loool wtf???

Here is GGL's response which will be posted soon... indeed this is unfortunate for the E-Sports community:

To The E-Sports Community:

The Global Gaming League was surprised and disappointed by the unilateral announcement from Games Services about Electronic Sports World Cup (ESWC) 2006 United States Qualification process.

GGL has partnered with ESWC last year and looked forward to doing so again this year. In the past, to support the gaming community, GGL has even voluntarily paid for the U.S. team’s travel expenses and was a sponsor of Team USA the year prior to our formal involvement with ESWC.

Over the last few months, GGL has been working to resolve Game Services’ new business demands related to ESWC. As recently as yesterday, we made a new proposal to meet these demands, including GGL once again sponsoring the travel expenses of the U.S. team.

Unfortunately, our desire to reach an amicable resolution to our business dispute apparently was not mutual. We wish the ESWC well and regret the inconvenience and cost that their decision has caused the players.

Jason,

I'm not doubting that the GGL took sincere efforts to remedy the problem, but why was there even a problem in the first place.

I've attended one GGL event in the past (Digital Life) and participated in your online leagues and the 2005 online ESWC qualifiers. From the impressions I had at those events regarding your staffers & structure and from talking to other gamers, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that this debacle does not fall mostly on the GGL's hands.

I've seen other US ESWC organizers run flawless ESWC qualifying events, I've even worked for one of those organizers. There's no reason that a qualifying system that runs so smoothly all over the world should falter in the USA under the management of a respectable entity.

At the very least have the moxie to be forthright with the gamers who look forward to your events. I find the GGL press release in response to this to be disingenuous to not only the ESWC, fans & supports of the GGL, but the entire American Gaming community.

"Unfortunately, our desire to reach an amicable resolution to our business dispute apparently was not mutual. We wish the ESWC well and regret the inconvenience and cost that their decision has caused the players."

What does spin like that accomplish, besides telegraph an snobbish attempt to save reputation.

If you truly know your fanbase, the GGL should work on a a more appropriate statement that their fans can believe in. I on the other hand will need a lot more to ever support the GGL again as a player, team manager, or writer.

5/19/2006 -- slight grammer edit

Well said [+]

There's no reason that a qualifying system that runs so smoothly all over the world should falter in the USA under the management of a respectable entity.


Wrong, Canadian organization sucked balls.

Huge balls.

My balls.

space balls!

"including GGL once again sponsoring the travel expenses of the U.S. team."

Well, afaik ALL organizers of local qualifers fly their teams to ESWC, so there's no need to mention it like it was something special GGL would do exclusively.

The thing is, as d00bi0us wrote above, that there are more than 50 countries involved in the ESWC and it is GGL that somehow doesn't fit to the standard. How come? Did GGL have some special demands? Why Algheria, Bahrain, Belarus, Kuwait, Mongolia or Vietnam can do their qualifiers properly and the USA can't?

Is it really ESWC to be blamed? My current knowledge about the issue says 'no'. However, I am aware that there are tons of things going on backstage which John Regular will never know...

They did it when they weren't the organisers if I recall correctly (2004). All the USA teams/players wore GGL clothing because the GGL sponsored the USA Team to the event or something.

Yea, but the statement says that they wanted to do it again like "exclusively" even though they had the license.

that part about the travel expenses is not entirely correct. as far as i can remember, last year's qualificants from germany had to pay the trip by themselves. and if the system hasn't changed a lot, it is still up to the organizer of the qualification if he pays the flight or not

exactly what i was thinking... WTF?

Lame... Fatal1ty and socrates here are your free tickets =)

Acutally, they'll pay for the tickets ;)

Fat shouldnt get one tbh, he hasnt even played in a q4 tourney yet right?

so

so he hasnt proven himself as one of americas best duh

he has proved that he is capable of being one of the best in any game he picks up.

ya really.. not sure how you think he'd be bad at q4. he's good at everything :X

did you read my post?

it was directed at dallow not you, sorry for the confusion

we all know he'll be usa's best player with czm not playing

ZeRo4*

hes been inactive for years hasnt he, czm just stopped after last year?

ZeRo4 stopped at last years V-Sports All Stars if I recall correctly. He played in ESWC 2004 (USE Came 2nd), Quakecon 2004 (Came 2nd) and then V-Sports All Stars in 2005.

o i knew about that but i thought he just got picked coz of him being known then went for a holiday/prac'd for like a week or somethin

heh, zero4 is juggalo's bitch in q4. don't know who juggalo is? exactly.

you mean the lame queer in charge of cached owns z4 in q4? sad news

last time i saw them play, it was roundabouts 25-5 on phrantic.

How often does he play though (z4)? ;)

Has czm been playing at all?

i haven't seen zero4 playing in a while (doesn't mean he hasn't!) and i don't have any clue about czm (though my AIM says he's been offline for quite a substantial amount of time)

bow to teh name.

meaning he does not deserve it

like primax said
he has proved that he is capable of being one of the best in any game he picks up.

hed go and prove he deserves the slot by winning eswc

yes he might be capable of winning it, who knows ...

but still he doesnt deserve it. IF he would go, it would be his first q4 tournament? picture a possible scenario where he gets the beating of a lifetime, im sure he does not want that. His training partners (the F-players and some other americans i assume) are within the world's top players yes, but they are not THE best. Fatality does not know what it will be like to play against players like socrates, toxic, cooller, etc. In my eyes those players still a level higher than the players fatality plays with (i can only guess about this subject). I'm sure he does not want to take the 1% risk of humiliatiing himself AND his brand. This is why i think he shouldnt go.

He does not deserve it because of simple reasons, he does not have a q4 history. Looking back to other games is pretty dumb (if GotFrag thinks that way) in my opinion.

Imagine if this would happen in Sweden and some 'society' can pick the invites there, they pick blue & purri above toxic because both have proven ALOT more than toxic in previous 1v1 games. <-- plain stupid.

fox finished 3rd at winter

totaly agree :)

I hate you Sander =P

GGL < ALL

gg

now that sucks hard =o

No, really. I was looking forward to the battle for eswc between soc, cha0 and fatalonety. If there are only two tickets available it will only depend on someone's opinion who's not going.

FUCKED IN THE FACE

http://www.esworldcup.com/2006/popup.php?act=...petition=2

Americans fill out that form if they wanna play Quake at ESWC.

LAME!

ahahah

Wasn't GGL running it?

gg ggl :/

sucks for those who tortured themselves by practicing q4

haha :D

all i can say is lol

"Champions will have to cover their travel expenses for the event but will be accommodated in Paris by ESWC as all international competitors."

about $1800 us from dallas to paris i think

awesome

If u pay more than $1300 then you're overpaying.

if you've got a shitty travel agent, sure. i like $450USD for roundtrip from venice (italy) to NYC and back.

checked regular online travel sites (orbitz, yahoo) for june 27 to july 3 from dallas (because summer cpl is there july 5) and lowest was ~1785 (so high because summer is peak season and there isn't much time from now till then)

I paid 800 from miami, dallas to paris is 1000 max

i've flown back and forth between europe and the states several times, never paying more than 600 USD. here's a hint: find a european travel agent.

I have had fares like that several times, too.

But the problems are that it is the main season which is always more expensive. It's only 6 weeks left, so the cheapest flights are already booked plus you won't get any rebates for early booking.

And also Dallas just isn't a good location to fly too. Last time I visited my relatives in Oklahoma I saved a lot of money by taking a 16h greyhound ride to Denver. Go figure.

i flew from milan to nyc the week of christmas and flew back 3 days after new year's for sub-500 (3 years ago). the problem doesn't have jack to do with the season, but with whom you go through.

ITS CALLED FLYING OUT OF NYC. Stop writing posts like you are the TrAvEL MaStEr because believe me, you look dumb. Look at the pricing from other cities before you start assuming its the same when you are 1000+ miles closer.

aw, i've flown from st louis, mississippi, and baltimore is well. guess you're wrong :(

and besides, the point is that anything over $1000 is highway robbery, fool.

are you aware that the airlines have different rates for the same flihts, so that the people that book earlier get lower fares? so if you fly in a season where more people fly the cheap offers are gona a lot earlier.
So yeah it has a lot to do with flying in the main season, if you only book 6 weeks in advance.
Personally I just booked a flight to Mallorca for the christmas season for 29€, but only because i booked as soon as the offer came online. now the fares are up to 150€ or something like that. if you want to go in early december there are still flights for 60€

But maybe instead of arguing here you should just search a cheap flight and prove us all wrong...
Oh, ant not to NYC because it is still cheaper.

i'm ahead of you. i already contacted my travel agent for Slasher (and anyone else that might need tickets). and fyi, if you're flying within europe, i'm sure you know the benefits of ryanair. i normally paid more in taxes/service charges than i did for the actual ticket.

i can beat that :)
I never fly for more than 400 euros, i just dont accept to pay more :)

Summer season is a tougher story though, but still possible.

anyone with a student email address can use this: www.studentuniverse.com

that looks pretty nice, thanks

oo that's cool, u da man

Los Angeles - London for $421 RT!!!

only fags live in l.a.
east bay ftw...sort of

just get to LA to get the cheap flight ; )

:\

ouch

ouch :/

some reasons would be nice...?

