I don't know what do you mean by dead exactly? Your favorite gametype not meeting your popularity expectations - sure, they may be dead.

I've played some q3 and ql recently and both have some small communities that are going strong and you can play every evening without any downtime easily (in eu).

Dead as in no active lans, competition, cups, tournaments, a decent sized player base.

Also just being able to play some games in the evenings.
Yeah I play them and enjoy but imo if I cannot just jump into some game and play but need to waste time to wait for other people, they are basically dead.

And there is no afps game that is playable at any time

Mostly popularity and not being able to play in almost any time

If Diabotical Tournaments System will be free for every player, then we can make small tournaments(pickups) with any settings we want, custom maps, roundrobins and number of rounds, brackets, bo1-boN, without shitposting tournament info on esr and discord. Without time queue. And without timeout for laggers(optionally). With custom elo range, custom participants karma range.

All should be without breaks, automated start, automated bracket, map pick without chat , automated lose for latecomers\ragequitters\internet laggers


And AUTOMATED SERVER selection for both players if it will be duel. by smallest ping difference.

It's cool that Diabotical has these all features but game feels like worse QL overall

Also pretty dead and also searching for pickups already

You are dead

No, you

There's the talk of a new SP Quake happening, if that is the quote on quote new game.

Source?

Just because some Boomers want a Q1 sequel doesnt mean its going to happen. Q1 SP wasnt even that good, its customized user created maps that make it good more than anything. Most people just remember a brownish game that was a bit stale, while still revolutionary in graphics.
Anyway, the new generations dont really know Quake anymore. If they republish Q1 it will be a *very* different game for sure, but a Quake title never resembled another anyway, they just used the Quake name to stick it on their subpar FPS games to get more sales ...

A tangent but I can't help myself.

Quite some time ago someone created "if quake was done today" video https://www.youtube.com/watch/W1ZtBCpo0eU

In said video there is a lot of shit, in particular making fun of obvious tips. Yet, should you run quake 1, one of the first things you are told when you enter the first level is "you can jump across" or something else to that extent.

I think the best part about the entire ordeal is that majority of the people lamenting after quake, should they be literal teenagers today, would think it's a shitty game.

yup, they are a bit too nostalgic about it, also the retro fps coming out nowadays are not the same as back then, they are only faithful to the nostalgic memories but are often much better games ...

this is what people think quake 1 looked like back then:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5F2BL1Hyjo

but this is the reality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF5Ci65WJuI

for me its really about people who did all the great level designs like zerstoerer, mexx, also liked q1 mission pack scourge of armagon, now arcane dimensions ... there was also solider of fortune mod, etc.
these custom episodes are what really made quake great, besides the multiplayer which also enabled modding and creation of ctf, teamfortress, clan arena, etc., etc. ...

Damn, this 1st link looks beautiful

- Sure it was russian faggots, who spread their cheaters, hidden agents, and admins like on this site.



Everything that russian touch - become a disgustive poop.

That hack is pure lololol. To blame one country for ruining the game is a bit far fetch.

Z3ct4d will always manage to find ways to blame the sons of Putin for anything :-)

- Not every cheater is ruzky, but around a half cheaters, hackers and thiefs in a World - are ruzkyies. They're hating all humanity, and justify himself as a "jihad vs non-humans" - that's is their way of life. Use googletranslate to read his comments on that vid.

This bot is funny, I think it's controlling the movements too, although the coding is really bad in that department.

QL/Q4 still very much active. You're just being a little bitch.

QL maybe, mostly CA, other stuff is joining empty server and wait, maybe somebody will join, maybe not

Q4 - seriously? Waiting for some pickups to play is not something that can be called "alive" and I play like this but mostly I do not have a time for it.

I get games in q4 whenever I want, so no idea where or what server you're on.

:rolling_eyes:

Yeah, I checked that Q4 discord, pretty dead. Maybe you should try early in the morning or something if. If 20 players is something "alive" for you then this discussion is pointless.

