40% czm

i.m.o.

but I don't wanna be sceptic to the end :)
I'm glad with this contest!
:) :) :)

yes you're right.czm easily dominated this small map and raistlin forgot everything except attacking.the most important reason of this ownage : he forgot thinking :)

Try thinking when you're pinned in the air by czm's lg ^_^

Edit

I messed up in the nomenclature of this demo. It was actually game 2. Sorry for any confusion.

FUckin unreal shit as usual!!!!!!!! a joy to watch!

look at all that rust

i'd love to be that rusty!

wow Raistlin got ravenshadowed.

lol @ bringin back that phrase. except ravenshadow was a nobody.

better than getting zerapio'd

Plz keep the demos coming!

too sick this was.

might as well call it a fragmovie lol

czm goes crazy in this one

Must see demo for all the czm's fans :)

;)

czm crazy as always!

Looking pretty solid already, at least @ hub.

MORE!

madness

o m g... that was really really impressive

I just hope czm don't get too confident!

eswc 2005 eh? :)

yep!

cum be sprayin

Voices report that aimbots accused czm of human cheating after this

someone make a "how to play aero by czm" movie :)

brainhack!

WTF!?! THAT WAS NOT HUMAN.

one word : flop

haha jealous

nice

The boy must be autistic or something. THIS is crazy.
He is what zamuz is on ztn and what toxic was(?) on dm6 :)

i think that comparison is unfair to czm's hub abilit; he beat z4muz on ztn. and toxic lost plenty of games on dm6 :\

those players certainly were dominant on those maps. but they both dropped games. what we're seeing from czm + hub is something totally new - unbeatable.

z4 on pt4 circa 2001/2

closer, but not quite. z4 wasn't beating all the other top players by 30+. also, he didn't go unbeaten for 3 years on t4.

there simply is no comparison

well fox almost beat czm on hub a few years ago so i think the z4-prot4 was a good comparison ;)

1) that was the first major tourney with hub

2) almost don't count :> (since then, the closest was cooller getting within 30) <-- see edit

edit*

my mistake, fox got within 20 in 2005

It was the third major tournament with HUB

1) ESWC 2004
2) Quakecon 2004
3) ESWC 2005
4) CPL 2006

eswc 2004

The fox vs czm game was the Semi-Final of ESWC 2005.

czm picked hub3aeroq3 won it but it was pretty close for 13-14 minutes
Fox picked pdm6 czm won and dominated that map.

fox picked czm?

the "close" one we're talking about is the 21-19 win for czm @ eswc2004 (the first major tourney use of hub). you're thinking of the 21-10 game @ eswc2005 that was interesting for all of about 3 minutes.

czm and fox had a super close hub match at ESWC 2005... it was definitely not 21-10...

the 2 demos of those two on hub from eswc2005 were 21-10 and like 37-8. the eswc 2004 game was really close. you have them confused or are thinking of game on a different map.

The score may not seem close but it was a close game.

hmm yea, I'm probably confused :/ I just don't remember it being "interesting for all of about 3 minutes". Afair it was pretty damn exciting almost all the way through.

it was a 5 frag game up to the 13 minute mark, then czm did a little spawn raping and bam, 21-10

yea okay...

but it was good. fox even had the lead at one point

you're definitely thinking about eswc2004 then, eswc2005 hub game i fell asleep :\

The 21-10 (I don't think that was the score but I'll take your word for it) game only got extended in the final minute/two.

Also ESWC2004 site lists the result as 19-17

2 frags nonetheless

z4 had to play far more people in far more tournaments on the map, and he still only lost twice. (I think one of them was online too.)

czm hasn't lost, but the map hasn't been played that often yet, well I think we will have a better idea of czm's standings once he plays someone useful on the map.

someone useful? sry fox/cooller/and everyone else he's beaten there doesn't suffice for you :(

In one tournament, no it isn't. Hub just isn't played that much, just because czm got a head start doesn't mean he is unbeatable.

one tournament? you mean about 4 majors with only 1 close game. and in 3 of those, he was choosing the map every match or being forced to play it. ie, in almost every czm match we've had for the past 2.5 years, he's played hub and never lost. zero4 was great, but he can't say that about himself + t4. and after putting down a whole field of eswc players on the map not once but two years IN A ROW , i think it's also pretty silly to suggest that he hasn't played anyone worthy :\

There were a lot more people playing q3 when ZeRo4 was destroying emotions on T4...the fact that he went pretty much undefeated for 3 years on that map and that he had no problems adjusting to the pro-T4 version speaks volumes...anyone remember when he totally crushed the great (back then) Fatal1ty on T4? ouch...imho you can't really say that czm's run on aeroq3 is far superior from z4's run in vertical vengeance. Those are the most solid undefeated runs in q3 history...the stuff of legends, kids.

the skill level and quality of players overall is greater now here in the past few years than when zero4 was newb raping, similar to (but not quite as easy as) fatality.

