because poker is a game of jedi mind tricks, and jedi mind tricks sucky fucking smell

get a job degen

i have a job thank you.

38 hours a week? you some kind of bum?

OHH TEH EDIT PH33R

ha???????????????????'

u talk shit ya kno

shut the fuck up you look ugly

heheehehh LOL

ye i realised i didnt need to have "38hours a week" in there :)

i bet ur uglier shitty pants

you have a job and you still live by your parents?
nice

ye, so what? i want a better job before i move out (if i ever do)

Just show her all the $$$ you earned np.

the argument was probably about him asking her for money because he was down 10k

lol no

it was about me not answering the door because i was playing poker. (i wasnt even playing poker, i was watching a film and i didnt hear the door, ironically id of heard the door playing poker)

time to move out, innit?

I don't even answer my phone if I'm playing a game of quake. Also, I'm always playing a game of quake, so i dunno why i keep a phone around. :\

i know the exact fucking feeling m8, and u know what when i win at casino and any other poker cash games, and give her a cut she doesnt say a word!

and yeah noobs dont understand that its not all about luck but skill as well, and they see it as if u go casino ur spending £10000 a time, when really you only spend £10 if its a 10 quid freezeout n so on, infact when used in comparison of going out, cos my mum likes to go out drinking now and again, i say its healthier and cheaper to go and play poker, were i will spend 20 quid max whereas a nightout, 70?

coz its gambling and you lose more than you win k :P

i cant remember the last time i deposited money, ive always been up :)

only about 80% of the people.

which means 8/10 lose money, that's a fair chance you are one of them. right?

if a doctor told you had 80% chance to get cancer within 3 years you'd be pretty worried yeah

Yes, but most people are idiots. The problem is that people usually don't know when they are.

everyone thinks like you.

oh god i dont wanna make a 50 reply thingy about this.. people (including myself) are too narrow minded to discuss these kind of things.

What do you mean everyone thinks like me? I don't play poker! pish. I used to work for a poker site, I know exactly who wins and loses and what type of people can make money and who can't.

what im saying is everyone believes they are 2/10 or whatever the statistic says.

That's what I said.

That makes no sense at all. It's not chance that makes the 2/10 better than the 8/10 people playing, they're significantly better at poker. They're not randomly selected, the odds aren't calculated everytime they sit down to play that they have an 8/10 chance of losing. If they're good enough they win in the long term, if they aren't they should quit or accept losing.

You're failing to understand how the field of statistics is to be applied to real life.

bla bla bla.

you know too that with time you lose money in poker because its not reliable. why do you think the pros get sponsors? if they are the best at the game why do they need comfort zones?

this is a typical case of 16 year olds seeing big bucks and thinks they can take a part of it. i doubt anyone whos active on this site can make what i make in a month on a normal "9-5" job.

do you mean in one single month or on average?

lets say over 24 months

You're talking rubbish mate, I just said the 2/10 are good players who win over the long term. Doesn't matter if the cards go the wrong way for a few weeks because the plays they are making are mathematically in their favour so all they need is enough time and play and they will consistently make more and more money.

Your example of pros needing sponsors literally makes NO sense in this context because those sponsors are to pay for $10,000 buyins to major tournaments, I'm not talking about tournaments I'm talking about cash games.

Nobody is arguing that most poker players don't lose money, we're arguing against your deluded opinion that nobody makes money and if they do it's by chance. Lakerman isn't going to wake up tomorrow and be unable to continue getting richer from poker.

I think what he means is that 60% percent of the players think they are part of the 20% group.

If he doesn't then that's still what I think :P

first of all, you have no idea what lakerman is doing nowadays, do you? if he comes up here and says he is making a decent stable living on it i'll trust him. other than that "we" only have rumors about what hes actually doing. maybe he lives in his parents basement playing some poker?

even if you would make the amount of money that i do on a normal 9-5 job how would you be trusted in banks?
I dont know how it works in the UK but if you want to buy a house in sweden and dont have the money for it you can take a loan from the bank. For the bank to give you the loan you need to be trusted. Do you think poker players with no certain income gets loans over here? :)

What im saying is, sure, some people are able to make bursts of money on it but it's nothing you can depend or build a life on.

it's nothing you can depend or build a life on.

