ew

why ew? how can dat smoove mooovement possibly be bad? i mean it's basically cpm right now but fuck me if it aint pretty

no i mean look at those walls wtf cod is so much prettier than that

uhhhhm

prefer a game like in this early Reflex video than this http://images.fpsguru.com/articles/images/300..._00006.jpg :P

i just got eyecancer thanks

well any day. games with saturated colors, blur and what not is getting impossible for me to play. Even when played need for speed with a friend, my eyes scream for less details. I'm some kind of 'special' blind bat i guess though, eyes don't like all the light bloom and shit, they give up.

i'm the same way. I prefer well designed simplicity with a bite to it over the river of 'eye candy' any day. that's why quake 3 still looks good to me. it's a remarkably well designed game (style wise)

well i have a preference, but it's more my eyes that just gives up and barfs at all the light. srsly. I might be light sensitive or something.

ew for another cpma

will be senseless to make it like QL or vQ3, it needs to be different.

imo its cool.

Why it needs to be different, ql/vq3 is the best movement there is and it's been the most popular among quake-competition. And you can't aircontrol in real life either so cpm movement would be unrealistic and nobody would like it. Just disgusts me somehow.

because why move to other game which is exactly the same?

and vq3 movement is arguably best, I like cpma because it is unrealistic. Its video game.

and... talking about realism in quake is kinda invalid.

It's just I don't want them to ruin a potentially decent game with having the retarded cpm movement. That's just my opinion though. The vq3 movement is so good that you just can't improve it so that's why it should be exactly the same, obviously the _game_ isn't exact copy of ql.

Ps. sarcasm :*

E: was half-serious though, there must be some truth innit!

btw. many people will say that vq3 is retarded compared to cpma :P

Agreed. If they've indeed created their own engine, and have an amazing platform for making a fast, competitive FPS game. No need for them to overly restrict themselves and ruin it by making it a CPM clone.
Otherwise looks real promising.

yeah vq3 due to being square physic is superior cus it limites your options during fight, you dont need any skill at all(mb not at all but cpm is far harder to master) to move efectively around map. Good for you that you enjoy this :) If movemnt should be exactly the same then why not to make a rule that in for example faceit you have to use same mices keyboards everything during fight. Will be that good?

this is probably the greatest post i've ever read

lies. You didn't [ + ] there ;p

;p

"ql/vq3 is the best movement there is"



bitch pleaaaaaase

also: vq3 fegs can't strafe

Of course there is more depth in cpm-movement but it doesn't suit duel/gameplay :B Most players can't strafe ye but don't see it as a problem just their shame and their loss they haven't learned it well! Quite a lot of depth in normal strafing aswell, e.g. try strafing with +forward only!

i agree duel and strafing doesnt fit well that's why ctf is the ultimate gametype. why not have 2 movement types and let the player decide. the 1337 will always pick promode but it has always been a minority.

arguably some people are pointing that vq3 is +back only :P

Probably cpma-players who cannot into brain and don't like the fact you can't win with just aiming and jumping around. :Y

qw begs to differ ;D

Just shitty stairs.. :<

Why did PK die? :S

netcode

How is rocket jumping realistic?
That's wtf I thought....

xD

E: they have these suits that can handle the explosion!
http://blastmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/eod.jpg

"And you can't aircontrol in real life either so cpm movement would be unrealistic and nobody would like it. Just disgusts me somehow."

is this nigga serious

So make the game you want to be made. Otherwise you seem like a self-entitled, lazy whiner. They are making the game they want to make.

They should be making a game that people wants to play, not a game they want to make :P

Hi ix, long time no see!

you can't strafe jump in real life either.. or survive direct rockets etc.

arguing for q3 movement by bringing up realism is pretty lol

are you telling me, that ql/vq3 movement is realistic ? please do show a video where you circle jump and strafejump in reallife while holding a rocketlauncher

AND MASSIVE LULZ IF HE'D REALLY DO THAT.

> needs to be different

copies another movement scheme. gg.

Why so defensive? You guys have no problem with activity in QL/vQ3, it's logical to try to revive the less popular side with a fresh project like this.

Logical if making this game is a hobby.

This reminds me a lot of Ultrono Arena, the game that CZM made.

god bless cpm3a

their*

I always liked cpm 1.1 movement which was huge air time with strafes and ability to do sick jumps (easily)

It made cpm actually fun. Granted it took away a bit of skill, but that shit was boss.

make it difficult and fast and difficult and really fast and really difficult. i don't want any vq3 fegetry

nice to see results =)

If anyone is interested, there is a 60fps version of that clip you can grab here: http://reflexfps.net/60fps.mp4

Edit: There's also a mega mirror here: http://tinyurl.com/nclz442 (thanks mew!)

QW Dead
PK Dead
CPMA Dead
Warsow Dead
Reflex Dead?

This crappy air control movement is not appealing to very many people, it's kinda pointless spending all this time making a cpma clone when many other games have proven it's not profitable. You might not want to make money with it, but it's also not a profitable time investment when it ends up dead in a couple of weeks/months.

Quake is already a niche by being much faster, harder to learn and doesn't have pew pew guns like those "modern" shooters, cpma is a niche of a niche so basicly you're aiming for the 1% of the 1%.

That said, good luck and I hope you have fun creating this.

Edit: forgot warsow!

qw dead? if there is one game that is still actively played after 17 years its quake. look up defrag on youtube and tell me aircontrol s not appealing to many people.

imagine you're drowning and grasping for anything to save your life

yeah, read my post above. its good for Qw, pk , wsw , CPM players, so it's good for 100 players in total.
VQ3/QL are to fast for much guys, so with this kind of movement, game will have max 500 active players.

Well the CPL had a million dollar tournament for the 17 guys that played painkiller so...

it's even more makes CPM style movement worse. You have million dollar tourneys and noone gives a f*ck.

And what, if it was like vq3 there would be a big community? You're so deluded it's not even funny :D

CS,CSS,CSGO, TFC, TF2, BF3 and BF4 (+ whatever else) would really like a word about your "crappy air control movement". More people can do that they can your standard strafe/circle jump.

QW has lasted the longest and is still semi-active in EU (~20 TDM 4v4 teams). A few years ago their numbers were much higher. They've had recent TDM leagues with a decent turn out. I would say the reason for QW's popularity isn't due to bunny hopping however but how TDM works.

http://draft.quakeworld.nu/season3/
http://eql.quakeworld.nu/eql17/

i've no idea why air control is the default movement :/

'cause it's fun.
It feels limitless, as opposed to vq3.

since when is limitless good?

ask starcraft

who's that

oh sorry it's steve starcraft of course, some guy who works at starbucks

nice

Eh .. ?

I asked since when is limitless a good thing?

since when its bad?

never letting go the +forward button is so intense man.

why don't you stick a jet engine to a player model's ass and just fly around? why even touch the ground?

absolute freedom.

