fuck yourself, cripple arena newb.

before insulting me, take like 10-15mn the read what i've wrote about dm13.

i think that i provided some good arguments.

it was a good map when the rail did 100dmg

it was a good map when the rail did 100dmg

i'm not talking about what i wrote in this thread.

i provided you a link to another thread replies

no FUCK you RETARD, you can't even tell the difference between dm13 and ztn. Fuck OFF

what are you talking about ?

wtf ofc i can tell the difference

the difference is in the eye of the beholder

0/10

stop making shit threads.

dm13 has and is still providing some of the most tactical and thoughtful matches out of every other map in the standard pool. Sure it seems like a lot of +back and nothing behind it but once you actually try to analyze the matches you see on it you almost certainly will find a level of depth in them that you won't see on any other map.

i disagree with you :

http://www.esreality.com/post/2490191/re-face...pid2488485
http://www.esreality.com/post/2490191/re-face...pid2489139

For some reason I can't open those two. Whatever was in there is of no real importance anyway.

You can disagree with me that's totally fine, I just stated my own opinion which is based on watching dozens of amazing dm13 games and playing the map several hundred times. It is the most challenging map to play for me (or was since I am not playing QL or Q3 at the moment) and way more fun than ztn for example (not saying the map is bad, just I enjoy dm13 more).

You asked what's the point with dm13 so that is my point for you, have a nice day.

have a nice day too man.

btw, the link i gave above are 404error.

just look at the link i gave at the first post of the thread (#0) http://www.esreality.com/post/2490715/re-dhw-...pid2490219

at the end of the reply you'll find 2 links, they are the same links i tried to give you there as a reply

Great linking skills. ;)

0/10

stop making shit threads.

Your troll is weak..

It's about time they took the rail out of dm13, it cripples the map.

or make it 100dmg again. heartless thinks dm13 was fine when rail still did 100dmg.

Cooller can pick up a railgun on dm13.

i heard it's in the lava, way down there, even if u have 200/200 u barely see it

You'll have to try harder to get as much attention as Zhu is getting lately. Try making some emo videos or getting banned, that would help.

zhu has set the bar too high

I may be bad at it but I really like dm6.

:D

its a trap and waylay map which is totally balanced in itself and thus awesome. unlike the more fact-paced map the player out of control has higher chances to pick the moment of confrontation himself + he is able to get information about both major items without risking too much himself.
it is not possible on dm13 to simply overcome your opponent by straight rushing with lg unless he chooses to accept that challenge. players that prefer tactical plays with rockets can actually play the map in a way that allows them to dodge centermap entirely unless they are save to do so.

like it or not, the map is one of the very few that favours playstyles other than "just hitscan better than the other guy". if you are smart enough to read your opponents moves and thus not get locked down you can successfully defend yourself out of control. and even if he tricks you and you die still theres little chance that you get caught in a chain of spawnkills or useless deaths until by lucky hits the control shifts again..

tldr: you prolly just dun like it because brain wins over aim on dm13 :F

nice post man! very appreciated, at least you didn't insult or troll me.

you actually provided some good arguments.

tldr: you prolly just dun like it because brain wins over aim on dm13 :F

if for you brain = +back with rockets or mindless +forward/push with plasma, then yeah dm13 is a brain map.

are you one of those that say that +back rail = brain ?

no, i am one of those that says brain = beeing able to shift the itemcontrol not by simply hitting better, but by timing, positioning and awareness (what your opponent does).
+back rocket is a valid move when someone is stupidly +forward lg and trying to enforce a kill just by relying on his bigger stack. if the +forward guy dies on dm13 due to that attempt it is not because the +back guy is a coward.. its because the +forward player didnt show enough brain to come up with a better solution to get the kill.

if you see high level plays on dm13 you will recognize 3 possible "smart" ways to get a kill. the first is a waylay - beeing in control, cutting of the path between both yellows by beeing in a unusual position in between item respawns.
the second is a trap - leaving an item up as a bait and using superior aim to punish your opponent when he goes for it (you see that often done at mega or at red teleexit)
the last is offensive itemcontrol - leaving the red up and getting the yellows instead. it makes your opponent choose between running around stackless or taking extreme risks

+back shooting isnt a display of brain.. but beeing able to get frags that way is a display of nobrain of your enemy.
so dm13 for me is a brainmap because the guy in control has to show atleast as much brain as the guy out of control.

