ESR - DFM Ejected From FD 2v2 Cup

<< Comment #1 @ 23:00 CST, 20 February 2009 >>

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By

oneroomdisco

Let the shit fest begin.

<< Comment #473 @ 15:01 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

erok - Reply to #1

just replying to 1st post so maybe more will see
http://www.razersupport.com/index.php?_m=tickets&_a=submit
^link to write razer about nomadic if anyone feels the need to like i did(get his ass fired or at least removed from community responsibilities...)

Edited by erok at 16:11 CST, 22 February 2009

<< Comment #485 @ 15:53 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (h-66-166-183-132.atlngahp.covad.net) - Reply to #473

kgb/walter vs gillz/nomadic

http://www.quakescene.com/demo/421

pretty much sums up it up

<< Comment #482 @ 15:43 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

{DFM} conundrum519 - Reply to #473

You've gotta be shitting me.

<< Comment #495 @ 16:48 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

clan519 - Reply to #473

that's kind of a dickish thing to do there broham.. i mean, if they feel kgb/walter cheated, and i think there is more than enough highly suspicious shooting with regards to players behind walls, given kgb and walters past record of cheating.. well, i'd stfu if i were you.

<< Comment #504 @ 18:40 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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erok - Reply to #495

Why? It's not like I complained in an unprofessional manner. I simply thought his being an admin and representative of Razer should have warranted much more unbiased opinion...Especially without giving any proof. Regardless of whether or not kgb/walter actually cheated, the manner in which Nomadic handled the situation was EXTREMELY childish and I think Razer deserves to know how their employees act...

Edited by erok at 18:43 CST, 22 February 2009

<< Comment #686 @ 08:11 CDT, 12 April 2009 >>

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By

Cloud - Reply to #504

who the fuck ever said or stated that they owe you or the public any proof in such a situation? Is it in the rule books?

this is a tourney ran by them with their money and prizes-- i wonder, do they get any money from you wasting time on GTV or whatever this was; they shouldn't need your shit

Edited by Cloud at 05:39 CDT, 13 April 2009

<< Comment #692 @ 17:05 CDT, 12 April 2009 >>

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erok - Reply to #686

Obviously tournaments with prizes should be handled in a certain manner. People generally don't like competing in tournaments with biased admins, that just kind of seems like common sense to me. Also, obviously the public's opinion in this manner DID mean something to them, because after the outrage expressed by the community they did indeed reverse their decision, and sent the prizes to kgb/walter.

<< Comment #693 @ 05:47 CDT, 13 April 2009 >>

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By

Cloud - Reply to #692

it "meant" something to them because you all are (really) ignorant bitches, and your sponsors are just part of your typical corporate america; they really care neither about you, your game, nor the integrity of it all-- just that you're 'happy', docile, and apathetic enough with them so they can keep taking advantage of your stupidity, and your money. Though its funny that they actually give a shit in these times to make a Speculative business decision "supporting" a game like quake and choosing to invest in it, only to have a bunch of stupid loser nerds rage.

But you still haven't shown me the fine print where it says they'd owe the public an "explanation", in such an event. In fact, i'm willing to bet that if someone even had the strange interest to make "fine print" for this, you'd see the opposite; something like "blah blah is subject to change, asswipe". Perhaps the players. Do they even owe them that? Did the players have to pay a fee to enter? Or was this all for free.

<< Comment #694 @ 14:45 CDT, 13 April 2009 >>

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erok - Reply to #693

ahahahaha. Yea clearly I don't understand corporate America at all. I know they don't personally give a shit, and it's all from business standpoint. But if they thought there was any potential of lost customers from this decision then it would need to be reversed. The only reason I cared enough was because they gave no proof at all. And no, there is no fine print saying they had to do anything, it was their tournament and they can run it however the fuck they want to. However, they are concerned enough for their reputation that they realize how the decision to withdraw the prizes from them seemed pretty retarded to most of the community, so they decided to reverse it.

edit: also you may want to read farther down this thread, a lot more is explained...specifically the razer employee who replied to my comment..

Edited by erok at 14:48 CDT, 13 April 2009

<< Comment #695 @ 15:46 CDT, 13 April 2009 >>

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Cloud - Reply to #694

whats so funny idiot

And no, there is no fine print saying they had to do anything, it was their tournament and they can run it however the fuck they want to. However, they are concerned enough for their reputation that they realize how the decision to withdraw the prizes from them seemed pretty retarded to most of the community, so they decided to reverse it.

yep; "concerned enough for their reputation" so that they can continue to take advantage of your stupidity. They don't care about anything else-- just your money. Nobody cares whether they cheated (however, comically in this case, least of all the community-- which is quite sad). If they did care more would have been done, considering the 4-2 decision in favor of it, including a top player's, after days of review (AND one of the negative votes being a casual vote by Syn-- who OUTSOURCED the job of review to said top player because he was constrained of time and couldn't even be at an internet-capable computer to oversee everything)-- instead of simply crumbling to the pressure of (supposed) "consumers". But still in the end, a corporate sponsor still seemed to care more about cheating than the community itself. That paragraph and everything above it proves my point

"edit": no one cares about razer employees

ps. nobody, including tournament administrators, owes you any "proof", either.

<< Comment #696 @ 17:03 CDT, 13 April 2009 >>

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erok - Reply to #695

Wow way to type so much and still say absolutely nothing. Of course they don't 'owe' anyone any proof, if they did then they would have provided it before making the decision in the first place. Also, Razer had NOTHING to do with the decision, however they had enough influence to reverse the decision after enough of the community bitched. I'm really failing to see what you're trying to get across here besides being mad at the community for having the decision reversed.

<< Comment #581 @ 06:45 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (proxy1.sun.ac.za) - Reply to #495

past history? care to elaborate?

<< Comment #637 @ 14:57 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

Razer|Mjolnir - Reply to #473

We appreciate your feedback in regards to the Frag Dominant Q3 tournament. While Razer is the title sponsor for this event, we are not the decision makers in regards to match rulings. Instead, these decisions are made by members of the Frag Dominant Quake 3 Cup Staff appointed by Frag Dominant and the tournament organizers. At the time of the vote for disqualification of team DaFoneMen (a vote that passed 4 to 2), one of the six admin seats was held by a Razer employee, Evan �Razer|Nomadic� Bradshaw. Mr. Bradshaw also participated in the tournament as a competitor.

We understand that Mr. Bradshaw�s participation in the tournament could be viewed as a conflict of interest with the voting process we will support any decision the Frag Dominant Quake 3 Cup Staff comes to regarding the disqualification of DaFoneMen and Mr. Bradshaw�s vote in this matter. All final game rulings are left up to the discretion of the Frag Dominant Quake 3 Cup Staff and tournament administrators without any recommendations or input from Razer.

We are proud to be a part of this tournament and have the utmost faith that that Frag Dominant Quake 3 Cup Staff will continue to run a well organized, fair, and professional event. Any further questions about the decisions in the tournament should be directed towards the Frag Dominant Tournament Staff.

<< Comment #638 @ 17:57 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

Syn- - Reply to #637

If this was true, then this fiasco would've never happened....

As tournament director, I stated before the vote several things. One of which was you have to be 100% sure there was cheating and two that the decision had to be unanimous to kick. It's already clear based on the fact that admins are changing their mind that they were not clear on #1 and I was told by Nomadic he was going to act on a majority, and would not heed my ruling. Again I thought I was tournament director and in charge of things such as this -- and Nomadic was just a sponsor rep + player -- but obviously that is not the case.

If you truly mean to avoid any additional interference then please pay prizes out based on final standings.

1.) kgb/walter
2.) griffin/bLt
3.) plague/whaz

(Evan has the address info for all those listed, and I would like confirmation privately either here or through email, [email protected], that prizes have been shipped)

I would've gladly replied privately, but no-one from Razer has contacted me about this. I've had OTHER gaming companies contact me regarding this fiasco, but not the lead sponsor. Actually, it's pretty nice to see others care about avoiding having this happen to anything they are involved in, for the good of the community.

Additionally, Frag Dominant have contacted me and have asked me to pass on they are in way endorsing the decision by Nomadic and were simply the organizer providing webspace and some connections to get game servers for the tournament.

Edited by Syn- at 17:59 CST, 25 February 2009

<< Comment #643 @ 19:30 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

Razer|Mjolnir - Reply to #638

We recognize that there is a conflict of interest with Nomadic being both an admin and a competitor and we will respect and support any decision that comes from the Q3 Cup Staff regarding the tournament's final outcome.

Our role in this event is to provide prizes and give the Quake community something to play for. Our company got its start within the Quake community and we want to see it thrive. We are happy to provide prizes to whomever the tournament admins deem are the final winners. Once that is decided, they will send me a list with the info and I will take care of it.

Syn, I will follow up with you via IRC or the phone so we can get the final details wrapped up. Thanks again for all your help in running this event.

Edited by Razer|Mjolnir at 19:39 CST, 25 February 2009

35%

<< Comment #646 @ 19:32 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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Nukm - Reply to #643

glad you are aware of the situation and trying solve it [+]

<< Comment #657 @ 12:22 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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By

judge717 - Reply to #643

Thanks, finally this drama event can be over

<< Comment #661 @ 18:12 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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By

Dird - Reply to #637

Mr Bradshaw is an idiot yank who is a part of that group of walter hating jews in the us scene. With his vote being replaced to a (non-idiot) european or someone like czm in the us then it would be a tie (3-3)

<< Comment #666 @ 19:02 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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By

Dird - Reply to #637

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1661589#pid1661589
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1661835#pid1661835

<< Comment #2 @ 23:03 CST, 20 February 2009 >>

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By

MrPibb

lol

<< Comment #3 @ 23:05 CST, 20 February 2009 >>

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By

harleyQUINN

whaaaaaaat.

<< Comment #4 @ 23:06 CST, 20 February 2009 >>

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By

somebodyshootme

Drama, gotta love it.

<< Comment #5 @ 23:08 CST, 20 February 2009 >>

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By

Venim

oh man

<< Comment #6 @ 23:21 CST, 20 February 2009 >>

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By

revoN

This resulted in an extensive and tireless review of the match from all points of view. The review process which took place most of this week was done so with special consideration placed towards any setting short of cheating that may have enabled these players to make the plays and shots that they did.

So basically all you did there was a witch hunt. Congrats

3%

<< Comment #7 @ 23:22 CST, 20 February 2009 >>

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By

wn

"circumstances of extreme susipcion and highly questionable play"

Are there any specific examples of this, or was it just a general bad feeling some of the staff had? Right now the explanation for why they were removed is pretty weak. In the games I watched, kgb didn't do anything different than what he did at Quakecon '08.

Put some video clips up like the euros 8)

Edited by whitename at 23:56 CST, 20 February 2009

<< Comment #23 @ 01:40 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (bas3-hamilton14-1167924095.dsl.bell.ca)

I watched some of their games, nothing looked like cheating...Lets see some videos, like highlights? Of them cheating...People are just Sad Panda that they got raped :'< ***** YOU CHANCE

<< Comment #8 @ 23:53 CST, 20 February 2009 >>

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By

tom

if you're talking about walter hacking im pretty sure he blindly ran past griffin at mega on osp6 it was hilarious.

<< Comment #35 @ 02:57 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

.syL - Reply to #8

on purpose of course, so not to arise suspicion!

<< Comment #43 @ 03:22 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

GreenBastard - Reply to #8

i don't think they cheated from what i saw in the vods but I don't like this argument on disproving the use of cheats

walter and kgb could be the best players in the world with all the cheats enabled on top of that but it still doesn't mean they would never make mistakes or dumb moves

<< Comment #81 @ 05:22 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

MarzenGold - Reply to #8

Can't find teh demo,linky if you don't mind please?

<< Comment #9 @ 00:45 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

koji

I watched the final via wheat's vidcast, and KGB/walter simply out played their opponents with better control/teamwork.

7%

<< Comment #55 @ 04:18 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #9

exactly
i watched both POV's, walter on gtv and kgb on demo
and the stream
blt/grif got outclassed, that's it

<< Comment #174 @ 11:12 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

mefajpE^ - Reply to #9

link to vods?

<< Comment #202 @ 12:39 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

kaliberr44 - Reply to #174

http://www.djwheat.tv/2009/02/16/fd-cq3-2v2-finals-audio-vod/

3%

<< Comment #11 @ 00:49 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Amp

OH BOY TIME TO BREAK OUT THE POPCORN THE COMMENTS IN THIS ARTICLE SHOULD GET QUITE ENTERTAINING

<< Comment #10 @ 00:49 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

ted

I just wonder how much chance was paid for his consulting services...

Edited by ted at 00:52 CST, 21 February 2009

1%

<< Comment #34 @ 02:50 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #10

he could tell from just one rail
JUST ONE FUCKING RAIL MAN!

<< Comment #151 @ 09:38 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Liam - Reply to #34

Oh thanks now we get it.

Sincerely,
Internet

<< Comment #12 @ 00:50 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Vajra

This is so lame.

The best part of said cup was to see nomadic getting totally bummed + the guy can't even strafe ffs :D

8%

<< Comment #13 @ 00:51 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

outlaw

.

Edited by walter at 22:42 CDT, 22 March 2009

38%

<< Comment #16 @ 00:56 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #13

Even CPL had sponsors. =/

<< Comment #20 @ 01:31 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Shrike - Reply to #13

the way this has been handled is a joke - how can someone be disqualified ona hunch. I hope the admins are ashamed of themselves ..

<< Comment #56 @ 04:20 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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wch - Reply to #13

ROFL!

e-sports and seriously in the same sentence.

Quality like that can't be bought.

1%

<< Comment #110 @ 06:51 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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luKrek - Reply to #56

google "korea" you dumbfuck

7%

<< Comment #184 @ 11:34 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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GreenBastard - Reply to #110

haha, sure its popular and loads of money is involved but even in korea the general public do not take it seriously as a sport, its more akin to their version of the WWF

<< Comment #188 @ 11:44 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #184

Do some more research. One of the finals brought in something like 50% of all TV viewers.

<< Comment #191 @ 12:09 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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GreenBastard - Reply to #188

Wrestling is very popular too, doesn't mean people have any respect for it

<< Comment #192 @ 12:11 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #191

When it pulls those kind of ratings, get back to me.

<< Comment #199 @ 12:33 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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GreenBastard - Reply to #192

who do you think korean parents would rather their kids idolise?

Ji Sung Park(who unlinke starcraft players is a true respected sportsman and athlete AND earns far more than your starcraft kids) or Bisu?

<< Comment #200 @ 12:37 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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luKrek - Reply to #199

"true respected sportsman and athlete" Oh lulz

<< Comment #203 @ 12:41 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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GreenBastard - Reply to #200

you disagree?

<< Comment #208 @ 12:51 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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fett - Reply to #203

Pick up a judoka rather than a football player.

<< Comment #205 @ 12:48 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #199

SC players signing million dollar deals is such a terrible fate for a child. Woe is them.

<< Comment #209 @ 12:54 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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GreenBastard - Reply to #205

ok nice you avoided the question, you can get back to me with a starcraft player that earns anywhere near what for example Korean sportsman Park Chan-ho does

<< Comment #239 @ 16:03 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #209

As a parent, I'd be happy if my kid was interested enough in any profession that would support whatever it is he wants. Aspiring for more money than you know what to do with is greedy and wasteful.

14%

<< Comment #260 @ 19:13 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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im a tree - Reply to #205

Considering a lot of SC players drop out of school to play pro SC, and the average length of a starcraft career.... they will be using that income to support themselves for quite a lot of years.

<< Comment #261 @ 19:16 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #260

Plus the open arms of the Korean air force.

<< Comment #268 @ 19:49 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Nukm - Reply to #205

oh come on, most of the players train 24/7 and only get a few thousand bucks for it, leaving them with basicly nothing when their 'career' ends
only the very few at the top are making the big money

<< Comment #275 @ 21:01 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #268

I wasn't arguing that everyone makes it - otherwise you could say the same thing to him about Ji Sung Park. If anything, you have a better chance of going pro in SC, however.

<< Comment #446 @ 12:57 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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GreenBastard - Reply to #275

yet the failed footballers are far more likely to be very fit, healthy and generally have a lot more going for them than a failed sc'r who has been spending their life sitting indoors playing sc for 16hrs a day every day

<< Comment #449 @ 13:04 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #446

Man, you just don't know anything about the scene, do you? Team managers require their players to get exercise and eat well. Hell, just about every commercial break on the Starcraft channels is a reminder to get exercise/go outside/be mindful of real life.

Next?

<< Comment #465 @ 14:32 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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GreenBastard - Reply to #449

i know that playing video games for 16+ hours a day is very unhealthy no matter how many breaks

next my arse

<< Comment #469 @ 14:47 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #465

Actually, it's 8-11 hours at most. Making the choice to do something for unhealthy periods of time is your own fault, not the game/sport. Again, you can't hold the game/scene accountable for personal choice. People also put an unhealthy amount of time into other sports, only to fail/break a bone/have a heart attack/etc.

You're purposely trying to look at it from a bad angle, but you've got no substance to your argument.

Next?

<< Comment #476 @ 15:13 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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GreenBastard - Reply to #469

i'll take your word for it 8-11 hours a day, every day, yea perfectly healthy that!

btw I love sc, but its just a video game to me

<< Comment #478 @ 15:20 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #476

Tons of people stand around working at McDonalds, running a cash register, or staring at a computer screen for 8+ hours a day debugging code, handling customer support, or doing telemarketing. Hell, you can even break a sweat playing at the highest level of Starcraft. Surely, you could do far worse.

<< Comment #662 @ 18:16 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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Dird - Reply to #188

my lovely sam soon did too. entertainment != sport

<< Comment #663 @ 18:16 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #662

You can make a living in all 3.

<< Comment #640 @ 18:21 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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wch - Reply to #110

google: "I don't want too, you're a fuckwit".

<< Comment #156 @ 09:52 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Liam - Reply to #13

You want to go straight to the e-sports ombudsman.

SUE

<< Comment #259 @ 18:56 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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rep - Reply to #13

totarry regitimate requests there, warter

<< Comment #633 @ 11:50 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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waIter - Reply to #13

2walter

oh, please dont cry, moron

<< Comment #634 @ 12:25 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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tourist - Reply to #13

Edited by tourist at 12:25 CST, 25 February 2009

<< Comment #22 @ 01:40 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (c-24-7-180-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)

good riddance

<< Comment #14 @ 00:51 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Trick Troll

lol

<< Comment #15 @ 00:51 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

kaboom

lol? :D

<< Comment #17 @ 01:01 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

vedic

"suspicious circumstances"

"Innocent until proven guilty."

also:

however after due process, the votes had been made in form of a court rule which favored expulsion.

+

the Frag Dominant Quake 3 Cup staff voted 4-2 in Favor of Disqualifying team DafoneMen

Where is the due process? At what point were they given the chance to defend themselves? In which court would having a jury that isn't unanimous result in a guilty verdict? Complete idiots.

Edited by Vedic at 01:24 CST, 21 February 2009

6%

<< Comment #107 @ 06:44 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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link - Reply to #17

afaik they can do as they like..

it's not like they are forced to hand out prices to the winners :)

<< Comment #157 @ 09:55 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #107

What's your point?

<< Comment #163 @ 10:24 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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link - Reply to #157

that they can do whatever they want and it doesnt matter what their reasons are, really.

<< Comment #165 @ 10:28 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #163

Then they shouldn't be trying to use terms like "due process" without knowing what they mean. Hell, they don't even understand how a jury system works.

<< Comment #18 @ 01:04 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

butcher_kgp '

....

<< Comment #19 @ 01:07 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

LoCK

What the hell, that's the weakest shit I've ever heard. Give us more details or shut the hell up I say.

What I want to see is the esr-community make their investigation. It always turns out right. ^^

<< Comment #21 @ 01:38 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

meat man

ID LIKE MY 5000 E$ BACK PLEASE

15%

<< Comment #24 @ 01:42 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Nicky

what suspicious circumstances ....

<< Comment #25 @ 01:45 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Raist

/popcorn

<< Comment #72 @ 05:15 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #25

hey, seat next to you taken?
i brought some Pepsi, btw

<< Comment #73 @ 05:17 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Raist - Reply to #72

Nah go ahead, the show is about to get started. Here, have some popcorn and thanks for the pepsi!

<< Comment #80 @ 05:22 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #73

thanks!
i hope the directors didn't get all "cloak and dagger" with the plot like the last thread i sat-in on!

<< Comment #104 @ 06:31 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Raist - Reply to #80

Oh there will be blood allright, and much rage, and much backstabbing, and much gore.

<< Comment #146 @ 09:21 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Terifire - Reply to #104

And possible some heterosexual man to man bumloving?

<< Comment #233 @ 15:28 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Raist - Reply to #146

But how is that heterosexual then?

<< Comment #253 @ 17:52 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #233

its not gay as long as balls don't touch

<< Comment #363 @ 01:17 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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Raist - Reply to #253

Ah how cunning!

<< Comment #375 @ 01:51 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #363

'=]
Lo told me that one

<< Comment #607 @ 17:33 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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Lo - Reply to #375

ahah

<< Comment #291 @ 21:55 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Stasis - Reply to #25

/boner

<< Comment #364 @ 01:19 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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Raist - Reply to #291

A raging one?

<< Comment #27 @ 01:53 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

darko_

yeah i love the very conciseness of their message (wow) how they specifically told us when and what happened haha.... i feel bad as a person for reading this for some reason.......

