gg Rapha. WP

Well done Rapha. Spend those G's wisely.

Or just don't spend them?

peanuts ayE?

i bumped the 2 sk video interviews cause they got overlooked when they were new but not major

First gg Cooller and second gg Rapha :)

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

nice guys finish first :)

no, never

Grats Rapha! I am a huge Cooller/EU fan but i have to admit that Rapha is really nice guy!

This interview seemed pretty insulting lol. Rarely will you see an interviewer call a champion lucky, and then go through and list all the situations that he feels said champion was lucky.

Especially when that champion plays for the company of the site the interviewer is paid his salary from.

I'm confused by your post. Do you mean that it is somehow less insulting or more insulting because the interview is done by sk?

Basic English confuses you? Is it not your mother tongue? Or would you rather be addressed in American?

I take it you speak cuntonese?

If we're at the kiddie jokes area, tell me, how's the weather down there in gaysville? OMG IM SO FUNNEH.

well done


and now shut it

Are you seriously telling me to shut up over the internet? Oh my, you must surely mean business then.

about 2.5 jamerio businesses

His statement was ambiguous, without tone there was no way to see the intent (ie true meaning) behind his post.

No tone?
LOL

yeah, you don't get the same informative tone you get from speaking with someone face to face that you get through reading a statement. What is funny about that?

Happens all the time in team-based interviews in real sports.

Not like it could have brought Rapha down at that moment though. If the guy was intentionally being insult, I don't think Rapha noticed/cared.

those were probably the moments that stuck the most in raphas memory..
not much sense in asking him:
"remember that nice shaft aim you put off at 2:00"?
rapha:" yeah... "
interviewer: "nice!"

you could tell the interviewer had made some notes of the game, atleast im guessing, and he asked questions of moments in game that were critical for rapha's win..

Those were questions about some key situations. Also, the interviewer's job is not to ask awesome questions but to get awesome answers, sometimes at the expense of provoking the interviewee with statements the interviewer does not even believe in. There's nothing wrong about that.

I agree with you, I didn't say anything about the quality of the questions or response.

Nice guy man, definately deserved the win.

I dont see where the close games and cooller playing amazing are coming from though? I was disappointed in the finals, thought cooller played rubbish compared to his group stage.

Doesnt take anything away from raphas win though, he won when it mattered so gz to him.

dm6 was painful. The extensive ra delays which gave rapha ample room to restack on ya and gain position. The devastating rl vs. lg fight at mh, with all those nervous rockets don't hitting anything. The double rl jump to ya. Just too many mistakes, I'm sorry to say.

If he hadn't delayed the RA and thus, MH+RA had spawned roughly at the same time, rapha would probably have been able to get either RA or MH due to his good positioning.
So I don't see this as a mistake by cooller.

He played it slowly and smart in order to keep all the main items and then fucked it up by missing 3 rockets in a row in the MH pit.

Ye I know that he tried to line up ra and mh. It has taken too long anyway, and repeatedly so. And soon enough rapha was able to steal some anyway.

I'd have to watch the demos again, but I guess he should have been looking for another rail shot or two instead, and then go for position where he can possibly defend both or at least deliver some damage while rapha is taking an item.

Just look at rapha's pov. For minutes, he's been living almost exclusively off pillar health and ya, and was able to restack up to 100/100 most of the time following cooller's attacks. That's not the way to win, especially in a game where your aim isn't always on the spot.

Besides that. Rapha knew cooller delayed the ra twice.

Just rewatched.

From 10:00 until 6:30 rapha didn't have a _single_ chance to get back into the game while cooller safely scored the 1:0
Then cooller left that horrible fight at MH with a kill (2:0) and 23 points of health.

This enabled rapha to get RA + MH + 1 Frag.

Then we see a couple of very close minutes with no clear map control because cooller steals the RA right after being fragged.

Eventually, cooller goes into two LG vs LG fights while being out of position respectively with much lower stack and it's 3:2 for rapha.

Cooller then gets back into control because rapha doesn't challenge for a MH at all, but ruins his advantage with the double RJ to an already picked up YA and it's game over.

Summing it up, i counted 1 big mistake by cooller (mistimed YA), 1 big mistake by rapha (mistimed MH) and 2 risky moves by cooller that didn't pay off (LG vs LG out of position with slightly higher stack and attacking rapha's LG at MH without hitting his own rockets).

