yes we all know aerowalk is the best map there ever were for quake, but unfortunately the idiots over at ID decided it's not suitable for QL.

and fuck off with the "they don't have permission" bullshit, they could if they wanted to.

Yes, clearly you know all of the inner workings of ID and what they've tried and who they're talking to.

id suck moneydick

\o/

shut up dickface

Oh you know exactly what you're talking about don't you.

i know enough thanks

but unfortunately the idiots over at ID decided it's not suitable for QL.

Uh huh...

as somebody already mentioned, sucking ID ass isn't going to get you a job

as already stated, i know enough, im sure the all-knowing gillz with all your computer-related classes knows everything going on though.

If I was showing tendencies that makes it seem like I want a job at ID, then that thought would be justified.

I didn't say I knew more than you, or equal, I'm simply pointing out the fact that you acting like you know what goes on at ID when you don't even work there, is horribly stupid.

Did the thought of getting banned from QL for talking about breaking the ToS scare you this much?

When did I talk about breaking the ToS?

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1829371#pid1829371

Forget so soon?

I had a feeling it was regarding that post.

Regardless, they won't ban me until I've actually done something to break the ToS. I can talk all day about me planning to break it, but the community managers know enough to understand that even if I were to break the ToS in that aspect, it's not to HARM ID software, or QL. As my post explains, it was purely for test purposes, much like someone experimenting for personal information.

Until I actually break them, there's no reason for me to be banned.

So no, I'm not scared. Not in the least. This entire website could report me, I still won't be scared. I haven't broken any rules.

You can't justify what you believe to be harmless, as you most specifically stated your intent to breach the rules of the ToS. You don't actually have to break a rule, as they reserve the right to ban you for ANY reason.

Don't worry about it, though. They're probably as good at banning as they are at making a game.

BOLD IS FUCKING COOL

you're a one-map-wonder :D

quake 1's dm6 please

there's loads of good 1v1 quake1 maps that never got a good chance :(

dm6 would be very nice, they could even redesign some of the others to make them work, such as dm4 (need to be made larger, extra room maybe) However, dm2 wouldn't work, it's too linear. Of course dm3 would be excellent for tdm.

I'm not sure dm4 would work in quakelive.

Never liked the dead end on the map anyway.
And the deep lava:P

dm2 and dm4 ain't very good duel maps in qw imo. There is quite a lot of discussion about dm2 as a duel map in qw atm.
dm4 is weird, but certainly not a top 1n1 map so don't introduce it in QL.

dm6 might be cool, but i'm not sure if it will work in QL. Would certainly be interesting to try out tho!

nooooo. dm6 is a terrible map. Its way too simple and you can just camp the gl area if you have ra control. I mean you can't have a map like this in 2010 you just can't. dm2 dm4 and dm6 simply suck, unfortuantely there are too many oldskool retards who only play those maps.

All 3 maps are flawed but cbf explaining why.

Camping the GL won't work in QL tho. Since the ra is much more powerful in qw then in QL.
And the mh and ya will be on the otherside which will make the otherside quite a lot more powerful, which is totally the opposite in qw.

Everyone that hated hub got together and pooled together their cash to pay off id not to include it. Because it's shit.

I heard walter broke the walls with all his hacking.

My understanding is that there are legal issues about distributing maps. With the past quakes, the community was handling the servers and the distribution of the maps, so there was no way one could sue ID Software.

With QL they have to be extra careful on what they put in the game. If somebody shows up on day saying his map/textures set was stolen and used for a map that is now in QL, there could be a lawsuit which could potentially shut down the game for the time of the trial.

The ztn case shows that it is possible to include external map, but apparently it requires extensive work from both ID Software and the mapper.

So, unless a legal solution that grants for the origin of the map content is found, the chances to have external maps are low.

I recall syncerror saying you could not patent the layout of a map.

Patents arent the problem - although I think you possibly could get a design patent on a map (you can get design patents on things like font designs and icons, for example). Patents take many years to be granted, and a lot of money invested, so I doubt anyone ever has or will attempt it.