<< Comment #26 @ 01:51 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

outlaw

.

Edited by walter at 22:42 CDT, 22 March 2009

2%

<< Comment #83 @ 05:30 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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flowrush - Reply to #26

ya I'd really like to hear what particular moments are they accusing you guys of cheating? Lets here some details already...

What's funny is the quite opposite in that Counterstrike online tourney where that non-LAN team beat a LAN-proven team and lots of people are calling them out yet CEVO is just turning a blind cheek to it all.

http://www.complexitygaming.com/index.php?c=news&id=189

<< Comment #631 @ 11:34 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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waIter - Reply to #26

2waIter
talking here isnt good for you, dirty little cheating dumbass))

<< Comment #28 @ 01:53 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

meat man

Usually when there are suspicious circumstances, we are given an explanation and reasoning behind the suspicious circumstances.

Anyone care to explain?

1%

<< Comment #61 @ 04:36 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Nicky - Reply to #28

ye proof would be nice instead of just accusations

3%

<< Comment #29 @ 01:59 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

madbringer

Edited by madbringer at 01:59 CST, 21 February 2009

8%

<< Comment #212 @ 13:03 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

fett - Reply to #29

KHAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNN!

<< Comment #30 @ 02:06 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

gisele

but under circumstances of extreme paranoia and highly questionable admins.

16%

<< Comment #31 @ 02:11 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (cpe-67-9-182-25.austin.res.rr.com)

this is absolute bullshit, wheres the proof?!?!?!

god damn old q3 has-beens just pissed that walter actually gets to win something. KGB and Walter played great.

the other team just laid down and took their beating.

way to push these jealous assholes shit in walt

NARD

5%

<< Comment #32 @ 02:19 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

squishy

The circumstances under which this decision took place are extremely suspicious, tbh.......

I smell a conspiracy.

<< Comment #37 @ 03:05 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

jone

glad to see my teammate still gets accused after qcon08.

<< Comment #38 @ 03:05 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

juM8o

please fucking share the demos and stuff, let the community say if they are cheating or not.. or atleast tell about these "suspicious conditions"..

<< Comment #36 @ 03:05 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Anonymous (bas1-barrie18-1242373347.dsl.bell.ca)

People and admins most of all should put aside their feelings when they get involved with something like this. This isn't a popularity contest and how you feel about someone should hold no bearing on the outcome of what is said to be a professional esports tournament.

It was clear from the start some admins didn't want to let walter play in this tournament but he was allowed to so live with it. kgb/walter out played everyone and deserved to win.

It would be nice for the other teams in this tournament to stand up for them and say "hey look we got outplayed and they were better"

6%

<< Comment #33 @ 02:31 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

tifu

AHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHA

this is some kind of a joke, right?

<< Comment #149 @ 09:34 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

nk121 - Reply to #33

April fools everyone!!!!!
Oh wait it's not even March yet.

<< Comment #39 @ 03:07 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

dubcat

such professionals!

well, this is clearly hurting their image as a tournament orginizer. and hurting their sponsors aswell.

<< Comment #40 @ 03:08 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Ryan2015

watched some games on wheat.tv nothing seemed wrong is a trend to have players dropped / excluded nowadays?

<< Comment #49 @ 04:02 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (ip-62-143-211-73.unitymediagroup.de)

read this...
made me insta-laugh

<< Comment #41 @ 03:20 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

LoCK

Why don't they have a comment section on their site? God damnit...

<< Comment #42 @ 03:21 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

koji

By the looks of it, walter/kgb are winning

<< Comment #44 @ 03:34 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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squishy

I hope these " admins" never have to do jury duty on an death sentence case. Even the slightest hint of the suspect being guilty would get him killed. :)

Edited by squishy at 03:36 CST, 21 February 2009

2%

<< Comment #46 @ 04:00 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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oreozz - Reply to #44

I believe in a real jury it must be unanimous anyways.. right!?

<< Comment #45 @ 03:50 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

blaze

pfft, all for the drama.
Immature if anything, Frag Dominant just lost all of their credibility.

<< Comment #75 @ 05:18 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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blaze - Reply to #45

btw, who were the admins who decided this?

<< Comment #92 @ 05:55 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Nicky - Reply to #75

would be nice to know

<< Comment #213 @ 13:05 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #75

nomadic, chance, and a random homeless from the street with two votes each. the homeless guy said its all fair.

<< Comment #262 @ 19:40 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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blaze - Reply to #213

lets hang them, including the homless guy.

<< Comment #48 @ 04:02 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

sav

Biased admins, eh? Let's see some demos and judge it for ourselves.

1%

<< Comment #47 @ 04:00 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

skint

who are the 6 admins which voted? its no secret that theres a fair few NA players which either dont like walter/kgb or have been accusing them for ages.
and as vedic mentioned surely you need a unanimous vote?

<< Comment #53 @ 04:12 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Anonymous (74-137-74-187.dhcp.insightbb.com)

ROFL

KGB\walter dont cheat. period.

People don't like kgb because at the WSVG Tour in 2006 he was removed from an event for using g_gunz, a command that was later put into the console as thin lg. People called that cheating...using the console on lan...how many people do you know at lans use the console on tourney machines? Exactly..everyone

He recently finished 2nd place @ Quakecon 2k8 in the CTF Tourney while playing for team RAGE with myself, wn, and shizem.

People dont like kgb or walter because they are easy to poke at...especially walter, seeing as how he's never lanned.

They dont have proof, they don't have cheaters

absolutely a classless, cowardly move on behalf of the admins....

x3o icel0re

3%

<< Comment #67 @ 05:04 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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[allmEntal] - Reply to #53

I was amazed that this whole tournament played out without hack accusations with two of the most infamous players in the scene teamed together. kgb seems to always be 'that guy' that is taking advantage of commands before most players -- g_gunz in icelore's example or the people that say he was one of the first people really taking advantage of xerp before it blew up...he is just a shady guy who either has some of the best aim in the world or is one of the most polished cheaters online.

I have definitely thought these guys hacked at times but come on...not showing evidence of cheating and just booting them from the tournament after they had already won it? jokes

PS. I blame nomadic

Edited by [allmEntal] at 05:10 CST, 21 February 2009

4%

<< Comment #78 @ 05:21 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #67

i blame canada

<< Comment #79 @ 05:21 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #67

also cocks

<< Comment #91 @ 05:55 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Nicky - Reply to #79

oi cocks are good!

<< Comment #98 @ 06:06 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Lo - Reply to #91

dp?

<< Comment #99 @ 06:07 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Nicky - Reply to #98

not tried but maybe i should! (if you mean what i think you mean)

<< Comment #102 @ 06:26 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Lo - Reply to #99

right on.

<< Comment #111 @ 06:56 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Nicky - Reply to #102

thats a yes then x

<< Comment #254 @ 17:52 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #111

oh SNAP
'=]

<< Comment #295 @ 22:26 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Lo - Reply to #254

keep ur balls off mine, k?

<< Comment #361 @ 01:09 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #295

doesn't work that way, bro

<< Comment #397 @ 06:54 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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Lo - Reply to #361

i'll keep mine off urs so u keep urs off mine, k?

<< Comment #439 @ 11:36 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #397

sounds believable

<< Comment #127 @ 08:04 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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.syL - Reply to #99

If you mean what i think that he means, what's in it for the woman?

<< Comment #154 @ 09:45 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Nicky - Reply to #127

.... maybe he doesnt mean what i think he means or you dont think we mean the same as what you think we mean

<< Comment #471 @ 14:53 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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KekS - Reply to #154

outsmarted

<< Comment #517 @ 23:57 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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Nicky - Reply to #471

i think ive totally confused him lol

<< Comment #167 @ 10:40 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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somebodyshootme - Reply to #127

about twice as much

3%

<< Comment #240 @ 16:04 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #67

why don't we all relax until someone puts together the evidence. i'm sure they wouldn't do this without putting something together. even if not, it's their decision and, lets face it, an understandable one. DFM had Napalm3d and other idiots who were blatantly obvious hackers. The fact these guys were let in the tourney is what boggles my mind.

<< Comment #229 @ 14:45 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Despair - Reply to #53

"absolutely a classless, cowardly move on behalf of the admins...."

Exactly my thoughts upon reading this. People who have obvious prior bias towards some of the players should never be allowed to admin over them. Anyone with even a little bit of sense would know that. Their minds were likely all ready made up before the tournament even started. FD needs to get some mature admins who can objectively look at both sides of the coin and exhibit some professionalism before making decisions. FD = fail and do not deserve sponsors if this is how they run things.

<< Comment #50 @ 04:04 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

rapha

Someone suggested I look into the one of the games for suspicious stuff and I'll admit I can understand why some may think they cheated but comeon I mean where's the proof of this. There's needs to be proof shown to the players, hey bud, we caught ya. There's nothing and why isn't there any.

There are many times you could prob look at demos of any pro and find suspicious points in the games. Yes kgb went to qcon and placed 2nd with rage in the ctf thing, he has that credibility. Yet, on the flip-side, you could look at the example of Sombra, who's been to multiple lans and look what ended up happening. This is why events online blow. Even though it's the 'best' source of marketing and accessibility for players and sponsors because it's alot cheaper to do things online (no travel costs or setting up events etc.) there's always the paranoia that everyone has against everyone else. Whereas on lan you could have someone standing literally right there behind the guy to check for anything.

As far as quake goes I personally don't know of any instances during an actual lan tournament where someone has been caught cheating (not counting using commands like timenudge or something that was banned in the ruleset) but I'm not too old school, I dunno all the stories of the older lans etc.

At a time there were some that thought I wallhacked or used something, in gaming period it's guilty until proven innocent. It's a darn shame but I mean how would we even begin to fix this problem. :/

9%

<< Comment #84 @ 05:39 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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flowrush - Reply to #50

I agree the online tournies are not what they should be, especially when there is $ involved. The real cheaters are winning the war, (not saying there was any in this case). It's like Mexico in its current state of affairs. Until there is a real definite anti-cheat preventative measure, which is very unlikely without a revolution in hardware and software secure interactivity, LAN's are the only way to keep it real. Unfortunately every gamer, casual or serious are affected by these cheating steroidal parasites that continue to grow like spam in one's inbox. It's detrimental to gaming, but something like this without proof is also detrimental to those who are suppose to support the competetive community fairly and imparial. And it hurts the prospect of competetive gaming as a whole, no doubt.

<< Comment #85 @ 05:44 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Lo - Reply to #84

that mexico analogy is ambiguous as fuck. no idea what you were getting at with that.

<< Comment #90 @ 05:54 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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micke - Reply to #85

I think he's talking about poles, poles are the mexicans of europe. When you cheat while making a fireman's pole, firemen will die and things will burn. Just look at australia

8%

<< Comment #96 @ 06:04 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Lo - Reply to #90

wat

<< Comment #135 @ 08:43 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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xou - Reply to #90

lol ?!

<< Comment #141 @ 08:58 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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LoCK - Reply to #90

rofl

<< Comment #147 @ 09:25 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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FreaksteR - Reply to #90

You dirty immature swede... you sad fucking twat.

Have you seen how many people have lost their lives in those horrific bush fire conditions? Burnt alive you creep. People have lost all their belongings and you have the guts to make jokes... fucking shame on you.

<< Comment #153 @ 09:43 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Liam - Reply to #147

Calm down mate, just put another shrimp on the...

Nevermind.

23%

<< Comment #159 @ 09:58 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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micke - Reply to #153

aww man, I was gonna go with something like "do you know how many swedes are dirty?, do you know how many swedes killed themselves because of sadness?" or "jokes don't kill people, fire does" . I wish I was as funny as you =(

<< Comment #382 @ 03:50 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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Thorin - Reply to #153

Oh snap!

<< Comment #210 @ 12:57 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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terrorhead - Reply to #147

Don't worry. Many pale skinned, sock+sandal wearing Swedes choked like little bitches during the Tsunami. Booya!

<< Comment #166 @ 10:35 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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somebodyshootme - Reply to #90

yes it's obvious that pole vaulters cheated in mexico

<< Comment #459 @ 14:03 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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flowrush - Reply to #85

Maybe you don't read the news and are just ignorant. But Mexico is on the verge of a civil war because of gang violence. That violence stems from drug cartels attacking each other over territory. And the police are constantly fighting it, but it's not having any real effect. Small battles may be won but they are losing the war. Now do you get it?

<< Comment #488 @ 16:02 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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Lo - Reply to #459

i don't get wtf you mean by cheaters.(talking about mexico, not this FD controversy)

<< Comment #87 @ 05:48 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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InDepther - Reply to #50

Cut the bullshit and be a man by standing up for them

<< Comment #112 @ 06:57 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Raist - Reply to #50

People thought you wallhacked? wtf?

<< Comment #129 @ 08:09 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Co1nCo1n - Reply to #50

hum...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glGQj5i4SqU

The way to deal with cheater in a LAN

:-)

1%

<< Comment #148 @ 09:26 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Terifire - Reply to #129

You know that's fake.. right?:P

<< Comment #181 @ 11:33 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Co1nCo1n - Reply to #148

ORLY ? o_O

:-)

<< Comment #286 @ 21:53 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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apoxic - Reply to #129

Classic

<< Comment #52 @ 04:12 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

wyrag

weak, wheres the proof?

<< Comment #51 @ 04:10 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

mkeiy

lols /care

1%

<< Comment #54 @ 04:18 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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meat man

Maybe they were like:

Hmm... these guys aren't cheating? That IS suspicious....

3%

<< Comment #57 @ 04:21 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #54

it's not counter strike, bro

<< Comment #58 @ 04:26 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Lo

rule broken: questionable play

WTF?

someone is benefiting from this nonsense. wonder who it is.

*edit*

well, i'm going to use the same standards as the FD admins. i suspect nomadic is behind this, so nomadic must be guilty.

Edited by Lo at 05:37 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #59 @ 04:27 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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clan519

i don't see why people are so surprised at this conclusion tbh.. DFM was a hacker clan, with Napalm and others who were blatantly obvious hackers tried continually to pass themselves off as legit.

I saw kgb hack in a few demos back when he played his way into contention, from nowhere, to compete with the top duelers of the time. This was someone who had no credentials as a dueler and suddenly he was beating the top players in the country by ridiculous scores. I saw several demos of him where clear and obvious lg bottage was displayed. Not even a second thought about the legitimacy of this.. everyone I spoke to agreed. I consulted with several top players at the time and all of them said his lg looked like a bot, numerous times in any given game.

Walter I only heard second hand rumors about his dramatic increase in rail percentage.. but it doesn't surprise me that this ruling has been given.

I'll be honest, I watched a few demos from this tourney and I didn't see anything obvious in terms of botting.. the one concern I had was how walter and kgb, through the entire games I watched, never _once_ seemed to be caught off guard or make a mistake in tracking down opponents with quad. It was like they knew where everyone was, at all times.. to the point of being ridiculous.

So if the staff of FD saw what I saw, I can't blame them for thinking wallhacks were used, because if you watch the demos, the map control and continuously confident movement of both walter and kgb just screams out at you as cheating.

<< Comment #62 @ 04:40 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Anonymous (cpe-67-9-182-25.austin.res.rr.com) - Reply to #59

has-been fgt

gtfo and go take care of your kids

2%

<< Comment #69 @ 05:06 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Vajra - Reply to #59

Aren't you somekind of an enormous lamer yourself also? E.g when vo0 was kicking your ass on cpm1a and you said something like "lose the fucking smileys" to him.

<< Comment #215 @ 13:29 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #69

i have never played voo on cpm1a.. so, i guess not?

<< Comment #224 @ 14:00 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Vajra - Reply to #215

Well, another 519 it was then, who cares:P

<< Comment #550 @ 14:51 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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{DFM} conundrum519 - Reply to #224

wasn't me. I own Vo0's face on whatever map you're talking about.

<< Comment #590 @ 11:05 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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wheat - Reply to #69

That was me. And I stand by my statement 100%. Spamming smilies after every kill is just fucking gay. Don't forget that I was the fearless leader of clan519...

styles519 and djWHEAT are the same person.

Edited by wheat at 11:07 CST, 24 February 2009

3%

<< Comment #592 @ 12:11 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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ini - Reply to #590

cg_teamchatsonly ?

or does it not work in duel?

<< Comment #597 @ 13:49 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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LoCK - Reply to #590

So wheat, what are your take on this whole mather?

<< Comment #70 @ 05:08 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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oreozz - Reply to #59

There was a lot of accusation of kgb when I first started playing but I never got to see any demos.

Don't talk if you are without demos!

<< Comment #217 @ 13:30 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #70

when you first started playing you wouldn't be able to tell a bot from your own asshole... demos would prove nothing to your untrained eye, sorry.

<< Comment #247 @ 17:03 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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oreozz - Reply to #217

As of now I'm as good as just about anyone here moran

<< Comment #74 @ 05:18 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #59

confident movement, hmm
i wonder, wasn't walter a defragger with a few world records at one point?
naw, doesn't explain shit.

<< Comment #170 @ 10:46 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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f0cus - Reply to #74

world records? lol no, unless he made the map and was first to play on it.

<< Comment #176 @ 11:17 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Minky - Reply to #170

its perfectly feasible that he did

infact i have held several at one point as well, as has pretty much any other decent defragger

of course theres a difference between "getting a record" and "having the record" .. some of the recs i got i had for like 5-10 sec at most =p

getting them is not hard.. like you say (new maps, underplayed maps etc).. but hanging on them in the long term is =p

10%

<< Comment #551 @ 14:51 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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{DFM} conundrum519 - Reply to #176

Yeah, but given that perspective it's far less impressive, innit?

<< Comment #558 @ 16:14 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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Minky - Reply to #551

obtaining a record is far less impressive? well yes for most maps it isnt as impressive as "world record" would lead you to believe but of course there are maps where a rec or even a top3 finish can be very impressive

<< Comment #218 @ 13:31 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #74

by confident movement i meant, he runs into every part of the map like he knows where his opponent will be.. not that he moves well (which he does).

<< Comment #93 @ 05:59 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Nzr0 ' - Reply to #59

Let me introduce you to a little thing called "talent". You won't find it in pathetic losers who play a game 10 years and still suck at it. There you will find bitterness.

8%

<< Comment #219 @ 13:33 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #93

Let me introduce you to something called reality.. people don't get accused of hacking if they don't do it. I'm not saying walter and kgb hacked in this tourney, but given their track records it wouldn't surprise me.

<< Comment #222 @ 13:55 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Minky - Reply to #219

let me introduce YOU to reality.. people are accused of lots of things regardless of whether they did them or not.. murder, rape, ANY serious offence you care to mention

add in the anonymity of the internet and what have you got? the easiest place in the world to share your biased, obviously untrue lies and slander with anyone who cares to read it

note this isnt a personal attack or anything and i am as yet undecided about whether walter (or kgb to a much lesser extent) cheats .. but still your first point is clearly void in any situation (real life or interwebs)

3%

<< Comment #223 @ 13:58 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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madbringer - Reply to #219

people don't get accused of hacking if they don't do it.

This line makes no fucking sense at all.

I accuse you of aimbotting.

<< Comment #236 @ 15:40 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #223

Let me put it this way, how many LEGIT players through the years have been wrongly accused of cheating? Not very many, if any. The community works like this.. good players play against the good players, they play against each other and they know who they are and how they play. That is how people get good at Q3.

You don't walk into a tiny dueling scene like the one in NA in 2006 without ever playing anyone else and just start dominating the best players in the country with raising suspicions.

So people review demos and guess what, all the good players I consulted who looked at kgb's demos said "that lg is bullshit". Pixel perfect fine tracking over distance, lg beam glued to models midsection. NOBODY fucking aims like that, not even toxic or cypher or whoever.. Look in my comment history for the demos and times in the demos, and download them yourself. If you don't think its suspicious, watch demos of toxic using lg and see if you can tell the difference. If you can't, then you've been fooled by some great hack coders, because they have worked to make their aimbots less and less obvious.

I will tell you right now that ZeRo4, socrates, and a host of others watching kgb's demos circa that period all said he looked and played like hacks. If you think you have better eyes for catching cheaters than the best players in the world, well, good for you. The consensus among actual top players is that he botted. SO here we are.

<< Comment #241 @ 16:05 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Vajra - Reply to #236

Seriously, all trolling aside, why is the North American Quake scene so chock full of paranoia and drama? in the greater scheme of things, who cares if x or y cheats and why keep up with the rumours?

<< Comment #242 @ 16:17 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #241

you try devoting a large amount of time into being a great player and then have some total fucking loser nerd dick come along and cheat you online, stealing prizes and basically shitting on the credibility of the game and your hard work, all in one shot. but yeah, why should anyone care? good point...

<< Comment #250 @ 17:28 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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mkeiy - Reply to #241

It would seem their entire society is preoccupied with paranoia and drama. It sure is apparent in everything from their part of the world.

<< Comment #380 @ 03:42 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

madbringer - Reply to #236

No, i didn't say i think neither walter nor kgb are cheaters or were cheaters. To be honest, i don't give a shit about that. Just that one line you wrote got my attention - the simple fact of accusation does not make one a cheater, even if the accusation is made by many players.

To be perfectly honest, i haven't seen one demo of walter which made me think 'wow, that's impossible, maybe he's cheating'. kgb has an out-there lg aim, but it still isn't proof of anything, really. In the context of this tournament, and the decision made, where NO evidence was presented as such, it makes no god-damn sense at all, it's only a sign of paranoia and extreme bias.