My timer goes upward.

OK, regarding those two ra delays at 1:23 and 2:01, where the first went on for almost 10 seconds. That's been precisely the time when rapha recovered from the initial rocket hits and the following railshot and picked up another ya. Precisely that pickup could have comfortably been challenged by cooller if he hadn't delayed ra that long. Where he could have caught rapha coming down from ya with rail, kill him, possibly get another spawn frag and likely pin him down on the following ya pickup.

The second delay was when rapha made it even to the bridge above cooller, luckily too late to deliver damage while still getting ra time again. Then made the jump to rail on which cooller could pin a railshot. And which luckily didn't prove fatal because rapha didn't come to make any use of that rail.

I still consider the first delay a mistake though. Rapha had no rail, was hurting and could have been put under pressure, at least mentally by giving further damage. Instead, he got ample breathing room, enough to even read ra times in both cases. Too passive with a 2:1 map standing, and encouraging rapha to finally attack the ra and following mh pickup with the known results.

Technically, with control over ra and mh, constant pressure should be given on ya. This is what cooller uses to do anyway. But didn't this time, thus giving rapha room to think and gain confidence.

Edit: minor correction, rapha could land one shot with that rail he gained, which was of no further relevance though.

So does mine, but the timer in the VOD goes downwards.

Well, you can either say that cooller failed at playing as aggressive as he usual does or you can state that he changed his style in order to not let rapha steal away the main items.

And this did in fact work out, because he was at 100/150 after his first frag and would most likely have continued to dominate the map if that fight at MH hadn't turned out that bad.

You're right, though. The YA was spawning 5 sec after the RA when cooller decided to delay it. RJing up and getting in position to rail someone at YA takes 3 seconds, so this would have been possible. However, we can't really expect him to know that. ;>

On the other hand, look at 7:45 (upwards clock). RA and MH spawn within 3 seconds and guess what: rapha gets the RA pretty cleanly although cooller is in control. ;)

Ah ok, you've been watching the vod. I've been looking at the demo.

And I've figured out the inital 10 sec delay by now. He picked up mh at 1:14, which made it respawn at 49. And ra was due at 1:23, when he arrived, to respawn at 48. That's why the delay, which still seems excessive though.

But then, look what happened after that. He finally gets his first frag, then goes to ra and stands there for again 10secs waiting for it to spawn. Know what rapha did in that time? Respawned, took lg and ya then came to attack first ra and drop down to mh and further attack, which is when that mess happened. Again, 10 secs wasted where he could have made an offensive move or at least be looking for rapha's position.

Regarding the the offense, I'd say that's the style he's been leaning to during all his q3 time. While in ql an offensive gameplay seems to fail, likely due to those powerful defensive rockets, the resulting virtual impossibility to chase and the time limit. And what we've seen cooller exercising in this tournament is specifically an adaptation to rapha's defensive game. Where cooller's been checking most of all how well defense versus defense works in ql.

And it turned out to work great except the final, where he didn't find the right balance. At that point just expecting "the frags coming to you" didn't work out, likely due also because it's been dm6. Which does well benefit from some more aggression than ztn for example.

Either way, I expect him to learn from that. He's sure shown especially this time around that he can adapt and make progress. Some more practice in that direction, and who knows how the turnout will look like next time around.

Yep, going straight for the RA after the 1:0 at the shards might indeed have been a slight mistake.
Instead, he could have gone up to RL, look for a rail shot to YA and still get in position for the RA in time.

However, I don't really see the point in discussing all the "ifs" and "could haves", because in the end, the whole game came down to a few clutch and deciding moments that could have gone either wey, like the fight at MH cooller won with 28 HP or the direct rocket he ate standing at LG and peaking at MH which enabled Rapha to make his first frag or the LG vs LG fight at RA which cooller picked 3 seconds too late or ...

Well, he should have checked ra first to hear if rapha spawned on the bridge. Then go to the doorway overlooking ma and ra, thus covering both. Then maybe gone up the jump pad to prevent rapha from going from ya to rl. And would have seen rapha dropping down from ya, if he still should have chosen to do so. And maybe landed a rail on the way. Either way, rapha wouldn't have surprised him the way he did.

