:S dota n shit is all good, but some ql stuff here and there, every few months or smth, would be neat.

REBORN!

Seriously though, I believe they guy when he says he hasn't given up and is still working on it. Still got my fingers crossed for a great game from 2GD.

I hope he can shut the mouths of all the negative people who never believed a word he said.

Thorin is on fire! He's everywhere, on streams, cs:go, quakelive, on podcasts...

this morning I opened up a can of sardines and ...

Was excited at first seeing GRILLED and 2GD in one headline, then checked time line of topics and it wasn't satisfying at all.
tl;dw version: Dota2/LoL.

56:56.

Thank you. That should be in bold though :D

It should! I felt the same way as you when I read through the topics discussed and was about to ragequit. :D

Added to the op.

thanks!

Oh Memento, you're ESR admin now? Hey, can't you edit the schedule on the right to point at the current Prague LAN update? We can't get anyone to do it since update #2 :/

You mean like this?

Also the link on the right could point to the latest news if it's possible.. either way, thanks!

What link on the right? Need to be more specific.

Scheduled Listings

In 03:02 - 125 FPS September League,1st Group Stage (20*)
In 10 days - Prague TDM LAN UPDATE (160)
In 12 days - Prague TDM LAN UPDATE #4 (73)


Those are links, they're on the right.

First one has correct date, second correct link :)


And thank you!

I don't see the Scheduled Listings, but I assume it's generated from whatever post has a schedule attached. I removed the schedule to the first post. I assume clicking on the second one will lead to the update #4, rather than the first one, but that sounds acceptable to me, no?

That's exactly what we wanted, yes :)

But it starts on Friday the 20th (you should know, you plan to show up I heard).

If you don't see Scheduled Listings and want to - Site -> Preferences -> Sideboxes -> Scheduled Listings :)

Fixed the "here" link :)

Baww he didn't talk about the things I wanted :(

Good luck with Reborn 2GD!!!

Ow yesss ! 2gd interview ! I'll check that one when I'm back home :)

ppl still belive reborn will be released, and will be a good game?:>

Please list the reasons why people shouldn't, I have no idea why people are so skeptic and I would like to know.

3 main reasons:

-2gd

as far as i like his cuntish personality, and hes a great caster, and was skilled player in his q4 days, he has very little experiance in game developement. afaik he was involved in bloodline champions, a game that did fail hard.

-arena shooter gameplay

arena shooters are not interesting anymore, cause you actually need some skill to play them. and thats not interesting for majority of pc gamers, who prefer leveling in cod or bf.

-quake community

quakers nowadays are faggots who dont accept any game that isnt 1:1 q3 remake or has perfect gameplay since start. thats why we all play ql instead of q4. and i dont have to say how hard it is to make a game that is good[not bugged etc] since release.

2GD was in charge of a very specific part of BLC which worked exactly as it should; the game itself may have failed, I don't know about that.

I think that 2GD, fox, and fazz has what it takes to create an interesting game out of the box simply because they don't care about fancy names and gimmicks but hardcore game mechanics. They have someone working on the engine and the artwork aren't their resposibility either, so about "developing the game", I wouldn't worry about anything else than the choices they make regarding gameplay.

fazz is not on the team, nor he sticks to 2gd. he said this to me like half a year ago.

gameplay rules are the part thats not my concern [except 2gd being faggot and making railgun op]. however no matter how great gamplay in theory will be with bad engine/coding the game will be horrible to play.

And regarding the engine, I don't think 2GD will release something that feels like UT3.

fazz is about for ideas and his creativity and testing the mechanics. Also 2GD is a business man and he's good at that aspect and that's what he's doing with Reborn.

