first

b.a.p.

sup cl0ck

sup bitter dude who got raped at a lan

i dont think ive ever realy gotten 'raped' at a lan. According to most, ive never even been to one. Not that that would ever make me bitter.

So you are cl0ck.

whos cl0ck

lol

This is going to be awesome I reckon.

Very cool idea, hope it works out!

cool idea, normally i'd give a [ + ] but cl0ck posted it :X

it would be fun playing an european version aswell

How will the teams be picked? Normal one-after-another can result in massive imbalance in the case of 8 teams.

this. and if it is 1-1-1-1, it should be 1-1-1-1 and then reversed once everyone picked one.

Finnigans, really?

yes, one of the few people in america who thinks this is a good map happens to be an admin....go figure

Finnegans for Siberia is the most logical choice!

There is a significant portion of the community that is behind Finnegans. Most of the people that don't like it haven't even played it enough to know where all the weapons are, which is the problem with the new generation of players. If it doesn't involve rail whoring or if it takes too much coordination and teamwork people automatically dislike it.

So sad...

After this event, when people will be forced to learn it, it will become a much more common map. Just watch...

Maps I have never seen a team with cl0ck win? c8, c2....c7. Well, pretty much everything but Japs.

Maps cl0ck wants replaced: c8, c2.

A guy from q3 ctf with tons of experience on old maps likes old maps and wants them in the pool? WEIRD

Shining forces and Finnegans? Really? Maybe id_ or someone with experience winning on more than just the super old maps can explain why these are better choices because I don't see it.

dead on bro

Heh, why shouldn't finnegans be in the mappool? In Europe it always produced good games regarding team play. Just teams who are aim heavy usually prefer 'flag out, oh let's all rape mid and wait till he comes out' maps. Finnegans allows for less aim heavy teams to still put up a fight.

Look at the current offer of maps really, they can all be categorized under a simple statement.

c7 -> rush/aim heavy
c2 -> aim heavy/mid
c8 -> aim heavy (wait for quads, then go all in)
shining forces -> aim/defensive heavy
courtyard -> aim/defensive heavy
japanese -> aim heavy (rocket/rail) + spawn luck
stonekeep -> tactical (just too big for 4v4 ;/)
finnegans -> tactical

Why? Because always after a map is around for more than a month, teams start developing these aim heavy supportive strategies, where putting 4 aimers together will keep 0-0 for a long time, unless risks are being taken.

But it's obvious that in Quake Live u can't get anywhere anymore if u don't have good aim to support it. There's few to none flag runners anymore in Europe that can solely rely on their flag running skills (rocket jumps, sneaking etc.) without having to hit 50 rail, 30+ LG and good RL. Maps like Finnegans should be around to support less aim heavy and more tactical play.

In Europe we work with a remove, remove, pick, pick system now. Guess what maps get removed all the time, because they are not straight forward; def, mid, cap flag. Finnegans and Stonekeep. Most picked: Japanese Castles, Troubled Waters and Ironworks.

Japanese Castles mostly picked by teams who prefer straight forward play as in -> 2 box, 2 attack, support when needed.

Troubled Waters mostly picked by aim heavy teams who have two guys who destroy mid and one attacker who knows how to rocket jump in and out well (or torchjump).

Ironworks mostly picked by teams who prefer playing a solid strategy that requires the opposing team to take risks (recently 1 base, 1 fulltime red, 2 attackers).

It would be good to have a breath of fresh air in that, because CTF is becoming so fucking stale. There are no surprises anymore. Everyone is waiting for that one guy doing the most predictable rocket jump/move and the opposing team being too ignorant to know it's the same situation as 10 years ago. Bring some fucking new maps in that require at least a whole brain cell to play well on :/

Finnegan's to me seems too big for 4v4. I liked that map in Q3, but I don't think it works anymore. Not having 2 defenders means you can't really pick up your own items, but not having 3 attackers means you can't really overwhelm two defenders even with teamplay. With a 2-2 setup it's really slow and boring, with a 3-1 setup it's akin to playing the lottery.

