They are having some problem with ingame and commentary lags. Not cool, not cool

MATCH PAUSED BY REFEREE

STAY TUNED

x100500

next match is at 14:45, should come on then! the interface in game is much larger and simplified too, looks like its going to be a decent game!

Er.. 14:45 CET was an hour ago.

This is like the spinning QL logo all over again.

http://tinyurl.com/msfhru

Who majored this shit in ESR category?
There isn't actually any "DOTA" category on this website, so this post shouldn't have been allowed at all! Where are moderators?

I'm chilling, dunno about others

Regardless of this site being mostly focused on the Quake scene it was meant to be focused on all of esports when it started and I don't think it's easy to not talk about a million dollar prize for first, and 6 figures for second and third place. That's a lot of money. I've never been big on RTS games or anything like this, just shooters and now, just Quake. But this honestly has me really captivated, I might actually give it a try now

dota is a rts..?

Sometimes referred to as an Action RTS, yes.

In the same way that Frozen Bubble is a "tactical shooter", yeah.

[x] real-time
[x] strategy

By that reasoning, quake duels are real-time strategy (and I don't think people would want that).

These are the main aspects of the game. Do you have a better genre for it?

I dunno. From what I've seen it's more of a tactical RPG than RTS.

It shares little in common with an RPG as far as the gameplay.

Then perhaps a new term is warranted, because it sure isn't a RTS.

It plays like any other RTS, and the main focus of the game is strategy.

Controlling a single unit isn't a strategy game (unless you consider quake one too).

You use strategy as a team.

OK then, quake TDM:

[x] real-time
[x] strategy

There are no turn-based shooters, so there's no need to point out that it's real-time. Additionally, you don't classify the genre as one of the game modes, but as the gameplay itself. DOTA is a strategy game at all times, and Quake is a shooter game at all times.

You can use a strategy playing alone.

... and?

Quake is a real-time strategy game.

You could say that those elements exist in certain modes, and when played in certain ways. It says nothing about classification to set it apart from any other game. You might as well classify it as a "push button" game.

I don't see how quake is any less strategic than dota.

Nobody said it was. This isn't a contest, it's a classification. The main aspect of Quake is shooting, and the main aspect of DOTA is strategy.

You are talking about different things. Strategy is inherently present in any game. If the main aspect of quake is shooting, then surely the main aspect of dota-like games is controlling your character and using abilities.

No, tactics are inherent in any game, which is what makes up the vast majority of Quake. Only TDM (and potentially CTF) use strategy, and that still doesn't describe the gameplay. Do you not know the difference?

Again, you're giving an extremely broad generalization to gameplay which makes no clear distinction for classification. Isn't Quake just WASD and a mouse? Isn't Quake played on a monitor? Sure, but that says nothing about the game. You're being dishonest about the gameplay in Quake, acting as if the classification imparts some inferiority, and showing a lack of knowledge about the game/genre which you are trying to attack.

I was talking about strategy in the game theory sense.

How exactly are you trying to define strategy through game theory?

As in "you have a winning strategy in game X". I admit I'm not the biggest fan of the name "RTS".

You just described strategy as I was saying, and it's not the same thing as tactics.

There must be something different in our definitions, as you said that only TDM and potentially CTF use strategy.

They're the only modes that can really be called strategy. "Get items and shoot people" does not count. Quake simply doesn't allow for deep strategy, as the game is played more reactive.

"Spawn, get LG, hit 50%, win" is also a strategy.

In the loosest sense of the word, hence why I would never refer to Quake as a strategy game.

That's the connection to game theory. The name "FPS" is much better than "RTS" for this reason.

Third-person army control (sim?) and third-person hero control would be much better.

Why would you use "third-person"? Are there any first person games in the genre? The only reason to have it is to distinguish between other games. "Army/hero control" are very vague about gameplay, unless you intend to split many other strategy games into even more genres.

Well, even if it might be sometimes redundant for fans of the genres, I think it's good to point out from what perspective we see the game state. Besides, I'm pretty sure that there are some old strategy games which feature a top-down view, in opposition to sc2's semi-3d.
"Army sim" isn't very specific, but it's certainly better than "RTS", in which the strategy part is so vague that it's almost useless.

They're all top-down/third-person. There would have to be enough games of a different perspective in that category to justify it, and there are none.