<< Comment #503 @ 18:20 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #380

I can't think of anyone who has been accused of cheating in the past by "the community" en masse and was proven to be completely innocent. You get random idiots whining hax all the time but for top players to be convinced amongst themselves that someone is hacking, they are usually right. That's all I meant by "people don't get accused of hacking that don't". To my knowledge it hasn't happened that a high level player has been accused and acquitted.

We've had near top players who were accused, turns out they were hacking or doing something sketchy, and they apologized and we all moved on. That's kind of what I'm hoping will happen here. But what can you do?

<< Comment #608 @ 17:38 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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Lo - Reply to #503

for you and nomadic to count as en masse, you two would have to be the only ones in the scene.

Edited by Lo at 17:39 CST, 24 February 2009

<< Comment #454 @ 13:31 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #236

tl;dr

CHEATER.

<< Comment #302 @ 22:53 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Lo - Reply to #219

let me introduce you to something called burden of proof..

<< Comment #383 @ 03:58 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

nekon - Reply to #302

let me introduce you to something called the new world order... HAHAHGHAGHAGHAHGHAHGHA

<< Comment #396 @ 06:53 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Lo - Reply to #383

wat

<< Comment #60 @ 04:27 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

wch

hah.

<< Comment #63 @ 04:48 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

shlaeNg

Good job ruining what otherwise was a pretty good and entertaining tournament. Stick to shit team games next time, FD.

1%

<< Comment #65 @ 04:55 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

nard - Reply to #63

blt/griff should come forward and admit they were beaten fair and square! come on now!

prizes are prolly fake anyway

<< Comment #64 @ 04:54 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

POL_ThrawN

If u allow them to play FD 2v2 so its mean thet they where clear before it starts.... wheres the proof?
THATS IT?! This Is Official Statement ?! wtf

Even euros are not doing that way (like u admins)
Shame

PS: what clan519 is saying is serously bs..

Edited by FF_Thrawn at 04:56 CST, 21 February 2009

12%

<< Comment #237 @ 15:48 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #64

dude this is my question, why would you let kgb in any online tourney with prizes?? it's beyond me.. i really considered the kgb issue settled like 2 year ago but here we are again, talking about him possibly hacking.

i literally could not fucking believe him and walter were playing in an online tourney with money on the line, under the fucking DFM tag no less. Whatever admin that decided to allow them was, in my opinion, looking to start shit.

And calm down about proof, because I'm sure they are working on that.

Edited by clan519 at 15:51 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #258 @ 18:53 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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spyteman - Reply to #237

now I'm not sure but I think usually you get some proofs and then start to penalise people, not spit out suspicions and stirr up a lot of shit before anything is provided to back it up. does the police put people in jail and then starts to prove they're guilty, if at any time?

(oh wait, guantanamo. lolz.)

<< Comment #66 @ 05:02 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Nicky

seems to witch hunt is aimed at the admins this time :)

<< Comment #76 @ 05:19 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

loveless - Reply to #66

don't worry nicky, you're not on my "attach to stake and burn" list

<< Comment #89 @ 05:53 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Nicky - Reply to #76

damn there goes my fun :(

<< Comment #251 @ 17:45 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #89

i couldn't imagine being removed by your home with force then set on fire being much fun either

<< Comment #68 @ 05:05 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

spyteman

Further details regarding coverage of the final will be released shortly. Check back for dates & times.

So that's already it for the "official story" and reasoning? What the hell is this? Expert trolling for first of April except over a month early?

<< Comment #77 @ 05:20 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #68

the admins must have studied Monkey_Business' threads thoroughly, and discovered a way to top him via tournament results

<< Comment #71 @ 05:11 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

micke

Kind of funny. Frag Dominant staff hosting child porn on their server and then disqualifying DFM for trying to stop them.
After an extensive and tireless review of the server, no pictures of child porn was found. but due to the idiocy of FD staff, me and a team of FBI agents has found extremely probabilities that pictures of girls with questionable ages exists on the server.
The solution now under way is that the sponsors of the cup will be e-mailed example pictures of what child porn might look like, and an encouragement to stop all affairs with Frag Dominant.

17%

<< Comment #82 @ 05:23 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #71

so to stop child porn, you further distribute it?
GG BRO

<< Comment #86 @ 05:47 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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micke - Reply to #82

fighting fire with fire!
just trying to make a statement as retarded as FDs, I failed though =(

<< Comment #95 @ 06:02 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

zengfu - Reply to #71

pics or it didnt happen

<< Comment #97 @ 06:05 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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twi - Reply to #95

exactly!

<< Comment #88 @ 05:50 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

loveless

if anyone wants to make a statement to the folks at Frag Dominant, here's some contact info
http://fragdominant.com/contact/
it's high-time they know that the community isn't cool with them fucking over the players in the scene they attempt to support

<< Comment #94 @ 06:00 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

toifel

online-tournaments have become a bad joke these days...

<< Comment #100 @ 06:11 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

GreenBastard - Reply to #94

when were they ever not?

<< Comment #101 @ 06:18 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

spyteman - Reply to #100

eurocups back in the days <3

<< Comment #187 @ 11:38 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

GreenBastard - Reply to #101

the ones that had lan finals yes :)

<< Comment #108 @ 06:44 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (bas10-montreal02-1177588985.dsl.bell.ca)

Walter was a cheater. He came from 1.16 instigib and tried to play OSP with the big boys and got raped very hard. He then commissioned micr0n (unfunfunf) to create a specialty hack for him. Paying $20 american for the hack. After he got the hack he played OSPCTF and defrag to cover up his n00bish movements. Soon he was dominant in movement and a well known ctf player. He went to duel and started playing with his 'circle' until he magically could beat cl0ck and some near top players.

KGB is known as DFM-fly. He started with RA3 and was hacking with mankind from cFC. He also met up fellow hacker Nate aka Napalm and their terror extended all over the RA3 world. He later started playing OSP for some gay reason.

Walter and KGB met in duel. They were both hacking at the time. I had this game recorded, but it is long gone. Once KGB used the 'wave' command to Walter through the wall, walter exclaimed 'motherfucker' and then both of them went hardcore hacker style at each other. Walter got pissed he was getting out hacked and disconnected. This is how their bitter rivalry started. People that know Walter will know how he used to accuse anyone of being a KGB when they could out aim him. He knew KGB was around on various aliases. His paranoia went very high at around the time when CZM was using uNborn as his alias. Walter knew that only KGB could defeat him and was sure uNborn was him. CZM just turned out to be crazy as shit with out hacks.

KGB and Walter soon ended their grudge because of TDM. They both enjoy tdm and hate when they are playing with shitty teammates. This is why walter joined KGB's team.
- Side note. Check online matches for a tournament when walter played pyro with 100 ping (west coast tournament). Walter is getting out hacked versus pyro (new dfm member) and takes his aim up a hell of a lot. His cheater pride got the best of him, this is his only real slip up.

With all this knowledge one must think that walter and KGB are still cheating faggots.

This is FALSE. These two guys do not cheat anymore.

KGB has learned much from his hacking. He learned how to aim lg by botting (followed the beam, now uses a +zoom when he lgs to hit massive %)

Walter has learned prediction from his wallhacking. He can predict where people will move and how they will attack. Thus his rail aim is very spot on.

These two guys have near perfect timing and very strong movement. Walter has the best movement I have ever seen.

Anyway that is all for the history lesson, good day.

1%

<< Comment #109 @ 06:48 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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shlaeNg - Reply to #108

Anonymous caring, HARD.

<< Comment #114 @ 06:59 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Raist - Reply to #108

"mankind from cFC. "

He did not cheat...

<< Comment #155 @ 09:51 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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nk121 - Reply to #114

+1, mankind had really really good lg but it wasn't a hack..people come in and want to blame even more people for hacking. not cool

<< Comment #150 @ 09:37 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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link - Reply to #108

hahahhahhahaahha a

hahahhahhahaahha

hahaha

<< Comment #161 @ 10:06 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #108

Wow. Look at the epic nerd rage here. This guy is writing a fucking book about how much worse he is than Walter and kgb. What happened to canadians being jolly?

<< Comment #211 @ 13:00 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Anonymous (CPE001b2f400adf-CM0011e6c4c5fb.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) - Reply to #161

Canadians are cool, but Quebec-ers arent, this guy is from Montreal :/

KGB and Walter definitely outclassed their opponents in the tourney, no other team could compete with them just because they have amazing aim, AND amazing teamwork, no other team had this kind of teamwork, it's got nothing to do with wallhacks, just executing perfect strats.

<< Comment #207 @ 12:49 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Anonymous (bas1-barrie18-1242373347.dsl.bell.ca) - Reply to #108

Your such a fking moron. kgb came from dream cast and started playing ft and later got into ctf then dm. Walter never played 1.16 instagib. MK never cheated and nether did kgb/walter there's never been any proof.

<< Comment #249 @ 17:09 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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oreozz - Reply to #207

Even walter himself told me he came from 1.16 instagib :x

<< Comment #552 @ 14:52 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

{DFM} conundrum519 - Reply to #108

Ahhh, the good ol' days.

<< Comment #103 @ 06:28 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Torzelan '

Hilarious, reminds me of the billions of one-day CS tournaments run by 14-year-old admins where everyone who isn't buddy with them or even in their team but happen to do good always get kicked out of the cup BECAUSE.

If they were let in to begin with and nothing conclusive has come up during the cup, wha... ?

Edited by TorZelan at 06:28 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #105 @ 06:35 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

raul

We needs a solid argument solicitation, or gtfo with this cup and prizes.

btw. fools day is at 1st of april, today is 21st of februar. im right?

Edited by raul at 06:45 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #118 @ 07:12 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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POL_ThrawN - Reply to #105

I hope not

<< Comment #106 @ 06:43 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

eThaD

huh? cheats? where?

<< Comment #113 @ 06:58 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

luKrek

I herd dem swedes are still 5x better than kgb and walter thought, without cheating or anything. :C
I'd like some specifics of the suspicious play or whatever. :|

<< Comment #124 @ 07:50 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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spyteman - Reply to #113

BBB

<< Comment #115 @ 06:59 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

riske_of_h8

lol seriously, this is like the most retarded decision ever made.

<< Comment #116 @ 07:09 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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POL_ThrawN

btw i watch MVDs again and i dont saw any cheats
- dm7 - griffin & bLt played this map with very bad defensive style (almost no tp)
- ospdm6 - situation on MH (when he passed enemy) is good proof for walter thet he didnt cheat at this game
- for sure there wasn't any wallhack - just watch both mvd with command r_shownormals 1.

<< Comment #117 @ 07:11 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Nicky - Reply to #116

upload to ESR, if they arnt already here ... please

<< Comment #120 @ 07:13 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

POL_ThrawN - Reply to #117

no problem

7%

<< Comment #122 @ 07:38 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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POL_ThrawN - Reply to #120

Awaiting Approval both demos :)

<< Comment #121 @ 07:36 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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raul - Reply to #117

MVD`s

<< Comment #137 @ 08:54 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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xou - Reply to #117

it's all there: http://www.quakescene.com/demos?c=39

have fun :]

<< Comment #144 @ 09:16 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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xou - Reply to #117

Thrawn did it in fact, but he left them as draft haha

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1661227

<< Comment #182 @ 11:33 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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POL_ThrawN - Reply to #144

ehhh, i always forgot what this mean;d

Edited by FF_Thrawn at 11:35 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #329 @ 23:38 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Nicky - Reply to #182

means it isnt published :)

<< Comment #132 @ 08:26 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Nukm - Reply to #116

- ospdm6 - situation on MH (when he passed enemy) is good proof for walter thet he didnt cheat at this game

this is the same kind of 'proof' the admins have against them... one situation like this cant proof anything

<< Comment #119 @ 07:13 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Splashhh

BOP had ping problems!!!
BOP always forget quadtime on ospdm6
BOP sit only on YA on dm7
DFM 1st.

<< Comment #123 @ 07:40 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

deotrip

haha first they send a d+ player to korea now this

<< Comment #125 @ 08:00 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

shqdow

pretty impressive first (possible) cheat case, where the admins of a cup are being insulted and not the actual team :>

ridiculous behaviour tho

<< Comment #126 @ 08:01 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Co1nCo1n

Can't believe in that... AGAIN, and AGAIN it happened (or not ?) again. And if all the great champions were in fact only cheaters ? o_O

Too easy to think like that. But it's like in cycling, the "Tour de France", because of some cheaters, they are all suspected of cheating.

It is hard to clean your personal image when you used to cheat a day, even if you do not cheat anymore today. (We have the same case in France, with Strenx... who used to cheat younger (even if he never admitted it), and still keep bad image in the french community because of that).

I don't know what to think about this new story... I will never understand the cheaters (perhaps I have to learn the psychology).

Can I "Hope for them to have really cheated" ?, and in that case they deserved their disqualification. In that case justice won again against cheaters. But if FD has simply failed in their judgement ? and if... it is a "hard" choice, "hard" decision.

pfffff

We still want to believe that some guys are really beast/monster skilled in q3. Let us dream, and please stop (never start) to cheat !

I have more and much more respect to any noob who tried to do his best than to you !
If you cheat to be recognized/known and to win respect in the eyes of everybody... you simply failed !

Edited by Co1nCo1n at 11:34 CST, 21 February 2009

5%

<< Comment #131 @ 08:23 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (bas3-hamilton14-1167924095.dsl.bell.ca)

One time, I was speccing a game with with walter..as usual he was raping idiots on hub like 80| -5 then this guy came on...

UnnamedPlayer: LOL, your gonna get raped
Walter: rofl noob
UnnamedPlayer changed name to Chuck Norris
3..
2..
1..
FIGHT!!
Chuck Norris ate Walters rocket
Chuck Norris was railed by Walter
Chuck Norris was shafted by Walter
Chuck Norris was railed by Walter
Chuck Norris was railed by Walter
Chuck Norris was railed by Walter
Chuck Norris was railed by Walter
Chuck Norris was railed by Walter
Chuck Norris was railed by Walter
Chuck Norris was railed by Walter
Chuck Norris was railed by Walter
Chuck Norris was railed by Walter
Chuck Norris was railed by Walter
Chuck Norris was railed by Walter
9 mins later..
Walter wins 80| -5
Cypher entered the game
Cypher : ^7=^0)
Chance entered the game
Chance: rofl walter is a hacker i can tell from one rail
SK-RAPHA entered the game
SK-RAPHA: lol i raped toxjq wanna play
Walter: lol, okay
toxjq entered the game
toxjq: I like to use the shaft in Quake 4 i think is very good weapon (robot voice)
KGB entered the game
KGB:hi toxjq you should teach me how to shaft like you
SK-RAPHA: lol i owned toxjq
toxjq: thats because its not skilled game
SK-RAPHA: lol noob
SK-RAPHA: I beat cypher too
Cypher: U are LOL, you +backed all game
SK-RAPHA: lmfao, you got owned
Cypher: Wanna rematch?
SK-RAPHA: lol nah, dont have my bible here
Cypher: U are lol
toxjq: lol if it was Quake 4 i would own you with the shaft in Quake 4
SK-RAPHA: lol not if i +backed
toxjq: rofl didnt work for fatal1ty
fatal1ty entered the game
fatal1ty: hey guys check out my new gaming keyboard
Vo0 entered the game
Vo0: oh look its the +backer in Pain Killer
fatal1ty: HAHAHHAHA
fatal1ty: I owned you
Vo0: rofl you ran all game
Cooler entered the game
toxjq: THIS IS A NICE WEAPON
Cooler: **** you, rail ****
toxjq: tee he he he he he he he
Cooler: Use another gun
Fojji entered the game
Fojji: rofl he uses shaft only
toxjq : HEHEHEHHE
KGB: I wanna shaft like toxjq
Walter: I rail like fojji
Fojji: I wanna move like walter
toxjq: I wanna be like rapha in Quake 3

Everyone goes....LOL WUT !?

Walter: Hey toxjq and fojji lets 2v2, me and KGB
KGB: Yeh!
Fojji: only in sweden server
toxjq: yeh..
Walter: lol okay
KGB: lol

They all goto a swedish server connecting etc..
Walter Joined BLue team
KGB joined red team
toxjq joined red team
fojji joined red team
toxjq: HEHEHEHHEE
KGB joined blue team
3..
2..
1..
FIGHT!!
toxjq was railed by walter
fojj was shafted by KGB
toxjq was railed by walter
fojj was shafted by KGB
toxjq was railed by walter
fojj was shafted by KGB
toxjq was railed by walter
fojj was shafted by KGB
toxjq was railed by walter
fojj was shafted by KGB
toxjq was railed by walter
fojj was shafted by KGB

19 mins later..

blue team wins 100 - 10
Chance: lol hackers

THE END

1%

<< Comment #139 @ 08:57 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

LoCK - Reply to #131

That was insanely boring.

<< Comment #415 @ 09:14 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Omni - Reply to #131

return to your mmo please and stay there.

<< Comment #128 @ 08:05 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

terrorhead

Where is the proof?

IS THIS FOR REAL OR IS THIS NOT FOR REAL?!?!?!

<< Comment #130 @ 08:21 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

vamp1re

http://fragdominant.com/contact/

Sha'll we email this boy and his marketing sugar daddy?

[email protected]

probably better to email here.

Edited by vamp1re at 08:24 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #133 @ 08:35 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

GUArd

wont talk again about who is cheating who is not, but i know in most cups admins in rules got rule: "admin can change they rules and admins are always right!"

<< Comment #134 @ 08:38 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Aaron

although I've trolled this shit many times before I wouldn't bat an eyelid because this kind of thing is always going to happen when walter does well in an online competition until he is lan proven

that said, this is without a doubt nomacunt

that guy is an absolute piece of cancer

<< Comment #136 @ 08:54 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Aaron - Reply to #134

join in my hate for nomacunt!!!

[14:50] <Aaron_____> i've called you a cunt many times before but thought this one required a little effort, you're a pathetic piece of shit along with anyone else involved that that obvious shit you pulled, kthx die of cancer asap you moron
[14:50] <Aaron_____> <3

Edited by Aaron at 08:56 CST, 21 February 2009

10%

<< Comment #140 @ 08:58 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

LoCK - Reply to #136

lol

<< Comment #142 @ 08:59 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Aaron - Reply to #140

i stopped the pm trolling when I compared insomnia to the cancer that leaks from my rear

a relapse :(

Edited by Aaron at 09:01 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #173 @ 11:06 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

ix - Reply to #142

A prolapse. You'll probably have to look that up to see what an AWESOME PUN it was. =/

All aboard the nomacunt hate wagon!

<< Comment #175 @ 11:13 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

skint - Reply to #173

discusting

<< Comment #197 @ 12:26 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Vajra - Reply to #173

Nomacunt? You all overlooked the obvious, nomadick.

*ninja edit* surfing on hate waves

Edited by Aryan aquarian at 12:28 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #216 @ 13:30 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

ini - Reply to #197

Nomadick :(

<< Comment #225 @ 14:01 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Vajra - Reply to #216

Aye, crap "pun" I know,

Now surfing on sine waves.

<< Comment #231 @ 15:05 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

ix - Reply to #225

Nomadick it is, pick up a surfer tan(gent).

Do you look kinda like the kid in Let the Right One In?

Edited by ix at 15:09 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #235 @ 15:33 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Vajra - Reply to #231

Nobility doesn't tan, it's for peasants, umbrella is rules.

I look like the asshole in my profile pic, though It's stretched out of proportion, my face is thinner :D

*ninja edit* ofc It'd be cool to be a Vampire ;D

Edited by Aryan aquarian at 15:35 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #245 @ 16:54 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

ix - Reply to #235

Ye, I assumed it was you and it wasn't a paleness joke. Nordic stock. =)

<< Comment #527 @ 02:53 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

Aaron - Reply to #173

didn't have to look it up powpow

that was good

<< Comment #138 @ 08:56 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

riske_of_h8 - Reply to #134

couldn't agree more.

<< Comment #162 @ 10:09 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

vedic - Reply to #134

Amen.

<< Comment #172 @ 11:02 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

ini - Reply to #134

Nomadic even whined on Wheats LO3 esports show about Walter cheating.

The guy is the biggest loser of all.

3%

<< Comment #201 @ 12:38 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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terrorhead - Reply to #172

what a shitcunt

<< Comment #388 @ 05:19 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Khorney - Reply to #134

I cant say whether walter cheats or not, but i'd say the chance of walter participating in an offline tourney is ridiculously small. I wouldnt hold my breath :)

<< Comment #143 @ 09:11 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

xou

some POV demos from walter & KGB:
http://www.quakescene.com/demo/783
http://www.quakescene.com/demo/780
http://www.quakescene.com/demo/776
http://www.quakescene.com/demo/775

<< Comment #145 @ 09:17 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

terrorhead

LMAO @ nomadic accusing him of cheating in dm6 demo. So Nomadic why the fuck did you play against him and kgb in the first place if you think he was cheating?

Why didn't you just refuse to play against these so called cheaters?

Whats with all the gay chat in dm6 demo? Grow some balls and get some skill.