And the point was to realize that cooller made mistakes he doesn't usually make. All of his own, in addition to those which might have been forced on him.

"Then maybe gone up the jump pad to prevent rapha from going from ya to rl."

Sorry, but this is ridiculous. By now, rapha could already have been sitting at RL for a couple of seconds and cooller is supposed to go up the jump pad with 100/50? ;)

Ye, maybe. Not sure about the precise timing and rapha's spawn point right now.

Because rapha did show up only after cooller waiting for 10 secs at ra, where rapha himself only went for lg and ya before and then headed straight to ra. So there has been time, I'd just have to check again how much cooller could have been aware of that.

What cooller could have done though instead of just waiting for ra to spawn is taking a peak through the doorway at plasma. That would have given him the rail shot at least in that particular situation. And if rapha had went top along rl or bottom along sg, he still would have heard it and could have defended ra.

Whichever way you turn it, just waiting 10 seconds on ra knowing that rapha will spawn, take ya and possibly attack without taking any proactive measure whatsoever himself doesn't cut.

those 3 rocket misses at mega pit was the beginning of the end :)

Totally. The confusion having been initiated by the 10 second sitting duck exercise at ra and having himself surprised that much.

Mistiming a YA (wtf!?) is a big mistake?

in this case: yes.

did you even watch the game?

Of course not.

esr cooller fans, fuckin incredible.

are u really propositioning that cooller lost because he was nervous?

I hear a new excuse every day.

It's hard for some to admit rapha was the better player; if it's not being unlucky it's rapha being lucky. If it's not telefrag it's +back.
and if all else fails, well then QL is a boring and crap game.

rapha could teach them a thing or two, like being modest.
if rapha loses a map he admit he wasn't good enough and gives props to his enemy for playing better.

I haven't heard that yet from any cooller fan.

you only haven't heard that because you seem to a have a very selective perception.

or maybe I just haven't read it anywhere. Not saying it isn't there, but I have yet to see it.

Rapha was better in that game.

mb more lucky?

not mutually exclusive.

they has same skill right now, only few lucky moments can rule that duel.

You make your own luck.

Rapha was better in that game.

ffs.. u dont understand me.. cooller was better on the group stage, so what? he was strongeer? i guess not. and same situation in finals.

Doesn't make it lucky either way.

how u can call it? rapha is better?

In that game, yes.

Rapha was better in that game.

Rapha was better in that game.

Visibly so. Specifically after the break. Don't tell me it did escape you.

His rockets were terrible in the final, for whatever reason they were missing left, right and centre.

don't blame cooller, it was rapha's fault :/

?

He played rapha

Yes?

Keep trying.

I don't think you try hard enough.

But how about; rapha dodged better and pushing cooller into making mistakes?

Point taken or shall we continue?

for whatever reason

Apparently you are illiterate.

Nah, you're just trying to make arguments with people you assume are obsessed with cooller.

try sticking to the initial topic instead of weary around bringing in stuff that has nothing to do with cooller or rapha.

I pointed out what most likely is the reason cooller played the way he did.

I can also see this is something that is very hard for you to digest.

And yes, you are obsessed with cooller.

The "most likely reason" isn't that rapha caused him to miss all those rockets, it's a plethora of reasons, which naturally includes rapha.

The "initial topic" wasn't about blaming anybody or even explaining why and the reasons they were are irrelevant.

I know you think I'm obsessed with cooller, that's why you replied to the comment in the first place, believing I was making an excuse for cooller.

ok, sure why not, Mr. "cooller best player ever" :)

Where is your Cooller God now?

You people really do have some crazy distorted view of my opinions...

Haha , I was just kidding. :D

He doesn't blame Cooller, he blames rockets

so it's the rockets fault now?

That's one I haven't heard yet... very creative.

cooller had condensation on his monitor screen

And also don't forget that sun radiation interfered with the sensor on his mouse.

oh yes i thought everyone already knew that

rapha? who?

some random USA nub

some USA nub who just beat everyone

never heard of him

=)

i dont get it why was cooller positioning himself exactly on the ra instead of camping the stairs, as all players do. rapha owned him with 10 rockets each and every time upon ra spawn.

Yeah. He had no patience at all and jumped on to ra way too early instead of lurking as usual covered under the bridge. And once the rockets came in, his dodging failed him just the same. Tragedy.

