If they don't sort this ASAP, it's not going to be good for the QPL.

He's eliminated from the QPL, fortunately.

Admins can review the footage in peace and decide what to do with him in Challengers, but there's no cheating controversy in the QPL, because he's not in the QPL!

I don't think that relieves them of the responsibility to address it and put out a statement.

> id software
> responsibility
> kek

> id software
more like syncerror and his cat

myau

so it was you! please, stop distracting syncerror from developing QC

I know, but... One can hope, right? RIGHT?

still lost tho

Haven't seen anything this sus in a while. Seen some posts around here about GNIK being a cheater--this looks pretty damning, especially when slowed down.

Yea he cheated a lot in ffa.

Could be anything if we're talking about the random teleport exit shooting. Who is this guy anyway? Never heard of him

https://www.twitch.tv/quake/clip/YawningMuddyMallardVoteYea
https://www.twitch.tv/quake2/clip/PunchyShortAntSwiftRage

I don’t get the k1llsen thing but i get the cooller thing

Yeah even ESR is going full retarded.

First clip, random nail gun pre fire spam.

2nd clip with rocket is a common thing you do in QC, if you shoot a rocket towards where you think the enemy is located, you can block the armor pick sound.

Hey man, I'm just here for the drama

when I saw the duel what I saw as shown in the 1st clip also looked a bit suspicious to me ... but it doesn't really make sense

Someone in the quake twitch channel chat was going on about how Gnik was hacking so I found this thread.

Now I had to comment and reply to this silly post by lolograde with clips he deems suspicious.

The first link - if you are even a quake player and you watch just 5 seconds earlier (if you are even watching) you would understand that he thought killsen is there and kept firing the plasma rifle into the corner (partially because of his playstyle and his temperament).

The second link - he is hiding the timing on when he took the heavy armor through the rocket explosion sound by firing it next to the nearest wall in the direction where he believed his opponent was.

That you think Cooller (pretty much the only guy in the quake community who would never under any condition cheat if you ask anyone) is cheating is ridiculous.

Or well that's the extent of your knowledge/skill about the game. No spite here towards you but you did post the clips.

The first clip with the plasma is understandable, but that second one..... WOW! What in the absolute fuck?! Coller too? That'd explain why it never bothered him to keep practicing with obvious wallhacker/aimbotter Base or Agent....

First one looks like he thought that he could be in the corner and prefired

Second one leaves me more confused than suspicious, my first thought was that it was a missclick but what was he doing looking in that direction in the first place? My guess is that he intentionally fired that rocket in the corner of the room to fake a rocket jump at the other side of the corner, but I dont know I never played QC duel so its onlya pleb guess

Maybe to obscure the sound of the armour pickup.

you didn't get the clip, it's not about the prefire but pging along the wall afterwards. dunno if it's hax,but suspicious. looks like the shots could have connected if there was no wall.

I got that but I think it is only a coincidence, plus I dont think these shots would actually have connected but I suck with plasma so who knows
Plus if I was cooler and decided to cheat in this match this not when I would do it

You're right, rewatching the clip it looks like Coooller isn't just spamming around the corner, killsen's hitbox happened to be in that zone trough the wall and cooller's crosshair gets "pulled" toward it.


Cooller was so mad toward killsen he went full retard and used base's cheats to beat killsen. Shame. After all those years. The death of a hero.

Could you please explain in your own words what you find suspicious in these clips?

What's so suspicious about plasma spam? What's suspicious about shooting a rocket at a wall when there is no enemy behind that spot?

Thank you

They look funny but really isn't anything unusual. I didn't clip them, just sharing for drama.

1st clip is nothing, 2nd clip is him masking his armor pickup. He does a lot of little tricks like that, watch his streams. Out of all players in the QPL, he's one who looks 100% legit to me. Cooller plays very smart but still he can't predict his opponent all the time and sometimes misjudges a situation. QPL has some fishy players who seem to possess the superpower of always keeping the opponent's position in their mind, but there are also players that are just very smart and get it right 95% of the time by making good predictions.

first clip to me looks like prefire to check the corner?

Exactly, while it obviously looks like a cheat - it's not any kind of proof by it's own and you can't punish player based on just that.

I'm more surprised that no one else seems to feel like Raisy is wallhacking. Not during fights because he's not a moron, but keeps turning his view so that he can keep an eye on his opponent. Looks so weird, even after 20 years of watching the smartest Quake players I can't remember seeing something like that. But whatever, I don't care much about Quake anymore.

Obvious aimbot is obvious.

But he's far from the only one. Other players are using only wallhacks.

And let's not forget formerly banned cheater Base is destroying everyone in his path

Where by "banned cheater" you mean "someone who's had a VAC ban on his Steam account at one time" (you know, like every person who's ever played Diablo 3, because VAC).

And by "destroying everyone in his path" you mean "won a single match in the whole tournament".

:D

Yeah, i'm sure he got VAC banned because of Diablo.

Strange how he also didn't notify anybody about it, until we found out.

Strange how he went on a deleting spree of the friendlist and contacts.

He didn't act guilty at all. Like claiming he got hacked, the most bullshit of all the excuses and basically an admission of guiltiness in itself.

Let me guess, were you also VAC banned because of "diablo"?

Played Diablo 3 often, no VAC ban EVER.

Lul trying to justify 3rd party application abuse.

Leave gniky alone!

A cheater in QPL? I'll act surprised ...

One of the best Bloodbath songs

when it comes to gnik, or just in general overweight ex-cheaters who were caught 3 times and lose every tournament, where does the ego come from? in fact it's stupid to bring up tournaments, this guy loses so many regular online games vs rapha that i honestly wouldn't be surprised if rapha had a 95% winrate vs gnik. and that's while getting outaimed by rapha as well.

he has all of the worst traits of the ex-cheaters and none of the positives. and yet he's still going to play ladder games on qc vs a casual player, or go on quake live for a few games or try diabotical, and he's still going to talk shit as if he was the most talented player in the world.

I don't know what to think about the Gnik clip

Whats more sad? to cheat , or to cheat and still be garbage?

