Is this map still about holding middle room and camping there 3/4 of the time or someone reinvented the play style? :>

this only proves his point

As boring as your summary of q2dm1/Edge seems, the map still produces some amazing duel action for that very same reason: the MH/middle room. The middle room packs the only chaingun(CG), MH, YA(yellow armor) and an intermittently spawning ammo pack to increase your overall ammo capacity.
**very unlike ql, ammo use/conservation plays an important role in controlling Edge. The weap spawn time also allows control in order to whore, say, a CG, the map's most useful, functional weap.**

So the entire middle room becomes a choke point of action, unlike in ql where one sets traps around armor/health points. Very few maps feature this lack of balance, which actually forces players to get creative in how they attack a middle room controller. You can easily just +forward and wind up with a 57-2 score or brain somebody and get control back.

yeap

unfortunately there just aren't that many q2 duel matches tubed, so picking dami&purri (on dm1 of course) makes sense given they are the highliners -- does make mefa's point but ONLY because you're watching two skill juggernauts refusing to budge to each other.

I know you're thinking of tons and tons of crazy, high-scoring dm1 duels of good skill, but I'd hate to ask people to install q2 just to view them.

There are many ways of playing the edge. Watch a demo from 1998 and then watch 1x demo from each year until today from any top player and you will notice quite huge difference. You can also check 1x game from me and then watch 1x game from Damiah and you will see that we have very different styles/ways of playing that map :)

However, when 2 similar skilled players play. It can be a 2-1 score or a 22-19 score. It really plays different since most player really know every single angle of the map and you have to be careful. Same as in pro-q3dm6 where you have same scenarios happening. 1 mistake can cost you the game, but also you can make comeback out of nowhere!

q2 lol

who's in for a dm6 only league?

adrenal1ne high ping bastard.

adz = high strung ping bastard ;P

lol, he will be really bad with hi ping.. dont think he will even win at least one european player :P Besides, he is very bad at dm1 :P Not sure why he signed, but probably to support our scene a bit =P

harsh

gerppa #1

the fact that damiah is a q2star, does it mean it is aimonly D:?

not in the least...the game itself rewards strat&movement over aim. Remember q2's got long weap&ammo&health respawn times making for less spam and more thoughtful exchanges.

As for damiah, he aims well, in part, because he predicts well. On one of his best maps q2rdm2 (q3's Chastity Belt), he pushes opponents around the map into predictable areas, so his rails are much more set-up and relaxed, then a pressured, hurried player. When dahang used to play damiah and was figuring out how to beat him on Chastity, he would say "he thinks so much faster."
So I would describe damiah's q2dm1 as not "aim only" but more accurately as relentless and smothering.

Damiah is really smart, probably smartest duel player in Q2.

why not in q3/ql then :d

Lack of experience (1year of ql/q3?). Besides he dont play a lot of QL since he dont have time for gaming anymore.

If you look at QL stats, then I understand your assumption.

Damiah in Q2 is a different story. He relies much more on smartness and prediction. He knows what to do, when to do it and when not to do it and he does it with very strong aim. Watch a few demos/youtube and you will hopefully see it.

provi still the best dm1'er easily

syanid easily the best q2duel1 player

not d1 but ptrip...

ptrip? damiah of course!

sorry I won't agree :))

agreed :P

Damiah is the best!
But I've seen Provi beat Damiah at q2dm1 in some times. Was awesome!!

I sure hope he signs up. Together with yourself and Damiah!

where does 3v-ramses score in the top dm1 list. That's a name i've heard before in the danish quakescene.
Or did he suck like the rest of us :>

There was a time when you had a clan called [TBC] if I recall correctly. Those were top div 1 class in Q2TDM and they also had a guy called 'Monkey' that I remember very well. Don't remember them as very good duelers but very skilled TDM players :)

Denmark is cursed with noob duelers :(

You have had very classy TDM teams in both Q2 and Q3 (Vikings anyone?:). You have also had good duelers, but perhaps not a top 3 finisher though that I can recall right now. Brescia(spelling) is the most successful 'Dane' in Quake duel from Denmark? Do I forget someone? :)

exactly, and players I can take maps from doesnt count :D

Excuse me but where the f is Thresh at that list... Purri ? lol ... gimme a break :p

thresh is best dm1 player ever? didnt he quit q2 at 99?

purri was always top / best duel player in q2 scene

level?

Thresh over Purri? Todays? Man, pls! Thresh only was "the best" in "q2´s beggin era".

If you knew anything about Thresh. It would be that he was better at maps like q2dm3 and ptrip. He was never outstanding on dm1. Also it's not fair to compare today vs yesterday in any game, sport or competition since it's just speculation :)

I just wanted to point this out. Not that I would be better or worse than anyone. Just that your knowledge of this player seems a bit off what I remember him for.

it's like comparing early q3 days over ql, soccer (FOOTBALL), etc.
Now in ql the level of players is way better to the point the worst seeded player of dreamhack could destroy the best of 2001

but ofc you should respect the man since he made the multiplayer gameplay of your favorite game..

You are right.

Also that is what I'm doing. I'm informing about him. Not talking him down in any way and I would never do so about anyone :)

A hero, that's what you are!

"The best 5 q2dm1 players ever" after Quake3 got released I guess ? Since before that time you had Shub, Blue, Rufus, Makaveli, Immortal, Lord-Vader, (the american, if I'm right on his name) who were the top of q2dm1 as far I can remember, yet not listed here which is pretty weird.

Can't tell after Quake3 got released, since I stopped following the Q2 scene and switched to Q3 myself. Still find Shub best q2dm1 player ever though, but this ofcourse was before Q3 fully got released.