I dont know why you would make stuff up. I don't know you, and cant remember ever talking to you. I am on the team, and has stuck with him since the start of the project.

lol.

i didnt excpect you to remember our conversation and stomping me on cure twice, but why did you misinform me in the first place?


you said you dont hang out with 2gd anymore

Believe annoying, faggot hitsu or cool, Swedish nerd sex machine fazz?

as sheeps work in very simple manner, the outcome is easy to predict.

however inteligent human being would ask himself, why would i lie in the first place, considering fazz is somewhere around, ready to correct me.

i assume he just did misunderstood my question, creating this whole situation

Intelligent human being also know that 6 months old information coming from a random quick chat exchange between two strangers is probably not the base to make a statement on the current state of things.

i was working with data i got directly from person of interest. he had no reasons to lie to me, so it had to be valid at that point.

atm it could be outdated, but its not a serious problem for me, and i would simply admit i didnt know about the change and apologize for misinformation.

Brilliantly said Sir ;-)

I think you read in to "not hanging out" too much =)

Because that is true as in, I don't cast over there in the house anymore.

yeah apparently :-) small misunderstanding :-)

sowwy for spreading false info about your involvement

Thanks. Those reasons is mostly concerning the small narrow-minded arena shooter community and advertisement though. I still personally believe that it's possible that it gets released and ends up being a good game.

There are a lot of people like 2gd who have a great vision and idea.
In this regards 2gd is a bussines man and he is doing what he allready talked about in the interview....funding, presenting the studio and being frontman of the game ect.
His black on white written concept is really good if you look at it. Going that way if the game at the release cost from 20-30$ and will be funded further by buying newer maps and taking a percentage of the purchase the thing itself could be a winner like torchlight 2 or even unreleased grim dawn (like 1000 folds better than d3 and they have like less than 10 men full time staff). So why should reborn be different ?

Arena shooter gameplay? Really? The game he is working on is in his vision something to be an esport game and fast paced but more modern plus with an editor to freely make new arenas or mods. That sum of description should be an arena shooter which requires skill and has collectibles on the map and not another cod, bf, cs port.

Quake Community? this is an oximoron by itself since all gaming community is like that, 90% of them stick to what they are used to. If it's not exactly playable like cpma, q2, q3, q4, ut, cod, bf, cs they will bash about it and won't accept the game. The thing is NONE of these mentioned games haven't had perfect gameplay on release. q3 it took about 1-2 years to mature and become good, cpma? o boy YEARS, q4? same as q3 but quite gfx heavy and people where unwillng to invest in new machines to play not so great game with small community - later the game became good but with lack of community :/ , cod first installement with bugs similar to that of q3 (future installments where just better gfx and new models, but also with some bugs).

Overall the game is being made for community by someone who is part of the community, there are also good players involved in it to give perspective. When project comes out on kickstarter I'm sure they all will or he himself will be the person to speak and talk to the fans about ideas, tweaks and all of whats neccessary to release a decent game. That's why there will for sure be some internal alpha testing, and possibly beta testing for (bigger funders on KS if done wright).

his not polish we can trust him

name one polak that did steal your shoes

psheshke psheskowic

sorry m8, theres no sh in polish. it was some russian prolly

you know polish really bad, polish steal that sh syllable and use it everywhere.

shure we do

theres no sh in polish.

read again > polish

But then I got drunk. rofl. what a GD way to end it.

too much moba

2GD about Reborn:
"In a year and a half i want something playable, with a community"

i highly doubt it but i hope he'll prove me wrong

If what ql has now is considered a community, then why not.
Or in the worst case, what Warsaw has :P

Warsaw has about 2,000,000 active people.

Damn Red Army & Wehrmacht did a shit job. Either dat or you reproduce like bunnies.

:(

It sounded funnier in my head.
:>>

I hate it when that happens.

A friend of mine introduced me to this girl and we all talked about some country having a parade where some 12 year old girl were to be a sex symbol of some kind.

I can't remember the exact words but i made a joke about that being perfectly normal. My friend understood that it was a joke and laughed but the girl thought that i where serious so she were really upset about it and thought i endorsed pedophilia. So she refused to talk to me after that. So i kinda blew my chances with her. :(

EXACTLY ;V

She doesn't have a sense of humor anyways, so fuck her.
(basing this solely on you landing an amazing joke that blew right over her head)

All my jokes are always amazing. It's just that people are to stupid to realize that i'm funny!

if she was that stupid then you didn't miss much. Unless she was smoking hot, then you miss a great opportunity my friend)

She was kinda hot. But she must have been really stupid to think that i would endorse pedophilia in a public place.

