id should start paying up to tournament organizers if they want game to live.

why? if anything, they should use the money to put up ads for QL and sponsor 'reviews' on other gaming sites. if you really want someone herding, they could spend the money for an admin to run newbie tourney

delete

no money, no real high level players I'm afraid

the esports dream died for quake cause there aren't enough players around
how bout we try to build from grass root level up instead of worrying about money for a very tiny select group of players. there are a lot more problems plaguing the fast fps scene than lack of lans.
could the return of team games be the answer?
possibly

http://www.twitch.tv/leveluptv

i love qw, i love team games... but seriously, you are getting really annoying very fast.

tdm is the way forward!

backwards you mean?

the esports dream died for quake because there is no money involved. Who cares about players, esports is all about marketing.

What "we" should do is push a different mindset that most top duelers already have (that it's a hobby that coincidentally can get you price money, but not that much) and apply it to tdmers and not top duelers.

fast paced fps has had money thrown at it for years now over many different games, none of which managed to gain much traction... cant blame money anymore tbh and find other reasons.

No.

I agree, grass root level rise and all that.

However the problem, for me personally, is not the prizemoney, even though that is, in fact, what lures in high level players.

It's the venue in and of itself. I couldn't give a rats ass if I won or lost the chance to win any money for bashing a tennis ball around a court against some top dude at Wimbledon; it's the fact that I'm playing a match there that makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

The same goes for Dreamhack. It's what I've always wanted to do but never got around to doing, and only recently when I've seen an increase in weekly successrate in my duels, I've wanted to actually sign up to be a potential invitee. Now this feels like naught but a dream (pun not intended) that was never to be.

sorry you didnt get the chance, bro.
hopefully another game gives you the opportunity.

sif

All I can do is thank Dreamhack for holding Quake together for all these years. Mighty thanks to all the Dreamhack staff! :D

This. I almost plussed you.

This would really suck. Any confirmation from the staff?

If this is the case I'd like to thank blaze and the other admins for doing an amazing job. DH used to be a mere appetizer when IEM was around, then it was the main course. The coverage of games has been the best in QL history. Especially that DH where there were no casters and the players stepped up.

Sorry to burst your bubble but aspiring for anything in Quake has been futile for quite some years now. It was nice to see some players like baksteen rising up but they were all way too late to the party.

However futile the attempts may have been, it is what keeps the playerbase active. So you're not bursting any bubble, sir. I'm quite the realist when it comes to this subject, however I am also an optimist when situation calls for it.

well the impression i got is that it was probably the last one but not quite an announcement where they say its definately going to be the last one and they wont have it anymore. so i guess its the same old issue of getting sponsors etc so not all hope is lost. its weird because QL was matching the numbers of quite a few of the othe games

While it could theoretically compete with cs and cs:go, if the scene and its streams were put on the main site, it still lacks the funding from the developer both as advertising the game (QL has none) and prize money which is what all successful e-sports games do nowadays.

So we are fucked on the long run. I expected it to last one more year but seems like it wasn't the case for lan events, with less every year and top players not attending.
Online is stronger than ever but that's sort of meh.

"Matching the numbers of quite a few of the other games"

SC2
DOTA2
LoL
HoN
FIFA13
BF3
CS
Street Fighter
..

I don't really consider QL to be able to compete with any of those games when it comes to viewer numbers.

3-4k is pretty pathetic. From the perspective of a company or DH.. they're damn right they cancel it. Can't really grasp why they haven't cancelled it sooner.

Pretty sad tho :[

You will never make it as a 'pro-gamer' anyway.
Reborn is going to suck compared to Quake just like any other duel game ever.
If it's good it isn't going to have enough tournaments to be worth the time.

I'm not saying I will or would ever have been able to make it as a pro-gamer, but the fact that aspiring to be one makes you push the boundaries ever so often is what makes it worth the while. After all, sponsors didn't initially choose to fund tournaments based on the fact that only the best of the best of the best were playing, but that they got exposure to all skill levels of players, as well as from the spectating crowd.


Anyway, I may very well have to eat my words and I will if this bodes true, but, anything not Quake sucks in at least the duel perspective. If Reborn succeeds in topping Quake, and I'm reasonably sure it won't, I'll be very surprised. I do not doubt, however, with the team Reborn has backing it, that Quake will get a very real competion in that aspect.

