where's the proof he cheated? (innocent question i have no idea who he is etc just point me to a post)

think he is saying that's zeroql

mb

mb = my bad, not maybe heh

My god he's right,its Zeroql and hes bought a pro account again.
See what going pro can do for you?

Well, it certainly doesn't stop you from getting banned again, right? :)

so what's your new account?

why dont u ever come on irc again u cheeky bastard

I do!

Well, if we disallow all cheaters, then there will simply be no mid or high skill competitive teams left.

He released a frag vid so he's allowed back.

yea he is a fucking hero. Lets forget he cheated.

If it is zeroql then any teams with any sense will simply tell them to fuck off when they ask for a pcw or try to join a league.

And now on to the topic of the clan your currently deceiving with your random alias..

If it is zeroql then any teams with any sense will simply tell them to fuck off when they ask for a pcw or try to join a league.

Players who don't care (or got misled?): gooda, bab, flash, the d9 clan
I bet the list will grow much longer soon.. unless he gets banned again.

yea, i'm pretty sure metsu didn't know who they were playing with, haha...
isn't atleast gooda on esr a lot? i think i saw bab posting aswell, where are they?

gooda: has been logged in today
bab: Currenly online
zeroql: has been logged in today

It's possible that some of them (and many others which could have relevant knowledge/opinions) have lithxiv on their ignore list and don't see this journal, though. ;)

because people are jokers

Oh look, he's back to doing 6k damage on maps like purgatory and dreadful place. Wonder how he was able to do 11-12k damage in most matches for a couple of weeks before getting caught with wallhack and autoshoot. ;)

:-D

divine intervention for those couple of weeks when all you cynics claimed he hacked.

what?

he was able to do 11-12k damage because god improved his accuracy, not because he cheated.

basically, i was trying to be funny but failed hard just forget it :\

inb4 'ok...'

please respond

what? (c) scowl

cant joke with germans

please what they gonna do, kill jews?

nah, they just make them take showers

well if thats not hospitality then u tell me what is

Dude he is just offshape, let him train for 2 weeks and he will be back @10k... take another 2 weeks after that and theres a thread called "zeroQL BUSTED AGAIN!!1111" @esr

But this guy is allowed back in a high profile team such as metsu for what reason?

Dunno, maybe because he's friends with these idiots at METSU?

So are you complaining about not having any friends who are willing to play with a douche like you?


I don't know whether D9 realized that it was him and whether they are ok with it. Go ask them?

Pretty sure hes got enough friends,guess you must have quite a few,being the type of person who hangs round Esr like some no lifer,I have never seen a community of such shitters as that in quakelive,get out there and grasp what little there is left of the fucking world,instead of living inside your digital goldfish bowl.But then that really does bring into question,are people like yourself not already dead in reality.

QED

you really don't have a life do you Scowl?

not gonna read any of that, but thanks for your reply, anon.

he made a plastic surgery and will come to DH so noone will know it is zeroql.

"What's up guys?"
"I heard u didn't like my latest video"
"See u online haters xx"

If that's zeroQL then it sums up metsu's point of view on cheating.

metsu is dead

and i wont play with zeroql in any leagues/cups, that's for sure

vidiyagames lol

Whatever, this game is dead anyway.

However, it shouldn't be 1 rule for him and another for everyone else. Hope he's banned again soon.

for everyone else? :[ most cheaters that got banned keep playing online anyway, so it's free pass for everyone, not just him!

There's a bit of a difference playing with a new nick in some low level team to playing in a top level team like metsu and making no real effort to hide yourself.

Is he taking part in any league games? No => #care -...

its not like cheaters are bad for the rep of QL/drive new players away/hurt QL in the end
once again, ignorance is bliss

I don't give a shit whether he plays some pcws vs other people. If the opponents are fine with it why should I or others care? I mean he won't be able to play league games but like in any other game you can't prevent them to actually play pub and/or private games.
New cs key/steam account => play, new battlenet account => play etc.
As long as he doesn't play league games or cheat => #care ...

Well you can't anymore tell new players who whine about being cheated that they should shut up and l2p because they might actually be right. Most of them will go back to cod/cs/bf, others might try cheats too. Long time players will leave too .. not all of them but the community shrinks after all. We don't have enough lans to allow online competition to become farcical.

New cs key/steam account => play, new battlenet account => play etc.

Keep banning his prem/pro accounts => no money => no play

I mean he won't be able to play league games

We will see..

Well you can't anymore tell new players who whine about being cheated that they should shut up and l2p because they might actually be right.

That's the best argument you could come up with?

1. New players struggle with fundamentally stuff like strafing, aiming etc. so yeah ofc everyone else who shits on them cheats in their opinion. Guess how many tier4 ca player called me a cheater :o (and I'm not really good so I don't wanna know what happens when really good people fakenick ;) ) The thing is that the skill gap in ca is so huge atm. There are people in tier4 who can't hit shit and their movement consists of rjs :P.
http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/matches/ff...1fd90/ca/1

I usually don't hit that much but guess how many called me a cheater yesterday? Try to tell them that their dodging is non existent hence hitting 45+ lg isn't that hard. I would rather play decent players than raping some scrubs but this is whole new problem and doesn't fit in that topic :x

2. How many cheaters are there really? I faced a few obvious ones in duel where I could tell after a couple of min that my opponent is cheating. But three people out of over 1000 duels isn't that much. I know that there might be and probably were more but do I really care when I lost a close game to someone who might use cheats in pub duels? To be honest no. In a league game this would be a whole different story tho.

Most of them will go back to cod/cs/bf, others might try cheats too.

That's a problem I explained in 2. But you got this in any other online game too. Some people can't accept the fact that someone else might be better than themselfs. And trust me cs was infested with cheaters: I doubt that either cod or bf is better in that regard.

Long time players will leave too .. not all of them but the community shrinks after all. We don't have enough lans to allow online competition to become farcical.

Mhn I don't really like the attitude of some long time players because exactly those are the kind of players who don't accept new players. The witch-hunt against juvenile is prolly the best example. That's why I don't really like vor and dis. Yeah they are great casters but some of their casting was so fucking biased and anti juvenile/vium back then that I turned the stream off. The thing is it's usually players who played the game for a very long time but never really reached the top who accuse rising players like juvenile the most. I don't really need to explain why, do I?
I hardly see any pros complaining besides the usual whiney cunts (hi @ winz)

Keep banning his prem/pro accounts => no money => no play

Agreed but you can't really do much against standard accounts :P

New players get pwned, that's a fact. Some of them are just not made to play fast paced shooters and will go back to camping crates after getting their ass handed in quake. Nothing can really be done about that. But if they lose they should think "wow that guy is good, I gonna train hard / watch demos / buy a new mouse/keyboard/120hz screen to become as good as him" and not "he's probably a cheater like most of the pros, there is no anticheat and even players like zeroql cheat, fuck this game". I hope you see what unbanning a cheater would do in this case.