The skill level was probably lower but he had to face many more challenges...there were many great players back then too...prozac, blue, LakeRmaN, ni3, everybody from the 519 and cK clans...etc...he even destroyed czm on T4 at QuakeCon a few yeas ago. Back in the day, it was no contest, no matter what your name was.

"skill level lower....more challenges" - doesn't make sense

"prozac blue lakerman ni3" - he never played any of them on t4 afaik

"everybody from 519" - lol, 519 didn't have any great duellers, the closest was bitchslayre, he got knocked out by fatality at every tourney, not zero4

everybody from cK - fatality/czm you mean. fatality beat him more on t4 than he beat fatality. he broke even with czm

destroyed czm on t4 a few years back - ya, and their very next game, czm raped him on t4 and went on to win the tourney


you're talking out of your ass with fanboyism's rather than facts. plus, you're also ignoring the fact that zero4 was winning his matches by 10-20-30...not 30-40-50-60 like czm does to most people on hub.

i'm in no way saying that zero4 wasn't a great dueller. he's easily top2 alltime with cooller. but as far as individual map dominance, no one comes close to czm's reign over hub.

He got more challenges meaning that more ppl challenged him...get it now? I got a paper and a pencil if you want a drawing.

Of course he played lakerman and ni3, I've seen the demos.

Everybody from 519 could kick your ass on any given day. Next?
Also, everybody has bad days, ZeRo4 never had a day off.

fatal1ty beat him more on T4? LOL are you new to this or are you just trolling for attention? rofl...

The game I'm talking about was at QuakeCon 2002 or something...it was the first time they played each other and czm got raped....I refer to this game because it was during z4's undefeated run....the stuff that happened later was after z4's great run. But you're right about the rest of their matches, czm got better and better and could easily beat him.

The frag margin is a non-issue, different map, different scores...we all know (do you?) aeroq3 is a tele map so you can move faster. You seem to be the only fanboy in here...do you have posters of czm's helmet on your walls?

i'm in no way saying that czm isn't a great dueller but I think what z4 did is even more impressive than what czm is doing because z4 had many more asses to kick and many more tourneys to win.

Plus, ZeRo4 used to win tourneys instead of placing 2nd.

In my mind, z4 is the greatest player quake has ever seen...it's not fanboyism, it's just the cold hard facts.

omg, you're spraying cum everywhere...

I used to fuck guys like your twin sister in prison, kid...manlove is nothing new to me.

omg, you're spraying cum everywhere...

pt4 facts:
- he lost a match against fazz eswc 2003
-cyberX gaming he went unprepared and lost a match against czm (nice no rocket jump)
-qcon 2004 he went unprepared (czm said this) and lost a match
-e3 2005 he had a fine sense of humour when he played czm just for cooller's sake ;)
-socrates and daler (2002) won against him in some noname competitions

"the skill level and quality of players overall is greater now here in the past few years than when zero4 was newb raping, similar to (but not quite as easy as) fatality."?
players these days don't have style.period
pro-t4 > aeroq

btw the year he defeated fatal1ty on pt4 was 2001
fatal1ty has beaten him on t4, never on pt4 if I remember correctly

and speaking about the maximum shape for each player nobody cand beat a z4 qcon2003 on pt4

if you think czm and cooller, amongst others, don't have style, you must have been watching the CS rounds instead of q3.

I mean Lakerman had style, right ?
Zero4 had style, too!
well..czm maybe started a little bit to be himself, though he have no style yet! cooller ? same story
czm and cooller games looks like old unkind's games at least he was original on his style...ya! unkind had style too! with his crazy ass high sens and nervous aiming style (his character must be the same)
when I watch these 2 guys matches I only see skillz and routines!
but where are their f*souls, man ?
I mean czm had the opportunity for a couple of years to become number one (2000,2001,2002,2003) why did he not succeed then?
I really hope some new guy (maybe that walter or who's name is) will start to compete and beat all these guys
these guys are only run like hell, apply pressure, use that lame lasy ass GL and the stupid LG and no think
these guys are only strafejump whores, they run all the map picking up as many things as possible, if they meet each other they count on their long time worked aim

just check lakerman versus zero4 the t4 matches at Babbages CPL
close the end of the game (about minute 14) Zero4 is jumping across the RG room one side to the other without using those pillars platform for support
he must have trained like crazy to be able to do that jump (he did not train for that jump although but these are things that are just happening when you train very much)
players these days still can't do that jump
I looked those demos last days and I did not have the feeling that I have seen an older contest

you don't make sense. that jump on t4 for example, cloak and i were doing that in 1999 weeks after the full game came out (we were just 2 of many). most decent duellers in the US were able to do it by the time babbages cpl came around in winter of 2000.

you talk about style as being a reflection of personality. i agree with you there, but what you fail to realize is that with so many players and so many styles, you're not only holding the new players to your 2001-2002 fanboy standards, but also failing to recognize the wonderful idiosyncrasies in the play of today's top players.

example: have cooller, czm, and jibo alias as "bob" and get them to play the same player on the same map one after another. show me the demos, i'll tell you which player is which within a minute of starting each demo. no problem. perhaps your eyes or your understanding of the game require a bit more tweaking.

look for the demo if you think you can do it
you don't know what jump I was talking about
z4-lakerman-t4-Babbages CPL
z4's POV, about 14:10

you're gonna have to explain the jump (as i don't have the demo).

but it's most likely across the top of the rail room...again, a fairly common jump that any t4 player is well acquainted with.

he jumped from here:
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6366/startga3.jpg

here:
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1358/endqo7.jpg

ya, exactly. people have been doing that jump for nearly 7 years.

