You wanna kill one of the most beautiful elements of quake - spawn fragging.

I liked q3 spawn system.

hahaha, what? Quake spawn system BEAUTIFUL?

Oh, poland, that explains it.

Spawn fragging.

See: Hoony Mode.

that would be stupid imo, the killed player could just choose to spawn near to ra or mega / weapon and take back control without doing anything special

Hoony mode is gay

Nothing wrong with spawn fragging. It's forcing spawns and shit start spawns which can make games a bit tiresome.

I told you bitches how to do it years ago, make it random and allow the player to control WHEN (not where) they enter the level when they press the button.

That way you can take the blame the player puts on the game and shuffle it off to probability and their own doing because they were only two factors that determined thier positioning.

The reason the player is pissed at the moment is because they blame the code which determines their fate. Although some basic areas would have to be defined for spawns. Totally random is bad.

Take that out and they'll learn to accept it.

imagine palying a game of roulette or black jack where the outcome was fixed?
in other words, if the cards in the deck changed dynamically in response to what your opponent had, the ball landed in fixed areas depending on the bets placed? Sounds like a fruit machine right?

It would be bullshit and make the game bad. This is how it is at present, you need to remove that aspect from the game and the problem will be mush less problematic.

You can't write a bit of code which predicts level design and how a player can move around it.
And you wonder why its fucking broken when you keep building games on broken principles.

Either that or lower the incetive for spawn fragging by giving a freshly spawned player 2 seconds of haste, which makes the mrun faster and fire faster. If you lower the incentive of a spawn frag it will become much less of problem.

There you go, two real, easy workable solutions to solve your problem. Pick on and have a blast.

Sure, let's make it even easier to bleed the clock! You never fail to disappoint.

yeah, those 2 seconds of haste are really gonna make a huge difference when the spawn point is spammed with plasma or aimed at with a rail.

better yet: give players an instagib rail for 2 seconds after they spawn.

that way, the otehr player will have to run away from the spawn point!!

lmfao :D

also your analogy is irrelevant, as many people (often those who enjoy thinking ahead) don't like randomness.

Ask a chess player if he would enjoy a change of the rules:
Instead of always winning when you "attack" a piece, the other player gets to roll a dice and if he rolls a 6 the attacking piece is removed.

I bet the chess players would be thrilled by having a random element in their game ...


With the current system, predicting the possible spawn locations resulting from taking a fight in a specific location has become a skill. Even though the implementation needs improvement, it is a way to give the game more depth.
With your random "solution" there is no predictions anymore and both players just have to rely on luck.

Why do some of you idiots bother?

I realise trying to disprove someone like me is appealing but you continually come up short.

Dummy #1
Vedic, it would be not be ANY different to how it currently works, there would obviously be a FORCED timelimit with how long you can wait until the game does it for you. Given that's the only reason you've come up, that's you taken care of. You can already withhold spawning in for a few seconds. most people would agree that isn't really a deciding factor in games, given it accounts for less than 1% of the play time (no different to blocking in fighting games, or playing defense in sport), but that fits in tune with how you operate on the web. Pick the smallest fact and present it as an average because its the only chance of disagreeing, whilst oblivious to the fact that you can do this with ANYTHING.

Dummy #2

Becks, yes those two seconds would make a difference, firstly, if you suspect you're going to be spammed off the spawn you hold left or right off the spawn. Secondly, you fail to recognise that the ONLY reason people currently spam spawns is because the positions are predictable, you forget that by removing this system its random, so IF<<<< the opposing player chooses the spawn, where the spawning player jsut happens to spawn its tough luck.
On top of that, if you have haste it would take someone with god like reflexes to casue any real sort of damage, especially if the player held left or right off the spawn to anticipate this. On to pof this you could add .25 seconds of invincibility, which would solve this problem to the point where 9/10 it would not be worth trying to spawn frag, so players would just not do it nearly anywhere near as much.

If you can come up with one SOLID reason with why it won't work please do. I tell you what, why don't you chip in and combine your knowledge and see if it exceeds one solid answer?

Secondly, you fail to recognise that the ONLY reason people currently spam spawns is because the positions are predictable, you forget that by removing this system its random,

There you go, two real, easy workable solutions

uhm, if both "solutions" are one and the same it's really not two solutions, is it?

So yeah, invincibility would be a solution to the problem, but that is hardly a new approach. Considering id already put it into a game 2 years ago...

Invincibility isn't a solution on its own because if an opponent can still predict the spawn based on dodgy algorithms, there will be many cases where the opponent just dies a few seconds later.