Copyright is the issue, and copyright automatically applies to any applicable thing when someone creates it without any kind of registration or cost - simply the act of creating something gives you protection under copyright law from someone copying that thing. Whether a map file is considered as something that is protected under copyright law is almost certainly not tested in a court and that is the only definitive answer, but I imagine id will have paid their lawyers for advice on this. However, computer software is considered as a "litterary work" in the context of copyright law, and this catch-all class quite probably covers maps too. Copyright also applies to "artistic works" which equally could cover maps.

Either way, as a company trying to make money of this, I wouldn't want to trust that it isn't covered without consulting a lawyer first, and if they say it probably is covered, then there's not a lot you can do without getting the original author(s) to agree to a licence that permits you to distribute it.

(hmm, seems I have learnt something on the 6 million courses on IP law I seem to have to do....)

there's not a lot you can do without getting the original author(s) to agree to a licence that permits you to distribute it.

With all the problems related to find this author and make sure he really is the author.

Aha, well yeah if you put it like that, I wouldn't risk it myself.

Yep, me neither.

Certainly the company I work for wouldn't either - their stock answer to anything like this is "if there is any doubt, contact legal and get advice". That advice usually takes months, too.

It's been what, around 2 years since the qlive project started? They have no system (either working or in concept) in place to acquire custom content. That's sad if they figured the old q3a maps along with the occasional TA map would work. And kind of arrogant at the same time. Having a solid plan to get 3rd party maps should've been one of, if not the top thing on their list when this project began. I find it hard to believe that "legal issues" are taking this long to sort out.

well they never intended this game to be the hardcore community game (for that there was q3). This is probably a mistake, but explains why these kind of issues were not thought at the beginning.

Bullshit excuses.

Honestly, who did they think this would appeal to other than the hardcore Q3 community and ex-hardcore Q3 community?

If they were aiming for something especially more then it's an even bigger fuck up.

In a narrow view, all the love from the hardcore community will not play their bills. You have to have faith to believe in the growth of e-sports up to the point that something tangible gets back to the game developer. And when you run a company you tend not to use faith, but just look at facts. The only two facts about the hardcore community are that it has no economical value and that so far it lived on its own. So why considering it in the first place?

Huh?

Hardcore isn't the same as e-Sports. The mass majority of people playing QL are hardcore Quake/DM players or ex-hardcore Quake/DM players who returned for QL.

If they've been chasing the non-hardcore crowd then they've failed on an epic level since the game is not even remotely suitable for that audience and no change/addition has been added that specifically appeals to this crowd.

If they've been chasing the non-hardcore crowd then they've failed on an epic level since the game is not even remotely suitable for that audience and no change/addition has been added that specifically appeals to this crowd.

Well, this might actually be the truth. If I recall what Carmac (John) was saying at the begginning the goals with this project were:

- Testing/utilizing a small dev group within ID while expanding for Rage.
- Improve the experience for the casual gamer addressing quake3.
- Test the in-game ads paradigm.

No reference to the hardcore community were made.

Although I think they did a fairly good job with the second point, you might be right that the game is still too hard for the casual gamer. I cannot comment on point one, but we all know point three failed.

So, overall, I'm not that surprised if ID Software is not really investing too much on this project, also considering they are in full production for Rage.

Had quake live seen a lot of fresh players things might be different now, but with the current state one should be happy with what we get.

You're right about Carmac but he's not in charge and they only seem to say it now when defending themselves for doing something stupid ("It's not for you, it's for the casual!").

I don't see how they have improved the experience for the casual gamer if the game is still too difficult for them, they've made the installation process mostly easier but that's a different matter if you ask me.

I'm not aware of any change in their priorities. The only things I saw were some features that the hardcore community wanted which were added at a certain point, but I would not consider this a proof that the project goals did change.

I understand that when one plays and spectates a game, he feel like he is the intended audience, but that's rather wishful thinking than reality.

I might be wrong, but to my eyes there are no excuses. Just different perspectives, and a lot of emotions on our part.

