I would also like know ^

Looking for a new keyboard, espec one with usb hub built in.

ss 7g

personal preference

you don't buy mechanical keyboards only for gaming. In that regard even rubber dome is better because you are already comfortable with them

red: very difficult to find and very expensive. Also they require such a low force to input the keys that you'll find yourself mistyping a lot.

blue: the "click" can become an annoyance, especially when playing games like stepmania or others that require pressing the same keys fast.


and now switches in which i have some experience lol


black: they require an stupid amount of force to actuate. You'll end hating them.

brown: it works but isn't much of an improvement. I'd say rubber dome is better or equal for quake.


nowadays a common publicity stunt is nkro.
Don't buy a keyboard only based in that because it really doesn't make a difference in quake. We are all very used to not being able to press all the keys at the same time that it won't benefit you at all, and our configs are based on that as well for example using modifiers for some functions (ctrl, shift, etc).


edit: h8m3 is right. Keyboards are all about personal preference, as long as they work.

What the bloody hell are you chaffing on about?

1. No rubber dome are not better because you're used to them. I went from being 'comfortable' on a rubber dome to a mechanical and immediately saw an improvement in comfort

2. They're not difficult to find anymore, and they're not that expensive now that 'gaming' companies are putting out re-branded Cherrys etc

3. They don't require a low force to input the key and I never find myself mistyping. You can lightly press them or rage smash them down and they'll still do the same thing

4. If the sound really annoys you that much, don't buy blue switches then. Saying that, you even say you don't have experience with it :|

5. Black's require no force to use them. I'm typing on black switches right now and I can lightly press down not even the full keycap and it'll register. I can also hit them all the way down till they bottom out and it'll register without mistypes.

6. If you can't see the improvement to a mechanical switch to a rubber dome, then what the feck are you doing with these keyboards?! Rubber dome switches are unresponsive, spongy and yuck. Mechanical switches are precise, comfortable and epic.


In Quake the keyboard may not make too much of a difference, but I find defrag style strafe jumping much easier with a mechanical keyboard due to the precise nature of it. For other games where you need to cancel movement, a mechanical board for me is a must. As soon as I go back to an old rubber dome switch keyboard, I hate it. I notice the delay and horrible spongy feel immediately and can't wait to get back on a mechanical.

How do mechanical keyboards handle against repeated coffee spills?

Never spilt anything on my keyboard so wouldn't know. I spill drinks on my desk from time to time but they never made it into the keyboard. Saying that, every so often I sometimes pop the keys out and give it a dust since hair and crumbs can make it around the key switches. Doesn't effect it at all though.

for gaming.

you are confusing red cherries with all the other ones. Well unless you can give at least 10 links to brand new cherry red keyboards available in the us since you say they are not difficult to find.
Also again you are confused in point 3. Reds are 30g (the recipe for mistyping), blacks are aprox. 60+.

about black cherries: that's my opinion and the opinion of 99.9999% of people in geekhack.

again, for gaming.
There are reasons why no pro uses cherry switches if they are not sponsored, and that's why they have been popular lately around here and other places only because a pro starcraft player started using a filco keyboard. They are expensive and they don't give a decent plus for your game so they are just not worth it even if you were to make money out of it. Well again you can prove me wrong if you were to give 10 examples of pro players that use mech keyboards financed by themselves besides fruit dealer because I already used that example.

Why would any pro-gaming finance themselves for mechanical keyboards when they can get them from sponsors?

Of the top of my head though, the whole Na'Vi team bought mechanical 7G keyboards. Not sponsored or anything. I'm sure there's plenty more

what you are saying is simply not true: toxic for example used a keytronic back when he started with q3. that was nothing but a pretty awesome rebranded cherry board.

i love black cherry's for gaming and i'm sure there are valid reasons for choosing cherry switches in gaming keyboards. your mileage may vary of course, your comment on nkro is telling a lot though.

no, of course it does not matter that i can not switch to rail while using +forward and +moveright... nhow could it possibly matter, lol :d

actually nkro doesn't matter as much as you may think.
It won't make you get one more frag or miss a jump, and most importantly remember you are so used to it that when you finally have it you don't put it to good use since you have already dealt with it by using modifiers or by knowing which combos get you stuck.