Is it just me or was this more about Rapha fulfilling a dream of playing Cooller in finals for a championship world title?

Pretty sure it made it 10x sweeter for Rapha than playing Cypher/Av3k.

cooller would have won if it was 15 min matches

Yes, and 5 years ago.

and now too lawl
rapha was just more lucky in finals, cooller in group stage, rapha is not so strong, and not stronger than cooller.

difference is, rapha makes no mistakes. cooller does.

in group stage rapha makes mistakes, cooller not =) and so what? ;D

not really. maybe one jump at gl that made him easy to rail.

but it was fail :P nope, epic fail ^^

thats 1. cooller had like 10.

aha! So you're saying that Rapha barely beat cooller EVEN THOUGH COOLLER MAKES LIKE 10 MORE MISTAKES. So clearly cooller is the better player, since we don't count actual performance but substitute wishful thinking instead.

So you're saying that Rapha beat cooller

yes

if he was better, he would have won. but rapha is better. so he wins.

tbh i feel sorry for you.

Holy crap, i thought i went far enough with imitating cooller fanboys, but clearly i wasn't being ridiculous enough,

fuck off you eventual sarcasm users!

making or not making mistakes depends very much on skill, don't you think?

Big fricking DUH http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1850653#pid1850653


I really don't blame you or Lethe though, it's a lot more telling about cooller fanboys that you guys thought that

since we don't count actual performance but substitute wishful thinking instead

could be something a fanboy would say.

It's not genuine?

Well, the statement itself is, but not uttered by a fanboy. I will edit for your reading pleasure :)

thanks!

You are welcome!

open your eyes, there are not 1 mistake. failed rj, and many more, looks like u are just raphas fanboy, and thats it.

1. i'm just stating the fact
2. you're probably here for less than a month

Registered: 18 Mar 2006

gimme more facts raphas fan :P

whenever the "rapha's fan" pops up, it shows how you know nothing about me.

sad part is, you're laughing yourself.

i'm not laughing, i'm said true things, but u said "rapha is better" u are wrong, he is human and he may do some mistakes, and he done it, not 1-2...

so cooller is better than rapha?

they has same skill :O

so rapha is lucky to win all international ql events?

we spoked about Extreme Masters 4, or u dumb?

i'm done with you and your broken thoughts

lol ok

I wanted to see a Cypher - Cooller final, but Rapha deserves all respect. Great player, great guy.

Cooller was my fav player because of his style of play. Very smart with a cool head to use logic and tactics to win. However, he hasn't been in form since he started quakelive.
He makes a lot of stupid mistakes and wrong plays... This tournament he was going really well all until the last dm6 game with Rapha, then he fucked up all over again.

My new favorite player is now Rapha, I can clearly see his thinking and motivations for doing certain things in game, and he nearly never fucks up unless being out-thought or out-aimed.

Really solid, smart player.

1. Rapha
2. Cooller (unless in form, then unbeatable)
3. Cypher

He's in form and probably better than ever. The games vs Av3k were crazy... classic Cooller playing. He got 1 frag on t7, is like "that's enough for me", and +backs for 7 minutes until he gets another opening to seal it. It's exactly like those ztn games from years ago where he was just impossible to track down in the finals minutes. Cooller played great and can beat anyone in the world, doesn't take away from the fact (adds to it really) Rapha was able to pull through in the finals.

ESWC 2k3 vs zero4 £££

What you say doesn't make any sense. Especially the classic q3 cooller ztn game meant trying to run as many items as possible for as long as possible, with lots of action happening on the way. Controlling ra and mh together, possibly with at least one ya on top.

Which you just can't do on t7, where the vast majority of the time it'll boil down to one party getting mh and ya, then attacking ra/ya and vice versa.

In one instance you're right though, he did pull a mild "rapha" on avek there, by not hunting for full item control for about 4 minutes on t7. Which is exactly not what he used to do in q3.

Sorry x1138 but you are the most retarded person posting on esr after the finals. What the fuck are you bitching about? What new excuses? We just talking about the game and the key moments of it. 99% of the users accepted that rapha was better. NOBODY except trolls saying he was lucky Cooller was unlucky etc. so stop your shit pls! You are much more stupid than any of the Cooller fanboys.

considering it's on shitty monitors

so i guess rapha donated $10k to local church?