2%

<< Comment #152 @ 09:42 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

vicek

egd

<< Comment #179 @ 11:28 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

TUMULT - Reply to #152

egdasd

<< Comment #158 @ 09:55 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

tom

by the way this tournament paired with wheats casting was really good. way to ruin it, idiot admins

3%

<< Comment #160 @ 10:02 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Jazzy

well this all smacks of retardation

<< Comment #164 @ 10:26 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

link

i watched the demos and all i can say is that walter has an odd playing style. i didnt notice anything out of the ordinary.. you expect these kind of reads from a top player.

i did fall asleep twice though so i might have missed something!

<< Comment #168 @ 10:42 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

terrorhead - Reply to #164

I agree it was very boring. I just can't enjoy Q3 tdm for some reason. Duels are better imo.

<< Comment #171 @ 10:57 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

MarzenGold - Reply to #168

well this was pure one sided rape :(

<< Comment #194 @ 12:16 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

vicek - Reply to #168

even cpm tdm?!

<< Comment #196 @ 12:20 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

terrorhead - Reply to #194

cpm tdm is better of course.

<< Comment #321 @ 23:22 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

apoxic - Reply to #164

I agree on the part about walters playing style.
I've only watched one demo, Walter on DM7 so far, the only thing that strikes me is it seems that he falls asleep and doesn't react to player models at all sometimes, while having very fast reaction at others.

This could ofc be for the fact that he's accused so much, so I'm really taking it with a grain of salt until something big comes up.

Edited by apoxic at 23:30 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #169 @ 10:45 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

raul

Proofs!

Edited by raul at 10:45 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #177 @ 11:20 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

mefajpE^

This is better than the bold and the beautiful!

<< Comment #178 @ 11:28 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

TUMULT - Reply to #177

also better than nip/tuck

but still far away from Flight.Of.The.Conchords :d

<< Comment #195 @ 12:17 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

vicek - Reply to #178

Yes man!

<< Comment #198 @ 12:32 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

TUMULT - Reply to #195

find me axxo on rapidshare so i can tell you

<< Comment #180 @ 11:30 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Syn-

I'm moving right now so I don't have time for a longer post, but I do not support the decision by the sponsor to overturn this, especially in this manner. As far as I'm concerned the tournament is over.

I'll post something more lengthy if anyone wants more.

<< Comment #186 @ 11:36 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

wn - Reply to #180

MOAR

<< Comment #189 @ 11:52 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

funnyb - Reply to #180

more more more

also, people should email their sponsors and tell them how the admins of this tourney is 'behaving', i doubt AMD wants their name to be associated with kids decisions.

<< Comment #193 @ 12:13 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

skint - Reply to #189

OMG do you want ESPORTS to fial!?? if you tell them they will think its all kiddies and STOP SPONSORING US AND KILL ESPORTS!
is that want YOU WAMNT?

<< Comment #204 @ 12:48 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

funnyb - Reply to #193

uhm yeah, i do

<< Comment #214 @ 13:26 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

[mash] - Reply to #180

wait ... so the sponsors overturn the admins decision? i don't geddit.

<< Comment #183 @ 11:34 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

xfoo

So on the plus side we get to have one more DJWheat shoutcasted 2v2 match? Awesome! :D

<< Comment #185 @ 11:35 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

[mash]

lmao @ nomadic

<< Comment #190 @ 12:08 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

riske_of_h8

at first when i saw the newspost i thought it was some kind of joke, then i remembered nomadic being some kind of admin, and i guess that's the real joke.

11%

<< Comment #206 @ 12:49 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Anonymous (99.162.104.225)

/g_gunz

7%

<< Comment #221 @ 13:54 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

nard

keep emailing them

<< Comment #220 @ 13:49 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

vorpal

LAUGH OUT LOUD

<< Comment #226 @ 14:12 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

thelawenforcer '

i dislike vq3, but i watched a demo, and i saw lots of shot priming.

other than that, it was all shaft rail.....ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZ

<< Comment #227 @ 14:16 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Vajra - Reply to #226

Go play warsow.

hahaha

<< Comment #232 @ 15:05 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

thelawenforcer ' - Reply to #227

better than playing the CS of DM games...

<< Comment #384 @ 04:14 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

nekon - Reply to #232

ut?

<< Comment #528 @ 03:21 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

thelawenforcer ' - Reply to #384

vq3?

<< Comment #228 @ 14:28 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Lethe

theres nothing suspicious about the demos from the finals. they are suspiciously boring, but thats it. you cant eject someone from the tourney cause they "used" to cheat, its kinda too late for that, due to the fact that they were ALLOWED to play.

so shut up and give prizes.

<< Comment #230 @ 14:56 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

lettu

lame

<< Comment #234 @ 15:28 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

outlaw

.

Edited by walter at 03:22 CST, 28 February 2009

<< Comment #406 @ 07:57 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

[mash] - Reply to #234

okay.

WHAT THE FUCK?

<< Comment #418 @ 09:25 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

madbringer - Reply to #406

RAZER HOGGING ALL THE TALENT AITE M8

<< Comment #632 @ 11:34 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

waIter - Reply to #234

waIter fucked up once again))) little crying kitty)))

<< Comment #238 @ 16:01 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

wata

so, who profits this mafia move ?

<< Comment #244 @ 16:32 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

fett - Reply to #238

lobster

<< Comment #246 @ 16:57 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

ix - Reply to #238

The Illuminati. It's the first step toward the apocalypse in 2012.

<< Comment #256 @ 18:36 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #246

I fucking hate losers that buy into this shit about the world ending in 2012 (I know you don't but I had to say it to ease my mind).

2%

<< Comment #243 @ 16:31 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Anonymous (stjhnf0120w-142163085213.pppoe-dynamic.nl.aliant.net)

Total bias from the admins, 0 professionalism..This hurts the credibility of the tournament hosts/sponsors/admins more than anything

<< Comment #257 @ 18:39 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Anonymous (173-20-168-103.client.mchsi.com)

Really too bad to see this - While I may not be the biggest walter and kgb fan, after viewing those demos its clear they outplayed and out smarted the other two players.

I have known kgb since our days playing quake on SEGA dreamcast and he has always put in the time to be better. I love the idiot that comments how walter and kgb always seemed to know where the other players were on the map with quad. ROFL? How long have we been playing these maps? There are only so many options and its called "predicting the predictable"??

Frag'D and Razer hosted the tourney which is great, and if you let players enter from the start, you better be willing to back up your prize distribution accordingly. Like walter said, not 1 team disputed them through the whole tourney, and after beating up on 2 of the biggest whiners I have been around online, in griffin and blt, all hell breaks loose.

It is a shame players from the tourney don't come to their defense, for this particular tourney if they felt there was no wrong doing. Maybe their a cute lil Razer mouse for them to just shut up......

Bad for gaming - Esports needs to die online....

eXult | schizm

<< Comment #248 @ 17:05 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

vorpal

it is about time these cheating scum have been brought to justice

4%

<< Comment #255 @ 18:19 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

ted - Reply to #248

that's what i'm sayin...

2%

<< Comment #252 @ 17:45 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Jubei

Lol what a crock.

Walker n KGB won fair and square and the so called pros just cant take it.

What a lame organisation tbh

<< Comment #266 @ 19:43 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By $\0/$ ormey

so what happened guys

<< Comment #273 @ 20:26 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

rep - Reply to #266

you're face

<< Comment #299 @ 22:41 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #273

"You are face", come on rep, you know English better then this. =P

<< Comment #301 @ 22:50 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

rep - Reply to #299

you're mather almostly to

<< Comment #303 @ 22:55 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #301

^^
Btw, what are you doing up so late?

<< Comment #306 @ 23:03 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

rep - Reply to #303

making UTF-8 based internet childrens with funnyb GOOD TIMES :D:DD D:DD

<< Comment #307 @ 23:06 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #306

Oh lord... That won't end well. =D

I'm at work doing network surveillance. I'm soooo bored. You and fb wanna come over and have a threesome?

<< Comment #311 @ 23:12 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

rep - Reply to #307

Yes (read: no)

<< Comment #312 @ 23:14 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #311

Coward, you're just afraid I will steal fb away from you.

<< Comment #314 @ 23:16 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

rep - Reply to #312

No (read: yes)

6%

<< Comment #315 @ 23:17 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

funnyb - Reply to #312

Definition av steal p� n�tet p� engelska:

* take without the owner's consent; "Someone stole my wallet on the train"; "This author stole entire paragraphs from my dissertation"

<< Comment #316 @ 23:19 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #315

You're saying rep doesn't own you ass now?

<< Comment #318 @ 23:20 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

funnyb - Reply to #316

Definition av ass p� n�tet p� engelska:

* buttocks: the fleshy part of the human body that you sit on; "he deserves a good kick in the butt"; "are you going to sit on your fanny and do ...

<< Comment #322 @ 23:23 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #318

I'm not really sure how to reply to that, so here's some Futurama:

<< Comment #323 @ 23:25 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

funnyb - Reply to #322

e

Edited by sucky sucky 5 dolla at 23:25 CST, 21 February 2009

5%

<< Comment #324 @ 23:28 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #323

OH ESR, WHY DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE ME WAIT?!

On another note; do you guys have any good music suggestions that are available on Spotify?

Edited by LoCK at 23:29 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #325 @ 23:30 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

funnyb - Reply to #324

its all worth the wait!

i thought you could approve it as trusted user :�( seeing as reptiles VIP status is totally useless!

ps ,its http://www.ru8.se/hurrr.jpg

Edited by sucky sucky 5 dolla at 23:31 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #326 @ 23:32 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #325

No unfortunatly I can't. It sucks. =( I even think VIP is one step above Trusted User if I'm not mistaken.

ROFL, oh yeah. It would have been worth the wait no question. =P

Edited by LoCK at 23:33 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #327 @ 23:33 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

funnyb - Reply to #324

depends on genre, i only use spotify to listen to teen pop and country music so it wont show on my last.fm *sneaky*

<< Comment #328 @ 23:35 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #327

Whatever genre is fine. Though I can't fucking stand country, sleeze pop and "dansbandsmusik", so not any of that shit please. =)

You weren't serious about you listening to country right?

Edited by LoCK at 23:35 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #330 @ 23:39 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

funnyb - Reply to #328

i wasn't serious about the teenpop part, i do listen to some john denver though.

(not that im trying to hide it, i just cba to download it)

its pretty hard to give advice without a specific genre though ~

nirvana? atreyu? at the gates?

<< Comment #331 @ 23:41 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #330

I've seriously never listened to Atreyu or At the gates. I will give them a try.

<< Comment #332 @ 23:43 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

funnyb - Reply to #331

bump'd

<< Comment #333 @ 23:45 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #332

Mother fucker, you remembered that shit too. ^^

<< Comment #340 @ 23:48 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

funnyb - Reply to #333

i cant remember how old my oldest brother is(its 35 or 36 or smt), but whenever someone trolls me on esr, i'm like an elephant

<< Comment #342 @ 23:51 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #340

Big, fat and afraid of mice?

<< Comment #344 @ 23:53 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

funnyb - Reply to #342

IM TELLING REP :((

<< Comment #345 @ 00:09 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #344

No, don't! I'm kinda scared of him.

Sorry for the late reply, I had to take a dump.

<< Comment #348 @ 00:18 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

funnyb - Reply to #345

dump'd

also i think pooping habits are on a need-to-know-basis in which im not involved.

<< Comment #351 @ 00:22 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #348

Haha, I was thinking "dump'd" too. And you might be right. Probably not though.

<< Comment #356 @ 00:33 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

funnyb - Reply to #351

ye probably not :( i blame the time of the day though.

i need a pee.

<< Comment #358 @ 00:39 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #356

Then pee! I stop working in 20 minuter, after that it's off to bed. So I'll answer anything you write in a few hours proably. See you honey!

<< Comment #366 @ 01:22 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Nicky - Reply to #324

ESR makes you wait coz she is a prick tease x lol

<< Comment #308 @ 23:06 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

funnyb - Reply to #303

JEALOUS MUCH?

<- funnyb

Edited by sucky sucky 5 dolla at 23:08 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #309 @ 23:08 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

LoCK - Reply to #308

YES I AM DAMNIT!

I know who you are ffs. =P

Edited by LoCK at 23:08 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #265 @ 19:43 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Thrilla

If he did I've never seen him and its a pretty small community to begin with.

<< Comment #276 @ 21:02 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

vedic - Reply to #265

You fail at using the simple reply function.

<< Comment #264 @ 19:43 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Thrilla

The more you post the more you look like an idiot. Just about every good player will get called a cheater online at some point. There's too many to list over the 9 years of quake to even try to proof the point. How many people thought czm "uNborn" hacked and even rushed to post demos a make a post on this site in regards to it.

<< Comment #269 @ 19:54 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Nukm - Reply to #264

you should learn how to you the reply function ;)

<< Comment #390 @ 05:22 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Anonymous (cpc1-stap9-0-0-cust4.nott.cable.ntl.com) - Reply to #269

you should be a useful fucking admin and edit his post idiot

<< Comment #404 @ 07:48 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Nukm - Reply to #390

yeah i should you my admin mind reading skills to guess who he wanted to reply to...

<< Comment #420 @ 09:42 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

xou - Reply to #404

Be useful and delete all posts from Aaron :)

<< Comment #421 @ 09:44 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

[mash] - Reply to #420

why should he censor the truth?

<< Comment #387 @ 04:43 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

dubcat - Reply to #264

The more you post the more you look like an idiot.

taeks one to now one!!1

see how I used the reply thingy? it's easy as cake!

<< Comment #263 @ 19:43 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Thrilla

kgb didn't come from nowhere he's been around a very long time about 8 years. You'd be hard pressed to find another two players in q3 that have put more time in to improve their gameplay then kgb or walter since 2006. kgb likes his aliases and just about every time I've seen him he's been aliased.

<< Comment #267 @ 19:46 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

butcher_kgp '

saw maps with shownormals, cant see wallhack

<< Comment #385 @ 04:20 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

nekon - Reply to #267

that's cause you got no walls

<< Comment #271 @ 20:08 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Anonymous (ip68-14-156-194.ri.ri.cox.net)

kgb and walter shouldnt have been disqualified..... we all know kgb is legit no matter how bs he shoots, he goes to lans and plays and doesnt hide anything.. i think this was just another cop out to keep dfm from being #1 again

~ dst - alch

<< Comment #270 @ 20:08 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Anonymous (43.131.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com)

no cheating has been involved here. Razer better overturn the horrible decision, before the community outrage from this begins to spread and hurts their precious mice sales.

INCubus

<< Comment #529 @ 03:24 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

thelawenforcer ' - Reply to #270

LOL

<< Comment #272 @ 20:24 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

fucksi

Okay so...
hasn't anyone ever heard of good and bad days? Some days your good, some days you're SHIT. What if one team is having a shit ass day and one team is having a fucking good day..... isn't that what the definition of a raping is? Can't even win a match by several points anymore without getting accused of hacking....
Everyone that I know of that has hacked, I have seen either ss's or have been told about them getting kicked/banned from servers by pb or caught red handed etc.

WHERES THE PRUUF???

SKUNK FUCKERS.

<< Comment #290 @ 21:54 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

stownr

looks to me like they got robbed. sad it comes to this.

<< Comment #289 @ 21:54 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Anonymous (dsl1-150.OnlineToday.Com)

I watched the semi-finals and finals live and then watched the demos again this afternoon. Of course, I do not have the admins' discerning eye but what I saw was when walter and kgb worked as a team, they were able to successfully control the maps.

I did see kgb land some hits with spam rockets on griffin but that IMHO proves nothing. Spamming is part of the game (for better of worse) and if every spam rocket or prediction rocket that hits is considered a cheat, we are all in trouble.

I am disappointed the tournament admins chose to make their announcement without first notifying all the teams involved and without presenting the evidence to support their decision. Right now, this looks like nothing more than a few people acting on old grudges.

{DFM}Ic3-IX

<< Comment #288 @ 21:54 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Anonymous (75-144-50-253-Tennessee.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)

this is the rediculous. i know kgb personally and know he doesnt cheat so this really catches me off guard... you guys are fools and should be beaten. its nice to see that after 12 years of playing that alot admins havnt changed one bit. you give all gamers a bad name. i'm sure this will weigh badly on the popularity of the league. i know i'm not signing up for a league that bans people on a whim. die.

<< Comment #274 @ 20:48 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

VoulCaine

What an interesing 'top secret' case!!! Authorized people just overact their administrative duties thinking the are... you know... special agency of cheat investigations! \m/
But... Holy crap, what are the methods?!

The fair method is to show evidences to some players, sort of jury. Another good method is to request for an expert view. You know, just a guy competent enough who is being respected by both sides.
But none of players were questioned about someone's cheating as far as we know. Just the "I think... I can... I do..." shit.

But the most interesting thing about this case is the verdict. I mean that one third part of the cup staff voted in favour of DFM. It appears that nothing is clear even for them. And who are these men? Are they really competent in this case? Have they ever played q3?

And THEY just destroy players' reputation! It is a death sentence by some people of the high-level cup staff. And it must be a steady decision by all of them!

If they weren't absolutely sure about the guilt, they could cancel the final match results and schedule the re-match, due to the "suspicious circumstances surrounding the final match". DFM defeated both 3rd and 4th teams. Or they cheated all the play-off matches out? Are you really sure?

Shame on the cup staff! I don't care about the cup winner or the cheat proof itself. I just enjoyed the CQ3 matches. But... All the times if the online cup admins are not certain about someone's cheating, they ask both teams for a re-match. And they never kick players without an explanation. Think better of it! You establish a precedent thoughtlessly!

<< Comment #277 @ 21:05 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

clan519

blah blah here's a little video i made of kgb totally legit aim frealz.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1661516

edit: here too http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZI562Y92

Edited by clan519 at 21:26 CST, 21 February 2009

<< Comment #391 @ 05:40 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

fjorgyn - Reply to #277

default mg every good player can do...

you are seeing stuff just because you want to.

<< Comment #278 @ 21:09 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

(Link, Reply)

By

Syn-

Okay here's where I stand as the Tournament Director and Head Admin of the Frag Dominant Quake 3 2v2 Cup. I wasn't going to say anything but with the way that news post is worded, it appears as if I sanctioned the overturning of the finals result (kgb/walter defeating griffin/bLt). This is definitely not the case, I DO NOT sanction, back, or appreciate what has gone down this past week in any way. Additionally, I will not let my name, or the admins, be dragged through the mud in this controversy.

The finals were over turned by Razer|Nomadic, representive of the lead sponsor of the tournament (Razer) and one of the tournament organizers. All prizes are coming through him so there is absolutely nothing I can do about him over-turning the result of an event I worked extremely hard to get completed with a good amount of coverage for both the players and spectators alike. So I believe my frustration over this is clear.

For some background, please note that only one other match (kgb/walter (#2) vs nomadic/gillz) was ever contested during the tournament. The result of that was a simple review of the demos with nothing found that warrented further looking into.

Nomadic, not griffin or bLt, came to me Wednesday (I believe it was Wednesday) about contesting the results of the match focusing on kgb's POV and the q3dm7 demo. Initially, I wanted to kick this out to ClanBase C&A to utilize their experience and time, as I had none between my new job and moving. However, this was not fast enough by Nomadic as he wanted a vote ASAP and rounded up the admins, including Alien who is listed as an admin but has not actually shown up for anything outside of being 2hrs late to the pre-tournament meeting! Instead of arguing, I simply asked a top tier NA player who's advice on such matters I trust fully to also take a look at the demos (don't ask me for his name, I won't be sharing unless he gives permission). This way we'd also have a top tier player's POV that everyone trusts for the vote. After a day, the player in question messaged me his opinion on the matter and I had also watched the demo, specificailly watching what was claimed as hacks at 2 different points in time (2:36 + 5:23, kgb pov) on q3dm7, with and without shownormals.

We met Thursday night, I was under the assumption that this would be an unanimous decision to kick+ban, anything less would mean it would be considered a 'not guilty'. I associate this decision in light of the position of the tournament as a 'murder trial' sort of situation with an unanimous vote being needed to 'convict'. As we voted, the votes lined up with guilty leading. For the record I voted "no" based on the fact that I did not see 100% proof of any sort of hack, in ANY of kgb's demos all tournament long. I saw agressive, stupid, lucky and at times fishy play, but nothing that in my eyes was 100% proof postitive of a hack. I left Thursday night with 2 votes outstanding as I had to get up at 6am for work the next morning. It was shortly before I left that I found out that Nomadic was happy with just a majority vote, which several admins and I DID NOT agree with - we felt it had to be unanimous... so I left a little steamed.

To me, 100% proof of a wallhack would've been seeing kgb trying to shoot the guy through a solid wall. My best example of this is cl0ck many years ago on pro-q3dm6 where he shot the jumppad and with shownormals you can clearly see him trying to shoot a guy that is hiding crouched behind the RL spawn on q3dm6 at the top of the jumppad. (Side note: cl0ck admitted his mistake and apologized. He took his lumps and went on to be a pretty darn good dueler, tdm'er and ctf player online and offline! It's my belief that second chances for those that fess up to mistakes and change their ways must be given)

Friday evening after I get home from work for a quick drop off of things to then get in my car and immediately begin driving home for my move, I get another message from Nomadic asking me to discuss things as he pretty much wanted me to support this decision even though it was a 4:2 vote for walter/kgb hacking... with no 100% real proof, just 'suspicious activities'. I told him again that I would not stand by this if the decision was not based on 100% facts and was an unanimous decision and this was soley his decision as he was apparently intent on overturning the results already having written a "Press Release" even though no decision was made and he wanted to talk. The conversation ended with me driving north for 4hrs and Nomadic saying he was gonna have to do what he thinks is right.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Nomadic is doing what he thinks is right for the situation but just lacks experience to handle such things in a proper manner which has led to this fiasco. That said, I am not in a position to make the final result stick due to not being in control of the prizes. I also suspect Frag Dominant themselves were not consulted about this ruling based on reactions here and on IRC, since they were the host they would've been the 2nd people I contacted (after walter+kgb themselves) before making this public.

