Reason #6 - We don't need no fucking level up system to unlock a certain piece of shit in a fucking game!

Reason #7 - Every new fps game is almost the same. Not challenging fkin modern CoD clone. It's time to do something different.

The easy part is stating and knowing the genre needs something different. Now come up with good ideas?

hats?

honestly to revive arena fps games high budget, sponsorship etc. is probably needed...

1. Playerbase
2. Sponsors

that's how it works

The question is how to build playerbase in arena fps games :P

From the bottom you need solid leagues that don't cater towards prize money but are designed to build player basis through seasons that help players improve skill and map knowledge, by playing other players in their skill base.

As it stands right now the only way that is active is tourneys that seed highest against lowest seeds that should only be for the upper echelons of semi/pro players but since the player base in Quake is in perspective quite small compared to the big name games it just kills the new user base of competitive players.

Hence my Targetquake Duel League wish me luck and if it works well hopefully we can expand to Europe as well :)

Reason #8 - C O O L L E R

Edit: Because of people like Rapha or Cooller is what keeps it alive :)

So god damn fucking true.

Fuck auto aim

Reason #9 - we need FPS with forced clock going down to 0

Reason #0 - omgomg C Y P H E R

"timing the shotgun in UT is"

THERE IS NO SHOTGUN IN UT!?

Flak cannon?

Yes that gun is in UT. Shotgun is not.

But all the guns have shots.

It's called the Shock rifle which she mistakenly called the Shock Gun.

Basically ins is right, it's our alternative to it "in essence".

But i would like to point out that we got the "pitbull shotgun" though fazz :p !

http://www.vossey.com/gallery2/d/61014-1/Pitbull-1_1.jpg

This one is closer to your conception of a shotgun, it's an ut3 mutator though, not a weapon by default ofc!

Flak cannon feels nothing like a shotgun, and it bounces.. :)

Didn't see me countering that in my message after thousands of hours of ut , i think i know what it does =) .

Also, I said "in essence".

That's why i pointed out the pitbull shotgun which is a ripoff of a quake shotgun mentioning:

we got the "pitbull shotgun" though fazz :p !

http://www.vossey.com/gallery2/d/61014-1/Pitbull-1_1.jpg

This one is closer to your conception of a shotgun, it's an ut3 mutator though, not a weapon by default ofc!

This subgenre is starting to become a hipster thing among "gamers". They have never played quake or UT, still do youtube videos.

smiley face, flak cannon confirmed in reborn

Shotgun was actually in Unreal 2 actually :\ and that one sucked hard

i dont count unreal 2 as a unreal game :D

Then you are the chosen one

probably "shock gun" as in the shock rifle since thats what was shown in the video

I also heard shot gun but in the context it was unquestionably meant to be the shock rifle.

I don't have a youtube account. Why is nobody of you people spamming the video comments with quakelive links?

something tells me the next DM game will be class based. sounds like reborns game will be, and that's kind of the trend right now.

all the DM players are scattered. everyone agrees that quake and dm games are awesome but theres nothing new that's good enough for everyone to play.

something will bring all these players back.

In my mind everything comes full circle eventually its just a matter of time before Quake makes its resurgence be it as a standalone game which has new features incorporated into it or a newer version but the FPS genre has always been owned by quake and tbh I think it always will be.

Those are good reasons to have an arena shooter, but I think there are also some reasons why they have fallen out of popularity.

Most of the points were like 'fuck yeah we need hardcore game mechanics', but I think the average gamer 10 years ago was much more hardcore. Games have changed from a challenge to a more of a interactive entertainment.

I think the next successful arena shooter will be one that will keep the hardcore game mechanics that we all love but also wrap it in some more down tuned skin allowing also for much more casual enjoyment.

Some leveling system could work as long as it is not directly tied in with game mechanics. Possible level ups could unlock some vanity hat or skin like items, additional profile enhancements like similar to what steam has. This would give enjoyment to newbies for playing the game a lot but would make zero sacrifice to the competitive elements of the game. This would also allow to have some vanity micro transaction business model whilst keeping it free to play and avoiding any pay2win pitfalls.

Another focal point that would help tremendously would be making the game more socially oriented.

This again would not sacrifice anything on the competitive end and would make the game more enjoyable with a stronger community building elements, which might just help the plague of dilute player bases all arena shooters are having now.

Having more interactive and customizable clan. For example take the clan system of QL. It is absolutely laughable right now as in it only adds a clan tag to your nick and not much more. Imagine how much more it could do.

-Customizable clan page, allowing you to select your own professional looking logo, public news posts
-Match histories of some clan matches
-Visible statistics and tiers of players boasting the clan strength
-Public/Private chat channels for the clan for better interaction between clans and clan mates. The current situation that you need to have an external irc channel or add each clan mate as a friend individually to be able to interact with them is ridiculous.
-internal/external match making for in-clan practice and playing versus other clans
--probably many more features

This would actually make clans more fun. Would build a much stronger community inside the actual game, as opposed most of the community being on ESR forums which is more focused on the spectator part rather than playing part. Also the QL forums could also be tied in better with the game to allow and encourage easier interaction, again linking the community in more with the actual game.

