In football it happens when the other player makes a mistake, in Quake it depends on the map's spawn layout and spawnsystem and is completely random.

I often die from mistakes, don't you?

i dont get your point

Like it or hate it? No point needed.

just found it retarded that you answer a arguement made against you without an argument yourself

Scratch that. Just saying there is resemblance between a soccer penalty and a spawn kill.

in the sense of one team (player) getting a freebie, sure. does he deserve it? nah, because the other player didnt do anything to have a penalty against him

shouldnt be allowed a freebie in high-level play

Wrong. One of the things that hooked me into quake was when i spawnfragged someone as a noob. Best feeling ever for you and worst feeling ever for the other guy. Shit happens

wrong? im talking about high-level games as in the video above, youre talking about games as a noob. at least get on the same page before you start calling "wrong". fucking idiot

wrong

They're fine in concept, but they need improving in QL. Personally I would like each map to have double or even triple the amount of spawn points, so you can continue forcing/predicting the zone but not necessarily nail a rocket-rail on a fresh spawner (or at least not as frequently).

Maybe converting each current spawn into clusters of 5 individual spawns, so that the attacker has to commit that little bit extra and sacrifice a bit of positioning to deal maximum damage or get the frag, and give the spawner that little bit extra possibility of surviving a rocket-rail rape.

Either that or give fresh spawners 1 second immunity or 50% damage reduction or whatever. I still don't full understand how the current "spawn protection" works anyway ("split-second green suit").

there's spawnprotection in ql, rail+rocket combo might leave you 35hp...

Ah so it is 50%, but how long does it last? 0.1 seconds?

0 seconds in tournaments and maybe 1 second in pub duel.

im not sure but I hate it, could even be half a second, not sure. when you spawn a server you can switch it off (dunno what's the default)

sucks imo if you need 3 rails to kill a freshspawner, 125hp stands for 140/100 stack, kinda.. :llll

One alternative could be a system where spawned players can't die within 1 sec. They take full damage but they don't loose their last HP.

Personally I would hate this because I like spawn frags. It makes epic comebacks more plausible.

yeah and personally I believe most spawnfrags are avoidable, just puts you to a bad position. choosing to spawn rightaway is often a gamble :P and like you said, it spices up the duels and adds some excitement and also spawnkilling efficiently needs a lot of skill imo!

E: I wouldn't change anything, just remove spawnprotection too!

at the level you play at, sure, QL would probably benefit from it's removal, but take into consideration that further down the line there are noobs trying to get into quake, and given QL's small userbase, reducing the amount of rape is a must.

having a promode and a noobmode could be a better thing, but then again with such a small community it'll do only harm. And I wouldnt be so sure noobs who come to ql hate spawnfragging? In duel they will get bashed first 100 games no matter what anyway :3

now that you mention it, promode and noobmode can co-exist as long as the differences are minor (spawn protection being a perfect example).

Yeah, I turn it off, I think most others spawning a server do too?

I love spawnfrags.

I miss the old ZTN. Stay at mega get spawn on railer, get to yellow dude spawns at lg, stay on gl and spam the corridor... Now it's shit.

DM20 is awesome for that in TDM, Purga and DP have some cool shit too. Deep inside has the rocket spawn which happens a lot, or the red corridor spawn...

Without spawnfrags QL would be boring imo

Pretty much the same.
I really liked that PG/Rail combo from GL :)
Also, aerowalk was a lot more fun to play :(

Have they changed aerowalk spawns? WHAT?

Well you nearly don't have the nmy spawning low bumper when you stand near MH anymore for example

Not true.

?? really doesn't happen that much compared to q3....

Also, out of GL tele exit, spawnfrag near RL with a flick rocket or rail, didn't see that one in QL yet.

I didn't say it's as much as it happened in q3, but from the games I play, I have a feeling that spawn gets forced a lot

the excitement from q3 spawnfrags is much higher than ql because there wasn't as much being "forced". in ql it seems like after you get a frag you can just immediately look in 1-2 spots and expect to get a frag. when it was more random and spawnfrags got strung together it became more exciting because the likelihood of it happening was lower.

true

Spawnfrags were always a part of any Quake title.

It's worst in QL out of all of them by far.

I loved to spawnfrag, you know the feeling like being on top of the world at those very moments, and I didn't mind being spawfrag either. It was just part of the game and no one really complained about it back in the [Q3] days.

Hub for example lost for me 50% of it's beauty due to QL shit spawn system/protection.

in ql noobs cryed for spawnsystem, but id made it worse, you can force spawns now a lot more easy.. etc looks at furious RA<->RL area, toxicity all other a map, aero all other a map...
what sux... watched jibos q3 movie, fuck I miss real spawnrape, not forced shit..

Problem is randomness. Never liked randomness and never will, people should achieve things with merit, not with random luck or unluck.

Would prefer a system where you can only choose 1 spawn once, until all are chosen and then they reset.

This would allow cool situations where u could sacrifice yourself, keeping in mind a spawn u still have available to regain control(mega coming up or red).
Also you would have to keep track of which spawns are left for him(another skill to add) and decide based on that.

In this situation spawn frags would be deserved, since u were ready for the spawn ur opponent chose/didn't let available.

high scoring games are always a good thing for spectators

can't get new people to chess since they don't understand it, the beauty that in a balanced quake brains>aim.

