Rapha's play felt so underwhelming, he was constantly making really stupid mistakes

must be hard to stay motivated for qc in its current state

name 1

Not having 60% LG.

from which match?

Any.

ok, link me a vod of any of his matches

twitch.tv/quakechampions

I guess times over, ur bluff has been exposed ))

hahaha you are funny

hahaha you suck

raported

It's a different game.


pssst...



















not Quake

The game had 10 different champs.
The USA has 2 players who made the final 16. And IMO only two world class duellers in dahang and rapha.

It means no duel players in the USA have had anywhere near the duel preparation the Europeans and Russians have across all champs leading up to this, (even I played most of these guys in pubs on small tourneys) and the scary thing is, 2 of the players who made it to the final 16 only got there because two other players who did better than them could not get a visa to go.

I pretty much made this statement 3 weeks ago with regards to the Americans, both Rapha and Dahang are capable, but I think they are always going to suffer in champs due to the above.

Luckily both will come away from quake con with some good money so its not the end of the world.

I also think the game has some balancing issues, which overtime will be resolved, so some players will lose the unfair advantages they had.

Agree with all but the unfair advantages. Unfair would be to not have even ground, i.e. p2w mp games. Balancing issues are there for everyone, be it weapons or champions. Ofc one would be favored more if some balancing problem is laying on his strong sides, but this is like to discuss how the ql rail nerf affected the good railers, hitbox size aimers and so on. Balancing is not unfair advantages as they are there to be exploited for everyone, making it fair.

More of discussion should be the hitbox change of the smaller champs if it was in effect in the tourney. As some of the players was counting to be hard targets and this nerfed their gameplan/effectiveness. Tho I must admit that before the hitbox change the small champs where really hard in long and even mid range, especially with their speed (looking at you, anarki).

You're only as good as your competition. EU scene is miles better than NA in regard to activity and talent pool.

More players, more chances for talent. It's simple really. In order for NA to do better in future events, we need more players, and fierce competition among NA competitors.

time for you to get out of retirement, I still remember your pummel on the first item at t2 at (I think?) babbages CPL.

This was true for QL as well, yet rapha still constantly made outstanding results at quakecons

I watched a bit of all tourneys so far. As far as I can tell aside from the "Quake" name and the basic idea of armor and mega control this games strategy is a HUGE difference from the past.

I saw the same type of mistakes not just from rapha but with all. In such an enviroment it's not uncommon to see aim difference make such a big impact. The situation favors a player like clawz rather then the strategists (not saying clawz lacks it, but come on... we are comparing with rapha here)

Especially a player like rapha is known for his brutal execution in duel with such a small margin for making mistakes. He would suffer the most in an entirely new concept of duel. I suspect he might(or rather WILL) figure out a way to get back to his "perfect text book" in time.

Someone pointed out on stream that rapha always got better during a tourney after each game, now he could not do this with the gaps in strategy, so rather I think he will progress for each next tournament.

I have no idea how he lost, logic dictates that he should have defeated Dahang since as far as I'm aware Rapha quit OW to play QC specifically for this tournament and Dahang didn't.

Maybe he just had a bad day and Dahang had a great day but that doesn't add up, who knows really, for all we know it could have been anything.

Dahang hit all his rails. Rapha didn't.

Rail is like THE weapon here and I don't know why people aren't using it, aren't fucking abusing it.

Everyone goes face-to-face with sorlag, instead of doing what evil\agent did incredibly well in Quake Live: 1201239210 rails from kilometers.

Never got to watch the rapha vs dahang game unfortunately, if that's true then what a hollow victory :///

Man... now i'm missing those sinister map games with rails through the grate :(

using rail in QC is a bit of a gamble, unless you feel REALLY confident with it, but for the time beeing I think only clawz can say that about himself, namely in tournament setting where nerves come into play

if you dont hit your rail game can punish you in a a lot of ways, and it seems to be more severe than it used to be in Q3

Is that because of relatively low stacks compared to ql.

With even a light stack in ql (lets say 100/100) a player would shrug off 80dmg rail at range as they need to take another two hits without picking any health before death. A sinlge 25h would make this three hits.

200-80 | 120-80 | 60-120 | dead

The initial rail does not put them in a dangerous situation.

This extends to a more heavily stacked player in ql – who can basically ignore rails when at 200/200. If they have control the smaller armors a rail after 200/200 will put them at ~173/146 – which will be stacked to ~173/~200 on their next YA pickup.

When one compares this to the lighter stack heros in qc the problem becomes more apparent. You can take two rails and a small amount of extra health before death.

Perhaps it would be interesting to look at how qc with ligher champions plays compared to t4 in ql as stack is potentially much lower there in an even game.

This “steps of damage to death” is an interesting aspect and has been roughly the same in all the previous quake games. It is not just the amount of effective health (400hp@full stack) but the damage weapons in relation to this and the number of hits it takes to kill a player.

Looking at the amount of damage a weapon deals is not the whole story, which is why switching around the rail damage a little bit (60 or 70 or 90 or whatever) is only a small part of the story. Does this matter? Not overly because you still only need to take one rail before you are one rail + a touch of lg away from death.

What the fuck does this have to do with what I quoted? The lighter characters cannot play a run an poke game because as soon as they trade rails they are heavily on the back foot compared to ql where they are still two rails away from this point.

This means in order to play run and poke they are gambling their rail % vs their opponents vs their opponents situational awareness on them. If their opponent hits they are heavily on the back foot.

