Elder hype!

ELDER
L
D
E
R

\(: D)/

No Hidden Fortress for TDM? Game is dead.

Meh. I never liked that map much for TDM. Europeans seem to like it a lot though. I wonder why it wasn't included. I bet the other teams voted against its inclusion.

what about quake? you are player only play 40 games in last month. once per week. You play clan arena 90% times
http://quakelive.com/#!profile/matches/FlashSoul/2015-04-26

Yes, I only play on weekends now. So basically I warm up and then I keep playing CA instead of adding in a TDM pickup like I used to. It should be noted that it's far less active in NA than in Europe.

I have no idea why you would bring that up, though. Are you stalking me, kind anon?

What? Is internet stalking prohibited now a sudden of all?

Not prohibited, just creepy ;).

because you do not know anything about TDM. you are CA player. Hidden Fortress is great TDM map.

Thats the burden of being a well known internet personality, between all the barely legal braces wearing hot groupies there will always be mad stalkers aswell ;)

yeah hidden fortress instead of dreadful place or ragnarok would have been great.
it's still not too bad a maplist for TDM, I expected worse from the yanks :p

If I had to choose a map to take away (say to let Hidden Fortress in), it would be Grim Dungeons. Tight corridors with corners everywhere and no plasma gun!

True dat!

this will sux....

no cypher at finals, bcs he wont win any tdm or ctf...

not fair at all ;) stupid rules

it's a conspiracy!

elder??? lol

How does it play?

like a doughnut

In soviet russia...map play you

The guy who's in control is sitting on the top part of the map with the key so he can easily go to mega, RA, or top YA in like 3-5 seconds. With the exception of the LG, the major weapons and lower YA are out of the in-control guy's territory, and he has to give up center position to get any of them.

The map seems pretty easy to play out of control. The out of control person has an entire atrium with 70 armor and a 50 hp bubble all to themselves most of the time, and it's very easy to just run away if the in-control guy tries to make a move on it. It's easy to get a time on/spam rockets at RA from this atrium, but the out of control guy has to make a pretty bold move to center map/mega side to get a time on mega. This and the lower YA are pretty much the only two reasons out-of-control-guy has to go to the mega side of the map, and because the in-control guy will be sitting on the "key" route in top center map, there's pretty much only one path to get from rail side to mega side for the out-of-control guy, and it's easily spammed.

It could use some tweaking to make the two players run into each other more/motivate players to go moving around the map more. As of right now it seems awfully slow because it's missing a lot of these things.

Interesting. The rest of the map pool is composed of fairly slow maps so there goes the hope of having a map that could be played quite fast.

If there's a consensus on potential flaws about the map, perhaps after a one-map cup, I wonder if it could be fixed in time for players to practice the modified version enough.

nice explanation
:D

cheers

Harosh bloodrun + Cooller

Elder

no cure for duel ? :( but lostworld ? :(

overall good mappools

dm13 >> cure

no tiny maps ;(((

cooller/rapha prolly favs for 1v1 with this pool t b h

just gonna out-experience every1

cooller over cypher?

no hub/tox/cure/rapefest maps so I would sadly say yes. unless cooller mental block 2stronk

waiting on the 1day elder cup announcement from 125fps now. =p

did you just call cure fast?

I never said fast. I said small (actually i said neither so idk where u got that from =p). i think ppl confuse those 2 terms. u can play aerowalk slowly... it's not a "FAST" map, its a small map thats why the pace can often times feel faster than something like ztn.

elder looks like a shitmap tbh

Elder <--- trolling?

wish it was

:/

Elder is sick, I honestly can't wait to see some pro action on it!

ELDER
L
D
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l m a o :(
m
a
o
:(

rofl

I like the fact that Elder is included but there isn't a single fast map.

grim dangerous

grim viewing

I would like to see Elder tested in some ODCs before they throw it in the QCon pool..

would love to see elder pld, very interesting map

my only objection with the map pool is that it has only slow maps. it needs at least 1 fast map too

aero or toxicity, or any fast high scoring map

Elder W.T.F

dig it though

I've never seen elder and it may be great, but I think that since a lot of the pros have to learn highest level play on game types they are not familiar with on maps they don't know too well, adding a new 1v1 map in there as well seems kind of shitty. Like an extra homework assignment.

Also we all know Cooller probably won't even practice it, so it's going to ruin his difficult matches :).

