Just when we thought it couldn't get any better....

Wouldn't a bird's eye view of the game using the engine, being able to see players/items through walls, be pretty much the same thing?

Yes, that would be awesome. Imagine that and MVD. <3

this would be really nice for tdm (as you mentioned)

OH M FUCKING GOD I LOVE YOU NHAVE MY BABIES LEPLEEASSEEEE

I second KittenIgnition here. Have mine too.

And so far looks good. The video in which frs tested the tdm map I believe I saw something that looked a great deal like this, however I am not sure whether this was your software or not. Either way, what I wished to be changed at that time, was the size of the player-indication dot for me to feel content with it. The piece shown here gives me warm feelings.

Good job so far mate. [+]'ed because I can, even though I have about zero popularity to influence the post with. Good on ya!

memento, stop it man, let some other guys take the heart of the quake community. you're just too good. gj

Memento : Best quaker ever !

I'm speechless. I know it's not your intention in doing this, but this definitely must put id 'developers' to a shame as fazz said. Lots of <3.

Btw, why don't you make a donation possible? For people who just want to thank you not only here in [+]s :)

I take your post as a chance to express what I think about this topic. Don't take it as necessarily directed to you.

The comparison with the devs may be appropriate if you take QLRanks, which is a fully functional and tested system, based on content that ID has (the match database) and math algorithms that are out there for anybody to use.

But here is not really fair.

I think being an external guy is much easier as people are much more forgiving. If this was from the devs, rather than a few random community guys, one would require that it worked straight away for all maps / game modes, integrated directly into the game, and for god sake better be no bugs! Imagine the comments: "what are those weird poison polygons I see? Is this amateur work!? Wtf id?!?"

There is simply no way Syncerror could spend a couple of days programming something like this, then making a youtube video, and tease us all. What if making the other maps takes a lot of time? What if different game modes won't come for the next four months? Imagine the whine.

It's all about expectations. For people within the community it is easy, because if one does something, an other guy can compare the result with his own work, and since we are all amateurs, we tend to be excited. If the devs do something, we immediately compare it to what SC2, LOL, etc devs do, and soon expectations sky rocket.

This cause major upsets mainly because the QL dev team has the size and resources comparable to independent community projects. They have benefits from being id Software (having access to the code, being paid for x hours / week to work on this, etc.) but also a lot of requirements any official dev group has to meet. This without even considering the how managerial decisions are taken within id, which is something we know nothing about.

I see your poing and can't really disagree with you. But what about donations? :) I know you enjoy doing this, you also learn new things, but there's nothing wrong with people who want to contribute to you and show some appreciation - even in plain materialistic way.

you are obviously working in the IT industry :-)

Christ, fucking well done MM. Make a donation button so people can donate you for your hard work! :)

As better people said before me, if you want to support go and buy premium/pro accounts.

That is possible, but I will tell you about my case (I'm sure it's not exceptional) - I'm still a student, I don't have a 'proper' job yet and to the top of it - I don't play much QL, few duels/ffas a month maybe. So I'm not really keen to buy account, but in your case I would be happy to donate few bucks :) (I've got a scholarship).

I don't want money for myself, but the perspective of using it to do more community stuff is intriguing. I put a donation page in the opening post.

Great :) Did my little contribution.

And if you already have prem or pro account buy a friend one! :P

Nice work again :)

Fantastic!

I know its early and you have probably thought about it yourself already, but it would be great if each player had its own color.

Is it possible to get the direction each player is faceing?

Yes and yes :)

Woo-Hoo :D!

But then, perhaps not only the direction, but also the view angle ? Or wait... this would require access to the player configs with cg_fov settings :/

If it would be like in q4 where zoom actions are recorded in the demo, then this data could be retrieved also for this kind of 2d minimap overlay (showing, when someone is changing fov/zooming) :|

Good idea, something a la commandos! Will look into that :)

This is great, i remember UT2004 having this as a spectator feature for tournaments, it would be nice whit a mini map for tournaments and they should add HP and armor beside the names as well i think.

no

I say, good sir, why not?

when did ut2k4 have this?....

like... for a good while? i played UT2004 four years ago or something and even then it had become kinda standard?

here's a example, to your right u have the 2D overlay and to left you have the players HP and armor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-nwR7So3xQ&feature=relmfu

This is pure awesome! [+] [+] [+]

Nobody noticed the 5hp bubbles being rendered as shards, yet :)

tbh you suck in duels. :D but the project seems great

have you checked the quakeworld's radar (the same thing)? they've done it to the point where you can see lg and projectiles flying, dot size compared to other player's tells who is higher-lower and miniature "gun" showing the view direction. I don't see why this couldnt be implemented into wolfcam or something. looks like this:

http://i.imgur.com/F1bBZ.png

Overall really nice work again!

