Puyol needs a slap.

He made Ronadlo look like the bitch he really is, on the best stage possible.

By rolling on the floor crying?

Who cares if he milked a few penalties, its football, its nigh a legitimate tactic. Whats even better is he did it off Ronaldo's challenges which is so lovely because Ronaldo is the biggest cry baby in international football.

its shitty attitudes like this that can ruin the game... arent honesty and sportsman ship respected values anymore or did that all disappear when the megabucks started flowing into football... FIFA and UEFA should seriously start doing a massive clampdown on stuff like that... not talking about this game in particular (but look at the world cup final for instance)

3 yellow cards in a match of this magnitude is a fucking joke. looks like they're taking more care about their precious stars then actually making them play football.

i think that is actually a good thing, as long as they make yellow cards more serious... then that way u could use yellows for diving and injury simulation and they would actually sting a bit more..

yea I realize yellow cards shouldn't be the merit of a good game but in reality of today's football I can't help but feel that manu just didn't try hard enough.

Hard to catch diving though, is it a dive or just someone falling off balance (Obviously some are blatant).

They just need to make sure anyone who simulates injury has to stay off the field for 5minutes while being treated regardless (Unless it's the keeper). If they get up after being injured and carry on, book them.

That'd soon sort them out, you'd quickly see it stop after two if not one game.

ye i guess it can be tough to tell dives from real falls, but i guess referees can just use their intuition.

ye, when a player goes down and grabs his leg in agony, the ref should immediately call the stretcher guys and strecther the guy off, and then ye, if he keeps running along perfectly fine, he should get booked, otherwise he has to go off and get treated off the field whilst the game goes on..

ye i guess it can be tough to tell dives from real falls, but i guess referees can just use their intuition.

I think they should have a referee who views the game after its done. If he sees and divers then in slow motion, they should be suspended for X amount of games.

That way it won't be so easy to get away with diving.

I agree. In the NHL they sometimes suspend guys for stuff they did during the games. Mostly elbows to the head and such, but I think that diving around the penalty area could really be a thing of the past if do this for football as well.

I dunno, if everyone has to stay of for five minutes, you might see an increase in brutal fouls cause it will make sure the opponents star player is out during a comeback...

Nah because you have harsh punishments on brutal fouls be they intentional or accidental.

For example I highly doubt that Paul Scholes intentionally aimed to hurt or even miss his tackle on Busquets but it was a tragic attempt (And he's actually famous for it, but nobody seems to care...) and he should have seen a straight red card.

So many tackles like this happen week in, week out in the Premier League. It's like the skill of producing a clean tackle which wins the ball and doesn't break the rules has been abandoned and so we're just going to ignore the rule (It's there for a reason!).

• Example

All season Arsenal fans have been whining about not having a ball winning midfielder who wins possession and gives the ball to Fabregas (Ala Flamini/Gilberto/Viera) and yet if you look at the statistics they already have that in Denilson.

Not only does he have by far the most interceptions in the entire league, he also has one of the best tackle success rates and has only been booked four or five times.

The reason they complain is what they actually want is someone who will bulldose down the opposition instead of playing football.

well, you said it yourself. not all harsh fouls are punished. And we all know that sometimes it hurts at first and you need to check if it is something serious. I'm not talking about the show many pros make out of their injuries! So a defender who isn't a starter could consider hurting the opponent gain 5 minutes and maybe risk a yellow card. I for one can see that happening.

What it comes down to is the lackadaisical approach that referees take to the rules.

Firstly the referees need to be far, far stricter on the behaviour of the players. There should be no back chat, complaining, appealing a decision or swearing and if anyone does they should receive a yellow card.

Shirt Pulling, Diving and Injury feigning need to be punished very harshly. If not during the games then retrospectively.

Then they need to be far stricter on challenges and consistently strict, just not in the Italian blow the whistle if someone tumbles way though.

Last night was a really clean game and the ref actually did a brilliant job for the most part with only the Scholes tackle being a poor decision (Blatant red card) but you can understand why he didn't produce the red.

I agree with you about the refs, just look at handball or hockey, you hardly see any whines, because players know they could be rested for 2mins.

actually, I think giving two minutes for whining / complaining might actually be a good solution.

I recall some guy in the Italian league being punished by his team for NOT taking a dive in a "good" situation. \o/

Anyone who thinks winning at sport or anything is "fair income" providing you can simply get away with it is pretty screwed up in my eyes.