Witch hunting and cheating paranoia always hurt a game. And sadly those result to a high degree from cheaters who get caught.

I only watched the stream when it was anti juve/vium, was epic.
Even remember them ghosting/cheating for a team in a 3on3 ca tournament, good stuff.

It is zeroql and afaik metsu checked in for some tournament.
Look at his last matches, without cheats (i suppose) he lost vs that nab bryantt trololol.
And yes, wtf with these fuckers in metsu, they support cheating or what?

what tournament ?

DSM are his initials so its pretty clear cut really, just /whois zeroql on irc.

While you are a cheater yourself so u don't really deserve any acknowledgement i'll say:

This is indeed ridiculous, he's not even trying to hide it. Yet there is hardly any moral outcry about the whole thing.

That shows 2 things:

1) cheaters like him know full well they can lull the community into acceptance by providing certain "benefits" (eg movie making)

2) fuck nr 2, cheaters suck and should never be accepted again period

I agree with what your saying and its pretty sad really.

As far as i'm concerned Metsu can rot. Theres absolutely no way they were totally oblivious to this going on and have actively accepted a cheater back into their clan.

Yes he makes some movies, big deal...suddendly a community hero wtf? was he just tested a bot? bullshit imo..he had wallhacks too pretty obviously...the whole thing was a joke with his glancing downwards to "pick up speed" but as he got banned the matter kind of just got forgotten about.

So who in Metsu let him back in then? someone did ? would it be that unrealistic to think that the vast majority of the clan knew about it and thought it was pretty cool?

While i'm here too:

Lithiv = "nohansolo7"
Fragma "RNF"

What bugs me the most is the total lack of respect now to just return even when the community doesn't want you. I think Fragma pulled the wool over yahooa's eyes pretty well in IK but metsu imo absolutely must have known full well what they were doing.

Hope you all enjoy the new bans!!

Think we just have to face the music by now really

This quake thing just isn't the same any more as back when we played bwtdm and eurocups and whatnot.

I've cursed 4k more than once (especially when we lost with 3 frags or so on dm7 in a bw game :P) but we at least played fair all the time, always.

Nowadays the default response seems to be lets cheat and make sure it doesn't happen instead of 'let's try and improve'

Just to be clear, metsu is zeroql clan. And if you would look at the lineup its not the standard metsu lineup either. And again its not mine, fl4sh. s7ry or bab clan. And to the question if snake_, kaide and gda knew they were playing with zeroql of cause they did.

He didnt really hide everyone in metsu knows he is dsm, And i didnt invite him back into the clan - though cant really see the harm. Teams should simply choose just not to play against him. Like ive choosen not to play with him isnt that hard really..

i was just mercing for them cause i wanna play tdm, but nowadays its not easy to find team so im just mixing when i can

and other than that i dont have anything to do with them

Yeah you really wanted to play tdm with a known cheater who plays under an alias.

Just go and find a different game will you

Just to be clear, metsu is zeroql clan.

With the "zeroql" account being banned, I assume he can't login to it anymore, can he? If so, somebody else with admin rights must have allowed him to join the clan "metsu".

Don't act like "oh he just started playing as 'metsu' with these new guys who have nothing to do with the former team metsu and we can't do anything about it".

I didnt do anything why? because I really dont care.

You just don't care? I'm glad you cleared that up.

Scowl has some great points tbh.

EDITED! - was too bitchy :p

So flash added zeroql's new account, gda and snake to team metsu on the same day? I'd assume that it has to be either you or him, since you are the only 'clan officers' in the team.

Anyway, saying that metsu is zeroql's team and everyone else (flash, you, ...) doesn't have a say, is simply wrong.

Just how are they not supposed to accept ZeroQL into his own team?

lol.

U really are just being a troll here, i sincerely hope

it's zeroql's team..

no, metsu is a clan founded by the now banned ql account "zeroql". for dsm to be able to play for metsu the only other person able to do so (flash, seeing as juvenile quit) had to invite him back into the team.
you don't think that's... weird?

Wasn't he the team's founder? Am I missing something?

the team was founded by a now banned account, who surely wasn't able to invite anyone recently. what are you missing?

I understand that one of his teammates had to invite him. I still think that's the right thing to do, as he's the clan's founder.

I left metsu right after he got caught, how can i have a say in a team im not even in...

you are in the team:
http://www.quakelive.com/#!clans/summary/1739

For all sense and purpose im not in the clan..

bestspecies - you are one utter sad little fucking nerd (it's kaos btw and i'm sure you can imagine what jaz thinks)

yeah... :D

(I can't reply to Jaz' post, I think it's a response to a dicussion with someone I put on ignore. But tell him that I'm feeling sorry for him.)

Goes to show you really don't care about ql either

Nice attitude from one of the stars players, give me a break

just because i dont give a shit about what zeroql is doing, dosnt mean i dont care about the game.

your the one always with a bad attitude :(

shamefull.

he's a bitter ctf2 nerd, leave him alone. all he has going for him is two trickjumps and the fact that he can swim.

can he swim with the flag though? :P

Really?:p I always disliked ctf2 .

No, we are the ones with the right attitude

why isnt vyoh banned yet?

why?

because he cheats, duh.

since ever or?

i can only remember him from being tierslummed like when i started ql, arrogant too

don't know since when, he is cheating right now though.

pld him last night in ca, wasnt sure but i suspected him

for hacking

Any proofs? I never played with him but he surely has some insane stats, 89% wins. He mostly has been raping newbs afaik, but recently he started beating good players here and there as well.

play him and you'll know! :D

Except for the fact that he - DSM - shares the same initials as ZeroQL's real name, as has been remarked upon, he joined up in Metsu and he's been playing with Bryantt a good few times, a supposed friend of his, and in which he cheated as per what CSI:QL's videos proved... And he's been banned again, supposedly because SyncError could see the IP logins being the same as the ones on the ZeroQL account.

they are talking about a player named vyoh

Haha, right, I missed that totally. My bad. Disregard my reply.

I sent demos to draven and he apparently sent them to 'the csi team' a week ago, which is why i was asking q50 here. Guess I'll have to make an avi myself the next days.

what's his alt account name btw? similarly popular iirc...

no clue

Banned again, he he he. Go fuck yourself you trolling shit twat.

At least be less obvious next time, same goes for you Fragma. Best give it a few more weeks before you subscribe to a pro account again, thats what,at least what 2 weeks job seekers allowance?

Have more +

:D

So...

zrenjanindza, kaide, gda... how many of you didn't know you had a busted cheater playing on your team (ie even on comms) under alias a few days ago? :)

They all know, they just don't care since this community has turned into a spineless bunch of circle jerkers who get their self-esteem from their e-friends so why alienate them

ooor maybe they don't get everything so seriously... just saying

If I was a ql teacher, I would had put half the ppl here to write in a blackboard “ql is a game“ 100 times.