As for xterm and Beef, they did a remarkable job all tournament long and I would be privileged to run another event with both of them!

That is where I stand, I hope it sheds some light on how the decision was made without all of the internal meetings discussion that obviously cannot be released to the public.

55%

<< Comment #282 @ 21:34 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #278

I think Nomadic is doing what he thinks is right for the situation but just lacks experience to handle such things in a proper manner which has led to this fiasco.

uhh what? Have you not seen the complete and total vehement paranoia that he's made towards walter in the past? He's just jealous and/or an idiot.

<< Comment #376 @ 02:28 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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Kaloos - Reply to #282

He's paranoid with everyone. Remember about Winz @q4 ...

<< Comment #423 @ 09:51 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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xou - Reply to #376

Afaik, the first american who complained about winz in Q4 was probably Socrates during the ESWC 2006 finals, not nomadic.

<< Comment #443 @ 12:39 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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Kaloos - Reply to #423

Maybe he wasn't the first but he is accusing good players of cheating without any real proof...

<< Comment #444 @ 12:50 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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xou - Reply to #443

Maybe he's just blindly following someone's opinion in these cases

<< Comment #445 @ 12:50 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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Kaloos - Reply to #444

Well at least he is a dumb cunt for sure !

<< Comment #670 @ 13:22 CDT, 9 April 2009 >>

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Cloud - Reply to #282

you
are
a
fucking
loser
.

like most everyone else here

Edited by Cloud at 13:22 CDT, 9 April 2009

<< Comment #672 @ 14:14 CDT, 9 April 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #670

Your spacebar is broken, much like your ability to comprehend the conversations going on here.

<< Comment #673 @ 21:54 CDT, 9 April 2009 >>

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Cloud - Reply to #672

wow, good one! SICK burn man wow...

the irony is that it IS broken

<< Comment #674 @ 02:24 CDT, 10 April 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #673

That isn't irony.

<< Comment #675 @ 06:38 CDT, 10 April 2009 >>

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Cloud - Reply to #674

correct

<< Comment #676 @ 06:40 CDT, 10 April 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #675

So....

<< Comment #677 @ 21:16 CDT, 11 April 2009 >>

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Cloud - Reply to #676

Rofl

<< Comment #678 @ 02:49 CDT, 12 April 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #677

Think before you stumble.

<< Comment #679 @ 06:55 CDT, 12 April 2009 >>

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Cloud - Reply to #678

Get a life.

<< Comment #680 @ 07:07 CDT, 12 April 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #679

See, now that's irony.

<< Comment #681 @ 07:20 CDT, 12 April 2009 >>

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Cloud - Reply to #680

incorrect

<< Comment #682 @ 07:34 CDT, 12 April 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #681

Suck it up, you set yourself up.

<< Comment #683 @ 07:45 CDT, 12 April 2009 >>

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Cloud - Reply to #682

??

uhh, wow

<< Comment #684 @ 07:49 CDT, 12 April 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #683

Slow.

<< Comment #685 @ 08:06 CDT, 12 April 2009 >>

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Cloud - Reply to #684

Funny.

<< Comment #687 @ 08:13 CDT, 12 April 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #685

Thanks. <3

<< Comment #688 @ 08:22 CDT, 12 April 2009 >>

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Cloud - Reply to #687

Not intentionally. (clearly.. but obviously you can be excused for the "slip" up.)

That's the best part.

<< Comment #689 @ 08:29 CDT, 12 April 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #688

Aww, you're trying to be cute.

<< Comment #690 @ 08:34 CDT, 12 April 2009 >>

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Cloud - Reply to #689

??

See a shrink.

<< Comment #691 @ 08:42 CDT, 12 April 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #690

More! Keep going!

<< Comment #284 @ 21:36 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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funnyb - Reply to #278

in short, nomadic is a dick, and walter & kgb, who you guys let in the tourney, and allowed to play the entire tourney, will suffer for it

great work, much respect for FD.

<< Comment #296 @ 22:28 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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vamp1re - Reply to #278

Syn, you've organized a lot of excellent tournaments. I hope next time some ground rules are laid about this sort of thing. Personally I hope this doesn't stick. Is this final that walter and kgb are getting fucked royally?

Nomadic has lost all little credibility that he has had.

4%

<< Comment #341 @ 23:51 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Nicky - Reply to #278

seems to me like he has made this his personal vendetta and if that's the case he SHOULD NOT be involved with tournaments

5%

<< Comment #347 @ 00:18 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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butcher_kgp ' - Reply to #278

cudos for writing this post

<< Comment #370 @ 01:27 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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Raist - Reply to #278

Professional as ever Syn.

<< Comment #394 @ 05:56 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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ini - Reply to #278

I like how nomadic chose to pick out on KGB and not walter. I'm sure if he had accused walter everyone would have just ignored it as his usual anti-walter rantings.

<< Comment #413 @ 09:09 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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f0cus - Reply to #278

"To me, 100% proof of a wallhack would've been seeing kgb trying to shoot the guy through a solid wall."

It sounds like you're trying to save face, to be honest.
I think, that in fact, you DO think they cheated. I think you just don't want to admit it because you can't know they cheated.

Deep down, I think you know that there's no chance in hell they'd have pulled this off on LAN. That's what I've taken from this. It sounds to me like the high level player you trusted to provide some input showed you exactly when and where they were cheating, but not in a way that you can outright blatantly point out. And since neither walter nor kgb are completely retarded, you'll have to "assume" they're legit, no matter how far they don't manage to get at LAN tourneys, if they even show up to one in the first place.

1%

<< Comment #436 @ 10:53 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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vamp1re - Reply to #413

sounds like you've tried to read through his post into the depths of his mind, and completely failed.

<< Comment #438 @ 11:00 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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f0cus - Reply to #436

Well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Edited by focus at 11:01 CST, 22 February 2009

<< Comment #433 @ 10:30 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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ddk - Reply to #278

respect syn!

it's sad that a tournament utilises such double standards, and that this isn't obvious to some of the people involved.

convicting on suspicion - ok, but, if there is suspicion that they cheat in the first place, why allow walter/kgb to enter? by letting them enter the tournament it's extremely contradictory to then ban them from suspicion alone, lacking any facts. plus i watched those games too and i didn't see anything dodgy at all. what a shame.

either way, great job syn and your professionalism will be recognised by the majority i'm sure! hoping to see more tournaments with your name behind them!

Edited by ddk at 10:32 CST, 22 February 2009

<< Comment #440 @ 11:57 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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ix - Reply to #278

A very solid post but I strongly disagree with this part:

"It's my belief that second chances for those that fess up to mistakes and change their ways must be given"

People like cl0ck shouldn't get 2nd chances, expulsion from the community (as in you don't get to play any events nor pickup in major channels) is the only punishment there is for hackers. If you just go 'oh ok' and they're playing as normal next week you're not doing anything about cheats, people have carte blanche to do it because other people got away with it. Those cheaters then always have an aura of suspicion around them like kgb does and it fucks up great events (the cup was really good, well run and interesting to follow) like this. Having said that nomadick is a dick. The prize distro guy shouldn't be playing in the event and even if kgb and walter are cheating the way this has been done has done more harm than good thanks to him.

7%

<< Comment #548 @ 14:10 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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blaze - Reply to #278

I've just got a question. Why is an admin(normadic) allowed to play in his own cup when there's cash/prizes involved?

<< Comment #567 @ 18:28 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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Nukm - Reply to #548

propably because he had no chance to survive the first round :D

1%

<< Comment #287 @ 21:54 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Anonymous (c-69-136-115-1.hsd1.az.comcast.net)

KGB has always been above average even on the dreamcast days. His biggest problem was that he aliased way too much for people to notice him. He has had a bigger background in teamwork play than doing dueling, but it seems he was a natural for doing 1v1. He didn't come out of nowhere, he did get his asskicked by pros/really good players but he was always above average. While everyone was using rail and rox, he was getting his ass handed trying to perfect his lg, and when he did perfect it everyone started screaming HAX HAX. Ask him to do plasma/rockets only, he's still super solid on weapons that aimbots/autoshot suck for especially for pinging 50-60s. He's had his LAN cherry popped, and he's getting less and less nervous when competing live, when you realize what a joke this decision is remember to return kgb his $1,100 prize compilation back. Meanwhile the decision should have been decided before or during the final match, not after, while the other team are good players, and they got outplayed plain and simple.

my $.02
-ViOlAtOr

<< Comment #379 @ 03:42 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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m1ndphuq - Reply to #287

haha,
I admit he was a scary little cunt rag back then even with a shitty little controller. Of course that is only in respects to our beloved toilet bowl DCq3 community. The point being, even eight or nine years ago he showed that he wasn't an idiot and he knew how to make progress in his game and has done so rapidly in the last how ever many years, hence his successes in a few mentioned LAN events.
I must say as of now the only thing I see that is suspicious is the complete lack of professionalism and courtesy displayed by a mr. nomadic. This appears to be little more then a personal vendetta and regardless of whether or not there is real merit for the allegations towards kgb, the way in which nomadic chose to proceed is ridiculous.

CoLd{9mm}

*ps, no matter how good he is or how many years go by, kgb is still a little cunt rag. ;)

<< Comment #279 @ 21:23 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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skint

NOMADICK IS A FUCKING CUNT, I FOR ONE WILL SLAINE THIS BTICH IN THE MOST HIDEOUS WAYS POSSIBLE!

<< Comment #280 @ 21:24 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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skint - Reply to #279

ITG

<< Comment #281 @ 21:29 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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baron Railgun :

omg, kgb got hurt inside at 11:40

<< Comment #283 @ 21:36 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

wn

...

Edited by whitename at 21:36 CST, 21 February 2009

2%

<< Comment #298 @ 22:36 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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rep - Reply to #283

wow i think redeye is a pretty funny guy, he makes topical lolcat captions and doesnt afraid of anything

5%

<< Comment #343 @ 23:52 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Nicky - Reply to #298

haha

<< Comment #357 @ 00:34 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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rep - Reply to #343

<3

<< Comment #522 @ 02:19 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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raithza - Reply to #283

who's that pic of?

<< Comment #285 @ 21:50 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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judge717

pretty lame imo

<< Comment #339 @ 23:46 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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Anonymous (CPE000c6e88515a-CM0014e88eecea.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)

kgb & walter r the q3 bosses

<< Comment #292 @ 21:59 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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erok

This is quite ridiculous. Everyone watched the games and no one was screaming hacks except the old washed up Nomadic...Syn's post pretty much sums up this situation...It's not about being talented at the game, it's about how many protein shakes you can take from your sponsor.

<< Comment #411 @ 08:36 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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viju - Reply to #292

seconded. if you're overturning the results of this match based on kgb's performance or suspicion about his game, definitely reconsider as he's a legit player who's proven himself on lan multiple times. to still come out and say he cheats is extremely naive and stripping them of their prizes is very unfair.

if it actually does have something to do with walter though, that I can't comment on.

<< Comment #464 @ 14:32 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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erok - Reply to #411

Yeah, the funny thing is nomadic was only screaming hacks at walter...then when it came time for him to show proof he only picked two times from kgb's pov...These times had to be THE WORST cheating accusation videos i've seen too..

<< Comment #293 @ 22:03 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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destrukt

i remember getting this guy with super crazy aim in the first round at lanwar 2k7. it was only the first round but like 8 minutes in we were tied at 5-5 and his LG aim was insane, and i was like who the hell is this guy? It was KGB..... Then I played CTF against him at qcon, and his aim was insane there as well.

KGB is a solid player. I won't anything about walter, but I know KGB is f'realz.

<< Comment #346 @ 00:13 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #293

Brian, have you seen this demo?

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1661605

Just curious... I mean, I've watched what bots do before, hell, just fire up a game of q3 with some bots and go team s, and watch how they aim.. midsection lock, 100% pure tracking. HMMmmmm.

<< Comment #349 @ 00:22 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #346

It's only there because you're looking for it. Go slow down a few of cooller's epic LG traces - they're FAR more impressive.

<< Comment #352 @ 00:25 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #349

have you ever watched someone actually use a bot? have you? the difference is startling.. the 'lock' just looks so out of place to your eyes if you are used to human aim. slow it down and you can see why.. the bot has 100% perfect tracking of the model. humans aren't 100%, cooller is not 100%, toxic doesn't track people like that. they cut off the angles, they go for high percentage movements, they strafe with people. if you can't see it thats okay, you just aren't really qualified to make a judgment.

<< Comment #354 @ 00:30 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #352

So you're trying to say that naturally perfect tracing, even for a brief moment, is impossible? Do you play the same game we do?

<< Comment #359 @ 00:55 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #354

no.. i'm not saying that statistically its impossible.. i'm saying that if you do it 12x in one game
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1661605
you are botting.

<< Comment #386 @ 04:38 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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GUArd - Reply to #354

use fov 40 and use timescale 0.2 and you will understand what he talking.
u can hit 100% without aimbot, but u wont hit PERFECT TO ENEMEY (not all time to center), like with aimbot.

<< Comment #458 @ 14:02 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #386

Thank you, christ, at least one person can see the retardedly obvious. Kgb has hacked, probably hacked in this tourney, and I don't doubt that he would hack again.

Sure, maybe he plays legit on lan.. but then he isn't beating anyone good on LAN. I don't understand why the fuck he just can't stop cheating online, it seems like he's plenty good of a player without cheats. Some kind of pathology.

<< Comment #635 @ 12:29 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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tourist - Reply to #386

don't bother man. these muppets couldn't tell a cheat if it bit them on the ass.

<< Comment #470 @ 14:47 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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flowrush - Reply to #352

"you just aren't really qualified to make a judgment"

You're not qualitifed to make judgement without PROOF that the tracking is pixel fucking perfect. The human eye is not perfect and you're no beter than anyone else at being able to discern computer guided pixels from human ones. Otherwise it's nothing more than you're opinion so stfu.

<< Comment #294 @ 22:12 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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baron Railgun :

interesting on how after watching the demos I come into the same conclusion as coment #278, that on second map kgb pov looks a little bit strange. even neglecting his rg aim, it leds there the impression that his aim is autofocusing on walter, every time there is no1 around, and at that point he moves the mouse in other direction to push his aim away from walter. it might as well be just an impression, resulting from kgb's nervous style, aiming his teammate, in order to keep aim on alert, but considering his aim and the shitty monitors...
my conclusion on the matter: kgb aiming behaviour looks suspicious, and on the other hand claims like why did griffin accept to play in the first time are stupid, because he could not see the demos before playing the matches, isn't it?

<< Comment #297 @ 22:32 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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rep - Reply to #294

president please, kgb was just checking walters health and armor status and there was nothing suspicious about it.. this brings me to a personal question, have you ever played tdm and for how long have you been having these brain malfunctions?

i'd say that there were more and stronger moments where kgb was surprised that an enemy just popped out from behind a corner where he was generally aiming at.. just as you normally do when playing q3dm7.. like a small 'twitchy' mouse movement indicated to me that he was about to switch his focus to one of the other two entries into the RA room when suddenly an enemy appeared and he quickly went back trying to hit a rail..

this whole thing, to me, is a farce and i hope Nomadic will come to his senses and realize that this do not justify or qualify as enough evidence of cheating.. i'm sorry, but they are the obvious deserved winners of this tournament and this error should be corrected not necessarily for the sake of kgb and walter, but for the entire NA scene..

PS. fuck you all and play more cpm

19%

<< Comment #300 @ 22:47 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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baron Railgun : - Reply to #297

"president please, kgb was just checking walters health and armor status and there was nothing suspicious about it.."
it doesn't look like he was checking walters status, more like he was checking walters pelvis, clan519 (c)

<< Comment #304 @ 22:57 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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rep - Reply to #300

what? his pelvis is awesome, ask your butt about it - it'd know

woooo!!!

<< Comment #310 @ 23:08 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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baron Railgun : - Reply to #304

I'd say before trying to play smart, u'd better read one more time what you said before: "i'd say that there were more and stronger moments", which means I am right, too, but not at the same extend regarding the importance of the facts.
So if you contradict yourself, you have just proven that even if you can't be sure if you will be able to fuck all, like you like to mention in your PS, you at least are doing a great job on fucking yourself, a pretty good start, I guess
not only that, but you might feel good with it (wooo)

"this brings me to a personal question, have you ever played tdm and for how long have you been having these brain malfunctions?"
the personal answer I would like to give u on your personal question is a little bit impossible, because the distance

PS: stop taking drugs and act like a 14 years boy, be a fuckin man and face reality, that osp>cpm

<< Comment #313 @ 23:15 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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rep - Reply to #310

well played, old man.. i agree with all things you mentioned that involved the words "twatted" and "you're face"

<< Comment #317 @ 23:20 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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LoCK - Reply to #313

Again with the "you are face", get it straight man!

<< Comment #319 @ 23:21 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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rep - Reply to #317

No sir, YOU are face!

<< Comment #409 @ 08:15 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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h3i - Reply to #319

No, I am Face.

<< Comment #541 @ 12:16 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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baron Railgun : - Reply to #409

looks like a guy commitmented to Jim Cunningham's Sparkle Motion organisation

<< Comment #320 @ 23:22 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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funnyb - Reply to #310

Definition av osp p� n�tet p� engelska:

tournament mod for Quake 3, including warm-up modes and optimised visualisation options for competition.
www.nvidia.co.uk/object/eswc_lex_uk.html

better use them osps, they got WARM-UP MODES

<< Comment #416 @ 09:14 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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f0cus - Reply to #294

{Samsung Syncmaster 997mb 19inch .20 dot pitch CRT }

not so shitty :P

<< Comment #338 @ 23:46 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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hazrd

Just finished watching both demos of the final (again), this time with r_shownormals 1 (ive never used wallhack myself but i suppose it can simulate the wallhack fairly good) And all i saw was another team outplaying the other, with great aim, smarter play and above all better teamplay.

kgb POV-
I especially watched the moments Syn refered to "(2:36 + 5:23, kgb pov) on q3dm7" which imo is proper bullshit, to comment this a bit further;
2:36 - KGB stood at one of the doors where he'd either hear or see the enemy when he was trying to get to quad, he also knew that walter were down below due sounds, only option left where the enemy could really attack quad without they knowing about it was the other door.. hence the spam towards it which was rather successfull

5:23 - After 5 mins of defensive play by ur opponent, what could u expect other than them sneaking around somewhere? besides.. he would just have been dumb to rush through there (another example of good prediction/successfull spam)

(i watched the demo once more just for this sequence, and between those 2 situations i encountered some rather funny behaviour from some1 who's supposedly using wallhack @ 3:08... Doesnt look too wallhackish to me.

Cause Syn announced these 2 situations specificly, i cant ignore the thought -is this the most so called "suspicious situations" they're presenting as proof, if so i would say that the admins (that voted for disqualification) had a preconceived notion about just this matter before it all took off, and then started a witchhunt for things that wasnt really there.

And from walter POV, jumping past grif @ MH on ospdm6.. jebus christ, wallhack my ass.

I seriously hope that that plague/whaz and blt/griffin won't go through with this "new final" to show that they wont support this this type of behaviour from the admins.

1%

<< Comment #337 @ 23:46 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (c-67-184-228-140.hsd1.il.comcast.net)

Same Old Story!!! -DFM has been winning and getting kicked out of tournaments for years.. For reasons such as "I think he's cheating" the best part about this is that they accuse kgb and not Walter. KGB has been to countless tournaments. None the less we(DFM) will keep winning and getting banned out of tournaments happily! At least you give us the opportunity to slap the competition around!

~Swooped/Pyro Brad

<< Comment #305 @ 23:02 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

magnum_

I don't really know walter, but kgb is an amazing player. Like dkt said, he can play well at lans too. I'm not really sure what all of this bs is, but I don't see how it's appropriate or warranted.

<< Comment #336 @ 23:46 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (cblmdm72-241-120-52.buckeyecom.net)

I really hope Nomadic will reverse his decision and apologize to the general public. You know know, there might be time to save his reputation. If he sticks with it though, its over for him. Who can take a man like that seriously after this? Who would let him be in charge of ANYTHING?

<< Comment #335 @ 23:45 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

BLT

Griffin nor I said anything because even if someone was cheating both of us realize its basically entirely impossible to prove unless they are complete retards about it. I have enough respect for KGB to at least realize that if he wanted to cheat he would be able to get away with it. That said I just finished watching both demos, and I don't see anything that I would consider evidence of hacking in either of the demos that I watched, KGB+Walter played incredibly well, and Griffin and I both played terribly (me especially) end of story. I feel this was a bad call on the admins part and that they should rethink their decision.

