worked great for painkiller

I originally fantisized about this in TDM format, if that helps :(

There it wasn't some rich dude but a dubious organisation that had been known to act stupidly in almost every aspect (only invited people could cover events from the CPL, if players complained about money not being paid in public they lost all the money etc.).

i wonder how a human being could craft out such a genius idea

you must be an extraterrestial...from the future!

Spread that 1,000,000 over a couple of years instead of all at once.

also this :p

Wouldn't be as effective though.

I think you have a point.

Would not save anything...

What would save QL is:

1st and most important, more attention from id Soft to the community. You know, stuff like: stable game-service, fast bug-fixes, regular updates, etc.

2. More advertising of the game trough Adds and Reviews in print Magazines and on big gaming sites.

3. A steady series of tournaments with decent prize-money for Duel and TDM/CTF (you can argue what is more entertaining to watch I prefer CTF). Imagine:

2x DreamHack with Duel and TDM (~20'000€ for Duel and ~30'000$ for TDM/CTF)

4x IEM with Duel (Cologne, NY, +1 other Venue and Grand Final at CeBIT with a total prizemoney of ~60'000$)

1x ESWC with Duel (~25'000$)

1x UGC with Duel (~25'000$)

1x QuakeCon with Duel and TDM (~30'000$ for Duel & ~40'000$ for TDM)

+ Some dozen Online tourneys per year (Zotac, JeeSports +some more)

Like this it would be considerable to commit to QL as a main "job" and people would have a reason to play 6-10 hours a day. Now it's like: "Nah... 4k for first place? Not worth it I will chill, learn for college, hang out with friends/girlfriend and prepare 1 week before the tournament like anyone else from the top 16...".


I know it's totally unrealistic and probably never will happen with Quake Live nor Doom 4 nor Quake 5 nor with any other DMFPS, but it's what would rescue our genre from dying for several more years/decades.

With what I suggested you would be able to spend that 1'000'000 you proposed in ~3-4 years and ensure much more than one big 256 slot cpl-style tournament, that everyone would forget about after 1-2 years. There already was such a attempt for what you envisioned in Quake 3 Arena by the way, it was called "Razer CPL"...

That would be very effective yes but, for me it just seems there are more probabilities of some random person donating 1.000.000 € in that manner than id software actually getting of their ass and doing what the community knows is best. :(

Most of that stuff isn't even tied to id Soft, only stuff they need to do is to give QL a bit more love. Also what would stop a rich dude from actually hopping on the boat of all those tournaments as the main sponsor for the QL-part of them and spend his 1 Million USD troughout 3-4 years? Like this it even could be someone who doesn't have 1'000'000$ just lying around in his save but someone who earns quite a lot per year, so much that he could spend 250-300k of it for Quake per year.

Also a good idea, Indeed.

I left my original post purposely vague so that people could post variations.

Pro teams should create content with their players, a little like the Jeesports coaching idea. But more like http://www.youtube.com/user/myEGnet youtube channels like this which feature content from the top players.

Shows like lvlupTV's series could be great if, lets say just for an example, they got tox or stermy to come on and talk about the maplist for DHW. Stermy has definitely been the best so far at being there for the community with his live streams and bringing UGC.

Pretty much true and is done already a lot, look at Memento's casts and show, coolers weekly show, lvlup's stuff and I think soon there will be even more of such stuff for QL.

Yep, well this is the kind of content that attracts new players (and player numbers attract sponsors). I think someone should do some more basic videos, like some aim & movement tutorial, or a general map control/timings guide to make quake a little easier to enter. If done comprehensively that could be great. I'd have a go at it but I don't have the recording equipment :{ twister's video was a really good commentary showing the tactical insights on dm13 as well. All this stuff is very hidden though, and ESR is a little like CB in terms of the dated website :P

Would I have a little bit more skill in terms of php and mySQL and java (I'm decent enough with (X)HTML/CSS and Photoshop) and would have a bit more time. I would totally go for a redesign of ESR including vital stuff like streams/videos and some modernization of the site itself. But I don't have the time/skillz and ESR-community is so elitist that it will never accept something up to date over their beloved site that looks like this since what fucking 2004?

"I would totally go for a redesign of ESR including vital stuff like streams/videos"

This is needed.

Plus the site needs more clarity for finding content. (see http://www.teamliquid.net/ )

For id I guess their thoughts to the community are "Well you don't take yourselves seriously either" : O

"I would totally go for a redesign of ESR including vital stuff like streams/videos and some modernization of the site itself."