At least in that way there wouldnt be any taxes :p

Rapha was best when it mattered.
Was nice to see cooller play the finals again too, its been a while, but Rapha deserved the win.

cinderella story never happened in the history of quake, anyway.

let me fix this for you:

never happened YET.

wat

old champions never win again.

zero4 was always 1 frag behind (2003 cooller, 2008 cypher) or couldn't pull a full comeback (qcon 2k4)

fatal1ty had the first bo3 vs toxic, lost the second (quake4)

cooller was kinda close now, but still lost and played a bad dm6 game.


never happened.

Those would be "comeback" stories, not a "Cinderella" story. nb-dethstalker at RazerCPL or Killer at ESWC 2008 would be examples of a Cinderella story.

its not the same?

btw who is dethstalker and what did killsen (killer?) do in 2008? they didn't win?

Ye, details gogo.

A Cinderella story involves an unknown player or severe underdog progressing much farther into a tournament than reasonably expected. The concept is similar to that of a "dark horse." Comeback stories, however, are just that; a previously successful player (fatality, ZeRo4, Cooller, blue, et al) goes on hiatus and attempts a return to prominence.

nb-dethstalker was a player in the US who had never had an opportunity to compete online via broadband. He practiced solely via demo viewing and playing against bots, yet managed fourth place at RazerCPL in 2000. In 2008, I doubt more than but a few nationalists predicted Killer to place so well at the ESWC finals. These are examples of Cinderella stories.

hm.

ok, we have different definitions of "cinderella stories", for some reason mine involved a comeback/underdog situation

but i see what you mean

Think of the original Cinderella story. Despite being relegated to the position, the heroine was a "common" cleaning girl who "surprisingly" married the prince in the end. She was not a princess who fell and later returned to grace.

......or IS SHE?







:P

Never say never!

old champions never win again.

you mean like czm?

when was czm a duel champion before 2004?

well he's the only one who have been absent for a year and manage to comeback and take a title.

when was czm a duel champion before 2004?

What has that got to do with anything? He managed to comeback after 2004 and take cpl 2006, so your point is not valid.
And btw, he took ggl2003 also.

well he's the only one who have been absent for a year and manage to comeback and take a title.

don't make a fool out of yourself by stating facts that aren't true. or do it, who cares.

also, ggl whatever is a crap irrelevant tournament that noone cared about.

ok, perhapse I'm wrong, but who then other than czm has been absent for a whole year and managed to come back like that?

qcon 2003 3rd place
eswc 2004 2nd place, undefeated
qcon 2004 winner
eswc 2005 2nd place
cpl 2006 winner

when exactly did he quit in between?

he quit after 2006. came back in 2008. and we all know how that turned out for him.

dood, he quit after eswc2005, he came back in cpl2006. Thats over a year, eswc are played in the summer, cpl2006 which he won was in late december.

comprende?

thats a quit? a year? 2nd place then 1st place? and you have a list of days he did and didn't play during that period?

what are you, retarded?

how about z4 between 2004 and 2008?

if you can't participate in a discussion without the trash talk makes you look dumb, honest.

but if you can dig up a player who was absent for a year and took home a tournament, please do. Like I said I might be wrong, but everybody knows czm didn't play after eswc2005, your lack of knowledge is quite entertaining.

And I will certainly call that a quit, his absent is actually more than cooller absent from gaming.

cooller was kinda close now, but still lost and played a bad dm6 game.

So that's a close comeback, playing pretty much every tournament for the past 2 years? I think you need to google the word 'comeback'.

And you call an absent of 1 year nothing? Stop making a fool of yourself... or please do :/

dude just do yourself a favor and stay away from "quake" facts.

do you even know when cooller started with quakelive? playing pretty much every tournament? you do drugs?

when you stop acting like a retard, i promise i'll stop calling you a retard.

lol, you are hilarious and a complete moron. start counting all the tournaments cooller played in starting with 2008.

You have still not managed to dig up any player that came close to what czm achieved.

but continue to derail from you initial topic, because you know you are fighting a losing battle.

just let it go already.

well if you want to look silly, i'm not stopping you.

why don' you list the tournaments between 2005 and 2006 which czm missed in his RETIREMENT, while others played it?


go.