I don't remember Gnik being good at Qlive and I just assumed he was doing well in QC because there is not much talent left in the tiny player base.

For me personally that clip is not concrete evidence but i don't really think it matters anyway.

One thing you can count on though is that ID or Bethesda will do absolutely nothing

A solid lock-on to the head through the wall, right after teleporting.

I hate to say it, but it looks pretty damning.

yup

With quake champions, the quake pro scene has basically become the counter strike one. Where cheating is the default, not the exception.

In quake live, the top players were untouchable. When a top 4-5 player fought someone lower in level, the result was almost a given.

Quake champions seemingly gave all the mediocre players a sense of starting from 0, where everything was justified, every jump in performance and aim skills.

Now apparently the top players have started cheating too to keep the edge.

Now everyone is hitting as hard as Toxic (harder in the case of Base and Serious), and so many players seem to have that tendency to track the opponent trough walls even if he's way outside of hearing range.

CNZ is cheating too. He was an absolute nobody, then when he toggles on his game sense and confidence skyrockets, he always knows where the opponent is, and hits like a truck.

The way CNZ trashed Cypher, and not only in the finals but in previous matches too, is absolutely ridicolous.

All players that suddenly became top players at 30 and gained new powers somehow.

covid + no jobs and money = gotta cheat for food

sounds like just hipster vegan f00d not the r34L d34L flesh tiger >_<

So base used cheats in the finals in Katowice to take 3rd place? He took his cheat software to the PC on the front stage, with cameras pointed all over him? Give me a break ..

I'm so tired of this trite, old, "lan" remark from oblivious people.

Yes, it's totally possible to cheat on lan.

Yes, it's actually EASY.

Yes, it's EXACTLY what multiple CSGO pro players did in the biggest scandal of the sport a few years ago.

EVERY mouse today has an internal memory. When you plug your loaded mouse into the lan pc, the mouse automatically injects the cheats.

NOTHING pops up on screen.

And you don't need to open and browse "The L33t Haxx0r Mega Menu" to toggle cheats on/off.

You simply press the button you assigned to it, like for example mouse4 or whatever you prefer. If you're comfortable enough and don't think you need the aimlock wallhack, you won't even have to press any button, you'll just get a faint magnetic aim assist/stabilizer. Completely undetectable even if you have the camera 10 cms from your screen.

At no point ANYTHING, EVER pops up on screen.

Like, i don't get it. Do you think cheat devs are stupid? We aren't talking about script kiddies downloading virus infested spinbots from pirate bay to beat their cousin in call of duty.

We're talking about 30 years old+ programmers with full blown PHDs.

It's 2020, not 1999. Cheating is a multimillionaire business today.

The best programmers get paid tens of thousands of dollars by the top players whose 6 figures final prizemoney is at stake.

LAN = clean last made sense when players were using mouse without internal memories, like the WMO, and on pcs completely disconnected from the internet.

If you suggest I believe cheat devs are stupid, I'd like to suggest you believe that the players, the whole staff at LANs, and everyone watching is stupid.

The players would be stupid because they'd risk their entire career for a minor advantage. Anything more than a minor advantage from let's say aim assist during hitscan weapons would be really obvious, .. because if for example a rail fires without a mouse button being pressed, that would mean they would be instantly detected.
Maybe you're not aware that pro-gamers' main income isn't tournament prizes these days, but sponsorship. To piss their contract away for a 1-2 places higher finish at a LAN final wouldn't make sense.
Also, it would be in the interest of the non-cheating players to point out the cheating players. They would also be the most qualified, since they know the game in and out. So why is no pro player pointing out other obvious cheaters? Please do not go full tin foil on us here with something like "they're all cheating, it's a conspiracy".

The organizers / staff would be stupid because, as you said, there have been very public incidents in the past. They know what to look for.
They can test a player's mouse any time they want.
They can also check real-time, or via records from multiple camera angles, if a player's mouse movement corresponds to what's happening on screen.

We have been through this. Your argument that there's cheating even at LAN finals does not make logical sense. I hope at some point you come to the same realization and abandon it.
And if we follow that logic and consider the fact that players like base perform just as well offline as they do online, then it doesn't make sense that they cheat online either.

If you suggest I believe cheat devs are stupid, I'd like to suggest you believe that the players, the whole staff at LANs, and everyone watching is stupid.

They aren't?!?!?

Are you aware all the risks and downsides you listed apply word for word to professional sports world, wait, it's even worse there because steroids actually have potential health drawbacks.

So, how's your doping free sporting world going? Not very clean, is it?

Not even that - there's plenty of people lying about being clean just in everyday life - no competition, hollywood role or youtube channel. No, just taking roids but ends up with mediocrity and will lie out of embarrassment while nobody will even begin to question them because they're mediocre.

Exactly! Everyday people cheat and lie without any financial incentive. Just for the sake of it, just because they can't accept their life, and a million other bland reasons.

And when you add extremely competitive personalities like in sports and e-sports....

You should have replied to my arguments instead of bringing up this nonsense. Well, maybe you shouldn't, because a direct counter-argument against any of my points would have been impossible.

But okay. USADA and WADA testing for example works as follows: you are required to be available for testing 24/7, making your current location known at all times. Staff can visit your any time during the day or night, and you will have to provide them with fresh urine and blood samples - meaning they will watch you piss in a cup, or draw blood from you.
Athletes are tested up to dozens or even hundreds of time a year.
The technology is so far that even miniscule amounts of metabolites of some compound can be detected. There is no performance enhancing substance that cannot be detected today.

Sure there are some isolated cases of athletes who try and fail. Those people are called "idiots". They are deluding themselves and are ruining their reputation in the process. If you cannot see that they're not representative of the whole field, you're one of them.

You WANT to believe sports and esports are clean, and so you do.

But the mental gymnastics you're doing in trying to defend the indefendible are simply spectacular.

I answered your question, which was: why would they cheat, and why would they not get caught?

YOU, instead, can't disprove what i wrote.

You mention USADA?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH!