DM13 is the only map left which is balanced.

All those +b lowsens railwank maps left in poll and now you want to remove this..

Don't be a dumbass

t7 is balanced

dm13 is rockets heavy

and also +back

and it's fucking slow

-back +hide

Comparing +b rail lowsens distance rail wank with a heavy rocket game. :D

Try to stand on the same floor level wanking with direct rockets from distance ! :D GL!

too much rocket heavy is as bad as too much rail heavy.

or at least change the mappool so that it has 1 shaft heavy map, 1 rail heavy map, and 1 rocket heavy map. But don't make them TOO MUCH about only 1 weapon.

And that's why you want to take a rocket heavy map away, and leave rail maps on?

the current rail maps aren't really rail heavy

except silence maybe

"k"

Can't reason with crazy

yeah you give up cause you know that i know better than you

I would watch a duel on any map. : D

Which were the other balanced maps which are out of play now?

In QL? Prob none. With Q3 spawnsystem? a whole other story.

QL always favour wank. sadface story bro.

It's my favorite map in the pool. Easy to learn, hard to master.

how long have you been playing quake ?

did you start in 2010 ?

because i started to get interested by quake in 2002. And started to practice hard in 2004.

i also watched A FUCKING LOT of demos of fatal1ty, daler, b100.death, zero4, ztrider, blue, unkind and so on, when dm13 was in the duel mappool aswell.

the current dm13 is not exactly like the dm13 that we played in 2000-2002, but still very close to it.

current dm13 is rockets/traps heavy. And is fucking slow and lame (cause people can avoid the shaft battle in the top middle of the map as much as they want).

people keep saying that dm13 is balanced, but it's untrue.

ql isnt exactly the same game as q3.

and u keep talking bs.

"cause people can avoid the shaft battle in the top middle of the map as much as they want"

So this is where the butthurt started. No alltime lg on a flat plane. :>

TRU CPM3A $$$$$$$

im still waiting for my demo/VOD :-)

I never understood the love for ztn and aero. Dm6 and dm13 forever.

So do you want to fuck a quake map?

Who doesn't?

In soviet russia, quake maps fuck you.

btw guys, i gave you a link above at #0 to a post in the news post "dreamhack map pool"

in this reply you will find 2 links, click on them ! I basically explain why i don't like dm13

someone post their favourite DM13 game

Here!

length does not a good game make

Nah, this is a real dm13 game.

btw, I'm sorry if you actually watched it :D I just wanted to show another side of dm13.

HEARTL3SSSSSS, every map that Evil plays is LG-heavy, every map k1llsen plays is railheavy. It's all player's preference. DM13 is a great map not because of it's lack of rail, but because of the level design, placement of the items and the way you can play it.

A map that invites you to sacrifice 50-100 hp to gain a positional advantage and not an item is a map that invites for an aggressive game, if you ask me. You can find slow, dull and defensive games on any map, just as you can find crazy action packed fragfests on any.

gg

Hearing Joe and 2gd together makes me sad :(

pretty boring game, cypher being too defensive, didnt chalenge for any big items, so its 10 minutes of watching cooller pickup up items

No and yes. It is truly impressive how they played the map. Was the most entertaining no-frag game I've seen.

killsen played like a little bitch. i thought it was pretty weak

Yeah? Because pavel didn't retreat when he had clear stack advantage and got k1llsen cornered on low health? Yes, he did. They both played ultra careful which shows how important the game was.

ok, they both played like little bitches then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEepQwj7YB4

Man, people will take you seriously if you do something in a duel. Let's say 1800 + ELO will be a good start.
Meanwhile, your qlranks profile makes me laugh: http://www.qlranks.com/duel/player/He4rTL3sS

i was above 1800 elo once. life was so good then

Doesn't count when farming it. More than half of his matches are on eye to eye and his least played map lost world (0.37%)

Even if he farms ELO it's a good thing, because he will learn how hard duel really is. Of course, if he farms only on "Eye to Eye", it would be crazy.