24%

<< Comment #355 @ 00:33 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

rep - Reply to #335

since paranoia seem to be the way of things these days, nomadic will see your low post count and know you're actually kgb posting under a fake name

and by the logic of reality brought to us by clan519, him accusing you of this is all the proof needed

<< Comment #362 @ 01:16 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

oneroomdisco - Reply to #355

Registered: 22 Nov 2006

<< Comment #371 @ 01:33 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

rep - Reply to #362

obviously bought the account from some random guy and renamed it

<< Comment #334 @ 23:45 CST, 21 February 2009 >>

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By

lonewulf

bottom line is kgb is owed an apology...
he should also be compensated for his pain/humilation suffered in the online community...
put yourself in his shoes...
he thought he prepared himself and his teammate for victory...
only to have it all taken away over poor sportsmanship/jealously/envy..
he needs to be compensated.

<< Comment #373 @ 01:40 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

ted - Reply to #334

then blow him already

<< Comment #350 @ 00:22 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (c-76-102-176-63.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)

Nomadic is the kind of person that would try to get someone banned just because he got owned by them / is jealous of them. Why on earth would you ever let an admin play in the tourney?

<< Comment #353 @ 00:26 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Nicky

i do wonder why/how a representative of the sponsor can have the final say on how the tourny is run... they should be impartial? and they certainly should NOT play in the tourny thats just asking for trouble!

8%

<< Comment #369 @ 01:23 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

jone

like many others here have said

kgb dedicates a lot of time to perfect his game. While playing with him, i've noticed he really cares about the game
(more than he should) than anything else.

To accuse walter, fine go for it. but to accuse kgb is like to accuse rapha.

Nomadic and clan 519 cunts, take your heads out of your asses please.

Bottom line, I really don't need to look at these demos to make a conclusion because I know how kgb plays and I've always known he doesn't cheat because at the time, I was capable to do the same.

(ps like how everyone defends kgb now) haha

<< Comment #368 @ 01:23 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

nard

and still Nomadic no where on the forums...
GET SHIT ON HAS BEEN THE COMMUNITY HAS SPOKEN

overturn the results!

much respect BLT

<< Comment #360 @ 00:56 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

rapha

This needs to get resolved quickly, give them there prizes they earned it. Like others have said, they were let in the tournament deal with personal feelings, give the owed prizes and move on. I hope there'd be a 2v2 tourney at qcon and these 2 would partner up again. There'd be no reason not to :)

7%

<< Comment #365 @ 01:21 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Nicky - Reply to #360

here here

<< Comment #505 @ 19:07 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

hoens - Reply to #365

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hear%20hear ffs

<< Comment #516 @ 23:40 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Nicky - Reply to #505

my bad :P

<< Comment #549 @ 14:26 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

hoens - Reply to #516

I accept your apology.

<< Comment #367 @ 01:23 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (71-14-114-084.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com)

This is the silliest shit I've seen in ages. After playing with kgb as a teammate at Qcon08, I can say 100% without a doubt, this guy is legit.

<< Comment #372 @ 01:36 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

G.I. Jonesy

Kgb and walter are hardcore gangster wrappers. Can't touch this.

<< Comment #374 @ 01:42 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

panSmasher

Thx for fighting for the admins ;o). I don't care for the US quake3 scene, and until few days ago, I've never heard of a player called kgb. So my opinion is unbiased. I watched the demos more then three times. Regardless of the good aim (we know what legitimate players like v3rb can do), kgb's dm7 has more than few situations that rise suspicion.. One doesn't rush into rooms like he did + he never gets punished for it. But with r_shownormals on, or the radar thingy, everything made sense. He just knew, there's noone camping the corner.

I'm not saying he did cheat or didn't, nothing was blatantly obvious to be sure, could've been luck or skill I don't have.
I'm trying to say that I understand the sponsor/admin/whoever to be lenient to give out prizes or prizemoney to players they don't trust to win fair.

If that doesn't make sense to some of you (the flamers), you need to grow up then ;o).

The obvious fail on admins side is only the fact that they do prizemoney tourney online.. they would never have the problem with lan tournament ;o). Or they could've done it invite only.

1%

<< Comment #456 @ 13:57 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

clan519 - Reply to #374

i just watched the demos, and with shownormals on its just sick how obvious it is.. not even the blatant few times where he shoots a wall trying to kill someone who is +walking with perfect timing, but the way he moves around the map. he _always_ knows when there is a camper and never gets caught off guard like that.. its just bullshit to the core. i can't believe anyone is defending a known hacker, it just boggles my mind.

<< Comment #378 @ 02:31 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Hockalugie

They got screwed

<< Comment #377 @ 02:31 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (c-24-7-180-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)

haha you guys are making walter seem like some unfortunate victim here. nomadic is the dick? walter has polluted this site with tons of retarded posts and talked shit to almost every top quake player in america. not that all of it was unreasonable, but the guy has no respect for anyone. i also saw some irc logs in which walter says he is going to break nomadic's nose at quakecon. get real walter, you can't even play a fucking computer game at a lan much less break someone's nose.

i don't know if walter or kgb cheat. i don't really care. what i do know is that veteran trustworthy quake players with solid reputations (zero4, viju, destrukt, chance, etc) all think that walter is bullshit. and their opinions are much more substantial to me than some schizophrenic drug addicted douche who rose to the top overnight yet has never been to a lan.

the only people i see defending walter constantly are nobodies i've never heard of (vedic comes to mind). not all, but a lot of these nobodies are also europeans or people from continents other than north america who have never even played walter. which means their opinions are worth less than a lump of shit.

i'm not saying nomadic and the others who were involved were right in their actions. but stop making walter into some kind of quake martyr. he has never placed well at a lan event and never will since he won't attend one. this should matter much more than walter and kgb losing out on a couple of hardware items they don't even need.

11%

<< Comment #389 @ 05:22 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Nuked User - Reply to #377

* N U K E D *

<< Comment #402 @ 07:41 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

skint - Reply to #377

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1661536#pid1661536

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1661097#pid1661097

<< Comment #405 @ 07:57 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #377

the only people i see defending walter constantly are nobodies i've never heard of (vedic comes to mind).

$$$$

<< Comment #434 @ 10:34 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

vedic - Reply to #377

Anonymous fails.

<< Comment #544 @ 13:09 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

guts - Reply to #434

you got served son!!!

<< Comment #545 @ 13:13 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

vedic - Reply to #544

A nobody trying to call people a nobody.

<< Comment #468 @ 14:46 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

xterm - Reply to #377

OK, let me throw in my 2 cents, I thought there were some "fishy" moments in this game, I was never 100% sure that he was wallhacking but those two moments as beef said were enough to cause some concern. I watched the demos multiple times from all POV's, Just telling you guys I was never 100% sure if cheats were involved or not.

<< Comment #513 @ 22:08 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

loveless - Reply to #377

brave post, anon!

<< Comment #664 @ 18:50 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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By

Dird - Reply to #377

chance's reputation got destroyed with one rail

<< Comment #381 @ 03:45 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Thorin

12 angry men: ESR edition

<< Comment #392 @ 05:41 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

spyteman - Reply to #381

good movie, also never leaves the room. kinda like esr nerds.

5%

<< Comment #393 @ 05:46 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Xhep

LOUD NOISES

<< Comment #395 @ 06:20 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

eThaD

As i understood kgb was accused for using wallhack. I watched q3dm7 demo at those times syn gave. Well, after he killed some1 at quad at 2:xx, he took the quad and was running for 20 second around the map searching for opponents(didnt find any). So, imho, this accusation is proofless and you must be a mental to say such bs.

Edited by eThaD at 06:21 CST, 22 February 2009

<< Comment #398 @ 07:01 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

riske_of_h8 - Reply to #395

He obviously only did it to "look legit".

<< Comment #400 @ 07:04 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

terrorhead - Reply to #395

Yeah I also noticed that. Looked like a wasted quad. They also think he was aimboting with mg and rg.

Edited by terrorhead at 07:05 CST, 22 February 2009

<< Comment #399 @ 07:04 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

bobbles

An admin was playing in the tournament... how the hell is THAT not cheating?

<< Comment #401 @ 07:22 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

riske_of_h8 - Reply to #399

He had no chance of winning, lol.

<< Comment #408 @ 08:04 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

MassMan - Reply to #399

In pretty much any clanbase teamplay tournament the admins are also playing. And the word you're looking for isn't "cheating", it's "biased".

<< Comment #427 @ 10:02 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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xou - Reply to #408

That's probably why cup & ladder supervisors aren't allowed to work on a case including their own clan.

Edited by xou at 10:08 CST, 22 February 2009

<< Comment #532 @ 05:57 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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MassMan - Reply to #427

However they are allowed to be admins on games directly or indirectly effecting their own clan.

<< Comment #533 @ 08:41 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

xou - Reply to #532

Maybe you should take some time to read the rules when you sign up for a cup. It's all there.

<< Comment #538 @ 10:05 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

MassMan - Reply to #533

Yes you are correct, it's clearly stated in the rules:

$1.3 Clanbase supervisors/admins reserve the right to bias as long as they also play in the cup they admin.

Also; http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1455995#pid1456184 comment #26 is a pretty clear "indication" of cb bias.

Edited by MassMan at 10:10 CST, 23 February 2009

<< Comment #539 @ 10:11 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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xou - Reply to #538

My grand mother whines a lot less than you :)

Check the "Supervisors" and "Referees" chapters. These may not have been the same when you played back in the days, but at least they've been here for a few seasons now.

<< Comment #403 @ 07:41 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

a1r-r41d

how the fuck can razer sponsor nomandic ?????

what did he archive in the past?? a good places in q4 with 24/7 time practice ???
HUUUH?? and in quake3???? 5 frags in a 2v2 game!!!!!

<< Comment #407 @ 08:02 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

fjorgyn - Reply to #403

he isnt sponsored by razer

he works for razer.

<< Comment #410 @ 08:19 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

ini - Reply to #407

He's an actual employee of Razer?

There goes any chance of me buying a Razer product any time soon. Any company who employs such a moron doesn't get to have my money.

<< Comment #412 @ 08:45 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

[mash] - Reply to #407

shit. now i have to find me a proper logitech mouse or smth. i'm sad.

<< Comment #422 @ 09:50 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

f0cus - Reply to #412

now that's just silly.

<< Comment #424 @ 09:57 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

[mash] - Reply to #422

tbh everyone should send razer hatemail about nomadic to get him unemployd. that would be fun.
have you ever heard of trolling?

<< Comment #425 @ 10:02 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #424

also: it's probably not as silly as getting your employer involved in some personal vendetta against someone YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW.

<< Comment #426 @ 10:02 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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f0cus - Reply to #424

I can't imagine you taking "now that's just silly" too seriously. 'Cause that would just be silly.

<< Comment #429 @ 10:07 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

[mash] - Reply to #426

u :E

<< Comment #467 @ 14:44 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

a1r-r41d - Reply to #407

ill smash my salmosa now

<< Comment #562 @ 17:18 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

eThaD - Reply to #467

mx300 is still better than salmosa (shape)

<< Comment #417 @ 09:18 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

666gad

griffin crying lame

<< Comment #414 @ 09:13 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

skint

so whens nomadic going to crawl out from his hole and comment?

<< Comment #419 @ 09:40 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Ryan2015

Lol why are all the anti walter comments posted anonymous rofl

i watched the game live and nobody there thought it was suspicious

oh well who cares esports is a joke anyway

<< Comment #431 @ 10:19 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

apoxic - Reply to #419

Its actually walter using a proxy. He likes the hate.

2%

<< Comment #430 @ 10:09 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

beefwellington

I've already spoke to kgb so he knows my opinion on this matter...

I respect both kgb and walter the same as any other player. I've heard some things about their past but never actually seen any proof from the past showing they hack. They are both skilled players who dominated with map control on DM7 and I give them props for that.

I've watched the demo numerous times with and without shownormals as well as from all 4 players perspectives. The majority of the match looked legit except the two time marks Syn mentioned, 2:36 and 5:23, did not add up in in my opinion. I viewed that situation from kgb, walter, and griffin's POV's with headphones of course and there was just no way they could have heard griffin coming at those times. With shownormals on, these two situations made perfect sense as you could clearly see griffin basically walking into a trap. However, I can not deny the strong possibility those kills were the result of spamming "at the right place at the right time". I've seen shots made like that in the past and I've done them myself in numerous games where I ask myself afterward, "how the hell did i make that?"

I also agree with Syn that a unanimous decision should have been reached before releasing a press release. Nomadic did not want to carry this review on for days which is totally understandable since it does not need a week of review to reach a conclusion. If a press release was released the middle of next week, it would be even more WTF. I'm not saying this was a rushed decision or that we had a "time limit" to make it. I think he felt we had enough discussion and since we had reviewed it for a few days, it was necessary to release a PR.

If I've made a mistake with my decision and kgb/walter showed an Anderson Silva-esque performance, then I apologize for my misjudgment. Congrats.

To Syn: Thanks for putting together a great tournament. It's unfortunate things blew up like they did especially in your transition to your new apartment, it's the last thing you need.

To the players: Thanks for participating in the tournament and I hope you all had great time regardless of the current situation. If you haven't already, I ask that you thank Syn for organizing this competition and running GTV. I don't want his time and effort overshadowed by this.

<< Comment #428 @ 10:07 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

xou

First Zubich 's cheating then Nomadic's fiasco, Razer must not be so proud if any of their dudes care.

Edited by xou at 10:07 CST, 22 February 2009

<< Comment #432 @ 10:24 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Vo0

Nomadic is a lump of shit

8%

<< Comment #435 @ 10:43 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

nk121

See what happens when you mix business with pleasure.

<< Comment #437 @ 10:54 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

cha0ticz

I reviewed the DM7 demos and both times could be considered a 'good time to spam' since a) quad was about to spawn and walter/kgb had a good idea where btl/griffin were and b) as someone above pointed out it had been a very slow game for a while and you have to think that blt/griffin might be getting anxious. Again, as someone pointed out, it would be dumb to just blindly walk to RL and into a trap so firing first was a pretty good tactic.

If this is the only evidence they have then I would have to agree with (mostly) everyone, there's not enough here to DQ them.

10%

<< Comment #441 @ 12:01 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

everkill - Reply to #437

Very well said cha0ticz, I agree 100%. I don't see how any half decent Quake 3 player can't agree with cha0ticz's explanation. Its always a good idea to spam that area every now and then when you have been controlling the RA and you haven't heard from the other team in a while. We all know that on DM7, when 1 team has full RA control, the other team will ALWAYS be making attempts to walk silently around that corner (from RL to RA) to check and see whats going on or to maybe catch someone up close with RL.

In one of those "suspicious situations", kgb didn't even hit either of the rockets he fired. It was just random corner spam and griffin happened to be there, its called playing smart. I'm pretty sure if he had been wallhacking, he would have hit at least one of those rockets, instead of just randomly spamming 2 rockets, missing both, then +backing with rail.

Also, its possible that blt was creating a diversion at the quad entrance so griffin could sneak up and get either kgb or walter from behind while they were watching for blt at the quad entrance, and kgb realized this and decided to spam the sneak up spot.

Still no proof either, just opinion? What a joke this is.

Either way, I personally will no longer be purchasing Razer products if this is how they conduct themselves as event sponsors. Its unfortunate that volunteers like Syn are able to act in a more professional capacity than a company like Razer. I just don't see how Razer expects to maintain their credibility and integrity as a legitimate pro gaming products company if they start to arbitrarily disqualify winners and let the personal interests if their staff come into play.

1%

<< Comment #442 @ 12:14 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

vedic - Reply to #441

If you have an issue with Razer or nomadic:

http://www.razersupport.com/index.php?_m=tickets&_a=submit

<< Comment #462 @ 14:25 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

riske_of_h8 - Reply to #442

Just mailed them, thanks for the link. I hope more people will do the same.

<< Comment #463 @ 14:26 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

scorch- - Reply to #441

nomadic was hardly the only admin involved in this decision. i like how you guys are saying that razer is in the wrong here because a member of their staff followed the same trial decision rules that the majority of states in the US follow in civil cases. ya gg a 2/3 majority is pretty standard here boys. seriously, you're gonna stop buying a product because of this?

<< Comment #466 @ 14:41 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #463

Nomadic was the only one offering his opinion on the demo to that supposed jury. There is a reason for "due process", which they failed to use or understand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_many_questions

Walter pulled up some demos of another player and pointed out locations that looked fishy in the demos. Simply by leading people to believe that it COULD happen, they saw what was implied by the supposition that there was something to see there. You can literally find "suspicious" events in almost every high-level demo ever.

If Razer were to employ such a a person who would do this, especially if they KNEW about it, why would you want to continue to support them? Would you hold it against me if I paid someone to come kick your ass? It wasn't me, right? We're still pals?

<< Comment #484 @ 15:45 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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scorch- - Reply to #466

due process is a requirement of governments, not organizations that are running free events where they give away money.

if you believe that the entire group of admins meeting and coming to a 4:2 decision after reviewing all of the available evidence isn't due process then you need to leave the basement and see how rights are actually enforced in the US.

if you are trying to convince me that Razer didn't act with due diligence in choosing admins for a free event, once again, leave the basement.

If you hate nomadic, I don't really care, sure why not... but stop trying to convince people that Razer is somehow liable for their choice of admins.

<< Comment #486 @ 15:58 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #484

due process is a requirement of governments, not organizations that are running free events where they give away money.

I wasn't the one to make the claim: "However after due process, the votes had been made in form of a court rule which favored expulsion."

if you believe that the entire group of admins meeting and coming to a 4:2 decision after reviewing all of the available evidence isn't due process then you need to leave the basement and see how rights are actually enforced in the US.

Or maybe you should learn a little bit about how the law works instead of flaunting your degree in CSI: Miami. The university of cable TV is not recognized in the real world.

if you are trying to convince me that Razer didn't act with due diligence in choosing admins for a free event, once again, leave the basement.

Excellent argument. It was a magnificent choice to both have a person who is openly biased against walter not only judge the tournament, but play in it against him. Stellar job, that.

If you hate nomadic, I don't really care, sure why not... but stop trying to convince people that Razer is somehow liable for their choice of admins.

You're right - a company shouldn't be liable for anything that their employees do. Anything done by proxy, no matter the intentions, should be fair game.

Here's an honest question for you: What grade are you in?

<< Comment #489 @ 16:21 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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scorch- - Reply to #486

you're using a statement made by FRAG DOMINANT to impugn RAZER's reputation.

unless there's something extraordinary about this situation, Razer simply chose a staff member with experience in the quake community to act as their liaison to this event. you're being ridiculous if you're extending liability to the organization for its failure to know about a staff member's personal conflict with some cheating kid on the internet, but whatever that's your choice.

as for CSI and asking me my grade level in the same post... i didn't know people under the age of 65 watched CBS.

Edited by scorch- at 16:22 CST, 22 February 2009

<< Comment #490 @ 16:25 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #489

unless there's something extraordinary about this situation, Razer simply chose a staff member with experience in the quake community to act as their liaison to this event.

Right, and it wasn't a great move. However, it would be a bad move at this point to keep him on board for anything in the future.

you're being ridiculous if you're extending liability to the organization for its failure to know about a staff member's personal conflict with some cheating kid on the internet, but whatever that's your choice.

This is what a job interview is for. Generally, when you go out and get a job, there's an entire department dedicated just to doing a background check on you before you are accepted. Sweet, huh?

<< Comment #492 @ 16:29 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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scorch- - Reply to #490

yes, carrying out a background check on whether this possible employee has a personal conflict with someone somewhere. do you even realize how ridiculous you sound right now?

Edited by scorch- at 16:30 CST, 22 February 2009

<< Comment #494 @ 16:35 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #492

So you're saying that it would be a good move to hire someone to represent a community, despite not knowing anything about that community, or the history of the player in question?

Man, you're going to be so disappointed when you go out to get your first job. My employer knows more about my medical history than I do.

<< Comment #497 @ 16:57 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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scorch- - Reply to #494

no, i'm saying that no company is going to not hire an employee on the basis of the fact that they have a personal conflict with a single person somewhere in their world.

<< Comment #498 @ 17:01 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #497

It's nice to think that the world could work like that, but it doesn't. Let me guess - McCain supporter?

<< Comment #499 @ 17:06 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

scorch- - Reply to #498

why bother posting if you don't have an actual argument to make?

<< Comment #501 @ 17:08 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

vedic - Reply to #499

Works for you.

1%

<< Comment #665 @ 18:54 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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Dird - Reply to #484

save the lecture until you close guantanamo

<< Comment #455 @ 13:50 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #437

Given the fact that kgb has hacked in the past, I would be suspicious of him in any online tourney. Hell, if it were up to me I wouldn't let him in any tourney ever. He used to bot people, and now he 'just' wallhacks? Great fucking reason to just turn a blind eye. I think any remote suspicion of kgb is full grounds for dismissal, given his rep. Sorry, just do.

<< Comment #461 @ 14:11 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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jone - Reply to #455

you really don't have any proof that he hacks or anything. The only mediocre proof you have, is you trying compare his aim to a bot.

Let it be known, the more you practice with a specific weapon, the more better you're going to get. And If I remember correctly his weapon of choice has always been lg.

<< Comment #475 @ 15:11 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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hoens - Reply to #437

To be honest, I'm quite saddened by this.

If the admins though that the players were cheating, then why haven't they released evidence ala clanbase with their screenshots by Sombra, or the vods of that Russian? Why is this all cloak and dagger? Why let them play if mere suspicion was enough to forfeit them? It just looks really bad for the admins.