But i have met far dumber women then that.

Would you in a private place, though?

No

are u kidding me?

It used to be 4,000,000. But half of them are using TOR through the UK now so it messes up the figures.

thorin is the only guy who should be allowed to do interviews. ever.

Not trying to bash Thorin, but imho pretty much anyone is able to make a good interview with high/drunk 2GD.

2gd wasn't high or drunk?

anyway thorin did a 100 interviews, and they were ALL either good or awesome

56:56 The problem of Reborn not having emerged at all yet, after one year of talking about it.

lemme guess, funding? :>

Jay's reborn ambition is akin to an old mans erection, plenty of heart and desire behind it, but ultimately you just know its not going to work out.

You are a complete and utter cretin.

Next time, try to write something that makes sense.

-cenek

Why did you sign your post?

Because Jamerio made a picture with (roughly) the text that's in his post now that he edited it. Signed by Jamerio, I assume for future reference so that when Reborn fails we can all look back and say, "Damn, just like Jamerio said".

More like he will be the only one still on ESR in two years.

that only means that jamerio finally won

The Jamming is imminent, an event comparable to Armageddon and the apocalypse.

lame brains everywhere.

[img2]

img1lol

Nothing like a bafta pic to stir ESR's most biggest victims of gaming.

And just think, it was always intended to be that way :>

most biggest

Raged to the point that his grammar collapses -- just like a true Jam-Jam.

Comment #33

I'm sorry you're still pissed about that.
http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=2060998

It's just entertaining to make fun of you every once in a while. I'm not pissed about anything. It seems like you are, though, given that you are keen on providing the link to some random discussion within minutes.

You had replied to me within minutes.

Your continued attempt to attain bizzare correlations from laxed grammar and post times are amusing, and ultimately amount to someone with a desire, but no ability to do what I have done to you on a genuine basis.

I am simply too intelligent for you and your little group of co-depedant gaming drop outs.

If its true about you wanting to make fun, its only because of something I have installed in you first, so I would be happy for you to do that as it still tells me you're still not satisfied about something.

That'll do nicely, thanks!

To be honest I think it's tempting for us others to make fun of you as well. It doesn't even have anything to do with you 'installing' anything anywhere.

You just try too hard.

I don't care about your so-called bafta, I just think you're an idiot.

I just feel like a black guy has insulted me for not being white.
When you get yourself a bafta in a demographic you could only talk about on the internet, then I'll take your pearls of wisdom on board.

Until then, your perceived views stemming from your own lack of intelligence are nothing. Not even when you form those little groups you do to try and buy the perception among you, that's just like a shawl of fish running from a shark to avoid being eaten.

Good, now go and be a good little boys, check your torrent folder for something to dull your brains with, refresh your little gaming browsers for your socially acceptable habbits until dole day and fuck off back to noddy land.

I think you should stop the bafta claim in order to stop being maintained by your family before you reach 40

I was actually gonna edit my post to something less offensive and less straight forward, but. What the fuck.

What on Earth are you babbling about. Goddamn nonsense. Your SO CALLED bafta doesn't make the slightest difference, on this site people don't like you because you're a dick. Who gives a crap about a bafta, whether you(r team) actually won it or not, when you act like a complete asshole.

Your post makes no sense anyway. "refresh your little gaming browsers", you say, as if gaming is all we (=users at ESR) do, when all yours posts about what a gaming prodigy you are (...) only shows that you must have spent more hours in (any given) game than more of the ESR-folks.

Your left arm looks weird, almost deformed. What's up with that? It's not just being fat it's something else...

I was fisting your dad the night before and his sphincter clamped down real hard when I brushed his prostate.