Usada is a fucking joke! Everyone who's into sports knows that!

Look at this fine specimen: Paulo Costa, AKA "Captain America"

https://www.google.com/search?q=paulo+costa&a...NNR3KvAYNM

He's been tested more than 30 times by USADA. Never failed once. He even literally jokes how usada "can't catch him" on twitter. And they don't, indeed.

Another fine completely clean gentleman, who at the tender age of 40 looks like this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Yoel+romero&a...2Z9CzrmnVM

I can go on all day long.

Don't talk about USADA to me if you're trying to claim cheating is impossible! You're making a fool of yourself!

Again, like I asked you in post #42: what sense does it make to risk your whole career for a slightly better tournament placing, which would represent only a tiny portion of your income as a pro-gamer?

How do you reconcile the fact that cheating software as professionally and brilliantly done as you claim it to be, and as it would need to be to be undetectable even for minor use, would cost a fortune, much more than what it would be worth to the player, and probably even more than most pro-gamers could afford?

Why would QPL risk losing its reputation in rampant cheating scandals, when it is so incredibly easy to determine if player actions (mouse movements, buttons pressed) correlate to what happens on screen, if there are any suspicious presses of secondary mouse buttons that would indicate aimbot activation, when it is so incredibly easy to check a player's mouse, ...?

As for your USADA related claims: so athletic looks are proof that someone is doping, despite stringent, technologically advanced testing? Okay.
What exact compounds do you suggest these athletes are using? You do realize all anabolic steroids on the market have been developed last century, right? What exact new wonder molecule is it that some 3rd world semi-pro athletes have exlusive access to, that all the rest of science is oblivous to?
Even SARMS can be directly detected today; and even if not, they show up in tests via secondary effects to natural hormone levels.
You also realize metabolites of these drugs stay detectable in your system for weeks and months?

I'll leave you and your little tin foil hat gang alone now. All that needs to be said has been said. I suppose you'll continue to squirm around the arguments, circle-jerk and re-affirm each other. Who knows, one day you may see the light.

Have you heard of... Lance Armstrong? Or the Olympics?

what sense does it make to risk your whole career for a slightly better tournament placing, which would represent only a tiny portion of your income as a pro-gamer?

You can ask what sense does it make to kill or rape people too, but the fact that 99% of people can't give you an answer for the actions of 1% doesn't invalidate the existence of the 1%.

Fucking ask Sombra, KQLY... ZeroQL. Yeah I think cheating is retarded too, so you have to ask THEM, not me.

You are right. No one is cheating. WADA is doing a good job. Those UFC guys just look athletic, nothing out of the ordinary there.

Since you are such an honest and intelligent person, I want to gift my entire 250 million USD fortune to you. In order to make that happen, I need you to transfer 10 000 USD to my Western Union account.

But I already loaned all my money to the Nigerian prince. =(

Say it. Just say it: "I want to believe they're all clean".

Repeat after me, loud: " I want to believe it's all clean and all right in the world"

Oh by the way, whenever someone like you mentions tin foil or conspiracy, it sounds exactly like this:

"I have nothing valid to object, I concede the argument"

You can say this loud too.


You're the guillable tin foil hatter if you think the olympics or the UFC are clear.

As for your USADA related claims: so athletic looks are proof that someone is doping, despite stringent, technologically advanced testing?

not 'proof' but actually yes looks can be first signs, such as gyno, 3d shoulders, extreme muscle fullness coupled w/ very low BF%, etc.

it's not about how advanced the testing is... it's general corruption like with everything else in the world. you are very blue-pilled on this topic. PED usage has always been rampant among pro athletes.
I would suggest watching a lance armstrong documentary for starters.
also, always apply basic logic: there are millions of gym bros in the world who will use steroids for personal reasons (insecure, body dsymorphia etc.) or youtube fitness fake natty-s to sell programs/supplements, despite being aware of the potential adverse health effects especially long term. so, you think that when there's millions of dollars on the line at the top of athletic competition, they won't grab any and every advantage they can get? of course they will.

However cheats in videogames work, it has been accepted by anyone knowledgeable about sports that in modern sport, what catches cheaters is investigative work. This means that things like piss test are there to catch the stupid and give you threater, in USADA's case an overaggressive, overinvasive theater to make the sport appear clean to sponsors who might get squeamish at the sight of blood.

maybe we should put webcams behind the playerse looking at their screens ... :-) ...
and a mouse movement recorder :-)))

In reply to post 46 by stoneeh: You are horribly mistaken if you think athletes get tested dozens of times a year. Many athletes go years at a time without getting tested. You live on a different planet of you think otherwise.

Source: Was a drug tested collegiate athlete (only tested a couple times over 5 years), "drug tested" powerlifter (never tested while active), and know plenty of others who compete at world levels in various sports that have never been tested even though testing is a possibility.

Anything more than a minor advantage

going from 35% to 45% LG + guaranteed clutch rails + guaranteed directs at close range + enemy detection via aimlockl = minor advantage?


Why would cheating at a LAN final make no logical sense in Quake, when

Also, it would be in the interest of the non-cheating players to point out the cheating players.

Just like it has happened and is happening in the csgo pro scene, right?

The organizers / staff would be stupid because ...

What's the business model behind catching cheaters?

going from 35% to 45% LG + guaranteed clutch rails + guaranteed directs at close range + enemy detection via aimlockl = minor advantage?

How fucking hard is it to get into one's head that anything beyond a slight aim assist would be painfully obvious to anyone watching? How in all the world would you come to the conclusion that you could get away with autoshoot and wh / aimlock on a stage setup with multiple cameras pointed at you, the screen, and your mouse?

What's the business model behind catching cheaters?

Preventing a scandal that completes invalidates your game? If it were to be revealed that cheating is rampant, good bye QPL. I think it's in their own best interest to prevent that.

It's kind of infuriating that you don't see that not investigating is the most sure way to avoid a cheating scandal. It's why it's called a conflict of interests.

How fucking hard is it to get into your head, that a "slight aim assist" will make a massive difference in the result?

