Welcome to first person shooters.

It has been proven time and time again that aim while playing a major role in duel, is not the deciding factor on who wins and who loses.

Having a better position virtually makes you the "better aimer", so your game may not be as tactical as you think it is.

Having good aim DOES rightfully improve your chances to win a fight, erase some mistake you did or coming on top from unfavourable position, however, it does not grant you instawin like you try to portray it.

On the other hand, why would you want people with bad aim to win a duel? It's a skill that needs to be practised a lot, just like timing and positioning.

thanks professor. don´t ragequit on me ever again

what is this faggotry alt accounts on esr??

Reach level H4x0r and open new account achievement!

i just need to level up another char

someone nuke, burn, ban, shoot his ass :D

Don't you mean /troll ? ;)

Raw aim only goes so far - strategy, tactics, knowledge, goes a long way to improving how often you hit, and how many opportunities you take advantage of in order to hit.

Have you noticed in pro tourneys, they put their xhair in a specific place and wait? Its more timing and knowledge than raw aim.

Edit: Also its relatively easy to get decent raw aim, you just need a good setup, and work through the weaps and learn them one by one, theres tons of good advice out there which if you follow will improve your aim a lot. I say raw aim is relatively easy because it applies to all the situations in quake, and its easy to give advice on them, but learning a map can be really hard and there are a lot of them to learn.

its all about +back

unfortunate and true ; /

maybe rewatch rapha vs cypher dm13 at DHS 2012. ;)

Massive rocket splash radius is obvious in every game. be fast with +back RL and inflict 300 chernobyls a game so that your opponent can't move around the map. DM13 is already pretty small. What fun.

300 chernobyls lmao

you can't +back against a heavy aim opponent or if you have bad aiming skills

it's all about the aim - true

true to an extent - you can't win if you can't get the xhair in the general location of the opponent, but if you can do that, you can win just fine with +back rocket splash.

ye sure diabz, and additionally you'd own them all if you can be arsed to +b, but you just can't that's why you're so awesome, right?

I've heard similar stories from weird

lol :)

agree +1

I disagree. Rapha doesn't have the best weapon stats, he's not even in my top ten list, but he has dominated for years. Position, awareness and timing are more important than pure aim, in my opinion.

not if u do 50 lg, 80 rail ^^

Actually Rapha has beastly aim tbh. He's always had a pretty good rail and LG imo but it's the weapon choices and dodging that was his greatest asset in combat situations I think (and doing free damage when he could).

It's good no doubt, but not among the best in my opinion. His tactics and control are great, but how he would fare against strenx, cypher or stermy on Eye to Eye? I think in this scenario he would do poorly because it's more of an aim contest with no substance.

Well these days he'd probably do pretty good but yeah, agreed.

He really doesn't. In terms of raw aim skill he's probably worse than most if not all of the current top players.

Where he does excel, though, is in making sure that raw aim skill just isn't a factor, whether it be through superior dodging, positioning or making sure he has the superior stack when it comes to those one on one fights. - I mean how often is it that you see Rapha start an LG fight with even stacks?

hes just got his binds layout like this:

bind w +back
bind a +back
bind s +back
bind d +back

not to say hes a bad player, but i wish beeing agressive would be more rewarding, i dont like slow fps games :/

I glanced at his QuakeCon config and he had mouse1 "+back" and mouse2 "+left". Shit is crazy.

Don't mistake cautios, tactical play with +back. It is also a huge skill to leave an escape route open in case the battle doesn't go in your favor. So that's what you see with rapha, not simple +back that would get him nowhere.

I know. Doesnt change the fact that it comes across as +back though. My personal preference is more cypher-flying-through-doorways-attacking over 'tactical' play where a guy backs off into another room, and another and so forth. I know im exaggerating a bit but u get what i mean.

think that´s great game , woud have loved to see cypher making it into overtime in the last 15 seconds !

I could take it a step further; I think it would be bad for esports if there were more players like Rapha. For the sport to stay, i'd say there should be more drama, more extremes, more personality in each players playstyle; Not so much of the balanced but extremely effective 'flat' gameplay.

That's what dis&vor discussed yesterday on stream.

It's better to have players that you don't like than players with no character - If you like someone, you'll cheer for him, if you don't like someone, you'll cheer for the person playing vs him.

Having someone that you don't really like or not like makes the game bland and without soul.

That's why we need more interviews.

thats a better wording for it i suppose :)

tsk. What's wrong with Rapha personality? That guys has steel balls, but still he doesn't act like a total moron, wich is the usual quakers behavior;
Maybe THATS the problem: Rapha is too good, too sporty, too fair to be accepted by the quakers without massive envy.

