You are just not used to the unreal engine, where lower ping always has been better. There are people in QL who take a bad connection with high ping in purpose, because it's an advantage. Won't ever happen in UT.

What people? There is no one who does that on purpose. No one.

Pavel does whatever he can to NOT play on high ping, Cypher loses to strenx when he was on high ping and whines about it, I play with high ping and it's not as fun as playing low ping.

You are talking out of your ass.

arent we talking about public games?

so netcode is still shit. Move on.

well you must understand commercial internet lines (that are usually tier3 ones) dont have the same routing as server hosting companies do (tier1), even if you have a 100/100 connection, chances youre too far from the backbone (especially when playing across countries) is high. as QL gets unplayable over 80-100 ping, id expect the same from every game.

i dont wanna defend anything, but i think its impossible to judge based on the experience a guy spawns a server at his home, on his playing computer while the other one join from hundred of kilometres away.

hehe this is what I did for the first painkiller, I think I played mainly as "Dale". Wasn't that bad waiting for people because you can spawn a bot while you wait and then it'll despawn(or you kick it?) when someone actually joins. Sad part is even with the lan ping advantage some people would still beat me lol

Most server hosting companies are not Tier 1 ISPs, see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_network

The term is heavily marketed and it is also highly disputable that being closer to a Tier 1 host will yield you a faster connection. Getting through a fast access network is 2-3ms at most.

The problem is elsewhere. Probably just bad routing agreements.

yeah i admit my knowledge about this stuff is very little besides (barely) understanding how the internet being structured, but otherwise hope everyone sees what i wanted to say

Thx, good sir! Have a [+]

>UDK
>netcode
nice joke, lol

anybody knows system requirements? i just get key

Let me get this right, after releasing 2-3 PK games, it still has netcode problems? These games are bhaaddddddddddd

Let me get this right, they're using a completely different engine and right now, you're playing just like you'd play doom over modem by dialing a friend and it's not nearly as good as a dedicated server on a high end connection ?

NO FUCKING WAY.

Is the engine the point? They should get a fucking clue and stop releasing games with terrible netcode.

no, the thing you don't get is that it's running from one guy's place to another guy's place, all through shitty standard quality lines. Try playing any game that way then come back and apologize.

I get it. However, I can guarantee that the netcode will suck when they release it.

this game people who make only first painkiller. don't worry about netcode.my worries is no duel mode.

What do you think deathmatch is ?

1v1? i have d3derr_invalidcall error :/

honestly, as long as they dont bring back every single old mp map (they might), I don't mind this remake. The only reason I say that too is because I dont want any of the old players.. and I'll quote 2gd "having a 10 yr advantage" over me. if this game wants to make an effort to reach the heights of what sc2 has in terms of an esports game, it has to be different. but it feels as if it most likely won't be and probably just a remake of painkiller which will last a few yrs. Of course I'd love to be proven wrong.

Hmm this is interesting, you made me think of things a bit differently. Technically any pc-fps player will have an upperhand the same way a console-fps player will have an upperhand in terms of muscle memory. So escaping that advantage completely I guess is almost impossible. Like in sc2 there was tons of SC:BW players with a muscle memory advantage and in addition crazy fine tuned attitude, philosophy and training regiments. So did SC2/blizzard mitigate that? and if so how?


I guess in a perfect scenario you would want to lesson the advantage as much as possible at first. And then slowly the better and more dedicated players just happen to surface to the top, with or without these players with the muscle memory/strategy advantage.


I suppose SC2 is the best way to learn from this. So my theory on why SC2 worked so well to lessen this advantage was basically a combination of large influx of players and blizzards constant tweaking of the game. The large interest in the game probably stems from lots of channels like:
- Good advertising
- Old school effect
- Blizzards reputation(at the time)
- Social aspect which is related to all these probably
- SC:BW's e-sport fame (televised omg)
- Nature of the game:
Strategy trumps muscle memory but to be a pro you need that edge of muscle memory, a interesting balance :). Is fps games the other way around?
--And--
The game is talk-able in respect to mechanics and strategy. The huge flaw I find with fps games is it hard to talk about it. I would love to hear some example's of this :)


Note: I am no expert here I don't play SC2, I just followed the scene to some extent.
uh-o this might get longer, crap i'll just end it here lol

...and I'll quote 2gd "having a 10 yr advantage" over me...

