I like the idea of this, hope it'll work out. How far in development are you at the moment? And is there any idea when we will see a first glimpse of the game?

Don't tell them you're interested in this. They might just make sure they have anticheat measures.

just dont do any secondary weapon mode unrealturnament bs and its gonna be a success!

lol, no. There aren't any secondary fire mode.

no defensive items either, like shields.

good luck...

Very early in development right now, but expect gameplay videos to be posted on our website during the next year.

Nobodylol
The unreal engine for a competitive fps game? Thanks but no thanks!

On what exactly do you base such opinion?

the unreal engine is actually not very good, the mouse movement always feels very boxlike as in not smooth at all. compared to quake the same story counts for the movement, it doesn't feel smooth at all. picking the quake 3 engine would've been the better choice.

When programmers have access to the source code of a game engine, they have the power to modify, add or remove features. That's why I don't think it makes much sense to say ''Unreal Engine by default doesn't feel good, it's bad for competitive play". Obviously, those things are going to be changed drastically and if I'm not happy with the network code, I'm going to change it as well.

Whip up a basic areana with quake 3 movement physics, release the exe as a standalone for people to test and if you can do that, you'll get more support than anything you can actually say, cos most people here have been let down for 10 years in terms of the next best thing.

Doom 3
Painkiller
Quake 4
etc

The list is endless, and you can probably add Reborn to that list pretty soon.

Hey, trust me... I completely understand how you feel. Those let down pissed me off so much that I decided to step in the industry in order to fix this and as you can see... big studios and publishers aren't interested in such competitive games that aren't dumbed down. Plus, very few people in the industry are actually qualified to work on such games, because it takes a lot of sacrifices to properly understand high level play. That's why I'm an indie dev and am working solo, for now.

actually that would be a nice experiment...



currently rewriting physics,combat from scratch..
Show some support... -_-

How is this not CPM with higher player walk speed?

Strafe tilt is the devil.

Why is more than half the video LG to RA circle-jump when that can be done on vQL physic?

you would be the first to make an unreal engine based game that doesn't feel like that, so go ahead and suprise me.

Tribes Ascend feels pretty good when you unlock the fps to 120, not quake/tf2 good but still.

Mass Effect 3 aiming also feels solid to me.

You are correct, you can change this. But as mentioned by others, most ut based games had this mouse issue. Don't overlook it, and ask any NA top player to pay you a visit to do some proper QA when the time is right.

A friend of mine claims the input handling in UE3 is inherently inaccurate. I don't know if that's true or not (though I do respect his opinion A LOT), but from my own personal experience, mouse movement feels way better in quake. Also .cfg > .ini IMO

Wow, I thought the whole Canadians liking hockey thing was just a stereotype!

Sadly, it's not. I wouldn't even be surprised if that model they show us had a "Go Habs Go" taunt.

Do you have missing teeth and drink bottled beer in snow topped taverns in the middle of nowhere, before driving home in a red pickup, and get pulled over by state provincial troopers who let you off because they are related to someone in the truck?

You stereotyping asshole.

They have Mounties.

Deft Grinders is NOT a spiritual successor to Quake, Counter-Strike or Halo.


Yet you then seem to be describing Quake :D

That wouldn't be a bad thing, but no... Deft Grinders is quite different.

It features...
- Art style reminiscent of superhero comics and animated films
- headshots
- fighting system
- 10 weapons
- 10 gadgets
- Enhanced player movements (more than just strafing and jumping)
- Choose your weaposn and gadgets before a match or before the next respawn

headshots :(

those arent bad if they arent random (i.e. Enemy Territory)

This.

Headshots are interesting, especially in a battle where one player is on a ledge above the other.

my intial thought is they discourage aggressive play.

- Art style reminiscent of superhero comics and animated films

Why would one choose such idiotic style deliberately?

- fighting system
- 10 weapons
- 10 gadgets

Hello unbalance!

Why would one choose such idiotic style deliberately?

Because the majority of posters on these forums set it to a mode like that (ab)using the picmip setting. It is much better to design the game to have flat textures that look good than to just hope it looks good when you shrink textures by picking inappropriate map map levels.

You can also get away with less artwork which is probably a factor.

I was under the impression that majority of posters here set picmip to 4/5 which puts it's art style in the middle of tachisme.

Calling picmip abuse is ridiculous.

Well I am certain smoothing the walls down so much was not the original intention for the r_picmip cvar and the mipmap of textures. If the original intention had been to use it in that way, they would have coded an explicit non-textured mode, rather than fudging the way mipmap levels are selected.

Yes but Quake is so far from what ID intended in any incarnation that intent is a very distant second to what use the community can make of things.

In many ways I agree.

But in the context of my original post, it is far better to design a game to have flat shaded gfx and a renderer set up for this goal, than to misuse mipmapping to get a similar effect but in a less predictable and probably worse performing way.

I can certainly agree with that but usually game makers baulk at actually giving players what makes the game optimal to play. Additionally if tweaking is just reduced to a few supposedly optimal or alternative settings then what is actually optimal is no longer explored. Basically players need to tweak within non-cheating bounds or things stratify.

Interesting. Give us a little reminder on release!

Bonne chance.

Sounds like something desperately needed in the FPS genre. Will be following the development of this for sure.

I'd love to see a fastpaced FPS game with a totally destructible environment(and maybe some guns or something to modify that environment) so that you don't only have to care about raw positioning to win but also interact with the map to make it work in your favour
for example like it works in battlefield http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWdQQ4D50BE&t=2m30s
or some stuff like shield from etqw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkR5QOOiXDY but make it destroyable with heavy weapons only for example
at the same time you should balance it so that the game is not only about weapon abuse but also aim, dodging and other technical abilities to be able to win fights where you had nearly zero chances, that's what we love quake for

why not unreal engine 4 btw?

I might use UE4 in the future, but it's not available yet like UDK.

it would be somewhat amusing to see the state of a quakelive map after a heavy tdm match with some quad rl. probably most items would be out of reach. in a round based gamemode I guess the scenery could be reloaded after each round.

the maps with ageia physics in UE were also quite interesting

I mean UT

Looks stupid and will never be finished.

Unreal engine and cel shading (I cant stand Warsow and Borderlands because of their style) are things that dont make me go OMG, but still I wish you the best for your project.

Have you thought about using Unity engine or maybe idtech 4? Someone posted a Unity prototype of a arena FPS here some time ago that seemed quiet fluid.

me?

Just fix the mouse code.

UDK

/thread

I've looked at other game engines, I have friends and ex-colleagues in the industry that used others and Unreal Engine 3 was ultimately the best choice for Deft Grinders and the future of the franchise. And not only it's good for me, but those tools are also good for you (the gaming community and modders).

Now, why did I choose such art style reminiscent of comics and animated films? I've explained that on our official website.

Q: Why did you decide to make a cel-shaded game?
A: In most AAA games, there are too many details in the screen that distract the human eyes and slow down our reaction time, but if we lower the amount of details, then the game looks outdated. When it comes to mods, it takes a tremendous amount of time to create 3D stuff for those detailed AAA games. A well designed cel-shaded game can solve all those problems, still look totally badass and age very well, especially now with the current technologies. There are a lot of different ways to make a cel-shaded game, but we’ll do our best to make our art style feel reminiscent of superhero comics and animated films. And who knows, maybe there are bigger plans for the franchise.

In other words...
- Greater visuals for competitive play
- Increased productivity
- Increased performance
- Enhanced gameplay and mouse movements
- Greater accessibility for modders

Cell-shading is great visual for competitive play? I couldn't play WSW after a few rounds because of the art-style, it's just too bright :/

There are thousand ways to do cel-shading, obviously that's not a good one and I'm not a fan of Borderlands either.

WSW is a great project, but you have to realize it was done by a constantly changing team of skilled amateurs investing their free time. Especially on the art department, the vision was not really set on stone.

Nothing bright in WSW. Hell, you can even force every wall and wall detail to a custom colour, and all the floor area to another. Play in two levels of grayscale if you prefer.

I find warsow much easier then quake to get a visual appearance that works for me.

is it going to be a one time payment game? or a subscription model? or a micro-transaction model?

yes

$10-15 game, one time payment.

Install game
Mouse feels weird, must be Unreal engine
Look up game info
Unreal engine


If you can fix that, I'm pretty sure the rest can be worth looking at.

the concept art looks nice, not sure to what it reminds me.. but good luck hope your game turns out nice!

edit:maybe you could draw something from this game aswell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egf7S83t9ds

Do you want to make a competitive 1v1 game or are you focusing more on team play?

Both 1vs1 and 4vs4

Not Unreal engine.

Give the project a funny name.

Hire cooller to hype your game.

I reckon the unreal engine will be fine if you edit the input engine a bit. From playing UT2k3/4, I thought the aim was pretty responsive, if anything I found the movement to be the cause of any "floaty" feeling.

[obligatory "no Linux" whine]

Title: Deft Grinders
Genre: Competitive FPS multiplayer
Game engine: Unreal Engine 3
Targeted platforms: Windows, Mac, Linux, PS4 and Xbox One
Release date: N/A

I'm not personally a game engine programmer, but I know that it's possible to rework the rendering pipeline of Unreal Engine 3 to support both PS4 and Xbox One, so I assume that we should be able to do the same for Linux, if the PC version makes enough money to start with.

we should be able to do the same for Linux, if the PC version makes enough money to start with

I've seen those statements from other game developers before (on Kickstarter, Humble Budles, Steam... And the prime example was UT3, which engine you're using.) It never worked.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/65800/

You can read at the bottom of the page...

Linux System Requirements

OS: Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
Processor: 2 GHz CPU
Memory: 2 GB
Hard disk space: 6 Gb
Video Card: ATI Radeon HD 2400 or NVIDIA GeForce 7600, equivalent or greater
OpenGL: 2.1

that untapped market of 0.0001% of the userbase

I'm somewhat drunk etc.... But I'm sceptical.

Because you have to be really carefull that when you "give people stuff on spawn". That it's balanced.

In quake players can always pick up items / weapons. And this is why even when you skew the balance.... it will still maintain a balance. (when you alter small things like rocket dmg the game will in general become slightly less agressive but it will automatically regain a balance.)

When however you give people stuff on the spawn....... creating any kind of balance becomes increasingly hard as the choices for "stuff" increase.

You might think that "giving people more choices in their weapons" makes any game more strategical/tactical. But often (aka when the balance is somewhat skewed) it leads to a dominant type of play which then leads to a crap game.

I do wish you the best of luck in the project though and I'm looking forward to seeing what you make of it.

This!

You just cant make game balanced this way. And its most common system... sad.

Sounds like you dont have motive for moving at all in this game :D
like DA (CA 1v1) the player being most passive has biggest advantage.


Also there isint single playable game yet made with UT engines...