Not sure if serious. Watch Gellehsak vs. Hal in that last duel cup. Or watch some old games by pod1, dziku, etc. There's a lot of different playstyles.

imo even more playstyles than vanilla.

eh I personally like to play CPM more, but I think map size and sound system makes up for the movement in ql, in terms of number of options. Though my opinion is a 1200 elo shitter opinion so ye.

it's fun to exactly who? 100-200 people that play or played cpm and warsow combined?

There is a point to be made here. CPM movement already isolates the game to the smallest of niches.

usually games that are fun for a larger market are a bit shit. we're just a bunch of nerds with refined taste and higher intellect.

that's interesting, because cpm movement isn't about intellect but faster reflexes

i would say it is about both

Have a [+], my good sire.

i wouldn't say the movement style had anything to do with how the popularity of any of the games turned out

Even if you only count cs it's still way more people than what, q2 and q3 combined? Oh no, you're right strafejumping in a slightly curved line is sooo popular.

sorry, but either you don't have a clue on what you're talking about or you fail at english.

Oh nose, the 34 members of the QL community are going to boycott reflex... what a loss...

The 17 members of the CPMA community are going to be the only ones playing Reflex after a year. What a gain.

"Registered: 14 Jul 2009" Those 17 members will be playing Quake/reflex long after the likes of you have disappeared.

Thank you for repeating what I said.

if air control and fast weapon switch is so fun why does the vast majority of people play normal strafemode shooters?

let's see here:

qw: somewhat alive
cpm: dead
wsw: dead
painkiller: dead

compared to:

ql (combinging q3&q4 players): alive (this has to hurt after so many years of rambling about how shit & dead it is while infact quake has never been livelier)
csgo: blooming
halo & similar console crap: blooming

reflex has limited itself to a very niche community before it even displayed anything other than concept art and a tech demo. hf watching the server list few months after release: 1x 10/10, 1x 5/10, 999 x 0/10. maybe y'all can merge the #cpmpickup & #reflexfps to a new channel and break the peak users record set in 2007 of 104 users at the same time.

easier to learn and easier to access. back in the 2000's some people made a decision to support vq3 more than cpm and the masses followed.

the decision was based on something though right?

bias by some organizer? who knows?

fact is, the majority of the quake community has been playing the same set of physics in competitive play (aside from q4) since 1999. it's time for change. whatever this game ends up being, I hope it's not the same stale fucking quake 3 ruleset people have been playing for ~13 years. I hope people don't just play ztn and hub either.

I'm also not for a direct clone of cpm physics. this is merely a test demo to show that he has an engine and he obviously has the ability to implement different movement physics into his game engine.

noone talking about 1:1 QL/VQ3 movement. They can combine UT walljumps and VQ3 style strafes, Q2/QL doublejumps and a bit bigger air control. I would love to see UT walljumps in QL, It gives some fun in movement and in fight. Maybe not so high Walljumps, but some tweaked.
Teleports are same as in cpm. WHY? Make it PK/Q4 style, you keep speed and you can shoot throught it. They need to take best parts from evey good FPS and add it.
I even prefer some "boost item" like i UT (bigger jumps and so on), so you could have CPM movement for a while in a game. We need something new , something fresh...

TF2 would like a word

This game has air control and is still one of the most played games on Steam.

Yeah except for the fact that you forgot about TF2 which has air control and a SHIT TON of players (most of them who don't even know how to do airstrafing, as it's called in TF2, but that's not the point)

To me. And a couple of other people who, at some point in their lives, joined a CPM server and never went back to VQ3.

I'd much rather fly through maps than creep like s snail.

Matter of taste.

if reflex was the same as ql, why would ql players switch?
In terms of textures/models/sounds reflex will probably have a hard time to reach ql standards ...

I look forward to a cpmish dm fps ...

let's just play with noclip then

lol

gl, you will need lots

solid 30fps in last run :P

Yeah, it was FRAPS fault.

That seem very good.

A bit off topic, but as far as movement goes: I can say that for me its not the speed (not realism as well) why I don't like such high air control. I mean, I can appreciate good games in i.e. cpma, but after a short while it just gets boring.

The ratio of possibilities vs constraints of vanilla play just brings out more in a game from me. There were quite a bit of variation in movement from q2, q3, q4 and ql and in other stuff (weapon switch time, dmg etc), but with qw, cpma, pk, wsw etc the focus switches way to far to one aspect of the game for me. Hence I will never have interest in playing actively those kinds games.

never had anyone to play more cpm and such, because skill gap was more difficult for me than on q3/ql (short after), at the time when I started to have interest in playing quake instead of et and cs, and I never thought of it in this way, but that's actually interesting point you're making

I just got this idea.

How about that movement + basketball IN THE GAME.

You get a ball and you pass it to teammates in order to shoot into a goal and get points.

The other team can take the ball from you if they gaunt you. (or intercept the passes)

Also you could have combo plays where your team gaunts you and makes you air hop. Also could gaunt the ball instead of receiving it to quickly pass it/ rebound it for whatever reason.


This would be insane because of all the tricks and curves on the maps. Put in a weighted system for 'throwing' the ball into the goal and you could create a whole new e-sport / video game mash up.

7/10 would play

Already done in Firefall. I liked the idea but in FF it failed miserably because of the game mechanics and player classes.
I would love to see this implemented correctly.

arQon actually always wanted to do this.

I remember playing a bbal mod, but I can't remember the name. Anyone?

theres a famous bball mod for TF2, but i guess u dont mean that

No, it was definitely q3.

ProBall?

I'd play it.

I feel like there'd need to be more than just those 2 ways to steal the ball, though, and I'd replace gauntlet'ing someone with something else. I don't know what, but, I'd replace it. Guantlet is far too easy and if you see your teammate is about to get hit by it, you could just spam the shit out of the guy that's about to steal and get the ball right back. Potentially, you could create a train or fucking conga line of 10 players just guantlet'ing each other in the back.

And let me tell you something right fucking now: flocks does not want to possibly be in ANY kind of train that involves ESR members.

:<

Sounds like FragBall for UT99. Or adapted as Bombing Run into the game series successors.

This gametype is a bit like a game of sport, since you have to pick up a "ball" in the center of the map and run with it to the "goal", right at the heart of the enemy base. You get 3 points for firing the ball through the goal (the only weapon you can use whilst holding the ball is the Ball Launcher) and 7 for actually walking through the goal holding it. The first team to the preset score wins (or the team with the most points when time runs out). Be aware that after a goal is scored (either a three-pointer or seven-pointer) all players automatically teleport back to their own base.

source: StrategyWiki

The ball carrier can not fire weapons during his run, therefore he has to be protected, unlike the flag carrier in CTF / NTF who can still defend himself anytime.



It was fun!

*edit*: I didn't know about ProBall for Q3 and I wonder which mod has been released earlier?

Looks crazy fun :D

UT2004 is the best vanilla (unmodded) arena fps ever made.