I heard his say that during his show, honestly it's borderline impossible to not have people have a "10 year advantage" over other people. Moving from Quake to PK to UT to anything is pretty miniscule when you look at the bigger picture. You get used to different movement, weapons, timing, but the concept of 1on1 deathmatch is the same. Unless he makes a game with CS weapons and pace, it's impossible to prevent Quake pros from excelling from the start. Warsow is very different in terms of movement and pace, yet any Quake pro could play it for a week and be very very good and at a high level.

He has good intentions, I just think their impossible to fulfill.

If you have a lot of skill in any fps game some of it will translate over to any other fps game, no matter how different it is. But it still is lot easier to transition between some 1on1 deathmatch shooters than others.

For most Quake players Warsow is a pretty easy transition because it's movement is similar to cpm which most decent Quake players are familiar with. And beyond the differences in movement, it's very similar to q3.

Just because I think its interesting to point out, here's my list of advantages. :D


PK advantages:
FPS players
They will have an obvious aim advantage. So maybe for competitive FPS games to become popular maybe it is required for more casual fps games to rise first for that foundation.

Movement
I think this favors air control fps players like in CS, cpm, pql, warsow. For example in my CS days I picked up PK movement fairly quickly, just because it was so similar to bunnyhopping to me.

Duelers/1v1
There is a fair bit of popular team based games like tf2 and CS. And speaking from experience 1v1 concepts was at first somewhat unfamiliar/foreign to me. eg. controlling and picking up items.

Rockets/none hitscan weapons
Again from experience it was a learning curve coming from a hit hitscan environment lol

Timers
Still a flaw but but it doesn't sound that bad tbh. Because at the moment RA/mega in PK sound like they'll spawn at 30 seconds intervals. And IMO its the 5 at the end of mega and armours in quakelive that makes the math/reciting trickier.

old maps are fine as long as there's no incentive to play them for anything else than fun. They should not be put into cup/tournament map pools.

SACRED FTW

you nailed it in the head. as much as this is true, i feel that ppl will be geared towards playing the older maps more because "its what they know".

d@m, thanks for taking the time to reply ;D (chil/gilz)

but yeah, I think you're right about this

"So did SC2/blizzard mitigate that (the difference between ex-BW pros coming to the scene and dominating)? and if so how?"

oh of course it did not. But my original point was relating to the maps. because someone asked if the old maps will be there. Of course good fps players will have a huge edge, but having a huge edge in terms of aim + STRATEGY is much worse (in my opinion) and a bit too much to give.
Now imagine if a quake 5 came out and the first tournament ever had the map pool (tox/t7/aero/dm13/ztn). now if I am a new player to quake5, albeit being a good (or even great) fps player, I will NEVER have the same advantages as a good QUAKE player, who will not only have similar aim but will also know the maps inside and out.

In your starcraft comparision, none of the sc2 maps were same as the BW maps.

I guess my logic behind not being concerned about map knowledge was because for the most part the game was just a flash coming in and out of existence that there isn't really a big community for it. IMO probably only top10 at the time truly knew the maps to the extent they could traverse the map backwards and know where too spam. I could be wrong :)

But yeah I agree with you about map knowledge, it is a important factor and can be a big advantage. Probably the only map I really knew was sacred cause it was to me the ztn of quake. So yeah sacred ftw cause im bias lol

Only problem with competitive maps it depends on the physics, game mechanics and players. And probably the best maps come from experience and trial and error which takes time. eg. people who have seen bad maps, maps with bad fps issues or OP weapon positions/powerups. (cough there's a reason why people don't play on standard QL servers atm, the maps that the servers get stuck on are mostly terrible for duel IMO)

Excuse my ignorance but I thought they were using Unreal Engine 3? If that's the case shouldn't the netcode be at least half decent compared to previous PK games?

They are and yes, there's no way it couldn't be better.

Earth-shattering news.. for the 5 players of the Painkiller community.

.
.
.
</joke>

[x] funny remarks about the size of a (non-existant) beta community

have your plus for the effort... next.

honestly i dont get this negativity. there is a decent core game that has an easy-to-get-involved movement with otherwise a lifetime to master gameplay, containing casual gamemodes too (coop, pve). it isnt a dumbed down shit like shootmania neither the developers have a lets shit on the community approach so far ala ql. they stated they willing to shape the game toward competitive play and need to get continous feedback on it from the players. neither a fanmade garage project that has absolutely zero chance to take off cos the lack of funds / infrastructure like warsow or xonotic. also it has a foreseeable release date - well shaped concept instead of the word of one well respected man (reborn).
but competition is always good, id love to see reborn and painkiller battling it out for the next competitive fast fps title (assuming reborn will ever take off).
also this might will be the first ever competitive fast-fps with integrated steam (anticheat), achievments, ladders, etc. also as it looks like currently wont be free to play either (cheaters paradise)

im not saying this will be next fast fps that saves the genre or wont flop for granted, but as the title says its certainly a new hope, perhaps one of the very last ones for those who expect a little more from a game than idling on unpopulated irc pickup channels for hours hoping that someone joins and actually plays more than one ten minute game in the next couple of years.

think it trough, before you start puking.