If you do not take bans seriously, in anything not just quake; youre basically telling yourself its ok to fraud now and then

who fucking cares jesus christ get a life

Be careful there. You are treading on thin ice with Q50. Both him and raw are very sensitive regarding their private lives. What with working at co-op and such.

Hi fragma - nice IP address

Actually it's dor. "bettypancake = dark" wow.. you guys are so clever. Jk.

I had already corrected him on IRC. I find it odd you should bring up raw's work place though..

Hah , even worse then!

Angry teenager syndrome.

Like wow i work for the co-op is that like a bad thing? Not sure what relevance it has to anything.

is that like, a mob front bro? you can be honest here, I won't tell, mos def.

I care you pratt, it's ruining quake.

No, it's your ilk's relentless bile-spewing that's ruining quake. Bashing a moviemaker who probably did more for quake than all of you put together.

Are you gonna follow him around now, saving screenshots and making new ESR topics every chance you get? OMG ZEROQL IS PLAYING QL ON PUBS NOOOOOOOO

Troll, Retarded or both?

My expectations were too high for "pillars" of a gaming community. My bad. It appears any random chav will do.

lol why does one have to be a "pillar of community" to be anti-hacks.

The stupidity of it all is amazing. The morale of the story is If you like quakelive, dont fucking cheat in the first place and then you don't have to sneak back because the option is always there to log in whenever you feel like it and just have fun.

People right now should think about this before, not after.

naw naw dawg, no need to be modest like, yall unravelin this criminal enterprize like a boss yo

That's not the morale. :(


He isn't playing in any leagues. Let him have his fun, he isn't interrupting yours.

All of this could be avoided if we didn't have a centralized model.. server owners could just decide for themselves.

Yea like Call of duty on the ps3 where half the servers have people walking through walls and flying in the air! ....thats the way forward.

Your a complete idiot!!! Do you even play Quakelive?

You're*

Yeah all the cheaters are making it a better game to play. Herro hans?

Troll :)

Is that what you do offline when you don't understand too? Put your hands on your ears and start shouting troll?

Troll :)

Troll.

Really poor troll :(

LOL YOU'RE OPINION DIFERES FROM THERES U MUST BE TROL BLUD !!

spot on.

when you don't understand

what is there to understand? youre not giving any arguments, you were simply saying "who fucking cares jesus christ get a life" lol

and about your other comment, "Let him have his fun, he isn't interrupting yours."
thats retarded, this case has so much attention that it serves as an example of how this community handles cheaters. tollerating his comeback will hurt the whole community in the long run. it will effect you and everyone, if you play against him in some way or not

you were simply saying "who fucking cares jesus christ get a life" lol

Because they can't drop it after he's banned already.

Why are my opponents here suggesting that other people shouldn't have the right to decide whether they want to play him or not? Why is your judgement better?

your not giving any arguments

tell me you're british-trolling me. D:

thinking of people who argue with you as "opponents" is ridiculous

youre not giving any arguments
tell me you're british-trolling me. D:

i am not, feel free to point out what i missed

op·po·nent
   [uh-poh-nuhnt]
noun
1.
a person who is on an opposing side in a game, contest, controversy, or the like; adversary.

Feel free to reply to my other point.

You're*

i hate when people get that wrong ;)

:}

Why are my opponents here suggesting that other people shouldn't have the right to decide whether they want to play him or not? Why is your judgement better?

EDIT

pro tip: put people who you think cheat on ignore and next time you see a red nick on a server don't join.

What if they were to play on cups/league games?

Release a frag movie and you're free to play!

then you don't fucking join, duh.

Allow me to hijack this thread for a moment to mark upon the certain atrocious comments people flaunting against the unwillingly mix-ins of this whole Metsu scandal.

So, OK, as some of us have noticed, the account 'DSM' has gotten the ban, alas we have the cheating nuisance off our hands again. And thank goodness for that, if I may add. Trying to sneak around a ban like that just goes to show what methods some people go through to get back. Whether it's to go back to cheating, or go back with a wish to play legit, I don't know. It's anyone's guess really, but honestly I couldn't give less of a crap.

However it also re-acknowledges the fact that the QL team - more specifically SyncError as I would imagine - keeps an eye on ESR for this.

I can't help but shake my head when people say quake is dying because of the cheaters. It's probably different from each individual, more than certainly. Personally I have not felt any urge to quit Quake at all as I have a strong love for it, despite going from owning to losing depending on what team I am on in these various teamgames, or whether I get luckystreaks in the few duels I do.

BUT... What REALLY fucking GETS me is when people start getting sceptic of the people that are currently 'in metsu', without actually committing to it in any other way. Right now I am referring specifically to Juven1le, whom has proven his worth several times over, yet still getting voraciously, however subtly accused by certain people here.

I can not help but wonder what drives you to do this. I thought we established that proof is needed to make certain-beyond-doubt grounds for accusing people of cheating, much like we've seen with CSI:QL - and I dare you to start discussing them with me on this matter as we've seen 'confessions' coming up after the 'busts', proving exactly what everyone with a functional brain (to paraphrase myself) could see - Yet still people mindlessly accuse people of mingling with cheaters just because they are guilded up with them in a clan.

For goodness sake, strenx, v1um and zcn is in Metsu currently too, so what is up with you? Are you going to do another mindless assault on these legit players that help vivify the quake community in all ways they possibly can without ruining their "offline life" ?

Although I share the same opinion as some of you in regards to the person who invited DSM to Metsu, you can't just wander off into the endless explanations that 'Juven1le is the culprit, as he actively denies any connections to Metsu whatsoever, however that may sound to you disbelievers. I haven't seen a single game wherein Juven1le has played with the user DSM, where on the other hand I have seen fl4sh do so. I've seen gda, silencep, zrenjanindza(snake) play with him too. If anything, blame THEM for knowing and not doing shit about it, but don't blame Juven1le. I'm sick and tired of this shit but I will actively defend both him and everyone else that I'm beyond certain have nothing to do with that guy, and I will keep doing so in order to keep the idiocy coming from your mouths (hands? :P) from perplexing this whole matter and converting into an even bigger mess.

I'm going to journal this just to get maximum views on this, hopefully sparking a bit of dialogue that hopefully has more sense than what has been going on up to this point. And yes, I am very sorry for the confusing setup of this whole text.

Moreover, if you're looking for a TL;DR edition of this, you won't get any.

Right now I am referring specifically to Juven1le, whom has proven his worth several times over, yet still getting voraciously, however subtly accused by certain people here

He gets accused of having helped zeroql to get back into the game (by inviting his new account into metsu) and not of having cheated himself (not in this thread). At least that's how I read it. Makes the rest of your text redundant.

He's getting accused of both - However in this section it's only regarding the invites to DSM.

In spite of that it is still a relevant post.

He said that he has no connection to metsu whatsoever -- that's a lie, he still has admin rights in the metsu QL team.