There is still time (TM)

You need to know and play well all 5 maps in order to win in a swiss system tourney

Elder in. Cool.

Hope it will stick around.

Has anyone actually played duel on Elder yet, I mean on a decent level?

Yes. Only the best.

BIBIRY!!!!!!!!!!!

biebs has some nice movement but he needs some TDM

And a caring loli. )

turns out pros suck on new maps too

What kind of comment is that? Was first time i ever saw the map.

he jelly

-
With this being the case... then who actually got to vote on maps? coz I'm still confused about that.
I mean just how did an untested map make it into the map-pool of a Swiss-tourney?

From what I understand it was a + - voting system

so would a - vote for Cure automatically become a + vote for Elder?
How many maps were actually available to choose from?


However I'm glad Cure is out - far too much happens at that boring RA trap - but I wouldn't have chosen to replace it with this.
-

Sorry, but you must admit your start in particular was quite funny ;)

yeah - we know the answer... :-)

is that your qlive hud? Can i get a copy?

well they mostly seem clueless.
First impressions of the map as a spec:
-There seem to be too much shit where you can bump into, between stuff coming off the walls, narrow openings in the wall and such.
-It takes like 3 seconds to pickup the freaking rail down in a pit with basically no exit.
-The Mega part of the map looks to be the hardest one to attack. If it becomes the hiding place for the out of control guy, taking mega as his go-to item come back in the map, that is bad.
-Them stairs are 2 slow to move up and down.
-way too many small ledges and corridors where you cannot dodge AT ALL and really cannot pick a fight.
-RA is basically useless to pickup. It's very hard to reach, it's super exposed and if you ain't in firm control is a big gamble. I wonder if somebod will ever hide in the midlevel section of the second pillar to RA crouching lol.
-Way too many hiding places
-Flow of the map doesn't look great, it really doesn't strike me as "a quake map"

Will try it in the next future anyway

Edit: i forgot... The key thing is bullshit

just from ur desc, it seems like a very strategic map

this is such a witty response, I back up your statement with all I have :D

Mechanics with keys is interesting.
+1 Almost half a map needs to be finished)

After 31 games; it's pretty much fine.

the buttons are cool

Pimped and majored.

Designed by Adam 'SyncError' Pyle for Duel, Elder is also available for small FFA and 2v2 TDM matches.

lol just let noctis pick the maps. Or better yet me.

gienon duel mappool
-Hub
-Hektik
-Tox
-Eye2Eye
-Ztn

not gonna happen since syncerror didnt make eye to eye

tox
aero
ztn
dm13
t7
sini
cure

dm20
purga
dp
dm14
ragnarok
limbus
cpm4

ctf
dont bother ;D

Grim Dungeons -> dm20
Pillbox -> anything


grim is so boring with the only action happening every 2 mins...dunno why they keep it instead of action packed like dm20

preferred CTF maps instead of Pillbox: Future Crossings, Jumpwerkz, Reflux, Siberia, Stonekeep, Stronghold, Waters

Because tdm players like playing tdm instead of ffa.

Teams still control areas (lg) & time items.

A normal TDM game lasts 20 mins, why do you want a 10 minute break? You could literally go afk in ra for 30-60 seconds in most games like your awful game against unknown.

People are fooled by the scores...40-40 because you split the map & split the items then never attack each other except for PU...only time there's a score gap is if a PU is killed early (weak quad or BS falls down).

Clearly you know exactly what its like to play unknown on dm14.

I think you were at yellow most the time so it's roles reversed but yeah...only time their lives were in danger was if they went to rail

tox probably went to take a piss mid way through

Holy shit this is amazing, let me get my pen.

I got no pizza boxes

))

nobody voted Intervention (osp6)? :(

Yeah i agree dm14 is boring to watch compared to dm20. They are after all complete opposites.
But looking from TDM player perspective dm14 is basically what TDM is all about. You camp one spot and move to powerup every 2min. DM20 is just not built that way. You're forced to move around and with health being so scarce you're bound to make a kill by simply spamming everyone you see.
That kind of gameplay pisses TDM players off. Because after receiving damage, you can't return to safe spot to build yourself up. You're not in control even when you're winning. I'm guessing duelers hate that feeling even more :)
I still believe dm20 type of gameplay is perfect for CA players, bot like aim and constant rush (do more dmg than the opponent mentality) is what that map is all about.

Anyway.. i wonder if dm14 dynamics would change if perhaps lg was switched with rail?

