Not sure how organizations such as The Pirate Bay, who is fighting for "freedom" also seems to be against religious freedom.

Let people believe in what they want.

Problem isn't about to let people believe in what they want here. Problem is that sect grew too much and acquired the kind of influence and power it should never get. You may want to read more about it, just for the sake of curiosity.

Don't see it having more power than for example Christianity or Islam, as an example all US presidents have been Christians.

In France this is not recognized as a religion. To me you're comparing apples and oranges.

A sect is simply a smaller religion.

partly true but not quite.
mainstream religion:
has a leader but he's not a god nor are you supposed to obey his every command.
you don't have to give up all your shit for the church.
you're not physically separated from your friends and family.

afaik the term sect does not even exist (anymore?) in study of religions, and at the end of the day a different term doesn't make such an institution a better or worse one.

point?

point being discussion about sects is void as there is no sects. they're all "religions".

negative

It's true. That's how Christianity started, with sects.

http://www.geocities.com/b_r_a_d_99/cultleader.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sects

wikipedia > geocities

my bad, confused sect with cult, altho in case of scientology it's both.

I think I didn't express myself very clearly. What I was trying to say is that in scientific language, the term sect doesn't exist (at least that's what some 'expert' studying religions said). They don't distinguish between sects and religions, it's all called the same.

Not that I consider this whole area of any use, but yeah whatever. :>

maybe the term appeared as a form of discrimination, in the fight between religions?

heheh Christianity started with sex ....

Wanting 10% of your shit isn't any better.

true it's not like they don't want to, but major religious systems can't go all apeshit like that since they couldn't be major that way.

Well, major religions strictly enforced those rules when they were less big. At this point, they can afford to make it "encouraged."

organizations often start with a charismatic leader and a small group of close followers. it's necessary to insure survival during rough times until the organization gets bigger. basic corporate laws really.

it seems our justice even killed scientology in france just today ; didn't find an english page about it to link here

Wait until the end of the trial before announcing such things

ha indeed ; I'm not patient enough with justice readings. final judgment this fall it seems

Now they just need to axe the Raeliens.

you obviously don't know anything about it. They remove people from their families and put them in brainwashing camps forcibly (against their will) and threaten to sue anyone that tries to go public about it.

Start here.. http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/

It has nothing to do with what religion has more power globally, it's how much control over the individual that typically doesn't realize what they've gotten themselves into until it's too late to get out again.

Judging by a discussion involving the former head of scientology austria (ie, a very highly ranked insider who quit), scientology has intentions and techniques to wash your brain and make you a sheep without much human traits left. It was a bit controversial as it was on german tv (yay history), but it was compared to 3rd reich kind of manipulation/extinction.
Sure people may believe in what they want simply because it's their right to do so (I for one am disgusted by pretty much anything religious). But there should be enough clarification/enlightenment beforehand so people can make an educated decision.

How many have died in the name of Christianity and Islam? Possibly billions. How many have died in the name of Scientology? As far as I know, none.

I don't know a more fair way to judge which of the religions is worse, than how many it has actually killed.

stfu

I never said I support or like any of the religions you mentioned, even though I can kind of agree with some of the ten commandments. But to me that's more common sense and respect for others than deep religious insight or whatever. I don't need a church or god for this really.

What I was trying to say is that you should not underestimate scientology. As far as I was told, they're already infiltrating a lot of e.g. tutoring centers where they target kids that struggle with school/life. They're not working as much in the public as e.g. christianity I guess, but that doesn't mean they're not there. They're not necessarily killing people, they just try to break their mind and take away anything that makes them human individuals. And apparently it is their dedicated goal to kill/destroy our society.
I'm not saying other religions are any better, you just proved yourself how much shit has happened and is happening for bullshit reasons related to religions. To me, freedom stops where it affects others. The mainstream religions affect others once it comes to all those controversies we know with relgious zealots. Scientology maybe affects more the members and less the others, but they're dangerous regardless. Maybe not to non-members as with other religions, but to anyone who gets in touch with them and might get sucked in. And people should be aware of this.

http://fukung.net/v/5299/adultswithimaginaryfriends.jpg

:>

What I agree with you on is that I don't find scientology any better or worse than other, more mainstream, religions.

That stuff was invented in 1952. Do you realize how powerful it became in 50 years?

that's because you don't know much about it, presumably. I'll wait until you've read my previous link to carry on, but it's not just because it's another "religion".