Anyone that disagrees is a noob.

so ur saying UT-Promode is not that great? Cause I tried it out and I've always been a Vanilla UT2004 guy

i disagree: ut2k3

noob

honestly tho, i played a bunch of ut2k3, and then they took out the "boost dodge" move, with some patch. and in ut2k4 it also wasnt there anymore.

i really liked that move :/

Nothing will ever beat the gameplay of ut99 ctf. Period

Remember fooze?

except the video has utcomp

Nice troll. : D

its awesome
you can see more footage here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5OgFsCjm-g#t=3m29s

Didn't Zoot play something very similar in one of his subscriber events?

One flag ctf on railyard with modified server settings if I remember correctly.

take a look at deathball, a mod for ut2004. best adaption of the "ball-in-fps" idea ever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSm97YUZgSI

Unreal Tournament series already did that since more than 10 years ago, with the Bombing Run:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_Run

At first, i though you were making a joke about that :P

This game pretty much did that except it was air control + grapple


and then there's this game coming out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhUErDCozqY

no idea what the fuck is going on there.

I imagine that's how the COD kiddies see the Quake engine games.

imo its should be more like Arma 3... wtf

I hope you guys know that the real idea here is when you stopped strafing and added a part of the map in real time and kept strafing.

THAT is a fucking game. Imagine doing that shit in quakelive duel? You are on ztn at teleporter exit and a nigga is below you trying to rail you when you jump to ra and instead you just build a bridge and walk over to it.

That's fucking genius.

Come up with something like that in a new fps game (slow mode for casuals, + sick graphics) and then you have MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

or close the fucker down on upper teleport exit when he's stacked and wants to take you @ sg platform = $$$

A game mode like sourceforts ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZXebEVAsR0 ) and maybe some entity and weapon mods from resources around the map would be a cool game mode for pub play. It's heavily griefable but mobas seem to do ok with reporting.

You can also make a defrag mode with a HORSE ruleset where the builder has to complete his course and the opponent has to do it. possibly even faster.

is it gonna be available in game? I think its just a special developer mode

:|

I want to have weapon that creates walls and platforms (destructible, with 2 rockets or so), like it was shown in developer mode towards the end of this vid

go minecraft )

minecraft doesnt have :
- quake guns
- strafe jumps
- ztn (you could propably build it in game but still it would look shit)

so there

we need brick gun in reflex

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MAKT6KA_y0 :P

>>> added a part of the map

Or just shoot some object (that keeps floating in air for some time) that you can jump off of. Game programmer could probably add this to current game in 5 minutes.

(Though there would need to be at least some limits imposed I think to avoid overusing this to get out of any situation for free.)

Not sure if this would be so much more fun to play though.

Thanks for posting the video.
Looking great. Keep up the excellent work.

why make cpm movement clone, even the map, on another engine, when you could MAKE A TC/MOD FOR q3 with everything i place??

edit: ok ,spoke too soon, that real time level editor when gameplay testing is good though.

Imagine 4-5 developing a map at the same time with that editor, or the spectator logged in as admin changing the map during a 1v1 between rapha and cypher: "sorry that teleport now drops you into lava :D", or CTF and "sorry the final door to cap the flag has now been blocked off, you must go back around into 3 enemies :D".

I'm looking forward to watching this develop, so many possibilities and this isn't finalized movement either. I'm happy the game feels responsive, exactly where it needs to be for a competitive shooter before working on netcode.

That sounds pretty retarded, nvc... but ok.

excellent

Lets just hope they don't add old maps in to the game when it's released

Like it would change anything...

On that note, I actually think that most of the issues people have with CPM are primarily related to the maps, rather than the gameplay itself. If you look at CPM TDM and CTF, those modes don't get nearly as much hate as CPM Duel does, and part of the reason for that is the fact that those game modes actually have maps that are large and well-designed enough so that the map geometry isn't rendered mostly irrelevant by the movement mechanics.

Most of the CPM Duel maps are these tiny single/dual atrium maps that can be covered entirely within seconds and with little effort and therefore lend themselves to fast, frag-hunting gameplay. But this isn't unique to CPM, because if you consider how small maps like Aerowalk, Hektik or Phrantic play out in QL, it's not that different. The CPM gameplay just exacerbates this fact because it restricts the players to a lesser degree than vanilla does. Conversely, larger and more complex maps would lend themselves to more tactical gameplay in CPM as well.

I think the people who are asking for stuff like air control to be removed/nerfed have the wrong attitude. You don't balance a game by making it less fun to play (else you'd be playing CS instead of Quake). The CPM mechanics are fun, and it's up to map makers to create environments that bring out the most interesting gameplay that the game can produce.

this man here. he knows

this man here. he knows too

Pretty nail on head. Most problems can be fixed with maps.

Of course the problem then becomes players

imo people who don't like the movement just don't want to learn something new.
As a quake noob I should whine even more I guess but I will not.

imo limitless is cool. And cpma is amazing in feel that you can do so many things. Everything fast, smooth, exlpoding, gibs, rockets, great.

gimme q4 movement plzzz

No.

and it doesn't come from a quake 4 hater, cause actually i enjoyed quake 4 quite a lot.

but imho bunny-hop > crouch slide

I see no reason why it shouldn't have both.

like q43a, and it has dodge jump, and air dodges

p0rt - I really hoped you'd hop in here and say something about q43a

download the latest patch and play it all you want

http://www.moddb.com/mods/q43a/downloads/q43a...date-patch

What would the role of crouch-slide be if you have bunny hopping?

sliding through narrow tunnels and keep hopping away to infinity and beyond

more control

not making loud jumping noises and being harder to hit, downside is you can't cross gaps. i liked crouchslide in q4, could surprise people with it

q43a has crouchsliding, and bunny hopping

when you forward+jump and land, you press left and right strafe to gain speed, you can also so it in the air to make bigger gaps

http://www.moddb.com/mods/q43a/videos/q3-stra...g#imagebox

yeah no reason why you couldn't combine the two, but tbh the movement in that video looks rather wonkey to me :)

its no different to cpma and proper quake 3 engine, where you have to use your mouse instead of left and right strafe buttons

non of the sissy stuff thats all done for you they call bunny hopping

I don't think combining fast movement with stealth is a good combination. Depth is about trade offs.

i agree, it seemed a bit too strong, however it was fun :)

crouch slide was way more viable so basically it replaced strafe jumps for the most part
and this is a bummer for q4, games would be better off this thing

Guys are making the game they want, so actually no point to ask to change physix - it will be cpm, let them bring their idea to the level and then discuss. Watched this avek-tox game, such a "meh" gameplay imo, sliding in 3 sec to the other part of map, direct fighting all the time, player fragged - he takes a gun and chase to punish... no traps, no stacking up +backing, no time for casual spec to realize what's happening or enjoy a frag. CPM is very fast too, but with armor system you can have your +back game etc - more versatile imo, more fun to spec. All I like in Q4 - I even forgot that some quake game has some graphics)

Counter Strike > Quake. Deal with it.