Why on earth do you think that a cheat has to be turned on permanently and in an obvious manner? No one (except you) is talking about wallhacks and ridiculously configured aim/triggerbots.

It's painful clear you have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about. You've seen some call of duty spinbot video on youtbe and think all aim assists must be like that, otherwise "why even bother if it's only 5% more"

No, any decently programmed aim assist is completely natural looking and undetectable by the eye. It just looks like stable, snappy aim. This is not 2001. We're in 2020. Third party cheating softwares today are smarter and more sofisticated than the man in front of the screen

+dont forget hardware hacks in mouse + keyboards

often its just WH or anti recoil script -_- sadface 2020


FUCKING KISSANIME GOT CANCER ;_; thats sad
not QC

qc was and will 4ever be fail as Q4 :[]
but dont regret buying it ...

get rid of all client-side netcode and make the game fully server authoritative like rocket league. this will make lag feel like absolute shit and anything above 45ms will be unplayable, but it's worth it

hwid ban and ip address ban for anyone who gets detected.

a very invasive anti-cheat like esea/faceit for csgo, with full ring0 access.

2 factor sms authentication. won't have the same effect as in south korea, since people have to actually use their equivalent of social security number, to get a cellphone number. but it will still be very tedious, especially for young kids.

sue anyone who is making cheats for your games.

for lans:

no cellphones at the table or on your person

no bringing mice or keyboard with you. you tell the organizers what you use, and they will provide you a fresh set of peripherals.

absolutely no usage of usb ports unless authorized by a referee. the referees should ideally plugin everything for the users and monitor them to see if they do anything.

the referee must install any mouse drivers required, and only from official sources provided beforehand.

the players internet usage should be tightly restricted. no browsing the web and especially no downloading allowed. anything downloaded other than a game file through the official ingame client should be an immediate disqualification.

While I generally agree, will add few things:

CNZ was not that bad in QL, totally not just below the pro players level, but played on a decent enough level to not be a shocker if he plays decently in QC after a lot of training + Cypher is mostly playing other games and not QC.

Also worth to note is that in QL you start with 100HP and that's it, no armour + you can take all the armours even if full. In QC you start with a lot of armour based on your class + you can't overstack so you basically need to leave armour for the enemy when in full control. This sounds small, but it's not.

Serious - played a lot vs him back in the days when he started QL. Was like in the time span of a year or so, he steadily improved his aim and general skill during that timeframe. One can argue that he slowly turned up the aimbot, but tbh given how he aimed/how he could miss (double when you know his gamestyle/what angle to be and so on - normally aimbot would not care how you approach the fight). So yeah, I would not go as far as to say "100% cheat omg omg" outside for the obvious match vs a bot player when he used cheats.

Ofc just my 2c, not facts or anything.

a leaf....

Canadians are worth 3/4 of an American

Canadians are American, you fucking imbecile.

Yes, technically, but Canadians don't refer to themselves that way. Only people from the US.

Everything is a joke compared to the Spanish Empire anyway.

Please don't lump us in with the Americans.

thx

:)

No... Theyre something else.
French

Now that's disgusting...

Yeah Americans are rotund

once a cheater, always a cheater. That is pretty damning evidence.

I always knew this POS cheated in QL and he does the same in QC.

btw, isn't it funny that the thread on reddit on our "free" and "democratic" reddit forum got deleted? :-)

It says, "Sorry, this post was deleted by the person who originally posted it."

hmm, prolly used his community nickname and fears the backtracking :-)

Here is cnz doing some tracking behind the walls
https://clips.twitch.tv/FlaccidExquisiteSardineAsianGlow

That's a pretty unnatural lock-on onto the enemy behind walls. It can be explained by sound knowledge and crosshair placement though. Just a little fishy

It's dangerously easy to jump to conclusions when spectating with thru-walls enabled. Everyone who ever played QL for some time would have been found "guilty" of wallhacking a thousand times over if QL had this feature enabled for specs by default. And then you have to factor in the distrust and contempt that some people have for certain players (nex1 now thinks cooller wallhacks xD).

There's been so much random shit I've done over the years where I thought afterwards... "fuck I hope nobody was spectating me just then lol", I don't even want to imagine what it looks like with thru-walls enabled, even shit I wasn't aware of.

Exactly. that's also why I put the short 'disclaimer' at the end. This is not proof, this is one fishy situation that might amount to something when more pop up, but else could be a fluke.

Also, the spatial sound in QC is really bad. In QL you had clear sound cues and with map knowledge you could easily know where your enemy is.

In QC you literally have to face your enemy to hear if he going left or right. The spatial sound is messed up, you have to aim at you enemy (even through walls) to have a clue where he is / will going.

When I first watched QC (started playing later) i thought they are all wallhacking because they aim at the enemy trhough the walls.
When I started playing i soon realized why.

That clip alone doesn't look particularly fishy. But CNZ has been consistently suspect for quite a while lately, and he's one of those grown up veterans that has played quake all his life and all of a sudden experience a "burst" of skills.

That can be explained by investing a lot of time, grinding the way up. With improving in mind, setting goals to achieve and carefully chosing tougher opposition, leaps in skill are pretty normal, but on a months basis, it takes some time.

His response
https://imgur.com/gallery/2HqNTxC

Lol

then why did he have hmg in hand instead of rl if it was meant to spam rl

nah, he's a cheater, also the lock is perfectly onto the head, pause the clip, watch it in slowmo etc

this isn't an accident, others clips of cooller k1llsen etc have really simple a logic explanations, and they play quake for like 15 years now at least

but gnik ? idc at all that he cheated tbfh, cuz atm idc much about qc neither to anyone other than the very best at qc duel

i'm not even "mad" about gnik, like i said i couldn't give much fucks, but this clip is 100% proof

> then why did he have hmg in hand instead of rl if it was meant to spam rl

I think he meant that he was spamming the RL pickup, not spamming with the RL

But it doesnt make much more sense if you ask me, Ill believe it if someone can find vods of him doing that move in the past but really it still would not make sense to me

Assuming he was spamming the RL pickup in order to prevent maxter from picking up the RL for free:
Gnik got the initial spawn next to RA, maxter got mh spawn, picked up RL and after that fired a rocket in the hour glass room next to the rail that gnik 100% saw land
A few seconds later, Gnik takes the TPand spams the RL pickup in order to prevent his opponent to get a weapon he already has for free...Taking the risk to reveal his position to Maxter who could very well be hiding behind the wall next to RL waiting for Gnik to pickup a major weapon Gnik didnt have i order to trap him...