In the end, however, this hurts the community the most. I had a lot of fun playing in this tournament giving Jared bad posture. CQ3 2v2 is so much more enjoyable to VQ3 and CPM that it's not even funny. With some minor tweaks it would be just an outstanding gameplay.

Not only that but the tournament was run extremely well, and everything went off without much of a hitch besides 519 causing another delay in a game, thereby costing us 3rd place. Steve, Beef, and Syn did a great job throughout the tournament, and were extremely fair and balanced admins who let the players play.

In spite of all of that, the great games that were played, the casts that were listened to, the only thing this tournament will be remembered for is this final incident. An incident that really had no business happening. That upsets me the most, and I have the most to gain out of this. Not only am I gifted 3rd place, but people will forget how fucking terrible I was during the tournament. In all a great scenario for me, but one I feel is undeserved, and unwarranted.

18%

<< Comment #480 @ 15:30 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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{DFM} conundrum519 - Reply to #475

I have to admit, that is some deft optimism.

<< Comment #515 @ 22:20 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #475

glad to hear it!
'=] you're okay in my book

<< Comment #447 @ 13:02 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (ns2.3lite.net)

$40,000/year vs $900 stuff

Yeah, since that makes total sense to try to get him fired.

<< Comment #452 @ 13:12 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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everkill - Reply to #447

Huh? English maybe?

I don't think anyone wants to see someone lose their job over this, but I seriously doubt that Razer appreciates the negative publicity they are receiving over this. Just assign a different community liaison.

<< Comment #531 @ 04:39 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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funnyb - Reply to #452

i would love seeing him lose his job

<< Comment #450 @ 13:06 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #447

Cry more, nomadick.

<< Comment #448 @ 13:03 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

everkill

Seems to me like there should be a call from the community to Razer to remove nomadic as the community liaison. How on earth can you play in the tournament, admin the tournament and provide sponsorship for the tournament without conflict of interest coming into play?

I have never had any issue or problem with nomadic or Razer before but this is ridiculous. The level of professionalism displayed throughout this whole conflict has been pathetic.

I wonder if Razer is aware of this whole situation.

<< Comment #451 @ 13:11 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

csmfromengland

i don't think anyone cares enough to submit a ticket on behalf of a player they don't personally know, which i'm sure applies to most people here.

it's obvious people have an issue with razer/nomadic. the point is due diligence must be provided when you have individuals making executive decisions such as this one. the onus is on razer/nomadic to provide such evidence, not for community members to take it up with them privately.

the public outrage is justified and keeping the community in the dark over something so controversial isn't going to help.

a very embarrassing situation for razer...

<< Comment #453 @ 13:17 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

andysak

Absolute bias and complete joke.

Regardless of what the outcome, anyone affiliated with the tournament in any way that can make such a decision shouldn't even be playing in it in the first place...

Terrible.

For the record I don't believe either of these players cheat, I have played walter in CPM. He does nothing "special" or "suspicious". I have watched kgb on lan and destrukt put it best, he does have some ridiculous aim.

2%

<< Comment #457 @ 14:01 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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Anonymous (ip-62-143-211-73.unitymediagroup.de) - Reply to #453

ok then,
but that 0.5 seconds of shaft on the pelvis of the guy coming on the jumppad is a moment that should give everyone to think.
as predictable a player taking a jumppad may fly, this stuff is not possible.
519 provided actual proof with his little movie.
and walter imo is a designated cheater.
funny how many americans and canadians seem to have registered only to take part in this discussion..
not u jelly!

p.s.: BUMP

<< Comment #460 @ 14:05 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #457

and walter imo is a designated cheater.

Your opinion means jack shit here.

Edited by Vedic at 14:08 CST, 22 February 2009

<< Comment #483 @ 15:44 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #457

but that 0.5 seconds of shaft on the pelvis of the guy coming on the jumppad is a moment that should give everyone to think.

519 provided actual proof with his little movie.

lmao, gtfo. i bet i could find 5000 "0.5sec moments" in a million demos of every toptier player in the past 10yrs.
proof?

(i cba tho)

Edited by [mash] at 15:46 CST, 22 February 2009

<< Comment #496 @ 16:51 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #483

please, DO IT.. find a top player who tracks dead center in someone's model like that. guaranfuckingtee it doesn't exist.

<< Comment #472 @ 14:58 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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{DFM} conundrum519

Well. I just don't know how to feel about this.

<< Comment #479 @ 15:21 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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Raist - Reply to #472

You are a hybrid of dfm and 519, pretty sure that would tear a guy's mind apart :D

<< Comment #506 @ 19:36 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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DaHanG - Reply to #479

hahahahah

<< Comment #576 @ 02:22 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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Raist - Reply to #506

Yo Tim how have you been?

<< Comment #474 @ 15:10 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (h-66-166-183-132.atlngahp.covad.net)

nomadic is on irc.gamesurge.net right now #fd.q3cup
EVERYONE GO FLAME HIM in PrivMsg and in the main channel.

<< Comment #481 @ 15:34 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

beefwellington

I've already stated my opinion on this matter and after reading comments from dkt, voo, gelleh, cha0ticz, etc have said about the strategy for this map, those two moments in question make total sense to me now. I never doubted kgb's accuracy or weapon skill. It's already been stated he's proven his talent in that area.

I made an error with my judgment and I'd like to apologize to both kgb and walter for the trouble they have gone through the past few days. You two proved you deserve the rewards for your work. Unfortunately, that decision is out of my hands.

<< Comment #477 @ 15:20 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

flowrush

Overturn the overtunred decision and eject Nomadic from the tourney and all future tourney's as an admin.

<< Comment #487 @ 15:58 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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[mash]

thought this one might cheer everyone up.

Edited by [mash] at 15:59 CST, 22 February 2009

<< Comment #493 @ 16:32 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #487

i think this is hilarious.

Edited by [mash] at 16:32 CST, 22 February 2009

<< Comment #491 @ 16:25 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

vamp1re

"No way he's cheating"
"No you can't take away their victory through suspicion"
"Maybe he could be cheating"
"I guess it's possible he's cheating"
"Those two situations seem a little fishy"

"HE IS DEFINITELY CHEATING" - Nomadick

<< Comment #500 @ 17:06 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

pl4gue

this is getting way out of hand...

<< Comment #502 @ 17:41 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

-Muse-

Seeing as the thread has already hit 490+ comments, I won't regurgitate the same tired arguments. Although it is worth emphasizing that even blt says there�s nothing to be disputed here.

He had hardware issues and couldn't resolve them before the match. He, at no point, requested the game be rescheduled because of it. They played unprepared, they lost, game over. Walter and kgb played well and with the comfortable team work that comes from years of training together.

Imho, that should be an important point for those making the decisions here. That aside, the innumerable mistakes made in coming to this decision should be enough to negate the disqualification.

Regardless, it should never have gotten this out of hand. I sincerely hope, for all involved, that the powers that be reverse the decision as soon as possible and prevent further damage to our community on the whole.

<< Comment #507 @ 19:40 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

legion_alien

I am simply going to bullet my involvement.

1. No secret, KGB and I have not gotten along.

2. I never reff'ed one match for this event (due to baby)

3. I will not bash nomadic for a decision he felt was the right decision.

4. Has KGB cheated in the past? YES.

5. Was I asked if KGB should even be included? Yes and my answer was 'yes', but expect drama.

6. Is KGB a good player. Yes.

7. Is there anyone out there that cares more about winning and improving their game then KGB? Not in my opinion.

8. Was PB on the servers? No (I realize it does not really matter)

9. Did I suggest that my vote not be counted? Yes

10. Did I ask to view the demos without knowing any of the suspected time (so that I could remain as unbiased as possible). YES

11. Have any of you heard of the 'applebot'? Most of you have not. ;)

12. Did I propose a unanimous decision be reached to make judgement. YES

13. Do I believe that KGB/Walter possibly used a wall hack? Yes.

14. Do I believe that KGB/Walter should have been stripped of their prizes? No.

So..these are just some of the issues that many of us Admins had to weigh in on. It was not as simple as some may think and it certainly was not biased on my part of the part of 5 of the 6 admins that I know personally. (I do not know nomadic well enough to make the judgement).

Would I have done things differently... for sure, but it was not my tournament.

This will continue to happen in online events and drama will always follow both KGB and walter wherever they go, but I do feel that it is a sad deal for KGB. As much as I hate him sometimes, I do feel for the guy and have respect for him as a competitor (most times) and person. Believe it or not.
walter, I can not comment on.. as the only reason I know him is from his mouth that is constantly spewing crap. But..that is online esports at its best.

Alien

<< Comment #510 @ 21:08 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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kgb - Reply to #507

4. Has KGB cheated in the past? YES.

I like your post but I have never hacked, nor have a downloaded a hack before....ever. Nor do I even know how to spot a hacker. I find it funny how everyone has a wealth of hack/hack catcher knowledge except for me but I am the hack master somehow. Funny how that works. I didn't own a computer until I got quake3 on pc around late 2002

P.S. If you consider using thin LG(at least 1/4 of qcon 2k6 contests used) a cheat, get real.

17%

<< Comment #514 @ 22:11 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #510

wow dude.. just.. wow. so did napalm3d ever download a hack? he's dfm. how about pyro? how do you explain the movie/demo i posted, where it appears that your cursor becomes glued to the enemy player model? i mean, maybe napalm3d got into your computer and installed hacks that you didn't know about?

<< Comment #519 @ 00:16 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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sepht - Reply to #514

I can explain the movie/demo you posted --
Nothing is glued to anything. You watched someone good aim, congrats.

<< Comment #530 @ 03:43 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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oreozz - Reply to #514

You're really obsessed about this it's kind of nasty to read all of your posts!

<< Comment #535 @ 09:35 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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a1r-r41d - Reply to #514

so all of Sombras team mates are cheaters coz he cheated? fuckin idiot

<< Comment #561 @ 17:09 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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Anonymous (adsl-75-5-158-125.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) - Reply to #514

Wow Glad I got some love in this post and no I have never cheated. You really are just that bad... This is pyro by the way. Also I showed up at qcon in 2008 and thought I performed pretty good and I can't wait to attend my next tournament!

<< Comment #524 @ 02:45 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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Anonymous (ip-62-143-211-73.unitymediagroup.de) - Reply to #510

sure, i belive you more, you who teams up with one of the most fucked up individuals to ever own a cmputer -> WALTER
the admin blaming you and consider you a cheater are of course far less trustworthy...

i want to punch you but i�m too far away :(

<< Comment #525 @ 02:46 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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Nicky - Reply to #524

"i want to punch you but i�m too far away :( "

well isnt that just childish lol

<< Comment #526 @ 02:48 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #524

the admin blaming you and consider you a cheater are of course far less trustworthy...

you're a fucking moron, too.

<< Comment #542 @ 12:40 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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Anonymous (c-76-109-97-109.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) - Reply to #510

You're in the "we're better because we hack" clan, home to the ex-naesports anti-cheat admin who hung out with micr0n. And you teamed with Walter, who other things aside, acts schizo. How could you ever expect that stuff to cause rumors or problems or lead to anything, I mean really, just how?

<< Comment #623 @ 05:35 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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Anonymous (c-68-44-106-127.hsd1.de.comcast.net) - Reply to #510

Sounds like a witch hunt to me! Grats on your win and other Q3 success, KGB. People need to lay off the sour grapes and give a man props (read: phat lewts) sometimes.

Having said that - you cheated in my tourney and you know it!!

[B]Coca-Cola

see ya'll in qlive.

<< Comment #610 @ 19:59 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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jone - Reply to #507

4. Has KGB cheated in the past? YES.

6. Is KGB a good player. Yes.

I'm confused. He is a good player because he cheats? or..

<< Comment #508 @ 20:00 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Mileena

There's a lot of samefagging in here, KGB, is that you?

<< Comment #509 @ 20:03 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #508

Go back to 4chan, fag.

11%

<< Comment #511 @ 21:57 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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Mileena - Reply to #509

no u

<< Comment #512 @ 22:05 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #511

To make up for your fail, here are ninjas on rollerskates:

4%

<< Comment #577 @ 02:28 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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Raist - Reply to #512

Uh what movie is that... this is great, gotta watch it!

<< Comment #612 @ 21:04 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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Clov3r - Reply to #508

nope, that's gotenks

<< Comment #614 @ 21:19 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #612

what's the difference?

<< Comment #615 @ 22:13 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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Clov3r - Reply to #614

aside from age, skill and skin color? gotenks lives in Vancouver and mostly plays west coast servers and KGB lives in Tennessee and plays central and east coast servers.

<< Comment #616 @ 22:19 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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vedic - Reply to #615

what the fuck are you on about?

<< Comment #617 @ 22:34 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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Clov3r - Reply to #616

no u.

<< Comment #618 @ 22:49 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

vedic - Reply to #617

Thread you meant to reply to is that way --->

<< Comment #622 @ 05:34 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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jone - Reply to #615

Forgot to add, I haven't played Q3/QL since june 08.

<< Comment #650 @ 00:10 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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Clov3r - Reply to #622

<3

<< Comment #518 @ 23:58 CST, 22 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (ool-4353668e.dyn.optonline.net)

Lmao how you gunna let walter and KGB join a tournament in the first place, two of the most known "hackers"....then when they win take away their prizes? Very unprofessional...like walter said earlier this is why people cant take e-sports serious.

<< Comment #559 @ 16:49 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #518

of course, let's ignore the fact that KGB is lan proven, read destrukt's post

<< Comment #570 @ 20:34 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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apoxic - Reply to #559

Sombra

<< Comment #571 @ 22:29 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #570

yes, Sombra did cheat online, so there's always exception to the rule in some cases
but
the point here is KGB's aim, which has proven to be good on lan and online

<< Comment #574 @ 01:20 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #571

how are you so sure? i posted a video and a demo where kgb repeatedly rage bots chance because he can't stand being a fucking newbie at 1v1, so he bots the fuck out of a known player and wins, in an online tourney, for money. did you watch the demo? did you see the clip i posted? did you watch kgb's crosshair gut someone open from halfway across the map with close tracking that highly resembles every other bot you will see? stop with the denial already.

<< Comment #578 @ 02:33 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #574

you sound like a Scientologist
"what are your crimes? what are your crimes? what are your crimes? what are your crimes? "

<< Comment #594 @ 12:54 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #578

you sound like a blind person

<< Comment #605 @ 15:49 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #594

wasn't aware that blind people sounded any different from a person with vision.
the blind are very well capable of living normal, fulfilling lives.

<< Comment #606 @ 17:23 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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per1klez - Reply to #605

Ever heard of metaphor?

Apparently not, try reading a book.

<< Comment #611 @ 20:32 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #606

i read plenty, but do not enjoy most fiction
like some posts in this thread

4%

<< Comment #520 @ 00:44 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

nemes1s

Drama drama drama...

<< Comment #521 @ 01:52 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

lewl

I think the new winners of this cup should re-distribute the prizes according to first outcome.

<< Comment #523 @ 02:22 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

spammah

Hope griffin/blt and whaz/plague dun play their finals just to indicate a huge fuck you to nomadicunt.

<< Comment #534 @ 09:13 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

Derb_

who's gay here?

<< Comment #653 @ 02:45 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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Lo - Reply to #534

the guy with the rainbow flag.

3%

<< Comment #536 @ 09:36 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

a1r-r41d

SHOW UP NOMANDICK!!!!

<< Comment #537 @ 09:45 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

Lsv

This thread is so awesome. omfg. I'm getting a huge stiffy watching all the faggots rage. Omfg where's ninex I need to be satisfied.

<< Comment #540 @ 12:12 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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nineX - Reply to #537

Right here Luis

Edited by nineX at 12:14 CST, 23 February 2009

<< Comment #543 @ 12:48 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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butcher_kgp ' - Reply to #540

cpm pervs trollin here

<< Comment #546 @ 13:37 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

nineX

But in all seriousness now, this is a pretty crappy move by nomadic. While I have had spats with walter in the past and haven't been the lightest of critics of kgb, I do think they are getting screwed. There is obviously a lack of evidence that anything wrong actually occurred, and yet they are still being punished for nothing more than playing a game very well.

This not only is just a pitiful attempt at revenge for whatever the two did to piss off nomadic, but it's also setting a poor precident for competitive Quake. I mean, all positive attention from the great coverage and media attention the tournament was getting before this has all been deflated with these latest actions. In a community where competitive play is already hard to find, nomadic has set competitive deathmatch back to when WSVG decided to end it's LAN series for Quake 4. It really is sad that a single decision, from someone who shouldn't even be making that decision, can mar such a great event like the 2v2 tournament.

This tournament was doing a great job of trying to bring back actual prizes to North American Quake, and now due to the decision by nomadic, I would be surprised if sponsors EVER offered prizes for online tournements again. Syn, you did a great job with the tournament and coverage over at www.QuakeScene.com ; keep up the good work. Alien, bring Quake back to GGL; they miss eachother. Nomadic, there are reasons why many tournaments put clauses in the rules about admins playing in tournaments, and you have only given them a reason to put that line in BOLD now; please remove yourself from the admin team of any future tournaments or any important decision making position. You are obviously not fit to make them.

Edited by nineX at 13:38 CST, 23 February 2009

21%

<< Comment #553 @ 15:10 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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per1klez - Reply to #546

wow ninex, did kgb get to you too? That fag has been going around irc trying to bully people into siding with him on here. He's messaged me threatening me that if i didn't publically denounce nomadic and support him he'd no longer talk to me or have anything to do with me. And i don't even know this fag.. and if you read the announcement the decision was reached off of a vote you dumb shit..

<< Comment #556 @ 15:34 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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nineX - Reply to #553

HAHAHAHAH, nah. I have not had a chance to speak with kgb since the announcement Friday. I did get to talk with walter Friday night, who is obviously pretty upset about the situation, and rightfully so.

I tried to keep the past in the past when I watched demos from each of their matches and watch them as if it were cooller and jibo or toxjc and ztrider. It is simply 2 players outperforming their opponents.

Again, I don't think the right decision was made. Logic and fairness were obviously not applied to this situation and it's unfortunate for these two players had to suffer for it.

<< Comment #654 @ 02:48 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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Lo - Reply to #553

lies

Edited by Lo at 02:49 CST, 26 February 2009

<< Comment #554 @ 15:16 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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clan519 - Reply to #546

Whoa whoa whoa.. so you think that after reviewing demos a team of admins who make a decision based on, what I can only believe to be strong evidence of wallhacking, are completely out of line and should just hand prizes over to known cheaters? Lordy.. thats sick dude.

Think how you would feel competing in something and finding out the people who beat you not only cheated to win, but were allowed to do so because it was felt to be 'okay' that they may have cheated. Fuck that shit.

<< Comment #555 @ 15:26 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #554

The only "evidence" for a cheat exists in your head, mate. and i'm not saying walter NEVER cheated; tf would i know. He and kgb didn't cheat in this tournament and that's the end of the story ... sorry.

Edited by [mash] at 15:36 CST, 23 February 2009

<< Comment #557 @ 15:34 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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per1klez - Reply to #555

mash your mom just called, she needs you to take out the trash asap.

<< Comment #582 @ 06:45 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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Anonymous (proxy1.sun.ac.za) - Reply to #557

wow nice one dude, sure told him

<< Comment #568 @ 19:04 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (adsl-75-5-158-125.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) - Reply to #554

Have you ever played vq3??

<< Comment #591 @ 11:10 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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everkill - Reply to #546

Well said.

I cannot believe that nomadic was allowed to play, admin and represent the sponsor. Conflict of interest anyone? In any other kind of professional capacity, this would have never happened. It makes competitive gaming and Razer look like complete jokes.

<< Comment #547 @ 14:07 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

Lsv

I just came my pants.

<< Comment #560 @ 16:51 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

loveless - Reply to #547

did you just eat a grape?

<< Comment #564 @ 18:12 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

xero- ' - Reply to #560

no, he ate a dick

<< Comment #565 @ 18:13 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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loveless - Reply to #564

makes sense

<< Comment #563 @ 17:50 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

xero- '

nomadick idiotmoded but anyone that agrees to play with gillz must be an utter idiot

14%

<< Comment #566 @ 18:24 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

erok - Reply to #563

^^THIS SUMS UP EVERYTHING

<< Comment #569 @ 20:10 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

Lsv

lol this thread is hilarious

<< Comment #660 @ 16:44 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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By

xero- ' - Reply to #569

want to scissor?

<< Comment #572 @ 23:04 CST, 23 February 2009 >>

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By

judge717

the ultimate troll thread

<< Comment #573 @ 00:24 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

Fraggie

Is this the thread where i can ask for a quakelive beta key?

<< Comment #575 @ 02:22 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

apoxic - Reply to #573

Yes, but soon after it will be taken away from you. Later, videos of how you did the shady deal, even though no one will recognize that it is in fact you on the videos.

Dundundundunnnn~

<< Comment #579 @ 04:58 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (c-68-47-225-31.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)

im so glad someone was finally able to do something about that shit.

ive been noticing that kind of shit in the way a lot of people have been playing this game the past couple years, and ive tried to tell anyone that would listen about it, but nobody would.

finally someone got caught and punished for using... whatever that shit is.

the way walter plays its been obvious to me for a long time...hes right in the game one second then completely oblivious to everything thats going on the next...not seeing players right beside him. missing totally easy shots regularly, then hitting completely impossible shots regularly. pulling off to the side when someone is right in front of him one fight and missing, then railing one pixel of a hitbox from across the map in the next. wide shots in an open LOS fight then "lucky" shots right out of doorways or in between the narrowest of openings the next. nobody can be that shitty and that awesome at the same time unless theyre up to something and doing it on purpose to cover up.

come on... how can so many people have been so blind to this shit for so long? open your fucking eyes.