This aspect is very much like ut. In ut a fully armored player has around 350 effective hp BUT this can be burst down in two shots and the out of control unstacked player has maybe 150 which can be one shot. This is a very simplistic overview so please no pedantics.

UT duel could potentially be an indicator of what qc duel ends up looking like.

tho the smaller champs are a lot harder to hit. Especially anarki flying with great speed.

I really like the comparison to UT duel, even though I played it briefly around the time UT3 came out

regarding the paragraph on light characters beeing unable to play run and poke - I think that was the intended type of gameplay for them against heavy characters, and in mind of developers higher movement speed and smaller hitbox were suposed to compensate the disadvantage, yet as we have seen numerous times it proves to be ineffective between players with close to equal skill.
I guess someone forgot to do the math.

Basically every frag nyx or anarki took from scalebearer or sorlag was a clutch moment in between initial damage from rocket spam, using the ability and finishing off the oponent using the position advantage that was built in the whole sequence
I think over time it will become very obvious this is the only way (I would call it : ganking) light champions can deal with heavys, and that knowledge will be used to develop general aproach of fighting over items that will eventually render them obsolete.

They are already very weak for asserting the map control, and it seems like more and more they will be used for the sole purpose of hiding from the oponent (Cooller's usage of defensive Nyx comes as a prime example of that, Vo0's +back with anarki is another one)

> and in mind of developers higher movement speed and smaller hitbox were suposed to compensate the disadvantage

Yes I agree. It is questionable if the extra stack at the lower speed and larger hitbox is a decent tradeoff.

It would be easy to compare hitbox/speed/stack size and if they are doing what the devs want them to do.

Get hit %s vs different champions.

Compare size + stack differences.You could even compare light vs heavy hit %s needed to win fights.

This is ignoring that sorlag can be destacked and is then in a worse position than the lighter characters because one of its "benefits" is now gone (stack), where as the higher speed and smaller hitbox stays irregardless of what happens. It was mildly annoying when the qcon casters kept going on about "sorlags natural stack" after a fight where both players left with sub 50 health.

How does sorlag have an advantage, they are both low.

Not to imply that that the stack aspect needs to change, but it is something to keep in mind.

Irregardless

Tankier characters will always have an advantage over the light characters as their base stack is easily supportable via bubbles, shards, and shields that lighter characters can't really take advantage of because their base stack is too low to survive most altercations.

There is not only stack inequality but resource inequality.

If a lighter character wants to obtain a kill in duel against a tankier opponent...he simply has to commit at some point.

It plays opposite as intended. It is really the Tanky character that is sniping the light champion and chipping him, which is doing very real damage. A major chip is a 1-shot and a minor chip means the Anarki has to disengage. It plays backwards.

If Sorlag comes out ahead in this instance, he just scoops all the bubbles, shards and hits a shield or two until the powerups come up. He is easily back to full stack within seconds and then some. He didn't have to apply the pressure or take an equal level of risk that the Anarki player has to...even though Anarki can be easily 1-shotted and can't really stack up.

People are only playing Anarki because we love Quake movement and air-control...but he's going to continue to fall out of favor in duel. He's just far too naturally crippled in stack. He can only take an engagement with some reliability if he takes both powerups...but someone like Sorlag with a single armor shield is basically on his stack level with little effort.

Tankier characters will always have an advantage over the light characters as their base stack is easily supportable via bubbles, shards, and shields that lighter characters can't really take advantage of because their base stack is too low to survive most altercations.

well availablitiy of hp/armor pickups is part of map design and can be adjusted to help with balance

Anarki, in this instance, cannot take advantage of that. The Tanks are the ones that can easily refill and always have advantage. Low Risk and game design supports them. They have higher base stack and can actually stack up with just the items available. Lighter characters can't do this. They are all-in all the time, and in an equal skill match-up, probably skating death if they take out a Tank.

this game is supposed to be random! Its less skill but all luck

How is it less skill?!?

Apparently aim is not a skill.

there is no deep game left so no surprise we have randoms winning matches

Giving you so much advantage from major items is not deep by any means but its a monopoly...i would say quake champion is more fair game than quake live....

pick better words if you want to discuss this

rofl

the game is certainly much more random. this is clear. the single elimination didn't help either.

You probably are item focused player that you feel fast paced game feel random....fast game is better than slow game...

I am an aim-heavy + positional player, trying to play the player instead of the items.

If really fast-pace comes to mind, I played QW, CPMA and (CPM) DeFRaG as well, and QC is way more random than any Quake before.

i would say more fast and aggressive style than random....on the other hand quake live is slow and defensive....

QL is only slow and defensive, if you play it like that.

yes and when you play fast and aggressive in a game that suit more slow and defensive style, i won't have any fun....

Because you can't play.

i prefer to play a exciting fast game than a boring slow game...

As I said, if you can't play a fast & aggressive QL game, it's just the lack of know-how / skill, not the game's fault.

why?!? quake 3 was certain is aggressive and fast while quake live is defensive and slow...

Why? Because I can play a fast & aggressive QL whenever I want.



Btw you do realize that QL is basically the same game as Q3, right?

Of course but what i am saying game could suit certain style more...ql encourage inactive extreme defensive style...

Q3 suit more attacking style than ql...earlier version of quake suits more attacking style than later version because of patches...

I apply my style on the game, not vica versa.

If you couldn't play fast and aggressive in QL, you would definitely not be able to in QC since it's way easier to punish.

Yes thats a good point....my point was making game that encourage more attacking and fast style game....whether or not you can play aggressive and fast depends on person's ability...