I only recently started playing quake again, so I might be missing something but that situation really only make sense to me if he pressed his aim lock button and tried to cover it up by spaming RL with his MG

Yeah... if he truly didnt cheat then at this point I dont know what to believe, maybe yuka was right and a g9x is what I need

If he does that move semi regularly, it should be pretty ez verify by watching Gnik QPL vods to look for him spamming the RL on molten

I personally dont care enough about it to do it, I mean EU qpl is already something I dont watch often so lmao at watching NA qpl featuring Gnik

Why are you even replying to this nex1 guy
Agenda and mental issues + jealousy...

who cares, its qc

makes perfect sense that gnik would cheat.

he's 0-16 in the qpl league, failing to win even a single set.

he's overweight.

he's cheated 3 times in ql.

he's a bully to lower skilled players who beat him, or even just frag him once in a way he doesn't like. he has an outrageous ego both on stream and off stream.

he has to stay in the league to collect the pitiful 1000 a month that they pay every shill for this shit game.

he wanted to advance in the tourney to get some of that coronacon money.

that clip is just the icing on the shitcake.

i want to stress especially, that he is not reformed from his cheating days and still has an appetite for shit talk. ex-cheaters who talk shit are very special in the head, like serious. but for gnik, it's even more psychotic behavior. i feel sorry for any new players who interacted with him.

well 10+ years Q3/QL > 5 year studying Psychoanalytics

and Cognitive Competitve/RANKED Sh00ter brainfuckeria :F

Quake player cheating and there's 10 dumpster fire arguments going on here. STFU and [+] me. smh.

No, no! Plus me!

Look at them whoring themelfes out like that...FILTHY PLUS DUMPSTERS!























...better plus me instead :>

+ 4 +

Because no one outside of a few quake nerds gives a fuck. The only reasons to follow this story is to expect a statement from the QPL that is hilarious for all the wrong reasons. Otherwise it is just depressing if you love competitive fps.

What mice come preloaded with cheats and why have I never seen it advertised like the aimbot sites do? ty

they come with internal memory and an embedded cpu, meaning they are advanced usb sticks that can be modified to usage not intended, like holding cheats on them with a smart propagation mechanism.

early mice with memory (which could save and then execute on button press complicated macros) were deemed cheats at some point. there were also bans in rts games for that, cba to find links i'm not payed by esr to write here...

What preworkouts come loaded with anabolics and HGH and why do they never advertise it before some top athlete pops from "tainted supplements"?! Thank you

Macros n cheese

I also remember a few years ago in Q3 and when QL was in beta/ fresh release.

That a whole bunch of Russians would be speccing games but be sitting in a teamspeak/ventrilo server with the one Russian player playing the duel and giving away positions and timings to almost 99% accuracy.

Those were the days.

it gets worse. serious just announced his comeback to quake champions. he's going to try to qualify for qpl when it restarts. he's another one of those ex-cheaters who bully people that are worse than him, while at the same time raging at those who beat him as being cheaters, or abusing a character to win.

he is extremely delusional. he rage hacked on quake live supposedly because he couldn't handle being accused and wanted to quit. couldn't even defeat weird yet he has time to talk about gaiia being overrated, and cpm being an easy game with aircontrol physics. trashing quakeworld community, saying how he could easily beat them in a few months. falsely equating old netquake to quakeworld, in particular saying thresh is proof that qw players are easy.

a player that has cultivated a cult like following around him and his tracking aim, similar to heartless but unlike heartless he doesn't bring it to esr. and in all honesty that's his only advantage, because qc has a ridiculous lg width to compensate for the horrendous hitreg, after they got rid of the parkinson's lg. he totally ignores the 'new' aspects of quake champions. doesn't even try to play with abilities, or abuse tribolt, hmg, shotgun, nailgun etc. he just tries to win with rl lg and rail and play his quake live duel style of outaiming his opponent. and of course in these transatlantic tournaments, if he doesn't move to london during the finals, he won't even be able to attempt that style. by playing from serbia he's just guaranteeing 120+ ms as opposed to mid-70s in london.

the fact is that he is part of the wasted generation of young serbians who have no advancement in their home country, due to corrupt oligarchs wasting the country for over a decade. serious needs esports and twitch because he doesn't have other skills to help him live. so he's coming back to quake champions, a game he openly hates, to have the chance to play for 1000 a month. sad.

Mad cuz u bad?

that's literally the story of serious. rage hacked in quake live, and came back years later to quake champions to get destroyed by rapha, cypher and spart1e on lan. almost 2 years later he's giving a lecture on why cpm takes no skill, and why everyone who beats him is either hacking or abusing galena.

on the bright side, since there's no such thing as lan tournaments anymore, he can't get denied a visa within 10 seconds or whatever the fuck it was to go to the usa. like in 2019 when he wanted to go to quakecon. america's visa application process: the freshest meme of 2019.

I think most sports are not as attractive as they used to in terms of going pro ... as a non-elite pro there is just less money you can make than 2 decades ago I have a feeling ... most people cannot even support basic living and are dependent on their parents, etc. ...
I have a feeling chess got really bad for example, when I grew up there were IM's and GM's around playing chess full time ... I have a feeling that being an average GM or IM right now it's hard even to pay the basic living bills ... same for so many other sports ... in that regard QPL is quite nice with 1000 USD support

https://youtu.be/iagMyZsPaoE?t=441
https://youtu.be/iagMyZsPaoE?t=1223
https://youtu.be/iagMyZsPaoE?t=1694
https://youtu.be/iagMyZsPaoE?t=1828
https://youtu.be/iagMyZsPaoE?t=2022

Some may be just "mUh sKiLlz lOl"

Judge by yourself

https://youtu.be/iagMyZsPaoE?t=1828

lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iagMyZsPaoE&a...amp;t=1223

Pressed the aimkey too soon. He know he is coming, but got impatient.