Yeah it's really quite bad that it has got to this stage really. Having Gotfrag choosing who attends events will be a bad thing too, no organisations like Gotfrag can be totally unbiased. Expect Fatal1ty to attend ESWC despite not being as good as cha0ticz and many others this year.

The fact you need to submit your achievements should mean Fatal1ty gets picked, don't know if this is a good or bad move to be fair, it's entirely down to Check6 on if they can afford Jareds flight, if not, expect Fat to be going..

My heart goes out to all the players who have been practicing for however long now hoping to bag their deserved trip to ESWC and compete in what is one of the most unique tournaments in the world held in the heart of Europe, unfortunately only those willing to shell out for a peak priced ticket can take part now, oh and you need the right credentials in the first place.

GGL is awful. Look at all the controversy surrounding the ENTIRE Q4 4v4 AC2 playoffs. There were 4 matches, including the finale, that had controversy at some level.

On top of that, Donking is a horrible admin and will take GGL down. He plays favorites, makes bad decisions and is ultimately regarded by many as TEH WORST ADMIN EVAR! thanks to his poor attitude.

HHGL is all you needed to say.

Indeed.

i think that fatal1ty could be in a good shape if he would decided to attend...

but yeah... agree with the rest

> The fact you need to submit your achievements
> should mean Fatal1ty gets picked.

as far as i know Fatal1ty didn't yet compete in one q4 tourney so his achievements equal null?
i feel bad for him as he probably practiced :x and i would have loved to see the qualification :/

@news: teh joke!

they didn't say achievements in q4, so he does have a lot he can mention from other games.

But either way it sucks

bahahah Gotfrag picks, that's so sad for q4. Look at their booming q4 coverage so far!!

This is like a terrible joke.

agreed, i'd love to see more ' progamer x quits q4' news

this is lame

So instead of having qualifiers to determine the best representatives, we'll just hold a popularity contest and put gotfrag in charge? WOW. BRILLIANT.

the impression we get from US TV is that a lot of american life is a popularity contest, might as well carry over into gaming!

ill burn my fuckin flag over this tbh.

the impression one could ascertain from european tv is that all the women are whores that will drop their clothes at the drop of a dime.

i think believing everything you see on tv and using that as a base to form judgements on something you're otherwise unfamiliar with is foolish.

and it's funny how people like to juxtapose generalizations of european and US life. what most don't seem to realize is that in essence, it's actually all the same. europe just has better scenery and weather.

gotfrag determines who goes AND they have to pay for their own flights ahahah amaaaaazing

thats just terrible :(

http://www.esworldcup.com/2006/popup.php?act=...petition=2

Application for QUake 4 for Americans.

joe hill is the esports god controlling all of this me thinks!

i wonder if gotfrag paid for these rights too.

The committee, which will include representatives from GotFrag.com, Official Media Partner of ESWC 2006

Guess so.

Wow. Using an "application and review process" to determine representatives in an event that everyone else in the world competes to get into? That's beyond lame.

Those who are playing at the highest level should get in, not those with the best reputation and/or resume.

Hello Cha0ticz and socrates.

Fatal1ty will not be attending eswc
So stop the hate you online mouths

oh?

2 slots is tough coz socrates won tas but got owned in vsports, chao's been doing well and fatality is fatality; whether hes been in a major tournament yet or not i still think he'd win the qualifier if it was held

rofl

nomadic and other players like lost-cause that really could have a chance of going are now not b/c its pretty obvious cha0ticz and socrates are probably going espically if GotFrag has anything to do about it sicne they do little to no coverage of quake 4. I guess socrates and cha0 are the offcial US Quake 4 ambassadors :)

And this was supposed to be "the" big year for eSports. Let's see how this all went to shit.

- Quake IV released before MP was actually done and worth playing
- World Tour Cancelled
- WSVG (just...in general)
- WCG STILL offers no deathmatch games
- HHGL
- ESWC Canada results (almost) nulified
- GotFrag obtains exclusive broadcast rights to CPL Summer
- ESWC USA cancelled and replaced by a paper application.
- GotFrag obtains the rights to review the ESWC USA paper application.

Exactly! :(

Joke innit.

omg, hah, shame for ggl and bad news for the usa players for getting an opportunity of game and fame instead of letting the big names to get the chance for another worldwide title.

wow, goooood game.

Well... this years eswc is by far the most interesting one to follow even before the event taking even place.

so why exactly did they cancel their agreement with GGL?
i want all the gossip and laundry airing!

would be interesting to know, why the ggl got lost of their license.

and lol@ gotfrag...

here's an idea; someone who has the resources and time, create an independent tournament...perhaps round 2 of the tourney Lost Cause won a couple weeks ago.

cha0ticz, socrates, fatal1ty if he so chooses, immortal, lost cause, cl0ck, etc....all play under the assumption that the team who actually does indeed do the picking will see who wins, the circumstances regarding such, and at the very very least have the results for a very recent indication of who from the USA will represent us the best at ESWC.

obviously it won't be a guaranteed ticket in (as the players should've had the chance at obtaining) but we'll know who SHOULD be going if the committee who chooses picks someone who doesn't deserve to go.

Some guy on GotFrag has the correct answer to all the whine:

29
rmIon
10% Ranking 10% Ranking 10% Ranking 10% Ranking
Today at 5:01 PM EDT
"All I know is that GGL is the partner assigned by the ESWC to select the final two teams to attend the ES World Cup," said Dolven.

If that's all he knows, then he clearly knows nothing. GGL wasn't assigned by ESWC. ESWC licenses out their qualifiers (much like the CPL is doing with their name this year). Those licenses cost MONEY...they're not given away (I believe this was even a news story on various sites a while back...when people saw that bizarre countries had tons of spots and places like sweden had almost none). Since the GGL didn't purchase a license to run it, blaming it on the GGL is looking in the wrong direction.

Yet for few months GGL was mentioned on ESWC website as an national partner in the US. And Games-Services dont post such info without signed agreement between both companies.

O RLY?

You know alot about this for someone that dosent work for either company

No, but I know a bit about getting the ESWC license.

perhaps you should revise that assumption, because it is way off.

THe reason for the licensing is pretty clear though... Its not like i agree with it, but companies holding the qualifiers in these countries surely get to bring in their own sponsors (alongside the main ones) and get a lot of publicity in the media off of the ESWC name which can essentially mean they are classfied as "the" company to run gaming events in those countries, especially when any such company wants to run its own event they already have a name for themselves.

I don't agree with licensing like this completely, but its there for a reason.

I have no idea of the ggl/eswc situation though, but it sounds like the ggl wanted to get the license for free, and the eswc wasn't willing to comprimise because it would set a dangerous precedent for other countries in the future.

ZeRo4 ftw.

Wow there goes the chances of any suprise players and ruining any competition for q4. This is what happens when the community gives up all control to such queer groups. Community needs to take control of this crap, otherwise gay decisions like this will keep being made. How the hell are new players supposed to come out of nowhere and suprise anyone. This is so horrible since the USA is one of the better 1v1 countries. The so-called gaming scene is just utter trash in my eyes these days. atleast the koreans got it down packed and perfected. Pro gaming needs one game Quake3 and no changes. For 1v1 that is and CTF.

Well said, I agree.

You want to play the same game for ten years?

that would be great imho

i've been playing it for like seven years now, and i'm not planning on giving it up yet... i had bought a new pc for q4 and it was a waste of money because i gave it up after a couple of weeks and kept playing q3.

and talking of 'e-sports'
football/soccer has been around for i-don't-know-how-long and it's still the one sport that most people in the world are interested in...

Comparing 'e-sports' to a physical sport is impossible. It started out with a variety of games and it will always be about a variety games. 'E-sports' is nothing more than trying to earn money playing videogameS, money that comes from sponsors and maybe a games popularity. There can never be a standard video game, not everyone would want it to be the standard game. I can't enjoy quake 3 as much as you can because I never played it from the start. To me it's just a game. For you there's probably a nostalgic value.

Look at CounterStrike, people still play the same maps, same weapons, everyone knows the tactics, where to shoot where to camp, it's like a replay over and over again. I can't imagine how that could make anyone happy, even if it's about your favorite game, quake 3.

And yea, quake 4 probably is a step backwards, but I thought the painkiller scene was interesting and the game was fun. If the community was in charge, that would never have happened.

talking about a variety of games: football, basketball, volleyball, handball :)

Well unfortunately for you not every video game can grow out to become a single olympic event.

i've been playing qw for about that long. so have a bunch of others. quite content, i must say =|

Someone please hack gotfrag!

i wonder if mentioning that i'm an esr site admin will help my case any

Names have power,

most experienced gamers know not to expect much from players/admins named Neo, Luke Skywalker, Morpheus and such...

you can now add DonKing to that list :)

gl evaluating the Trackmania players' performances. since ping is no issue there, I hope they'll have the good sense to do online qualifiers for that game at least.