It also depends on the champ. Speed and hitbox size.
No one used clutch at qcon if i recall.

I think that is because of the clash of playstyles.
Rapha plays a rather slow defensive and item focused tactical style, that proved to be very successful in QL.
Clawz/Raisy and the suchs, rather play a fast intuitive combat focused style, that gets less affected by QC's unpredictable randomness which fucks up long term strategies.

Anyway, enough assumptions, now it is time for the grand finals.
CLAWZ
L
A
W
Z

"gets less affected by QC's unpredictable randomness"

what randomness?

eg telefrags, 1-rail/rocket frags and much much more

I meant randomness due to flaws like ...
0-dmg-directs,
misses that get registered,
hits that don't get registered,
lags and stutters,
aswell as built-in randomness by design that ruins your long term strategy ...
for example Nyx enters ghostwalk out of hearable range and comes out of it right next to you and spams you with directs or simply telefrags you,
enemies respawn right next to you with whatever champions and instantly use their ability,
8 people spamming their ultimates during powerup respawns
etc.,
etc..

There is just too much in QC that makes the outcome of game situations unpredictable.

"0-dmg-directs,
misses that get registered,
hits that don't get registered,
lags and stutters,"

These are problems that have to be fixed, I cannot count these as intrinsic random elements within the game.

"Nyx enters ghostwalk out of hearable range and comes out of it right next to you and spams you with directs or simply telefrags you,"

That is not random. If you are playing vs Nyx you should be aware of her ability and act consecuently. Its like saying that you die because you stepped on sorlag acid and died.

I can count these as intrinsic random elements, until they get fixed. Please stop arguing that right now the game ain't random, because it won't be random in the future.

So when I play vs Nyx, I have to act consequently, so that she can't telefrag me out of nowhere anymore. When I can't see or hear her, how exactly will I make it? Yeah, running into Sorlag's acid at teleporter exits is also random to me, good point.

Anyway, I hope one day you realise what many different people in this thread said, QC is random.

You dont know what random means.

Actually I do, I already wrote it down in my first post in this thread and you even quoted it.
The problem isn't the meaning of randomness, it is rather that you are too obtuse to realise that there are two perspectives:
-player_A that intentionally telefrags
-player_B that gets telefragged out of nowhere

You neglected random champions with abilities respawning next to you and ability-stacking, while you cherrypicked the bugs and Nyx's telefrags for your anti-random-crusade.
Your statements on those were,
the game ain't random because the bugs that currently make it a random shitfest, won't be there in the future (lol, untrue until fixed)
and
when playing Nyx you have to expect the unexpected (lmfao, like saying rolling dice ain't random, because you know all 6 possible results).

There are enough people that agree this game is random, please have fun with them.

Yeah, and you dont know what random means. Also "There are enough people that agree this game is random", lmao.

The very first sentence of the Wikipedia article about randomness:

Randomness is the lack of pattern or predictability in events.

In my very first very first post in this thread I already wrote what I base my definition upon:

QC's unpredictable randomness

and you even quoted it before asking "what randomness?".
It is quite obvious that you ran out of arguments and now try to hide behind vague claims about definitions, please stop whining.

You dont believe me that enough people see the game as more random than previous iterations? Look it up yourself in this thread: CTRL+F "random", I counted c1, InDepther, Freiya, StywoO, aeoL, Anonymous, muxen and myself saying it is more random.

I cannot predict how is going to be the weather for the next week, it must be random then! <- Your logic.

"You dont believe me that enough people see the game as more random than previous iterations? Look it up yourself in this thread: CTRL+F "random", I counted c1, InDepther, Freiya, StywoO, aeoL, Anonymous, muxen and myself saying it is more random."

Facepalm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

The weather is random, it is the stochastic nature of turbulent flows that fucks up any long term simulation of the far future weather situation, that is why it is called weather prognosis and only covers a coarse estimate a few days ahead based on the current status, while nobody can tell what weather there will be in one week, month nor year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbulence
Facepalm mucho?

Face palm mucho #2:
I didn't tell you there are enough people to make my argument become true, I just wanted your retarded ass to talk to them instead of me, hence the "please have fun with them".
So your Wikipedia link makes no sense at all, well, except revealing that although you don't have arguments, you believe those guys all are wrong somehow, which I call "No Argumentum just Believum from one single Fanaticum".

What an obvious troll. My bad.

?

Ah ok, now I understand, you ran out of arguments and ran away.

We can't tell what the weather will be in a month because the computers we have are not powerful enough to produce 100% accurate simulations. We are doing it with an approximation which is something like 99.99% accurate but this .01% error gets extrapolated and becomes too big after a certain amount of time(i.e. a week). In theory we can actually predict the weather a year in advance if we had all the starting parameters and a powerful enough computer.

edit: If weather was random we wouldn't be able to predict it in the short term.

LMFAO.
You are as clever as rawrawraw, instead of just accepting that the weather is random in the long term from a predictability viewpoint, you now start a braindead philosophical debate about the physics background of the weather.
Yo, roulette and lottery ain't random, because there are certain laws of physics that make certain numbers come out of a certain drawing.

We don't have the exact starting parameters, the realtime influence sensoring, exact theoretical equations nor the computing power.

approximation which is something like 99.99% accurate

And now you it is clear that you never were even close to visiting lectures about fluid mechanics nor using fluid simulation software.

Actually fluid mechanics was one of the courses I had in uni, another one was meteorology. Though I don't claim to remember much else or be an authority on the subject. Simulation software I never used though, you are correct. Care to re-educate me? As far as I can tell you're trying to make out weather forecasting be a guessing game because it's not 100% accurate for an indefinite amount of time.