These clips may be something or may be just someone who feels like using prediction rails. I'd need to watch whole games to say but cba (if he misses 5 prediction shots for one hit then this puts it in a whole different perspective).

It's a cheater playing in a cheatty way.
100% cheats.
PREPARE THE OVEN.

:)

lol now that i posted the video reminds me of even fucking DEFRAG has already had cheaters back in 2008 -_- [ 4 the bouncing stuff ]

fcking sad worse dumb than all QL CA/CTF cheaters combined

What was the name of that faggot cheating in defrag that was willing to upload videos of his hands playing piano but not of him actually running? He was in the most famous defrag videos too, he was a big fish in the community

w3sp?

Yeah that was him

How did w3sp cheat?

Basically there was a way to glue together a lot of shorter sections of a run, similar to like when in single player games you have a group of runners each doing a little section of the run.

Another technique was to tamper with the console physics speed, like you could do in quake 3/live for practice against bots, lowering or increasing it. If you lower to 0.5 you have double the time to react to things, when you then play back the demo at normal speed, even an average player looks like running around perfectly, clipping corners, hitting 50% lg and 70% rail and with pro reaction times.

The run was the one with the castle map, where he was flowing around in the air between the towers for minutes without ever failing, running trogh windows, columns etc. but there were probably others, that one was the most egregious one. (and also the most awe inspiring, which is why it hurt the most)

Who told you that, besides that alien guy?

It is well known that this flight over and through the castle is scripted. I did enjoy it and i guess that was the point. In Mario 64 speed running there is also a section for scripted runs.

Proof?

Can’t sry. When this movie was released i did a little bit of research and this was my result. I don’t have any sources. Maybe there is someone else on esr with knowledge about this.

Have you ever played defrag?

i am w3sp tbh

It's controversial but not "well known" that w3sp actually cheated. According to him,I think he said he worked on the castle free run for a year before getting something he liked. And while it is enormously impressive, I don't think there is anything impossible about it, especially considering how skilled people are in defrag. Watch w00dy's stream sometime and see what is possible given enough skill.

Also, many (if not all) of w3sp's WRs have been broken over the years. Clearly he was not approaching theoretical limits of what is possible. Personally, I am agnostic about any of the accusations of w3sp cheating.

But there is KOS's infamous public post where he said bending the rules was quite common in defrag... So I think, unless you are really pro, it is hard to judge as a mere mortal what is cheats or not in defrag.

Nzr0 is quite good at defrag, so I'd defer to him on any of the points above.

Comment #150 was meant as a reply to NzR0 but is an explanation why w3sp had such a success early in his career before he was banned in 2010.

Snaphud was discovered only a few years after (I believe 2012 or 2013, maybe 2011).

Because w3sp had no acceleration loss from tapping jump as even a botted run would have, he had unbeatable records but no one was optimizing the snap zones because snaphud had not been produced by iodfe for general use. Once Nt. Run had made snaphud in the Ioquake3 Dfengine called iodfe it became possible to master skipping snapzones.

Snapzones after roughly 800-1000 units-per-second speed become more important than any other thing when doing CPM runs and w3sp's records on CPM maps have largely been completely obliterated sometimes more than an entire second off his world record runs (sometimes more than 2 seconds), because snaphud allows people to maintain high speeds in ways that even w3sp could not.

w3sp still lost acceleration by crossing the 24 snapzones like an ignoramous. Which is not to say he was ignorant but that all of us were not aware why the accel bar went down each time a zone was crossed but only that you can skip these zones. Arcaon had a lot of success prior to the publication of snaphud just using the Accel bar and dodging the slow zones of de-accel (supposedly).

In the end, w3sp managed to not lose any accel using low-upmove exploits but failed to take the 24 snap zones into account which are very critical and the reason all his CPM strafe records have been beaten.

As to the castle run he most definitely scripted that. This level of precision was done using Replay cheat to replay and stitch more than one run into a full demo. Similar to editing a fragmovie like you've done but with the raw demo file (if you want to share it), as possible too.

Hope this was informative. While snaphud has a foundation in VQ3 as well, you will find some of his VQ3 times are still unbeatable because the effect of snaphud is more pronounced in CPM.

As to the castle run he most definitely scripted that.

Is there any proof of that or is it the same old "it's too good to be clean"?

Yeah i think the reality is if you can get someone of w00dy's caliber to waste endless amounts of time doing these circles and trying to reproduce it that would be a good baseline. Set a target deadline of 1 months because realistically that's a good baseline for how much time w3sp would have probably dedicated to this if it was done legitimately.

But either way can you really be sure he didn't do it by hand?
Can we really be sure it isn't a replay script seeing that you can Edit demos and compile them as well as movie images in such a way that they are stitched flawlessly together.

The fact someone was able to prove a replay script works of nebuLa's and Arcaon's runs combined into one .dm_68 demo file for the map dfwc2012-3 proves that replay script is very real. The damage done to offline defrag is substantial because of that and worse yet is that online there are replays you can program a bot to execute in a way that can look "naturalized." The damage to the legitimacy of Defrag as a sport cannot be understated. Shamil said that this is unfortunately the worst thing that could've happened to the game and I agree.

Sorry for the long response. There is no proof. There will never be any proof and I believe "too good, to be clean" is truly why I had said it.

We've seen some fragmovies conveniently stitch the same portion of the map together and make it almost look like an endless killing spree. You could even have trouble differentiating those movie stitches if the name of the Fragged opponent didn't show up.

It would have been nice if w3sp came clean to KOS or someone else but everyone claims he worked for 10000000+ hours to make this masterpiece. Only w3sp, and the Creator of all this universe know the truth (and maybe KOS and he is protecting w3sp).