What exactly do you have in mind, functionality wise? What do streams and videos have to do with ESR?

How about ESR having its own duel ladder :D and then, tdm ladder

Yes, in the plans actually.

maybe a new section which includes QL (and other games) related websites, such as that duel ladder project, the website which already has links and schedules for upcoming streams, and so on.

and yes, this is because I can't remember them nor find them in google

Easily done with a sticky post in QL forum section and has nothing to do with functionality.

no one browses the forums

So not true...

They don't have anything to do with ESR itself but since ESR is probably one of the biggest and important, if not THE most important Quake (Live) related site it would only be logical that it should be up to date in terms of functionality (like a fucking [-] option which I would love to have, a propper search function etc.) and would be as informative as it could get (streams have proven to be something that can make a game really popular look at LoL).

the [ - ] was implemented multiple times, and it turns out the audience of this site can not use it responsibly. it takes a few days before everyone is 'minused to death'. as for 'streams', do you realize that means a TOTALLY different website than ESR? wit ha different hosting model and no text content or news content on the front page? anyway, thanks for your inputs, I think I got what I need it.

A decent sister-website for streams can be set up in 1-7 days, you don't need to mess with the ESR site itself, just add a link.

so... it has nothing to do with improving ESR...

your point being?

...
did you read the comment I'm replying to? it means he can do it now, or you can do it now. it has nothing to do with the premise of this post.

it has everything to do with improving ESR... but if modifying esreality.com itself is too much hassle I'm just pointing out it can be done on a different website and then incorporated into esreality.com via link or iframe. Do you know anything about how websites work, or are you just being difficult for the sake of being difficult?

google search seem to be doing good job after all.

What does teamliquid and starcraft streams have common. Same thing

Make a specific suggestion. We can embed and link to any stream/video without ANY function change to the site.

I was thinking more about showing active streams in a box like tl.
If I want to watch some starcraft I go there and on the right sidebar I see tournaments and streams linked to that tournament and if its a random game stream just a link of the stream.
And on a mouseover you can see the viewer numbers to see what is more popular/important if you dont know tournaments (not needed for ql).
But its not that needed anymore since there is this live ql thing and greasemonkey script that will show active streams.

like http://nsx.cx/

well it's awesome that nobody listened to my cast a few weeks ago... but anyways I'm up to do some tutorials for new ppl... but my pc can't really stream + get enough fps etc :p

So if anyone feels obliged to help me out just gimme a reply and we can prolly work smth out.

1. False. Quake needs nooooobs, a looooot of noooobs. Infinite hords of noobs that can get crazy about the game and play it at least 2h/day with same skilled player and watch better players to learn new things. ID's updates or bugfixes are nothing compared to that. I as 10 years of experience gamer am not getting discourage by bugs, all of them are pretty minor. Even more, those bugs are less visible for new players, so this is not the problem. We have a lot of maps to play for them as well.

Maybe the bad thing is premium access, so they can't play on every map they see on the streams. Target should be to attract new players by good designed Web (it's not it atm), that do everything for the player, gives him chance to find game best suited for his skill and needs. Now searching for games is pain in the ass. 4 clicks to change gametype from Duel to TDM and without greasemonkey scripts it's so ugly and retarded anyway.

2. True.

3. False. Now there is enough tournaments to satisfy community needs. None of players take part in all of them. Of course more the better, but it won't help QL be top1 shooter.

Concerning 1st point:

New players won't come to this game if it has a possibility of running fucking poorly on a 1-2 old machine while the game itself is more than 10 years old. They also won't come if there would be the possibility of sens fucking up with every map restart (which is distracting even on a beginner level). Also they won't come if the game/website could crash because of unknown reasons at the most unthinkable times. Also there will be monthly or at least seasonal updates and special-events the people that are playing the game for fun won't get bored after 1-2 months because they have seen everything interesting for them. See? If id doesn't help the game new players won't find it interesting or will get disappointed by all the stuff that goes wrong in it (like the fucked up tier-system, would you like to meet k1llsen in one of your first 100 duels in QL? No, well there are certainly people who had the pleasure of this meeting).