It needs to work in conjunction with what i said becaue that takes the blame off the game, I didn't mention invincibility because as I said, the randomness of it would discourage the spamming anyway, which isn't really a common problem, more of an opportunity to disagree by using the easiest, but ultimately less problematic variable of attack.

most problems of the current algorith come from being hit by spam or rail right at the time of the spawn.
That and abusing teleporters to "fool" the system.
To just avoid the spam damage invicibilty is a valid solution. If the spawning player can't escape or make enough damage with mg to at least hurt his opponent the spawn system is the least of his problems.

No they don't, most of that damage can be avoided off the spawn and its few and far between except on dodgy played maps or those that just have design holes in.

The problem is volumetric, just because you don't die within a second of spawning, it doesn't mean you're safe, in fact it can be worse becuase if you're losing and you spawn in a position where you have no real chance of escape, you're still going to die and you're losing way more more futally staying alive. try spawning low Sg on Dm6 against someone in control who knows you're there. You can last 30-60 seconds easy, but the outcome is usually death+wasted time as the only escape is eay to cover by standing on mid tier near stars and drop down to LG.

Again, its only NOW being spammed because the opponent is working the system in place (its a higher rate of succees), take that out (which is my main point) and what he's really doing is playing out lottery of pure chance which won't be worth it, assuming average of 10 potential spawn points on a map. Are you going to waste time gaining ground and positioning in favour of pinning your hopes that the positon you choose to spam just happens to match the one the player does, when you could be gaining position or collecting armours/items/or blocking that important weapon in anticipation of what the opponent does next. Spamming spawns is a lottery at the best of times. reducing the incentive will effectively reduce it all together, apart from the odd luck kill.

That's the point, it will become much likely for a player to not even bother trying to spawn rape. Which will fix the problem.

I can count the times on one hand per game (in fact its seldom more than once) I get raped off the spawn with plasma/rail/rocket, the biggest problem is being locked down off the spawn. A winning opponent will prefer that, because not only has he secured the kill, but he's wasting your time too, which is a bigger problem in a 10 minute duel.

No they don't, most of that damage can be avoided off the spawn and its few and far between except on dodgy played maps or those that just have design holes in.

you might wanna watch a few games...

If it isn't a significant time change, how could it be different in ANY way? You're claiming that it's 1% of the play time, and you're going to solve all the issues of the spawn system by making it 1.2%?

If you made a significant change in the time allowed, you've slightly solved one problem, and increased another exponentially. If you only change it a little, you don't change one problem, and slightly increase another.

The FORCED spawn time would not get touched, the rules which dictate WHERE the player spawns are the only thing that changes.

Because there will be no crappy, inaccurate spawn system which is trying to position you fairly (based on written code by people who can't possibly do it right) it means that if you press the "spawn in" button while the game is cycling through random spawn points it means nobody is to blame for where they spawn apart from them.

The result of this is...

A) The player can't bitch and moan at the game and won't.

B) There will be no real point to trying to spawn kill because its going to be random totally random, so unless you visually see the player spawn in, you're not going to have a clue.

The FORCED spawn time would not get touched, the rules which dictate WHERE the player spawns are the only thing that changes.

Hmm...

I told you bitches how to do it years ago, make it random and allow the player to control WHEN (not where) they enter the level when they press the button.

Would you like some help making up your mind?

Yet again its you that does not understand. Let me make it real simple for you.

PRESENT SITUATION

When the player dies, the player has x amount of seconds to respawn into the level before the game auto respawns.

The POSITION of that spawn point is determined by whatever iteration id are using to determine some "good spawn point" usually away from the player, but it ends up turning to shit and getting abused becaue you can't write a peice of code that works across all level designs or whatever tricks a player will find to abuse it.

MY IDEA

The game still has an auto spawn in system to stop them from delaying spawn to excessive times, but instead the game cycles through random spawn points which are NOT based on any other factors, like distace from last kill, or distace from last opponent.

When the player presses the spawn button, they have essentially choosen their spawn point from a TOTALLY random set of points.

So, there will be no system to abuse, neither will there be any blame towards the game if and when bad spawns crop up, it will be nothing but a lottery which is the only fair way because at present players are getting pissed at the game for making a bad choice.

If you take that element out of the game, it will actualyl be their FAULT because they are the one that pressed the button and picked where they started.

Just as when people do the lottery, they don't moan at the organisers that its fixed, or the person who sold them the ticket.
They make their own luck.

That's the only way to get rid of the whining until they do something much more advanced-to which they won't cos its only a problem for expereinced players.

first:

make it random and allow the player to control WHEN (not where)

later:

but instead the game cycles through random spawn points [...] When the player presses the spawn button, they have essentially choosen their spawn point

When a ball is bouncing over a roulette table and waiting to land isn't it still in a random state?