And times have changed, people have gotten better, more versatile compared to early Q3 days and only being able to rocketjump/strafe just doesn't cut it anymore. I don't think that's a problem, that's just a natural evolution by people getting better.

regarding courtyard, it isn't really a defensive map anymore, at least not compared to what it was.

to me finnegans seems same as siberia, 2 min tdm until powerups spawn. rinse, repeat, doesnt seem like you need to use a whole brain cell for this one as well. talked with silencep the other day about p5, he says if you learn to play that map you can play any ctf map, i still don't see why p5 is real ctf map :S

dno, i'd prefer completely new maps in quake, instead of 10 years old maps coming back (branded as new ofc). why does everyone want p15 or p9? cause they don't need to learn the map or tactics. they played those few 3w maps for 10 years and used to own on those maps and in ql, with few *new* maps in map pools, those old clans are nowhere near where they used to be in osp+old maps.

just because 90% of ql community are old wankers that find it difficult to adjust to anything newer then 2005 we have to play the same old shit over and over again.

It's not defensive like it was anymore no. But how many teams can play it offensive, that is the problem. To play really offensive in Quake Live CTF, you really need 4 heavy aimers now that don't miss the important shots that break down attacks. How many teams have that? Exactly.

I can only think of lower division games where that offensive play could still exist. If you have two defenders hitting high accuracies and having good positioning, it is simply impossible to play offensive on straight forward maps. Unless you have two great attackers that can hit 5 percent more accuracy compared to the defenders to come out on top in fights.

YAWN BORING SWEATY FART

appreciate the breakdown...but aren't you known for being the sit-in-mid-and-rack-up-impressives, walking-turret, never-seen-enemies-flag-in-his-life guy?

Wait, I heard you joined clampok -- maybe clamp was able to teach you how to play ctf based on a few things viju said once.

Ah alright, so you are just grumpy. Sure my play can improve and yes I play c2 that way, because well.. it works? Every team plays like that on c2 and now teams are even switching to two mid to just play for the red armor.

I gave my opinion about the map pool, yet you attack my credibility, just because I play like that on one map that is removed out of the map pool for this event, just because it is being played like that?

I'm amazed that you know me and my play style though, usually streams don't spec me, because I'm just so fucking boring clearing mid for my team mates to attack. But I guess some one has to do it.

wait...i'm not done with you yet! you hold your crosshair above a jumppad for ~18 of the 20 mins and you're talking about tactics and brain cells?? child please. you're the type of player that is causing these guys to want to get rid of some of these maps in the first place! :p

but for real...if new maps come out of focus that are good then replace away, but not these 2 borefests.

Did I ever say anything regarding tactics on a map like c2? You don't know shit about me and neither my strategies on other maps. c2 is played like that in Europe and seeing as it is removed in this map pool, also in America.

If I am the kind of player that 'destroys' CTF gameplay, then the bar is set quite low, because there are far worse play styles currently in effect by other teams and players that force me to play the 'walking turret' as you claimed me to be.

stfu? instead of focusing on his playstyle atleast try to make an effort to disprove the argument he presented (in a rather nice way, if i may add). what's with the sudden hostility towards someone taking his time to make his point?

thats like saying, "stop calling heartless a troll and try to have a discussion with him."

Sounds like your accusing him of being a good mid defender. You look like a fucking idiot.

i dont see jones in this thread.

And what did viju once say? 'Crap, can't play offensive anymore on Ironworks, have to go for full Red Armor rotations till powerup and try to push for an attack. Till then I'll remain some sort of second def, because well, we can't have 2 attackers versus 1 stacked def, that's too risky.'

That transition happened a year ago, even the considered 'ctf gods' get pushed in a corner and are forced to play the stale and boring CTF that is in effect today.

I disagree with your assessment of p5 in QL. It isn't an aim/defensive map as I believe it was in Q3. With the weapon damage changes and the move to 4v4, the map is now very aggressive. It can be played 2-2, but that leads to the games as you described.

If a team plays 1-3, then it does shift the balance in their favour. They're able to put the other team under so much pressure that they will get the captures. (With a caveat that the attackers have a clear attack plan - someone distract high, one RJ into the raildefs face to occupy him, one go for the flag - for example).

It's possible to hold the base pretty securely with a solo defender and decent incoming calls. Playing 2-2 is overkill on the defense and just invites pressure onto the flagroom, which, ironically, they try to prevent by playing 2-2 :)

Take EXP-DP and the France-Finland as recent examples of the 3-1 style on p5; very aggressive, lots of captures, great fun to spectate.

I welcome you to try playing 3-1 against a 2-2 team that outaims yours.