No it wasn't, lectures at Trump university don't count.
But if you really have visited lectures about fluid mechanics before posting such trash, either your professor, you or both are damn useless, sorry but it is the truth.
Meteorology lectures on top of that? Wow, just wow.
Why don't you just click on the wikipedia link I posted above and read the following passages:

Turbulence
...
Most of the terrestrial atmospheric circulation
...
Irregularity
Turbulent flows are always highly irregular. For this reason, turbulence problems are normally treated statistically rather than deterministically. Turbulent flow is chaotic.

And if you didn't notice that funny little box on the right of the article, which calls it an unsolved problem in physics, well, please send me your brilliant 99,99% solution of the 3D-Navier–Stokes equations. I will pay you 100000USD in return with ease:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Prize_Problems

I like you as a cpm-player, but at physics you are damn dogshit.

I am reading those inadequate for this discussion general wikipedia links and nowhere do I see a conclusion of weather being random or unpredictable.

Please professor, elaborate.

Have you ever considered, that you might find those articles inadequate, because you are clueless?

Turbulence
...
Most of the terrestrial atmospheric circulation

= weather!
???

I can also link you articles, that require less background knowledge, as if your pseudo-"courses" in fluid mechanics and meteorology never happened:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather#Forecasting

The chaotic nature of the atmosphere, the massive computational power required to solve the equations that describe the atmosphere, error involved in measuring the initial conditions, and an incomplete understanding of atmospheric processes mean that forecasts become less accurate as the difference in current time and the time for which the forecast is being made (the range of the forecast) increases. The use of ensembles and model consensus helps to narrow the error and pick the most likely outcome.

So where is your 99.99% solution for all this?
Actually I just want that part of your brilliant 99.99% solution, which solves the fluid mechanic's fundamental Navier-Stokes-Problem, in order to get awarded with the Millennium Prize and earn 1,000,000USD, I will give you 100,000USD in return.
I am waiting.

The chaotic nature of the atmosphere, the massive computational power required to solve the equations that describe the atmosphere, error involved in measuring the initial conditions, and an incomplete understanding of atmospheric processes mean that forecasts become less accurate as the difference in current time and the time for which the forecast is being made (the range of the forecast) increases. The use of ensembles and model consensus helps to narrow the error and pick the most likely outcome.

Well I may have been expressing myself worse than needed but how is what you quoted any different from what I originally replied?

We can't tell what the weather will be in a month because the computers we have are not powerful enough to produce 100% accurate simulations. We are doing it with an approximation which is something like 99.99% accurate but this .01% error gets extrapolated and becomes too big after a certain amount of time(i.e. a week). In theory we can actually predict the weather a year in advance if we had all the starting parameters and a powerful enough computer.

The 99.99% I am talking about is the accuracy of the methods we chose to employ in the absence of absolute computational power from a practical standpoint.

how is what you quoted any different from what I originally replied?

The difference is that you are clueless and believe that measurement and computational power are the only bottlenecks, while humankind doesn't even have sufficient theoretical models anywhere near 99.99%.
For that reason, I already linked you the stuff about the Navier-Stokes insufficiency, but since you are incompetent, you preferred to call it "inadequate".

The 99.99% I am talking about is the accuracy of the methods we chose to employ ...

See, there it is again, the lack of clue.
Show me that 99.99% accurate method for turbulent flows.
Why don't you visit the professors of your so called courses and ask them? They might be able to explain it to you or at least downgrade your exam results, in case you passed them, which would be surprising to me.

When did Clawz self-anoint himself the Best LG in Quake? Everyone continues to say that on the stream.

Good question!

He said to Zsx at dinner repeatedly :)

did they shaft together? :D

what else do you expect happening in gaylord resort.

His lg is good but doesn't touch tox's lg in q4. That shit was insane.

Stermy had better LG in Quake 4.

Rapha didn't have a great 2014 Quakeon, either. He lost to 3-0 to Tox because his aim was off and Tox's wasn't. Similarly, his aim at this Quakecon was not the best. He missed a lot of rails.

Rapha's aim was not off...tox just beat him fairly....

In short, quake champions lacks, makes less important or downright negligeable some of the main components of Rapha's game, in which he was head and shoulders above the rest - the rest of the pros that is.
I'm talking about game situations such as thinking ahead in order to outmanuver your opponents around items, by repositioning and manipulating their respawns. It's also a lot harder to make mistakes very costly on your opponent, by holding onto control untill it snowballs into another very good fight and good kill. Another thing he's very good at.
QL had an aboundance of resources you had to manage in different ways, those are way scarcer in QC and accentuate the aiming and mechanical part of the game.
Rapha also had an endless well of experience where he could drink from and it's much less important if the game and maps change.

The lack of situations such as these (i think) are the cause of him using a different sensitivity/accel, from tons of accel to none, which is a big adjustment to do in 1 tournament only.

So all in all now he did not look like your mandatory unbeatable favourite alongside Cypher now, just one of the main contenders.
I bet he'll wipe his tears with the money he won from this quakecon lol

I feel qc duel is more random than past quakes. The pace of the game is constantly reset with the beginning of every round. In ql the better player would have a lot more control over the games pace.

Looks like mini-ow, wait for ability, then engage (close combat with sorlag and glhf with lg dance).