Its back to normal now.

wow

you were fisting my dad? sphincter? prostate? clamped?

holy fuck jamie!

xD

you officially tripped over the basement dwelling edge. this is gold.

what's the woman with the baby all about

No clue, really :/

You're missing the point. Old Jammy is experienced with the erections of old men. That's all he was trying to say.

you can't be that old

2 G D
G
D

Lol, look at the hair cut, that's not 2GD, it's Konrad 'Adenauer' Saal.

no

it's a what?

10/10 didn't watched

LoL? lol.

I feel safe if I say I'll admin again when Reborn is out :)

which is never?

You never know

Good

nice interview. too bad it apparently was conducted in a hangar:]

http://imgur.com/bRq4r3V

what the fuck is an LCS ?

virally transmitted disease

I think he is talking about Lagrangian coherent structures.

Lagrangian coherent structures are structures which separate dynamically distinct regions in time-varying systems such as turbulent flows in fluid mechanics. They can be defined in terms of finite-time Lyapunov exponents based on a frame-independent description of the system in terms of Lagrangian mechanics. Finite-time Lyapunov exponents can be used to find separatrices in time-dependent systems, which are often analogous to stable and unstable manifolds of time-independent systems. These separatrices are Lagrangian Coherent Structures. These structures divide dynamically distinct regions in the flow and reveal geometry which is often hidden when viewing the vector field or even trajectories of the system. Therefore these structures often provide a nice tool in analyzing systems with general time-dependence, especially for understanding transport.

Indeed, Mr. fast furrier transform.

It's Fast Fourier Transformers coming to cinemas near you 2015.

netflix plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Well that depends on the success of the movie "The Fast and the Fouriers"

Im with you James! Great interview too.

2GD not gonna cast in FaceIt soon i guess :D

Dota lol

just this: Yames always delivers.

that blue lanyard holder was truely mesmerizing against whiteman in whiteroom

also what is reborn

2gd is nice guy. don't push him with reborn. I am thinking positive about game, if it will come, it's ok, if not, ok, we will lose anything..

Reborn or not Reborn, we'll play dead quake in 2035 as usual.

Would a quakestyle reborn based on skill>popular demand be successfull?

discuss

probably not. flashy gfx and nonstop achievements/unlocks is what drives the current generation. (not to mention quake is simply a game for the elite on multiple levels :P )

i just hope they keep trying to make a heavy skill based game anyway ;_;

I always wondered why the concept does not work for quake but for starcraft ever since.

sure different gametype, playerbase over 9000, more history but why did the q3 masses disappear and the sc didnt? or do they but there is constant fresh supply?

edit: lets ignore the strong competition of the last years for a moment.

How many competitive RTS games

There has been a shit ton more (semi-) competitive FPS games than there have been competitive RTS games.

What alternatives to sc has there been? I can only think of wc3, which a lot of people switched to and back to sc2 again. Blizzard owns the competitive RTS genre. Dawn of War etc do not compare.

Console fps games, ID software not being interested in maintaining QL properly etc.

sc2 is up to date anno 2013 though, quakelive is still q3 with minor enhancements and that just doesnt cut it.

ingame it needs a whole community hub, ladders to get equal skill to play eachother. a way for custom maps to get played, and refreshing the map pool constantly. the hub needs to show whats going on in the pro gaming world, spelling out in detail when tourneys happen and how to watch them etc.

honestly its too early for me atm so i cant come up with much more, but theres a large gap in development, quake is running the old format and thats just working against itself :x

how often does sc2 change its map list?

dont know what they currently do, havent pld it in a long long time. but they just keep putting new ones into the pool and remove unplayed ones. i remember a map veto system, just select everything you like and they get to stay the longest.

Every new ladder season. Not sure how often that is though, maybe 3-4 months? Also they don't change it completely every time, only the least played maps or the totally unbalanced ones.

Starcraft 2 was pretty much Starcraft 1, only somewhat-butchered by idiot developers, and fed tens of thousands of players by WoW beta keys + usual Blizzard hype.