I could go to lots of pro cases, for example every single one before a couple of years ago and recently rapha with his ms 4000, but in the end even cooller said pros use those keyboards only to comply with their marketing contracts; for general gaming it's just a publicity stunt. Cooller.

what are you talking about, seriously?

yes, i memorized the combos that do not work: that doesn't stop me from being affected from not having nkro. i would instantly switch to rail if i could instead of having to let go of a specific key beforehand.

i don't care what other people use, see korean sc. it does not make one thing better or worse (for me).

[edit] one recent example:

apparently cooller realized sometime this year that higher usb hz are superior. should i really have waited 8 years for him to make the switch so i could too? ...are you retarded?

i benefited over years from 500hz usb and i'm glad i did not listen to the "pro" like you said i should have.

I'm using a Steelkeys which features the Cherry MX black switches.

Feels bad for typing and clicky as well, but the very best for gaming imo

Blacks aren't clicky :(

Correct, they are "clacky", which means the switches don't make a sound but the key caps do. So if you press and release the key lightly, you should get a softer clack, or no clack.

blacks or browns

Browns, definitely.

Blacks if you're into that shit (haha get it)

Have the 7G. I absolutely love it. Its simply so much better than anything based on rubber domes its not even funny.

One could only imagine it would be better than a keyboard based on condoms.

Ha, that made me lol so bad i almost fell of me chair

this man speaks the truth

Haven't you heard?

You could just get a generic mechanical keyboard for $5, or spend the extra $125 for a different logo.

Play them cards safely.

The funny thing is: black switches are common and they're advertised for gaming but actually browns are preffered if possible. They're even lighter than those blue "clicky" switches.

brown was too "easy" for me, I prefer black

black and reds are linear, i don't think any other types of mechanical switches are suited for hardcore gaming if you have to double-tap constantly.

I'm interested in trying a brown keyboard sometime but I'm absolutely in love with the way my deck legend looks and feels, the problem with the black switches is that you have to bottom them out if you want to be 100% sure that your keypress has registered, you can push the keycap halfway down but there's no tactile response at all, my typing speed is 81wpm max according to typeracer, but i believe that if english was my native language and i had a keyboard with brown keys i would probably hit 90wpm +

The tactile feedback is very subtle on browns if you are used to bottoming out the keys. Not noticeable when gaming to be honest. A lot nicer than there heavier black switches.

Browns. Good for gaming and typing. Blues are too loud and blacks aren't good for typing.

I thought the blacks were more designed for gaming because it requires more force compared to blue and browns so you don't accidentally press the wrong button

i doubt any of the cherry switches were designed for gaming tbh.

I dont really know TBH I have just read reviews saying Blacks are better for gaming because it requires more force and blue and browns are best for all round, gaming and typing because they don't require that much pressure.

and you believe everything you read on the internet? good boy, you'll make it far in life.

Yes but what they're saying makes sense.

blacks do not require more force...

http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/491752-mec...guide.html

they requre more force than the red switches, yes..

but i doubt they require more force than a normal keyboard.

Cherry Clears aka Das Legend are probably your best bet.

PS- Avenger just reads geekhack and makes extrapolations. Saying Browns aren't much of an improvement and implying they are bad for gamers is hogwash.

Bought a tenkeyless cherry brown Filco with NKRO from PChome.tw recently. They had an offer on for worldwide shipping $20 :))

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/212931/majestouch.jpg

How high are the keys? I've honestly been looking for a keyboard exactly like that but all of the ones I've looked into the keys have been really tall and bothersome for my fingers.

If you mean the key travel, ~2mm to activation and 4mm to bottom out.

If you mean the size of the keys themselves, well they aren't laptop keys if that's what you mean. The board itself it fairly low profile.