OK then Intervention (osp6) is a good middle choice between chaos (dm20) and boredom (dm14)

I would rather love or hate maps than feel so-so

extremes are actually interesting

osp6 is a great map based on the games I watched before. I just mean in middle in regards to the gameplay (not afk for 2 minutes but not ffa)

Our fav maps in Q3 were dm14 and dm7 and in QL dm20 and dm14.

Polar opposites as you describe.

I don't think the map makes a good match, but the quality of the teams. You want a map to allow the possibility of a good match. That is why open areas for powerups like limbus are a bad idea and closed areas like dp are a good idea.

dm14 forces a certain style sometimes which is good, and dm20 really leaves the gameplay fairly open, which again is pretty good.

dm14 needs no changes, it needs good teams playing smart and good stream coverage explaining it.

Yes that is true, it depends on the teams as well. Some teams will keep the constant pressure on and make the game somewhat more exciting. I remember hating that :)

DM7 was kinda boring to play in the beginning of Q3 as well until people figured out it pays off to rush RA.

Watched couple of vids...Elder looks great, cool design and cool ideas. Finally something with more of a Quake feel. And judging by gameplay, I feel some really interesting games await us. Nice job, Sync. Anyway, still waiting for proper Q5A! :)

Elder Skelter

is this mappool final i dont get it

I DONT SEE THE CA MAP POOLE

"Elder, designed by Adam 'SyncError' Pyle"

And that's the only reason a completely new, and probably broken at high level duelling map got added in the most important tournament in place of better traditional maps.

2 Votes from the casters might have contributed

Source.

at least it isn't reflux

Elder?
AHHAHAHA
Best fail of QC 2015 i hope!

Don't cry. Your precious ztn is there as well.

5 map for duel sux :\

the maps need to be 7, with the addition of 2 smaller ones

i agree

(+/-) Sinister (-> has shown somewhat entertaining games)

(+) Blood Run (-> most appreciated map there is (uncountable amount of unforgettable duels played on it))

(+) Furious Heights (-> viewed as the most balanced map -> strategic, insightful play will get you the win; what better map to determine the most skilled?)

(+) Lost World (-> again: very strategic and demanding map)

(+) Elder (provides a relatively even playing field which allows us to see whose understanding/skill of the duel-game is on the highest level at that day. Finally, some non generic fights! Fights that have not been anticipated by players beforehand, allowing for some spontaneity and originailty to arise.

Does anyone else share this view? I believe that, given the tightening circumstances of the duel-tournament's conditions, this mappool gives the most rounded player the chance to shine. Looking forward to it :-)

elder is like finishing the grand prix driving in reverse on a relatively untested course. the theres completely unnecessary to involve some golden key in duel, the game has been crafted for 15 years without one. introducing a completely new aspect to the game 3 months before the years biggest event is beyond me. i dont know why a map thats released 3 months prior would end up being voted on in the first place, let alone when it involves such odd mechanics.

if you're looking to find out whos the most well-rounded dueler, how about playing the same game that has been played for the last 15 years?

-
because they are determined to change and add things
(in an attempt to unnecessarily) 'freshen things up'... by their way of thinking.


I don't like the idea of the map area changing halfway through or giving 'even more' control to a player through use of a key.
Does a football pitch or tennis court change halfway through the game?

Quake is supposed to be played at a professional level - this kind of map is OK for fun - but it shouldn't (in my opinion) be used for a pro-tourney.
For the same reason you shouldn't ever have destructible scenery in Quake - I feel it brings in an element of 'luck' or at least 'randomness' that a pro game - shouldn't have.

Quake has always done well over the years to let the players skill shine - where other games have too many random elements.


Note: I am aware that Q1 and Q2 had traps and moving scenery
-

-
I'm unsure - it depends whether players see a worth in learning (anything there is to learn) about this map - given they have to familiarise themselves with game-types they may be unsure of - like CTF - then I can see them just dropping to the floor and taking frustrating LG fights.
-

Elder => Aerowalk
and we have perfect duel mappool.

elder
hahahahahahaha

can we see who voted what? ;o

need Aerowalk for duel and Hidden Fortress for tdm. (replacing for example elder and grim dungeons)
Then we have good maplists :)

Sync confirmed my guess of exactly 4 votes for elder on fazz stream chat. I think he also said they'll release the voting results but no idea when or where.

Good news. I'm looking forward to see the poll results.