That looks awesome. Which client do u use?

It's nQuake

this cfg
with this hud (iirc there are different versions inside and i think the simple items came with this also)
this charset
this cross

I don't comprehend what is going on in my QW folder so if anything seem out of ordinary then ask and ill look into it :)

And I had some errors with the hud from time to time but reloading it helped (bound it to f8 in my cfg).

Alright. Thanks! :]

= you are using ezquake ;)

As far as i understand then nQuake is an advanced version of ezQuake aka it includes it.

nquake is a well setup qw pack that uses ezquake as it's client.

k, ty

Indeed, please share your cfg/hud and what client you use!

It's nQuake

this cfg
with this hud (iirc there are different versions inside and i think the simple items came with this also)
this charset
this cross

I don't comprehend what is going on in my QW folder so if anything seem out of ordinary then ask and ill look into it :)

And I had some errors with the hud from time to time but reloading it helped (bound it to f8 in my cfg).

thank you kind sir! :)

thats quake 1? looks awesome :o

Quake feels soooooooo fast when you're used to CS's minimap and you see this!

haha exactly what i was thinking

genius

great work, this is excactly what i had in mind when i pm'd you earlier :) did an easier topdown view of the demo instead.

im gonna see lots of problems with teammodes as ql demos are fucking awful and you barely see anything around yourself because of the visleafs or whatnot so getting a comprehensive look from above is gonna be really hard :I

memento,why you always try to block rockets?

asd, ischju used homing missiles in that match... :V

Aren't there some cheats that do pretty much this :D?
Also is this analysing the demo in real time and displaying the radar as the game goes on or is it only possible on an already recorded demo?

Currently, this works on recorded demos, as stand alone program. The in-game overlay is a video editing trick to get a sense of it working.

I realize its not implemented into the game but the question is if you can read out the demo files in real time as they are created which afaik is possible. As that would be significantly more useful than just for later replay of demos.

There are some planned features, like jumping at any time in the demo, play backward, and so on, that would require the whole demo. I think we will focus on that.

About the live thing, looks like a dangerous area to enter. The most obvious use would be to use it as a cheat on a second screen. Imagine the effect on a last-minute comeback and the other guy hiding. So, I don't know. I would like streamers to be able to use this, similarly to the competition hud, but I can't think of a way to do it that would not have malicious uses. /me is puzzled.

I don't think it would be any more useful then a wallhack or a radar. But perhaps you can code it in a way that it only lets you use it if you are spectator (I guess that information is stored in the demo). If you then don't release the source code I guess people won't be able to change that?

That's a good idea. I will look into it :)

sombra had a radar

sombra had the law behind him.

no, a radar is just a radar. it won't display more than a wallhack would, this actually displays the whole map. qw does have ingame overlay for specs because of the mvd thing we are still missing in ql ;)

i can't wait to see some TDM stream with this Map.
Awesome job !

You are fucking mental (this is a compliment btw)

This tool can make TDM casts enjoyable, on top of everything!

So sick.

Does the enemy pause/black out for a second when he's out of range?

Currently, it gets a bit transparent and drawn with dashed lines.

This is really impressive.
How about a feature which lets you "merge" POV's of both duel players - allowing minimap to correctly show all positions and items?

Unfortunately even merging povs (which might be a mess given the parallel worlds each player lives in), you may still not see anything in a part of the map, especially in duel. It's nevertheless a good idea.

MVD would be the way to go I guess.

I think 2 POVs in duel are enough:
-items can disappear only when picked up - this event will be always visible in one of the demos.
-items respawn always after static delay - we can predict when it's going to appear, even if visleaf containing it is not visible by either player.

If both players lose view on an item, we can safely predict that it's going to stay there.

Only problem left is synchronization, but it should be possible to implement.

Syncronization would be awesome as we would finally have some sort of MVD, which on its own is a great feature.

I've talked to a friend of mine about this. He's working a lot with demos, and unlike me, actually knows C/python, so he can make scripts and all that. I brought up the idea of merging two povs, which really is quite a challenge, but still possible. Along with that, it would also be possible to figure out whether or not an "invisible" item has been picked up or not, and redraw it if it should still be there (a 5hp bubble out of range that hasn't been picked up by either player, but is out of range of both of their povs, should be drawn).