He said that flash (or any other old member of metsu) has nothing to do with zeroql coming back into the team, because it's zeroql's team -- that's a lie, because flash apparently invited zeroql back into the team.

He said that he doesn't care about zeroql trying to get back into QL -- that's his own business, but he will have to accept that not everyone approves of that.

All the other accusations or allusions you criticized are only in your head. ;)

I really, really wish it was true that my other 'accusations/allusions' were only in my head, but take your time and read through some of the recent '<insert name> is busted at cheating' or the likes, you'll find some of what I refer to. (EDIT: And listen in on some chatter on irc, or ingame talk aswell.)

Furthermore, he has no connection to metsu albeit he is still IN metsu on the QL site. It's that simple. I'm not a christian but I am still part of the Evangelical Lutheran National Church, for example. In essence, not bothering to do anything about it does not necessarily imply deceit, rather than lazyness or maybe you simply can't be arsed. I don't see the problem, and honestly I don't see why you do either.

He said that flash or any other old member of metsu has nothing to do with zeroql coming back into the team. You say it's a lie, and as I agree it is untrue, it is something which he probably doesn't know much of anything about really. How many times in your life have you said something in trust of your (former?) mates that ultimately was not true? I bet you have. It does not make you a liar, it simply makes whatever you said, in trust of that friend, untrue.

Calling someone a liar based on their trust - or simply assumption - is rather distasteful.

Then he shouldn't reply here and defend his ex-teammates when
a) he doesn't give a damn
b) he has no connection to his ex-teammates anymore
c) he can't know for sure whether he actually says the truth when he defends them

I'm pretty sure that fl4sh can speak for himself. But he hasn't so far. And juven1le defending him by saying stuff which isn't true -- even though he supposedly doesn't care -- doesn't make it any better for either of them.

Ah, he should not reply when a/b/c criteria is met. I am unsure if only one, two or all three has to be met, but more on that after my primary reply.

See, what I find curious is that you're saying he shouldn't defend his ex-teammates when "he can't know for sure whether he actually says the truth when he defends them".

Does that not work the other way around instead?

You can't accuse someone of foul play if you do not know for sure. You gather evidence and first after that point you can start accusing.

In a courtroom, assuming your friends innocence in whatever matter it may be is a valid explanation unless proven otherwise. This is how things go in a courtroom, and as far as my logic tells me, there is a very good reason why that is. I realize this isn't a courtroom practicing law of justice. It's much worse ofcourse; it's a gaming community.

And to remark upon your points, regarding a: Not giving a damn (about zeroql if I may add) does not imply not giving a damn about the rest of the current/former members that are not him. Not something you should take as lightly as you do. It is hostile in a manner I can't even begin to describe.

Regardig b: He never said he didn't have any connections to his ex-teammates. In fact, he has connections with some of them as he still plays with them. Most recently he's played with V1um and has most definately spoken with zcn as he frequents the team denmark irc channel. So using that as a valid point is just, well, pardon me, bullshit.

Now, your riposte.

just to be clear, metsu is zeroql clan. (...) And again its not mine, fl4sh. s7ry or bab clan. (...)
everyone in metsu knows he is dsm

http://we.are.lostsouls.de/clancrawler.phtml?cid=1739

can you please copy/paste some comments where juven1le is defending zeroql?

he defended his ex-teammates and implied that they couldn't have prevented him from rejoining metsu with his new account.

Just to be clear, metsu is zeroql clan. (...) And again its not mine, fl4sh. s7ry or bab clan.

I never wrote that he defended zeroql.

What part of that quote shows him defending them?

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2167940#pid2167940

In fact, metsu *is* juvenile's and fl4sh's clan. They (and only they!) *do* have the admin rights and it was fl4sh who let zeroql (and gda and snake) into metsu. He defended him by implying that he didn't and that the 'new' metsu players had nothing to do with the 'old' metsu players.

?
That's your own post. I still don't see him defending anyone.

Besides even if juvenile did invite him (he didn't) to the clanaccount on ql.com.... big fucking deal. There is hardly anything with less meaning than ql.com clanaccounts.

When metsu haven't played as a team or in a tournament for months, then it *is* a big deal that fl4sh invited zeroql back into the QL clan 'metsu' and knowingly let him play as team 'metsu' with some other new 'metsu' players who apper to be eager on playing with zeroql.

Juven1le was like "it's zeroql's team, not our team, he played with some new players and not with us, we have nothing to do with this".
Which -- in my book -- means that he defended fl4sh by pretending that he didn't have anything to do with zeroql playing as team 'metsu' again.

I quoted my own post because I had already explained it there. Why do I even have to explain all this? It's obvious.

The key part is playing together as metsu, not being registered in the clan on ql.com. That part is completely irrelevant. You're making it sound as if him not being in the clan would have somehow have had any effect on him playing with those guys or not.

I still see no logic in juvenile apparently defending flash?! Did he pretend that he himself or flash didn't have anything to do with zeroql playing as team 'metsu' again? If it's the first that's correct - he did not have anything to do with it. If it's the latter please quote where he would have said that.

The key part is playing together as metsu

Yes, they played pcws as 'metsu', shortly after 3 of them (including zeroql) were invited into metsu by fl4sh. That's my point.

Did he pretend that (...) flash didn't have anything to do with zeroql playing as team 'metsu' again? (...) please quote where he would have said that.

I've quoted this like 10 times by now:

Just to be clear, metsu is zeroql clan. (...) its not (...) fl4sh (...) clan.

I understand this as: metsu is zeroql's clan, thus nobody can or wants to stop him from playing as metsu. metsu is not fl4sh's clan, thus fl4sh is not responsible for the fact that zeroql plays as 'metsu'.

Which is wrong: fl4sh is responsible, because he invited zeroql's new account into metsu.

If there is another plausbile way to understand the (admittedly clumsy) sentences of Juven1le, I'll gladly discuss it. I just don't see one.

who cares about the name metsu? the problem is not that he is playing in metsu, but that he is playing ql again. and not fl4sh, juven1le nor anyone else can do anything about it.

he's not only playing QL, he's playing pcws. And yes, there is something that can be done about that: Not playing with him in a team.

but denying him access to metsu quakelive.com clan profile doesn't inhibit him from playing pcw's. and juven1le doesn't play with zeroql anymore, even though both of their names are in the clan roster at quakelive.com. and afaik fl4sh doesn't play with him either.

fl4sh played a pcw with some other Italians against the new 'metsu' players (including zeroql) he had just invited into metsu.

I don't know what his motivations are, but that's not exactly how you prevent a cheater from getting back into the community, don't you think?

ok. so where is juven1le defending his ex-teammates?

read the thread.

i did. i even asked you to copy/paste the parts where he did. still can't see any :/

I've quoted this like 10 times by now:

Just to be clear, metsu is zeroql clan. (...) its not (...) fl4sh (...) clan.