D R E A M H A C K
R
E
A
M
H
A
C
K


<3

If that should be the case, then I think its mainly cause of the community/players. (Sponors as well ofc, yes)
But if you only invite 16 players and in the end only ~6 have a realistic chance for the title, 'stars' quitiing and people drop a few days before the event, admins have to run after replacements etc, I guess you start questioning why you actually do this..

there were like 99999 drop outs too That must have been awful for admins.

"and people drop a few days before the event, admins have to run after replacements etc"
?:D

who reads past the second line

Your post is empty, dude. Did you neglect writing a second line?

Hawhaw.

The potato was first domesticated in the region of modern-day southern Peru and extreme northwestern Bolivia[5] between 8000 and 5000 BCE.[6] It has since spread around the world and become a staple crop in many countries.

According to conservative estimates, the introduction of the potato was responsible for a quarter of the growth in Old World population and urbanization between 1700 and 1900.[28] Following the Spanish conquest of the Inca Empire, the Spanish introduced the potato to Europe in the second half of the 16th century. The staple was subsequently conveyed by European mariners to territories and ports throughout the world. The potato was slow to be adopted by distrustful European farmers, but soon enough it became an important food staple and field crop that played a major role in the European 19th century population boom.[7] However, lack of genetic diversity, due to the very limited number of varieties initially introduced, left the crop vulnerable to disease. In 1845, a plant disease known as late blight, caused by the fungus-like oomycete Phytophthora infestans, spread rapidly through the poorer communities of western Ireland, resulting in the crop failures that led to the Great Irish Famine.[25] Thousands of varieties still persist in the Andes however, where over 100 cultivars might be found in a single valley, and a dozen or more might be maintained by a single agricultural household.[29]

I DON'T CARE; I LOVE IT!

Thats very true. The past few years, even though I quite liked the idea of 16 players only, I wondered why that was. I mean there could easily be a few surprise-bloomers who make it to playoffs, maybe even semifinals. I would have loved seeing players like Twister, Reload, heck, even jew...ro in the playoffs. Would make for an interesting change of pace.

I only hope there's some reconsideration in order for the DH organization, sponsors and developers alike. Theres something to achieve here but the potential is, as far as I see it, not being utilized at all.

I've always disliked invite only tournaments... And tbh also tournaments which have a limitted amount of seats.

The problem is that over time only these 'few' players have any shot at being sponsored... and only the sponsored people will be willing to go anyway.

But this is also because of my personal experiences I've so hated it to have to sit at home while other *kuch* "sponsored but crap players" got chances to play on lan.

diz true, original quakecon with lots of signups and ffa rounds were $$$.

I don't post it because it's false..... but thx for agreeing with me anyway :D

I cannot agree with this. Is community guilty of being too small? Or that they don't control the decisive powers who are given money by sponsors/devs from other games?
Much of QL's success in big e-sports LAN scene actually came from people in that community (i.e. carmac, stermy and others), and the problem is that no one, especially from id, had provided support to sustain that momentum. There was no advertisement, no support, and most major activity quickly declined because of that. And what we have today is mainly consequence of this failure to help community in 2009/2010.
All those problems (no new title contenders, stars quitting and people not willing to commit fully) are expected when you have mostly hobbyist community that is left with little to no sponsor/developer support. It's not fault of people that they behave like people and lose interest to improve when they aren't offered future prospects or that they can't put quake above their other daily tasks when no one is giving them necessary support to make such gaming life possible.
I think that in this perspective, the decision to do no ads and promotion was crucial blow to QL. If we remember the beginning of beta, it's hard to deny massive effect of promotion which produced no less than million QL accounts. Even if id did the minimally expected thing and just simply advertised QL instead of hiding its existence, I think, we'd be in much different situation than we are now.

where da confirmation @

I believe I read somewhere that there will always be quake at dreamhack if there's enough people who will play in the tournament for it.

I guess having to replace 4-5? of 16 invited people was the last straw.. and quite frankly, I am okay with that.

more like 8-9

well I had no idea of the exact number and due to timezones and work was unable to watch much of the event at all.

matrox, madix, clock, ins, reload, sting & tony were original invites who cancelled and they got replaced by whoever, but several of these whoevers also cancelled and were themselves replaced at last minute, so technically 6 if you don't count replacements for replacements

TDM
D
M

Getting in a suicidal mood..