Playable game needs:
All the input options (rawinput,dinput,acceleration,senscap,offset blabla)
High performance so that you can run it with 10 year old machine if necessary.
Good netcode.

High performance so that you can run it with 10 year old machine if necessary.

I don't think so. Actually q1, q2, q3 and q4 destroyed the PCs of the time and the currently most popular competitive games were quite heavy as well.

This.

This also makes stuff like Zotac Cups have sense again.

To get sponsors, you need a beautiful competitive mode that supports any gimmick hardware vendors offer (3D, VR, touch screens, fingerprint scanners, whatever!). High performance mode has to be a disadvantage if the game wants to be an esport nowadays.

UE3? In before massive input lag.

It's weird, you're making a low graphics game on an extremely powerful modern engine know for its latency etc etc.

Why not use an older engine (idTech 3/4) which is more reliable and has a better history for competitive games?

idTech has the best input code of any engine I've ever used.

As someone that have never played a UT game since UT99, can somebody tell me what the problem is with mouse input on UT engines.

Telling me "it's bad" doesn't help much. What is wrong? Is it using mouse smoothing. weird accel that you can't turn off etc?

Mouse input seemed fine in UT2k3/4, I only played UT3 on a 60hz monitor, but it seemed responsive.

On the other hand I hated the mouse input in UT99.

Yeah i agree with UT99. I installed it some time ago and tried it out just for nostalgia. I couldn't get any settings that i liked.

UNINSTALLED!

Oky let me clarify something to make sure that we all are on the same page.

Graphics
Deft Grinders features high quality graphics and has an art style reminiscent of comic books and animated films. Each art style emphases on differet things, Deft Grinders emphases more on high quality animations, special effects, more characters on screen, faster production, visuals optimized for the psychology behind high level play, etc.

Deft Grinders wasn't designed to run on 10 years old PC, period. It was designed to run at 60 fps or more on recent, current and future hardware. 120 fps if possible.

About Unreal Engine 3
All the problems that you guys listed about Unreal Engine 3 can be fixed by the game developers. UE3 comes with certain things by default that we might want to keep, modify or remove and then replace. If other game studios did not fix those problems before, obviously those things weren't their highest priorities. We are making the next big competitive FPS game so obviously map prdocution, fps, mouse movements, player movements and physics, network quality are all the things that matter the most to us. I was a high level Soldier of Fortune 2 player myself and absolutely won't tolerate any less.

I won't use idTech 3 or 4, because UE3 is years ahead in terms of technologies and game development tools. It's a lot faster to use Unreal Engine 3 and modify it to be as good as those old engines in terms of input or network code, etc.

Unreal Engine 4 will come out soon, so it should be even cheaper to license UE3.

About game balance
Let me worry about that lol...

The UT engine is fine, just make sure it is responsive and can run at high fps (100+) on some settings

60 isn't good enough.

I'm fine at letting you wory about game balance. And I'm curious as to what you come up with.

I just said that letting people select weapons/items on the spawn can lead to extremely complex balancing and it doesn't usually lead to any kind of high level strategical play.
I know that a LOT of people, who I talked to about games, seem to think that more active choices on spawn will lead to more complex gameplay...... There are a lot of myths on why stuff is fun / balanced....

The only game that somewhat needs "off the spawn selection of stuff" is CS... Because the movement is so damn slow that you can't "go somewhere to pick up a weapon" as you'll be too predictable (people will 100% surely know which weapons/items you have in advance of them meeting you).

I would add to your list...
- Soldier of Fortune 2
- Shadowrun
- Tribes Ascend
- Fighting games

As a designer, I think players should be able to choose what they want to use. If your favorite weapon is the rocket launcher, but it's on map and 80% you won't be able to have it, then you'll be unhappy for 80% of the time. That's bad design.

Deft Grinders is very much like a 3D fighting game in the sense that instead of picking up a character, you choose what you want to fight with. That also implies that each weapon and gadget serves a different combat role and offers a very distinctive gameplay. In Call of Duty, when you have 40 similar weapons, it's very likely that one will rule them all. But in a game like Quake 3, a rocket launcher is very different from the Lightning or Railgun. In that sense, the weapons in Deft Grinders will feel similar to Quake 3, because they all are very distinctive.

Now, the big difference between Quake 3 and Deft Grinders is that you don't have to switch to another weapon to melee and that there is an additional layer of gameplay that are the gadgets. While weapons are mainly designed to challenge players on a more physical level (that's why DG also features headshots), the gadgets are mainly designed to challenge players mentally in contrast. In terms of pacing, weapons are there to keep the experience highly interactive and gadgets add key events wherep layers have to take very important and major decisions.

Weapons & player movements
Minor and frequent events; they punctuate the action.

Gadgets
Major and less frequent events; key decisions to make during a battle.

Melee
A mix of both and much more. It will force you to keep an eye on your backs (high stress level), will change how players move and play and is both skill-based and lethal in close-quarter-combat situations. So we'll finally have players that are really good at CQB and you won't find that in Halo, CoD, Quake, etc.

To me, Deft Grinders defines the new standard that could present the next generation of competitive FPS games and that's why Quake 3 is outdated. It has nothing to do with graphics. It's all about combat and mind games.

SoF 2 was not a really good competition platform for gamers... It kinda just tried to make it's multiplayer as close to CS as it could given that the single player (and thus engine / weapon balance) was completely different.

Shadowrun is an RPG? I've never played / seen it..... but RPG's have extremely different fundaments than FPS do.

Tribes Ascend is only fun in teams because in general the balance of weapons is kinda crap but if you have a series of combinations you can counter eachother.... But for duel it is shit.

In fighting games it seems as if there is a large amount of difference between the characters because the animations are different. But there are only very small changes in the "weapons" which they can use. Sure in some fighting games the difference is larger than in others but in general most fighters are fairly alike.


But I can see what you're trying to do.... I just don't think that it'll work out the way you plan.
You kinda see the merrits of what you have envisioned but almost everything in gameplay/balance is a double edged sword and which way it cuts is very dependant upon each situation (and upon it's implementation ofcourse).

I do want to encourage you to prove me wrong though :D

SoF2 is one of the most skill intense FPS you can find on the market at high level play, mainly because of its leaning mechanic that makes it play almost like a fighting game. However, that's the kind of mechanic that can only be used effectively at high level play and just cannot be used by beginners or advanced players at all in order to dodge headshots or feint. That's why I much prefer a dash that can be used by all 3 categories of players. At high level player in SoF2 players move jump and lean like monkeys in order to feint and dodge bullets, it's nothing like Counter-Strike at all LOL.

I was talking about Shadowrun (2007), the one that was cross-platofrm and playable on both PC and Xbox 360. Not any of the RPG games.

You say that there isn't much differences in fighting games, but there are far less differences in FPS games between one weapon and another. Not a very good argument if you ask me, fighting games takes a lot more skill overall than FPS games in 1vs1 and that's why Deft Grinders features additional layers such as melee and gadgets.

hmmm, never heard / seen anything from that shadowrun then... so I can't comment on that.

That SoF2 is an intense high skill FPS has also completely passed me by...... But hey I like quake so I don't play too many other shooters that actively nowadays.... I used to play everything (multiplayer wise) that I could get my hands on though (q1, q2, q3, q4, qlive, ut99, ut2k4 ut3, serious sam 1 and 2, aliens vs predators, some of those racing games which have destruction modes... and I'm prolly forgetting quite a few as well :p).

"You say that there isn't much differences in fighting games, but there are far less differences in FPS games between one weapon and another."
Excuse me? :)

I'd say that a rocketlauncher and a rail are 2 very different things.....
But anyway what I was trying to say is that although most characters in fighting games seem to be very different.... they are actually fairly similar.
They all have some ranged attack (nowadays usually around 3 basic ranged attacks per player) and a lot of closerange combo's (nowadays up to even 25 or more). But the main difference between characters comes from a very slight increase/decrease in either: speed, damage, difficulty of combo's combined with the different attacks. (example a character can have a very strong but slow long ranged attack while in close combat he does lower dmg. Or a character can have stronger punches than kicks while another character has it in reverse.....)


Now I'm not saying that whatever you're trying to do is bad in any way..... I'm just saying that it's very hard to make a balanced game in the context in which your ideas are shaped.

(edit: "context in which your ideas are shaped" might be using the wrong words.... but I think that my post is clear enough to convey my point.)

also btw to add on my above post....
in fighting games it often is that case the Character A is strong against Character B. And B is strong against C and C is strong against A (etc).

But that doesn't mean that there are any strategies / tactics involved other than just knowing what works vs who.... (it's not very strategical imo)

By the way you are talking a lot about featuring special movement and such but you haven't said anything yet.

Can you say anything that you had in mind like air control, double jumps etc?

Also what i think that weird is trying to tell you is that if you can spawn with a very defensive minded gear while you are in the lead. You will have problems with games becoming very stale.

"Also what i think that weird is trying to tell you is that if you can spawn with a very defensive minded gear while you are in the lead. You will have problems with games becoming very stale."

Well that is one option.

But there can be many types of problems which occur with spawning with gear. As they kind of remove "midgame objectives" (aka "get RA" / "get LG" / "do damage at mega" / etc etc) while these things often lead to different strategies which lead to all kinds of different playing styles.

If your only objective is to "frag the other guy" and you can pick gear for that on the spawn... there is also a huge "unknown" factor (aka you don't know what kind of gear the opponent spawned with) a lot of people will think that this makes the game more strategical/tactical but in order for it to succesfully do that....... well let's say that I've never seen anything like that for a duel game (most team games even have skewed balance).

There are just many dangers in creating a system like that as you cannot pre-determine exactly how players will use certain weapons / skills. (emergent gameplay)


(edit : skewed balance doesn't mean that there is no balance as "balances" usualy automatically arise from gamers trying to reduce the imbalance in the game.... for instance "Quad" makes you very overpowered.... which is why all teams time it and show up / aim for the guy who wants to take it before he has it / try to hide from the quad runner / go for insane initial dmg on him / etc etc. Which does lead to a "new balance" and in the case of quad this balance is again due to a "midgame objective" by both teams)

Yes this is what i was trying to say. I summed it up rather poorly but i didn't want to write a full article about what i thought that you trying to say.

A lot of people "think I try to say" something (usually it's pure evil or pure whine or pure bs depending on who is imagining what I try to say). So I thought I'd clarify a bit....

If anyone has questions about my views they are more then welcome to ask me though :D
I'd rather not have people say "Well Weird his views on this are *skewed view of what I said*" if you get my drift :D

(You explained it ok though :p)

Deft Grinders is a very agressive game, you won't find much defensive gear. Now, about the movements. It has to do with enhanced interactivity.