I have over 500 q3 demos on my hdd, maybe half of them are on pt4 but excepting this demo I never seen that jump again

so?

lol, i joined an OSP server just now and made the jump first try :/

let me know if you want to have TWO demos of that jump on your HD...

you made the jump first try ?
you must be the jumping king then lol
don't believe you!
:p

if you read the previous comment, you'll notice that i offered you the demo.

you only said that but I don't see any link :)

gimme an email address or find me on irc @ ETG #duel

-cyberX gaming he went unprepared and lost a match against czm (nice no rocket jump)

that was a practice game.

-socrates and daler (2002) has beaten him in some noname competitions

pretty sure daler has never beaten z4 on pt4. socrates won in the ESo tourney early 2003

yes he did
I got the demo
;)
it was some early 2002 competition
I knew the same as you that he has never beaten z4 till I saw that demo

if it's from early 2002 then it's definately not daler beating z4. daler sucked horribly on pt4 at that time.

have to look on my PCs for that demo
I'll upload the demo tommorrow
in case I won't find it go and do a search on q3acn.com

finally found it
it it dated March-31-2003 some PGP semifinals
so it's 2003, not 2002
my bad

if you mean soc then thats a well known win

no
daler-vs-z4
March 31 2003 PGP semifinals

he wasn't because the map isn't as tight and enclosed as hub3aeroq3 and doesn't offer the same chance of spawn raping

lol, z4 made a living off of spawn raping on t4 :)

the map wasn't as cramped, but zero4's rail went a long way. also, the pro-t4 doesn't allow for a hell of a lot of movement/attack options. even easier to predict where a player is coming from there than on hub, not to mention having so much more time to react to movement. yet and still, zero4 never achieved the utter and complete rapes of good players like czm is doing on hub.

i mean think about it. when someone gets within 20 frags of czm on hub, it's considered a close game :\

cooller on dm6 ;)

Crazy rail, some very well positioned rockets AND air rockets too.

Oh yeah, not to mention the shaft...

this should be certified by yeltsin as OMG awesome :)
czm is hot, sexy demo

czm is nice. met him online a few years ago when i was bootcamping with proZaC at my brothers place. he challenged us to play at a NL server where paul had ping 110.. he bashed the hell out of us. he is one of the smartest if not the most consistent player of this field i believe.

I remember rufus said he used to play czm when czm had like 100 ping and he still got schooled :>

haha, i used to sit in on those late nite sessions just prior to eswc2k4.

Nice

I like

HUGE PLAY! :O

not so impressive

He must play Quake 3 a lot

someone has played this map before...

czm owns, as always :)

viju looked good on hub too

CZM is good but the way your all talking your would think he is GOD or something! Take away his rail and he is no better than the other top players at the tourney. With 15second weapon respawn on the RG he can be neutralized for large parts of the game *by someone decent*

he's basically played everyone decent on this map. LOL. you're dumb :)



Btw you guys are forgetting, Walter beats czm regularly on hub.


(laughing out loud)

I really don't know what to think about walter. If someone offered me 600USD to just to show up at a LAN event, I would do it, and based on how good walter does online, make some money in the tournament too, on top of taking viju's and especially cl0ck's money, as well as silencing the naysayers.

/just sayin

That's pretty much what happened when cooller beat him at eswc...czm dominated the hub game before getting schooled on dm6 and even more schooled on a map without rail, q3dm13.(which is one of the best q3 1v1 maps ever by the way *cough*)

yeah where cooller slaughtered him until the 10min mark or so where he decided to hide for some reason with something like a 12 frag advantage - and nearly lost! one of the best dm6 games ever

cooller had no choice to hide..czm had taken control of the map and looked very pissed...cooller is no homo so he knew that and played safe...until he got his chance. It was no contest on q3dm13 though...it's a very balanced map and it's too bad nobody plays it anymore.

i didnt see what was so good about this? he missed alot of rails 2?!

noob alert

Hey guys, although this demo will be unbdoubtedly a great watch I did not bother to even not do the "not spawn to throw off the spawn rape routine" thing.

The truth is I already knew I would advance from my group and was just plain tired from my flight hassles, and I knew I was far from the shape capable of beating czm anyway so I thought this style of play would be the most fun :)

czm did look very in form though, no denying that!

cheers, you saved 15 mins of my life

boring demo, to rail heavy, hub can be played with brain to.