not exactly what you are looking for but here is a game that is a blend of warsow and xonotic with some brand new items like jetpacks

Are you completely sure that this is a game and not a mod? It looks like mod for warsow.

It is its own game. Its just using the same engine as warsow (qfusion).

Well, the game kind of looks retarded to me. The mix is not a good idea. At least not that type of mix like on this video.

Despite the name, I dont think the end product is supposed to be a mix. I think the dev is intending to create a brand new game.

Also the xonotic models are due to be replaced, they are just for testing.

He should really change the name and get some new placeholders to stop the confusion

At some point, speed just removes all strategy and it becomes reaction based nonsense.

welcome to esr

where people play fps for the tactics and chess for the skills

Your cynicism is dull.

Your statement is infuriating.

edit: the original statement

I wasn't saying CPM is too fast to have strategy, I don't know what it loses or gains. But warsow duel and hldm surely are lacking in it, purely because there's so much mindless running around, whereas in vq3 you undoubtedly have movements that can be calculated in quite small detail.

Actually it is games like CPM which gives you greater ability to control your doings through air control and fast weapon switch. I thought proponents of VQL justified the clunky gameplay because of the inability to control everything on the spot, thus having to think more fights beforehand. CPM, for example, wagers this with more stress on weapon combo mechanics, a different tactical subset.

I wasn't thinking that you were talking about cpm. But the only way speed "kills" strategy or tactics is by relativity. Because there isn't that much of it to begin with, so the only way to make strategy and tactics have more weight is by keeping the game dumbed down. The only way to have absolutely more strategy is to pervert a shooter into something that's a mix of fps and other games. The skill always comes first(or last whichever way you want to look at it) in shooters because whatever decision you make you use aim to put it into fruition. And to want to keep the game dumbed down and slow so that what little strategy and tactics there are have more weight, that's what's so infuriating.

I know well enough how you can make strategy and tactics relatively more important by slowing the game down - CS is a great exacmple of that, for one. But flying around the way it is in HLDM or warsow, strategy is definitely largely eliminated. There's no way around that, if you fly for long periods of time without seeing your oponent... It's just mechanics, not thinking.

But what's wrong with that? What's wrong with having a fast paced FPS focused on skill above all? It's the most organic display of skill of all genres, why not embrace that? Why not enjoy CS and starcraft for their tactics and strategy and let fast paced fps be the pinnacle of what's humanly possible?

Because starcraft and at least vq3 are both pinnacles of skill AND strategy. Why not have both?

I don't think vq3 is the pinnacle of either.

I always thought CS is about learning the choke points and controlling them. You hardly see a fight that happens in a odd positions of the map. Predictable strategy.

personally, I always felt warsow plays slower than cpm, because while your average ups when moving is probably higher in wsw, the maps are also bigger and weapons are infinitely less powerful than in cpm.

you have a point though. need to keep the balance, but a little tending to be " reaction based nonsense"

Maybe so, but in the video Garpy does controls largish map from an inferior opponent, denying him things like the jump pack so I don't find it spotless illustration of the point.

I wouldn't mean to say it removes all strategy, so it's fine.