• Strafe
• Jump/ Walljump
• Double-jump; but it can only be performed in a certain time
• Some air control; but nothing that would make rockets useless, same reason why the double-jump can only be used in a certain time frame.
frame at the peak of the jump curve.
• Jump-crouch; must also be used in a certain time frame in order to jump over obstacles
• Press crouch when you land to avoid fall damage
• Grind; like the dash from Megaman X4, but it allows you to superjump (farther, not higher), drop from a platform faster, gain speed in slopes in contrast to a jump and a few other things that I won't talk about just yet.
• Pro-Reload; similar to gears of war, but no bonus damage.

Note:
Deft Grinders isn't a game about over the top Bunny Hoping. The goal is to have movements just as skill-based, but more down to Earth.

So movement will be more similar to UT2003 but with additional moves or more like a mix of UT and Quake.

This sounds interesting and i really do hope this turns out well.

I was sceptical at first but after reading some of your replies it sounds very interesting I hope you do well.

This sounds pretty interesting,
gl on the development !

You advertise it as

Arena-style FPS with refreshing skill-based gameplay for adrenaline junkies
Enhanced player movements
Competitive FPS

This all sounds somewhat appealing. However, none of this is new/refreshing or enhanced. That doesn't mean we won't enjoy it, we don't know yet.



But then you say:

Deft Grinders isn't a game about over the top Bunny Hoping.

That's where you've completely lost me. When I read your list of 'enhanced movements,' all I see is 1 input for 1 output. You jump at 'x' and achieve 'y'.

Bunnyhopping and strafe jumping are an exponential reward. It's a mechanic, not an instance.

They're a skill themselves that one can spend years on alone trying to master. It's essentially a skill without a cap. Having this form of movement as a basis amplifies the effect/skill of every other function the game has to offer.


I understand that a lot of these movement tricks will be used in quick succession, possibly almost the illusion of bunnyhopping. If that's the case, why not just have it?

Some air control

How much?

but nothing that would make rockets useless

So you want the player to be completely predictable if he decides to jump?
In Team Fortress Classic, some players move as fast, or way faster than most any player ever has in vQL. The rockets are slower than TF2 (not Quake 2 slow, god forbid), and they definitely are not useless.


Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but to me it seems like you're limiting yourselves for the sake of releasing a "refreshing" game, which it won't be. Everything has been done, the best you can do is pick the right aspects to create a perfect blend.

I'll keep an open mind once I see some game-play footage, but my expectations are low.

opiat kakie-to ninzia

Good luck. Been waiting for something new since Quake 4

Sounds interesting, I have one suggestion. Don't listen to any *gameplay* ideas from anyone on this site, or the game will end up some butchered Q3 clone. Just deliver your vision for the game the best you can and don't compromise. There's this deluded belief from some people that you need the input of "pro" players to create good competitive gameplay, I hope you'll be able to ignore that ludicrous notion.

You already sound like you've got a vision for the game and how you want it to be, I don't know if it will be good or bad but I'll just say good luck and I hope it turns out well.

only quakelive 2.0 or quake 5 can save quake



:)

Quake will be Reborn. Deft Grinders is the new breed.
Nuances...

no quake game has a chance so long as id is involved. it's time another company takes over

I thought a bit about what you're "describing" and I was wondering.....
How closely related to the game "Oni" is your desired gameplay?
Because I thought that game was really fun to play (although it was only singleplayer there was a lot of melee vs long range in that).

Because in general it sounds quite a bit like it (having a boots and having a cartoon like style etc.).
I still think that the balancing from giving stuff on the spawn is a horrible task (in oni you also pick up items on the go btw...)

oh man, thanks for mentioning this game, Oni)

wassup with it Cowboy Bebop?

as you said "that game was really fun to play" :b

now i want to play it once moar

haha... well it was fun to play :)

(btw...... back when it was in beta.... there was actually a multiplayer mode which got cancled because of latency issues.....
I've always wondered how it would've been in multiplayer as it's mechanics and artistic style were awesome.)

too many UE3 games...

gief Quake engine!

I think that if you want a video-game to become more than what it is then you have to rid it of the medium's shortcomings. Primarily, that competitive first-person shooters are abstract ideas that ground themselves in a semblance of reality. When a competitive mind plays it thinks not of murder, but because of that grounding that's exactly what others see—people running around killing one another. This is an illusion that only acts as a hindrance if you want a "first-person shooter" to become an e-sport, and if you want e-sports to become widely accepted.

A sport like Quidditch will never become popular with the general public as long as it continues to have ties with a fictional universe—regardless of its sporting merits—, and so it won't grow outside the niche of Harry Potter fans. Likewise, a first-person shooter won't be seen as a sport by the public until it ceases to be a first-person shooter.

Therefore it surprises me, given that you have an opportunity to create a sport, that you're making an abstract game wear a violent suite. Chess doesn't have an age restriction, soccer doesn't have an age restriction, tennis doesn't have an age restriction, swimming doesn't have an age restriction, but if you want to play an 'e-sport' like Quake Live you must be a teenager or given parental permission? This is such an obvious hurdle to the growth of e-sports.

The game that is Quake can exist without the guns, without the gore, without the human outlines, etc., and it would play exactly the same. You would've ridden the game of its violent illusion, and it would be one step closer to becoming a popular sport.

If you want people to see your game as something more than a game rid it of its immaturity. When an outsider looks at Quake all they see is violence. Do we want to perpetuate this illusion? I don't like the fact my favorite game is classified as a first-person shooter. I see not violence, but an abstract challenge.

Deft Grinders is centered on a game universe. It's not an "eSport" game designed to look like a sport.

Video game players are well aware that video games are mechanics and are not about murdering people. If you are a parent, maybe you are quick to judge violent game, but that's a totally immature judgement.

And even if Deft Grinders is in fact a violent FPS game, a lot of people will be very surprised by the humanitarian themes it covers.

Your introduction left the impression of a developer desiring to make an e-sport, and I shared my concerns about the game's premise as an e-sport. A sport isn't defined by a particular look, so to say one can make something look or not look like a sport doesn't make sense to me, and it wasn't the idea I was attempting to convey. Rather: video-game players know violent video-games are not about murdering people, but the public doesn't. I see that as a huge hurdle to the growth of e-sports—of competitive first-person shooters in particular. Designing your game to appear violent adds to the confusion.

Violent or not, how Deft Grinders would look like? An action film. Violent or not, it would still look like a variation of a combat sport. Combat sports shine when they are violent, because that adds an extra feedback that is profoundly satisfying. It makes the elimination of a player feel more dramatic.

Considering that UFC is the most popular international sport, I'm convinced that Deft Grinders will resonate with a lot more people as a violent competitive FPS game.

How would a fighting game look like if it didn't look like fighting? Boring.

How would a fighting game look like if it was super violent? AWESOME.

It's simple, you look at the mechanics and empower the theme.

UFC is the most popular international sport?

http://youtu.be/E5EYyZ5ABrQ?t=6m32s

Fighting is the most universal sport on the planet, period. And that goes way beyond just TV. And "UFC" was a poor choice of word.

I would still think soccer is much more popular.

How many of us were born with a soccer ball?

I understand what you are getting at but that does not mean it is the most popular sport. You could apply the same argument to cross country running.

I don't know if you have kids, but fighting comes way before walking, running and... well soccer. It's something we can all do and enjoy. Soccer only appeals to very specific people. Cross country running is so off topic lol...

Anyway, feel free to think whatever you want lol...

Fighting babies!!!!!!!!!!! please never stop posting

tis nigga fo reel?

The question is, will I be able to make a Rasengan?

lol...
No, but expect "gadgets" of similar nature.

Shinra Tensei >>> Rasengan

As far as I can see all you have are a few drawings and a half finished blender model?

One man development team: Check.
Grand claims before project is even off the ground: Check.
French Canadian: Check.

This is never going to happen.

It's already happening, so you better get used to it.

Bring some "IT'S HAPPENING!" gifs!

.

You got to understand that game development is very different now. There are many great tools out there to make high quality games and we've never seen that before. It's a great time right now to be a game developer.

To work as a lone wolf also means...

I don't have to waste my time with a HQ that wants to dumb down the game.

I don't have to waste my time with unqualified producers, game designers, level designers are egomaniac 3D artists.

I don't have to follow broken production pipelines and do overtime to compensate for extremely poor management.

I don't have to waste years of my life, because whoever was at the top didn't know where he was going with the project.

I have the balls to take opportunities and side jobs, so I don't even have to worry about time and money.

And because I'm finally working on a game designed to raise the bar, I can finally learn new things and improve my skills as a game developer and jack of all trades.

you just described 2gd

I would rather say that I described most of the reasons why game industry veterans go indie, but it's a mentality too. Obviously 2GD thinks that way as well, but I doubt he has much interest in all aspects of game development since he hired many people to do the job for him, and that's fine. Me, I prefer to learn everything, so if I don't ever get investors, I'll still be able to make the game that I feel needs to be made. I doubt 2GD would have made Reborn without an investor if he had no other choice. On the other hand, I don't think 2GD wants to be a full time game developer or designer either, so what he does with Reborn is a great service to eSports.

I understand your mindset and agree with it, the more people i depend on my work the more problems arise.

team management: 0pts

Well, even Fez happened, despite how long it took.

Have you done any games before this or worked on the development of a game?

And also how long have you been planning the game?

I strongly recommend you to visit our official website.

But for the record...
- It took me 3 years of hard work to get my foot in the video games industry.
- I've worked on 9 game projects since 2008.
- 5 of them were successfully released
- 4 first-person shooter games
- 3 multiplayer games
- I also worked in R&D to develop better game development tools
- I worked for Gameloft Montreal and Eidos Montreal both as a technical game designer and level designer.
- And I'm a self-taught 3D artist, 3D animator and programmer

You're like Jamerio, but real.

It feels much better now that we know you've got experience with games before.

You could have known that just by visiting our website as recommended in the first post.

:)

Daikatana?

lol

The biggest two questions are:

1.- When will there be a playable version released before 2015.
2.- Will it use the Unreal engine or not

If the answer to any of those is negative then I don't care about it.

1. When it's ready.
2. Yes.

Why are you only interested in Unreal Engine?

He's not, he fucked it.

I could have written the sentence in a better way. What I wanted to say is UE3 is the recipe for disaster for what he is targeting (competitive PC fps).

I'm also interested on the release date because not AAA games that take several years to be made tend to fail. In videogames time is of the essence and small companies shouldn't be that ambitious on the amount of content or in releasing a 'perfect' work.

Surely you've noticed that your UE3 choice is bothering people the most.
Produce an engine demo first, don't do art until you have a solid base with proper mouse inputs, 120+fps, etc. It must feel smooth. Prove that UE3 isn't shit first.

As for graphics - please make it look more like guilty gear xrd rather than ultimate marvel vs capcom 3.

I'm pretty sure that the game will be best if we leave the design to the makers.

Design yeah, sure, it was just my personal wish. The feeling of the game/engine however can be tested objectively and really should be most important before anything else.