QL circuit doesnt look that exciting nowadays anyway, and propably it will look worser than on last dreamhack
during any forthcoming tournament

its time to move on.

Game has been dead since 2004 already.
Yes a few tournaments here and there, but how many players could make a living with quake3/quakelive since 2004 ?

omg moving to sm?

If you want to make a living playing video games you're already on the wrong track.

Without cash , no pro players .

i'm crying tears of joy.

I'd kill the filthy bird if he/she would sang things like that to me... no ql on dh this is intant fatality for the postman in the first round

so many mistakes on id games side.

not releasing a dedicated client so LAN events all around the world could have played this resulting in a much bigger playerbase.

you need to sell your stuff id.
you sold quake3 engine..was a cash bringer. and now you sit on quakelive so arrogantly. sell it man...sell it..unreal engines sells...do you sell man?

need new marketing director? PM me

Quakelive is an (arguably failed) experiment by id, right now it serves as an advertising platform and as long as it stay sustainable, zenimax won't pull the plug.

There's nothing to sell here imo.
I agree though that LAN-ability is a vital part of a competitive game.
LANs are after all, according to some, the "true gaming experience", the ultimate test of skills and the way quake should be played - denying this from the player base is a really absurd.

wow, you are of my opinion?
here, i changed my username ;PPP

Sell what exactly?

Shame carmack cares more about 3d glasses than one of his biggest franchises.
Right now would be the perfect time to come up with a fast paced shooter.
Cs go is struggling, epic killed ut, and shootmania probably won't take off.
A well done quake could have actually regained the fps crown had it come out this year.

Come on dude, be real.

Carmack has never been interested or involved in esports. And it's not like he can do anything about the current situation anyway. Seriously, what difference do you think he can make?

He's works on the cutting edge of technology whether that be in gaming, rocket science or 3d glasses. Don't you think that's far more enjoyable and fulfilling than trying to help a bunch of ungrateful asshats earn a living from blasting green robots? His legacy in gaming has been cemented anyway, he's like the father of FPS'.

this is plus worthy,..so i plussed it.

Im glad, you guys wanked yourself silly over duel shit which you'll never be good at or even enjoy playing.

dead game is dead want some fun ? go play qw or q2

LOL Drex, cynical ; )

So now that we don't have any competition, it's not fun any more and we should switch to even worse games?

worse games? goto bed child doubt you even played Q3 before QL and QL still lack features Q3 had in 2000 and you got to pay for most of it

Matter of taste.

You have to taste something to have an opinon on it

I've tested the games you mentioned, silly elitist prick.

5mins doesn't count

aha Q2 aero, the aero we play in Q3/QL is actually based on the Q2 version not the QW version, hub played q2 not qw :D

don't cross the line dude, assuming ql is better game than others without even knowing their mechanics is beyond biased. Matter of taste, yes probably, but keep in mind ql isn't a big game anyway and people don't really dig into it

We've been saying that "This was the last DH with quake" for like 2 years now. Somehow quake pulled through and was added either way. But feels like this really was the last event, number of signups / drop outs / no shows was simply too much...

Shit sucks, I know.

Well... we all know what happened to turn-out numbers at the last Zotac, maybe an official statement by the administration stating that DHS2013 will definitely be the LAST appearance of QL at DH will give way to the most memorable DH ever.

Plus, Quake at DH kinda deserves to go out with a bang... not just decay into thin air over several months of semi-official "probably no more ql" statements. imo.

You have a good point, although I'm not deciding if quake has another go at DreamHack or not.

I know but just sayin!

Who does? Whos the guy we need to spam? :D

pretty much anyone who works at DH HQ.

Would you be so kind and give us some info?

Don't think they want to be spammed with mails / calls. But should be fairly easy to figure out though.

Do not hesitate to contact DreamHack Esport Administration

Mail: [email protected]
Phone: +46 768 00 1336 (Office hours)

pressed the [+] button like 10 times.