My guess is that a very small number of people knew anything about competitive / melee StarCraft back in 1997 - 2007, so the gameplay of SC2 was this amazing thing they had never experienced before. Most everybody knows about Quake, but it's just some old game they played single-player with, and fucked around with for about 2 hours online before bailing. If 2GD can show these poor fools a few Russians, there is virtually no chance of him not succeeding at making "Reborn" a gigantic fucking hit.

as a competitive game sc2 is to sc:bw what cod is to q3/ql.

It is made for casual wow players and is honestly boring as shit to play. What made the original starcraft competitive and exciting were raw mechanics and the difficulty of the interface. It took years of practice to learnt how to macro or even move around a MnM or Tank/Vulture/Goliath army. The game was much more position based. If the opponent took position at a choke point and or some high ground you were fuck out of luck. Sc2 is about two constantly moving death balls the combat is usually a couple of spells and then the AI resolves the conflict in a matter of seconds.

My point is sc2 has taken the skill out of starcraft and dustin browder made it into another command and conquer game where the strategy is based on perfect counters and obtaining good army compositions nothing else.

Sure the game is much easier and much more fun for casuals thus much more popular and thus it has a bigger player base to build a pro-scene on top of it. Sure it takes some skill but it is boring mechanical skill, just like shootmania, the better player will win but it does not allow for a lot of different skill sets to express themselves.

The one thing you could take away from sc2 is the nicely done game system. A quick and easy matchmaking, divisions and small ladders that would always give you the illusion of dynamically climbing up to the top, while you are actually still fighting not to be at the very bottom of the pile. The locality of your competition sort of makes you feel more important, while it doesn't create an ambiguity about who really is the champion.

my point would be quake doesnt need the success sc2 has if the price that one needs to pay is dumbing it down to such a level, however, quake would benefit from a facelift and nicer user interface and social aspects

well u clearly sound like an scbw fanboy, but i do agree with you upto a point. i just think sc2 can be played at the same high level as scbw, but its been made more accessable. so now its fun at both high and low skill levels.

for ex; box selecting a large army instead of a few units, the newbies can a-move and the pros can work with smaller armies up to the point their APM cant keep up.

just keep in mind that creating a followup to starcraft was always going to be hell. the complexity that was reached after a decade of patching and balancing was gone when sc2 launched. they had a big picture, but with new units come new challenges and the cycle starts over again. sc2 as it is now isnt that bad really, infact i think its the most balanced game in its genre by far.

Well I guess yeah you caught me red handed when calling me a scbw fanboy.

scbw didnt have a decade of patches, actually it had very few patches that changed gamepaly (150mineral spawning pool ggnore, imba reavers etc) early on and the later ones were just performance and such stuff.

Yeah SC2 can be played on a high level, so can be LoL and shootmania. My displeasure of the game stems from the fact that it doesn't allow for much character. One of the major reasons for that is the lack of character for each race. Sure T/Z/P have huge differences but they all seem gimmicky to me.

In scbw on a surface all the race mechanics were much less apparent but from the subtle differences each race played completely different. In sc2 you have all kinds of macro gimmicks like warpgates and different addons but at the end of the day all you have are different kinds of death balls rolling around the map...

If you compare how a casual sc2 game looks like to a pro sc2 game, you don't see such a drastic change as if you make the same comparison to a scbw pro game to an scbw casual game.

thats just like, your opinion, man.

both games bore me these days, and its up to the pros to use their 500 apm for micro other than spam, if they dont then yeah itl look boring either way.

No offense but your statements really really makes it sound like you were a skeptic BW fanatic that tried out SC2 the game, confirmed that the game was more user friendly and in general just different from BW, then didn't really follow the game and tournaments very closely and now still base your opinion on your initial experiences from a couple of years ago.

None taken and I tried. I was skeptical but I believe for a very good reasons. Sure you can say it is all my opinion that also has some truth to it. But I believe that a lot of the things that bother me with sc2 are more or less fact and the opinion is whether you mind it or not.

And trust me if you had not been blinded by he hype you wouldn't have to try hard to disappointed by Sc 2. I don't think you should push an unfinished product as an esport and tell your fans it is going to get better.