So, that's why fazz was naked on stream? To get votes for elder? :p

what would the maps have been without zoot/other caster's votes?

I haven't seen the voting results so no idea.

oh OK. well we know elder would be on 2 instead of 4 and cure would have at least 1 more ranking (zoot voted it out, dunno what jehar voted out)

There were also 2 votes by organizers, hence why i guessed 4 votes. ;)

organisers deserve their votes, don't think the commentators should get a say though

i would want the audience to have 1 vote at least :/
as for commentators i dont think their opinion is any more valid than the spectator*s. no offense @casters

edit: i put it wrong, i dont say casters dont know more about the game than the average player. Im just saying a community input of as little as 10 percent on the decisions made would be greatly appreciated but w/e :)

Looking through these comments, it seems to me "The Whine Train" has arrived once again!

I'm actually sad we won't be able to comment about groups for this tournament.

All aboard!

Quake duelers are so pussy. There's no merit in playing a map that's already known for years. It's like winning a trip to anywhere in the world and choosing your own backyard for destination. Anyone who always plays safe on ancient overplayed maps and is afraid of new, unknown and untested, does not deserve any respect imho.

new maps are welcome, changing the focus from player vs player to player vs key or player vs map is not what dueling should be about

you seem to overrate key influence too much lol

yeah. theres also rail room, stairs to low YA, and is the locket room also changeable? like, introducing new elements is fine, but players arent gonna adapt in a proper fashion so quickly before quakecon.

yeah these guys who have been playing quake for decades totally can't handle a new map... and theres nothing new about any of these mechanics they are actually pretty old school..

unquestionably able to handle it; playing around them on the highest level possible, no. you're right that they're old school tho, dating all the way back since before the current generation started playing.

It's 2 players in same map, same rules, and same possibilities. Exactly what dueling is about. Key doesn't change any of that at all.

sure, the key is like another item to play around. my problem with the map is more the implementation 3 months before the years biggest event, and the fact that its FAR from the only untested new mechanic on that map

I don't see why you see it as a problem. Untested is not a problem, it's actually desirable, because I want to see real skill, not practiced to death scripted moves.

It also makes players feel unsafe, uneasy and uncomfortable, which is exactly the best situation I'd like to see them competing.

your view of good competition is wack

I don't feel that the key is giving any decisive advantage. I am actually not sure if it gives any advantage at all... it seems like it simple changes ur options, having it or not.

It's a small advantage, not a complete game-changer like some people trying to refer to it.

maybe it is more fun for them to play map they are good at? you want take away advantage they have from playing many hour on one map. your comment not deserve any respect from dueler.

Not interested in seeing a competition where contenders are having fun instead of going through hell.

elder choice is a little strange, others are ok

It's so that SyncError can list "QuakeCon map designer" on his CV

his maps have been played at qcon for a few years now..

ELDER... ELDER SCROLLS!

Coincidence... I don't thnk so! Bethesda conspiracy...

Chemtrails... 9/12... #globalcooling #deflategate

Morrowwind was the best Elder Scrolls game.

Oblivion. Especially Shivering Isles expansion.

Skyrim!

elder scrolls onlan

Been playing it over the course of about 4 months now here and there. Been pretty far into the main questline, also did a fair bit of side missions, notably the joining and completing the thieves guild (GrayFox mask is OP) and also completed the fighters guild naturally since I've been playing a pure warrior.

It's pretty damn win thus far tbh. Takes a while to learn everything, but it's a blast once you get the hang of everything.

Damn DamianLillard youre one well informed dude :D

Someone please light me up. The key on elder respawns instantly after the carrier was killed right?

Yes afaik.

Ty.

Question to SyncError:
Can the key be affected by the "wait" entity key and what is the entity Name?
I think this could be fun for team modes. Can the key get dropped with drop pu and does the key carrier get its own poi marker?

heh Popa

Lol did my comment about elder got erased? I wonder why, was just pointing out that there are many areas on the map that remind me off other maps

I got pretty much the same feelings. Red is like red on ztn, mega is like red on aero, rail is kinda T7-ish.

Big Jumppad to yellow -> Campgrouds/ Sinister
Red -> kinda mix of ztn and jump to mega at Cure
Mh -> Aerowalk
Railarea -> Kinda Furious Heightsish

Don't think that is a problem aslong as it got his on style. Can't judge so far if that is the case just recognized it

Im looking forward Doom 4.

Looks into this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSzYliSASKc

awesome!