The better part will be that all Trackmania players will have to put "N/A" as their "accomplishments" if the form is still used.

Wow... what a year for Esports indeed. This is the icing on an already rather unappetizing cake.

And that icing is made of animal sperm.

shouldn't the icing be somthing unappatizing too?

Sometimes I worry about you...

I lol'd.

;D

[+]

Classic

If you wanna go to Q4, better start pwning noobs to make the educated gotfrag public like you!... hahahha...

Considering the G7 has a team from the USA, maybe this might be their chance to show what their made of!

lol yeah right

GotFrag? More like GotNoIdea

Destrukt and socrates are the obvious choices

there's no obvious choices, there's a wealth of good players in the US and each one could win on a given day.

i'm assuming the "player review" will be mostly based on cpl winter placings and socrates / dkt placed the highest in NA.. They also have respectable past accomplishments in other games

DKT... please he's ok but by no means better than cha0ticz and a few others.

nope... not after losing to a 120 ping'ed fooki

please, who is dkt ?

detox is prolly dkt himself...cant see anyone else supporting that fag so much;)

ahahha, idd mate - just browse his recent posts - is it brian "can't frag anyone in q4 so switched to cs" flander, or his die-hard fan? ;)

His die-hard fan. detox lives to post ESR comments on how awesome dkt is and refuses to comment on anything else.

It's sad to see that the battle for representation for USA will be one of resumes :|

Its really a shame.

WOW this sure is crappy news!!! LoL no usa eswc qualifiers! I'm sure there could of been some us playetrs that could of taken soc or cha0 down!


noone here in america is gonna take these two down. Soc and cha0 have acheived the most so far in q4 here in the us, so they should defintely go.

just shut up.

terrible.

-koji

bo larks.

ESWC should just have lanwar, http://www.thewsvg.com/events/lanwar_2006/tournaments/ , as the qualifier..top 2 americans in that should be ones to represent the US.

thats weak, i really wanted to play in the qualifier. i am confident i had a good shot at one of the spots, now i'm not so sure.

u didnt



:(

have you seen me play? exactly, you don't have a clue.

yes, winter
the decisions will be like the tournament would be...cha0 & socrates if fat doesnt enter

Socrates_ and cl0ck will get sent.

GotFrag seem to like cl0ck :/

GotFrag seem to like c0ck

Seriously, why not send cha0ticz? He has done better than cl0ck lately and seems to be more obvious of a choice to me than socrates.

After winning the TA, socrates seems to have gotten fat and happy because his performance at the most recent GGL event seems like something that happens when you've stopped practicing.

Here is GGL's response which will be posted soon... indeed this is unfortunate for the E-Sports community:

To The E-Sports Community:

The Global Gaming League was surprised and disappointed by the unilateral announcement from Games Services about Electronic Sports World Cup (ESWC) 2006 United States Qualification process.

GGL has partnered with ESWC last year and looked forward to doing so again this year. In the past, to support the gaming community, GGL has even voluntarily paid for the U.S. team’s travel expenses and was a sponsor of Team USA the year prior to our formal involvement with ESWC.

Over the last few months, GGL has been working to resolve Game Services’ new business demands related to ESWC. As recently as yesterday, we made a new proposal to meet these demands, including GGL once again sponsoring the travel expenses of the U.S. team.

Unfortunately, our desire to reach an amicable resolution to our business dispute apparently was not mutual. We wish the ESWC well and regret the inconvenience and cost that their decision has caused the players.

maybe they should have gotten ESWC set up instead of figuring out which mod to put on their servers

Ouch.

I don't quite understand the constructiveness of this comment / cheap-shot, Jeremy.

Please read our response and base your conclusions on fact and past contributions we've made to the US ESWC program.

...

as far as i knew previously then it seemed as though GGL did not do the proper planning to get an event such as an ESWC qualifier setup. This would be the reasoning for the cheap shot. Obviously you would know a lot more about this situation then I would so after reading the statement and from your defending of GGL in this situation I guess my previous comment was incorrect

I'm confused how this is GotFrag's fault? We were asked to help out. If no ESWC would have been basically picking out of a hat.

I guess the fans want random selections.

Trevor "Midway" Schmidt

This isn't Gotfrag's fault but you have to realize how this community looks upon a e-sports coverage site such as Gotfrag. You are part of a very well run news site that provides great coverage of CS events. Yes there is wc3, bf2, q4, etc...etc..but the site is 90% CS news. It really gets annoying to see that Gotfrag is covering a major lan event but we only get information about what is happening in the cs tournament and q4 or other games are ignored (ESWC Canada qualifiers) The last major news post that is up on the q4 section of gotfrag was from the transatlantic finals. This is another reason why when the agreement between CPL and GotfragTV was made that the community was upset as we have yet to see gotfrag do anything worth paying attention to for the quake 4 community. Gotfrag is the cs version of ESReality. While I am sure Gotfrags plans are to do what would be best for Quake 4 and all other games that will be played at ESWC it would most likely be more accepted if a e-sports coverage site such as esreality was helping with the picks for Quake 4.

I'm sorry but if you really believe that GotFrag wouldn't do the proper research to make sure the best possible selections in this difficult situations where not made then you don't have very much respect for our website at all. We have been at this a very long time; we'll speak to everyone in the community (each game community) and do our best to make sure the USA has the best possible selections.

I personally will be at LANWAR to watch the Quake 4 players and CS matches. I will also make sure personally that GotFrag does its best to recommend to ESWC the best players to go. We can't afford to send these players so one key will be finding players who can attend through their own funding. This will be a lot of work and we hope that ESWC will listen to us. We will only do the research and give them the best possible advice.

Let me stress, we aren't trying to "decided" the USA's representatives. We simple want to help advice ESWC on who the best players would be.

Trevor "Midway" Schmidt

Maybe you haven't been reading the horrible q4 coverage that gotfrag has been putting out?

Newsflash: midway can't write, what makes you think he can read?

lol

Well then this is a good chance for you to be able to prove to me and everyone else who doubts gotfrag wrong then. Your right I do not have much respect for the website as far as your coverage of Quake 4 goes, that section is updated about as often as Amped News updates anything. It is pretty obvious to a vast majority that socrates_ deserves one of the spots for ESWC but it is a huge decision on who should get the 2nd one. Cha0ticz has proven himself for it but with this game and community in the top group of players anyone can win on any given day.

haha, "... amped news..."

At the end of the day it does not matter who (in this case Gotfrag) picks the second spot for Quake 4. Simply becuase there is no clear second place.

Lets face it, there would be a lot of controversy even if it was placed in esreality hands. Some one is going to feel rejected, no matter who is voted for. The only way to deal with it would be an online qualifier, and even that would contain controversy due to the US ping problem.

Waiting for that e-mail...

yo midway.... what good is lanwar going to do? it's not til june 18th or something.....

and per the eswc website

"The invited list for the Grand Final will be announced on May 30th on Gotfrag.com"

lol n1 :) i guess someone didnt think anyone would notice the dates ;)

Thats the amazing gotfrag coverage for ya.

haha that`s funny indeed.

visit the lan after decisions are made :P good call

The issue is not that GotFrag won't try hard, the issue is that you are by no means qualified to make this important decision.

If you think the only alternative to Gotfrag selecting the participants is to draw names from a hat, then that just demonstrates your ignorance of the Q4 scene.

why not just do wat the guy above said?
ESWC should just have lanwar, http://www.thewsvg.com/events/lanwar_2006/tournaments/ as the qualifier..top 2 americans in that should be ones to represent the US. that way they can all prac and the top 2 deserve to go. then immortal can lose without a reason to whine and fatality can enter and get a place.

if 1 of the 2 cant afford to go to eswc then move down to 3rd place etc etc

Because then no-one buys the ESWC licence? I would guess a 'free' competition is a last ditch move by ESWC, they would still want someone to buy the licence and host the competition if possible.

well nobodies gonna buy the license if its done by application forms either so they may aswell just agree to take whoever wins at the lan ensuring that the best choices were played

its not like it will cost them anything for doing it. just make a statement eswc/gotfrag saying the winner will be picked so the players take the tournie seriously, then check the tournie site for the results n there u go

THATS THE WHOLE POINT UR PICKING THE PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT ABOUT THE UNKOWN PLAYERS WHO SPENT ALOT OF TIME PRACTICING THAT CAN TAKE OUT ANY OF YOUR PICKED PLAYERS OMG WHAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT YOU STUPID SHIT! GO BACK TO CS!

Genius, we aren't picking. We are simple in charge of talking to the community and submitting suggestions. ESWC is inviting, its there tournament.