If you think that's acceptable I would personally consider putting a discalimer above everyone of your posts saying...

THIS OPINION IS LIKELY TO BE FUCKING RETARDED.

Idiot.

You're a fucking idiot.

Watch the replay. His foot gets trapped below Van der Saar's back and it's bent. And Ronaldo was clearly over the sore losing line after the second goal.

:[[[

.

hahaha, that's hilarious

BARCAAAAAA!!! total ownage

GET IN!

Barca 2g.

lmao indeed

i was sort of let down by the final in general, only few highlights from the 'top two teams in the world' :(

manu played terrible and barca played well... was a bit annoying to suddenly see barca players rolling around on the floor past the 80th minute altho united were clearly getting frustrated....

all in all though, the most impressive person on the pitch was the referee, he did an amazing job...

He did good, excepting at not showing Scholes a red card. He almost broke Busquets leg in a foul with nothing in play. The first step to stop the diving is punishing the real violent actions.

indeed, that was a really nasty tackle, i think the ref was just looking the other way though cos it was simply that late :PPP

what i was refering to though was more the fact that he let the game flow and have a bit of physical contact etc. For me it was very pleasing to see 45 minutes of almost uninterrupted football rather than something which more closely resembles American football with its constant stops and starts...

Yeah, especially since it was a European/CL game. Normally the refs just blow if the players get near each other...

Ye, he was good. I was pointing out what I think was his only mistake. There's some complaining in this thread about Puyol's crying, but I think C.Ronaldo's yellow is well deserved.

yes, it was, but it was also no surprise to see that sort of thing happening with 15 minutes to go... regardless of manu's more violent tackling...

mkeiy, your clearly an idiot if you take Puyol as a MVP, he played disgracefully, the MVP of the match was Xavi or Iniesta, they were the real reason why United couldn't let their strikers attack, they CONTROLLED midfield.

IMO, it was Iniesta. But the official pick (Xavi) is a good one too.

It was probably because of the assist.

also being unable to pass the ball didn't help much either

manutd controled like girl by barca, fucking raped tbh.

Fantastic game by Barcelona, they controlled Man Utd for pretty much 85minutes without much trouble.

The first five minutes was all Man Utd and they were looking good, then Barcelona stepped up and did what they do best, keep possesion and force errors and bad decisions (Hence Carrick/Ferdinand/Vidic hoofing it to Rooney/Puyol all night).

It wasn't that Man Utd were poor, it's that Barcelona made them look poor. The same thing happens in the majority of matches between Arsenal and Man Utd (Except the refereeing in the PL is terrible) and every time the commentators, media and fans come out with the same old boring bullshit about how it was just a bad day for Man Utd (It's never a bad day for the other team though right?).

Great offside play by Barcelona too, teams rarely try to play offside these days as it's so risky but they got it right all night and kept catching multiple Man Utd players offside at once.

All Man U need is the mandatory penalty they always seem to get in the PL towards the end.

Or the mandatory free kicks around the box that they get all the way through every game at OT or any big game (Even last night...).

Or the early yellow cards for defensive players (CB/DMs) like Pique...

ps. Evra is a paranoid spoilt brat faggot shit.

that's a powerful one...
:)

Couldn't agree more. Sometimes it's so obvious it's just sad. I hope Ronaldo gets hurt once at least half as badly as he always pretends to get.

please keep your Arsenal fanboy shit out of this thread, thanks.

Oh please, it's true and we can already see the same is happening despite Alex Ferguson saying outright that Barcelona are a better team while on the pitch.

All I read and hear is people saying how poor Manchester United were (And it is the same as whenever Arsenal outplay and beat them) and how it was just a bad day. They got owned to shit by Barcelona, simple as that.

please describe me how exactly did Arsenal outplay Manchester in the Champions League semi-final by losing 4-1 in total?

Did I say that?

No, learn English or fuck off.

Well, you gotta admit that this:

The same thing happens in the majority of matches between Arsenal and Man Utd (Except the refereeing in the PL is terrible) and every time the commentators, media and fans come out with the same old boring bullshit about how it was just a bad day for Man Utd (It's never a bad day for the other team though right?).

sounds a lot like Manu gets outplayed in the majority of matches.

Home and Away PL this season Arsenal dominated, same last season and the season before that. When Man Utd play Arsenal they play on the counter and kick Arsenals players to hell and back (Reyes for example).