As I said, it's redundant. However, it might be informative for people who haven't played the game.

DOTA is a sub-genre of RTS...

MOBA - Multiplayer Online Battle Arena

Ye, same thing. Just forgot the proper name.

this is marketing, not esport...

very expensive marketing

1st place: $1,000,000 USD
2nd place: $250,000 USD
3rd place: $150,000 USD
4th place: $80,000 USD
5th place: $35,000 USD
6th place: $35,000 USD
7th place: $25,000 USD
8th place: $25,000 USD

once released, they gonna sign over 9000 players

You dont really what ur talking about, do you ? Cause i kinda i doubt that you have any idea how important marketing got in last couple of years in the gaming industry...
it's quite cheap in fact...fyi mw2 had a marketing budget of 200 million $...1.5M is nothing for a AAA game, especially for the hype it got

This. Also, lets not forget that lol is gaining popularity, especially after dreamhack. I can't see any other way to bring attention to game that basically is the same as the popular one.

This game would be more popular than LoL with or without the prize money.

you have a point Adel. but until now you didnt see so much money in a tournament.

I don't mind ESR to be focused on all e-sports. But posts should be placed into appropriate categories so that filters would work.

dota was nice in war3, so dota2 might be worth a try if they have keept the values :)

I rather spectate a random ffa server than this shit. boring.... and the commentary is very very very crappy²

are they trying to compete against quake spinning logo?

Source engine is awwwwwesome. Was watching earlier.

This shiznit is rumored to have around 2 million concurrent viewers. I'm a bit skeptic about that number but if it's true, e-sports has just reached a whole new level. Hope they release proper stats afterwards.

Bet ESL are thinking "we picked the wrong moba :x"

Sweet justice

They must have known this will happen.

Considering the season is going to be well under way once dota 2 is released (not sure when is it), with LoL actually paying their way and will not really be diminishing in popularity after this (not too much anyway), it was an easy decision.

considering dota2 is due for release in 2012, probably after IEM6 has finished....

But I guess it means not sticking with LoL/Riot in this case, kinda weird :)

2.8 at the start but stream kept dieing

Rumors are there are 3-4 million viewers.

Who are all those people???

well go on own3d everyday streams of LoL have 10times more viewers that quake lan finals..

Valve just confirmed a peak at the streams: 1.4 million.

http://twitter.com/#!/GosuGamersDotA/status/103850038014390272

if quake has 10k everybody is like woooow...xd

doh the resize thingy actually work... after a while :)

ok lets forget the bla about the price money.

the game itself is good? i dont play this genre, only thing i can see on the surface it looks better than LOL, dislike LOL over the top comic style. come on people, what your opinion about the game. and can it attack the LOL popularity?

you mean LoL ? :)

Yeah, I think LoL is such a homosexual game, most of my college gaming mates only play LoL and console games and this looks so much better than LoL

The MYM vs M5 game so intense, I think just watching that rape has certified my $50 buy of DotA2

I'll probably suck ass but this thing looks too good to not try

I never actually played any moba until 4 weeks ago, I tried LoL didn't like it, and went to HoN as even though I never played a moba before I knew its similarity to dota, as one of my friends plays it.
I've learn't a lot within the 4 weeks playing moba's, relatively easy learning curve once you learn the hero abilities, lane control and farming.
Im going to play dota 2, until I see another worthy FPS duel game, no UT down the road, QL is old now and I can't see rage offering any competitive potential, so im going to probably play dota2 even though I prefer fps games.

m-m-m-m-m-monster kill!

Not so new, huh?:>

ut!!!

it has been missed

I hope so much that this will bring togather all the Hon and Lol players :D

Looks very good and stable so far!

will give it a try, but i doubt it will keep my attention for more than 2 weeks or so like every other moba game i've tried

m5 should have sent a secondary team with russian quake players, just to let these dota players see skill once =)

You are trying too hard mate.

dota with new graphics, i got bored of the original dota quite fast. all these games are so zzz

1 million what?

Dunno why everyone is only focusing on the $1,000,000 for first place when the entire prize pool is almost twice as much, and pays out all the way to 8th place.