<< Comment #580 @ 06:38 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

LoCK - Reply to #579

Got caught? What is it with you anonymous and not getting the concept of EVIDENCE?! ffs

<< Comment #584 @ 07:42 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

Reyn1r - Reply to #580

the EVIDENCE is in the SHIT!!! ... what ever that shit is.

But yes, really this is simple. Doesn't matter if they/him think there's a top secret us programmer making specialiced amazing awesome hacks for these guys. There seems to be no proof, at least nothing convincing enough. It's the weakness of online competition.. nothing new.

oh.. and that a guy playing in the competition has the power to take the prizes off the winners is lol.

5%

<< Comment #583 @ 07:05 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

becks - Reply to #579

I hear his mother has red hair and collects herbs in the woods.

<< Comment #585 @ 07:53 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

riske_of_h8

is this decision really going to stick?

<< Comment #588 @ 10:08 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

[mash] - Reply to #585

apparently.
i also send a ticket to the razer Public Relations support.
i just hope it's not nomadic sitting behind that desk. :D:D

<< Comment #600 @ 14:21 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

riske_of_h8 - Reply to #588

i also mailed them, though i only received a rather dull formal response that more admins were involved in the decision. :(

<< Comment #603 @ 15:11 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

[mash] - Reply to #600

We have received your inquiry and will respond back to you shortly. Response time may be delayed on weekends and holidays or according to the amount of inquires we get on a given day. To ensure your query gets the prompt attention it deserves, we have assigned it a TicketID. You can find it in the subject line of this email. Please use it on all correspondence to us on this query. Please visit our Knowledgebase Section for a possible solution to your queries.

<< Comment #604 @ 15:25 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

per1klez - Reply to #603

LOL @ you two, what a joke. Get out of the house and get a life please.

<< Comment #636 @ 13:23 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

riske_of_h8 - Reply to #604

I'd say the same to you, except I'd have to replace house with trailer.

<< Comment #628 @ 10:44 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

riske_of_h8 - Reply to #603

yeah that one came first, be patient for one better to rage-reply to.

<< Comment #651 @ 00:30 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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By

Nicky - Reply to #585

read comments #637, #638 & #643

<< Comment #586 @ 09:23 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

gSTRUCTOR '

Ticket ID: NZN-776484
Department: Suggestions/Feedback
Full Name: xxxxxx xxxxxxx
Email: [email protected]
Priority: High
Quake3: FD 2v2 Cup Fiasco

Dear Razer,

Im was a proud fan of your products, till now. I cant believe that you have Nomadic as admin of the tourney in first place. Hes an average player at best, but a total disaster as an admin as this affair has shown, hes known in the community to be very cocky and jealous. He did a witch hunt with kgb/Walter, accusing them of cheating in the finals of the FragDominant 2v2 Cup without providing solid evidence.

This is the kind of stuff that makes esports a joke, and lower the image of any soposor associated. I hope this decision will be revoked.

Sincerely,
xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx

<< Comment #589 @ 10:41 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

dknighto - Reply to #586

Dear Razer,

Thank you for putting up thousands of dollars worth of prizes for an online tourney that had less competitors than your average local junior high swim meet.

When suspected cheaters kgb/walter ran away with the tourney, your admin Nomadic threw a hissy fit and got them disqualified. This does not conform to the official 50 reasons to throw hissy fits that the rest of the Quake community observes.

There was no solid evidence of kgb/walter cheating. Sure they only use rail, lg, and sg. And yes, their online dominance has not been replicated on LAN. And sure, they shoot about 90% rail when they have quad and then selectively between 10% and 60% when they don't. And yes, kgb may have tried to shoot griffin through a wall. But none of this is absolute proof, therefore they 100% legit and beyond question. This is the biggest injustice I've seen since Mark McGuire's first hall of fame ballot!!

In conclusion, I'd like to remind you that no matter how much you support esports, how much prize money you put out there, or how good you make your products, if one thing goes wrong in the smallest scale tournament you would bother with, the community will take a big steaming dump all over you and make you regret your sponsorship in the first place.

We look forward to your future sponsorship.

Sincerely,

The Quake Esports Community

7%

<< Comment #596 @ 13:02 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

clan519 - Reply to #589

jesus christ its so true its just sad...

<< Comment #671 @ 13:29 CDT, 9 April 2009 >>

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By

Cloud - Reply to #596

100%

<< Comment #641 @ 18:32 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

luKrek - Reply to #589

I've accidently tried to shoot through walls and roofs loads of times, just by their sound. I even shoot straight backwards just from hearing "something", and I get to hear "omg cheat" from it.
It does not make me a cheater though.

<< Comment #669 @ 07:31 CST, 3 March 2009 >>

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By

gSTRUCTOR ' - Reply to #589

"In conclusion, I'd like to remind you that no matter how much you support esports, how much prize money you put out there, or how good you make your products," --->
---> you have to be very careful about the admins you chose, known biased players from the community should be avoided as admins, moreso if they are also competing.

there fixed for you

<< Comment #587 @ 09:32 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

rupertt

why does this remind me of the michael jackson trail?
or oj for that matter.
either way the fans think he's innocent.

damned if i know.

... but walter will prove to everyone he's legit when he enters his first lan.

1%

<< Comment #595 @ 12:55 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

linged - Reply to #587

The accusations are against KGB and not Walter, and KGB has lanned several times while showing monster aim.

I've seen about ten american topplayers confirm that KGB:s lanaim is awsome in this thread.
This is something a guy like 519 might want to think about.

<< Comment #598 @ 13:51 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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dknighto - Reply to #595

I think people are missing the issue on this burden of proof a bit. People aren't questioning the fact that KGB can aim. If that were the case, then yeah, show up at a LAN, make some good shots, dude can play, gg.

What people are questioning is the legitimacy of kgb and walter's domination of the top LAN talent online. Walter hasn't gone to a competitive LAN. KGB was at qcon and did well in CTF, but being a dominating TDM and 1v1 player does not follow directly from a 2nd place showing in CTF. 519 lost the first q3ctf qcon tourney to cloud 9, but I doubt that would have translated to 1v1 and tdm dominance for cloud 9 at that point in time.

KGB was at Qcon, yet did not participate in the 1v1 tournament where several of the players he WIPED the floor with in this tourney did very well (3rd, 5th, 10th) place. That was his opportunity to confirm things, and it didn't happen.

Maybe some other Qcon attendees can vouch for some 1v1 beatdowns he layed on top players in practice games. That could mean something, but so far that has not happened either.

1%

<< Comment #601 @ 15:01 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (pool-72-68-204-10.nycmny.east.verizon.net) - Reply to #598

Lan play is way different than online play. Superior aim will almost always dominate online play. While, on Lan, the aim field levels off some making more strategic play often the deciding factor. There is also the fact of comfort zones, many players are just so much more comfortable playing from their home.

It really doesn't matter though. 1v1 is completely different than 2v2 and other teamplay modes. Most of the people in this tournament are primarily 1v1 players in a mode that is not their most comfortable. The few exceptions were blt, hoens and chaoticz. Kgb never really faired well even in 1v1 online tournaments. He had a few good showings which can be expected from a player of his calibur but he has never been THE BEST DUELER.

<< Comment #602 @ 15:02 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

f0cus - Reply to #595

you do realize that 519 has a LOT more LAN time under his belt than kgb, right?

<< Comment #593 @ 12:13 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

Omni

Its not funny and its getting old.

<< Comment #599 @ 14:05 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

guts

LOL @ NA COMMUNITY!

<< Comment #609 @ 18:32 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

Dronar

Wow, took me three days to read all the comments, and man I really did laugh at some of them.
There really are too many people claiming to know stuff they know absolutely jack about! :)

Please put this thread in the Hall of Fame if there is such at ESR :D

<< Comment #613 @ 21:19 CST, 24 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (adsl-68-95-156-137.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)

it's amazing how many comments have been posting and props to everyone writing in support. I've seen KGB play in person many many times and believe me, he is no cheat. He's more obsessed and committed to the game than anyone I know. He's also an amazing leader and great with teamwork and anyone whose ever played with him will tell you the same thing.

Such a shame that nomadick had to act the way he did. Not only is it a huge embarrassment for FD and Razer, but to KGB and Walter as well.

Hopefully everything gets sorted out soon and apologies get made.

<< Comment #624 @ 05:35 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

jone - Reply to #613

" He's also an amazing leader "

Hitler reincarnated in him. Both act very alike.

<< Comment #619 @ 00:51 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

oreozz

Summary:

Decision likely not going to be overturned

519 an insanely obsessed knowitall that sees proof of cheats, regardless of agreement among several top americans that kgb doesn't cheat. Those demos are real hard proof compared to the last two euros caught. Yup.

QUAKELIVE'S IN OPEN BETA

<< Comment #620 @ 01:01 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

vedic - Reply to #619

QL is easier to cheat in. =/

<< Comment #621 @ 05:34 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

Anonymous (c-68-47-225-31.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)

all these people taking up for 2 people that have already been caught cheating in the past is really whats funny.

the logic in more than half these pro walter/kgb posts is flawed at best.

so someone can aim---they can still be cheating
so someone can move---they can still be cheating
so someone can(t) lan---they can still be cheating

so *you* have been accused to cheating and dont want to accuse anyone else of it---doesnt mean *they* arent cheating.

so someone else sees something suspicious and you dont--doesnt mean theres nothing going on

ive played nomadic online before--yes he was a jerk to me--but i still agree with him here

so none of you know me--doesnt mean you shouldnt open your own fucking eyes and look at things that are right in front of you instead of just taking up for people youre inter-friends with on a kneejerk reaction

so walter never lans--maybe he has legit reasons for it--doesnt mean he doesnt cheat

so kgb does lan--doesnt mean anything either way...especially in an online tourney

so walter "learned from his days of hacking and now plays better for it"--doesnt mean he doesnt still cheat to stay just a touch ahead of others he knows are better than he is because he needs inter-fame from his daddy never paying attention to him...who knows?

suspicious is as suspicious does, Forest.
if it looks too good to be true, chances are it is.

some of you have been watching too many frag highlight movies and forgot that people dont get those shots all in one game...it happens over months/years of gameplay 99.999% of the time

so it wasnt a full 6 votes...4 still voted against them..its not just nomadic that saw this suspicious gameplay stop taking out your nerdrage on him.

4%

<< Comment #625 @ 05:59 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

[mash] - Reply to #621

thanks for the most useless post so far.

<< Comment #626 @ 09:21 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

apoxic - Reply to #625

You scored a 2nd place!

.. and I'm going for gold! >:O

<< Comment #627 @ 09:29 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

.syL - Reply to #626

sif

<< Comment #629 @ 10:46 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

[mash] - Reply to #626

i wanna know which one the awarded is!!111!

<< Comment #649 @ 22:09 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

apoxic - Reply to #629

The Award Ceremony will take place on walters next LAN.

Edited by apoxic at 22:11 CST, 25 February 2009

<< Comment #668 @ 22:29 CST, 28 February 2009 >>

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By

Venim - Reply to #649

i see what you did there

<< Comment #630 @ 11:15 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

per1klez - Reply to #621

couldn't have said it better myself.

<< Comment #642 @ 18:53 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

luKrek - Reply to #630

Because you're 17.

24%

<< Comment #639 @ 18:07 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

vedic

Just got a response to my ticket to razer. They support nomadick.

A shame, I was really looking foward to getting a Salmosa. I guess a logitech mini will work just as well.

<< Comment #645 @ 19:30 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

Razer|Mjolnir - Reply to #639

You may have misunderstood the reply I sent back to you. Razer will support any ruling that comes to us from the Frag Dominant Quake 3 Cup staff, regardless of what that decision may be. The same reply I sent to you can be found posted above (comment #637).

<< Comment #647 @ 19:35 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

vedic - Reply to #645

Tell it to the BBB.

<< Comment #655 @ 03:25 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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By

Raist - Reply to #645

The problem here is that this whole debate gives the impression that it was Nomadic's decision primarily to eject the team with the way it was rushed to vote. Atleast I got this impression from Syn's statement above.

So saying that you guys support the FD staff in this regard makes people feel more like you are backing up nomadic and not the other FD staff's opinions.

Ofcourse I might be wrong without knowing some details that don't get posted here, but from my point of view the above gives that image so it does not matter atm.

<< Comment #644 @ 19:30 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

j3ffr3y - Reply to #639

wow.

want us to feel sorry for you? you're being the idiot in this situation here...

<< Comment #648 @ 19:37 CST, 25 February 2009 >>

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By

vedic - Reply to #644

Sorry for me what? I'm not the one getting anything out of this.

I just want justice to be served.

<< Comment #652 @ 01:13 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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By

kgb

Thanks to all the people that came through for us and posted. Walter and I extend our official thanks.
Thanks to everyone that emailed Razer and Frag Dominant.
Thanks to D|S-Syn for running a good tournament and sticking with us through this bullshit.
Thanks to whaz for being the only one to decide not to play the "new final" match.
Thanks to DjWheat for the epic shoutcasting.
Special Thanks to dkt. Thanks for the sandwich btw.
Thanks to Beef and xterm for reffing.
Thanks to everyone that says I cheat, you make me 3x times more infamous than I actually am.
Thanks to the sponsors for putting up the prizes.
Special thanks to clan519 for keeping me motivated all these years. You and the 5,000 other people that still think I cheat. It's posts like yours that make me happy I kept quaking all these years.
Future Thanks to anyone that punches Nomadic in the face.
Thanks to my hacking teammate walter, couldn't have won these prizes without you.
Most of all, thanks to the makers of New Castle, the only beer that doesn't taste like piss.

[01:38:06] <lonewulf> 1:37a �� (Razer|nomadic) [23:30] <lonewulf> can hear a pin drop in this room
[01:38:06] <lonewulf> � 1:37a �� (Razer|nomadic) [23:30] <lonewulf> heh
[01:38:06] <lonewulf> � 1:37a �� (Razer|nomadic) its always quietest before the storm
[01:38:06] <lonewulf> � 1:37a �� (lonewulf) ?
[01:38:06] <lonewulf> � 1:37a �� (Razer|nomadic) ;)
[01:38:06] <lonewulf> � 1:37a �� (lonewulf) Laughing Out Loud
[01:38:08] <lonewulf> � 1:37a �� (lonewulf) right
[01:38:10] <lonewulf> � 1:37a �� (lonewulf) :D
[01:38:12] <lonewulf> � 1:38a �� (lonewulf) crazy news
[01:38:15] <lonewulf> � 1:38a �� (Razer|nomadic) yes indeed
[01:39:09] <lonewulf> guess a storm is coming

Edited by kgb at 01:14 CST, 26 February 2009

12%

<< Comment #656 @ 05:44 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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By

jone - Reply to #652

fucking cheating alcoholic. gtfo of your grandparents basement and get a job waste of life.

<< Comment #658 @ 12:30 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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By

judge717 - Reply to #652

"Future Thanks to anyone that punches Nomadic in the face."

haha

<< Comment #659 @ 12:39 CST, 26 February 2009 >>

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By

vedic - Reply to #652

Congrats, mate... but that pretty much kills this thread. =/

<< Comment #667 @ 14:20 CST, 27 February 2009 >>

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By

mikenoid

667

<< Comment #697 @ 06:39 CDT, 29 May 2009 >>

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By

me

lolthread, lolwhine, loldemo

Don't know the NA scene but if kgb cheats he should change his bot asap...

He looks like a normal decent player constantly zooming with his low sens.

nomadic looks like a weak player with low IQ... He started to whine at 3 minuts... Pretty ridiculous.

IWH

<< Comment #698 @ 23:09 CDT, 29 August 2009 >>

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By

xou

Bump for glory

<< Comment #699 @ 23:31 CDT, 29 August 2009 >>

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By

Venim - Reply to #698

jesus

<< Comment #700 @ 00:50 CDT, 30 August 2009 >>

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By

apoxic - Reply to #698

This is why we can't have nice things.

<< Comment #701 @ 05:33 CDT, 20 June 2011 >>

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By

kgb

2 1/2 years later, still a lol fest

Edited by kgb at 05:33 CDT, 20 June 2011

<< Comment #702 @ 12:12 CDT, 21 June 2011 >>

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By

_woot_ - Reply to #701

I should have never taught you how to play kgb.

<< Comment #703 @ 01:44 CDT, 4 July 2011 >>

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By

_woot_

Any proof? As usual no proof.

<< Comment #704 @ 19:22 CDT, 5 July 2011 >>

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By

Ryan2015

i miss threads like these

<< Comment #705 @ 19:45 CDT, 5 July 2011 >>

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By

boenk

i miss quake 3 :/

<< Comment #706 @ 20:00 CDT, 5 July 2011 >>

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By

0x5f3759df

but does it have prediction?!?!?

<< Comment #707 @ 01:56 CDT, 6 April 2022 >>

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By

kgb

hi guise

<< Comment #710 @ 19:12 CDT, 8 April 2022 >>

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By

Anonymous (96.52.92.149)

it's actually shocking how many na players had/have really bad aim and were proud of it. you'll have some people who were accused of cheating in na and they can't even do what clawz does when rusty from playing too much apex + drunk.

<< Comment #708 @ 16:07 CDT, 8 April 2022 >>

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By

Jamerio :

*****UPDATE*****

I wrote the below (RESULTS) info before I found out some info which changed my mind or at least give him the benefit of the doubt.

https://liquipedia.net/arenafps/QuakeCon/2009...ampionship

Walter is listed here.

He lost 2-0 vs chance.
He lost 2-0 vs griffin.
He won 2-1 vs Vo0

That at least proves he exists.
Attended a LAN.
Has some talent which I was not aware due to it being nearly 15 years ago and its a subject which has been tarnished with all kind of mud.

If you're reading this walter, my bad, I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

I think other people should too and consider if he had mental health issues that can seriously fuck with someone fulfilling their potential and he deserves credit for coming out with it in such a harsh environment and potentially making him worse by accusing him of being something he is was not proven to be is unfair <3.

Results

Edited by Jamerio at 13:15 CDT, 9 April 2022

3%

<< Comment #709 @ 19:12 CDT, 8 April 2022 >>

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Anonymous (96.52.92.149) - Reply to #708

even random tf2 players beat czm once on aw lol na was just super low skill because 99.9% of the intelligent players were going to starcraft 2 and league of legends, only unemployed drug addicts and losers came to quake which is why rapha and dahang had been unchallenged. walter would be like 1900 elo if he played in europe.

<< Comment #714 @ 02:37 CDT, 10 April 2022 >>

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Anonymous (70.178.115.92) - Reply to #709

this is totally wrong. during the peak of ql elo, when rapha and evil were ~2600, i managed to get 1900 while practicing regularly for a month or so. walter was much better than me.

<< Comment #711 @ 06:33 CDT, 9 April 2022 >>

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By

melechesh ' - Reply to #708

iirc walter was a real dude, showed up to a couple of lans at some point, but stopped playing due to mental health / personal issues or something, according to people who knew him personally. he'd crash at their house sometimes during a period where he was homeless, and I'm fairly certain there are some pics in the depths of ESR of him playing at lans.

he was regarded as one of the most promising up and coming players in the NA scene, and also known for his great movement skillz

hope I'm not mis-remembering any of this NA quaker lore

Edited by melechesh at 07:24 CDT, 9 April 2022

4%

<< Comment #715 @ 02:37 CDT, 10 April 2022 >>

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Anonymous (70.178.115.92) - Reply to #711

you aren't, and nothing about the demo jamerio posted looks suspicious in any way. it does look like walter paused the game to snort a rail or something, because when he came back his play was way more active.

<< Comment #712 @ 11:45 CDT, 9 April 2022 >>

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lolograde ' - Reply to #708

Walter attended QCon 2009 and played fairly well considering it was his first big LAN and a lot of people were "interested" in his results. I think there was a lot of pressure on him. I can't find it (probably lost for ever), but walter did some interviews at QuakeCon 2009 after beating Vo0 and then losing to Chance. Some NA folks who were friends with walter (at various times) include rapha and carnage. Both knew him on fairly personal terms.

There was also a period of time when walter was playing Q3/QL non-stop. He was a troll sometimes, and probably dabbled with hacks (IMO), but I also think he had some pretty serious issues in his personal life. I've had more than a few interactions with him where it's clear he needed help, and it was depressing to watch someone self-destruct.

2%

<< Comment #716 @ 02:37 CDT, 10 April 2022 >>

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Anonymous (70.178.115.92) - Reply to #712

i've known walter for years. he has always been genuine and considerate toward me and the people we shared conversations with, and typically took criticism with good humor.

<< Comment #713 @ 13:11 CDT, 9 April 2022 >>

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Jamerio : - Reply to #712

Cheers for that, I have partially hidden my original post and updated my reply based on the prompts you give me.

If he came to lan, and managed to pip vo0 that shows he's real and has some talent.

So unless its proven otherwise then I'm happy to change my view of him where I at least keep a more open mind.

Someone one should tap him up for an interview?

Edited by Jamerio at 13:20 CDT, 9 April 2022

<< Comment #717 @ 03:03 CDT, 11 April 2022 >>

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Teen Queen ' - Reply to #713

Reflections with Thorin