They don't have any goals for QL :)

with current spawnsystem it could be rly epic, i mean we could see some sick numbers in scoresheet :D

Damn, we got fucked over.

First GTV, and now aerowalk. Why do we keep playing/ speccing QL!? :(

Big unhappy smiley face

I keep asking myself that as well :/


but i just won an 800€ CPU so whatever

Admirable moral integrity :p

GJ on the CPU, to bad you're still ugly.

I didn't know they added cg_autowinifsexy

I like the stream and thought aero was rubbish soooo, yeah why do you keep playing?

Actually i dont play. So HA! Butttttttttttttttttttttttttt, ill keep speccing my FREE premium account. You know its free cause im cool

Streams >> GTV

LOL UR STUPID

coz it's fun? :/

They should listen to the pro players of the ql scene..and bring alot more old school maps back! they got ztn for us...so why not hub?

because they r americans.. end of discussion

i have two words for you:
AERO
WALK

thats 8 words u chump.

i think you misunderstood, two words by 8 _LETTERS_

Your post was 8 words.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_(alphabet)

*facepalm*

1I 2have 3two 4words 5for 6you:
7AERO
8WALK

9DERP

omg, how nerd. congratulations you guys, you guys are the nerd champions!

rofl

what a nerd, whining about nerds on the internet

holy shit.. a nordic icebear calling me a nerd hahaha. det vär dum nerd råtta!

hahahhaha

http://www.naointendo.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Obama.jpg

nordic icebears are awesome, you are failing pretty hard here..

no way, tillbaka till din igloo!

You must have a strong love for nordic countries if you bothered enough to learn a little of the language. I'm not Swedish, tho.

of course you are not swedish, but you understand it... and thats enough :)

pukka3 ftw !

I hope there is a light in tunnel for hub in QL. They didn't say literally NO, did they? Or have I missed something?

It is awesome map, best ever in terms of flow and action :}

test_bigbox.

Fuck off.

We already have 3 of 5 maps from the ancient mappool and new maps are needed in order to keep QL alive, somewhat.
Are you guys just fucking lazy to learn t7 and t9 ?

t7 is shit. :(

t9 = teh uber poonage, teh best map. t7 = even worse than dm6

They're both shit. :(

lies t9 rules. lots of great games on there so far.
Players seem to like it... t7 tho....

Double lies. :P
The good games were/are b/c of who's playing, not b/c of the map, imo.

lies.

t9 is pretty noob-friendly and produces good games, as opposed to t7, which is just getting stuck on every fucking corner.

t9 is pretty noob-friendly, as opposed to t7.

Lies again!
The total use and abuse of the teles on t9 is what destroys it for me.
But t7 has that super shitty layout.
Hence my original statement of "They're both shit." :)

t7 layout is nice, cuz it's different, there's quite a lot of wall clipping, it's one of the map that requires the most skill concerning movements. It's not easy like t9.

I was referring specifically to the water areas and the odd pieces of tile or w/e around the RA and lower YA.
Also, I'm not a huge fan of the shoot-thru walkways.

no, they're both trash and you're still an idiot. :|

What's to learn about T7?

- Spawn
- Take usual items
- Kill guy
- Guy spawns next to RA whilst you collect mega
- Kill guy
- Guy spawns next to RA
- Kill guy at RA
- Guy spawns next to mega


¬¬

My point was that its time to move on.

Have a map rotation, or at least more maps to choose from, t7 and t9 may not be they most awesome maps in existence, but are fun to watch, because they are new and players can be more creative on them, its not a matter of motoric/robotic style as on the old maps.

ur point is invalid (c) gillz.

seriously tho i would rather have hub than a semi-decent new map. hub was the only map on which you could have fun every time you played, irrespective of opponents game style etc. i dont think any other map could do that.

Don't get me wrong, I agree. T9 is an example of a decent map. It's got mixed reactions to it (some love it, some hate it), but it's still at heart a decent Quake duel map.