I am sad that his Times Table records on the mDd site were wiped clean. I wish there was a flag at the time to just mark all his times in Red or say "Questionable." We know a lot of his world records have been beaten by legitimate players using velocity snapping in CPM. I just think it's a shame we can't see the world records he had sustained in that historical account because I would've loved to see the top players challenged to beat them all. I am certain all of them would've been beatable by legitimate means with today's skill, with perhaps one or two maps being cheated too far and that would've been fun to look for.

The times he had in his Defrag Movies that are shown to the public with hundreds of thousands of viewers are not very competitive and have been beaten in the next decade by many people.

Apparently he did cheat. It's not that I'm good (I'm not), it's just that I actually play the thing. And back in the day I had asked some of the best players if they think he cheated and none said they do. It's just hard to believe people who haven't ever ran the mod to tell me what is "well known". And that alien guy is in the same thread talking about how much cheating is going on CPMA CPM in duel... So even though he actually is a defrag player (and better than me) I still think he's a retard.

q3a proved it using a bot to script the same movements and coordinates w3sp had and the bot would achieve slower times re-doing the exact runs.
https://q3df.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&...rt=50#wrap

Low upmove exploit. He had zero acceleration loss from holding jump key in the air. Lowest loss you can attain is 8 ms (1 frame), most people who tap spacebar or mouse2 are actually holding it for a little more than a frame. New players for example hold for more than 4-5 frames if not longer while strafing, this in Quake Live and Reflex has no effect but in Quake 3 it reduces the acceleration bar. There is a proxymod that was created that shows how well someone can hold or tap jump that is demonstrated here (over and under): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBCmdClVLwY

Similar issue occurred in 2017 DFWC with Admin xajA validating second place VQ3 winner's demos Strangeland (also known as shine), he had perfect input for rocket jumps four rocket jumps in a row with jump + shoot synced to the millisecond. Most human rocket jumps are slightly out-of-sync between pressing jump and then firing at the slowest times, he later said he couldn't prove if it was scripted or some kind of trick like modifying the keyboard to push both keys at once or even gluing two keys together.

Here is how Farshmaker described the "upmove cheat" which is one of many cheats you can use in Defrag by hacking your engine, so note, w3sp had to modify his quake3.exe or dfengine.exe to make this exploit work:

"Changing jump accel by setting it to a value less than the one set in the engine, but enough to jump; allows you to accelerate with the jump pressed as well as with the jump squeezed.
Cheat is applicable online and offline."
http://q3farsh.narod.ru/FM_School/Cheating.htm

q3a proved it using a bot to script the same movements and coordinates w3sp had and the bot would achieve slower times re-doing the exact runs.
https://q3df.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&...rt=50#wrap

Low upmove exploit. He had zero acceleration loss from holding jump key in the air. Lowest loss you can attain is 8 ms (1 frame), most people who tap spacebar or mouse2 are actually holding it for a little more than a frame. New players for example hold for more than 4-5 frames if not longer while strafing, this in Quake Live and Reflex has no effect but in Quake 3 it reduces the acceleration bar. There is a proxymod that was created that shows how well someone can hold or tap jump that is demonstrated here (over and under): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBCmdClVLwY

Similar issue occurred in 2017 DFWC with Admin xajA validating second place VQ3 winner's demos Strangeland (also known as shine), he had perfect input for rocket jumps four rocket jumps in a row with jump + shoot synced to the millisecond. Most human rocket jumps are slightly out-of-sync between pressing jump and then firing at the slowest times, he later said he couldn't prove if it was scripted or some kind of trick like modifying the keyboard to push both keys at once or even gluing two keys together.

Here is how Farshmaker described the "upmove cheat" which is one of many cheats you can use in Defrag by hacking your engine, so note, w3sp had to modify his quake3.exe or dfengine.exe to make this exploit work:

"Changing jump accel by setting it to a value less than the one set in the engine, but enough to jump; allows you to accelerate with the jump pressed as well as with the jump squeezed.
Cheat is applicable online and offline."
http://q3farsh.narod.ru/FM_School/Cheating.htm

One thing missing from these discussions (or perhaps not) is the level of success w3sp had in generating things for the Defrag community.

He had created innovative routes and demonstrated in dfwc08-3 how he used the "ground boost" 2x to make a beautiful run. it was something known to some people in the community but not considered something that could be easily done and has now become a trademark defrag technique that every decent player has to know how to do (including ground boosting rockets off walls in VQ3 to get a faster RJ speed).

He made all the Plasma sections in tr1ckhouse-beta maps. This is the best guide on how to plasma and created the hardest plasmagun maps in the entire game w3sp PG ultimate (1,2,3). Only one player has successfully finished wpu3 and that is Shamil. No one even knows if w3sp was able to finish it without using cheats/exploits. Shamil had to use an overbounce script to successfully finish it as well (legal but suspect).

w3sp also worked with cgg on the game mod and contributed to the core Defrag mod code. Some even claim he had access to the Source code which is still not public (partly to prevent cheating).

w3sp created the strongest defrag clan at the time, which consisted of all legitament players [2337], It was only for the LEET most players and many famous names were in it, including some famous Freestyle players.

w3sp created the no-overbounce textures. Those allowed overbounces to be selectively available and made maps designed to have overbounces only in specific areas and thereby disabled the annoying accidental or random overbounces that can occur when Overbounces are enabled in the Defrag mod.

Lastly, w3sp demonstrated that there are many ways of strafing in the game that are non-standard. Inverted strafes, using forward key only and rotating along the axis, etc. You can find his tricks on YouTube where he demonstrates over 10 different strafe styles in one demo and does so flawlessly (including backwards). Was this scripted? Who knows, but it taught people a lot about the game potential and physics.

Overall: pioneer player, a genius, but someone who used everything to his advantage including yawspeeding, supposedly replay stiching demos, and lastly provably using low upmove exploit.