1st place: $1,000,000 USD
2nd place: $250,000 USD
3rd place: $150,000 USD
4th place: $80,000 USD
5th place: $35,000 USD
6th place: $35,000 USD
7th place: $25,000 USD
8th place: $25,000 USD

I wonder how much money players will really get, I mean what cut their sponsors/owners of the teams take from the stake.

Most teams are usually 10-15% afaik.

Not likely for this tournament? If a team from a poor country wins, I would believe its a very big chance that the team manager takes off with everything :D

Btw, if every team decided to split the entire prize pool evenly, every player would get 20000$ each! So sick

For na'vi if they win they can actually retire :P

since according to google annual average wage in the ukraine is like 2500 $

I'm pretty sure the same goes for most of the Asian teams.

Horray for the esports bubble!

2,8 mil vievers on stream in one time..........

would love to see a country distribution of the viewers, where do all these people come from? o0
is it dem crazy asians?

Considering 9 (or 10) teams from 16 participating are from Asia, then yes :D

dotas main market is china yes

From the stream, they said that around 300,000 were on the English stream, and over 1 million were on the Chinese stream.

Such an awesome start to a tournament, great quality games, hoped better for mym but tbh stepping to that stage where they are hiding behind the carry playing EHOME/LGD/NV.CN strat in 6.67 doesn't really fit mym's strength, let's see how the game goes now, when they have a really strong push.

Would be interesting if 1st place got 1 million and 2nd got a pat on the back

I like the way you think, and have a close up of both teams in the final to see the crushed reaction of the losers.

DOTA 2 looks nice. I couldnt stand watching LoL or HoN. But Dota 2 looks more clean and easy to watch.

:o

This is literally JUST LIKE dota 1 besides better graphics/spell animation/smoother you could think of it like transformation from q3 to ql was like another client in dota, dota 1 to dota 2 is actually something different and it seems like alot of people will play it as soon as it releases, which is great!

you're a sick man :9

im evil as a motherfucker, just scared of doing evil deeds cuz forensic evidence is so damn high tech nowadays + lots of cameras n shit all over

:(

hahah don't worry CSI is just tv fantasy, most popo lack basic resources to fully investigate -- shit, umm not trying to encourage crime or anything lol

this could make fatal1ty crawl out of his hole.xd

it might if he lost some weight

A million?

Holy fuck

I agree with the other poster daniel.

Quake has kind of lost its shine for me. I am a far more casual gamer than I used to be (and I would like to admit).

I haven't tried LoL or Dota 1, but I think I might try this game.

Pubbing in Quake Live is just a headache right now. People with colored names talking crap with each other, 50 clan arena servers, and a bunch of rail whores and campers on those. Ugh.

so winning team receives 1mn and second, and third 0? :D

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2135597#pid2135597

HoN, LOL, DoTA are completely spectator unfriendly, just like WoW. People who don't play it, didn't try it, don't understand shit what's going on and most of them don't care. I don't get how such games can bring millions to the stream.

me neither :(

China.

about 6 million outside of china who plays dota1

lol, i'd like to see a reliable source on that

google it

in the time before ql, some q3 ctf players that played pickups, were addicted to dota. its not china alone.

It's the same with every game.

You wouldn't understand shit of what was going on in quake if you had never seen it before, same for starcraft etc

I would after 2-4 games, especially with good cast. Both in Quake and SC (1v1) it is really easy to follow every move/action in the game, quite frankly every FPS is super easy to understand. WoW/DoTA clones aren't, even with good cast. The action is too spread out to catch everything.

It's not easy because you wouldn't know the geometry of the 3d maps, and be lost all the time. It would take way more as 2 to 4 games to learn a average map layout. Let alone all the different maps that are played.

Also the whole concept of tactics, and why it takes skill to hit certain shots would be totally lost on someone who has no understanding of the metagame or how the users input translates to what happens on the screen. For all they know hitting 60% lg / rail might be average.

Could write a similar story about starcraft,

5on5 or 4on4 FPSes are not easy to follow, not at all.

not being funny but if you didnt like quake you wouldnt stay to watch 2-4 games because you wouldnt appreciate what is going on during some 1-1 game 5 minutes in

how comes that there are 2 NEVO teams in there?

they dont even have their web domain anymore.

Well I played a bit of dota in that era between q3 and ql and it was ok-cool to play with friends on TS. I was not particularly good and not really that much interested in the genre.