Most of my suggestions/wishes are in the social aspects of the game. Because Quake as a competitive platform is excellent as it is but as a fun game to play it is very lacking as there is not much incentive to play apart from competitive scene, which can be very intimidating.

What I wish to see would be a merciless killers like cypher who cares for the most primitive features that allow him to compete next to some utter newb who has unlocked the new ZTN textures, bazooka models/skins and has a pimped out player profile boasting all his vanity achievements and unlockables. This would perfectly cater to both ends of the spectrum skill and have no real downside that hardcore players could whine about.

Also good social integration helps with the player base and longevity of a game. I still play sometimes some old Q2, not because I love the game, not because I am good at it, but because I have a friend group that we play with. Friends and social aspects are good reasons to return to a game.


I think a arena shooter upholding the values we loved from the 90's era of shooters would have a place in the market today but I am certain that it needs to be presented in a way that is up to the standards of today.

If only the arena fps community(CPM, Q3/QL, UT etc) would stop fighting amongst themselves that would be a good start.

Saying that for a long time now... Add to that "civil wars" within different iterations of each franchises.
I had a dream (c)... we would all unite in one big mofo and we would create the perfect game (ut/quake fusion). So beautfiul...

Best reply so far, have a [+]

in reality "the game that unite us all" will never happened. see the history in quake or other game francises. on the one hand i like this dream, but maybe it would be better to face the facts. change the engine, have a completly other game were veterans will moan about.

I know, it's the saddest =( .

Depends with which philosophy you approach that conception of the "perfect game".

-nr1=> the best for everyone (will never happen)
-nr2=> the best compromise of both worlds, that will please the largest part (still hard but doable).

Though, very unlikely to ever see an "Unreal Arena" where you could do air shock combo while rocket jumping =( .

FFT hit the nail on the head in his first 2 paragraphs of his reply.

Why is it that people are trying to create pure competitive FPS games rather then just creating a fun FPS game and creating a competitive element within that. UT and Quake 3 when they came out were fun to play, not because they had been designed solely on competitive gameplay which we have these days. There was ofcourse not as many games back then, however most of the successful types of games these days are ones that cater for the casual player.

Conpetitive FPS players seem to want ultra-balanced everything these days. That just isnt fun for a casual player.

Players should make the most of the tools that are available, rather then trying to convert things purely for a competitive aspect.

fun is the most important thing ofc.

but what is fun today, in fps mainstream games. the kids like easy & light-gameplay. extreme satirical things, that make no sense for the gameplay. bombs from the air, mighty perks, 50+ weapons but 2 overpowered ones that all will use. ninja silenced stand-sniper wookies that have heat-sight and look and shoot through walls. nothing a player can counter through tactic and behaviour. the developers give me radar and then it doesnt work against ninjas and silenced weapons :D

for competitive features there were mods. and it worked. casual players did baseq3 or instagib, the others comp mods. everybody got something out of the game. but fun players didnt participated in leagues and tournaments. it sounds arrogant, but casuals dont help a scene that wants more from a game. so a competitive community cant speak for casual players.

Ye i pretty much agree with :

for competitive features there were mods. and it worked. casual players did baseq3 or instagib, the others comp mods. everybody got something out of the game. but fun players didnt participated in leagues and tournaments. it sounds arrogant, but casuals dont help a scene that wants more from a game. so a competitive community cant speak for casual players.

Do the game "for everyone" and let an open door for a "COMP mode" that will be used in competitive play. Like CPM for quake or utcomp for UT (even though to my greatest regret, utcomp doesn't include major modifications of gameplay/physics when it would be needed).
It's really THE solution to please almost everyone and max out the possibilities =) .

99% of society in the world needs a major overhaul for any high-skill shooter to become popular again. There's no step-by-step program that will work in colliding the worlds of hardcore and casual. They're contradictory.

Long gone are the days of practice and determination to achieve greatness.

What we need is to stick it out and hope that a generation of people willing to work hard will crop up in the near future.

The only way to get people to get good at a shooter game is to limit the mods.
Quake was and still is beautiful, however the dumbed down additions to the game such as CA has pretty much ruined it. People want to get good at a game quickly, they don't want to put the hours in.

IMHO, Quake needs to get stripped down to what it first started out to be, a mass FFA/TDM shooter with Duel, get rid of all the other mods like CA or INSTAGTFO and maybe that'll motivate people to play it and get more interested in it. Plus the majority of us Quakers have grown up with the likes of Doom/Wolfenstein/Hexen. So we can appreciate the game in it's glory, but the new kids, are used to fancy COD gfx and shit, we should just make a HD version of Quakelive, add some wicked weapon effects but keep the physics and playability the same. I dunno, we need a new quake. :<