A lot of that aim advantage is due to the weapons/positioning of the defenders, that put the attackers at a disadvantage IMO. Which they can counter with attacking pressure/numbers. Assuming the attackers aren't totally shit, then they will wear down the aimers and get the flag out more often than not. You're attacking 3 against 2, and the defenders can still only aim at once person at a time realistically. The point is to counter that aim with tactics.

If you're aim disadvantaged, you're not going to get 3 people attacking at once without creating a situation where your defender has to fight off two players alone. Running in one by one makes it even worse.

That's the risk you take. The attackers shouldn't be going in one by one. With the setup I described they should be going in within seconds of one another, or ideally, at the same time.

I don't think the 2v1 situation in base is going to be that big a deal, as if you've got 3 attackers, your team *should* be getting every RA, and if they're doing it right, they should constitute a big enough threat that at least one of the attackers should come back to assist the defence. Making it a 1v1 for your defender who should have a bigger stack, making up for the aim deficit.

If you have a clan, you're welcome to try it out against us. My money is on that it will not work.

definitely didnt mean to [+] this comment... nor is it true..

Well first of all I didnt make the maplist, not sure if you are implying I did or not. Second of all I love CTF2 and havent lost anything on it since I started playing again. Since you are so concerned with what I have won and lost, feel free to look at my match history. CTF2 is one of if not my favorite map. And just so I'm clear, because the tournaments I won only included 5 out of the 7 maps in the map pool, I can't explain why this maplist is here? Ahaha. Maybe someone with experience winning ANYTHING, on ANY MAP, could explain why your opinion about this map pool even matters? ahahaha.

Aren't you a CA player?

dude?? are you for real? I think its pretty obvious to even the Europeans on this site, that this is about you trying to get people to play old maps that you and old players have alot of experience on. Thats actually okay, but be honest about it and try to not be condescending at the same time maybe, especially if youre trying to pretend otherwise. I dont even post or come on this site anymore, and it was obvious to me immediately when i was linked.

Now maybe you werent the only person that 'made' this maplist, but obviously you had a major say in it. cl0ck and Knosses(eisenkreuz), 2 old q3 veteran ctf players. I dont know the history, but also id_ who was good at qlctf right out the gate, so probably an older q3ctf player also. Thats 3 old players from q3ctf who are behind this tournament. And "5 out of the 7 maps" ?? What exactly, are you fucking talking about? Or are you also trying to pretend that a commonly-used tournament map pool, that would have one less map youve never won anything on, and/or one less map(s) you've traded previous tournament games on against other top teams, doesnt give you an advantage?

This is obviously to get people to start playing potential map pools that favors you. FOUR of the five maps are old q3 maps. To me (an old player) its almost funny. This is really an old-school "revisit" tourney more than a "draft" tourney. The draft aspect of it is really only put in to mask the fact that the older players (who are preparing teams for quakecon) would just have an advantage at them right away. If you had even put Courtyard in there with all its recent changes, it would have looked like it was more open to 'trying out new maps'. As it is, it just looks like youre trying to make the community start playing maps you feel you'd be good on.


Pretty sure allmental would obliterate you in CA, with whatever team he'd put together. Even playing from the arctic or wherever the hell it is he connects from.

The map pool was mainly my idea. The reason c2/c8 are not in it, is because I feel they don't play well with respect to entertainment value for the stream/spectators.

It doesn't have anything to to with teams winning or losing...everyone will pretty much be playing on teams with players they don't or have never played with before; so I don't see whether anyone has won or lost on those maps have any influence in the decision for choosing the map pool.

add me to THE FOCKING LIST

oh how genious of you, but p5 and w3 play to the spectator value? :) it's even worse to spec those maps then c2 & c8. it's like speccin abso on dm6.

[+] for abso

explain

uhhh, not that it already didnt seem obvious, but clock explicitly said it himself that forcing people to play Finnegans this tourney will make it a common map. Dunno how seeing how many people dislike it, and thats only this thread. Maybe we'll just continue having it 'forced' in more tourneys.

i think allmental pretty much hit the nail on the head with his comment, maybe not in terms of pertaining directly to cl0ck -- but that group of players/teams.

Cloud.

As much fun as it has been over the past 10 years arguing with you on ESR and reading your random flames, I have come to the realization that I am just too old to be doing it anymore. It's been fun, I'll give you that.