I agree it's way more random in terms of who can win. In QL you can stack up 200 200 health and armour but in this game the tankiest champ can max 200 150 while the squishiest is like 125 75 or something. This mean all it takes is a few shots of anything to earn a kill and since it's a 3 frag limit round this game has put aim as the most important factor to win instead of the more rounded game of QL. You can literally win any fight if you hit your shots.

I feel like the best way to play would to just play it like a high level ca game tbh. I feel all the duellers are still trying to play it like QL when you are probably rewarded for passive play since armour and hp doesn't give as much of an advantage if any (in a lot of scenarios). I saw so many people die because they couldn't stop jumping around the map to "keep control" when setting up traps and listening to sound could be way more effective. I see the meta changing to even controlling the time bubbles being a thing.

The champ's abilities are pretty one dimensional in terms of tactics, they are used either as an extra weapon or a way to run away and that's it.


TLDR: Hit your shots to win.

Edit: Also mega health and the big armour don't even give you the full 100 extra bonus most of the time so its better to rail them and do more damage then what they pick up.

I like your analysis. QC requires a different approach than QL and maybe it's easier for "new" players like Clawz to have this approach because they don't have to unlearn a playing style that all these big names had for years.

When Clawz beats Cooller and says "i dont know, ez", he seems genuinely surprised. Like he's just playing with a simple and straight forward strategy and it works against a supposedly big quake mastermind.

It's just that the major items don't give sh*t as a bonus. They are just not as important as ql. You get both of them and on small champ it's like one rail shot to negate them both, not to mention how fast they tick down. Absurd, one don't even have to time them to win. In contrary beast aimers as clawz, who not only aim insanely good, but also had the guts to go "in your face" style = he found the best way to play qc currently (raisy was good performing in the tourney and in general, because to some extend he plays like clawz - +f in the face, but lacks clawz uber insane aim). Not to mention that this style makes the defending players be surprised and thus dodge bad.

Maybe strenx would have been more successful at QuakeCon if he had played like he used to at the beginning. Relentlessly attacking with LG without thinking too much :D

For sure! :D

The whole game is a random shitfest. What do you expect?

I disagree better players win at quake live....rapha is not a better player as you can see in quake champion but items give a player too much stack so it unfairly gives inferior player a chance to beat better player by picking up major items....quake champion is more fair game because major items give less stack than in quake live so it doesn't give unfair huge advantage only to those who pick up items so inferior players have less chance to beat better players....

God, I thought you are kinda joking earlier, but it seems you really are this clueless.

How can it be more fair than starting with exactly the same stack, having exactly the same stack boundaries, exactly the same movement (physics) style, exactly the same movement speed possibility (and without cap), exactly the same hitboxes (well, it's either keel or tankjr for 99% percent of the players) and exactly the same capabilities (as in no active / passive ability bs)?

Ofc it can't be..

Almost as convenient as an excuse as "it's 2017, bruh".

I mean when in 2017 says picking up armors is not fair you know they add something to their water...

Something...something terrible...

Rapha is just not good enough to win at quake champions....slow and defensive player....

RIP Chess meme :`c

I really liked this tournament. So much better than the same rapha/evil/cypher finals that we've had the past several years.

I liked the finals and how many different players did well this touranment.

This quakecon tournament will go down as one of the all time best IMO.\

Also, I really hate makaveli as and analysis.

All aim no brain teh beste QC evah 111!!

I don't get why any future quakes have to be like quake3/quakelive. Q1, Q2 and Q3 all have some big differences. It was quake 4 that played too much like Quake 3. Quake Champions is a great game. I look forward to more tournaments like this one.

If a game, to be different from Q3, must be allaimnobrain then I'd say Q3 is a perfect game.

But seriously.
Being different is not a good thing in itself.

yet 2 years later, you came back looking for a q3 config..
what happened

I would say it's more fair on both aim and brain......quake live is too unbalanced because it give too much advantage to the one who gets the item thus don't compensate as much on good aim...aim is all fair on each person's ability, if you can hit 30, you hit 30, if you can hit 40, you hit 40 but giving too much stack on items like for example 100 armo, because you get it 0.1 second fast is unfair......

For a 900 elo player.

Go play Instagib if you want to play a game of who can lineup his shot the fastest...

Quake has always and will always be an item centric game. Nerfing control is like saying you want to have idiots rush you off spawn as your grabbing an item in a vulnerable position and get free damage evening the stacks to potentially their advantage. The whole point of control is to have a threshold of error, where if you make a small mistake, or something random and unexpected happens to put you in a bad situation, you have the stack to punish your opponents for taking a careless uncalculated risk. In what world does a game that encourages high risk high reward situations make it more balanced and less random.

okay then you prefer those idiots who camp around items and being so defensive running away all the time, making game frustrating and boring to watch, dispelling spectators...control sounds like monopoly to me...I don't want to play one dimensional game, I want to play the multi dimensional game....

That must be the best bait in a while.

So can you finally share your qlstats page so we can see those dimensions?

bulat will rape all, 60 percenta lg in norma day. *
qc reminds me more of q1 in how fast you die. Still, I feel in q1 picking major items was more impactful in the fights. :)

From Milton stream:
Some spec: Bulat will hit 80 % LG on a sorlag.
Milton: Bulat will hit 80 % LG on anyone.

:)

"While watching the stream - with Rapha losing to Raisy"

He didn't lose to raisy, he lost to dahang!

At that moment he was losing to him!

Round resets and much less emphasis on item control. 9 times of out 10 in QC it seems like if someone isn't hitting their shots they are going to lose now. Wouldn't go so far as to say the player with the best aim is always going to win, but this game certainly favors the better aimer more so than QL did. Rapha has had some sick aim in the past, so here's to hoping he can find his form again in future tournaments.

