Why is every 'deathmatch arena' game trying to be Unreal Tournament and not Quake?!

Why do people on esr have such a limited amount of categories for games? Either UT or Quake, or if it looks fast: painkiller or CPMA. And then when it gets released complain because its not a clone of game XY. It should be obvious that arena fps games need to make a step forward to compete with sc/lol/etc again and this wont be possible by "trying to be Unreal Tournament" or Quake which already got maxed out pretty much.

This.

UT was more popular more recently~ better choice for attracting more brah

movement seems like PK though, hopefully it has air control so you dont lose speed when turning

Of course, you will always have the Quake purists who will absolutely hate anything but Q3/Q2.

But I'm really excited about this game.

Especially as its made by the same devs who make Trackmania.
I think (hope) this game could have a quite large community.

The very few moments we get to see of actual gameplay in the video looked fast - and nothing like CS, thankfully.

I'm hopeful.

Thanks for posting.

Time will tell.

I don't have much hope for Nexuiz but this one looks very promising.

I would prefer to play glitchy Battlefield 3 than this.

Knowing that the developpers love quake, i'm looking toward Shootmania. Plus those developpers are listening a lot to the community. I think it could become something fun.

In another hand they are trying to have a simple gameplay (like Trackmania). I hope it won't be too easy to learn.

no advanced movement mechanic = no fun

you dont use the full advanced movement anyway... except you play Defrag.

depends on what you call advanced, i've used in game phops, clipping, pg climb, rj's, circle jump, strafing, grenade jumps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqcY_SajX00

Only read half of it and haven't seen the video.. but it already looks very interesting. I look forward to seeing more of this in the future

It's supposedly good according to mr dallon

looks like shit tbh

so does quake 3 with a noob as the POV...movement seems to be like PK, could be fun on a less open map with someone semi-decent at movement

http://www.esreality.com/post/2250202/#pid2250056

movement seems like pk? lol

if it has something like picmip and brightmodels its good, if not its fail

I hope the players in that video are just terrible and there's more to the game than they've shown, otherwise it looks really slow and boring.

"Both firing and sprinting/jumping have separate energy bars. The stamina bar run out very quickly, as does the firepower bar (you can get about four or five rapid shots off before it’s empty) so timing is super important."

I'll pass

im looking forward to it, but i am really skeptical if the focus on map making with given components will work for a fps. it seemed natural to trackmania and i hope they will pull it off, but i am doubtful.

I don't see how this is even remotely like Quake other than having something called rockets and something called a railgun.

Looks sort of fun though.

Well it looks like a (relatively) fast-paced, unrealistic multiplayer FPS. That's rare enough these days that anything in that category automatically qualifies as 'similar to quake'.

The emphasis on easy map making and community involvement makes me think this is what the next DOOM game should be built like (obviously with a cool hellish single player campaign too), since thats what made DOOM2 such a long lasting success. The ability to create Co-Op maps would also draw in a different kind of crowd as well...

There will never be another game like Quake. I have had my eye on this one for a long time now though and the one thing that it has going for it is that the developers actually understand the importance of community involvement / additions / maps as it is what allowed their previous Trackmania series to grow to something like 10 million registered players? I'm sure they will manage to fuck it up in some way though :p

TM has a pretty huge playerbase, so it would not surprise me if this game is huge.

On the downside TM game mechanics are actually very simple so not convinced it will be any better for FPS, but they made up for that with crazy track designs, loops, turbo boosts, jumps etc.

So I reckon this game will be huge, nothing will beat quake for a purist though, but this will be worth a look I'm sure and they have their toes in a lot of esports pies/sponsors.

"TM has a pretty huge playerbase, so it would not surprise me if this game is huge"

TM2 isn't huge by any means... yet =/ TM got huge cause of its free to try / pay for full experience model more than anything I think. TM2 is pay only.

I said TM, you said TM2. You're arguing with yourself.