Trevor "Midway" Schmidt

Then why is a cs site even involved? Can't you guys just fuck off and let someone else that knowss Quake be involved?

as jeremy pointed out, you've only got a reputation for cs. so if you have a say in wc3/ q4 and so on picks, then it will be either biased or random anyways

"If no ESWC would have been basically picking out of a hat."

You have to understand that people are assuming that GotFrag will essentially be "picking out of a hat" for everything but Counter-Strike, because, let's face it, the focus that GotFrag puts out for games other than Counter-Strike (Quake IV and WarCraft III are the big examples) are severely lacking.

I really wanted to see the new players of Q4 emerge and fight for the spots, like nomadic ;/
I really think this is a horrible way to choose players.. :(

yeah I love nomadic's style =<<<<

Yea, the real losers here are lost-cause, dkt, nomadic, etc... They have been working hard in the past few months, but now all of that hard work will be ignored and they will have no chance to prove themselves.

this is really fucked up... not fair for alot of players who on any given day could beat "the top 2"

eswc scumbagging the world first canada (which was resolved) now usa... who's next? fucking greed.

What about Germany, that one was close to not happening as well ;)

And they have still not given out lists of qualified players when the finals are going to take place next weekend.

The big (wealthier) eSports countries all seem to be in trouble for some reason. Canada, Germany, now USA.

I wonder why that is... ^^

Perhaps G-S should ask themselves the moral questions.
"Is the squeeze worth the juice?" :)

Australia ESWC organisation has been horrible aswell. All but two regional (state) qual's got cancelled and now the finals are a 'whoever signs up plays'.

We're not expecting to have more than six people show up to the finals. Then again, only 8 or so of us actully play the game.

Yep its sad to see an event such as ESWC have low response from the gaming community when you have at least more than 2 regional qualifiers. Altough I am not elegible to play I've been following the scene and I think the problem relies more on the lack of advertising and the suitability of the tournament/event for more mainstream/newbie players.

Most of the players won't sign for the qualifiers if they don't even know the qualifiers exist, others won't sign because they don't play the game and the event is not appealing for them to even sign up for the sake of fun (maybe if a raffle prize would be given or even a free t-shirt or free lan hours at the lancenter when you sign up) and others won't sign up because they know/think they are not going to make it to the finals).

I just hope for the sake of the AUS gaming scene that ESWC orginizers/sponsors see a return on investment or blame the lack of response in their lack of marketing, so that they are willing to buy the license again for the next year and host qualifiers again. Otherwise another country will be missed on the ESWC webpage. :(

You guys see what happens when corporations get involved? See in Quake3 it was a little smaller and the coverage was everywhere and free with no shitty ass liscening? Now it's all greed and we the community get diddly squat. I wish I could go back to 2-3 years ago, it was so great then. This isnt even about quake4 anymore, it's about the money grubbing corporations fucking shit up for us, the community and competition. How can new competitors even get a chance if its going to be like this? RAAWWWWRRR !!!! I officially dislike anything gotFAG.com says.

There'd be nothing to compete for without the corporations. Don't get more wrong, i agree with most of your points. However you're talking about free flights, free hotel, tens of thousands of dollars prize money when you mention competition. Well that only happens to Purri, the rest of us need the corporations. Otherwise its just playing for fun, and we couldn't do that.

I don't have a point.

NONONO!! It wasnt a problem before! now they are just taking over everything with copyrights to this and that. You know? It's becoming a hassle to do anything. There was none of this crap in Q3 days. =\ bleh.

Well without trying to sound patronizing, it was always like this but at a diffrent stage. It was at the access to copy-rightable material/build a market stage in q3, now its profit time.
I still don't have a point, and this time i'm probably wrong too.

socrates and cha0ticz are the only 2 realistic choices without a qualifier. It's sad because i wanted to see others get a shot at it. Theres always a surprise (dkt, LC, cl0ck, etc...) and now we don't get to see it. =/

last 2 big lan tourneys = cpl and TA...socrates, dkt at cpl and socrates and cha0 at TA. It should be between those 3 players.

Why would cha0ticz get the spot based on a "player review"? I'm not doubting his abilities as a player but he hasn't had a notable lan accomplishment in q4 yet, aside from 1 win over winz at the TAF.
socrates, destrukt, and cl0ck should be the guys in contention over the spots

cl0ck? What has he done besides fail to clean up dj at a local New York LAN?

he won that event and there were a LOT of good players there, dont talk shit

I'm serious though...socrates, cha0ticz, dkt, and lost-cause all are considered top, and cl0ck can barely handle dj (no offense to dj)...I dont think cl0ck and dj are even practicing q4 very much anymore...

dj is GOOD no matter what people say, and cl0ck beat Apo5tol(who is real good, too), vamp1re, and others who played as well, which is no easy feat. he also beat dkt on lan at everlan, and placed higher than cha0ticz at CPL Winter. hes also been practicing a lot lately, and imo is on par with chaoticz for reasons to be invited

Well, I'm practicing a lot, and it's been weeks since cl0ck has visibly practiced (advertised, played on common passworded servers, etc...). Nomadic, LC, and dkt have all been visibly practicing a lot, which is why it seems to me that they should get a chance. I know LC and Nomadic have been LAN bootcamping at various locations, and DKT visibly practices a lot online. If I'm wrong about cl0ck practicing, he should get a shot as well w/ those 4, but if there is no qualifier, cha0 and socrates should definitely still go :\.

Why can't people do anything right?

from an outside, looking in perspective:

This year is is major LOL imo.
gf, ggl, cpl cookies/favorities are now in my deleted history.

A perfect example of how NOT to advance e/v-sports, or whatever it's called today. Time for ME to install e-quake again and have fun.

***STATEMENT FROM THE GLOBAL GAMING LEAGUE***
HHGL. V-Sports. Nothing we say beyond this point should be taken seriously.

Yawn...

You really have no leg to stand on when it comes to criticism of HHGL and v-sports. Im sorry if this affects you.

I have no leg to stand on, other than a long background of playing professionally (1996-2002) and spending 10 years of my life trying to develop competitive gaming.

But feel free to preach "V-Sports" and "HHGL" disintegrates our efforts... that's the smart thing to do!

Thanks for remembering who was supporting the Q3 and UT2k4 communities with events when most organizations tossed them aside to exclusively focus on CS/PK, etc...

GGL must be the poison!

The original was a joke. The follow-up was an apology if the well deserved criticism caused offense. This is a 'remove your head from your arse'.

My head's not up my ass; I appreciated the apology but you keep attacking, which means to some degree you are disingenuous.

Saying I don't have a leg to stand on is hardly "criticism", it's a personal attack on character.

When was satirical humour ever constructive? This isn't a 'Please help the GGL get better' thread. It's a 'Oops we fucked up thread'.
If you want my advice, business and fun cannot occupy the same theoretical space, the more business you inject in, the more fun is forced out.

Edit to meet yours: You represent the whole, however you are not the whole. Unless you elected that the GGL was to work with the HHGL, then you are not to blame and the organization you represent left you without a leg to stand on. Me pointing this out is pretty far from a personal attack.
The reason i IM'd you was so we didnt have to go through this obvious stuff in public.

Did not receive an IM ... sorry ...

HHGL isn't bad, it's just not for you... and certainly shouldn't usurp all of our efforts in the community... perpetuating that is not constructive and is demotivating to people working for the community.

This is my last post...

I miss your posts already.... :(((

"I've got 100 armor, 100 health. I've got every gun on the planet due. And It's like - quad spawning at 2:57 and a half. And it' s like, 2:54 - 2:55. And i'm like IM GOING TO MAKE A FUCKING DIFFERENCE THIS TIME!!!!"

Hey, I'm no GGL fanboy, and I'm just as annoyed as anyone else that there will be no ESWC qualifier, but cmon. What is the only other major Q4 event held since CPL? It was a GGL Event (TAS). Most people are basing the ESWC choice off of GGL's last event. Give the GGL guys a lil slack. They are helping the community a lot. HHGL, v-sports, etc...maybe humorous, but they are interesting ideas that are worth being explored.

Also, v-sports gave some nice demos to be watched that are up on this site. Maybe you don't care, but I enjoyed watching toxic rail the piss out of socrates in his demo....:].

GGL made a big mistake, but they are still doing a lot for the community.

But ya, DonKing is kinda a douche :]. I guess he works hard though so GGL keeps him.

Indeed GGL has created some useful situations for the 'community'. Praise for that where its due, which isn't here ;D
The only reason i keep repeating the HHGL thing is just... Snoop Dogg... Pro-Gaming... Where was this ever a good idea?

especially when he gets arrested a week orso before the event... good role model there ;)

T_T Warcraft 3 spots will prolly be bad :/.

So many comments about quake 4. What about the other games ? I only saw a few comments about WC3 or TM ...

Five Corporate Pigs Rolled in the Mud:

(Sung to the tune of Five Little Ducks Went Out One Day)

Five corporate pigs rolled in the mud
Squishy, squashy, felt so good.
The farmer took one piggy out.
Oink, Oink, oink, the pig did shout!

