Invisibility as second powerup :o

:o

Does anyone know this guy?

Here is 1 of the duel maps he wrote about (i guess) http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2000185#pid2000185

He seems like a talented map maker to me :)

If you made duel maps for quake then you have played it and should be familiar with some of more dominant tdm maps in it.
Aside from that any good feedback you'd expect is out of question by not defining anything except that it's a tdm map.

here goes nothing if your post is for real:
For instance most good tdm maps have all of the above in one way or the other.
Consider dm7 which has a few nice long square open spaces for some good rocket control and some 90 degrees corridors with strategic choke points. Also the same can be found in deep inside (feels dirty when you write it fully named) or ospdm5 with just one power up but has corridors on the lower level and open spaces upwards.
A lot can change in a map during development but what I'd like to see is a more item heavy map. Usually there is a stack limit with tactics that end up in stack one guy for powerup and own aimwise and cess and ffa the rest of the team. It would be revitalising if you had the resources to stack and understack two guys in each team. That would bring the dynamic all together to another level.
Powerup runner should be more careful and have more difficulty reaching bigger scores if he runs into two understacked opponents, also that would be balanced with the other upperstacked opponent having easy kills on not at all stacked guys from loosing team and so on.

TDM has always been a little to spartan for my taste and this isn't SPARTA, this is QUAKE.
Thta's just an thought, not a smart one at that :)

dont add a chaingun

This x1000

what about nailgun?

completely useless

put it in tdm maps instead of shotgun then!

what ql needs is a new map in the vein of osp5 and dm14. we've had new good maps but we need one that is slightly more tactical and preferrably double pu. im working on a double-pu map with some dudes now. something around the lines of what chubz said actually. its gonna be in an alpha-test stage soon hopefully and can show it to some players for ideas.

anyway, here's some thoughts about tdm maps:

dont make them too open, but fighting areas should not be cramped so you have room to dodge and maneuver. take realm of steel rats for an example how NOT to do it. main fighting area is lg/ra and its constantly cessed down by mg from every single direction. you can clear out red and all the enemies spawn in a way that they can directly shoot you again, basicly making the whole attack pointless. really bad design for today's QL

take advantage of the new movement mechanics so people with good movement can stand out more

holding control at 1 area completely is boring as hell to me, osp5 for example is excellent because you have to dive down to get the mega and put yourself at risk if you attack red. holding control on osp5 is about so much more than just camping quad bridge. working as pairs to attack red/get mega etc, great great map. its also the 'hardest' map to a newb imo.

dm14 on the other hand can be really really dull, controlling team camps red for 2 minutes and times rail between powerups. that imo is the wrong way to go.

the typical flow of a tdm map is that 1 team is holding a key area and the other team has a weaker area and trying to get back in control of the stronger area. however this 'rule' has been broken tbh. purgatory is all about fighting with your team, timing and positioning yourself correctly, instead of just holding areas.

what i'd really love to see is a mix of purgatory, dm20 and osp5 with added double powerup. strong locations to hold but just camping them wont give you the win, focus on fighting/sticking with your team and proper teamplay/communication required. attacking quad 'randomly' for example will not get you anywhere in osp5, you need good teamwork to actually take the quad if the enemy is controlling it. same goes for dm20 to a lesser degree since it doesnt have jumppads to camp, but still an organized team defending it is really hard to break. dm6 quad area is just a big no no

edit; dm20 = hiddenfortress, osp5 = deep inside, cpm4 = realm of steel rats

church map areas only, no corridors everywhere

alltimes flying powerup

remake cpm27 for quakelive $$$

cpm21

that too $$$

27!

(not that i think it would work in ql, just saying it cause its you :p)

Cpm 21 :D

nooooo

another tdm map, from the purgatory creators yellack and akuma from 2k, that i hope will be included:
Limbus

This time we've focused on much more vertical gameplay and a more complex layout.

http://web.bethere.co.uk/hosted/

I wanna try this map... Can I download it somewhere please ?

No sorry, but we're hopeful we can get it into QL eventually :)

lava + button

button should be shootable too

alltimes lava death

Armour should be in safer positions in holdable areas. 1 Red one side of the map and two yellows the other side. Additionally shards and green armour should be in more contestable positions in neutral areas. The two yellows need to be split perhaps by level but not overly apart, it should be a valid tactic to be able to hold both e.g. dm14.

Weapons should be in vulnerable open positions.

Ammo should also be in open positions.

Health should be on the edge of defensive areas and mega health in a neutral contestable position.

Powerups should be on the edge of the map in holdable areas but with at least 3 entrances. These areas should not have much in and should be entered by multiple heights. You want to see powerup runs and putting a powerup in the middle of the map usually kills it instantly e.g. dm6

I would like to see a map that does not have two shotguns.

I would also like to see a map that includes a minor powerup like haste in addition to a major powerup like quad.

If you think rail is dominating your map then dont add ammo boxes for it.

having two shotguns on a tdm map is perfectly fine for the low tier weapon that its supposed to be (and will be)

How nerfed have the whiners made it?