Quakelive is free, it still didn't get 10+ millions downloads or close to that. I'm sure this will be free too.

Right.. you said this might be huge cause TM was huge... and i said well that didnt hold true for TM2 so it might not hold true for SM.

ShootMania is part of the bigger ManiaPlanet project by Nadeo.. It probably won't be free, like TrackMania2 and QuestMania.

l2read

http://www.mmoraw.com/index.php?option=com_co...;Itemid=10

Its free!!!

You were comparing a free business model (TM) to a paid business model (TM2). part of the OBVIOUS reason TM was so huge is becuase it was free. Part of the reason TM2 was les successful was becuase it was paid.

If shootmania is free which it appears to be it will be huge too.
End of story.

Trackmania/sunrise and Trackmania 2 are something a bit different than the super-successful traackmania nations/ trackmania forever, which had the massive multiplayer, play for free thing going for it.

i think trackmania 2 will be more kind of like tm1 and sunrise...

I have voted with no confidence in this title!

looks totaly shit but it s made by NADEO so

wait & see =)

Well this looks decent. I just hope there's some form of advanced movement, because it looks slow now.

TRACKMANIA?

COUNT ME IN

SHITMANIA? P.S. u heard it here first

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpzaap_gamer...videogames

Strenx playing.

oh, nice!
pity that it doesnt have shaft or a machine gun.
i like that it does have deffs and attackers though...
it would be even more interesting if after a first round attackers have to attack another objective on another part of the map...hmmmm...and they set a timer for opponents's attack...and also wolud be nice to have classes like dudes with medpacks...and with ammo....hmmmm and also headshots ...and ww2 look...(but thats not crucial i think)

no LG is a good thing

kill yourself

uber crap.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq50xv_shoot...videogames

Final between Allstars and Old school.

:c

What has quake done to me? I just can't see myself enjoying this kind of game.
There are no arenas, just huge open spaces that allow for a dodgy rail game and lots of hiding behind pillars.

The next map is a bit more complicated. It's a lot better.

good thing theres a built in level maker eh
DM-Ironic coming to you soon

Ouch. I hope this is like... early alpha footage.

It is.

It won't change much if at all gameplay wise though, what the footage shows is what we can expect at the release pretty much.

Hopefully more modes though :D

Yes we definitely will have more gametypes. :)

You in alpha now?

Nah, I should be very soon though.

do you know if they plan to add a lightninggun/machinegun style weapon ?

They won't add such weapons.

shame :(

Okay, if they give you extra alpha or beta keys and they're hard to find I'll pay for one :D

They gave away approx 900 alpha keys at the GA and the alpha version should be available soon to the ones who got a key.

Sorry apparently I had it wrong, they are aiming to have this alpha available to the ones who got a key in June, doubt it will be a public beta.

Ah okay. Hopefully I can grab one somehow.

Found this.

https://twitter.com/#!/TrackMania/status/192620050904121345

I hope not. =X

this is so amazing, the rocket launcher really shines on the huge open maps, can't wait to play this awesome versatile game.

looks fucking shit

Finally a thought provoking argument.

Saw strenx playing last week, it seemed ok but nothing above that.

For some reason I find quake the most solid shooter out there. Nexuiz/warsow/shootmania/tribes all have some silly flaws that I personally don't enjoy.

But who knows, shit might grow on me, if the scene will be good/big enough, this might be the next big FPS game. I highly doubt it though.

as if quake was flawless :S

I don't recall ever calling quake flawless.
I do however recall calling you an illiterate stupid pole.
Get of my lawn.

either you just randomly write words and dont really have idea what ur talking about, or ur just the biggest hypocrite on this site...