Also hate this wait for ability, run for 30-40 sec, attack, rinse and repeat :( Rapha probably hates it too

I wouldn't be so sure, since Rapha used to wait even 8 minutes to strike in QL.

Exactly, he's not used to such quick aggression ;)

And how long does it take to armor up to 150 or 200 out of control in QL?

50+50+50 = 50 sec, +another yellow and you're 175, maybe 200 including shards after 1'15, disregarding harassment.

Only possible on 2-YA maps. Only if you can get both!

Not possible against some opponents anyway.

I told you before already and I was right about US.

Ive played European Quali 1v1 and was dropped all the time in Ro32 couldnt reach top16 to play for regionals. Got dropped like that each Quali. Not to mention Vo0, he did qualify but got dropped in Regionals. Then he qualified with second place @ upper runer cup replaced Agent / Cypher, and now he placed second at QWC finals. Why went it so bad? EU is really strong. All players that qualified to top32 were extremely strong. IT was really unfair to drop EU and USA to same basket. EU should have more slots to qualify. If there were players like Agent, Cypher, baksteen, Nitrino, Base, Stermy,.. I doubt Rapha or Dahang could reach more than top16.

For me after getting dropped out of Quali and big dissapointment I have started to play on USA servers and won each player that Qualified to NA Regionals with ping 130, after some prac on US server I signup for US qualifier but I got kicked as I was an EU player and couldnt participate. Since then I was aware how bad US players currently are. Rapha and Dahang didnt have proper 1v1 opponents than playing each other.

IF they want to improve be again one of the best players then team liquid should consider to move their Quake players to Europe

In top16, 12 eu 3 na and 1 au.
The level difference is pretty clear

"We had Cypher playing with all EU, so we could say it for certain. He was at least at Cooller's level "

Quite the opposite. Cypher was almost beaten by a rusty inactive Stermy, and got his ass kicked by Ins in an official match.


Cypher himself admitted that Raisy, Clawz, and many others, even complete no-namers were regularly beating him in preparation for quakecon. He said so in streaming. And people pretended he was joking, just being humble, etc. No, it's the truth.

To add, Cypher's aim is nothing spectacular in quake champions.

If anything, there's a BIG probability Cypher wouldn't have reached the quarter finals.

still cypher has better chance to win quakecon than rapha....

"Quite the opposite. Cypher was almost beaten by a rusty inactive Stermy, and got his ass kicked by Ins in an official match."

mmm, when? in first mounth of quake champions? (just asking)
because i never see cypher playing against stermy on his stream, and i he watched alot of vod or live from him.

"Cypher himself admitted that Raisy, Clawz, and many others, even complete no-namers were regularly beating him in preparation for quakecon. He said so in streaming. And people pretended he was joking, just being humble, etc. No, it's the truth."

Yes, maybe, but at last 125fps cypher beat raisy, like all we said, the game is more random than quake live.
He "trained" a lot last week before quakecon along with cooller, and I think, now I do not remember exactly that he had more wins than cooller

"To add, Cypher's aim is nothing spectacular in quake champions."

Mhe, not true at all, for me his aim is even better than toxic...

"If anything, there's a BIG probability Cypher wouldn't have reached the quarter finals. "

If he participated he would have won very easily, looking in the way the "most famous" have played.
For me it is the only one who can play quake champion better than the others, he can slow down the game or know when go aggressive.

But again, the game is more random than quake live..

It's just one of my thoughts..

"because i never see cypher playing against stermy on his stream, and i he watched alot of vod or live from him."

Seriously, why are you talking then, if you don't even follow tournaments? It's in a torunament than Stermy with 0 qc experience made him sweat blood. And Ins actually beat him, but judging by your account, you don't even know who those two are.

"He "trained" a lot last week before quakecon along with cooller,"

Wow, and in that week he must have surely changed the fact that for the prior months he got beat by pretty much everyone.

"Mhe, not true at all, for me his aim is even better than toxic..."

You said you watch his streams, but you obviously don't, given Cypher's aim isn't even in the top 5 in quake chamnpions. Tox, Raisy, Clawz, Evil, even Strenx and others hit MUCH harder and consistently than Cypher both with light and rail.

It's actually surprising how Cypher's aim DISAPPEARED between quake live and quake champions.

"If he participated he would have won very easily,"

Based on the fact that all the above mentioned players regularly and easily beat him in practice? Or based on the fact that his aim is mediocre? Or based on the fact that even players like Rapha got beat by randos?

Seriously kid, you're very obviously a fanboy spouting opinions and fantasies as facts. Everything you said is made up. Like, it does't even seem you're talking about cypher but about someone else.

Are you belarussian? Is Cypher your cousin? I even wasted too much time replying to someone that seems to be living on mars.

my god, chill men.
and this is just a new accout, i changed nick, used another, the old one forget the password and the email fucked up.
i have watch and played quake since 2003. i stopped playing in 2010 (duel and some tdm), just played some quake live on clan arena randomly and definitive stopped playing more than a years ago, i'm playing some ffa now on quake champions, that's all..

u keep saying stermy beat him, you know on qualifing for quake champion, cypher qualified beating stermy badly? (i know, stermy didn't praccy duel, was focussed on sacrifice) [and just for this, who is less expert on tournament my friend is you...]
and i'm 100% sure, sorry ins, u are good guy, but, if cypher playing against ins, if ins win a match (official one, not praccy random) it's a miracle...

like the kid stuff...hahaah my god.

btw, let's talk about of 125

cup 1, cypher win beting fazz
cup 2, no cypher
cup 3, here lost against killsen then ins (here ins beat him, but was like 3123 mouths ago...)
cup 4, cypher beating avek
cup 5, no cypher
cup 6, no cypher
cup 7, no cypher
cup 8 (the last before quakecon), cypher beat raisy

so, what the hell u talking about? "above mentioned players regularly and easily beat him in practice" ....
i think u confused.

i'm not belarussian and not his cousin, and yes, i like him, not a fanboy, just like how he play quake...

and again, still find this tournament when stermy beating cypher, considering that the only online tournaments are 125 fps, and it seems to me that stermy has never participated.

let's wait another your aggressive answer...