Once again you're talking out of your arse but pretending like it has even a tenuous basis in reality. Tillerman, the ex-WC3 pro, had been unemployed for years except for playing WC3 and on top of that had credit issues in the past. Once he got success in poker he applied for credit cards and listed himself as a professional poker player making $100,000 a year and with no more questions asked gold credit cards arrived at his house. Needless to say he has made over 7 figures from poker now. Except he hasn't since you say he hasn't.

you have no idea what lakerman is doing nowadays, do you?

Yeah my bad, the universe literally revolves around you and unless you are there when I speak to someone it never happened. You've managed to take what was a pretty simple disagreement and make yourself look as stupid as possible out of it.

wow the insults starts raining..

you can name one guy who made some profit from poker, congratulations. i still dont think its a stable enough income.

anyone can get a fucking credit card. try getting money for a house or similar.

and what do i have to do with lakerman? i just pointed out that you have no idea what hes doing

Yes I do, end of story.

and oh, i think pros take sponsor money because thats the only way they get "safe" money.

The money they get IS PAID DIRECTLY IN BUYINS FOR TOURNAMENTS NOT INTO THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS you fucking idiot, what are you still not understanding?

Must be nice to reply to posts all day long without even reading what you're replying to.

and why would they do that if they make such good money?

You're probably one of those who doubt you can make money by trading stocks too, right?

The reason a winning player lose money is because of statistic fluctuations. You can't beat the variance. You can however control it with strict money and bank roll management. The principle is the same when trading stocks. Statistics doesn't lie.

Conclusion: as long as poker is available a winning player will continue to profit from it.

sure you can, you can make money from dealing drugs aswell.

now im not saying that stock trading or poker should be illegal, i'm just saying its not a very dependable source for income.

i'm just saying its not a very dependable source for income

That's just the thing - it actually is if you're a winning player.

Take me for instance; I could quit my job and still make a decent living by playing at the current limit I'm beating. The rakeback I get every month is even more than some people in sweden makes on a regular 9-5 job. Rakeback is a small precentage of every raked hand I play, which means even if I break even or even lose money I still get that precentage each month. The only requirement is that I play the amount of raked hands in given month to profit. The only way (except for bascially give away money) for me to lose money is - again - by statistic fluctuations and it happens from time to time but it is by no means an uncertain income.

Now if I would be a losing player it wouldn't really help me much with a rakeback deal except for prolonging the bust. However most people end up going broke and quit playing and saying that poker is all luck and that's not a certain income.

Luckly there's plenty of fish in the sea.

try getting a loan or buy anything that needs support as a poker player..

it takes time to get good at something. while you can get better at poker playing small limit games and reading books about poker etc it won't make you able to live/support youself .
to do that you need to play bigger stakes where the skill is infinitely higher. also you need to be in those 20% who actually profit during a longer time period. so it's safe to assume you'll be losing money troughout a period of several years until you reach a cerain level of skill, if you ever reach it. unless you can find bunch of fish to play all the time.

In the event this turns into another uber reply war where explaining takes more time than life itself let me just try and answer your point briefly and as matter of factly as possible:

You can make enough money to support yourself in life from almost ANY limit of poker as long as we're not talking about microlimits (2cent/4cent etc) as long as it's 1$/2$ or upwards you can make consistent money and pay your rent and bills etc. What you need is a good fundamental understanding, lots of time to play and the ability to play multiple tables at once. As soon as you have the requisite skill to consistently beat a low limit table then you just play 5-6 of them at the same time to increase your hourly earning and signup for a rakeback program.

There are plenty of people who do this and make their living without a 'real' job. The reason people move up is when you're grinding low limits like that it becomes rather boring and much like a real job, if you can move up and adapt to higher levels you can make more money in less time and have to play less rigidly.

fair enough. what is your monthly income playing multiple lows like that?

I don't play like that mate, I'm terrible at doing things which get boring like that so aside from a few months I did it in uni to get the rent it's not something I actively try and do. Some of my friends earn enough to make a living doing it though, pay the rent and food and electricity/inet etc. It's not ideal, everyone would rather be playing at higher levels and getting rich/living better, but it's certainly possible.

I should probably add we live in the North of England so that kind of money probably goes a lot further than if you're living in/near London.