Give the guy some credit, he gave you a pretty funny reply :D

Nexuiz/warsow/shootmania/tribes all have some silly flaws that I personally don't enjoy

i belive you did reply to wrong post :D

I was pointing out where you went wrong.

every game has flaws, stating you dont like a game because it got flaws is like saying u dont like vegetable because u dislike carrot... and its proof of uber retardation and hypocrisy...

now please explain why and where im wrong

All games have flaws. Does that mean we should not be allowed to dislike any game because of its flaws? This is ridiculous. There are degrees of severity. There are things that appear as flaws to us and not to others.

He states that the flaws of these games make them un-enjoyable for him. Apparently, this is not a problem with Quake. It doesn't mean Quake is flawless. I means the issues it may have are less severe are unimportant to him.

it means hes a hypocrite

I don't want to barge into this debate, but FlashSould and Rauvz made it clear for you to understand what I meant with my post.

please go be stupid somewhere else mr hypocrite

Since I'm looking forward to this game, I'll post what I know.

They're hoping for a public beta in June.

The videos you see are mostly 3v3. There is almost a 1v1 mode right now.

Gameplay is simple, but in a desperate time like this (League of Legends....) we should consider a game like Shootmania. This has the potential to do better than what Quake is right now.

I'll paste gameplay stuff that Winz talked to me about. I saw he got to the finals so I asked him some questions about the game.

winz• the mod called elite we've played for exemple
winz• is a 3v3 one, there is one team defending and one team attacking by turn
winz• the attacking team has only one player attacking
winz• the attacker of the team is also chosen by turn
winz• it's a 1v3
winz• the attacker is given a rail
winz• while the defenders have RLs
winz• and the goal for the attacker is to either kill the 3 defending guys or stay near the flag to 'capture' it
winz• and score the round
winz• the first team up to 6 rounds wins
winz• duel is very different from duel as we know it in quake/ut etc
winz• yes
winz• and 2 hits for the defenders
winz• duel has no items
winz• you both start at the very same spawn
winz• you don't have any weapon at start
winz• can't shoot him
winz• there are 2 pillars on the map
winz• that give you a rocket launcher with 5 ammos
winz• so you just rush it at start, once you've passed on it you are given that RL and can start scoring points by hitting full face rockets on the enemy
winz• you never kill eachothers, you just have to score the most points by hitting more than him
winz• half of the maps are railless maps
winz• when you have no rocket maps, you can't replenish it by just standing on the pillar you used to get the 5 ammos first

and this.

winz• They said there are gametype with a few items aswell to pick up
winz• such as armors
winz• I haven't played it though
winz• so can't really say how it is like

Search Shootmania on Dailymotion. Tons of videos on there.

They're obviously focusing on more modes, and letting users create maps. The game is spectator friendly too. The support for this game looks really good.

I really want in the Beta so if I find a way to get keys I'll post here.

Looks like a midgetporn version of ut really.

They're separated as "mods", not sure why.

No reason, it's just me not using the right word. I should have said gametype.

I'll change it.

Oh God, the more I hear the less I want to.

+1

you never kill eachothers, you just have to score the most points by hitting more than him

just that, is enough for making it a snooze fest for spectators

instead of mind blowing frags you will have what? The omg he is scoring well… What they were thinking…

No, that was actually a good idea in my opinion. That way, newbs will get to play even against much better opponents unlike in Quake where they would just get spawnraped as long as the game goes. It's much better as it's much more newbie friendly and they don't get to only discover all the spawn points multiple times each.

was talking about specs anw, but I get ur point

strenx perma-pinning someone to a roof does sound like a spectacle

perma-pining to the sky with a shiny spunk riffle.

I think that's taking it a little too far though.

For Quake players, yes it probably is but I think those kind of things are a necessity for the game to be successful.

It's the goal they are trying to achieve in the end, making it newbie friendly enough without dumbing it down too much so it stays a decent title for competitions.

Frankly, I highly doubt Quake players will like it (as proved by this very thread) because of the simplicity of the game but to be fair, you can't please the Quake community, if it's not a Quake3 clone it's not gonna be liked because people don't like changes.
This community is a very small and elitist one, they wouldn't gain anything by trying to please it.