But what people and Russians especially remember him for is being the guy who outsmarted everyone in cups:

Take a look at this: http://defrag.ru/index.php?id=1023

CPM
Place Nickname Time
1 Germany -w3sp- 09.192
2 Russia uN*DeaD|ZERG 23.176
3 SouthAfrica RaneFire 24.112
4 Russia nL-Mystery 26.256
5 Russia BG-Rock 26.336
6 Ukraine vetal 27.280
7 Russia GRoover 28.656

Map: fks_vs_ice

A beautiful timer reset that left many Russians upset in this competition (small as it may be). And Golem commenting on that cup always suspected w3sp and it looks like he was proven to be correct. But what entertaining times they were in 2008.

Speed retaining teleports were also his doing, right?

Not sure the documentation is very sparse in terms of crediting people.

1.91.21 (around January 2013)
- add: SURF_NOOB (w3sp's submission)

defrag 1.91.12 (around September 2008)
- fixed inconsistency in 1.91.09 physics (thanks to w3sp for helping out)

I don't know maybe someone else knows what w3sp contribution to tele's or mapmaking is.

I'm only going by this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk3s9yuivaQ

Oh and here is the amazing demo of w3sp restarting the timer and doing an overbounce that I mentioned with YouTube link.

CPM
Place Nickname Time
1 Germany -w3sp- 09.192
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecVRedyP9Uc

2 Russia uN*DeaD|ZERG 23.176
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp0otYo6l4I


Map: fks_vs_ice

could you elaborate what "restarting the timer" actually is and how it's done (and why it was even considered a valid run?)

All Defrag maps have two elements when you play the non-flag modes, the start line and the finish line. When you pass the start line the timer starts and when you cross the finish line the timer stops and shows your time up to the milliseconds place.

When you cross the finish timer the demo stops recording and that is considered a finished run, that is the time that is labeled on the demo.

When Defrag was first created mappers usually had to think of different tricks to prevent you from circling back to the start timer for various exploits you could have wanted to do. The easiest was to make the start spot a independent room that is separated from the place where the map starts and the moment you enter the teleporter like on Q3DM0 for example, you spawn in the starting room and the match with the bot Crash doesn't really start until you enter the teleporter.

Eventually people created more sophisticated ways of blocking the timer such as creating invisible walls (clips), to prevent a player from being able to reach the start line once it's been crossed. Almost any Defrag map by Pornstar operates this way where the moment you cross the startline sufficiently an invisible clip prevents you from being able to walk back to the start line and what is behind it.

Some mappers whether intentionally or unintentionally chose to keep the startline unprotected by clips and not demarcated by a teleporter and instead just left it as it is. Defrag is a game about exploiting all the possibilities and it became second nature for players to exploit these moments by doing "Timer Resets," abbreviated as "tr" by the online community. In CPM many maps that allow for a timer reset became subject to players jumping circles around the start line to attain a starting speed that is higher than a normal CPM CJ which would be be 600+ units per second and instead start a map closer to 700 or even 800 by spinning circles around it. In some maps you have enough space to do this without reseting the timer and because timer-resets are generally considered "lame," the online cups made a new rule to ban the use of timer-resets from the online WarCups because it's considered lame. In some cases you have maps where you can pick up a rocket launcher or weapon during the run and go all the way back to the start line with the gun and thereby start with a weapon you shouldn't have even gotten in the beginning.

Some maps are designed to allow for timer-resets. This is a decision the mapper has to make. Historically there has never been anything wrong with a timer-reset and it's the secret to getting a really good time on many maps.

Watch this to see how n00k1e does a really cool return to the startline to superb advantage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArJkg7-lvd0

interesting, thanks

Hello w3sp

bump

the cheating overweight bully of north america has returned, and he's trying to qualify again for qpl:

https://liquipedia.net/arenafps/Quake_Pro_Lea...ica/Finals

although gnik was never truly apart of that na ctf/noghost instagib/ca circlejerk that existed for q3 and ql, he embodies all of the same mediocrity, ego, and desperation to be seen as "good" at any cost. you could already see it back in 2014, some guy who two years ago didn't even know how to aim and then all of a sudden is hitting 70% rail and 45% lg while playing with 80ms? all while evading his ban with multiple accounts? and then a few years later, videos of him defeating zero4 and dahang on youtube?

and then the worst part is that even though he's a cheater (banned 3 times in ql), a ban evader, someone who never even won a single set in the QPL league, he still talks shit. he still pretends he's 2 tournaments away from being the best player. he still has to bully the new players who dare to take one map off of him. and after all of that he's even willing to cheat and take away the qualifier spot from chance, sib, and davjs. none of whom are stellar opposition to the dahang-rapha dynamic that na has had for 12 years, but at least they're not cheaters.

he doesn't even realize that the time investment to become pro vs the actual money made, is absolute shit for this game. a game which he needed to blatantly cheat to win in and still lost, and against an argentinian at that.

Far as I'm concerned every "competitive" player should have a youtube account and be forced to upload their games from an external camera over their shoulder after their games.

1) Its simple and easy to do.
2) It will flat out discourage or stop any cheats from entering.

You'll never get rid of cheats or cheaters, so its up to the people who run these things to protect the integrity of the game and its players.

There's your solution, its simple.

Modern cheats are more sophisticated any layman could imagine.

The ones with the huge effort, for thousands of dollars are so hard to detect you could basically spectate right behind those players and never catch them unless they fuck up.

They do not use graphics hacks, no visible trace, they use sublte mouse movement or sounds for wallhack and humanized aimbot for tracking or headshots.

"They do not use graphics hacks, no visible trace, they use sublte mouse movement or sounds for wallhack and humanized aimbot for tracking or headshots."

That might be true in CS, but in quake, with its speed, level designs and game play variables, it would be a lot harder to play well enough to beat a pro AND<<< play for 10's of 1000's of frames without making a mistake in exposing yourself via the demo file AND the external video file over your shoulder.

Few things are 100% secure, its about making them more secure.

Without over the shoulder recording you really make it easy for people to cheat.

Came across this by chance from Sib

https://youtu.be/ANo5ql1tVZQ?t=264

Nice shot :)