I'll need the source code first to do what you are suggesting. So right now, I'm doing the exact opposite. I produce the content first, then I'll have something to show, that will allow me to acquire the right investors that I'm looking for and then, I'll get access to the source code and be in the perfect position to make the gameplay shine.

The thing is that you can't get 120fps without the art first. And it'S a good thing to do art first, otherwise you balance the game with a few weapons and have to wait for new content and in the end you lose months of production because you need everything to properly balance the game.

And indeed the art style of DG is closer to GG Xrd than Marvel vs Capcom 3, but in Deft Grinders... the environment doesn't have the same saturation as the characters, weapons and special effects. I think it's pretty hard to look at the characters in GG X3rd VS the background. There is a reason why it's supposed to be called a "background", right? ^^

Sooooooooo you haven't even started on programming it?

Yay, at least I agree on the art then : )
Do make a UE3 test though. As awesome as the dev tools are they won't help if the engine turns out to be unsuitable. Just see if you can smoothly jump around in a box map or whatever, no mouse lag or inaccuracies, no choppy movement feeling, etc. Make sure the engine can at least run at 120+fps without fps drops without art and effects. Just boxes, cylinders, stock textures, stock effects.

you cant get 120fps without art first...... wait what?
clarify what you mean please..

Yeah, it wasn't very clear, sorry.

It was an anser to this "Produce an engine demo first, don't do art until you have a solid base with proper mouse inputs, 120+fps, etc."

What I meant is that it's pointless to run the game at 125 fps with nothing to render. What is important to to make sure that the game runs at 125 fps with the art, characters on screen, animations running all at once, special effects, etc.

Any game will run at 125 fps if there is nothing to render lol...

That wont be a problem, i think what most people want is a simple ingame demonstration of mechnics.
No art needed.

Outside of that, what are your reasons for using UDK?
It is highly inefficiant as people have said, also you have several choices of engines that specifically made for competetive fps:es.

Example would be qfusion engine, go check it out.
I would also bet that Vic the author of qfusion could help you out a bit if you ask nicely.

As for my other comment, what i meant was.
Dont fight this community, cause you will loose no matter if it makes sense or not.

Thank you for the input.

Here are my reasons for using UDK:
- Powerful game development tools
- Well documented game engine
- Already established modding community
- High quality features + high performance
- Great workflow for both small and big development teams
- UDK evolves every month for free
- Flexible game engine (source code required)
- Can run on Xbox One and PS4 as well with considerable modifications to the rendering pipeline (source code required)
- The UE3 license should be cheaper when UE4 comes out.

To modify UE3 for competitive play will take a lot less time than to heavily modify idTech 3 or 4 to make it as good as UDK. It's a one way here. I'm not making a cheap mod.

Now why is it sooooo important for me to use UDK? Think about this.

My goal is to take Unreal Engine 3, fix it for competitive play, add the modern features we expect from FPS game nowadays (party system, invites, clan system, tournaments, etc.) and add more tools to add, remove or modify content. Basically, modders will finally have a multiplayer framework that will allow them to compete directly with Halo, CoD, CS, Tribes, Battlefield, Quake, etc. That's huge.

quake1 can be run on xbox360.
Doesnt mean anything as it doesnt take overwhelmingly hardwork to "port" them.

Wat you are essentially paying for is the UDK content framework.
The engine itself is quite honestly bland in terms of gameplay.
It just doesnt feel smooth.

As for matchmaking etc, they are all services provided by xbox,steam,psn.
You would most likely have to code all that from scratch anyway if you dont get greenlit or get your product on psn or live.
In any case it will cost you money.


I just find it curious why you would essentially waste money and time on a project like this. If you where a whole team working on it i would understand but you are essentially telling us you are alone and that time isnt a factor.


Do you even have a working prototype running on udk?

Will there be hats?

the amount of interest that has been shown in this thread is fascinating

Out of all the arena shooters that have been declared the new Quake or what ever they are calling themselves. This actually has a chance of happening.

The guy have been working on several games earlier, so he's got experience and isn't one of those guys that say "it can't be that hard can it?".

He have made the "design" already and knows what he want's to do. He isn't trying to be quake with something added. This game is something different. I don't know exactly what it is but so far it sounds good.

Since he have worked on games earlier he probably have friends that have some experience in games and will join later.

So therefore i am interested. I'm not pissing my self of excitement, but it has my interest.

I haven't seen any specific design yet.
I haven't seen any 3D to get excited about yet.
I haven't seen any concept art to get excited about yet.
I haven't seen any code yet.
I haven't seen any animation yet.
I haven't seen a physics or movement demo yet.
I haven't seen anything other than a word press theme stating an intention to use a free development kit and a few idealistic intentions.



I would grant you same understanding had I seen several of those things to an excitable level, but I haven't so I'm gonna be remain tight lipped and remind you how much have you seen of...

"Reborn"
"Severity"
"PMX"
"Doom 4"

And remind you that the data points to bigger and more established people trying and not succeeding to bring their FPS goal to fruition.

Anyone can state an intention, put it on a wordpress theme and not demonstrate any of the things they intend on delivering. I'll get 'excited' when I actually see something.

like we`ve seen so much from you?

I think one bafta to the sequel of one of the biggest video games of all time is enough. This isn't even about me anyway.

When I say I'm gonna redefine the FPS genre, I'll do all the things I said are lacking above.

I never caught this, but what game was that anyways??Never bothered reading those walls of text, so just point it to me now?

I'm bored of this and so is everyone else.
Its not about me for a change and I'm about to play GTA 5 on an all night session round a friends, so bye!

"You can normalize, don't it make you feel alive!"

is it so difficult to write me down that title that brought you bafta??

I think you are a funny guy.

"I think one bafta to the sequel of one of the biggest video games of all time is enough."

You worked as a game designer on 1 published game that happened to be Perfect Dark N64: a game made by over 50 employees and you are sitting proudly on it when your career as a god gifted designer ended abruptly right after.

The UFC fighter Georges St-Pierre is a MMA legend and proven champion, because he won, lost, learned, improved, won, again and again and again. He didn't retire after his first win in the UFC.

And I certainly don't understand why you went on a rant about stuff you can't see yet such as design stuff, animations, code (seriously?)... when the first post is clearly just an invitation to follow the development of the game, which I think is fantastic for whoever wants to get into the business and wants to understand how it works. And I'm convinced that this project is going to motivate a lot of other people to make games as solo devs too.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm working on my 10th game project, the 7th that will be successfully released and am doing everything that, I feel, needs to be done to finally have a new breed of competitive FPS games to play, because I'm extremely hungry. So wait for the next updates, because I'm not going full secretive for... no valid reasons whatsoever as nobody else can make this game anyway without my brain. And considering that I've worked hard since 2005 to get where I am now to finally work on the games that I want to make and do what I think needs to be done to improve the current state of the video games industry, the probability that Deft Grinders will be released is a lot higher than most other game projects made by small teams or solo devs.

During that time, you have all the rights James to come here, move hot air and sit on the success of a 13 years old game that you haven't even made 80% yourself. But if you are really that great of a game designer, gamers deserve more games from you, so maybe you should go back to it. It's never too late and life is short.

can i ask you how much coding experience you have? this is like me 'inviting' you to follow the development of my house while I haven't even drawn up the blueprints yet. BTW I'm also acting as architect, builder and plumber. its fine because I've painted a few houses in my time!!!!!

I had web programming classes when I studied multimedia.
Scripting classes when I studied level design.
I've been scripting (Kismet-like editor) stuff for the last 4 years for AI behaviors, gametypes prototyping, missions, etc.
And I'm learning UnrealScript and C++ by myself.

Considering that I'm not limited by time or money either, your question seems very irrelevant to me, because as I said, there is nothing that will stop me from releasing this game. And one of the reason is, that's my personal Jedi Training to become fully independent as a game developer.

And before you ask, I'm also learning 3D animation on my own while I'm right now a student in 3D modeling at Campus ADN here in Montreal, which is where I first followed my level design course years ago, to step up my 3D skills. But as I said, the difference between 99% of the people and me, is that I got the balls to study and master all of it to make games all by myself. Just a few years of learning for a new life, it's worth it.

And I'm convinced that the next generation of game developers will be like MMA fighters, they'll learn and know how to do everything. So, I'm actually either a very old school dude or a pioneer.

So what's your time-frame on this? People spend years mastering just one aspect of game making. When are you going to start programming it? Judging by your replies here you seem to think this part is trivial or unimportant or something.
It's so easy to show up with some half baked ideas, having not even started the actual hard work. Maybe you should have a look at this:

http://www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_keep_yo...rself.html

"People spend years mastering one aspect of game making."

No, that's a myth and that applies to all other things in life. In most cases, it takes a few months to 1-3 years to reach a high degree of proficiency in a certain field of study. After that, it's a lot slower to progress. And when people get jobs in their field, they tend to perform a lot of repetitive tasks, so they don't progress at all and sometimes they even regress.

Video games are a lot more about productivity and less about high quality. Video games are like comic books. So, good design and functional in the rest. Hawken is actually a good ref on how games should be made efficiently.

"No, that's a myth and that applies to all other things in life."

I...

"it takes a few months to 1-3 years to reach a high degree of proficiency in a certain field of study."

...wha-

"Video games are a lot more about productivity and less about high quality."

...but-

"Video games are like comic books."

*backs away slowly*

Video games are a lot more about productivity and less about high quality.

I can agree with that when applied to art/modeling. These thing take a lot of resources and going for high productivity rather than super high quality there can be good. But that doesn't apply to everything. Certainly not about programming a game engine, even if it's only modifying it. Also, while you can learn C++'s basics fairly quickly, understanding it well enough to fix UE3 instead of fucking it up even more might prove a much, much bigger challenge than you expected.

That said, good luck.

Actually there were less than 20 full time staff on the game.
Most of the others did little bits at the end. But as I said, this is not about me.

I'm simply saying in relation to what the guy said you have nothing to show at the moment and what you have shown/told is not really good enough to inspire confidence.

This was the stage when you had a chance to show people something to attract talent, and I'm sorry to tell you, but this isn't going to attract anyone to believe in you.

http://www.imagesup.net/pt-0137952199310.png
http://www.imagesup.net/pt-14137952216714.png

When probed on the rest of your skills you tell us you're

Learning C++
You're learning to animate.
I bet you're learning to 3D model, texture too.

So basically you can't really model, texture, program, animate but you're the guy that is going to deliver the next evolution of FPS game.

Do you have any demos in quake or street fighter (the two pinnacle games of the two genres you would need to master to deliver what you want) people can see?

I wanna see how good you are, and soldier of fortune 2 isn't going to get you anywhere around here :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Df3iRqFsxc

Sorry but I can't stop laughing at this one. Its so ridiculous.

: D

"Video games are a lot more about productivity and less about high quality."