And let's face a Quake with its high skillcap will never ever get big nowadays even with a very good support from the developers.

Either we like it or not, my opinion is that they are right to do what they do.

I don't want to see anymore Q3 clones personally. If id ever makes a new Quake it should be something much different. As different as Q2 and Q3 are for example.

But making something different doesn't mean you need to make it suck. And I'm not so sure I agree that a deathmatch shooter needs to be watered down to that extent (or at all?) for it to be successful.

what about something working kinda like hoonymode ? Be it the oldschool form or some kind of predefined spawn pairings - I have in mind a more complicated version using groups of 3 spawns but I'd struggle if I were to try to explain it here -

Hey winz,

I noticed you took part in that Shootmania tournament.

Can you tell us what FoV Shootmania uses?
Were you able to change FoV?


Thanks.

Nope you couldn't change the fov, I don't know what the fov was by defaut but it felt fine.

I doubt you will get to change those kind of cvars ever.

Thanks.

What would you estimate it was? 90?

That map you played, of which there is a youtube vid of, was that like the other maps? (did you even get to see other maps?)

What I'm getting at is if all maps maps in Shootmania are going to be similar, big, open maps?

Also, the reload time of that rail/instagib)rifle was about the same as the railgun in QL, yeah?

Hard to 'guess' the fov as they are both different games. Probably about 90/95.

No, some maps are different with closer space, you get to see the second map of the final here : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq50xv_shoot...rch_algo=1

The reload time of the rail in shootmania is 1.5 seconds.

Don't forget there is a map editor in the game aswell so it's very likely we won't be using the same maps we used for that tournament anyway.

The map editor : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBoPQIY110M&feature=related (it's in french but you can see a bit what you can do with it)

Thanks.

I sense that all maps are probably all going to be outdoors maps. Maybe this is so speccing will be an overall better experience.

So, this is definitely a low FoV and low sensitivity game.

Completely the opposite of what I play in Quake and UT.

But I'll gladly adapt to this game.
Just hope to God that they include a dot as an optionable crosshair.
With 12 years of FPS gaming, the one thing I never could adapt to was playing with anything else than a dot.

I'm one of the few here who thinks Shootmania might work out well.

I'm really looking forward to it! I hope I manage to get access to the beta, was dying to try it the moment I heard about it..

I also think it could be a success

Make sure to PM me an invite, if you end up with a spare beta key. ;D

haha, if I'm lucky enough to get more than one then I'll think of you :P

having a high skill cap and newbie friendly is not mutually exclusive.

The problem is not difficulty but skill matching.

on the other hand, the 1vs3 seems interesting, both for playing and spectating

http://www.rakaka.se/?newsID=19009

winz playing

This MoMaN guy is the same as french MoMaN SC2?

Yes he is the same.

The overview cam that is shown between the rounds would be nice for QL ctf and tdm (transparent walls where needed). Won't be happening tho :(

3v1. En attacker med instagib railgun mot 3 som spammar projektiler. Verkar astrist. Synd, hade större förväntningar på det här.

does it have hats? I will only play if it has hats.

hats are for tourists! oh wait..

You overlook the greatest aspect of this game, which is the possibility to customize almost everything apart from the physics and the display. Nadeo is providing the community with the tools, scripts, and basic physics, and people will do the rest. We can therefore expect fun, balanced maps and gametypes, and much more. Talking about scripting, Nadeo's boss once hastily said he could virtually make a tetris game for spectating dead players, giving them something to do. I already imagine gametypes with several arenas where different battles take place etc... the possibilities are endless.

This being said, given the fact that Nadeo has made a huge hit out of a basic game such as Trackmania, that Maniaplanet is a huge community platform, and that Quake, CS, TF2, and even LoL players enjoy the overall physics and sensations of the game, there is no reason not to be optimistic about Shootmania :)

No possibility of changing the display is... Immagin sucky Bar-HUD without numbers and fov 90 even if you are used to 105-110 :).

what about militia?

what what have u tried it dwag

no but I heard its the best new thing!