"can't get new people to chess since they don't understand it"

You could not be more wrong. It is one of the most popular games.

ffs, i see old(no pun intended :P) people(that don't even touch a computer or smart phone) starting to play chess once they enter retirement, under the tree shades in a park.

In fact when Bobby Fischer was competing(peak of mainstream popularity, it was even broadcasted on big tv channels) EVERYONE and their cat were playing chess.

"high scoring games are always a good thing for spectators"

Is that why football is so popular ?

chess is on decadence for quite a long time and fifa has been trying for years (with actual measures) to make it higher scoring.

Football and games should not be compared in popularity since one is a traditional sport the other is... well, hardly even a sport.

Football matches that end up with 0:0 results are boring, people go see matches because they want to see goals.

high scoring games tend to lack suspence. frags have seemingly less importance. look at cpm. after 3rd game it's tedious as fuck to watch.

and the other end of the spectrum is also bad. 3 games of 1-0?

it's about balance. this is why i like bo3+ where you see a fast map contrasted with a slow one. a game of quake for me isn't one map, it's a combination of different styles of maps. different speeds=different skillsets.

u wot m8.
not all cpm games are high scoring affairs.
it depends on the map and the skill of the players.
cpm can be just as exciting as any ql game and thats without ever having a pro scene.

no. hearing everything and not having actual competition keeps the actual dueling depth low in cpm.

when hal_9000 and nzro shoot each other in mindblowing ways (as in the fragmovies) it actually doesn't mean they have much duelling skill other than being really used to each other and the maps. cpm is mechanics. mechanics is interesting only so much.

it can be as exciting but has it been withing last couple years?

I don't like them. It's an element contrary to what Duel is about, in my opinion. To me, Duel stands for two players killing for resources. Generally the winner is who did it best. Spawn frags don't necessarily fit in. It's an unfortunate aspect of the game that not every player knows how to take advantage of. Play a few minutes of Call of Duty to experience it in the ugliest form.

I like spawnfrags, they spice up the game, make comebacks possible, make games more interesting and pour lots of emotions into the game - for both sides - either you're the one spawnfragging and feel like you're on top of the world OR the one getting spawnfragged and feel like the world is turning against you.

The spawn system could be improved, I don't like the idea of spawnprotection though.

go read some ancienc archives, if you came to this game in 2010. this is like talking about how the wheel is cool because it spins...

Would you be happier if i put this in RB forum?

They are good. If you die it's your fault most of the time.

spawn kills are good in moderation. I never played Quake 3, bur from videos it seems like the spawn system is way unbalanced in favor of the player in control. Yes I understand that if a player makes mistakes, they should be punished for it aka. get span killed, but there's a limit to how much this should occur. this gives makes it more balanced for the person out of control, and actually makes spawn killing a bit more skillful for the person doing the fragging.

Quake-LIVE players will never know the joy of spawn frags.....

I know the joy of spawn frags.

i enjoy vq3 spawn system infinitely more than ql's, the way you can stack up frags is just pure joy
that being said, ql is probably more balanced for competitive play (probably even if you disregard the weapon balance)

Really? Spawnfrag analogous to penalty?
Probably the worst yet.

Try american football:
Spawnfragging is like getting a random amount of field goal after touchdown, each worth 6 points.

The losing team also gets punished by having two players sent off until they won 25 yards.

Spawnfragging gives ql game deciding random elements. Shootmania has no such thiing. Think about that.

Spawnfragging is like getting a random amount of field goal after touchdown, each worth 6 points.

Getting random amount of fieldgoals
is like the exact same thing as random amount of spawnfrags. But theres not usual with 6 spawnfrags, it's maybe 1 or in rare cases 2.

I was unclear.
You get 6 points for a touchdown but 1 additional point for the field goal in American football. To compare, in quake you get the same amount of points for both the score and the "field goal". And you get a random amount of tries for field goal.

This makes , for example, dm13 between equal players a lot more random than what is needed.


1 point should be 1 point, I know no other game that gives you 1+random when you score. Its just bad design.

I think spawnkills are great, in a game your confidence is boosted and you are rewarded for great map knowledge. The amount of points isn't the issue, perhaps lower the points for a spawnfrag than a regular frag or whatever then.

It would be even better if you could toy with him for a minute like kitten and be able to vent your need for domination. Make newly spawned players unable to pickup weapons!

After all, you managed to kill your opponent once. Why shouldn't you be awarded?

Welcome to Duel.

Well, have fun in obscurity.

I hope you don't complain when ql is replaced by shootmania.

It wont

you should be punished for dying, so yes, good

That is what the scores are for. The enemy gets one point.

Thats why i always wondered why you get 2 points in basket ball

So that you can get a little bit more,3 points, for a long throw and less for a free throw,1 point. Probably an adaptation due to how the game evolved.

q3 spawn system was a lot better...

It has nothing to do with "random points". There are many factors coming into it. Just watch last DH finals and how often they decide not to try spawn frag (even on tox where it's very easy to force spawn). It's not a mistake but calculated decision. Spawn frag is usually reward for clean kill, good position or risk taken.

Yea! bring back random spawns, this new system took a lot from the fun factor of the game.

how it feels to screw up a spawnkill

much prefer to watch fights than spawn kills

<3 spawnkilling

probably have shown it but as it comes to eyjmera:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTT2j8zdUFE&am...p;index=14

That's what I call GG.