That's what would be happening while you wait to respawn, you choose when you enter, but its still cycling through random possibilities without any intervention from the spawn code or the opposing player. That is when you spawn in, you can't blame anyone but yourself or probability.

Try and catch up will you, its supposed to be a hardcore game forum.
This isn't rocket science.

so why the hell does it have to cycle?
Why not have a randomizer select the spawn right when you press the button. You surely are no programmer ...

also, in case you are too retarded to notice why people call you names, reread your posts.

You could, but if you know its cycling all the time it feels more random.
psychological. Wouldn't it be great if the lottery machine just picked the numbers digitally, instead of seeing the bounching balls. Why don't you ask people?

If you applied your principle to roulette it would take all of the anticipation out and I'm pretty sure every roulette player would tell you that's half the fun of watching it bounce around.

But you're german and genetically boring plus I sense a definite nazi type element to your personality, so it does not surprise me you want to take out the fun and make it more efficient. You could even have potential spawn points flash up if you wanted a visual feedback on the cycling spawns.

Do keep trying. but I think you're already at that stage where you're slipping. But as long as you're learning its ok.

it's funny that you always feel the need to bring up your nazi attack when you feel insecure.


as in every second post or so.

It sounds a lot better when you don't reply to my every post with a snide remark because you're permanently licking your wounds from the day before.

What am I insecure of?

Your lovely accent?
Your inner shame?
Knowing less about games than me?
Being worse at them than me?
Your colourful history, or just the fact that it takes you 5-6 posts to get what I'm talking about because you're that far behind and equipped with a know it all personality.

See it would be so bad if you got to the end of this post and proved me wrong, as it stood, with every post, you were the one that run out of ideas and reasoning while mine are standing tall.

That's why I'm not playing the insecure card because I run out of things to say and I'm pinning my hopes on an arbitrary sweeping statement.

I think you're done for today and this is all wrapped up day. Come back again.

Your lovely accent?
Your inner shame?
Knowing less about games than me?
Being worse at them than me?
Your colourful history, or just the fact that it takes you 5-6 posts to get what I'm talking about because you're that far behind and equipped with a know it all personality?

wanna try to back anything of that up or do you enjoy looking like an idiot?

I gotta wonder though.

Are you really under the impression that your posts make you look like a smart person, and that your retorts, attempted arguments and insults are actually worth serious answers?

The game still has an auto spawn in system to stop them from delaying spawn to excessive times, but instead the game cycles through random spawn points which are NOT based on any other factors, like distace from last kill, or distace from last opponent.

This doesn't stop spam, this doesn't stop spawn running, and it doesn't change the fact that many spawns are simply death traps, even if you manage to escape the spam. All you are doing is trying to take the blame away from the players, and potentially rewarding luck.

If you take that element out of the game, it will actualyl be their FAULT because they are the one that pressed the button and picked where they started.

No, it wouldn't. It's random. There is no right or wrong, and it's nobody's fault. However, SOMEONE will either win or lose due to it, and that should have nothing to do with a roll of the dice.

Just as when people do the lottery, they don't moan at the organisers that its fixed, or the person who sold them the ticket.

That's because they're idiots to play it to begin with. "The lottery is a tax on people who flunked math."

"I realise trying to disprove someone like me is appealing"

I wish I could disprove you but sadly it's all too evident that you exist.

Q3 OSP spawn system was perfect, no point in debating what should be done when the solution to the problem is and always has been right there. Spawn raping was not a problem in Q3 it was a skill. ( At least for those who had any idea of what they were doing, loved the players who got killed 7x times in a row in a ztn match and raged "LUCK!" because they didnt know how to stop the spawn rape )

If ID want to take that certain skill aspect out of the game that is their business. But if they want QL to be competitive then random doesnt really make sense..

full ack !

agree in 100%

For duel:
Spawn furthest from opponent with a clause that the system blocks all spawns in direct line of sight. (Also computationally easy). Or, even slightly better, make a bounding box the size of the rocket's splash damage and block all spawns where the opponent has direct sight of the box.

Fixed.

Well, you could still spawnrape to an extent, but it would remove a lot of bad spammable spawns, like the lg stairs spawn on dm6, sg/gl spawns on ztn, most spawns on t9, etc.

A more ideal solution would be to eliminate spawns that you can see by moving x units/projectiles are flying towards, but I imagine it would be unfeasible due to the computations required.

lets make quake round based. new round after 1 frag.

slap me!