Also I think it's part game design but the game was patched too quickly. Without giving the time to work out and see if there are viable strategies in the current framework.

I could go on but it is going off topic real fast and I don't mean to convince any one, but I also believe there is more behind the dislike than just plain fanboyism for the first one.

We can very quickly agree that BW was more demanding in mechanical skills, but the fact remains that SC2 is still a game with incredible high skill ceiling.

BW's requirement of high apm and raw mechanical skills to even play the game properly, was due to bad in game mechanics and control. Of course it gets easier when and less demanding to even 1a an army when you can all of the sudden select infinity units opposed to max 12. The thing is that it just frees up Flash's apm to do other shit around on the map in stead. It's not like he is gonna do nothing in his new spare time ingame.

Of course there is stuff in SC2 that I dont really enjoy like the Protoss and Terran bio deathball syndrome. Many of these aspects have changed with time though. People needed to figure out the game, adapt and counter. BW had over 10 years. SC2 have been out a couple of years, had its first expansion rolled out and a shit ton of stuff has happened, and imo it has only been improving.

I loved watching the pros play in BW, and I still love watching the play now here in Heart of the Swam. I haven't been disappointed to be honest.

I never understood the term 'skill ceiling' to me it sounds like a buzzword throw around to describe how difficult a game is. However, I mostly disagree. People say shit about LoL and shootmania but there is still an infinite amount of improvement to be had as long as the competition is there. Maybe I just don't understand what is meant by the word, but I think in most cases it is more relevant or intuitive talking about the range of the necessary skill set not the skill ceiling.

Also you say BW had a bad interface and put it as if it was something undesirable. But that's what games are all about. I remember day9 talking about it in one of his podcasts or dailies: what games do is give you a specific task and supply you the most inefficient way of achieving it. I think he gave the example of golf. You have a small ball and need to put it in a small hole hundreds of meters away. Surely there are much more efficient ways of getting the ball in the hole than repeatedly hitting it with an awkward metallic rod.

Overcoming these inefficiencies is what generates the awe in skill and interesting problem solving. If you would change the golf rules in such a way that you would have to pick up the golf ball and run and put it in the hole by hand, you would still have a high (infinite?) skill ceiling as you could always run faster or dunk the ball in the hole faster, but due to the stream lining of the game mechanics it would not be nearly as exciting. (and yes I know putting golf and exciting in once sentence is a far stretch)


Also you might be right that sc2 has improved quite a lot since the early games. But having been skeptical from the beginning I didn't have the patience to take an industry serious when we had boring games and everyone would shout 'hey it's still in it's infancy, it sure is about to get better over the years.'

I once in a while turn on some sc2 stream. I realized the I actually hate the observer options- all that excess information they give somehow kills the value of the commentator and also for me lowers the interest of watching it. In bw I loved to watch the game and constantly pay attention to the implicit information that i could deduce worker count, economic strength, army size, upgrades. That way I felt much more involved in watching a game, if everything is laid out there for me, it's just already pre-digested and it doesn't stimulate me in any way. Of course there is a perfectly valid argument that this is so that it would be more accessible newbies, but it's just too much numbers and dry analysis. There has rarely been a situation in sc2 where the observer just floats over a building and notices the science academy blinking, or something like that, hinting towards some unorthodox build and you just can't wait to see how it will all unveil.

My perception of the term skill ceiling is very well demonstrated in Counter Strike. A player can very quickly hit the 'ceiling' where his individual skill is capped by the insufficiency of his teammates. At some point it is no longer within his own power, but rather up to team as a whole to win.

In Tic-tac-toe the skill ceiling is very, very quickly reached. There simply isn't enough complexity to the game, which should make an obvious comparison to the extreme complexity of Quake or Starcraft, where there is always personal improvement to be done, and the skill ceiling by that is very high.

I remember the Day9 reference you are talking about, and while the inefficiency you are talking about might generate a problem solving that requires a skill-set, I don't agree with that automatically being interesting. It might be impressive and awe inducing, but from an intellectual point of view it becomes rather generic.