Concerning 3rd point:

Remember how things vent during Quake III Arena times, or Quake 4 times (if you are really playing video-games for 10 years you should be aware of what it looked back then). There were tournaments in regular time-periods so people had to train constantly not like now where the pros simply play for 1 week before the tournament then play the event and then go on a chill-out vacation for the next months. What I proposed would make 9 big tournaments per year which isn't much if you look at how much events are held atm. per year in SCII. Heck even games like SSF IV/Halo get more attention due to MLG than Quake Live gets with all of it's LAN events combined.

There were tournaments in regular time-periods so people had to train constantly not like now where the pros simply play for 1 week before the tournament then play the event and then go on a chill-out vacation for the next months.

it was like that for painkiller and quake4, never for quake three tho.. the three stops cpl did in 2008 and 2000-2001 being the exception.

Ye I must admit I can't remember that many Q3A events than I can remember PK/Q4 tourneys. I thought the sheer awesomeness of CPL World Tour blew away my memory about Q3A but it seems there were not that many tournaments for it...

QL is not as buggy as you say. I don't have any problems with it for a long time. Maybe it had some slowmo moments recently but it's still pretty stable. I don't know if it's your PC or web browser or anything but I can't imagine anyone new to quake to quit only because of software/hardware issues. Even important bugs reported in the past like rockets not dealing damage are not even noticed by newbie players.

If new player quits game for ever it's 95% chance that he got raped and assumes that it's to hardcore game to continue playing. He wants to type quakelive.com hit big PLAY button and have fun. This is the place where QuakeLive fails.

Matchmaking and skill tiering are the thing I pointed as well. However I must admit that recently I observe that I in most cases win matches against "Your Skill is Higher" opponents, have a hard time with "More Challenging" but I win occasionally and I always lose to "Diffcult" players. So this is not taken from nowhere and I can also see some correlation of skill tier with ELO points in QLRanks. The problem is calculation of this skill for players that just registered, but it's not an easy case.

--

Quake3 was absolutely new game when it was released so the overall skill level was pretty low comparing to nowadays. Also there was not so many alternatives like CoD, Battlefield and other FPS games except CS. It was a brand new game and the hype of gaming scene was around that title. I mean, it's a great game, very competitive and you can do many different things out there, but it's like football. It's really fun to play, but kinds from a small village won't have fun playing against Barcelona (if they play seriously) even if there are World Cups every month with 1,000,000,000 $ prize poll because this is not their target anyway.

quake live has a lot of noobs already. Thing is, you can't see them playing because it filters those servers.
It should show those but not let you in, but w/e.

you have to face it:
Purely competetive games that require skill don't sell to the masses ...
the only chance imho is a teambased fps game where a bad player can still win bethanks to a good team ... fps duel is definately too frustrating, in duel n00bs get owned too hard and they only want to ragequit

sc2

had this argument already ...
won it easily ...
conclusion was sc2 sold because of its single player (and the advertising campaign for the single player) and the multiplayer is free of subscription fees, also in SC2 the score is at worst 0-1, but in quake you can lose like -2:21 ...
But I am not in a while(true) loop and repeat myself endlessly

ahashfahaHAHAHAHASHAAHH HAAH FAH HAH AHAHAH

Who did you face in that argument pls?! The single-player of SCII was medicore at best, I would even call it boring and stupid. I played the same type of single-player in Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War back in 2006. The part that gets SCII it's players is the name Blizzard has, the popularity of SC(:BW) and the sheer amount of medial publicity it gets because of the whole pro-scene and the streaming phenomena. Single-Player doesn't sell a game like SCII it's the name and the community.

don't argue with that scrub he's fucking clueless.

'quake requires more skill because you can lose -2:22 instead of 0:1 like in sc2 fuck that game.'

you clearly don't have a logical mind ...
go talk nonsense somewhere else ...

That's the worst attempt at paraphrasing I've ever seen.

the quake brand was famous too,
so was the name id ...
if quake was sold like starcraft, e.g. with a very strong single player that would be anticipated like Battlefield 3, you would have also a strong multiplayer community (if the multiplayer is without subscription) ... in a way id software threw away the potential of quake ...
and subscription service for multiplayer-only games really only works for nobrainer games like all these hackn'slay mmorpgs ...
not for games requiring real skill ...
quake multiplayer could be sucessful, if the single player was very strong and the multiplayer was free ...
in a way id threw away the potential of quake ...
there wouldn't be any big community for a subscription-based sc2 or bf3 where a single player was never created ...