CS is retarded and boring compared to Q.
Don't care about popularity.

1.1 - 1.3 cs was "ok".

I think there are some spawned servers with aircontrol and so on in QL and they seem to be popular despite having a very rubbish ruleset. Besides, what makes CPM movement isn't the aircontrol, that isn't an exclusive feature, to me what it really gives the cool mechanics it's the doublejumping and its usage in the map environment (stairs, teles, etc...). That's mostly what makes me play CPM over any other DM game.

i love cpma but... all those things you mentioned are also present in pql m8

(11:45)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2ZcQG19ohU&am...page#t=705 (11:45)

"a very watered down experience in comparison"

I did not say it

edit: lets not discuss about pql in this thread too, please.

its the same physics. and nekon is a noob.

So it's more of the same niche inside a niche thing, with the decades old movement, nothing new and very few players? Not interested.

The map making parts looks great tho.

Hope this wont be an CPMA clone...an uber elitist Q3 mod which plays 0.01% of Quake community. Also, if this game sees the light of the day...please, don't add old maps in it...otherwise, we gonna watch Campgrounds, Bloodrun, some CPMA shit maps...for a month or so and than game will die, eventually.

It's funny that people call CPMA "uber elitist" when it's the only community that has players, and channels to help out new players, whereas in QL, it's the same old "omg u fukn sux nwb, WTFALKDJFAL;SKFJAF"

Right...you really live in imaginative world when saying that CPMA has more players than QL. :/ Or maybe you are on some high quality drugs...who knows. CPMA always sucked and will always suck comapred to VQ3A and QL...deal with it...at best times CPMA had like 100 of regular players and 450 fake aliases.

Where did I say cpm has more players than QL... Do you speak English? At all?

''it's the only community that has players'' - I misunderstood that?

"It's funny that people call CPMA "uber elitist" when it's the only community that has players - and channels - to help out new players"

get it now?

A lot of bullshit. Again, uber elitist thinking and statements. No matter what you say, CPMA is best, right? :P Well, CPMA history speaks for it self...name me a big LAN tournament, with big prize where well known players played CPMA in last 5 years? I hope there was one? I really do...than at least a bit of quake has a bright future.

I don't mind new players, low skill players, etc... but I'm not going to waste my time talking to an idiot that thinks the "cpm community" is some sort of collective hive-mind, that has some come to a unilateral judgement about every other game. Have fun.

Unfortunately, that's how it sounds...for years. So, better clean up in front of your house before walking out side judging others... ;)

Your stupidity is staggeringly incredible, I'd almost go as far as saying that I'm impressed you've made it to adolescence

That's all you can do in this conversation...be rude and offensive. No arguments. GG for you and your precious CPMA!

yeah, because you all are cumming on the walls when potential 30th player appears.

he will quit soon anyway.

Heh, aren't you a clever little puppy.

inb4 the same people who whine that reflex is gonna be a cpm clone whine that reborn is not a ql clone(if)

2l8

Those people would be logically consistent.

nothing new or original

wow, cpma port

such excitement

will have less players than warsow

Please try lots and lots of different physics variations.

Jump height 85/125/333
Strafe jump/bunnyhop
vq3 with a very short slidecrouch or slideturn that makes a noise would be nice to try.

The only air control that I can put up with and really enjoy moving around in is qw. Just feels so nice, and getting high speed feels more rewarding than it does in cpm.

For me:
qw physics with stair physics from ql and ql weapon switch time. And make the weapons fucking powerful but difficult to use. Make it so you can punish someone out of position. A weapon fire delay would be great, 20 to 30 ms built in or so.

As for weapons and such; I would love to have a gun similar to the gauss gun in hl1, where there is no health penalty for a speed boost. Judging from what Garpy got up to, controlling that weapon gave you the map in HL1 deathmatch. Something similar in concept would be wonderful to try out.

And that level editor looks swish too

Great work/progress, really hope you keep it up, most looking forward to seeing more :-]

#playmorevanilla

www.playmorevanilla.org

omg i clicked

that was a bit foolish of you, but because you clicked you have my plus!

Just looks like another promode/warsaw/PK type thing, those games never take off cos the movement is too much for most people and its clear to see that is what the intention is.

It'll be the same handful of people playing it that play the existing games. which will just dilute the communities even more while not attracting anyone new.

You guys spend years reinventing the same games as the one you had 10 years ago, its quite funny. Then wonder why your player bases decrease and you're still wanting something new.

I at least want to see a vq3 variant rather than a cpm-style type of movement mode

cpm movement? nope.

Air control is great for new player, it makes you run the map smoothly with little skill or map knowledge, while offering a lot of depth for advanced player.
QW is the ultimate quake physic

New players should be on a server with basic movement. No strafe jumps, air control or bunnyhopping. Let them learn the maps and the weapons first and then they can progress to a server with strafe jumps and the option of progressing onto other movement modes if they want to.

Polished tutorials should be the primer for the actual game. Separating players based on server skill sets won't do any good, as in no physics on some and full features on others. A good matchmaking system should be in place to settle the learning curve.

Haters of yhe cpm im disapointed, personally like vq3/ql more and would rather have it in the standard game, but wity double jumps q2 style. Cpm is fun once in a while but duels just turn into +fwd who can hit more and spawn frag more thats why i would rather see a vq3 /ql game more tactical.( still needs double jump tho)

same here dawg

dear creators
please work hard on beside game content, all the well designed hubs, good lore (maybe a lore describing maps? models and stuff) - it has to be there, please make a new gen FPS not just another old-fashioned one

also
matchmaking
tdm soloqueue, duoqueue (ranked and unranked)

ladders (leagues) like diamond, silver, gold, potat league...

just copy LoL, Dota, SC2 and make it work into fps, please

also focus on simple but logical design of everything, don't make it random as fuck as it is now in fpses, either make maps in like one color tone or explain it in lore why this map looks like forest and this one is futuristic, that really matters, it has to be COMPACT

i know i'm talking about kind of late phase of designing a game but keep all these in mind while creating basics

without that you're fucked and stuck with the same, old, boring community that never grows, you have to make it perfect to succed, and don't release shit when it's not ready, make early beta, but close it to minimal number of people
if you will release it not done completely you'll get a lot of flame everywhere and low scores in reviews, ppl will get distracted

you've got to target more ppl than all the "hardcore pro players from ET, UT, Quake "

btw. CPM movement is good as fuck, i can imagine how impressive it would be for those cs campers to see on the main page of twitch when someone moves so fast, rocks all the map, does flick shots and stuff :) also it's not that hard to learn CPM, i mean once you get it, it's easy then

last point is true. I once had a friend look over my shoulder while I was just messing around a bit by myself on cpm22 and he basically creamed himself.

"ladders (leagues) like diamond, silver, gold, potat league... "

Yes please

I want to build map in-game too!