Events are already being organized for the game and it looks more and more like it's gonna be strongly pushed into esport by Nadeo but not only. The event 'Cyberathlete Summit' is an event organized by oxent.

Oxent is an innovative company based in Paris, co-founded by Antoine Frankart and Matthieu Dallon and specialised in electronic sports, services for video game publishers and on-line communities management. Oxent runs the social platform Gamersband.com and edits EsportsFrance.com. Oxent also produced in 2011 the ESWC (Electronic Sports World Cup) during the Paris Games Week. For more information: www.oxent.net.

The Cyberathlete Summit : http://www.cybsum.com/

I wouldn't be surprised if it became a main title for the next ESWC. I have to say it's looking good for the game with all this promoting.

a new trailer and you can sign up for the beta now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_e...okX-7VnHwE

http://www.shootmania.com/

Are there really only those two weapons - railgun and some kind of plasma projectile?

Well, it is alpha :P

This review goes into some of the features: http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/121/1219103p1.html

But things like:

"...weapon selection is directly tied to the terrain you are standing on...standing on a wooden environment tile results in mortar-based projectiles complete with splash damage, while planting yourself on metal terrain bestows a more powerful lightning gun...It's an elegant alternative to frantic mouse-wheel scrolling in order to change weapons..."

sound pretty crap tbh... As much as I'd love for there to be a new, exciting and popular FPS, I don't think this has enough depth or challenge factor due to the intended noob friendly design.

no wepon switching! far far too noob friendly. expand playerbase by a million or keep an ounce of skill in a game and i would choose skill tbo.
its really odd why sc2 has so much following and quake none. as much skill in both, but one hogs all spectators.
i guess its down to learning curve? sc2 maybe easyer to start?

SC2 is fun to play.

It is impossible to be insta-raped in SC2. :)

Thx, i hope i'll have a key :)

I like This part of the trailer best.
id should take notes.

The only problem is outdoor environments.

They have always ruined any competive FPS for me by making the scope for battle limited or gimmicky and this looks outdoorey!

Looks good in its own right though, but cant see it being the next quake which is the only thing that would ever ignite my interest in FPS again, unless the game had a strong visual them like aliens, or was technically off the scale like doom 3 was at the time.

Agreed, huge open spaces (e.g terra maps for quake) just make it look like a casual shooter that cannot be taken seriously in any possible way.

of course its going to take off, cuz its watered down garbage that casuals will eat up, fucking fuck.

I'm pumped :D

more promising than nexuiz at least

But not as good as Brink :-D

good and brink in the same sentence.

Fuck this newbie friendly POS will draw players from QL, you read it here first.

Looks like something I'd ram up my ass a boring friday night.

https://www.facebook.com/stermy/posts/10150919777832351

So he's not going to Dreamhack :(

if this gets real + big sponsors, he wont be the last one to switch..

The gameplay looks like shit so I guess it won't last long

True but I think it's worth a try anyway. But yea, I also paid for quake live so maybe I'm just stupid :)

Signed up for beta so I'll give it a try at least.

The features written on that screenshot are already real, it's even their primary focus, there is no if. :)

Would have preferred quake 5, but this is way better than nothing.

i like what i see here, can we just recreate ql duel in shootmania and call it a day?

Really depends on how it develops imo, railgun-only duel as shown in those videos doesn't seem very exciting.

>railgun-only duel

When is the game getting released? Can you preorder it?

fuckckckckckck why couldn't we have quake gameplay + everything else from shootmania :X

Alessandro "stermy" Avallone colwn (me linkin and winz) will be competing at SOPA and Cybsum together. Tox was supposed to play aswell, but decided to wait instead.