Obviously QL lans were going to die sooner than latter, it was a bubble after all, but I think there are more than enough players and viewers to do a "massive" goodbye lan (TDM and Duel, 20k viewers) if it is advertised as the last DH and spread all over the interwebz.
The legends online tournament has that potential too if wheat, 2gd, etc. pull some strings and makes it to reddit and featured on twitch (and others). Quakelive deserves and realistically can go out with a bang.

Also there will be lans in the future because the online competitive scene is better than ever, but it's obvious there will be a period in which live quake will be dead and right now there's no viable replacement game that has more than 1 weapon.

Yes, quake needs to go out with a bang. But what makes DH the place for it to be? Players obviously doesn't care very much anymore, so why should we?
As far as I can tell there's just spectators asking us to "please do this / please do that". Wheat doesn't do quake anymore, same with 2gd. If he really wanted to he'd come around during this DH, but he didn't.

I know I'm pretty pessimistic about this but after a few years with the same drop outs / no shows and last minute resorts we have to make I'm getting rather sick of it.

[ + ]

Well my original point was specifically that quake at DreamHack needs to go out with a bang.... just like Zotac.

I'm not saying quake itself should go out with a bang within the next few months and DreamHack is the best place for it...

I know. But what else is there for quake? Quakecon? So dh stopping with quake will more or less be the end of quake at lan, at least in europe.

I can understand your position 100% mate, but it would be very sad if QL just doesnt get added next year. Just disapearing 'without a word'.
Players got lazy and a bit like "ah well, I'll go next time then" because it was always there. I'm pretty confident that you will get a huge and serious sign up list if you let ppl know that it is their last chance! It's something special that everyone wants to be a part of.

Please talk to the guys and make it happen! <3

I can try to talk to them, but I think it's going to take more than that for quake this summer. Something like the community support when we did TDM for QL 2 years ago!

I'll donate a percentage of my monthly pay to contribute for the arrangement costs and prizepot for every month until DHS'13 if thats what it takes. I'm hoping I won't be the only one willing to do this, but even 10 people doing this, with perhaps Face It showing some love, Adroits in some part giving a hand.

If anything that could prove to result in a grand finale of Quake Live, if not show that a larger number of people still want to see Quake Live in future Dreamhacks.

Heck, I'll even run around in DH mascot costume, if there was such a thing, advertising for the biggest end-bang for the best series of games to ever hit the first person shooter scene.

How is that for community support?

QL Grand Finals sounds nice.

Community support you say?
How about a donation site?

:'(

:|

o_O

O_O

:O

:D

[+]'ed because DONATION SITE FOR THE EFFING WIN!

:')

Community support, i.e. players signing up / showing up. Not just plain talk about it.
If you guys were to donate I'd say donate to the players going to DH.

Edit: Money isn't the (big) problem. The big problem is that we barely managed to get a 16 player tournament, with a lot of luck tbh.

With invintation system, you require much more commitment from Quake players than they can afford (most of them being not small kids, and having stuff IRL, and no teams to sponsor Quakers). Most people playing Quake just cannot predict whether they'd have time. If tournament was open, I think, just as much people could randomly decide to go at the last moment, as have dropped out.

First of all I do understand dh's decision of dropping quake. I'd have a long time ago lol.

I know it will sound paranoid, but now that there are very few top players and are almost 0 events a year live quake will start dying fast. Sure there's always quakecon but that's going to be worse and worse every year even to their shitty unbearable standards; imagine cypher and rapha not attending while the rest just stopped a while ago and mid skilled players don't care really.
That's why now it's high time to do a good bye event (one) before everyone becomes a surfer instructor in bali with a quake poster on their wall. 2013 is the last chance for a final memorable lan before ins starts winning quakecons and the highlight of the year is some 2gd hangover ffa online cup.

You know what attracts top players? prize money. If it is going to be the "QUAKE LIVE GRAND FINALS (tm)", last big quake event ever, then "we" could get prize money just for that one occasion.
That not only would require us doing donations but also major names stepping up, such as 2gd wheat mm/strenx dreamhack/sponsors and id software themselves. If one of them doesn't then it is gg.
Even cooller would attend if he is guaranteed $300 for attending to sweden and $30k for winning right, and the title of "quake live grand champion".

