Yes!

No?

This can also work in reverse. Blinded by the nice brothel colors of QC ui and bubbleton effects you played in a frenzy without even realizing what the hell you were doing.

okay constructive opinion

1. the noisy graphics style does not work well for arcade fps. A clean graphics style like OW would have fared better.

2. need better footstep sounds / effects

3. need better enemy model visibility (especially due to noisy surrounding graphics)

4. rockets are laggy

Are there changes in NDA or we just don't give a doo doo about it?

What is noisy? Just have a way to disable particles and effects and the like. :D

It's ultimately moving things that cause distraction. The rest is camouflage, which can be fixed with model brightness and outlines. Also, a clean HUD is needed not to obscure the view.

OW's look is entirely unappealing and not really compatible with the Quake ethos. And we already have Reflex for the Reflex look.

The textures and maps are overly detailed yet muddy at the same time, while the models do not pop (except Sorlag but for the wrong reason of it being so out of place). OW has much more visibility than QC, and at the same time QC is actually ugly in comparison to current games.

The solution is not only toning down the effects but everything in the game is noisy, so for visibility's sake radical changes would have to be made. I don't think they will be made because the whole game would have to be remade (whole new texture sets for example); that or allowing picmip+brightskins which is not going to happen. Guess OW has spoiled us in terms of now having visibility without resorting to commands that totally modify the game's looks.

About the ethos, I think if you compare games side by side QC looks more like an Unreal game than like a Quake game. QC has characters/models of substantially different sizes (total opposite from previous Quakes), the weapons look like they belong in a UT game, the best map of the game (Ruins of agsgsgsgshs. The green one) looks like it was copied from UT2K4, the sounds themselves are noisy (and the voices so annoying), and it even doesn't feel as responsive as QL for example but more floaty like UT's. They either sold out to the devil (thinking that's what modern means) or the external company making the game (Saber) is not able to provide content that's on par with what id software did on Doom 4, stylistically and polish wise.

I think when people are comparing QC with OW they mean to say they appreciate the visibility and overall polish but not necessarily the style. They are not saying that QC should have a cartoony look but a clear look. Personally I'm more worried about the polish of the game, because right now the whole presentation is very much subpar and improving that would require to scrap a lot of stuff, like re-doing the voices of several characters which is likely to not happen.

I can't really comment on QC's ethos. I've only seen videos. The art style is definitely different from that of previous Quakes. In terms of looks, I would have liked something more like Quake 1. :D

Lots of people are noticing similarities with UT.

I definitely agree we need good visibility in a Quake game, but please, not the OW aesthetic. OW also suffers from far too many animated effects; a lot more than I've seen in videos of QC.

Do you think that without totally recreating assets, it would be possible to fix the visibility with some combination of cleaning up the HUD, removing animated effects that are not absolutely necessary, ensuring no shadows or map lighting apply to models so they are always at their brightest, and some kind of outline of configurable width and colour drawn around models?

I imagine there is a limit to how noisy something can really be if it consists only of static elements and outlined player models.

"it even doesn't feel as responsive as QL for example but more floaty like UT's"

That is quite concerning but hopefully fixable.

Ye, more or less.


tl; dr: QC is the shittiest Quake ever, by very far. Wouldn't even call it that.

But the best UT I ever played. )

On point.

Just what it'd need more similarities to OW that'd be smart.

It does a good job finding middleground in visibility and fun tbh. QC looks like grey in grey.

So every game now needs to look like a cartoon?

There are other solutions to the visibility problem that can preserve some semblance of maturity in the visual style of the game. OW is so damn colourful.

The kindergarten theme does not suit Quake.

I didn't say anything like that and now I plussed you by accident.

Right now it seems to look like a grey blob and they need a solution for this.

Doesn't look like a grey blob to me. From what I've seen it has a varying color pallet. I think it's merely the trailers trying to capture a feeling so they are emphasizing certain colors.