To bad :(

SOPA as stop piracy act?
Seriously? GTFO

http://sopa-lan.fr/

i heard it doesnt even have shaft

Alessandro "stermy" Avallone trying really hard to be next Fatal1ty...

What do you expect, eternal faithfulness to quake live? rofl

Why not just grow up and get a proper job?

Why do a braindead 8-to-5 job if you can earn money with something that you love?

Yeah, he loves Shootmania :)
I wasn't meaning 8 to 5 but what will he do in his fourties for example? Taking sport career is already risky, taking esport career without proper backup is stupid. Well, maybe his family has some business he could take care of but i haven't heard about Stermy's education.

I don't know him in person but I think that he loves gaming, esports and competition. Quakeworld was released in 1996, that's only 16 years ago. Esport still is in a very early stage of development and considering that people get connected more and more all over the world I think it's fair to say that it has a lot of potential to grow.
I would be heavily surprised if within the next 20-30 years esport wont become a money-machine, with serious organisations and "superstars" who earn way above average.
Btw, there are not so few people who got a proper job and a crap life in their forties :)

just hope it doesent turn like that Tribes piece of flying shit..

im afraid its the same thing by the looks of it. too much flying and open spaces.

oh dear

Just remake action quake

cs is, as you might know. Also I didn't like RQ3 much.

on the other hand I thought of playing a bit again only because there's a new version of "airport" called terminal.

really looks fucking awful ;/ gonna try it anyway i guess but bet its gonna be just like tribes (a piece of shit for those who dont know)

Any idea when one can try this game out?

how to get a beta key? i signed up, and now only wait? anyone being in already?

i guess you have to wait.

Also:

"About Storm, it'll be DRM-free (but an online account is required to play online) and it'll be a paid game."

This game needs 16 monotonous weapons, each of which supporting alt fire. THEN the game will be skill-intensive.

Faggots.

noob

I'm not going to pay for a game that only has two weapons.
The movement looks absolutely shocking as well.

Gonna pass on this one I think.

paid. lol. good luck with that.

looks stupid as fuck, but i guess this needs to be added to the website

just another game developer who thinks that dumbing down a game is the only way to attract newbs. lazy fucking idiots.

id rather see deathmatch gaming die completely than see something like this become an esport title. pretty sad tbh. o wells.

Well, I guess this game is too poor for pro-purposes.
Ok, it's "fast" (on bigger and largest maps), mostly wide open, and not a lot of objectives, even if you can create your own levels and modes.

2 weapons, how can the game be creative and designed for pros with only 2 weapons (all the more these rockets look more like plasma on quake).

Then, I guess two choices :

- This game is just empty and despite of their waiting, they won't bring a lot of pros on it.
- They expect that people create the game themself, add weapons, fun modes etc. Then the game won't be interesting on the last 2 years per example.

But it seems that pros are going on it, at the same time than DH, a Shootmania tourney is getting place and some pro QL players are going on it instead of DH. :/
Call of $ ?
(I can't found the url, sorry)

>some pro QL players are going

Stermy and strenx know that DH is really hard, so they choose an easier route with a crappy game full of newbs.

They're doing "a fatal1ty".

Nothing wrong with that.

Nope, fatal1ty is just trying to play every FPS on the planet and doing everything he can to win, even if it needs to play without any proud and honnor.

The problem is that many players are going on QL, not only Stermy and strenx. Cypher, Cooler and rapha seem to go there (not confirmed yet). Then if these kind of old school players are forsaking their game for this shit (well, they will just play on a tourney, that doesn't mean they will stop QL directly) ...

Wait and see. I just worry about the fact it could steal activity to QL, like LoL did.

yes it is. its cowardly and they are putting a knife into qls back

I'm not worried at all about this as a threat to Quake. Yes it will attract newbs since that is what it is clearly designed to do, but it has no depth.