I understand this as: metsu is zeroql's clan, thus nobody can or wants to stop him from playing as metsu. metsu is not fl4sh's clan, thus fl4sh is not responsible for the fact that zeroql plays as 'metsu'.

Which is wrong: fl4sh is responsible, because he invited zeroql's new account into metsu.

If there is another plausbile way to understand the (admittedly clumsy) sentences of Juven1le, I'll gladly discuss it. I just don't see one.

I think it would be childish not to let the owner get in his own clan, especially if there is no way to prevent him from creating a new clan. And just because fl4sh had the power to add DSM to the roster doesn't make him the owner of the clan.

He doesn't own the clan. The player which owned the clan is called "Zeroql" and this player is banned from QL. How is he supposed to own a team that exists within a service he isn't even allowed to use?

You are confused because you think that internet is the representation of real world. Let's say I get banned for cheating. After that I create a multigaming organization called "Fraggerzzz" and I recruit a team to play for "Fraggerzzz". Would I or wouldn't I own "Fraggerzzz" even if I didn't have access to the clan page at quakelive.com?

Or maybe a clan can't exist if it doesn't have a page in the internet.

When I'm talking about the 'clan metsu', I'm talking about the clan called 'metsu' on quakelive.com playing the game QL.

Why should anyone consider some hypothetical entity called 'clan metsu' outside of the place where this clan called 'metsu' does actually participate and act?

What about Quake 3 wich didn't have clans built in? The clans didn't exist?

That's irrelevant. Back to topic?

get a life bst (it's jaz now)

Hi Jaz

Does your computer beep when booting up if "cheat" is mentioned on esreality or do you follow things closer than you want to admit? ;)

Incredible considering your the self proclaimed least nerdy person in the universe.

Are you still touring Australia or have you thought of a more exciting story now?

Been clubbing with adam lately?

I only went aus for two months. There's enough vids and pics on my FB if you want to see where in Aus I was and what I was upto. All you had to do was ask. Why you hating anyway? It's not my fault the munter you live with (and off in your case) can't afford to take you anywhere apart from Bingo LOL. Maybe if you save your JSA for a few years, you might be able to go somewhere in your life LOL.

Hitting Manc soon though, and might actually catch adam up.

Hold tight niggs <333333

link to fb profile please

A whole pathetic reply without a single correct piece of information in it, some things never change hey? One thing you do have is a brain and you're a sneaky little bastard with it too but the problem is everyone is aware of this now so it doesn't really work anymore?

Are these facebook pictures of you in australia of the Bodybuilding / MMA fighting you or the real you? Just curious as they're entirely different people after all.

I'm sure Adam really wants to know you too :) the reason I've brought that up a second time on here is because your story about that is a load of shit and he even confirmed this himself. The first time you just totally dodged the topic like your very good at doing ;)

You should keep living in the Jaz fantasy dreamworld, you sound really awesome when you talk about yourself in it.

"Without a single correct piece of information"
LOL.
Do you live with and off some munter? Yes.

Where's the incorrect piece of information then?

"You're a sneaky bastard and now everyone in QL is aware of that, it doesn't work anymore"
Why do you insist I care about what other people think? I've mentioned it numerous times before that I never played this game to make friends. I played the game to win a few matches and have fun with the people I enjoyed playing with (I'm not going to lie - but you were one of them too at a point). It's just a game dude, a dead one at that (CTF).

You're 30 years old? with kids? living off some munter, yet you're on this website bitching like an old woman about a dead game and arguing with a 23 year old lol. Says more about you than it does about me tbh. I don't even play this game lol.

It's a fantasy world to you because you'll never experience it. All you've experienced throughout your life is how to make maps in quake, how to claim JSA so it covers your internet bills to continue to play quake and fail at it. Tbh, I'd even be surprised you have anyone in your sad little life.. What kind of a woman (obvious munter) would support someone who just games 24/7 and spends all his day on a website bitching about cheaters, making CSI groups to catch cheaters and so on.

Anyway, i'm off to the gym to get HENCH HUUUR. Have fun viewing demos to bust cheaters and whatever else it is u do in ur sad day lol

tl;dr

I don't know that much about you, since you probably never say anything which is true, but I do know that your behavior resembles pathological lying and I think you should seek help. ;)

That's an honest advice, by the way.

Very much so!

I see what he's doing. He's trying to offend me with his tripe but its really hard to be offended by a clear pathological liar who you have absolutely zero respect for. Of course he's capable of "playing nice" for short periods but as i have already stated on other threads, i feel he has a whole series of personality disorders that in conjunction with each other make him the way he can be.

It just makes me look bitchy as hell to argue with such a loon and it'd undoubtedly go on forever so i'd best just give it up.

At least he seems to believe everything he says anyway :p

Oh look, another bitter nobody.

i live in manchester and i would gladly smash your head in over internet banter if enough people are interested?

He's a known cheater be my guest!

Lmaoo raw, it's absolutely hillarious how you're insulting people on esreality for being on JSA (something you're team mate q50's also on). When you're one to talk aren't you? Working at tesco where you're pretty much earning minimum wage (£6.50 is it?) LOL. I'm not going to lie, but you must be one utter dumbass and retarded (which was quite evident from some of the posts you've posted on here already) to be working at Tesco. Apologies if you're 15/16 years old though - then I'll take all the Tesco criticism back because I guess at that age it's a decent job while you're at school or somet. On a level though, surely that's a sign to quit gaming or take a break to sort your life out (by getting a better job, no?).

Why do all these other jokers have to get involved. It's funny how none of you shitters ever said anything when I gave a shit about this game. Sending me friend requests on ql etc, and now you're being cyber warriors and asking for a fight. Lets not get too ahead of ourselves shall we!

again, link to facebook profile please i need to catch up on stalking.

I'd rather work at Tesco than look retarded on ESR and cheat at Quake. I thought it was co-op anyway? Who cares.

Hello, I was a recruiter for a recruitment consultancy for just over 2 years (i switched sectors and was working for a Canadian engineering & design company for an oil & gas project before that) until i quit my job to pursue a uni degree so i start uni in my early 20's) and I saw your long reply and would like to make the following adjustments:

1) The UK Minimum wage is £5.80/h (£5.93/h for businesses and local authorities which are within the Boroughs of City Of London/Hammersmith/RBKC(Kensington & Chelsea)/Westminster/tower Hamlets and Southwark)

2) Regardless of what you percieve as shameful in people's employment situations. One can, by simply by keeping a large friends list and even by personal experience can come across a thousand stories: From a PhD in between jobs going on JSA, to a senior manager within the local authorities taking an admin job just for the salary, to senior document controller taking a retail or even a manual labour job and declinging to go to interviews in order to pay the bills. Needless to say, before i left, most of the people in question actually got the fuck out of their temporary jobs (if you spent enough time to pass your bachelor's, master's and PhD studentship+ professional research experience/ or have extensive experience in the local authority hierarchy structure then you won't be stuck in a shitty job for long and it was just a temporary solution) and got the sort of positions they deserved... and the people who didn't yet, kept contacting and trying to get what they deserve, no idea which part would define someone as "retarded"

3) I've been on QL since sept 2008 and never ever sucked up to you or invited you to my friends' list c:

4) I would like to congratulate on your success to fuck up my long-term project to no longer make UK player look like retarded pissed-up chavs. This one post undid about a year.