For a comparison

http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachment...1273599954

Top row IBM. Then Topre, Cherry Corp (G81 doubleshot), and Filco at bottom

I have one of these puppies in the mail http://www.verkkokauppa.com/popups/prodinfo.php?id=43871

Uniform or variable key weighting?

I was always kind of curious how I topre would feel.

Variable. Not optimal for gaming, but I doubt I will feel a difference.

I personally cant stand mechanicals.
My cherry cymotion feels better in any way.
-low noise
-wider keysurface
-lowered keyhub
-smooth griptexture

playin with either blacks or browns felt absolutly like a step backwards, while it was an immediate step forward when i replaced my cheap logitech multimedia keyboard with the cherry cymotion.

Oh I hate the sound of Mechanical keyboards.
I find them very delicate too. I dont have one and will never buy one.

My G15v2 is nice quiet, reliable and cheap too.
I cant believe that if you switch to Mechanical keyboard you will play better. Its just a gimmick I think. Any good player can play on dell keyboard and pwn without problem. Its just personal preference too.

Mouse is the only thing that can make little change in your playstyle bit if you want to. Still players search for perfect mouse and pros play good with Mx518, DA, 3.0 and Xai ofc.

They just blame current mice ( shape or sensor) are not good then how pros are using it?
Anyway this is not mouse topic and there are plenty around in forum.

"I find them very delicate too."

What the hell are you talking about? I could beat someone to death with my keyboard and it would be functioning perfectly afterwards.

They looks like they will break within time mate. Thats all.
You need to see hardware abuse what gamers do.
Yours KB prob is strong as you saying.

Had mine a year and a bit... No problems

mechanical switches have very good durability actually... i remember people claiming they were still playing on their ibm board from the late 80's :S

I am. but it is undoubtedly showing it's age. what "cherry" switch would that spring mechanism compare to? I would like a mechanical keyboard sometime which is not as big as this, but still the same feel.

Blue.

i'll remember that, thanks

The realforce are quiet mechanicals :)

You don't know shit if you think, you would improve your game by buying some cherry mechanical keyboard.

It is only personal preference and practice.

-Fatality owned people with his own Keyboard and it was nowhere near to mechanical or nkro.

-Cooller owns ass with a Razer Tarantula. No mechanical switches or nkro here (only anti-ghosting for up to 10 random keys, and by random I mean random).

-Cypher owns people with Tarantula, so does av3k. BURNEDD even uses Lycosa (even for me it is too spongy).

You now can say: "They are all sponsored and play on the shit they get from the office. Trollolo aso.", BUT if they would play on Keyboards that give them a "disadvantage" (that's what you think about rubber dome) some random guys would own them with their "super-sick-fucking-expencive-cherry-mechanical-nkro-shit-keyboards". For some reason this does not happen, why?

Because the skill matters and not the key switches in your keyboard.

Now have fun trolling

Just need to press keys at right moment and right time. Any keyboard will work. Dont know what's all fuss these companies making to sell their shits to these noobs.

You're right. Buying a mechanical keyboard won't make you a better player. However it will make you more comfortable when you are typing and to some degree when you play games.

As long as it can accommodate the maximum key presses you need and is comfortable to type on it doesn't matter whether it costs $5 or $100. However a mechanical keyboard offers a consistent uniform feeling and different switches offer different feeling key presses which are customised to suit a wide range of tastes.

The reason most people don't buy a mechanical keyboard is because a standard keyboard is so cheap by comparison and the functionality remains pretty much the same even with a mechanical keyboard. However it is the input device that is most used, and if you use your computer a lot it can be a worthwhile investment, especially since they will last ten times longer than a standard keyboard.