Didn't bother reading it.

tl;dr: fu

Also lol@Thunderstuck.

Callvote map (mental)asylum

Callvote teamsize 1

He4rtl3ss entered the game.

look at the rapha v evil game on dm13 at qcon. here you have a player out of control for the vast majority of the game and coming out with the win. while this is rapha it's still a characteristic of dm13 that makes it good to spectate.

That was a masterclass, great game

QL needs more maps like dm13 actually

DM1337

lol plussed

lol thanked

I agree, the corridors are way too small. Its a map that's about walking around and spamming RL. A map that's very forgiving for noobs.

whats ur elo?

best noob stomps happen on dm13, because new players have literally NO IDEA how to play it

Stopped reading at: ''it was a good map when the rail did 100dmg''

Well he's right tho. It was a good map when the game mechanics of quake let the rails do 100dmg, shaft 8-8-8 and slower rockets (2002)

He wrote it a bit carelessly but he's trying to imply the old days instead of rail being located in DM13. I kinda agree since the map has a lot of tight corridors and QL has super fast rockets, making it extremely rocket heavy and forgiving to +back.

I wouldn't want it to get removed from the mappool but there are more exciting maps to spec/play, thats for sure.

4pc dm13 played

...

Really depressing post... Hence the fact you're a retard for saying that

you`re

Zhu was getting too much troll attention, so butthurtl3ss had to step it up

its a great map. just one thing that puts me off is the lava. i dont like the idea of having an outside factor other than your opponents weapons or your weapons deal significant damage. same with toxicity

then again i am really bad. so this dont matter

The lava adds another layer of game mechanics, subtles and often overseen: when you are near the corners and you can fall into lava you have to keep that in consideration, and decide wheter it's the case or not to rush an opponent with the rl;
you have to be more careful, you have to give more attention in dodging, rather than dealing damage, and to avoid jumping at all costs; in some cases you can just stay away from the borders.

And even when you are falling there are things that allows you to minimize the damage, and that aren't so easy to perform under pressure: such as rocket jumps, or careful walks with perfectly calculated final jump to the little concrete islands to allow you survive with just 10 hp.
I still have in mind the double rocket jump ol' Fatal1ty performed to reach the floor under the rl bridge.

The difference with 2000 is: still a great map, nothing changed.

I don't really understand how you can argue on the current state of the mappool since you haven't played anything but eyetoeye the last 4 months ( http://qlranks.com/duel/player/He4rTL3sS ) ?? In your link to the DHW thread you say that sinister and cure are "good" and "very good" maps respectively, but you have never played any of them.

Additionally, with the amount of games played on dm13 i don't even think you are able to tell whether it's a good or bad map at all.

also hes not even considered top16 in the world, so in reality he has absolutely no idea what top level dueling is like

yes you are right but still, i watched a shitton of games played by pro players on this map.

i don't base my opinion on my own experience of the map, but rather on what i've seen when the pros play it.

You might have noticed that everybody in the quake community has watched a shitton of pro duel games. You also might have noticed that the vast majority in the quake community is shit at duel.

you hear that Ran?

shitduels

We need thuderstruck and dm13 with 100dmg rail in the mappool just like good ol days

let's say it like this

when you make a brilliant duel map without RAIL we'll all discard this one, mmmkay?

this map is one of the best maps ever made for duel. period!