5) Parts 1+2, despite making a coherent argument, should be ignored, since I forgot that I wasn't speaking to a normally functioning individual in this quake quasi-society, but an already-caught cheater. The same inane brain wavelengths that caused you to cheat in an online game are the ones that make you spew stupid shit in the very same quasi-society. You are not alone in your ordeal of being the moron in group which looked down on you. Just wikipedia "Rosemary Kennedy" c:

I saw your reply jamerio and thought I would make a few adjustments. But I can't be bothered. Your sentence structure and english is pretty poor for someone seemingly high in the food chain.

"04:11 BST" :>

Also, students (even "mature students") aren't very high in the food chain, regardless if their personality. c:

Tesco, minimum wage and 15, lol! You made me smile with that bit of bullshit.

Initially i was so confused by your twaddle i didn't think it really warranted a direct reply. Where do i start? Seriously.

As for me having never lived blah blah and just play quake and thats my life? lol. I've always enjoyed myself a lot outside quake but i do feel quakelive is fun which is why i play it? duh!. I feel that I don't have to make up stories about going to the gym, knowing MMA fighters, being a hardman etc like yourself. I do feel that you'd be really surprised if you had any idea of the sort of things i've done in my life outside the "omgomg_quake" but i prefer to keep things private.

I'm looking at some pictures i was sent from your facebook a year or so ago and also at the random bodybuilder picture you claimed was you to the virus guys, and then a year later to the infused guys. I'm wondering how low your self confidence must be to say something like that and then stick to such a story, and pressumably think that as a result people will think more of you. It seems you have now "evolved" to inventing entire lives for me and raw etc, or basically anyone who disagrees with you? lol.

Why would I be on JSA? I'm not going to start "dissing" JSA at a time when so many people are losing their jobs but i've not been on JSA since i was about 18 (nearly 50 years ago etc :) ).

Why the bizarre story telling about raw now too? to my knowledge raw has a good job and good on him. Having said that, what the hell is wrong with a normal job at tescos exactly? how far are you from reality?

Why are you making up entire "lives" for people that bear no resemblence to reality? :) are you really that screwed in the head?

Finally, why would they want to add you to their friends list? I'd have been added as i used to play with you but i doubt the others could possibly care less..... everything you come out with just seems so so bizarre.

I'm sure i've missed off so much but it feels so stupid replying to you.

I never said it's shameful to be working at Tesco or Co-op (same thing, just the latter is even worse if true LOL). I just found it amusing that he was insulting someone on here (Fragma i think - not sure) for being on JSA when he only works at Tesco/Co-op. I mean, you probs earn like 20p more than someone on JSA anyway.

Whats funny is Fragma knows what i actually do for a living and he even knows its not stacking shelves in a food shop, so you're either too stupid to care or totally oblivious to the fact he twisted the initial conversation so far out of the truth just to try and get a rise out of me, which quite frankly won't happen.

Either way, you regurgitating the same crap is really not going to make a blind bit of difference to how i sleep at night and i'm certainly not the one living in fantasy land so you might want to look a little closer to home before you start analysing other peoples lives you nut job.

at your current age of 45 we're looking at 27 years ago

10 rockets with your name on them! :)

1v1 t4, lets do it.. no fear :o)

Oh yes T4...the amazing map they destroyed :(((

A teleporter on T4? oh, really?!!? seriously?!?! you can't be serious?!? lets remove RA too off the ledge, yea, great plan!

But actually i meant while i'm on your team! right in the face when you least expect it! :)

:)))))))))))))))))))

Judgement by vedic :::DD was just thinking that you must be the german vedic

Ok, I see where your confusion comes from. The sentence "And again its not mine, fl4sh. s7ry or bab clan." means that metsu is zeroql's clan and not the clan of any of the mentioned persons. It does not mean that fl4sh didn't invite zeroql to the clan on ql.com.

No, it *is* the clan of fl4sh and juvenile. They are the players with admin rights. It can't be zeroql's clan because zeroql is banned from QL, remember?

By that same logic your name is M, because it reads on your ESR profile.

Uhm, no, not at all. Your concept of 'logic' is funny, though.

Wadap M? Any Bond movies in the making?

If ZeroQL founded the clan, it's his clan whether he makes another account or not.

ZeRoQL is the handle of a person named Djordje Simanovic M.; not a separate entity that exists only in QL clan pages.

How is he supposed to own a team that exists within a service he isn't even allowed to use?

Because it's his team.

Br4zil is the founder of team metsu.

How is ZeroQL supposed to own a team that wasn't founded by him and exists within a service that he isn't allowed to use?

The service is irrelevant to the group.

Anyway you are arguing about some ridiculous point that has nothing to do with anything except if you are right or not, so sure, I'm totally wrong and juvenile and fl4sh are just super condoning cheating and everything else you have been regurgitating again and again is super true.

I'm wrong, you're right.

Edit: the point you are making clearly indicates you can't read though, since my first reply was the condition if.

So what's your point?

Are you trying to say that it's fine of fl4sh to let zeroql back into metsu for the purpose of playing some pcws?
And is it fine that juven1le defends fl4sh by arguing that metsu is zeroql's clan even though it obviously isn't?

All I'm doing here is stating that I'm not fine with this. I really dunno why I'm having to defend my opinion.

I don't know, you just don't seem to get it.

I blame your reading skills. But hey, that's just me.

In this whole discussion you haven't made a single valid point.

At first, you made a point that was preceded by a false if-statement and after being made aware of this, you resorted to useless sarcasm.

Now that I've even given you some questions which would have easily allowed to elaborate on your opinion and how it differs from mine, you decided to not even try to make a point anymore.

Good job, sir!

metsu is metsu, a group

if brazil founded it but then relinquished ownership to ZeRoQL, it doesn't matter that brazil founded it or ZeRoQL if the consensus is it was his at the time of his banning.

I don't even know if br4z1l ever owned or operated or indeed founded metsu besides creating the clan in QL clan registration, where I presume he immediately gave ownership to ZeRoQL since I follow TDM and have never seen him playing for metsu (I could be wrong on this right here, did he play for metsu?).

There is my point, I hope you get it; metsu does not solely exist in QL clan registration web page. It's a group independent of QL that plays QL.
It's ZeRoQL's team, if I'm not mistaken, no matter who's banned on the QL website or who invited whom.