This may be more effecient in terms of making proits but it reflects poorly on your individual skill level. You work with software and you don't even know how to program. I for one appreciate a good game design and especially the art in a high quality production.

Learning C++ will be very useful in the wider field of computers not just video games. Since you're already involved with games, I recommend you make mods. It's a great way to practice your skills.

This is getting ridiculous. How many of you guys actually made games before? And I'm not taking about mods.

And who actually worked as a programmer?

Not as ridiculous as telling the world you're going to redefine the competitive FPS genre while at the same time telling them you're learning virtually all the skill sets required to do this, after making out you already have them.

UDK is not an autoamtic game maker, if it is, you're only going to end up with a game similar to Unreal.

"And I'm a self-taught 3D artist, 3D animator and programmer"

A day or so later it turned out you're learning how to program c++ and how to animate, and I already know your 3D skills are of a similar level. Its jack of all trades, but master of none.

If I was you the first thing I would have done is...

A) Made a nice 3D character model, textured, lit it and showed it in game in real time along with the art style.

B) Made a nice 3D environment or a SMALL section of the level to show case the art style and level design.

C) Made a video of the movement, or some of the mechanics.

D) Posted some kind of design document so people can see specifics.

Had you done that you would have had everyone support.
But you executed your pitch very badly IMO.

You forgot (or did know) people here have had the same thing promised to them FOR YEARS by people who have actually delivered things to them in the past.

After the 4th or 5th time its hard to get positive about someone dangling broken dreams with less credentials.

Try not to take it personally, best thing you can do is do everything I said above and come back with just that. But that will actually require more than words and good intentions.

I'll say it again: this is NOT a pitch. This is an invitation to follow the game development of the game.

I'Ve worked several times with Unreal Engine 3 professionally, so thank you for the tip. Obviously, I didn't know it wasn't an automatic game maker.

About A, B, C and D. Those points aren't bad, but I wouldn't present the game that way and I certainly wouldn't show some kind of pointless design document. I'd much rather show a gameplay trailer that highlights everything awesome about the game, release a full gameplay footage of a match and give an early access to whoever is willing to pre-order the game for cheaper.

I'm well aware of those failed promises, because as I said I for one stopped complaining, hoping and have been actively doing something about it since 2005. Obviously, I'm not going to stop now and to master 3D modeling, 3D animation and game programming is a walk in the park compared to what I pulled off in the past.

"After the 4th or 5th time its hard to get positive about someone dangling broken dreams with less credentials."

Assumptions are for delusionals.

You post concepts and work in progress shots.
Aswell as put forth details on how the game is planned to feel like.
You give reassurance that you are a competent developer etc.



That is a pitch (no pun intended).
All we have is you being overly defensive on a forum and questioning everybody around you, aswell as bragging how good you are.

Just stop posting here and comeback with something more substantial. Cause being in here going all defensive is just a waste of time.

Plus your undermining your own project by acting somewhat like an entitled deuche.


gl hf

I don't think the correct way to engage the communities skepticism is demanding to see people's credentials. I would just cool off from posting here until you have some tangible stuff to show us, don't leave a bad taste in people's mouths by being arrogant and combative.

EDIT: By the way, the project sounds really interesting to me. But you have to expect skepticism when you tell people you are picking up coding skills as you go along(even if you are just tweaking the unreal engine and not rolling your own).

Another Jamerio thread in 3.. 2.. 1..

UFC and comicbooks

this thread is now about jamjam

The game is all about choosing your equipment before a match or the next respawn, combat and mind games.

no. we have that already and it's 5v5 with a lot of crates.

Game programming: A walk in the park.

I think the meshing of game ideas into some useable form wont be the difficult aspect. gutting the engine to reverse its faults will be the hard task and for that he could hire someone when he recieves funding from a kickstarter. so who knows.

hiring p0rt ?

what about the language barrier.

everything can be p0rted

He would try to turn his game into militia.

Deft Grinder Militia -there you go, multiculti all in one ftw.

Hey wazzup guys.

Well, I have great news.

I ran into an old friend this week and he basically gave me a great advice. Basically, he told me about another game engine that could actually be better for Deft Grinders than UDK, Unity, idTech3-4 or CryEngine.

I took a look at it and was both quite surprised and impressed. It's very solid game engine that offers great performance and many other awesome features. At the top of that, it gives us access to the source code (C++), it's affordable and it can look pretty good (next gen).

Some of the technologies featured in that game engine were used for AAA games such as The Last of Us, F.E.A.R, Bioshock, Halo, Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine, Alan Wake, Starhawk, Darksiders, Guild Wars 2, Assassin's Creed, Devil May Cry, Call of Duty, etc. But the most obvious example is Orcs Must Die 1 & 2.

Havok Vision Engine.

If I like it, I'll take it.

H Y P E
Y
P
E
\o/???

Hey a little update on the project. I got the opportunity to take 3d modeling courses, they are very intensive and I got a son, so.... the development of DG will be very slow this year, but it's for the greater good as I'm slightly increasing both my 2D and 3D skills.

I'll redo all the 3D work I did so far, because I've learned so much already.

And I took advantage of my 2D classes to make more concept arts for DG.


Team - Grinders
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5617/ubq2.jpg

Team - Corporation Soldiers
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4634/hn5m.jpg

Concept art
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/8472/4sr6.jpg

In that last concept art, the assault rifle and floating helmet are both based off actual 3D models I made for the game.

And for the game engine, I'm officially using Project Anarchy, the game engine developed by Havok. It's pretty solid...

Blue model is cool, the other not so much.

"those features will be available as well for the console versions."
You know a game will be a fail as pc esport when you hear 'console' somewhere in description.

At this point, DG is a PC exclusive. I have no intention to support Microsoft or Sony either in their dirty business practices and bad moves.

At the top of that, I'm also dropping the game controller support as they didn't improve as expected.

I really love to see someone with some much passion for FPS wanting to give something back to the community, its a shame so many people are keen to pull your every word apart and try and degrade your integrity. I think this is one of the reasons we dont have a stronger fps community.

Please keep going with this, learn what you need to, bring your dream to life and dont listen to the nay sayers!

I love it too, really.

On the other hand. There is no a lot of arena shooters fans. So probably will be better to stick to only one title.

But such title need to have some features... usually there is lack of them...

Will be grat to see good and new arena shooter and move to it.

Why should people invest their energy in someone whose shown little or no ability to deliver what they say, but talk like they can?

He's been talking about it for nearly 6 months.
Everything you have seen about the 'game' could be done miles better by anyone remotely able in less than a day.

Don't hate on people for not being as gullible as you are.

Are you talking about 2GD?

And why would anyone listen to you when none of your arguments are actually correct?

And by the way, I worked on DG for a couple of months on my own time and money, but at some point... the man got to feed his family and I had the opportunity to get paid to study 3D modeling.

And you go on saying stupid stuff like I can't deliver what I said. Well what I said is that I'm going to acquire all the skills I need to make this high quality game and that I'll actually make the game. Now, I'm busy studying 3D modeling, so my ability to deliver what I say is actually pretty good.

Oh yeah, and I can't wait to see you make that stuff remotely better in less than a day.. You know, a lot of things changed since Perfect Dark N64...

Im not hating on anyone, and im not gullible. I am trying to encourage someone who seems to have a dream and the enthusiasm to try and make it a reality. I understand he hasnt delivered much yet, but neither has 99% of the people in this thread who are so quick to discredit him.

People are investing energy replying to this thread, they have the option to stay open minded and reply with encouragement or the option to be negative and try and put tidal down for any minor flaw he may have in his approach to informing the community about his dream - unfortunately most people seem to be taking the second option.

There is no need to act this way, and it is because of this type of community bandwagon put-downs that a lot of people simply walk away from projects that could possibly one day improve the scene and our range of fun games to play!

Lets just show some love and support and hope that tidal can realise his dream.

this has all the classic hallmarks of a project that will go nowhere. two months later and the progress is three new poorly drawn pieces of "concept art".on top of this the guy also responds really badly to any kind of criticism or negativity and has totally naive ideas about what actually needs to be done.

you ARE gullible if you think this has any chance of being completed

Big claims, there is only one way to know.

The concept arts are not poorly drawn, those are poorly colored. That's why in the comic books industry, you often have inkers and colorists. Concept artists digitally paint stuff and that just doesn't fit with the art direction of DG (comics). Still, I'm going to learn how to paint concept arts during the second session of my studies in 3D modeling as we have very talented teachers, so that might help me improve my coloring skills as well. Ironically, these days... there are a lot of successful animated series on TV that are poorly drawn.

It's also your perception that I respond very badly to any kind of criticism or negativity, but the reality is... I never cared about criticism or negativity either. What I don't tolerate are poor arguments, false statements, assumptions and lies. If you act like a jerk, then don't expect respect or kindness in return.

Then to say that I have totally naive ideas about what actually needs to be done doesn't make any sense either when I worked on 10 projects during the past 5 years and was involved with all the departments (programming, 3D modeling, 3D animation, sound design, QA, etc.). Add to that that I was involved in Research and Development projects. And I've worked with people from all over the world that worked on Halo, GTA, Assassin's Creed, etc. Oh, and 95% of the projects I ever worked on were, strangely, FPS games.

Please guys, think twice before making such claims.

o ok then

If it's not Quake, who really cares?

Some famous Quakers would really like to see quake die 8)

:D

cause then they won't have anything to come back to :D

looks poor as fk
we'll see tho

So... Reflex! :P

http://reflexdev.org/
https://www.facebook.com/playreflex
https://twitter.com/ReflexDev

;)

"Some new FPS games currently in development"

Well apparently Perfect Dark is actually competition to your shitty game. JAJAJAJAJAJA

Friend, in all seriousness, may your harvests be abundant and may your children eat of the fat of the beasts of the field.

Another wonderful concept art for Obi who doesn't like my art style :P
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1271/w3md.jpg

LOL...

They are bad drawings, its not about the "art style".

There are many styles and each of them has different qualities. Some styles are a lot more suggestive for the mind...

By me
http://imageshack.us/a/img42/7123/lntv.jpg

By Sparth
http://31.media.tumblr.com/6dab78c59a630ce402...o1_500.jpg

http://www.sparth.com/2010/sparth-sq-01small.jpg

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdc7kgVzgp1r5ajivo1_1280.jpg

Those are nice art styles, but when it comes to video games, it's better to have less suggestive art styles. From the same guy...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bTLQxaRSH_M/UL7cGf4...48_max.jpg

And if you look carefully at the picture, it still is suggestive. When it comes to video games, I prefer when the concept art is sharper, more precise and leaves less room for interpretation.