If there was a round robin system I'd be there for sure! (if i got invited that is)

that's true! it's so shameful how players disrespect you guys for not showing up and chickening out / insert random lame excuse here.... with players like that we really don't deserve the tournament =) we can only blame ourselves (or the players who did that), it's not like a freaking zotac that you can either check in or not :ASD

potat speeks ze truths.
If you end it, end it with a BAM!
Duel & TDM for DHS2013!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! \o/

You just ruined my morning :(

players leaving the Drimack
Drimack leaving the players

Thanks to everyone that signed up for Dreamhack and went AWOL in the last few days <3

I understand that late no shows etc sux, but anyway there was a very strong lineup of top players, and one really epic final with a new guy owning everybody. Skillwise quake is as alive as ever.

Maybe doing an open tourney, with seeds and groups being done at the start of the lan according to check ins? That would eliminate the re grouping etc and it would not kill a game thats still evolving and can get thousands of spectators.

?

if the lack of interest is the problem, just pick another gametype
you said it yourself, tdmers showed they cared, so go ahead with tdm. I took a look at the HOQ website a couple of days ago and there are a lot of teams, the clanbase cup seems popular, too

so... yeah, I'd rather watch duel but a nice kick up the backside might be needed. or just make one tournament a year, if americans can't go to the winter one because of thanksgiving, the decision looks pretty easy

or just a friendly warning that if you skip a tournament, your next application will be at the bottom of the pile

possibilities are endless, just like the amount of shit you've gone through, I see that as a sign

thanks for your hard work anyway

Online teams, yes.

None of them have the moola to show up in sweden though.

i heard DH is going to pick up SM

I heWHAT

possibly when hell freezes over! :)

Cute <3

how about UGC 2 now stermy?
you made whatever x 1000 $$

People saying Reborn won't be as 'great' or as 'big' as Quake are being realistic, sure, but will a deathmatch fps game EVER be as big as Quake was? I think Quake in general was the first of its kind, which brought about numbers unheard of at the time. I realize that LoL is bringing in 100k viewers, and SC2 is around 60 to 80k viewers for tournaments, but does a deathmatch fps game NEED those numbers to be a success? I'm not saying it CAN'T, however.

Just like I said in a previous thread, if Reborn allows players to learn against people equally skilled, through matchmaking protocols, casual/competitive/pro "modes", or whatever else 2GD has planned, I think it can be huge again. CS:GO is definitely not succeeding as well as CS players had hoped, and although it doesn't directly transition, that's a LOT of fps players to appeal to.

We also need to remember that 2GD is more than just some eSports personality, he clearly knows the industry and has clout in it. Would anyone really be shocked in seeing Reborn at Dreamhack when 2GD feels it's ready? I know I wouldn't. He's got great connections to work with and has lots of people that could front some serious money to get the game some traction. Maybe I'm being a huge optimist, but god dammit, I want that Quake3 feeling again, playing until 4am without realizing it and having to work with a 30min power nap and a gallon of coffee in me.

Guess we'll have to see.

** Oh, I watched Live on 3 today and Slasher mentioned he talked to a few Quake pros that played a bit of Reborn and they said it's pretty cool. So, fingers crossed!

You don't need to make a good game, matchmaking, casual/pro modes, ladders, all you need is big eSport personalities to promote it.

i c wut u did thur.

* assuming Reborn is a great game.

No newcomers > No viewers > No Pricemoney > No ballers/pros > No fun

ql is gonna go out with a bang no matter what, be it dh, ugc or something else
its gonna fucking happen

you can always make QL tournament @ DH with BYOUC with etc 30-50 euro entry. Few donations, few small sponors and you get prize money for few better players to come. Better then nothin... No admins need for that. We did like 20 such q3 lans in ltu, with 15-30 players, we run tournaments smooth in 2 days...

1) I think we must promote CA becuse it is more popular mode then duel and more simple. (or some other team game mode without timing). And i want to play ca on t4 without lg etc
2) And of course we need new good maps, but do not hope for ID =)
Just make maps and upload, someone will like it, someone will complete it

roflmaololbbq

CA may be fun to play but it's incredibly boring to watch

That's true from the perspective of someone who deeply understands Quake. It would be interesting to know if CA appeals to people unfamiliar with Quake, however I'm fairly confident it wouldn't. Format wise CA is nice and simple and the round-based concept is something people are familiar with from other popular FPS games. It's also much better than Shootmania!