I know that you can but calling it alive is just false.

I dunno which discord you're referring to, but hey. Go be sad somewhere else.

You exactly know about what discord I'm talking, because you are there and there is no other discord. So go there and close yourself in imagineer world where Q4 is alive and you can play anytime.

Compared to QL it is super small playerbase.

There are actually a few q4 and doom discord's so you need to elaborate.

Instead of giving detached one line responses, share some invites dude. Maybe others would like to jump in too.

https://discord.com/invite/hRhu7BjeUG

You know exactly which discord because you are there.
I do not mind to play dead games with just few players but I do not pretend that they are alive. I'm not sad, it is just a fact.

QL isn't dead. Thanks to that amazing HOMER server. Dear god, it's glorious. Glorious I tell you!

The AFPS dilemma:

If you make a new arena FPS game as pure as possible and add very little "new" stuff, then there's no real reason to play the new game other than maybe some pretty new graphics, when older games that play pretty much the same have more well-developed and dedicated communities, simply because they've been around longer. So you don't get a lot of players as a result. Hence why CPMA is still kicking with a small, but passionate fanbase while Reflex is pretty much dead in the water.

If you make a new arena FPS game and try to innovate as much as possible to make it stand out, then you will also likely turn away many potential players because they are not comfortable with trying new mechanics, either due to time investment or concerns that the new mechanics may break the delicate balance of the core AFPS gameplay, and there's no way to tell for sure without sinking many hours to test hypotheses about the impact of those new mechanics and verifying their viability in a competitive environment.

So either way you lose, unless you can strike a very fine balance.

Imagine if Reflex Arena was f2p and open sourced like Xonotic.

QuakeWorld community is also doing good or even better and probably because it is kinda open sourced? Also there are leagues, tournaments with prize pools, stats website, bots for pickups, discord.

CPMA is doing ok but I guess it could be better. But I think there are more problems with license for mod and Q3?

Anyway map like cpm3b looks cool
https://streamable.com/1egco6

Very superficial reasoning. A classic, simple, pure arena fps experience with top tier, current generation graphics and user interface is what quakers and UT players have begged for a decade or more, and never got even once.

All the "afps revival" experiments that have been half assed in the last years failed exactly because the gameplay sucked big balls in trying tobe innovative and inclusive.

Quake 4's butt scooting sucked. Many players from quake 3/UT era got repulsed and pushed away from it.

All people wanted from quake 4 was a killer single player and a polished quake 3 multiplayer experience but with futuristic graphics- they got none of that.

Then came quake live, that was essentially the good old quake 3 gameplay but with some crucial differences: it wasn't 1999 anymore and people wanted a little more on the graphical compartment, but mostly 5 seconds respawn time for weapons and refillable ammo meant the gameplay became a complete spamfest and all you really neded was a lighting gun and rush.

Again, the only changes they did to the gameplay in quake 4 and live were for the worse.

And then came quake champions, the apotheosis of all the mistakes that were made before, pumped to 11.

Sucky outdated graphics at launch, buggy unstable heavy laggy engine, horrible netcode, but most of all: a toxic soup of random characters and abilities straight copy pasted from other games in the hope to get something for everyone- and getting the opposite, nobody really happy in the random resulting gameplay cacophony.

The universal appeal of quake 3 gameplay was in the simplicity of its basics. Everyone is the same and moves the same way, and it's not hard to learn. In fact, it's much easier to learn than counter strike or League of legends- two gigantic behemots of games.

But you can evolve that basics endlessly and it's very satisfying and has a better flow than call of duty or other games.

Champions on the contrary feels frustrating mostly for newbies because getting squashed by the different abilities is disorienting. Also all the weapons hit too hard and new players get molten faster than ever.

They tough giving newbies a 90 damage railgun would give them more power, but guess who's better at abusing stronger hitscan weapons? That's right, the veterans.