Four corporate pigs rolled in the mud
Squishy, squashy, felt so good.
The farmer took one piggy out.
Oink, Oink, oink, the pig did shout!

Three corporate pigs rolled in the mud
Squishy, squashy, felt so good.
The farmer took one piggy out.
Oink, Oink, oink, the pig did shout!

Two corporate pigs rolled in the mud
Squishy, squashy, felt so good.
The farmer took one piggy out.
Oink, Oink, oink, the pig did shout!

One corporate pig rolled in the mud
Squishy, squashy, felt so good.
The farmer took the one piggy out.
Oink, Oink, oink, the pig did shout!

No corporate pigs rolled in the mud.
It all looked so clean and good.
The farmer turned his back and then,
Those pigs rolled in the mud again.

I'm confused. "Games-Services" are the people making this announcement, but who are they? Are they the ESWC organisers that we love so much? If so, then wtf is going on?

It wouldn't be *that* difficult to organise a competition to find the best American player, surely? Given a little preparation I'm sure ESR could arrange a Quake 4 qualifying tournament - maybe with online heats separated by geographical region, followed by a lan final for the winners from each region. Just hold it at a gaming centre if money is a problem.

I can understand that if there are major problems, maybe you can't hold a huge glamorous event for the ESWC USA qualifiers. To me it's a disaster to not hold anything at all. Just run a small event - the demos will still be good.

Let's leave logic out of this sujoy, what were you thinking...!

thinking is the problem ;)

then make an official proposal to the ESWC. You expect them to read the comments area?

i wouldnt think they read ESR at all let alone the comments

ok so they did lol

The ESWC guys are probably the most respected organisers. I've met them and while they run a tight business, they also know what the community is all about. They tend to make good decisions rather than just business decisions. That's why this bugs me.

I don't think running a qualifier would be really that hard, but if ESR did it we would also have to raise enough money aswell. Since I'm not based in the US, it's a bit harder to get that money from US sponsors. Especially if you want to pay for the players to travel for the regional qualifier and then travel to Paris for the final. I just feel that someone based in the US could get an event together quick enough, maybe one of the big gaming centres. If this was announced in the UK I would definitely be asking to step in and sort it out.

Don't forget to pay ESWC (Game-Services) on the way to the announcement of your tournament and fundraiser...

If it's a choice between selecting players by resume, and running a small tournament I don't think the license fee would be such a big deal. The ESWC guys want an tournament as much as the gamers do, I'm sure. I assume there must be some other factors at play here, at least after reading the response from them.

Sure there is, from them it's spin the wheel!

On Gotfrag, Ion posted a comment to the ESWC article that is the real issue at hand. The GGL first paid for the entire Team USA's expenses (hotel was covered by ESWC that year), then last year the GGL ran qualifiers with no problems... what could possibly come up that would interfere from their perspective? :)

If we presume that the US quake 4 scene is not happy with the current situation then why not do the following.

ESR hosts (maybe in cooperation with Gotfrag as a media partner) an "online invite only Quake 4 tournament" (for 16 players). We all now the problems with online tournaments (ping difference etc...), but at the end of the day the question has to be would the US Quake 4 community prefer to have an online tournament or none at all and have the current selection process. A vote on Esreality would be a good indicator.
It is obvious that no one is going to organize a LAN qualifier tournament unless the qualifier piggy backs off an upcoming US LAN tournament. I do not see that happening it is too short notice.

I am not sure what the deal is between ESWC and Gotfrag, how ever I am sure that a one time exception can be made and that the US Quake 4 qualifier for the ESWC can be outsourced to esreality. How ever this would probably mean that the Quake 4 community of esreality needs to act swiftly, and some one has to take controll over the organization and tournament. This would mean that everyone understands that this is only a quick fix, and no matter what the result it will not be the perfect solution. But this would be a good oppurtunity for the US Quake 4 communtiy to show its resolve and support for the game. One last issue would be wether it would be possible to find sponsors who can either cover the 2 plane tickets, or some cash prize 1000$ for the plance tickets. This should be possible considering the US is the most important market for many manufacturers of PC equipment. I mean what can be better than a Headline on ESR and Gotfrag "xxxx saves the day" with an interview of the sponsor allowing them to plug their products. There should be plenty within the esreality community who could quickly establish a contact with a potential sponsor. (hello, Intel?)

ESReality/Gotfrag North American ESWC Quake 4 Online qualifier
sounds good to me.

entirely agreed, thought-up, and tried by me in the past day..not going to happen ;/

The key is to apply pressure on the ESWC. They hold controll.

Sure they are one of the most important pillars in esports. How ever they have to understand that the current situation is simply unacceptable. It cannot be that their is no qualifier for one of the largest gaming markets, with one of the largest active esport communities in the world. It is a slap in the face to any one who has competitive ambition in esports, and an insult to all other atheletes of other nations that had to go through a qualifying process. Failure to produce a qualifier and find a solution is a sign that their esport model is not sustainable. Bascially it would mean they loose their status in comparison to the WCG as a world championship of esports (esport olympics). It would mean that organizations like Kode5 could surpass them in significance this year.

Basically if ESWC does not hold a qualifier, they automatically lose status and are inferior to WCG, and I for one will keep reminding people until ESWC rectifies the situation.

When you (not you especially, but more "one") realize that all in our society is now mainly driven by money, you understand that that kind of situation may happen.
It's no more about loyalty, happiness of the community, fun (lol it disappeared long ago) or whatever. It's about bucks, sponsors, return and balance sheets.
not saying it's good, just stating a fact .

Did the cold war and lack of presence of USA in Moscow in 80 and of russia in LA in 84 prevent the Olympic games from remaining one of the most glorious comptition in the world?
So why would it be different with (at a lower level) ESWC?

There is one thing that spins the world and that is....check my username ;)

ESWC shot themselves in the foot it seems. Now they are missing out a couple of grand and screw an entire community, while they might as well do an online tournament to at least face their save a little bit.

ok lets see, the richier country in the world cant organize a eswc qualifier but they spend megauberbucks doing the "world saver" role? yeah right

Hehehe, South Africa (Note: 3rd world country) has had a CPL, WCG or ESWC qualifier every single year since 2000. Sure, alot of them have been crap, but we atleast got people over and they played in events.

But to get to the point, SOMEONE in the USA should be able to get a tournament together, there's frikking over 200 million people there, and they are resorting to applications!?!?! I'm sure the compeditors don't really need a prize or anything, they just want a fighting chance to be able to go and compete!

we might be 3rd world, but please dont compare RSA to the US :/

I never compared, I said we were better :P

good ;)

considering that most countries involved are about as big as our rhode island......lol. Our shit is too spread out. Its not like our e-sports leaders can drive across the country and iron out a tourney overnight.

Actually, no, none of the countries competing are about the size of Rhode Island. (Which I am guessing is a sarcastic statement... I hope) And of course who can forget such small countries such as India (over 1 billion people) China (over 1 billion people) Russia (143 million) England (60 million) Germany (80 million) and for the heck of it South Africa. (45 million) (I could go on and on)

Yeah ok, America is big, big deal, so are loads of other countries. Don't make some weird false argument when there isn't one.

You could have 4 online prelims followed by a lan tourny, which can be organised relatively quickly if someone got off their ass and did it. You have to remember that most of the players who would of been going to the ESWC prelims would have been travelling far anyway, so a quickly organised tournament wouldn't make any difference.

lol? chill, I think I realize china is bigger than rhode island....haha.

and just to clue you in. Online qualifiers suck here. 120+ ping from coast to coast makes for not fun games.

And who said anything about populations.....maybe you should re-read my post.

Sorry, country size is usually measured by both land size and population.

I actually fail to see the relevance of you post, although your pings would be too high to play from coast to coast, it would not be too high to have a few online qualifiers and then a lan final.

at least you know there's a state called rhode island, i know americans that didn't recognize rhode island :x

eeeh, no about the whole rhode island thing. really, really NO :/

lol.. the GGL is merely a facilitator of the ESWC event. d00b. mentions in one of the early posts that this some how has something to do with the GGL. I can assure you that the GGL did all it could to make this happen. If you think for one minute that the GGL was not.. then you are not looking at the facts. Running a tournament is not the hard part..and there was indeed NO issue with that and never has been as long as I have been with the GGL. This issue goes well beyond simply facilitating a tournament/event. As the GGL has stated.. our willingness to even pay for flights/hotel for the players should be proof enough of the dedication we proposed to run this tournament.

Please remember that there are many factors involved here. This is not just about a game anymore.. this is business and for many in the gaming community .. business is not something they see... so I can understand the inability to see the facts.

GGL-Alien

The fact that you see it as a buisness means that you dont have this 'dedication' in anyway that matters to the 'community'.
Your 'willingness' to spend money in order to make money is hardly a resounding battle-cry for the 'community' to be united by.
'...business is not something they see', and i can see how you justify unto yourself desicions such as v-sports and HHGL, you dismiss our criticism internally as 'we do not see'. Lucky we all live under the relentless yoke of communist oppression and have never had to learn what 'business' means. Oh wait..