Edit : the worst thing you can do is buy a "gaming" keyboard from razer or logitech (maybe excluding the blackwidow depending on it's build quality) as then you are paying far too much for a standard keyboard with a few flashy lights. If a good keyboard is important enough to you that you will spend the price of a Logitech G15 or a Razer Tarantuala then mechanical is definitely the way to go!

that's exactly what I said in this thread and in esr in general. You just don't spend 10x the price of a regular keyboard to make you a better player. You do it so it feels better for general use, or for some obscure uses (blind people, some rhythm games, etc).

nobody in this thread ever claimed that buying a mechanical keyboard would make you better at quake.

learn 2 read.

but some claim that it feels more comfortable while gaming, and i cant agree on that, but the opposite happened to me.

it's not best for gaming because it will give you any advantage, it's best for gaming because you buy it for 15 years at least and the feel won't change. All my rubber-dome keyboards went apeshit WSAD wise after a 1.5-2 years or so, and i have no problem at all since I got my steelkeys.

on the other hand you can buy 10 keyboards instead of 1 mechanical

I bought ten mechanicals, do I win?

No you spent extra money!

I bought the sample model from a store, it was dusty but was new and very cheap:P

I had used Razer Arctosa. It was the shittiest keyboard I ever used.

Partially because I press the keys a bit too hard and partially because it's shit. But the major part is because it's a shitty gimmicky "gaming" product.

w,a,s,d became half-stuck after doing a few defrag runs, the whole thing was anything but robust, not sure why they added usb cord for selective antighosting.
My main grudge with it was the build quality, which just happens to be beyond terrible with all razer products.

I'm currently using das keyboard ultimate and I'm fully satisfied with it. It features blue switches and works fabulous.

The only thing that bothers me is the price tag. I'm using the keyboard for school/work/various projects, but if it was for gaming only I'd reconsider buying it.

<3

http://www.daskeyboard.com/images/products/2.jpg

Well, you actually bought the wrong keyboard from Razer. Arctosa is the low-cost segment Keyboard from Razer. With it's ~50€ its cheap (in normal stores you now can find it for under 40€) and has no gimmicks. It is mainly build out of shitty piano-optic plastic and feels like this plus it uses shitty components.

Even the Lycosa is better than this. Altough it is nearly the same keyboard, it uses much better plastic (still plastic but better) has rubber surface on the keys and is illuminated (for me it is importaint as I'm often playing in dark room). But it costs ~80€ allready.

If you want a really good keyboard for gaming and office-work (without spending 100+ € on a mechanical) you should search for a Tarantula. It does not cost too much now since it is taken from product-list (got mine two years ago for 120€ but then it was "new", since then it works as if I just have unpacked it). It is pretty heavy and feels very solid, has Anti-Ghosting (know wrong term but they call it like this) for up to 10 random keys (so no problems with key-combinations not working unless you are a mutant and you have more than 10 fingers) and 10 extra keys (i personally don't use them but they could be pretty handy for mmo or rts games) with illumination plus a extra doc for a torch-light (19.99€) or a webcam. It is really a good keyboard, even if it's not mechanical.

Then there is still the BlackWiddow which is mechanical but only has 6kro and no real wirst-rest, plus it costs ~130€ in the "Ultimate" version.

For me a good keyboard must have a wirst-rest, a possibility to illuminate it, flat notebook-style keys (simply can't write on those fat cherry-like keys) and should feature some kind of key Rollover so I can play without keys-skipping.

And yes, Razer, SteelSeries and other "Gaming-Brands" are overrated and the prices for their products are way too high.

excuse me? 40€ is cheap for something useless?

well, you learn something new every day:)

For Razer that's REALLY cheap :). But if you have red my post you know that I said Razer and every other "Gaming-Brand" is way to overrated and their products are too expencive for what hey offer.

"and has no gimmicks."

This is what got me into buying it, it says so on the box.
Let me take it out of the drawer and read that shit for you.
There goes:
Message from Razerguy
No-nonsense, no bling; this baby does what it's supposed to do - allow you to perform better and faster in-game.

Well if this really is what this baby is supposed to do than thanks, I don't really need it.

Also, it has selective anti-ghosting + USB cord. No PS2 Whatsoever.
As far as my knowledge goes, anti-ghosting and USB do not go hand in hand.

And I agree with everything else you wrote, 40€ for a razer product is not much, considering poop instantly becomes 50€ more expensive just because it has Razer label on it.