A key aspect of what makes FPS games exciting is the architecture of the maps. Shootmania seems to be centred on wide open areas with a few "monuments" to break it up. Yes - the map making functionality will allow players to change that, but it doesn't look like the game will lend itself to intricate rooms like quake, if it does then hopefuly that's the way it will go, but with the lack of weapons and more importantly weapon-choice and the lack of items and advanced movement then it is going to be very very boring after a while.

There dosn't seem to be any way to progress skill wise once you've learned how to aim with the weapons, learn not to spam more than 5 shots at a time and learn some basic map tactics. Once newbs have learned that they will get bored and hopefully migrate to QL ;) It could be a gateway FPS!

Yes there are a lot of pro gamers jumping on the band wagon, but that's because they are pros and they want to make money, no shame in that. I imagine they are getting lucrative payments to play and showcase the game - after all look how much we are talking about the fact that Strenx and others are taking it up.

But none of this will last - look at Brink and that other flying FPS game (can't even remember its name its so crap). All expected to be the final nail in the QL coffin, but turned out to be disappointingly shallow and unchallenging.

Shootmania may turn out to be good for newbs wanting an easy shoot em up, but as an e-sport it doesn't currently (from what I've seen) have anything that will guarentee longevity apart from the map editting features - that could be the real trump card (ID pay attention!).

Omg we share the same theory :) [+]
Wrote the exact same 10 secs ago! Idd that id need to step up now!

Wrote my post here: http://esreality.com/post/2265714/shootmania-...ions-open/

In my view, aiming has alot of depth. That statement stands on its own.

Yeah and two weapons are enough too, as you posted on #154.

LMAO

Yup. Point and click.

A shitload of depth.

Actually, yes. In fact, I'll write a book about it one day. You'll see.

PS: I don't consider clicking to be a part of aiming.

actually I think you are more or less right. People over empathize the importance of strategy, looking over the fact fps games are mostly about who has the better hand eye coordination; just like most activities in which both skills and tactics are involved at the same time.

You could have the best strats in the world but that means nothing if the opponent hits twice as much and you can't strafe at all. Try playing with your left hand for example, or trying to pull off moves only Messi can do.

In the end that's what separates bad and good players, yet most people (90% or more) don't get it right even if they play for 10 years. That alone means there must be some depth into it.

Skill, but not necessarily 'depth'. Otherwise you could say the same about, say, those reflex-testers where you click a button when the light turns green. There's a big spread of ability there, and some people will never be good at it if they practice for ten years. But surely you wouldn't call it 'deep'.

Depth is the difference between the worst and the best. The bigger the difference the bigger the depth.

What you are thinking about is complexity.

Dude, some guys said the same thing about LoL. No skill, boring etc.

But see, there is a pro community on it and it has replaced QL on the IEMs because it has about 150k of prepubertal viewers instead of 5-10k of "almost true" gamers.

I guess it depends on the amount of pro-qlers leaving ql for it.

Wrong, it has replaced QL because Riot gave Turtle Entertainment the money to cover the IEM-Appereance of LoL and to do some other Cups/Leagues for LoL within the ESL.

id Software offered the same to TE (so they say), but they only wanted 3 games in the IEM not 4. Also I doubt that id could give as much money as Riot, cuz LoL is earning them shitloads of money because of all the noobs buying skins/heroes with real cash. QL gives almost nothing to id Soft.

Then LoL replaced QL because it has more stupid players spending money on it AND because more viewers means more money.

It's all about the amount of players.

it's also about how much they spend. It's safe to say less than 1% total players bought a subscription.

edit: lets check some stats QL awards.

- "Victory. Win an online match for the first time. 334397 players (12% of total) have earned this award"
That means there's a whooping 2,786,642 total accounts.
This is the extent of what I call the biggest mistake in QL's history, which was having network issues when the game went open beta and when it was finally released. Casual players created accounts but didn't play once. I'd have fired syncerror on the spot.