As I previous stated, I am not doubting that the GGL put forth a sincere effort in running another ESWC event. However, I think it is fair to say that the GGL has substantially failed in this case as a member of the eSports communtiy, a facilitator of an event tournament, and as a business:

1) As a community participant, the GGL seems unwilling to negotiate , unable to reasonably address an issue, and its stubborness is unappealing.

2) As a facilitator/business, it appears the GGL failed to uphold its end of two different agreements as stated in the ESWC's response to this matter. Whether it be due to a disagreement in the "production" of the event or some other matter, I am not sure. I do know that the GGL has been around long enough to be completely aware of the timeframe that the ESWC had in mind along with any other expectations, which were probably detailed in a contract.

3) As a business, the GGL now probably has a good portion of it's "strong competitive fanbase" disappointed and the "casual competitive fanbase" distrustful. This will probably lead to a lower participation of players in their event and online community.

This is a mistake anyway you spin it.

Alien: I clearly see the business side of this and I will assume that you are not refering to me in your comment. Not only do I work in a professional service industry, but I own a small gaming business myself, Verge Gaming LLC.

As a gamer, this incident makes me view the GGL unfavorably to the point where it would affect my decision to attend an event.

As a business owner who sponsors players, this incident makes me question the business practices of the GGL and whether or not I want to allow my players to attend an event run by an organization that represents itself in this way.

What a complete fuckup!

Gotfrag selecting the quake players is ridiculous, it'd be like ESR selecting the cs teams.

Unbelievable.

We never said gotfrag would *select* the quake players. Read the press release again.

Do you really not believe in our ability to handle such selection seriously after having made it for Q3 the past 4 years ?

We are very aware of the problems and difficulties linked to such task and you can be sure that we will do our best to make a good selection even if it is not as easy as it seems. But please, don't take us for fools =)

why not just do wat the guy above said?
ESWC should just have lanwar, http://www.thewsvg.com/events/lanwar_2006/tournaments/ as the qualifier..top 2 americans in that should be ones to represent the US. that way they can all prac and the top 2 deserve to go. then immortal can lose without a reason to whine and fatality can enter and get a place.

if 1 of the 2 cant afford to go to eswc then move down to 3rd place etc etc

so the players hae 10 days left to book flights to europe which means it's usually way more expensive. And some also have to apply for vacation if they have a job.

ud rather they pick via application forms?

no not really, but I don't think using Lanwar results is an option

We never said gotfrag would *select* the quake players. Read the press release again.

Do you really not believe in *our* ability to handle such *selection* seriously after having made it for Q3 the past 4 years ?

I'm sorry, that makes no sense to me. Are you not contradicting yourself? Doesn't matter.

I don't take the gotfrag team for fools, I think they're very good at what they do, but what they do is CS.

My original comment still stands (#139).

You certainly did misunderstand. It probably makes sense if you consider that I'm from Games Services and not from Gotfrag =)

I hate to be so brutally honest, but thats fucking rediculous. The biggest North American names could have brought good publicity towards the game in a tournament, but now they're getting hand-picked by people like Bootman and Midway... FUCKING REDICULOUS.

Just have gotfag pick teams for CS and ggl pick players for Q4.

Man esports is going down the drain.. I really dont like the way it's going at all. This has to be the worse year for quake players EVER. All bad news all year, Starting with the release of Quake4. There reallly wasnt any of these problems from what I can remember in Quake3. Not as big as these are. Anyone else feel like this stuff is just falling apart and not going as it should be? I thought "esports" would be something else, something better. yay for greed. :\

I'm sure everything wasn't picture perfect in the land of e-sports in Quake 3's early days....the perception that so many things have gone wrong this year is probably a result of the expectations that everyone had late last year......id's big new game was about to arrive, and the CPL was getting ready to finish its first World Tour, with huge cash prizes and mainstream media coverage.

Well, id's big new game wasn't exactly a major hit with the competitive community. The big money has virtually disappeared this year, to be replaced by other entities (such as WSVG) no one's really sure about, competitions (WCG) with no FPS DM game at all and competitions (ESWC) that apparently can't get it together enough this year to hold live qualifiers in a country with one of the world's largest gaming communities.

One of the easiest ways to disappoint people is to fail to live up to their expectations.

(If you haven't seen it yet, go back and find Comment #49 by Amp, he sums it up quite nicely.)

Ah, Henny Penny...the sky is falling! :\

Sounds to me like if you want a shot at ESWC you better be at Lanwar to state your case and prove to the gotfrag boys you're the best.

even though lanwar is about 15-20 days after the may 30th deadline for gotfrag to release the final list of players

Just off going Midway's words. Seemed like he was talking as if Lanwar was going to have bearing on their selections, and be part of their "research".

I'm ready to laugh when I see the WC3 invites. The Gotfrag coverage of WC3 is absolutely horrible, and they don't have any knowledge of the current scene. Many things have changed since last summer (shortround has gone inactive, subo and others have quit the game) and there are a bunch of new stars (NilknarfLP, Phreak, etc). It will really make me sad if they make this purely based off of accomplishments, when there are a handful of players who are currently in much better shape than shortround, who obviously has done the most for the American WC3 community over the years. Look at AC2 WC3 1v1, NilknarfLP is in the Finals, awaiting the winner of ToT)Boo and verGe.Rainman... I still think shortround is probably top 5, but it would be a shame to see him invited, just purely based on off of his previous accomplishments, and not take a look at his current form.

I don't think it's GGL's fault at all... Remember Canada also lost their liscencing where ESWC stated the same reason "unable to fulfill their contracted requirements".

If you look at the list of countries and the amount of reps they plan on sending, except for the gaming giants of the world (Germany, China, Korea, USA) the only countries that have more than 1 qualifying spot for each team are the middle-eastern countries (hi oil).. so it obviously required a lot of money to purchase a liscense for this tournament.

I don't think anyone but ESWC is to blame here, we're gonna be seeing a tournament half filled with no-names from IRAN, instead of having a better-quality tournament with more qualified players/teams participating.

I hope GGL decides to hold their own tournament with the money they set forth for ESWC, I'm sure that would be a lot more fun than this year's retarded ESWC.

Also wanted to add that you don't see many WC3 comments about this on this page because the WC3 community isn't aware of this site... but if you were to look at a wc3 community site, you would see the same complaints that you see here.

GL to everyone and I hope this all ends up ok : (

u5.Newbiee - Team Captain of United 5 Warcraft III Team

"shortround, who obviously has done the most for the American WC3 community over the years."

Sigh...... Wizard has won more than Shortround?

Wizard - ACON4 1st place (only American to win an internation LAN RTS competition), ESWC 2003 6th place, GGL DigitalLife 2nd place, GGL Americup 1st place, CPL Summer 2005 5th place

Shortround - 2nd at WCG 2005, 4th at WCG 2006, CPL Summer 2005 7th place.

This doesn't include how Wizard has placed higher than Shortround in about 75% of the USA events they have played in (ESWC and WCG qualifiers). So..... how exactly is Shortround > Wizard? Heck, you don't even mention him. 0.o

Though I guess things will change after the US Open again......

money ruins everything including esports
money > all so sad

yes it ruins everything, but it also keeps everything going. a good % of the people on here and those competing in tournaments wouldn't remotely think of coming on here and playing a sub-par game like Q4 if it weren't for some aspirations of money.

Right of reply of ESWC concerning GGL publication.

“The Global Gaming League was surprised and disappointed by the unilateral announcement from Games Services about Electronic Sports World Cup (ESWC) 2006 United States Qualification process.”

GGL has been notified the 17th of May that they were no more in charge of the licence.

“Over the last few months, GGL has been working to resolve Game Services’ new business demands related to ESWC.”

After months of negotiations GGL signed a contract for the ESWC 2006 licence with obligations the 29th November 2005. ESWC has never changed its business demands towards GGL. Conversely GGL decide to call their engagement into questions. We agreed on new conditions on the 21st of April 2006 to resolve the issue and GGL has received a signed fax concerning the extension of the partnership to a studio and live broadcast rights to make possible the US preliminaries. But GGL changed again their request and asked for more options that we couldn’t afford. As we were middle of May and as nothing append to select players, we took the difficult resolution that you know.

“As recently as yesterday, we made a new proposal to meet these demands, including GGL once again sponsoring the travel expenses of the U.S. team.”

ESWC agreed 2 times on 2 different GGL proposals that met our demands. 2 times GGL did not respect their commitment.

The only thing we can say is that we are really sorry for the American community that deserve a real challenge and fair competitions for ESWC but time is short to do thing in a better way today.

Matthieu Dallon
Games-Services ESWC / CEO

Despite the glaring bold and (understandably) imperfect English, i'm still inclined to believe this is all the GGLs fault, because i'm a c*nt.

thats what they say too man :P

i'm sure you could have come to some sort of agreement with GGL ... anything is better than a CS site commanding the fate of Q4 and WC3 players ... terrible decision

The only problem seems to be that time was running out to negotiate further. Given ESWC is only 1.5 months away, that makes sense.