I can name cpl 2006; nordic, australia, italy, brazil, singapore.
Dallas was won by czm.

Yeah?
That's just 5.

finals, gimp. FINALS.

btw, try again with brazil and australia.


did my research? you're all over the place man, LMAO

You have still not managed to dig up any player that came close to what czm achieved.

zero4 played the quakelive final in 2008 quakecon.

did he win? No, cypher did. so you fail again.

finals after 4 years of inactivity? t4 by 1 frag, wow.

or czm winning after one year of noone playing the game?

this is becoming more and more painful for you mate.

see how much better it would have been for you if you managed to stfu in the first place?

try to learn something for the future.

Maybe do your research instead of arguing for sake of argument.

What a dumb fuck you are.

Well done tripping on your own grenades.

Twat.

tripping on my own grenades?

gotta love when someone pulls a copy-pasted troll expression. means you're well used to getting slammed online, aren't you?

You are quite pathetic, dude.

Still not managed to proved me wrong about czm... and we've just been at it for like 3 days lol.

maybe we shall start from scratch?

old champions never win again

czm won quakecon in 2004, he took cpl2006. Now, the question still is; who else did take home a championship after being away?

You still can't dig up that player, but just disagree with me on this for the sake of having a different opinion.

You obviously are a fool.

If there was a player, I'm sure by now you would have mentioned it.

finals after 4 years of inactivity? t4 by 1 frag, wow.

or czm winning after one year of noone playing the game?

You started saying 'old champions never win again', he didn't win. Hello? What the hell is you problem?
No one paying the game? Cooller still played, ie Asus spring.

I've proven your staement false, but you continue to nag about this.

Sad, man. Really sad. You need to get out more.

tata.

You are quite pathetic, dude.

sorry, i physically can't take an insult from someone as low as you. it's not possible.

czm won quakecon in 2004, he took cpl2006. Now, the question still is; who else did take home a championship after being away?You still can't dig up that player, but just disagree with me on this for the sake of having a different opinion. You obviously are a fool bla bla. If there was a player, I'm sure by now you would have mentioned it.

this is my favorite part. after saying that old champions never win again, which they dont, you ask ME to name someone that MANAGED to do it. and you still manage to call ME stupid. thats hilarious.

i'm always having trouble getting extremely low to a level of the guys like you so you can understand me. you're pretty much one of the most retarded guys that i've ever seen on esr, and you're here since like...december? thats impressive.

old champions never win again. 5 words, and you still can't grasp the meaning of it. now i'll write it again, as simple as i can.

1st place.
2nd place.
1st place.

"OLD CHAMPIONS" =/= "3 YEARS IN A ROW". See, coming back from being 2nd in 2005 to being first in 2006 isn't really a COMEBACK. cause NOONE quit the game. Cause there were no tournaments. No ESWC. No Quakecon. Nothing. Too hard for you? Fuck, what can we do. Who attended singapore besides jibo? dkt? awesome.

Italy? Again Jibo. And fox, who didn't even play the finals. But sorry, that's something you were supposed to know yourself. Or you think cooller was there? whatever.

do you know WHEN was czm an old champion? In 2008.

But i have like half an hour left before i leave, so i'll make you look silly again, cause you really want to look like an idiot. And i make your wishes come true. That's how good i am. Watch this. Your own quote, which is your biggest enemy here man:

Cooller Did Play Quake in 2006? RIGHT. But once again sadly for you it was...


...quake4.

See? Again you do it. Pulling half-checked facts always bury you, but you do it anyway. Dunno why, you're self-destructive, whatever. You probably cut yourself in your spare time with some Tokyo Hotel bullshit.

cpl brazil 2006? australia 2006? trinidad and tobago maybe? south pole? you might as well punch yourself in the face, it's the same result.

I'm actually outside too much tbh, but this bit of time i'm home i spend discussing things with half brained retards like yourself. thats a waste of time. i bet my grandmother could pull more accurate arguments about quake than you.

There are so many ways to from here, but I'll start with 'my biggest enemy'...

Cooller Did Play Quake in 2006? RIGHT. But once again sadly for you it was...

...quake4

First thing that's interesting is how you try to derail from the topic. So it was quake4? Big deal. He wasn't absent from gaming. Besides, QL is played now and to my knowledge there hasn't been any other champion but rapha in that game(might add cypher too then as he won qc2008). But I guess with all the criterias you managed to dig up after days of bashing, we won't see an OLD champion before 2016.