As I said, 'best dm1 players ever' not best players in the beginning of q2

still pretty weird to leave those names out when the game was at its peak no ? Not saying they were better than the names you list now. Just find it weird to not see those big names on it :)

Besides, it was far from the beginning of Q2 as you just replied. It was when Q2 was as its peak , 2 years after its release and before Q3 fully came out. Bit weird to call that the beginning of Quake2 when 2 years passed :)

I agree that the list of best dm1 players 'ever' could be endless. Shub should definitely be on the list. Blue is a personal favorite as well. It's hard to define this list since there has not been many 'dm1' only tournaments and back in the day it was more public scene rather than competition scene for so many players. Should you judge on practice games or 'official' games etc. I just stick with my favorites and I think most people should do the same. There has been so many good Q2 players and majority of the good Q2 players knew/knows The edge :)

I also think this list above should be 'Careems' list. Or where did you find this top 5?

The game was at its peak around 2003 - 2004 imo and not before Q3 was released like you said.

Maybe it was more popular but there were hardly any international competitions because of bad connections. Nobody knew about the Polish players for instance even though they were already fucking good.

The best players at that time were the guys who could afford a good connection, good hardware and travel to LAN tournaments.

The players you mentioned are precursors for sure but they're not the best overall.

Purri rose to the top in 2001 at the time of the first NDML and stayed up there for all these years. The way Q2 has been played the past 9 years has a lot more to do with Purri than with those "legends".

Another huge factor when (erroneously) comparing players from different years -- q2's point releases. For example, strafe jumping didn't exist in the q2 release version played between say, Thresh and Immy.

And fps...if you think there's no difference at all between playing quake2 on a celeron 500 with an 8mb voodoo2 vid card...and any system from the last three years, I've got a few voodoo cards to sell you!

+ Absolutely true about Thresh considered as a top dm3 player. There's a lot of web research you can pull up to show that Thresh was smart to quit when he did. If he continued playing in tournaments, in just a few months (after the date he quit) he would have encountered Lord Vader or Maka on dm1 with drastically different results and seriously diminish his now legendary status.

- where's combi? -just a joke aimed at Purri ;)

i need the web to answer me this (pointing at you evilbollweevil):

the rumored hand grenades only win for thresh vs. maka on dm1? has anyone even seen this? maka supposedly had full weapon choice...

and just what of bubbly gump? those demos should be pulled up and rewatched to see how talent shifts over time to match a supposed higher and more contemporary tier. that is if was him of course....

intriguing story there about hand-naded Thresh beating full-weap'ed Maka on dm1, but I have a few doubts:

* Any player that can hang with Shub or Blue (like Makavelli) will never lose to ANY player using only handnades. I know that's just obvious, but needs to be said. Besides Maka would just chain Thresh into oblivion!
* To be that nimble and quick around a map, using only handnades, requires some serious speed and strafe running/bunny hopping -- not "available"(as bugs) in the point release played then.

As thresh was the "king" when Q2 was new, he could probably have beaten a noobish Maka when he was new to the game, a player who later could hang with Shub and Blue.

omfg I played q2 for about 10 years and I didn't know about that (strafe jumping)

Pretty amusing comments. Seriously thought, what do you people know about Quake 2 and the Edge.

Comparing modern day players to oldschool players is perfectly fine. It's the same as comparing a modern day philosopher with Plato. Plato was only restricted by his times, not by his ability.

It's not what you do 'in' the scene, it's what you do 'for' the scene.

Regards,

Myrmidon.

Comparing modern day players to oldschool players is perfectly fine. It's the same as comparing a modern day philosopher with Plato. Plato was only restricted by his times, not by his ability.

Well if this is the analogy you're gonna use, then you would have to assume that human brains did NOT significantly change over that short (for evolution, yes) time period. True on that count.

However, comparing very early players to modern ones doesn't hold up to your analogy. The VERY game itself changed; as I've already said, the two major point releases changed the game, as well as hardware changes. Thresh couldn't strafe run NOT because he didn't have the ability...it WASN'T "built into" ("exploited" more accurately) the game until the bug in the next point release!

* again play q2 on a celery 500 with 8mb voodoo2 card, then play on something today (or even from five years ago)...Not to mention the combined effects of widespread faster connections and cumulative skill-strat sharing by leagues/clans,etc.

I started Quake 2 on a celeron 400 and a voodoo 3 3000. I could strafe jump perfectly fine.

You're right. The game did evolve but the players did not. Infact the addiction of modern clients, paks and the rise of super fast internet has degraded the players development process within the game. This is especially seen in the more newer players that started around 2002/2003+.

However a player like Thresh revolutionized Dm1 duel setting the standards for everyone to aspire to. This has been seen in other players to such as Blue of Sweden who created the more modern aggressive chaingun style of Quake 2 still used widely today. It is people like these guys who should be in that list. I am not saying the players in that list are not good but they are certainly no Edge 'Legends' maybe besides Purifier.

So pretty much your comment has just proven mine.

hi thresh

That problem was already discussed above. There are 2 totally different things: objectively best players ever and players who revolutionized gameplay or were the best of their time. The second ones are the so called "legends" in order to be featured in lists.

The list reads "The best 5 q2dm1 players ever" and not "q2 legends". If they add them they should be in a separate list just for the sake of nostalgia.


The great thing about q3/ql is that the same pros/top players still play so no problem there, maybe besides cooller.

Read original statement.

I still miss some players like provi, scooby, wzrd, naymlis, the king, odium, miko, kingpin, zyz, deblade, tforce, shock and many more in the signups list! Somebody wake them up!