- "The Last Laugh. Get more frags than deaths in a game. 18924 players (< 1% of total) have earned this award".
This is by far the most earned premium/pro award. Using it as reference, 0.679% of players bought a subscription.
I know people might have re-subbed (second year) so the award isn't earned twice, but obviously not everyone did so less than 1% remains accurate.

Yes, but the amount of players allows you the diminue the cost of the paying options, and consequently, more ppl gonna buy.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1495692
Nov of 2011 : 32 Million subscribes, and 1.5 million connected everytime.

Then, 50% of the total QL accounts is the minimum of the number of players playing at any moment, and about 5 times more than all the "played" accounts on QL.

Then they can provide cheap paying options, not like the price of the Premium content on QL which is €24 to €48 a year.

But I agree, if id had anticipated the need of more servers, QL could have much more players atm.

Just clarifying some things:

There are about 70,000 active QL players, according to qlranks. It reset CA tracking about 3 months ago and now it shows 69,185 CAers.
Considering LoL's growth over the years, it should be really close to 50m total accounts right now.

My point was people in LoL spend absurd amounts of cash (even thousands, as there's always more things to buy) whereas in QL less than 0.1% cares enough to pay a small bit ($24 to $48. You can't spend more than that).
We don't have access to how many people spent money on LoL or how much, but from my experience it's a lot more than 0.1% and $24.

Cheap paying options are not possible since transaction costs are way too high for such amount, particularly in id's case.

And the network issue thing was on id's side (quakelive.com) and not on local game servers. At those 2 times you created an account and had to wait in an infinite queue to enter the website. I remember me and others writing about it before hand in the QL forums as it was obvious it was going to happen, but they fucked up anyway.
It may sound harsh but that's the proper way to describe losing 88% of your potential playerbase because of an employee mistake. I sincerely don't know how he's still working there.

There are about 70,000 active QL players

Accounts, not players.

still only 2 weapons? cmon

3!

what? what was the 3rd? only saw rl and rail

4, actually, a guy from nadeo told me they were about to implement a gun called "nucleus"...

What's the 3rd, then?

Afaik, the third weapon is a kind of grenade launcher called "arrow" but obviously you can't use it in elite mode.

Do you know what the Nucleus will be like?

Well, he gave me a small description of the weapon but i don't really remember, everybody was spamming the chatroom :S but i think it's gonna be some kind of plasmagun, i could be wrong.

Hylis from nadeo says a few words about it here: http://www.esreality.com/post/2265714/shootma...pid2268107

Thanks, man.

You're welcome :]

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-shootmania-storm/731069

"this is esports ladies and gentleman"
dont know if i should feel sorry for joe because he has to say shit like this or to be angry at him for actually doing it

WWEsports how the FGC calls it :D

They should've put at least 6 point score limit and bring players some chairs for god's sake.

how is it that games, as times goes on, tend to get easier and more simplistic?

suckmania

20:22 < SMES|roychez> First 4 teams for Cybsum announced. Teams featuring the likes of Stermy, Av3k, Cypher, fazz, fox, Stermy, HartS & more - http://www.shootmaniaesports.com/?p=221

looks like quakers gonna take over this game :)

rather the other way around

holy shit. I just hope they dont completely abandon quake.
I dont see ql duel type players having success in shitmania, looks to be very aim heavy like shoot a pixel no zoom rail.

easy money

*facepalm*

Hope they're getting showered in dough to put their names to that garbage game (at least in its current incarnation). See? I'm reasonable!

I hope id see's this as a threat and pulls there finger out to make ql to be the epsorts game it should be. There's obviously a market for it.

Now I know how Q3 players felt when their heroes flocked to QL.

:/

Stermy showing SpawN how to rocket jump

I'm in tears, and these are not tears of joy :c

I don't have much hope for Nexuiz but this one looks very promising.

It is not good. Its called "shitmania" for a reason.