I have sc2 and I never even once touched the singleplayer. There are plenty of people who bought the game because of the single player but most of them prolly because of the multiplayer. This doesn't mean that most of those people play ladder. More like custom maps and 2v2/3v3/4v4.

like i said, arguing with him is pointless ;D

You do know that SC2 is paying out more than $200,000 per month in prizes right now, and SCBW had been doing so for almost a decade, right?

QL is way more hardcore than SC2.

In SC2, even playing against grandmaster-caliber player you can do a lot of actions and spend at least few minutes of time before you will be raped. This is the worst possible case, usually you can enjoy even the most disastrous games for 10-15 minutes.

In the QL, however, if the skill gap is big enough (not necessarily huge), you will be owned from the very first seconds (not minutes!), and then you will have few options - either give up after less then one minute of play, or be beaten more and more and more during the whole 10 minutes.

What makes situation even more pronounced, is the fact that QL and SC2 mentalities have different takes on sportsmanship. In QL it is considered as BM if you will quit the game with obviously more stronger opponent who is beating you, and in SC2 it is considered as BM when you are NOT quiting the game with more stronger opponent who is beating you.

This way, QL wins in hardcore department - but loses badly in popularity.

This is the worst possible case, usually you can enjoy even the most disastrous games for 10-15 minutes.

Pros can lose a game in 5 minutes, and if you were scouted by a pro, you wouldn't even last half that long.

you see his point tho, right? what you say has nothing to do with his argument.

whether the opponent is a pro or not is irrelevant in bw/sc2. if you start losing the game, you leave, easy as that. you will have had fun building your base and executing your BO up until that point.

Yeah, in SC2 you can improve without sustaining the beating from more skilled player, and in QL this is the only way to grow further.

It isn't fun just building to that point against someone significantly better than you.

well, as soon as you notice the opponent is significantly better, you leave, no problem.

People do that in Quake, too.

i suggest you re-read the line of replies.

the point is, that in sc, its acceptable, in quake, it is not.

It has nothing to do with the actual game. You can stay or quit in either game.

i don't see why you refuse to understand the point.

It's a point of choice.

That's why I wrote about FEW minutes.

Learn to read, pal.

its because in ql you can gain all the advantage is possible to get in ~10 seconds. in sc2 advantage is exponentially grows.

as far as BM goes in sc2 finding a game takes exactly one click than youll be playing in one minute. in ql sometimes you spend 15-20 minutes until u able to play, in this case it isnt pleasent when the fucker quits after 2mins...

Hence the need for proper matchmaking with ladders and leagues support. To bad id is being shy about it for all 3 years...

"....fps duel is ....." FPS DUEL.

all of the said ideas don't benefit the game at all really.
The player base is more than enough already, top players are attending to events, and there are enough tournaments (online at least).

What the game lacks the most is content, and secondly LAN tournaments.Problem is this is not a monetary issue.
If id decides to do things right, like they did in the first 3 quake games, then the game would be saved immediately.

Putting more money into duel won't get anything back. TDM or CTF would get you a much better return. Duel doesn't build a community.

I originally fantasized about the idea in for TDM but I guessed duel would be more appropriate. Maybe TDM IS the way to go for this kind of thing.

Not completely true. Duel is the most simple yet entertaining gametype to watch in Quake and arguably the whole eSports thingy. TDM and CTF however bring some freshness into the game and can bring out potential new "stars" that wouldn't have the chance to become pros in duel due to their limited abilities in that gametype or the sheer effort you need to succeed in that gametype.

The death of quake is because people play to earn money and not play for having fun ...

You can't earn money atm. with QL so even the pros are playing it because they can travel by playing quake and meet new people/ old friends. Most of the community never will have a shot at the prize-money that is given out for quake-events so they play purely for the fun and the competition-side of the game.

and so why they dont play and fill online tournaments and big names/teams shows up only 2 weeks before a lan / prize tournament ??

Didn't get my point it seems. They show up because they can travel to a different country and have some fun with people they know from past LAN-Events, they don't really care about the money but only about the event itself. Ofc they are not playing online most of them are far beyond the level were they play the game because they enjoy it and want to improve in it. Cooller said in his 1st weekly show, that if it wouldn't be for the traveling and the contract he had he wouldn't play QL at all, also he said that if a Quake 5 came out he would only play it if he could earn money with it since the game itself is uninteresting for him. To some point you are right but come on, EU players can't live from the 3'000 to 5'000 EUR/USD they win if they place 1st and the ?hundred USD they get if they have a payed contract, so doesn't cooller or rapha or any other good QL player from Moscow or the USA (in other parts of Russia 5k USD can be a lot of money but in Moscow this is nothing). The only ones who could live trough it are games from other parts of eastern Europe (like av3k said in one of his interviews).

exactly.

tbh theres like ~50 players who have a shot to earn a single coin. maybe it is a problem in tdm, but certainly not in other gametypes. even if youre a solid B player you cant really sustain yourself from quake thats for sure.