Don't understand the fuss. Old PK was shit, this really much different?

i loved the old one and this is a remake so hater gonna hate and lovers gonna love

No it wasn't. All it had was bad netcode. :((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
vroomsuuuu

I tried it out and I can only agree in every point mousestar said about the movement. Btw. is there a possibilty to duck or crouch? Didn't play the old PK so I don't know if it was possible.
Overall the game is in very early stage I would even say it's more like an alpha. You can't even set your Controls in the menu. Other than that it makes a promising impression to me.

My first impression: game feels good, although the speed gain should be a little slower and the max speed a little bigger. The step height as said before should be higher and the steps should boost you for a greater experience.

I managed to play one DM game and it felt incredibly laggy. The soul catcher seemed too powerful . The overall experience in DM was fun though.

The SP is as I expected action pumped and fun. I was missing the Demon Mode \m/

Ok I was probably just raged at how bad the current state was. I'm sure it will be released. But I believe, from a multiplayer perspective, it might as well not be. Something that is this unplayable surely shouldn't be called a beta, and absolutely not an open one.

anyways, Reborn

bring back quake 3, bring back painkiller ... LOL

why is somebody interested in painkiller today, it was a pro lan game for 20 people, not a online public game.

and i would always go with the lan people :) and i will if they get the game right

sure, if you only play on LAN. If you use the interwebz like all the rest does then painkiller is awful (netcode)

we will have to wait till they go into open beta which will take a while to judge about the netcode reasonably

since your german, watch this show
http://archive.tv.esl.eu/de/vod/view/19765

a business guy told that pk overdose is a esport game ofcouse blabla hyperhyper, and than player mason comes in and says how the reality is (i forgot it all) and the business guy goes in silent mode because he has no clue what mason is talking about. maybe this time its another studio, im not interest in pk even it where objectively good.

its okay to hope for things, if you get older (experience, repetition) when it comes to games you dont do that often. sometimes i wish im again a believer and more naive.

whats the name of the pk++ mod maker, blowfish? without him, people with knowledge, another pk is doomed right from the start.

im 90% sure the hd remake is about console sales, not pc.

im a believer sue me :)

edit: you cant watch the vod without some age veriyfication bullshit any other link? or do i need to give em my cellphone number or raise my trust-level? wp esl

and im jealous of you :)

its this esl secure thing for years :]

wait until 23.00 oclock or buy a player card (no clue what this is). since you like exotic fps games there are some shows about quake 4 too.

I wanna watch it so badly ...

brink back?

the MP needs a massive amount of work.

exactly. is the motivation, money and the time there to do that? we know the answere.

i received a detailed message from the publishers that they will mainly focus on the mp and they are aiming for an esports title wait for the updates

I've heard that so many times :(

3 with the exact same game rofl

http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/bilder/re...ner3x1.jpg

No hope

we will see ill jump on that train cause i am having a lot of fun with the beta so far :)

trainjumper

there is 1 map

dream on

omg someone called me a netcode specialist!

Maybe they should hire me to fix it ;)

btw... I haven't tried this game and my pc prolly can't even handle it. Unless it is less stressfull than UT3 in which case I might try it... could someone who tested it reply? thx :)

dont worry the requirements are really really low if u dont play on a commodore 64 you should be fine

ah nice :)
well my pc is one of the fastest from 2002 I think. I'm somewhat looking for a new one... but then again the stuff I use my computer for doesn't require much pc power.

I don't think a 2002 PC is fast enough to play it properly. Don't forget it's unreal 3 engine. You should at least have:
- 2 gb ram
- 2.0 ghz multicore cpu
- nvidia 8000 series or higher

how do you know what my pc is like!! ;p
It's pretty close to that.

just making sure u will enjoy the game :D

NSX playing/streaming PK-HD
http://www.twitch.tv/nsx0r/b/331169746

Hey one of the latest PK comps was won by a guy named Andy with 140ping

I can't believe this shit doesn't have dedicated servers...