By me
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/7160/k3a4.jpg

And concept arts have a use. If I'm doing a concept art for my own project, I want to know where I'm going. So no matter how good or bad you think my skills are... The following image has all the information I need to make a good 3D model in zBrush. And that's not a concept art, that's a model sheet.

http://imageshack.us/a/img191/5617/ubq2.jpg

And my concept art teacher works at Ubisoft (http://nuro-art.deviantart.com/gallery/), he is really good, and believe me... I know where my skills are at compared to real concept artists. I don't consider myself has a concept artist at all, but my skills are more than enough to satisfy my needs on my own project. And that way, I can save that money and invest it somewhere else.

uhh why are you showing me other peoples concept art? why are you telling me who your art teacher is (lmao)?
again, you don't have a "style" you are just a total amature artist.

Are you even serious about your project?

You made this thread so that we could follow your development progress and so far:

You announced to use the UT engine which you stubbornly defended with what seems very weak reasoning and your points seemed to of the quality where they could have been read off a cearal box. While meanwhile you dismissed any of the issues by claims that you are gonna fix all the issues in the source code, which later on turned out you had not even your hands on. A month later you announce that you are going to use a completely different engine. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously with such claims.

You are talking about the early development process, yet it turns out you don't know any of the core skills required to make a game. You are only now taking classes to program, 3D Art/Modelling and drawing. So basically when you announced the game, in reality you only had an idea of it and only began to study the skills to make any progress. Sounds like I know more of game development by playing Game Dev Tycoon on steam...

Since your initial announcement you have not shown any work or progress that could have taken more than around a week of total work, probably even less for someone skilled. This implies a couple of possibilities:
a) You are not committed to the project.
b) You are vastly lacking skills to make any progress to show off.

Which is it? And although putting food on the table for your family is a priority above all, it doesn't cut it as an explanation why there is no progress- it shows poor planning and lack of commitment. If you plan to work on this over the weekends then don't announce it in a way saying you are bringing the next competitive FPS which will be the most intellectual game out there. Really what makes you confident of making a claim as that? Do you even have very concrete gameplay and design ideas to be making claims like that?

The very few things you have showed off are of dubious quality and have little to no value. So far we have seen only amateurish concept art of poor drawing skills. Two character concept art, a 3D model that might as well be part of some homework for your studies. And a few other poorly drawn concept art with the last being the worst. It is not about style your drawings are several orders magnitude bellow the other work you posted.

Your responses to critique are mostly overly defensive and you steer the attention to your flaws by name dropping and going on a tangent. Just like you did in this post.

Such behavior indicates a weak character- someone who will not have the mental strength to push a project and oneself through to a final product.

How much hours have you put into this project and how much content have you created? And no, studying to acquire the skills can not be counted towards time spent on the project, that is not creating content for the game.

Creating a game on an individual basis is very challenging and one would expect the creator to be a jack of all trades- not excelling in any, although, by the looks of it, you lack even the basics.

Deft Grinders is most certainly never going to happen.

I swear I didn't write it.

Hahaha. That made me laugh. I guess it's uncool to agree with you but most of your points in this thread were absolutely valid and spot on.

FFT, assumptions are nice, but always delusional.

As a gamer, I got the balls to step in the industry to find ways to fix the problems we had back then in 2005. We now are in 2014 and things only got worst. But it took me 4 years to get my foot in the industry and that required me to work harder than anybody else and cut myself from friends and family for years. And once I got my foot in the industry, I've done everything I possibly could to climb the ladder, fix problems (research and development, game engine creation, etc.) and again... worked extremely hard for another 4 years. That allowed me to properly understand game development and how problems just can't be solved from the inside. But right after that moment I went through hell for the past two years. I got a kid, he had some considerable health problems, lost a job, our diabetic cat (my fav) died, then we lost another cat (my son's fav), I lost my father in law and right before Christmas I lost my step mother and the two of them were the greatest members of our two families and the closest people to my son) and it was really hard to work or study with the kid screaming, yelling around, etc. And you know what, I'm still here, doing my thing to make DG all by myself and smiling.

Now you claim that I stubbornly defended UDK and that is delusional. You guys talked about how UDK sucks, when it's actually one of the greatest game engines, period. And what you guys don't like about it could be change with C++, but that requires a full license, which is very expensive. So my plan was to make the whole game and later port it to UE4. I later found out about Project Anarchy and how it would be a much better choice for DG and future projects.

When I started to work on DG, my goal was to make a prototype to then acquire investors to later recruit additional employees. But as I was working on the game design, I started to fall in love with every aspect of game development and realized that I could actually learn how to do pretty much everything at a high level all by myself. DG will get released when it's done.

Unfortunately, the 3D modeling courses and my kid are taking all my time right now, that's just life. But in a couple of months I'll finally have free time.

So, it's really pointless to talk about how I lack or lacked skills, because I'm learning and mastering everything I need in the process. 3D modeling was the hardest part and I'll already on a professional level right now and as I thought... I'm personally going to specialize in characters.

And then you guys started to talk about how my concept arts looked either good or bad; that's just dumb. Those concept arts were creatd to illustrate the stuff that I'll have to create in 3D, why would I spend more them on them??? That would be a waste of time and money.

And yes, when I claimed that the game would be the most intellectual competitive FPS game, it's because it's pretty much all done on paper and I know exactly where I'm going with this.

Deft Grinders is real and will get released when it's done. It's not even a question.

Assumptions and delusions is all I hear from you. (And just listen how defensive you sound, further supporting the point I made) Seriously I suggest you look up the word delusion in the dictionary because it seems you don't know what it means or are just being a defensive crybaby... Everything I said was based on your own words in this very thread or on things found on your website.

Why would you bring up personal life difficulties in this? It's irrelevant this was not supposed be your personal cry blog but about the progress of your game. Do you already want us to be compassionate about your inevitable failure?

I'm sure UDK is great but it's not flawless and it's flaws lie right in the way of what you set out to achieve. And talk about delusional- you dismissed all those issues by- it can be fixed within the source code:
a) You have not looked at the source code
b) They don't teach that in your programming courses and it takes a lot of work and experience.
c) it's too expensive for your budget

And later hopping over to Project Anarchy shows you had no clue what you were talking about and had not done proper research, which is something you would normally do before announcing the game is in development.

I also find it laughable that you think finishing a course on 3D modelling (or anything) makes you a professional that shit takes years to master and become proficient with. I know this for a fact as I could follow someone who has gone through it over the course of years. It's a gradual improvement over time and the person used 3D programs every day for years and received lengthy training.

I'm personally going to specialize in characters.

Since you are working alone, can I assume that one of your game's focus points will be characters? For a competitive FPS title? Do you even hear your own words? It's very low on the focal points a competitive fps needs.

We criticize your art because it looks shit. If you post something publicly, it will get seen and judged and you will get feedback and criticism. That's how it works. If they are shit drawings and their quality doesn't matter for the end project then you should not publish it in the first place.

Also it doesn't even matter how much time you put in those things. A skilled artist can make something in 10mins and 10hrs it will both look skillful and good but one will have much more detail and polish on it. Yours just look shit and no time investment could change that, showing one thing- you can't draw to save your life...

I asked you before but you, not surprisingly, you chose to ignore: How much and what have you created for your DG project? Because we see nothing worth almost half a year of work. There is just nothing.

''because it seems you don't know what it means or are just being a defensive crybaby...'' - Assumption

''Everything I said was based on your own words in this very thread or on things found on your website.'' - Delusion

''I'm sure UDK is great but... bla bla bal'' - Assumption

''And later hopping over to Project Anarchy shows you had no clue what you were talking about and had not done proper research'' - Assumption and delusion

''I also find it laughable that you think finishing a course on 3D modelling (or anything) makes you a professional that shit takes years to master and become proficient with. I know this for a fact as I could follow someone who has gone through it over the course of years. It's a gradual improvement over time and the person used 3D programs every day for years and received lengthy training.

I'm personally going to specialize in characters.

Since you are working alone, can I assume that one of your game's focus points will be characters? For a competitive FPS title? Do you even hear your own words? It's very low on the focal points a competitive fps needs.'' - Lack of experience and understanding of game development

''We criticize your art because it looks shit. If you post something publicly, it will get seen and judged and you will get feedback and criticism. That's how it works. If they are shit drawings and their quality doesn't matter for the end project then you should not publish it in the first place.

Also it doesn't even matter how much time you put in those things. A skilled artist can make something in 10mins and 10hrs it will both look skillful and good but one will have much more detail and polish on it. Yours just look shit and no time investment could change that, showing one thing- you can't draw to save your life...'' - Lack of logic and understanding of game development. It's the equivalence of judging the visual quality of a graybox (the rough version of a map, before artists touch it). It's pointless and stupid.

''I asked you before but you, not surprisingly, you chose to ignore: How much and what have you created for your DG project? Because we see nothing worth almost half a year of work. There is just nothing.'' - I already replied to this many times already in great detail.

Alright so we playing the quote game now? This is greatly in my favor as all your stupidity is lying right in front of me.

Hard to even decide where to begin. Let's take a breather and step away from this discussion and have a look at your portfolio. So we know who we are talking about, because, when making a claim to bring the next revolutionary, intellectual PC exclusive FPS, it is only fair to look who is making this promise.

Gangstar Vegas (iPad & iPhone)
Level design + Mission scripting

lolmobile. 'Level design + Mission scripting' hardly the most relevant skills when making a game from scratch alone.

Modern Combat 3: Fallen Nation (iPad & iPhone)
Level design + Scripting

lolmobile.

Modern Combat: Domination (PSN)
Level design + Collisions + AI navigation + Additional help to game design + Documentation

Console FPS and PC FPS are a world of difference, especially when you want to appeal to quakeminded crowd, who value fast and crisp gameplay. And from the looks of it- just another CoD clone, not impressed, but I bet we are soon going to get down the list to those amazing AAA titles you have worked for PC and gained tremendous experience... right? right? ... pls?

Modern Combat: Sandstorm (iPad & iPhone)

Big Range Hunting 2 (Mobile)

lolmobile again....

Unreal Tournament 3 – Custom Map (PC)
3D Buzz: Old School Level Design Contest, Top 10 Finalists
Level design + Lighting

This is the only item that was labeled PC and it is just a map... So you have zero experience developing on PC yet you make grand claims like that. DELUSIONS at their finest right there.

Now back to the thread.

''because it seems you don't know what it means or are just being a defensive crybaby...'' - Assumption

Nothing of value to the discussion. Only further supports your hurt crybaby personality.

''Everything I said was based on your own words in this very thread or on things found on your website.'' - Delusion

If you think that is not a fair statement call me out on something of substance and I will point a finger to which one of your posts it is based on.

''I'm sure UDK is great but... bla bla bal'' - Assumption

Assumption by a far stretch. There are a lot of games developed using the unreal engine, so it must have strong selling points. However, no FPS game I have played on the unreal engine felt great to the mouse or movement. Experience.

''And later hopping over to Project Anarchy shows you had no clue what you were talking about and had not done proper research'' - Assumption and delusion

Fact. You chose the unreal engine and religiously defended it only to switch one month after. Interpret it as you wish but it is in no way an assumption or delusion. Hard fact.