The only other thing I'm going to say is that, again, I played absolutely no role in this tournament, I did not organize it, select the map pool, or even know it was going to happen until about 2-3 days before I made this post, when the admins asked if i wanted to participate in the draft itself and play. I made the post because the admins asked me to knowing that I have posting privledges here. That is it. On top of that, I merely expressed my opinions about the map pool, which yes, do favor it greatly. I do really like finnegans, I realize I may like it for reasons that most people will never have the experience to understand (like having it be the most played map when my team and I went to sweden for QLAN2) and seeing it played and playing it at such a high level gave me an appreciate for the map that I realize a lot of players will never have the chance to have. I also remember playing it back in 2000-2001 when the game was no where near as evolved as it is now and having great games on it that were fun to watch. How will it play out now? Who knows, but I think its worth a shot to atleast try it again.

As for CTF2, again- I have no beef with the map. I love that map. I think its ashame how people play it now, but what are you going to do? I still enjoy it even the way it is played. I wouldn't of minded having it in the pool.

Siberia- I don't know it well enough to form an opinion. When I started CTFing again a few months ago the new maps were completely foreign to me. I didn't like ironworks off the bat but felt that I really would like siberia. I now enjoy them both and wouldn't care if they were in this map pool. I think tis just good to play something new, it is refreshing. It is fun to play maps where you are unsure of what strategy to use or what will work, it sort of brings the game back to its infancy and gives people a more equal playing field, which is what this tournament is all about with the draft style.


I think It would be cool to have w2 played again, but oh well.

P.S. do I need to say again how I had no more involvement with this tournament than you have had?

so what you're trying to say is, basically, that you used your ex-pro status to influence the map pool and to piss off cloud? how lame of you.

"everyone will pretty much be playing on teams with players they don't or have never played with before; so I don't see whether anyone has won or lost on those maps have any influence in the decision for choosing the map pool. "

....

"the problem with new gen players," lol, really. Jeez.. like as if you were ever such a great "old school" player. (not that ur even 'old school'.)

But u know, of course cl0ck wants to pretend OLD maps are "new" (don't know the weapons? Well, maybe u dont remember them..)... its not like he can be good at much outside of q3 ctf.. if that.

Actually.....from watching cl0ck the past few times i've seen him on stream - i'd say he is a hell of a lot better than you _Cloud; and probably in the top 5% in NA for CTF.

if something its a massive problem for the old school players, not new school. 99% of the new players in QL want completely new maps, not some 'new' maps from q3

I don't like it that much and I've played that map since 2001. I just don't think it works that well with 4 players.

I wish id would stop recycling the old maps from 3Wave and get some new maps like Ironworks, which is quite frankly quite brilliant, into the pool.

And I wish oldschool players in general would stop pushing for old maps and formats (5v5, 3W maps, etc), probably because they're finding it difficult to beat the new players and teams and/or can't be arsed to learn new maps.

I support your statement of changing up the map pool and removing overplayed and stale maps. Just don't go for a remove, remove, pick, pick system like in Europe at the moment. Stonekeep and Finnegans will still be removed and you'll end up with Ironworks and Japanese every single game.

Our main problem is the old school players though, because they prefer staying safe and playing the maps that work out with basic strategies and aim. They cba learning new maps and it will remain that way till ID Software (or cups/leagues) decide to fuck the traditional map pool and set up a totally new map pool to play on.

Only new teams (new players) care to practice Stonekeep or Finnegans, for the sole reason that the opposing team (who is better) might not know it too well, because they cba to practice. In the end the 'better' team will win in a bo3, because there is only two 'new' maps and they will be removed asap.

i've no idea why cb stuck with drop drop first system. wrote on the cb rules comments to change it to pick pick, every team should be able to play their strongest map and against enemy's strongest map in order to win.

The majority of active players actually think this map is incredibly boring, single dimensional, and should have been allowed to die in Quake 3. Even when they re-released this map in QL no one played it, even on pubs.

Replacing Siberia, a map that was designed brand new for Quake Live, with an old boring map seems like a mistake. One could argue Troubled Waters is the same, but there are new tricks in the map in QL that make this map more interesting and dynamic.

As for Stonekeep, it has potential...but surprise, no one plays it. If they tweaked it a bit and made it suitable for 4v4 it would be a nice addition to the map pool. I still think this map is much better than Finnegans and cp5 though.