They tought a 4X damage multiplyer pink quad would give newbies a better chance to vaporize them pesky veterans, but guess who gets the quad 95% of the time? That's right, them pesky veterans who have an easier time than ever to abuse newbies in quake champions.

The answer is not the bastardization of the gameplay. It only makes the gameplay a mess.

"Simple" basic rulesets like quake 3's or UT's are the best to have a good time. It's up to the players to add complexity and variety with their skills.

In a modern package, wich means without having to download 200 different .zip packages and inserting them into each other in the correct order and then having to type some command in programming language just to get the whole thing started.

Let's try THAT, at least ONCE, before blaming the whole genre and calling it unlikable.

Only one thing is missing, Quake Live Early state + subscription model...

What are your opinions on Xonotic, which has some more unusual weapons not found in other similar AFPS titles? Or Warsow, which has wall-jumping? Or Insight, which has the whole "you become visible when you make a noise" mechanic? These all innovate on arena FPS without changing the core principles, like on-spawn equality and item timing. As long as it adds skill, innovation is not inherently "bad". To what extent can gameplay be changed before it becomes "bastardized"?

Xonotic is kinda interesting because it has more like QW movement

Yeah I love the physics in Xonotic. And their weapons are pretty unique too. Some of them can be kind of hit-and-miss but others are quite novel, like the Crylink, which is unique in that it responds to the player holding and releasing the fire button, as opposed to just being "fire-and-forget" like standard weapons.

How do I plus this 50 more times?

CPM is also quite active. There's a lot of people dueling. There's a lot of NTF being played. CTF and TDM have some activity too.

Maybe if you live in Australia it's not active right now but there's always games going on in CPM.

You can't refresh the server browser and just call it dead.
You have to go into the Discord and add to the organized games. There's very few people to play with on public servers.

I do periodically see groups of people who play with their friends on random servers in FFA or clan arena. It's rare and the rare public game does happen.

People have: 1. busy lives, 2. obligations, 3. work, 4. random stuff to do

They just add and play when they can. I would say population of unique players is greater than 100 for sure in the last 3 months but the issue is a lot of people don't play super actively each day. Lots of guys will show up once a year and then go back to their real life or a game with a bit more easier matchmaking.

A lot of games are actually having constant games, I'm sure Q4 too as well as Q1 and Q2. I think the question is, can you tolerate a community where it's sort of the same band of guys. In QW it's a bit harder for sure because the gap between the div1 players and everyone else is so wide. I don't expect you can feel this wide of a gap in other communities and team games should sort of deter that. There's a huge difference between QW div1 tdm and every other game, q2, q3, q4, etc, in any mod really. You just don't see 300-0 scorelines in other games.

I think Xonotic does have the one blessing that its accessible and extremly compatible to DL on a bunch of distros because it's fully open source. I do question how active that game is, people claim it's just as active if not more active than QL which I find hard to believe.

I know there's a huge OpenArena community too in Europe, if you like a game, you will always find someone to play. I think the only exception and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, is Painkiller and the original Unreal, Unreal II, Painkiller, UT2004, Reflex, and Toxikk are sorta dead.

I just wonder what's the status of Warsow. it got forked to WarFork and I don't know what happened to the original Warsow and Warfork. I think this was a huge mistake to do and very dumb. I would've tried to keep with the original warsow design and not gone steam exclusive. I compare this to nexiuz vs xono... oh well

CPM

Warms my heart to see the proper name.

CPAM

"People have: 1. busy lives" - this
So I know it , and I play pickups myself when I can, but it is very hard when you are busy.

So if I'm quite busy it is just too hard and I will go and play something else or do different thing, because I will not sacrifice my time for waiting. It is more important for me when I choose to play.

just playmorepromode

https://discord.me/cpma

https://www.reddit.com/r/ArenaFPS/comments/l8...mode_cpma/

you can check this thread about the stats https://www.reddit.com/r/ArenaFPS/comments/kz...s_pickups/