From Zarkof's comment above it seems Gotfrag will only be part of the committee that decides the participants to get their name mentioned and to serve tea, which seems appropriate.

why not just do wat the guy above said?
ESWC should just have lanwar, http://www.thewsvg.com/events/lanwar_2006/tournaments/ as the qualifier..top 2 americans in that should be ones to represent the US. that way they can all prac and the top 2 deserve to go. then immortal can lose without a reason to whine and fatality can enter and get a place.

if 1 of the 2 cant afford to go to eswc then move down to 3rd place etc etc

esports is a joke, a stale aging joke


ps. hahahaha

ha-ha-ha

bitch fights..

get out the handbags!!!

u can borrow one of mine

\o/ tytyytytyty

do u want the brown ensemble with the short handle again? or would u like one with a longer range?

longer would be good :D and the bigger the better :x

i can borrow my mom's

ill just ask her for u

i wanna be a girl aswell, help me!

why do u always bring sex into everything 240?

ow god now you are starting to sound like tom !

although this time was intentional unlike before :(

im trying to revise for my exam and ure talking about sex ; ((

y ruin

coz ima ruiner :x

step back from the pc !!!!

ps gl for the exam

GIRLS anD W0000000h0000000 S E X

o dear someone seems to be not getting any :P

Right hand heroes

but put away the rats err dogs first

.. wtf

It's a shame. A qualifier would have, for sure, brought q4 into the spotlight for the first big instance in USA, that as a result, q4 would have attracted a lot of new people at the table of 1v1 fps. However, all people who are involved in esport should have known, that this thing is going to be a sooner or later bureaucratic instead of a completly (e)sportevent. We have to face it, that's just the first major example of esport's future ;)

Given our total lack of interest and distain for Quake 4 the Xfire.be community will happily go dibs in with gotfrag and we can pick 1 each!

Why limit yourself to actual gamers? I suggest a telethon!

Reading all these anti GGL comments I'm now confused as to which gaming organisation this site actually likes? cxg?

they are anti everyone

Fuck ESReality man, damn comment abusers.. ugh

Fuck you at first! :D

Fuck everyone RAWR

pretty much people who don't fuck everything up or fuck us over.

ESWC and QLAN for starters.

ESWC ?

in the best of humour, kind of ironic :)

people will be more inclined to believe ESWC's statement as it is more detailed and less vague, look forward to more updated

Does the community has to like any specific one? Dude, it's not like GGL would do TAS and VSAS and HHGL and everyone loves them for good or for worse.

tosspot.org ftw?

shit site, no pron.

Interesting also that the same community that the GGL paid for to go to ESWC last year is now turning on them, despite having 2 conflicting stories put in front of them.

you pay them, make them rich, give them fame and later on you get shit in your neck back.

Yeah, this e-sports is trully rewarding .

ESWC one has more content, looks like both companies are trying to save grace, also without gamers there would be no GGL nor ESWC. If a qualification for one of the 'biggest' and 'best' events in gaming doesn't run at all let along smoothly, then you've got to ask some serious questions.

Surprise! All national partners pay for the trips of their representatives. GGL didn't do anything special.

I see your point and i understand. But its hardly like the GGL is doing all of this out of the kindess of their heart, they're trying to make money, they're a business and when they get something wrong the punter (us) is allowed to criticise.
It may have been my above comment that pushed you into posting and i apologise if it was. The 'its all GGLs fault' was more of a joke than anything, if it matters i dislike all corporations equally.

ggggl

why are so many people interested in whats going on in the american scene? especially all the euros?

cause we don't want your excuses after the event has happened, "well we'd of pwned you euros if we'd of been there" etc

uhh 2 people are going anyways? 1 of those most likely being socrates?

a lot of faith in gotfrag you have

or izzit about q4 scene?

USA stupido

I keep forgetting that people at Gotfrag, like myself, dont read ESR/WCR/other sites, are cave men with knuckles that drag on the ground, and live in our closets. Do you honestly think that any Gotfrag involvement, which by the way is not the sole involvement, is going to be any biased than any other organization's involvement in the selection process?

I mean a blind man could see that certain Quake 4 players have aligned themselves with entities in the community making the selection process that much more difficult.

Not calling anyone biased but its the look of impropriety thats the problem. I know alot of you here have issues with GotFrag, because we had some bad/poor/abysimal coverage of Q4/WC3 but for the love of god do you think we're going to do something as stupid as tarnish our name even more with the Quake community?

Not on purpose.

hi jesuit

USA USA USA USA USA !!!!!

NL NL NL

never :>

lol

GGL + ESWC had an issue that affects the American quake4 scene, gotfrag isn't qualified to pick the Quake4 players, that's the general gripe here.

Does it suck, yes of course it does. Is it some sort of disaster that will destroy e-sports v-sports (err competitive gaming), hell no.

ESWC will go on to do great things, GGL will also. Granted I'm biased but with the 1.25 million GGL investment in China and the sign on with AOL made public just days ago it hardly seems the management there is just sitting on it's ass looking for ways to fuck up and shrink the community. On the other hand ESWC moving forward makes it seem they are trying their best also.

Some times the best laid plans of mice and men go awry. It's fair to be pissed yes, but stuff like this happens.

Where does GGL get it's millions from? They seem to have an endless pit of cash and a shed load of contacts. But I've not a clue how they actually make money, obviously advertising plays a part - but how so?

I could be wrong, but i'd guess GGL are in this for the long term and as such, I doubt they make a profit just yet, but i am sure they plan to one day. They have some shrewd people heading the company and people who have been very very succesful in their pasts.

I'd guess though, for now at least, they make a loss.

Fair enough, as you say the "Corporate Team GGL" speaks for itself, they all seem highly accomplished. Just reading their bios you get the feeling they’re not gonna be taken for mugs.

I’ll take your “assumption” as fact, given who you are :o)

Seriously, the only fact in my statement is that GGL are in this for the long term. Other than that, I know as much as you do.

I guess someone (GGL or ESWC/Games services) will need that soon :

http://7omboss.free.fr/Videos/Chewbacca_Defense.avi

IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

Dear Matthieu Dallon of Games-Services ESWC / CEO.

I am not interested in excuses or reasons. Ultimately it boils down to the fact that the ESWC failed to create a binding agreement with the GGL. Furthermore your plan B, simply put "sucks" and greatly diminishes the ESWC. Which means that imo the WCG now holds the undisputed number 1 position with in esports. How ever I appreciate the achievements and contributions the ESWC has made to the esport communtiy, and maybe you can become again what you once used to be...

It is most unfortunate that the following ESWC claims no longer apply: (Source)

The Grand Final - The world e-sporting benchmark

Once a year, "Games-Services" gathers together all of the champions who qualified during the preliminary rounds for an international event commanding several hundreds of thousands of dollars. All the champions are invited to participate free of charge...
...The ESWC Grand Final is internationally recognised as the best e-sporting event in the world: it is the most innovative, the most professional, the most in tune with champions and their expectations....
http://www.esworldcup.com/2006/?act=about

MAybe next year the ESWC will be the number 1. This year you are not what you claim to be, and you know what that makes you.... a pretender, or some would even call you a liar.

Calm down, it's not a nuclear disaster or sthing.
Just a bug in the process of professionalization(?) of video gaming, which is still young.

Im wondering if all these big business talkers have paied everyone for their wins yet?

This could be the funniest thread I have ever read in the entire history of ESReality. I mean, it has everything. This thread is like the biggest fucking summer blockbuster movie that everyone has been waiting years for! It's got drama (a brandan comment), thrills , excitement (nearly 300 comments in 24 hours), action (every single gaming organization is called out), and a twist (a post from midway).

Forget The Da Vinci Code...

There's only one thing to see this Friday:

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1085110

Happy 5/19!

nothing beats "Polos is RULEZ..." threads

sorry to say that :x

I am going to watch The Da Vinci Code next week, I will post a comparative review (DVC vs. ESWC thread) after I've seen it.

I hope someone makes a flash movie of this thread meanwhile, I'm too lazy to read it all

all the negative news this week has everyone in pissy moods

want sex?

The selection process is gonna be based on players Sponsors and who can pay the most for the selection. So! Im gonna sat Fatal1ty if he decides to play and hmmm maybe Bill Gates has enough to buy his spot. But seriously its gonna depend on who's sponsors get along with gotfag? That's just the way it seems. :>

dkt said his wedding is on the same weekend as eswc, so you can count him out. the second spot will prolly go to cha0 or cl0ck

Someone agreed to marry dkt?

zing

If the problem is 2 players, it is SO SIMPLE.