5$

good idead only if you split it into 10 x 100k event this way there would be 100 x more advertising (ie what zotac is doing)

im guessing that you are making the implicit assumption that someone putting a million bucks into a tournament (or a series of tournaments or whatever) and the resulting publicity will prod id into actually making use of the opportunity to reach out to the resulting audience and secure a player base. this would actually involve them doing something with the ql project rather than being happy with - "hey we've put ql on a browser, how cool! now lets go back to doing nothing".

i dont think this assumption is justified. lets face it, they had the opportunity already initially when they had the whole - wow quake for free - concept going. we can sit here arguing actual numbers but its pretty clear that the number of people who tried ql when it came out of beta is far larger than the number who actually stuck around to play it consistently. they had the opportunity to reach out to that number and blew it. and i personally dont think theyve learnt anything from that lesson. o wells.

your approach is really top down in the sense that u think throwing money at a tournament will trickle down to the game developer and the community through the publicity generated. i personally think the only way for ql to regain some glory is for a bottom up approach. i think there needs to be a significant commitment from id to put some work into ql. i would list what things need to be done but there are other threads which talk in detail about that. if this was actually done (which wont happen but one can dream), and if we had a good marketing campaign which actually managed to garner attention from previously unreached audiences (which also wont happen), then we might actually expand the player base to a point where tournaments, even sponsored ones, happen by themselves.

since all this has been discussed before, im going to leave this post with this question - since it doesnt appear likely that id is interested in fulfilling the ql project's full potential, what can we do as a community to keep quake as a competitive and interesting game, both for newbs and for the jaded pros?

"(which wont happen but one can dream)"

Well this thread is me dreaming, as I have lost faith in id Software. I was vague on purpose for people to generate more ideas, and posts like yours are exactly what we need.

As for what can we do as a community, we should request ESR, being the nucleus of QL playerbase, to provide a duel ladder and tdm ladder in ESR, for example...

Honestly, that money would be better spent buying back the IP rights for the Quake brand from id/Zenimax, and the existing QL infrastructure, and using whatever is leftover to fund a new development team that would work on salvaging QL and making a sequel (or even salvaging QL and selling the rights to Quake 5 to a different developer).

You wouldn't even need a very large or expensive team for that. Ideally there would be a tech team tasked with server maintenance, several community handlers and support guys from both US and Europe to make sure shit is spinning 24/7, and then a decentralized web of developers drafted from the market and the community itself. That would be beautiful.

;_;

It would indeed be beautiful, I would edit my post with all these ideas if I weren't on probation.

Ok, who donates?

P.S. Also: hats

Blowing all the money in the asses of the same 16-32 top players is such a good idea to save the game...
Better invest it in:
- 2 fulltime devs for 1 year
- Threewave licence fees
- Anticheat fees
- Expanding payment options for the users
- Advertisement

I said 256 or more... and yes it would be great for it to be donated to the QL dev team but... would they do it? WOULD THEY!

this man has a point.

I would say rather:
- Proper match making system
- Newbie incubator

You know, if everyone who was consistently on the ESR and/or QL forums donated $10 as prize money to the next tournament, we could probably amount to at least $8,000 in total prize money. That's just 800 people worldwide.

yoyoyoy everyone donate $100 to me and i'll make and run a real tournament..

yea

do it!

Players complain if they to pay $10 just to enter a competition that would have dedicated admins, website, live streams and everything else over a 10 week period....not a chance that they'll donate for a tournament.

Having said that 4sg were able to get people to chip in to send Australian players overseas to competitions and we're not even big.

because that's the australian way!

g'day!

Even CNN would headline this shit.

ROFL. No.

you have no idea of the concept of a "slow news day"

CNN needs more than 17 viewers to justify broadcasting an absurd tournament for an absurdly bad video game, even on a "slow news day."

no mate i wasn't talking about broadcasting the tournament, ah forget it

No; we put that money into a new game that isn't broken and actually geared towards competitive gayming. Severity anybody?

some of us have quake in our veins and will stay on this sinking ship until ragnarok!