If I saw this video without a title, I would think its CPMA. Hoped for something unique and original.

it's almost like you haven't read any of the comments

Not sure which comment I should reply to so I'll just do this here.

Here's the thing about QW-like movement models. They're extremely fun to watch when they're being played by competent players. I mean, fuck, some of the best entertainment I've had watching Quake was doing regular speccing sessions of CPM demos from challenge.tv. However, they're even more extremely unintuitive, annoying, aggravating, frustrating, FUCKING MADDENING to learn, train and play to people with little talent for doing so (i.e 99% of people, and yes I did pull that number out of my dirty arsehole. I do believe it is fairly accurate, though.). This stuff just won't appeal to Joe Gamer. I'm a shitty player in general, I dabbled in CPM and QW, and while I love those games to death I could never get into them fully because of how fucking hard it is to be just bad at them, as opposed to being atrociously horrible.

Fluidity does equal fun. But only to the tiny percent of people that are talented enough to take advantage of it. Watch rat or Vo0 fly around a map like a champ. It's beautiful. Then watch a random noob fly face-first into walls like a crackhead hobo that just had his rundown shopping cart full of used syringes and decomposing corpses stolen and is stumbling down an alleyway covered with slippery diarrhoea and used condoms chasing a hallucinated anthropomorphic cactus with the face of Kurt Russel that is telling him to go towards the light. That hobo? That is the the summary of the experience most people will have with this movement model.

lolz for description

Bravo!

Good idea of a game but i think this won't attract newer and casual players so it's either the player base of this game gradually decrease or stay stagnant in the next few years.

edit:
on second thought if this game offers new weapons, has eye candy graphics, new game modes, good promotion but retaining the "mod"-able tradition of the arena shooters then we have something to talk about. (also the game must have a bad-ass announcer)

why making a new cpma which will have aprox 5-10 people while there is a cpma with 10-20 ppl?

this thread giving me cancer. ciao

pull up your pants fegget : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXUli6VQLNs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjZfVcFJnO8&am...5iymtOB1Z6

i've said this a billion times here: game needs a FUN team oriented game mode that is suitable for pub!

the best that comes to mind is stopwatch(ET)/assault(UT). score doesn't matter in those modes. there's only one direction of progressing: capturing the objectives!

borrow some elements from MOBAs.. lanes, AI helpers and you have something

also: easy movement for new players. make so that a decent average speed can be achieved easily, but also leave room for better movement speed with proper techniques.. but make the difference less drastic between easy movement and skilled optimized movement overall.

Being able to edit maps from ingame looks awesome.

I agree with some other people here that the key to attracting new players is probably finding a good team oriented gamemode for public play. Not too many gamemodes though, even though I like that personally, it just tends to split the community. Pick one or a couple of team gamemodes and focus on making it awesome imo.

Also I think you should primarily focus on making the game awesome, many games focus too much on balancing this and that(=boring) in my opinion. There needs to be awesome weapons that you can pull off HOLY SHIT moments with etc.



Personally I've thought about a game where the teammode has different classes like say TF2. One class with CPM movement and others could have movement from UT2k4, QL, Quake 4, UT99, QW, CS, CoD, CPM + UT dodge, a stealth class, a fast class that can climb on walls/ceilings(aliens), some more noob-friendly classes.

New players could pick the classes with easier movement to begin with and they would be more powerful in other ways to compensate for slow movement. The CS class could naturally have grenades and powerful projectile weapons with recoil control f.ex and do extra damage with headshots :). The fast class that can climb on walls/ceilings could have powerful weapons but only close range etc.

Pretty much everyone would be familiar with atleast one type of movement in the game that they could start with and try other movement types later. Noone would master all classes but you could be really good at a few of them. Even master race Quakers/UT players would have classes that appealed to their twisted desires.

Interesting idea of having classes who have different movement types.

I like cpm movement but lets be honest it's very niche and only appeals to die hard fans. The game will most likely last about as long as Warsow.

CU all in CS:GO

If you're going to have movement that seems to be pretty much a clone of CPM at this point, I really hope you make things like stairjumping and the teleporter doublejump boost thing much, much easier. Noobs are never going to figure that stuff out. Stairs in Q3 are just plain annoying as far as jumping goes, anyway.

They made movement in QL a lot easier, especially with the huge step height, easy stairs, etc. and you don't see anyone complaining.

In Warsow they added "complexity" to the movement with dash and walljump and all it actually does is make moving around the map too easy. You literally can't trap an opponent so you end up just chasing eachother or rushing with rockets. I think that's a huge problem with fast movement like this: the lesser player ends up sitting there watching the opponent fly in circles around them with no hope of catching them and it's just plain not fun.

Air control in Source engine games like CS:GO and TF2 give nice utility to the movement since you're not going that fast. It helps to fall on ledges, etc. These games also prove that even players that aren't omgsopro Quake players can understand air control and use it well. I just hope you can find a nice middle ground that everyone can enjoy.

this

btw. dont you think that with good matchmaking there is no problem with cpm movement? newbies will no care about it and just play. and Pros will be pros.

that air control.... pretty much gonna be quidditch with guns. i will most likely still play it

LOL

I see there's a Reflex subforum but

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&forum=57

just shows the same thing as "All forums". Is it because it's empty? If so, move this thread there!

Aircontrol: you had to ruin it

this is why we can't have nice things

Because of the Reason

at the end of the day, one of these two communities is gonna be very happy, and the other one very upset. keen to see who's going to be having a cry at the end of this

if you're talking about reborn (vq3 roots) vs reflex (cpm roots) I think it's either way positive for the DM scene that two promising projects are trying to port the genre to better platforms, the "race" itself will cause discussions and people will just talk about their development.

It's obviously a step forward like it happened in other games, you also have LOL/DOTA or CS/COD and stuff like that, I don't think there's nothing wrong about any of the gameplays as long as people are interested in them inside the genre, compared to some modern games, cpm or ql gameplay just shits on their mechanics.
Matter of time, stop hating.

i'm not hating, but i just severely doubt that both parties will be happy with the end result. personally, i'll support all of newborns decisions, but that's just me.

CPM movement is just "too much"... One of the main reasons why deathmatch games not popular anymore is that you need to spend literally weeks if not months of netto playtime just to learn the movement (and not get outright destroyed just bc your opponent is faster).

Even VQ3 / QL movement is hard enough. Its pretty sad to say, but we are at an era where games need to be _easy_ to have ppl picking it up. I know the die-hards will be always like "l2p crying noob", but the fact is if we want a thriving DM game, it needs to be a lot more simple than QL, at least on the mechanics side. It does not mean the game needs to be COD-like simple, but at least anyone wishes to get involved shouldnt be made feeling like facing an impossible task since after 10-20 hours of play they still get stuck in every corner / cant perform a bunnyjump 5 times in a row.

I think the best kind of movement would be something similiar to Painkiller / Xonotic (those are pretty simple) in terms of mechanics, but with the pace of VQ/QL or even a tad slower...