Get only socrates to play and dump the rest.

no.
considering cha0ticz has beaten socrates, he deserves every right to be considered. it would've been nice to see what LC, immortal, cl0ck, dj and a few others could've done vs those guys, but as it stands now, based soley off of past "successes" in Q4, socrates and cha0ticz are the only logical choices.

does E3 count?

no, from what they've all said, the playing conditions and setup were a joke, and it didn't sound like they took it very seriously at all.

From GotFrag: http://www.gotfrag.com/portal/story/32580/?cp...nt_5063157

143Lee Today at 4:07 PM EST
The situation is what it is. It's unfortunate, but these things happen. I think everyone's focus here should be on finding the best way for people to be considered and selected for ESWC.

For GotFrag's part, ESWC has asked us, as one of their official media partners, to help out. We'll be going around talking to each community's leading figures and players to get some input. As numerous folks from GF have said, we know CS very well. But we're not going to ignore the leading sites and folks from any game that we're helping ESWC with here. Look for an announcement on this soon.
Lee Chen | President | www.gotfrag.com | #gotfrag

http://www.esworldcup.com/2006/popup.php?act=...petition=1 team #10
edit: ahh nm they deleted it

i noticed

Someone just hold a 16 man online tourney and let the victors go

I suggest some of the following in no particular order


socrates
chaoticz
clock
clamp
destrukt
lost cause
mik3d
ermac
nomadic
immortal
nine
warlock
meta
apostol
dj
scooby

Regardless of who was at fautl, i'm still a huge supporter of both the GGL and ESWC.

whats really sad about all of this is that the same community who whines about there not being enough events. events cost too much, the new games are shit.. blah blah.. are the same people that shit on companies that are simply trying to provide the community with an event. Shit did not work out this time.. ffs people.. get over it.

To hei.. if you knew anything about me you would know I am all about the community.. but I also do not sugar coat my distain towards most of those in the community that have ZERO respect or understanding of what it takes to run events, maintain events, pay for events and still keep most people happy. This IS a business.. and if you can not see that e-sports will NOT grow until we start to treat it like a business then you can continue to play Game Cube in realitive obscurity. Most of you keep trashing the organizations that even give you a reason to play most games (especially in the case of a bunk version of Quake).. and yet you expect to get paid.. and have all of your gaming needs handed to you. Get serious! This is why the 'real' gaming community resides mostly among the 'casual' players that still play baseQ4. These gamers just want a chance.. they appreciate when someone offers them a chance to play for a prize and most of them would not shit on the hand that feeds them.

This may all turn out to be a good thing.. just as the competion between the mods will end up being a good thing.. so will competition between organizations fighting to keep the community alive. We may find new ways.. new sponsors.. new players throughout this entire mishap..

d00b.. dont come to the events then. Your attitude is not welcome. I sure as fuck will not pay for your plane ticket to attend an event in which you have a chance to win more money then you have probably made in your life time.. so you can just shit on it.. show up late to your match,, cry about the settings... whine about the setup... cry about the HHGL... shit on esreality.. so on..

I dont always agree with things any organization does.. but the big picture is that most (if not all) of them are doing one thing.. . keeping your happy ass in front of your PC so you can click away at the KB, fire the mouse, and play a f**king video game.

I will make this an official post now... for anyone in here that wants to continue to shit on organizations like the GGL, Got frag.. so on.. to step up and offer some help. Volunteer to help admin a league/event/tournament. ... actually show up an event and see first hand (behind the scenes) how difficult some of these things can be. My email is [email protected] if you are able to help with Quake 2,3, or 4 and want to make a positive contribution.

GGL-Alien

I respect your point and will have to agree to differ on our definition of 'best for' and 'community'. I have never wanted to play for money, i play games that i enjoy, and i enjoyed when there was a near proffesional level of competition within them.
I'm against forcing change in order to create competition, host these 'events' and draw capital from sponsors. But like i said im not running a business and i do it for fun. This freedom allows me to 'shit on your hands' because you do not feed me, although i'd rather refer to it as mild criticism.
As one last point, this reply to you has been the first time the GGL has influenced or altered in any way my life as a games player. The attitude that organizations such as GGL and CPL are 'keeping your happy ass in front of your PC so you can click away at the KB, fire the mouse, and play a f**king video game' is fundamentally flawed in respect to me specifically, and in my opinion incomplete when in respect to the average gamer. You offer opportunities to gamers to play for cash, gamers offer opportunities to you to make cash (in a general sense, im unaware of your finacial situation).

holy mother of god that is a horrible comment, where you take the piss at every gamer out there. you should edit this at once.

what the fuck is this supposed to mean? "I dont always agree with things any organization does.. but the big picture is that most (if not all) of them are doing one thing.. . keeping your happy ass in front of your PC so you can click away at the KB, fire the mouse, and play a f**king video game. "

we should be happy for any shit provider of tournaments (not necessary directed at you) that come along our way? no, because the vast majority of players and spectators doesnt give a shit about the money because the amount is so incredibly small compared to the "effort" anyways. most players want to have fun and play a game that is fun, and will do so if you host your tournaments or not.


so how's this mr GGL-Alien:
I dont always agree with things any player does.. but the big picture is that most (if not all) of them are doing one thing.. . keeping your happy ass in front of your PC so you can stab away at the KB, click at the mouse, and make f**king money hosting a video game site.


probably the most incoherent post ever, but there you go.

edit: I'm not anti GGL in any way, and I applaud your efforts, but understand that you have to be able to take critisim / ignore flames, and be able to apologize or say "we will get there next time" without going all postal in the comments on a site with as shitty a userbase as ESR's.

Alien,

I respect your right to defend your company, but please do it in tasteful and respectful way. You are a figure head of sorts for the GGL when you post on these forums.

The only things I have personally criticized are 1) the GGL's response to the incident and 2) the setup and running of events of previous online and offline GGL events that I have attended. I am suspecting that both side are spinning, but obviously one side of the spin is pulling more weight in my mind.

I agree that some of the flaming here is unnecessary (consider the environment), but a lot of it is legitmate window into what gamers may think of certain organizations.

As for my personal credentials, I have previously been a league admin for 2 different online leagues over a span of 5 years and I have been a tournament admin for 4 years for 3 major leagues: CPL, ESWC, and ACON5.

I would personally love to help the GGL out as admin or consultant as long as I was compensated for it (Yes, I do work a full 50 hour professional job a week -- gotta pay the bills --and No I would not make more money gaming at a single event unless my name was Jonathan Wendel).

[email protected]

"I dont always agree with things any organization does.. but the big picture is that most (if not all) of them are doing one thing.. . keeping your happy ass in front of your PC so you can click away at the KB, fire the mouse, and play a f**king video game. "

What an utterly retarded comment. You come here complaining about people's lack of respect for your work as an organization, and then you make the exact same mistake, disparaging the gamers.

"and most of them would not shit on the hand that feeds them."

For most of the gamers here the odds of losing money attending your events (entrance fee) are better than the odds of winning money, and yet many of them would gladly attend anyhow. On the other hand, if it wasn't for us, the gamers, there would be no basis for your existance.

You are the initiator. You make the decisions. When you make bad decisions people complain. Get over it.

I have no problem taking critism.. and I do agree with most of what you just said .... but I think you are missing my point. I am not saying that the 'organization' is the end all. I am simply making the statement that many of those whining and crying are the same ones that whine and cry when playing for money. I totally agree with you... as I stated.. that the real community is those that do NOT play for money. These are the people that ALL organizations should be aiming for. These are the players that help keep an organization alive and kicking.... even though they may not play for money.. they are the bulk of those gamers that watch the matches and help keep the sponsors coming back for more.

Oh...btw.. MOST organizations are run mostly by volunteers who spend hours on hours helping run tournaments/events.. and never get paid. Also.. most organizations never make a profit. ...this is a fact.


GGL-Alien

kuch *le clanbase*

I am not postal at all.. and I do take flame just fine. I am just frustrated with so many opinions from so many people that really have no clue about what it takes to run tournaments/events and who really do not have a clue what it takes to run them at the magnitude that organizations like the CPL, qcon, WCG, ESWC and such do on a regular basis. I am the first to point out that the GGL has a long ways to go in creating a truly solid base community. I have offered many ideas on how to improve this.. but even I can not totally understand the scope at which these organizations run things. There is so much to all of this.. it is not a matter of black and white. If you ask many that deal with me on a daily basis during tournaments.. you will hear that I am fair and will not hesitate to change the way I see something if I feel an alternative offers a better solution.

i would just like to see more positive 'suggestions and help' from the community that we work hard to support.. rather then a constant barrage of garbage about what we are NOT doing.. or what may be going wrong. Personally.. I am a bit disapointed in all parties involved in making the NA ESWC happen.. but it should be pointed out that it has been shown that ALL parties were working towards the same goal... it just did not end up working out.

GGL-Alien

most people doesn't have a clue, that's why you should ignore most of what is being said in such comments that come because of a post like this, and maybe not even bother replying :)

I guess it's admirable that you do reply, but I'm not sure if it's such a good idea :o

anyways, keep up the good work to all the peeps at GGL