T7 just kinda... blows. I'd much rather see t6 and t4 in the pool...

then you didnt learn anything but keep playing it wrong. t7 plays really well if you get the hang of the map. its just not so easy to get into and thats while t9 is played way more often :(

would rather have pukka than hub

Want hub :(

AEROWALKKKKKKKKKK!

Obviously id asked cooller, and he said no hub, and remove t4 from the map pool.

ITT: People who think they know how to run a business.

they're not going to hire you shitdick so try shutting the fuck up

Not trying to get a job there :D

oh c'mon, sucking all those esports dicks, you have to be going somewhere

ITT: gillz the fucking moron

random pakistani hate, never seen that before.

yep, but you're still fugly.

and retarded.

why does not id hold a mapping contest like they did for quake 4, few good maps did come out of that I remember.

I agree. ID definitely needs to do that. We could get new fresh maps without worry of copyright issues :D

diaf

I'm sure these things are in the pipe line. Could they have done more? Sure, but at the same time they have a really good, working product, they they have been supplying regular support to. Honestly I prefer quakelive over OSP and CPMA. The same people that are whining over maps in Quakelive are the same people that whined about pretty much everything else in every iteration of Quake there ever has been. We were not playing more maps in OSP or CPMA, but now since there is another person in control, we feel it's our right to demand things from them.

That said, some new maps would be a really welcome thing, but otherwise the game is great, I'm loving it.

Quake live is the most awesome thing that happened to quake in the recent years, but you have to agree it could have been way more awesome, too.

Best thing to happen? We lost almost all the new players who tried it, and the game itself didn't even create as much buzz as Q4 did. Sure, Q4 hurt the brand name, so many people didn't even give QL a chance, but QL is now doing the very same thing to any future Quake.

now > three years ago any way you put it.
I'm not even sure how it would be if it was the same model, but more work - it's entirely possible that it would've affected only the pro scene, possibly without great difference.

Go ahead and put it any way that makes now better than any time before now. Less players, hurt brand, and potential death of the franchise.

"We lost almost all the new players who tried it, and the game itself didn't even create as much buzz as Q4 did."

just curious, any source ?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want to know if you get some specific examples.

here, here, and here

ok thks

It's still not possible to see the number of "active" players though :(

It was possible at the earlier stage of the beta (middle of 2008), but it's not anymore since many months... I wonder why...

For example in a game like Heroes of Newerth, there's literally 35.000+ players online at almost any time of the night. And you can see it directly inside the game.

I wish there was such an option in QL...

But tbh i'm not that pessimistic, neither really optimistic. There are some good things in the game, it's still really playable and you can enjoy it, but imo the development is still kinda slow, and we "hardcore quake players" lack of visibility regarding the game success. I mean, ESL isn't the only thing you can base your opinion on to say that the game is a big success.

PMX anyone ? :D

Well yes, these trends only show searches. They are a good way to see just how active the game is with new players. You can use the trends website statistics to get direct QL stats, but there is no way to directly compare them to Q3/Q4/CPM/etc...

10 hours played:
126,933 accounts (10%)

24 hours played:
71,021 accounts (6%)

Play for 10 minutes every day completing one game for 28 days:
5875 accounts (1%)

When you take into consideration the prevalence of multiple accounts...

Play for 10 minutes every day completing one game for 28 days:
5875 accounts (1%)

that's not much :(

Very few people play a game 28 days in a row. 50% of the people in my friends list has completed 500 online matches, but only 13% has played 1 game each day in a 28 day period. Keep in mind that more than 50% of them have spent 100hours or more in QL which is quite a bit considering the stats were reset about 1 year ago.

yep quite a bit ;)

Yeah, thought I'd just throw that one in there too, the other are decent ways of looking at it though.

People are demanding, and rightfully so. Both OSP and CPMA were mods done by the community, for free. And both were good (especially cpma, lets not get into weapon balance talk, just remember how playing on ping 90 felt, physics also). Would you expect more from a company as big as ID is? Well, I would.