Then since last december I got hooked up on lol because all my friends/flatmates played it and I must say playing with 5 friends really gets addictive and well their whole system makes for addiction (gain levels til lvl 30 then you can play ranked) and gain points so you can buy champions (every next week a new set of free champs are available for play).

I will deffo give dota 2 a try tho, looks a lot better than hon. I understand nothing in hon, it's all messy imo, the buying-item system is a mess and the gfx full of flashy colors everywhere like its saint sylvester makes my head in...


edit: lol is also free to play unlike hon and that's probably the main factor to making it THE moba game now in terms of popularity.

Hope dota 2 is free...

As far as I know HoN is free now?

If it is now it is much too late to be. I remember I paid 25 dollars to get this crap and now ppl can just have it for free? Such a rob :)

I agree, they changed it to late for it to have any success. :>
Had they done that from the start LoL could possebly have been the game with lower playerbase.

beta signup is open..

Do games in dota2 take 90 minutes on average as well?

I've seen a few games today and they ended in ~30-45 minutes time iirc. I might be a bit wrong, as I didnt pay that much attention at timer.

no lol, those are the LONGEST games ever. 95minutes was the longest of highskill games, it's probably around 35minutes avarage in the current metagame... I've wathced around 2,5k replays

...the fuck? 2,5k replays with 35minutes per game makes about 2month in total.

I don't think you watch them on 1x speed. But that shit is addictive, when I used to play dota I favoured watching replays before playing. Watched like 500-1000 replays on 2x speed, increased to 4x when there wasn't any actual action :)

With the prize being so high, neither team wants to make any mistakes.

i was hoping it would be more of a new game rather than a re-skinned dota1, which im bored of already and dont feel like going up against dota1 teams with 8 years of experience. i remember playing dota1 in the beginning and thinking its quite ok with friends for a laugh but you'd have to be retarded to take it as a serious competitive game.

People are taking LoL as competative and dota is a far better game.

whats wrong with dota as compeditive game?

that competitors are fat retarded nolifers?

just got back from work and laughed hard, thanks :)

i sense an hostile attitute... tell me, am i right?

fuck man, valve or blizzard, pick up quake plzzzzzz.

meanwhile nordic games (a totally terrible dev team) picked up painkiller...

http://www.nordicgames.at/

There are some rumours :)

Gabe Newell: I’ve played Dota 2 for about 800 hours. The cool thing about Dota 2 is that it’s probably the game that we’ve made that we’re most obsessed with playing. As a games developer, you tend to get pretty tired of the thing that you’re developing, because you had to experience all the flaws and the difficulties all along. You sort of reach the point where you’re like ‘Let’s just be done with this.’ Dota 2? Every day, after we’re done working on the game, everyone goes home and plays it till 2 or 3 in the morning.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/08/17/gabe-newell...800-hours/

pr

I'd believe it - gabe is a huge WoW nerd.

You guys know how there are gay pride parades? Well there should be weed pride parades. There's just no reason for weed-smokers to live in the closet. Learn from the gays - parades work.

There is a weed parade lol. Ever heard of 420? Not that I've been in one.

They should make a new dota map. This one is getting old

This is how you do streams... take notice people.

http://www.dota2.com/tournaments/international/?l=english

except they're casting a 1M $ tournament on what sounds like 2 $ microphones

I was mainly refering to the website and stream options.. (i was watching on mute so I didn't notice the casting :p)

Yep, from few games I've seen, the sound quality is horrible. And somehow when heroes use ultimate or some spells (not all included) they are 2 times louder then casters. Considering one of them always starts rattling when action takes place you can't understand shit whats he's talking.

The casting quality in both respects was bad sure, but the competitive features of the game itself are pretty amazing.

the sound quality is horrible

heard they cast using an ingame feature for it

Just started watching, jesus christ they failed with the mics..

mineski looks like they are about to do an amazing comeback and win, if any of you are struggling with the steam, the SD stream works better!

absolutely epic timing on the stream lag.