Warsow has nice movement: bunny-hopping with acceleration without having to strafe + autohop. Just hold your jump button and steer with mouse.

warsow= Nerf Arena 2.0

It's at least third time you make that joke and it has no point as reply to my post. I am talking about movement, not sounds or visuals.

It's still the Quake engine strafing and bunnyhopping movement model present in, for instance PQL, for the most part.

As such, holding W and steering with the mouse will not gain you speed. It's still the W+A / W+D with mouse input or A / D with mouse input to build speed; W + mouse only preserves speed around larger corners.

There are a few more intricacies, especially with the two movement models present in the game.

with proper matchmaking its not a problem imo, noob will play agains other noob and pro vs pro etc.

>>> we are at an era where games need to be _easy_ to have ppl picking it up

I disagree. Difficulty has nothing to do with it.
All you need is enough players so that you can find somebody of your skill to play with. (Good matchmaking is not enough if you do not have enough players.)
Which is a chicken and egg problem of course.

(Easy game = no challenge = boring. Dota2 is not an easy game to pick up if it's the first time you want to play a game like that.)

games need to be _easy_ to have ppl picking it up

have you ever played micro intense starcraft 2 matches? or an sc2 at all. man that game is hard, even though it's much easier to play than bw and it is still popular as hell.

It's still easy as hell to pick up. We all have played an RTS at one point in our lives; SC2 is as standard as they get- it doesn't hinge around a specific gimmick, nor has some obscure mechanic that takes weeks to get remotely good at.

When it comes to air control in FPS, especially to the extent of CPM, that's when the new player is faced with an obscure mechanic that takes weeks to even scratch the surface. A newcomer won't figure out the cpm3a stairjump on their own, especially after being torn apart by a vet, and in turn, demotivated to the point of simply not bothering to invest any more time in the game.

Hmm I dont see the point in making a game that looks exactly like QL/Warsow/Xonotic? :(

what if this was actually reborn under a different name so 2gd could see our opinions on his progress thus far without revealing anything??

he isn't stupid - cpm movement? yeeeeeeee

- Focus on teammodes, it's the only way to get new guys in, duel = 1v1 anxiety (the same problem as in SC2).
My bet would be on something ctf-like where you can actually run around, shoot and don't give a fuck what's going on.
Just look at QL history, CTFs and FFAs were always the most frequent choice for newcomers. Yeah there are always a few packed CA servers but in CA you see almost exclusively old Quakers. It's CTF where noobs are born.
- I believe that a modern matchmaking is a must. It's so great to launch dota, pick a gamemode and click go! Though I wouldn't underestimate the traditional approach with user-hosted servers, it allows people for social interaction.

In the end it doesn't really matter if it's super-demanding cpm or less demanding vq3/vql - both are almost equally out of scope for lazy newcomers. And unless you want to make it as modern as CoD(you don't) it wont make any difference. You have to find other features to spread it worldwide.

Btw. jumping with aircontrol is actually easier then trying to strafe jump (aka QL) though it's harder to master and much more rewarding, eventually.
Tech video is great!

We've got all of that covered ;)

People taking the video too literally!

It looks like a CPM clone. Maybe they were going for something else.. But it's too subtle if f they are!

It's to show the engine... nothing more.

Which part of it? The bit that is very square place holder textures? Or the bit that is CPM movement? Maybe the mapping part, which would be interesting, however most people don't care about creating our even playing third party stuff.

So if it's not any of those what is the point? You can say you have an engine? Yay?

Are we able to assume that movement will look nothing like the video?

We arn't to assume anything. It's a pre alpha tech demo to show they have an engine thats looks competent.

people who think cpm movement is harder to learn are just clueless.

to someone with absolutely no experience in strafing or anything of this sorts is just as hard to learn vq3 movement as it is cpm.

and im sure to someone seeing both movements for the first time, he would like cpm more as it is beautiful in its fluidity. anyone can appreciate its beauty and sigh at the rigidness and clumsiness of vq3

people who cry about it are just used to it just like people cryed and only played dm6.

Also casuals generally don't care a lot about movement, skill, configs, learning curve, they just want to play, take some frags, win sometime.

And imo good matchmaking is solution here.

Damn, I'm noob in every quake game and don't care about it. imo cpma is more fun btw.

I love cpm movement. If pql was an exact copy of cpm I personally would never want to play vql anymore.

way to shoot the project in the foot using an outmoded un-original physics model, could have at least attempted a blend of quake physics models to create something semi unique that doesn't alienate and polarise the incipient community before the project is even released.

could have at least attempted a blend of quake physics

that's exactly what cpm is

also it's fucking pre-alpha

I'd say that cpm doesn't really make much use of the air acceleration mechanics of qw and just allows air control. pql has more air accel from turning and allows bunnyhopping. a new system is at least half original design really needs to be implemented though.

Well I think the air accel in cpm is intentionally less than in qw because it would render strafejumping useless. But I don't agree that there's a need for a new design, I think reflex should carry on the cpm idea and just adopt even more mechanics from different games because an original design is not as easy when seemingly everything has been done.

Topic that never ends)) Imo it isn't that crucial how difficult the movement is... You may attract people by graphics and making it easy to run around... but actually it may gravitate to inbetween game that will attract noobs for a short period of time and leave old fags with their qw, cpm and ql... Let it be a niche game - that has some flavour and even financial segment ... and always had - quakers were always respected... in our inet cafes a good player always had some people watching from behind... then all of them tried to play but failed. So it attracts by difficulty and challenge which are rare nowadays but demotivates with lack of facilities. So it seems far more important to:
1. Make fun easy mods to erect noob's first experience - coop v bots modes, easy multiplayer modes, single player campaign
2. Skillmatch ppl in duels, ca's... eloes, ladders, noob tourneys and other matchmaking shits
3. Ingame commutication platform. I mean not irc, not like ql chat but more like old Battle net chat... Public rooms - where ppl get together and along with invite to a clan spam, call out's for a 1v1, cursing, porn links and gtv spam get some atmosphere of presence and possibitity to ask something and get an answer - it's important for no casual game.... then spawnable private rooms and individual messages.
4. Huge statistics block - which helps a person to find some progress in his game even if he loses - again eloes, graphs, acc's whatever - like in stock trading ...so many parameters that person thinks that he's got some success or atleast the math expectation of progress isn't that bad :) and some material to compare with others
5. Other social stuff - profiles, friends, clans, guilds, sects, ingame tv for tourney streams...
Again - no need to make a game more casual - QL, QW, CPM, Q4 (doubt ^^) - are ok with proper environment.

Ye I know - everything was already said, let it be like one more vote in a poll

"...Battle net chat... Public rooms"
This would be awesome! IIRC battlenet was actually implemented with irc.

If there would be a way to re-create QW 4on4 in this I would be pretty happy, because in my opinion after all my study of all the Quakes and different modes, it's still FAR AND AWAY the best TDM type mode in all of FPS. Probably the best team type mode in any FPS with more than 2 players. It did so many things right, I mean, if people would want to read it I could create an article (I'll make my best use of brevity, promise) that explains all the dynamics and why it is so incredible for players and spectators as I imagine many people have never tried it or it's too much of an investment to delve into it themselves.