This gameplay does have a dark theme but the gameplay is easy to understand and see.



Looks like they brought classic quake (1 and 2) into the modern world. That feeling of the world you got from Quake was one thing that made it great.

It's still beta so I'm sure they'll make further improvements but I think they wanted to capture the mood of quake first and foremost.

Thanks for the plus, bro. I love you too. <3

I just grow tired of comparisons to OW is all.

They do need a solution (from what I've heard; I have no beta key), and the cartoon method is a valid solution. I see Diabotical is kinda using it too. That's fine. I just don't think it needs to be cartoon every time, especially not for Quake.

If the atmosphere of Quake is to be thrown out the window, may as well just use picmip 16 and brightskins and be done with it. :D

Currently it does not have any of those visibility solutions plus throw in the terrible sound engine they have with that and you got basically no surrounding awareness. This might be the most important thing to fix atm. Weapon balance can be tweaked anytime, this stuff is more ingrained. On top of that your eye is dealing with more visual effects like dire orb or plasma trail or bull-rush to yo face.

Imagine the visual chaos of OW but without the clean cut graphics style they got then you get an idea of the problem. There are decent improvement suggestions in closed beta forums from many people, its only up to id to implement.

Yep, it needs a solution. I'd just prefer it not to be the OW or Reflex solution. Thanks. :D

I've experienced it and it's shit.

there many things that could have done them better and hopefully they will do, but the one thing that is a deal breaker is the duel with that weird format

duel was the most spectator friendly, awesome to watch esport game ever as it was. It’s the game mode that ppl from other games watched and liked. The game mode that had tourneys in prestigious events while it had a tiny player base, compared to other games. But it was there, because it was so much fun and easy to watch. Many ppl, including me, have watched more hours of duel tourneys than football, Olympics or anything else. Why change the one thing where quake pawned all competition…

hope they think twice, before they proceed to anything that radical and unsound

Haha the comments to this thread just prove my original statement.

Why so? I see people giving constructive feedback. And i'm sure by now pretty much everyone here has played the game.

Rockets need a boost. Make them faster and less laggy

After Reflex, QC rockets feel devastating. Dunno though is it good or bad.

Basic QL mentality: decrease weapon damage to kingdom come!!! then complain about low scores in duels like rapha vs evil at qcon: this is the result of your weapons tuning, boys!* RG effectiveness was lowered once in q3 from q2 by increasing player's health; on top of that, QL reduced RG damage to 80; on top of that, they even reduced hitbox size and shape, just to be sure.

*(because if they'd speed up rockets like this person suggest then damage must be reduced to compensate)

In q2, you had tiered armour and other weapons that were more powerful to maintain balance, like the chaingun, SSG, and RL.

A 100 damage rail in a game where everything is balanced like in q3 is OP. CPMA nerfed it to 80 long before QL.

Also people's accuracies improved a lot with rail since 1999.

Hitting rails is not the epitome of skill; Joe Average can hit 40% with it, and getting 40% of your shots do 100 damage is excessive. Increasing its damage does nothing to prevent a +back game; it'd probably encourage it. Better to have low scores than everyone playing pew pew from across the map.

Now, maybe you can have your 100 rail if you increase the damage of every other weapon by 25%. That would reduce TTK significantly, and a lot of people would not enjoy that.

"Also people's accuracies improved a lot with rail since 1999"
Doesn't matter. As I already explained, the less damage weapons do, the more chance for the consistent aimer (aka veterans).

"Hitting rails is not the epitome of skill"
what are you even talking about? are you replying to yourself?

"getting 40% of your shots do 100 damage is excessive"
feeling threaten by beginners? LOL. if the opposite how you want would work than only a handful of players would make frags while the rest will just die die die because veteran players have better positioning better dodge higher speed and greater aim. the more shots you need to kill your enemy the more all this things will pile up against beginners.