Edit: metsu created by ZeRoQL on ESL website

metsu is metsu, a group

But this discussion is about the team metsu at quakelive.com, because this is the only place where this team has shown some activity in the past 3-4 months.

if brazil founded it but then relinquished ownership to ZeRoQL, it doesn't matter that brazil founded it or ZeRoQL if the consensus is it was his at the time of his banning.

Of course it does matter. ZeroQL was granted admin rights of team metsu at QL.com, but he was then banned from QL.com and thus lost all control over the team and lost his right to play with the team.

Do you want me to ask idsoftware for their comment on this case or do you realize by yourself that it does matter that he isn't allowed to play at quakelive.com anymore?

There is my point, I hope you get it; metsu does not solely exist in QL clan registration web page. It's a group independent of QL that plays QL.

This could be worth discussing, if team metsu had actually played QL in the meantime. But as a matter of fact, the team was dead for the last months.

It's only after inviting a player who isn't even allowed to play Quakelive (!) back into the team, that metsu (a team which "plays QL") has indeed started to play QL again.

And how exactly is a team which uses a service (i.e. QL) independent of this very service? This doesn't make any sense.

It's ZeRoQL's team, if I'm not mistaken, no matter who's banned on the QL website or who invited whom.

No, it's not his team. He was granted admin rights, but he lost them when he was prohibited from using the services offered at quakelive.com.

Edit: metsu created by ZeRoQL on ESL website

So what? Metsu was created by an esl-account associated with the quakelive-user-account called "zeroql" who isn't allowed to use quakelive anymore.

Why should anyone assist him at getting to use a service again which he isn't allowed to use?

I really don't want to read that wall since I'm sure it's just something about metsu being on QL page and QL this and QL that and ban and fl4sh and juven1le are condoning cheating.

Talking about being able to read ...

It's only 100 words longer than your last post, so don't try to argue when you can't handle your points being disproved by a mere 1-2 sentences each.

Then I'll just leave you with your concept of what "independence" means:

It's a group independent of QL that plays QL.

Oh, and:

I don't want him to play again for at least half a year

Do you seriously think I want him playing again? If so I'm sorry but you are mistaken.

Please look up what independent means, it doesn't mean metsu has nothing to do with QL only that they're not dependent on it's authority. If you are going to argue that since QL bans ZeRoQL it IS their authority and therefore metsu is not independent of QL I'll tell you my point right here;

They exist outside of QL, so QL banning their leader has no effect other than that the owner of metsu can't play QL. It doesn't transfer ownership or bring metsu solely into the confines of QL.com.

He's banned, I don't want him to play this game. I don't believe in indefinite bannings either.

It's his team, I don't know what went on between him and fl4sh and juven1le, but obviously they don't care about this guy and couldn't be arsed with holding a stand against him by not letting him back in.

This is nothing but a trivial discussion about irrelevant things.

Easiest to check using clancrawler.net:

http://we.are.lostsouls.de/clancrawler.phtml?cid=1739

DSM was invited by fl4sh_, not Juven1le.

wow that website is awesome

lol hehe, nice find that site.

So we can basically say flash endorses cheating

How on earth would you be able to make that claim?

What if he holds the opinion that as soon as ZeRoQL purchased another Pro account he would be allowed to try again legitimately?

If that were his view (which I don't know, neither do you) he still wouldn't be supporting cheating in QL.

Supporting cheating versus supporting a convicted cheater when trying to come back (while thinking that id might not prevent him from doing it). Where's the difference, really?

Look at you talking about people being convicted of cheating in a game.

You really feel like you are judge, jury and executioner.

While id does very little against cheaters they do actually ban newly made accounts which have a cheaters signature all over them.

Yes, and that's good. I just don't see how so much smoke can come from something so minor as who invited a cheater into a clan. The thing to note in all of this is that he is a cheater and should be banned, people should not be trying to read into other people's intentions or motives and try to have someone on the cross for it.

Flash also knows what i've stated above.

Hence the only possible explanation for why he did it is because he foolishly hoped noone would even notice.

And by implication therefore did not mind the cheating

You keep coming to conclusions that I simply cannot accept just because you say them.

As do you

tl;dr

People mainly just want to know who invited DSM back into metsu.

Was it Juve or was it fl4sh ?

Its one or the other afaik.

Whichever way you look at it..Metsu don't look very clever on this one at all tbh :(

If you ignore the bully long enough, the bully won't bother.

Sure, the name of Metsu has been tainted by the presence of zeroql, in that he cheated and was busted for it, but why should anyone, more specifically those that don't share the same opinion that the name is tainted etc., currently in metsu (hence: those who do not care about zeroql anymore, or those who do not have anything to do with inviting him, which we can pretty much be sure of is fl4sh) be bothered with leaving the clan on the quakelive site anyway? In my opinion they shouldn't be bothered at all and if they want to stay and keep the metsu clantag for later use/abuse I couldn't care less either, as long as they didn't invite the culprit back in or support in any way what he did.

I just dont care if some1 is going around in pcws or in pub server to play with wallhacks, aimbots and so on ...
i am just really pissed when someone do that during official cw or tournaments ... and you know why?
Because it is really a lack of respect for all those people that invest even just few hours to prepare for a tournament at the best they can ... even if only 1 person cheats during a tournament he is ruining all the efforts that other teams are making to play this game ...
if only one person is cheating we (legit people) are wasting our time ... and this is more even a lack of respect when someone is cheating in an online tournament where people just play for glory and fun ...
people gets mad towards cheaters because this game is very different from others games ... people puts lot of efforts and passion (some years ago even more than now) in it. It is not just a stupid online game that you can master in 1 month of training or that u can master after nerding for months. It is the closest game to a real sport and like a sport not everyone is bound to become good at it and you have to deal with that. In football not everyone plays in champions league!
if all teams start to quit because they notice that this game is not clean anymore than we will have no more tournaments and cups ... no more tournaments = no more community = only pub games = game is dead in few months ...

so for all people out there that actually cheats ... please stop that and start to enjoy this game for what it is ...
get respect for your efforts and not with easy and quick ways ...

If you have to cheat in an online game full of kids just to become good and respected i dont know what you are ready to do in real life to get respect or become important within friends or at work :(

I just dont care if some1 is going around in pcws or in pub server to play with wallhacks, aimbots and so on ...

So you don't care if someone is ruining the game, unless they are playing for a reward? What happened to 'fun' being a reward?

since when do you care about fun

Since always.

People cheating in any type of game should be treated the same, pubs, pcw's or officials it shouldn't matter.

Ok maybe the right words are "i care less" because u can always change server or refuse the pcw ...
i agree with you that in a perfect world cheating must not exists even in pub games ...

i really like when people find an aimbotter in some ca server and they mass quit the server or go spectator mode leaving the worm playing alone ...
but what can u do during an official cw? That is the point ...