Where do you see aggression in my reply? Seems to me you're projecting, angry because someone pointed out your ridicolous and baseless assumptions. Also you write bad and exactly like a total quake newbire would, so don't be surprised if people mistake you for a 14 years old cypher fanatic that don't even know the pros but just picked Cypher because he looks 15 years old too and because he #420 blaze it.

I recommend to you to check out this guy called Clawz, he won this year's biggest tourney, but most importantly, he looks 13. Dunno if he vape nations tho, that might be a problem.

"Where do you see aggression in my reply?"'

haha, just read again your posts.

"Seems to me you're projecting, angry because someone pointed out your ridicolous and baseless assumptions"

I really have destroyed everything you wrote with the previous answer so...read again, i explained everything, yes, keep repeating yourself that you are right.
you said that stermy destroyed cypher, not true.
you said that raisy, cooller ecc destroyed cypher, not true.
i give fact, you're just mobbing me for no reason.

You continue to write such phrases: "you do not know anything", "you are a kid" and "you can not write", you know absolutely nothing about me.
Typical person who only knows how to offend because he is wrong and can't answer ...

and i'm more fan of toxjq than cypher, he is 32, is ok? or maybe too old, dunno, explain me please.
hahaahahah.
my god.

I can not write becausee I'm not American, I will write badly, but I think something you can understand.

I got it, u are just stupid, my bad if i try to explain u something.

How can you write stuff that wrong when one just has to read to see you're lying?

"you said that stermy destroyed cypher, not true.
you said that raisy, cooller ecc destroyed cypher, not true."

Ok, then, show me where i said those things, kid? You're very obviously mad at me because i pointed out how ridicolous your crush is (and at this point, it might even be with homosexual undertones judging how far you're going in your fantasies and delusions)

"It's in a torunament than Stermy with 0 qc experience made him sweat blood"

...

Congratulations, keep on insulting me because otherwise you would not be able to answer.

i think you have some problem to cypher, what did he do?
even rapha thinks cypher now is better than other top players.

"He's so many steps ahead that all the players you mentioned have been regularly beating him, by his own admission, and he even said he isn't sure he could beat them at a tournament."

you keep say this, when the result speak differently...
of course sometimes he can lose, is a fucking random game, but he is not bad as you want to describe it.

really KID, don't know what is wrong with you...i know, but can't say here...

Is he black jewish ginger vegan?
We must know!

Lmao, you really got me, i must admit. I was truly believing you were just a 15 years old retarded fanboy. 5/7, excellent trolling, muxen. Down to the broken english.

ok, i'm bored.
useless to answer.

I've seen the other answers you give, you're just problematic ..

I also think if cypher was present there he would have won Qcon easy. I even think he could have won Clawz 3:0, 3:0 or maybe 3:1. Cypher is 1 step ahead of rest of pro gamers in QC.

He's so many steps ahead that all the players you mentioned have been regularly beating him, by his own admission, and he even said he isn't sure he could beat them at a tournament.

He literally has shown nothing better than the players attending quakecon, and actually he looks in worse shape than many of those.

But yeah, i guess thw worse he looks, the stronger he might be, for some top ten anime reasons

re: on Cooller vs Rapha game on dm6:

Rapha played QL, Cooller played QC!

Rapha tried to play his old dm6 game and dominate, while cooller collected *ALL* of the hourglasses.
While rapha had 3 ults, cooller collected 4-5.

That gave him enough edge to win, in what would be a much more tighter game.


Also, congratz to Cooller, Rapha had the opportunity to test and try the game long before others, while Cooller started when game entered the closed beta and NDA was lifted.

I watched his first 2-3 days of game, from installing, playing non-stop vs Nitrino, losing 90% of games. Was quite fun. Somehow I feel justice won.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views...ristianity

no tracer fap, sorry

Damn, I also fapped to Tracer. And I really enjoyed it!

Tracer is cute...

Is Day[9] going out with Zoe? Poor 2gd

That's a really old photo.
Nowadays she hangs out only with some OverHype fegets trying her best to not get old and lonely without one and only Yames...

the biggest problem is that health was so low for each player in fights, and the number of frags per round is so low, that they would often resort to running away after an exchange instead of trying for the kill, so that they wouldn't go down one frag and end up giving up a round.

what the winning players did was deal enough damage to get a frag without letting their opponents get away to restock after every fight.

this new quake style is very touch and go. it's all about running away from each other to gather resources, then clashing. it's not like the older quakes, where the leader can control items and, therefore, the entire dynamic of the game, with the opponent getting opportunities by spending minutes collecting YAs and then trying to steal a mega or RA and in the process get a frag to stop the leader's momentum.

the players can also upset the system dynamics of previous quakes by using champions.

a lot of people seem to be saying that qc isn't a +back game, but from what i saw, it's actually much more +back than QL, and also a lot more standing still and creeping around.

rapha lost because he's still trying to play quake live.