Envy? lol. I was talking more about playstyle, not Rapha as a person. Every other player has more peaks of crazy stuff, rapha just looks so solid and refined, but not necessarily in a good way. Again, hes a great player but not for spectating.

k

I get the sense that his attacks are based off of details and very specific bits of information, and sometimes he might have goals as well. I think he understands the gameflow well enough to win based off of situational awareness and not sheer aim and luck. He sort of plays the game like a Dota player, or something of a chess player. Where most of us play it like it is. You have items, and a few situations that occur, but then the rest is just force.

Agent is the ideal spectating favorite. His sens looks ridiculous, he plays at 120 fov, he moves fast. He's russian ffs.
He's abusive, good, fast and russian.
The ultimate people's champion.
I want Agentjkezoor back in faceit!
FREEAGENT
R
E
E
A
G
E
N
T

I think the ideal would be Cypher, toxINATOR and k1llsen, when he rapes.

He's not banned from competing in faceit.

i actually find smarts to be far more fascinating than aggressive playstyle because I see so many holes with aggressive. sure, if you're one of those top players, you can win with aggressive attacking. however, if you're still coming into quake and expecting any of that to work for you, you're beating a dead horse. i've exceeded my need to aim well by using tricks to get damage instead of going for aim battles. i've developed almost all of my aim based on listening for my opponent to move and also punishing escape options and positional mistakes. of course, to actually keep up with people who aim well, I still have to try harder to hit those shits. it is just much easier and more consistent to wait for the opponent to drop his guard.

Go watch CPMA or something. Stupid aggressive decisions shouldn't be rewarded in a game like Quake.

Being aggressive is already rewarding when done in certain situations, just as running from fights is.

Cept that (imo) its leaning towards running away beeing more rewarding than beeing agressive. And if by CPMA u mean promode, why would anyone watch that, thats just for playing.

beastly combat skills anyway

if only

If that was so I would be a much better dueler.

the moment you get rid of 1 ESRtroll 2 new ones rise from the muddy grounds of mordor

Well, the "Q" symbol has its similarities with a ring.

I would argue for the opposite but you're right in some cases:





But aimbot isn't the same as aim.

That is the worst possible example you could come up with because even tho tox hit some incredible shit av3k kinda let him come back. Just watch the scene at rg (havent watched it, I just still remember it). Av3k would never ever go down there in a real match.

I rewatched it and thought the same. Good spectacle anyway.

Conclusion: You're not just a bad aimer, you additionally have no idea about the meta game, sorry to dissapoint you.

generally correct, but you should specify: *unless the worst aimer is a lot greater in other aspects, and with a lot i mean a lot . *

say whatever u all want, but that's actually true

Registered: 2 Nov 2012

You say aim yet a lot of the frags during a duel are because of splash damage

if that was true then He4rTL3sS would be a decent dueler

4 weeks of a solid practice just to get used to maps,item-cycling stuff etc. and he would be around 2100 elo skill

no, it took him years to learn thunderstruck without any items and only 1 weapon

haha made me laugh. thank you sir:)

yhm, if so, then maybe... let's say CA players aren't good example in this case
you know
just a little bit of "brain game" experience is needed too

Aiming in duel is way different than ca, particularly 1v1 on thunderstruck. If he has no clue about duel then heartless would have mediocre to bad aim, getting outdamaged by 1500s.

so wrong.

any match example using the current map pool (no dm17, almost lost or dm6)

http://www.foopics.com/showfull/9c03498ac7aa9ec790f09cf6c2d88f87

thunderstruck rofl

Cool, you beat spart1e on a small open map with limited tactics available. I've beaten dahang and fatal1ty in CA, but it doesn't mean anything. They should go ahead and add BFG to CA and be done with it.

fatal1ty is easy tbh. He's kind of like rapha, only less smart.

dahang, he must be quite hard to beat at CA, his aim seems good.

who was the most difficult to beat between these two ? I guess dahang ?

also, could you provide a screenshot, to prove that you beat them ? :D

Based on his history I think fat would take you in Duel. Dahang is much better than him today. I don't think Johnathan takes Quake serious at all anymore.

http://www.qlranks.com/duel/player/cOOw

Wrong

I think it's pathetic guys like him hide behind ridiculous gametypes only because they can't stand losing. This is exactly the kind of attitude leading to a dead end.

Consider this: to get better you absolutely NEED to lose. Else you won't get any serios lesson besides aim practice. Some people just cannot grasp this simple concept, to become great you have to lose a lot first.

well, when i was playing dm6 only back in the day, i did beat people like a1r_r41d, dem0n and silencep. Also beat some oldschool french duelers. Actually i was pretty decent at duel...

You've forgotten the one above all.

The smartest player in Quake HISTORY.

SHANE FUCKING HENDRIXSON.



I don't like his style, his fights can be sloppy, his aim can be ugly, but the man gets the job done.