It can't hurt to try though... CA tournament with lvl^ stream maybe? :)

Might be worth a shot but having seen quite a few comp CA games, they really tend to be extremely slow and methodically played, not very interesting to spec. And basically all i ever played in QL was CA, mind you, so i should be partial to it. :s

lol what, except for the 1v1 after everyones dead, a round is played in something like 30 sec

lol no

competitive ca and pub ca are widely different things.

Uh, yes, hi, that's my point.

yeah, but what you are describe sounds a lot like pub ca

Funny, i was about to say the same thing to you.

maybe you should move up a few skilltiers then :DDDDDDDD

If i do, will i suddenly become wrapped in a field of relativity? Because otherwise i have no idea how would that make the games i play/watch any shorter/longer.

Oh, um. :DDDDDDDDD (i added one more D RotFL)

absolutely =) ive only been in top tier games, and they are played very fast with the exception of the Xvs1 that occationally happens. dm6 = 3 or 4 players gather on bridge, asylum = everyone standing on top platform, overkill = control 2nd or top floor at tower.

this is my experience after being in contact with faces of meth, plus and HWG. so yeah, most likely you will become wrapped in a field of relativity if you ever get the chance to experience top tier games.

I doubt it, but ok. Pitch that to lvl^ or something and let's see a proper streamed CA tourney.

it still holds very little spectaor value as seemingly small factors decides rounds. someone winning a fight with <50 can easily snowball into a roundwin within seconds, and the occational 1v1 is just laughable. if a draw function was inserted like in chess it could potentionally work, but still not well suited for spectating.

dno why i even replied when your first words are "I doubt it" without any sort of cause, except some silly prejudice. bye

I already explained my "cause", the fact that your pickup games or whatever boil down to rushing does not mean jack. You have a skewered perception of how long comp CA games last on average.

Unless you were talking about 2v2, in which case lol rofl.

its not rushing however, teams meet at locations and fight it out. every organized (4v4) game (not fucking pickups, dont know what gave you that idea) that ive been in as both player and spectator have all played out like this. everyone ive talked to have said, this is the way to play top level 4v4 clan arena. and need i remind you: this are members of the absolute top.

do you even aknowledge what im saying? u seem very dismissive

Alright then, i guess i'm wrong. You have any demos/vods on hand for some of these games? Because seriously, every single comp CA game i've seen was slow as shit.

http://www.own3d.tv/hoqtv/video/596086
http://www.own3d.tv/hoqtv/video/596110

and before you ask, i did not save any logs as the discussions were during warmups ingame, the matches were month ago and demos are now deleted. i will not give you the names of the players ive been in contact with.

i have seen other vods of games being played exactly like the ones linked above. feel free to find them yourself, im not gonna babysit you with urls, only because you have the idea that im lying to prove you wrong (i guess, thats what i gather from your dismissive attitude and your last post.)

unless you can make a post i want to answer, this is byes

http://www.own3d.tv/hoqtv/video/596086
http://www.own3d.tv/hoqtv/video/596110

That's even less appealing. Ugh. And no, you got the wrong impression, if that's how the majority of comp CA really looks like then i'm happy to admit i was wrong. Perhaps i'm out of touch.

0 grenade limit, rockets to 15. CA might be tolerable then

I'm hearing talks of TF2 at dh summer 2013. What a slap in the face that would be to quake players to replace it with a fisherprice spinoff of quake.

I'm not happy about Quake Live going, but TF2 is still very deserving of a tournament at DreamHack.

Nah.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mpuk/6090710705/...7536527462

All these people disagree with you, but whatever.

Oh well shit, if 120 people in a photo say so...

It's LAN-turnup. TF2 has a lot of people that will come to DH for it, way, way more than QL. Unfortunately.

so is it official?
tbh quake was carryed by DH due to pure charity for a couple of years now. it does deserve a spot at any event we all know that.but it doesnt "deserve" a spot in any companys' interest.
we saw it coming but luckily the quake scene wasnt as healthy as today for the last 5 years, we will get over it peops. stay strong play quake.

nothing here is official.. Might be an indication of where things going though, but nothing official.