The information on Scientology is iffy, at best. The conspiracy that people say that they're apparently orchestrating reads like the people who think that we didn't land on the moon. The people who have spoken out against them are likely either attention whores, people who didn't follow rules/whatever (not sure if they have direct rules) and got thrown out so they threw a tantrum, or are just plain crazy people that exist in all religions.

I'd say that the "intelligent design" movement is more of an issue than Scientology.

The conspiracy that people say that they're apparently orchestrating reads like the people who think that we didn't land on the moon.

or that 9/11 was an inside job?

There's plenty of solid and debatable evidence on that. Have you seen the arguments against the moon landings?

yes, and imo they're equally retarded to your 9/11 ones.

no need to reply tho. :) bibuy.

Except you know I will reply, since I seek out ignorance and smite it.

all evidence to the contrary.

Which evidence is there that supports the fact that I wouldn't reply?

rather meant the part were you still haven't managed to smite your own ignorance.

Oh, I see. So by "all evidence", you just mean "derp".

lmao nice one :D

scientology is not mainstream enough to be used as an excuse for war.

People have died because of scientology I believe.

Don't ask me about it tho, it's all on the internet.

Now, you would say 'Yeah but the internet isn't a reliable source.'.

Well, am I?:P

i think it's a misconception that scientology is mostly about brainwashing. it's more about blackmail and threats keeping their victims members and paying scientology. that's what i believe separates scientology from many other cults and religions.

i mean that's why they have such a close relationship, bribe and members linked to the police, inland revenue, tax collection etc.

oh yeah, and i think stuff like this does nothing.

should be encouraging targets and victims, even if they've done something illegal, to press charges against them because as i said before, they mostly blackmail and threaten.

that guy from scientology said that they got quite a sneaky system for all the threatening and blackmailing. the victim always knows it's scientology, but you can't really get hold of anyone, or connect them to scientology directly to be able to sue them or take any legal steps against them. cunts. :-/

yeah, i guess it's not easy, but threats and blackmail never are.

idiot. read up on the topic.

Great argument.

you don't know jackshit about the topic you're commenting on, yet you call my argument (which wasn't supposed to be one. more like an insult, uknow) obsolete?

kthxbye.

Such insight you provide.

So, basically you're saying... "I don't have to know anything about the subject matter that I'm arguing about"...

......right?

This has been addressed already. They don't want to stop individuals believing whatever they want, the issue is with the organisation which extorts money from people so there is no contradiction here.

freedom only works when you prevent unscrupulous cunts from abusing it. see banks.

because only retards believe in a religion

only retards believe

FYP

Like ix said, the issue is not what people are believing in, but how scientology is breaching the law. In the French trial, this is exactly what they said: scientology isn't being judged as a religious institution or a sect, but as an organization that extorts money illegally. Its religious character is irrelevant to the charges against it.

Scientology is not freedom.

Are you fucking serious? Religious freedom?

The last time I checked, you didn't pay for your believe in any faith. Fuck Scientology.

are you kidding?

Here anyone who is the member of the church has to pay money every month, and the even have to pay when they want to end their membership!

And at MANY countries christian churchs get a share of country taxes.

LOL

Wow, this is incredibly fail. Can't expect much more than this kind of backwards mentality from 4chan, though. Scientology isn't the problem, it's religious ignorance in general that is the root issue. The only reason they pick on Scientology is because they know that other mainstream religions will back them up.

I almost wish that they'd succeed, since without the attention that these whores are after, they'll just shut up and go away.

when will you succeed in anything and go away as well?

Leaving when QL dies. Likely just succeeded in taking 1st place in the Team Liquid beta contest, too. <3

wasn't that your wife?

Both of us.

what was your entry?

I have 2 now. The first one was a top3 contender at the start, but we didn't expect such harsh competition. For the second one, we learned about marzipan after a few other people had entries that used it, and we made a much more impressive cake.

All entries here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=94469

Some of those cakes are quite amazing.

They had a baking thread a few months back which spurred the whole thing. When we first made our Vulture cake, it was on par with what others had entered, and we never thought it would see this kind of activity or talent. The judging happens on Friday.

nice marine! hope you win the thing

In terms of modelling, I think your marine might be the best, however, my overall favorite is Vincze01's cake.

yeah i totally agree, took the words from my mouth!

The face on ours is rather impressive, I just wish we could have done more for the armor itself. We're new to fondant/marzipan, and apparently we didn't have a very good recipe for a fondant that could be molded very well. Another person in the contest gave us a few pointers, and we'll probably put them to use if Blizzard has any sort of christmas baking event.