Cypher / k1llsen /strenx/ toxjq - the greatest aimers in Quake, and he
makes them look like fucking children with his mind and strategic game.


THIS IS RAPHA, A LIVING LEGEND.

nuff said

I wouldn't put Cypher in that list he's pretty level with Rapha in head to heads.

Both of them are fantastic players with almost equal success yet with completely different styles. Rapha, to me at least, is the ultimate method player, he is a clinical tactician. Cypher is the artist or flair player always able to surprise in a game in which everyone thinks they've seen it all before. These differences are what make matches between them so great to watch: can Rapha deliver the perfect tactical game against the ultimately unpredicatble damage dealer that is Cypher? Sometimes he can, sometimes he can't.

That's not to say Cypher isn't an excellent tactician, but he seems to enjoy taking risks because he has the confidence he can turn the game around if things don't work out. And Rapha has got great aim when it matters. Not the only example, but the best illustraition is that win against Strenx on Toxicity at one of the DHs. 90% rail and Strenx whining :D

Both great players, both seem like pretty nice guys without overinflated egos.

The most important thing is positioning and dodging. If somebody comes at you with 200 200 and you outposition him you can take him down easily. So you have cypher with sick positioning and the best raw aim and dodging(my opinion).
When he's outpositioned he does miracles with raw aim, when he's positioned well u can have 400 400, won't help.

Not true, when I dueled a lot I would completely aim rape whoever and still lose to quite a few people. Granted I never lost to anyone who didn't also have solid aim, but I remember games I would have 10-15% higher lg and 30% higher rail, deal more damage, and still lose by a 5-10 frag margin

Just because you have higher acc doesnt neccessarily mean you hit better in duel. People always neglect spam and forget about rl aim (yeye its only spam I got it). And if you completly aimraped him and still lost than well ...

I realize that, I played at a high level in duel for a couple years when I was active. Maybe I shouldn't say completely aim rape, because no one with bad aim could come close to beating me...but I've lost quite a few games to players who I clearly out aim but have just dueled so much more than me because I've chosen to play team modes more than anything over the years

Wrong. Rapha dominated the game for years now.
Who would win a Thunderstuck 1v1 match, Rapha or strenx? Rapha or tox?

qed

someone really should do a sum up of all QL lans so far. I think cypher has more titles than rapha.

Maybe, but I think rapha would probably win if you only counted tournaments they both attended

The "QL champion" is the one that wins the most international lans no matter if a certain person attended or not. It's not cypher's fault rapha (correctly) considers thanksgiving being more important than attending dreamhack.

Ok, if you want to define it that way. If you want to speculate on who the stronger player is though I think you need to take it into account

The stronkest player is cooller.

Of course. My apologies.

Thank god for Americans, where they thank god 1 day a year for the harvest but blow each others brains out the other 364 thanks to the gun laws ( how very christian)

most titles=best player - not true
depends what titles (rapha has the 2 IEMs) and depends on the head to heads
cypher has 3 quakecons in ql and rapha 2 iirc
dremhacks are clearly in favor of cypher (altho one should not be so sure about rapha getting raped every time by cypher in finals or at smaller tournaments, like ugc)

i'm not saying rapha is the best or that cypher isnt the best. personally i think cypher is the best ql dueler and 1v1 fighter (meaning best fighting skills and battle dynamics, combined with great overall aim). just saying what i already said in the first line of this post

PS "personally i think cypher is the best ql dueler"

uhm, scratch that :D

Hax http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/summary/secretariat

(facepalm)

nice try

There's no such a thing as a "world title" or "smaller international lan" in QL, maybe with the sole exception of the esl grand finals.
This is something other games struggle with (lots of international events), but here top players attend all (5) of them, prize money is similar, there are no qualifier lans and overall there's not a general consensus of lets say quakecon being more important than the rest (actually we all know that event is a joke).

It is useful naming someone the "quake champion", like rapha has been called since the beginning of QL, and keeping score makes it more entertaining, as it builds hype if rapha and cypher are close to each other in lan wins. It is more fair to each player accomplishments too since it prevents having another fatality (by q3 wins he is not even top5),

edit: and by "international" I mean the obvious sense of the word. Adroits was (everyone attended), australian lan isn't (the one with the intel laptop thing). Also the cgs fatality invitational (him and stermy only playing duel on dm17, in the US) is obviously not a "world title".
This year those are dh:s, the ctf lan at netherlands, quakecon, adroits, dh:w.

rapha and dahang didn't attend.

Only tournaments with all top 8 players.

cooller
rapha
strenx
av3k
cypher
k1llsen
dahang
spart1e


Considering recent results for a ql champion is pointless, since most pro players are inactive and 1 of them retired.

so if rapha or cypher don't attend it doesn't count? rofl

qed? and what exactly were u trying to prove there?