I wish I knew how to code :(

Learn, kitty. Learn.

Creating a server side demo equivalent from every client side demos recorded is an awesome idea but that sounds really hard to do.

It actually isn't that hard. It takes a while to learn what everything means, but I've successfully combined a few frames from a couple different demos. The only reason I haven't really made much progress is because I do everything manually; I can't write a script to do it all for me.

The way client info is saved is really weird though. Normal entities are one thing, but half of the info for each player makes no sense to me. It's just gibberish :(

I think it is feasible, but requires quite some depth.

One has to understand the info of each client, use the client ping to try and remove the lag effect, and then combine all client data (likely non agreeing with each other) into a unique vision.

This is not something you do in one day, nor in two. It's definitely good work though. Would teach anyone quite something about these things.

Oh, I know it would take a while. I'm just saying that it is possible. I used to think it wasn't, but then I realized that anything is possible with tech3 :P

I wouldn't release this. You are giving code/idea to a hacker to create an undetectable cheat. This will make the wall hack obsolete. I know you have good intentions but we can't have nice things until ID does something about hacks.

The stance where "the other side has to do first" is a perfect plan to get into deadlocks where no one does anything.

considering that quake radars have been around for 10 years its hardly relevant

I love that Quake is still being carried by the community despite id's best efforts to keep us out (qlranks is another example). This is awesome.

Extremely cool.

If that could be implemented as a minimap for spectators that would be absolutely amazing.

Really shows just how much distance gets covered in a game.

It would be really nice if the grid could be removed and have the background transparent for a video overlay.

Just a thought, how would it look if the map could rotate as the player turns?

Can you put the code on github? How are you rendering the overlay, OpenGL? Then a simple non-windows executable should be easily doable...

The gui is written in QT, rendering with QPainter. Making cross-platform binaries should not be a problem. I will release the source code once I get a first version with enough features.

looking forward to code. thx Great work btw.

now make anticheat :D

Love it! This would be amazing for analysing team positions in TDM.

Really awesome... thank you for being there and doing things :)

On larger maps you start missing information because the demos don't record everything that goes on in the game - meaning when the enemy is out of the sound range (not sure but seems like it) then he will not be see in the demo and thus not on the radar. You can see it from this clip also when some of the items dissappear.

Maybe if you could add data from several demos, combine them or whatnot, then you would see the players at all times. Maybe even combain several diff demos to compare diff openings and analyse the timings.

admins please, let this guy go above the 100% mark, all these wasted [+]'s are killing me.
The idea itself is far from being new, yet its realization is incredibly well done. Thank you so much.
Would you believe me, M.M., if I said I want to hold you tight and never ever let you go, in a totally no homo way?

100 = own user level.

overflow

Well done Meme it is really an amazing job!

watching the demonstration vid i suddenly felt nostalgic. I miss you, championship manager 4.

Great work, btw!

this is useful and a great addition, but I don't understand why everyone is jettisoning the earth out of orbit with explosions of jizz over this. the map overlay thing has been around for ages and it doesn't turn the world upside down, it's slightly convenient when you can't fly outside the map, which should be enabled.

about the app, all that's left I guess is an alpha channel.

"but I don't understand why everyone is jettisoning the earth out of orbit with explosions of jizz over this." - you don't undetstand because you are never grateful of anyone's contributions. all we have ever seen you do is sit back and criticize, when you yourself do nothing for the quake community (btw, helping to run ESR does not count). feel free to post something positive for once in your life. until then, stop complaining about everyone else's hard work when you contribute nothing but negativity in every single post you make.

i will be surprised if this post gets approved

Your crazy jedi mind games tricked me into approving this post =(

WHHHHHHHHYYYYY?!?!

dear raythenoob, I know this will never reach you, because you have a screwed up brain which can't operate logically, but it's interesting to point out just how screwed up it is.

you don't undetstand because you are never grateful of anyone's contributions.

i just said "it's great and useful". you must be pretty screwed up if you think wondering why some people think it's 'earth shattering' has anything to do with not being grateful.

all we have ever seen you do is sit back and criticize

who, "we"? voices in your head? yes, I do like to sit back, but more so to recline or even lay back. criticize? not so much, I have different kinds of conversations, I don't usually criticize largely positive contributions.

feel free to post something positive for once in your life.