See, coming back from being 2nd in 2005 to being first in 2006 isn't really a COMEBACK. cause NOONE quit the game. Cause there were no tournaments. No ESWC. No Quakecon. Nothing.

What on earth are you talking about? It's only a comeback if someone quits? Well, he did! He chooses to come back after 18months and also managed to win it. Certainly qualifies as a comeback. The game was declared dead after eswc 2005. That's right, dead. That's why there wasn't any tournaments. And if you wondering what czm did between eswc2005 and cpl2006, read:
http://www.ggl.com/?controller=News&id=43...od=article

czm played q3 from the start, the game dies after eswc2005,he is absent from the game for 18months, wins the biggest q3 tournament of the year. And that is not considered a comeback to you? Quite funny man, as everybody else recognizes this as such.

So I guess also you wouldn't consider cooller an old champion coming back if he had won in 2008? I mean your definition of an old champion is 8 years right? He also wouldn't have qualified in dubai... oh wait he wouldn't have qualified as an old champ if he'd won IEM WC as it hasn't been 8 years already since qlan 2002.

I'll just leave you with this ....

well he's the only one who have been absent for a year and manage to comeback and take a title.

don't make a fool out of yourself by stating facts that aren't true.

If you read the link I posted you might learn something. who's the fool?

Q.E.D.

so to summarize:

cooller played in quake3 in 2006.
- no he didn't.

ok i suck, but he played q4, its the same.
- yes you do, and no, it isn't.

czm was an old champion in 2006.
- no he wasn't. he was at his best from 2k4 to 2k6, 3 finals, 2 wins, and the one he did lose was terribly close. he was an OLD champion in 2008. not before. and he got owned.

cpl had tournaments in australia and brazil.
- lolwut?

the stops it did have in 2006 were attended by czm's rivals.
- no they weren't. except for jibo maybe.


following your retarded analogy, rapha was an old champion @ the finals cause he lost to dahang in edmonton. so an old champion DOES WIN!

cheers. i'm done with you. from now on i'll just link you to your nonsense above ^^ in case of reply.

I can see you've blown this whole topic out of proportions.

You have a different view of what qualifies as a comeback and what's an old champion. I claimed that two and a half years is enough to consider a player an old champion. You disagree. That's fine.

But it's clear that this isn't about disagreeing, it's personal.

I'll leave it at that.

haha even in this post you make an excuse for cooller. "played a bad dm6 game"

really? no player has ever played a bad game? if cooller wins its just him playing good? really?!? in the heat of the moment people are prone to mistakes. No need to throw in that he had a bad game for no reason. Tbh he played a really good dm6 game but made a few costly mistakes.

^^ no point there tbh

Ok...all you "pro-wannabies-cooller-fan-boyz...blabla" i completly agree with lethe since he's the only one whos using brain on this forum, he's telling how it is, not how it would be if cooller was the "smartest-aimwhore" on this fucking planet(which he's not..he's making to much mistakes vs. non-agressive players..it's just like toxjq said: you can't rush cooller, you just have to play slow and get the first frag..make him rush you, since his aim is not top of the top. and that's exactly what rapha did and since cooller is not "cool", he gets angry pretty quick and starts blaming luck for all his stupid moves he lost).
i personaly believe that cypher is by far the best player now..he has best combat skills, weapon handling and movement but rapha beat him fair and square..rapha tried to go vs. cypher with raw aim and he lost on dm13 and got raped on ztn but then he started to play his game and he won.(it's funny how destruct said he would bet on rapha on ztn...i mean how can you bet vs cypher on that map???blind much destruct??never seen any demo of cypher raping people on ztn??)
Anybody watched asus where cooller got raped by cypher? if cypher came to the finals it would be a 3:0 vs cooller but he didn't!!! so get the fuck over this shit! cypher is the best player skill-wise, rapha knows how to win, even tho he wins with low scores..he still wins!! AND FOR FUCK'S SAKE STOP WORSHIPING COOLLER!!!

cooller still best

agreed

blind fanboys just can't see this fact

nah he still suck lol

sounds like you're worshiping cypher so you are no better or worse than those cooller idiots.