"Better to have low scores than everyone playing pew pew from across the map"
You will not only have low scores, but the sense of immortality given to weaker players. Good luck with these settings playing with yourself while congratulating yourself for your consistent veteran aim.

It's a skill-based game, right?

The better player SHOULD win.

Rail isn't hard to hit. Unless you're gonna buff all the other weapons too, 80 damage is sufficient reward for landing it, especially in a game where everyone has less health.

I'd still beat the beginner unless he was legitimately better than me.
He'd just get more lucky kills on me. I'd get those on him too.

Matchmaking is supposed to separate the veterans from everyone else anyway.

Dunno why you're going on about my aim. It's average. I'm not trying to engineer a game that gives me the best chance of winning.

"Railgun" is even in your name, so I shouldn't be surprised you want it to be the most powerful weapon.

"The better player SHOULD win"
And the better player still wins but with higher damage the weaker player would not be absolutely crushed.

"in a game where everyone has less health"
In QC not everyone has less health.

"I'd still beat the beginner unless he was legitimately better than me.
He'd just get more lucky kills on me"
Bingo! And this is all about. If he won't get a few shots here and there he will leave. And there you'll have again the same 20 players alone on all those servers. (tbh I doubt that QC would be a massive success anyway but mostly because bad art design decisions + some strange gameplay mechanics, weapons damage not included yet!)

"Dunno why you're going on about my aim. It's average. I'm not trying to engineer a game that gives me the best chance of winning"
This was never about you in the first place, but about the general idea of lowering weapons damage.

"Matchmaking is supposed to separate the veterans from everyone else anyway"
Excepting that it won't work, people! We had the same discussions and hopes in QL. Well, not me, because I think old school here that I lied better QL when there was no ranking shit that's how I got better faster. Like it or not, matchmaking won't value much, especially if we think about all those 20 fake accounts made by sore veteran losers who would just like to stomp on beginners or egomaniac pros who would not put their reputation in danger and just play with their official nick when they got in shape.

""Railgun" is even in your name, so I shouldn't be surprised you want it to be the most powerful weapon"
I just told you the reasons. I want different weapons be used for different strategic situations so I salute when I see drastic differences in terms of weapon usage but I also realize that completely crushing newer gamers through consistent aim won't be good. Your statement that I want RG to be the strongest is wrong, I admit that I aim between 40 and 60% in ffa (ffa is easy anyway) but I argued against guys wanting the railgun delay to be removed. If I'd want the RG to be the strongest I would defend that option, wouldn't I? Yet I vehemently oppose the idea to turn QC into a cmpa clone and I dislike the downgrade of the tactical element of the game through delay removal. RG should not be used at close range without risk. I'd prefer increasing the RG delay even more to the idea of decreasing the damage.

A loss is a loss, right?

Adding some more randomness to it by giving people the ability to hit the equivalent of a direct rocket from the other side of the map isn't making this game more fun to play.

200/200 is not possible in QC, unlike every other Quake game, so yes, they have less health.

If you're worried about keeping new players, QC has already done more than enough to make this game "noob friendly".

And again, MM is supposed to separate the skill levels.
If it doesn't work as you say, then dead game regardless of how much you exclusively buff rail.

What's the point of these delays anyway? I'm sure they are not really features and just a result of dodgy netcode and will vary depending on ping, etc. The railgun delay may even be an illusion from the animation used and nothing to do with the hit detection. It's supposed to be a hitscan weapon, no?

Anyway, I only see you wanting rail more powerful, never rockets or LG or anything.

By your reply I suppose that you completely lost my point.
I also suggest they keep LG as powerful as it is and strongly oppose nerfing down the LG or the RL.

No, they need to buff those weapons if they are going to buff RG. :P

FFA is easy?


)

and lol at the cmpa example. go play cmpa then bc thanks to its success there are so many players in cmpa!!! end of story

An important fact to remember is that CPMA was played by 5 people whilst OSP was played by hundred thousands without the nerfed Railgun.

You had to lead shots in OSP.