If i had that million I'd put into any other Quake but surely not ql.

QL can't be safed by the community if id software isn't helping.

without even the most basic / little support from id software you can pump 1000000$$$$$ in QL it won't be safed.

I was trying to generate ideas with my obviously flawed post.

Everyone knows what must be done. There have been tens of topics about this.

one more won't hurt!

face it ql is a good as dead

The business model failed, it will last exactly until zenimax closes it's fiscal year and realizes it's losing them money.

Especially now that rage kinda failed as well, ID will have no say in it themselves.

while that sounds alarmist, you have a point there. Even if the community steps up and finances directly the game or tournaments, id/zenimax can pull out plug whenever they want to.

I'd welcome the day actually, ql as it is doesn't attract new players anyway and quake 3 is just simply the better platform.

this

Imo it isn't but w/e.

It suits me. Log in, find a duel/ca server and then just play.
I don't care about billions of cvars and maps, there are enough for me and most of the people still only play their 2-3 maps and even q3 wouldn't change the ztn/aero/dm6 love.

The whole premium thing is killing the community.

If I were a QL product manager, I would remove Premium subscription option alltogether, and left only Pro option with an ability to start dedicated servers as its selling point. All maps and modes should be available to everybody, period. Of course, price of this new Pro subscription should be lowered to the price of current Premium one, or even less, cause at the moment it won't offer too much.

But then I would add following things to QL

1) Proper ELO ranking. Current one is one hell of a mess, preventing from finding closely skilled opponents in a reliable way.

2) Ladders with division into leagues. Accessible by everybody, regulars and pros. Automated matchmaking is a must - player should spend a minute to play 10 minute game, not 10 minutes to play 1 minute game (c) hgt

3) Finally, after 1 and 2 is done, huge feature available only to PRO subscribers - quick cups hosted by quakelive.com web site. Either periodic, created by QL site admins, or sporadic, created by Pro players. Support for brackets, player notifications and game arranging on the site, without the need for any 3rd party web sites or tools. Adding the skill cap to the tourney will allow to have cups with real rookies participating.

Will this measures resurrect QuakeLive? Don't know. But it definitely won't hurt to have it implemented.

I agree.

i also agree

make 2 x 500.000€ and those 500.000 devided into 100.000 for duell 150.000 for team modes and so on...

oh and make ql equal to q3 so we can actual enjoy playing quake

right, then the only thing one would have to do is make a still gun for q3, i can't stand how it moves around again

Tournaments could help, SC2 has a shitton of them, although there is no money at most, it keeps the players playing.
Those tournaments then need to be covered by someone on Youtube.

On a side note regarding recent ESR activity, I can't beleive this thread hasn't been trolled yet.

inoright, where r they

Fresh ideas are needed, pro tournaments are great but by its very nature, only a select group will have a shot. Ideas like "movie scavenging" FFAs and Large CAs where all attending players have a chance, and only the awesome frags make it to the final product. So as im not as good as say, cooller, but i hit in one of those massive matches a RL(feet)+RL(airox) or other good combo so i feel an important part of the community when i see my name in the "official" movie of the event. Millions of players millions! :D

The problem is that ql is a 10 year old game which means that it's impossible to catch the good players if you start playing it. Also all the tricks have been learned by now so that's why good players can go away between tournaments and can come back and do well again. No one can catch them at this point anymore, they are too much ahead. This applies to both duel and tdm. Tbh i don't think there's a way to save ql. It's just q3 which has run it's course by now. So let's enjoy it while it lasts because that probably won't be too long. Even CS is slowly dying because it's too old and the ppl who played it have quit gaming and new players play new games. CS was way more popular than any quake ever was too.

The problem is that Baduk is a 2 thousand year old game which means that it's impossible to catch the good players if you start playing it. Also all the tricks have been learned by now so that's why good players can go away between tournaments and can come back and do well again. No one can catch them at this point anymore, they are too much ahead. Even Chess is slowly dying because it's too old and the ppl who played it have quit gaming and new players play new games. Chess was way more popular than any baduk ever was too.

Yea I see Baduk tournaments and kids going crazy about them everywhere.

That said - Denmark - rapha - sitto - mamut etc...