Over the past decade or so, they have. There's only been two matches where Man Utd have dominated Arsenal recently anyway and one was a game that was thrown (4-0 FA Cup last year).

The second leg was over in ten minutes after to two ridiculously unfortunate/lucky situations that Man Utd punished, so it's not even worth talking about (since Arsenal then just passed the ball about for 80 minutes).

;DDDDDDDDDDDDDDD passed the ball around for 80mins OK, I think I'm not going to read your comments anymore

Why? it's more or less how the game went, after 10 minutes the game was over. Man Utd mostly sat back and Arsenal did fuck all the rest of the game (Bar the Bentdner goal).

It's Bendtner not Bentdner and he didin't score against Manchester, it was Van Persie.

Yeah, I was thinking of his Chelsea goal since the games played out pretty similar and I know it's Bendtner, sorry for making a typo, I'm sure you're perfect.

messi header $$

I lol'd.

me 2

nhl playoffs & ice hockey winter olympics > this bunch of stylist'd crying clowns

steroids filled idiots on ice, yeah thats the choice!

gretzky > anyone you could ever mention who even touched a football

you watch little football if you think there is no scary ass chavs on the pitch and even if you where right, what would that prove?

i accept your apology

I'm sure Einstein touched a football once.

Your turn.

yeah, thanks a bunch for the a-bomb!!!

Who's that? And more important, who cares who's that?

http://estand.org/derby/play/hardman.jpg

baseball sucks, fag.

gotta love assumptions based on lack of knowledge :)

oh and i'm a big fan of hockey too

enlighten me

what is he assuming again?

Agrood. Toothless canucks is where it's at

Iniesta Xavi and Messi the heart of the team! What a joy to watch them play. Oh, an an amazing finish by Eto

man utd looked scared of barca,seemed as they were just watching barca pass the ball about.
iniesta man of the match and both games vs chelsea in the semi's.
also fergie picked the wrong team,anderson hardly touched the ball and why play park instead of tevez.
good result tho :D

Here's a summary of Man Utd's performance last night:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-4EfIWeqVM

nice!

Better version!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg73rOFgsHw&am...r_embedded

P.S.

I don't get how this guy had a hand left?
Obviously a ginger ninja.

all in all, best thing after the game was to see Sylvinho so delighted, I was happy for him although I cheered for another team :)

Yeah, I'm glad he got to play the final, he deserved something like this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8072356.stm

MESSI=COOLLER

C.RONALDO=CYPHER???

PUYOL=NOCTIS???

nah, puyol owns

Ronaldo did alot more than Messi in the final. Very unusual for dwarfs to score headed goals; exemplifies the weirdness of the game

Alot more like shove defenders, miss goals, and cry like a faggot.

that's not really what i meant, but weren't u advocating foul play further up the thread? glad to c ur back from your time travel experiment

I wasn't advocating it, I think it ruins the game, but for whoever it was to start pointing the finger at barce players at such a late stage of game is redundant. Players from every team do it all the time, and I would bet any money the reason why those barce players were staying down was so that the timer would run down.

It's not good play, but its allowed and as long as it is you must expect players to use it to their advantage.

And yes my mate told me the game I was referring to was last years final, my local listing had a live prefix before both games, put me off ;(

Who cares if he milked a few penalties, its football, its nigh a legitimate tactic

then:

"I wasn't advocating it"

I don't see how me pointing out how players and managers perceive it to be is my advocating its usage? I should have used different words.

could u copy/paste the part where u explain it's players and/or managers who consider foul play to be legitimate? If it isn't there, then u don't have to wonder why i think that u consider foul play to be "legitimate"

Big mistake of United to not put any intensity on the midfield and allow Barca to gain ball possession. Not putting enough pressure and limiting their passing alternatives has been devastating for any team this year and it's basically the only thing that has worked vs them in the past. It's hard to keep the intensity troughout the game due to fatigue and it also limits your offensive game alot. Just look at how Chelsea played. Boring but tactically the best choice vs Barca.

Only team I've seen outplay Barca by playing "their" game has been Chelsea when they played their possibly best 20 minutes ever back in the CL 2005 at Stamford Bridge

Barcelona made United look bad and they're not the only team that has been left looking like amateurs this year.