ALL vods will probably be up tomorrow since all the vods besides EHOME vs iG I think EHOME will probably go to the wb final even though they won MYM, I think NAVI/M5/EHOME are the strongest atm that you should definately follow. iG vs Navi will definately. Hoping NV.Int will do better tomorrow, ggs for today tho

I miss your brutal and sexy play in quake

my pg spam seems to enjoy someone \O/ :D but I would play if it still interested me, I watch every event and it TDM is looking only "okish" but still small playerbase/not much changed/same stars

scythe with an upset just 20 mins ago :)

I missed it - how was it?

it was a good game to watch, not as good as the iG vs OK.Nirvana.INT (from thursday) - that game was like WTF??????????

Yeah, watched the game, Navi vs iG atm. Was surprised to see sven+lina combo not working for EHOME O_o

seemed like they got picked off too much, and chronos, oops i mean, faceless void was raping shit up

id could have given 10mln when quakelive was on release and we could have like 100k daily players instead of 17

fucking boring, to say the least

Holy hell, the finals are bo5? Is that normal for DOTA/etc? @_@

ye, do they play the same map 5 times if needed ??

As opposed to playing a bo5 on different maps when there is only one map?

the variety is not in the map, the variety is in the picking phase. it is crucial how a team sets up the picks/bans and it can go in many different ways, for different strategies.

pushers/gankers/lategamecarries are the main ones, during those bo5 it will be a fight of the strats between the 2 teams.

They've played bo7 in some tournaments in asia

Damn, that's a whole fucking day.

hehe yeah, bo5 if LONG (quality) asian games will be played. It will take like 6-7-8hours 5games :/

azn ricegames

nevermind

quite entertaining tbh. btw does anyone know what player excitement is? is it like his heart rate or something? if yes, then its a really cool idea oO

yea its heart rate monitored by wrist bands all the players have.

kind of interesting to see that there hasnt really been any significant levels of excitement in the players

I hardly understand dota, but that last game Nirvana vs MUFC seemed pretty exciting/back and forth.

Although sometimes I get the feeling that one team has already lost but just drags out the game for another extra 20 minutes or so, hoping for a miracle. Which isn't good for spectators. (I understand the amount of money involved here, but still).

DOTA2 will be the most competitive of the MOBA games

HoN is getting retarded updates and imba heroes all the time, pay 2 win has been adopted from LoL (which i don't even have to state why is just awful).

DOTA2 will be as big as SC2.

GG FPS GAMING

DOTA2 will be as big as SC2.

You sure???

duh.

itll be bigger. china > korea

I had my doubts about 50 million population and 1300 million. Guess you americans need to fix your sarcasmometer :(

sarcasm never translates well over text.

Suuuuuure it does

wat does what now?

A game like dota can never be legitimately professional. You just target something and hit an ability. It's like having an aimbot. The amount of skill required in dota compared to something like soccer is pathetic. It takes no skill to move, it takes no skill to attack, it takes no skill to do pretty much anything. How can esports be taken seriously as sports when they take no skill?

you're straight up retarded

no he has a different disorder be more respectful dude

you're mother is promiscuous

your stupider

Have you played the game? Aim/movement/strat in dota isn't the same kind of aim/movement/strat in q3 and really that should NOT be the expectation.

so, wtf is LoL?

Laugh out Loud afaik.

League of Legends

OK.Nv.INT look like they're gonna make it far and possibly win EHOME Today O_o

Edit: jinx who knows!

Wow, great comeback by EHOME. Ganked a ton in the early game, but their late game is solid.

Too strong defence they m5 couldn't push after the 30minute mark, and weaver really capitalized on that and perma-farmed. Nice decision to give away the aegis and pushing the lanes

and again!

rofl, insult to injury with the smiley face item drops

http://portal.aecorp.in/2011/08/valve-wants-t...very-year/

“We’re streaming these events on the web, and the next step is for people to be able to watch these games in their client,” he said.

... but I'm sure Quake doesn't need GTV.

"Streaming of the games on the web is already a feature "

if it's meant as they said it, that is awesome aswel. maybe like the ggpo thing a while back.

Bet for the finals would be pure awesomeness.

Yep. Go Na'Vi! :D

I thought about betting for EHOME. P:

Gotta love the american flag to choose english language.

gg grats navi !!!

grats navi

DOTA > LoL/HoN in art style and ability for specs to follow the game. I can't make heads or tails of either of those shits when i specced it.

While watching this shit i just realized it's like starcraft, except you're the actual tiny niggas, like when u make a reaper, YOU are that reaper.