There are lots of examples of overlapping newer players to the scene, vs old forces even rooted in QW or Q2.

Quake is old, yet if you invest time in it, you can even get on par with older teams and players. Not that big of a deal, if you have persistence.

A problem is actually that experienced players believe its impossible, and don't let them have a chance to play/improve. Its elitism at its best, really : /

who want to save ql ?
If i had a 1000000 euro i'd spend it on a brand new game with a new engine, maps, models, menu, physics, items, weapons etc.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize noone wanted to save QL. I'll just go now and uninstall the QL plugin. Good day.

.

i would rather that bunny hop be made to accelerate at a slower speed than proper strafe...so strafe jumping is maintained but the newbs get a trainings wheel version :p


or instead of trying to dumb down the game, do more helpful tutorials like you say and attract enough of a player base+good skill matching so that noobs can just play other noobs of similar skill.

i agree on gibs and other "whoa!" causing effects. streams kewl 2

ill let someone else flame on the weapons xd (too nab to comment)

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a complete redesign wouldnt make sense tho as 1, it consumes a lot of worktime/money 2, ql fine as it is. minor changes wouldnt make much difference and balancing the game out to make it stay competitive isnt worth it at this stage imo.

what we need instead:

1, matchmaking tool with various option like "find the fastest game, find a skill matched game etc" with an onsite ladder with 20-50 player groups of the same skill (ala sc2). nonetheless, id approach to anything is pathetic. there is qlranks, afaik only 2 guys made it, its a working system already. all id should do is spare a webdesigner for a few days than integrate it to the site. do they care? nah. when someone too stupid to accept free money its not much to do.

2, tutorials: config, movement (lot of defrag maps), aim (lot of aim maps like amphi just with other weapons), timing (with practice mode like the player collecting more health and armor wins the game instead of most frags),

3, streaming: absolutely crucial. in sc2 there is something to watch 24/7 and usually a few pros playing, everyone can interact with them. in ql its more like there 2 hour content to watch every second day. (someonline tournament, when half the time is setting up the server/get in the game etc)

4, gtv: teamgames are unwatchable, split screen viewing also needed.

5, an achievement system what makes sense, like: "having a positive net in a lost tdm game", "finishing a duel game without making a frag", "challenging a pro 10 times a month" etc.. . most achievments now is either really easy or completely luck based. instead, achievment should encourage players to take the harder route. and make achies viewable on the profile, to make players proud of it theyre not pussies even tho theyre noobs maybe.

6, more social oppurtnitys like a demo tool etc when noobs can post their frag after the game on facebook by 2 clicks.

7, complete redesign the site platform: where from u can get every ql-related content by two clicks instead of digging up the internet etc...

8, unlockable premium features: completed 95%+ of 300 10minute duel games = choose a premium map. next free premium map 400 games 95%+ completed, next one 500 gaems etc... same for noobs: FT can be unlocked thru CA / FFA...

9, anticheat: speaks for itself, probably very costy, but even a non-working anticheat would be much better than none.

10. noob-tdm: seems the gametype was much more alive with the 10 sec weapons mode. maybe make it even easier with quad announcer etc, just prevent accounts to join both server. it should be like you can opt-in to play "competitive or noob" every 2 day. with more than ~200 hours played on noob the player automatically prohibited to play the gametype anymore...

all in all what ql missing:
1, starter guide for noobs and field for them to play.
2, no particular reward for playing clean and being mannered.
3, no reward for trying to get good hard.
4, gather the whole project around competitive play

now thats for start. these would be the surely cost-effective changes, but im affraid we wont see any of it. most of these would actually cost only some effort. however until id really thinks some stupid halloween mod / few maps every 3 month will be the cookiecutter it worthless to talk about anything.

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really nice ideas here, mail to id :p

a)b)d)
all not a problem if you keep noobs playing noobs
there's been that many resources to learn quake as now

I had 0 experience as well 2 years ago and just kept on dueling similarly skilled players, that's such a beautiful process, I always had to improve to keep at their skill level and learnt new stuff, learnt to counter their new tricks etc..

Don't you dare touch my weaponz n' strafez! apart from that I agree.

Maybe some slight changes to weapons. Lower LG range by 10% or make it 7-6-5. Reduce rocket splash by 10-20%, increase rail damage to 90, slightly increase SG damage again, but nothing drastic.

it could do with a few thousand brand new players who are willing to spend the next five years practicing. :)

oh and a new developer.