The tarantula has shitty rubber domes. It feels great for 4-5 months only. I got two of them.

A good rubber dome keyboard costs something like 30$ (key tronic E03600 for example), great for gaming.

Well as I said, have mine since 2 years. Still feels like it's brandnew.

I must admit that I often read from people that the products they have bought from Razer have broken very fast or don't feel good after some months. I dunno if it is a problem with unconsistant quality from Razer or if the people have cg_placebo "1" in their heads, but all my Razer-Gear works and worked fine (unless I have killed it myself like with my old DeathAdder which I slammed on the table and broke one of the buttons).
Until now I had:

Razer Tarantula
Razer Diamondback (original not the 3G)
Razer Mantis Control
Razer DeathAdder (original)
Razer DeathAdder 3G

All of those were really reliable and imo where worth the price I have payed for them and I'm looking forward to buying a Razer Orca.

Beside that I have tried and used:

Razer Lycosa Mirror
Razer Imperator
Razer Krait
Razer Destructor

this four did not make it up to my expectations and I gave them back after some weeks.

Peace

the Tarantula is actually better than the Lycosa?
what did you not like about Krait? perfect mouse imo : )

other than that, Razer DeathAdder (original) = Razer DeathAdder 3G
the new one's called Razer DeathAdder Respawn (3.5G)

Ye ment that (forgot about the 3.5) ment the 1800DPI and the 3500DPI.

Krait did not feel good for FPS it seemed kinda skipping to me.

Tarantula is way better than Lycosa because of the shape the buttons have and the response of them, also the sound of the lycosa buttons anoyed me quite a bit.

Imperator is simply not worth the money.

Destructor is a good pad but its hard and afther it I decided not to use hardpads anymore (noise and it's pretty uncomfy for my wirst).

Peace

Tarantula is better than Lycosa in every aspect

send me one of those

I received the Razer Blackwidow in the mail a few days ago, got it off new egg for around $60, which is stupid cheap for a mx blue mechanical keyboard.

Anyway, it's really nice, except for some ghosting issues with Caps Lock. If you use Caps for anything (like to run in CoD, or push to talk in vent/mumble), then you're movement will be impaired

Other than that, it's a very nice keyboard.

ahh nice! I've been looking for some more reviews on the blackwidow from gamers instead of general review hype like IT HAS A USB INPUT ON THE SIDE AND THE KEYS ARE ALSO BLUE!!! (ultimate edition only) :P

aww :/ the black widow is still 100€ on amazon.de.

any chance you are playing with esdf and could test some more key combos? this looks like pretty good keyboard.

ESDF is a bit rough for this keyboard. CAPS and TAB struggle with movement keys. For example, if I'm moving forward and right, I can't bring up the scoreboard, nor can I talk on vent (caps lock).

As for the rest, it seems okay. Those are my two biggest issues with it.

that's fine with me. i don't need caps/lock/tab/ctrl with ESDF, i only use them with WASD. if the other key combos are fine i'd consider this keyboard as long as i get it around the price you paid.

It's on NewEgg for about 79.99 USD. I might shell out the extra money for the professional one, if I do, I can sell this one to you for cheaper.

i'm a little short on cash right now (want to invest in new pc and 120hz tft finally), so don't this if you rely on me for it :) ...but i'm actually considering it.

No worries, will be a few weeks before I can get the Ultimate version anyways.

check geekhack.org for sophisticated reviews!

The BlackWiddow is really nice but it's not worth the money. If you really search a mechanical keyboard you will have to pay atleast 100€ so you better get a real nkro-keyboard instead of a 6kro where most of your money goes for the brands-name (BW is still damn nice but it's not the best choice for mech-keyboard).

The blackwidow is presently the cheapest MX blue switches mechanical keyboard and it's very well built.
It's really worth the money for anyone who wants to buy a 'good but not too expensive' mechanical keyboard.
6kro is good enough for any fps, nkro is great for fast typists only, gamers or not.