Only issue with that is that they would need completely seperate balancing.

Items in QW are alot more powerful then their QL/Q3 counterparts which make map zoning alot more powerful and necessary.

Only idea outside of two seperate balance schemes is to have more weapons or powerups around the maps.
Mabey have powerups be capture points to force teamplay, make people go in twos etc.

If anything, go ahead and create the article. A little bit of education goes a long way. :)

"Only issue with that is that they would need completely seperate balancing."

This is true, honestly I think we're at a point where having different rule sets for different modes is the best way to reach the best gameplay overall.

This is something I've always found quite weird. So one of the reasons I wanted to learn as many games as in depth as I could in FPS was to gain as much insight/perspective as possible with which to understand game dynamics;effectively freeing myself from looking at it in one way.

Something that became painfully clear very early on is that, every game has standardised rule sets across different modes which results in sub-optimal gameplay design as the best rule set for 1v1 can't be the best rule set for 4v4.

An easy example here is that in 4v4 in QW is hands down the best (I want to keep this post short so I won't elaborate in detail why, I can write the article as you suggest). But if you take QW and go to duel, okay it can work, but it's much inferior to QuakeLive duel which is the richest 1v1 game that we have.

One key difference between these two games is the armour system (this is just one example, it's not quite as simple as this). In QuakeLive duel it decays after 100/100 and is generally weaker than in QuakeWorld, this is one of the biggest and most impactful differences that allows the gameplay to be much better in QL duel, but hurts 4v4 in QL massively.

So my thought process is following the objective that we want to create the best possible game play in every mode for players and spectators. The only way to achieve that, as evidence suggests, is separate rule sets.

edit: something I'll add to this is of course there'd be issues here in making things more complex for new comers, but I believe if it's done well, quality of gameplay never need be sacrificed in the face of difficulty. There is always an effective method to mitigate difficulty of gameplay!

How do you define 'ruleset'? If it doesn't include movement, I think there is no reason it can't be changed between gametypes. Perhaps more types of armors can be added as well, or regeneration or something like that.

I'm no developer so I should be careful here but in my personal definition I would include movement. Just like in CPMA there was the ability to change the rule sets to VQ3 or CPM. I'd like to hazard a more technical definition but again- I'm no developer. I think I'd butcher it :).

The way developers might define things, often times butcher the real world meanings of things. For example, to a developer, any non-obvious correlation is a potential separable logic path with a name. So it's best operate in observable world, and you should describe it as you see it, and why. Anyway, I understand why certain rules in TDM would be different than in Duel, but given vq3 movement, why isn't it possible to optimize TDM to be as good as QW? My guess (until I read you column, I'm sure) is that it's impossible to replicate, because we need overpowering strong LG/RL, etc. That would be, indeed, like a separate (clone) of QW. But I don't think it's the only great TDM game. I actually quite liked Q2 tdm as well :)

It seems obvious.

Qw tdm teams attack weapons slowly.

Ql duel players stack armor/health slowly.

Both are reasonably unique in these regards.

Of course people would want to read it!

Your qw you tube videos got me reinterested in quake. I was playing bf3 at the time. With out ever having played qwtdm I agree with you.

The lack of weapons is the standout. When it takes 2+ minutes to get 4 player s weapons each individual pickup becomes more important.

However I disagree about the getting it right - it had to be a fluke

It was DEFINITELY a complete fluke with qw tdm :). But that can be said for Brood War, CS 1.6 and OSP as well!

never really played qw much, but i appreciated streams by sassa and thelike.

what i really like about qw tdm and what stood out for me, was the importance of the first weapon pickups. like, it is a really huge deal which team gets ahold of the first rocket launcher. and even if he dies, it is still important to know if someone gets it afterwards, and who that is.

But isn't it a direct result from weapons being sooo damn powerful while there are so few weapons on the map?

I have always thought that the worst part of ql.tdm was spawning with useful weapon / too many HPs (hi dm20).

And duel shouldn't be the priority.

People who have no actual CPM experience should stop stigmatizing the mod. It's NOT all about the movement. Players with a slow braingame like gellehsak, kwong etc. can dominate the game just by walking around the map, controlling items and playing defensively. Just because CPM fragmovies (evidently) show players flying around the map flickrailing every corner doesn't mean all matches are played out that way. Too bad CPM is portrayed like this.

What in the actual flying fuck. Is ESR full of retards and circle jerks?

Let's be real here. Gellehsak and Kwong do not have 'slow braingames'. Kwong is a positional rocket spammer and expert timer with a PhD in mental deviation. Gellehsak merely adapts to the player he is playing against. Most of which are mostly unsuspecting newcomers. He is a washed up E-sport player who couldn't keep his girl in check and as a result, was forced to get a job in order to provide for child support. Kwong plays purely to cause rage in team games and use newer teammates as cannon fodder to incite panic (of which is very efficient at maintaining objectivity). There's a reason why both are still playing CPM.

This is the community this game is targeting. No one thinks these people won't dominate Reflex's community? Come on. Check the IRC channel. Who's in there? People from #uscpmpickup, #promode and #cpmpickup and hardly a soul from #quakelive I bet. I'll put $100 on it.

No grown man truly gives a fuck about games. Games don't pay bills. If you need an example look at arQon. Where was he when QuakeLive was going on? That's who Quakelive was literally depending on. PQL? It's a joke. The air control is faster. Literally everything is faster than CPM in order to make it accessible.

There's a point in your life when you realize, damn, I gotta get the fuck up and work. I have to earn money. How? Well, A) I can steal and beg off the streets or B) I can get the fuck up and get a job or C) I can create something new and build capital. No amount of external validation will compare to your internal. You can quote me on that.

REFLEX is attempting to be C. But in all actuality it's B. It's recreating (I don't know how many times I have to say this) games that have LONG and GONE in hopes of capturing the same demographic of players, (anyone that can pick up a mouse/keyboard to people who won't let sleeping dogs lie) in a new era where everything is about looks.

Fuck the clock. The clock literally doesn't matter. You might be able to convince a couple people that they don't need a service that was originally provided back in 1996 but I and many others find even the suggestion skeptical. Additions need to be made, not subtractions. New ideas flushed out. Newborn stated himself he was on the CPMA Dev team. So what in gods name do you think influenced him? This is his chance to make CPMA into his idea of what it should have been. Read between the lines people.

I implore the Reflex Dev team to create a Kickstarter. Front it with your own money. It will literally speak for itself.

tldr; I need a job so I can stop wasting my time on ESR.

You're that butthurt you have to follow my posts? So you're telling me I didn't fuck you hard enough and now you want more?

Here's a tip you can use for the rest of your life: stop beta-orbiting for imaginary high fives. Women don't like pussies, if they did they would fuck each other.