When you are finished with the cake can I eat it ?

It's already done and almost completely eaten. =P

Damn! Next time UPS me a piece :)

winnar

< pasta marine

I wonder if someone actually checked the first link. It's mainly about the "Sea Org" and not especially about the Church of Scientology, hence the name of their operation "Sea Arrrgh".

read about it 2 or 3 days ago and it left me with a really awkward feeling.

it's still scientology really though, sea org appears to be the upper management of scientology.

I read it, I can even cite the reason for them choosing the scientology church.

"Anonymous originally chose Scientology as a campaign target because of the events surrounding the now infamous Tom Cruise Scientology video. While the video itself was not enough to spark interest, the untamed aggression of the Church of Scientology to remove it did."

So all this because Tom Cruise had a video that the Church didn't want to go public? If they do it because "information wants to be free etc". Why didn't they choose Islam instead? Muslims did only not want the Danish pictures of Muhammed to be published, they burnt the Danish flag, attacked the Danish embassy, attacked Danish troops, assassination attempts on the publisher and so on in order to stop it. If they call the attempts to stop the Cruise video "untamed aggression", what would they call the attempt to stop (and revenge) the Muhammed cartoon pictures?

Ah well, I suppose it's hip to hate scientology now, and everyone wants to be hip. Though to be frank I don't see scientology to be better or worse than other mainstream religions.

Man, you're really trying hard. They would be dumb to pick on Islam, they're way too small for that and they probably don't know anything about this culture since they're mostly occidental people.

Why aim at something you would inevitably fail?

They won't stop any religion, so the failure factor is inevidable regardless.

They're not picking on the belief of Scientology itself, but the church of Scientology and the leaders of it. Many of those crazy ass Islamic imams calling for fatwa on the danish newspaper get a lot of shit and no respect in the western world whatsoever. They aren't locally available in the same city either, usually, as far as I know.

I am all for this.

protesting is stupid in small scales.

protesting on a small scale is stupid*

Depends, if people can be made aware from 5 people handing out fliers, I'm all for it. It's gotta start somewhere.

as if a big corperation like scientology would care if 200 internet teenagers stand around their building with masks for a few hours. call me pessimistic but i dont think it will help their agenda

They should run a sustainable and self dependent business, not post kiddy movies on youtube.

I only skimmed a few of the negative comments, and they actually weren't Vedics. Was it Paladia who was asking why pick on Scientology? Well.

Whomever said that sect is to religion what a religion is to a sect is right. It is all the same, usually the term sect gets dropped around as a means of separating one group of people who practice a faith from the remaining majority, due to their perceived otherness in the faiths community. I went to a baptist school when I was little and the school leaders were accused of running a sect by the leading baptist churches in NSW. Due to their rather obscure teachings and extremely conservative nature. Consequently this school got into a lot of trouble for tax evasion and other dodgy stuff, but I digress!

The reason I believe Scientology should not be recognised as a religion is because you fucking pay for it, and if anyone even bothers to argue against that point I will not bother replying. You do not pay for your faith, no matter what camp you reside in. Freedom of religion is something which I stand for, even being an Atheist. Scientology is not a religion its a money making machine.

Further more, no religion would intentionally set out to bring about harm in their subjects (don't start a suicide bomber debate, as they don't perceive their death in such a situation as 'harm'). They might tout on about how they change lives but I do not think that forcing people to disconnect from their families is a healthy choice. Unless there is irrefutable evidence which suggest such a course of action would be advisable. And I would not rely on the [i]Church[i] of Scientology to provide it.

Their methods are also quite ridiculous, I mean E-meters are no more fanciful make believe than saying a hail mary but the Catholic Church isn't paying people to enter churches, touch wood.

I don't understand how anyone can possibly defend Scientology. People have freedom of religion, which is a fair and just thing, but as soon as people attempt to take action against Scientology they start their own campaigns of smearing and misdirection. Doesn't seem to be the actions of an innocent organisation now does it?

I doubt these protest will do much, but good for them if they want to try and piss these people off.

The reason I believe Scientology should not be recognised as a religion is because you fucking pay for it, and if anyone even bothers to argue against that point I will not bother replying.

To be a member of the Swedish (christian) church I have to pay a % of all my incomes as well. The same goes for islam, where you have to pay Az-Zakat, failure to pay in Islamic culture can even result in a death penalty.

Well then I guess I don't need to tell you how fucking stupid those two religions are aswell?

E-Meter and Fair Game anyone? scientology sucks

also: spaceships