Lack of experience and understanding of game development

Not gonna quote the full segment but sure I can't boast huge experience in game development, as all I have done is make maps for counter-strike 1.6 and do some mission and event scripting for Operation: Flashpoint at the age of 14-16. However, you can't play the 'experience card' either because from your portfolio you have done jack shit, that is worth anything on the grand scheme of game development esp indie and solo.

I still stand by every word I said about 3D modelling because I know people who do similar things, but not for games.

About art- a talented artist can make a small sketch and you can see great skill in every stroke. Something you could not do if you worked on detail and polished your work over and over.

So please enlighten us what you meant by specialization in characters in the context of a competitive PC FPS. As I understand you are not working on SP so it makes even less sense. Would it not be rational to specialize on engines, such that you can tweak it to squeeze every drop of amazing gameplay out of it as possible; or even on level/game design to create the best stage for the intellectual master piece you promise?

It's the equivalence of judging the visual quality of a graybox (the rough version of a map, before artists touch it).

No it is not the equivalent. Because you are creating ART and we judge ART. What you are saying is that no artist has touched your concept art, which I find most agreeable. If you have a problem with that don't publish it.

''I asked you before but you, not surprisingly, you chose to ignore: How much and what have you created for your DG project? Because we see nothing worth almost half a year of work. There is just nothing.'' - I already replied to this many times already in great detail.

All you went into great detail was explaining how your cat got diabetes but that is your usual 'go-to' strategy when asked about something specific. Go on an irrelevant tangent or name drop like your random art dump of other people or this gem:

And I've worked with people from all over the world that worked on Halo, GTA, Assassin's Creed, etc.

And what relevance does it have? Doesn't say how important these people were or how closely you worked with them that would have allowed you to learn from them. Just wank name dropping nothing more.

Yet actual results over the last 4 months are nothing apart from some concept art and we have discussed it already to no end. Or you want to point me towards something I missed before you cry with assumptions again.

A game is a game, whatever the platform is, games are ruled by the same universal principles. Your ''lolmobile'' just shows that you do not have a good understanding of game development and it's fine, you are probably not a game developer and there is nothing wrong with that. And for the record, Modern Combat Domination wasn't a mobile game, it runs on Playstation 3 and Mac. And I worked on 2 other PC games, one got cancelled and the other is Thief 4.

It's laughable that you are trying to judge a person based on the past games he worked on, because the reality of a production is that game devs are working for their leads and HQ. If a producer wants you to add a game breaking element to your map, you'll add it even if you do not agree with the decision. You'll work on a CoD clone even if you think it's the stupidest idea in the world.

It's a job. A game developer could be super passionate about FPS games and only work during his career on RPGs. That's just life. And I know many gamers that better understand games than most designers out there, but they just don't have the balls to get their foot in the video games industry.

Now if a game developer wants to do what needs to be done or work on the games he wants to work on, usually the best way is to go indie.

And you are there talking about how the project didn't progress during the past months, of course it didn't as DG is pretty much on hold until I'm done with my 3D courses.

Principles are the same but subtleties can have a tremendous effect. If you say the opposite, then why are PC gamers suffering from poorly ported games over years and years? It's different hardware and input/output devices. I would say that a good keyboard and mouse are the most precise input devices you can get and a good monitor is a much more responsive device than any portable device or TV.

This becomes very important when developing a competitive PC title. You can probably get away with crap input handling and latency on handhelds and consoles because the clumsy input devices smudge out the lacking game. However this becomes very annoying with a good mouse. I had to play quite a lot of unreal to get a good feeling for the game because taking peek shots would too often result in hitting edges on the map and tracking was annoying too. That is something you would barely ever notice and have to consider for the other platforms but on PC it's a sin.

I have no idea why you think I judge you personally from the games. All I did was to evaluate your capabilities based on your past projects, because you love to remind everyone how much you have been in game development and honestly that I found nothing that would impress me about your portfolio.

And you are there talking how the project didn't progress during the past months, of course it didn't as DG is pretty much on hold until I'm done with my 3D courses.

Then why would you post a thread so we can follow the dev process if you are just still learning and not doing a thing on the game? I could claim that I am working out a Theory of Everything, that will unite all 4 forces of nature and be of quantum and relativistic nature, while I am still an undergraduate physics student. It's a ridiculous and empty claim. Just as yours at the moment.

When I first created this thread, my goal was to make a game prototype of DG in order to acquire investors and get enough funding to open a small studio to make the game centered o nthe DG universe. But during the process, I literally fell in love with all aspects of the production and now I'm willing to turn myself into a fully independent game developer. That will finally allow me to fully materialize my thoughts and I won't have to depend on anything or anyone. That's freedom, that's heaven, that's priceless.

DG is still real, it's not going anywhere.

But look at how you entered this forum.

"I'm just passing by to announce that Tidal Blast Entertainment, an independent game company from the Montreal region (Canada), is currently working on Deft Grinders, a competitive FPS game"

"And I'm a self-taught 3D artist, 3D animator and programmer "

It turned out you can't do any of that and you're taking classes in all those disciplines.

Its crazy TBH.

Jamerio, it turned out that you can't even get your facts straight.

I can design, level design, code, animate and make 3D stuff since 2007. But there is a big difference between something that looks better than Quake 3 and current gen. And I want DG to be on par with current gen.

Now I'm almost done with the 3D stuff and I feels as if I started to work on DG yesterday. It feels great. And tomorrow I'll be able to do everything and Jamerio will still have nothing smart to say.

I can't get my facts straight?

Firstly, I never said anything in that reply about you being unable to design, level design, but given I have not seen anything and witnessed your over inflation of your other skills I won't hold my breath.

I question your ability to code given you already admitted this..

"I had web programming classes when I studied multimedia.
Scripting classes when I studied level design.
I've been scripting (Kismet-like editor) stuff for the last 4 years for AI behaviors, gametypes prototyping, missions, etc.
And I'm learning UnrealScript and C++ by myself."

"I can design, level design, code, animate and make 3D stuff since 2007. But there is a big difference between something that looks better than Quake 3 and current gen. And I want DG to be on par with current gen."

So once again when probed we see things fall to bits, when you made the initial post you were NOT talking about something like quake 3.

So why did you talk yourself up like you were someone with the required skills for a next gen game?

Anyone reading this right now could learn how to code, animate, do 3d in a weekend, the difference is, their skills would do little more than model a 3D cube, and spin around in 3D and print a message on screen.

You would not realistically expect such people to describe themselves as 3D artists, animators coders, but its what you'e done (at least in comparison to the initial image you gave off of redefining competitive FPS games)

People here are only putting the right to the wrongs out there and given you made a promise to deliver something they might want to play, them they have every right to do that.

You were at least a year too early with this stuff, you could have come here with a nice 3D character model in a nice sections of a level, with some cool looking demo.

Instead I think you really blew it in relation to what you intended.
I know you'll perceive that as jealousy, or me not being qualified to talk to you, but I'm pretty confident most people in the game industry would agree this was not well executed.

Don't start with Jamerio, he won't ever stop and you can't win. I would like to quote myself, "I would just cool off from posting here until you have some tangible stuff to show us, don't leave a bad taste in people's mouths by being arrogant and combative."

Hey Tidal Blast, you should keep us updated with contents from your game only if possible, I know what it feels like when you are on the other side (you have to deliver, people have expectations etc), I can only wish you good luck, and I hope you'll make people with negative comments shut up with what you will achieve. I like a lot that you want to be free and be independent, I think the same, but sometimes being alone in a big project isn't always good, your plan of opening a small studio was also a very good idea. Anyway these are no advices probably, so cheer up!

to summarise FFT,

D-

There is a thread over at http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=273542 which is discussing your latest piece of work, and the opinions over there are pretty much the same as here,

I can see you're keen to hide behind your game experience (and mostly the skill set of others), but the reality is when you have no one to hide behind there is next to nothing to see despite months gone by.

While its nice you seem to have developed a thick skin, its actually a hindrance because if you're not accepting the things people are justifiably telling you are wrong, then you're not going to do anything about them.

Get over it. Obviously you didn't get the joke.

why did you draw that dude with his o-face on?

reminds me of shitty saturday morning cartoons.

Did I miss the open beta stage already?

99% troll

Daft Grinders

Forgive me, Jamerio. The only time I see your posts is when I'm browsing before I log in. I also only read the "developer's" butthurt in this thread. I probably gave up on it too early.

Just post tangible effects of your progress, you won't get anywhere arguing with people, especially after you linked those concept art pics. You're not really making a strong case for yourself posting stuff that looks like it was lifted from some kid on Deviantart.

I know that some people really hated the look of the first character model that I've made a few months ago, so I decided to work on a new base character model for the two factions.

http://tidalblastentertainment.com/category/news/

arms/legs could use some more muscles.

Yeah that's quite a good point actually. I'll fix that. And I got feedbacks from friends and we found out that the top part of the legs was too low. I fixed that already.

I remade the legs and improved several other things. I added a bit more details to the arms, but I'm not planning to add too much there by design. More like a well-trained ninja and less like a body builder.

http://tidalblastentertainment.com/category/news/

Or
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/856/v26s.jpg

not enough bulge

You should make characters furry.

Instant success.

I do

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/35/mhd4.jpg

I changed the proportions the overall shape of the body to make the character look more like a ninja and less like Arnold Shwarzenburger. With the armor and clothes, should be good.

Img 1
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/809/yxj6.jpg

Img 2
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/7/lslx.jpg

And as I said before, it's a walk in the park to learn 3D, game programming, animation, etc. It just takes a bit of time, but it's worth it. What is 6 months or a year when you look back and it feels like yesterday...

If you are a gamer and aren't happy with the current state of the video games industry, you can actually learn a couple of months how to make all by yourself decent games. Schools aren't bad, but they take a bit more time, homeworks are long.

It needs moar fur to satisfy the degenerates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pO7Ds4zd8w

that game looks pretty cool but this furry shit is an instant turn off

why he has no dick ??????

It's fun to see how 80's kids who have witnessed the prime time of fast-paced shooters like Quake and Unreal, are now turning 30 and dream of getting those times back. We already have a handful of amateur projects announced here, inspired by the same nostalgiс feelings and almost 2 decades old game design. Hell, even CliffB is quietly reflecting on this.

And you know what? Mojang is the new id sotfware of today, and Minecraft is the new Doom, you like it or not. Doom, Quake and Unreal were the celebration of multiplayer PC gaming, and now we are celebrating a completely difference chapter of its history - social gaming - which is not about challenging players, but about entertaining them.

You wonder what's next? Multiplayer touch-based games on starbucks coffee cups by 2020. Affordable sex androids by 2025. You name it by 2030. The future is awesome, but it's now about hardcore gaming, sorry.