I remember all the discussions, where ID stuff assured the community its up to them how the game will look like and how much effort will be put into it. Two years later, theres a game somewhere between baseq and osp.. Its still a good game, but who can blame people for being angry - so much good things we were used to were taken away, for no reason. And the progress is just incredibly slow, if you dont take model skins as an actual update.

Though Im happy to see so many major tourneys again, I know that wouldnt be possible without QL.

stopped reading when u said u prefer ql to cpma.

We were not playing more maps in OSP or CPMA, but now since there is another person in control, we feel it's our right to demand things from them.

No, we demand more b/c at least the few maps that got played in OSP/CPMA were good. That, combined with the shitload of features id seems to have forgotten about or said 'fuck off' to, (eg. chat tokens, mvd, etc.) makes us rage.
Which is ironic since that's the name of their next big release, so maybe they just wanna get the name out.

Who knows, and at this point who cares.

/end drunken ramble

Unfortunately q4 sucked royal donkey balls, but yes, id should hold a mapping contest. Even better, they could commission known mappers like ztn to make new maps.

quake 4 was not as bad as people claim here, only problem was when it got playable/enjoyable it was too late.

Quake 2 took much longer to have a decent MP, but players weren't so anxious for whinning back then.

Well where Q2 was totally different to Q, Q4 was for all intents and purposes identical to Q3 on release just in a bad engine with less features etcetc.

That's because id sees Q3 has the near perfect formula.

They could have made Q4 more unique, but it would mean that id would need to spend years working on balancing the gameplay.

Sadly it took years for Q4 to become a decent game anyway because of how buggy it was.

Imo duel has a decent mappool, but tdm/ctf are depressing :/

i got a huge boner atm.

yeah, what we need is one more q3 map most q3 players played a few thousand matches on it already, so they can win against "qlive-only" players with astronomical scores =/

Gah! More Map-Whine!

*head explodes*

"Where is this map in the official mappool"

Not in it thank God. More new CTF maps before shitty old duel maps, ta.

yes because ctf is so huge and active, i sure hope they focus on that

Most active team mode in NA and Aus, dunno about the Euro scene but then again dont really care about international events all that much. Duel has a full map list with mostly new maps while CTF has 2 old maps, 1 decent new one (ctf7), 1 shit new one (ctf8) and one of the crappier threewave maps.

Plus meh at Duel.

.

i cunt believe you've done this.

a q3 player raping someone who doesnt know the map, yeah, thats what we need!

ffa? played with that hacked ql version that id kept banning people for?

check the banners at gl ;)
i'd be all for it ONLY if they implented the q3 spawnsystem though

if you mean the flags, the texture has the same name as in q3, so if you load the q3 map in ql you will see the ql flags

ah alright, that makes sense. cheers.

HELL YEAH!

.

u brumu avek voo and forever should play in 1 team and i would pay money to hear ur chat in vent :DDD

okay its not really a "hacked" version but you can/could spawn your own server http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1797883

and where did i say that you wanted to show off? besides that you obviously didnt, that was not my point at all, i was just saying that what we absolutely dont need is having more old maps.

but nice making conversation with you pal o0

.

from u? if only ragequit but even in that brumu is better than u.. sorry but u sux

How about you play walter, and post the demo on this site.

ok.. he can come to our "LAN" and play vs me

Incase it ever happens, let me know how the match goes. I'm sure you would be able to justify your claim that he "sux" though.

okei

I will never be able to say often enough how happy I am that hub hasn't been ported to QL. It was the most boring tournament map in history and, along with CPMA physics, was the main reason Q3 turned into a strategyless aimfest.

Good fucking riddance.

hub was never as much of an strategyless aimfest as dm6

Cooller disagrees.

Alltimes.

how do u know? u quit dm6

:/

As I don't like to play duels much, hub was my favorite fun map to play with my noob friends :P

DO WANT

This night I actually dreamt that id added hub. The internet went totaly bonkers and every ql server was full.

Oh how I wish it wouldn't had been just a dream...

After the 6 maps in 6 weeks release, if you had told me we wouldnt have another map for over 6 months of would of slapped you.