Excited for this event but I think removing CTF8/CTF2 was a big mistake. Hopefully no actual leagues, or even worse, LANs, follow this map pool.

Don't get me wrong, the idea of trying out these "new" maps isn't bad - adding to the map pool seems like a decent idea, the thing I disagree with is removing Siberia and Troubled Waters. I wouldn't mind trying CTF10 with the new changes... seems like no one in NA plays this map anymore, but it could be a viable map pool map... seeing as I don't expect id Software to release any decent maps for a long time.

COURTYARD is easily the best map right now! :))

This could be a lot of fun, draft tournies (if run properly) usually turn out to be a nice diversion from the norm :)

Quake 3 had successful draft leagues, I don't see why this one wouldn't work out. Now if only there was Spider Crossings..

Absolutely god awful map pool, probably knossos's bad idea, but at least the event will be cool. Still, no ctf8/2? Epic fail.

instin is back around eh

Aimhacking in 5v5 CA must have gotten old.

lol@hack accusations. Just give it a rest man.

If a real hacker that is obvious plays and hits 90 rail 80 lg then he gets banned.

If a hacker plays quake and gets 50 rail and 40 lg? Well he's trying to hide his shit, so now he is basically a high tier 4 player. Nothing to be scared about. Wallhack? just think of him as rapha predicting your ass and be ready to pwn him around corners or some shit.

Hackers trying to hide their cheat = still not as good as toxjq/stermy/k1llsen/cypher/strenx.

Sounds fun! If you guys do have a waiting list sign me up, Id like to start playing more.

I am starting a waiting list, idle the irc channel and msg me your ql name and email.

Why not have a signup on the website? i dont use irc.

Signing up on IRC is approximately one trillion times easier than doing so on a website.

when will you migrate to quakenet like sane people? :@

+d. also gay map pool. leaving ctf2 out is just fail and as boring as siberia is its a gazillion times better than finnegans or cp5. o wells still should be a good tourney.

ps: whos casting this shit?

pps: i wish idiot americunts didnt have the attention span of 5 year olds so this could actually be a league instead of a one night affair.

ppps (:)): the sad thing is this is like a list of 40 fairly good players, and theres some in the waiting list, and yet we dont have more than 3 or so active clans.

maybe im able to cast it. if the americans let me.

yes please

Please please please. not the god awful quake-live.tv casters..

Well jehar is pretty good, not greased though.

nailed it!

Teams like xUx take 25+ players and use maybe the same 5-6 every event. Spread out the players for fuck's sake. Make teams, even if it's just with friends, and learn to play as a team. Taking even a few weeks to practice is better than sitting idly-by in a team you never even play with.

both bo3 and double elim :S still, only 8 teams... might not last more then 5 hours :D

Like wonko said: all these draftees and this game only has a small handful of clans.. wtf?

CTF has become incredibly stale

cl0ck.... thats a problem with old players not new, most of us new players would like their to be no quake 3 maps in this game whatsoever. And finnegans is ancient..

Still waiting on those tornado + dies aries scrims btw.

Sign me up if possible cl0ck :P Always liked playing those usa games , more fun than low ping aim whoring tbh

something like this tourney this was done years ago in Q3...eerr...i cant remember who did it now, the team names were from Star Wars (god knows why)

actually come to think of it the teams werent picked by the captains, they were put together by whoever ran it

was still fun tho, only prob was players not turning up so hope all turn up for this

Why isn't Industrial Accidents (cp11) played?

cause its crap

and when/if CP9 ever turns up thats all that ever will be played :/

But *why* is it crap? Has it been played enough to know for sure? Or have people just run around it in practice and said "omg this looks like shit" and never played it in game?

It was occasionally played in Q3. It was horrible in 5v5, it's certainly not going to be better this time around with 4v4.

I've not played it at all in a clan game and after quick run around it in offline mode it looks like it should be playable. My biggest concern at the moment is the railgun at the high exit from base causing mid to be a rail-fest (but would this really be *that* different from c2?).

I think it's at least worth taking a look at. It may have been horrible in Q3 but with all the changes in QL, it may be decent, we don't know until we try it! :)

Same is said about p5 at the moment, people think it's boring all aim/defence from their experience in Q3. But I don't think the same rules apply in QL and it's actually very aggressive now.