Or maybe you want my D in your A while I assimilate your mother? ;)

This is just amazing

HONKS HONKS HONKS

Huh

The problem is it is yet another quake clone. Dozens of them already and every single one failed, if released.

I have this radical idea: wait for the project to finish before judging it.

its all about marketing.

dota2 / 500.000 online player rightnow, even not a clone, its pure copy with "new engine" "steam" "new interface" etc. and i think "steam" part is a most important one of marketing side.
all new bf cod series ez copy versions. have million players just for new look, stat etc.
with new technical features making cpma clone its not a bad idea

the games you mentioned always had a core following that isnt 17 players

StarCraft 2 is based on a game made in 1997, who's competitive scene (outside of a single city) more-or-less died by 2006. The vast majority of the fellows who play (or played) StarCraft 2 multiplayer are people who had never played an RTS game before.

Most people don't even know the difference between Quake and Unreal, other than that they're 'old fps games where you jump around a lot and have crazy weapons'.

If the Reflex team could find a few more wealthy, nostalgic Russians to help fund advertising, I have no doubt that this project would be a success. All you'd have to do from there is wave Cooller around.

rite, but arena fps had chances with pk, q4 and ql since quake3 died. would seem unreasonable to think yet another quake-like fps would have success

also blizzard games always sell

I agree with what you are saying - with dota it's worth mentioning that the basic mechanics of the game are extremely simple - the learning curve comes from and complexity come from the interaction between players/heroes. Quake and reflex it seems require you to master the built in physics system before you can even attempt to play the game properly. I can't help but feel that this approach will restrict the player base considerably. It really seems like the quake scene is unwilling to learn from the mistakes of the past and lessons from other successful projects, and instead, they are constantly blaming gamers when they don't show interest...

I'm really hoping for some new fast paced fps etc, but it's got to be actually new, not just the same old microwaved Quake/cpm etc...

this game is the same shit as all these new fps games.

young player won't start to play this kind of games. the kids want to buy skins like in lol to boost their coolness factor. it's impossible to develop a game without these feature. You better should start playing lol and stop discuss about a dead born game.

TBH shooapoopmania had a pretty nice aproach to what i think a faster fps should evolve into, it has some nice features and ideas tho i think movement wise its bad, cpm with shootmania concept would be nice.

The concept of capture the points and 3v3s was pretty nice also no armors or weapons etc was also nice, tho this should be a gametype like CA.

Also this kind of "idea" ( shootmania concept with CPMA Movement) would allow like caracter customisation and hats and shits since theres only one model and a few weapons, idk .

my 2 cents after too many drinks in xmas :D

Not sure if drunk troll or stupid drunk.

The skill a fast paced game takes should be enough. Having to learn a complex mechanical skill on top of that is just punishment.

Strafe/bunny/circle jumping is a completely arcane concept to anyone new to the game. And it creates a huge entry barrier that they have to spend weeks learning before they can even start to really play the game.

Look at how many recent CPMA frag videos have tens or even hundreds of thousands of views and then look at how empty CPMA is now and has always been. How many people do you think saw one of those frag videos, wanted to try out the game, then quit after they struggled to move around a map and realized how much work it was? Outside people who watch those videos are impressed by the combat skill and general speed of the game, not by perfectly angled circle double stair jumps that they can't even see.

My idea anyway is a sprint key that would increase your speed indefinitely at the same rate strafe/bunny would. You could have it work interchangeably with strafe/bunny so that you could switch between the two or just unbind the key itself.

>make a quake style game without what makes quake good
Nope

A huge initial learning curve for the most fundamental skill and defining aspect of the game is what makes Quake good?

If you could have a game as fast as CPMA with the same jumps possible, and without the huge learning curve, why would you not want that?

Because as it is now, players can distinguish themselves from the median by how fast they move and by what jumps they can make. You can see the initial learning curve as a design problem, but your proposed solution would obliterate the skill gap entirely.

We aren't talking about defrag. There are a dozen other skills that are important and distinguishing from other players like meta-game, aim, timing, dodging, and positioning. Movement is so fundamental that none of the those skills work without it.

People should be able to just pick up the game and not be handicapped because they didn't sink time into watching tutorials or reading theory and then training offline.

Limiting the game to those are patient enough to both spend the time learning it and getting kicked around by those who've already mastered will kill the overall skill range because there will be less people playing the game.

I'm not against things like circle/double trick jumps, which could still fit with my idea, I just think point A to point B strafe/bunnying could be redone.

You're looking at it from just one end of the spectrum. Look at it from the other side. What's the point of being able to strafe like w3sp if holding a button will get you the same result? You should try to come up with a solution that eases the learning curve for new players, without sacrificing the height of the skill ceiling.

Personally I think wsw did it pretty well (I think autohop applying to double jumps is pretty retarded but w/e). New players can just press dash, hold jump and accelerate, but at the same time, you could probably spend months playing race in warsow and still learn something new every day.

Because it would be fucking boring. Are you even serious

Autohop like wsw would be a better solution.

It works quite well too. New players were moving decently recently in Australia after picking the game up from cs, cod, bf, etc.

If it's too easy, cap it in some way so manual movement is always better. This way new players get a feel of the game without the investment.

Rage on.

it just looks like Q3 with the skins removed. only difference was the platform painting...will that be in proper matches?

did 2bd say if they planned to release the game for free? if not then did they get approval to steal everyones maps for the game to be released for profit?

Reflex and Reborn are different games, so 2gd won't be announcing anything about our pricing.

The editor will be available on any server that it enabled but it will default to disabled for obvious reasons.

We're working on art at the moment but people wanted to see the game, so we showed it to them.

And yes, we have permission to use CPM3, so we're not "stealing" anything.

oh yea, should have known 2bd was full of lies

rflx will be free?

b2p if i remember correctly

oh yea, think i remember him saying "pay once"

That's right. Cheap, but not free.

Are we to assume that you don't have any competant mappers since a remake is going to ship with it?

new maps are better than old, there is no such thing as the best map.

inbefore we have permissions does not mean it will make the cut.

You aren't to assume anything, because the game is pre-alpha...

The main reason CPM3 is in there is so when we're testing movement and gameplay, we have a known map.

This means that we can study how the changes affect play in an arena where players know the jumps, runs, item locations, angles and strategy. This is far more useful than watching a couple of people wander around a map confused, only picking up weapons when they happen to wander past them.

When we've tested and confirmed more weapons and mechanics, we'll be focusing on new maps. Until then, it's going to be difficult to design a good map simply because mappers won't know what players will be firing.

The plan is to ship both old and new maps though.

Anyway, with the editing tools and support we have planned, we would end up with a lot of new maps very quickly, even if we for some reason decided to ship only remakes.

http://mdv.quake.hu/pub/pm.jpg

i only wanted to add here, that the movement has to be unique and traditional at the same time, and of course it has to be noobfriendly at some point, and good luck with the project.