Not so bad

Why is it supposed to be a low tier weapon? I thought it was supposed to be a powerful short distance weapon..? So i hope the only change made to sg is a wider spread..

depends on the game mode, its supposed to be a low tier weapon in TDM but a strong short range gun in duel

why not make rl a low tier weapon in tdm?

Because rl takes skill to use effectively and sg doesnt

but imagine the skill you'd have to have if it dealt say 60 dmg? I say 60 dmg close range and 150 long range would be optimal.

its quite common to read that armor is weak in ql, so why make strict rules about having the typical 1 red + 2 yellows? just having slightly more armor would be a small artificial fix to armor being weak

like i said green armour and shards. Just basically have safe zones for major armour pickups and make it equal across the map split. Then over contested zones you have additional green armour and shards.

i also think mappers could be a bit more experimental here
dont get why there are so many unwritten rules

lets look at duel here:

phrantic with no mega: never been in ql competitive mappool
t9 with no red: thrown out of the mappool after a year

what does duel have to do with it?

i also think mappers could be a bit more experimental here
dont get why there are so many unwritten rules

so you meant tdm mapping alone?

yes, that whats this is about

Phrantic is in the US ESL and it's actually pretty cool.
T9 was fine with 3 YA's

as someone said (hoony I think?) have more than the normal 3 armours you get in tdm maps, same number of armours as a duel map but x4 the players?? i'd like to see a map with 1ra, 2ya and 2ga, 2 separate spawns for lower tiered weapons and 2pu's!

working on it :)

wouldnt even mind 2ra 1ya if it its the map

also 2 ra like really close to eachother like 1mm apart so you have to pick them up REALLY slowly like otherwise you pick both.

i imagine 2 ras result in either a campfest or it becomes extremely hard to get controll back(depending on if they are positioned in close proximity or on opposing sides of the map).

thats why i didnt say 2ra =) 1 powerfull armour, 2 decent ones then 2 just to help a little bit. too much to control all of, but still main areas to get such as 1 ra and the staggered PU (aka 14)

nukm said 2 ra they're referring to that.

As I've said 1 ra and battle over controlling it is too spartan for me.

You can have two satckedplayers eating each other up and 1 ya 2 greens which can cause a few more players to get some stack so they can oppose a stacked opponent without having omg wtf 300% lg , 70% rail skills :)

What about more YAs? One which can be easily taken while controlling RA and another two somewhere else on the map.

Nice news, your 1v1 maps are really great !

able to try your 1v1 maps somewhere? :o

map with no rail gun just to see what its like...if it doesnt play well you could always replace 1 weapon with a rail later

if your talking tdm... cpm4 aka realm of steel rats (I've not played it in ql yet so hope they haven't ruined it and added rg)

name sounds familiar but the map i think it is has a rail :o

no, never had a rail. not in q3, not in ql.

ok i know it now...i was thinking intervention

you're a fuckin' dird

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2000185#pid2000185

Thanks for all the responses everyone. I've got a lot to think about now... probably too much, lol.

I want to make one with a trap, but maybe something not so deadly.

In RA2 there was a small arena where if you shoot a button it changes the layout of the map. I was thinking that could be fun to have in a room, no idea what I would do yet, but if I can't make it simple and effective I won't bother.

As for powerups, how about invul? I don't know if it would be too annoying or not, but I kind of like the idea that it not very useful to the up team because they already have control. But to the down team it could be very useful to use it at MH or RA before quad spawns, allowing the down team to lessen the armour/hp of the up team. So that could go in the down area aswell. Saying that I have no experience with the invul so no idea if it would be too powerful for the up team to have. I guess it could also be used to stand at quad just before it spawns, and activate it, denying the quad to the other team. Smells a little lame to me, but I want to try new things.

The layout of the map I think it'd be cool to make it like Grim Dungeons but with a tech feel (want to do a tron look xD), but not so easy to camp / lock down.

I've designed and blocked out a couple of maps already but I'm not happy with them.

I'm going to keep designing stuff on paper etc, until I come up with something that feels good. On the upside I made a 2v2 map which is based on the edge. I Just made it because I wanted to... but I think it turned out nice. Heres some shots:
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/4668/shot0617.jpg
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7743/shot0616.jpg
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2259/shot0615.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9710/shot0614.jpg
http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/8499/shot0613.jpg
Don't know why I'm even mentioning it, except it just felt nice to me and want to know peoples opinions on that kind of map. I tried to fix the balance issues with the original edge. But obviously it has a fair way to go. (all those crates are for jump testing btw)

Anyway in the meantime (while I'm trying to come up with a good TDM layout), I am going to try and make delirium into a CTF map. It shouldn't be too hard and I've been thinking about it for a long time. It should play a little bit like spider crossings (I already made the map tbh, just got to tidy it up and add coloured textures).

Btw, sorry should have included links in my op for my duel maps, I've put them in now.

Delirium: http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=1973510
Bst2 (working name): http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2000185

Cheers again.

The layout of the 2v2 map look's quite refreshing.

Thanks. I'll post it up after I get a chance to tweak the jumps some more.