*NOT about hardcore gaming

sorry for myriads of typos, folks :)

It has nothing to do with nostalgia. FPS games are like combat sports, it's a lifestyle. It won't go away anytime soon. We got a decade of casual Call of Duty that introduced new players, but now it's time for the core players of the genre to get the games they've been waiting for since Quake 3, Unreal, Tribe,s Counter Strike and SoF2.

http://imageshack.com/a/img822/3586/9taa.jpg

Little update here and in the next one I'll add the clothes. But I got a problem with the head that I need to fix and I did not find a workaround yet.

And I've been able, with school, to start modeling one of the weapons, the Stake Rifle (still work in progress).

Weapon - Stake Rifle (WIP)
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1525x858q90/560/qgw7.jpg

If you are going to work on this as part of your education it is worth checking the schools IP policies. I know here in the UK it is standard policy for universities to own any work you create.

That's a good point. I verified that already and it's all good. The only thing they can do is have the right to show the works I've made to future students. That's all.

hahahahaa the fuckin state of that rifle

I know, right? I'm sorry it doesn't look like this yet.

http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2008080.../Rl3_g.png

Don't worry, it's going to look a lot better in DG. I've done that model in one of my 3D classes. I was limited to a steampunk theme and 1024x1024 diffuse material. The final version will not be limited to a steampunk theme (wood/metal/leather), will be redesigned and I'm going to use a 2048x2048 texture (1024x1024 is 1/4 of that size). It will look a lot better.

Elegance > Texture size

Why would you compare something made in 2014 vs something made in 1997?

It just makes you look like a philistine.

if only the quake3 rocket launcher had a knuckle duster built into it then people might still be playing it 10+ years later

What is the belt for? Why is there wood and electronics on the same device? Are you planning an overheat feature that blows the gun up after too much use?

Big news!
http://tidalblastentertainment.com/category/news/

I updated the new character model, Deft Grinders: VR Training is officially powered by Unity 4x and the targeted platforms are:

- Windows
- Mac
- Linux
- PS4
- Xbox One

I know the last time we talked about DG, I said that I was going to use Project Anarchy, but I'm really not happy with the current state of the engine, the PA community is too slow to help and I had a really bad experience with the Havok Sales Team. Maybe in 2-3 years PA will be good, but now it isn't.

And here is a direct link to the updated character model (work in progress).

http://tidalblastentertainment.files.wordpres...er_wip.jpg

Does unity allow raw mouse input?

Yes.

I'm almost done with the sculpting of the first character model.
http://imageshack.com/a/img17/4563/9my1.jpg

Fear the Grinders...

so hows the actual game part coming along?

Characters are an important part of the game.

why do you never answer questions directly?

how is the actual game part coming along?

If I'm currently busy sculpting the character model and am working solo, I'm not coding anything, so why do you even ask the question?

He never asked about coding, he said...

"so hows the actual game part coming along?"

And he said it twice in row, not only did you miss that, but you then responded in a way as if you were so convinced in what he said.

Dude, English isn't my fluent language. I can think of multiple senses to game part, so please can one of you clarify the meaning of the whole sentence? If it meant, the actual character in game, well, I'm still in zbrush so the character isn't yet low poly, skinned or animated either. If it meant the actual game in Unity, well I need to make a couple of models first that I'll later need to code menus and gameplays.

shape of legs is a bit weird (the position of shanks and their shape to be more precisely. they're too far "behind" and (hence) curved in a unreal way)

That's by design and so far most people agreed that it makes the character looks more powerful and faster on his feet I'm assuming that you are talking of the calves, right?). The same way the characters in Gears of War are unrealistically bigger. I still greatly value your feedback and will make changes if too many people find them weird.

If you are talking of the font side of the leg (tibia + ankle curve), the weird cruve that you see from the side, that was rectified in previous versions, but as the character now has clothes, the modification cannot be seen.

Dude, English isn't my fluent language.

(tibia + ankle curve)

I added more details to the character. I'll add a few more, then finish the face and jump on retopology, texturing, etc.

http://tidalblastentertainment.files.wordpres..._day09.jpg

Getting there.

Bottom to top.

1) Looks like he's wearing break dancer trainers, must go.
2)The boots/calves are really wide, he's gonna look stubby in game.
3) The knee pads must go or get less primitive.
4) His right hand looks fat.
5) The upper body armor trim looks like pastry.
6) Facial hair looks odd, probably better off rough shaven or at least till you can replace the polys with some kind of alpha texture/fur.

I'm always constructive if there is something worth being constructive for.

1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5. Although Jamerio can't count because he didn't finish high school, he is very famous in the video game industry. You'll go far with his advice.

Whats the polycount on that mesh?

Since that model was made in Zbrush, it has over 22,000,000 polygons. With the retopology and baking of the normal maps, it's going to be more around less than 20,000 polygons.

oki, got a bit curious when you said you had tried it inside unity.

Ah, reminds of trying to explain that concept to port, poor soul was above his pay grade though.

"they might use zbrush for concept art, they model game charectors from scratch, you cannot export a 4 million poly model, load it up in lightwave, maya etc and remove 3,998,000 polys and still end up with a model that is usable and recognisable"

http://www.esreality.com/post/2353519/far-cry...nimations/

RIP P0rt.

Could you do me a favor and not dig up anymore old threads where you add new posts and claim victory over someone. That way it will be easier for me to believe that you are a normal guy who doesn't take this place too seriously.

Thanks.

Suck my Jube.

How rude.

Yeah, well.... If someone isn't familiar with the workflow and are interested:

Basically the 3D artist will create or receive a concept art, before he starts to model a 3D object (weapon, character, vehicle, etc.).

If you have to create something architectural or hard surface, it would be recommended to use a software such as 3DS Max Studio or Maya to modeling that kind of props.

If it's a character, creature, rocks or anything else organic, then ZBrush is a fantastic tool. Zbrush basically allows the user to create or import a 3D model and add subdivisions to it, because in order to sculpt an object or on one, the more polygons you have, the better you'll be able to deform the object and sculpt it. However, as you deform the object, it also becomes more difficult to manipulate those polygons, so Zbrush also gives you the necessary tools (Zremesher & Dynamesh) to perform a retopology that will re-create proper loops of polygons aroun the new shape. So, that's why a 3D model made in Zbrush as so many polygons: to properly sculpt it, so it's not a proper topology for a game asset. Once the 3D object done in Zbrush is good enough, the 3D artist will use the Decimation master to create a model with decent enough polycount, so that he can export and import it in 3DS Max to manually re-create a new topology, this time optimized for a game engine.

The magic trick happens right after this. The 3D artist will export his high poly model from zbrush that has millions of polygons in .obj format that he will import in a software called xNormals. He will also import his low poly object (with the new retopolgy done in 3DS Max) and bake on it from the high poly what we call Normals map.

Ex:
http://features.cgsociety.org/newgallerycrits..._large.jpg

That simple trick is precisely why graphics got stagant recently, because we reached a point where there isn't much difference between a character with 20,000 polygons VS another with 22,000,000 polygons, simply because the overall shape is almost identical to the human eye. ANd with the current generation of consoles (Xbox One and PS4), we reached the point where we can finally sculpt in great detail an entire character in the smallest details.

You guys may not realize this, but that's an enormous leap forward for the video games industry and artists.

So now, what matters most are the new lighting technologies (voxels), 3D animations, physics, shaders and high res textures. And unfortunately, the current Xbox one and PS4 aren't strong enough to fully take advantage of the new wave of technologies, so the best way to enjoy the next generation of games is definitely on PC right now.

"...new lighting technologies (voxels)"

I'm no expert, but what do voxels have to do with lighting? I thought voxels were basically "volumetric pixels"?

Global Illumination with Voxel Cone Tracing for the Unity engine
http://youtu.be/Z1o_CCHhBTQ

Ok, so he used voxels for some global illumination algorithm. Can't we already do global illumination in realtime? If so, what's significant about using voxels?

http://realtimevoxels.blogspot.ca/

Ok, so they are using voxels for some global illumination algorithm. Can't we already do global illumination in realtime? If so, what's significant about using voxels?

It means you're going to get slightly better looking games at the cost of frame rate. Same thing as its always been with graphics.

When you use the term realtime GI that usually means its more to do with it working in a real time engine, but its usually baked in at the start, this will allow it to be more dynamic, similar to what they did with those moving shadows in doom 3, but on a less notable scale as instead of focusing on shadows, the emphasis appears to be on the reflected colour of in game geometry which is a lot more subtle.

Doom 3 was probably the last fundamentally visually impressive game you'll see in a long time.

dude you should do game development!

As a noob in terms of graphics rendering, is this some interesting development or is it negligible?

Nah that's complete overkill, in graphics you can do the same thing in various ways, some ways are fast and look crap, other ways look good but run slow.

The best way is somewhere in between something which looks as good as it can while maintains a decent frame rate on the median hardware.

Ray tracing as seen in that video adds tiny improvements in non important areas (reflections) but requires huge huge hardware upgrades to get them.

IN short, its like suggesting everyone has a ferrari as an everyday car, sounds good, but when you put it into practice, you realise its just not practical.

I totally favor gameplay over graphics, but lighting is the most important, it changes everything. That voxel cone tracing is finally a tech that finally seems to make a significant difference, so when the hardware is going to be able to run this at 60fps steady, it's definitely going to become the new standard. But right now, dynamic lighting isn't worth it yet.

1) Thx, I'll change that.
2) Interesting point. I'll see what I can do about that. But last time I checked in Unity, it looked oky.
3) DG takes place in a very primitve sci-fi/fantasy world and I thought that the pads were very well representative of that lol.
3) I'll see what I can do about that.
4) Hahaha, maybye. It's made of a material that pretty much looks like leather.
5) Hair and facial hair in zbrush aren't final. At some point I'll add planes. What you see there is what goes under. I'll also add a few planes for the fur.

Thx for the feedback. Agreed, very constructive.

Make him stop the bullshit!

http://esreality.com/post/2573573/re-origin-o...pid2573573

Hey wazzup everyone!

I couldn't be happier. Epic Games just released Unreal Engine 4! That's the engine I wanted for DG from day 1, but when I first started the project, UE4 just wasn't ready yet, so I had to find a temporary alternative. Fortunately for me, I didn't have much time this year to work on DG, because of my intensive 3D modeling courses, so the transition to UE4 is going to be very smooth. The timing is great, because in 2-3 weeks I'll finally have spare time to work on DG. And I just recently added Substance Designer 4 & Painter to my workflow, it's going to be a lot of fun.

By the way, someone asked to see an in-game version of the character model I've done in Zbrush, well here is a sneak peek! (still work in progress)

http://tidalblastentertainment.files.wordpres...2390_o.jpg

Its been 3 years, can I haz a look now please?

nevermind, website has been taking over and links 404'in.

Told ya'll I smelled a rat.

Yep, what a joke he was.