6-2 vs Real Madrid
6-1 vs Ath. Madrid
5-2 vs Lyon
5-2 vs Sporting Lisbon
4-0 vs Bayern Munich
4-0 vs Sevilla
4-0 vs Valencia
5-0 vs Deportivo
6-0 vs Malaga
6-0 vs Valladolid
6-1 vs Sportin Gijon
5-0 vs Almeria

Sucks to be a fan of Valencia :<

I'm pretty sure the plan was to score an early goal (First 10mins) then to just defend the game with their "best defence in the world" and "physical presence".

Nah, you don't get it. They did those scores cause La Liga is weak, but they'll loose against the superiority of the premiership.

We (Sporting de Gijon) did not only get a 6-1 at their home, but also got a similar score at ours. Many other teams did aswell. Most excepting Valencia, who were the only ones able to beat them fair and square once.

Anyway, we saved the cathegory, Puxa Sporting!.

if you go to stadiums i'll plus you ;)

Let's see.

Valencia didn't beat them. They played more like Chelsea but slightly more offensive by having a good counter and it ended up 2-2 on Mestalla (I was there). If you saw any games during this spring many teams adapted their tactic to be slightly more defensive compared to how they played during the fall. It didn't work in most cases but it definately gave a better result in general.

Saying Barcelona would not last in the PL is wrong and dumb on so many levels. The CL-final proves it wrong, the semi vs Chelsea does too. It's been proven wrong for many, many years. It's like saying United wouldn't last in the Portuguese league after 2-2 against Porto. Oh wait, Barclone wouldn't last in the Ukrainian league either since they actually lost 3-2 vs Shakhtar.

The physically stronger english fotball has been more successfull as of late but not when Barcelona has been playing.

Firstly, it's not just the more physical nature of the game, it's the more "anti-football" tactics the teams employ. Man Utd don't play anything like that in comparison to most teams and are much more open, in the same way that Spanish teams are.

It'd be like playing Chelsea but the team has even less ambition and are even more physical and get away with cheating constantly.

Sure they would win most games and barely lose any but they wouldn't be getting 6-0 victories all over the place, the Chelsea game proves that.

How does the Chelsea game prove that they woulnd't beat Portsmouth 5-0? :)

How does a Malaga result proove they would beat Portsmouth 5 - 0?

The reason why Chelsea are a good example of why Barcelona wouldn't be winning by six goal margins every week is because unlike Manchester United, Chelsea play a lot closer to what most EPL teams play these days. Barcelona struggled to create any good oppurtunities against Chelsea (There's a handful + a penalty shout over 180 minutes) and Chelsea did actually try to attack.

Manchester United are far more attack based, playing an open and expansive game. Chelsea on the other hand play a physical, defence based game with a compact formation and denying lots of space and exploiting space the opponents create, but even Chelsea are more expansive than most EPL teams

EPL teams make it very hard for players to get into space between the defence and midfield, whereas from what I've seen this season the teams in La Liga have been pretty weak at this (Like Manchester United were in the final).

---

style isn't everything. i don't follow epl that well, but i think chelsea has better players than stoke, even when it comes to park bus in your penalty area

"Saying Barcelona would not last in the PL is wrong and dumb on so many levels."
It was a sarcasm, mate, because many people said that at the lmao@chelsea thread ;)

I don't remember anyone saying that...

LOL, yet you are still singing the song of the superiority of PL defenses a couple of posts above this! Wake up ;)

What's that got to do with Barcelona not being able to cope in the EPL?

Nobody said they wouldn't be good, or even they wouldn't win it. It was about how they wouldn't get 6 - 0 scorelines every game.

It's not even about the defences being superior as such, it's about the strategy the teams approach the game with. In Spain the teams are generally more open playing more expansive and attack minded (and better at it) than the English teams.

You really don't get it, right? Some spanish teams play offensive and others are traditionally very defensive, in Italian fashion. But all spanish teams tried to play catenaccio against Barça this year, even Real Madrid in the first leg. The so famous Real Madrid of the galacticos didn't get even close to the scores Barça did this year. Thinking Barça wouldn't have made the same at Premiership is just stupid, specially against teams like the ones at the half-bottom of Premiership with so static and naive defenses that make Torres look like a scoring crack.

Yes, Barcelona have been exceptional this season, nobody is disagreeing with that. I'm not even saying they would struggle, but they wouldn't be scoring six goals to nil against the majority of teams in the EPL.

If EPL defences are poor, what does that make La Liga defences who have somehow conspired to allow players such as Diego Forlan and Freddy Kanoute to become prolific strikers.