+

when you're at it, make a duel map without LG like t4


P.S.

toxicity sucks!

over and out

let's say it like this

when you make a brilliant duel map without SHOTGUN we'll all discard toxicity, mmmkay?

using brilliant and toxicity in the same sentence just doesn't make sense to me, you using osymorons usually?

and making a better than tox would be piece of cake

mmmkay?

do it now!

ql needs no shaft map, rail is ok, cause u can play with the angles(something i need to learn)

I disagree. Shaft is what separates good players from great players. Rail does not do that. Every idiot can hit high rail percentages given he has <80 ping, knows the map he is playing at least a bit (angles) and has a normal reaction time.

When I was actually playing the game somewhat seriously (I was at 1,5k ELO then) I would hit constant 60+ % rail against pretty much anyone I would be playing. Of course only on the maps I knew to some degree. I did that even against the better German duelers, it didn't mean I would win the games against them, I lost every of those games because my timing was worse, my aim with other weapons was worse, my general approach to the map was worse and my movement/dodging was worse. Still I could hit 60+ against them, but that didn't make me as good as them.

your disagreement was noted.

you just proved why rg is ok. shaft is not because with current mechanics its op. op as fuck.

I invite you to a duel vs me. You won't hit 60% rail ;) And I doubt u'd hit 60% vs twister or any other decent German dueler if he is taking it serious.

are you implying he wont hit 60rg because u warp?

yes))
I just play after 11pm, so usually I don't warp.

So whats your point? Because your not making sense.

I mean, i can hit 100% rail vs anyone, i shoot a rail and dont use it anymore, that makes the weapon easy? or my rail super good?

If your talking about mastering a weapon youre very wrong, you need to hit from angles that won't compromise you, and you need to know when and how to use it. So it's not that simple. Shooting rails without moving and losing every fight AINT having a good rail, even if you end with 60%.

percentages don't mean crap, most eastern european pros end up games with 40% rail 25% lg.. that means they don't know how to use the weapons right? It's just their timing that's better than yours? Your 60% rail is better?

Your arguments are so bad that i would delete them .. coz some might believe that's true.

Oh and i bet you wouldn't end up with 60% vs me aswell.

Try reading again.

I read it again and i'm still not convinced on your statements.

Now go try convincing k1llsen of that.

He has no clue what he's talking about. Has always been like that.

Personally I think it is one of the most exciting games to watch on stream. Even if there isn't a lot of kills you can see the players planning each move and predicting each other. Makes for some tense game plays.

HAHA !
NODM9 for QL ^ ^

Are you trolling us heartless? This is probably the only map that would suit you.

Think with me, it's easy to get stacked, and to get lg atleast.

So you pick an lg a bit of armor.. and you go straight for mid map.
You camp there waiting for enemy.
He shows up you put lg.
Instant thunderstruck moment, lg 1on1 face to face, no skill required, no positioning, no thinking.

This is by far the most useful situation for a brainless ca player.. don't understand your point of view.

Well.. ofcourse, if you go try playing actual duel with someone and go to corridors and for skilled shots with positioning, well that's not the point right? Youre a ca player...

I just imagined heartless getting an lg and a ya and going to mid map while his enemy takes everything else and just mg's him out of lg range and +backs with rocket when heartless gets close :D

What... you have ra just below, mega really near and a YA just in front, all of those items relatively easy to pick or counter.

Yes i know.. you have to move which isn't something ca players are used to , because they just dodge frenetically in the same place with lg until one dies, or they RJ to go places, but you don't have to move that much!

And yes, if someone picks the items you have to sum X+25 or Y+35 .. which can be like as hard for a ca player than a virgin looking for a vagina, but it's doable!

This is one of my fav duel maps <3 I can beat better players (aimers) there, simply by using brain, tactics and intelligence. And i love to watch dm13 on stream.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQpdY8Mhoiw

I posted this above (not complaining, though), and in that video zoot says, right before the match begins, "third map, can we have, maybe 6 overtimes? Please? hehe" -- then this happens :D

Lost world = great map