"rapha dominated the game"- true (wont go into details, who has more titles in ql, but this is generally true or plausible at least)=aim IS NOT the only factor or not even the most important

"Who would win a Thunderstuck 1v1 match, Rapha or strenx? Rapha or tox?" - strenx and tox would win obviously=aim IS the most important factor

so what's your point?

It means to win in the relevant gamemode (duel) aim is not everything.

lol man

it's all about the tactical aspect of the game and also dodging, AND strategy.

but you're right to some extent. why ?

because from my own experience, when i used to duel at dm6 only, i was actually quite good mainly because of my aim and dodges.

i did beat people like silencep, a1r_r41d, dem0n and reload, mainly because of my positionning, aim and dodges.

but after all, it's all a matter of playstyle, some people are better at strategy, others at aiming, others at dodging, and some people are good tacticians.

you played dm6?

yes dm6 only :>

the duel equivalent of thunderstruck rofl

how about playing maps that are actually played in tournaments

even with 0 practice i would beat you at duel.

let's do a ztn someday, you'll be surprised by my skill.

callvote map verticalvengeance

how about playing maps that are actually played in tournaments

no dm6 then

bind w +back

I'll put $10 in the pot for the winner of He4rTL3sS vs somebody in duel. Who wants $10?

Edit: A best of 3 so map choices are fair*.

*No Thunderstruck allowed.

Put in more money and I will challenge him!

$11?
$12 if you play shadowmaster155 or GODOFWARsanchez in quake4?

Spart1e I'll put $20, but maybe some others can pitch in for the show?

i'll put in additional 10$ if somebody streams it so i can post the vods to every He4rTL3sS' troll post afterwards.

It's like you offer money for the school retard to be beaten up by a trained mma fighter, where's the fun in that.

It has to be megaman3 or someone else of normal skill. Only dm6 to even out map advantage. Let's do this!

insulting retards? behave..pls.

if I had good ping there I'd do it. Ins[69swag] could too.

What heartless said was he can win duels with his aim. Well then play using the official pool, which does not have thunderstruck (rofl) nor dm6 (could be on the pool for entertainment value on this case), and bo3.

My bad.. Only now i remembered that thunderstruck came way after dm6-logical transition.

stop talking about aim, talk about combatskills instead, which includes dodging and aiming which both are very important in top level duel

isn't this an fps?

omgins+em

and ppl say im retarded

everything is relative

and you're still retarded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8--FybgMgto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rce75JYlJd8

not always

Here is a list of combat skills that contribute to winning duels:

Weapon choice
Dodging meta
Exit damage
Pre-fight positioning
Post-fight positioning
Item timing
Enemy stack awareness
General map awareness

Aim is just one contributing factor, there are heaps of other combat skills as seen above that can have a big impact, skills that players like rapha use to beat better aimers.

Some might be wondering why I put item timing on a 'combat' skill list: it's because being able to time items in the middle of a high pressure fight is a skill that is difficult to master. While you are having close quarters rocket fights, or any kind of fights really, on top of a major item like RA or MH it's difficult to mentally add or subtract item timings and keep those times in the forefront of your mind while planning your routes around the map and fighting. It is a 'skill' that needs to be used during combat, therefore I think item timing can be classed as a skill that is ultimately essential for winning fights in combat situations.

if you wanna improve then don't try to calculate stuff during fights.
Just wait till the fight is done and then make an estimation of how long the fight took and from that figure out the respawntime of the item(s).

(In general the 'calculating' part of timing is heavily overrated by players who think it is a skill to add/subtract)

That is a bad way to do it imo because estimations still require more thinking than just memorising the times. What i do if i am in a fight during picking up an item is take notice of the time of the pickup and then figure out when the next mega should come up after the fight through memory. But even this can be hard sometimes because you forget to remember. And anybody who takes quake seriously knows that calculating 12 + 35 isn't the hard part, it's the remembering to remember part that's difficult because you are trying to do 20 different things at once.

if you think that then I would advice you not to try it.
If however you want to improve I'd urge you to do.

ToxjQ vs rapha @quakecon

yeah I never understood why rapha was so flustered after that game, he got outclassed in a fps game by a far superior fps player. strategy and everything aside, so many noobs believe that good position means instawin fight.

Watching his games against other players that quakecon I think it was because the only thing worse than getting raped is getting raped even when you are in the zone. He was destroying everyone until he met the toxinator. Imo it was the match that finally made rapha lower his sens for better lg.

I can't remember the other maps well, but Rapha really messed up some of the fights on Sinister I thought - it wasn't a case of them both hitting what they normally would and Tox just being better. There were a few places Rapha underperformed.

Not to downplay Tox being better on the day, he deserved the win, but that map at least looked worth getting frustrated over to me. Especially one fight on the RA stairs if memory serves.

He died like 2 or 3 times at RA stairs which time are u talking about