Mappool:

-Courtyard
(Basically a new map alot more offensive then old c10)

-Ironworks
(New map, very offensive)

-JapaneseCastles
(Old but classic, if they change few spawns or remove few spawns enemy side it would balance the map abit)

-Shining forces
(if they remove switch railgun(base) with pg(mid) and make RA to 1 min its allready a improvement and can be a less defensive map)

-Troubled Waters
(Old, but classic, alot of things you cant do in q3 you can in QL, torchjumps clipping walls, heightjumps etc, what if they remove RAILGUN at C2????:D)

Other maps:

- Siberia is new yes but its just boring and most danger only come when powerup spawns(and the powerup guy mostly gets damage so much that he goes back to home ra and then attack) and something you can easily defend if you got railguns at mid

- Stonekeep is to big, to many ways into base, if they perhaps remove the teleporter and remove some area/make some smaller then it has potential as a good 4v4 map

- Finnegans maybe one of the maps that maybe could replace one of the maps i still think its not a fav map of many players and slightly big for 4v4 and with powerups spawning at the same time its kinda gay , cause in Q3 you could do attacks with 100/100 regen and still 20secs of haste left but now the haste just gets gayed and usually it doesnt leave much time on the haste

I would love to see w2 played again, its a totally different map with all the changes they made.. seems like it would be fun for sure. It's ashame that they obviously put a lot of work in to changing it a bit and no one really tried it again (atleast to my knowledge?). CTF2 would be so awesome w/o railgun, it would become so tactical instead of cess/whore mid with rail. I think that could be a lot of fun. I think on shining if they switched PG/RG high mid would just be a never ending cess/it would become CTF2.

well there 2 levels at CP5 so dont think that will happen.

there are 2 levels on ctf2 as well... and the RA is on the bottom level (or water). im tellingyou, it would start to play just ilke ctf2.

haha i hope your kiddinkkkk... @cp5 attacks from high never happen cause there just PG and SG there and most teams just cess RA so getting a rail at mid and attacking in high is a option

I heard someone suggest a while back that they remove the water from CTF2 entirely and make it so you can strafe in the tunnels. haha.... would be interesting.

fuck yea that was me :) drain that shit!

lol that sounds awesome actually. +

Originally in the beta, ctf2 had rl in mid where the two shotguns are now (that's why those new platforms were made), the rails were replaced with plasma or shotgun, and I think the rls by mega were rails. It was fun... nobody really complained, then it was changed back and no one said anything. Currently the end of the story...

I think the spawns added a lot to the offensive nature of c10. The door to medkit room and removal of the RA obviously helped, but before all that was done, there wasn't an enemy lg spawn or enemy SG spawn. The addition of those two (very common) spawns almost single handedly made the map more offensive as players no longer kept respawning in the base, making it very defensive, and it allowed the attackers to get into the enemy base so much faster.

This is my main gripe about Ironworks. It basically has no midfield spawns or enemy perimeter spawns like p1/p5/c2/w3/c10. The furthest a player can spawn away from base is at outer LG. So there's a lot of player traffic near the flagroom, which even the most aggressive team can struggle to overcome at times.

I'd like to see spawns added on Ironworks that are away from the flagroom so that if you do kill someone, he isn't just going to spawn in front of you in base. It will give attackers breathing room, and the possibility to intercept. As it stands, there's fuck all reward for killing a flagdef on ironworks as he just spawns on top of you in the flagroom again. It results in a ridiculous situation where if you do get the flag, you pretty much only have to get it past high PG to have a really strong change of capping. After that point you know there's no enemy spawns in front of you and you're almost home free.

ur kidding about ironworks right? its possibly the most attack friendly map in the pool and u want more mid spawns? stfu pls.

Consider why it's the most attack friendly map... once you get the flag you have to move about 10 yards to have a really good chance of a capture. Unless you've got an enemy guarding high pg at that particular moment then you're pretty much going to run it home.

EDIT: I don't want my argument to sound specious, as there are attack friendly RAs on ironworks which clearly add a lot. My point is that intercepting an escaping carrier is so hard due to the spawns, and I believe that to be a big (and overlooked) reason why it's seen as attack friendly map.

so ur argument is basically that if u die in base to an attacker who gets the flag and gets out u want a free spawn in mid so u can spawn on some weapon like lg and rape him in mid? thats very logical.