The Catenaccio has been largely dead as a useful tactic for many years, so it comes as no surprise that the teams who employed it got bulldosed by Barcelona. Sadly, not a single EPL team plays Catenaccio or even realistically has the players to pull off such a formation even if they wanted to.

There were five teams in this seasons EPL that I think Barcelona could have scored six against. They are the bottom five and they were the bottom five because unlike the other five teams in the bottom half of the EPL they tried to play attack based football.

I'm really amazed by your vision of PL, really. You believe the league is special or something! :)

I don't, it's not special but the teams set out to not lose at all costs :)

I much prefer watching European games and La Liga to most EPL games. Barcelona would probably have won the EPL this season, but the scores would have been more akin to Arsenal in 03/04.

keep dreaming ;)

they wouldn't get 103 goals in the Bundesliga either, mate.

They'd get 200.

400

But Liverpool for instance trashed Aston Villa 5-0 and United 4-1 at OT. Why do you believe Barcelona could not do the same ? Chelsea managed 4-0 and 5-0 against teams like Portsmouth, Stoke and Sunderland, why cant Barca do that ? City even managed 6-0 against Portsmouth. Hull lost 5-0 to Wigan. ( Before you say that all of these results are not 6-0, this is just to prove a point these are the teams that make up the EPL, they can and will be trashed time and time again )

Regardless of the defensive nature of the EPL, the fact remains that Barca has by far the most lethal strike force any team can field today. Henry, Eto'o and Messi are all 20+ goals per season forwards. Barca have been in outstanding form this season ( 6 goals at Santiago Bernabeu anyone ? ) and could easily take care of opposition like West Ham, Fulham, Wigan , Stoke, Bolton, Portsmouth and Blackburn in a humiliating fashion. If they can manage to make United look like amateurs what will they do against teams like these ? Just because the "mediocre" teams that make up the EPL play with a more defensive attitude, it does not mean they will succeed against a team that forces every single opponent they meet into parking the bus. ( Unless they actually do want to concede 6 )

Your missing my point, it's not that they aren't capable of scoring a lot of goals against certain teams, it's that they wouldn't achieve those six goal games as often or against as many teams in the EPL.

The more defensive nature combined with the more physical approach, referees who let a lot of things slide and the much higher tempo of an EPL game (Along with no winter break) would mean Barcelona wouldn't have been able to do it week in week out in the same manner they did in La Liga this season.

For the record:
- The biggest margin that Fulham lost by in the EPL this season was three goals, once (two goals a handful of times).
- The biggest margin that West Ham lost by in the EPL this season was three goals, twice (again two goals a handful of times).

Well, Barcelona scored 6 goals at five occasions this season and 5 goals twice, that is hardly week in week out. ( Totaling seven games ) Id say they would have a pretty good chance at equaling that record in the EPL. They have by far the best striker team a side can field today, combined with probably the two best midfielders that are playing in the game today. The EPL may be more defensive in nature, but no team there can be compared to Barcelona in regards to skill and ability. There are a lot of teams in the EPL that play the so called anti-football, but if it takes a team like Chelsea to force them selves to a 9-man defense just to keep them at bay, then surely lesser teams that dont have £30m players in each positions will get trounced. ( Even if they do nothing but defend )

The implication being made though, is that they would be. They wouldn't have scored over one hundred league goals in the EPL.

I think the total goals scored in a match is a bit misleading anyway, the fair way to do it is goal difference from the game which leaves it at two games with six, four games with five and three games with four.

But anyway, you're still ignoring the physical and pace side of the game in the EPL which is much harder and faster and there is no winter break (In fact, the complete opposite with more games during that period). This has a much bigger affect than you seem to realise, European games are played with European referees so you can't really judge fairly based on how they did against Manchester United and Chelsea.

Chelsea didn't just keep them at bay though, they barely gave Barcelona a chance over two legs and had more themselves, including several penalty appeals.

Only once has a team scored more goals than Barca did in La Liga this season, and that was Real who scored if I recall correctly 106 goals, against Barcas 105 this season. Barca have been in record breaking form this season and completed the first ever treble in Spain. So comparing them to the statistic of other teams is a bit unfair. But United for instance in the season 99-00 scored 97 goals, why do you think Barca could not improve upon that with their current form ? ( I did not bother to check goals prior to the foundation of the EPL, so I dont know the total goal record for a team in the top English league )

As for the Chelsea game I guess we did not see it the same way. I thought in the first leg Barca were also robbed a penalty ( Henry ), and created five clear cut chances on goal even though Chelsea had 9+ defending the entire game. ( and set out with the tactic to not concede at all, so they would have a chance at advancing )

Yeah, it was a definite penalty but I wouldn't say they created five clear cut chances. Over the two legs Chelsea certainly made more at any rate.