I just did, I said it's great, useful, and at worst, slightly convenient feature if the alternative is boundless free-float. is "slightly positive" = "negative" inside your screwed up mind?

until then, stop complaining about everyone else's hard work

why not? I'm not taxing the sites storage requirements or being utterly crazy and illogical with my rare posts like some people who had to be banned.

I think you are unfair with your comment. Working on ESR helps the community. Certain work may be behind the scenes, but it's valuable and necessary.

you're a really nice person, aren't you.

I was gifted with happiness, and try to broadcast it.

"but I don't understand why everyone is jettisoning the earth out of orbit with explosions of jizz over this." -- that is because you do not appreciate anyone's hard work. in every post you make, you always want to be RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT. what basis do you have for feeling superior?

easy to sit back and criticize, when you yourself do nothing for the quake community (btw, helping to run ESR does not count). feel free to post something positive for once in your life. until then, stop complaining about everyone else's hard work when you contribute nothing but negativity in every single post you make.

everyone always wants "the upper hand" but never wants to put in the time and dedication necessary to achieve it

even if you are not raytheboon, you need as much help as he does, and this is not the right place for brain surgery.

works on linux?

I will do my best so that that happens.

this :C

Nice work!! hope there will be some public release soon :)

For why? You have too few wallhacks? Sorry, but this is imho only another new cheat ...

i can't understand why you can make cheat for your beloved game ...
Please don't realse this code as public! In this time can be this used only as undetected cheat. Don't make it please!

U have my big respect for your programer skill, but don't make this please. This is only a next stupid wallhack. Yes, u don't have 3th dimension, but still is it only wallhack ... Don't make it

This isn't way what comunity need. Maybe many players love you, but its in all time wallhack.



peace

It currently works on demos only. No live visualization while playing.

I think you misunderstand how this works.

You may have gotten the idea, from watching the video, that it overlays the "radar info" on top of the game while it is running... it doesn't. That video was made to show that the data matches. Those are 2 different videos, one rendered on top of the other to demonstrate the demo player works reasonably well.

This is an experimental tool based on UDT. It is a self-sufficient 2D demo player. It doesn't use, require nor interfere with QL/Q3.

A hack reads and/or writes data from/to a running process. To do so it usually injects code into the process. That code will locate the data it needs to operate, then do its processing and maybe draw additional stuff on screen (via overlay or whatever).

None of the UDT code allows you to do any of those hack things (process injection, locating the entities data, overlaying info above the running game, etc) nor does any of the code help you with that.

I hope this alleviates your concerns :-)

But if he releases the code, within 5 minutes it'll be made into a real-time wallhack. I don't mind though; I don't care about this game anymore, and this is a really cool tool.

I will think through it with _myT and decide how to proceed. I don't want this to be used as cheat, and if the only way is really to not release the source code, then let be it. Going for some kind of module approach, of for some heavy customizable viewer are also possible approaches.

There is a part of the code based on code released as GPL that has to be distributed by law. It's a crucial part, but not enough on its own to make a cheat without additional work.

One argument could be why would somebody pick this over a real wallhack, but I'm not really interested in defending my actions this way. I don't want to help cheaters, no matter what.

I do agree that this would be a horrible real-time wallhack, especially since it would take some modding to work like that, which would turn off the people who would want to use it like that anyway (the people who would want to use this as a wallhack are people who don't want to develop their own wallhacks, either because they're lazy or don't know how).

I would like to see this open-sourced, just because I have crazy respect for everyone who open-sources their projects.

Good luck, I guess. Not much else I can say :E

quake radars have been around forever though

for a game you don't really care about :D

It's still a cool tool. I help with Wolfcam, which is a demo-player for a game I don't really care about :/

Added a new video in the op.

Next step: turn this into a Flash game.

Also, maybe add some chat bubble for when people are typing, and a display @ the bottom for when people say shit. Maybe. IDFK.

Absolutely perfect!
Can't wait to see the final product. ^______^

I guess converting every map and making this compatible with all gametypes will take some time.

This will be a great resource to have while analyzing games.

Especially if it's like the past 3 weeks where I could put zero time to work on this. Eventually though, it will happen.

nice! can you make gtv, too?

make us stuff man!

How is that going?

My IRL job has very alternated schedules. Last month was in deadline-mode and worked my ass off to finish some. Now that I'm back to the living, I will continue with this.

Where do I download >:L

http://www.esreality.com/post/2297844/2ddemoviewer01released/

I actually made that post as a joke. I had no idea it was available! T_T