It's not exactly ruining the game if nobody even suspects you are using it, and as for cheating in PCW's, I never did, not even against ek!
And also, if he is back without the cheats, I dont see why you have to make it the first thing on your daily schedule to get him banned again, if there was an anti-cheat, none of this would be happening anyways

You're the one who made the journal about him...

So? if we're not allowed to play he shouldnt be either

You're right and I already agreed with you on that earlier.

I'm just pointing out that you imply it was everyone else who went out their way to find him and have him banned, when it was you who pointed him out.

oh, made a mistake, my bad. But even if i didnt point it out, they would have figured it out eventually, and as i said, made it the first thing in their schedule

If you were on the other side of the fence, you would support the banning and re-banning of cheaters.

sure i would, but considering how many there are in tdmpickup alone, then there would be nobody left to play with except your ek friends, and maybe they arent all 100% legit!

Oh no you finally figured out i hacked my way to 31 percent mg!

because MG accuracy really has something to do with it

it was 100 percent sarcasm.. i really couldnt even begin to imagine who you meant, if anyone, that wasnt legit in ek.

i dont know, why dont you check em out?

I have no need or reason to doubt anyone playing tdm in ek.

ok, and your mates from lemmings effect?

Why would i doubt the guys in Lemmings?

why would you doubt anyone? i mean nobody would have ever thought i cheated

Appart from the fact one day you were average and the next you had a 6th sense with walls and what was beyond them?

Seriously, if you honestly doubt someone in ek, lemmings or anyone else either speak up and find proof or give it a rest.

heh, now you are suspecting us of cheating? you're far crazier than i thought. with you using hacks in the past (against us), shouldn't you ...know better?

its chubz, he's got this stand still to rail hack that makes him hit 100 percent rails when not moving :-D

hard skill tho ... i mean i have something like almost 4k games under my belt and shit hell a lot of CA so my aim since q3 days was rail centered ... and now since i got as low as 40 ping my shaft actually improved, with rail getting screwed.

what's even worse you can't play a game these days without thinking someone is cheating or getting accused for something obvious!

never used hacks in any PCW, except against the french guys, and i have my reasons, wolfcam sees alot of things as you should know

pardon me asking, but which french guys? i have never played around with wolfcam, so no, not entirely sure what you mean by that.

Accidental plus... clicked page without looking! :D

You support cheaters! :-))))))))

Busted! :(

you shouldn't have said ek nor lemmings, now they forgot you were talking about 30% of ppl who play tdmpickup and their ego makes them think you call them hackers when you were just pointing out that there's no one 100% clean :(

Lets forget that 2v2 you had against Q50 and Kronic then?

not exactly a pcw

Well it was a 2v2 versus ek but i guess its ok in your eyes?

Arrrrrgggh

It was a 2 vs 2 fun game in the early hours of the damn morning. Its also one that i thought absolutely nothing of until i saw the esreality video and wolfcammed my earlier game to see if it dug anything up. I never doubted either of you guys as i trusted and liked both of you. Infact, around that time the EK guys were very keen to play TDM vs evio as a preference for a "guaranteed" clean game which seems quite ironic now.

Thats what makes it so grim...because i never ever suspected a single thing until i checked it back just out of curiousity when i heard fragma "may" be dodgy and was then quite surprised! to say the least.

The problem which ex-hackers and idiots (KG) don't seem to understand is the mass hysteria it has caused now with recent busts and still that feeling there are plenty more to come.

If for example Deus does a great rail on you, you think "nice shot" but if somebody who hasn't been around for long does the same thing you just can't help but think "oh yea...ok..sure".

Everyone is so suspicious right now and that really sucks.

only 1 homeboy on my cheat-adar ...reward for whoever makes the post!

Doubt is good. Anyone could be cheating.

Then again, so is the realization that if I can't tell that my opponent is cheating from when I'm playing him, it does not matter.

It's not exactly ruining the game if nobody even suspects you are using it

sure, lol.

How does the game get spoiled for the other players if he does not suspect his opponent of cheating?

that's neither what he said, nor what he meant? he's talking about himself and his own cheats which are "not ruining the game if nobody suspects he is using them".

I'm talking about any cheaters in general, if he isn't suspected of cheating, hes not exactly causing any harm even if he is cheating... sure its lame but its true

no, it's not true. you are cheating no matter if someone suspects you or not, claiming cheating is only cheating when observed is insane.

you are essentially fucking someone over who may or may not realize what you are doing, but that doesn't change the "fucking someone over" part.

do you really think stuff doesn't happen unless observed by a human being? :p

Humour me and explain like you would to a 5-year-old. How does a person get fucked if they never find out their opponent was cheating?

What you wrote now is totaly different from what he said earlier :D
You said: if he never finds out.
He said: If he doesnt suspect meaning at that time. Every cheater eventualy busts out therefore you did even more damage cause you cant go back in time. And zealot was right saying his talking about himself that s the whole purpose why he s trying over this so this is even more true.

Cheers.

If he does not suspect is a bit harder to argue than if he never finds out.. but I'd like an answer to at least one.

Actually a 5yr old should be able to understand that things happen even if they are not observed. Like when a 5yr old steals a cookie he usually feels guilty even though no one observed this early childhood criminal act.

I'm sorry but It seems that you are a retarded 5yr old.

If it's so simple, you should be able to explain easily. But no, you hide behind "obviousness".

They get fucked at the moment when the cheating occurs because it changes the result of the game in a forbidden way.

It doesn't necessarily change the result. And if it does, what's the difference between playing a better player and a cheater (when you aren't aware of the fact)?

try again

Disappointed to see zealot plussed this.

It's not exactly ruining the game if nobody even suspects you are using it

of course it is. it doesn't require suspicion for you to have a completely unfair advantage.

all this bs can be avoided if there was a proper working anti cheat for this game.

seriously there is a mass amount of bs here, and its so fucking unnecessary its not even funny :/

anti cheat REALLY is the no.1 priority by now it seems considering the paranoia we all have these days, and considering how easy it is to start cheating.

Lol cause anticheat stops cheaters......... it takes about 15 minutes to bypass anticheat updates.

People steady cheat whenever they want no mater what anticheat program you use. The better the anticheat the more people will race to bypass it.

Lots of people run hacks.... way more than people admit.

so you are saying cheat programmers program their cheats (that stay ahead of the new anti cheat, when their old hack has been blacklisted) in 15 mins? and they release it to the public so all cheaters can start cheating again in 30 mins after anti cheat updates?

zeroql, forever alone :(

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2...66c585.jpg

Not that I mind condemning those who played with him this time around, but where were the same angry people when Cooller played with Yuka? ;)

How dare you!

Cooller is only little though, we can't pick on him

http://www.esreality.com/files/inlineimages/2...oller.jpeg

as long as he:
- is not allowed to any leagues and cups
- doesn't cheat again
i don't really care. of course i wouldn't want to be in same team as him, but playing pcw against dsm/zeroql? why not