So its just 5 of them killing random monsters for gold and making shit in their bases.

Pretty simple and action packed.

Na'Vi !!! \o/

gj NaVi
proud of Puppey \m/

vod of the finals?

dota 2 looks good =)

The whole idea of a $2mil tournament is wrong. Let's say Zenimax put $2mil into QL. They could use $1.5 mil a year to run weekly, $100 tournaments in over 300 arcades around the world. At the end of the year, they could put the other $500,000 into a world finals. Top finisher from each arcade gets to compete.

That would be far more effective than a single, invite-only tournament, for a mere 16 teams.

stop looking into it too deeply! it was simply a 1 off 2 million dollar tournament for the pre launch of the game, you won't see events with prize pools this large again!

I'm from Malaysia and I can say dota is a very popular game in Malaysia and Singapore, alongside games like CS and other mmorpgs. The game is highly promoted and played in local LAN cybercafe outlets all over the country, and are usually networked nationwide though paid private LAN hosts like 'Battle LAN'. Cybercafes paid for these platforms and the customers can connect to a lot of games smoothly, where dota shines particularly.

Some of you wonder where did the millions spectators came from, I think it's mostly from China and Asian countries like Phillippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia. Of course, not lacking are the Europeans such as Denmark, Ukraine, Russia, and also USA.

Playdota.com is the official forum with strong community presence, although the members actually make up a minority of the total playerbase, since it's in English and a lot of skilled players I know don't even know this forum exists.

Unlike RTS such as Starcraft, or FPS such as CS, I believe the personality of the heroes is what made the players relate specfically through their favorites heroes to the game. A Starcraft player might not relate himself to a Zergling, just as a CS player will not relate himself to the rambo terrorist. However a dota player can get attached to their favorite hero, say Drow Ranger. When other players say something that belittle their favorite heroes, they will defend them. There's over 100 different heroes. Imagine that.

Each game can only play a max of 5v5 heroes out of that pool, and each team, each game's strategy is different from the previous round, since you might have a different lineup altogether. Throw in the bans and counterpicks and you've got a strategy game before the game even starts.

In the game itself, you have to decide who's going to carry the team, who's supporting, who's going to initiate battles, tank damages, push, defend, all the while countering enemy heroes by keeping them in check, outfarming them, outganking them, outpushing them.

These, I believe are the essence of dota, and what makes it exciting to the fans. Dota has a steeper learning curve than most games, and thus DOTA2 has introduced a new feature for master-apperentice, where a veteran player can guide a new player to the game. Truth be told, the players in lower levels of public games tend to be very unforgiving and rude. So just expect that when you're playing as a new player. Best course of action is usually remain calm, don't reply to the provocations such as "haha i pwned u noob". Try to not feed a lot of kills to the enemy, and DON'T LEAVE GAMES. A leaver is hated in dota, because it ruins a full 5v5 game. Some players leave when they are first blooded, or when they die repeatedly. It's better if you learn the game by playing with friends first, or AI computer players, to get familiar with everything.

Thanks, that was a very interesting read. You should register and make it a column or a journal.

indeed, I think when he talks about players attaching to heroes, I think its more eastern culture, I can't see US UK people doing the same thing. I only really connect to characters in say a mmo or rpg game were your character is part of the gameplay with all the customisation.

I'm not sure, it's just in quake you don't have much to connect to. A model?

In starcraft you at least got a race which has different mechanics.

I don't think esports should go this way anyways.

I don't care what anyone says, Dota 2 and the tournament was the shizzle. after day 1 coverage was quite good. And where I always used to watch GTV by myself, I have a few friends who also like dota, having a group spectate it on bigscreen tv on HD was awesome. Felt like a flash forward into the future where I'll go for a braai with my friends and watch esports instead of rugby :)

I liked how the whole tournament was simply just focused on the game - no marketing bs, no sideshows, no MTV crap like in painkiller days.

At high level, the team synergy/strategies are interesting and most games have an awesome flow to them - each game has a story (kindof like what makes test cricket cool), each game has epic/tense moments and it's a joy to spectate. I will play dota2 but i expect I'll end up spectating more than playing...

haha yeah, I went to my friends we bought chips+beer and plugged into the TV, commentary+ speccing that was awesome, and the vods were up almost immediately which was great :) overall AWESOME event!