The fact that the golfers can land the ball with such precision, despite wind as a factor and over such long distances is incredible. The act in it self however very quickly becomes somewhat boring just to watch.

Your example about observer features does not make any sense to me beside the obvious fact that you like to look for the information yourself to feel emerged. That leads me to believe that you generally is a person that would prefer to watch demos in stead of VOD's casters and observers.

Regardless of whatever kinks and personal preferences you have, you must also agree that purposely not developing observer features in order actually force user engagement when viewing the game would be unintuitive and unreasonable.

Well your skill ceiling of tic-tac-toe is inappropriate as it is hardcoded in the game rules with no freedom and the comparison of counterstrike and teamplay is out of context as team play is just another aspect of sill uncapped by anything.

Furthermore yes there has to be a balance between how much constrains you put on the player and how streamlined you make it. The perfect solution is somewhere in between and with ever improving technology one has to think what sort of improvement is natural to not be stuck on 10 years old technological constrains and what already becomes 'dumbing' down of the mechanics. Like people would complain about BW medics auto-healing in contrast to WC2 :D

Still on the observer features I can't agree with you. The new features might be invaluable for in-depth demo analysis or build reviews. However, in some casts I get annoyed that the caster analysis is just comparison of different numbers they read of the counters. I think it is good for people to get immersed into watching of a game letting them think about what is going on, while having someone explain the more advanced aspects of the action. While I think the addition of item counters is a good thing for spectating quake adding some more information, say wall-hacked position of your the opposition would already be too much exposure.

I think making esports coverage so mainstream to cater for people having no knowledge of the game is not necessary and the best casters in their respective games don't focus on the trivialities or on some mechanical features but rather add some colourful play by play commentary or some strategic interpretations and interpretations.

This is going bit on a tangent but another distaste I have developed for spectating both bw and sc2 is the fact how strategy games work in principle. That small advantages grow over time. Say you have better economy which gives you better army production with which you can secure even more advantages. Thus comebacks are much less viable and mostly due to mistakes rather than brilliant play. This means often the games are 'over' after initial chosen strategies (ofc good players will transition using scouting information and pick the most adaptive strategies) or after the first few battles.

Although it doesn't remove any competitiveness of the game you are often left watching a game that is decided already half way through and the rest is just garbage time. This leaves the commentators somewhat in a peculiar situation where they can't just declare it's over and also they can't just bullshit to you that the game is still super exciting and I wonder what will happen next. Unfortunately they still tend to do it often and you just get the feeling it is a big farce.

This also applies to quake ofc when Zoot is shouting there is still time with 1min remaining and 8 frags to make up while out of control. However, in strategy games it is much more of a problem.

Yes it is the primitive design of Tic-tac-toe as a game that restricts any possibility of skill which was exactly the initial point when talking about a specific game's skill ceiling. Too little complexity and the game simply doesn't allow skill. If the game is too open/non-restricted, in lack of better words, then the game becomes 'random', which again undermines skill, resulting in a coin-flip outcome.

In my opinion, observer features are kinda essential. New players will of obvious reasons not know what to look for them selves, so then it becomes the caster's job to provide insight and explanations. Then why would you not include the information so they can learn?

Personally I would love to see such features included in Quake as well. It would be awesome if the caster could bring up a graph that showed Cypher's damage output over the past 15 seconds and display the difference in efficiency visually. I wouldn't even be opposed to damage numbers floating up above the models like we know from WoW, even though this should also be optional to show on a timeline or the like.

The awesome caster will know how to incorporate the stats as a tool to tell a more exciting story. Generic play-by-play and recitation of the numbers displayed would be boring, but that would then be the shortcomings of the commentator and not just unnecessary features.

I agree with the flaw of an advantage growing overwhelming over time in RTS. It can feel anticlimactic when it is very transparent that one player will win because of it, but I guess its the odd chance of it actually happening once in a while that should be emphasized. The skillful commentator must try to build the comeback scenario and talk about what would make it possible. If it happens, it makes everything that much more epic for sure.