It's possible it just requires skill, that's all. In attaining that skill you'll lose money. simple as that. if you're naturally talented for poker I guess you can scrape along playing low tables but to actually earn money you have to go trough losing a lot. I mean just look at any top pro and their story, almost all of them lost all they had at one point in their life. It's just the few stubborn ones that actually made it, but I'm afraid there's a shitload more of those who didn't. Also feel free to share the monthly amount you earned when you actually did play poker.

i'm just saying its not a very dependable source for income

It ain't even worth responding to him from this point onwards mate, we're literally outlining it in simple language and the reason he's not getting it is he doesn't understand how statistics apply to real life, if he did there's no way he could say that quote after you told him poker is basically +EV for winning players.

raged nerd ;D

you're acting like poker is a godsent line of work that makes you rich and anyone can profit from it if YOURE SMART ENOUGH..

this is like saying that playing quake is a proper way of making a living, it's just stupid, why cant you see that?

maybe you've spent too much time indoors playing poker to see straight :D


edit: second thought, i think im gona stop replying to you, we both seem pretty certain about our views and i dont believe this discussion will go anywhere. so have fun flame on i dont wanna get stuck in this haet !

*kisses*

the only exception to Thorin's explanation is that in your case there is a 8/10 chance you will kill yourself by default!

speak for yourself!

i dont gamble, i have no free money to lol

theres no reason why you couldnt do the catwalk for some cash my beutiful nicky!

or pole dancing

Fuckin' poles not content with stealing our jobs are now stealing our women :/

Maybe it's time to move out of your mom's basement?

I dont have a basement, but yes, i think its time to move out. Shame i cant afford to! :<

you can't afford moving out with an 38h job? wtf do you get paid over there really

i have car loan/bills and then tax rapes my wage, so im not usually left with a huge amount :(

well surely you should be able to afford living on your own if you work, either your job sucks or something is going really wrong in the UK :)

you can live on minimum wage that's the point

it's hardly ideal and can be hard but yeah you can

see most people want all the comforts they have while living at home which they can't until they earning something more than minimum wage

of course it will be difficult to pay for a private cook who also washes your clothes and cleans you room every day on minimum wage.

even worse now with the 15% (as far as I remember) rise in gas and electricity

and yeah the cleaning, that shit cost tons :(

Then ditch the fucking car.

I thought you have a full time job and are making money @ poker ? How come you can't afford to move out ?

i probably could afford to move out with a friend/gf but my friends are broke and my gf is non existant.

it cost alot to move out nowadays.

True - doing it on your own is always expensive

I'm still waiting for BIO fragmovie 2.

me 2!

the teaser trailer really got me hyped up :)

Ignorance and the fact that most people are too stupid to play and win at it. Thank god for that!

considering that online players usually go for 6 players tables, it would not be normal to consider that only one will win money there, and indeed if you enter random 6 players tables, you will see there is not only one winner, but the number vary between 2 and 3 winners, so where does the rest of all money go?
I have been looking on the definition of winning in the long run, and winning in the long run is extended to the whole period a player is playing poker, which is nonsense, and the comparison to other games is totally irrelevant, the example tried to emphasis on the fact that if you play tennis against a tennis champion, you might win one hand, but comparing to poker this is nonsense again, as in poker you might win all day against a pro player (they call it short run), now try and beat a tennis champion on his sport all day long
it seems poker have more to do with intuition than with intelligence, and people which play for long periods of time develop it, I can't explain the 20% of winners otherwise, but let's face it intuition is a form of skills in a very strict and limited manner
when you play online it seems you develop a different form of intuition, I've been watching Mike Matusow playing on fulltilt, at some point he complained about the fact that he always loose when he's playing online
it is a very big possibility online poker is manipulated, I just played on two sites for about one year and I observed differencies between these two sites, I always have to play very carefull when I play on partypoker, because cards just don't come the way it should, and because this everybody plays very tight, on titan poker I can play more relaxed because I don't see unbelievable changes after flop almost every hand (unlike the other)
remember also the scandal on absolute poker last summer

winning in the long run is the same as flipping a coin where you are the favorite

I love poker, it has allowed me to sit on my ass here in front of the computer for days on end and actually make money at the same time. :)

Edit: Grammar :(

I make enough money playing poker at the casinos to pay bills each month. and buy other things needed. If you can build up your bankroll and know something about poker, trust me there are plenty of fish/drunken donkeys willing to pay you off. Even when you move up levels there will be bad players. Find a table of fish take all their money. Simple. :)

i just donate