You realise that the most actual ctf maps work on a similar mechanism? When you kill the flagdef on p1, he doesn't spawn on top of you in the flagroom again, he spawns in his courtyard/garden or enemy garden and gets one of rg/rl/sg/pg to rape you with. The map requires teamwork and communication to get captures. Not just to get into the enemy base, but to get back across mid. The way CTF should be.

If the basedef doesn't spawn on top of you after your attack, then you have a chance to steal his items and stack up again before trying to escape back through mid.

thats why cp1 is so random.

I only used cp1 as one example. Exactly the same can be said of c2/w3/p9/p5 and the other maps. It's very common to see the attacker stack up in base a bit or wait for mid to be cleared before going to cross it.

this is a completely cyclical argument. ur typical if this happens then that happens q3 argument. and its totally farcical. unless ur playing random pickups for the most part getting a cap on ctf7 still requires good support from ur team at mid when u try to get across. and no catching a flag carrier is not that difficult if u have good team comm. the map is great as it is, no need to fuck around with it.

Not farcical at all. If you do something, then clearly whoever you're playing is going to respond to that event and it is a "this happens, then that happens" cycle.

Getting the flag on Ironworks requires teamwork and communication, and to a point escaping does, but as I said, once you get past the PG high then you can be reasonably confident you're going to get a capture. Unless there's an enemy player stood at the rg at that particular moment then they're going to have a hell of a hard time stopping you.

fuck how did i miss the draft :( boot someone like adren or instin and let me in!

DRAFTS, FUCK YEAH!

USA FUCK YEAH

finnegans out c10, c2 in. (id even give c10 ago - it has definitely increased in popularity)

Who wants to breakdown the player list and have a short bio for people so newbie captains know who they're picking!

Fair teams = fun games!

Hopefully when the draft goes down there will be plenty of people in IRC that could provide input on who to pick. Captains shouldn't be afraid to ask for help!

That should be an amusing IRC party. Two hundred people all telling one person different picks.

Two hundred? What do you think this is, europe? try 41. aha

i dont think the community is big enough for the capts not to know who anyone is or isnt.

I'm on frank's draft committee

u gonna scout these players brah?

last time they did something like ask each player what position they play etc? they seem to have done a lot of work on the website listing the players with links to their profiles. imo providing info like positions ur good at etc is more important. but then again u could just choose captains who know players, instead of going the stupid way and choosing captains based on names. making someone like clock or z4 cap would be pretty fail imo.

The last draft league I participated was a darn blast. It really seemed to bring the community together. Mid level players actually got to play with higher level players and the higher level players would give suggestions on in-game improvements and config tweaks and so on. It was almost surreal but as quickly as it came, it left.. after about the 2nd week, teams stopped showing then it completely fizzled away. So... I really like the idea of making it a one day thing and also trying different maps. I don't see why some are so bitter about the maps as its not a clan tournament, there should be no "pride" at stake. Hopefully it will play out kinda like Tony's FFA challenge, where everyone plays hard but ultimately just has a good damn time. (Yes it is possible to have fun playing this game :D)

I would like to see c2 played some again! The low entrance to tele can certainly throw high D off guard so they cant just poke away freely at people over and over like it used to be.

Short player profiles are a must, fair teams definitely equal fun games Mr. Anonoymous! :D

looks like pretty good captain selection

adrenal1ne you've come a long way...*salute* captain. nicely done.

i second and third this.

great idea, hope it executes as intended with as little drama as possible.

great idea, hope it executes as intended with as much drama as possible.

also a good option for entertainment value on esr :D

gamesurge, really?

damn where sirzach or gax when you need em?

zach is still carrying his team while gax is still running the flag on cp6.

i really hope this goes down without too much bullshit. otherwise, zone.com is thrilled.

thread full of butthurt.

Final Teams: http://pastebin.ca/2050299

i have to admit Dukes of Hazzards looks dangerous.

no.

Team 5 (Team Iam) vs Team 2 (Team cmd) in the finals ........ book it.