That's interesting but it doesn't quite say everything about what makes a (successful) game. You could probably always make the game harder, even golf.

Successful video games have in recent years been more and more easy to get into and hardcore esports fans are apparently such a small audience that you can't only focus on those. This means a game needs to be accessible. While SC2 has tried to address this problem, it's still considered to be a fucking hard game by most.

I like the 1v1 setting shared by Quake and the competetive RTSs so I'm sad to see even SC2 is faltering a bit now. The SC2 community is acting like it's dying but I'm sure it has years of professional play left...

Disliking available information is definitely very much an acquired taste. Most (sports, game) casting tends to try and provide as much as it can though. Personally I love it and feel like it lets me focus on understanding other aspects better.

I addressed some of your points in my previous post.

I think it is the general direction game development goes. The early days were playing multiplayer versus-games where you had to invest a large portion of your free time to your hobby are gone. Nowadays it seems the focus is more on games that are easily accessible, more social, a good example is the large amount of co-op games popping up. This way developers reach a much wider audience to their work and in genreal it is very desirable that an esport game is not just played by an elite but that everyone plays it and the elite just represent a small percentage of that huge player base.

Everyone should be able to play it, but the pros should be able to take the game to a level which would leave the casuals in awe by raising the level of play in an organic and natural way. You could play quake perfectly fine with a bunch of noobies who don't know nothing about strafe jumping and with lg accuracies that cant levitate your opponents.

Sc2 can be played and enjoyed by all varieties of players, however, when I compare a mid-skilled game to a top tier pro game, i don't see this awe inspiring difference. They just do it all a little better, enough to completely crush opposition that is not as skilled but not the equivalent masterful actions like lg air suspense.

In bw everyone would try to copy the pros, but often you just lacked the quality to even execute the strategies to be in the intended metagame. I actually liked that. Watching koreans, foreigners and amateurs was like watching three different games with what worked and didn't at each skill level.

to much bla about games i dont care .

Will people be interested in Reborn if it is fully released in 2016?

I'm interested from the get go, knowing there are people in control that have similar ideals to those on ESR. When it comes out is irrelevant, my interest will stay :>

Glad he is open about his financing issues but I remain skeptical. Hoping for the best but I'll get really excited when I actually see something.

I think he said before that he just didn't want to show anything until he could garuntee he could provide what he claimed he could

That's perfectly fine, its also fine to be skeptical until then.

I agree

2GD's bottom line about reborn: playable version in 1.5 year from now, 2 tops. woah

Playable is different than 100% done. QL was playable in 2008, acceptable in 2011.

Playable in 2008. Dead by 2011.



































































Acceptable since 1999. Someone defend id Software, please.

Someone defend id Software, please.

q2 has an amazing soundtrack

\m/

and it's on .flac on rutracker Kappa_/

that's exactly why I wrote playable, not done...

what the hell is this reborn game? anybody care to explain?

you can buy it here:

I would love to see reborn come to life, as I know with the core development ideals it won't be anything but a refreshment to the quake community. Though I know I'll never be able to put much time into gaming like I used to, I will always support the types of games we all love and play them until we all put visors on and play them in our heads. Keep on fighting the good fight 2GD, there are few left who are.

Gameplay or it never happened!

From what we know the game is in one of these states:
A. Just a project with ideas, plans and artwork to show.
B. Ultrono arena.

Tie that to the neverending funding issues and that he wants the game to be rather large and complex, and it means the earliest a playable version will be shown or be out is late 2014, with an acceptable one in late 2015 to early 2016 (I think the latter).

By that time the graphics will be subpar to the current standard and art style will be outdated (not the trendy thing), both with as much difference as QL against 360's BF3 and competing under the same conditions (little to no advertising, PC only). So, unless there's a massive speed up then this project is doomed to fail.

2GD always makes Reborn sound like a secondary project, with his studio and others having preference over it.

how weird of him right ??? its not like the studio is his main source of income ....

Its not sounding like his heart is in the project

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mhuDQcXd64&t=0m17s

haha nuts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJVBsUX-zCM

lol these old vids