I don't believe Rapha will be the same player he was in Quake Live, he of course has all the time to prove me wrong, but until then I am confident that he will be struggling to take tittles and just top places.

The game has changed to a more combat oriented style, no longer raw positioning, methodical control where you starve out your opponent of stack, the excellent defensive play for which Rapha is known for just won't apply as it used to. It's better to leave that Mega for the opponent than it ever was. Players who previously struggled with timing and had the tendency to play out of control, thrive.

Now it's time for the fast and precise, the innovative and creative.

innovative and creative

77777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777

It's kind of meant more for ability, champion usage and trends, things like that, the meta is going to be a changing thing.

Anyway, I rather have 77777777777777777777777 than another 2 minutes of +back stacking up yellow armors.

Dude... Now you have constant +back waiting for abillities to cooldown and not get railed in the process.

Yeah, except the final was anything but that. Explain yourself

Ye, it went from let's hide 24/7 to let's hide 24/7 with breaks for few seconds of 777777 7777777777 7 7 77777777777777 7 777777777777777 77 7 7777777777777777 7 7 777777777777777777777777777 7 7 777777777777 7 77777777777777777777 7 7 777777777777777 7 7 777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777

Every round, same boring shit.

How does that vague description of events differs from how Quake Live was played in any way?

Not only that, but abilities have the least effect of slowing down the game. It's just another layer that can make or break a stalemate, it works both ways. The abilities are just on a 20-40 second cooldown, if you have the potential for a fight after that amount of time from both players, then it's short sighted to say that abilities have anything to do with slowing down the game as much as you say.

Time To Kill, TTK window is a hell of a shorter than it was before (stronger weapons, abilities, lower stacks etc.). Players now can repeatedly fall back on resources that respawn very fast, the game creates less scenarios where you don't have something to fall back upon (let's not forget about blood pools). The maps are larger, wider, with more ways where, how to fall back (DM6 pillar teleport, ZTN plasma room extra stairway/rail jump-pad). Players are less inclined to fight over pickups, they are not worth that much anymore. Or how about the 3 limited lives which dictates the players to conserve them at all costs?

Players are forced to play very tight and abilities have very little to do with that.

Maybe it would be okay if you could die more than 3 times...
IMO it's a really shitty combination.
Now the best you can get is a lot of really small encounters where everyone is afraid of getting shat on by rail or one rakieta.
Just doesn't feel quakey.

The game is for sure not without its flaws. I agree, currently it's less than perfect. There is no consensus on what exactly needs to be different and how.

The game has changed to a more combat oriented style, no longer raw positioning, methodical control where you starve out your opponent of stack, the excellent defensive play for which Rapha is known for just won't apply as it used to. It's better to leave that Mega for the opponent than it ever was. Players who previously struggled with timing and had the tendency to play out of control, thrive.

Now it's time for the fast and precise, the innovative and creative.

It's funny that you could say all of that when comparing cpm to vql as well.

Time to start playing QuakeWorld.

why are you even here?

to keep you informed

Good riddance I say. Fuck this guy and fuck any other +back sloth for ruining the game.

And fuck Nyx. Ghost walk is the most un-quake ability I can think of

It would be really fun if Nyx's ability would make her invisible but not invincible. It could make for a lot of great reads and spectacular kills. She would still be one of the strong characters imo.

Sounds reasonable. Also easy to implement and test. Now is as good as any time to try new things. I mean it's clearly a service now, so why let it stagnate

Or at least let her have 3 seconds where she can't shoot when she leaves invis?

That could work also but think about all the crazy prediction shots you could pull on an invisible Nyx!

He'll be back and he'll beat clawz if he's serious (which I still believe he is, especially for this game).

We shall see.

https://twitter.com/liquidrapha/status/902642537168609280

Rapha: If anyone orgs would like to discuss picking me up without fear of poaching you now can. Restricted free agent.

Repeat of response I made above, but I think it's fitting for the general discussion:

You're only as good as your competition. EU scene is miles better than NA in regard to activity and talent pool. More active players, more chances for talent. It's simple really. In order for NA to do better in future events, we need more players, and fierce competition among NA competitors. (I heard rumors of NA teams/players freezing out other NA teams/players in practice. TISK TISK... meanwhile EU was competing like rabid jackals!)

That's just the way it works gents. NA needs to encourage more activity, weekly cups, etc... Drive that competition. EU scene is excellent at this, and it shows in the deep pool of talent they had in their qualifiers.

now you know your purpose

https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content...8__700.jpg

NA has been ignoring and straight up refusing to play up-and-coming talent for years, sucks to suck when your cliquefeast shits the bed.

he lost cuz he didn't shave.
can't scraggle and win.

beautiful and totaly wrong theory, as rapha has been dominating QL while the EU scene was 10x more active and dahang never want to train with rapha in QL.

tox play 1400 elo noobs in duel to train for competitons its well known.

I tell u why rapha lost, he became RAFAT.

The way Rapha jumped on the supersonic Quake Champions train from the stinkning-sinking ship of Overwatch should tell what a smart decision maker he really is.

This thread shows that the people did really try to like QC. Until they realized... that it is all just random and boring.

so don't be surprised if people mistake you for a 14 years old cypher fanatic that don't even know the pros but just picked Cypher because he looks 15 years old too and because he #420 blaze it.

Rapha's aim can't keep up with the fresh blood and aim is more important in this game. Also he favours positioning when he should be focusing more on new champion meta.