Team 2 (Team cmd), Team 5 (team Iam), Team 1 (Thundercats) = top 3

i'm impressed, almost all the teams look pretty strong. This will be a really nice tournament. Hope you get qltv to cast, with jehar and someone good (not fishstix/ greasedshitsman plz)

(or maybe try to get lvl up with some nice casters)

QL TV will be casting, Slasher will also be guest casting for some of the matches. I haven't contacted any of the level up casters, if they are up for it, they can pm me in #ctfdraft on gamesurge

Don't have slasher on. Rather have silence than have him casting, fuck. Jehar casting alone is better than jehar + slasher/fishstix/greasedscotsman

you can always run your own tournament, and have your own casters

listen to the nigga

Love the idea! Should be this way for seasonal leagues in all mods.

yeaah like nba drafting :D

brb dropping out of uni to become a pro quaker

damn gogogo alterik....

Thundercats to win it all!

I've been wanting to see a CTF Draft for a long time now. Tried to make this happen over a year ago. Really glad someone else is doing it :D

Very excited to see how this unfolds :D

mappool = puke.... all over the floor

congratz to winners cdogg

cheers

did a write up on the tourney with some team breakdowns and predictions.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2071273

Nice work. btw...does anyone ever pronounce your name correctly? xD

americans no. actually even asians have trouble. my roommates were thai and turkish and they tried really hard. but even they end up like stressing the wrong syllable. and i dont have the heart to correct them.

get your wonko burgers

1,000,000 ESR$ a pop. you can get some curry-fries with mango chutney as sides on the house.

gotta love being underrated! makes it easier to rape EVERYONE =)
Obviously my team will get 1st, now book that viju!

gai team names.

riz would love it. you should see what he tried to call my clan.

mate when u smell reem and look reem your totally fucking reem its the manc fuckstain that ruined us, sif we even have brummys on mumble now wtf?

who tha fuck invited the brummie onto the quake scene? he's taken it by storm.

especially when he played daviez on hub that time

Someone needs to set up a tournament like this for Europe, btw.

and make it tdm :P

Or do both!

NO DO IT FFA

oh wait

Then we need tony!

dahang + cl0ck?

in other news...
MLUT 21 is ending week 1
http://www.prounreal.org/mlut/news.php?c=75

real draft tourneys last 21 seasons yall

full of noobs
would be 2ez4apathy if their good players turned up

I was going to come here to say the exact same thing. prounreal has been having tdm, ctf, igctf draft tourneys for over 10 years now :O

Could someone get a VLC player link for this shit when it starts? VLC is always smooth as fuck

fucking THIS.

Also how did i miss this shit. Only NA CTF anything in ages.

ischju \o/

:D

so excite

i hope there will be an alternative to onw3d - or am i the only one who has these awefull lags there?

no, you're not. it seems fine atm thou, earlier i had more lags than fluent stream :////

its still shit

own3d ...

NO WALTER? :(

http://www.justin.tv/readyupradio/b/284930040

tnx braw

did you do that stream? if so where is the final?

post vods of final <3 time to sleep now ;x

nice casts @ both streams but the quality of the own3d video stream is so poor...even the justin.tv quality is way better

great job on the predictions wonko!

(1:28:14 PM) wallt3r: whod o you think is gonna win
(1:28:14 PM) wallt3r: pick 1
(1:28:22 PM) ted: kgbs team
(1:28:43 PM) ted: vs cdoggs

ME TOo

Watched some, I liked the red-blue setup for teams much more then the usual green keel stuff.
Also nice to hear greased again. He may not be the most knowledgable Quake historian but he's an enthusiast and you can always hear that.

finals vod = corrupt?

Can someone link to vods?

http://www.own3d.tv/QuakeLiveTV
http://www.justin.tv/readyupradio/videos

finals part 2 isnt working though

own3d is doing maintenance.

thats why all vids except the final work?

"Due to maintenance work over the coming days many videos-on-demand will be down temporarily. Thanks for your patience. "

o:

its still not there...dont you have a backup on your hdd you can upload?

which games are worth waching?

hacks win again!!

Hmmm, so Flawless wins over Thundercats 0 to -1 in first round? How does a negative score work in ctf? How daft am I to ask this?

Forfeit

mrgreen had the most fun!

thnx duders - pretty high intensity NA ctf action

FF

thanks 'zilla, great games btw :)

KGB wasn't there and they didn't want to play without him.

good gaymes.

Thundercats, LOOOLL....
Huge props to Adrenaline's team. nice job...

way to completely drop the ball CDOGG. terrible.