Barcelona is a record breaking team this season but the EPL is a different league. It is much more physical and the pace of games is faster (Although I think Barca are the only Spanish team who could cope with it). The lack of a winter break means that players don't have a chance to recover and re-group, the weather is wetter and there is more wind et cetera.

Barcelona are built for La Liga and the CL, not the Premier League.

Back in the 1990s and turn of the century the EPL was much weaker in just about every aspect you can think of. There wasn't even a big four back then, it was the big two with Manchester United the powerful money spenders and Arsenal the shrewd spenders punching above their weight.

Maybe the EPL was weaker then, but are you suggesting then that La Liga is weaker now then it was? ( not physically weaker I mean ) Italy and Spain have always had a better overall quality in their league than England. England has only recently been doing well in European competitions and that is really only in the CL. The UEFA cup still isnt getting dominated by English teams. But is your point then that Barca could not score 100 goals in the EPL, or just that they could not score 100 goals in the EPL this season ?

Obviously seasonal variances will have an affect but generally speaking I very much doubt they could easily replicate their form this season in the Premier League.

The environment is just too different, from the climate to the referees. Barcelona are built for La Liga, Chelsea and Liverpool are built for the Premier League.

Diego Forlan couldn't score during his time in the Premier League but in La Liga he scores for fun. Is La Liga a weaker league then, or is it just that the leagues suit different systems and players?

La Liga and the Premier League are not weaker or stronger than each other as both are rich successful leagues with strong teams. I would say La Liga has remained the "same" with Serie A becoming much weaker and the Premier League becoming much stronger.

Has anyone dominated the Uefa cup recently?

Of course tactics will have an effect and how teams are built from the ground up. But my point is more that even though the sky4 have been dominant in the CL, all other teams in the EPL have been virtually unnoticeable in the UEFA cup. Leading one to the assumption that even though the CL is getting power housed by English teams, the majority of teams within the league are far from being able to compete at the same level. Since Chelsea were forced into a corner ( In regards to tactics ) just to be able to play on the same pitch as Barca, and Utd were literally humiliated, I think it would be very interesting to see what Barca could do to the teams that these two have been dominating.

There has not really been a dominant presence in the UEFA cup in past season, but Spain and eastern European countries have been out performing all others. While English teams are incapable of progressing within it. Which seems a bit strange for a league that is touted as the best in the world.

Forlan may not have been successful at United, but according to him self he was not prepared and not given fair opportunities. ( Playing the last 10 minutes in a lot of matches or something like that ) You mentioned Kanoute also, who was a very good striker for Tottenham and just got better at Sevilla. It is hard to use individuals to prove a point on a larger scale such as this, since different players suit different teams and often just do not fit into the grand scheme a club may have. Even though they would be very capable if they were played to their strengths.

Claiming English teams are incapable of progressing within the Uefa Cup is just ridiculous. For a start even historically they have done well (Uefa Cup winners by country), they have also been increasingly stronger in Europe in the same way the English teams have gained in strength in the CL and I expect you'll see a lot more of English clubs doing well in Europe soon. But you are right, Spanish teams have been hugely successful over the past decade.


What's actually most interesting is that the teams who were in the Uefa cup the most (Middelbrough and Newcastle) have both been relegated this season and a few of the others are struggling too (Blackburn Rovers and Bolton and Leeds United relegated a long time ago).

Kanoute wasn't a very good striker for Tottenham, his record is average at best and Diego Forlan was actually given quite a lot of opportunities, he just wasn't built for the EPL.

You said it yourself in the first and last sentences you made in your post, just combine them together and you'll get the point I was making with regards to those two players.

You are losing your time. ;)

---

Everton were in it (knocked out by Standard) besides, they don't have the squad to compete in Europe and in the EPL at the same time. They have a small squad and suffer so many injuries it's unbelievable and without the money to really fully develop the squad I doubt they will be making an impact in Europe for a while.

Fulham under Hodgson have been amazing in comparison to how they had been and he's a great manager with European experience but I doubt they would have made an impact in Europe this season, again I think their squad is rather small really and the players have no real experience in Europe.

OLD OLD OLD OLD, i suppose thats because your at the other side of the world though