Map selection is pick-pick-drop-drop, so unless somebody really wants to play Elder, it might not be played a single time.

Elder seems like a best option for weaker players to get something against masters like Rapha or Cypher. So I guess they will practice it unless they really don't like it :D

I don't know... who in their right mind would pick a slow, calculated, positioning-heavy map against rapha?

I guess we'll see at QCon, but I really don't see it happening.

Fazz reading map pool with Elder in:

ROFL

And instantly starts to strip. : D

CTF pool is much to modern for my taste

Huh? 3 out of 5 maps are old (Ironworks, Jap Castles, Spider Crossings).

Compare that to last year's pool, where only 3 ouf of 7 maps were old (Jap, Spider, Troubled Waters).

edit:

Unless you consider Ironworks "modern", even though it has been played to death for 6 years. If that's the case, there are 2/5 = 40% old maps this year, and 3/7 = 43% old maps last year; so it's basically the same.

To further my point:

Last year, three modern maps were (afaik) played for the first time on a major LAN; Pillbox, Infinity, and New Cerberon.

This year, there isn't a single new modern map.

I really don't get what you're trying to complain about. Last year's pool was so vastly more modern, it's not even remotely similar to this year.

i do count iron as modern. I remember well how polarising Iron was in #ctfpickup 2012ish some people completely refused to play it and it was regularly dropped in cws. all im saying is i like it oldschool and would rather have infinity OR pillbox in and a classic wcp5 or why not something less common as finnegans? im a filthy 1800 casual just my opinion.

I will enjoy the event anyway in ctf you have to be thankful for anything you can get and the lineups are screaming for sensational games

Thanks for ignoring all my points.

you chose to compare to last year's pool not me. I just explain why it's too modern for my taste

Elder hiding spot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gHZGjHlxS8

It's only useful if no one knows. :=)

Well that has been ruined now for sure

Already regret it.
But I felt bad from making people rage when I went to make sandwiches 1 minute into the game and came back when game was over. :_D

Would have been fun if someone hadn't picked that up until Qcon.

You should have disclosed it to your favorite dueler right before the qcon. Imagine the drama!

The right bidder would be prepared to pay some serious $$$ for that sort of information

lol...bit of a joke a map so untested / unproven makes its way to a pool.

Slowest duel maps ever, great choices. Why not just make every game zzzztn?

Best. QuakeCon. Ever.

that does not say much then lol

Maps best for :Cooller and Evil.
Cypher and Ralpha wil have a hard time.

Evil is gonna take full advantage from this map pool by staying home.

Ow.

evil fearz cas h0b0 team make it happen!

care

We haven't even seen Elder in any of the regular cups, now it gets into Qcon map pool.

My future advice to the casters and organizers who voted this in, the next time you piss your pants over something new, think with your head.

All this Elder whine is hilarious. I'm glad to see something new in the map pool. Seeing the same maps regurgitated every year is mind-numblingly boring. For better or worse, Elder games will be fresh.

Nothing wrong with putting new maps in the pool over old ones... but to have a completely new and unplayed map in the only big lan tournament of the year is just rediculous.

Thats the think people dont seem to get. Most people arent against new maps, but fear that map wont get optimized enough before qcon

Word. I agrees. But fun and chaotic it will be yes.

RA, YA, rail, LG, Key on one side of map. Mega, YA, plasma, and rocket on other side of map.
Possibility to force every spawn on plasma. Hmm.... Lets take a second to think about this....

Will we have good matches on this map? Sure, 2-0 or 20-0 can be fun matches, for 1 guy at least :)

the key is in the middle, what are you talking about?

the lg guy spawns closer and he has an lg. I think he knows what he's talking about.

I tried rushing Key when i get plasma spawn. It just ends up with me getting raped, unless opponent makes a huge mistake, but that we cant rely on.

Nah he doesn't

what's a good balance between the two sides?

If you played it a lot already try to get in contact with syncerror or the focus group. Pro feedback is very appreciated.

rapha recently said (on fazz stream I think) he always trains all the maps on the pool to have the best chance to be the best in the world on it, wether he likes the map or not.

so you can be sure he will be an Elder-master by Qcon. I wouldn't say that for more lazy players ! it could turn in a default win for rapha if the pros don't train hard on it ^^

He didnt like cure either and you saw the game vs dahang!

Indeed one of the reasons he's the best in the world.

I can't for the life of me think of one map that he's weak on.

lakerman back yet?! :/